NFL Draft Combine Takeaways | Portal Penalties + Proposed Rule Changes | College Football

Welcome back to the Cover 3 Podcast with your hosts Chip Patterson, Tom Fernelli, Danny Cannell and Bud Elliott. It's your call for the best college football coverage from National Signing Day to the National Championship and everything in between. CBS Sports presents the Cover 3 Podcast. Hello and welcome to the Cover 3 Podcast here on CBSSports.com. He's Bud Elliott. That's Danny Cannell. I'm Tom Fridelli. And some of you may be confused because you're not hearing the voice that you typically hear at the top of the show. Things sound a little different. Things look a little different. Well, it turns out that Iran is not the only place having a bit of a regime change this weekend. That's right. Chip Patterson is out at cover three for today. He'll be back Wednesday. Don't worry. He's back in jail again. He ran afoul of his parole violations. He's he's getting slapped on the wrist, but he'll be OK. he'll be back wednesday but you know it's glad to be here with you too how was your guys weekend what did you do it was good man play a little golf uh nice you know uh liam hit uh hit two bombs uh so i was like bro look at that nice so i am in uh i'm on week three weekend three of seven weekends in a row on the road for youth sports. So I was in a Bud's neck of the woods. I was in Orlando at the convention center this past weekend, the world center or the, uh, the, uh, orange County one. So I was at the Hyatt Regency, which is pretty nice. So you can walk. And so she can walk more importantly, cause she has to be there an hour before I have to get there. So yeah, it's a, it's that time of year. I almost didn't make the show this morning. I bit off a little bit more run that I could chew. I went for a walk with my daughter to the beach and I was like, you know what? It's so pretty out. I'm just going to run home. So I let her drive home and I ran home. I used to be able to make it in 30 minutes pretty easily. Took about 45 for your boy today. Got to get whipped into shape. So I'm a little bit close. Surprised you're not at the Seminole pro member. Did you not get on the list? Oh, yeah. I'm dying to get into that one day. Have you played it? The resume is not quite there. That might be the most prestigious member pro around, where you get these. The members are, like, off the charts, and then the pros are off the charts. It is awesome. Have you played it? I have. Yeah, I've played it. I have a buddy who's a member, and the place is really – it's the history, like, Ben Hogan, pictures on the range, like, where he used to sit. like it's it's really cool the problem there if you guys don't know is each member at least from what i understand can only take one guest like you can't go member plus two or three so even if your buddy is really tight with somebody who's at seminal which i have one yeah like they have to get another another member you know so the nice thing though about being alongside the ocean is you could see how far shane lowry would hit his t-shot into it when he's coming down the stretch Um, some, not, not a ton of like the combine dominated the headlines this weekend as college players that we've watched for these last few years are preparing to get to the NFL drafts. And we will discuss that later, but some news from late last week that maybe we didn't get to on the Thursday show and kind of happened over the weekend. Uh, the NCAA has recommended stiff penalties for college football playoff teams that are trying to circumvent the transfer portal. Basically, they're trying to curb the tampering that happens where the player's not in the portal, yet somehow he's transferring to another school already. So some of these penalties are here. I'll read from the story at CBSSports.com, written by Robbie Callant, who's taken a break from buyout life to write about rule changes. The first year of the NCAA's new single transfer portal window for football brought plenty of drama, blah, blah, blah. With spring practice is set to begin soon, the NCAA is trying to get ahead of the teams, potentially circumventing the portal by bringing in additional players to their roster. With the removal of the spring transfer portal window, there is concern from the NCAA that schools could try to add athletes who did not put their name in the portal by simply having them transfer schools as any student would, withdrawing from their current school and then enrolling at the blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada. Here's the gist. If the measure is approved, which is the NCAA Division I Football Subdivision Oversight Committee issued three recommended changes to the blah, blah, blahs for the punishments that would come. If the measure is approved, Once an enrolled student athlete who was not active in the transfer portal at the time of transfer participates in any athletic related activity at the next school, the following actions would occur. One, the head coach would be prohibited from all football recruiting and on field coaching and administrative duties team meetings through the sixth contest of the season. So that's the first five games. Coach can't even step foot in the building unless he's like, I don't know, picking up his mail. Two, the school would be fined 20 percent of its football budget. I don't know how they would really wage budgets because I'm pretty sure all the budgets are different, but maybe they just mean the $20 million cap. And then the school would be required to reduce the number of roster spots by five for the next season, regardless of the head coach's employment status at the school. So my question to you two, and Danny, I'll go to you first. Do you like these potential punishments? Do you think they're too strict? And do you think they could even be enforced? That is the million dollar question. I like the punishments. Like, I don't want to see, you know, we have rules in place, but they're really suggestions from what we've seen. Everybody kind of pushes the envelope, goes past that line all the time. We hear coaches consistently complaining about tampering about whatever issues that are out there. If you want to have rules that are respected, you should have harsh penalties. I do like this. It doesn't penalize the kid, you know, the player, which I think is a very strategic angle to take because we've seen the players representation sue and win and not be really held responsible, but we really haven't seen a coach sue for a punishment levied against them. So I think that is a smart way to do it. I mean, and if you do want to curtail a lot of this movement, this is the way to do it like now do i believe we'll ever see this enacted i'm a little skeptical but i mean could you imagine if there's a coach at the power four level who's suspended for six games that would be unprecedented and i do think it would scare the bejesus out of everybody into possibly you know looking at out of transfer you know out of the portal window transfers i think it would definitely um and it also doesn't stipulate does the head coach have to be the one. I mean, it's just his program. So like you talk about coaches making sure their assistants don't try to circumvent the rules. So yeah, I like the harsh penalties because I do want to see more structure. I'm tired of hearing everybody complain about it. So I would love to see it enacted, but I don't have very much confidence that they do. So it, it feels like collusive anti-competitive behavior to me. Like you're, you're trying to say, okay, we can't stop you student from like unenrolling and enrolling somewhere because of course remember you're not an employee and the rev share is representative only of your nil value that's what we're trying to say here so we don't have to pay ltd and long-term medical and all that kind of stuff right but it's still basically really suppressing your market value by making your potential, not employers, but people who you do business with, not want to hire you if you do this. When I saw this come out, we see the coaches committee, whatever they call this, coaches committee. I forget, they rename these things all the time. It's basically like coaches, administrators, et cetera. They come out with stuff all the time. And it usually gets shot down by, I believe, the D1 council, which has to vote on it, right? And so my thought was the D1 council will probably either shoot this down or alter it to where the penalty is really nerfed, to where, okay, it's like schools take fine. We'll take a very slight slap on the wrist here, to where it's not really something that would be challenged in court. or they would do it knowing that they will lose in court so that they can say, hey, we tried and it didn't work. Give us this antitrust exemption. And I think that's been the NCAA's play for a long while now, right? Because the feedback they got from Congress, at least based on what we heard, was like, stop coming to us to fix your problems when you really haven't tried to fix them yourself. None of these solutions that you have suggested are like on this planet of reality. Okay. To be frank here, like these are clearly not going to work. This is probably still in that category. It's a little bit like less central to it. So I think maybe they're testing the waters on, you know, how much they can say, hey, we tried this and it didn't work, you know, help us Congress. Now they're not going to get the antitrust exemption, at least not some broad scope one, because just from hearing different people in the business talk about this, the Democrats don't want to give them this, right, unless they get collective bargaining, which means they get a whole lot more people into a new labor union, which is a non-starter for Republicans, right? Like Republicans do not want these guys to be employees because they would be unionized, et cetera. This is just understanding politics. So I'll be interested to see, like, do they reduce the penalties and then pass some, like, very watered-down version of this? or do they just say, yeah, cool, we're going to go with it knowing that we're going to get slapped in court? I think it's probably the latter, maybe both. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if this does come to fruition what the actual rules look like, because I do agree with you. I think that they would get softened quite a bit because they are pretty harsh penalties right out the gate, which are meant to, you know, kind of scare them away from doing it. But I don't see it holding up in court. And I also, I do wonder, like, given the NCAA's history, how well would we actually believe in them impact? They're like, you know, following through on punishing the schools. Like, are we going to see Kirby Smart suspended six games because some kid transferred? I doubt it. Maybe the guy at, you know, New Mexico State, their coach would get nailed like we usually see. Speaking of other possible changes coming or changes that definitely are coming. But I want to go to you on this one first, because you are you're the you're Mr. Targeting. You love targeting. You're always supporting targeting. You think every hit should be targeting and players should be ejected. So the rule changed the one-year trial rule to modify the penalty structure for when players are called for targeting. Now, first of all, I will mention that they released the numbers. Targeting calls are down. There are fewer targeting calls per game that we're typically seeing. We have seen the last year, so that's good. We're seeing fewer of them. So now they want to try to maybe modify the rule in that you're no longer automatically suspended. So if you get disqualified from a game for targeting, you're out the rest of the game. but you don't have to sit the next game upon your second targeting disqual you know penalty for the season i guess it's cumulative over the years so if you don't have any by november just go off but if you get your second targeting call then you will have to sit out the first half of the next game your third targeting penalty you got to sit out a full game there will be an appeals process that the schools can file the they say hey this targeting call was bad and maybe the sitting down the suspension for half or a full game can be overturned my question is more bud do you like these changes do you think they're not going far enough what are your thoughts i mean i i don't think they go far enough i do like them for the most part uh it seems in some ways arbitrary right like as currently written these changes would say if if you know if you pop a guy in the first quarter, you have to sit out the rest of the game. So you still have the ejection component there. If you're losing and a guy's been running his mouth the whole game and you want to go light his ass up in the final minute of the game, that's a free shot now. Because I'm not suspended the next game. Oh, boo-hoo, I got to miss like 90 seconds of this ballgame, right? Yeah. And I know that other teams not going to retaliate on me, not this season, because we don't play him anymore. You know, it's a one-shot deal. Literally, one shot. So it feels like it in some ways risks creating, like, perverse incentives, you know? I don't know, man. But I think it's probably good overall. I don't think you need injections for this. Well, I think you need to go with, like, the flagrant one, flagrant two. most of us are pretty capable of saying hey like this is clearly not a football type play like this is an absolute kill shot what are we doing you know i think uh because for whatever reason the flagrant one flagrant two gets a lot of traction on social media analysts we all like it but for whatever reason it doesn't get any traction with the rules committee or the coaches Now, I do think some of that has to do with time. Like, do you want to delay the game more? It stops. They have to decide. I think they're making this way too complicated. Like, I don't like having this structured system. I don't, but trust me, I love the fact that you're not automatically suspended the second half or the first half of the next game. I love that. I think the targeting has gone way too far. I don't know why they can't come up with a system where there's a rules committee or a concussion committee. I mean, call it whatever you want, but if you get ejected in the game for a targeting or targeting in the game, it's worthy targeting. You're ejected for that game. Totally okay with that. But what we saw in the national championship game was Xavier Lucas didn make any sense That was a questionable targeting cause It was but why can we just have a committee that reviews them Former players officials combined have them look at them and dole out punishment accordingly And then you can do it during the week You know you got a couple of days, Monday, Tuesday, look at the film, take your time, have a discussion, run it by, and then you can dole out. Maybe it's a half, maybe it's a full game. If it's nasty, if it's really dirty. I don't have a problem if it's two games, but I just having these automatic, because I still think there's a chance you could see players. I mean, there are players who are really good, who are involved in a lot of tackling plays that could be subject to targeting where there might be incidental. It happens all the time. We see them like, yep, that fits the definition of targeting. But was it because the ball carrier ducked his head? It's like, ah, you got to, you got to eject them. Like, but then if you go back and watch it, You're like, this kid wasn't dirty. You know, it wasn't that bad. And, like, so I don't like this automatic escalation. And I do think, Bud, you bring up an interesting point. Like, does it? And Tom was kind of joking, hey, if it's November and you got none, why not just cut it loose? Like, I don't like that aspect of it either. But I think that is something that could come into play. So, like, I don't really understand why they couldn't review it for Flaker 1, Flaker 2. Like, the whole review of targeting already is, does it meet this element? Does it meet this element? Does it meet this element? I think you could very easily lay out something like, here's your flagrant two, okay? It's clear launch above the head or neck area where the guy is not, like, ducking into the hit. You know, like, hey, his initial launch path was clearly aimed above the shoulder pads. He's attacking, like, with his helmet. It's a clear kill shot. You can have a launch element in there if you want to, right? And then I think we all agree, like, football is a bang-bang game. If you're just tackling somebody hard and I'm aiming at his rib cage and all of a sudden he ducks into it, and yes, it becomes like a really bad but incidental hit, right? Like that's more just accidental stuff that is just bang, bang. Like the stuff that if you're trying to protect defenseless players and you're trying to curtail the behavior of like trying to kill folks with your head, I think you could pretty easily isolate that and have the elements review for that. You're already reviewing with a rubric of elements anyway. I don't really get why they don't want to do that. And the other thing, too, like the idea that going to the flagrant one, flagrant two reviews would stop the game and create more stoppages. They're already reviewing every single targeting call to begin with. Like they call it and then they go to the booth and be like, all right, let's make sure we actually didn't screw this up. And it really was targeting. So I don't think you would add much more time. I just think that the best thing you can do and like they have this in the college basketball level. to have the flagrant one, the flagrant two. And it annoys fans just like everything does when they stop the game to review it. It's annoying. But the one thing I would say that basketball has is they have very clear-cut defined rules of what it is, which it's easier to do in basketball because it's just you're not supposed to be going after a guy's head. So whether it's intentional or not, if you elbow a guy in the side of the head, they're just going to call you for the flagrant, which I don't really think I know. Sorry, John. No, go ahead. I think I know the real reason why they don't want to do this. because if you go to flagrant one, flagrant two, that whole big box of flagrant one essentially is an admission that the game is unsafe. Hey, this was a really bad hit. It's also like not purposeful. It's just something that happens in our game. You know, in 20 years from now, the concussion lawyers get out here with the lawsuits. Oh, really? Interesting. Okay, so you see what I'm saying? Like keeping it all as one penalty implies like agency on the behalf of the player and it sort of implies that he has total control of the outcome when he really kind of doesn't yeah i i just wish they'd get rid of it um period blank blank dirty hits or dirty hits eject him for that uh right other proposed rule changes big one biggest one of all the uniforms gotta wear pants boys sorry none of those none of those thigh high hot hot pants shorts you can actually get a violation of the uniform rule would be a 15 yard penalty. Can you imagine getting your team a 15-yard penalty because your pants were hiked up too high, coming to the sideline and coach just chewing your ass out for that? Other ones, a fair catch kick. Under a new proposal, team would choose to attempt a fair catch kick after a completed or awarded fair catch. The kick would be a field goal place kick with a holder, no tee, or a drop kick from the spot where the returner caught the ball, so basically a free kick. If the kick goes through the uprights, it's three points to your team's total. So it wouldn't be something you see a lot, but it could be something you saw once in a while that could end up deciding a game, and that would be kind of fun. Other rule proposals, just some stuff with the numbers on punts. There's stuff about taunting and unsportsmanlike conduct penalties. And the other bigger one, offensive pass interference penalties would be 10 yards instead of the current 15. Do any of these stand out as anything important to you? Well, scoring was way down this year. so like opi not being 15 probably will increase scoring by some small amount i would think it might also like if you're less penalized for it like the you might see more of the behavior which if it's flagged at the same rate means you're getting away with it at the same rate which you know if you have more of it in the same rate of enforcement and the penalty is less so you might be encouraging more of the behavior so you might have like more guys creating separation in that way uh did you see the one like the jersey numbers on punts yes i'll let me read i'll read it real quick um i'm trying what play caused this i'm trying to think here it was usc yeah yeah they remember they put the backup quarterback in was wearing the same number as the punter and then he uh completed a pass yeah as written by the ncaa release on punts where jersey number exceptions players who do not wear numbers 50 to 79 are used the snapper and two adjacent linemen on either side who are lined up or touching the tackle box are ineligible receivers by position and become exceptions to the numbering rule when the snapper takes his position. This makes it clear which players are eligible and ineligible receivers in the formation. So wait, that's not really the USC thing, right? No, this is just to make it easier on the umpires and the teams. So did somebody basically, you remember when the Patriots, was it the Patriots against Baltimore in the playoffs in 20, like it was around COVID times. So like within a couple of years of that, either direction, they, they kind of did a thing where it's like, Hey, like a weird formation. This guy's actually eligible. They snuck him up the seam for a touchdown. Um, or maybe Baltimore did it, did it to England. So somebody in the chat will remember that. Did somebody do this this year on a punt? I have no idea. And if so, how like that's interesting. But some, somebody had to, because, you know, an angry coach showed up and just wrote like a 5,000 word, like, reasoning why we need these rule changes and they're just like, alright man, calm the hell down. Or it could be because of the shifting. Right? With all the Aussie punt styles? Well, like, if you do a massive shift on your punt formation, does it cause headaches to officiate the game for the umpire? We have to have officials who listen to this show. You can email us. Send it. Tweet us. Yeah. That's interesting. because I can't think of a play in which that happened this year, and we watch a lot of college football between the four of us. And we do know for a fact that they listen. They do not watch because they are blind. Hey-oh. Anyway, we should probably hit a break, and after the break, we're going to talk a little bit about how they're going to save college football this week. I don't know if you guys heard, big meeting going down in Florida at the end of the week. So we'll get to that after the break. all right welcome back to the show uh the president's going to take some time away from you know other more important things this week to have a college football roundtable called the saving college sports roundtable and it'll be taking place in march 6th in florida and pretty much everybody who does live in florida or has lived in florida has been invited to this round table except for bud elliott and danny cannell i'm sorry you two were left on the sideline but some of the people in this roundtable include names that you would expect like former coaches urban meyer nick saban matt brown players like charlie ward and then there's you know some some government officials florida governor ron desantis will be there former secretary of state condoleezza rice will be there and then other names that maybe you're kind of like huh why like tiger woods okay uh charlie baker obviously the ncaa president will be there the power four conferences will be there Pete Bivak with a Notre Dame AD will be there. Jack Swarbrick, the former Notre Dame AD, will be there. Got to have two Notre Dame ADs there. ADs of other schools, Joe Stiglione. Adam Silver, NBA commissioner. Robert Kraft, Jimmy Pataro, and Eric Shanks from ESPN and Fox. That makes sense. That's TV. You probably need to have them there because if you're going to be making changes to college sports, they're going to want to know. Bryson DeChambeau? I know Bryson played in college golf. I don't really know what Bryson is. I guess I'm you guy. like is bryson going to try to figure out how to break 50 for college football i don't know cody campbell will be there jerry cardinal the managing partner of redbird capital i guess that makes sense because well so anyways the point is who's not going to be there no active players although plenty former and no current agents so it definitely feels like the solution is being guided in one direction but will college football be saved by march 7th that day it will all be saved it's gonna be all fixed from this round table they're gonna come out and we're just getting a new plan it's all gonna be right there just fixed bam i was gonna make a joke um hmm i was gonna say josh isn't on the list josh has to be pissed must not have gone great jeez i don't know oh man um didn't do enough views see i was i was worried about bringing that up this up on the show because i feel like trump has not been great for college football podcasts in the last couple of weeks but anyway so like the entire point of this i mean i'm not bothered by the fact because it's like the government has been they've been trying to get the government involved in trying to figure this out clearly as all these problems we've talked about college football is kind of on an antitrust exemption that would allow it to be able to do a lot of these quote-unquote sweeping changes that would fix the sport i the president can't do that as far as i'm aware um but i do think that maybe putting it on the dock it's not the worst thing to eventually kicking the ball a little further down the road yeah the reason he can't just fix this with an executive order, much like how the last executive order didn't result to, didn't amount to anything, is because literally the power to issue antitrust exemptions is exclusively the power of Congress, with very limited exceptions, like a national defense thing in wartime, which if you can't get the tariffs through, you're not going to get, you're not going to be able to claim a national security issue to justify an antitrust exemption for college football. So just, that's not really a political stance, it's more like This is literally the job of the legislature, not, you know, the president. So, yeah, I mean, first of all, I think it's going to be really fun. Like probably really good dinners and awesome time for golf. Yeah, that's why I'm jealous. They will get a lot done, like a lot of foursomes. Is it a two-day affair? Is it a two-day deal? Is it a two-day? Like can you do – is it – you know, you get to come in, play a little round of golf, and then you meet, you know? Do you think they shotgun it, switch the fours after lunch and play nine and nine? Yes, probably. I get every coach, not every coach. A lot of coaches have said, we need Congress to step in. It's just nothing's going to get fixed until we get collective bargaining. That's the last thing they want. So they're trying to do everything to circumvent that. Correct? Yes. Yeah. So like, I mean, is this a Hail Mary? Is it whatever? They're just trying to come up with something. But I think we all know what the end is going to be. It's just a matter of time. It's a much better business model to keep doing what you're doing. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's why. Yeah. Not quite as good as the old business model, but no, you know. Yeah. My official prediction for March 6th is that they will talk, nothing will happen, And then we'll move on from there and we'll just keep complaining about everything. And then maybe one day things will change. The other telling piece is like even some of the Democrats who you think might like be persuaded into like going along with some of this. None of them are there. Right. Did they get invited? No, probably. This current administration is not known for extending invites to the other side. So you have a whole bunch of people who already agree on an issue meeting to continue to agree and complain about the issue, basically. Yes, that is. That's how things go these days. All right. The biggest thing that happened this weekend for all of us was the NFL draft combine. Bunch of guys running around in tights. And the biggest story that I've seen coming out of it is how human beings are faster than ever before. record setting 40 times all throughout the combine. Now, I'm going to, Danny, I'm going to come to you with a trivia question, all right? I don't know if you've seen this, but the average 40-yard dash time for every single position group was the best of all time except for one position Which position was only the second best of all time Do you know I do not Is it the QB class Yeah, that's why I'm coming to you. Why are you guys so slow? Because it is one of the worst classes, but I'm like, how could that translate maybe? But that does make some sense when you think about the group coming out. Even with Taylon Green being the all-time, setting some records for quarterback performances, Even with him, he couldn't pull everybody up with him. My favorite part of this, seeing this happen over the weekend and just following along, I don't know how closely you guys follow along, but people were trying to come up with the reasons why this happened. And it's like, well, you know, like six, seven years ago, we really started seeing high school athletes start really training professionally and getting ready for this, and now we're seeing the fruits of it, and they're much faster, they're in better shape, blah, blah, blah. And I won't deny that that's some of it, but the biggest reason why the fastest times ever are taking place is none of the slow people are running. Like so many people opt out of these now than they used to. So it's like anybody who knows they're going to put up a hell of a time. Hell yeah. I'll run. Jeremiah love says I'll run. I'm going to run in the four threes. I don't care. I've got nothing to worry about, but the guy who might run the four or five at the running back position, he's like, ah, you know, my feeling a little cramp in my hammy. I just don't think I can risk it this week, boys. So, yeah, I just it's it is fun to see all that kind of stuff. But overall, I will say. It is selection bias with the sample, but some pretty impressive scores. I think the biggest you mentioned Taylor Green, Danny, who had a fantastic weekend. I think the one guy who really stood out for his his performance at the combine, if we can award it to the one player, I would go with Sonny Stiles, the Ohio State linebacker who was ridiculous. like he had the 43 and a half inch vertical an 11 foot broad jump he ran the 40 and 4.46 just a really really good performance for Sonny Stiles some people are saying it's going to launch him into like the top 10 maybe the top five I don't know if I buy that he's still a linebacker I don't think he's going to go super early and I think people tend to overreact to the combine because the way I've always approached it at least and I'm don't do this professionally I just do it for work um i use the combine more as like a tiebreaker with certain players like i'll tear guys and then i'll see how they perform at the combine and i'm like all right i'll bump a guy up i'm not usually launching a guy 50 spots up my board because he ran really fast in his underwear but but who who really stood out to you that you watched this weekend or you saw the results from and you were like oh wow i i did not see that coming i mean i think two indiana guys um omar Cooper, like his tape is really good. His route running is good, like his feel for the game. And then he put up like he put up really strong numbers, not like totally freaky, but it's like, OK, like this guy has NFL athleticism. I think that that kind of checks with what we saw this past year. Also, I mean, ponds go back. I was talking to Jimbo Fisher maybe 15 years ago now and about like LaMarcus Joyner, how short he was but how long his arms were right and he's like well you don't you don't pick passes off with your head right pick them off with their hands how long your arms you know so i i think like his leaping ability his tape against jeremiah smith which is not new from the combine but the leaping ability i mean he he jumped out of the gym like three times and his arms uh relative to his height were also pretty good because he obviously he's short those were really good um How about Demonte Capehart? Yeah. That guy probably made himself some money, I would think. I mean, 313, 485, 1710, like that's moving pretty nice. It is strange to me in that, like, it happens every year, but, like, these Clemson guys test, like, incredibly well. but they just i watch him play and it's like the last few years anymore like there was a while there during the peak where like all these dudes were playing incredible but it's like then you watch him play and you're just like he's they never really seem to play up to it yeah terrell did this year uh or terrell uh the corner i thought was really good still um what going back to ponds like the one thing that surprised he did not run the 40 but he likes sunny styles he also had that 43 and a half inch vertical. I thought he would run the 40 because I still remember two years ago in the playoff game where Jeremiah Love had that 98 yard touchdown run. Now we know who Jeremiah Love is. He ran like four, three, five at, at the combine. Ponds chased him down and he got like, he was cut off on an angle by his own teammate, cut him off, made him stop and slow down. And then he had to start running again. And he was closing on Love over like the last 40 yards. So I was actually very surprised not to see him run the 40. Cause I would have thought he would have done and then like the 4-4 range himself. So I don't know why he didn't. Maybe he actually had some muscle problems he didn't want to mess with. I felt like the three bigger corners who aren't going to be first-round types, like the two guys from Washington. Davis and Prysock. And then Toriano Pride. He was a fairly big recruit. We knew this guy has athleticism. I think some team's going to say, okay, how do we lock that in? Like, how do we get more out of this guy as a player than what he showed at Missouri? Because, like, the physical stuff seems to be there. Tom, you were talking about what you use the combine for. Because then you can easily get fooled. I mean, you know, you see these guys who test off the charts. I mean, Anthony, we were talking about Taylor Greene. Anthony Richardson was the last quarterback who set all these records, launched him up the charts, and was like, oh, the film does not back it up. I like to use it as confirmation bias. Like guys that I really like, and you're like, oh, that makes a lot of sense. Kenyon Sadiq at Oregon had the fastest 40 from a tight end we've seen since 2003. That was awesome. And then I also get a little bit suspect when you see a guy who doesn't confirm what you thought. And I thought, now I'm not changing my mind on him, but Carnell Tate running a 4-5-4, I think was his best 40 time. You'd like to see that a little bit faster. I thought Brandon Bean was great. He was on NFL network with those guys while he was running. And he's like, yeah, I wouldn't take him. Anybody don't take him. He's slow. And Ryan Wilson today on his mock draft had the bills like trading up to the top five to get him because they feel like they're one receiver away. Yeah. Yeah. I'm trading up all the way to number three to get him. I thought that was pretty good. So, I mean, and it's like, it's not that alarming considering all these scores are off the charts, but those were kind of two different aspects. kenyan sadiq i already liked him i know you do too tom he blew he blew people away and then carnell tate is somebody who i still like it wasn't too much of a red flag for me i still like the size at that you know his capability what he's able to do but those were kind of two different angles of you know i would have liked seeing carnell tape run a little bit faster but not going to deter me from taking him if i was a team and we talked about that last week on tate they're like look i he's not going to be like a 4-4 guy like even in IMG it was like okay like how maxed out is this guy which is not really a knock it's like he's already really really damn good and very well-rounded player but he's not like freaky you know he's more smooth than he is like you know burner like it's just he's able to his ability to move without really decelerating and having to accelerate again just like his little movements are just kind of fluid. And that I think is what's the difference for him. Like four and a 4.5. And that's the other thing too, by the way, we're talking about a guy who ran a four or five, like dude, this dude's running in molasses. He's got a piano on his back. It'll be just fine. Um, other player, like, I think a lot of people were caught off guard by Arkansas's backfield. Like if I don't know how many of our listeners do look at the RAS scores, the relative athletic scores, but they're all done on a score of a scale of one to 10, 10 being the best. And it's all just, it, it mashes together your performance at the combine to spit out the score. I don't know the formula. They're not perfect because especially with a lot of the stuff, the guys aren't doing all the drills that they used to do, but Arkansas quarterback, Taylor green, who I will never give up on. Had a 9.99 score and running back, Mike Washington, Jr. The transfer, he was only there for one year, had a 10.0. He had a perfect score. And so, which leads to a lot of people like, man, Arkansas had both of these guys in their backfield why did they suck well that exposes you as a non-ball knower Arkansas's offense was not the problem last year folks they scored 33 points a game they gave up like 35. Ryan Wilson I almost called him out because he said that this morning he's like I don't know why Arkansas wasn't any good because I was like their defense sucked defense I was like that's why another name worth I think that could surprise people because I talked about it when with my mock draft we talked about on the show, Danny, we did it in the hour-long segment on HQ last week. Like, I feel like this is a very good tackle class as far as depth. There's a lot of really solid guys, but there wasn't like that clear number one dude who really stands out. It's like, this guy's going to be incredible. I had him in the first round of my first mock, late first round going, but he had a very good combine, and I've already seen it lead to some people wondering if he's going to get taken a lot earlier just because teams are going to be drafting him based on what he could be because he does not have a ton of experience compared to the other guys in this class. But George's Monroe Freelich came in. First, he measured 6'7", 315 pounds, 35-inch arm length, 10.75 hand. Really good vertical, really good broad jump. Ran a 4'9", 340, which is one of the better 40s you've ever seen from a tackle. This is a guy now who I think people are going to – you're going to start to see him in mock drafts start creeping up towards that top 10. That's my gut feeling just because of the projection there because he is a guy who is, we know he's a left tackle, and there's still a lot of untapped kind of potential in there. So that's something I would keep a name out on. Is there anybody else you guys just thought maybe flew under the radar a bit? I would say – Jeff Caldwell. Who? Jeff Caldwell from Cincinnati? Mm-hmm. Yeah. 4-3-1 at like 6-5? Mm-hmm. That's insane. There's not a lot of dudes in that category. No. There's a lot of 4-3 guys who are 5-10. Not a lot of them 6-5. He was second out of 3,830 receivers since 1987 in the RAS score. That's good. Lucas in the chat said Drew Aller will be a successful NFL starter. I did see a lot of people were impressed with his size, his stature, his arm. I don't know. That one's for me where I'll just go back to the tape every single time where you kept waiting and waiting. Is he going to step up big in that moment? And I think some teams probably going to fall in love with him because he's got the size. He's got it all. But that is a buyer beware for me, for Drew Aller. I would probably not go there. On the other side, Carson Beck is somebody that I think is like a third-round pick. I thought he was impressive as far as people like, oh, he's bigger than you think. Yeah, he's throwing it a little bit better because he's further removed from the injury. Ty Simpson, another one who threw it really well. People were saying, oh, his back looks healthy. He threw it really well. So some of the QBs, I got to watch some of them throw. The other thing is, so we're watching. I was watching with my 13-year-old Brady, and she was asking me. She's like, how do you tell? And I was like, just watch. They were just on nine routes, just go routes. And some of them were short. You had to slow down, so she was on it. But you can also get deceived by it because smarter quarterbacks, and I would say Diego Pavia, whatever you want, like he was throwing it so early, so the receiver caught it in stride, and they're like, oh, that's a beautiful ball from Diego Pavia. I was like, I was trying to explain it to him. Like he's just throwing it really early, so it looks like that. And then it's not fair to show anybody with Josh Allen who just waits and just waits and then just launches it like 80 yards in the air and the receiver's still running perfectly in stride. I thought it was interesting because it is hard to tell on a lot of this stuff. But I do think the advantage of seeing guys throw back to back to back, like you get to watch them all go right there and see how they look. Some of the draft podcasts were pointing out how Nussmeyer was definitely hurt all year. And now it's a known thing. And I was like, okay. Yeah. I mean, I do the injury reports. He's fine. Yeah, sure. I thought Dylan Thienemann from Oregon the 40 step was good, the jumping was good but I thought him showing that he's not just a linear guy the change of direction without having to take the gather steps was pretty impressive I watched Dylan Thienemann at the Combine this weekend and I had the sudden realization that there's a decent chance the Bears are going to end up drafting him and then I'm going to be sitting there like I was the Thienemann hater when he was, you know, it's like, oh, this guy's just stat pad. And to his credit, I think he's gotten a lot better the last few years. So, you know what, if he does end up in the Bears, I'll be like, maybe I motivated him and sent him on to a great NFL career. You mentioned Josh Allen, Danny. One of the funny things to me, takeaways was people watching. He did not, Fernando Mendoza didn't really do anything at the combine. He got measured. He didn't throw, he didn't do any of the other stuff because he wants to make sure everybody comes to Indiana's pro day, just being a great LinkedIn teammate. but like how shocked people were by how big he is. Cause he's five and he's 236 pounds, which for those that's the same size as Josh Allen. Like he's just all, and he says he weighs just as much. And you think of Josh Allen as a beast, but you look at Fernando Mendoza and it's like that. He doesn't look like Josh Allen, but he is, he a very large human being but he not telling you as long I don think your hot take for the day i blaming adidas uniforms they have no swag the show it just doesn it just because i remember i was saying i watched him at indianapolis warm up on the sidelines and i was just like not that impressed he's like yeah and then he just plays awesome it's just i i blame the uniforms for why people thought he was smaller i mean like when he scored the touchdown in the title game he yeah Like dudes who are going to be first, second round picks bounced off of him as he was crossing the goal line. He is not a tiny man. He is a very large human being. And it's part of the reason why he rates so highly. We should probably head to the break here. And after we get back, we will discuss, we saw a flash of it earlier. Ryan Wilson, CBSSports.com's draft expert, has released his first post mock or first post combine mock. We'll give it a look and we'll share our thoughts on it coming up after the break. we are back and i just want to mention that i as always i truly love when our uh when our system logs me out during the middle of us during the middle of a show and then i have to go through like the 35 step process to log back in to make sure i'm not giving away government tax code email code another code is is that the real reason we went to break just now you'll never know but now that we are back for break as i mentioned ryan wilson has released his latest mock which it's never going to be as good as any of mine but we'll discuss it anyway because we discussed mine earlier as you can see on the screen for those watching the number one pick still remains fernando mendoza going to the raiders bit of a change on the consensus that we're typically seeing this early in the process instead of arvel reese who is most commonly mocked to the jets at number two. David Bailey goes to the Jets at two. We discussed the Bills trading up to three for Carnell Tate. Sonny Stiles, Mr. Combine, up at number four to the Tennessee Titans. Caleb Downs to the Giants at five. First offensive tackle off the board is Francis Mowing Noah to the Browns, who did just trade for an offensive lineman this week or this morning. So I wonder if Ryan would change that if he knew that ahead of time. Arvel Reese goes to the Commanders at seven. Jeremiah I love to the St. Spencer for no to the Chiefs and Ruben Bain falls to 10 to the Bengals. What anything standing out here that you're like, Ryan, you're out of your mind, but. Sonny styles over Ruben Bain. Wow. I mean, honestly, like I guess David Bailey, because he did test really well. but like i've never really thought watching them that bailey is in the same league as bane as an overall player um it's the arms yeah that was the hottest topic in indianapolis when he measured and his arms were what they were even shorter than we've said melvin ingram a couple times right and it was like his arms were significantly shorter than his and then of course with ai do you see some of the pictures that they put out of him like that were so mean Oh, it's like the Whopper Jr. stuff when the guys have the tiny hands. Yes. There's Whopper Jr. commercials. Yes. It was just mean. But, I mean, and I also think that Will Campbell's struggles on the offensive side of the ball when arm length was a topic with him, I think that's probably hurting Ruben Bain as well. He's, again, it's one where you wouldn't, like, it does concern you. You see the stats, how many guys have struggled coming off the edge. I do think he's somebody you could work down inside as well. that if there was a problem, if he wasn't succeeding, you could move him inside. But I love the way he plays, man. He jumps off the tape. And high motor, his ability to use his leverage, his lower body. His lower body is tree trunks. He's some of the thickest lower body that I've seen. I wouldn't bet against him at all. I think the difference between, and it's a good point, I think the difference between Will Campbell and Bain, And it's like we saw Campbell struggle with the stuff that he struggled with in high school and in college. Like when Campbell went to some of these elite camps, like people got into his body and he couldn't anchor. And in college, like when he lost, that was generally why he lost. You know, like he doesn't anchor real well and he doesn't have great length. So you're able to kind of get like kind of get into that chest plate and get after him. I don't know that I ever really saw like where are the reps of Bain truly struggling because of the length? They don't exist. Yeah. Not many of them, man. If anything, he, he gets into your chest like, like more than you get into his. Yeah. Another takeaway from this latest mock is that three of the top five picks are Ohio state players and four of the top seven. So clearly that team had to have won the national title this year. Like that kind of talent, You can't not win a national title when you've got four top seven picks. How many guys are older dudes? Out of all of them, they're all like 22. I mean, Tate's only a three-year player, right? Who's only one? Tate's a three-year guy. Bailey's a four. Caleb's a three-year guy. Love is a three-year guy. I don't know. Hold on, because Bailey was two at Stanford? Mm-hmm. Or was he one at Stanford? I thought he was two. Yeah, I think he was two, right? Because he killed Hawaii in 23? Okay. All blends together. How many games do we watch a week? Yeah, a lot. Downs was a three. Maui Noah was a three. Bailey was at Stanford in 2022. He played 11 games. So he's a four-year player. Yeah, so he was definitely a four. Okay. So that was his first game of his sophomore year. Mm-hmm. Styles is only 20. After the top 10 in Ryan's mock, we have our first corner taken. Mansoor Delane goes to the Dolphins. I'm pretty sure I have that in my mock. He still has Jermon McCoy going 12 to the Cowboys. I don't know. I have to do my mock today or tomorrow at some point, and it's going to be published on Wednesday. I don't know how to feel about McCoy at this point because the fact that he didn't do any, like he didn't show up to the combine just kind of concerns me. But I still think that teams will, you know, he missed all 2025, but teams really do like him off 2024. His teammate Colton Hood goes next at 13. Caleb Banks goes off the board at number 14 to Baltimore. The Freak, Kenyon Sadiq, at 15 to the Bucs. My guy, Makai Lemon, goes at 16 to the Jets. I have him at 6 in my latest mock. He had the crazy eyes. I don't know if you guys – He was making love to the camera. I know. He's my number one pick now after that. 17, TJ Parker of the Clemson Edge goes to Detroit. 18, Peter Woods, the Clemson DT, goes to Minnesota, so two teammates in the NFC North. Hayden Proctor going 19 to the Carolina Panthers, and Keldrick Falk, the Auburn edge, going to the Cowboys at 20. Anything stand out to you guys from there? Falk is, like, super young. Another 20-year-old. Yeah, he's, like, comparing him to a guy like, take, like, a Messador, right, who's got to be, he's got to be like 25 at this point. If you're like an NFL front office, that's got to be a difficult comparison to make. I mean, you're getting a guy who's like five years younger. Falk might grow into a D-tackle. I know Renner thinks he will. I mean, he's already this big at 20. Yeah, he was listed at 6'6", 285. So he's not a tiny boy. Yeah. He's a big, fast man. um after that let's see at 21 denzel boston the receiver from washington goes to the steelers he ran a really good 40 time didn't he yeah yeah he's he's a good player um oliva vega ione goes to the chargers at 22 caleb lomu the other utah tackle goes to the eagles at 23 jordan tyson mr arizona state's entire offense goes to the browns at 24 that's a pretty damn good value for cleveland that late in the first the 40 year old the key mesador previously mentioned goes to the chicago bears at 25 clemson offensive tackle blake miller goes to the cardinals at 26 now here's the pick we got to because i know bud's going to be excited because we talked about him earlier omar cooper goes at 27 to the san francisco 49ers bud's going to get his jersey caden mcdonald at 28 to the texans ty simpson the heir apparent to matt stafford at 29 of the rams And then the final three picks are CJ Allen at 30 to the Broncos, Toledo safety, Emmanuel McNeil Warren to the Patriots and Avion Terrell, the Clemson corner who we previously discussed going at number 32 to the Seahawks. A lot of the names that we heard in the back, like 20 picks of Ryan's draft at receiver. I don't know that they are that different than Carnell Tate. Who's going three. Like you'd have to really fall in love with the idea. And look, obviously, the Bills have a window to win with Josh Allen. I'm not saying he's close to the end of his career, but he does take a lot of hits. So maybe if they're really, really convinced. Three feels high there to me, but I'm not an NFL reporter, so maybe he's heard that the Bills love the guy. That would be a trade-up for them? Yeah. So if they're trading up for Tate at three, they have to love the hell out of him. Here's something I want to get into with my ACC boys here. There are four Clemson players going for the first round of this mock. Theory. First of all, Ryan, like our late Chip Patterson, a North Carolina guy, so you know he watches a lot of ACC football. Is the problem that people are watching Clemson against ACC teams and they just think these guys are a lot better than they are? Well, I think these guys have a lot of talent. Yes. Most of them are kind of from that final class before Dabo started getting kind of not worked over, but like had a noticeable drop in the quality of recruiting. So like spinning it to college, like, oof. I think I have a real hard time thinking even with some of the coaching changes that that team improves this year. Yeah, I was, I mean, I'm mostly joking, but they're talented. My bigger takeaway is Clemson has a whole lot of first-round picks for a team that just does not live up to the potential of its roster. Did he have Terrell going? Yeah, he's the last pick of the first round. It's him, the offensive line. K-Park's going to go top 50. Yeah, so is Clemson going to have more draft points than Indiana? He might, yeah. I mean, they'll get a ton for Mendoza at one. Right. But, yeah. Danny, do you have any defense for the ACC? How many of the four are on defense? Three. And their offensive tackle, which if you'd have put me to the fires at the beginning of the season and said, you know, would Clemson's offensive line have a first-round pick on it, I probably would have risked a whole hell of a lot. That is a surprise. But I do think it's somewhat over to Arkansas. Arkansas. I think their defense was still pretty good. The offense was more problematic, playing a wide receiver at running back. Cade Clubnick struggled to fulfill his potential. He's kind of similar. Speaking of Cade, he had tiny little hangings. He is not a big guy. I remember coming into the season, I liked him and I thought he would play good for Clemson, but I did not like him. He was mocked as a first-round pick. I'm like, there's no way he's a first-round pick. Yeah, we talked about this after the Elite 11. Like, seeing him throw no shoulder pads is like... Yeah, just the frame is not... Those guys have a look to them, generally. And if they don't, then they have crazy wheels. Right. The thing I learned, I thought people from Indiana were, like, nice. I mean, like, very welcoming. I mean, I thought them booing Carson Beck. I mean, you guys beat him in the national championship. game and he's out there getting booed why he never like it's not like he trashed him he didn't say we should have won or anything else i mean i thought indiana people were nice i'm gonna get out in front of this i feel like i am leading the vanguard on this one because indiana is the wonderful fun little story of the little engine that could and won a national title i am telling you all right now if indiana is this continues to be this good that fan base will be hated by everybody nationally I've dealt with this fan base my entire life because of their basketball team. Those same people are now the football fans. They are an insufferable group of people, and the more that this team wins, the worse it's going to get. They will be the Ohio State fans. They will be the Alabama fans. They will be the Notre Dame. Everything that you hate about these other big successful programs, Indiana fans are poised and ready to become those people at the drop of a hat. They are already halfway there. Just let them keep winning. They are going to be insufferable. And on that note, speaking of insufferable, Chip will be back Wednesday with the Covered 3 podcast. We are going to go with, let's see what's on the schedule. If Vegas is right, part one, we are going to discuss basically, if like you look at the win totals for what is projected for these teams in 2026, if teams play to the expectation, what's going to happen to these programs? What's going to happen to these coaches? What's everything going to look like? So it's going to be a two part series starting tomorrow or Wednesday, and then we'll finish it next Wednesday. So, uh, yeah, I hope I wasn't too terrible filling in for chip today. I hope, I hope chip gets back soon. I hope everything's okay. You know, he's fine. I'm not really worried. Uh, but Danny, thank you. And, uh, enjoy the rest of your days. See ya.