Deadly Engagement

A Command Performance

35 min
Oct 2, 20257 months ago
Listen to Episode
Summary

This Dateline episode examines the murder trial of Shannon Crawley, accused of killing Danita Smith over a love triangle involving police officer Jermere Stroud. The trial hinged on circumstantial evidence, conflicting testimonies, and a series of audio recordings that backfired spectacularly when jurors found them obviously fabricated, ultimately leading to Crawley's conviction for first-degree murder.

Insights
  • Credibility and presentation matter more than physical evidence in circumstantial cases; jurors respond to witness demeanor and consistency
  • Self-created evidence can devastate a defense strategy when it appears inauthentic or contradicts the defendant's narrative
  • Witness reliability varies significantly; even key witnesses may have memory gaps or inability to make positive identifications
  • The prosecution's strategy of allowing damaging evidence to 'marinate' overnight can be more effective than immediate rebuttal
  • Domestic violence allegations can create reasonable doubt even without corroborating physical evidence, making witness credibility critical
Trends
Circumstantial evidence cases increasingly rely on behavioral analysis and jury perception of witness credibility rather than forensic proofAudio and video evidence created by defendants can become double-edged swords when authenticity is questioned in courtPolice officer involvement in criminal cases creates additional scrutiny and jury skepticism about investigative biasDomestic violence context significantly influences jury decision-making and burden of proof perceptionJury deliberation requests for evidence review indicate growing juror engagement with technical details and comparative analysis
Topics
Murder Trial Procedure and Evidence PresentationCircumstantial Evidence in Criminal ProsecutionWitness Credibility and Cross-Examination StrategyAudio Recording Authentication and Forensic AnalysisDomestic Violence Context in Criminal DefensePolice Officer Testimony and Bias PerceptionJury Deliberation and Evidence Review RequestsDefense Strategy in High-Stakes Criminal CasesClosing Arguments and Narrative ConstructionVictim Impact Statements and SentencingFalse Evidence and Defendant Self-SabotageMotive, Means, and Opportunity FrameworkGunshot Residue Testing and Investigative GapsCell Phone Records as Corroborating EvidenceJury Perception of Voice Authenticity
People
Shannon Crawley
Defendant convicted of first-degree murder in the death of Danita Smith; central figure in trial narrative
Danita Smith
Murder victim; fiancée of police officer Jermere Stroud; subject of jealousy-motivated murder charge
Jermere Stroud
Police officer and key prosecution witness; accused by defendant of committing the murder; central to love triangle
Sharon Smith
Danita Smith's mother; prosecution's first witness; delivered victim impact statement at sentencing
David Sachs
Prosecutor who built case on motive of jealousy and presented closing arguments emphasizing defendant's lies
C. Scott Holmes
Shannon Crawley's defense attorney; argued rush to judgment and insufficient investigation of Jermere Stroud
Sean Pate
Lead detective; testified about defendant's lies to police and inconsistent statements over three years
Judge Ronald Stevens
Presiding judge; made statement about Jermere Stroud creating 'perfect storm' and sentenced Crawley to life
Michael Hedgepeth
Apartment maintenance worker; testified about seeing woman in burgundy SUV shortly after gunshot
Pam Zincon
Charlotte detective; investigated alleged rape claim by Shannon against Jermere; testified about knife evidence
John McCann
Durham Herald Sun reporter; covered trial and noted jury's reaction to audio recordings
Edith Kearns
Danita Smith's best friend; testified about victim and observed defendant's demeanor in courtroom
Ann Crawley
Shannon Crawley's mother; defended daughter's testimony and claimed Jermere disguised his voice on tapes
Quotes
"My DNA is nowhere at the scene of the crime. Nowhere. There's no fingerprints."
Shannon CrawleyOpening section
"The truth is the truth. And I know I did not shoot and kill anyone."
Shannon CrawleyPre-trial discussion
"I felt sad. I felt angry because I was looking at the face of the person who hurt my friend."
Edith KearnsTrial testimony
"You took my baby away from me. If it wasn't your place to do that, it's because you didn't give it to me."
Sharon SmithVictim impact statement
"Jermier Stroud caused a perfect storm to happen and then walked away from it."
Judge Ronald StevensSentencing
Full Transcript
Danita Smith had been in her grave more than three years by the time her accused killer finally went on trial. During that time, investigators had heard several versions of a similar story. In all of them, Danita was murdered in the last act. Other than that, the stories of Shannon Crawley and Jermere Stroud diverged. Each said the other was to blame. Who pulled the trigger? That depends on who you ask. There were multiple theories, but little physical evidence explaining exactly what had happened. It's all circumstances. Yeah, all circumstances. That, of course, worked to Shannon Crawley's advantage. My DNA is nowhere at the scene of the crime. Nowhere. There's no fingerprints. That detail alone made some people very nervous. She was a convincing speaker, and she was alleging some part of domestic violence. And if there was anyone on the jury that had any experience with domestic violence, would it be believable? She didn't look the part. I mean, she tells a credible story. On top of that, prosecutors worried what a jury would think of their key witness, the two-timing cop whose behavior felt like a catalyst for all of this. How would he perform on the stand and under pressure? His facial expressions, the way he would say things, eye contact or lack thereof, the way he would shift. I would tell him he comes across squirrely sometimes. As a result, there was talk of a deal. If the case went to trial, Shannon risked a life sentence. A guilty plea to a lesser charge might allow the 30-year-old mother of two to emerge from state prison in time to dance at her children's weddings. The prosecutor left that decision up to Danita's mom, Sharon Smith. Shannon was offered a plea deal at one point. Uh-huh. Were you consulted about that? Uh-huh. What'd you say? No. Don't let her off. Uh-uh. In fact, my words were my daughter didn't get to plea for her life that morning, so no. No plea. Actually, it didn't matter. Because Shannon decided she'd rather take her chances in front of a jury. The truth is the truth. And I know I did not shoot and kill anyone. In this episode, you'll hear from people who witnessed the courtroom drama as it unfolded in February 2010. The whole trial was basically us saying that Shannon Crawley committed this murder and the defense saying Jermier Stroud did this murder. You'll hear what Shannon Crawley and Jermier Stroud said under oath, while seated just feet from one another. And one of the things that popped in my head was that maybe she had done something. I didn't know what he had done, and I didn't know what he was going to do to me. You'll hear how those in the courtroom responded to one piece of evidence that some had thought unimpeachable. Everybody laughed. Everybody laughed. The jury laughed. It was so bad that her defense attorney had to bring up how bad it was. And we will take you to the trial's final seconds for the dramatic moment when jurors announced their verdict. I just remember sitting down. They had the doors of the courtroom locked. I remember sitting down, my hands on my face. I'm Josh Mankiewicz, and this is Deadly Engagement, a podcast from Dateline. Episode 6, A Command Performance. On the morning of February 10th, 2010, 12 jurors and four alternates assembled in the Durham County Courthouse for the first day of Shannon Crawley's murder trial. In the front row, a few feet away from them, sat Danita Smith's family, each wearing a pin with Danita's picture on it. To their left, on an elevated perch, was a distinguished white-haired man, Judge Ronald Stevens. I was there from gavel to gavel. That's the voice of John McCann, who covered the trial for the Durham Herald Sun. We're talking about a murder here, so the tone was definitely, you know, somber. Shannon's family here, and, you know, you got Danita's people on the other side. So it was, you know, tense is a good word for it. Shortly before noon, Prosecutor David Sachs rose and walked to the center of the blonde, wood-paneled courtroom to begin his opening statement. He told the jury how one of the seven deadly sins was at the heart of this case. That sin, he said, was envy. Because Shannon Crawley envied Danita's life. She envied Danita's future. And she wanted Danita's man. You can always kind of guess maybe what snapped in her mind or what happened in her head to make her want to do this. That's prosecutor David Sachs. For whatever reason, she couldn't handle the situation between Jameer and Danita. And to resort to this just, to me, speaks of desperation. And whether that's against Danita or against Jameer or both, whatever way, she just couldn't handle it. The prosecutor called Danita's mom, Sharon Smith, as his first witness. Clasping a large photograph of her late daughter, Sharon told the jury who Danita was and what she'd planned to do with the life that was so suddenly cut short. Yes, it was a tragedy. And yes, I lost my daughter. But my daughter still lives on. I knew what she stood for. I knew what her drive, her energy. I knew that she was going places. Next, several former NCCU students took the stand to talk about Danita and the day she died. Danita's best friend, Edith Kearns, was one of them. It was scary. It was unreal because that's not something that I was expecting to be called about or participate in. And when you testified, Shannon Crawley's sitting right there. Yes. Now, you had to look at this woman. Yes. Yes. What'd you see? What'd you think? I felt sad. I felt angry because I was looking at the face of the person who hurt my friend. And I just saw like a cold stare. It almost seemed like no emotion was behind it. And that's what I saw when I looked at her. On the second day of the trial, the prosecution moved into the meat of its case. The next witness was Michael Hedgepeth. He's the apartment complex maintenance man who says he encountered a woman fitting Shannon Crawley's description, driving a burgundy SUV in the area shortly after he heard a gunshot. Now, this young lady that's saying, though, if she heard, she was upset and shaking and stuff like that. Okay, we'll have someone out as soon as possible. Though Hedgepeth testified how he remembered the woman in the SUV was sobbing when he saw her, he also said on the stand that he could not identify Shannon Crawley as the woman he'd seen, either at the time or right then in the courtroom. You certainly want any piece of evidence you can get. And so I would have loved for him to say, yes, that's her. That's the lady I saw, you know, leaving. Prosecutor David Sachs again. But what we liked was the stuff that he did remember. He was very positive about the vehicle. He said, yep, that's the vehicle that I saw. And he remembers her wearing some kind of uniform kind of shirt. After the state's forensic pathologist told the jury about her autopsy of Danita Smith's body and the bullet recovered from her skull, the prosecutor called his key witness to the stand. And that was Jermier Stroud. I kind of thought selflessly Danita had some personal things going on. Wearing a tan jacket, a white shirt, and a salmon-colored tie, Jermier Stroud placed his hand on a Bible and swore to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth Even if his mortifying truth was that he cheated on his fianc and that his cheating led directly to her murder. And one of the things that popped in my head based on my recent interactions with Shannon was that maybe she had done something. Jameer did well. He did about as I expected. Prosecutor David Sachs again. Go back to that word I'd used before, squirrely. You know, he kind of comes up. So part of it was, I knew what to expect. I mean, this was really kind of a command performance for Jermier, because although he's not on trial there, his sort of reputation and maybe his job and career are on trial. That's true. I think that's true. I think that's true. I do know that he was under a lot of pressure and a lot of stress. It's possible, but I don't recall the amount of times I called. He did a lot better than I thought he was going to do. That's lead detective Sean Pate. He knew how important it was. We talked to him. There is no trying to save face here. The story is out. There's no way you come out looking good. They already think bad of you anyway. Everybody already thinks you're a scoundrel who cheated on his fiancée. We've actually told them there's no way that their opinion can get any worse. Just do what's right. And take the hit. Take the hit. The prosecutor rounded out his case with a parade of investigators. Detective Pate chief among them. Pate told the court how Shannon had lied from day one of his investigation about never having been to Durham, about never having owned a gun, and about her shifting descriptions of Jermere Stroud. At first, he was someone she'd described as incapable of violence in that initial police interview. By the time of their last interview, Shannon described Jermier as someone who repeatedly threatened to kill Shannon and her children. What was that like? It's not as nerve-wracking as I really thought it was going to be because at that point I had asked and answered the questions so many times. The prosecutor's final witness was Charlotte Detective Pam Zincon. You'll remember, she investigated the alleged rape in which Shannon accused Jermier. Mr. Stroud, this is Detective Zincon with Stroud, the police department. Detective Zincon told the court she'd been on the rape investigation from the beginning. She'd talked with Shannon at the hospital soon after it was reported, and she later interviewed Jermier multiple times. Hello. Hi, Jermier. Hi. Hey, this is Detective Zenkhan. Pam Zenkhan, how you doing? According to Zenkhan, both Jermier's work records and his cell phone records supported his alibi for that night. Then, under further questioning, she related how the day after the alleged rape, Shannon had asked her if investigators had found the knife she claimed Jermier had used when raping her. When the detective told Shannon the knife had not been found, she said Shannon suggested the cops search Jermier's trash can. And before police could go looking for the knife, she said, Jermier Stroud had called to tell her he'd just found a knife in his trash can. What kind of blade was it? Can you describe the blade? Um, it was, I don't know, it was at least like a four-inch blade. When the knife is found in his garbage can that Shannon puts us onto the day after she's raped, I don't know that Jameer really had to say anything else. I mean, it seemed obvious not only who was stalking whom, but who was trying to frame whom at that point. The prosecutor rested his case after that bit of testimony. perhaps with the intention of allowing the knife story to marinate in jurors' minds overnight. Even so, prosecutor Sachs was far from done. The next day, Shannon Crawley was set to take the stand in her own defense. And Sachs had a surprise waiting for her. www.dateline.nbc.com NBC on Amazon Music. Great storytelling with a twist from the true crime original. Hello, Dateline listeners. It's Josh Mankiewicz. We know how much you love to watch Dateline, and when you're hanging on every twist and turn, the last thing you want is to be interrupted. With an NBC News subscription, you can now watch full Dateline episodes on demand and stream the entire Dateline 24-7 channel all ad-free, and it doesn't stop there. When you subscribe, you'll also get the best of NBC News, including ad-free articles, podcasts, and full NBC News programs. It's your dateline fix, plus exclusive NBC News content. Just download the NBC News app and subscribe now. how they made it there. With actor-comedian host Joel McHale, I could barely stop laughing. You know Joel from Community or The Soup, his new show Animal Control. He asked for four bottles of Washington State wine for our interview. He has news about whether there's a community movie coming. He tells the story of how he got one of his first big acting gigs by lying about his height. And you have to stay through the credits. He's so funny. We have behind the scenes bloopers and outtakes from our conversation. Hope you'll listen and follow the drink wherever you get your podcasts. On day 10 of Shannon Crawley's murder trial, defense attorney C. Scott Holmes presented his case. After questioning three witnesses who said they had heard Shannon complain about being harassed by Jermere Stroud. Holmes called his star witness and his best hope for an acquittal, his client, Shannon Crawley. She presented herself well. She's a good-looking lady. And when she spoke, she spoke to the jury. That's Durham detective Sean Pate. When she was answering a question from a prosecutor or defense attorney, she looked toward the jury and spoke with them. Open. Demurely dressed in a white cable knit pullover, Shannon told the story she had first told Detective Pate three years earlier. The one that began on January 3rd, the day before Danita Smith's murder. That was the day she said Jermere Stroud entered her home uninvited and demanded Shannon take a ride with him. I did not know where I'm going at the time. Though that road trip lasted several hours and included stops at an apartment complex and an office park in Durham, Shannon told the court Jermier never told her what that drive was all about. Later that day at around midnight, Shannon said Jermier came to her house again. Again, he entered uninvited and insisted they once again rehash what had gone wrong with their love affair. We talked all night. About five in the morning or so, he said that he again wanted me to go with him. And he said, I'll make it real simple. You get your children die or you die from your children. According to Shannon, it was under that threat of death for her and her kids that she once again drove with Jermere Stroud to Durham. It was on this trip, she said, that Jermere Stroud got out of her car and ran up the stairs of one of the apartment buildings. And I heard him arguing, him yelling at someone. I couldn't really hear what was going on. Then I heard a woman arguing back. It was then Shannon said that she heard a gunshot. Seconds later he was running out past me from the breezeway and was shoving the gun down in his waist. Did it seem odd or strange to you when he started climbing behind the backseat Yes When you were leaving Yes Okay What were you thinking then I didn know what he had done and I didn know what he was going to do to me When she testified, how did you think she did? I think she did okay. That's Shannon's mom, Ann Crawley. Did you look at the jury? I mean, could you tell whether the testimony was working? Yeah. You know, you look, you can't tell. I believe she thought that she could sell it. I was worried that she could sell it. And that's Detective Sean Pate. She had an answer for almost every question. They were the same answers we've heard before. And they had to be. Otherwise, they would be pointed out. So the story that Shannon told about Jameer threatening her life, that's the story she told in court. Exactly. Under cross-examination, Shannon mentioned, almost as an aside, that Jermier had called her while she was out on bond and awaiting trial. You called, I know. It was only a brief exchange. But in that moment, the prosecutor looked like a robin eyeing a worm. The defense had elected not to use the recordings Shannon had made. Now, by testifying that Jermier had called her, Shannon had opened the door for the prosecutor to play those recordings for the jury. Did you believe any of those tapes were legitimate? Not after I heard them. Prosecutor David Sachs. You end up playing those tapes at trial even though they're a defense exhibit. Yes. Because why? They show her to be deceptive. Yes, I believe they do. I believe they do. Remember, these are tapes that, if considered credible, would have been the smoking gun that implicated Jermier and exonerated Shannon. They find out I shot her, man. That's life right now. What about me? I know, but you got a better shot than me. And I already lied. For the sake of comparison, this is how Jermier Stroud sounded on the stand. And one of the things that popped in my head was that maybe she had done something. Now, I've heard Jameer speak. I've heard him testify. That ain't Jameer. For newspaper reporter John McCann, the airy whisper coming from that boombox made the voice he'd heard from Jameer days earlier seem as rich and resonant as a professional announcer. I don't know who it was in those statements. It wasn't Jameer. It just had the whole appearance or the whole sound that she just made this up. And it just came across like that. It just came across like a production. A very bad one, I might add. McCann was not the only one in court who thought so. Spectators in the gallery laughed. Jurors giggled. It was precisely the opposite reaction Shannon Crawley must have been hoping for. Everybody laughed. Everybody laughed. That is Danita's mom, Sharon. Even Shannon's attorney said, that sounds like Michael Jackson, the high-pitched voice. Jameer does not have a high-pitched voice. The only people in the courtroom who seemed to think the male voice on Shannon's recording sounded like Jameer Stroud were all named Crawley. Shannon's parents said they could not understand what it was that others found so amusing about a cop confessing to murder. The hardest thing for me is that knowing my child and knowing that no one believes her, that's difficult. It's difficult to accept. Why doesn't that sound like Jermier on the tapes? He whispered. Yeah. I don't think he's dumb. He whispered. He's disguising his voice. He's disguising his voice, yes. In closing arguments, Shannon's defense attorney asked jurors to put themselves in Shannon Crawley's shoes, a single mom who'd fallen into an abusive relationship with a conniving and manipulative man. It's important, I think, to try to see the world from the eyes of Shannon on the days that led up to and the day that this happened. Holmes argued the prosecution's case against Shannon Crawley was the result of a rush to judgment. Police, he said, did not do enough to investigate Jermere Stroud. They did not check his hands for gunshot residue on the day of the murder. They did not search his car or his home. When prosecutor David Sachs delivered his closing argument, he said only that Shannon had the motive, the means, and the opportunity to murder Danita Smith. The motive, he said, was jealousy. The means was that .38 caliber pistol Shannon had purchased from a co-worker two months before the murder. Shannon clearly had the opportunity, since even she admitted being at Danita Smith's apartment complex on the morning she died. And even though the maintenance man, Michael Hedgepeth, could not say Shannon Crawley was the woman he'd spoken with moments after hearing a gunshot, Sacks reminded the jury, Hedgepeth had remembered the burgundy SUV. He had remembered that the woman wore a grayish-green uniform shirt with red in the patch on the sleeve. That description had matched a shirt later found in Shannon Crawley's closet. Then, Sachs recounted the times Shannon had lied to police. The claim that she'd never been to Durham, never owned a firearm, The lie she'd told about being late to work that morning because she'd taken one of her children to a doctor's appointment. The prosecutor could have stopped there. Except he couldn't resist circling back one last time to the evidence Shannon herself had brought to this case. Those audio recordings she had made. The ones that had made the jurors snicker. You heard Jimmy have testified. and you heard the tapes. Does anybody really believe that that's Jameer talking on these tapes? Does anybody truly believe that that makes any kind of sense that somebody who did the things that she's saying Jameer did would call and say those kinds of things and basically just confess and admit to killing Danita? No. For the prosecutor, those tapes more than anything else revealed what he said was an essential truth about Shannon Crawley. What do you expect me to say, Jameer? They're so comical, they're obviously phony, and I think it goes to show what was going on. This wasn't something that we intercepted on. She brought to us saying, this shows that I'm telling you the truth, and I wanted them to hear it because, hoping and believing they would have the same reaction I did when they hear it, that it was comical and obviously phony. A little after 3 p.m. on a Friday afternoon, the jury got the case. All rise. They deliberated for two hours before the judge sent them home with instructions not to discuss the case, avoid all news reports about it, and to be back on Monday morning. For Shannon Crawley and her family, it was the beginning of an agonizing weekend of wondering if it would be the last they would spend together. It was clear once jurors gathered to deliberate on Monday, February 22, 2010, that most of them had spent the weekend thinking about the case. Late in the morning, they sent a note to the judge asking to review several pieces of evidence. Shannon's cell phone records. Photos of Shannon's home and SUV. And they also wanted to hear more of Shannon's audio recordings, the ones she had purportedly recorded while talking with Jermere Stroud on the phone. Let me come out, sir. You know I already got away from part of one. Do you think I can't do it again? I'm sure you can. Someone like you, I'm sure. Although only one of the recordings had been played during the trial, the judge granted the jury's request over the objection of Shannon defense attorney So after they retook their seats in the jury box Prosecutor David Sachs played the five audio tapes Shannon had turned over to him years earlier Tapes she had once believed would be the evidence that would set her free. What about Thursday? I mean, I heard you arguing. What was that about? Me? What about me? She didn't even know me, and I didn't know her. So that was the argument? It sounded like she was more in charge of the conversation. And why is the other party whispering? Detective Sean Pate was in court when those recordings were played. You think Shannon faked those tapes? I have no doubt. Everybody in that room thought it. She faked the tapes, and it didn't help her? Not at all. In fact, it sounds like it probably hurt her. That's what I was going to say. It really hurts worse when you have to go to the point you start faking evidence. After breaking for lunch, the jury returned to the deliberation room and then sent word that they had reached a verdict. Once the jury had filed back into the courtroom and taken their seats, Judge Stevens accepted their verdict form without fanfare or ceremony. Shannon, wearing black on this day, remained seated. She did turn to the gallery, apparently looking for her mom's face. I think my heart stopped. Shannon's mom, Anne. Before the verdict came, she turned around and she mouthed, I love you. And you said the same thing? Yeah. Did you have a sense of how it was going to go? No. I felt that she would be found not guilty. I believe that. We, the jury, return the unanimous verdict as follows. Guilty of first-degree murder. In her chair, Shannon Crawley swayed slightly, as if rocked by the words. She said nothing to her attorney. And when deputies led her from the courtroom, she looked straight ahead. How'd she look when that verdict came down? Like all her life just drained out of her, like she's seen a ghost. In that instant, Danita's mom Sharon realized a solemn truth, one the families of murder victims can only learn the hard way. You get any satisfaction watching her led away to prison? No, because it's not bringing Danita back. I thought I would feel different. I didn't. All right, we're going to be in recess for 15 minutes. During the short break, the judge thanked the jury for their service and dismissed them. Then Shannon was returned to the courtroom for formal sentencing. It was then that Sharon Smith was allowed to speak directly to the woman now convicted of murdering her daughter. You took my baby away from me. If it wasn't your place to do that, it's because you didn't give it to me. And right now, I hope you rock hell. You took something from me. When offered a chance to speak, Shannon Crawley said nothing. Then, before announcing her sentence, Judge Stevens had this to say. about the man at the center of this hurricane of passion and madness, a man who was not present in the courtroom that day. The judge said, quote, Jermier Stroud caused a perfect storm to happen and then walked away from it, unquote. With that said, the judge sentenced Shannon Crawley to life without parole. Moments later, the Crawley family spoke with reporters in a crowded hallway outside the courtroom. And now my daughter, who is the perfect victim, the perfect victim for someone like Jameer Stroud, has now been convicted for a murder he committed. The greatest crimes, it is said, are crimes of injustice. crimes where, in the eyes of the beholder at least, the guilty are excused and the innocent punished. In this case, there was plenty of pain to go around. I mean, one mom's not going to see their child ever again. And this other mom loses her child too. Detective Sean Pate. In Shannon's case, her family lost a daughter as well. And two kids lost a mom. So while I was pleased for Danita's family, I still looked at Shannon's family and I felt their pain as well. Murders don't happen in a vacuum. No, they don't. There's always a big ripple effect. One selfish act destroyed two families. And the guilty party in this morality play? A jury had said it was Shannon. And what about Jermier? If the Smiths and the Crawleys agree on anything, It's probably that both families would be whole today, if not for the man they had in common, Jermere Stroud. The judge said Jermere created the perfect storm of events for this to happen. Right, right, right. That's right. And I remember having that thought, thinking, yes, but. Prosecutor David Sachs. I agree with the judge that, yes, I think he did create the storm and he created the circumstances that led to Danita's death. But he's not responsible. At the end, it comes down to the person who pulls that trigger. True enough, perhaps, in the eyes of the law. For Sharon Smith, there is still a cosmic account, one yet to be squared. I do know that my belief is that Jumeir is going to pay for this one day. And he's probably paying for it now, but he's going to pay for it. Call it karma or conscience or the universal law of what goes around comes around. The idea is that the culpable must somehow bear the burden of their choices. Well, I'm not going to put it and say he'll be judged. Danita Smith's friend, Edith Kearns. What I do believe is that when situations like that happen, your conscience or your mind and your heart, you're dealing with these things. So I feel like that's something that's always going to be on the inside and that, you know, he will be dealing with. And so I can imagine that's a difficult burden to bear. Jermere Stroud now lives in another state and is the married father of two. He declined to speak with us for this podcast. Had she lived, Danita Smith would now be in her mid-40s. Who knows what kind of career she might have had, what kind of mother she might have become. Her mother, Sharon, has made peace with all of that and moved on with her life. It's what she says Danita would have wanted her to do. Danita wouldn't want me to be sitting and being bitter or sad. But Danita's not with me physically, but she's with me spiritually. I don't have to worry about Shannon. I don't have to worry about Jameer. Because when I lay down at night, I get a peaceful sleep. I don't know if they do. This podcast is a production of Dateline and NBC News. Tim Beecham is the producer. Marshall Hausfeld, Brian Drew, Deb Brown, and Billy Ray are audio editors. Kimberly Flores Gaynor is associate producer. Adam Gorfain is co-executive producer. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer. From NBC News Audio, sound mixing by Rich Cutler, Bryson Barnes is head of audio production. all of music, Nick Jonas, to talk about his new album, Sunday Best, and his rise to fame with the Jonas Brothers. You can get our conversation for free wherever you download your podcasts.