How to Master Sales Psychology and Building Creatrhub with Olubukola Sogbolu (Part 1)

Working in that kind of environment, you know, learn to never give up. You learn that all you need to do is pivot. You don't fail because failure is just a step to success. So instead of, you know, crying and being like, oh, I feel that this didn't work out. You know, learn from it. Failure is a lesson. What is this failure trying to teach me? Before we dive back into today's conversation, I want to share something important. This episode includes a paid partnership with BetterHelp, a platform designed to make starting therapy easier. I know from my own journey as a leader and entrepreneur that life can sometimes feel overwhelming. There are seasons where stress, uncertainty, and pressure build up, and you need a safe space to process it all. That's where therapy comes in. Therapy isn't only for people facing clinical challenges. It's a space to reflect, grow, and find better ways to manage stress, relationships, and personal goals. It takes courage to seek help, but it's also one of the smartest investments you can make in your mental and emotional well-being. That's why I'm proud to highlight BetterHelp. With BetterHelp, you simply fill out a short questionnaire and get matched with a credentialed therapist in just a couple of days. If the first match doesn't feel like the right fit, you can easily switch therapies at no extra cost until you find someone who truly connects with you. Inside the platform, you'll also find tools like journaling and group sessions on different topics that can support your growth. And with over 7,000 reviews and a 4.5 trust pilot rating, BetterHelp is a platform you can rely on. So, if you feel like you'd benefit from talking to a therapist, visit BetterHelp.com forward slash King Dames. that's betterhelp.com forward slash Kingdames to get 10% off your first month of therapy. Once again, this is a paid partnership with BetterHelp and I encourage you to take that first step if you've been thinking about it. Sometimes the best investment you can make is in yourself. We are live ladies and gentlemen. You all once again welcome to the Kingdames podcast in Diary the CFO. And today I've got a very, very, very, I'll add two berries. That is a quadruple DIP on the show today. Fighting out of Dublin Island by way of Vegas, Nigeria. Welcome, Olubukola Hello everyone, I'm good. Hi, what kind of intro was that? That was amazing. Okay, wait till you hear the proper introduction that I, what I say, curated for you. So, ladies and gentlemen, today's guest is a builder of influence in the real world, not just online. She's worked inside high-performance sales environments, including fintech giants, Revolute. She has exceeded targets in competitive markets. She has built pipelines, handled objections, and translated complex value into simple decisions. Then she made a bold pivot. She stepped into the creator economy and now builds high-converting content for brands. Powered by sales psychology, customer empathy, and geek. understanding of buyer behavior. This is not a conversation about going viral. This is a conversation about positioning, persuasion, resilience, and relevance. From Lagos to Dublin, from economics to enterprise, cold cold short world view. How are you once again? Seriously? How many are you going to give me AI? So like any lies told, I don't think I told any lies. right but for the purpose of this conversation i think olubukola is quite a mouthful for me so permit me to to refer to you as bookie am i safe referring to you as bookie because sure everyone calls me bookie amazing because that is the pet name for anybody with that name you know if you're from nigeria you know guys that are outside of nigeria that are non-nigerians uh this is bookie she's not a book Keeper, by the way, she's not a bookworm, just Buki. So let's talk about your identity and your origin story. Take us back to the early version of you, like who were you before the titles, the carrier pivots, and all of the adventure. Thank you, Leiai. Buki was a dreamer. I've always been a dreamer. Far back as when I was in primary school, I and the house helped them. We had someone that was helping us with their chores. We went to the market. We got some air accessories and I would take it to school the next day and I would sell it to my friends. And to be honest, I didn't even know why they were buying from me. They could easily go and get it themselves. But I just did that. And to me, I didn't even know it was business. I really didn't know what it was. I just knew it was something I wanted to do. So I've always wanted to sell. I've always been, should I say, good at it. It's just been a passion of mine. And early days, I used to grow up watching my elder sister. She's late now. But to be honest, I can't tell my story without a show below. I used to, you know, watch her. And I saw, thank you, I saw everything she did. And she was such a business person. Like she would go to Dubai. She would sell Brazilian air. She would go to Ghana. She would sell droiries. So I was like, if she's doing this, I can do this too, right? so she was like my role model growing up because I used to watch her I saw the way she was able to manage her time because you know she had sickle cell just like me I also have sickle cell so she was really able to manage her time and I was like okay this is really a good idea instead of you know working nine to five and then my employees asking me oh why didn't you come today what was wrong because I had these issues in school whereby teachers would be asking me why didn't I come and whereby I had to receive exams and even sometimes write exams in the sick bay. So I just wanted to avoid all that bad culture. And I just wanted to, you know, make something for myself I could be proud of. And seeing someone actually do it in front of me with such close proximity, I was like, okay, yes, I'm going to do this. Wow. It is quite touching what you actually pointed at. That is that pain of having to leave as a sickle cell carrier. A lot of people can never relate to that pain. And it's quite an expose. And I'd like for you to like maybe expand on that a little bit. Myself, would I say I'm a partial carrier, right? So you have the AA, you have the AS, you have the SS. And even being a partial carrier, like life can be really tough. I'll just do a little bit of biology and a little bit of science. Please educate our audience. Sickle cell anemia is a blood disease. We're actually in the same category with cancer patients. so the hematology team takes care of both of us. That should tell you how bad it is for the people listening. So it basically affects the cells, your red blood cells and you have sickle-shaped cells that are not formed properly and therefore they can flow to the heart vessels properly. And so you get something called a crisis which is when you have pain due to the blood cells actually stop. the red blood cells it can be very very painful kind of like being stabbed to death or kind of like a gunshot wound I know someone would say oh you've never been stabbed you've never been shot but it is it is that painful like just think of the worst thing you've gone through in life and just multiply it by 10 that's how it feels um you know it affects you know people in the black culture i think it affects a little bit of asian culture as well i'm not 100 sure i'm not a medical professional um so basically it happens when as and as form uh so when your parents made let's say as father as mother you get the sickle cell i have to use my hands to explain it because it's biology so the a from here the s from here that's as then there's another s from here there's another s from here that would be ass so if you're unlucky or should i say lucky i don't know you get the ss together so that's how you get the disease and it's lifelong is genetically given and yeah that's all psicocell is about really yeah so it can really be a very painful process you know i've had times growing up where i actually wanted to just you know i had those um you know those thoughts to just you know end it all um but i'm grateful to god that i'm here and i remember i used to tell my elder sister i would be like oh you're so lucky you are a you know and she'll be like oh what if i go outside now and a car eats me or what if i get cancer tomorrow so she kind of helped me to see that it doesn't really matter if i'm a sss a a what matters is what i do with my time on heart and i took that lesson to heart since then all i've ever wanted to do is take my time on it precious because no one is promised tomorrow i'm one of those few people that i'm actually not afraid of that i'm more scared of what i didn't achieve before i die so i'm one of those that i'm like okay let's make all the mistakes now on that deathbed let me be saying i thought i've done it all as opposed to on the deathbed let me be saying oh i wish i did this i wish i did that so i'm actually one of those um So that's it, basically. I'll just say, guys, drop in the comments your inspiration in life. Who or where do you get your inspiration from? I actually love to read that on this video, on this podcast, anywhere you're watching from, Spotify, YouTube. Okay, so we're speaking about the impact of a secret cell, Anemia, right? and I spoke about the fact that I'm a partial carrier but you are full-on carrier. A lot of people do not show empathy towards people with this condition so I wanted you to, would I say, show some light, shed some light on it, expand a little bit on it like the pains, what does it feel like, right? Having to achieve the same goals, the same targets, right? As, you know, regular people and being one foot behind because of even this condition. Thank you, AI. Sickle cell and cancer are blood-related diseases and we're actually in the same hematology you know blood department That just to give you a grasp of the severity of the illness basically how sickle cell is formed is when you have a patient or a mother that carries the AS genotype and a fella that carries the AS genotype and they get one S from here you get one S from here and the sickle cell is formed and these are sickly red blood cells that have difficulties flowing through your heart and giving you your body in general the necessary oxygen you need um that's in turn these two crisis pain whereby um it feels like you've been shot or you've been stabbed and a lot of people will be like oh have you actually been shot or stabbed no i haven't but just picture the worst pain you've ever experienced in life and multiply it by 10 and that is exactly how sickle cell crisis pain is and it can last for like a day to months depending on your pain management strategy and the medication or blood transfusion or any process you might have done to relieve that crisis so sickle cell patients we end up being very very tired even on regular days that we don't have the crisis because our blood cells are doing more work than a regular individual because the red blood cells are stuck so they need to float past the oxygen so an average individual might you know get tired maybe after 12 hours of work a sickle cell patient can wake up and the person is already tired or after just two hours of work the person is already physically tired and there's really nothing you can do about it though there's like a few drugs out there and a few transmissions out there. But those are not like the permanent solutions. So we just start to, you know, grow to accept it, you know, grow to live through it and see what we can achieve while facing such challenges. Well, thank you very much for expanding on that. You know, like sometimes it just feels like your body's shutting down and you kind of help yourself. But how have you been able to cope in terms of like, would I say, a support system because you always need people around you that would understand what you're going through and give you the necessary support to navigate life. I know you would definitely appreciate that support system and like what's the advice you have for people out there living with the condition and how can they actually navigate life and still achieve great stuff like yourself thank you um support system growing up it was my parents my siblings because um a lot of people don't know this but when you actually are in a crisis in a physical cell crisis you're literally kind of like how do i explain it you can't move you can't literally carry your body like if it's a lead crisis you can't walk if it's a hand crisis you can carry your hands you become kind of paralyzed you are paralyzed and you're in pain so in such scenarios you literally can't do anything for yourself you can't even take yourself to the hospital because i grew up in africa nigeria there's nothing like ambulance so you can't die 9-1-1 whatever the ambulance system is get someone to come grab you no so you have to rely on your support system several times my dad has backed me on his back to the hospital. My sisters have carried me physically. Like, you know, even friends when I was in school, when I was in university, like, had to literally help me because I can't help myself. And then of recent, it's been my husband. My husband is my strong support sister. I don't know what I would do without him. And I kind of tested him before we got married. Side note. Yes, sure. Because whenever I date a guy and I happen to have a crisis, I always test them if they're going to show up at the hospital. Before him, none of them ever showed up. In fact, the ones that did show up were the ones that were just friends. They knew that, okay, this is just friendship. Those are the ones that used to come and visit me. So I tested my husband when we were dating and he actually showed up. So this is for fellow sickle cell people. Like, test your partner. don't just think oh when i marry him everything is soft gotta test the guy is he gonna show up you know and actually did show up and i knew that okay this is the one and also he actually experienced it physically with me there was a day was supposed to go to church and i had a crisis and he was there you know to experience it with me and to you know give me my medication and water and take care of me. So he saw all that before he proposed and he saw all that before, you know, we agreed to a union. So a strong support system matters. And I know even though he saw all that, living in it is still very difficult. We still face challenges as a couple. He still second guesses. And I still second guess because we didn't know it was going to be this challenging in the marriage. There are some areas that, you know, can be really tricky when you're living with sickle cell patient and there was one of one important fear he had was that because he didn't want a child and his reason was that if I have a sickle cell crisis where is he going to keep the baby I thank God since I actually gave her to my daughter I haven't had one but that was really why we delayed as much as we could in you know having a baby because initially it was like oh one year into marriage he wants to enjoy his wife One year it went by, it was like, no, two years. And later he opened up to me and he was like, it's just scared because if I have a crisis and it needs to take me to the hospital, where is the child going to go? You know, I helped him to understand that, you know, God is our source at the end of the day. God will sort it out, you know, because I really wanted to be a mom. I love being a mom. Oh yeah, I have a baby now, a two-year-old. So to answer your question regarding fellow sickle cell, how to get support and, you know, how they can navigate and, you know, achieve their goals, I would say just never give up. There was a quote from Walt Disney I used to write on my journal growing up. And that quote says, all our dreams can come true if you have the courage to pursue them. I wrote this quote, it sounds like primary school. I've never let that quote go. And another thing is this Bible passage that says all things are possible. There's nothing impossible with God. Yes, people might look at me and be like, oh, this girl has sickle cell. But I'm not seeing myself like that. I'm seeing myself as God's child. That's how I identify myself first. I am God's child. That's the most important thing. Sickle cell and all that is just for me to share my story so that people can learn. Well, I don't see myself as that. I see myself first as God's child. And you know, with God, all things are possible. Nothing is impossible for him. So that's just my advice for you out there. I love that. I love that. My favorite Bible verses, Philippians chapter 4 verse 13. I can do all things through Christ that strengthens me. And of course, you know, it keeps pushing me. And it's quite interesting to see the similarities, the connecting dots, right? And, you know, you enter the traditional corporate environment. Like, what did that season of your life teach you? about how people really make decisions. All right. So before I actually, you know, started working with Revolute Business, I had, you know, doubled here and there since I left university. Reason being, the way the whole system works in Nigeria, you don't get a job immediately, you graduate. Like, you have to also. So I doubled into a couple of things. I would sell makeup. I was a face model. I was a makeup artist. you know so many things and then in between I'll also be a sales rep for this medical team this medical company this forex company you know I was just dabbling I was just dabbling like because I didn't take one penny for my parents after school because that was what I told myself I wasn't going to take one penny um so I was just hustling you know just dabbling and um getting into revolute business and navigating that first of all i honestly didn't think i was qualified to be an account executive uh my husband was the one that gave me excuse my friend the boss because he was like um i just apply i'll help you with your cv my friend will help you um prep for interview you know just try just try it and i was like okay fine let me try it let me apply and I was like I don't have experience and I was like you've been selling all your life I'm gonna excuse me I'm gonna set up your CV in a way that it will show everything you've been doing I was like okay and you know it just kind of happened and I remember that interview because I had interviews with other companies and I remember that particular interview like before the end of the interview I kind of knew that me and my manager connected I have no hatred for my manager like I love him to today Danny if you're watching so I kind of knew it was gonna go well you love your husband more and you know getting the job yes so getting the job and actually doing the job are two different things you know yes I was good yes I had trained because I did some courses prior to the interview so I knew about Upsport CRM I knew about Salesforce but the actual day to day and the market I was selling in was completely different all my life I was selling in the Nigerian African market here I am in Ireland Europe I didn't grow up here so obviously I have no connections my network is zero and I'm supposed to be bringing outbounds you know I'm supposed to be closing deals I have a target like how is the math gonna happen I'm competing with people that all they need is one party and they get five companies all they need is one friend's house and they get 20 companies those are the kind of people that are in my you know unit with me and it was really really challenging coupled with my health and all that it was really really challenging I'm not gonna lie and um I had to reevaluate myself and ask the question is this really what I want to continue doing honestly I didn't even want to job in the first place I've always been an entrepreneur right but I wanted to try something different from my husband because we're trying to buy a house we're trying to buy a car so I was like let me input let me not be the useless wife right let me add something to this let me add value so luckily for us we're able to save up we able to deposit for the house we able to get the car we wanted you know So I was like okay those are the goals I needed this job for right Can I go back to entrepreneurship now? So, you know, we had that discussion and I was like, you know, this is not my passion. You know, I need to go to my true passion, which is, you know, solving problems, being an entrepreneur, interacting, meeting people, you know, I just love connecting with the world. So yeah, he released me and he was like, okay, fine. And that was how we got here. So you talk about connecting with the world, but at what point did you realize that you had that innate ability to persuade people to communicate? Because in other words, for you to sell two things, you need to be able to communicate effectively. And of course, you need to have that persuasive power. So at what point did you realize that, you know, just like the Guinness adverts, there's a drop of weakness in every man, you know, and it is in you? Honestly, like, I have a lot of imposter syndrome, to be honest. Like, I doubt myself every day, even to today. So it's not like every day I wake up in that boss mode, in that let's connect mode. like i'm a choleric melancholy so that means i'm introvert half extrovert so it depends sometimes i have to really push myself because sometimes i'm not in the mood i just want to recharge my battery you know even with my husband sometimes i just go to the bath have a bath and close the door for like one hour because i need to recharge my social battery so it's not like you know it's automatic for me it's kind of like okay when bookie is in the mood she's fun she loves to connect you know you get the best but you know when she's not in the mood you need to understand that she wants to recharge you know even electric cars need to recharge right tesla and co so even her need to recharge so it's not it doesn't come for me as easy as it looks or sounds that's just one I want everyone to understand it's also a skill you know I had to watch videos on YouTube about you know your tonality you know how to understand sales I had to understand handling objections you know so many things so I also had to train myself even though naturally I had that skill set I still had to train myself you know to navigate that world I love where you talk about the training right because for a person like myself right switching to entrepreneurship i learned the hard way that you need to learn sales and discovered that sales is a psychology right so and communication a lot of people don't realize that there are four communication skills there are four language skills that is speaking listening reading and writing right you need to master all four skills in order to be a master of communication. Well, a lot of people place premium on just the speaking aspect, right? Now, when you master these four language skills, it helps you to be able to refine your messaging, right? The way you refine the messaging for speaking is different from the way you refine your messaging for writing, right? But at some point, you get to learn the hard knock lessons, right? And one very big hard knock is if you've ever tried cold outreaches, right? It teaches you how to handle rejection, objections, to test your identity, to test your emotional control. For me, I've had to crash out so many times. You do test your patience. You know, I've had situations whereby, just give me this gist. I've had situations whereby I was having a call and these calls are recorded, right? And the guy was like, oh, I'm pinning your location. I'm going to come find you. Your accent is not from UK. So why are you calling me? You're a scammer. This, this, that, that. And I've had situations where I was like, oh my God, like, I just want to break something. Like, I just want to throw something away. Like, I just want to be done. So I've had those situations and I'm like stomping something on the floor in my work office upstairs. And then my husband is downstairs walking and he runs up the stairs and he's like, what happened? What happened? And I'm like, these people have come again. They are back. They just want to, you know, provocate me. So, you know, I've had those kind of people and then I've had the people that obviously their objections are within reason. and then those kind of people, you know, I further explain and, you know, help them understand where I'm coming from. So I was talking about high pressure environments, right? And how it helps you to, let's say, develop your emotional intelligence, right? So how did that help you? Like working under high pressure, you have so many deliverables. you have different stakeholders dragging you in different directions, right? How did you manage and how has it helped you improve as a person, right, that is on work and off work? So you think fast, you think on your feet. I've had situations where I, and naturally I'm the kind of person that I pivot easily and I know when to pivot. So if something is not working, let's say, for example, a cold outreach pitch is not working, you know, you quickly change it. You don't wait till next month or two months time to make that change. You know, you think on your feet, you pivot, you ask the right questions, you reach out to the right people. You know, you just want to be a sponge in that situation. You want to soak it all in. You want to learn from everywhere you can. Anyway, that was how I was. Like, I would go to my fellow colleagues on LinkedIn, you know, I'll set calendar invites, you know, and then I'll ask them questions. you know i had colleagues in you know france poland and i would you know i'll be chatting with them this is after work around like 5 p.m just because i want to know their strategies i want to learn more i want to see how i can better apply myself to the job you know just just think on your feet as i said and that attitude that behavior working in such environment because i'm gonna be very honest with you it was a very like how i put it like jungle environments like dog if you don't kill you don't eat exactly so working in that kind of environment you know you learn to never give up you learn that all you need to do is pivot you don't fail because failure is just a step to success so instead of um you know crying and be like oh i feel that this this didn't work helped, you know, learn from it. Failures are lessons. What is this failure trying to teach me? And I take that lesson onto the next one and the next one, it gets better. You know, speaking of learning from your failures, that helps you to keep refining your messaging, right? So, like, how did your customers, like, respond to your language, your tone? and like how did you build trust over time with refining your messaging? Honestly, I'll just say, you know, I was myself. You know, clearly I can't change. So I was just 100% myself. So even when I have meetings with stakeholders, colleagues and customers, clients, you know, if there's something I don't understand, I'll tell them, oh, I need to get back to you on this. you know i was very honest you know and they promote that culture in revolute business as well they'll tell you be honest the calls are being recorded don't lie to get your sales you know so you have no choice but to be honest though i'm naturally honest but the culture also helps you to be honest so um you know so when you go in such meetings you know if you don't have the answer or I'll get back to you. You know, I try and get back to them as soon as possible. There are times where, you know, I reach out to my manager and I'll be like, oh, Danny, we need to work on this email together now. And then it's jumping on a call. We're trying to refine the message together, you know, or maybe some clients sent me because there are some no-nonsense clients. There are some clients that are very difficult and they'll be like, this is rubbish. Your standard is this. Your standard is that. Funny enough, it's not even me they're talking to, they're directing it to the business. But, you know, I have to find a way to refine my reply in a way that it's not personal and addresses their concerns at the same time. You know, empathy, in my opinion, is still the most important skill in business. Do you agree with that? 100%. 100%. okay so working in a fintech environment it's actually super if you like say ultra fast-paced so like what did that teach you you know in terms of balancing speed precision responsibility and accountability it taught me a whole lot um it taught me to be a dogged person so if you're actually my friend or my family member you refer to me as stubborn i hear that all the time book is stubborn book is rude and that is because i am target and that is because i don't give up and i see my opinion so those are the things working in that culture has helped me because prior to that culture you know in nigeria there's something called respect your elders you know and i remember this particular situation with my manager he he kind of called me out in a team meeting and he was like brookie i expected you to do this you didn't do it blah blah blah and you know he left and the meeting was over and then he you know slacked me it was like one-on-one slack and he was like i was actually expecting you to defend yourself i was like oh in my culture we don't do that and he was like explain I was like in the Nigerian culture you know when someone is talking you keep quiet you respect your elders you know you don't talk back and he was like going forward I expect you to talk back I expect you to defend yourself and I took that lesson and I took it going forward I was like okay nobody gonna tell me this and that I gonna defend myself I going to speak up I going to you know talk back if i have to because to be honest that that what you meant to do if you check out the kids that grew up in ireland uk they don't even know anything like do not talk back they don't know anything like that so imagine the different cultural variations so that was something i really took from that. I'm going to apply this wherever I am in life. Culture shock is a very, very big thing. For me, also having a similar background as yours, moving from Nigeria to the UK, I met with a lot of culture shocks. I'd like to know what you would probably say are your top two, top three culture shock elements that is moving from a Nigerian environment to are the Irish environment. The number one that affects everybody is the food. That's like the first shock. Like, what am I eating? I don't understand. The food is bland. The food is bland. There is no pepper. There is no seasoning. That was my first number one, like, what's going on here? And the second one, obviously, was, you know, communication. The way they communicate over here, even in the morning, they don't say good morning they say hi you know hello that's their greeting in africa you say good morning you even knew that one said that good morning you know so outsiders are like this it's so major culture shock it's less can i can i think of what um all right now how about you what culture shock have you experienced yeah i'll tell you the food was number one right because damn yeah at first you know coming to the uk i came to kpmg and kpmg had this culture of like having an office canteen and i'm like okay part of the perks was that you have food in the canteen subsidized food and i'm like yeah i'm like this this this food is trash and then there was a day that one of the partners, right, was having a meeting with the new hires and then he was asking me, like, why is it that you don't come into the office? And I was straight up honest. I'm like, the food is trash. Yeah, that's actually very true. Like, yeah, British food is actually bland, right? But a session that, yeah, social interactions. Yeah. Social interactions was a very, very... Do you know the funniest thing? Like... Like... Okay. Yeah. They know that you cannot serve Buki a meal without adding extra pepper and extra sauce, like extra salt. So when they are serving everybody and they come in, when they get to my room, they will pack the salt, pack the pepper in St. James's in Ireland because they know Buki is not going to eat that food. Goodness gracious. So I think one of my early neighbors in London was laughing at me. He says, okay, anytime you're going to work, make sure to take your chili pepper and ask your salt with you where you're going to work so that you can enjoy the food. But meh, I don't like the food. That's the only goal. Social interactions, social interactions, major, major one for me, right? Like you get on the train, you just say greeting to a person and they act like you're invisible. back it's it's it's that level of being rude for me like it is very very shocking for me you get into elevators with certain people and you say hi you say a good morning hello and they just flat out ignored you wow it's it's crazy but i think i guess that's like a london thing because when i went to like other parts of england like going up north the people are warmer so it like London that that's that there's a culture of being rude and ignoring people which I did not like I think it's a city thing most cities most cities they just want you to come and also everybody has the mindset you know they are just looking for their daily also deliberate so I think it's a city thing because even Dublin city I think that happens as well yeah so the people in the suburb but they are much much friendly much much warmer yeah i agree with that yeah i've been to dublin once dublin wasn't as bad as london anyways i think london takes the cup in terms of now um going back to your fintech uh experience like working in both financial services sector I think it would have taught you quite a lot about understanding human financial behavior, right? And human financial behavior influences other, would I say, social behavior. But how has that actually, would I say, inspired the way that you create content and you refine your messaging? That's a very good one. I would say the way the financial and social mix is in terms of looking at consumer behavior and you know trying to put yourself in the buyer's shoes I always tell my husband this you are not selling to yourself you're selling to your customers because you'll be like oh I don't like it this way I don't like this one and I'll be like it's not for you it's not for you you're not the target market, it's not for you. You need to focus on the target market, focus on the consumer, focus on their behavior. And, you know, that's just what I took from that is understanding that it goes into the psychology of the consumer. What are they thinking? What are their pain points? You know, what are they struggling with? Just try and put yourself in their shoes. Figure out how's their day-to-day life. Okay, let's say your target market is a nurse in the hospital. Okay, how is her day-to-day like? Obviously, she has to wake up as early as, you know, depending on the shift. 5 a.m., get a train, then starts her shift. You know, you need to figure out those things to understand her behavior and how she'll respond. I was about to get into the creator of our meet-life section. Riverside AI caught this aspect. so let us talk about creator hub you've been talking about pain points you talked about how you don't sell a product that you want to sell you sell a product that the buyer wants to buy the customer wants to buy so what was that original problem the original pain point that you saw in the creator economy that made you say creator hub needs to exist so it was a personal experience i've been doing ujc for two years now um i've been a user generated content creator for two years for those that don't know what the term ujc means and basically you just hear out you just see you just see what is ujc i need to explain a lot of people don't know this term it means when you create relatable videos to advertise brand products and i worked with several brands a couple of brands you know america uk island you know and i was seeing the same problem it was a personal pain point the problem was number one the market was so disorganized it was decentralized you know there wasn't a process there was no system as a business if you're looking for a ujc creator you need to hire someone or an agent that would start searching maybe on instagram or twitter or you know on any socials and start looking for hc creators and then when you finally get the person you know you reach out through an email or through dm and then there's so much back and forth in admin and negotiation same thing you know if it's maybe you posted a job online you posted it on twitter you're looking for agency creators people put their portfolio and their email you have to start shuffling through thousands and thousands of portfolios and emails till you find the right person so it takes a lot of manpower it takes a lot of admin and what a lot of businesses don't realize is a lot of cost is going into that a lot of costs and you know even personally as a creator i had to start paying someone it was that bad to start replying my emails to brands and to start outbound for brands because there was no structure there was no process there wasn't a platform where i can say this is where i get all things you just done no i have to use canva create portfolio i have to use another app create invoice i have to use another app calendar management i have to use another app you know it was a mess and you know i was just nagging to my husband one day i was just complaining but why is it so bad like i do enjoy creating these videos i do enjoy this content but the process is just not giving and my husband you know being my husband because i used to tell him you're the one percent and he was like let's do something about it i wasn't even looking for a solution to be honest i was just nagging that day i was just expressing my thoughts you know how we women will be like oh behave I just want to nag to you I don't want you to look for a solution you know that was what I was doing and he was like let's do something about it this is a pinpoint to you and not only me other creators because I took so many UGC courses and I realized that we are all facing the same thing so I had this telegram group I joined we're like over 100 all complaining about the same thing there was another course i paid for one lady in america all complaining about the same thing so it was really bad structural problem and i was just complaining about it and my husband was like let's do something about it let's create a web app an application a software a tool you know where you can have a centralized whereby from discovery to delivery, the beginning to the end of a UGC project lifecycle can be in all one place. So we created the only app so far, as the only app in the all-world America, UK, Europe that does that.