KHC 178 - Cameron McAdoo

Every step I take, I move my truth. Every time they tell me stop, I use it. Every comment, hate that makes my feel. Gather up my energy and boom. I hear them talking, saying the way that I move is so reckless. That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with. Giving my blood so I am relentless. This is the Keep Hammering Collective. I'm with Cameron McAdoo. How are you doing? I'm doing great. How are you? Can you believe we're doing a podcast? I can't. I really can't. I was telling you this morning when we were going up the mountain, I looked on my Instagram. and I think it was like eight years ago or something I had replied to one of your stories because that's how long I've been following along with you and I would have been 19 at the time and yeah not in my wildest dreams where I've thought I'd get to come here and share this experience with you and the last couple days have been super cool yeah so yeah I can't thank you guys enough for welcoming me here and letting me enjoy some time together yeah no this is um This has been great. I got to see you in action up at Seattle Supercross, which that's my second. I think it's my second Supercross. I know I did Seattle last year and then did Washougal, the outdoor. But what a show and what a venue. I know you guys go every week to a different place like that, but it's such a special event for people in this area. People travel and it's like that's what they look forward to. And you guys just do. I mean, it's epic. what you guys do. Yeah, it's awesome. It's another thing that's beyond my wildest dreams that I'd ever be able to be one of the guys out there doing it. It is really cool that we get to have the platform we have and to have the fans that we have. Like you said, it's really special for Seattle. I feel it in every city we go to. We were in Glendale last weekend and they're just so passionate about it. And it's really cool to be around a lot of like-minded people who love dirt bikes like we do yeah it's is there a city that stands out gosh it's it's hard saying um anaheim one is is kind of is anaheim one you know it's pretty one because you do multiple stops there i think it's because it's been the first race for oh i got you so many years that it's just got that nostalgia to it yeah but um yeah uh texas texas is like when they say everything's bigger in texas we raced in houston this year already and um the the fans are just they're so good there that's that's one if i thought to stand out it'd be texas whether it be houston or um dallas it's is it bigger crowds there huge crowds um they're so passionate it's texas arizona was good too like yeah it's it's super hard you know but um i think if i were to have to pinpoint point one down Texas is usually pretty, pretty big. Yeah. Well, I can't, I mean, I love watching it now. Just being, I can't believe all that goes into putting on those shows. I mean, so much props to the guys moving the dirt and building the track. It's just like those guys, I think they had 30 hours because Seattle won the Superbowl. So they had their parade and then it was pouring also on top of it. And they had to put together that track, which those guys worked their asses I was talking to the Dirtworks guys, and they were like, man, we were watching the Super Bowl on the plane. We were praying for Seattle not to win because they knew that that was going to put them in such a crazy time crunch because of the parade. And they pulled it off. It was a great night of racing. Very challenging track, but it was a good night. Do you think that they had less time? Did it make the track harder, or is Seattle always hard? I know I heard it's always hard. Yeah, it's always a very challenging track because the dirt breaks down a lot. So it's always a really soft base. Obviously, in the spring in Seattle anyway, the dirt sits outside all year. So depending on how much rain there's been, you're going to have softer or harder dirt. Now, with it being put in later, it didn't get to sit very long. So the track got built literally Thursday morning was when it kind of got finished. And then it rained all Thursday or Friday. Yeah. So it was softer than a normal Seattle anyway. And, yeah, it broke down, and they were prepping it every single time on track. I've never seen in my career them prep the whoops in between qualifying one and qualifying two, and they had to, which that says a lot. And I was first heat of the 250s, so I was in the most brand-new track there was all night. And by the end of our heat, which is only six minutes plus one lap, it was already getting really beat down. So I was like, this is going to be an insane track. And, yeah, by the end of the 450s, when you see the very best guys in the world making the mistakes that some of the guys were, it shows you how challenging that track was. Yeah, what makes it tough is when the ruts get deep, is that the worst part of it? yeah so when the ruts get super deep um in a soft base like seattle was it's not so much just the ruts but in the rhythm lanes and the transitions we we call it like they get curbs in them so it's a rut but within the rut the actual face of the jump doesn't have the same angle as normal because it has like almost a hole in the bottom of it yeah which your bike will hit and it will take a ton the momentum out and it kicks your rear end up a lot of times so it's all about coming over and picking a rut and you'll you can see um the ones that have big curbs in them or holes there'll be black spots in the ruts because of the shadow uh so it's being specific there and knowing how it's gonna lunge your bike and you're landing in ruts taking off in ruts turning in them it's it was yeah there's a few venues seattle uh indianapolis that are just man or they always break down like that and it's makes for a lot more challenging track and some guys love it like some guys are like this is my track like you know they rub their hands together and some guys like a harder base and so it's all it's all um part of the sport which is pretty awesome because people are probably better at different things. Some people just want to race and they want a hard track and they just want, and then the technical guy is probably like that, I guess. As America turns 250 this year, good ranchers wanted to take a moment to honor the people that helped build this country. Not the ones in the history books, but the ones who wake up before the sun season after season without looking for any kind of recognition. These people are America's ranchers. Most of you know, I eat a lot of wild game, but let's be honest. You don't really get a marbled elk steak, and sometimes a good hard-earned steak is tough to beat. That's where Good Ranchers comes in. What I really like about Good Ranchers is what they stand for. They are 100% committed to America farms and ranches. Every cut of meat comes from right here in the United States. Their packaging and fulfillment happens here. Their customer support team is in-house, and with every order, they donate a portion of their profits to veterans organizations. 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So if you're serious about glassing and want the same edge I've had the past couple of seasons, head to sigsour.com, grab a pair of Zulu binos, and use code CAM for 10% off. six hour zulu binoculars see more miss less keep hammering i think cooper webb's a good guy i'm in the 450 class a good example of someone who loves those tracks that break down and um they get slower like so the racing was so much slower than what you would see in arizona where the the dirt stays pretty standardly hard the moves get slick and they don't really get super rutted but the speeds are so high and they stay high all night where when the tracks break down we start turning in the very bottoms of the corners because the ruts just keep getting deeper and deeper and we just get lower and lower and there's some guys like cooper he can he turns really well in the bottoms and does certain things well and and so those tracks i think serve him more and then you've got guys who like a super fast wide open track with big lanes and um but i think that's what's cool about our sport we go to 17 different venues and at the end of it the supercross champions the supercross champion because they were the best like it's undeniable that's uh pretty interesting and i mean they hold up the signs on the side what are the signs telling you like are they telling you track conditions at all or where to go or anything um no sometimes like in practice they'll say like um three three which means like on the one rhythm lane i'll talk to my mechanic before and say hey on that back rhythm lane if someone's doing this tell me you know so i know what lane but that would just be in practice uh during the race usually it's just our lap time um sometimes our position depends on what the rider likes i like i like to race race the clock so i like to race a lap time uh because that's what we do during the week usually you know about what position you're in and whether you're in first or 15th, it doesn't matter what position you're in. You want to be in the better position, right? So yeah. Um, yeah. Race the lap time. And then they'll tell us, you know, for me personally, I go halfway. I like to know halfway and then I like to know five laps down. Um, so once I see halfway, a lot of times, depending on where the mechanics area is, I might never see my pit board one time the whole race. So, um, but yeah it'll say you know or just different reminders if they see that we're doing something and they have headsets on and they're communicating with our whole team so if mitch is up in the stands and he says hey you know tell him this or tell him that whether it be you know focus you know work on your legs just different little things um cues yeah exactly so because we don't have any communications with anyone when we race right right yeah i was surprised i was just kind of noticing like i said i haven't been or i've been to a few but like i was kind of surprised that the lap times on the 250s were sometimes faster than the 450s is that just because the bike's more easier to move around nimble um it can like there's track you couldn't take advantage of the 450 power or what yeah so there is definitely um especially within supercross tighter tracks where there's places on the track where 250 can be beneficial because you can turn them tighter they're a little bit lighter um the way the power works but a lot of it has to do with the 450s always race in practice just after us so we're the they're we're the first ones on track they're second yeah so our track's a little bit less beat up and um the 250 class Also, you know, the top of it is fast, too, you know, so it's like right there. But, yeah, a lot of it has to do with track condition, mainly. Their track is pretty mangled by the time we get done with it. You know, they don't get near as much of a track prep either before their main event as we did before ours. So that usually has to do with why. But, yeah, it's close at the top. Yeah, I mean, I saw a couple. now i can't remember who it was but it seems like that bike i mean it starts bouncing like you're out of your i mean shit can go crazy and that one i can't remember who it was like bounce kind of landed back on the bike then hit the board oh yeah took out the camera guys um his name was it's a kid that i i ride with here and there he trained in california uh revan gordon yeah coming out of the sand yeah it was kind of similar to like what happened to me in my heat race crash because I clipped the top of that little double coming out, and I lost my hand in my foot and crashed. But, yeah, I don't know how he saved that. There's a video going around everywhere. It's, like, viral. It was wild. And then he ended up going off the side of the track, and the cameraman looked and jumped over his bike. I know. Nobody got hurt, really. No, huh? I don't know how. Yeah, it was crazy. It reminded me of one time I was, like, on a little 50 over here in Springfield, and I like slid off the back of it and then my hand did the throttle and I was going a million miles an hour through this ditch no control that's kind of what it reminded me of yeah I was super scared and I was on a little 50 cc yeah um we always like obviously anyone that rides motorcycles knows what whiskey throttle is and um Kawasaki sent my wife a little KLX 110 and And I'm always like, you have to wear a helmet and boots when you ride. And she's like, come on, I'm not wearing a helmet. I'm just riding in the grass patch across the street. And I'm like, babe, once you experience whiskey throttle for the first time, it doesn't matter what you're on, whether it's a 110 or a 450, it's real. As soon as your weight gets back and you can't let go, it just won't let you. It goes bad fast. You're wearing a helmet. It's not optional. Yeah, there's no scarier feeling than that, it feels like. I still remember it. But, yeah, I mean, so tell me about how did Seattle go, in your opinion, for you? Seattle was tough for me. I felt pretty good in practice and throughout the day. And then in the heat race, I made a pretty costly mistake towards the midpoint of the heat race and had a crash that I kind of banged up the whole left side of my body with. um and so my shoulder was really really sore uh between the heat race and the main i was able to keep it moving and keep from everything getting too swollen to where i could manage it and and um race the best i could right for the night but we were just talking about how gnarly the track was that was a probably the worst track to have something where i was like not feeling my best physically. So, uh, but I mean, all excuses aside, I was able to salvage everything I could and I ended up fifth. So, um, how I was feeling after the heat race, I was very unsure. So I was happy to be able to just manage what I could. Right. And be fifth. I mean, I'm never happy with fifth. That's for sure. But, um, after the last few weeks have been trending upwards and I've been getting closer to the front so it was frustrating yeah i was i was disappointed in myself and that was a mistake that was completely on me but i was happy to get out of there you know healthy and when i say healthy i just talked about being beat up but as as supercross racers as long as we're there's a difference in getting really beat up and injured and i'm not injured so that was you know a big thing and and now we have a few weeks off because the west coast is um or the east coast is starting up racing so i'll be back back dialed for the east west shootout here in four or five weeks yeah yeah oh yeah i mean what what how does your mindset change i mean obviously you want to be healthy confident but when you are when you are kind of nursing something you said you tweaked your something your left side how's your mindset change on the line because i and just like is Is your goal – I know there's a big race to the corner, right, to the first turn. Is that – did that change with your condition? Not at all. Or is that every – is that your goal too, to be the first one there? Yeah. Is that everybody? No matter what. Okay, got it. So that's one of the – a huge important thing is the start. And that was something that I knew I needed to do maybe even more while being not maybe perfectly physically 100%. Because if you can be up in the front and riding more by yourself rather than being in the middle of the pack where it's just like a hornet's nest in there, you can just work on your process each lap, each obstacle, each turn, and be more mindful of exactly how you're doing stuff. And I was lucky and I did get a good start. I started second. So I was able to just stay within myself. And that's something that was really important when I was feeling, you know, pretty vulnerable physically. Just to not go to that like where I had something yank on me or get a stinger, you know, when you're already pretty beat up. I landed on my shoulder really hard. That was what it was. and so yeah I just needed to stay really square on the bike and and I had to be mindful of that the whole race and that was something that it's tough because I I really wanted to be able to I felt like I had a good chance on that track because it was something that the way the track worked was you have to kind of execute each obstacle and whoever could do that the most times was going to do it well and it's one of those tracks where when you get past that halfway point a lot of people kind of start thinking of how bad it sucks and that's when you can really make some good improvement and make some good times so I was really frustrated with myself like I said that I kind of put myself in a position to not be able to ride to my full capabilities that night but again like i said it's um especially with how my last few years have gone i was really glad that i was just able to salvage everything that i could and um i'm going to be dialed on moving forward yeah yeah i mean there probably was time not long ago where fifth would have been amazing right so it's like it's you know you but our goal was to ascend to get better to improve so i exactly i totally get that mindset um yeah i mean and how do racers look at it it's like are you top 10 is feels good top five feels but obviously podium probably pays yeah i mean it it depends on really what level you're at too right like so for me uh i want to win like that's that's what i'm expected to do that's what i expect myself to do um and that's what i get paid to do so i want to win but being on the podium each weekend is super important just uh especially with within the championship the way it works like it's really bad when you have a really bad night like it's points wise you know so being on the podium each time and contending and fighting to win that's my expectation and like you had said not long ago which you know a few years ago they thought of getting top five in a supercross was crazy awesome you know at the beginning of my career right and then once you achieve that goal then it's like okay well what next and then you get a podium and then all of a sudden you get multiple podiums and you win a race and then so now you want to win a championship and the next thing is to win multiple championships so like that's that's why yeah us competitors are goal driven and uh you're never satisfied how did so you won Indy, right? Yep. And so how, like what, why did you win that race? What, what do you have to do to win? Ah, there's a lot of things that have to go right to win, you know? Indy was my third win, but that was my most recent one and it was a triple crown race. So I had a good first race. I won the first race and the triple crown format is Olympic scoring. so i won the first race and then i think i got second i think i either got second or third in the second main and i went into the third race with a three-way tie with uh deegan and i think i went into it with a three-way tie with deegan and um vial something like that so it was basically winner take all between the three of us so which whichever one of us you know beat the other one yeah and so that was those races are fun because the triple crown it's like if you get the whole shot in the first one and you're leading at you know 10 minutes it's like it's almost like i thought man i wish this could just go five minutes longer and this was the result of the night but to have to lock back in three times in a row uh just with an hour in between and you know be that consistency those those are really rewarding so yeah going into that third main it was kind of all or nothing deal and um i got a good start and and was able to was able to pull it off which was really cool and that was uh that was my third win my second win in texas was also a triple crown same kind of deal i was tied with jet lawrence going into the third round or the third uh race and it's just kind of fun being um enjoying that like that hour in between where you're like you know there's just so much pressure like you i've learned to enjoy the pressure and and really like because when you look back on it you're like man during the time it's like almost you know stressful and whatnot but that's what we live for like that that feeling in between and just to to rise to the occasion and it's it's really rewarding when you can rise to the occasion feeling that pressure for that long yeah i mean and you know the guys you mentioned you beat are you know you're a big name they're a big name but you're like one of the best in the world it's like when when everything goes and you're racing to your full potential you win you know i mean those races prove that yeah it's it's still like even hearing you say that it's like hard for me to think just because i come from such humble beginnings but yeah yeah like i i have raced the best dudes and um i don't have multiple championships like these guys i've talked to or talked on, but I've had my own struggles in which I've, you know, inflicted on myself and I've not reached what I felt like is my full potential yet. And that's what keeps me coming back. And that's why I'm, that's why I'm here to here to stay. And, and I'm really excited to continue working towards reaching my full potential. Yeah, no, it's, it's so exciting to watch and to just hear more about the mindset. I, you mentioned something like a triple crown with the hour in between. what do you do during that hour? I mean, how do you take advantage to make sure you're staying locked in? Are you visualizing the track, the race? What are you doing? Yeah, so for me, I watch the 450s just so we can see kind of what the track's doing. Yeah, the strategy. How it's breaking down. Fuel a little bit. Yeah. Get some quick carbs and sugar as much as you can. Yeah, In-N-Out burgers. Yeah. And then, yeah, I do a lot of visualizing because I think that visualizing, and anything is super important because it can you can visualize things go badly and good and it's it's reinforced real yeah whatever you're thinking about when you see like a little hint of it you're like here it goes yep so if that was negative then that's the way you're going exactly and then um i'll talk with my team uh with mitch with my trainer nick and about just things that we could have been better last time or uh gate position there's just different strategies you know um and a lot of it's watching watching the track watching how it breaks down watching what's working for the best guys in the 450s right so like okay he's hitting this line and he's doing this here this is better um and just keep analyzing how it changes because like we had talked about earlier the track is so ever-changing with racing uh with racing supercross so that's a huge part of it yeah i i bet like so is that hour is it is there a schedule do you have it in your head or do you just like kind of relax and go through this stuff it's kind of chaos honestly because it's we get back the mechanics take the bikes they're doing you know clutches different getting it ready where i eat some stuff um my wife maddie kind of has a a thing exactly what i need to eat and how much i need to have in she's like you need to drink this i'm like i got a stomach ache i don't want to drink that kind of deal you know but that's that and then we go over some film and and by the by then it's basically we got to get back down there for first call so there's not really much time at all to really sit down and relax and think which i think is good i like that because the more time you kind of unwind and yeah too much time to think yeah it's just kind of it's it's chaos for a few hours and then you're like you get back to the hotel at night you're What happened? 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Simple energy, no nonsense. find black rifle coffee at walmart target kroger your local black rifle coffee shop or online at black rifle coffee.com and use code keep hammering for 10 off your purchase keep hammering and fuel the work with america's coffee i was watching yeah i think it's the 450 but i know uh like going through i can now i can't remember what it was but i just remember watching Eli make the pass and then like he came up short on a couple there's that what was that one section where was it after the whoops yeah I think so yeah so after the whoops there was a 180 and then a triple onto a table yes that's what it was and he came up short on two of them exactly yeah and so that's what like what I was referring to when is who can hit the rhythm lanes the most amount of times and execute it because when the tracks that rutted like we'll struggle to make the jumps you know and that's very not normal for like you know we don't ever struggle to make jumps unless it's conditional uh so yeah like he said his pegs were dragging dragging off the face yeah that's how deep the ruts were um and that was a really tough jump all day all the way from practice i cased that triple onto the table twice in practice like really hard what does that mean encased came up short oh yeah yeah so um and then yeah exactly like in the 250 race um hayden and levi were going back and forth because one of them would make the make the jump you know that that lap and then the next lap the other one would make the mistake or it just kind of was a cat mouse thing because you just had to execute each lane each time and that's that's what makes those tracks so hard is uh are they in that hour in between are they looking at you know that i can't i don't know what it is but you know with the track and your segments and your time are they saying like this you're losing time here are they showing you where you need to be better yeah for sure yeah we because we have all the broken down segment times of where we were at in each segment and we'll be like hey you know he was fastest in that segment and then we'll have film from his It's his laps in that segment of whoever it might have been, or even if it's you, okay, that line is what he was taking. And it's usually line-based. There's different lines in the track. And some of them will be worth one, two, even up to three, four-tenths of a second, which is a lot. Two-tenths every lap on an 18-lap race is being a lot. So, yeah, it's all those little trying to split hairs to be the best. Yeah. Yeah, and it's like during the race, you can't really think ahead, right? So do you have to be so tunnel-visioned on where you're at at that time, not get distracted, not lose focus? And is that the hardest part of it? Do people lose their train of thought sometimes? For sure, and it's funny you say that because the hardest thing to do is not to think ahead or think towards the end of the race or think towards the end of the main result, right? And that's one of the most important things, too, is just to be present each lap. And that's tough. So it's a lap-by-lap, section-by-section thing to where if you can execute each one of those things, that leads you to the end result. And as a competitor, it's really hard to not get your mind into the end result before you're doing all these things to get there. so it is a ever everlasting battle with yourself to be like stay locked into right here stay locked into right now you know and uh especially in my experience like towards the end of a race when you're leading uh and you have a little bit of a gap to the next guy and it's like that edge of pushing but then when you pull back from pushing it's almost more dangerous because you're not at your what you're used to just doing as hard as you can you know so that's um something even mitch is always like we race to the finish line no matter what no matter where you're at how far ahead you are race to the finish line because that's that's you're in the best position when you're racing yeah and your mentality changes like it reminds me like you know you've seen plenty nfl games where they go into prevent prevent defense and all of a sudden they're just losing the game because momentum switches once momentum switches which i don't even know what that is but it's just like an energy like hey we believe but when you back off you're almost telling yourself i don't really believe in myself to keep pushing yeah exactly it's like um my trainer nick refers to it a lot like let's have an offensive mindset not a defensive mindset all day all night no matter what like always race with an offensive mindset i like that boot on the neck type yeah is what i always think about but yeah it's probably hard to do though it's like because you you work so hard you're getting towards the end of the race you're in first all the can if you just don't screw up you should and but it's not a time machine you can't get to the finish without racing the rest exactly yeah it's i mean even in running you know it's so much slower but like in the mountains you have to focus on every step totally when you lose that's when you fall get hurt and but it can it's such a tax on your nervous system to think that hard for that long absolutely and that's it's funny like when i talk to people who don't know a whole lot about our sport like when i talk about at the end of a race day when being worn out it's not so much physically like we we do more laps daily during the week training than a whole race day's laps uh we race probably harder than we train you know but a race day is so mentally taxing you get home and you're just like holy crap that was a lot because you're from the first laps on the track when you're qualifying it's a different pressure a different feeling a different mind mental engagement that you have because there's a different expectation than there is when you're at the test track and there's so much analytics going into it and so many decisions to be made in one day. It's cool. It's a lot. It's what I live for. It's a lot. I wonder, like, what makes somebody elite in what you do? I mean, what is the difference maker, do you think? uh mental strength yeah it really is yeah i think that once we've all gotten to the high level the professional levels of racing or i think any sport when i say that um the difference everyone's a high level athlete everyone's strong everyone's fit uh i really think it's mostly mental i really do i think that the best dudes are the best racers that i've been around um the guys who've won so many championships multiple championships uh they have a mental edge yeah it's uh and there's so much that goes into what is mental strength you know it's just like that's a whole other podcast but like when you're growing up coming up who did you look up to who were your heroes basically um when i was growing up ricky carmichael that was who i watched win everything race it was you know ricky james and chad reed were the three who were pretty much dominating everything uh and i was a huge ricky carmichael fan he he was just i went to millville in 2005 i think or six uh outdoor pro national and he was just the best dude and that was who i looked up to what because he won or was it his style or what would you love about him he won and um not it wasn't necessarily his style it was just my dad liked him and i think my dad liked him because uh he had such a good work ethic and that was talked about and known and my dad's you know just a blue collar dude who works hard so we just we were ricky carmichael fans as as a family you know yeah just get your lunch pail ready we're going to work yeah that's kind of yeah because he i talked to him this weekend he was just saying that and maybe you said this too that maybe talent wise there could be people with more talent but he would outwork them and just train harder want it more yeah and that was what he was known for and that was that's something that um yeah the way i was kind of brought up and my family we respect that and that's yeah we were rick carmichael fans yeah yeah i love that too talk about your left shoulder your left side here's my oh i got my arrow hold on if i go like this i think it might be yeah i separated my ac joint 2022 can you see it james yeah oh so and then like kind of floats so it's actually separated down here in my sternum too and then on my ac joint so yeah i broke my collarbone when i was like 16 and it plated the whole thing so and they told me then when they did that plate that it should never break again the collarbone because it's got a plate the next thing that will happen well your ac joint will go well sure enough my ac joint went what does ac stand for i don't even know what that is um oh it's okay no because this one's your sc joint which is sick no i don't know something some medical term whatever yeah the adam c and sorella joint yeah there you go um so yeah i got both of them separated on that one yeah so my clavicle killer that's exactly what you were going to say wasn't it exactly yep and sure enough that was the shoulder i landed on this weekend and oh bummed out a bit so god dang well yeah you guys are freaking tough for sure um but also yeah i mean you mentioned your dad we got to run the mountain with him today he is a freaking beast uh i know you said he used to weigh 250 now he's just kind of shredded kind of got big quads so So, yeah, was your dad tough on you growing up? Gosh, both of my parents were tough on me growing up. And in a sense, nothing was given to us, my sister and I. We had to earn everything growing up. Perfect. When I think back of my childhood, I don't think, oh, man, my parents were so mean. But I was raised in a way where we worked for every dollar we got. We had to earn all the stuff we got, and we got to do fun stuff. I mean, I got to ride dirt bikes, and my parents bought us dirt bikes and stuff. But, yeah, they showed us the value of a dollar, made us earn the value of a dollar, showed us how to respect people, and I think also by leading by example was a big thing that my parents did. My dad worked really hard growing up. My mom worked really hard, and they didn't take any crap from us. So that's, I mean, I respect and look up to my parents both more than anyone, you know, in the world still as an adult. So, yeah, he's always been a bad dude. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I know when my boys, like, probably during high school, they hated me, right? Now we get along great. was that like was it hard when you were a kid and now it's good now you can appreciate it more or what there was times for sure where i was like gosh you know my dad traveled for work a lot so he was he was nicer than my mom in a sense because he wasn't at home as much yeah but um you didn't you didn't cross him that's for sure and another thing i think also was there was never my parents were always on the same page and so it was never like ask dad for this and if he says no go to mom or it never worked like that you could never play my parents against each other and that was something i felt like that i look back and think that they did really good on yeah that was a huge thing and even um my parents got divorced when i was i think nine or ten and they went through some rough years then but all during those times no matter what they stayed on the same page with us. It would never be a, if I'm mad at mom, I'm going to go to dad's house. That didn't work that way. It was, it was, that's rare. Yeah. And it was, it's something I'm forever grateful for because, um, yeah, I'm just, I'm grateful for the way I was raised and yeah, it was tough. Sometimes, sometimes I hated working on rural properties. I didn't like mowing lawns. I didn't like, you know, trashing out rentals or, um, whatever it might be at the time. But looking back on it now, it's one of the most valuable things I've ever, ever given. Well, that, I mean, that, you know, a lot of people have divorced parents. I know I do. And, uh, it is really hard to get divorced parents to stay on the same page because everybody, it's always like, there's always bitterness because the marriage didn't go well. So for whatever reason, and then kind of kids are kind of used as a weapon a little bit against each other. And it's like, it's, it's hard anyway. Like that's a hard situation anyway. Then on top of, then you get this other stuff. That's so, I mean, props to your mom and dad for, you know, doing, doing the best they could in that situation. Yeah, for sure. And that's, I mean, I have friends who've got divorced parents and similar deal. Like you're saying, um, the, the kids are used as a weapon. That's a great example. And yeah, I mean, there was multiple years right after my parents got divorced where you know i was around some knock down drag out whether you know phone conversations or whatever they they weren't friends that's for sure yeah but they both agreed on one thing and they had one thing in common they were going to raise their kids the right way right and um looking back on it now i mean my dad comes out to california where i live and my mom lives in california now too that they're friends now you know they they bicker they talk crap to each other and um yeah i'm i am very forget like forever grateful for them staying on that same page because i was you know pretty young i wasn't in my a lot of forming years you know nine to 15 um yeah it was it's i'm grateful for the way i was raised when you're deep in the back country and everything depends on your gear your knife can't be the weak link that's why i teamed up with montana knife company to build the keep hammering pack out what matters to me in all things is performance the pack out is built to do one thing really well, break down animals efficiently. 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Plus, it has zero sugar, artificial colors, or other dodgy ingredients to derail your low-carb lifestyle. That's why Element is my go-to electrolyte drink entrusted by many of the world's leading health experts and athletes, including Team USA Weightlifting, coaches, health practitioners, and teams across professional, collegiate, and high school sports leagues. You're also guaranteed to find an element flavor you love. Try fan-favorite citrus salt or raspberry salt, get spicy with mango chili, or mix chocolate salt into your morning coffee for a mean mocha. Element is offering listeners of the podcast a free element sample pack with any purchase at www.drinklmnt.com backslash cam. Also try new element sparkling, a bold 16-ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water. And you have a sister? Is that just you guys? Yep, me and my older sister. My sister is four and a half years older than me. And she's a badass too. Yeah, and I kind of just said that my two parents are the people I look up to the most in my life, but I always refer to her as she's kind of like my goal for being as good as a person, whether it be strength, mindset, the way you treat other people. um she's she's insane she's awesome um i look up to her for so many things in life and we actually live together but yeah she's in the navy she yeah i just strive to be like her yeah well i i don't your attitude for being such a young man is like i don't know i feel like i need to learn from you i don't know i definitely don't have it all figured out That's not even close. Well, just saying that actually is a good sign. No, I just do my best, right? Like we all are. I understand. I did hear, I listened to Gypsy Tales. Yeah, Jace, he's such a good guy. Man, that's a long podcast. That was like three hours, wasn't it? It was. It was a long one. But it was so good. I think I'm going to do his podcast at some point. I think he's, you know, we were coordinating something recently. But I learned a lot about you. And during that and, you know, talking about I heard about Loretta's before, like when AC was on here, because he was like a Loretta legend, wasn't he, as a kid? Yeah, I think he has the most or close to the most ever Loretta Lens championships growing up. He was I mean, I remember going to Loretta's and going by the team green pit and like looking at his bike. and it was just like he seemed like a movie character to me. And this is when he was – he's only a couple years older than me, so he might have been 13 on a Super Mini. And I was just like, holy crap. But he's already celebrated. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what stood out to me was the time you were like looking forward to playing in the creek and not having to race. And your dad came over and he had a number for you or whatever. You were like, hey, you did a race. And you were just like, ah, that's – kind of like that sucks. No, yeah. So my sister qualified. No matter what, every year my sister would be able to qualify. She was fast enough to qualify for Loretta's. So that year I was an alternate. So basically 42 people can qualify for Loretta's. So to say what Loretta's is, it's just for people who don't know. Yeah. So Loretta Lens is the biggest amateur national motocross race in the world. And there's a qualifying process that you have to go through to do it. So you go through an area qualifier, and there's multiple area qualifiers in each region. And then you go from your area qualifier top. In my region, it was top eight go from the area qualifier to the regional. So that goes, I think, maybe 60 people from all the areas go to a regional, and then only seven out of that regional make it to Loretta Lens. Okay. So it all boils down to the 42 best people in each class for that year. So for us, it was a huge goal to qualify for Loretta's. That was a huge goal. You made nationals, basically. Yeah, exactly. It's a big deal. And my sister would always be able to qualify. And there was a few years where I was an alternate. So out of the 42 that make it, the next in line that didn't quite make it, if someone doesn't sign up out of those 42, they'll take an alternate. Well, we went to Loretta's because my sister had qualified. And it was kind of like our family vacation each summer. if we could go to Loretta's. So we were there. We had my bikes and whatnot, and I wasn't in yet. And they went up to sign up, and I was young. I was like, man, this is the first time going to Loretta's and not racing. And that was where I was thinking, right? And my parents came back from sign up, and my dad had a bib, which we wear a bib at Loretta's. It's just kind of a thing there at that specific race. And he threw it to me, and they were all excited. And I was like, well, I was like, yeah, I was excited. But inside I was like, dang it, man, because I felt like I had to, you know, I was under the pressure that week. And then what's funny looking back is there was no pressure. Like my parents didn't put pressure on us as long as we tried our hardest. Yeah. I mean, I think I probably got 35th that week or 32nd out of 42, you know. But you still, I was a little competitor, man. I wanted to do good. So then there it was. I was racing that week. So that's kind of a funny story looking back on it. Yeah. The reason I say that, like one time when Truett was a freshman, he made state and cross country. And there's like a couple hundred runners here, you know, entire state. He ended up getting last. Very last. He was the very last runner at state. So he was the littlest guy of freshman. I always like trying to focus on, hey, it's cool that you made it to state. You know what I mean? It's just kind of like making it to Loretta's is a big deal. But instead of the fact that you got dead last, let's just focus on you made it to state as a freshman. But it's really hard to convince. Well, I had a hard time convincing him that was a win. Everybody else is coming, and here comes the last kid. But it shows because it shows what kind of person he is. We were just talking about it today where his goal is to go make Olympic trials. So that mindset is what's gotten him to where he's at in life. No, he didn't have it then, but he was developing. That was part of giving him that mindset, right? It had to be. Well, all our experiences lead us down a path, and hopefully you're on the right path. I've talked about this with Jelly Rolls. like a lot of people kind of are off, they're off the path. They're never going to get anywhere because you're going the wrong way. But once you're on the path, which, you know, maybe he was at that time, the mindset wasn't there, but once you guys get on it, then it's just a matter of time. Then it's just like, okay, I'm on the path. I know what it takes. Now we just got to put in the work. Keep trying. Keep hammering, keep showing up. And yeah, so it's, but that, that story is funny. because it's not like, I think what people see you guys at this level, and they think, oh, they've just always been elite. They've always, this has been their whole life. And you're just like any other kid. You've got a big sister who is older, a little tougher, a little better. You're a little kid that wants to play in the creek. And now here you are, the super cross, like superstar. Yeah, my path in particular is pretty unique to this level of racing. Like we said, we were talking to Adam earlier, or referring to Adam earlier about when he was 12, he was a superstar. That's usually the top of the class, the top of the guys. They all were very good at a young age, and they were expected to be there. and all growing up when I raced dirt bikes, it was never with the goal of turning professional. We never had even thoughts of turning professional. Um, it was an awesome hobby for us. I was good locally, you know, and then I could, I was good enough to make it to some of the nationals, you know but it was um I went all the way into high school and and finally when I was 16 uh And I did a lot of local contingency racing which that got me invited to because I would race for Suzuki contingency And I made enough contingency where the top contingency earners would get invited to a camp at Ricky Carmichael's house in Florida. Tell me about what is a contingency. So the contingency would be like local racing. They offered a program where they would pay you contingency based on your results at those local races. So you would get money from that company to go. You could spend it at a dealership that uses those motorcycles. Right. OK, I see. Yeah. All the credit. Yeah. Kawasaki has Kawasaki contingency where you can go to the dealership. You could buy Kawasaki parts with it. So I would just go earn as much money. What would you like? How much could you win? I think to win, I could get $400 contingency. Okay, I got you. Win one of the races. So I would go to local races all around, and I was just making contingency. I was racing with my buddies for fun. And then I got a letter in the mail that I was one of the top earners, and I got to go to Camp Carmichael. Oh, nice. And my mom called my dad and was like, you've got to take him down there to Florida. He's like, I'm not taking five days off to drive down to Florida for a one-day camp. yeah if we do anything we're going to go down to florida and then we'll race mini o's afterwards which is a big national but we had never gone all the way to florida so uh we my dad and i loaded up in my uh van that i had at the time because i was i was 16 and we drove down to florida went to carmichael camp and then we went to mini o's and i had a couple good results like i got a couple good starts and was battling with some of the guys who i probably shouldn't have been battling with Right. And that kind of lit a fire with my I think my dad for sure. And he talked to my mom was like, hey, I think we should give him one year at a training facility is where you kind of go and you can train year round. And homeschooling his last year of high school if he really wants to just to see. Yeah. And given that one year opportunity. And that winter I was I lived in Iowa, you know, went to high school. I was down in my basement and I had a road bike on rollers and I was road biking in the basement just training. I felt like I was training for something. I didn't know what. And my mom was like, hey, pick where you want to go. Your dad and I are going to send you somewhere. Pick which facility you want to go to. We're going to send you somewhere for a year. And I was like, what? Growing up, I always wanted to be homeschooled and race. That was what you thought you were That was like the dream for a dirt bike kid. Yeah, but it was so far-fetched. Yeah. So far-fetched for me. Did you tell kids at school what you were going to do? Yeah, that's what I wanted to do. And I was always the kid at school that raced dirt bikes, right? Yeah. I didn't play football. They're like, yeah, he's the kid that raced dirt bikes. So I was like, what? Like, that's crazy. And then, yeah, one thing led to the next. Were you pumped? Oh, I couldn't be more ecstatic. Really? Yeah. And it was definitely not like a, oh, we're sending you there. It was like a, we're going to let you do that. yeah like what you've always wanted to do okay and yeah so we're gonna we're gonna do it for a year cost like what is the investment in that i mean you should ask your dad yeah yeah you'd have a better answer it was um i don't know the exact i think it's like 30 000 for the year or something for that but then you got bike parts we didn't get bikes for free we didn't get anything for free so you go through a lot of bike parts a lot of oil like just all the maintenance it was a huge huge financial investment for my parents you know like i said i come from a middle-class family my dad worked hard and he made great money but uh we weren't rich by any means you know so that was why it was kind of like a we'll give you one year and then if you can you know if it's trending like you can do something with this then you can keep going right so uh i i moved to south Carolina that year to a training facility called Club MX and worked my butt off started doing some more racing getting better and better and better who is who ran that um a guy named Brandon Haas yep and they actually have a race team right now yep and so yeah I stayed there for up until I was 18 was once I was there for over a year it was trending in a good direction I was racing races and making enough money to help my parents support me to keep going you know and then kind of the deal was that my parents were going to support me until i was 18 the year i went to loretta's and if i couldn't make it on my own by then and make enough money racing to keep living um it was go back home yeah dad said he always had a job for me so um luckily that was that wasn't That was working your ass off every day. That's right. In a different way. Yeah, different type of work. Yeah. Not for glory. Yeah, correct. And so, yeah, that year I signed my first contract, and it was an amateur contract with a team called Mortal Concepts. And they took me throughout the rest of that year. That would have been 2016. and uh it was michael lessee rode for the team and he was training at club and his dad was the team manager tony lessee and he uh called his dad was like man there's this kid here who he's got you know he's they're doing it all on their own he's pretty good and he tries really hard and the team owner mike genova at the time was like oh we'll uh we'll leave the semi at Daytona, which was a supercross race, which they do an amateur race the next day. And we'll give him some tires and give him a mechanic and, and I could pit out of their semi, um, at Daytona. That's a big deal. I was like, that's a huge deal. Huge deal. So we drove my van over there, did that. He came, I met, uh, Mike Genova and he, he was like, man, I like this. This is cool. I'm, he never really had anything to do with amateur racing. So he helped me out through the rest of that year and then um the end of that year i won the amateur race at monster energy cup and they offered me a lights supercross deal for 2017 what's what's a light super 250 oh 50 class yeah oh gotcha yeah so i got a supercross only deal for because they were a supercross only team and that was my my rookie year was 2017 i signed with moto concepts and that was my first year professional and that was yeah i was able to make enough to keep going yeah that was where it all started and went from there to um geico honda and then um i had two years at geico honda and they i actually i didn't perform well enough and lost my ride there and i went off season i didn't have anything um did some overseas off season races just keeping going so how was how was that stretch because you had some momentum yeah and then you had to hit a rough spot it sounds like yep and what what was it how come you weren't performing do you think was it a bike thing was it you i was i was so early on in my career i think experience experience um i didn't believe in myself like i was i was still kind of starstruck the fact that i was on a factory team just happy to be there how could i even be here how is this even real you know um and then they actually these two brothers from australia um that they found that they were going to bring over to the united states it was these two kids that raced in the mxgps and they were the lawrence brothers and they came over yeah yeah and then i i lost i i i did i lost my ride you know so i didn't have a ride throughout that whole off season. And then I was actually flying home for Christmas. Uh, and I was at the airport and the owner of Geico called me, Jeff, my shack and said, you know, last conversation we had, do you remember how I said things change quick? And he's like, we had a writer break their collarbone and we need a filling guy for the entire West coast season. So back to Geico I was, I had my, my shot again, you know? And so, yeah, I raced that whole supercross season got fifth in the points got my first podium in the east west shootout in vegas and that kept my trajectory kept me going you know so then i got another fill-in ride that outdoor season uh with troy the designs ktm i missed the first three races and then got a fill-in there and raced that outdoor season for them and that was when i earned um my ride at pro circuit got my yeah at the end of that year and i had that whole year when i didn't really have anything and i was looking for a fill-in ride i would go down to pro circuit uh week to week and i'd go up to the front desk and i'd say hey can i speak with mitch and i'd go back there and he'd be like what's up i'd be like any anything you got like you know if you've if you have any opportunities like i'll do anything for it i would love to you know get an opportunity with you with a fill-in because he had a few riders injured at the time and he never had anything available but i just kept going down there well did you did you do that on your own yep yeah i would drive down there and sometimes i'd go to the front desk and the lady would be like oh let me go back oh he's in a meeting you know because he knew who was there and he's like i don't have anything for the kid you know but um i just wanted to show him that i wanted to ride for his team and then towards the end of that outdoor season with three races to go i got a call from mitch and he said hey have you signed a deal for 2020 yet and i hadn't and he said come down to my office tomorrow morning and i had a one-year deal opportunity yeah was that that's that's big huh it was huge it was i mean it was my dream like it was you know it was it was so crazy you know that mitch was calling me and i was like this is crazy So I had a one-year opportunity, and here we are, year seven with Pro Circuit. I'm living my dream. That's quite a run. How did that feel in signing that contract that first time? I kind of have chills right now still thinking about it because sometimes as we go through life, we just keep going, right? Yeah, I kind of forget. Now I want to win championships. But it was crazy. I'll never forget going out into my truck and calling my mom and dad and being like, I got a deal. Like, I just signed with Pro Circuit, you know? What did they say? Did they say they always knew you could or what did they say? They always knew I could. They've always believed in me, right? And they've believed in me more than I believed in me all the time. I think that's just what parents do. But they were so happy for me. Like I've, you know, once I turned pro, my parents weren't negotiating my contracts. I was raised by the way of once you turn 18, you're a grown man. You know, you work on your own. And yeah, it was super cool. It was just super cool for all of us because, you know, I had already had factory opportunities and just kind of was right on that edge, on that edge. and then to be able to get a full, you know, where I wanted to be. Like, this was, it was, it's the dream team to ride for. And, and yeah, it was so cool. Yeah. So cool. But then you got to perform to keep that, right? So then I was like, man, it's time. Like, let's go. And, and ever since then, Mitch has really had my back in these last seven years, which has been cool. and we've had a really great partnership, and we've had a lot of struggles together, you know, but we've also had some good times, and I think our best times are ahead of us still, which is cool. Well, I mean, you're easy to stick with. It's hard not to believe in you, for sure. I mean, just such a good person and just your attitude. So, yeah, I mean, I understand why it's worked out so well. As part of your journey, I was curious. So you went, what did you learn at Ricky Carmichael's camp? Because that seemed like you said he was a hero, and this was before you went to wherever. So this was like you quit school basically and trained full time. So what happened at that camp? The camp was a one-day camp, and the biggest thing that I felt like I learned was that day starts. He helped me on starts, and that helped me that following week. Because when I say it was a camp, it was more, you know, there was 15 of us there, and it was a very short. It was just cool to be at Ricky Carmichael. It was more of an experience. I would call it more of a Ricky Carmichael VIP experience. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, so it wasn't like a super one-on-one training, but I remember doing starts at the end of the day. I'll never forget it. I have pictures doing starts together. and then for some reason I felt like that's why I got good starts at Minio's that year. So that's like one core memory of that. Yeah, yeah. And just being at Ricky Carmichael's camp. Yeah, it was crazy. I couldn't even believe it. Yeah, that's pretty sick. So what is it about starts? What makes a good start? Why are people good at starts? Oh, gosh. If I had the exact answer for that, I think I'd pull out of the whole shot. um there's so much to it now with we're starting on metal grades now so um body position uh rpm rev point of the bike clutch release getting getting the bike not to wheelie but to just go forward to get momentum because if it wheelies then you have to pull the clutch in again and we call that a double clutch and then you lose all your momentum and the guys around you go by you so So to get your clutch release just right and not to completely let go of your clutch to where it wheelies, but not drag it too much to where you're not going fast enough, keeping your body position forward. And then once you get past the gate in the dirt, different dirt conditions have different tractions. So getting the right traction to get your bike to drive forward. All those things within the first 20 feet, catching your shift point properly, getting your whole shot device, which is... How many times do you shift in that? Depending on the length of the start straight, usually two times. Okay. On a longer start straight, two times. We'll shift from, we start in second gear and we shift to fourth gear. Okay. And then we shift back down to second gear in the first turn. Oh. Yeah. So all those things coming together just right makes a good start. And that's in seconds. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, and I, I, I don't know, maybe you do it too, but I remember they showed Degan's start, but it seems like he was forward and then slid back. Yep. Is that the technique? Yeah. So you keep your weight forward until it's almost like a boat planing out. Once you get out of the gate and you get enough momentum to where your bike's not wanting to wheel you anymore, then you get back to get as much traction as you can on the rear tire to move forward. I see. So it goes from trying to hold the front down to leaning off the back to try to get as much traction as you can and get all the power to the ground to go forward. How do you work on reaction time? Like, do you know how, you know, they got the red light? Like, yeah, is that? Yeah, that help. Yeah, for sure. I practice different stuff like that, different stuff with tennis balls and stuff with some of our gym strength training and whatnot with throwing balls and catching stuff. But a lot of it is just doing the reps at the track. knowing where to look at the gate, what works for you. Some guys like to look out in front of the gate and then use their peripherals to see the gate drop. I look right at the gate personally. Just watch the gate. Kind of like in football, you watch the ball. Yep, exactly. Don't move before the ball moves. You're good to go. And not looking at the gate for too long. So when the 30-second card goes sideways, that means there's five to seven seconds until the gate drops. But if you look directly at the gate, from my personal experience, I look directly at the gate right then. If I'm hyper-focused on the gate for seven seconds, my reaction time goes down. So I kind of like, wait, wait. I have a certain routine, and then I lock into the gate. And it's usually right within about three seconds until the gate is going to drop. Okay. Yeah. And so many of us do it so different, right? So that's what's kind of cool about we're all unique in our own way. Where do you like to start? It depends on the way the first turn is and the way the angle goes into the first turn. I like to start next to what we call the doghouse, which is in the middle of the 22 gates. There's a big box that's probably two feet wide, and that's where the guy stands that actually drops the gate. And the reason I like to start next to there is because you have that two foot of space to the next guy over. So you have space when you get out to get your shift and you won't get closed off. sometimes the way the first turn is doesn't serve the box because you need to be a little bit further inside to have better track position coming into the first turn so it all depends on if the first turns a left a right a double apex which is kind of a 90 and then it goes straight a little bit longer than another 90 um so it's it's very track dependent do they make it to where no matter where you are on the gate it's the same distance or is the shortest line that closest to the that corner yeah it's pretty much the same distance always but the gate uh the starting gate is call it this wide and then it funnels into the first turn so if you look at the gate um we always look at whatever the the closest inside tough block is that comes to the like so if you look at the gate you want to be able to have a straight line down that's not going into the tough blocks yeah so if you're on the far inside gate if you look directly down the start straight you're going to go into tough blocks right you've got to come this way oh so that's not a little yeah that's not the best spot to go because the guys to the call it right of you if you're left hand turn are going to close you off more direct yeah so you want to get the most direct line kind of to right outside of the furthest funneled in tough block yeah how do you make sure your reaction like do you do anything like we talked about the training but like that day to be dialed and you lock the gate that watch the gate not too long but is there anything like caffeine or diet or how do you make sure you're locked in to be able to react to your best i mean i'm really strategic and specific with my diet day to day in general just being an athlete um i think i take it really serious and i think it's a big part of what most of us are we're all pretty specific with it um the day of i think before the race the biggest thing is being warmed up i'm a big believer in having going through all my heart rate zones before i go out on the track like before i go down to the start line because i think that that has you the most alert so a proper warm-up staying warmed up when you're down in the tunnel because I think with your body being warmed up, your brain's warmed up. So doing some fast-twitch stuff and just being really ready. That's one of the most important things with reaction time, I think, is being warmed up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, in the zone. Exactly. How do you get in the zone? That's a million-dollar question. Right? That's what we're all searching for, the exact. Yeah, I got a couple. Speaking of questions, I got a couple here. I'm going to get with you on. So this pain and suffering, when you're 20 minutes deep in a moto and your forearms are blown, what separates the guys who fade from the guys who charge it? And I don't know if it's 20 minutes. Are they all one? There's some shorter ones. There's like 10 sometimes. Yeah, so Supercross is for the 250s, it's 15 minutes plus one lap. 450s is 20 minutes plus one lap. And then Motocross is 30 minutes plus two laps for both classes. We'll just go in the middle. I'll just say 20 minutes. Forearms are blown. What separates the guys who's faded from the guys who change? I think the biggest thing that separates those two are the guys who are, if you're thinking about how tough it is or if you're thinking about how tough you are. Those are two different things. Yeah. So I think. So either you're being inflicted on or you're doing the damage. Yeah. And there's different times. like there's different races where it's not going your way right and it can be almost negative for you but um i just had a race uh just last weekend in phoenix where towards the end um i looked up and i could i could tell that i had more in me than who was in front of me and so to be able to just take that suffering and be like i know he's suffering worse than i am like we're so i'm gonna dig deeper yeah what's the suffering like what what does it feel like um my trainer and i joke about it because we talk about like f1 simulators like how could you make a dirt bike simulator and he's like man i think a lap pull down machine while you're doing a squat while you're doing a box jump while you're doing a push-up while you're doing and like basically put every gym machine together every gym machine together and then sprint up a hill on a treadmill that's that's like what it feels like so you're just gas like full body gas yeah like if you're sprinting up today like what that'd feel like that's what it's like yeah and i i guess maybe while doing holding something super heavy and and then also being so locked in and hitting whoops you know and not and being specific with it's not just um just the physical aspect it's being so precise while doing that that does attract like did it what's hard is it harder on the form the arm pump like on a technical track like seattle was it the arms more or is um still just all hard on a technical track i think it's more technique yeah on a technical track uh and it's also physical it's depends if you if you get arm pump it's that's basically all you got is arm pump that's that's Once you get arm pump, that's a really unique thing, and it's so hard to ride with it. It's not a feeling of lactic acid burning feeling. It's like weakness in your hands where you can't really hold on. But I would say legs is the biggest thing. If I were to say anything, when you're really at your max capacity and threshold, it's a lot of legs. Yeah. just just yeah the whole time engaged the whole time yeah but it's it's really just a it's a total body thing it's it's so unique well you got to try it if you're watching you got to try it yeah it looks amazing i i'm just curious what it feels like because it's like to be in that moment that you know obviously it's very intense um so yeah i'm hoping these questions kind of i mean that that helps a lot right there you explaining that um have have you ever wanted to quit mid-race we talked about guys who they you know they know you can tell they're like and i don't know if i'm i don't even i know there's lappers out there so it's like i'm not it's not trying to be offensive but for the guys in the front you know there's guys who probably are just happy to be there right so but do you ever get so have do guys get so tired they want to quit and why do they or don't they i think some do i've never ever wanted to quit no i would That's something that just, no, I've never wanted to quit. No, I won't quit. I'm not a quitter. I've never, that doesn't ever really, that's not something that really processes to me. Even if I've had a big crash, like my first thing is to get back to the bike as fast as I can. That's just, I think, kind of going back to the way I was raised maybe. But it's definitely not in my DNA to think of, man, I want to quit right now. I want out somehow. Yeah, I know. Because I've talked to even fighters about this where they're getting their ass kicked so bad. Like maybe do they ever feel like the other fighter kind of lets them get that arm under the neck? You know, because they're going to get their way out. It's not super obvious. You can act like you're kind of fighting it. So I didn't. I know like when you're in extreme situations. I've seen people even on the hill say, I'll never quit. And then they quit. Yeah, exactly. So it's like I know people, you know, I believe you when you say that for sure. But I just know like when people get so fatigued, like everything's out the window. Yeah. And I think it's at times in my career, it's been something that maybe held me back. It's been a reason why I've maybe had a few injuries or crashes because I feel like if I don't, sometimes I've given too much because I'm just too determined to get that guy or not let the guy get me. And I feel like I'm being a quitter if that happens or if I can't, you know, doing more than I'm capable of at the moment at times. So that's something that I walk that fine line of what I am capable of. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I get that. Yeah, and I mean, because I can see like if you're behind a guy and you feel like you're losing contact a little bit, what to stop you from just hammering it and just getting up there and then maybe wrecking, right? Exactly. that's that's um something i'm working on huge you know that's something that's been big for me in my career is i've kind of always been so so determined to give it my all every time and sometimes what i think my all is is more than my all has been um and that's something i'm working really hard on and that was similar to like last weekend where um i was got a little excited in the heat race and had the crash that I had happen and um getting fifth you know I rode in fifth and fourth was right in front of me the whole time And I was trying to get him you know but in the past I would It's funny, my. The Cowboy guys say, like, sometimes I would see red, like we don't want you to see red. Right. Intentionally. And not seeing red is hard for me because when I say see red, just do whatever I can to get him and get that guy. and just I got to win, you know, and just staying within what I'm able to do at the moment that time and finding that fine line, but the very top of it. That's what I want to have the top of it. I want everything out of myself that I can get that night to be able to leave and say that I gave it my own. What did you say like in the heat race? You said you got what you said. I can't remember what the word you said, but why did you wreck you? Were you too aggressive or what were you trying to get too fast of a time or what do you think? I think I got too excited when I. Too excited. Yeah. Yeah. I had a couple bad laps where I missed the rhythm lane and then I got passed by a couple guys. And I wanted to make up too much ground at once maybe. I'm just thinking that those are reasons, right, why I made this mistake. These have to be. And I made just the slightest little mistake. I caught the top of a jump out of the sand section, and I was catching that every time. That time I clipped it a little bit more than I did, and I was a little bit sideways, and I lost my hand off the bike. My hand and my leg kind of slipped off, and I had a crash. It wasn't anything, any crazy crash, but just that one little slip up where I was like, I always try to do my very best to take full responsibility for each thing that happens. You know, it wasn't like I'm not I'm not going to say, oh, well, it was just the way the track was. It was slippery there and it was the track's fault. That's you know, that's no way to be. So, yeah, I felt like I was maybe just a little too aggressive at the time for what was available. Yeah. You know, I like that. I like the full ownership part. I was talking to this bow hunter the other day and he was saying like one time, you know, he had a something like he shot at a bull. He didn't think the broadhead performed. And I'm always like, yeah, I get that. But you put the broadhead on your arrow. So you made the decision to use that one. You accept whether it worked or didn't. That was your choice to use that, right? So it's like you can always find a reason to blame something. Or you can say, that was on me. That's on me. I got to get better. And it sounds like your attitude is that, you know, Jocko Willick kind of extreme ownership. up like no this i'm in control of this all these other factors everybody else is dealing with too we gotta do our best um with the patience part it it you know again i'm talking a lot about this last race just because that was the one i was at but i know eli was behind and we talked about when he passed but it seemed like he was pretty patient in that race and he he wasn't like me and i don't know what his mindset is but you said like sometimes you want to make it all the way up It seemed like he was like, he knows his, it feels like his conditioning is elite. I think, I can't remember who told me, maybe he told me, but his, oh no, it was Neil, I think told me this, but his lap time doesn't change. Like it's within a second, like the whole time. Yeah. So I think he just knows he's going to, I don't need to pass him right now. For sure. And he knew, like we talked about the track, like he knew that if he just stayed doing the same thing every lap and was able to be consistent, that a mistake was most likely from anyone going to probably present itself because of how technical the track was. And, you know, Cooper was feeling the same way because he's like, he knows that he can be that consistent. and so does Ken and so does Hunter and so does everyone. So everyone has that same confidence. That's what makes the top of the class so awesome. Because there was probably eight guys who went to that starting gate on the 450 class and probably five or seven in the 250 class too that go to the line knowing that they're going to be that guy who's not going to make the mistakes. And with that mindset, you get the show you got Saturday night. Hell of a race. A war, you know. Yeah. It's really cool. It seemed like when he finally did make that pass, then it was like, God, then he was up by like seven seconds. You know, which in that, this weekend, that seemed like a lot. You know, I don't know. Oh, yeah. But that seemed like a lot. And, yeah, he's just like in a groove. That must feel great. Totally. And it feels great when you're the one who's like everything's going the right way. And it feels like nothing can go wrong. And when you have momentum going for you, it's awesome. And it's like any sport, right? Even football, when the momentum switches and when if a guy's leading and the other guy's catching him, the guy that's catching him can smell blood in the water. And the guy that's leading can feel him catching him. And it's just like it compounds so quick. It does. I love that. So we talked about like who you looked up to coming up and, you know, heroes. So who do you I mean, who do you respect now? Who do you like think you learn the most from now is you're now you're, you know, you're coworkers, you're constituents. You do the same thing. You're competitive, but you're still doing the same job. Yeah. I mean, gosh, I respect all of them. I respect even the guys who I battled with last night or two nights ago in Seattle. Like, um, just cause I know what it takes for me to be at this level. I know it takes the same amount of, you know, commitment, work ethic and all the things for them to be at this level. So I respect everyone. Um, Eli Cooper, they, they both have different ways of, um, Cooper's just, I always say Cooper's a dog. Like you can't count him out. He can qualify 12th. He doesn't care. People say he doesn't have the speed or the this, that, and the other thing. He doesn't care. His mindset is pretty awesome. And Eli, because he's just going to be there, and he's pretty quiet, not very outgoing with, you know, I work so hard. But he just does it, and he's been there for a while, and he stays there, and he's super good. So those two are pretty elite. But how do I count out the whole list of guys, right? Yeah, I know. So it's hard to – They're all so good. Yeah, those two are – they've got pretty strong minds, and that's what I search for all the time. Yeah. Yeah, it's weird that sport is, your guys' sport is so competitive. There's only a certain amount of seats at the table. And Eli, a legend forever, and then still switched. It's still business. But to see him switch bikes and to be, I think he's doing great, crushing it. He won this last weekend. I kind of like that. It's amazing because I could see if I was him, I'd have a chip on my shoulder. And I'd be like, okay, watch this. He never says that because he's, you know, but I just like that. Yeah, he does for sure. And I think Cooper has a, he races with a massive chip on his shoulder. Where's he from? There's people doubting him? I think it came early on when I actually he's even said it so early on when he raced with Adam since we're a grown-up and Adam was always so much better you know and Adam's even talked about it and Coop just gained a chip on his shoulder from that yeah and he he's just he has that that fighter mentality he does some stuff and he does subtle little things that are just like I'm like wow he's a dog, you know, and he just has his little quirky ways of, of being mentally strong. It's cool. Yeah. No, I, I like, I like all the different personalities. So, I mean, the sport needs everybody, but you get like a you so respectful and Eli kind of quiet. Then you get a Hayden, right? Yeah. These characters. It's like, how does that environment work for the racers? Yeah, we kind of talked about it on the mountain this morning. I think it's great. I think our sport needs all the different personalities, and I think sport in general does. Like you said, I race against Hayden, and I respect Hayden. He and I are so not the same as a person, right? But if he's that super flashy, out loud, and that guy, and then I'm more just kind of like the normal dude that walks day to day. So I think that us having all the different personalities is super cool. And it gives the fans the opportunity to be a fan of whatever kind of person or whatever racer they want to be. And it's really cool. It's fun to even race against the guys and just to be around different mindset people, but we all have the same mindset in a sense too, which is cool. Yeah. Some people would say, Hayden talking shit and doing all that, it's like you make it harder on yourself. Because if you make people hate you, you're making your job harder, right? For sure. You make your guys you work with hate you, you're making your job harder. but I almost think I said this on one of these interviews it feel I don't know Hayden I know Brian I don't know Hayden but he might have to do that to get in the zone he needs to be in like if he was do you remember when Conor McGregor turned into like then he was nice and like whatever and then he got his ass kicked I think like some people are just better at playing the bad guy yeah i i 100 agree with that i would say that um he feeds off of it that's what works for him to give himself the very best that wouldn't work for me right you know so yeah different things work for different people um and yeah like he he loves that type of stuff and that's um that's what's cool like i said about you know all the different ways of doing it um that's we referred to cooper webb earlier how i think he loves feeling like he's backed up against the wall and doubted yeah um and i i kind of enjoy feeling doubted like when i say enjoy it like i'm excited to kind of be like oh yeah i remember me yeah you know when um if i've i was injured last year and um the second race i got i was on the podium in second and you know some of the media's like oh man like mackery's back and i'm like yeah like you guys have actually surprised every year when i podium the first time again like right away yeah i'm not surprised like this is what i work for well you needed to do the nate diaz then i'm not surprised right exactly my post after the race like have that sound bite on there yeah yeah it's uh i love well all the personalities elevate the sport you know because you said different people are going to appeal to different segments of the population. Some people are going to like the brash, the loud guy, and some are going to like the Midwestern, you know, just respectful. And that's, that's good. It, it takes everybody, you know, and it's like, I think it's cool. Um, yeah, one thing, uh, one thing I like, like maybe even with these podcasts, I know you've done others, but like just putting different eyes on the sport and because I haven't been around supercross motocross at all, you know, really at all i had bikes growing up but never even just like i said little 50 cc and then i had a street bike but like i'm learning so much about it and it's so interesting and the training and the mindset it's just like that elite level performance is so cool and so many people are seeing it like if you go on youtube and like you put in the cl supercross there's tons of content right and you guys are all featured um your personality is shown and it's just like they're doing a great job building the brand it feels like so i i love seeing it i i just want to keep getting bigger yeah for sure i i agree it's i i said earlier um in the last five or ten years i think it's been cool how it's become more mainstream that's been our goal as a sport yeah to be more mainstream and a lot more people know about it i think that the sport's doing well with branding it and like we're saying different personalities um hayden has a huge following and that's so helpful for our sport yeah um you know ken roxson has a huge following elad tomac like the stars of the sport are getting huge followings bringing um big people with big followings like yourself into the sport it's like it's so cool that you've gained a liking to our sport and and brought your following here and um yeah it's it's what we need oh yeah i i just like shooting a bow on looming field yeah see and and i think it's so cool that i'm here and got to got to run up the mountain with you and shoot a bow with you today like like i said 10 years ago i've been i was like huge fan so this is i'm still like this is rad for me yeah that's uh that's great um so speaking of shooting a bow i heard one comment your dad does talk shit too which is cool but i heard one comment in the bow rack that you have a bigger buck than he has is that true that's true yeah i do uh my first buck i shot is bigger than i think yeah for sure any buck he's back here behind me uh than any buck that he has and this this actually kind of goes back to a funny story we were uh shooting 3d targets with this group when i was younger my older friend who i shot bows with a lot he would go up and to this archery barn and shoot 3d targets and um i'd go with him sometimes on a wednesday and my dad came with us one time and it's a big group of guys and whatnot and um the year prior my dad had shot a deer for we he'd shoot a deer every year for some meat you know and uh there was all these 3d targets and we were shooting them and i walked up to this one and it was this little tiny spike buck uh 3d target and i said dad i was maybe eight at the time so dad that looks like the deer you shot last year right in front of all the guys and he was like you little you know and that that story is pretty funny yeah that was a good one well it's uh shooting a bow today so we had a great day i mean we shot bows we went to good breakfast we did you know hit the mountain in the snow it's like you said tell me about your day what did you think of it i honestly i couldn't have asked for more i was i was really bummed that i i banged up my shoulder so much on on saturday because all day yesterday i was like man i really hope i can shoot the bow with him like because you know and um because my shoulder like like i was saying i kept it warmed up for the main event and stuff and then once it was all over everything swells and tightens up and it just hurts so uh yeah getting up getting to go run up the mountain and then snow at the top rain in that was so fun uh got to bring my dad with us which is such a cool experience for myself and him and then yeah going eating a good breakfast going down to the bow rack shooting um being back here like i couldn't have asked for a better day this was so cool all i wished i would have been able to do was lift together i wanted to do the lift run shoot and i can't i can't lift right now so we got to next time but you're coming back so today today we just set you up with like a low poundage torix and i said we're going to get you the top of the line thing but you shot so well today i mean we had to have it turned down because your arm is like 40 pounds but it's like you're you i mean you take your time technique wise you're so dialed in but very accurate it was i mean yeah you're a great shot thank you and also your cardio holy shit dude you can run up a hill you did great i wish i think we could have pushed a little harder yeah i know you could have pushed a little harder yeah but no it was good pace i mean you're good it was fun yeah i enjoyed it i I was telling my dad last night in the hotel, man, I hope we can suffer pretty good together tomorrow. Yeah. It's going to be fun. Well, I was not expecting you to do as well as you. I don't know why. I mean, I should. I've had – AC did it. He's not racing. Yeah. So whatever. And Brian, of course, he's not racing. They both did it. But I haven't had – I don't think I've had an actual moto guy. Not active. No, no. So I'm like, well, no wonder you guys – people say how good a shape you guys are in because you did great today. That was fun. yeah it was it was great i liked uh towards the end of the climb it just kind of kicks up just a little bit more yeah and you can kind of just dig a little more and i i didn't really know how much farther there was i was like man is this going to be like a false top which are we going to keep climbing which i kept going like i'll keep trying yeah that was it was so epic up there in the snow i mean people are really liking that that reel we put up but uh what yeah what an amazing day so far So what we do is, James usually has some, do you have stupid questions? Yeah. Oh, God. We'll cut this part out because it's usually terrible. We call this the peanut gallery. I love it. We're not even recording, so it doesn't matter what you say. That's not true. Oh. All right, so we always do the same question to everybody to start. And it's, have you played F***ing Mary Kill? Yeah. Okay. All right, so your primary kill is cycling, running, and fishing. All right, I'm going to... Can I think pretty hard on this one? So, I'm going to... You can never do it again if you kill it. Yeah. I'm going to marry cycling. I'm going to f***ing fishing. I guess I'm going to kill running. Ooh. You're a good runner. I'm better at cycling. Really? I do it more. Oh. Dang it. I don't know. Because what are you going to do after racing? That's what I was thinking about. You might do ultras. You might be good. Running to... that was a really good one that was i know i didn't expect that i didn't expect the fishing in there for sure yeah and i did some digging my sister and i love fishing yeah that's like our thing yeah that was a good one okay um next one just kind of talking to you at breakfast i noticed how like a lot of things in your life it seems that you take them all the way it's like black and white. You either got to go all the way or not at all. Um, I just kind of wanted to know, have you always been that way? Is it always been, you know, you walk through the world and that's how you kind of see things or did you develop that mindset at a certain point? I, from the stories growing up, it's always been that way. Um, and I think I've always just been so determined to get whatever that was that I, whether it be, I want to buy a new bow when I was younger. Well, picking up cans and doing whatever working for i'm gonna get that bow yeah like i want that really nice bow too i want the best one and i'll get it i'll figure out how to get it you know and i had to work for it but i'll get it and um yeah that's just kind of how i go through life and um i think a lot of it has to do with how i was raised and my sister's that way and both my parents are that way it's i'm all or nothing i'm all in or i'm all out on something um whether that become that's my friendships, my marriage. Um, I have a daughter on her way, like, you know, so now I'm going to be a father here in a few weeks. And, um, that's amazing. That's the most all or nothing thing you can do in life. So yeah, I've always been that way. And, um, I like to lead my life that way. Yeah, that's good. Um, well, that was a perfect leading because my next question is about fatherhood. Um, you know, I think there's kind of a stigma, at least in professional sports. When people have kids, you know, they lose their edge. So are there things that you're doing to prepare for that? Or do you think your mindset will change or has it? You know, Supercross and Motocross being something that's inherently dangerous, you know, how has that changed for you? I really believe that it's going to help me. And I think it's going to be because I think it's going to give me something else to focus on when I'm not focused on racing. Um, and that was actually when I met my wife, I had never had a girlfriend leading up to when I met my wife. Um, cause ever since, like I said, when I was 16, when my parents, um, I mean, they, they sacrificed so much for me to do what I was doing. I was not going to chase girls. I was going to do everything I could to respect what they've done for me. Um, So I thought girls were a distraction all the way. I mean, I met my wife when I was 22. And then when I met her, I knew she was the one. She was the one that was going to be my partner through life, through racing, through everything. And she was a partner, not just another girl. and um that being said going back to you know that was my career and my racing honestly really improved after that oddly enough because before that i'm such a like we say all or nothing guy where i hyper fixate on racing only that's all i could think about i would leave the track go back to i was renting a room at a friend's house in california or when i lived at club mx or wherever all i thought about was racing and then all of a sudden i had time where i could get away from that for the time when it doesn't matter to just be overthinking about nothing you know you're thinking about problems that don't exist like let's let's work on it tomorrow we're testing and then i think having a kid is going to be a whole nother um unwind that way when i'm at the track i'm only burning track candles there yeah and then i go home and i'm burning dad candles and husband candles. So, um, I really think that that's going to be helpful for me. Um, and yeah, I'm, I raised my family now, you know, not just myself or not just myself and my wife and, um, my parents, like now I've got a baby girl at home, so it's cool. I can't wait for all the challenges of it. I can't wait for the frustrations that I know it's going to be. I really hope I don't get payback from how I was growing up because I can't even imagine raising myself. So, yeah, I'm really excited for it. Oh, that's good. Well, I know it changed me for the better when I had kids because I was a screw up. And that was like, OK, what am I doing? So it is like it's a turning point. And you can what's going to how it's going to impact you is whatever you tell yourself. You know, I mean, if you tell yourself this is good, this is going to make me a better person, a more well-rounded person to uh to have something else as you said to focus on then that's what it's going to do if you tell yourself it's going to be a distraction and you're going to then that's what it'll be so it's uh yeah good question okay last question uh this one might be dumb but um you know like listening to interviews with f1 drivers or other drivers of high speed sports you know they talk about like certain times they've entered kind of like a flow state where it was almost an out-of-body experience they couldn't do anything wrong is there something similar or is it so rough that you're usually always you know pretty uh i don't know conscious of what's going on no there are those days where um you do enter a flow state i've had certain races where it's felt that way and certain days where like you said you can't feel like you can't do anything wrong everything's clicking off just right the laps feel good and those are the days that we that's what brings you back and that's what keeps that's not the only thing that brings you back you know but that's what keeps it so fun because you can seriously have that day and it might be a monday at the test track and then you can go back to the same track the next day you're the same guy as you were 24 hours ago and struggle so bad and it's so weird and that's what the search for greatness And it's so fun to search for your best and to never be able to always get it. Right. Yeah. No, I like that. It's quite a journey, huh? Yeah. Love it. Well, Cameron, it's been, I mean, it's awesome for me to be able to sit down and spend time with you, learn more about your mindset, learn more about you as a person and meet your dad and spend time with you guys together. This has been a great day. I want nothing but success for you. I can't wait to see your baby girl and hope that everything goes well there. I met your wife. And, yeah, I mean, you're credit to society. You're a great young man. And I'm really happy to have met you. So thank you. Thank you for this. Well, thank you. Same to you because this has been a dream of mine for a while. And, yeah, to be able to just share some conversation into your mindset and the way you guys operate and the way you, you know, I've followed your journey, you know, through social media, read your books and watched the documentaries and stuff. And now to hang out, it's, um, I love, we were talking about it, like people want to hate on people that work hard or whatever. And, um, it's real, you just do it. This is just you doing it. And it's, it's really fun. It's been, it's been a dream day. So thank you. Oh, good. All right. Well, thank you. Um, all right guys, keep hammering.