The Green Knight w. Nicole Vaunt

Hello, you and welcome to You Are Good, a feelings podcast about movies. Today, we are talking about The Green Night. We are talking about it with Nicole Vaunt. I am your host for this episode, Alex Steed. I'm so glad that you're here. You Are Good, a feelings podcast about movies is exactly what it sounds like. We are not film critics. We are people who watch movies. We talk with each other about how the movie made us feel about who and how we are in the world. This conversation exemplifies what that's all about. We really get into that question with regard to The Green Night. We're not film critics. We are people who have feelings about movies. We talk about them here. The Green Night is a 2021 American fantasy adventure film directed, written, produced and edited by David Lowry. It's an adaptation of the 14th century. Poem Sir Gawin and The Green Night. It stars Dove Patel, Asgawin, who sets out on a journey to test his courage and face The Green Night. Nicole Vaunt is a professional nude model, has been published in Penthouse, Tashin and elsewhere. She's also a model and performer in the adult industry. I talked with Nicole back when we produced the Corn Telethon earlier this year. This is, of course, this event where Siri Dahl and I have a bunch of our friends come together in a stream and we try to raise a bunch of money for sex work, mutual aid organizations, and talk about legal threats to free speech. And I talked with Nicole as a part of that and I was just so engaged in everything that she had to say. Or I was like, you should definitely come on the show. We should talk about movies. And I was so glad that the timing worked out where one of the movies she suggested, The Green Night, lined up perfectly with the Christmas season. So, yeah, this movie very much is a Christmas movie. I'm glad this all worked out and this conversation is wonderful. I had a great time talking with Nicole about this movie. How are you doing? What's going on in your world? How are you feeling? When this episode comes out, it'll be Christmas Eve. You know, we have a boxing day ahead. New Year's Eve, of course, we'll have an episode that comes up before that. But Hanukkah has passed us, Solstice has passed. And, you know, this can be either a very joyful or very stressful or both time of the year for folks. So I've been really heartened to hear and I've said this for the past couple of episodes from y'all about what you're doing and how you're engaging in your community, organizing, you know, sort of taking action, etc. Like what you're doing as a means of, as we say here, staving off the dread and, you know, just being a participant in your community or in sort of the, you know, outside of our own heads. I really, I love hearing from y'all about what you're doing. I steadily hear it and I think it's very lovely. You know, it's how I engage in order to deal with all of this. It's nice to hear from you. I was going to read from an article that I came across in doing research for this other show. I'm putting together Los Angeles, DeMistified. Well, I don't have to read the whole thing. Maybe I'll read it in this month's bonus episode. But I was going to read this article in which an anonymous person got dressed in a Santa suit and they got their hands on a list of folks in their neighborhood who might need some help. They put cash and envelopes, you know, adjusted for inflation. It was like worth between $12 and $1500 an envelope. And, you know, of course, this isn't something everyone can do. This isn't something I can do. But they just went around the neighborhood and they knocked on doors and they said, you know, here you go, Merry Christmas. And they left. Didn't make a big thing of it. Did not want to be, you know, have attention paid in a larger way. It made the news because, you know, everybody who received an envelope, many of them called the Sheriff's Department to be like, I just want to make sure this money is not stolen. I just want to make sure that this is not a ruse. There were so many domestic bombings in the 70s that 1975 ended with, you know, I think a domestic body count of bombings in the United States with, I think, 60 plus killed. Maybe maybe more than that, you know, hundreds mained. There were so many bombings in the United States that one of the people who came upon the envelope that was waiting for them when they got home, opened it outside. So as to not maim their family in case it was a letter bomb. And so it, you know, it got attention. But I just thought the story was lovely. I like when people show up for each other. And of course, it does not have to be in the envelope filled with 12 to $1,500. That's like, you know, that's really a best case scenario sort of thing. But it can just be, you know, showing up in the ways that we're able to. And that's, you know, that's the reason for the season as it were. And that's what I like to carry throughout the year as much as we're able to do it, not just, you know, say it's for this time of year to bring that throughout the rest of it. Anyway, it's nice to hear from y'all with regard to all that. And don't forget that whatever you end up doing, however you end up engaging, maybe you just need a week of rest. Totally understandable. There's a lot going on out there. But whatever it is, don't forget that you, my friend, are good. We have a couple Rob Reiner episodes coming out. One about this is Spinal Tap that will come out next week. And I think alongside that will come out. Will be another Stand By Me episode. Look, we don't do repeat titles. This has been a rule of the show. But I was like so shaken up by the Rob Reiner news that I was like, I want to get some stuff down right now. I want to make sure we're talking about it. I want to get it out there. I want to express my gratitude in these ways. I rushed, I reached out to River Butcher and was like, hey, do you want to talk about this movie? I know you recommended it one time. I don't know why we didn't cover it. And we didn't cover it because we've already covered it on the show. And I totally forgot until I said something and someone was like, hey, didn't you cover that maybe already? So A, I forgot. B, I think it's OK. All things considered, because it's another opportunity to talk about Rob Reiner. And it'll be a bonus, not a bonus in our bonus feed. It'll be an extra episode for you all to listen to so you can listen to it. Or you don't have to. But a conversation with River is worth showing up for in my experience. Speaking of bonuses, you are good at feelings, podcasts, about movies as made possible with and by your support. Thanks to everyone who supports us on Patreon and Apple podcast subscriptions. We can only make the show because of your support. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. If you're looking for a way to give this holiday season an indie show that relies on no ads and rewards you with bonus episodes and extended cuts is a great way to do it. Support indie media if it's us or somebody else. It's just the time if you're able to help make a thing happen that is not entirely contingent on corporate funding. Please, you know, consider supporting these shows that you listen to that are made by real people. It means the world to us. I mean, you know, a couple dollars a month or whatever, a couple dollars, five dollars, whatever it ends up being, it might not feel like a lot or it might feel like a lot because I know that times are tough for a bunch of people, but it really helps make indie media possible and we need it now more than ever. So thanks to everyone who does it. Thanks to everyone who's thinking about doing it. Thanks to everyone who has done it before. We really appreciate it. We can't make these shows without you. And that goes for many of your favorite shows, I'm sure. Speaking of community support, our friends in Gaza and Palestine generally could use our help. Palestine Children's Relief Fund is a great place to start. If you're looking for ways to give materially, there's all sorts of ways to do it. But if you haven't looked for ways yet, that is a great place to start. Link in the show notes. All right, let's get medieval. Huh, let's do it. Let's go on a journey with Nicole Vaughn. Hello, Nicole Vaughn. Hello. How are you doing today? I'm doing so good. I'm so happy that you're here. We typically cover movies that like have found their way. If this were the if this were 100 years ago to cable and have been on cable a lot. Got it. Got it. Got it. We don't typically cover movies that have come out in recent memory. And I'm so happy to be talking about this one with you. That's so cool. What's like some of your favorite movies? Do you feel like our emblematic of ones you usually talk about? Oh, gosh. So usually it's like movies that have been up for at least 10 years to ensure that if someone was going to watch it, they've watched it already. Got it. OK. No, I love that. There has to be a certain amount of spoiler time allowed. Exactly. But then, you know, if you are covering as we do Christmas or holiday movies in one way or another, and I didn't even ask you what for Christmas movies, you just happen to supply one. Oh, no. Yeah. You just said some of my favorite ones. And yeah, this is technically a Christmas poem for sure. Yeah, it's about it. It's about the relationship between the Christian world and the old world. It's very it's we've got a lot of that stuff going on. That's definitely a component of it, for sure. But yeah, typically, I mean, like, you know, Mallrats is a big thing. Got it. Got it. Got it. So tell me who you are first. How do people know you? So I'm Nicole Vaughn. I have been a nude model for a really long time. You might recognize me from Tumblr, RIP. I'm also an adult industry performer. I do porn and I love what I get to do. I'm super lucky. You really have hit people in the heartstrings by bringing up Tumblr. It's a huge part of our audience, for sure. Spent the time there. I miss you, Tumblr. Oh, don't we all. And when I reached out and again, this was not a holiday prompt, you supplied some movie suggestions and at the top of your list was The Green Night and I'm curious about what made you recommend this one. So this movie is very interesting on a lot of different levels, but in a personal way, I actually disliked this movie the first time I saw it. And then on a second viewing really, really fell in love with it. And I I already think there's something interesting in that going from something that you didn't really enjoy to realizing how amazing something is, is also a very interesting process. So it's cool that we get to talk about a movie that had that kind of personal effect on me. I'm also a big fan of practical effects and, you know, beautiful costuming that was obviously done by someone who cares a lot about the physical thing they're creating. And The Green Night doesn't use a lot of digital effects, like the main villain, if you will, the actual Green Night. That's all real prosthetics. It's all very on set. Even the set was designed. It was even modeled physically so they could figure out the lighting before they actually brought it into making it into a physical space. So there's so many layers to it. And one of the things that I like about filmmaking, besides the story element, of course, is how many hands go into making it. It's the same reason why I love couture. There's so many people's hands that have physically made this one final thing. So it actually tells the story the person intended, but it also tells the story of all the people that worked on something. And I just think this is a great movie to show that. And it also feels like a movie that is very relevant to our current cultural state, because it really has to do about goodness and honor and also selfishness and legacy. So it's a very interesting and, honestly, very timely movie to talk about for being based on a poem that's 600 years old. It's worth noting that it's by David Lowry, whose movies I love so much. I love a ghost story. I loved his telling of Pete's Dragon, which was just truly fantastic. This is a man who puts Bonnie Prince Billy in his soundtrack. So if people are looking for what we're talking about, vibe wise, like this is, I love this filmmaker and I was excited about this coming out, just knowing that he was going to make it. And I think, honestly, I I didn't have the same experience where I did not like it, but I definitely did not know where it landed with me for a while. Yeah, I was so excited to talk about it because it gave me the opportunity to watch it again. And I was like, just glued to it from start to finish, kind of, you know, like a child listening to these mythic stories. So, OK, are you an Arthurian mythology person or was this? So I do love Arthurian legend. I actually some of my favorite books that I've read this past year have to do with Arthurian legends and there's something very enduringly appealing about it and about the time. And I love fantasy related things. So, you know, I'm always down to read something that has knights and swords and magic. Those are all things that I find very exciting. So I definitely am drawn to Arthurian legends and lore. And Lowry has said about making this movie that like he grew up. We're about the same age. He and I and like that he grew up loving Willow, which for me was a big one. I watched a bunch of interviews with him to to prep for this. And I have no idea what Willow is. Oh, my gosh. I have absolutely he kept reference in. And I was like, I don't know what this is. You are so in for a treat. It's one of these. I mean, it's like not this. It's very it's very different, but it's a Ron Howard directed. I think it might someone will immediately correct me on this, but like it was going to be one thing. And then I think that they couldn't license the thing it was going to be so they made it its own standalone world. And it's a classic, a classic like some in every man is put in a position where they have to go out and do the brave thing and become a brave person. And in this case, it's like, I think they come upon a baby in the water. So it's obviously got its own like biblical illusions. And they have to sort of get it to safety. And there's a near dual criminal type played by Val Kilmer. There's witches. There's it's wonderful. Truly. OK, that sounds interesting. I'm intrigued. Yeah, it's very of a time. But like I love that we're channeling some Willow here. Yeah. And we have so let's do our best. Please humor me while I try to recount what happens in this movie. Because this is also a thing that I really love that we talk a lot about on the show, which is like a basket of vignettes. Like this is a linear journey, but it's also just like told in a series of vignettes, which I really enjoy. Absolutely. And I feel like because of that, it lends itself to almost feeling like a series of parables. Like someone could be telling you this story in a serial kind of way. And there's an overarching lesson that's being taught, which this is very much a film that it's an adventure. It has so much in it. There's lore and legend and fights and witchcraft and come. Yeah, there's come like that. So I who who doesn't bring that up every time this movie is talked about. I mean, there's one of the best monologues I've heard in a long time. Is it her monologue? Is it the ladies monologue? Yes. It's so good. The monologue about Green is one of the reasons to watch this movie. It's I was sending people quotes from the monologue while watching. I literally I wrote down like one segment of it. That's my favorite part of it, because I think it's so beautiful. It's so beautifully written. Her delivery is really great. So good. And I love that it's such a small cast and that the actress plays both this lady of the manor and then also this peasant woman that the main character Gawin has a relationship with. I think that's such an interesting, but it's it's a sexual relationship each time. But there's a power dynamic shift and that's very interesting. And I think the actress must have had so much fun and enjoyed playing both sides of that coin. Oh, that's really fantastic. I can't wait to get to that part. And the one thing I do want to note just so we're not even there's no like great reveal here. Laurie says and I really loved this. This was like from one of those like anatomy of a scene, things in Vanity Fair, where he says and it was it's surprising to see a director be this humble. But he was like, I've since I've reconciled like my movies aren't going to like live on forever beyond me, like they're going to not be seen as well. And so the thing that is like really important to me in my day to day is like how I engage in the world and like what good I put into it, like and not like reserving that just for the art. And that's what this movie is about. Really truly. And I think he also says in that interview in that same segment about it's about how he comports himself in the day to day in the actual making of the movie to which I think is something that there's a lot of different directors with a lot of different styles. But I always love hearing much more when it feels like a director is coming from a humble but excited place and they want to collaborate with the people that they are working with. And it becomes, I think, a much better film and a better experience for the people who are actually creating it. So that was awesome to hear. That was so cool to hear because also. And I'm really glad that you were specific about that in particular because I think a lot of times with like, you know, especially in the later half of the 20th century, when we talk about like the great sort of the great directors of like Hollywood Second Golden Age or whatever, there were people who are making great art while being absolute fucking assholes about it. And like seemingly becoming bigger assholes as a result of like the success of those things. So it was really nice to see this, you know, sweet boy be like, I try to be nice in the things that I'm making. That's where it's important. And really, you're right. It's so that's also so much of what this movie is about and why I think that so many people should watch it because it is so much about can you prioritize honor and goodness to the people around you? Or are you going to be a spoiled privileged boy and let things go to hell? So our boy is a guy with this is a Christmas movie, everybody. He wakes up on Christmas. He goes to sleep on Christmas at the end a year later. Oh, well, we don't know if he goes to sleep, but we meet him there. He wakes up on Christmas. He's in a brothel. He's sort of like running through in this scene that almost feels like it's a sitcom. Like there's like a specific kind of energy. Pulling all his shoes on like. Yes, exactly. All the girls are like, hey. Absolutely. He is with his lover, Essel, who you mentioned was played by an actor who plays two roles in this movie. And he goes back to Camilla and his mother, who is Morgan Le Fay, who, as I understand it, it's a slight variant from the legend. Yeah, she was according to historical and, you know, apophrical. Apophrical, I don't know. Someone correct me on how I say that. Oh, they will. Someone correct me. That's your thing. They get to do it. Is that Morgan Le Fay was actually King Arthur's half sister and also at some time his lover. Gotcha. So it's very. I just read The Mist of Avalon. That was one of the books that I was referencing that I read and they do an incredible job kind of showing you the world at that time. And also what these relationships could have been like. And that is a component of it as well. His mother scolds him because he has been called to the court, but he is not. He was at the brothel. So again, it's Christmas Day. Court is being held. King Arthur and Guinevere don't look good. You know, the makeup choice in that is so interesting. I totally understand having the two of them be much older. You know, Arthur is basically dying. But the makeup really makes them look not their best, which is not what you would usually do in a heroic figure that you admire. Right. You would usually have them look radiant and beautiful. And both of them look tired. They don't look well. I like this piece where they are sort of representing Christendom as it were. And we have Morgan Lefe who, again, is like sort of witchy and of the earth and representing sort of like the pagan background elements. Like I do like that this is ultimately a tension in the movie that's like happening in the background. But it is not it's not the text of the movie. Like we don't leave it going like, you know, like this is one way or another. It's ultimately about where these things kind of at their origin begin to blend narratively. Yeah, I wouldn't say that you come away from this moment necessarily thinking about Christianity or paganism. It really is more underlying the tension maybe of the time. But it feels like it's not a huge battle or the battle has already been fought even. I mean, Arthur is old, like Christianity has triumphed in a lot of ways. So it doesn't feel like it's about the tension or the fight between the two. But it is very much part of the landscape in which the story takes place. And like sort of the Green Knight, like with regard to the imagery of like winter is very much like sort of part of the old narrative. So I love I do love this co-mingling where like all of these things are kind of existing together. And it's, you know, it's like it's especially nice to look at at a Christmas where we've really just rendered it down to two dimensions. So it's nice to see all these things sort of taking place together. And they're having they're having a dinner. Arthur, who's played by Sean Harris, who's only who I know has been in a hundred different things. But he's my only understanding of him ever on screen as he plays Ian Curtis in 24 hour party people. He plays Ian Curtis from Joy Division. And I love that role so much. I don't know either of those. They're great. But he's like sickly for at least 25 years. Oh, OK. It's part of his brand. Looking sick. Absolutely. Like in British and sick. So they are celebrating. They're having this Christmas feast. And Arthur invites Gawin up and is like, tell me a story. I don't know you yet. I would like to know you. Tell me a story. Because it says when is his nephew. Gawin is his nephew. In the understanding of this. Yeah. And Gawin reveals that he does not have a story to tell. Which, you know, sets us up for the rest of the establishment of our journey. When was the last time you didn't have a story to tell? Usually when people ask me questions like that, I feel that I have no story to tell whatsoever. I'm not a person yet. I'm not sure. What's really interesting is that I actually think that storytelling is one of my weakest characteristics. I'm actually not great at telling stories. And so being able to be a good storyteller is something that I deeply admire in other people, but do not see in myself ever. I often wind up telling people all the facts and trying to get them out as quickly as possible with very little finesse. And that does not lend itself often to an entertaining story. So I can usually talk about things that have happened to me or things that I've done. But being able to put it into a compelling story version that people are excited to listen to is beyond me, unfortunately, at this time. Well, Gawin doesn't. It's important to say that Gawin doesn't have a story not because he doesn't have the gift to get, though we don't even know if he has that because like really he's just kind of fumbling through a lot of this movie. But he doesn't have a story because he's a kid that lives at home with his mom. Like, you know, yeah, absolutely. And hangs at the brothel like he is. He does not. He is not yet. In it's especially the context is important to because like he's at the round table with all these storied, incredibly storied people, the storied king who people would lose within the realm of the legend love. And so everybody is great. And he is seeing himself in the context as a person who has no story to tell. And all while this is happening, Gawin's mother, who, by the way, to all of the folks who've listened to all of our bonus episodes about and just like that is played by the actress who plays SEMA, I should know her name and not just call her SEMA from in just like that. That's the worst. I think it's a Sarita Choudhury, which is we love her in In Just Like That, and now we love her in The Green Knight. She is performing some sort of magic evocation, some sort of ritual in the tower. And right as Gawin has said that he doesn't have a story to tell, the fruit of this ritual comes to the door, which is the Green Knight has been a vote, I believe is what's ultimately happening. He comes in. I would not have noticed this had I not watched that thing on Vanity Fair where he is carrying mistletoe above his head to say. It's Holly. Holly, thank you. Hey, thank you. Mistletoe will be a whole different scene. He doesn't want to make out, although I would make out with The Green Knight and I'm here for that. We do get some of it. If there's a whole version of The Green Knight, I put myself forward for this. I'm ready to bring some hot looking monsters. I just watched Frankenstein. We do get some kiss in later, which is nice. We don't get it from The Green Knight, unfortunately. No, sadly. He's holding Holly, which again, is significance of the sort of pig and winter god stuff. And he is holding Holly to let people know that he's coming in peace. And he essentially threw a fun little riddle that he announces to everyone during the Christmas dinner. He says, essentially, I'm going to read from. I don't ever read straight from Wikipedia, but for accuracy, I'm going to do this here. He states that any knight able to land a blow on him will win his green axe, but must travel to the green chapel the following Christmas and receive an equal blow in return, which is the phrasing I feel like is significant. Oh, it's all about the phrasing. The phrasing of everything that he says is up to interpretation. And it doesn't surprise me that this young buck who is eager to show himself in front of all of these people that he admires, who feels like he has no story, is ignoring the subtlety of what is being said here. He is not keyed into the subtlety. Yeah. And Arthur's like, who will do it? And Gowan is like, well, I guess this is my time to have a story. Arthur gives him Excalibur to borrow in the situation. Pretty significant. And I think to Gowan chagrin, maybe the knight puts up no fight. He just kneels down, bows his head so that it's easy to decapitate him. And Gowan does that. Gowan cuts his head off. Yeah. I mean, I think that Gowan would have he wanted it to be an impressive showing and having an enemy kneel in front of you was not the story that he wants. It wouldn't have been the fight that he wants to win. It's still technically a win, but it is not going to feel the same or hit the same in front of all of these story knights and king. Do you remember how Arthur looked at him after he cut the head off? Like, do you because I was wondering what Arthur was thinking? Like, he looked like he was at once like disappointed and afraid. It was like, oh, you know, Arthur was someone who he had a lot that he was thinking about. In general, there were a he came from a place where there was a lot of confluence happening. And he was probably thinking like, I would assume this man who has just talked about how much he loves his knights and how close he is and really how much of a family that he feels that he is in in his court. He's now, I would assume immediately thinking now my nephew is going to die and my sister is going to lose her son. And also being like, was he not taught well enough to to think about what he was doing? Did we fail somewhere in his upbringing that this is happening? So I don't remember the exact like look on his face, but I can imagine those thoughts going through his mind. It looked loaded. It looked like he was doing some processing and also like he I don't think he knows like we know as viewers who are looking at two different geographies that this task or the situation was brought on by his mother. It's a spell. Yeah, it's a spell and we don't know. I'm assuming that Arthur does not know that, but maybe he always thinks that his sister is up to something. No, I it's implied that he does not know. I think that Arthur would have been very upset if he had known that there was a spell happening and Arthur's words and speech are actually part of that spell. I think he would be very upset by that. Yeah, it seems like that's above that's like not the sort of agreement that he's into. And then so we get this is my love about what happens is right. Like he has a year. One year heads is so red. He has a year to prep. And he spends the year getting his painting done. This is so resonant. For the listener, Nicole has a crown ready to go for this. I brought a prop. Well, it's an appropriate time to use it. It's perfect. He has he spends the year getting his photo painted or his nose photo, his image painted, drinking with people who are celebrating him and his legend and not preparing for the task at hand. And as we're getting close, I mean, this essentially happens in a montage, but as we're getting closer, you can kind of tell that he is realizing that it's getting closer yet he's done nothing in order to prepare himself for what is ahead. He has ADHD. I mean, he's also just like a spoiled selfish, attractive boy. This is this is so much in a way about a mother being like, you need to grow up. So of course, he's just doing the things that he's always done. And now he has a story that he can tell people when he's drinking with them, of course. I love it. We'll get to it. But I love that at some point without spoilers, a major character is like, you had a year. You had a year to prepare for this. You're surrounded by the best knights in Europe. And you don't like learn some better fight techniques or like something. No. Ask your mom for some spells. I don't know. So he's not prepared. Gawin heads out on horseback in order to get to the Green Chapel. His mother gives him a enchanted girdle that is supposed to protect him from any time that he's wearing it. No harm will come on his way to the Green Chapel. He finds a boy played by what's like what's his actor's name? I've it's very is it very Keegan Keegan Keegan Keegan Keegan Keegan who is such an amazing actor. He's so like genuinely such an amazing actor in all of the stuff that he does is so compelling and interesting. He was perfect for this part. Honestly, my partner and I and this is getting a little bit ahead, but my partner and I constantly quote like torrent enough to each other. I'm not. I'm not. He's this is this is a wonderful character. I love when you meet a character out in the road where you're like, this is going to come back to me in some way. Because you don't necessarily I don't like that character. I don't like that boy. I don't like his attitude. I don't like anything that's happening in that scene. But it also is I don't like Gawin either. He meets this boy who is out on the battlefield looking basically looting dead soldiers. That's what that's what he's up to. Seems like probably a pretty good gig if there are people who are fighting all the time. She's like a pastime of that day. I can't remember if he actually says this or if it's implied that also his village was decimated or something like that. I think he says that his village was decimated in in Arthur himself, killed 900 people. Was that from this? I don't remember that part, but that character's backstory is unclear to me. And so the night is on the way to the Green Chapel. He asks for where to go and the boy suggests the right direction to go and asks for payment, essentially for his knowledge. Gawin gives him a coin. I don't know what the currency system is, you know, like, I don't know if it's a lot or a little. It's it's so much happening. I mean, a single silver coin, I assume at that time, would have been like a good amount. But it's weren't enough. But it's suggests he has more. You know what I mean? This is also part of what's interesting about that secondary character, that side character is that this is a character who is a thief, is an opportunist. If you had come across a rich night with no guards, with no one else with him, I don't think that any amount of generosity would have saved him. Yeah. Would have saved Gawin from from what happened. But it is also interesting that it's possible if he'd been more generous, he could have staved off what happens next. In which in what happens next is he gets ambushed by the boy and some fellow ne'erduels and they take the axe, the girdle and the horse. And so now Gawin's just. Does it take the girdle? Yes, because he gets it back later from the lady. Oh, OK. I was trying to remember. I was like, I am using third. You know, I'm using extra sources because I am so bad at catching details when watching movies. Yeah. And so now Gawin's just out in the world with nothing, which is not ideal. This is also where he is this where he sees the version of himself that is dead. Yes. Yes. And so I want to take a minute to because we obviously haven't shown any of these clips. And if anyone is just listening, they won't have a good idea yet. But the visuals in this movie are so incredible. The actual camera work, the cinematography, the locations, everything about it is so sumptuous and so beautiful. And the way that they play with camera angles to talk about time to illustrate a journey is so amazing. These locations, I believe it was shot in Ireland and parts of it look like Iceland, but I'm pretty sure it's all in Ireland are just so beautiful. And in this scene, there is a sequence where the camera pans all the way and I believe like nearly a 360 and it shows Gawin, if he doesn't fight, if he doesn't try to get out of the situation as a bound up skeleton. And it's showing you what he could easily be like if he gives up. And we have a couple of these scenes, which we'll touch on later on, where he sees his alternative fate or we see his alternative fate. And we I guess we're left to make assumptions about what his relationship with those nerds are. But I do love that. And to speak to how the movie thinks about all this stuff and a scene that we're just about to talk about, he asks a character if I think, like, is she real or is she a spirit or something along those lines? And she asks, what's the difference? And I think like so much of that is happening in the fabric of the movie itself, where it's like the reality and the myth are kind of one and the same. Absolutely. And I think that is a huge component of the movie, like you're saying, at large is this this osmosis, I guess, of myth and reality and fantasy and reality constantly coming in and going apart. And I think that's part of what was hard for me on my first watch and part of why I didn't love it is because it doesn't necessarily give you all the answers that you want. It does have a lot of metaphor and things like that. And it's not necessarily specifically telling you why you're seeing things or there's no text that says in you or would look like this in 10 years or when there's no arrows pointing at anything like that. Not that there there should be. I'm a little better at figuring out plot without those things. But it really allows the viewer so much space in this movie to think about what you're viewing. Yeah, and it favors multiple viewings, which I think is I think is great. Yes, it does favor multiple viewing. So he eventually gets out of the situation, not wanting to become the bound skeleton. And by nightfall, he comes upon an abandoned cottage, falls asleep in the bed. He's woken up by St. Winifred. Do we know her significance? Do we know who Winifred is elsewhere? St. Winifred, I'm trying to remember. I think that she was a virgin who was cut down at some point. And I believe that there's like a spring like came up like around her body or she's either related to like a spring or a spring of like holy water or I think a tree. Yeah. But she has some other like natural significance. But she's like she's also seen as a pious virgin martyr, I believe. She's kind of the only person who actually in her engagement with Gawin is like, here's how you are supposed to act. She's like, a knight will know not to touch me, which I think is like actually great, like he needs a little help in this department. But when he says, what will I get in return for helping you? She's scold him for even asking the question. And the help that she is asking for is her head was cut off and ultimately placed in this water and she needs her head back. And that's kind of when he realizes that she is ultimately a spirit who he is helping and he goes and he gets the head. And so he does do what a knight would do, right? Is that because a knight was supposed to be helpful, you were supposed to take care of people who were weaker or who were in need of help. That's part of the honor that supposedly he admires. And so he does do it. So there is he's not completely hopeless. I think it's important to show that he is capable of doing honorable knightly things so you don't completely dismiss him as a wastrel of a character. Well, this is also the beginning. This is like one of the fruits of this journey, right? Like this journey is ultimately had he taken the year, right? Like these are all things that like maybe he would have learned along the way. But instead we get it on his journey. And these are the things that he's learning in order to maybe if not become a good knight, at least become a good person. And this is the first time he is doing something like as we said, when he decapitates the great knight, he's doing it 100 percent from an image based rationale. And then he is celebrating on the image, right? For the year he's getting the portrait done. He's like drinking with people who are excited that he's there because he did this thing. But this is like the first time that he's actually doing, even though he has to be instructed, he's doing the chivalrous thing. Sometimes it takes a hot ghost scolding you to do the right thing. Story of my life, truly. We need more Ebenezer's to show up to billionaires. He does the right thing. And as a gift in response, his axe has been returned, which he had lost to the thieves earlier. I like how this part is just called interlude. We're he shows his friends with a fox now. Yes. He's just. I will say the fox, I think, is a discordant note, not as a character, because I actually like this this friendly fox as a character. It's the one very digital element in this movie that is a ode to analog in a lot of ways. Sure. Not that there aren't digital elements in other parts of the scene, but the fox is all digital in a way that I actually found took me out of the story a little bit. And so I wished that it could have been done slightly differently because, yeah, I think that that was like a discordant note in the larger world. Right. Because like there is some payoff for this fox later. So there is like a little bit of a setup, but I was like, this is a fascinating look. If this were a video game, we're going on like a side quest that doesn't ultimately get us to the end of the game. Yes, yes. We're hanging with the fox. We see some giants and there I don't know what's the ask. Are the giants supposed to help him get him where he's going? So I think again, on my first viewing, one of the other things that kind of bothered me. So I can tell you the things that bothered me. The giants were one of them because they don't really have a purpose except to illustrate the world that you're in, I think. And then the second thing that you ever see in the movie after like the intro scene, which I'm obsessed with where the crown comes down and which is like one. I could just watch that. It's so beautiful. It's beautiful. But then the first scene of the actual narrative is a time lapse that doesn't actually tell you anything about the story. Isn't relevant to any of the characters. Isn't even relevant to Camelot. It's just showing you what kind of world these characters exist in. And to me, I was like, there's no. What about those people? What are those people doing? Why are they even there? And the giants felt a little bit the similarly. I'm like, what are they supposed to show, except that things have become more fantastical and that there's huge figures that don't care about you? Yeah, I, you know, please, if you feel strongly about the giants one way or another, let us know what your feelings are, because I want to know. I'm not, I'm not anti giant to be clear to any giants out there. I'm not anti giant. Yeah, just curious about what we're doing. Just curious. I felt like both of those two scenes, both of those two things were were odd notes for me that I was like, did we need that? But again, I think that they are just meant to illustrate the world and give you more of a feeling of adventure. Yes, absolutely. And because, I mean, the rest of this movie really is like him and a bunch of dark rooms, like a lot of it could be a play, you know, because like they're very sort of fine. They're obviously beautifully designed rooms, etc. But like it's room, it's him in rooms. So seeing him out in the world is, I guess, is creating some scale. I think so. I think it's meant to show how small he ultimately is. There's an argument to be made about how there are these big creatures that are going past you who don't think about you, can't hear you, how irrelevant you truly are in the scale of the universe. I think there's an argument to be made that it's trying to show that. Yeah, absolutely. And this lands him with who is the man here? The other character is called Lady. Oh, it's the Lord. So the Lord of the Lady. Yeah, the Lord. Again, I almost feel like maybe the giants signify a separation from reality and you're going now into this fantastical metaphorical world. If you think of the whole thing like a game that his mom has designed, he's gone from the world that he knows. And now he's going into this world of video game of choices, right? Of a choose your own adventure. It has now become a different place, a different reality. Because this Lord, whoever he is, it's possible that Gawin would have known who this Lord was because in this time period, you probably knew who a lot of the Lords were in all of these different areas of England. And so the fact that he doesn't know this person has not heard this person. The Lord's not given a name. It again makes me feel like this was about a archetypal Lord and Lady rather than an actual real life Lord and Lady that he's interacting with. Right. And this is another situation like the Green Knight situation in which a riddle dictates how to deal with everything. And again, our boy does not hear the subtleties of this riddle. This guy is not getting out of this escape room without Gawin. Yeah, Gawin's still growing. He's still out in the field growing. Yes. The riddle ultimately is the Lord says that he'll exchange whatever he obtains while hunting for whatever Gawin finds in the castle. And what Gawin finds in the castle is an extraordinarily horny forward lady. So hot. So hot. She's so hot. She's so hot. So beautiful. She looks like clean and pressed and unattainable, almost, I would say. She looks like an unattainable, beautiful figure and a forbidden figure. Right. She's married to this Lord. Yeah, she was that she would be an influencer if it was today. What were you saying about when we first started talking? This character is ultimately played by Alicia Vickender, who plays both Essel, who is his love interest at the beginning of the movie and the lady in the situation. Like, what do you think is illustrated by way of like power dynamics in this? Well, the power dynamics here are flipped because she is in a position of more power than him. She is the lady of this manner of this area. Gawin, even though he is, you know, the nephew of Arthur, which comes with a lot of prestige and privilege and all of those things. He is now in this position where she has more control over the situation. And he ultimately, I would assume, in these moments, probably feels very insecure around her. Yes, he's aroused. She's really beautiful. She's being very forward. But there's a lot in his interactions with her where I feel like he's out of his depth. He looks crouched a lot of the time. He looks crouched. The amazing monologue that she has really feels like an admonishment. Like she's telling him, you know, actually, I wrote down part of it. I have to read some of it because it's so good. And she's like, please, we're off looking for red. Here comes green. Red is the color of lust, but green is what lust leaves behind. And this will become more relevant later. But for him to have this lust and be sleeping with this woman at home and feeling no real responsibility towards her or whatever might happen, he is in control and in the power there. But now he's in a position where not only is he being admonished by this really beautiful woman and she's being forward with him, but also there's now another devil's bargain with her husband. And the stakes are much higher if he is caught doing something with this woman. And this woman doesn't care. So ultimately, she doesn't really care about him or his safety. Just like Gowyn doesn't really care about this woman that he's seeing back at home. Yeah. And she ultimately in this like weird again, there are these strange thin veils between what is real and what is not. And she presents the girdle and claims that she made it, which I think is funny to me. It's like, how and why? How did she get it? Does it matter? It doesn't matter. The way that it's presented is he gives into the advance and exchange for it. But like he wants to give in to the advance. Like he seems it seems like there's not a lot holding him back within himself. No, definitely not. A woman comes to him at night when he's in bed, this beautiful woman, and wants to touch him and wants to give him a gift of I think that most people would struggle to say no to that. And the fact that he gives into that temptation is a further sign of how much he has to learn about being a knight. It's another illustration of of virtue that he is lacking. But I also kind of don't I hold him less accountable for this one in a way just because she is being so forward. But maybe I shouldn't. Maybe he should have had enough strength to not be able to let her jerk him off. Well, it's she jerks him off. And it's funny because like there's nothing more stupid, I think, than no, not November, right? Oh, true. But like that itself is rooted in like a specific kind of myth of both a misread of like chivalry and ultimate misogyny, where it's like people are essentially saying that like it is these temptresses that are like taking your power. And it's like, no, you just don't have any discipline like that. It's the idea of when fighters, you know, like I watch a lot UFC and stuff like that and fighters who don't jerk off before they do a fight or whatever, there's all these suspicions. I think athletes often do a lot of different kinds of athletes do the same sort of thing. And yeah, I don't think that you need to worry about that too much. You probably need to worry about having not learned other swordplay, real swordplay, not yet personal swordplay. But he, you know, I think like my take on the lesson, if I'm thinking about like what Lowry says that he wants this movie to ultimately be about is not even the like what is right or what is not right by way of the code of how you are with some, you know, with a lady or whatever. It is the fact that this is a doppelganger of his girlfriend, like who he has left behind and who as we understand him in this very moment, we know he's going to go back and she's going back. Well, what happened out there? He's like nothing. Like I think that that's what we're doing. Of course. And she basically is like, you're not she wait shit like she says. You gave in your bad night. You came so quick. Jeez, it is really quick action. So on his way out earlier on, the Lord found him a, I don't know, some sort of beast for eating on the way his way back home when he after he slays the or deals with the night situation. And he has since found the Fox says to Gawen, you know, here, I found this for you. Gawen doesn't want to take it. He's really befuddled by the entire situation. He knows he's transgressed. He knows that he probably is not in a good way in order to fight this Lord, let alone fight this night. He says he doesn't want anything to do with the exchange and the Lord again, lets the Fox go, which is going to become significant in a little bit when we explain what the Fox says, what does the Fox say? And, you know, again, the exchange is about what Gawen got out of the house. The Lord says, you know, are you sure that there isn't something from the house that you want to share with me? He's gotten not only a seemingly delightful job, but he he's also gotten a the girdle back. I think this I can't remember if he keeps the book. She also has shown him a book that she has written. I don't remember that part specifically. This doesn't strike. It's written in a heart shaped book. It doesn't strike me as a boy who reads. So keeping the book seems unlikely. Yeah, I think the book might have been left behind, but but the Lord is like, are you sure that there isn't something for me here? And the Lord takes a kiss back from him, which I have to say, like I would love to ask the director, I mean, I guess, because they had to do it this way, but it shows a lot of forbearance, I guess, on the part of the Lord to only take a kiss and not demand like a full satisfaction, which is what the agreement was, which is what he should have been owed, is that now Gowen has to give him an orgasm. Like that was my reading of it when I'm reading it. If you're saying that the green night you took his head and so now the green night's going to take your head. What you got was this thing that prevents you from dying and you had a sexual experience with this person. So now you should be giving me both of those things as well. So for the Lord to just take a kiss is an interesting outcome. I understand that they couldn't be like they couldn't force a hand job into this movie, obviously. That's not what this movie is about. It could have been, though. It could, but it could have been. I think there's something about where you do what you've promised, kind of. So it is a slightly interesting choice in my mind for the Lord to only accept a kiss and not get the full satisfaction that he was technically owed. Do we know that the Lord knows what happened or is he assuming what happened? My reading of it was that he knows everything that has happened. Sure. Also, it would be incredibly forward and, frankly, like very risky for her to have approached Gowen without her Lord's knowledge or permission. Yes, absolutely. But I think also this is a magical place. Again, we've left the land of reality when we get to their manner. This is all part of the spell, in my opinion. Like these people are part of the spell. Well, in her there's like a lady around with no eyes, usually who's someone who like somehow sees everything as well. Yeah. So I mean, the Lord knows what's happening in his house. He has the Ben A. Jezorat prototype in his house. So they are letting him know what's going on. And so on his way out, Gowen, again, incremental growth, if even. He learned how to retrieve a lady's head from the lake and to give 15 percent of whatever you got from someone else's house. I'd read that as 15 percent. If a hand job is 100 percent, what is a kiss? What is how much percentage is a kiss? Well, I would say, OK, here's what I was thinking. 50 percent is the girdle. 50 percent is the hand job. And then I somehow landed on a kiss as 15 percent of the whole thing. But I think my math still doesn't. But a kiss is great, you know, especially if you're a night out in the wilderness. No, I am I'm very pro kissing. I am just like if you're thinking about it in terms of reciprocity. Oh, sure. How many people a hand job is really well. Exactly. Like what do you give Joel out there on his horse? It's hard to tell. Yeah. It's so funny. I forgot that this is one of those movies where when a specific thing happens, you assume the movie's over and then there's another 25 minutes. Yes. And this is one of those. But it doesn't waste to those 20. Some movies you're like, we could have ended at that thing. This is not the case. As he leaves the Fox, his friend of the Fox, his CGI Fox friend is like, I love the Fox is like, get out of here. It's totally cool to leave. I mean, honestly, it's the voice of a friend, right? Yeah, because you don't see Gawin have any friends. No, no. He has people he drinks with, but it never feels like these are people who would truly care about him. They are hangers on more than anything. And the Fox is saying what I think most friends would say if they weren't knights and they're like, hey, you don't have to do this. You have other options. You have choices. You have free will. You do not have to do this. Yeah. And he's saying the Fox is also saying the thing that probably your brain is saying, which is like, why are you even doing this? Like, and he's been asked several times along the way where it's like he's been asked by his presumably his partner, who's basically like, isn't goodness enough? Like, why greatness? Which is like a pretty big question that we are all confronted with in some way. Lizzo said it very well. She literally one of her lyrics is like, why a good man got to be great. Like she says it in a much better way, but there's literally a line where she says that. And I'm like, yes, because that's that's so much what this movie is about. It's like, I mean, this movie could absolutely be related to a lot of what's happening, I think, with men and masculinity in general right now. And also what's happening in terms of capitalism and individualism about how everyone is always striving for bigger and better and greater and being a legend, right? And at the end of the day, what you really want, the what the people around you really want is for you to just be a good person, for you to be a kind person. I don't want the people that are close to me to be legends. I just want them to be good people who care about other people. And I think that that has a lot of relevancy in today's culture. And more people could internalize that. But with this character, I don't think there was any option for him except to continue to go forward. He doesn't have a story. He doesn't have a firm future. I think he has to go and complete this if nothing else for his pride. Yeah, I mean, like the whole thing about the masculinity crisis and all of that stuff and like the men's rights, activism, all that stuff, like it is pretending that it's not materialistic, meaning it's not about growth. Like none of it's about growth. It's all about like selling like a two thousand dollar Zoom workshop and then selling like this and selling that. It's like it's one hundred percent about capitalists. And unfortunately, growth is not a thing that you can sell pieces to. And so like anything that suggests that it's one thing, but it is actually selling another thing. It's just about selling shit. And like this is kind of about him learning the limits. And in all of those things that are being sold are like rooted in desire in one way or another, they're not rooted in sort of like in a specific kind of growth. So like this is about Gowen learning all of that stuff in real time and then seeing the limits of it when he's up against the ultimate challenge, which is where we find him now. He finds the Green Knight who seated in hibernation. The Green Knight, I think, comes to life in the winter solstice. Like that's kind of the significance here. Yeah. And on Christmas morning, he awakens. He finds Gowen there. He's like, now's the time. The night swings the axe. Gowen flinches. And Gowen's like, you had a year to get ready for this. Like, why are you? I love you talk shit. To be fair, I don't think that even a year would prepare you for your own death. Probably not. No. Maybe if you were taking mushrooms on the regular. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like I don't think that that was happening. If you signed up for my fifteen hundred dollar mushrooms course, one of the best things that people can ask themselves. And this is not related to this movie. This is a general thing, but who benefits? Yeah. Is someone selling you something? Then you should be suspicious of that a little bit, or at least know what it is that you're being sold. Yeah. And yeah. Who benefits from a situation? I think that is something that we could all think a little bit more about. I'll sometimes ask someone if they're saying something to me, but it's ultimately clearly there. It's for them. I'll just make who is this for? Yeah. Yeah. It's always a fun pivot point in a conversation. But yeah, I think who benefits is a really great way to filter stuff out. The night's like again, you had a year. It got when Niels to take the blow again. And then this time scrambles, gets out of the way, apologizes, and he leaves, gets on his horse and leaves. And then we see what this has earned him. Which is he becomes the king. People are stoked that he's he's come back. He abandons his partner. Takes her baby. Takes her baby. Marys, a princess who is the same. Again, you're seeing women repeated is also the ghost. Oh, right on. I did not notice. That's great. Yeah. The actress plays the same like she comes back and now she's the princess. And then you see he's like on his throne with his foreign princess and their child. Yeah, he's not he's not beloved loses his loses his kid in battle, becomes a king that everyone hates. The castle is under attack. The family is under attack. He removes the girdle that was where we should all remember. Ultimately, is protecting him from any harm. Well, it goes so like we see all and it's actually quite a long sequence. Like you genuinely feel like this is the end. Like you're like, oh, wow, he decided to chicken out. And that is like the ending. This is actually quite a long sequence where you see what he does when he goes back. And then time just like rewinds and brings you back to that to that moment on Christmas Day, where he's talking to the Green Knight. Right. It is significant that I know that when he removes the girdle in this flash forward, then flashes back as his head his head falls off. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Which is like one of his endings, one of his choose your adventures. But then, yes, exactly to your point, we very sort of like elegantly go back. This is like such a beautiful and wonderful montage that conveys. I mean, it's it's obviously a last temptation of Christ kind of. Yes. Of montage, right? It's showing you what you could have if you decided not to be self sacrificing. Yeah. Like I love the last temptation, Christ. It's like one thing you could do is we could just all say you were crucified and you can walk out and live your life and it's going to be fine. And the other is to be actually crucified. It's kind of great. Yeah. It's funny that people are upset about that movie, that movie rules. And so at the end, it's revealed this was to our point, a vision of what could have happened. So he finally removes the girdle, kneels and accepts that he is going to die and says that he is ready, which the the night rewards by not cutting off his head. Yeah. And one of the things that I love about this movie and the the Green Knight character in particular is the way he sounds. The sound like when you first see him, when you go back and he first enters Camelot and the round table, he creaks like an old tree, like getting off of his horse. Every motion you have this creaking, his voice is very resonant and interesting. And the same way when he wakes up, again, it's that creaking. It makes him feel even more like a natural character that he's just like so a part of the natural world and then like wakes up with all these natural sounds. I really loved the attention to sound specifically for that character. Yeah, no, absolutely. And like, I think like it's funny that I messed up the Holly and Missalto thing because like the Holly King is known as is known as sort of like pagan mythology as like the essentially like the Winter King. And I know that the Green Knight like exists already sort of like within the Arthurian legends, but there's so much that's going on with regard to like the way that this film paints him. We're like to your point, like he just feels very like of the earth. Like he doesn't feel he doesn't feel human, right? Like he feels he kind of like looks like swamp thing in a way. Like he just is so kind of remarkable looking. And there's a terror in the same way that trees can terrify you. But then also when there is a warmth, there's like such a warmth that it like puts you at ease. And this is essentially about like Gawin realizing that he ultimately has to accept his own fate in order to have the bravery that he needs to get the warmth of the Green Knight, which is quite lovely. Well, I think it's a lot about, I mean, obviously there's the self-sacrifice, but I was reading some more things about what people had said. And it's like an encounter with death and you can face the end with goodness and honor in your heart. I think is what we could all strive for when we ultimately meet death, that we know that we have been good people who have done the best to our abilities. And not that we're trying to be perfect, but that we're trying to have a sense of integrity and honor when you meet death. And I think that is really what you're showing is that he finally is having a sense of integrity and doing the things that he said that he was going to do and honoring his agreements, which you see throughout the film is something that he does not do. Yeah, absolutely. And why do you I mean, to that point, why you were saying earlier that it felt like, you know, this movie is as relevant as it was 600 years ago, it's seemingly especially more in the, you know, by the day. Why is that something that you feel? Well, I think what we've so much of the American dream and individualism is about making your mark, making yourself as big and impressive as possible, leaving behind a legacy is something that people often talk about. And I wouldn't say I'm immune from those things. I do want to leave behind something that is impactful. But ultimately, the best kind of impact that you can have is to have a positive influence on the people around you, because our circle of influence is actually so much smaller than we than we want it to be. And what matters is you trying to be as kind and considerate and good to the people in your immediate circle and the people that you meet. And that is actually going to have a much better effect over a longer amount of time. If more people are trying to operate on that principle, rather than this principle of hoarding as much resources and fame and cloud and personal legend as you can. Look, here's what I'm hearing you say. Oh, dear. That this this class of billionaires and con artists that are in charge right now could probably benefit from taking taking some of the lessons of this movie. Tyre. Yes, that is what I'm saying. I think that we could all take a lesson from it because part of the reason why there are billionaires is because we admire people who can make that much money, even though they aren't really making it through their own physical acts. When you get to that amount of money, there's a lot going on. It's not really about you and your personal acts. You haven't really pulled yourself up by your billion bootstraps or whatever. But all of those kinds of things show that success is really due to a larger community. There's very, very, very few instances of people succeeding completely on their own. I would venture to say there's basically no one that succeeds on their own, but I'm sure that someone has done so. Yeah. Well, the scale of exploitation that has to happen in order to maintain billionaire dome is really counter to the narrative of this film. It truly is. It truly is. So I think that there's a lot to be said to just trying to be a good man instead of trying to be a great man. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that that is a beautiful takeaway. And I think that that's why, you know, outside of just this taking place on Christmas and being bookended by Christmas, it feels kind of like a perfect Christmas movie where ultimately the lesson is about some sort of like aspirational goodness or greatness. No, excuse me, aspirational goodness in a way that, you know, a lot of things that just kind of take the imagery of imagery of Christmas and like the nostalgic feelings as it were, aren't ultimately about like being a better person. They're about physically maiming two men that break into your house, trying to steal your toys. Is that a home alone reference? It sure is. And I'll take that too. I love those movies. Don't get me wrong. We'll have just covered one by the time we do this one. You know, what he was doing in that movie was creative problem solving. And we love that. We absolutely do. Is there anything about the movie that you haven't said that you would like an opportunity to say? Oh, there are two things that I do want to say about this movie that when I was doing more research were so exciting to me. Please. So the first of it is and you will probably love this since you like the directors other films, the metal plaques that are on King Arthur's robes, which were something that as a costume and design nerd, I noticed immediately the wardrobe and the crowns and everything that King Arthur is wearing is just so amazing. So those metal plaques, each one of them details something either related to Arthurian legend or related to the directors other movies. Oh, I love that. So one of the plaques is actually a ghost. That's amazing. Yeah. So if you really look closely, you can get a lot of little Easter eggs just from those plaques. And I wish the director had talked about who actually made the plaques because I have started to do a lot of silversmithing and metalwork. And I am very curious what the actual process was for them making it and how he collaborated with the whoever collaborated with the actual clothing designer, the costume designer, rather, who made the piece. I just thought that he's so cool to talk about because that piece is so inspiring and so beautiful. Absolutely. And then the other thing that I thought was really cool is that the scene where the Green Knight comes in when you first see him and the round table and all of that, the director showed how much was physically present in the set. But then he said something that I thought was so cool. They literally handpainted in extras and the scene to make it wider and bigger and more impressive. And I just love that he literally hired someone to hand paint people and more of the set to fill in this space. I just, again, it's another analog thing that is really effective and really beautiful and fits with the movie. Matt painting is a thing that used to happen and still does in this movie, at least. It's called it's called Matt painting. Yeah, it's like you essentially paint the extra parts of the scene on glass that then you line it and the camera angle so that it captures the physical stuff and then has this extended reality to it. And he used an example on one of the videos I watched. They did that in Star Wars to make that many stormtroopers. Right. Yes, exactly. So yeah, there's a lot of they would do that for like, if they shot something up here in Tahaunga and sort of North Los Angeles to look like it was like the wilderness and you have some woods here, but then they would paint like an additional sort of like woods on top of it and woods to the side. So it looked like expansive. Yeah, that was Matt painting. That's so cool. I had no idea what the technical term was. I don't know anything about that. So thank you for telling me that Matt painting. It's so cool. It's cool as hell. So cool. And again, another reference that the director had to all of these older and eighties movies that he loved and admired. I really love that he not only references them personally, but then technically is also like, I want these techniques and there's so much you can learn from looking at older works in every creative field. And it's really cool to see him be able to be so specific. Like this was a technique they used in Star Wars and I'm using it in this movie about a 600 year old King Arthur poem. I love that. Well, we asked this question at the end of every episode and you are welcome to interpret it. It's meant to be a Rorschach test, let me say. OK. You're welcome to interpret it in any way that you want and then give a little rationale for your answer. We know that in an alternative future, Gawin is a father. Who in your view is the daddy of the Green Knight and why? Hmm. I mean, I think the Green Knight is glad he ultimately in this movie because at the end, he still has compassion for this wayward son of his. And I remember asking my dad a couple of years ago, I was like, what does being a man mean to you? Which I advocate everyone to ask their parents or family members questions like that because that's a hell of a question. When they're gone, you don't get to ask them anything about their lives or their thoughts anymore. And so I remember I asked him that and he said something that actually kind of surprised me because he's often been kind of like a. He's a sensitive guy, but sometimes they'll say things that are callous or whatever. He's a boomer. He says lots of questionable things sometimes, but he said being empathetic. And I know for a fact that being a dad is the thing that has given his life the most joy and purpose. And I think that to be a good father, it requires empathy and compassion. And ultimately the Green Knight by extending that to Gawin and not just cutting his life short because that was the agreement. And that's everything that you deserve this. Instead being like, no, you actually deserve a chance to learn from your mistakes, not just pay for them. What a beautiful answer for someone who was not told that they were getting asked the question. Thank you. Really nailed it. Really nailed it. Fantastic. But I'm going to say Winifred again. This is a thing that I wish I got more of in a dad situation, you know, because sometimes people answer it's a daddy thing. This is like a reaffirmative reason, you know, who Dev Patel wins. I think top top bottom. I mean, he can get it. Yeah, absolutely. Dev Patel can get it. Oh, there's there's what good dads do. There's what bad dads do. But I'm going to go with Winifred in the good dad category. Winifred said what needed to be done. Like it wasn't a riddle. It wasn't like I need you to do this and then this will happen or whatever. And when he crossed the line by being like, what do I get in return? She's like, stop it. Like, yeah, I love that. It was like a good to the point, you know, 90s sitcom dad way to be. And I really appreciate that from our headless friend Winifred. I do appreciate that she is clear and direct. And ultimately, that's what good communication is. We don't really communicate best in riddles. It's so funny. So like you are you are in the porn world and I am in and of and around it. Sort of my way of social scene and friend group and business. And I think it's like a scary thing for a lot of people because of their relationship with sex, largely, and because of their ideas about who and what it is. But it's the world in which clear and concise communication and expectations around communication has never been clearer, for lack of a better word, than anywhere else. Like in my business life and my job, all this other stuff is like, there's no place where clear communication has been more valued than in this world. And it's one of the few industries in which women are well compensated for the work and who, you know, in almost every other job, especially service oriented jobs, if you're working in a clothing store or you're working in a restaurant, like you're going to run across men who are sexualizing you against your will, who are inappropriate with you. And one of the things I love about porn sets is that things are very clear. There's often an intimacy coordinator of some kind there, someone that you can talk to who isn't going to disregard the things that you say, who's going to have your back. And a lot of normal work environments don't have those kinds of things and they don't have clear guidelines for how you can physically interact with someone. Yeah. Be like Winnifred and communicate like a porn star. Yeah. What we've learned today is that daddies should be clear in their communication and direct and also empathetic and compassionate. So if you are a dad or a daddy out there doing those things, I applaud you. Yep. And kisses are 15 percent of a hand job. Yes. Oh, yes. Someone do the math. Yeah. Someone do that math for us. Some horny kinky math major. I need you to figure out how many kisses equal a hand job. And it's like a good kiss, but not like an amazing kiss. It's like a good one, but not mind blowing. So that it's just the tension that led to that kiss. I mean, it's hard to replicate. Yeah. How do you want people to find you on the Internet? So I have the same handle on all social media and on OnlyFans. I would love if you would come and join me. It is Vanttastic, V-A-U-N-T-A-S-T-I-C on Instagram, on Twitter, on OnlyFans. If you want to know more about what I think on books, I have a good reads that you can look up. I've actually never plugged that, but I do love reading books. I read all the time. I love talking about people with books, recommending them to people. And I like to write reviews about the things that I enjoy. So you could also check that out if you are a nerd who likes to read fantasy and wants to know what I like. And you're with a bunch of readers here. I also, as I said earlier, when you talked about Tumblr, in this family of shows that we have of all the people who are related in like these different shows, we all met on Tumblr in one way or another. So it's very funny. It's nice to have a like kind here, if you know what I mean. It is. And I would love to know, like, what the name of your Tumblr was, but mine was there's no place like your mouth. Mine was Final Girl Dom. Oh, that's so good. So good. All right, everybody, thanks so much for being here. Thanks to Miranda Zickler for producing and editing this episode. Speaking of Miranda, there is a great two part series over on American Hysteria about department store Santas. Sarah's a guest in those episodes. And that's an area of fascination for me. I was talking about this earlier in the introduction about this research I'm doing for the show Los Angeles. It puts me in the archives, which is one of my favorite places to be. I know it's Chelsea Weber Smith's favorite place to be. It's a cursed place to feel committed to, but it's one of our favorite places. And we were texting back and forth about Santa news stories the other day. I love Chelsea, I love American Hysteria, I love Miranda. And those episodes are worth checking out as far as like alternative holiday media goes. We have a bonus episode coming out soon about Jack Frost. I don't like the movie Jack Frost, but we'll talk about things that are worth liking in there. We'll talk about all that and more with a B.J. and Harmony Colangelo. Thanks to Nicole Vaughn for being here. Tumblr's own Nicole Vaughn. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It was a lovely conversation. Love that we got to talk about, you know, communication and sex work communities as part of our Christmas episode. That is my favorite. Thanks to Fresh Lesh for providing the beats to make our episode sounds so sweet. Appreciate you, Lesh. Thanks to y'all for being here. Thanks for supporting us on Patreon and Apple Podcast subscriptions. But get out there, friends. You know, I know it's a stressful time of year. Get out there or rest or whatever you need to do in order to engage thoughtfully and meaningfully in order to be good. This episode turned out about being good. I never even made the connection between what we talk about in this episode and what we talk about in the show generally, but that really worked out well, didn't it? I appreciate y'all. I really do. Don't forget that you, my friend, are good. We'll talk with y'all soon.