Ep 79: Ho Ho... How to Get Your Girl to Swing (And Not F*ck It Up)

Find us at vanilla swingers.com and you'll find Kat's only fans page there too. You wish. Hey Kat. Yeah Leo. I'm going to record one of those silly disclaimers that you put at the beginning of the podcast. Real advisory sticker. Let's go because this is going to be explicit. Oh yeah we're going to talk about lots of sex. Lots of bad language. We might even have sex on the podcast. We might have. Listening to the noise of our love making. There might be nudity. But you can't see it on the podcast. Doesn't matter. You can hear it. You can hear the nudity. We might corrupt you if you're under the age of 18. That's the disclaimer. Don't listen. We're not professional. What else? And yeah we're not professionals. We know nothing. Absolutely nothing. And if you want to try to sue us? Well we don't have any money either. Because this is bite-size and commercial free. We're not trying to make any money. It's fun. So if you like it then tune in and listen. Subscribe. Yeah. Word. I'm dreaming of a white Christmas. Where are you living California? The very next day you get away. This year. Save me from tears. I'll give it to someone special. Special. Whoa. You know what those were? Christmas songs. Those were the top Christmas songs. Really? Did we do all of them? Actually by my count we're missing one. Guess which one it is. Jingle Bells. It's Mariah Carey's All I Want for Christmas. Of course it is. It's the number one Christmas song. And I'll admit I don't really like Mariah Carey music. But that's the one song that I make an exception for. It's a really, so you didn't want to sing it. Is that why you didn't pull it up? You know she makes three million dollars a year on the royalties for that song? Really? How come there are no contemporary Christmas songs? Yeah. There's no good new songs. Nobody's writing a new hit. You hear them occasionally but they all kind of suck. Yeah, every one of them you're like, yeah, that's not going to be a hit. And you know they're not going to be a hit. They're not. They're not catchy. Was there some law where by the time they hit the 90s, every Christmas song that came after just sucks? Well, I mean, you've got Bing Crosby. That's like from the 50s. Just like the ones I used to know. Well, I come from the south and there was no snow. No white Christmas, huh? No. You ever been in a real serious snowstorm? I have, but not at Christmas. I don't think I've ever had a white Christmas. Really? Really. I've never had a white Christmas. You're kidding. No. I think we're going to have a listener and they're going to reach out. They're going to invite us to like their cabin over for Christmas. That's snowy and blizzardy. It's some very winter wonderland place. We have children. We have Santa. That's so anti-sexy. That is why I haven't had a winter wonderland because we don't travel at Christmas time. Well you guys did it. What they do? You crazy ass misfits. You're making us go to the Avian Awards in Vegas. We don't belong at the Porn Oscars. Porn stars, baby. Although Kat really wants to play with some more porn boys. Bounce, bounce, bounce. You know we are going to be so out of place there. We're not. You know what we're going to do though, right? What are we going to do? We're going to wear bags over our heads. Yeah. We can't show our face. So don't be tuning in thinking I'm going to see what they look like. So when we go in the red carpet. It is not going to happen. You're going to have a really easy time picking out Kat Leop. This is not going to be our oof moment where our vanilla world, we get outed. It's just not going to happen. And if you guys are crazy enough to force us to get up on the stage to accept something, we're going to go ahead and give an acceptance speech through the eye hole of a trader joke grocery bag. I love it. Oh, lia lia lia. I'm going to commit to the bit the whole way. I'm just going to be quiet. They might throw us out. They might. I can see that. And you know what? If they do, I'm going to wear like a badge of honor. Okay. So we're going to be talking about the people that have gone to the avian awards and won a bag on our phone, marched out of there. Tell us never to come back. We're still going to get some porn stars. That's my goal for the weekend. I mean, you're going to be surrounded by porn stars. I know, right? Some of them must want to play not just for the gram. Honestly, it depends. Are they doing it kind of as a networking event? Well, maybe it just, it depends if you have a little downtime and you want to have a little sexy fun, especially for guys, because guys are horn dogs with high libidos. What you talking about? Yeah, I feel personally attacked. You should feel persecuted 100%. Yeah, but you know, I was just talking to somebody today that yes, guys are dogs. They'll show up behind a dumpster at Wendy's and it's true. I like the way girls are white. You like that we're emotional and soft and sensual. I feel like we connect. I connect pretty well at that level. Are you a feminine? A feminine. I think you mean a feminist, right? I'm dreaming of a white Christmas. Oh, you're going to get me up an octave. Is that what you're trying to do? That was the plan. Didn't it work? Back in the old days, they made them into eunuchs, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's like a sing real high pitch. All I want for Christmas is my two front nuts, my two front nuts, my two front nuts. Yeah, that's going to be wild. You know, it's just one of those bucket list items that you just tear the fabric reality. I got to be honest with you, prior to being in the lifestyle, sure, I knew about porn. Maybe ancillarily, I'd heard they were like poured Oscars, but so ancillarily, I can't even believe that we're doing something like that that we're going to attend. Yeah. We said it to some of our friends that we never in a million years thought that this thing would blow up like it did. But we're just letting it go with the flow. And we just say yes to YOLO, whatever comes our way. I might have looked at you when we got the nod. Are you serious? We're really going to go. Is this like our... Yeah, sometimes Kat has her foot on the brake. This is our out moment. What the heck are we doing? The crazier the adventure. She oftentimes is the voice of reason. And I don't really like having a voice of reason in the car with me. Like if we were to go skydiving, I'd let him go first. I'd just push him out. Woo! And then I don't know if I'd go. I might just stay up in the plane. What? Yeah, you could... You go. Is the plane filled with porn stars? Is that what we're talking about? Yeah, it's the magic of our own. I'm going to be like in a flying Elvis suit. Yes, definitely. Landing in Vegas. No, that would be cool. What if I did like an Elvis suit on the red carpet? Oh my lord. Oh, that is fantasy unlocked right there. Are you really going to dress up like Vegas Elvis? Vegas Elvis. And then what will I be? Just his Priscilla? But Vegas Elvis with a bag on his head. Oh my gosh. It's getting weirder by the minute. I kind of like it. You're kind of scaring me. I think I want to say no. That's why it works out really well with us because you do say yes, except those four times you said no. I said four times no. You know me. I ain't afraid to be an outlaw. You're not afraid of being embarrassed, humiliated. I will gladly play the role of the outlaw Jesse James. Well, I think that's what the unicorns in our life like because you've got that little bad boy edge. But they don't live with you day to day and they don't have the cringe factor that I have to deal with. Yeah, we talked about that. That's going to be a bucket list item. To be on the red carpet? No, to do like a collab with an OF gal or a guy, am I right? Oh, I can't do a collab. That would put me on camera. You have to put the foam head on. That's what I'm talking about. Well, you're going to put the foam head on. I'm going to be the one that's filming. They're really used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming, wow, what a ride. Are you going to be totally used up? Maybe I'm dressed as hard as Thompson. No. A long cigarette with his. No. Gonzo, nobody's going to get that. Sure they would. Horcers? Yeah, absolutely. They get Elvis. Elvis. I should go as flying Elvis. I could go as one of the guys from the hangover and I could wear like a baby view. You better if you wore me on the front. That'd be hilarious. Oh my God, that would be really funny. It's like a Halloween costume. It's not. You know what? I'm going to look sexy. I don't care what you're going to do. I'm going to look sexy because this is my red carpet moment that I'll never have again. I'm going as ladder stage Elvis. He is so embarrassing. Oh my gosh. He's going to wear like a fast suit or something. Oh yeah. So New Year's is coming up at an alarming speed. It is going really, really fast, which I'm so excited about because we have some plans for New Year's. I'm so excited. We're going to do great Gatsby style. Illuminati. Could you please help us with our costumes because we haven't really got anything yet. Yeah, we've kind of been busy with some vanilla stuff here. Yes. We are drowning in vanilla land people. It's been the longest stretch of not seeing Poofer since our throttle began. Yeah. I'm feeling drier than the Sahara Desert, honey. Okay. I'm so sad. I need some fun. I need some sexy fun. I just think that is the coolest experience to experience New Year's watching the ball drop with close friends. I agree. Last year we were at the ranch. Really. I think it was actually our second lifestyle New Year's last year, but we didn't know anybody at all. It was our second time at the club. It'll be really, really wonderful this year. Yeah. I think you're all just sitting around watching. They're counting down loudly from 10 to 1. Here we go again. And I've always wanted to go to like a cocktail party at New Year's. You got another year and you're like, what are you going to do with it? I'll tell you what we're going to do with it. We're going to save that up for a New Year's episode, right? We're going to talk about lifestyle resolutions. We're going to do New Year's bingo. We're going to play bingo because we did a dirty bucket list episode 65 where we talked about all the possible dirty bucket list items swingers have. Our bucket list is probably dirtier. But some were things we had never thought of. We didn't really want. They weren't really our bucket list. So we talk about it all the time. We're going to have a bingo card. And so he's going to create his, I don't know, 25. I'm going to create my 25 and we'll see where we overlap. And let's see how many we can mark off in the new year. Let's have fun. Let's do it. Because our training wheels came off a year ago pretty much this month. And I think we're going to go to full unicycle for the next year. Yeah. Okay. We are just going to lose that second wheel. We're like rocket boosters on the back of that thing. That's like the year after right now. We're just going to be one wheel in it. You know, I was looking at your insta feed the other day. Is it my insta feed? Oh, it is my insta feed. It's terrible. The algorithm is like crazy crack. They know that I like young guys. It's addictive as fuck. And I'm getting, you know what I'm going to say, right? Yeah, it's so hot. I love it. It knows you way too well. Your whole damn feet is just shirtless guys dancing around. I do really like a nice torso and you know it. Speaking of young shirtless guys. Oh yeah. That's my favorite. I was reading some the other day about what careers are the biggest turnoff for a serious relationship. I don't want to say because I might offend people who are listening. It's all right. Policeman police. Freeze. That's right. Law enforcement is up there. Not that they can't be hot. Keep going. What's next? Fireman. No. Really? Fireman they want to marry. Absolutely. I mean, they're hot, hot as fuck. Yeah, there ain't no firefighter. I have not played with a fireman yet. Let's see how many of these we've played with. Okay. How about a porn star? Out to the cat. Got porn boy. How about a flight attendant? Leo. A flight attendant. Leo got flight attendant. How about doctors, nurses? We've had a nurse have not had a doctor. We had a couple of nurses. Presse amigas. Although I have a hot doctor for real. You said if he actually was on the prowl, I could have him. Which one was a hot doctor? My real hot doctor. Oh, you're talking about your OB. He knows all my nooks and crannies. Can you imagine if you actually dragged that thing into real life? It could have happened. That would be wild. But it would be wild. You could never go back to him again. There's no way you could do that. You could have put yourself in the stirrups with a straight face. If it went really well. You would hear porn music playing in the back of every single time. Who has played it? OB. You know what? If you have played with your OB, slide it into your DM. Yeah, our DMs. Because I got to know, I think most OBs are married. So I'm going to say it's probably pretty slow. You will go in the dirty swinger hall of fame if you've played with your OB. Are these the top? Turn off careers. Turn off careers. For serious relationships. Oh, flight attendant. Essentially, it's saying these are people that having a serious relationship would be a strain. Okay, nurse. Oh, because they might work all night. These are wildest fun. Yeah. You know that. I like all these people. So I think they're wrong. Oh, no, it didn't say who to play with. They're a hell of a lot fun to play with. It's just saying they travel a lot and blah, blah, blah. Stippers. We about to get it on. Take over the throne. Yeah, that's probably not a good long term relationship. DJs. I like DJ Sunshine. Influencers, OF Girls. We're going to get one of them. I think we can fix her. Comedians. Hey, Rick James, bitch. And horse girl. I don't want a comedian in bed because it would not be sexy. He'd be telling jokes the whole time because while you tell some jokes, I feel personally attacked over here in the bedroom. You tone that down and you are actually pretty damn sexy. A sexy comedian. Is that an oxymoron? I think it is. But you do. You talk more in the MFMs because you like to lighten the tension a little bit. I'm trying to ease the mood. And you don't do that with the ladies. You're pretty mum. Yeah, you're right. I'm all business. Fascinating. I mean, your mouth's often busy, but not always. I am busy. That's true. Girls, one cock, four girls. We have on tat one cock, three girls. I'm coming with Sandra D. Yeah. I don't know why. Might happen. No, I think that's 100 percent going to happen. When am I going to get? Blowing up our phone. Three cocks. Hmm. I have to pour in a word. Let's save that for the bingo list. New Year's bingo list. Okay, okay, okay. Hit me. We were watching a show the other night, Swing Town. Totally passed us by. Never saw it. I saw somebody mention it. We thought, let's track it down. And it's damn good. The first thing about it is, is it shocks the everloving hell out of you. Because it's on network TV. It was on CBS, apparently. And you're like, there's threesomes, there's swinging. Open marriage, quailoos, cocaine. And apparently everybody in the 70s was really hot. Speaking of the swing in 70s, what you're feeling on waterbeds? You ever laid on one of them? I have. They have some at like the kids museums for the kids to bounce on. I don't like them at all. I can't imagine sleeping on one. I hear some people swear by them. It's like some giant water balloon. They should have a waterbed in every swinger club. Ooh. That would be fun. But what's the fun? I don't like it. I don't like it.ickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenickenicken tidbits about swinging. We get a lot of DMs from people. They have questions, newbie questions that don't really deserve an entire pod, but they're really good questions. So we'll put our useless information to good use. Yeah, so Leo's gonna come up with some, I'm gonna come up, we'll bring them to the table without knowing what the other is bringing because we don't like to script things, and we're just gonna riff on those. Speaking of Sandra D in LA. I got chills, they're multiplying. Last time we were in LA, we had to make a run to the sex toy shop to get you a vibrator. We did because I was gonna have an MFM and my poor little vibrator had died. I've not been to a sex store shop in quite some time because sex store shop, I mean, it's all Amazon. And honestly, you're the one that buys them all for me anyway. Well, we bought a petite Hitachi magic wand. Oh yes, yes. I didn't know they made such a thing. And it's actually my favorite go-to vibrator for travel now. I read that sometime in the early aughts, Hitachi decided they didn't want their name associated with the magic wand anymore and they discontinued it. Really? So it's just called a magic wand now? It's called the original magic wand and they license it to a company in the U.S. It's not Hitachi even though we sit and call it Hitachi. In fact, we met somebody at Naughty. His first name was Hitachi. That's right. And he went dressed as, guess what, a magic wand. Yeah, it's like Google, right? You say Google it. It's a Hitachi. Everybody knows it's a Hitachi. It hasn't been Hitachi in how long? Well, see, I don't know one thing that Hitachi makes besides a sex toy. Well, they make electronics, right? You know, gadgets. I don't know. I guess they didn't want it associated with the most famous sex toy ever invented. I had no idea. We should tell him Hitachi. It's not really called a Hitachi magic wand. It's a hell of a branding campaign, right? Yeah. You think the magic wand is too powerful? No, I love the magic wand. It's got like two settings like and oh, yeah. And I'm going to go to town on the one. I think you could use it like on the outside of your underwear or put it against your forearm, like the back of your hand to vibrate. Oh, I know. And then it'll make you if you have your fingers inside of me, it'll make you kind of vibrate. We haven't tried that yet. Bingo. Okay. Tonight. Maybe. We're going to have 36 sex positions of us together because it's just you and me, babe. It's just you and me. Oh. Are you getting sick of me yet? No, but I am definitely getting anxious here. I am ready to get back out on the road and do another 18 months straight. What do you think? I am and I'm ready to go hard and go fast and I'm ready for some new adventures. We're going to drive the car without brakes. How about that? Starting with the AVNs. Actually, starting with New Year's Eve. Yes. And then we'll probably do something between New Year's Eve and the AVNs. Before the AVNs, then the AVNs. And then who knows from there? Well, actually, I think we do know. This is called foreshadowing. We don't know. We're going back to Vegas in February. We're not going to talk about that yet. foreshadowing happens when clues in a story hint at future events. And then we got lots of other things planned just in various locales. Not going to say yet because we're not really sure, but we're talking like splash event. Of course, we've got naughty. I even got a temptation cruise kind of floating in my head. I don't really know what we're going to do. We'll probably go on the bliss cruise in November 2026. Probably. We haven't booked it yet, so don't hold us to it. OK. What are we talking about tonight? It's very similar to how you mentioned us watching Swing Town the other night. We are going to talk about how to get your girl on board. Oh, like how to get your girl on board to swing. Yeah, like how do you get me on board to swing, honey? Well, see, that goes back to us saying that we're not really swingers. And we didn't really do it like that where he had, at least I don't think so, unless tonight's the night of honesty and transparency. That wasn't what he had in mind. Let me get my wife into swinging, right? We like sexy fun and adding an extra person. I know, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about, of course, our first Swinger Club and how we got from point A to point B. I don't think you had it in your mind. I want to get my cat to a Swinger Club. So you're saying a Psyop psychological operation. Is that what that is? I have no idea. Basically how to manipulate your partner into warming to the idea. I would say that's generally how it always is. One partner is more interested than the other. They've maybe come across it, done some Reddit research, maybe found a podcast and they want to kind of slowly coax their partner into this might be a really great idea. Like a frog in the pot. Is that what you did with me? You put the frog in the pot and you put the water in. And he's just happy because it's water. Boil it slowly. By the time it's boiling, I think that's a horrible thing. That's a really horrible. It's awful. So is that what you did with me? How do you like frog legs? Are you going to answer my question? Well, answer me. How do you like frog legs? Talk about frog in a pot. I don't. Sounds cruel and unusual. I think I mind frog legs. It tastes like chicken. That's fine. I can handle that. I don't like rubbery stuff. I think it's kind of an institution. Every time you go to Paris and I don't really like a snail. Yes, snails are good if they have garlic butter on them. It's basically the sauce. You can smother anything in sauce. The problem with frog legs is when they serve them, they look like frog legs. That's true. It is like a frog on its back with his legs splayed out wide. I am not going to eat a chicken that sits there and looks like a chicken. That's a good point. I know you could buy the rotisserie chickens at Costco and they look like a chicken. But I very quickly cut that up and then it just looks like a slice of meat. Are you still selling the Costco chickens in that plastic bag instead of the hard plastic? Yeah, they don't listen to us. It is because it's so greasy and it's so drippy. I have to scoop that damn thing out with my hands. I hate it every time. Our oven still isn't fixed. No. So this holiday, we're going to cook another ham in the microwave. What do you think? Yeah, we didn't actually have Chinese takeout people. I actually made some good, yummy food. It was really good. Oh, thank you. Apparently we don't need an oven. I'm really creative. So when I cook stuff, I just kind of put a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And it just all seems to turn out. If we're in Swingtown, you could have just taken the turkey next door to our lovely, good-looking neighbors. It probably would have had like one of those marshmallow fruitcake kind of things that they served in the 70s because that's what they were serving on Swingtown. Oh, that sounds gross. I'm going to go back to the question at hand. I know they would have had a porn stash next door. Oh, yeah, I really like porn stashes. That's probably why I like the show so much. There's a lot of porn stashes. There are a lot of porn stashes. There's a there's there's there's really hot. I'm going to go back to the question at hand. How do you get your woman on board? How do you get your partner on board? Because it's usually the guy who wants to bring the girl along slowly. Is that what you were doing with me all along? No, 100%. No. But you did admit that when we went to La Masque, you did know it was a swinger club. I did. And you just recently let me know about that because it was called a Libertine club. Woman, we are looking at how to pronounce Libertine. Libertine from French Libertine. Man. So what did you think was going to happen? Lost in translation. Said Swinger Club. Man. So I did know that it was a swimmer club. He didn't tell me. And I had that impression of like those swing and 70s. I was like creepy, creepy. I don't want nothing to do with that. Why did we end up there? I thought maybe it'd be sexy that there would be kind of a sexually charged environment. Did you think we'd be making up and swing in? But we didn't. But I know. But did you think that was a possibility or that didn't seem to be in the back of your mind? I literally pictured us going in there, grabbing a drink, sitting on a couch and just taking it in. Kind of like we've been watching the theater show Ket in Paris where the ladies are up there doing a strip tease, almost like going down on each other. But it wasn't live. It's not real. It's a performance. You wanted it to be real. I mean, if you really want the blueprint, I think it starts when you're Netflix and a chillin to pick some strategic shows to put on there first. I agree. You know, the bottom line is actually we're going to back it up. Even before that, here's how you get your girl on board. You need to amp up your sex life. You should blindfold her and then there's not. And it's Leo. He's going to come out of the birthday cake. My would be you have. No, but seriously, and then a stream of guys come in here. Dressed like firefighters, they whip off the stripper pants. My God, I would be in 11th heaven. Well, you know, some people do that where they go to like a strip club. Yes. And that's a baby step. You do know I have some things in order and you are messing me up, dude. Yeah, let me stop right there. So before we even go to a strip club, before we watch a Swinger based TV or movie. Yeah, what's first? You need to get your partner probably more sexually charged because for a lot of people, they're doing it because we're in Bobby mode, we're in parent mode, we're not as hot as socks off during love making is what you say. Start going on some weekends overnights where you're not in your marital bed. But what if my feet are cold? Then you have to get sexy socks. Maybe it's cold outside. I'm still going to rip those socks off you. I don't care. And then I'm going to slap your ass. That's really what we did. You know, if you think about it, although you are saying you weren't trying to get me for the lifestyle, I don't like that word. So take that word back. I ain't doing nothing of the sort. Well, I'm serious. So really, before we got into the lifestyle, our pre lifestyle journey, it really was like two years of us going to Vegas, have overnight hotel sexcations, lots and lots of toys, lots of sexy fun that didn't involve any extra people. We had lots of role play. He had a cop costume. I had handcuffs. I mean, all that sexy role play stuff, you need to do it again. And that's really how you start without ever mentioning, let me bring some extra people into the bedroom. You're also missing one key ingredient. And what would that be? There was probably a fair amount of drinking. And there were probably a fair amount of altered states. I think that's very common, the liquid courage. I've heard so many people who say when my wife has had three to four drinks, oh, man, she gets so horny. And maybe that's where you need to go in order to amp it up. Is there's going to be some people out there that are clutching their pearls. But if you want to lower your inhibitions, there's one surefire way to do so. And especially if you're just having sexy fun amongst yourselves, it's just your partner, right? So maybe you need to get that stick out of your butt. Some people might like that. But they don't know they like it yet, see, because they haven't gone down that path. But, you know, that's when we bought our entire arsenal. That was a fun arsenal of sex toys. It was all kind of during those two years. You were like Amazoning everything. I was sex crazed. Oh, you were absolutely sex crazed because you were my personal porn star. Am I still your porn star? Absolutely. You might have to share billing, though, because I have some porn stars in mind. Oh, I was thinking the opposite. I was thinking if you looked at where we got a little bit of a laundry list of porn stars in our bedroom. Oh, yes, we have. You know, it should be a bingo card list to get a bunch of people together that don't know each other, but we know all of them. Oh, that would be we'd be so jealous. We could not do that. We just get them all to show up. Are you thinking like all girls? We could throw a party like a Halloween party. Yeah, we could like host it at somebody's a swagger club because we can't put it at our house. And then invite a lot of it. Like everybody could meet the porn boy, could meet shy guys, Hitler's mom, could meet flight attendant. Everybody can meet each other and you can all see who we like. Right. Sweet peach. Yeah, I like that. Surfer boy. My high boss babe. Bruce G. Oh, we just going to go down to this. All right, I'll see you. Let's bring Edward. Oh, OK. But yeah, let's get back to the topic at hand. How do you get your partner on board? Because I get this question a lot, especially from guys who are like, I really, really want to explore a swagger club. I really want to have an MFM, but I don't know how to get my wife on board. I'm going to be honest with you, though, if you're a guy out there and your wife is not really warm into the idea, it is true that some kind of altered state, whether you're doing a little bit of drinking or maybe you're smoking a little, right? Or other things. Yeah. That is a way to kick off the rust. Yeah, to basically kick off the moral compass that is deeply ingrained in a lot of people. My moral compass always points south. You don't have a moral compass. That's not true. He actually does, but it's a little tawdry. It is true. I actually do in all the right places. I am a Southern gentleman at heart. You are sweet, sweet. But besides in the bedroom, getting he said, getting your wife a little tipsy, you need to understand that this could be a very long process. We're not talking one sexcation. It might be months, it might be years, and you just need to be OK, because you can't go that fast, because you're going to scare. You'll be chipping away at a solid block of marble, like you are carving Michelangelo's David before we started before we were in Venus, Demilo. Venus, Demilo is really hot. Yeah, let's go with Venus, Demilo. Although David and David, Demilo would be a great couple swap. Yeah. And we could say that now because it doesn't just have to be in our imagination. We used to have just celeb couple swaps or we'd like, we'll get it all to them. But now it's like real. Yeah, now we could just go to historical figures. Why not? But in any case, that is really how you start in with us before we started, like going to the live sex shows. Can you believe that we are where we are right now? What about the Mona Lisa? How far I've come. I mean, she's kind of pretty, but you're not sure, right? I'm not sure she's actually attractive. I think she's a lot of hype. Yeah, she's all hype. And if you've seen her live, which we have, it's tiny. Yeah, we've seen her a couple of times and the actual painting is what? A couple of feet by couple of feet. Yeah, and it's in an entire room and you try to get yourself your head. She's blind glass. Take a selfie, which we have sitting on our wall. Yes, they ought to put her in another section entirely in the Louvre because how many people go to the Louvre? Just to see the Mona Lisa. That's the only reason why we go. Imagine if Mona Lisa was hot, though. She has those eyes that follow you around the room. Imagine she was a nude. Yeah, like some Botticellis because they were nude. That's who you're going deep. I know, I like to go deep. All I know is you actually like to go Michelangelo, Leonardo, Raphael and Donatello because those are the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I don't know how many of them they are. So you got to know that it's going to take time and it has to start with sexy fun between the two of you. Then you can start with watching these shows or some Swinger porn, MFM porn. I've heard people say that they played our podcast. So I think that somewhere out there, we are bringing the party to a lot of newbie couples. Bringing the party. We are indoctrinating people. We're apparently people. Take that back to our bedroom. Oh, my gosh. You know what? My favorite, favorite, favorite porn is. I think everybody who enters our bedroom, they come on their own accord. And they have a lot of fun. We are hella fun. Be honest with you. If you make it to our bedroom, you pretty special. Our bedroom is not our bedroom at home. We do up our hotel rooms. So it is just fun because this is what we were doing pre-lifestyle. This is the hotel room we had because we're like, I want it to be fun. If I'm going to be dressing up like Alice in Wonderland, because I did do that. Like a party or something. I think the bottom line is that you have to find out what your gateway drug is to the lifestyle. It could be literally you're talking about something that lowers your inhibitions, or it can be some kind of light introduction to having an extra person in your bed. Whether that be watching sexy TV. That's E&M. Well, you know what a lot of people do? They bring in toys. Let's say your husband is itching to have an MFM, two dicks in the room, right? He thinks that's really hot and he wants to get you on board. He might start with having an extra dildo in the room and she kind of simulates sucking one, taking one. A lot of guys do that. The toys are a really big way to get started, kind of opening up the possibilities. I was trying to figure out where you were going with that because I thought, how many guys are envisioning an MFM first? They're probably envisioning an MFF. But you're right. I see a lot of guys that envision the MFM. I don't think you can mimic an MFM. Sometimes they might even practice and do like some DP with toys and the whites all on board. Get one of them silicone. You want a sex machine for me? I did buy a sex machine. It was all leading up to this. I know it. I'm not sure I believe him, guys. OK, somewhere you're going to find a sex machine file on the computer and you're going to crack it open. And it's just going to be let's get cat to a swimmer program. It's all been leading up to this moment. I think why did you get a sex machine because you wanted to DP me? Yeah, that probably was because you wanted to watch something foreign going in and out of me since you can't really watch it while you're doing it. What was the reason? They say if you woke up tomorrow and you were the opposite sex, what's the first thing you would do? You said that you would be stuck inside of me. If tomorrow you woke up and you had a hard cock, I'd make an appendage hanging on you. I would be touching it to see if I get it hard. Don't bring that near me. And then I want to see if I could make it squirt. You have an orifice. It sounded fun. We're going to get a sex machine. You guys know that we have a sex machine. I never liked it. I don't think we've ever used it. I didn't like it because we're going to bring it out for pushing. We're going to see how she likes it. She probably liked it, but I was not in that place. I was in that two year pre-lifestyle where he better not bring up anything like the word swinger. It was like a hundred bucks. I know it was one of the more degenerate purchases and it's been collecting. Nobody believes you. Kind of like the massage table that we have. I know that's hot there. Nobody believes you that you weren't really trying to bring me along all this time. He really just wanted to have more degenerate sex with me that didn't involve other people. And I know it. I mean, that's really all it was. We talking about Playboy Swing TV. If you're going to go and you're going to watch a TV show. That would be number one. I think you can find old episodes of it on Pornhub. Oh, you just look up Playboy Swing TV and it's there free for the taking. Find it. Bite-sized vignettes. And they're not all sexy, but because it's Playboy TV, it's full nudity, full sex is on display. But it feels like a reality show. There's a loose story to it where it's a newbie couple. They come on. They come into a house filled with OG swingers to see if the lifestyle is right for them. And it's actually a really great show because you get to see real emotions and like, do I like this? It made you decide to make me learn how to squirt. That's because I saw somebody else, one of the OGs, smoothies way in with a newbie couple. A really cute young galley. Remember, and you said, oh, no. I said, that is not going to happen on my watch where somebody comes in and says, here, I'm going to do a first with your wife. The Playboy Swing TV would be a great gateway drug to the lifestyle. It would. It would. Absolutely. You could also, if your wife is on board with watching some porn while you're having fun with her, especially on one of these sexcations, buy one of those $7 porn in Vegas or something. Watch some of the group porn. You talking about hotel porn? Well, you can't really watch anything else on their TVs. We try to hijack them. I feel so antiquated. I know. It feels like you're in an adult bookstore. It's bad porn, but good porn. We've been in an adult bookstore a couple of times in our lives. One of them was where I said, no. One was in Paris. Oh, you talking about the real. No. That was it. That was such a new. How are we going to live that one down? That was such a new. It would have been very early on. It wouldn't have even been a threesome. You just wanted her to watch. We go into a Parisian adult. Oh, that's another thing. You probably start out by, hey, let's do some public sex. Let's do some. We were doing that long before. It's always let's go to like a child's playground at two in the morning, honey. I went in there and that shopkeeper, you paid him like five euro, hands you the skeleton key. It's for a private room downstairs. You walk down this dark staircase and your first greeted. I'm literally holding his hand and like probably yanking him back up the stairs. Like, what are you doing? Oh, yeah. Get me out of here. I'm dragging you kicking and screaming. Oh my gosh. And there's this little viewing theater. I clearly had not had enough to drink that night. I was not prepared. And there might have been like 10 seats looking at a big projector screen. Not 10 people. And that's not where we were going to be. There was nobody in there. We're going to go walking right on pass to the private room, except there was one person, a really cute girl sitting there by herself. And she's playing with a. She had a toy. She was playing with herself, watching. And that's all. There were no men. Nobody else. That night. I know. You made your way to the room. I hung back. But you didn't tell me when I talked to her and I said, you know, we're going to go into the private room. And if you wanted, you're welcome to come in and watch us. And this was all pre-lifestyle still for us. We'd never set foot in a swinger club. We did the whole exhibition stuff, going to live sex shows, having girls watch us. That was kind of part of our journey before we ever even heard the word swinger and this was part of it. Five foot nothing, long, raven hair. And we went into the room, closed the door. So mad at me. And about 15 minutes in. And you went. The hell is knocking at the door. See, it's all about communication. And of course, I didn't know that at the time and you didn't tell me what was on your mind. So I didn't have time to think about it and say, OK, OK, OK. We were in a complete state of undress. I went to the door, cracked it open, and there she sat with these big saucer eyes looking at me and he just invited her to come watch. Right. You said, come watch a live sex show. You didn't. No, I didn't say it was going to be a threesome because we weren't in that mode. It should have been. She was sitting there ready to come in and we even had a little couch in the room that she could sit on. So tailor made. And it would have been so. We've been down to that same bookstore years later to try to see. Open anymore. No, it was not open. I think we went downstairs and we just couldn't reenact that. I totally missed that one. Close to no longer there. So missed opportunity. What do you think the chances are that we'll ever walk into an adult bookstore in the basement? It'll never happen. And there'll be some cute single girl down there. You know what? Stuart Scott told us we weren't ready for that yet. What the segment? Stuart Scott. Out of his day or mine. Boo, yeah. She has some genus equa and there was some genus. Well, you know, when that happened, Ivan Boomerangs, because it felt really bad once you described it and you said I wasn't trying to have a threesome. I mean, you didn't say the word threesome, but I just wanted her to watch. I thought it would be hot. I think shortly after that, we did then start with the theater show. Ket. We went into the little room where the girl watched us have sex. Yes. So it more than just watches have sex. Made me say yes. So that's why it happened. And you know what else those experiences do for you as a newbie couple? You have these near misses that were almost too good to be true. And what it does is it hones your skills to the next time you have something that you know, instinctually, it's a great choice. Even if you feel a little bit of hesitation, especially as the wife, like, oh, my God, what am I doing? You just pull the trigger and say, yes. Yeah. And it I really did. I slingshot it and said yes to everything. And we're really good at that. We know exactly what we like. And when we see what we like, there's no hesitation. Yeah. And sometimes it can seem like impetuous, crazy train. We are a little bit of a war on the tracks because there's not a whole lot of because we had a few missed opportunities in our two years. And we are striving not to have those again. If we see something we like, we're going to go for it because things can fall through your grasp. I think the one thing that our Swinger Guardian Angel, Stuart Scott knows all too well about us is if you put something in front of us that's good, we're going to know what to do with it. Exactly what to do with it. Right. Which, you know, early on, we had things right in front of us that were really good and we didn't know what to do with it and we fumbled it and went ahead and the other team got an interception. Well, so much of the lifestyle is based on luck and randomness. You have to have a good instinct when something is really great in front of you. You cannot hesitate because the moment can pass so quickly. Going back to how to get your partner on board because this is so common that it's one partner that wants to do it, has been introduced to it and he wants to bring that partner on board. We're talking about Playboy Swing TV. Fantastic. If your partner is already maybe getting more highly sexualized and role play and toys and getting a little more freaky. But my favorite porn of all time. Oh, yes. And it's really what probably got me into MFMs and why I was like, I like guys, honey, is Erica Luss, horny beast. Yeah. So it's a girl director and she's filming porn, I think really from a woman's perspective, which I think is really cool. We did see a documentary on her way after the fact more recently. And she really is trying to make an artistic, sensual, sexual movie that's lacking in all of porn. Well, guys are degenerates and you just want to see something go in the hole. Girls tend to be a lot softer, emotional creatures, which is why we like foreplay so much. Right. You're talking about me keeping my jeans on for longer during these. Yes. Pussy Galore and I have decided you get and all the guys were with you shuck off your pants too fast and we'd like the slow burn. Oh, feel how hard lock on my button flies. Is that my cock cage? No. No damn cock cage. I think I'd break out of a cock cage anyway. So. But you have to see horny beast. She's this beautiful girl with like this long flowing dress. It didn't have much of a story. It was more of a very short vignette. Oh, you're talking about a very specific. Got it. All the guys are wearing like masks that make them look like animals. Like you said that you went back recently to go look at one of those and you examined it with a little more. Jean-Marie Poix. Yeah. And I did. Some of the guys underneath those masks, you could tell they might not be your first choice. So I did tell you that I could if they all were fit from the neck down and they were all wearing like one of those horny beast mask, I could have like a. They could be bridge rolls underneath the mask is what you're saying. It is just so hot. You have to see it. You can get it. I think at her website, you know, you could download it on a bit torrent, whatever. Cool. Is she good stuff? French. I think she's French. She's French. Yeah. It's a real. She's done some really great. She was in some episode of turned on. What was that? The Netflix thing? That's the one we're talking about. Like girls turned on girls turned on and they do an interview of her. They talk all about the documentary portion of it. And she's a total boss, bitch. She's really cool. I like what she's doing. I think there's probably not enough of that. But you can bring this kind of thing into the bedroom with your significant other and not say, hey, honey, you want to do that. You can't just kind of barrel forward. You're just like, well, that was kind of hot. What did you think of that? You always need to kind of lay back a little and to see kind of, OK, what do they think of this? Is it also worth saying that some people are just not going to be able to convince their significant other to get on board with something like this? Because absolutely. There's definitely some people that I see in our orbit. In our vanilla world. There's no way they would ever do anything like this. So we have to have a screw loose to do this, even though I feel very strongly it's just the best screw loose ever. There's no question about it. I think everybody in the lifestyle has a screw loose. And we said before that people are a lot more fun when your screws are a little bit looser rather than too tight. Well, you know, we, besides Swing Town, we also saw a recent show. It's called American Swing. And it was a documentary of almost like the first Swinger Club ever in the states. And these are hard to find. I think I put links on them on the website. But yeah, they're hard to find. We download them because we don't want to watch them on Prime or Netflix because people might see what we're watching. What do you got that under? Like top Swinger movies? Top Swinger movies. You look that up. You'll probably find it up in the top one or two. But what was neat about American Swing is it was a club in the 70s, very much the swing in 70s in New York. Oh, my God, they had vintage footage and it was so hot. It felt like a very free uninhibited time in sort of the sexual revolution. Yeah, I guess so. And but what was interesting is in some of the interviews people did and people talking, they felt the same way. They were like buzzy afterwards. Oh, my God, that was just so exciting. You could see people were talking about it. I don't know, 30 years later, 40 years later, they still have a rye grin remembering that time. Oh, my gosh, they had some old couples on there. Yes, who are adorable. Getting down in the 70s. And they showed some photos of them. And they had a twinkle in their eye. And there was not a regrettable to be found. And it started very much couple centric couples who wanted to swap. Exactly what we're doing today. It was a very interesting documentary. It then took a turn for the worst because I think it's really fascinating to study the history of the lifestyle a little bit. They threw up a picture of a magazine called Swinger's Cordelet. It looked like that must be the type of magazine they talk about where you would send your Polaroid picture in the mail to a P.O. box. That must have been what you got. It's really fascinating because I wonder if you get something like that off of eBay. That would be fun to read off something like that on a podcast. Because this has been going on swinging, you know, at least since the 70s, but probably before that. But really, you just feel like right under your noses, like Swing Town. It's an adorable show. It's rather hot. I mean, it starts out with a pilot and a flight attendant and a threesome. So you knew we were hooked. Like we were like, I am here for it. All this stuff. It's just such a secret, but it's not a secret. But I just think that there's some people that no amount of coaxing, no amount of strategizing that you could really get them to warm to the idea because some people are just boring. I mean, in their lives, they're happier being a plant safe person. And so it's on the porch. If you're that husband of that wife and you're like, maybe you've got a bit of a dead bedroom and you're really trying to amp things up, definitely don't cheat, but keep trying to work on her to just amp up the sex life. And so maybe you're never going to get to swinging, but you could at least have a hot time between the two of you. For a lot of couples, it's really about doing the big fall because at some point when you first met your significant other, it was probably pretty hot and heavy. Oh my God. You were getting it on the backseat of the car. You were getting it on. I can't even tell you. Stumbling out of the bar and falling into bed together. Some of the stuff that we got up to when we met. Oh, yeah. It was so tawdry. He's like, we did that in the first week. Well, the bottom line is the reason that we arrived to where we are is because we've always been a little while. There's no question about. You've always been a little while. And you've always said yes. I know, but it's because, you know what? I like a bad boy. It's why I like tattoos. It's why I like motorcycles. I like a bad boy. And you are my prototypical bad boy. And so if I can get another bad boy in the bedroom, I am doubly happy. OK. Yeah. See if we can make that happen. OK, please. We talk about bad boys. What about bad girls? I like baddies, too. Yeah. Yeah, I like baddies, too. Yeah. And so I wonder how many people in the lifestyle share that commonality where deep down they had that capacity to do wild things or take little risks, take chances in their lives leading up to the lifestyle. I bet it's a lot. I don't really know. I mean, people come from all walks of life. Are you really wired in such a way that you might be more predisposed to taking a chance to enter the lifestyle or E&M rather than somebody who was buttoned up? It's true. Socks on in the bedroom. Lights off. They decided I'm just going to go ahead and the wheels are going to come flying off. If your feet really got cold while we were having sex. Well, you know, I would get you my rainbow, bright, colored socks that go up to my knees and I'll stick them on you. What am I going to be like? Is that the roller skater? Do you know? OK, this is a fun one. That might look a little sus. While we were in our whole let's have sex, Cations, before we knew what the lifestyle was, Leo decided I should be roller girl and we would go up to San Francisco and stay the night at this hotel. We had like a really big place like with the kitchen and everything, almost like an Airbnb. And I had some white roller skates and I wore my knee high rainbow colored stripe socks and I would roll around and then you would take me with my skates up in the air. Oh my God. It was a problem because you could like knock a tooth out if you hit one of those. Those skates were heavy. If you haven't gone so far to get your wife on board that you bought her a roller girl outfit, then you're not trying hard enough. I come sauntering into the bedroom like Dirk Diggler. What other outfits do I have? You bought me an Alice in Wonderland outfit. Mm hmm. I bought you a Playboy Bunny. Yeah, I've got a Playboy Bunny. I bought you the whole Arabian Princess outfit to surprise you. That was one of the few. I bought you like a French made out. It was almost like a belly dancer. What? You had the stuff over your mouth. Yeah. And I jingled. I had all this stuff so I could jingle. And I played some song and then not to be left out, Leo bought him some outfits because, you know, he had to be Hugh Hefner. Yeah, I don't wear a whole lot of outfits in the bedroom. Honestly, I like you with jeans. Boots really get me off. Really? Because I like a country boy who's bad. Most of our gals, I think they like to keep it simple. I don't think they do. They just don't tell you what they want. They probably think they want to see me dress up. I think they would love to have you dress up like a cop. I use reserve there for a Halloween dress up. Oh, yeah. And then have those pants be a little bit stripper and then you can kind of rub against them. You have the right to remain sexy. Yes. Yeah. So if you haven't done all this in your pre-lifestyle phase, then you're just not trying hard enough and you've got to bring out all the toys. We were talking the other day. Get a sex machine when it comes to the dating app landscape. Uh huh. It's a dumpster fire. It is such a dumpster fire. And one of the main aspects to remember. I'm so happy that I get to have essentially like one night stands, but with you. Well, that's essentially what you are doing. The first time you did that, where we went into a guy's apartment, a guy's messy apartment. Oh, I got it was so hot and tawdry. And I told him at the end of it, I had a sanctioned one night. I'm having a one night stand. And here I am. It's fun. But the dirty little secret of the dating apps is that they're largely looks based. They're not largely looks based. I mean, you could see how quickly I just swipe. You don't give people much of a chance. So the trope is rule number one, be attractive. Rule number two, don't be unattractive. But I disagree with rule number two. I think rule number two should be don't be boring. So have an interesting profile. And so that goes back to the kind of people that explore E&M dynamics are fun and interesting. I think they're not scared, probably aren't boring people by their very nature. You're right. And you know, one other thing, I came across somebody who was talking and they mentioned how this couple, they're having difficult time finding what they were looking for. They're feeling a little shy. And her reply was don't be shy. Shyness is one of the worst traits that you can have as a swing. I mean, yeah, if you want to have a success in the lifestyle, you need to turn that shyness around. You need to not be introverted. You need to turn the extrovertedness on. Unless you're the hottest couple. It doesn't matter. You can be the hottest couple. No one is going to talk to you if you don't open your mouth. It's true. It's 100% true. It's one of those newbie misconceptions that when you first step foot in a club, you think, oh my God, they're all going to try to jump over me. And it turns out they're going to ignore you. Nobody's going to even talk to you. Yeah. And so even though you feel like I'm shy, I'm so introverted, I'm scared to say anything. What they said on that American swing documentary, it holds true today. The people are so friendly. They really are. Lifestyle folk are the nicest people I've ever met in my entire life. Hands down. And so with that said, I do think you can be shy, but you can find your way to the lifestyle. But to be successful. I'm not sure if you can find your way to the lifestyle if you're boring by your very nature. OK, because you just need to be able to take a chance. It's a little bit taking a walk on the wild side. Either that or you'll be washed out pretty quick when you find out that it's a battlefield out there. Yeah. The lifestyle is not for the faint of heart. It can be difficult at times. One of the things we talk about is that you will have as many lows as you have highs. And in fact, we have had some of the girls in our life are unicorn friends. And on occasion, they've come to us and said because they're in the dating dumpster fire, of which I am really not a part of because I have Leo at the end of the day. Anybody that ghosts me, any no repeats. I got Leo. It's OK. And these single gals don't have that buffer. And they'll say from time to time down, I'm having a tough day right now because guys suck. And I can't imagine you not having the backstop of me to root you on to pick you up when you're feeling down. And so when they'll slide in and they'll say that we want to just reach out, give them a hug, lift them up. One of the things we've been doing is we tell them to listen to one of our previous pods that I recorded while I was deep in the throes of a total oof of a weekend. I did. I think I was in the middle of an oof. Oh, yeah. I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you there. You had three MFFs that weekend, man, whore. I'm not sure if that's true. You did. You did. That was who we got ghosted. That was your that was the only oof you've ever had. OK, I've got a smack. OK, let's all cheer for Kat for the new year. It's what about that was my. So ever you're feeling low and it's going to happen, you are absolutely going to hit a pothole. You'll be in a valley. Everybody's going to hit potholes. You're going to hit a lot of potholes. Episodes number 59. Boo, you got ghosted, which is kind of funny because it directly followed number 58, which was a single male Bible where I was an absolute rapture from Surfer Boy. So it made yours even worse because contrast. I was still in such an R.E. So you're saying on the same day we recorded boo, we got ghosted or I got, which, by the way, it just means that it was a guy we'd never met before. Right. We know us left hanging at the hotel, but we are going to make that one happen. We have yet to make it seal the deal. But we tried it. She's in our phone. But so that's 59 and then 61 was where I had the major oof and you had the three MFFs. That's interesting that they kind of very close together. Yeah, we were starting to have valley ourselves at that time. We were in the valley of the shadow of death. Bring it on. I'm going back to our topic at hand, dude. Don't let me stop. Yeah. I think it's also a lot of fun if you're already kind of getting into this whole being a little kinkier, take a sexual compatibility quiz like the Mojo upgrade. Mojo quiz. We took one of those live on air. What's the number? 30. OK. And it was right before we met Lana, actually. And it talks all about, would you ever want to have a threesome? Do you like anal? Do you like oral? I mean, it's everything and it really helps you kind of kickstart that sexual exploration with your partner. That's actually a pretty good idea is to do a sex compatibility quiz. And the reason is because it opens the discussion. That's low lying fruit. You don't really have to have your guard terribly down. And it's not scary like, oh, what's my wife going to think? You're just trying to be sexier with her. And the Mojo upgrade quiz. I don't know why it's called that. That's weird. But it's such that you take it separately and you only see the answers that you overlap on. So let's say you want to have a gang bang. Wait a minute. Who are you? And you don't want to say that to your partner. But if your partner doesn't say she wants to have a gang bang, she'll never know you said it. So it's kind of neat. We took it together. It protects your good name. It does. In case you are far more degenerate than your partner. But the bottom line is, is it opens discussion. You're like, I never really thought about being blindfolded before. I never thought about that, right? It is true that there are a good number of people that actually use the podcast as a way to introduce their partner, because I would say the majority of the time. It's one person. It's always one person. And sometimes it's the man and sometimes it's the woman. It's probably 50-50. It's no rhyme or reason. It doesn't lean any particular way based on gender. It's just that one of them is a podcast person is more obsessed than the other. And to be fair, I feel like we're pretty good introduction because it's not like we go straight to Poundtown. Right. Don't skip straight to episode 69. We are telling you to go slow and I still hold tight to that. Go really slow. You know, like once let's say you've shown some group play porn, some MFM porn. And let's say your wife is intrigued. I never really thought about that. Then you could introduce the idea of a swinger club or a sex club just to watch. Well, you know, that's an interesting point that you make when you say introducing them to some MFM porn. And the reason I said it is because that sometimes can be a cheat code because the woman feels like if you're trying to bring a woman in, you're almost like trying to cheat on the idea. Her guard might go way up. Bring in the man. You might want to come in with an olive branch offering. Is that why we did MFM so early on? So that's a good point. I guess it probably felt like the lowest lying fruit because I knew that wouldn't be hard to find at all. And you felt it was hot at the time. You're like, that's the kind of porn I watch. It's hot. My wife gets to be the porn star of the porn I've been getting off to. Yeah, a lot of guys watch that because it's a very carnal energy to watch two guys descend on one girl, innocent little lamb. That's right. How long had you been watching D.P. Porn prior to me knowing what it was two years ago? Husbands out there and he's trying to act like he ain't seen some D.P. Porn. He is bullshit. I'm serious. Like how long? Like almost like since the time we met. Since the time we met. God, I didn't even know what that meant until two years ago. That's so absolutely crazy. Like that just boggles my mind. I know there's a lot of ladies out there that probably feel the way I do. And now I'm doing it. Well, you talked about not having kissed a girl two years ago. I had never kissed a girl. No. And you've done considerably more than that. I mean, I've done everything. You're by you have a very strong by tendency. I like girls a lot. And it is fucking hot. I like guys more. Yes. I will find anybody who says it's not fucking hard. Really like girls. And I especially I'm not going to go on a date with a girl by myself because I also like you watching. I like what it does to you. I would almost like to have you watch and not be able to participate. What the segment? Because that would be so hot. I get to participate after some time. Yes, because it would be such a tease. I'm going to dress. God, we could be dancing for you in like this and stripping business attire. Oh, that's sexy. Who's the guy from Fifty Shades? Is Christian Gray. I'm going to dress like Christian Gray. Oh, I'm getting. Do you know I'm getting wet just thinking about? OK, that's so hot. I'm going to sit with some fancy Scotch. Do you think anybody drinks Scotch? It's probably like the worst liquor on the face of the planet. Some people drink Scotch. I would like a. Espresso Martini. Espresso Martini. Yes, please. I'm going to be drinking something. I'll be sitting in a leather bound chair and I will sit and watch for. Five minutes. Ready, set, go. Hoshi, we're going to handcuff him to the chair so he can't get up. I'll gnaw my own arm off my tawdry mind. So once you get your wife a little bit on board, one of the ways you can do that is that is by broaching the subject. What do you think about two guys? Maybe there's something that you slip in there. And I do think the notion of going to a club. You can say I've done some research. We're just going to go and watch people having sex. Call it a Libertine Club. It's easy. And now you know. It works every time. Cats never going to know the difference until two years later, honey. I knew it was a swing or a club. Particularly hot about that was. La Masque. Wearing masks on the way there. We were in the car fixing our masks, speaking at each other, saying, how do I look? Mask. Did you know that Killing Kittens is a swing or event? Kind of a posh in the Mansions event they put on mostly in London. And you're required to wear a masquerade mask until 11 p.m. That's kind of a shitty name, by the way. Killing Kittens. They apparently named it because every time I think it's a guy masturbates, God kills a kitten. No, God, please, no, no, no. That's even worse. First, we're talking about frogs and pods. There's no way I'm going to start talking about killing kittens. No, that's what it's called. I prefer Kinky Rabbit, which is the name of another really posh one down in LA. And that just sounds hot as hell. Kinky Rabbit. I'm putting somebody in a headlock if it comes to Killing Kittens. Not on my watch. But, you know, there was something extremely titillating, but it also felt kind of innocent. The fact that we were putting on Venetian masks before we walked into a club. It felt kind of like a dress up party. It didn't feel like it was just going to be some Greco-Roman orgy. It didn't. And, you know, you're dressed to the nines and you go in and you talk to your partner. You don't need to have boundary talk at this point. If you're trying to coax her in slowly, say, let's just go and feel sexy. Let's just go and watch whatever it gets to get her there. Because what is it? The guys drag the ladies into the lifestyle and they can't drag them out. Isn't that how the saying goes? Because once the ladies get a taste of that desire and it's such a female centric like we get so much out of it, no lady wants to leave. Well, it's the gateway drug to new relationship energy, which is the highest of hot. And the girls are on the pedestals, you know, girls are just sugar and spice and beautiful and sexy. And we do get the lion's share of attention. It is the truth. I like that the hierarchy is the way it is in the lifestyle where the girls control the steering wheel. I think that's a thing of beauty because the men, you know, a lot of guys can be shitty, they can be predatory. They suck donkey balls. Sometimes I feel like there's not enough good guys. Now, maybe a lot of that has to do with single guys. Yeah. I mean, all the guys we've met that we're friends with, we're friends with a lot of couples that we don't necessarily play with. They're wonderful, wonderful people. Yes. It's just we're talking about the people we play with and we don't really play with husbands. We play with single guys and single guys just suck. I think that's probably why the girls in our life gravitate a little bit towards us, is because they can share you fear because, you know, the good ones are taken, right? As far as single guys go, all the good ones are taken. I was going to say that they get to experience share you a lot of the sexy fun. You're welcome. A lot of the spaces in between. I play the long game. But at the same time, we the spaces between because of me will take good care of their feelings and emotions. You know, when we went on this path, we're beyond talking about the topic getting your wife on board, right? We're a full year into our lifestyle journey. And we stumbled upon our first real unicorn encounter, Thruffle turned into this whirlwind affair, essentially. We never knew a year later that that would be one of our main dynamics is unicorns. Because they're supposed to be they're mythical, they're elusive. They live in magical fairyland. Well, I think so many of the girls that we know, they deal with a lot of bullshit. And it could be something as simple as texting somebody and getting ghosted left on red and I get it right back at you. And so I understand it's just I'm not single. And at the end of the day, I got you games that are played in all of the different social dynamics and the dating pool. And I think that largely we don't play any of those games. What you see is what you get. No, we're very much. We are going to compliment we've ever received is when somebody meets us and says, you're just like you sound on the pod. That's an interesting thing you bring up because we were talking just the other day. I was reading some article. It was an actor. Oh, it was a guy who plays on Swing Town on Swing Town. And he was talking about that he was a heartthrob back in the day. And he said it really distorts his reality perception. I don't know as people would expect him to be this character that he plays. They don't care what his real name is because they see him as this character up on screen. And then when they meet in real life, he may not be that character. And we thought what's interesting is a lot of people get to know us based on the pod. And then they meet us after the fact. But then when they meet us, we are exactly the same. But the reason why is because we're just talking about life. Yeah, well, it's us. That's because we're just two. Nobody's not acting. We're not faking it. We ain't fancy. We're just talking in a car, vicar. If we're in your earbuds and we're talking for a hundred hours and then you meet us, we're literally going to be that same person. Right. This is just us. We are cat and Leo. Somebody else. They might be really shy and you meet them in person and they say, oh, wow, you're not quite that character that I thought you played. Pretty much. We don't shut up in real life. So you can expect exactly what you hear. And the last item of business for getting your partner on board. Usually it's the wife, but maybe sometimes it's a husband, except that they're going to say no. If they're going to say no, accept it. Let it simmer and you can bring it back up three months later, six months later. So you're saying not accept it. Don't take no for an answer. No, no, you have to accept. They might say no and just be OK with that, but try again at a later time. That's not taking no for an answer. No, because you've got to take no at least for three to six months and then try again. I think that for a lot of them down is what you're telling. I do think for a lot of people, they need to be introduced to the idea more than once. I'm going to tell you, it took us a long time to get to the point that we're at a long time. And we we did so. I mean, we should really do a whole origin story, but our origin story, it spanned years of sexy fun just between the two of us, where it just started where we're walking through Vegas and I'm wearing like a really sexy outfit and you'd be like, oh, there's people watching you. He's looking at you. He's looking at you. Totally not swing or related, just little things to help get us where we are. For as adventurous as we might have been in our previous life, for as much as we might have been an outlier. But to jump that chasm to where you allow strange people into your bedroom. That felt like a field too far, way too far. And it took us a long time to be able to let our guard down to get to that point. Which is why we go so slow, which is also interesting because sometimes I think people have a feeling when they see people in their vanilla world that they want to just tell them about this new cheat code to life that they've discovered because it's amazing. It's wonderful. It doesn't work that way. You cannot do that because in order to get to the front door of E.N.M. It's kind of like a stone pathway through the woods. That's not what I was going to say. Actually, you're not reading my mind. It's like a musician and it's an overnight success. Oh, my gosh, look, it's an overnight success. And then you hear they've been slaving over their music for 10, 12 years. They're like a 15 year overnight success. That's how it was with us. We were like an overnight getting into the lifestyle, but it took years. And so the people who are in our life, vanilla or lifestyle, Stuart Scott puts in front of us. Oh, our lifestyle friends. They're usually going to always be somebody who has traversed quite a chasm to get to our front door. They've already gone on the little rickety rope bridge. Yes. And they have crossed that chasm. And those are the people we like to hang out with. I don't want to try to indoctrinate someone. Come on the road bridge and cross that chasm. I can't help you there. All I can do is I can show you the way once you're on the other side. I can follow the Yellowbrook Road. This boat is going through the water and it's a party boat. And you can choose to get on or you can choose to stay on shore. I thought I'd be on the Yellowbrook Road. You can be on the road. Our analogies are going in completely different directions. Usually we operate with the same half of the brain, but I don't know what's going on tonight. I'm just feeling little munchkins. Follow the Yellowbrook Road. You're talking about some Oopa Loompas. Follow the Yellowbrook Road. Follow, follow, follow, follow. Are we on a boat or are we on the Yellowbrook Road? I'm on a boat. I'm on a flippy floppies. With some Oopa Loompas. There's not Oopa Loompas, they're munchkins. You're talking... I'm going to have some Oopa Loompas on my boat. Oh my God. With that, peace out. So if you liked what you heard, go ahead and either subscribe or... I didn't know how that works. Just come and listen. We might post once a week. We might post a couple times a month. I don't know. We might get bored and stop doing it. So you better come and listen while it's still going. Otherwise we'll lose interest. Tell us how much you like it. Yeah. Leave a comment. That'd be cool. We love it. Where can they leave a comment? I don't know. Maybe we'll also comment. We don't have a website yet. Okay.