Ep 92: How Not to F*ck Up a Couple Swap (Don't Do What We Did)

Find us at vanilla swingers.com and you'll find Kat's only fans page there too. You wish. Hey Kat. Yeah Leo. I'm going to record one of those silly disclaimers that you put at the beginning of the podcast. Real advisory sticker. Let's go because this is going to be explicit. Oh yeah we're going to talk about lots of sex. Lots of bad language. We might even have sex on the podcast. We might have. Listening to the noise of our love making. There might be nudity. But you can't see it on the podcast. Doesn't matter. You can hear it. You can hear the nudity. We might corrupt you if you're under the age of 18. That's the disclaimer. Don't listen. We're not professional. What else? And yeah we're not professionals. We know nothing. Absolutely nothing. And if you want to try to sue us? Well we don't have any money either. Because this is bite-size and commercial free. We're not trying to make any money. It's fun. So if you like it then tune in and listen. Yeah. Word. It's Leo. It's Kitty Cat. We're going to just jump right into it. We're going to jump into the other half of our epic Euro trip. Oh I thought we were going to talk about why we've sailed on our last bliss cruise. No. Let's do rock paper scissors. Ready? Oh it's a tie. For the listeners out there. We have a gripping gripping. For the listeners out there. We have a gripping grudge match of two papers. Oh f**k. I always go for rock and they always go for paper. I thought I'd go for paper again. Two out of three. Here we go. Oh f**k. I was such a manipulator. Scissors. Scissors. I scissors you. You did scissors me. Yeah you could scissors me. Okay. I always feel like with rock paper scissors I walk right into the trap. I'm just not playing 4D chess when it comes to rock paper scissors. Okay so I won. So we get to talk about whatever I want to talk about. Okay. I want to talk about the other half of Europe. Why don't you go ahead and back your seat up and I will go down to the wheel well and I'll service you. Will you? I'll take my pants off. Okay. We're at a Raising Canes parking lot this time. Hold on a second. Everybody's been raving about Raising Canes. Raising Canes. Because you know we are Popeyes aficionados. Love that chicken from Popeyes. Through and through. Because we like their sweet tea and honestly their chicken tenders are really really good. But I'm about the blast theme Raising Canes. We went because we don't have Popeyes near us. We happened to be out and I really really was craving some sweet tea. I was not impressed except. They're sweet. They're sweet. It's the blind. It's better than Popeyes. Popeyes got that sweet tea where you're not always sure if somebody's cleaning out the filter. It has a little bit of that bitter taste. So Canes feels like somebody's about to lose their job if they don't clean out the filter. So go to Canes and buy yourself some sweet tea. I mean I felt like the chicken was a little too soft. It was flaccid. I feel like it was coming straight out of the microwave. I don't like it flaccid. The soft breading. It even had that Texas toast and I thought the Texas toast was going to at least be flavored. You thought it would bite back at you. It was just a piece of thick white toast. Let me tell you something. You ever been down south to a sunny's barbecue? Sunny's barbecue rocks. You want some Texas toast. Go get the Texas toast at Sunny's barbecue. They also got sweet tea. They are not messing around. I think I have a little bit of a sugar addiction. Yeah, you definitely have a sugar addiction. I did kick the chocolate chip muffins from Costco. I haven't bought those in probably two months now. Thanks to you. Roll tide. I know but I had that addiction for like 10 months. It was really bad. I was thinking today we were swiping on a couple, which we don't swipe on a ton of couples here. But we're about to get into why we are way more open to couple play. Because we see the potential. The potential. That's the word. We see the potential now. In California, you got coastal California and then you got inland. You guys probably don't realize this. They're very different. Let's just say inland California, they're going to have a cracker barrel. Coastal California, they don't know what cracker barrel is. To be honest inland is more of our speed. They're more like country California. It is. It's a little bit of country transplanted over into California. They had a couple of photos of them and they were drinking something out of a mason jar. Them's my kind of people. Yeah. You know, I like a manly man. He's got a little dirt under his fingernails from repairing his motorcycle. Right. Because I am not looking for a long term relationship. I'm looking for a situation ship and those guys are just hot. Suds and down is Ford F-150. Oh, I don't even get me going. He's got some haystraw sticking out of his mouth. Yes. But you know, when you've got the tech rows in the Bay Area, sometimes I feel like they tend to be the kind of person where they want their stuff to be just a certain way. Tucking their shirt in just so. I feel like their bedroom energy, they'd be the kind of person to put down a towel on the bed. They might not like you squirting and they certainly aren't going to clean you up. As far as I'm concerned, sex is messy and I am here for all of it. I'm the kind of person, instead of putting a towel down. We get two beds at the hotel. And one of those beds is going to be a crime scene. One of those beds is absolutely wrecked every single time. So, yeah, we looked at this couple. I think that they were throwing off signs. A little bit of country. A little bit of country. I don't know. Those are kind of our people. That's where we come from. We come from the South. Yeah, in my book, it's definitely a plus one when I see that. So let's talk about why we're talking about couples. We got to talk about the first half of our epic, epic Europe trip, which was in Amsterdam. You talk about the Caitlyn de Ossiccation. Yes, we were on the MFM World Tour for Cat. It was so, so long overdue. It definitely, like I said, last time it was Salve for my soul. I licked all my wounds. I think everybody licked your wounds. They did like a lot. I had a lot of licking. Yeah, you did. I had four licking. Well, we were talking today with Sincerza. Yummy. You know, in the last episode, we talked about there were four different encounters while we're in Europe. And we only talked to you about the last three, which were all MFMs. And those MFMs, we like to put them on the Olympic Dias. Gold, silver, bronze. And we said that Italian Edward was bronze here to four on your Mount Rushmore of life style experiences from two years ago. Taking him two years later and taking it from a saw swab to a full swab. He came in third place out of the three. And he was really lovely. Don't get me wrong. We had the amazing dreamers moment. Also the aftercare. I'm going to forever hold you in my heart. It was less a testament to how he was than it was a testament to how the two French guys were. They were that good. They were that good. They bumped him down. And so we were talking about the two French guys this morning because I was still just a little bit in cloud nine that the architect texted me a week later after care texting. Well, Kat couldn't decide which one she liked more because they had a lot of overlap in the bend diagram, but they also had very unique skill sets to which like together they're the perfect person. What did you say? Yeah, if you could combine them, there's no question. They'd be perfect. Mr. Too Good to Be True. His bedroom energy was a 10 out of 10. He just had sexual prowess for days. He was kind of manly in the bedroom, but respectful and adoring. And he had some soft skills. He made a great wingman for some DVP. I think that we tried DVP with him twice. And I think he was in both positions, wasn't he? He was the prone guy and then he came behind as well. That's always a funny conversation because you got a couple of guys who are straight. There's going to be some dicks touching. But not so straight that you're worried about crossing swords and you got to have that conversation where you say, okay, the best way for this to work is you got to put your legs together. So the prone guy on his back, I'm riding him and he has to have his legs together. And then I'm going to straddle my legs aside of his. And so their legs kind of touch. I don't know. So the hair on our legs are creating like a little bit of friction. We're going to start a forest fire. And one of the times I think you accidentally, he reached for a hip and it was your hip, not my hip, right? It might have been my thigh. The second it blew. Why are you touching my leg? Well, we were crossing swords. So there's that. And I think that was how he ultimately finished. He had pulled out whatever. Yeah, I think he finished right when he grabbed my leg. No, he said it was so tight. He said, I'm going to come. I'm going to need to stop or else I'm going to come because he wanted to continue, I think. Oh, I thought he said your quads look like you've been working out. They're a little hairy and fuzzy. And so he was a great bedroom energy, but his saw skills and EQ, I probably rate them about a seven and a half out of 10. Because you remember we got the Easter egg talking French to me after our little menage a tois and his was a little carnal lacking. OK, it was a little bit more carnal. It was not very good because he was so much better in the bedroom. He'd say beautiful things to me. So I don't know where the disconnect came from in the bedroom to let me record this. Not so good. But you know, we haven't had a fantastic sexual plus one in a good long walk. Because you know, we did Lymtix in the lifestyle episode 51, where we were talking about what an epidemic it is where you see psychological ed showing up. Because we were seeing it at that point in all these 20 something guys as low as 22. Well, the unicorn girls will say, oh, yeah, those guys in their 20s. Yeah, they go all night. So much stamina. Yeah, that's a myth. That's maybe if they're alone with me, we could go all night. They'd be hard for days. But you throw Leo in there. Am I hairy quads? You know, it's sometimes it's a little bit of a boner killer. But you were on the fence. I think you felt like we hadn't seen a good plus one sexually like that since probably about Rusky Rusky and yet Rusky had zero aftercare so much. So he's kind of hurt his stock. He's not going to probably be on my Mount Rushmore because of the zero aftercare. Yeah, he was a hit it and quit it kind of guy. Now, I do think he was a good first full swap because he did have such good bedroom energy. But then like Golden Tempo at Churchill Downs, the Kentucky Derby coming from behind. Did you guys see that race? Oh my God, he was at the back of the pack. He like passed 13 horses to win. Yeah, you don't see that very often coming from the outside like that. Similarly, you've got the architect. The architect, which should have gone so very, very wrong for us to pull that out at three in the morning on our last night. That was foolish. He started by engaging to say, I don't know how good I'm going to be in the bedroom. It's been a while. And he said, I'm a really soft energy. There was indication of maybe I'll just go down on you. I knew that maybe performance could be an issue, but I was like, it's okay. There's so much to do in the bedroom. And there was some performance issues for sure, but he was active. He was doing everything else and there was no rush. He was just there to take as long as it took. Let's put it this way. He was happy in our sexting leading up to it. He said, really kind of cute. Am I going to be deep inside you or am I just going to clean you up? And I was like, I don't know. We'll see. And we ended up doing everything. And I told him, you were fucking fantastic. And then we had the Easter egg from both of them. And Mr. Tuga to be true. You kind of dropped the ball. Was just sexting. And the architects was Manicor material. He was such soft energy. He was addicted to us. He said, I wish we could have gone all night. What he's saying is I don't wish we went longer because we stopped at six in the morning. He wished he was the number one and could have been with us from midnight till three a.m. And I'm going to tell you something from my money in the business of sex workers. There is a term that people use called the girlfriend experience. Leo has explained this to me because you know, sex workers, it's a bit transactional. You pay your money, you get sex. But guys, they might want to kiss her. Feel like she's a girlfriend. They want the girlfriend experience, even if it's spot and paid for. There's almost like a pretty woman trope where a sex worker won't kiss you on the lips. Right. Not to be intimate. It's just transactional sex only. And so if you take that metaphor and you extrapolate it to sexual encounters you have, not to try to describe it in some sex worker transactional way, I think that what we're looking for, you and I. I want the boyfriend experience. And I want the girlfriend experience. And that doesn't mean I want a boyfriend. It means in the two, three hours I'm with the architect, he feels like he could be a boyfriend. It feels loving. It feels adoring. It does not feel transactional. It does not feel like a DTF. Hit it and quit it. Hit it and quit it. And that can just happen. It doesn't even have to be sexting leading up to it in this big slow burn. It could be just in those two hours. It could be just that their soft skills are enough that it kind of pantomimes the boyfriend experience. Yeah, we want the connection. We're not really looking for that one night stand energy. We want the depth. We want the fireworks. Because one night stands, they lack that story arc. We want the entire storyline. And you know, with that said, kind of thinking back to the architect and Mr. too good to be true because of the Easter egg and what they said, I told Leo this morning, I need a recount. I've decided the architect is my gold medalist. And I think that that just goes to what I was just talking about, which is I think it just highlights that that's more important to us is the connection. Because I'm not even sure that I describe us as a friends with benefits couple. That almost sounds too impersonal. You want even maybe more than that. We like the friendship. We like the situation ship. When you have enough of these sexual encounters, you will find that the sexy fun, it almost starts to blur together. Leo's had a lot of these sexual encounters and experiences. I'm still a little bit on the new side, but I even have to admit, for me, it's really it's the connection. It is those spaces between because Leo is a fucking fantastic lover. I don't think I ever knew what a great lover he was. Don't listen to him. Until she said, hey, we got in the lifestyle. I paid her to say I see what the other guys are doing with their dongs and see. I hear from all the unicorns and ladies we play with. He's a really great lover. And I'm like, oh, I had no idea I got so lucky. So I need those spaces between because I've already got the good lover. I don't know how to follow up with that. Sometimes he needs a little glazing, OK, like a glazed donut. I have a glazed donut. That's for sure. Although he does love Boston cream pie, crispy cream. That is the key to his heart. Well, cats are great legs. Am I? Yeah, you are. Oh, my God, really? Now, you know the thing with Edward, part of why he was bronze medalist is because I had to work too damn hard. He wanted me to be on top. That was like his thing. And I realized I am a pillow princess. I would like to be on my knees. I'd like to be on my back on my side, but I am not going to want to ride you for very long. I just remember seeing the soles of his feet and they were flapping back and forth like he had flippers on. That is so awful. Good, terrible. But thanks for saying that, honey. I appreciate it. I think that we are the kind of couple that craves the connection so much more because that connection and that friendship is so much more important to us. We're one of those unusual couples that if you meet us in the lifestyle, we don't need or want anything from you in order to show you the love. True enough. I can't tell you how many people we just randomly walk up to and open at an event. And we just want to make friends. We're willing to have relationships that don't involve sex. And I'm not sure all the people in the lifestyle are like that. We've had more than one occasion where we'll have a friendship going. And at some point, if they shoot their shot and we just gently deflect, they end up actually kind of disconnecting or just randomly ghosting. And you never really hear from them again. And you think, wow, okay, I guess we were only going to be friends if play was on the table. Yeah, friendship only if they want to fuck you. But the lifestyle is pretty shallow like that. You know, here to four, we haven't had a lot of exposure to couples. And I think it speaks to we shy away from the couples because they tend to have more of a one night stand surfacant feel. And oftentimes the singles can turn into an entire storyline. There's no question about that. It feels like couples are more prone to just getting up, putting their clothes on, walking out that door and walking back. And we like the long, slow burn. We like things to unfold organically and maybe not just in a one night stand capacity. But it doesn't even have to be a long, slow burn leading up to it. No, I'm saying the afterburn. Yeah, maybe you've already had the fireworks, but it's still a long, slow burn, meaning long, like you with them multiple times. We'll sleep with you on the first date. No question about that. Oh yeah, you've been doing that since time before time. That's how you got me. You're going to spill all my secrets. I don't know. I think we already told them that somewhere though. I wasn't waiting for a second or third date for you. But what happened in those four experiences is we had three MFMs and we had one couple play that happened in Amsterdam. So we're going to focus a little bit on that couple play. Because it was really our first couple play that was different than the other two. The other two were born from the podcast. They were born from friendships that had span months. This was the first time. Meet on the app. Let's go meet in person. Let's take it to the bedroom. So the first thing is, is there a ridiculously cute couple. And our first instinct was, they're probably not going to be real. We met them off a field. They seemed way too intentional for a couple that said they'd never done anything like this before. They were 29 and 31 and they were friends with benefits couple. And we've said it before that early on in our lifestyle journey, when we were trying to figure out where all the pitfalls and landmines were. So we didn't make mistakes as newbies. We went super, super, super slow. And one of the pitfalls that we felt could be out there is the notion that sometimes you go into a club and you get a couple presenting as a couple that's really just a friends with benefits. It's really like a unicorn and a single male. They come together to help that single male get in at a cheaper rate. Or maybe they don't let single males in at all. And it's just a total subterfuge. When he's coming in to do a swap with your wife, he's basically like a single guy. And Leo always felt you don't have any skin in the game. You don't really even care that much about this friends with benefits. Whereas Leo's like, this is my wife. She's my life. In my opinion, it would be a cheat code. If I could have a friends with benefits girl who would accompany me to a club. And you say, here, do you want to trade? Anybody want to trade? And we could do a couple swaps. That's like me getting single girls one after the other. And so I was always paranoid thinking, this is somebody who's trying to trick me out of my wife. And it wasn't even at that point that we felt afraid of the single males far from it. It was more Leo doesn't want to feel like there's any subterfuge. He'd like it to be transparent, two plus two equals four. We totally hold space for single guys. It's always been a substantial part of our dynamic. And it's how we started in the lifestyle. Single guys don't concern me whatsoever. But she'd like them to present as single guys. I don't mind being a director. I don't mind going in a club where it's swarming with single guys. I'll make sure that everybody's well behaved with you. With that said, we did go to Twist in San Francisco one time. And we had a guy approach with a girl and he was glazing on you. She seemed like she wasn't really into it. And they made it very clear early on. We just met off the apps. I think in hindsight, we realized that they were probably work colleagues. They had no chemistry whatsoever. And she had an attitude like a lifestyle club was the last place she wanted to be. And in light of that, I think we realized he was just a single guy and he was trying to smooth the end on you. Masquerading as a couple. And we didn't really like that subterfuge at all. And so one of the ways that we came up with the counter that was when we're talking with a couple, we'll just throw out how long you guys been together. And if they say, oh, we met three months ago on Tinder, that's probably going to blow them out. That was how we felt early on fast forward, two and a half-ish years in. And now honestly, that's very much the type of couple we are drawn toward. A friends with benefits, because it's almost like having two singles in the bedroom and we know what to do with a single female and we know what to do with a single male. And friends with benefits can be really hot. Yeah, because they're still on the dating market. They're two singles, basically. Exactly. It turns out our paranoia was totally misplaced because in our lifestyle journey, we passed on a couple of really great ones. Seattle and Boston is one that got away. And in hindsight, we realized that would have been a perfect dynamic for us because we talk about taking two, three sums and merging them together into a four-sum. That's the closest thing that you get. So we have this Dutch couple and besides them seeming so intentioned, but brand new and really, really cute, it was girl, girl, let's. So she and I were doing the talking and she wasn't very talkative. And I thought, I don't know. I don't think they're going to actually show up. That's a pro tip. I mean, I know there's a ton of guys who run the accounts. Oh my gosh, I think it's like probably 80 to 90 percent. It's guys, husbands, boyfriends who are running the accounts. And if your girlfriend, your wife, she's not into it, if she's not a textor, then go ahead and continue with that dynamic. But if she is, I think you're overlooking a secret weapon. Having the girl lead a lot of those interactions, especially with other girls. Or if you're talking to another couple and it's clear you're talking to the wife or the female partner, it goes a long way toward developing trust immediately. Absolutely. Because your guard will lower when you think, oh, we're talking girl talk here. And we haven't quite figured out how this relates to me being the point person for single guys. Sometimes we think it would be better if Leo was the point person or I pretend to be a guy because I'm pretty flirty, I'm pretty sexy, and I don't know if that's actually helping us. Well, you know what they say. The more you talk, the less you play. I know, but I got Mr. Too Good to Be True and I got the architect. And it was a little sexy, flirty, so it worked. Bottom line is, go to Paris. The French, they love an American girl. If you are an American girl, run, don't walk your way to the Eiffel Tower. You will find in the land of baguettes. Hey, croissants. Hey, croissants. You will find horny French guys that will be super intentioned. On a Wednesday night, I had two guys who were really not going to take no for an answer. Because it's a long time fantasy of theirs. And to be honest with you, I think that it's probably a fantasy of yours to have some sexy French lovers. I could probably live in Paris. I could live in Europe for probably 10 years and I would never grow tired. 100%. Of the exoticism of a European man. They brought back the fun to the MFMs. For you. They're always fun for me. Of course they're always fun for you. I don't think I really wanted to admit that they were feeling like retreads. And part of the reason for that was so many of these guys do struggle in the dynamic. I don't think guys are naturally wired to have sex with other guys sitting in the room. Certainly not slapping our hairy thighs together. And it could be a mindfuck. Also, not only is it, okay, there's another guy in the bedroom. It is this girl's partner. Is he going to kill me? It's a husband. Is he going to go crazy and snap? Is he going to be jealous? Right. Is he going to like go apeshit crazy? So what was happening in our dynamic oftentimes is that we go on this stretch run with unicorns. Sometimes it would get so far out of balance that I would feel absolutely stricken with guilt. And it was long overdue for you to have a really great MFM. And we tried multiple times and they just kept canceling, bailing, ghosting to where Leo's like, come on, Stuart Scott. And so finally. Because Stuart Scott, we were sure hated me. I'm not sure Stuart Scott hates you right now. I think Stuart Scott is a Frenchman. Wee wee. I think Stuart Scott is a European. I'm just waiting for you to come to the homeland. Yes. Come home, Kat. Wee wee. But by the time a halfway decent MFM would walk through the door, and you'd have this dynamic at play where they might struggle a little bit in the bedroom, I would start to give you a little more alone time to help the guy kind of cosplay. He's alone with me to maybe help him get himself going. Essentially, I would be putting myself in second chair. And therefore Leo didn't really like the experience because we try to do things together. It didn't feel as much like taking turns. It felt more like I was taking one for the team. Yeah. And so in France and with Edward, I don't think it felt that way for you. Did it? I had Mr. Too Good to Be True. And he was like a cheerleader. When I was inside you, he was smacking your ass and saying, oh, Leo, give it to her like that. She likes this very much, Leo. I know it's a terrible French accent. It was so terrible. Architect and I, we were bromancing out. You were just the ooey gooey middle, and we were laying in bed, and we were just talking about life. It made the MFMs fun again. Which means it's going to be difficult to find that stateside. I know that. Doesn't mean I'm not still swiping, but we're just going to wait and see. But part of the MFM struggle is part of the impetus for us starting to open up to a couple. Be more receptive to the idea of couples. And so here we were with this couple. He was arguably the best looking guy, better looking than Edward that we've seen in the lifestyle. He actually bumps him out of the top spot. He had a couple of face photos. We were like, OK, he's a really good looking guy. And then when he walked through the door, he had a personality to match. He smiled. He was charismatic. And you're like, oh my god, your fitness level was off the charts. I was absolutely smitten. Who's the guy who plays Captain America? I don't know. Tom Holland? No, that's Spider-Man. Whatever. He was like a Dutch Captain America. And she was also very cute. You could tell, though, that their dynamic in person was she really wanted a relationship with this guy. She felt like she was punching a little bit above her weight. They were work colleagues. And they'd only kind of got together at the Christmas party. So it'd been maybe six months. And they had all these kind of shenanigans. They played in the office, in the bathroom, car sex. They were truly friends with benefits. But when we asked them about what their dynamic was, she turned to him and said, I'll let him answer. And then he crushed her hopes and dreams by saying, we're not girlfriend and boyfriend. We're friends with benefits. We're not dating. We're friends with benefits. And so in a way, she was kind of going along with this. For him. She knew probably in order to keep him, they got to do some E&M shit. So let's tell you a little bit about our experience. Because it was really, really hot. But it also fell a little bit flat. But it left us wanting more. Leading up to it, we plan to initially meet up at a bar. Like walking distance from our place in Amsterdam. We had a little house with a little living room kitchen. But beating up at a bar sounded boring. And I've said it before that one of the things I really like to do is I try to do the opposite of what people expect. It's tearing the fabric of reality. It's doing something exciting, adventurous. And we also thought, you know, that's a little bit of friction. First we got to get a drink at the bar. Then we all have to decide, yeah, we're going to go back to your place. There could be time in that amount of time to change your mind. I told Kat, why don't you tell them to come straight over to the house? And you didn't like the idea, but we threw that out there. I thought it was going to scare them away. They were brand new. Never done this before. She even talked about no pressure, no expectations. And I thought, what the hell? There's no way they're going to come straight to our place. You could tell she was really nervous. This is a newbie couple. They'd never done anything like this before with a couple. And you thought we blew ourselves out because they went radio silent for about four or five hours. And then she popped up. We'll be there at eight o'clock. She was excited. And we realized at that point, I guess they might not be fake. Now we did think there's a good chance they might not show up. Because people change their mind. You get cold feet. Happens all the time. And the day of we didn't really hear from her at all. We were not invested up until about an hour before we were supposed to meet. They texted to say, we're leaving our house now. We're on our way. And I think that was one of the reasons we also didn't think they were going to show. They had to drive an hour to Amsterdam to come see us. You got to be really intentioned. And we're so used to people dropping the ball really until we see them at the bar or we see them in our purview. We don't have a lot of expectations because then our hopes don't get dashed. And because I think starting to dip a toe in the waters a couple play, I'm not sure how invested we are, how much we're really sitting there with bated breath on whether they'll show or not. Because we're so new that Leo's like, well, this isn't a unicorn experience. And I'm on the other hand, like, well, this isn't an MFM. So we're not even sure how much we want it. And is it going to be one of those surf again, one night stand, get up, put your pants on, walk out the door experience. The actual experience itself really opened our eyes to, oh, I would like a lot more of that. With an hour starting to countdown to get ready, we're running around like our hairs on fire. Dochi's anxiety is playing in the background. For some reason, it played twice. I'm like, yes, I'm feeling anxiety right now. Yes, my hair is wet. I'm walking around the apartment literally topless because I don't have time to even get dressed yet. 10 minutes before they show up, they text us, we're right outside your door. They said, we're actually early. They said, but don't worry, we'll just wait in our car or we'll go to the bar and grab a drink. I think we were so skeptical up till that point. We were like, oh, you're actually going to be here. I couldn't even believe it. Yeah. Then all of a sudden the shit got real. The nerves started turning up. We realized here we go. We're like, are lights ready? Is the music on? Oh my God, my hair is not dry yet, honey. I think we took 20 more minutes before we said, okay, we're ready. Yeah. And then. Hello. How do you say hello in Dutch? Hello. It is hello. Hello. Hello. And when they walked in, you greeted him first. I was further inside the apartment. I went and I guess we gave three kisses. That's how you do it in Holland. Yeah, Kat was unicorning for him by the time they got to the kitchen. I went ahead and hugged him both because, you know, we're already thinking, we're going to bring you to our bedroom. We might as well start with a hug. What was your first impression when you opened the door? He was damn good looking and I was all in. Yeah, that was my impression too when he walked in. This guy is damn good looking. And she was cuter than her photo. She was wearing a little black dress. I was wearing a little black dress. I'm like, oh my God, we are like sisters from another Mr. Well, you have to understand that Kat has been walking in a desert in the United States. Single guys under the age of 30 have just been universally dog. And when this guy walked in, he would have been really our most amazing MFM to date. And we learned in talking to him, he'd had a lot of couple experience. I'm like, um, hello, why didn't you just not come here alone? I could have had you as an MFM. I don't know if other couples do this, but I know because sometimes the swing or paradox when most times the wives are pretty damn good. Usually I look at the husband first. You didn't even necessarily look at her. On behalf of you, whenever I'm looking at people, I'm always looking at the guy. I don't even look at the girl. How many other people out there are like that? I don't know. Probably not because that's pretty selfless of you. Most are pretty selfish, I would say. Do you look at the girl for me? Yeah. No. You look at the guy, don't you? Because he's going to be the one that's going to make or break it almost every single time. I guess that's really what it is, is I feel like most girls are pretty damn good. Girls are sugar and spice, everything nice. And boys are snakes and snails and puppy dog tails and all the slime that goes along with those snails. We all know that generally speaking, the girls tend to try a little bit harder, which is interesting because we just came across some people talking about that well-worn, tired trope, we are fun fit, flirty, and my wife can't find a suitable guy. And while it is a well-worn trope, there is some truth to that. The only caveat that I'll add to that conversation, I don't dispute that the wives can oftentimes be a nine to a five. Or in Britain, it's a 10 and a two. You're talking about the steering wheel couple. That's a sick burn right there. That is so bad. But there is this one element from the fun fit flurries, which if you can't tell, I'm not a big fan of. If you put fun fit flirty in your profile, don't do that. We're probably going to swipe left on you. Sometimes there can be an insufferable attitude and it comes from this. Oftentimes people who lead with were a fit couple. They automatically equate being fit with being good looking. And in my opinion, you can be fit from your neck down, but you might have a face made for radio. And for me, my money is on your face 100% of the time. And I know that's not for everybody. A lot of people do equate fit with good looking. With good looking. Maybe that works for you. That's your thing. But I know for you, you like a good face first. And I would love to see a little bit more humbleness in the lifestyle when it comes to people who talk down on other people that they feel are not up to their standards. But their standard really only is tantamount to, are you doing TRT? Are you doing trimbolyn? Are you on gear? Like that's great. I appreciate a fit body. But for you, I know that talking guys on the age of 30, they could have just a slender build with no real muscular definition. And that's an aesthetic that you actually find very sexy. Yeah, like a surfer build tone, but I don't need a six pack by any stretch of the imagination. But this guy, who he had a six pack for days. Yeah, on their profile, he had all of these, what is that called? High rocks. High rocks. So they're doing this competition. So we've established that they were a cute couple. They were well intentioned, way more intentioned than a newbie couple that's never done this should. And they actually showed up at our really cute Amsterdam apartment and we beckoned them into the living room where we would get to know them and share some Prosecco. And we had this cute bedroom, almost like a little loft. You had to have stairs to climb up to get it. And the bedroom was the bed. Like the entire space of the room was the bed. We're like, okay, and we had some red lights that we had bought off amazon.nl to arrive there. And it was a really, really. It was an entire mood. It was, but we were like, damn, if we have four people in here, it is going to be tight. But we were down for it. So we're sitting there and we're talking and we realized what we did wrong and what we did right. She's going to be the slowest moving partner in the group. And she made it very clear in the texting leading up, okay, yeah, well, I'm a teeny tiny bit nervous. And so we knew he was the pervy one. He really wanted to do this. So we needed to kind of win her over. And so we went into full on relaxed, not thirsty. Yeah, we're just here to chat. Maybe sex isn't even on the table, which worked up to a point, but we probably talked for too long. We definitely set her mind at ease. And by the end, she was absolutely all for it. But she was naked in your arms with your mouth on her. She was totally, totally all for it. We'd already had a talk. We'd started playing some card games. Again, we took too damn long. In the course of the conversation, he had said, I'm ready for some dare cards. Let me see the red bedroom. I think at that point we should have taken the hint and we should have gone faster. Because if he wanted to go faster, he knows what she can and can't do. And we were just not taking the hint and going fast enough. In the end, I think it hindered us mightily. The next step was I went to the bathroom. In the meantime, while I was gone, they were on the couch. We were in chairs across from them. We haven't touched yet at all. So I said, I'm going to come sit with you guys. So I sat next to her and then I said, do you like girls and have you ever kicked? Do you want to kiss? And so she and I started making out. He was touching both of us, thought it was great. She and I pulled away and I looked at him and I said, do you want to kiss? And he came right in for a kiss and it was really, really hot. We were like on. Yeah. When I came back, you guys were up to no good. I sat down on the couch and it just became this foursome soup. Right. So then Leo's on the other side of me. I've already kissed both of them. So I told her and Leo, hey, you guys haven't kissed yet. You guys kiss. They kissed in front of me. I leaned behind her. I'm kissing him. We are doing the foursome entangley making out sesh. And then we got a little bit separate here on the chair. I'm on the couch and the boys are going down on us. And it was on. It was about to go down and it was really, really hot. It was really, really amazing. And then things went. They went so awry that I still think back at it stings just a little bit. We're going to tell you what we did right. Yeah. What we did wrong. And what we should do better next time. You need to shut the fuck up. Number one, play got cut short in the middle of things. He stopped and he said, hey, guys, I hate to do this, but I'm struggling here. He didn't say I'm struggling. He said I'm just not feeling it, which I know was code speak for. I'm struggling, but damn, that was such a bruise to my ego. I can't even tell you. Yeah. I mean, naturally as a girl, you're going to be thinking, is there something that I'm doing? Does he not like me enough? Up to that point, you guys had great chemistry. We had fantastic chemistry. He was very complimentary about the way I appeared and the way I was making him feel. And it was going great. He was going down on him. But you know how it is when a guy has performance issues as a girl, we always take it upon ourselves like, does he not like me? Is it something I'm doing? And he said, I feel so guilty right now. I feel terrible doing this. His girl was literally sprawled out in a chair. I was like sucking on her breasts. You were going down on her. She was ready to go full swap imminently. But when he appeared next to her, it was like he was taking a knee on the field. She looked at him and she didn't move. She was looking at him quizzically like, OK. Are we going to continue? What do we need to do in order to fix that? Not let's get up and leave. And then he made it pretty clear pretty soon, I think we're going to get going. And she was just dumbfounded. Well, I think she was probably dumbfounded because up to this point, she was thinking, I was nervous about this thing in the first place and you dragged me all the way here. And you're going to do this? We were at the gateway. We were about to go full. It was going to be so on. It was so hot. I think she'd finally got up the nerve. She was finally relaxed. She was having fun and she was more than ready. And then all of a sudden, he put a stick in the spokes. And he never quite said, I'm struggling. I'm having performance anxiety. But clearly that was the issue. Yeah, he was struggling and he was having performance anxiety. And you have to know he's a very attractive 29-year-old. And he also probably didn't want to look like less of a man in front of his friends with benefits, who he really is just friends with and has sex with. And so shortly after they got dressed, we gave her hugs, said our goodbyes. And they said multiple times, I am so sorry to do this to you. We feel so guilty. And we told him, don't say sorry. You don't need to say that. It's all good. We had fun. These things happen. And we enjoyed our time with you for what limited time we had. And for it getting cut short, we had an amazing time. It's the journey, not the destination. And he said, the only reason that I said it is because you guys made me feel like it was okay. Because all along we kept saying, you know, you guys could back out at any time. And we were saying that for her benefit because we knew she was the skittish one. So let's tell you all the things we learned because it was a bit of a bruise to the ego. We saw our first couple play, like off the apps, it was there. It was in our hands. And we never got to take it into our little red bedroom. We snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. It was a lot. Leo and I, after we were like, I can't even believe that just happened. But we talked a lot about all the things we learned. Number one, I think it was a great idea to invite them over to our place. I do too. It's a big friction where, oh, we're having drinks at the bar. It's flirty, flirty. And now you have to either walk or Uber to your place. And it changes the dynamic. Yeah. When you're going ahead and you're changing venues, it gives your brain some time to think about it. Maybe you get in the car, you talk about it. Maybe you get a chance to change your mind. Right. So if you have an apartment or a suite where you feel like you could bring someone up for drinks, say, why don't we have a drink? We've got a nice little living area and we'll get to know each other here. Reduce friction. Yes. Number two, we've always said that we're a couple that likes the idea of breaking the ice, maybe playing a card game, which we've been using less and less in our threesomes. And now I'm not even sure how often we're going to use it because it feels a little bit like a crutch. I think when you're a newbie couple, it's a great crutch. The cards made me do it, right? It's a great icebreaker, makes everybody feel a little bit more relaxed. However, when you get a little bit more advanced, you need to move the ball along a little bit quicker. For instance, we could have used the cards, but we should have just done dares. I don't need to ask, what's your favorite place to have sex and what's the most wild experience you had? We probably needed to jump right to dares, little dares. Like in the bottle. Yeah, kissing here. Remove an article of clothing here. You need to start amping up the sexual tension. Which goes to number three, which is verbally, he was telling us about a half an hour earlier, I'm ready for some dares. Verbally, he was telling us, I'd like to see the bedroom. Maybe he had taken a Viagra before he left and he knew I'm on the clock and I need to get started now. It's very possible that we might have run the clock out on him because we talked too damn much. And then there were a few things where I went amiss, because you were doing really great. I realized that I deep pants my guys way too fast, because I'm like, I'm going to go down on you. I'll help you out. But you know what, a guy, he knows when his pants should be off and it's when he's starting to get horny and hard. Well, if you literally deep pants a guy, he's got nowhere to hide. He's like, oh my God, I'm like a slug. He doesn't even have a snail shell. Calm, frowned. And that's what he was doing when he was taking a knee at the end. He was the only guy naked because you still had your pants on. He just got out of the swimming pool. Yes. And there was nowhere to run. I have learned and I did not do that with our subsequent MFMs. I did not take anybody's pants off. I rubbed them through their pants. I would put my hand in their pants and it was up to them to take off their own pants in their own time. So let the guy take off his own boxers. And then I did another thing. Once I deep pants him, I said, would you like me to go down on you? And he said, yeah. And he wanted to stand. Do you mind if I stand? You sit. We're doing great. He actually was very hard then. And then he laid down on top of me. But I saw you still had your pants on. And at the time we thought you have to be first. Well, this is a really nuanced item that we learned. And this is all with the whole couple swap, right? Tit for tat, do the same thing to each other. This is something you guys should really focus on. So it's twofold. One, when I got up to go to the bathroom and you smoothed your way over to the couch with them and sat down and asked her, do you like girls? Have you ever kissed girls? You guys started making out a bit. I had a little mini unicorn moment with them, a unicorn to myself. Then you invagled him. Effectively what's happening, especially with a newbie couple, is they're cosplaying that coveted MFF. And 90% of swinger couples are looking for an extra girl. And Leo and I have never done that really before because again, we'd only had two other couple experiences. But we realized, especially being more experienced with a newbie couple, this is a fantastic way to let people's guards down to where they're open to not being so scared to play. Here to four, we've always felt like it's got to be a tit for tat. And the reason is, is because let's say you and the guy jump ahead. And then I'm making out with the girl and she gives me some kind of mixed signal. Subtle cue that she doesn't want you to go inside of her and then Leo is going to look over and be like, he's fricking jackhammering my wife. And when you're a newbie couple, that's actually smart advice, is to make sure that you guys are going at the same pace so nobody jumps too far ahead in case there is a wrinkle to the swap. But when you're a little further along. We realized in hindsight, because ahead of this couple play, we talked about it. And since she seemed the skittish one, Leo actually told me, I should be the first one and you follow suit because the guy's going to be the pervy one. So let me be the first one. Yeah, the nervous person is more likely to throw a wrench into things. I think if you're a little bit more advanced at this, that tit for tat where everything's got to be even at every step of the way can be a mistake. You have an opportunity to be the one to go first. And with a newbie couple whose guard may be up higher. Sometimes you need to be the one that's going to give a little more because you're a little more experienced. Do I care if I come back and you're making out with them? I knew you wouldn't care at all. A minute before we're all for making out? Not at all. And when it came down to the actual swap dynamic, when he was on top of you. I basically looked over at Leo and I saw Leo still had his pants on. Leo and I had talked. OK, she's the skittish one. I was in a state of half undress. You actually said ahead of time, I should probably be the one that's first. Just in case she kind of gave you the cold shoulder. And that was a mistake in hindsight. It was because I went into it thinking that. So he's laying on top of me. I kind of gave him the knee. I was like, I can't let him inside of me. Kind of turn the cheeks, so to speak. And if you hadn't, he would have been game on. And then all that blowjob, all that fluffing was all to a good end. And then I'm sure you would have been up and on her within seconds. In a minute, I would have looked back. I would have seen where you guys were at. And then I would have matched your pace. As long as you feel the energy in the room is this is going to happen, then all lights are green and you can go at whatever pace you need. I think that we know we talked too much. We were trying to put her and both of them at ease so much so that I think it was to our detriment. The bottom line is you need to move things along. And they were so flirty. They're like, we mentioned that no wind recovery. So like, oh, we're going to give them something to talk about. It was so hot and so flirty. If the buying temperature is high, I don't think you need to draw it out quite as much. We should have just listened to their verbal cues. He said, I'm ready. Let's go. That was a half an hour before, which leads me to something else. We made sure that they felt so comfortable. We let them know that we were so not thirsty that if at any time they changed their mind, they could be halfway through it. And we didn't just say it once. Hey, don't worry. No pressure. We said it even right before we started playing. We said, and don't forget it anytime you can change your mind. And honestly, that was probably our downfall. And that's in our hearts. So no matter what, if at any point somebody has a hitch and they want to just say, you know what, I got to stop things. I'm not feeling comfortable. We're never going to mind. We never pressure. But us saying it like five times. It almost encouraged it. And I wonder sometimes in hindsight, had we not said it so vociferously. Obviously he was struggling. Would he have just got it together like, oh my god. OK, let me get it together. Let me help myself get hard. Would he have just tried to soldier on? I think he probably would. I think he would have because his girl was an absolute ecstasy. I know he was enjoying me, but I think he got into his head a little bit. He went into the death spiral. And they left and everything was great. We did have a couple aftercare texts where they said, I'm so sorry. Again, we feel so guilty. You guys have been wonderful. Really great kind of closure. It opened our eyes that it could be really quite wonderful. What we had in that apartment in Amsterdam. It was really the best MFM, and it was going to be a great unicorn experience. And then there was going to be the interplay of the girls. And we could have had a little MFM action in there. We could have had a little FFM action. It was going to be so hot, and it just crumbled. They were a really cute couple. They had a really cute energy. And we are actively seeking that now because we see the potential. And it was in our grasp, and it slipped through. There's no question that we're playing it on hard mode. The dynamic that we have where we're doing the double helix of MFMs, interspersed with MFFs, there's no question that it's harder to do that. And when we did this couple play, it did open our eyes to if we could make it work. We are both in NRE at the same time. We don't always have that. I think a lot of people, they want it to be very spaghetti. I think that when we start out, we think spaghetti. But in reality, I still think spaghetti. What is happening is you have two threesomes going on at the same time. Now, I can't say that with a little bit more time, we probably would have retired to that bedroom. And the four of us would have just been in there. There was no room but to be spaghetti. But in the meantime, I was having my MFF, and you were having your MFM. A little bit separate. You were having an MF. What am I talking about? I was having an MF. I was having an MF. Yes. And we were okay with it, which means we have come full circle where limited, limited couple play, feeling like we are the vanilla threesomes. We're not really the vanilla swingers. This makes us feel like we've come full circle and we are actually swingers and we're actually a full swap couple. And it's always been born out of the idea that there's just not enough decent single guys for the MFMs. Right, because at the end of the day, I get so much fantastic female, female energy with all the MFFs. It's amazing. But I do like some extra male attention. And so if I can't find the single males, we're gonna start looking at couples because it's the best of both worlds. So after that, Leo and I decide to go out into the Amsterdam night. We get on our bikes and we ride into the center of town to get what we call yummy goodness. It's a waffle. You talk about waffles with smarties and Nutella, banana. Yes, we're like, I don't need to look trim and fit. You guys left. Let's go eat and have some food. It's the ultimate stoner food, no question. And so we're out at like two in the morning because we are so jet lagged. We sleep late, stay up late. Riding around on our cheap, traditional old Dutch bike. You know, they call them an opa feets and an oma feets. Why no feets means bike in Dutch. So what's oma and opa? Granny bikes. Oh, they are such granny bikes. And it's because bike theft is such a problem in Amsterdam. They have crappy bicycles. And we're out, we're having a great time. Just, I can't even believe that just happened. I don't even know where you're going with this. And in April at Amsterdam, it's pretty damn cold. In the middle of the night, we bike home. We're freezing. We got our heavy jackets on. I've got my hood on and our phone dies. We couldn't find our way home because we rely on Google Maps to help us bike home. The burner phone was giving up the ghost. And we might have been a little bit high while this was all going on. We have to have some fun in Amsterdam because this got really cut short for us. So it turned into an odyssey where for sure they were going to find a couple of Americans frozen underneath a parked car by morning. It was absolutely hilarious. Finally, I think it was like four in the morning. And we're like, we are not going to find our way home. So we're like, we have to find someone out. I'm going to ask them to punch our address in. And I'm going to sit and stare at Google Maps and memorize it to help get us home. Yeah, you were terrible at memorizing it. We kept going, this looks familiar. Wait a minute, we got to go back. We found these two motorcyclists. Honestly, he was really hot. And I told Leo we should have taken him for an MFM. Yeah, Cat was trying to pick up people in the wild by that point. And so Leo sent me because he's like, if I go, they're going to think I'm trying to rob them or something. So I'm going to send little cat like a doe in the woods. Here I go. I still think they thought we were going to rob them. I was sitting about 100 feet away in shadow on a bike. Finally, he shows me the way, right, left, right, left. We still got lost because I suck at directions. But we did make it home. We did not freeze to death. By hook or by crook. And that was our couple play experience in Amsterdam. It really opened our eyes. And I think after that, we were swiping on the apps. Actively looking for couples, which is why when we found Mr. Too Good to be True and he proffers up a Friends with Benefits, Leo. We thought that could work. Yeah, Leo's like, hell yeah, this is the best of both worlds for us. Now we did. We ended up reeling off three really great MFMs in a row, one of them being Italian Edward. Which I still smile about. What do you mean I came in third with a bronce a meadow? It doesn't mean that if we go to Rome again, we would still look him up. I'm just hoping he's cut his hair. That's all. What we also learned on this trip is that we are not club people anymore. We are app-space people. Well, we went to Feta Morgana. We went to Le Chandel. We went to same place. Which by the way, I think is pronounced Le Chandles. Le Chandles. Like what, Chandelier? And we also went to Club Paradise in Amsterdam. And we told you guys, we're going to go like our hairs on fire to all the clubs in Europe. Turns out, I think we're quickly becoming not club people. They're expensive, pricey, and you just don't know who's going to be there. So you're playing what Leo likes to call Swing or Club Roulette. Effectively, you're trying to find a match like musical chairs with the best available. And you don't know who's going to be there. You don't know what the crowd's going to be like. But sometimes it could be a crapshoot. Like our favorite club, Le Chandles. In Paris, we went. We got in with the whole vetted dress code. When we first got there at the door, he looked us up and down and asked if we had a reservation. We said, no, I don't have a reservation. He asked where we were from. We said, California. And I tried to smile and be real flirty. I don't know. Does that help? Let us in. He let us in like he was making an exception. He absolutely did. And I realized the exception was because when we got there, we were one of two couples. And then we're like, what the hell? Reservation? Are you kidding me? And then I guess they have another section of Le Chandles where it's dinner reservations. Kind of like at Scarlet Ranch in Colorado where you can eat dinner ahead of your night at the club. An outcome pouring about 50 couples. Oh my god, it was so packed. It was standing room only. But it also implied that it was a high ticket item to get in to Le Chandel that night. You know what? I'm going to call it Le Chandel. You call it whatever you want. I like mispronouncing it on purpose. And it was prior to this trip our favorite club ever. And Leo and I decided it was not for us. A lot of the couples that came in, they almost presented like age gap couples. We're talking like 20 year age gap. Some of the guys, they could have been 60, 70s and the girls were 30s, 40s. Yeah. And so when we got to the orgy room standing upright with our clothes on, I think there were like half a dozen of the age gap guys standing in the middle. You said they ogled me like with the pants around their ankles. And they said, we've been waiting for you. There wasn't the 30 something, 20 something guy that I would be looking for. And I also know Le Chandel is a very DTF crowd. It's a group orgy bed situation. No question. You feel like you're on an episode of Love Island. Everybody that has been let in, you played your ticket to ride. Leo and I said it's 1230. We decided to go home, get a decent night's sleep because the next day we were flying to Rome to see Edward. And that was going to be our Super Bowl, which actually turned out to be our Playoffs. Well, yeah. I mean, it was a Super Bowl. The warm up. Yeah. So yeah, I think the long and short of it was, is that we were realizing we're probably squarely apps people at this point. And it goes to another point in your lifestyle journey. You should definitely start at the Swinger Clubs because the apps are time consuming, soul crushing. And you might end up quitting before you really get going because it's hard to find the elusive match. Yeah. The apps can be very shallow. They are looks based. They're hard. It can be hard. It can be soul crushing at times. I think you'd want to work your way up to that. But we don't mind playing on that hard mode because we are seeking for just what we're looking for. And then you find what you want. But it also goes to something else, which is in your lifestyle journey. Wherever you are at your point in your lifestyle experience, do what's working best for you. So if you go on a bliss cruise and you play five out of the seven nights, bliss cruise is working for you. Go again. If you throw nothing but house parties where you invite some of your closest friends and that's working for you. Continue doing that. Don't change. If you love clubs and you're a newbie couple and you're exhibitionist and you're a voyeur, if it's working for you, then do that. And be willing to change and try new things if it stops working for you. There's no one size fits all answer. For us right now, the apps is what's working. So much so that we really are loath to go to a lot of the clubs. We went to some of our favorite clubs, Layschendale, Fadam, Uganda. We left without getting naked. We left without playing. And we realized this is a waste of money. So we have to do what's working for us. And for us, it's the apps. Well, you know, one of the other considerations, especially France, it's not quite like this in Holland. I don't know that it's quite like this in Italy. Would you say Budapest? I don't know where you're going with this. We're talking about the nonverbal consent. It is much more DTF. It's much more intentional with the nonverbal consent. Which is great if you don't really mind a hands of hands. A mouth is a mouth. Well, when you're early on in your lifestyle journey, every touch of a stranger feels electric. It feels exciting. We had a 7-some, one of our first times to Layschendale. Seven people, we were soft. So we would be going soft swap, but we're all entangled in it was fantastic. And I couldn't imagine doing that today, having been back to Layschendale. When you start out in your lifestyle journey, you have very few preferences. Everything seems so exciting and new, but the further you go, the more solidified your preferences become. You know what you like and you know what you don't like. And I think also with us saying, what works for you works for you. If you go to a club a couple of times and it's not working for you, it's probably not gonna work for you. You need to go then try something else. It could be you're not finding the matches in the club that you're hoping for and the value proposition isn't there for $150 night. Or for some people, they might feel like they're getting aged out. It happens in the lifestyle. At some point, clubs are not gonna be fertile grounds. Now one thing that was really interesting, we had the Katlendia sexcation. It was such a sexcation. It was so good. I'm so happy. When we came back, we were jet lagged, like we just got run over by a truck. Which is ridiculous, because we'd stayed up all night and we'd done a little bit of sleeping on our 10 hour flight. We should have been on the right time, but damn, we were like sleeping 12 hours a night. I think they say when you're going back East to West. Chasing the sun. Yeah, it is. For every hour of jet lag, you need a day to reset. We haven't been back nine days yet and it was a nine hour time difference. But with that backdrop, I'm feeling totally jet lagged. And wrecked. I hit a moment when we came back where I started having a bit of a come down. Well, that's also, you have to remember, Europe started as we were gonna go with little baddie. So there was the bad bunny breakup and that cute little bed in Amsterdam with the red lights was meant for us and baddie. Yeah, she should have been middle spoon. First couple of days we talked about, aw, she would have loved this. But you know, we talked about that LA was gonna be a new chapter. And not only little baddie, but also LA woman, when both of those things blew up in our face, got burned to the ground, I'm not sure how soon we'll be back to LA. We'd probably sooner be back to Europe than we would LA. No question about it. I mean, if we can just manage it. We're thinking always on the shoulder months, April, October, it's cheaper. We can manage getting away. And it's so much more bang for our buck for us, Europe works. So we're not gonna go on bliss. We're gonna go to Europe. But when we got back, I had that let down. Well, I was also sexting some new people in fantasy mode and you didn't really like that. Yeah, you and I had to have a discussion because you jumped right back on the apps and you were starting to look in fantasy for guys to start sexting. And I was feeling for the moment, I think that once Europe was done, I realized it's in the books, it's over. And we gotta go back to the drawing board. And it was largely a trip for you. Well deserved, no question, long overdue. I'm so glad it happened. Do you sound like sour grapes over there? No, but I think it goes to something. Just being honest. You've never seen a video of somebody who gets knocked out. And when they hit the ground, they've got their arms in front of them in sort of a defensive posture. They call that the cerebrate posture. It's like the body's involuntary. Defensive reaction? Rigid posture, arms out, the legs stiffen. And so that's what you were exhibiting when we got back post three MFMs, I'm trying to sex new people. I think that the id has a tendency to do some deserbrate posturing. Oftentimes when we have a run of MFS, we could be five minutes away from meeting somebody downstairs and you'll come over to me and you'll show me a guy on field that you're in the middle of sexting and ask me what my opinion is. I think that's your id in a deserbrate posture. Yeah, you've decided that is a total reactionary thing. It's almost- It's a defensive mechanism. Something I can't even control. It just happens kind of automatically. The id says, what about me? That greedy little child is saying, but what about mytha? It's involuntary. Even though we should probably have half a dozen Katlandia sexcations in a row. Oh, you're so sweet. I threw a couple play in there for you, honey. But when I got back, I immediately went into that deserbrate posturing wondering what's next ahead. And you would not have felt that way if our couple play had gone to full swap fruition. No question. It felt like it was so cut short. You're like, oh my God, it fell through my grasp. And it just felt so incomplete. Fortunately, my id didn't have to wait long. No. We're gonna see Bufa. And we're gonna see Tatiana. Tatiana, and she's gonna tie me to a tree. And then she's gonna leave me to fend for myself. She are gonna leave you. Oh, I love it. I don't have a problem with that, guys. I think that that's just one of the occupational hazards. I'm having sexy fun. I love it. So you're feeling a lot better. I am definitely feeling better. But I think that also goes to the whole reason we're talking about this podcast is the idea of couples, there's no question we've been planning on hard mode. We have to alternate your id, my id. And it's never easy. You never feel like it's enough. Like I should feel like I had three in a row and that's enough. And I do, but at the end of the day, I still want more, which is why I was sexting new people. I was like, but my guys aren't writing me anymore. And I'd like some of that dopamine in my phone. You can say compersion all you want, but deep down there is a greedy little id. And it is just dying to get out. But that means that oftentimes you or I have to be patient because with an MFF, there's no question. It's 60, 40 me with the MFM, it's probably 70, 30 you. Unless we see Tatiana, she's probably gonna strap you to the tree as well. It's s***. And so therefore it's 50, 50. We're gonna have some explaining to do. I have a lot more experience with going at it and being in a desert, which you have very limited experience. And so over time, you're gonna get used to not feeling a lot of that de-cerebrate posturing. You're gonna be able to just be a little more patient. So couple play. Couple play. We are down. I think we're going to explore some of that. And I think the California country couple has already asked what we're doing this weekend. So we might be sitting around with Mason jars. On some dirt bikes. Yee-haw! Yee-haw! Ha-ha! So if you liked what you heard, go ahead and either subscribe or, I didn't know how that works. Oh yeah, just come and listen. We might post once a week. We might post a couple times a month. I don't know. We might get bored and stop doing it. So you better come and listen while it's still going. Otherwise we'll lose interest. Tell us how much you like it. Yeah. Leave a comment. That'd be cool. We love it. We're gonna leave a comment. I don't know. Maybe we'll also comment. We don't have a website yet. Okay.