4.10. Disney, US Indoors, and the Atlanta Kerfuffle

What's up everybody? Welcome to another episode of Nobody Asked Us with Dezin, Kara, presented by Brooks Running. The mics are hot. The sounds are warm. Are they warmish? I don't know. The microphone is back. We're back for another week of crazy updates in shenanigans, I guess. Yeah. Kara, how are you? How are you doing? I'm good. Good. I'm good. Good, so right down the middle, it's safe. It feels right. Yeah. I too am good. You're back home. You had a little travel this weekend. How'd that go? It was good. Yeah, I got to go to the indoor champs. I love my job, one of my many jobs like you. You have like 500 jobs. It was fun to work with everybody. Indoor champs, super short meet, two hour window. I was originally on a 730 flight out of Newark. Paul was like, I'm on a, so we wrapped at three, off air at three. Paul's like, I'm going to take a 435 flight out. I'm like, oh no, no, no, 425 flight out. And I'm like, what? And he's like, yeah, so no dilly-dally, no autographs, no photos were straight to the car. So then I like look on United, I'm like, well, if he's going to make a 420 flight, there is a 445 flight to Denver and like he's going to risk it. So I decided to risk it. And so I was home at 828 PM, four cultima went to bed and I made it no problem. It was amazing. He was a little bit tighter, but he made it too. And anyway, Staten Island, right? Is there one that's super close to the airport? Yeah, it's close to Newark. Is it an airport hotel? We stayed at, we stayed in Times Square. Oh, okay. We stayed out at Staten Island last year and not everybody loved it. I don't care because I'm weird and I don't leave my room. I just like order in food and study and like work out in the gym. Every hotel has like a gym that has, I can make anything work. But my coworkers have more of a life and there's this hotel we normally stay in for Milrose and they wanted to stay there and have more of a life, which is totally fine. So we stayed there. If you're in New York, like I can go see the city, do some things like it's a, you know, you can explore a bit. But the airport one, like the hotel, when I did Boston, no, it wasn't Boston. I think they held it at Staten Island. It was a weird year. But anyways, they did the airport hotel. Like you couldn't even get Uber Eats to drop stuff off. They're like, I'm not going to the airport. Like seriously? Yeah. So I think it's maybe, maybe it was a COVID type thing issue, but yeah, that was not my favorite place of all. Okay. So it's funny that you mentioned that because we're going to Boston next week and Colt is racing the freshman mile at the New Balance Indoor High School Meet. Then the next morning we're going to watch our friend's sun race and then we're flying to Newark and just staying at the airport hotel. Nice. And then flying to St. Martin the next day. So great. It's good to know. I'm going to have to, now I need to check and see if they have food. I think it's fine. I think it's probably a COVID thing, but also like you can take an Uber out of there. It was just, yeah, that's true. People were just like, I'm not driving to the airport to drop off food. Right. Yeah, that's fair. Okay. So that was my weekend. I went to New York on Saturday. We didn't end up going over to the meet that day. So I bought a USATF TV subscription for a month so I could watch the races, the 800 first rounds in the 3000s. And then I worked out in their little gym and then we had a big meeting on teams and I went to bed and I woke up and I worked out. I went over to the meet and called it and flew back. So it was like very fun, but not very exciting weekend. So 3000s weren't on TV. Didn't get to call them. Did you do a recap? We did a recap like right before the 1500 started of basically just the last 150 or 100. Not everyone has the USA TFTV. Right. And certainly after this weekend, many people will not be getting it. And many people could potentially be canceling it. Who knows? Right. It was that kind of weekend. It was that kind of weekend. Yeah. Yeah. That's funny. Okay. So tell me about your weekend in which I had people messaging me saying, please tell me Des is running the Disney half or we're going to have a sighting and then they'd message me, we saw her. So tell us about it. So you've known you were going to run it, although you weren't sure of the date you thought it was last weekend. I didn't think it was last weekend. Timing was iffy, but I was glad it wasn't last weekend. It gave me a chance to load up on sleep. Kara, I'll say I had so much fun, which I think always surprised about. They're like, you don't belong there. Like, I had an amazing time. I smiled the whole time. I was thinking a lot about like the first half marathon I ever did was on Disney at a Disney event. And so it was a cool moment to come back and actually run well. I think I ran faster this time than my debut half, which is crazy. But it was fun. I had a really good time. But if you were to do a Disney event, which I recommend you do or anyone who's listening maybe super fun, they start start at 5am. Okay. So this was shocking to me because for some reason, I thought you were running at night and you're like, no, that was in the morning. Yeah. So alarm set 2.30. So when did you go to bed? Like 10.30. I know you're almost like, should I just stay up? I don't know. But I got some sleep. I slept poorly because you're like, I'm going to miss the alarm. And I was thinking about all these different things. And I was thinking about my old dog. And then I got, I was just like the most random things because you're just like, well, I'm going to miss my alarm. So I better just stay awake. Right. We made it. And I went off at 2.30. We were out of the house at 3. Got there. I think that they were like, just be there before 3.45. But we didn't want to like mess that up. Yeah. So yeah, it was a full morning. And then 5am, again, goes off. And we do the princess half. So did you, where did you warm up? Were you able to warm up or did you warm up? We did it quick. I mean, it wasn't like a, like, I'm going to go crush this race. Ryan was trying to do a workout. But I was also realistic, like you're going to get in there and be like, well, no, I'm kind of racing. So, you know, we did one mile, just like a really easy jog. Everything's kind of staged in the park, in the parking lots out there, which is wild, because they started at 5am. And it's not like, oh, it's too hot. It's like, we had to get all the shit cleared out so we can open the parks and not lose a cent. Which is fascinating. Like, they'd get it done. But yeah, so we just, the start line, everything's kind of like in this parking lot. And then you run the highways a little bit. Oh, wow. There's a princess right there. That's Finn. And he's in with me today. And I'm kind of regretting it. He was grooming himself earlier. It was very loud and weird. And now he's just traipsing around. Okay, wait, continue. I like that. We'll give a little interview. Got ahead to the YouTube. And while you're there, hit subscribe. But yeah, no, so it was fun. Yeah, we started at the, it's in the parking lot. You run on the highways for a bit. There's a couple like on ramps. That's the hills. It's mostly flat. And then you do some touring through the park. So, a ton of turns, a ton of little windy turns. And before the race, people were like, oh, appreciate and like really take in Main Street. It's so cool. It's so fun. I'm like, if the parks are empty, I mean, like, it can't be that fun. But it was awesome. Like anybody who's spectating goes down to Main Street. Oh, that's cool. In the park. And then like you have all the lights and the castles lit up. And I know it's kind of cool to feel like a kid again. I love that. So you start, you go outside on the highway, but then you actually come and run through the park. Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty fun. Like the downtown, like the hotel area. And so, I don't actually know. It's so dark. And then there's a lit up. Yeah, little feedback afterwards, right. And I don't, both were like, you can't really see your footing if you're trying to run hard. But if you're leading the race, you get like a bike and the guy was like shining the light on the footing. And then at the end, he was shining it on me so that people across the road could see it and like turn to hype him up. Yeah, we're cool. We had, we were chatting like the whole time. A very nice guy. Oh, that's awesome. So there was a lead biker for the men and the women. Yes. He did an amazing job. There were a lot of turns, a lot of places that would have went, you know, when they've been good. Yeah. I think that's so fun. There was, there was so much. I just had a few random people that I've never met in real life that were like, oh my gosh, is this what you've been hinting to? Is she going to show up tomorrow? And I was like, I don't know. And then they were so excited because they, a couple of them got video of you running in and then they sent it to me and they were like, we saw her. So it was awesome. And it looked like it was a lot of fun. And it looked like you were genuinely having fun. It was, it was so much fun. And then you're done by like, we were getting bagels at like 730 and then we were like eight o'clock. Wait, when does the park open? I think, I want to say 10. Okay. I don't know. There's like a hard cutoff time. It's like, we will scrape you off the road, put you in the vehicle with the cones. Because that spot could be used for right. Hard to park. Okay. Yeah. Honestly, operationally, it's amazing. I think it was 27,000 runners. That's crazy. Which is crazy. And then they do a 5k and a 10k the day before. A little drama with that apparently in the 5k, like who the winner was, chip time, gun time, some stuff. I don't know the whole detail. So I'm not going to weigh in on it too much, but there's been a couple comments floating in like, check out this story, which I will, but I don't know enough to talk about it in an educated way on this pod. But we can tell people what the difference between gun time and chip time is, right? Like this happened at the Nike Women's Marathon one year where they had the quote unquote elite women line up on the start line. And then it was just one kind of filtering start, like everyone just lined up and filtered through. And then a woman who was not in that lead group who started minutes behind ended up running faster than all the other women that were in the front. And then it was like this big controversy, like, is she the winner? She not the winner. So your gun time is whenever the gun goes off for everybody. Right. Right. And the back of the wave, there's going to be a little buffer like three seconds, you know, yeah. And then, but your chip time is when you actually crossed the mat to start and finish. And I'm sure actually our listeners know that. But so there was a little gun time chip time issue there too, which I mean, it happens. Right. That's a thing that we're going to talk about some other drama later today, but that's a thing that is just always going to be there. You're going to have people that run faster than they expected and stuff like that. And so, I mean, races are going to do their best to line up the people in front who they think are going to be the contenders. But I don't know, maybe I'm being too nice, but I feel like gun time chip time stuff is going to always be an issue. That's why you have the chip time. Right. I mean, if you truly want to win, get it to the race on time. So good. Yeah. Yeah. You care. Like that's a good place to start that you care. And then compete with the people who are trying to break the tape. Right. Now, if you just want to run fast and you don't care about breaking the tape or calling yourself the winner, show up whenever you want. Right. Or stay home and run a 5k and count your strava time. I don't care. Right. You know what's funny you saying that like get there on time? Like I was this official starter for the Bullarthom this year. Yeah. And we've like people went the wave went the next wave went and then the marathoners were starting actually can't remember. I think the half marathoners started first. And then like people were just showing up and they're like, Oh, did it already start? I'm like, what? And they're like taking pictures on the starting line. And I'm like glad that you're having fun. But you know what the start time is. Right. Like, you know, yeah. Little king in the background. This is okay. No, he's fine. I'm dying. You should drape him over your neck. I'm just going to introduce this is our only male pet. This is Finn. Look at those eyes. He's a gorgeous cat. Super soft. Has so much attitude. He's like kind of he's very lazy. He's a coddler, but then he'll just do wild stuff like last night in the middle of the night, he was like running across Adam and I's heads, you know, and like scratching the headboard. And so, you know, he's one of those. He's a typical cat, but he has a beauty, right? Look at him. Yeah. He's so cute. Do cats do boop boop boop? He looks pissed, but he's actually probably He's like, he's like, Okay, I'm going to put him down now. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. Okay. So I want to know, I actually want to go back to your half. When's the last time you're in a half? Probably last New York half. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's about a year. Okay. So you start, are you hoping to win? Kind of. I wasn't like, I was going to do a workout, at least some of it, with Ryan and at least the beginning of it. And I did that. So I went out, like we were, we were running, we started like six minute pace and ran a couple miles, six, five, 50. And then I was like warmed up and I was like, okay, bye. But I didn't think I was going to get the overall win. I think he ended up, the winner, the men's winner was like a minute ahead of me. I would have had to commit to that, off the line, I think. Yeah. Yeah, I was hoping to break a tape because it's always fun. It's so fun and it doesn't happen very often, right? Like when you're on the elite side, it's really rare that you get to break the tape. It's so fun. And confetti, Amanda, I mean, well, the other thing is it is a Brooks race. So there's like a bunch of like our buddies out there and like people from Brooks in town to run it. So I was talking to Amanda before the race and then she texted me afterwards. She was like, confetti, when you break the tapes, that World Marathon majors doesn't do that. Like this is the only thing. And I was like, I know, I loved it. I got to pose with a character. I think it was Daisy. It was a duck. Oh, nice. Were there a lot of characters out? So they have them like every mile. There's like a little scene set up and there's music playing and like all the songs. Yeah, so there's a ton of characters out and a lot of people stop and take photos. So that was the big comment people were sending me. Like, did you stop and take photos too? I did not. Not this time. Not this time. Maybe next time. Okay. See, scout it out and see like, how do I want to run this race? And so I took a little tour this time and then maybe next time it'll be different. Yeah. Well, I think it's fun to go do races off the radar of everyone's watching and everyone's expecting something. I think it's awesome that you did it. And I know we talked about this before, but there was a little comment about like, you shouldn't be doing that. And I'm like, what? She shouldn't go have, she's not allowed to have fun. Oh, that's ridiculous. You're a fun governor, are you? Are you gonna keep the fun now? I just think like pros are people and sometimes they want to go do a different race and have fun. And I mean, I, I think it's funny too, because like I love to run 5Ks now, but nobody cares because I'm not fast anymore. So like, when is the cutoff of like, you're a lot, you're not allowed to do it, but now you are, you know what I mean? I just think it's like pros are people, I used to love to go run the Grammys half no matter what kind of shape I was in. And it's just like, I ran, you know, I guess this person said turkey trots are the exception, but I ran a turkey trot one time and it was kind of rude because Shlain and I were running it together and then I purposely kicked because I wanted to win the pie. I want that pie. Sorry. And it was delicious. But it's like, you're not, you've got to be able to have fun with the sport and you ran awesome and people were excited to see you. That's a win for everybody involved. I hope so. I think so. And it wasn't like, I didn't want to make it like an appearance or like, oh, I'm here to like stomp your face or what any of that stuff is. It's just like, I'm, I'm in town. I want to run this race. It'll be cool. It'll help Brooks, all these different things, a lot of reasons to run it. But also a couple of years ago, I did the co-hasset by the sea 10K, which was awesome. Love that. And I didn't feel like any of tension either. Maybe I'm wrong and people can weigh in in the comments. Do you want to see pros casually show up and have fun and mix it up and act like regular people? Right. Or do you think pros, because we get it, like all the time, it's like pros don't race enough. Right. Don't see them race enough. Like, why aren't they out there? And then you show up and race. It's like, well, race more, but not here. And not like, it's not like, and I'm not even, and I'm using the word pro, which I've considered myself, not really a pro on the roads anymore. So that's even another step away from it. But like, what do people want? Do, in way, and this is like a real question for the audience, like, let us know. Would that be cool? Is that a thrill to see? Is it fun? Or are you like, no, I've been training super hard and I wanted to win the co-hazit 10K and like, fuck you, Des for showing up that year. I think I am interested in what people think. I read, is it cow harbor? Okay. And it's, there's a half marathon. I think I went one year, like starts in a cow pasture. Oh, wow. Okay. And then it's a half marathon and then it ends in the cow pasture. And I went there and I like ran it hard. Like I was like, I need a hard effort and I don't want anyone to beat me. I think it was in 2019. And nobody cared. Everyone was like so excited that I was there and I met so many cool people and then I got to cheer everybody on and it was so fun. So yeah, I just, I just, I had this person that made the comment actually really like, but I disagree with the comment that pros can't go and run races for fun and be like, enjoy the experience in a different way where there aren't cameras in your face and there aren't people holding a clock to see what time you're running and obsessing over your splits and you get to just go run and be a runner and have fun. Like you're allowed to experience that culture too is my take. Yeah. And I do think there's something about like getting a win, you know, like I've spent most of my career world marathon majors and trying to make Olympic teams. Like it's super hard to win. Yes. So to have a day where I was like, oh, this is cool. Like I am running somewhat hard. Like I ran the second half pretty hard. And like I got to experience like breaking a tape. That was pretty cool too. It is so cool. Sorry, not sorry. Don't be sorry. Win, win, win. Everybody that I knew was pumped that you were there. Good. Yeah. Well, next year, pick a princess event and come on out. I can't, I mean, you really should do it. I do want to do it. We kind of soft pitched the pod to a Disney event. We're like, we would do a pod there. Yes. I could run the 10K or something. Yeah. I don't know. My run is actually going decent right now, but now I'm going to knock on wood. Yeah, I will too. You're getting, well, you're fine tuning things for the BA 5K, correct? I'm not going to run it anymore. Okay. So I was the two time masters champion. Someone else is going to win this year. I'm not going to do it anymore because Colt races every weekend in April and I'm going to miss them all except for that weekend he races on Friday. So now I'm going to stay home and flying on Saturday and not race the Boston 5K, which I'm actually legitimately sad about because I'm not in speed shape, but I just really like doing it. It's like such a friendly race to do. Like people are just cheering it so awesome, but I won't be there this year. I got to cheer for my child. That seems like a fair. Yeah. Do you have a race on your schedule or are you just kind of keeping it? Well, I was going to run a 5K in London, but I found out that there is no 5K there. So probably that went up for you. I mean, I'm going to find, I'm definitely going to run the 5K at Gramm is now that was kind of like, I was like, I don't know if, if, if Boston or London goes well, I might just be done for the year. But now that neither of those are happening, I'm going to, I am definitely going to do the William A. Irving 5K again. And the course was, was new last year and it was harder than I thought it was going to be. Plus I just had a really bad dystonia day, but I'd like to go back and try to run like, this is so pathetic, but I'd love to try to go around like 20 or 30 seconds faster. So that'll probably be my one big race of the year. I promise everyone who beats you will dunk on you. Guess who I beat? Last year it was so funny because I, a 12 year old one. Nice. And then I think like a 13 or 14 year old was second. And then an actual woman was third and then I was fourth. An actual woman. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like they're so cute. Like I was running. I was like behind them. I don't remember how much they beat me by about like over 30 seconds though. And I would could see them and they, I thought at first I thought, well, they're going to slow down. And then I was like, they're not, they're so cute. And they just like tried it away from me. Yeah, it was adorable. And then I was in a battle for a while for fourth with an 11 year old. Did you get spicy coming in? Oh, I eventually just had to put her away with like a half mile to go. And I was suffering. It was not a good day for me, but I was like, I can't get beat by this girl. I just can't. And it was like, afterwards it was funny because, you know, I started running for the high school when I was 12. And I was like, this is probably what everyone felt like. I mean, this is worse because I'm a grown adult, but it is kind of annoying to get beat by the little girl. I get, I get the other perspective now. They deserve to beat me. They were better. But I understand both perspectives now. It is a little annoying. I'm frustrated by you. Yeah, you're amazing. Still not happy about the situation though. It's too funny. All right, well, okay, I out in grandma's results on the 5k. We'll get some turning updates. We'll learn here at some workouts along the way. But all that to say, Disney next year. Yeah, I really think that would be fun. And I think I'm, I have this dream of running farther next year, whether it's a 10k or a half. Okay. I am doing something different that seems to be working. I'm hesitant to share. I'm totally going to share, but I'm hesitant to share until multiple months have gone by. But right now, by the way, when I say it's going well, I mean, I'm having, I'm not, it's my dystonia isn't gone, but I'm able to run outside with a lot more comfort level. And so before I would try to run like 30, 35 miles a week, and now I've been trying to run 40 and with a day off. And so, I don't know, this sounds so pathetic telling someone like you, but it's like, I feel like I'm actually starting to build some base fitness. And then I'm like, ooh, maybe then I can start introducing workouts and you know, blah, blah, blah. It never goes out of you, does it? No, I know. It doesn't matter how the shape you are, you're always like, well, maybe I could build some fitness and then I could do something. Sounds like the past couple weeks at least, you've been more confident with it. Yes. Exciting. Because yeah, I mean, whatever your measuring stick is with your races and stuff, it's like, it's fun to just be out there and compete. Yeah, like yesterday or not yesterday, on Thursday, I went for my house and ran up the canyon. I haven't done that in over a year. Nice. And it's, how long was that? It's, I ended up turning at four and a half miles. But it's, I haven't risked something like that in a really long time where it's like, I'm going to be on pavement a lot and it's an out and back and I could get stuck out there. And yeah, it just felt like when I turned around, I was like, oh my God, I made it. I made it here. And maybe I'll go out five next time. Anyway, that's exciting. It is exciting. It's fun. It's fun to be outside. I spent so much time on the lever and the lever literally saves my life, but it has been so nice to run. Normally, I run outside twice a week or so, but now I've been running outside like four days a week and it's just been really nice to get fresh air more often. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Good catching up. Do we feel good about that? I feel good about it. Yeah. Let's save our sponsor for after our first big topic. Where are you going to start? Well, are we talking about the half marathon chance right now? We can start there. We can start with the U.S. indoor. Okay. Let's do U.S. indoor first. Okay. Because it's easy and clean. So there's three distance races and I don't know if you caught any of it, but the women's 3000 was crazy. Like they went out in nine minutes for the first K or sorry, three minutes for the first K, which would be a nine minute 3000. It was one in 830. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Basically, they went through the K in three minutes and then LA St. Pierre was like, nah, I'm done. And she just started hammering and hammering and hammering and she just kept ratcheting it down a little bit more, a little bit more, at least cranny with her, went with her, and then she dropped at least cranny. And then you just saw Emily Mackay start to work her way back slowly, but surely work her way back. And then she latched on to Ellie, maybe like a couple laps to go. And then she went by her on the back stretch on the final turn and they ran 830 and 831, breaking a 36 year old record from Lynn Jennings, who's one of my personal idols back in 1990. And I'm so excited about this team because they both advanced onto world championships. And when you're running 830, starting off at nine minute pace, both of these women have a shot at a medal. It's always like, oh, they're good, but they don't have that closing speed. Yep. I think they've got it. Yeah. I mean, Emily Mackay closed in under 30 for her last 200. You know, LA St. Pierre won the gold medal at the World Indoor Championships two years ago. She's in way better shape now. So I'm so excited about this team. I wish I was calling it. I'm not calling it because I'll be on spring break with my family, but I'm so excited about the women's and the men's 3000 meter teams. I think they have a really good chance to win some medals. And on the men's side, it was really different. It was not like a burner like the women's was. It was definitely more tactical. And then like, I think Cole Hawker led for a long time. And then oh, Matt Wilkinson went and just started hammering from the front. That started to drag it out. And then Nico Young went and just started hammering. And then they came and then you could see Cole Hawker kind of like moving, moving yard and Goose was a little bit better positioned. And but Nico was just flying. And then they come around the corner towards the finish and it's literally a blanket finish. But what was crazy was they had this photo of them and Cole Hawker's face is so calm and Nico and Yard are just straining so much. And they both ended up catching Nico and Cole won and Yard was second. And I felt so bad for Nico Young because it was such a good race. But that's, that's the brutalness of indoor. You only get to send two to World Champs. And it looked like just like Myler mentality one. It was just like, we know how to lean. We know we have to. We know that this is how you make teams is how you win medals. And Nico knows that, but I don't think it's as utilized in the 5K, 10K, right? You're like rarely happens. Or maybe I'm misreading it. Maybe it's more common now, but it just seemed like the two 15-inch meter guys timed that perfect. Yeah, they were like, you know, like Yard came on the inside, Hawker went on the outside. But like again, what an awesome team, no matter which three, which two it had been, but it will be ended up being Hawker and Ngoose. An amazing team. I think Yard won the Silver in the 3000 in 2024 at the indoor World Championships and Cole won the Silver in the 1500 in 2024. So I again, two amazing athletes. I think the US 3000 meter teams like literally couldn't be better. It's cool that it seems like the top two are taking it. You know what I mean? It usually rolls down a bit. Well, it's indoor as well. I don't want to travel like all the things. Everyone pretty, seems pretty amped on indoor. Yeah, which is great. It is great. All right. And then you come back day two. Day two there, we had the 800s first and Addy Wiley won the women's 800. Valerie Tobias of Brooks Beast Club was second. So she makes her second world indoor team. It was an interesting 800 meter race because Sage Hurd-A-Clecker just didn't look like herself in the preliminary rounds, didn't get through. And it felt like, and Addy Wiley has made a world indoor team before, but has had some problems like unlucky stuff, like getting tripped, stuff like that, like hasn't had a ton of luck in US championship finals. So it was kind of a fresh class. Like Valerie shocked everyone last year by breaking two for the first time and making the team. But she's not like this super known name in the 800 in the US yet. So it felt like this was a cool opportunity for the next gen, like once Sage moves on and whatever to kind of like make their mark. And Addy Wiley was so excited and Valerie hung in tough to hang on to that second position. And she was just ahead of Hunter, I can't think of her name, out of BYU. So it was just, it was a great race. And it was like a little peak to the future. Like these could be the women pushing for 2028. Yep. That's exciting. I feel like that event just moves quick. It does. Someone shows up, they're there for a flip. But yeah, it's nice to see some real young guns that who might be sticking around for a while. Yeah. The men's eight was all about Cooper Leckton House and when is he going to take the lead? And I just can't get over how this high school kid who's only 17, a year ago, he was running in Milrose and breaking high school records, you know, shocked himself setting a three second PR to make the world championship team. And everyone was like, Oh, he's so, this is such a fun story. He's just a little kid. And then not even a year later, everyone in that race was completely focused on him, basing their race strategy and the race plan on him. And I'm like, this is crazy how quickly things change, you know? And I was pretty confident he was going to win, but it's a totally new situation to be in. Like you're the favorite, because Josh Hoey, who has the world record, has been injured basically since he ran that world record. And then I'm not sure why Donovan Brayser and Bryce Hopple didn't run. They're always really nice to Cooper, but maybe they just don't feel quite fit and they don't want to risk getting beat by the high school. Which I don't play a mom. And so it was just an interesting race to watch because you could tell that there was a lot of talent in that field. Like Isaiah Harris has made two world teams, he was in that field, he ended up third. But everyone was like, even when they were ahead of him, they were looking to see where he was. Right. Gaging off him. He's definitely the leader in the pack, even though he's not. Right. He's only 17, right? Like he's never been in a position. I mean, last year it was like, oh, fun. He's in the back of the packet at Millrose and he broke the high school record. Isn't that cute? How cool. And then. Well, I mean, what do you think about world medal chances? Like the way he ran the rounds looked like pretty savvy. I mean, obviously winning the final, I think a lot, like you said, people are kind of deferring to him and like gauging off of him at worlds. It sounds like he's going to take the spot. He's going to be mixing it up where no one really cares or no one's going to defer. How does that change things? Does he have the speed? What do you think? I think, I mean, he is a crazy talent. Yeah. But one thing he doesn't have is experience and that he can't help that. Right? I mean, his one race last year, I mean, he ran USA's, he ran amazing, moved through the rounds, made the team, but he got knocked down in the first round at Worlds and not because he wasn't good enough to move on, but I think like it's, it's experience of getting there and realizing you have to run every race like a final and you have, like those kinds of things. So I think he, if he makes the final, all bets are off. Who knows what will happen? I really hope he makes the final. He's definitely talented enough to make the final. It's just, he needs a few more, like what, when he's going to be crazy is when he has a couple years of racing Diamond Leagues under his belt and learning, like you just have to go through it to learn it. And right now he's a good tactician considering he's 17. You never see him go out too hard, but it did seem not, I don't want to say it was sloppy, but you know, he's kind of like looking over his shoulder because he had more in his back pocket, but he didn't know if he should use it. And that's just stuff he'll get with experience. So I think he has the talent to run with probably pretty much anyone. It's just the one thing holding him back is just experience. Yeah. Yeah. So it's awesome to see him going to Worlds and exciting like that because it's just going to, one more round of good reps. Yeah. He just seems like such a great kid. And then Sean Dolan, I think was second who like first world championship team for him, which was awesome. And then I do have to say, I was really hoping Isaiah Harris was going to make it. He moved late with like 50 to go and he ended up third, but he's had a lot of like injury stuff and he's healthy now. But I just, he's the guy with the standard though. I don't know if the guy finished second half. Right. So he might get to go. Yeah. Yeah. Which would be, but yeah, I never want to cheer against anyone. So I wasn't cheering against Sean, but I was just like, come on, Isaiah, get there, get there, get there. It was cool to see him back out there because he's had, he's had a lot of lumps the last couple of years, which is injuries and like near misses. Like he was fourth at USA's last year. So yeah. 1500s. Do we have 15s? Yeah. So the women's was really good. Emily Mackay came back from the 3000, Sinclair Johnson, who I just think is so talented was in there. Gracie Morris, who's been running really well, won fifth avenue mile and won the US Cross 2K championship and Nikki Hiltz, obviously. And it was a fascinating race actually, because I thought that they would take it to try to wear Hiltz out. Like, did you know the national record for the interim meets 408? I couldn't believe that. Right. And they're like, do you think it's going to fall today? I'm like, yeah. And then of course they like went out and jogged. Like, oh, there's a reason why that's the record because it's so tactical, especially when there's only two spots. But it was a good race. It wound up this woman. I had never, I didn't really know butler. She went and just started hammering and actually gap the field for a minute. Like I think she caught everyone off guard. There was like a few strides where she actually opened up a little gap. I mean, Nikki responded right away, but she opened up a little gap over Nikki. And then everyone else kind of closed down on that. But Nikki Hiltz is just like, they've just figured out how to win. Yeah. No panic. Yeah, it's such a skill. No panic. I know I can do it. And very similar to the men's 3000, it was a blanket finish with Butler, Morris and Hiltz and I mean, Morris was like so excited. And so was Butler, which was actually really cool to see someone like break through. But they were straining coming in and you know, Hiltz was just like not. And so it was, it was a good race and Hiltz now goes foreign row indoor with her three in a row outdoor for seven straight US titles in a row. That's, that's incredible. We're starting to talk about like Jenny Simpson territory, you know. Yeah, dominant. Yeah. Impressive. Yeah. And then on the men's side, was that a surprise for you? I don't have to totally flip the switch, but no, I was surprised. But then when I thought about it, I was like, why am I surprised? Like they, so Yarra Nuguz and Cole Hawker came back and I kind of thought that they would win. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's just like, you know, I should have gotten a clue because like Emily McKay looked tired in the women's 15, which was right before. But I just was like, I mean, they just seem like they're a tier above. Yeah, like they got this and and Cole Hawker led for a little while. He led for a little while. And then other people started making moves. And then Luke Hauser made this huge move. And it was almost like, it was almost like Yard and Hawker didn't take it totally seriously. And, but then he just kept it on the gas all the way to the finish. I mean, he ended up getting caught by Nathan Green, but he got second and he's going to worlds. Yeah. So it just, it was interesting. They looked a little tired. And then I also think sometimes on an indoor track, it can be deceiving. Like you go to kick on the back stretch and you're like, I have time, but you actually don't. Like when you make that turn for home, you don't have 100 meters. You only have like 40 meters. So I think some tactical errors maybe. And then also like they're human and maybe they were tired from the day before. I mean, I do feel like Hawker and Nuguz were trying to get through the 3000 as easy as possible because they knew they were coming back, but it still takes it out of you. And you know, like these other guys are ready to pounce. Like if you give them an inch, they're going to take it. And Luke Hauser just bet on himself. And it was awesome. And so he makes the team for the second year row. And then Nathan Green, we didn't even mention him. Like because he was back, but then he just started hauling on the final lap and he ended up out kicking Luke Hauser. And he's, you know, he's just like such a nice kid. I've never met him, but I remember for our notes last year, it talked about how he, you know, he was a two-time NCAA champion at Washington, then he had to really just like find his love of the sport again. I think that's really relatable to a lot of us. Like sometimes you kind of fall out of love with it. So I was super happy to see him win. It was pretty cool. I just felt bad because we didn't even talk about him. Yeah. I mean, it's indoor is tough. It's such a short race. You're doing like who are the key people to focus on? You have, you know, medallists. Yeah, I know, right? You have to look at the champions and stuff, but I still felt bad because yeah, I think one time Paul was like, Oh, that's Nathan Green. He, he ran for the University of Washington. Then all of a sudden we're like, he's winning. I'm like, dang it, we should have given him his flowers more. But yeah, that's just racing. It happens. So that's also a good way to remind everyone that you're there and like, Hey, don't forget about me next time. Yeah, totally. Oh, we will never make that mistake. Yeah. Learned. Thank you. Yeah. So yeah, it was a good, it was a good weekend. It was a good meet. And I'm excited about all our teams, but I'm very excited about the 3000 teams, both men and women. I think they have a chance to do something pretty cool. And I do think I, who know, I mean, Luke Hauser won a bronze last year. So you never know. But I think Nikki has a good chance too. They've just been running really strong and really smart and they won Milrose. So I don't know. It could be cool to see Nikki become like a world champion. Absolutely. Yeah. When do the start list drop? Do we know when teams are being filled out when we start looking for this stuff? I think we won't know for, for at least, so the, the championships are in like three weeks, basically, I don't think we'll know for a little bit while longer, because it's my understanding that people can chase times. Okay. So I don't think we'll know until, at least for another week or so. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's exciting. World teams on the line, big things happening before we get into another world or next world selection event. Meat and potatoes, if you will, of the show. Let's talk about some other meat and potatoes that might grace your plate. We have a new sponsor this week. We do. Your box, which is super exciting. Check out the show notes, but you can go to butcherbox.com slash nobody. A little change for your codes and your websites, just nobody. But some really cool offers there. I've gotten some of the products. We use a lot of mule delivery services because our grocery store options are limited up in Charlevoix. And then we're traveling around a lot. It's just nice to have some consistency. And the meat is just like chef's kiss, really good cuts, really great flavor, super healthy. You can read all the details of the products you're getting on the website. But yeah, some cool offers they are giving to our audience. Let's see. We can get our choice between organic ground beef, chicken, shrimp in every box for a year plus $20 off when you go to butcherbox.com slash nobody. That's right. Your choice of organic ground beef, chicken, or shrimp in every box for an entire year plus $20 off your first box and free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com slash nobody. And user site because that lets them know you heard about them from us, which helps us sponsor the pod. And yeah, again, we don't put our name on anything that we don't use and love. I know. I'm sorry for all the vegetarians and vegans that listen to us, but I literally grew up on meat and potatoes. And I also have just always needed a lot of protein. I just have. And especially after I've entered my forties and I'm well into my forties now. So we eat a lot of meat in this house because I grew up in a meat eating household. So I don't want to scare my vegans and vegetarians away. But for those of you who are big time protein people like I am, this is amazing. It's such high quality. So I'm super pumped about this little partnership we have going on here. And if you are a vegetarian, I believe you can drop in and they have things like potatoes and I don't think there's vegetables like greens and stuff like that because it's probably all frozen, but there are some options, I'm sure that might work with asides for your meals as well. So check it out and show them some love. Yeah, that's great. That's perfect. You feel good about that. I'm super excited about this partnership. I'm not going to lie. I love me. I mean, I literally came back from my run today and ate fruit and chicken breasts. So I am a carnivore. I love shredded rotisserie chicken so much. It's like one of my favorite things. So I'm like super excited about this relationship because I'm going to get so much meat. I can't wait. The cuts are incredible. It's just amazing to dig through and see all the different things they have. So check it out. And we can share notes. Maybe we can do a recipe for our next step. You could kind of come up with something. Kara's plate, Des' plate. I don't know. We'll get creative because I'm sure you guys don't love when we read these, but we have to introduce you correctly. And then maybe we'll tee you up and then we can all share a meal on the third one. There you go. I like it. So back to the meat and potatoes of the show. Let's talk about the USATF half marathon national championship. Kara, you've got feelings, you've got opinions. I do. You've come back and forth a little bit, but I think I want to hear where you're at first and then we can discuss. Yeah. Okay. Well, basically what I just feel, my bottom line is that if an event is USATF certified, then it should be perfect. Athletes should not have to be worrying about anything and let alone if it's a selection for a world team. And so I know that people make mistakes. I know that things happen, but this is such a bad situation. So for those of you who don't know, essentially yesterday, we record on Mondays. So yesterday was the USATF half marathon championship in Atlanta. And by the way, Atlanta's done a great job with running. They have their track club. They hosted an amazing Olympic trials back in 2020. They've done a lot of good for the sport, but yesterday was not so great. So there's a world road running championship this year. Top three across the line automatically advanced to that world championship. And right, I think it's sometime after mile 11, Jess McLean is out in the lead, behind her is Emma Grace Hurley and Edna Kurgot and they're running their way onto the team. And I don't know if you saw the footage, I'm sure you did, but all of a sudden it's like we're not on the course anymore. And they're following the lead vehicle. So they're following the truck that's like doing the shot of everything. And they realize they're off course, Carrie, I think I always want to call her Verdon because that was her name when she gave us that cult. But I think her last name is Elwood now. I think so. I'm so sorry, Carrie. You're going to be Carrie Verdon forever for me. She also was in fourth and she also went the wrong way, but didn't go quite as far. Anyway, they had to turn around, it was over a minute that they ran extra and they ended up coming in. I'm not even sure what place they ended up coming in, but way back in the pack. And you have the first three women across the line who are breaking the tape and being told they're going to Worlds. And they're also confused because they knew this group of women had broken away from them. And you can't go back and redo it. Everybody's schedules are so tight and things are worked in and people prepared for this specifically to make this world championship team. So it's not like you can go, oops, let's just run it again in a month or let's just, and so now we have the top, you had to be in the top five to be eligible for this meet to go on to Worlds. None of the women that were in the lead in that top three were in the top five. You have three women who did cross the line, did nothing wrong, who feel weird about the way the race unfolded. And it's the women who were, went the wrong way, missed out on prize money, an opportunity to represent their country, and the feeling, you know, we were talking about breaking that tape. National championship. Someone missed out on national championship. And so I feel a lot of anger about this because I just feel like this is what the athletes are supposed to be protected. Things are supposed to be set in place that nothing like this ever happens. And again, it's like, maybe we can right the wrong and we can get into that with some solutions maybe, but the moment is gone. And yeah, I just felt so angry and disappointed. Tell me your thoughts when you first heard about it. I mean, it's super frustrating. I think that immediately you know, like this is going to be a bigger story. And I like, I think that part is really one of the most frustrating things is this will get traction. And it's another story where running looks ridiculous or I can feel the fails or doping and like you can't even get your course right, whatever it is, like it's going to be a bigger story because had it just been results, it would have been like, oh, that's your little world. And this stuff always catches on. So that's frustrating because it makes it look like amateur hour and it's not. Right. I think secondly, I think the internet is so quick to just be like, fuck you make it right. It's like, look, I promise you the people who went the wrong direction feel the worst. Right. You know, like so those people you're just like kind of gutted for them to like, yeah, like it's going to be on you. It's going to be blamed on you. But you know, that's not I don't think they went into the day with malicious intent. So they're going to get harped on the most, which rightfully so. But I don't think they're terrible people. And right, there is no way I don't think there's like a straightforward way to correct it. As you said, in that makes everyone feel whole, you know, it's like, how can we make the best out of a shitty situation? And that's kind of where we're at. But I do think, well, I think USATF as per usual passed the buck. But I do think Atlanta Track Club is an organization full of really good people who do a lot of really great things. I feel like, again, they probably feel the worst. But I think they, I think they will make it right as they possibly can. So I'm not mad at them yet, because I'm giving them the space to be like, yes, do do what you can do and you can't fix it all. But what's the plan here? Right. So I talked to someone yesterday who I'm not going to say who it was, because I didn't ask permission, but they are very close to the source on all of this. And they said that there were appeals filed immediately. Sure. But, and I agree that USATF kind of passed the buck, but there is nothing in the rules that allowed them to step in. I mean, like the results stand, even though, yes, the course wasn't properly marked or this or that. And so it's such a disaster. And I just, I feel, and like we talked about this a little, he's coming back. He wants to touch my computer. That's the problem. We talked about this a little bit. I personally don't think that athletes should have to know the course. I know you feel a little bit differently. Someone explained it to me yesterday, like, you know, with USATA, what you, what you put in your body, it's up to you. And maybe it is contaminated. And unfortunately, that's a risk you take. It's sort of like this, like you should know the course. But I just feel like that's totally unrealistic to ask every athlete to know the course, to know where they're going. I mean, there's a lap counter. I used to run the 10,000. I'd be like, what? I don't even know where I am in this race, you know, and thank God for the lap counters. So I could be like, Oh, no, I need to start moving now or no, not yet, whatever. I think like when you're running, especially for a national championship, and there's a video camera on you, you're not paying attention. You're just running. You can't even see probably in front of the truck in front of you that's filming you. So I don't, I know that there is some feeling like the athletes have to hold a little responsibility. I actually am not going to do that to them. Personally, I just feel like, yeah, I don't feel like they own this. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm not, I wouldn't shift blame and be like, this is on you. I think it's you're relying on the trucks. I'm just thinking of like, tech meetings. And I think like, if you're going by the book, they're going to say, here's the course map, look at it, learn it because they don't want, it's like a liability thing. Yeah. For this exact instance, is that right or wrong? I don't know. But there's also been a lot of occasions where athletes get so locked in following a truck like Steven Sambu missing the 8k world record, he follows it off. It's like, no, we told you, like, don't just follow the truck. Right. It's like Marcel, who get the finish loses the course record in Boston. I mean, there's all kinds of examples. So I think you have to say that. And then that becomes like, almost like, okay, well, you should also know it so that they can share the responsibility. Is that right or wrong? For me, the difference between like a Marcel Hogue situation and this is that Marcel was told at the technical meeting, right? The, the press truck will, will pull off before Boilston and then you have to go down by yourself. A different camera is going to pick you up. And he was so in the moment. And yeah, he missed out on a course record. He missed out on a bonus. But this feels different to me because they weren't told it's going to pull off to the side at some point, right? And I also wonder, I mean, I don't know enough here, but if a championship and a selection is on the line, shouldn't USATF officials be out in the morning making sure that the course is marked properly? I mean, just for a safety concern, like, what if Jess had run into oncoming traffic or you know what I mean? Well, and I also, I question who is the T this is what's kind of strange is like, who's leading is the TV truck leading? Is that USATF or is it a lead vehicle leading? Is that Atlanta track club? You know, like, how did everyone miss that turn? Right. Right. TV lead vehicle cops athletes. And no one like not a single person was like, hmm. You know, like, it's just a strange, which again, you go back to the cones and the setup of the course and the whole thing. It's like, well, I don't know, like, I don't know if we can put this on any one person, but who made the first wrong turn? Yeah, you're going to get the responsibility. And I don't know who that is, you know? Yeah. I mean, that's the thing is that that's all stuff in my mind that is like, if you're going to be hosting a championship and if USATF is going to be selecting these places, that should be like so lined out like this person's driving, the directions are in their car on their phone. I don't know, I that it's going to be super clearly marked. I mean, I just, this is one of those situations where it's like, you can't go back and fix it. So it's like, moving forward, there's just, to me, it feels like a lot of steps missed. Like, why isn't USATF out on the course the morning before making sure it's marked properly? Right. I mean, I mean, I know they are in the bid to have like, Hey, you're hosting it. What does the course look like? What's your organization look like? Again, I don't know like who to push that on. Right. But then at the same time, I, and I'm not doing this to be contrarian or like argue, but just mentally for myself, you get there early, you run the last couple turns. And if it's like, okay, this is where I'm going to make my move. This is where, you know, we're heading towards the stadium, things like that you kind of think about. I mean, I don't pin that on the athlete, but also like, how long do you just have your head down versus when are you like, Oh, this like Spidey sense go off. Like this doesn't feel right. See, I don't have any, I didn't have any Spidey sense when I was running, when I was racing, no Spidey sense whatsoever. I definitely would have gone the wrong way yesterday. Yeah. You know, like you, I mean, it seems like most people would have. Yeah. But the same time is like, for how long? Like, when did like, when did that like click for and for who? Yeah. I mean, I think Jess was saying or one of them was saying, I was like, wait, where are we? We need to be going over a bridge. And I mean, I just, this would so easily happen to me. Yeah. Like, I got lost. I could see it as well. I've been lost in high school races where I would get too far ahead. And then I would be like, I don't know where I am. Like the, I have no sense of direction. And I saw that course map and it has so many turns. There's no way that I personally could navigate that. But I would never stress about that because I would follow the lead vehicle if I was in the lead, right? I just, I just, I'm so, I don't want to like rage or anything, but I just, I'm so disappointed because this is such a preventable thing, you know, and it just feels like basic steps that should have been taken weren't taken. And I just feel so bad for all the athletes. I feel so bad for the women who are on their way to being top three, but I also feel bad for all the other women who now have this asterisk by their name and the results and people are asking them, are you going to give up your spot and this and that? And I just, yeah, I just feel bad for everyone involved. What do you think in terms of the results? Like if you're in charge, are you saying, like, how do you, what do you do with the results? I mean, you have to let them stand. I think you just have to. If I was Atlanta track club, I would be trying to make up the prize money for those three. I think that's like, that's really all that you can do at this point because they can't select you to the team. Right. The Atlanta track club can't. So like, what I would like to see is them pay Jess, Emma and Edna, like, as if they were top three. And then what I would like to see is that, I mean, all the women filed a protest, they were all denied because there was no, there was no rule that would allow them to change the results. Right. And so what I would like to see is, and this is where it gets really messy, is I would like every woman to pass the spot until those three women have been selected. But it's not so easy as just like everyone in that race, say, no, it becomes other women who are already ranked, who have already done their job. So like, three of the spots were supposed to come from yesterday and a fourth spot is going to come from ranking. So now you have a situation where, so you had to finish in the top, this is kind of technical, but you had to finish in the top five yesterday to grab one of those automatic three spots. And so you have to get all five to pass. And then it does go to ranking, but then there are other women that are ranked higher than some of these women. And they all also have to pass until these three women are on the team. And it's just messy. And in a happy world where we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like that would be amazing if everyone passed and those three got on the team and the next highest ranked person gets to go. That's a lot of work and asking, I mean, maybe there's someone who's like, this is my one chance to be on the US team. It's not my fault that they messed up. It's just so icky and tacky and complicated. And I hate it. I hate it so much. Yeah. I mean, I think if I'm Atlanta Track Club, I'm first going in and being like, I'm going to pound the table with the USATF on behalf of these three women. Like that's my first goal. And I would imagine there are clauses in that like selection process and how it's been set up to make adjustments. And I would want some, I would hope someone at Atlanta Track Club is looking through that with a legal eye and being like, let's find it and help these women. That's our first job. And then second being like, okay, we're going to do this appearance or this money for the prize and like rope it into a peach tree appearance and add on an extra like, hey, we're going to come in here and celebrate you as champions that you didn't get to do on Sunday, but let's prop you up. And if it's at peach tree or maybe setting up something for next year, if that means a smaller prize purse or less appearance for peach tree athletes, it's sort of the thinner fields, like whatever that looks like, that's the next thing I'm doing. But I think if you can figure out a way to make them feel as Rich cannot say at all, which I think is what they're trying to do, but beyond that, like appreciated, they can be the biggest advocates moving forward for your event. Like it's like a customer servicing where like if you can fix this and make them feel loved and appreciated the way they should have felt at the finish line, which it'll never be the same. Right. But if you can get it close and have them say, hey, you know what, these, these folks went above and beyond to make this right. Like that's the biggest stamp for your event. But also you have to go back and fix some of these problems because there's this event, there was the short course last year, there was a peach tree turn thing. So again, we can say like, and from my position, it's like, well, athletes should know the course, but then also who went off the road and then USAGF is like, there's also another larger problem where this has been a thing that's been reoccurring at the event. So you have to sort that. Yeah, I think too, like I, it's easy to dunk on USATF, but I also want them to own part of this too. Like athletes are entrusting them to have everything run smoothly and to have every opportunity to run their best and to make these teams. And I just don't think that they get out, get out of jail free card here. I just feel like, yeah, you selected them, but then like what, what do you own? I mean, I just feel like they should be out making sure everything is up to snuff before they go race a national championship in a spot on an international team. I just, I just think about how much the leaders at USA, USATF are getting paid. And I'm like, these athletes are getting paid, nothing like you're getting paid, but they're the ones out there grinding. And this is a huge opportunity for someone like just to break the tape, these women to emigrates really made the team last year. And then there was no world championship, the world championship got canceled. Here she is a whole year later, refocused, not going to be, not going to be upset about the past. I'm getting myself on this team. And then she's goes the wrong way. I mean, I just cannot even imagine being in her shoes right now. And I just feel like there's, we as athletes have to join USATF and do all this stuff and hand our hand our trust over to them. And then I want them to be ensuring that everything's going to be fair and by the book. Right. So I, I don't know. I just feel like, come on. Do you think we have too many US championships? Like, do you think we expect too much of the local organizing committee? And it's like, Oh, well, they'll do it, they'll do it. And we can have a six K and a four K and a 10 K and a half marathon and a 10 miler and a marathon and, you know, an eight K, like, should they just say, you know what, let's do four really well. Or do you think more opportunities are good, but they might potentially be skimped on or cones might, they might not have enough cones, they might have enough officials in the course or like, what do you think in terms of that? Are we doing too much or is it a separate issue? I don't know. I hadn't thought about that. I mean, there are so many championships. I guess I like that there are so many championships. Like something like this is really special because it's a selection championship. I guess what I want is, okay, you selected Atlanta, that's great, but that doesn't mean you can't, you don't check and make sure. Yeah, you're like, okay, well, we selected you. Good job. Like now you have to pay for everything and put it on and do it perfectly and like they should, but you should also be fucking checking. Like what are you doing? You know, it's like, I don't know. I just, I feel like, I don't know. It's just so frustrating. I just can't believe this happened. I just cannot believe this happened. And I know we all want to point a finger at someone and maybe there isn't an easy answer like that, but that's what's so devastating about it is that we can't redo it. We can't make it perfectly right. And the athletes just have to live with it. And I hate that. I'm like, you know, I saw the CEO of USA Track and Field yesterday shaking hands and signing autographs. And I'm like, you're this morning was a complete fucking disaster. Where's your take on it? What are you going to do to make it right? Get out there and fix it. Right. Get out there. Yeah, go get there, talk to the athletes or invite them to the headquarters. I don't know, but like do something. Yeah. Instead of being like, well, it's not on us. There's nothing in the rules that says we can help it. They fucked up, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I think at the end of it, it's like human error, you know what I mean? And it's just a mistake. It sucks. It's terrible. And I think about it hitting the news and it's like, oh, Bush League, but nothing but other sports. And it's like, how many times is like a shitty playoff call ruin a team season? Right. Like how many times is a bad call at home plate ruin a team season? It's actually more calm than we think and it doesn't make it Bush League. It's just like, how do you make this less likely to happen? And human error is always going to exist. Like we can go through a lot of examples where people have gone off the course. And in fact, again, that's why they have the silly rule for liability reasons and also like enter the course where you went off because people go off course. But we should be working to solve that, right? And yeah, it's frustrating. Yeah. I don't know. I think in a dream world, they would be allotted the prize money. As you mentioned, I think that's a great idea. They come back at a different thing. They're honored in their rightful positions and everyone gives up their spots so they can go. And I just want to say that the women who ended up being in the top three, they were so gracious and they were like, what a shoddy position for them to be in too. And everyone's like, give up your spot. And they're like, I think they're going to, but it's like, that sucks for them too. They didn't do anything wrong. And now it's like, oh, you don't deserve to go. People need to just calm down. I realized you need to calm down. You're being way too loud. Give it a few days. I was talking to this person and they said that the protest had been denied and that this person believed that now lawsuits would come. And I think this is one of those situations that's worthy of that. I mean, I would be pissed if that was me. I'm hoping that there can be a solution where they still get to go to the world championships and they get their prize money and it doesn't have to get uglier than it is. And unfortunately, I think it's just going to take some time to figure that out. Who knows? This pod comes out in two days and maybe it'll be sorted by then, but I kind of doubt it. Right. And I guess as the thing is, I think it's a lot to sift through and I think it's easy to knee-jerk, be like, fix it. And it's like, hold on, we have to pump the brakes and it's not point at who, who and who and this is their fault. And I think there can be adjustments made and some solves, obviously the moment that's gone. But yeah, I think people, there's always nuance, you know? And it's like, it's just going to take a little while for the dust to settle. But I would love to like revisit it at that point instead of just being like, let's burn it down. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I don't know, maybe we'll wait a week or two and it won't be resolved. And we'll be like, great, let's burn it down. But in the meantime, I also think the athletes who, you know, finished in those top spots, like, don't, it's not their fault. It's not their fault. It's not their fault. Like, stolen victory. No, absolutely not. So like that stuff gets me fired up where I'm like, yeah, it's not somebody's, it's somebody's fault, but I don't think it was malicious. No. And that's, that's, see, that's what sucks is about like, like the woman that actually ended up winning was like, born, right? Her last name is born. Yeah. She was like, I'm like, why is the tape there? She thought she was in for it. And then everyone's just asking her immediately, are you going to give up your spot? You know, and it's like, she didn't do anything wrong. You know, I do think Chris dropped in the notes here that there should be a rule change. I absolutely agree. And, and this is a lesson for every race moving forward. If you're, if they're not following the press strike, then you better let them know. Like Boston is very clear. It's going to be there. It's going to be there. And then you're going to turn on the boils since street and it's not going to be there anymore. They tell you that at the technical meeting in New York, you know, they pull off also in another area before the finish. And they tell you that at the technical meeting. And this needs to be spelled out because I know my, I know me, and I would have definitely gone the wrong way yesterday. And I would have been so upset about it. And if you're going to be peeling off or they have to know the course, then they better fucking know that they have to know the course. Right. Yeah. I mean, I guess from a rule perspective, what would, what would you change? I mean, I would love to just see a rule that states there has to be a lead vehicle or a lead bike with the leaders the entire time that's going the right way. Yeah. Like there's, I just believe there should be someone even for safety reasons, there should be someone alongside the athletes, whether it's on a bike or a car in front. And if they go the wrong way, what's the, what's the rule? Well, then yeah, I mean, we're just fucked because that's what happened. But right now, I guess I'm just saying right now, like some people are saying, well, they still needed to know the course technically. And I just feel like there, I don't like athlete ownership in this situation. I just don't. I just think like maybe that should be a new rule of, okay, Chris is ready again, but maybe that should be a new rule where there's definitely a lead biker with you though. I mean, that's pretty standard. Chris wrote, or what happens if an official leads runners off the course, then what's the next step? I think the race ends there and positions are locked. I mean, that's a good suggestion. But I mean, yes, the race of your life, you're, you're, you're 26th, you're on PR pace, you're going to hit that bonus. I think there's a lot more people behind you that would throw you through the lawsuit at you. I think this is, yeah, right. My point is it's complex. Like, yeah, I, in one way or another, someone's like, wait, why did my race get ruined? Right. And again, I, I think this goes into the before the race stuff, like they're practicing the drive. There's an official that's out there that's going along the course, making sure it is obviously marked. We don't have a budget problem with cones. We can get more cones, you know, like making sure that this thing is slick and nobody can go the wrong way. I feel like this is stuff that should be added to the rules for before the race. Like there's going to be officials out there checking this before it goes off that morning, 30, you know, 30 minutes, 60 minutes. I don't care how many minutes ahead of time. Yeah. I mean, it's, it could be as simple as like, if you host a championship, there needs to be X amount of barriers at this, at every single turn, right? So you want 30 turns is how many barriers you have to have. Yeah. Like it not even cones, if they get moved, that's a problem. Like it has to be designed in this format or else you're not hosting. Right. But again, that's like, I feel like that's USATF passing the buck being like, hey, it's going to cost an extra $60,000 to host this race. Sorry about your prize money. So, yep. But, you know, I mean, then just the race entry goes up. I don't know. My point is like, I get that it's, it's complex. And I think that, you know, shit happens, it sucks when it does, it sucks that it happened to really great people. I'm fascinated to see how they, how they correct this, like fix the problem for the athletes now, but also, you know, what do you do for the future? And I would love to see, drop some, drop some comments and give it some ideas. Anything else, anything else you would wrestle with here? Like what else are you doing to make this better? Make sure this doesn't happen again. Are we getting Waymo's and punching in the course map ahead of time? Yeah. I mean, people were talking about that. Like is there an AI option? Is there like, how do you take human error out of the equation when it comes to racing? Yeah. I just think it all comes down to the prep and it, and if it happens, I don't know. I just, I still actually can't believe it happened. I'm not going to lie because the men were fine. There's no kerfuffle there. And I know that this stuff does happen and, but on this scale, it doesn't usually happen. Right. This level of importance with so much on the line. Yeah. Okay. Well, that was happy. I mean, I think it's just, it's just messy. It's super messy. Yeah. And I, like, I guess I just go back to Atlanta Track Club having done a lot for the sport. And again, it's like, I don't think they were trying to fuck anybody over. Of course they weren't. Nobody feels worse. But I agree. It's also like, how, like, why does this happen again? Right. I don't think I agree with you. They were, there was no intent for this to happen, but it did. And so now it's like, okay, we can't go back. Like there was people being like, just race it again in a month. I'm like, that's impossible. Yeah. Like, there's like, there's the New York City half in a couple of weeks. It's like, these people turned on appearance money, 100% chance they're like deciding between Atlanta and New York City. I want to make a world team. I'll give up the appearance money. This is like, I'm gonna work on this court. Like there's all a lot of decisions. Like, her got turned on a chance to run at the world military games, you know, to run this because she wanted to represent the U.S. at the World Half Marathon champs instead. So there's like, it's so complicated who made this choice to race here and why, and you can't just go run it again. And this is like, this makes me feel like when we talk about stuff with doping, like there's, you can never go back. You can just try to make it as good as right now. And then you do your best to make sure it never happens in the future. And I would like to see USA, USA, take a little ownership on that and like say, here's what we're going to do in the future to make sure this doesn't ever happen again. And I'm going to hold my breath because I want it to happen. I pass out. It's brave. But I just, there are governing body. We have the trust of our careers. We signed a million documents so we can run for them. They have ownership to our images, to everything. Then we should be, when we're running a half marathon, it should be the hell marked and we should know where we're going. And that's, you know, like you can pass the buck. Yeah, someone made a mistake and it is what it is. But like, you need to take some ownership on what happens in the future so that this never happens again. I'm trying, I'm just thinking about this like spot in the course where it was like a very clear straight for some reason. And I was, I wondered about this with the tech meeting. It like, did it get too congested and someone turned or, you know what I mean? Is it like, do you think that anything like this, if you close it in so much, does it start to impact race coverage of the women's race? If you're in like a combined field, combined start? I don't know. Just like my mind's turning of all the different things really. So then you have to separate it, men's, women's or maybe women's first, men's first. Like, does TV coverage get a little bit trickier? I don't know. Anyhow. I don't even know. Did they write mass start together? That's, I don't, I'm actually not sure. I bet you the men went first because it, yeah. I don't know. I didn't know. Yeah. Start. Okay. I was running around Disney. You were winning a half. Yeah. You were in your own race. I was very thankful for my bike man who knew all the turns because, as you said, I wouldn't have done that course. Oh yeah. The first half marathon I ran, I ran Great North Run. I had no idea where I was. And then I ended up finding myself in the lead and there's a guy biking with me and I'm like asking him, how much further? And he was like two kilometers. I was like in miles, like I'm dying, you know, but like I would never have been able to figure that out. And maybe if that's going to become something that the athlete has to take responsibility for, then they need to know. They need to know you are responsible for finding your way around this course. I feel like that's pretty well expressed. See, I don't. I feel like every tech meeting, I just remember watching the TCS New York City Red Run's map where they get turned by turn. And Sam has these jokes that he used every year. And it's like, and then you're going to make it right on Flatbush. And then you're going to run by the garden where the Knicks leaves the championship. And then you're going to run up to the library where they have the longest row of books. There's actually 2.1 mile of books in this library. And like they go through it. But you would never expect the leaders of the New York City Marathon to be figuring your way out. That's because they start people before the rest of the field, things break up, and then there is some responsibility. But the people winning aren't worrying about it. Well, there should just be barriers. I mean, like it needs to be very clear. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously it's not clear if the cameraman's going off. Like it's just not right. Right. Like why, you know. I mean, honestly, that makes me worry about their safety. Well, that's a whole nother issue. Like people are driving into goreuses. Right. Yeah. So, all right. Well, lock it down. Yeah. Lock it down. Do the right thing by these women. Yeah. They have handled it so well. I mean, immediately, I saw footage of them immediately after and they're like, we went the wrong way. Like what just like, I had dreams about that still where I go the wrong way. And so it's like, it's like literally a nightmare you're living. I mean, I cannot even imagine when Jess realized she's think she's on her way to winning her first national title. The press car is in front of her. And like that's a literal nightmare. Where all of a sudden you're like, wait a minute, I am not on the course. Where the hell am I? I'm running in peanut butter. I can't tell my shoe. Yeah. No, I've had that. Like I can't even fathom being like, okay, well, I just need to flip around and get back in this race like terrible. Yeah. So basically, I've just complained and I haven't offered any real tangible solutions. But I mean, I just I think that that's completely fair because I think it's a really hard thing to solve. Like it sounds so simple. It puts a fucking cones up. Have a person there. It's like, yeah. But there's probably more to it, right? And I don't doubt Atlanta Track Club is going through all of those scenarios and being like, shit, how do we solve this? Like, how did we drop the ball on this? It seems so simple. It's not. Right. Like it's actually, like, it's where this is what we do. We organize races year round. And we fucked it up. Right. Like how and then how do we get better? Yeah. Yeah, I think it's it's very easy to be annoyed. Like I fully agree with that. Yeah. I mean, I know. That's our take period. I don't know where else to go. Right. I think we've gone in circles around it. We're frustrated. Everyone's frustrated. Yeah. Let's try and be better. Let's try and be better. Okay. Let's do a top five because we need some happy stuff. We should absolutely do a top five. Yeah. Okay. Do you want to start it out or you want me to? I can start it. I was going to say, but maybe this will be a joint one of ours. Casey Klinger ran in the Tokyo marathon. He was the top American finisher. He lowered his PR to 208 something 45ish. Yeah. So big step in the right direction for him. He debuted in Chicago. It didn't go great. But he ran great. And I think it fell apart a little bit the last 2K. But I think he was going to run 207 and kind of fell apart, but still a huge step in the right direction. And I step forward. Yeah. Yeah. It's exciting to see. We talked about it last week. American men are stepping it up and it's really cool to see. Yeah. I think it's great run by Casey. I think he'll have more jumps in the future as well. So I'm going to see him sort of chip away at it. All right. Good one. That was on my list. Sorry. Okay. I'm going to go with my brother and sister-in-law Brad and Chiara, who are friends of the pod. And they listened. And the other day I called out Brad during our hot ones challenge at Christmas time. I said he came in cocky and then he got humbled and they were dying laughing. They were like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you did that. But they're in town. They're visiting us here in Florida and he, Brad fixed my mic. He came in with an open mind and a positive attitude. And he twisted and shook and got new cables and fixed the box. And then he did this really funny test intro on GarageBand of the Nobody Asked Us intro. He was like, oh, I'm going to save that. We're going to plug that in one day. Nice. But I deleted it out of respect. So the friends of the pod, Brad and Chiara. Well, thank you, Brad. Everyone's going to be so happy about the sound. That's awesome. Maybe. I'm going to actually mention a different pod for one, which is on the Alley on the Run pod, she had Paul Swangard on really recently. And I love Paul. I love working with Paul. And it was cool to see him highlighted because I think sometimes when you're in that role, you know, he doesn't get a lot of love, but he, it was a great pod. It was super interesting. I learned a bunch about him that I didn't know. And so if you have time after you're listening to this pod, of course, you should listen to the Alley on the Run pod with Paul Swangard. And this is his birthday today. So a happy birthday, Paul. Happy birthday, Paul. Awesome. That's a good one. All right. I'm going to go with my buddy who I coach, my one athlete. He trains in Dubai. And he messaged me on Sunday and he was like, I don't think I can get my long run in. We're getting a lot of messages to stay inside because there are missiles. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, I don't do your long run. And I like see a straw ball the time I know where he's at. And I was like, holy fuck, like, this guy might be dead. I don't know. Because he's very close to some of these things that you're seeing on the internet. But he texted me today and he sent me his long run. He was like, so sick of being inside, got this done like, fuck yeah. And I was like, dude, you get the most dedicated award. Wow. Cheers to him. But also stay safe out there. Yeah, wow, that's scary. Yeah, little perspective. Yeah, wrong turns and right timing. Yeah. So also, I'll say that that's definitely been on my mind in terms of a perspective of where I'm out with things. So yeah, that's good. I mean, not good, but I get it. Yeah. Okay, I will just close it out by just shouting out the US 3K teams again, 3000 meter teams for indoor world champs. I'm really excited that we have the best in the country representing them. I really think that Emily McKay and LA St. Pierre have really good chances of meddling. I think that Yard and Goose and Cole Hocker do too. And it's just exciting. I wish I was on the call now, because I think they both the men and the women have a really good chance of winning and even bringing home two medals in each event. So good teams. It was fun to watch them race and I just wish you guys the best of luck. That's awesome. I was going to give me one sec because I'm going to see if can we plug in a sixth today? Yeah, of course. Okay, I mean, I could do seven because it was such a crazy weekend, but give me one second. I want to pull up. I want to pull up the men's results of the half. Oh, yeah. Because I feel like it got lost in the shuffle. It got lost in the shuffle and we talk about the news that goes out and I should have maybe we can trim this. Wesley Kiptew won the men's race in 6115 over Hillary war 6130 and Ahmed Muhammad 6151 with Charles Hicks coming in 6210. So pretty great racing up front. And yeah, I mean, hat tip to the women who should have been top three hat tip to the women who wore top three, but also cheers for the men. Yeah, no kidding. Good racing and it kind of got buried. It did get buried in this pod. Top six. Okay, good. Oh, man. And that's a wrap.