829 Packing Light; Sweden Beyond Stockholm; Check-In

If you get nervous about what to take with you on vacation, you're not alone. Packing anxiety is a real thing and even I struggle with it. Coming up, we'll get time honored tips from a frequent traveler for flying with just one regulation sized carry on suitcase. The three L's are my secret for packing light and they are layering, lists and laundry. Tour guides from Sweden reveal what kinds of adventures they enjoy most in their country. Sailing between islands to summer festivals and parties, that's high on the list. We are boat lovers as Scandinavians, but we also love our seafood. Jumping from boat to boat, sharing your food, swimming together and it's a brilliant way to have a community. Plus listeners share highlights from their recent European travels with advice to help you experience the places you want to visit. We're here each week to get you ready for memorable adventures so stick around for the hour ahead. Travel with Rick Steves. You could call Stockholm the grandest capital in all of Scandinavia, but for a country as big as California, there is a lot more to explore in Sweden. Coming up, a pair of sibling tour guides recommend their favorite ways to get away into the Swedish countryside and our Travel with Rick Steves listeners report in on their travels to Europe to encourage the rest of us to make good plans also. We start with packing light so you're ready to fly comfortably and efficiently without lugging around too much baggage. I always say that when you travel to Europe you tend to meet two kinds of travelers, those who pack light and those who wish they pack light. I mean think about it, have you ever met anyone who after five trips brags each year I pack heavier? Of course not, with experience you get serious about packing light. Now packing light isn't just about saving time or avoiding fees, it's about shaping the kind of travel experience you want to have. And today I'm joined by someone who understands that as well as anybody I know. Every year Lisa Friend lives out of a single carry-on bag for about two months while leading tours across Europe. She's nearly as passionate about traveling light as I am and she'll be the first to tell you that packing smart is a skill and a mindset. She joins us now to share her favorite strategies, lessons learned and savvy tricks for embracing the carry-on lifestyle. Lisa, thanks so much for being here. Thanks for having me Rick, I'm happy to be here today. You know it's fun to just think of how we learn because of our experience on the road to pack light and we all know how to pack light or at least the importance of packing light. But I find that a lot of people are creative warriors, they're sort of anxiety stricken as they plan their trip and they end up packing more than what they need. Yeah, packing anxiety is a real thing and even I struggle with it which is why I make lists and we'll talk about that a little bit more. But packing anxiety because people are going into the unknown, they don't know what they're going to need and so they tend to over pack and they pack for a worst case scenario or just in case scenario. Yeah, I like that idea of packing for the best case scenario and then if you need something you have an excuse to go shopping. Absolutely, I've had some wonderful conversations with young women and German drugsters trying to figure out what's the hair conditioner. Lisa, it's kind of a self-imposed limit that those of us who are serious about packing light put on ourselves. We want to have it fit in the bag that gets where you don't have to check it at the airport. Yeah, absolutely. It's easier with a soft-sided bag which I know is your preference. I tend to go with more of a wheeled bag but 9x14x22 and just a smidge less than that, that's what you need to bring, that's what you need to prepare for and that's what's going to get you packing light. And that is an interesting issue because you do have to make a choice when you choose your bag. You can have a hard-sided bag, you can have a squishy bag like a big pillowcase almost, you can have a bag with two wheels or four wheels or you can have a bag that hangs on your back and converts into a suitcase you carry without wheels. Most people like a wheelie bag, two wheels or four wheels. I still carry mine on my back. Someday I'll be dragging it on the wheels too. I can see the value of that and a lot of people who are perfectly able to carry it in the back still like to carry it with the wheels. When you go with wheels, you have to choose two or four. What's your favorite? I go with two because I'm really concentrating on the part of my trip that's not in the airport. Four wheels is great at the airport, it's great for rolling on the plane but it's not great on cobblestones and public transportation. You know the cobblestone issue and being able to get it off and on the bus or off and on the public transportation, that is more important than just the ease in the airport. I would vote for two wheels also. I have no credibility when it comes to packing light with women. That's why I'm so excited that you're with us today. I always say there's no excuse. Two weeks, two months, rich, poor, north, south, man, woman, you need to pack light. You need to be mobile. That's the mark of a good traveler. But what is the difference for men and women when it comes to packing light? Can women do it as well as men? Women can do it better than men, Rick. There you go, that's the answer I wanted. So tell the women who are listening now who go, yeah, Rick, I know you can pack light because you're a guy. Stick up for women and how important it is for women to be packing light and how that's a realistic goal also. Well I can talk about the challenges that women face that men don't face. There may be one of them is shoes. The other would be toiletries and maybe medicine. So I'll tell you right there, shoes is a big deal. Toiletries and medicine doesn't add up to a heck of a lot. If you've got a value of taking small containers and that sort of thing, but shoes are a big part, right? You've never packed for three months worth of tampons. Three months worth of tampons. I would say, hey, after one month of tampons, I'm going shopping. Is that realistic? No, that is not realistic. Oh, so you have to take the whole trip with you. It is far easier and wiser to take what you like as a brand, as a product and bring it with you. This is why we're talking about packing for women right now. Okay, so educate me. How does a woman pack in a carry-in-the-air please? What are the challenges? What are the best tips? Okay, so for shoes, you really only need two pairs of shoes. You need a good pair of walking shoes, which I've often gone with like a leather Mary Jane, so it's dressy, but it's comfortable. Marilyn Keen make good ones. And then I go with a sandal, but a good walking sandal that feels a little bit dressy to me. There are a lot of them out there now, but Dansco's always made a good one. Timberland makes more chic ones, but those two shoes I can get by with all the time. So tell how you can toggle from one shoe to the other and suddenly be dressed for a different occasion. Yeah, and sneakers are a completely different animal than they were when maybe you and I started traveling and nobody wanted to wear big white sneakers because that would label you as an American. And now you have all these chic, cute sneakers that are great for your feet, but also can be dressed up and down. And you can wear them daytime and then just change out your jewelry and a scarf and maybe into your nicer sandals, and then you've got a great nighttime outfit. This is travel with Rick Steves. We're talking with Lisa Friend right now and she's logged more than 50 trips to Europe since her first time to Germany back in 1993. And she's perfected the art of living out of a carry-on, the airplane size bag. When Lisa's not on the road, she shares her packing wisdom on YouTube and helps travelers plan their European itineraries. You can find her one hour talk on packinglightatricksteves.com. I love your use of the toiletries kit as a little device to hang on the seat in the airplane. Tell us about that. That is my number one trick for making life on the airplane bearable. Because I've got the same toiletries kit. You unzip it and you can hang it and it's got two parts and it's got zippered compartments and you've got all your toiletries stuff in it. But you use it in a way totally different. I do. And this came from actually dropping things on the airplane and you can't drop something on an airplane in coach where you and I both fly. You can't drop it in coach and reach down and get it without invading your seatmate's space. So I don't want to do that. And I realized that in a lot of planes that the seat back pocket has Velcro on the bottom. So you can actually put your $1,000 phone in the seat back pocket and have it fall out the end. So I use the toiletries kit as something that hangs in front of me and it has my glasses, my contact lenses, anything I need for the flight. Tissues, lip gloss, eye drops. It's perfect. It's so smart. And I got to say I'm not germaphobic but I'm really concerned about the filthiness of those pouches on the back of the airplane seat. I mean there's all sorts of gunk in there and I don't think they clean it up between passengers. No and that's where people put their sick bags and their used tissues. I don't want to put my laptop in there. I don't want to put my glasses in there. I don't want to put my water bottle in there. So you've got it hanging there on your toiletries kit. Quite clever. And I keep a hand sanitizer and wipes in there so I can wipe down my tray table. And you've got a concept called the junk drawer. I mean I've got a junk drawer at home and I've got to admit I take a Ziploc baggie for my junk drawer. You've got a little bigger junk drawer. It's sort of one of those packing cubes. Yeah, I use a two-sided packing cube and it's just everything that I need that doesn't fit into the toiletries. So my makeup is in there, my jewelry is in there, things that I need for work like binder clips to clip the drapes together in your hotel room. I love how you rip up your guidebooks. Yeah, guidebooks are a big important tool with a lot of information and I don't want to leave them behind in my hotel room, which I see people do because they're too heavy. So I just take the chapter and stuff it in my little day bag and it goes with me everywhere. And when I leave... And you let binder clip to hold it together. A lot of women are concerned about a blow dryer after they've taken a shower. I don't ever bring a blow dryer. You don't. Are you nervous that your hair will be wet? No, I'm not worried about it because every hotel that I stay in is going to have a hair dryer or there will be one at the front desk that I can ask for. And the hair dryer is the number one thing that blows out sockets in Europe. I've seen it many times. Lisa, let's talk about a couple of last things. First of all, wrinkles. Wrinkles. Wrinkles is actually more of a concern for you because you wear those nice shirts on TV, but I just roll my luggage and everything I have has to pass the wrinkle test so that my body heat will smooth out the wrinkles. So the choice of fabric matters? The choice of fabric matters, absolutely. I've noticed that with my wardrobe on the road. Some things they look great. Other things are hopeless and you can always iron it in your room, but it sure is nice not to. And it's also a reminder to put it on with a few wrinkles and half an hour later, they all just took off. Patterns help with that a lot too. Patterns hide wrinkles and stains. Or some fabrics that are supposed to be wrinkled. Yes. Like my linen in that regard. Tell me a little bit about packing cubes. Packing cubes are a wonderful way to stay organized. They're also a great way to be able to unpack your suitcase if you're just there for one or two nights, but keep things organized. Keep things together. So you just pull them out and you have to have the ones that are see-through at least on top so you can visually identify what's in that cube. But I don't actually pack all of my clothes in them. I use packing cubes to corral my smaller stuff. So I've got one that's socks, underwear, bras, swimsuit. That's one packing cube. And another one is my junk drawer and all my extra stuff. And then all of my tops and bottoms are all in the bottom of my suitcase rolled. So I only use the packing cubes for smaller things, but that's a personal thing. Some people like to put everything in a cube. But you see some people, they unzip their bag and it's like a jack in the box. Everything is all over the place. And if they have packing cubes, it really looks ship-shape. That's very helpful and it helps you also pack lighter. Okay, Lisa. I know that you have something called the three L's. We're out of time now, but can you just give me a very quick review of what are the three L's and why do they matter? The three L's are my secret for packing light. They are layering, lists, and laundry. Whether I'm going for 14 days or 44 days like I did last fall, I have one week's worth of clothes and I go to the laundromat once a week or have my hotel do it. The lists keep me organized and the layers help me pack for any kind of weather. So I've got a raincoat, a warmth fleece, and then long and short sleeve shirts. And I can dress those up and down, layer them up and down exactly to deal with any kind of weather. One last question. What do you leave behind? I leave behind my purse. I keep everything in a combination of my day bag and my money belt that's under my clothes next to my underpants. It's a religion. I do not leave home without it. Lisa, you've gained so much from your experience in travel. I love how you're always thinking about learning from your experience and how you can make it better for travelers. You've got a whole section in your talk about traveling as a family. Learn from your own experience of traveling with your kids and your family. Lisa, thanks so much and happy traveling light. Thanks Rick. Thanks for having me. I said in these shoes, no way Jose. Lisa Friend demonstrates how she packs for a month long trip in one carry-on suitcase in a video presentation that we've posted to YouTube. You'll find a link to it with this week's show at ricksteves.com. A brother-sister team of tour guides from Sweden recommend how to get away into nature in the Swedish countryside, well beyond Big City Stockholm. That's where we're going next on Travel with Rick Steves. Sweden is the largest of the Scandinavian countries and I must admit it has the grandest capital of the north. Don't let Stockholm blind you to the variety of experiences the rest of Sweden has to offer. It's a nation of forested land, island chains, historic castles, glasswork tours and exceptional museums. To help us get to know Sweden beyond Stockholm, we're joined right now on Travel with Rick Steves by two Swedish tour guides who also happen to be brother and sister. Igor De Silva and Gabriela Ilvesdottor. Gabi Igor, thanks for being here. Thank you for having us. This is so much fun. I agree and I get to talk about something that I've always wanted to talk about with two Swedish guides. But first of all, I'm curious about your names. Igor. I didn't think Igor would be the name of a Swedish person. Is that a popular name in Sweden? It's not. It's actually a Russian name. And long story short, my biological father is a Brazilian and Igor is a very popular name in Brazil and that's strange but it is. Just a couple of months ago, I had a guide named Igor in Venice in Italy and he said, well, there's a lot of people move around and it's kind of multicultural in the naming. And Gabi, what about the Scandinavian way of naming the daughter? We have Johnson and Peterson and so on and now you are Ilvesdottor. Exactly. And the reason you have Johnson and Peterson is because of the Scandinavians that emigrated and they brought those names with them because like they still do in Iceland, if you had a family of a mother and a father with their own names and then you had a boy and a girl, a son and a daughter, traditionally the father's first name would be the first part of their surname so let's say John and then the boy would be Johnson and the daughter would be John's daughter. And it was decided around the 1800s that we should have one name per family. And a family of four with four different surnames, that's chaos. So they told people, choose a name and since we live in a man's world, often the fathers decided, okay, my father was Johnson, I'm Johnson, my whole family would be Johnson even though I have three daughters. And that's why we have so many girls, so many daughters who are called Anderson and Peterson and Johnson. But in your family it's... We decided that we will have enough of this. Now we want to change the world. So Hockhahn agreed with this, your father. He didn't have a say. He was outvoted by the women. Exactly. Because I know and love your father, Hockhahn. Now I have even higher esteem of your daddy. Okay, let's get on to the topic here. Stockholm dominates travelers' dreams of Sweden. I love Stockholm but let's venture beyond. Now I know there's plenty of places in Denmark outside of Copenhagen that are quite famous. Plenty of places in Norway outside of Oslo that are quite famous. But I think Sweden and the neighboring country Finland, that's a little more of a secret and a challenge. First of all, when Swedes vacation, let's say people from the big city Stockholm, they take a vacation in their own country, where are they likely to go? I would say that we take a sailboat and then we go out to the archipelago. The Stockholm archipelago is very soft and forestry. But if you go to the west coast, you will see something totally different. The archipelago is dramatic, it's salty, it's windy. And this is the coast facing Denmark. The coast facing Norway. The coast facing Norway. Okay, so if you take the boat from Copenhagen to Oslo, you will sail right up that then. Exactly. Yeah. Okay, so rugged west coast. Interesting. Gabi. Well, Igor is completely right. So for instance, our mother, she always went to the west coast when she was growing out, not only to sail because we are boat lovers as Scandinavians, but we also love our seafood and the west coast shrimp sandwich is famous, but mussels, oysters. Just recently, the oysters from a town on the west coast called Grebestad. They got EU protection. So that's the thing. Now a Grebestad oyster is just as valuable as Parmesan from Parmesan. What's the name of that oyster, especially? Grebestad. Okay. Greb G-R-E-B-B-E, stad. Do I remember a festival, a very enthusiastic festival in Sweden where everybody is eating little shrimp or little... Yes. What is that? That's what's called kräfthviva. It's our kräfisk. Kräfisk. That is the kräfisk. Andra, that's something else. So that would be just a way to embrace that. I wonder if you're in the countryside, do you find a different flavor of the traditional culture than in the big city? How is it different from Stockholm to a small town on the west coast or something? It's absolutely different. So in the small town, like in many countries, I would say, community is much more important. So for instance, when you go to a kräfisk party, they're not as common in Stockholm as they would be in a small town because you sit at a long table, always outdoors. And this is of course something that is hard to do if you live in a big city because the kräfisk is very smelly. So you don't want to, no one wants to have that in their living room with the juices on their carpet smelling for months. So we go to the countryside, the village. The cities are empty for these festivities. And the same thing goes for another festivity that we have that is the surströmming, which is the fermented herring. This is very popular in northern Sweden. They put the herring in barrels that they let rot and ferment for three months before they open it up. You can imagine the odors, the stench. Fishy heaven for a good swede Viking. Exactly. Delicious. So we love it. It's very peculiar, but it's a very small town thing. Small town. OK, so there is a benefit if you're traveling and trying to understand Sweden to connect with the small town. This is Travel with Rick Steves. We're talking with our two Swedish tour guides, brother and sister team here, Igor da Silva and Gabriela Ilvesdottor. They both lead Americans all across Scandinavia. Now if you're staying in Stockholm, as most people probably would, there's a number of very nice day trips you can make that get you out of the city. Igor, what can you tell me about Sigtuna and Uppsala? Uppsala, I would say, is like our Oxford. It's our university city. So the oldest university in northern Europe is in Uppsala. It's from the 1500s. And we also have northern Europe's biggest cathedral, the Uppsala-Dum-Syrke. And why would a town outside of the big city have the biggest cathedral? Because that was the capital. The historic capital. Exactly. Uppsala. Uppsala. And it's worth a visit. But your father took me to one of the most memorable places nearby and it's called Old Uppsala, right? Gamla Uppsala. Gamla Uppsala, exactly. And what would you see if you were taking a group to Gamla, Old Uppsala, not the biggest church during the Christian time, but long before that? We have these prehistoric burial mounds that are amazing. And these predates the Vikings. We're talking Bronze Age and they are amazing. They're really fantastic. Wow. And nearby on your day trip out of the capital city of Stockholm, you can stop by Sigtuna, which is, it must be one of the oldest towns in Sweden. It is. And it is usually referred to as the first capital because in the beginning the king moved. We didn't really have a capital. So Uppsala is sometimes referred to as a capital because it was the king's seat for a while. But Sigtuna is usually the one we say was the first capital of Sweden. And we have these beautiful ruins. It's a really, really cozy city. I would say it's a must. If you're venturing outside of Stockholm, Sigtuna is a must. There you get a compliment because it's a little town, a beautiful, charming, fairy tale town. Exactly. And Igor, it has runestones. Yes. What's the big deal? Runestone. What is that? The runestones, first of all, it's how the Vikings wrote. So we didn't have letters. So it was the Viking letter. And the runestones, they told a story. And usually it could be very ordinary stories. It could say that Rick traveled to Norway for Viking because Viking is a thing you did. It's not a thing you are. So Viking means the week is bay. You go from bay to bay. So Viking is something you do. It's a verb. It's a verb. So we've talked about day trips from Stockholm. And you mentioned briefly, Igor, the archipelago, which is just so beautiful. If you like boats and islands and little cabins, that's a delight. Let's talk about further afield. We've got the center of the country. Very traditional. When you think of, you want to get the most traditional small town slice of Sweden. What's the region that's famous for that? Dalarna, which has the famous Dalar horse. If you have seen a wooden red painted horse with some floral patterns on it, you've seen the Dalar horse. And that is absolutely a very traditional part of Sweden. So you can go there if you want that. It's almost iconic for that region. It's more traditional. You can see the Open Air Folk Museum in Skansen in Stockholm if you want to. But to see the Open Air Folk Museum real life, you could go to Dalarna. Exactly. And that is where we have a town called Falun, which is a very important town to us. We have a Swedish delicacy, a sausage that comes from that place. It's called Falukorv, a Corvus sausage. We even have the red paint. We talked about these cottages, the typical red paint we paint our barns and our wooden homes with is called Falurred. So red from Falun and Falun is this town in the province of Dalarna. When you drive through Sweden, you think whoever is selling the red paint around here has a good business because there's a lot of red paint. I remember one staying in a humble guest house with red paint in Vekshu in the middle where people go to trace their Swedish ancestry. And the people who ran that guest house had an immigrants cottage that they rented. Do you know about this? Is this a thing, an immigrants cottage? It is. And there is even in Vekshu, there is even a museum that helps people, especially Americans, that want to research their ancestry and they help them find all of these different kinds of documents and papers to try to help them. Because this region was so poor, you can measure the amount of people emigrating to leaving by how poor an area was. Exactly. I mean, the center of Sweden was one of the poorest areas and it had one of the highest percentages of emigration coming to a great extent to the United States. But sometimes they just abandoned their cottage and now you can go into the middle of these vast forests and hang out in these very, very humble cottages. Yes. The area of Småland, really the farmers there struggled because the ground is so stony. So there was hard for them to make anything grow and the lack of food and the poverty well made them move. The same reason people are moving today to find a better life somewhere else. This is Travel with Rick Steves. We're talking with Igor De Silva and Gabriela Ilves-Taktur. They're two guides from Sweden and they're talking about where you might go in Sweden outside of the obvious first stop, which would be the capital city in the dominant city, Stockholm. So Sweden is a huge country. I think it's much bigger than Norway and Denmark, especially in square miles. And Igor, I understand you like to hike in the north. Yes, I do. Yes, I do. This is Lapland, right? This is Lapland. So about as a traveler what I might enjoy in Lapland. So first of all, nature is very accessible. We have something called Allemandsrätten. It's the law of public rights to use the nature. So every swede can use the nature even if it's private land. Allemandsrätten? Allemandsrätten, exactly. So everybody can walk anywhere. You can sleep out if you're polite. Exactly. We only need to respect nature, leave no trace. And this works? And it works. And we love it. So when you're hiking, tell me a little bit about the nature that you would encounter in Lapland. Oh, it's so beautiful. So imagine it's a little bit like Alaska, I would say. It's Lapland. It's mountains and no trees and vast landscape. And you walk and walk and walk and you see no people. No trees. You mean you're above the tree line? We are above the tree line. All right. And we walk, usually, me and my friends, we walk on the King's Trail. It's 440 kilometers, 270 miles long. And a day apart, we have cabins that the Swedish Tourist Association take care of. It's very simple, modest, but we go from cabin to cabin. And we meet other people there. We have dinner, we cook. Great. And it's very easy. Okay. I'm a tourist. Yeah. Do you see the aurora borealis? Do you see the northern lights? Do you see reindeer? And do you encounter lap culture? Not during summer, but what you will see is the midnight sun. And this messes up your perspective of time. But in a good way. Imagine hiking 11 p.m. and you see the sun. I love it. I love it. And the reindeer? And the reindeer you see. Sometimes you see more reindeer than the people. Yeah. Yes. And during... Sami culture. And Sami culture, of course. And during winter, it's the best place, one of the best places in the world to see aurora borealis. Sami people were historically nomadic, right? Yes. And now they have to stay put or do they still... They stay put. They don't roam as they used to because... That's a difficult adjustment. It is. But they have a lot of help with technology now. So they have their snowmobiles, they have drones to follow the reindeer, so they don't need to... Does the government help them or are they a problem for the government? They help them, but there is a lot of difficulties. And we need to put up windmills and stuff and we are putting it on their land and they don't like it because it scares the reindeer away. And this is a hard question because we need green energy. Every country has these problems. We don't have windmills scaring away reindeer in our country, but every country has something similar like that. And when we travel, we appreciate that. Gabby, a couple of things I wanted to talk about before we finish. The glass works. They're so beautiful for the tourists to see in the middle of Sweden. And then the city of Kalmar. Ah, two fantastic things. So in this province of Småland, where so many Swedes emigrated to America, where they came from, this is what we call glass country. And they have just beautiful glass being made. So you can go and visit these places. Costa Buda is one of these famous manufacturers of fantastic glass. And it has become one of the iconic Swedish symbols almost. And they still welcome tourists to visit. Oh, they're still welcome people. You see a demonstration, you see the gallery and maybe you spend some money. And you can go there and even try to blow your own glass, which is amazing. It's a lot of fun. So you can study that in the middle. It's just the glass works. And then Kalmar, what an amazing city with a great maritime heritage and a wonderful castle. It is and a fantastic history. So Kalmar is referred to as the key to Sweden. So for a long time, the Swedish Danish border was just 10 miles south of Kalmar. One or the little bit more. The Danes took half of Sweden at one time. Those Danes. Those Danes, I know those pesky Danes. They bug the Norwegians too, you know. I know, I know. So yes, exactly. And this one of the places with a lot of history, a lot of battles. We have this fantastic castle located there to defend our border. One of the best castles in all of Europe. Absolutely. Kalmar Castle, K-A-L-M-A-R. Yeah. One of my one of my magic moments is about a 15, 20 minute drive, I think from Kalmar. Holland. And in Holland, I meant a Viking burial ground. Stones, the shape of a Viking ship sticking out of the dirt. Yeah. And standing in the middle of this circle of stones, thinking about a Viking burial ceremony. Imagine. Oh, so cool. So cool. I want to finish just with a magic moment that you guys might have. Igor, I know you're a sailor. Yes. Take me on a moment in the wonderful archipelago that seems to go halfway to Vinland from Stockholm. You know, all hours you can sail to the east of Stockholm. Yeah, for me, there's nothing better than this world to be in a sailboat with your friends, just sailing, relaxing, and then you go to nature harbor. And you don't pay anything. And there's other boats. And you connect them with total strangers. And you go jumping from boat to boat, sharing your food, swimming together. And it's a brilliant way to have a community. And I love it. It's the best thing in the world. Crayfish. Crayfish, oyster, shrimp. What would you be drinking? We're drinking... Burning wine, of course. Burning wine. Yes. What is burning wine? So burning wine is our liquor, made from potato, of course. So it's very strong. What is the Swedish name for that? Berrenvin. Berrenvin. But literally burning wine. Literally burning wine. Wow. Okay, Gabby, what is your magic moment that we can finish with? Oh, what I really love to do is actually also hiking. So to go to mountaintops and just look at the world from above. I am a city girl, though. So I do love Stockholm, of course. But when I leave Stockholm, my thing is to hike up mountains or in wintertime, ski them. We have lovely, lovely skiing. And not that far from Stockholm, which is the great thing. It's just a couple of hours north and you have this amazing nature. You guys, thank you so much for inspiring us to look a little bit beyond the capital when we're going to have time to visit your country, Sweden. Two syntax. Two syntax. Okay. You'll find more to help with planning a trip to Sweden with our show notes this week at ricksteves.com slash radio. You know, it's been a while since we've talked to listeners like you about your travels, to share memories, and to help us get ready for our own adventures. Let's do that next at 877-333-7425. It's travel with Rick Steves. So where have you been traveling lately? We're opening our Travel with Rick Steves phone lines right now at 877-333-RICK to check in with listeners like you. Tell us what's made your travel special and where you recommend visiting so that we can all share in the adventure. Anne is using that number right now from Bloomington, Indiana. Anne, thanks for your call. Good to be with you. Thank you. Yeah, where have you been traveling lately? So I have been to Zeeland, especially Middleburg in the Netherlands. And what did you find there? I was actually there because they have an Institute of American Studies there because the Roosevelt family are Roosevelt, Franklin and Teddy Roosevelt are from that part of the Netherlands. So is there partly for work and then partly for travel? Now where exactly is Zeeland? Because I know Holland is the core of the Netherlands. The Netherlands is a whole bunch of provinces, right? And when a lot of people confuse the Netherlands and Holland, but calling the Netherlands Holland is like calling America Texas, I would say. That is about true. So Zeeland Province is the furthest south and furthest west province of the Netherlands. And it is made up of essentially three, what would be islands if it weren't for the fact that the Dutch are always moving the water away. Okay, so that's down on the coast next to Belgium? Correct. All right. I didn't realize the Roosevelt's had Dutch heritage. Yep, that's the part of the Netherlands they were from. And the Zeelanders are very proud of that. You know, the Netherlands is very popular and Amsterdam is super popular. And it's pretty predictable when you go to Amsterdam what you do as an American tourist in the countryside. Not many people go to Zeeland compared to just doing the touristy must-see stops in Holland. Yes. And I think a lot of Americans would very much enjoy if they went to Zeeland. It's set up very much for tourists. But the most, the tourists who go there are Germans, primarily. So everything is well set up to be a tourist, but it's just not that many Americans who go. And one of the most wonderful things about Zeeland is that most of the time you're only a few minutes from a beach. When you say, and when you say it's set up for tourists, what do you mean set up for tourists? So I mean, there's, well, there's not very many big hotels, but there's lots of places to stay. So it's very easy to find accommodation. And then they have really wonderful restaurants. And then it's quite easy to get around. I've never, I have to say, driven there, but I went only by train and bus and it's quite easy to get and by bicycle, of course, the Zeeland survey. I would say that for a visitor to the Netherlands, it's easier by public transportation than any place in Europe. A car is nice to have, but you don't need a car in the Netherlands. Distances are short, train lines are amazing. If the trains don't go there, bus lines go there, which are coordinated with the nearest train station. And of course, you can rent a bike at or near any train station almost and pedal to where you like. And then you take part of that wonderful dual network of roads, one for cars and one for bikes. Exactly. I've never tried to have a car in the Netherlands and I've never missed it one bit. Have you biked? I have, yes. Tell us what that's like. First of all, it is all flat, so it is easy to do. And as you say, it's quite simple to always find a bicycle. Many places in Zeeland, if you rent a small house or an apartment, the bicycles will come with it. It is, however, a little bit of a contact sport. You really have to know how to do it because people in the Netherlands take their biking very seriously. And they will know if you're a foreigner because likely you'll wear a helmet and none of them wear their helmets. Yeah, you nailed it. They take their biking seriously. I think it's a coming of age thing for a Dutch kid when they're 16 or whatever. They take this test and to have your license to be fully legal on the roads with two wheels, you have to know the rules of the road just as much as car drivers in our country. Exactly. But fortunately, tourists don't need to take the test and we can just hop on a bike. Yeah, that's right. And it's a delightful way to enjoy the Netherlands. And thanks so much for reminding us there's more to the Netherlands than Holland and Amsterdam. Well, it's my pleasure. Take care. Bye bye. Bye bye. Petricks on the Line in Palm City, Florida. Petricks, thanks for your call. Oh, you're welcome Rick. Where are you traveling? What are you thinking about? Well, we went back to France for the first time in like 20 years. We've been there many, many times. We had a really great time. We went to a few places we'd never been before. We went to Dijon. We went to Bordeaux. And we went to a little town to visit friends up in the Pyrenees called Foix. Huh. How did you like the Pyrenees, Patrick? The Pyrenees was really good. It was in like an ancient town. There was a church there that was half Romanesque, half Gothic. And also while we were there, they had the Stet de Musique, which is a music festival. They have all over France. And so you would just walk around the town and there were people playing music everywhere. So that was really good. Patrick, did you know about that festival or did you just bump into it as you were in Foix? Yeah, we bumped into it. My best festival experiences I've got to admit have been just, hey, there's a party going on. And then it's serendipity. And when serendipity knocks, you say, come on in. Yeah, that was that. And also when we, we wanted to go to Bordeaux because we heard there was a good restaurant. So we said, we'll have a couple of days there. And when we got there, they said it was the Fête de Vendres wine festival. Wow. And I was like, well, we lucked out. We got to Bordeaux at the right time. A wine festival in Bordeaux. Well, you know, the two things. First of all, you were going to places that are not so much on everybody's bucket list. So you were steering away from the crowds that are plaguing so many travelers. If you just went to Paris and the Loire Valley and the Riviera, you'd have a different crowd scene. So that's a great thing. And then you were flexible enough to jump at the opportunity to enjoy these festivals that you just stumbled into with a little bit of good luck. And when you go to the towns that are not so famous for tourists, I think you find a lot of people at the festivals are locals, either from that town or from that region, a family day out or whatever. And a great way to celebrate the local culture, like a wine festival in Bordeaux. I can't imagine anything more tasty. You have the market there was also really good, really good food. We had oysters and different things with duck was really good there. You know, in France, Patrick markets are like festivals in themselves, aren't they? Yeah, no, I enjoyed that as much as just about anything was the morning walking around the market in Bordeaux. You know, thinking of those festivals, those were small festivals that you visited that are not on the international map. And then there are the big festivals, you know, the running of the bowls and Pompelona just over the border from where you were in southern France and Carnival in Germany or Carnival in Italy. There's so many big festivals. We had so much fun a few years ago putting together a one hour special on public television, just celebrating the greatest festivals in Europe. And if anybody's planning a trip to Europe, you might want to check that out. Every show we've ever made is available. You can just go to my website at ricksteves.com and watch any of those shows. But the one hour special on Europe's festivals could get you in the mood and let you know how fun it is to hit a, you know, an April fair in Andalusia or a fall harvest time festival like October Fest. Europe just comes alive when you hit a festival, doesn't it? Oh yeah, that's, that was a big treat for us. Yeah. That was really amazing. Hey, Patrick, thanks so much for your call and enjoy your future travels. Oh, well, thank you, Rick as well. Take care. Bye. This is Travel with Rick Steves. We're checking in with our travelers today and you can email us or call us. We're at radio at ricksteves.com and our phone number is 877-333-745. And Dylan's calling in from Vancouver in Washington. Hey, Dylan. Hey, Rick. Thanks for calling. You're welcome. Hey, I thought I'd just touch base with you some advice for the listeners. My wife and I have taken our kids to Europe four times now and also to Costa Rica. And so we've kind of had some hard knocks and great times. So I thought maybe a little bit of advice on traveling with children might be pretty useful for the listeners. Wonderful. How old are your kids? Right now they're teenagers, but the first trip we took them to England and Scotland and they were only about six and nine years old. But now they've grown up to become teenagers and we've gone through trips since then about four times now. So lots of parents are tuning in right now. Dylan's got some advice from the School of Hard Knocks. How do you have a family of five on the road in Europe or Costa Rica or whatever and have a great time? Well, it's actually just four of us, but the key things that I found are when they're younger, the countryside is better than big cities. Running a car is definitely the way to go. Trains are doable, of course. We did that in France from the train from Spain to France. But with a car, you have kind of a little retreat you can go to when you're done with any of the sites. What we've found over the years is the kids get older. The sites that we visit tend to change. And when they're younger, we found that traveling more like a local worked a lot better. After only doing one museum a day, we'd go visit a local playground, for example, so the kids could get all their wiggles out on a playground with all the other European kids. Did you work to incorporate the kids into the itinerary planning or did you just wasn't father knows best? We absolutely worked to include them. One of the things we did, for example, we visited castles in England and prior to the trip, I tried to sketch out and investigate which castles would be having a festival or an event on. When we went because I knew that the kids would be more interested in something that's interactive where they can put on a costume, shoot a bow and arrow. So we would ask them, you know, hey, does a castle sound fun? And if they said, yes, we would do that. If they didn't, then we would try to find something else that they would want to do. You know, I don't think I've been to a big castle in England anyways that didn't have lots of interactive stuff going on for kids. It just seems like every day is a field trip waiting to happen. It is definitely. There's a lot to do for the kids because one thing to think about is the locals take their kids there and kids are kids around the world and they want to be entertained when they're somewhere. You know, we travelers think everything is designed for us. But you know, you could make a case that it's more designed for school groups visiting in a lot of cases and local family outings. And don't forget that as parents, we can capitalize on that with our own kids. Absolutely, 100 percent. So one of the key things to think about is, for example, kids like fast places to eat, like we would just go in a grocery store, almost all the grocery stores in Europe have a deli counter, quick take sandwiches. And that would work really well for meals as opposed to a fancy sit down restaurant, for example, because the parents in Europe need food like that. I think the kids like that more than having to sit through a long restaurant meal. Oh, absolutely. They definitely prefer it. They've given us lots of feedback on that over the years. I remember when you were talking about your kids in the car, I had a little deja vu memory of joy. I remember when I was a little teeny bopper, we would have these goofy things that I would do with my mom and dad. In Germany, you know, the word for exit is fart. And the word for journey is fart. So, you know, every exit on the road says house fart. Or if you go to the, if you're going to take a trip to the zoo, it's a zoo fart. And if you're going to go a round trip, it's a round fart. So we would just sit in the dead laughing about the farts in Europe. But kids can have fun, especially if the parents can get down on their level and make it a party. Absolutely. And that's what we found. Like we have some real nice family memories and lots of funny jokes about the small things, like the silly school of ducks we saw outside of a moat, or in a moat in a castle in England. And so we find that those little small memories are much more powerful formed and seen a piece of art that they're really not that familiar with. Did you ever go to any of the just big commercial kids destinations that the local versions of Disneyland or Legoland? We sure have. And I was going to recommend that as well. Like it's a kids trip as well as an adult. So we went to, for example, we went to Alton Towers, which is an amusement park in northwest England or in the Midlands. And we liked it better than Disneyland. It's not as crowded. The rides are funner. And we didn't see a single American and we were there in the right in the middle of summer. Very good point. You know that a lot of Americans are hell bent on going to Disneyland in Paris, but you'll have a more local, less expensive, more real and laid back and kind of charming experience. If you go to the, um, asterisk park in Paris or in Germany, there's a place called Fantasia Land, Fantasy Land. And I found it was fun for our kids to see a European angle on, uh, you know, Westerns and Cowboys and Indians and that sort of thing from a European perspective. It was a cultural experience to go to Fantasia Land in Germany for a bunch of American kids. Yeah, we always found it really funny to go to like out West land and an amusement park in the middle of England and what their take is on it because we live out West. And so we were just sometimes laugh and shake our heads, but it was a really fun time for all of us. And so much less crowded and cheaper than going to Disneyland. So we had a really good time hitting up the local amusement parks for the kids. Dylan, you are just an inspiration from a parenting point of view. And I think a good takeaway is if you can afford it, if you can pull it off, it is such a beautiful thing from a parenting point of view to take your kids with you to Europe. Yes, it's been a lot of fun. We've visited many countries. We like Scandinavia a lot because it's very spread out, not quite as crowded like Paris in the middle of august to be with kids. It was pretty rough. We've also been during the Christmas season. And that was really nice because it wasn't as crowded. Kids get tired at the end of the day. So even if the sun goes down at 430, we would be back at the hotel or the apartment we rented at that time. Any way to eat dinner and the chateaus and all the locales in Europe, the big tourist sites, they dress them up for Christmas. There's Christmas trees, decorations, and we all loved it. Your kids are really blessed to have that experience to bank in their memory as they grow up. Dylan, thanks so much for sharing your wisdom as far as parenting on the road. Thanks, Rick. Bye now. Michael's calling in from Mount Vernon in Ohio. Hey, Michael. Hi, how are you today? I'm great. Thanks for calling. Wait, I don't have a faux pas, but we do have some very memorable experiences. My wife and I have been traveling in Europe for 30 years. And our bucket list contains the idea that we want to meet the people and learn the culture, not necessarily to see the big sites and the big cities and so forth. So we're kind of opposite of what a lot of travelers do. But because of that, we really gained some absolutely marvelous experiences. As an example, we were in Italy for three weeks and there was a hill town called Civitella with a magnificent castle ruin. And there wasn't much going on, but they had a little museum. So we went in there. There was a two room museum that featured what happened during World War II in that village. And apparently what happened was that the German army was upset because there were partisans in the area. And if anybody's seen a World War II movie, the Germans come in and they take hostages and they murder 20 or so members of the village. In this actual situation, they murdered 110 boys and men in that village. And that's what this museum was about. They had a display case with pictures of all of these men and boys. And I mean, it still reverberates in my mind to see that. So on a happier note though, we shared recess with nine students from a one room school in Muten, Switzerland. We had rented an apartment and this school was above that apartment. And that was absolutely one of our most memorable experiences. I think the teacher gave them a little longer recess because we were out there having so much fun. And did you have any sort of takeaway from that visit? Well, our takeaway is that it reinforces our style of travel. We know that people have a bucket list. They want to go to Rome and see the Coliseum and the Eiffel Tower in Paris and Tower of London. And bucket lists satisfy a lot of American travelers. What we like to emphasize is getting away from the tourist crowds and the tourist spots where you only meet Europeans that are there because they're serving the tourist market. Your philosophy is great to get beyond that sort of tourism. Yeah, exactly. And our philosophy is to get a car to find these other little villages that are not touristy and get to know the locals. So we stay on farms. We would rent an apartment so that we can kind of blend in to the local community. And for us, it's much, much more rewarding. And the examples that you just shared about the beauty of that approach to European travel or travel anywhere is a great testimony to the fact that that is how you have those experiences. Thanks, Michael, for sharing that. Okay, thank you. Okay, happy travels and keep making those serendipitous moments happen. You bet. Thank you. Bye-bye. Travel with Rick Steves is produced by Tim Tatton with Kaz Mora Hall and Donna Bardsley at Rick Steves Europe in Edmunds, Washington. Andrew Wakeling and Sherry Court upload the shows to our website. Sheila Gershaw handles affiliate promotions. Our theme music is by Jerry Frank. Take a look at Rick's list for what to pack in your suitcase and share tips with fellow travelers. It's part of our online travel forum. It's at ricksteves.com. We'll see you next week with more travel with Rick Steves. Hey, I'm Rick Steves. In my work, I've always measured profit, not in dollars earned, but by trips impacted. And after over 40 years of teaching travel, it's clear to me that if you equip yourself with good information and expect yourself to travel smart, you will. For us, content is king. That's why we offer a world of free content at ricksteves.com. All the TV shows we've ever produced, 50 hours of practical lectures, talks ranging from packing smart and tech on the road, to cruising and language lessons, a thriving family of travelers comparing notes in our forum and more. And again, it's all entirely free. It's at ricksteves.com.