Jared Allen on the Hall of Fame, Sacking Matt Leinart, the REAL Sack Record, The Art of the Pass Rush and more!

So no joke, Sean Payton, a couple of years ago, we were on spring break. We were like, hey, you want to come coach in Denver? Be our pastor's guy. And I was like, what hours are we talking about? Yeah, I like my life. I like my life. And dudes are there till like 10, 11 o'clock at night. I was like, my kids, you know, I put my kids to bed. My wife's like, we've never had a babysitter or anything. We're not hiring them now. Like, what? No, we're not having other people drive our kids to sporting events because you're working until midnight. all right welcome to another episode of throwbacks everybody please don't forget yeah don't forget give us a follow on all socials at throwback show on the youtube like and subscribe at this throwback show there too and i hope you're not i hope everyone's brokering out your football coverage just yet because we got a good episode for you to don't go in too big on the super bowl stuff you got a long way to go still till we get to that game we do it's well it is a long way to go but then football's got to be over before you know it dude then what are we going to talk about we're going to talk about your new york knicks and how sad you're going to have to watch basketball jerry just real quick man we got to get this out there and you know it's been a journey for you about a year ago um we talked about you and i off air the thought of the prospects of both of us having another kid another baby my daughter is about to be one years old which is crazy um and for months and months and months you just you you were you were in your corner dude you were ducking you're diving you were jabbing you were keeping brie away you're like i don't want to do it i don't want to do it but here we are now the final week could happen any point dude could happen right now as we record this episode. That's true. You're having another baby, which is the greatest gift of all time, and it's so exciting. You're going to give your two boys a little brother or a little sister. My question to you, and we usually ask all our guests, like prep and game day, this final week, day, minute of prep, what are you like and what are you doing personally to prepare for a third child? Well, first off, I want to just say, Matt, as I look right into the camera, you had a lot to do with this. You were just telling me, just do it. It's awesome. Do it. It's great. Do it. It is awesome. And it is. Let's just say when Bree and I talked this out, if you remember those early Mike Tyson fights, the guy he was always fighting in the beginning tried to look confident. And once he got one shot from Tyson, you'd see him panic. That's how my conversations went with Bree. I was confident and holding my ground until I got punched in the face. and then i just was like all right whatever you want um all kidding aside i am very excited it has been very cool for this one to for this third time to not know if it's a boy or a girl we knew it was a boy for both so that is definitely added to this experience of i can't just wait i can't wait to see this kid you know boy girl i can't wait uh i do have moments of excitement and i have moments of terror terror when people start asking me stuff i'm now getting invited to things in like March like hey you want to go play Shadow Creek or you want to go do this I'm like I don't March I don't know that was supposed to be the compromise getting into this you were supposed to be allowed to do whatever ever you really wanted to do it which she knew the whole entire time was a loaded she was just like I'm a looper man and then once she once he sees that kid it's over so I am very excited I've we're now it's like any day so like I'm all over her everything she says like you okay is it happening but then like when we get to like nine o'clock at night i'm like maybe it don't happen tonight i'm really tired right now i don't want to wake up at one of the morning like it's time to go and she has to birth a child i'm over here complaining i'm gonna lose sleep but um she's the best rest too she's a trooper though and the boys our two boys are really fired up you know uh we've been talking a lot to them about what it's gonna go on and not try to make it sound like hey all of this is going to change because of this baby right because we're trying to make it like enhance how everything is going to be because of this baby so uh yeah man i'm ready best of luck dude the next time we do our show hopefully you would think you would think it's coming man and uh my guess is it's a it's a baby girl okay you are your two boys and the girl probably one of your boys is probably going to be pissed and the other one's probably going to love that's how mine was pretty funny and then they will switch but i told you two off the air like if we have a third boy i'm just going to put mats in the basin and build an octagon we're going to be a full mma family yeah if it's a girl i think i'm going to become a gun nut and just yeah i'm gonna have a hurt locker in my room like what do you want to do well we'll be thinking about we'll be thinking about more probably we'll be thinking about brie as she gets through this and you guys but man it's gonna be awesome dude yeah it is humbling when like you start thinking about yeah i'm saying you you think about everything that the mom does and you're like wow i'm really just a useless piece of art yeah it's like you're doing like a herculean thing and i'm over here just like we're just sitting there like you're doing a great job so um well it's gonna be awesome dude yeah so we do have a good one for you today again you're gonna get lots of super bowl content And we're going to talk a little about the Super Bowl with Annie Agar in our Twisted T spot coming up later. But we decided to continue the pass rushing onslaught. We hit you with Von Miller last week. One of the best pass rushers of all time. Just had nine sacks. This week, we're hitting you with an absolute legend. Matt, you want to say who it is? Hall of Famer Jared Allen. Jared Allen. Here's what I will say previewing this episode. First of all, if you're interested about pass rushing, you're going to be pleased. But secondly, if you're a young player, a young coach, an old coach, your kid loves it. He goes on a 10 to 15 minute. I got chills just thinking about it. Yeah. About the art of the pass rush that should be memorialized in the Hall of Fame because he just broke it down. And I was blown away. Well, Von Miller said something last week, but it was totally a different approach that he takes because he was a different player than Jared Allen. Jared Allen was your traditional 6'5", 6'6", 260, hand in the dirt and just go off the edge. And this 10-minute just artistry of breaking down what he looked for in film and how he attacked tackles and what made him successful, and I'll give a little tease. What made him successful wasn't necessarily the talent, but it was understanding situational football. And Vaughn said the same thing. So for all the young guys out there, this is one of those you got to listen to. He's fantastic. I mean, the dude is a world-class curling player now, which is unbelievable. So you go from freaking a Hall of Fame D lineman to now in curling. But he's incredible. So much wisdom. Such a great dude. My first ever start, he tells a great story. I'll let you guys have to listen to it. But he tells this great story about how he got me. He got you. When I played for the Arizona. I didn't remember he got me, but he got me when I played for the Cardinals. So, yeah, man, Jared Allen, this is fantastic, dude. It was awesome, awesome to get him on throwbacks. All right. Well, I guess without further ado, number 69, Jared Allen. Okay, our guest today is a Hall of Famer, a four-time first-team All-Pro, Five-time pro bowler, two-time sack leader, holds the record for most career safety and safety in the season. And he should hold the record for most sacks. We're going to talk about that for sure. And now he's a world-class curler. We're definitely going to talk to that. Just mind-blowing, by the way. Jared Allen, welcome to the show, my guy. Rob, thanks for having me. Big fan of both you guys. So this is an honor. What's up, dude? How you doing, man? How does it feel to be a Hall of Famer? You know what? it's cool. And then you go back to being dad and Uber driver and all the fun stuff. Well, Uber driver, he was paid. So, you know, whatever you want to call it. So, yeah, no, it was a great moment. It was it was a cool deal. The process is a little frustrating. You were lost because, you know, I was the first ballot finalist with Peyton and all those guys. And you just think, OK, maybe I don't get in first ballot. And next year I'm sure shooing. Right. And then you don't know, because that's the problem with the process. You don't know what the metrics are. You don't know. You're just like, okay. Yeah. Then, you know, Eric Allen, you know, we were talking about it, this, you know, because he was in my class. Right. And he was like, the hardest thing about it is, is you start getting competitive with guys that you like really like. And, you know, you're like, I'm super fan of these. But then you're like comparing, like, am I better than this guy? Is that you're like, why am I going down this road? And you're like competitive on mine and you're trying to figure out, you know, how you can better yourself to possibly get in the next year. But then you're like, there's nothing I can do about this. You know, I played 10 years ago. um so yeah it's uh it was an interesting process but you know once once you get in uh you know uh chris carter told me he's like gary he's like once you get in it doesn't matter how long it took he's like no one ever asked it goes away all the animosity seems to fade or the frustration seems to fade and he's right the weekend was fantastic uh couldn't ask for a better class guys couldn't couldn't have asked for a better experience they like 195 guys come back and the hall did a great job taking care of the family and stuff so it was it was a good deal um and now yeah now you go about your business like normal yeah i can only imagine i was on a flight one time it's a little bit of a name drop but i was on a flight with michael strahan after he was already in and he gave me like the voting she's like take a look at this he's like how are you supposed to pick between these guys and you look at the names it's like it's as impossible to you can't litigate it like well it's just all unbelievable stats and unbelievable players so yeah i get what you mean like who the heck knows what they're voting on year to year and that and that's the tough part right so you're sitting in a room and then you don't know who has influence who doesn't uh you know there's certain presenters hold way more weight in the room than other guys uh then you have you have stories where guys will be eligible for many years and they jump in and they're in and you're like well what like you know so you know my way i looked at i was always mad with the year i didn't get there like are you upset i'm like i'm upset because they they made me upset for like three days right for you know 52 weeks or 51 weeks out of the year i didn't think about it then you get up to that week of uh selection and then you're like all of a sudden care and i'm like well dog's still gonna go crap in the yard i got chores to do so let's get back to work um but uh yeah but it's definitely it's one of those things and and you get there the best part about me for was you know i got you know mean joe green i was sitting there talking to me and he knows my name i'm like fanboying out like this is the coolest thing ever um sitting and talking to some of the old guys widows who still show up and hearing the stories from you know from from a family's perspective about these guys that we know we all watched growing up as kids um it was a great thing and then just like i said that that camaraderie getting to see like you're you're just you know i'm sitting there having lunch with steve larkin you know what i mean like so cool what is that ever gonna happen so that's what i took of it and um and it was it was great and you know you really do you realize the importance in the early uh just how it's special and it's important to continue to give back and go see those guys because there you go i might i will say the hall of famers being there that Friday night, you know, kind of a gold jacket dinner where you kind of do this gauntlet, right? If no one shows up, then it's not as nearly as impactful. But you know, when all the guys come back, it was a pretty special deal. I was, I was, I did not, I did not make the NFL hall of fame, but I was fortunate enough to make the college. But the same point, I remember being in the back room and I, and Peyton, Peyton was in our class and Marshall Falk is really awesome. But the person that I was most excited to meet was Kirk Gibson, old Dodger. Great. So, yeah, it was like I'll tear up thinking about it because Jerry knows this. I'm a lifelong Dodger fan, born and raised my dad. And we're sitting in the back room. And Kurt was an All-American receiver at Michigan State. So not a lot of people knew that. Obviously, he played baseball, too, and went on to play MLB. But we're sitting back there and I'm watching my dad like talk to Kirk Gibson, the 1988 home run. Like it's, it's like one of those few sports memories where I remember I was, I was five years old and like the three of us. So like, I can feel that with you. It's like, you're, you're in this room with just absolute legends, man. And like Kirk Gibson was that for me, it was such a cool experience. I can imagine sitting in that room. And that college football hall of fame was hard to get into. I, you know, every time I see the class, sometimes I'm like, that guy's not in there yet. Yeah. Again, I don't know the voting process either, but, um, but no, that's a cool thing. And I think that's what true, like, you know, competitors that compete, guys that compete at the highest level, right? You know, anybody that ever says they came out, like, their goal was to be in the Hall of Fame is full of it. Your goal is just to be the best, right? So every year, I'm just trying to outdo the year before that. I'm just trying to be the best, help my team be the best. And, you know, the byproduct of that is, you know, maybe one day you're good enough to be in the Hall of Fame. But I think, you know, more and more I talked to, it's those moments that everybody remembers, right? It's not the ceremony. It's not the gold jacket. It's not the ring. It's not the honor. It's not that my name's, you know, you know, they talk about, oh, you're, you're in football heaven or immortality. It's the fact that I get to go back and have conversations with, with God. I mean, we were, and then we were just at one of the receptions and my dad's in there, him and Jim Kelly are like, you know, best buds. I'm like, oh, poor Jim. My dad is wearing this dude out. Wow. And then, you know, they're just back and forth. I grew up, you know, we were from Northern California. I grew up a Raiders and Bills fan. Right. So I don't know why it was Bills, but they were awesome. Steve Tasker is like my favorite player ever. And, uh. A little Don Beebe. reaction a little don beady bounced off his head like they were so good it's still like i'm like talking to jim kelly and we're just i'm like this is fantastic oh man we were uh jerry so jerry and i were talking before you came on and i'm like i haven't seen you i mean obviously i always respected you were a hell of a player and um watched your career and i was like i think jerry was like did jared allen ever sack you i'm like honestly dude like i can't remember but my first ever start which by the way you did you got me because he just looked up we have the data if you're interested and i was like my first ever start was against the chiefs at home and that was like kind of the start and then and then we had like the monday night game um the denny green game the following week where we lost to urlack and those guys and they made that epic run what do you uh i don't remember much from that game other than like we we all we kicked a field goal to tie at the end so yeah that was i was telling you guys i had a uh story about interception you threw right so that game was crazy so we uh you had big leonard brown i believe leonard brown yeah yeah uh playing left tackle yeah 400 pounds dude and i'm like oh my gosh and i'll think with leonard i mean when the dude was that big and that strong i was like he's a much better guard it was uh leonard davis leonard davis sorry yeah no yeah leonard davis and he was a one of the nicest human beings ever yeah and uh but i mean i was like and i remember you guys kicked him out the tackle i mean he played guard i think of dallas i can't remember how it went from tackle to guard but At one point, he's a guard. I'm like, thank goodness he's in there. But he came out there, and I'm like, getting this dude. Damn, I'm getting him. But he kept landing on me just. I was turning the corner. I'd be right at Matt's feet, and he'd just land on me. My ribs hurt for two weeks afterwards. I was like, I can't breathe. I did hit him with an inside move and sag Matt in that game. But we were down 21. We were down 21-14, I believe. And so we're sitting in the huddle, and Ty Law just looks around. He's like, all right, Jay, how are you doing up there? I was like, man, I'm getting to him. He's going to hit the right. And then he looks at Greg West. He goes, hey, G, cover me deep. He goes, by the way, guys, I'm picking this ball off right now. Called his shot. This dude took one shuffle back, sat on an out wrap. Right. And he just. I remember. And then we came back, tied the game. We got a score, tied the game. I believe it. I'm not sure if we won that. I don't remember. You guys won. You guys won. Okay. Yeah. But I was like, this dude, he just called that. He was like, I'm going to pick this ball off. He just said, all right. Hey, we know we need to turn over. I'm going to take the ball right now. It would have been nice to know that shit. Was that your first read, Matt? Was that your first read? I just remember – I don't – I don't remember. I remember throwing it up the right – yeah, it was like it was to the right. And Ty's a Hall of Famer. I mean, Ty was just so smart. Yeah, he's so savvy. He was so smart. And that was late in the game too. And then we did – we went on a drive at the end. You guys were up. I think you won by three. You were up, and then we missed a field goal to Ty. But, yeah, I was like, this dude just called it. and I mean, he knew he, I mean, we were in the huddle. So it wasn't like he saw the formation and was like, Oh, there's a good chance of running an out route. He was in the huddle. And he, his word verbatim was like, all right, you guys make sure you get as much pressure as possible. Safety's taking me over the top. I'm sitting on this out route. I'm picking this ball off right now. Did you, did you have a, did you, so, so my, I was, you always have like the welcome to the league moment, right? Mine was really probably the next week when Urlacher just blasted. I mean, you remember Urlacher was just, they ran a lot of cover too. He was in the middle. He was 6'4". They gave you a zero look every single time. I know. They went to the Super Bowl that year. They lost to Peyton. And I just remember him just blasting me, dude. And I was just like, I almost broke my wrist. I'm like, shit. You were 0-4, right? Yeah, I was 0-4. Did you have a moment like that where there was a tackle or just someone just crushing you? That's what I was talking about in my Hall of Fame speech, dude. So my rookie year, I had the pleasure and displeasure of practicing every day against Willie Rofe. which, you know, again, Leonard Davis was about 385. I think they had him listed, pushing 400. Yeah, Willie was big. Willie was right in that same range. But, I mean, and then the dude had feet, sneakily could move, and just was a monster. So we're doing a little half-line drill. And when I smacked Willie right underneath the chin, I locked him out. G. West came down. I mean, murdered Priest Holmes in the hole, right? Defense is, like, loving it. Coach Vermeule was pissed. that's the ticket to the super bowl dog cusses the offense and so you know that time so casey was our center brian waters who's in the key you know chief's ring of honor uh perennial pro bowler all pro guy and then uh you know then uh you know uh big old uh willie roe hall of famer so he's like you got to do it again so i'm like oh and this time so i you know i was i played my first couple years around like 275 280 they made me big part slim down like 255 and so i hit william again bam i locked them out all of a sudden i'm going backwards and i can i'm like on my tippy toes my feet are dang near off the ground he just lifted me up ran with me for like five yards dumped me on my head another tried to get up speared me in the back and i was just like stay down oh crap like there's there's levels to this game and you're a big dude right this guy still kicked my ass um and so that moment forth i was like I'm going to make him my best friend. I asked Willie. I mean, I'm like, if I can figure out how to beat Willie Rove, I'll have a long career in this league. And so that's what I did. I just, I was like, picked his brain about everything, how to beat him out of this. But yeah, that was my moment. And it was like, okay, well, that's, that's the, uh, I got a lot of work to do. I'm right about here right now. So I want to ask you something about that run with the chiefs, because also I'm, I'm a huge gamer, right? You were my guy and mad in that season with the chiefs. And I still can't believe like the you don't really see, especially back then, like there was never tons of NFL trades of like big names. And the year you got traded to the Vikings you I think you tied for the lead in sacks or you had the lead in sacks Like like I said you were my guy in Madden So that the trade for me I remember because that happens in basketball and baseball all the time In the NFL rarely That was the first, like, shocking NFL trade to me. I just couldn't believe that. You and me both. That's what I'm saying. Were you as – well, I'm not trying to, like, make you relive that because then you went on with the Vikings and it was an unbelievable run. It was crazy. So, you know, I got – I never understood it. I got in trouble my third year, right, in obviously preseason and, you know, got a DUI. So, you know, was dealing with that. But, you know, so I went to them. And the part that was frustrating about that was so I was only on a three-year deal. Back then, you know, Matt was probably on a four-year, you know, first-round pick quarterback or maybe a five. But back then, he was like, you know, I'm fourth-round pick. So I'm three-year trying to get, you know, free agency as fast as possible. So they had tendered me, right? So after that third year, which would have been, I guess, been in 06 season, you know, got out of trouble. But anyway, so I came to my office and said, hey, let me let me prove to you guys that I was just a dumb kid making dumb mistakes. Right. You did it. Did all the class, did everything. Ate the suspension, you know, you know, was in the program for two years. Didn't have a sip of alcohol for two years. You know, just like, hey, listen, I was young, dumb, immature. Let's let's let's move on. So we're all good and good. And so but so they you know, so I signed my tender, you know, that year. they've hit me with a first and third round tender and uh so but i told him i was like if you guys try to franchise me like we're gonna have problems right yeah and so no joke i mean and i and dwight ferrini i we you know every defensive end owes dwight ferrini the world uh so we gave them i gave we gave them an offer you know at that time you know it was like a seven you know apy number because i think it would have made me like the fifth highest paid defensive end in the league i mean because i mean jason taylor at the time was only making like eight million a year right and uh so i'll never forget it was a it was a uh six year 42 million dollar contract we put in front of them and i'm in my mic this is the most money i've ever seen in my life yeah yeah on a freaking ranch and i was poor uh so um and they're like no not happening and they started like oh you know he's at risk this that and they franchised me and i was like oh i'm like so everything you know now they're trying now they're just you know doing the whole media thing playing things and we were supposed to be on a conference call with uh with carl peterson and you know we're sitting me and my agent sitting on the phone with uh denny thume he was the assistant gmail at the time like 20 minutes later he's like oh carl jumped on a plane and got and he's out of the country now i'm like you guys scheduled this call like we didn't schedule this call so i just called and i was called clark straight up and i was like hey um you know what i just think you know my time here is run that run its course uh i need to go somewhere that believes in me obviously and you know so here's your options you can rent me for two years for 20 million i'll pull my hamstring week six, both years, then we can go that route. And so they agreed to let me try to trade to Tampa. And obviously, they had to agree to it because I was restricted, right? And so then Minnesota jumped in, and that was it. They had to give up all the picks and stuff like that. But yeah, it was one of those things. We had to work hard behind the scenes to try to make it happen. And I was under the impression like, oh, there's no way. But during that time span, Dwight Freeney signs this massive deal, right, becoming the highest defensive player ever and we're all looking at our stats and i'm like yep that's market value we got market value baby but uh you did and then every you know and then obviously the floodgates opened after that but um it was what it was a crazy time man it was one of those things right because coming from college as you know matt like you're back then still still you're playing for loyalty right you know i mean i'm an idaho state kid so we're playing for championships we're playing for our teammates it's still like north dallas 40 you're just out there you're the biggest meat sticks you know just we're just playing ball to play ball and all of a sudden we had this just smack in the face of what the business side of football is and man it was it was tough man you got you sit in these rooms and you get beat down you people telling me they want to sign you and pay you all this money but then also telling you all your faults because their job is to get you at the lowest possible rate right and you're like i'm sitting right here people i'm in the room and i'm in the room and so it was it was nuts and um and i you know i didn't know if i was gonna go to minnesota because they were trying to force the trade to Tampa, but then, you know, we knew Gruden was probably out of there soon. So yeah, it was, it was crazy. And then, like you said, you just didn't see that happen for Minnesota to give up that many picks and the salary at the same time. I mean, now it happens, you know, quite often. When you go back to Idaho state and you were obviously great there. And, and now you talk about the business now with NIL and college, which I'm sure you, it's just, it's wild, you know, me covering college football. I just see it all the time. Hypothetically, you go back to your days there like like would you you would you have chased money if someone threw a lot of money at you one of the bigger schools you can talk about loyalty commitment but i think that's like yeah for sure i've been gone yeah i mean i mean come on really and you got kids not because the nfl especially knowing what you know now you don't get nfl doesn't care about loyalty you know i actually had a phone call with a uh with a parent of a kid uh that's in one double a and asking about that well they want to be loyal to a kid i'm like why they're going to use that against you They're going to use small schools against you. They're going to say, oh, why didn't you go and try to make a mark at a bigger school? I mean, let's be honest, because football is not guaranteed. So, you know, getting paid in football is not guaranteed. So if someone's going to put a million bucks in your pocket as a young kid, hopefully you're smart enough to, you know, to not just blow it. But I'm glad I would have been dead. I get asked all the time and I'm thinking like, shit, I don't know if I really wanted to make money at that point because that would have changed everything. I was making $436 a month on the stipend check. And I thought I was wealthy. You know what I mean? And we were living out of control on that. Dude, I was telling you guys before, I just moved my son into college. And they're getting paid now. Like, they're getting rev share, which is guaranteed money every month. They get some NIL. They have a shot to make real money. But I'm telling him, I said, listen, dude, I lived off a card and training table. And like when I spent money on like, like I would check like, oh, I got $200 in my bank account. Let's go get like a T-shirt at like Lawson's, all that. Like we were living the dream, dude. Now he's like, well, dad, I'm only making. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not, no. You're going to live off that little credit card. You're going to go to freaking Chipotle and all the places that you can eat for free all week. Cause that's how we did it, man. But yeah, it's just a different world. I was jealous. Cause you guys, the big schools had training table. We didn't have training table. So we had to choose, we either had to choose our stipend, right? Or live on campus where you got to go to the cafeteria on your meal card, right? But you couldn't have both. So if you lived off campus, so my 436, so no joke, my 436 was my freshman year. So I had to live in the dorm for freshman year, so my sophomore year. I got 520 by my senior year. I was like, oh, this is 80 buck increase. Eating good, baby, eating good. But again, we had to pay rent and feed ourselves. Yeah, that's wild, man. Yeah, we had no, dude. there i was i was under the problem like you know what because i had committed to university of washington and all that stuff i thought i was going you know pack 12 at the time back then right and uh and i'm like well idaho state is gonna be great this is gonna be big fish small pond it's gonna be just you know football central now i couldn't have been more wrong out there you have to go to school sir but you know we could have been teammates because my sophomore year coach Trooper Ressa left Idaho state and went to USC and became the old line coach there. And so they offered me a scholarship and cause I, well I had my, so I had my, I still have my red shirt cause I didn't register. Right. And so I was like, yeah, I'm in. He's like, but back then we didn't have the transfer portal. So you had to go and get your coach had to release you and they wouldn't give me my release. He's like, no, I'm not releasing my. That's a pretty big. What if, right? That's a great. What if? And so, you know, I was like, Okay. Now, so you can still leave, but you couldn't accept money. And at the time, like we laugh, I mean, now it's cheap, right? USC at the time was 18,000 a semester. Right. And, uh, I was like, we can't afford 18. Was that 03? Would that have been 03? Would have been, no, would have been, uh, 02. So my, well, 2000, 2001. So I graduated 2000, 2001 was my first year. And then, so I, uh, came out, I was like third team all American, my sophomore year. uh so it was after my sophomore year i was you know all the preseason all american stuff and so oops bails right and i remember he was our office coordinator and he was like call me and then he's like you got you got to let me know he's like i gotta get a scholarship with someone else if you can't take it i was like well talk to lou i wonder who i wonder who got that scholarship i don't know yeah i was i'm never gonna get sitting in the office and my coach was like nope ain't happening and i was like well i guess i better better make do with what i got here so uh which probably for the best, you know what I mean? Who knows what happens? You go, you get, you get to an SC, you're, you're red shirt. And you're probably, you know, I, you know, I ended up with great D line coaches. So, but yeah, that's, that's always my, my client of family. And we all would laugh about it. Ryan, I was like, could have been teammates, bud. Yeah. I see Ryan all the time. You could have, what was I going to say? Oh, coach Ogeron. Coach Ogeron would have been your D line coach. He was our D line. He took the Ole Miss head coaching job. You would have been already gone in 04. But he was a D-line coach. He was great. He was fucking a nut, though. You guys were... We were rolling in that era. It had to be close to a decade. You guys ruled the Pac-10. I wanted to go to UW. Washington was great, too. That's right. Once I realized I didn't have anywhere near the graves to get into Notre Dame to play for new holds, I was like, all right. Better bring it back closer to home. Oh, man. what if that's been cool how much um because you know i know you got kids and you got a lot of things going on how much nfl do you currently watch if any again because i know like i said the minute you have kids all bets are off of what you could actually sit down and watch because i'm going somewhere with this question but i wanted to gauge that first you know what um more honestly more the last probably like six months ish you know this last season more than i have you know my first retired didn't watch any uh but you know just enough especially when you're kind of you know constantly through the hall of fame stuff and you're doing interviews you don't want to sound like a complete idiot so just enough to like catch up but i very seldom do i get a chance to watch a full game like playoffs i'll try to watch a game or two here a lot of times it's just kept you know keeping up on you know what the scores are box scores you know so i got my buddies the GM over at Denver so I keep up with them obviously keep up with the Vikings and cheers and stuff like that so enough to know what's going on but not enough to you know right were you tracking at all the miles Garrett because look I am so happy Aaron Rodgers went on the record in that video and said that was 100% of Jared Allen's sack it's bullshit and when you I watched it since I like he said that and I watched that play a million times like you were the only person to affect that play anyway like you were on him you're the only person to touch him like how was that like he re-established possession right so even though he had the muff he re-established possession and he could have thrown it that's where i was my argument and they gave it to me that day and then they took it from me on wednesday but it's great you know and every year has this i mean you can go back to uh you know reggie white when they had 14 games right uh but you could go back to you know so when i first got a league a like a snap over the head first person to touch him got the sack that was a sack yeah i mean and then even you so then they switched it now it used to be like let's say you know a guy had full attack you know if you caused the fumble you used to get the sack right it didn't matter now sometimes split it or now they'll say hey this guy we came in late caused the fumble he already you know now first contact tends to get the sack so there's been i mean i lost probably a handful of things over the years from half sacks But that one, yeah. But I always laugh at the one, you know, this is my own dumb fault. In that same game, I hit Aaron on a blitz, right? And I thought he was down. And I went off and celebrated. Well, he stayed up, I guess. And Antoine Winfield got the sack. And I was like, oh, I thought I had three in that game. And then Wednesday had one. I was like, what? What happened? Well, yeah, no, Miles Garrett. I am a massive fan of Miles Garrett. I think, you know, I like about him because we're in this world of college football where everybody specializes, right? And you see the trend of everybody wants to go to these hybrid type defenses and have these, you know, fast rush coverage guys. And Miles still predominantly plays the right side, right? He's predominantly going to go against the best tackle. And he's on a team where, you know, he's the guy. So, you know, to be able to sustain the level he sustained, being that guy in those conditions, that league, that environment. and to do, I mean, honestly, it's just, if you don't respect talent, then, you know, then you're not a true competitor and you're not, you know, you won't truly love the game. And so for me, any record I hold, I hope, I hope a worthy adversary, you know, you'll beats it, you know, somebody that comes along that, that loves the game that I'm a fan of puts force effort. And, and that's what miles does. And like I said, I mean, the dude's a four down player, you know, I mean, the guy that can go down and play a three technique and probably be a beast. He reminds me a lot of a Julius Peppers who I'm a master fan of. And so, you know, watching him chase it. I honestly, I thought he was going to hit 30. I mean, he had, I think he had 10 in three weeks. And I'm just like, this is, this is an insane pace. And then you're looking and I'm like, and then they're playing Pittsburgh and you saw what happened in the playoff game, right? Their O-line wasn't the best. And I'm like, this guy might have five. And, uh, you know, my guy, Aaron, my guy, Aaron didn't let it happen. I was, I was telling Jerry this week, I'm like, Like, just to your point, there's only, like, the true art, and you're one of the best to do it. I want to pick your brain on this. But, like, you kind of look at a guy like Max Crosby who's there, Miles Garrett. It's almost a rare breed now because it is so much hybrid now. Like, even Micah Parsons is fantastic, but he can stand up, right? He can play coverage. He does a lot of things. So it's like, I don't want to say it's a dying breed, but it is kind of nice when you see just an old-school DM put his hand in the dirt and just go one-on-one against the tackle. Like, it gives me chills just thinking about it. I love it. I got you just now thinking about it. Dwight Freeney, you know, back in the day, too. And it's crazy. So Micah Parsons is a stud. Like, absolutely. What I look at guys, too, is, you know, I look at their tackles, to be honest with you, right? And I'm like, you got to try to at least have 40-plus tackles on top of those sacks, right? You see guys that got 15 sacks and got 20 tackles. You're like, so, what, 45 plays? I know it's not relative to just that. They're making impacts. But I like guys that are trying to make impacts across the board, right? The reason I played D-line was to have first crack at every play. I didn't want to be known as a passer. I'm a football player, right? I'm a defensive football player. And that's what I see with guys like, you know, Michael Parsons, you know, Max Cross with the Garrison of the world, and even, you know, T.J. Watt and stuff like that. But you're right. So the reason the hybrid, people go to the hybrid because, you know, you look at Sean Merriman when he first came in. So the Chargers were really kind of that first really aggressive 3-4. I know they weren't, but you had Sean Phillips and Merriman and our offensive line would count them as linebackers. So they weren't big. So a lot of times you're full sliding. So let's say they say Sean Phillips is the big. So they're going to slide to him. Now Merriman's one-on-one with a back. And as you know, back then, you're not supposed to cut. The back is not supposed to cut because the fear of the linebacker going into the quarterback's knees. And so I'm like, these dudes are getting one-on-one blocks with running backs. We're taking them to the chest. I'm getting cut by every running back. No, man, I'm trying to figure it out. You know, am I jumping? Yeah, you're right. And so I used to get so frustrated on the matchups they would create. And so to your point to see miles and see guys that are, you know, going against bigs going against the best, you know, and I, I'm one of those rare people. And then again, me and Max have communicated over the years a little bit. I think Max could be even better. I think there's some stuff he could do that, that could, that could, that could clean up. And I, and I say that with all due respect, I think there's some, some things, that he could really take advantage of how fast twitchy is and how lengthy he is to set up some more of his rushes. And he could, I mean, those guys look like they could get to a game. And so I like watching some of those new school guys that have the old school mentality. Micah has that when he lines up and he's that added, like you said, but he can come from the middle. He can come from wherever and he creates a matchup nightmare, which as a defensive coordinator, you love, but as a purist, again, best best in get on the right side go against the left tackle and let's see and then from an offensive standpoint if you have to chip on the left side you got a weak left tackle you need a new guy i i uh so i i want to ask you and i hope maybe i we're going to blast this out i hope young pass rushers watch this because when you when you watch you know as a quarterback your film study is a lot and you know you're getting tells and defenses all that for you when you watch film and when you went against maybe certain tackles, just take us through your mindset on how you went into a game every week and how you were going to attack that tackle one-on-one. Yeah. So obviously film study is massive, right? And that's kind of what I tell young guys too. I'm like, you have to know how to practice is huge. But you also have to understand yourself. So first off, know what your strength is, right? So I tell you to have one move and a counter move. you know you can have a progression to how you get there like with your long arm progression and stuff like that and and leverage the technique but it's really so for me it's fully understanding the basics of my alignment and my get off first and foremost right those are the two most important things and understanding where that tackle is going to go so my first thing i want to watch on a tackle is how is he set which is he an angle a which i would call which would be straight back or is an angle b where he's coming out at a 45 right um is he a rhythm puncher so is he going to Is he going to give me the same set over and over and over? And then, you know, then how does he play? And I don't, I'm one of those guys that I don't want, I don't like watching films of them kicking the crap out of somebody. I want to see how they get beat. And then do I have that in my repertoire to beat them? If I don't, okay, crap, well, I'm not going to go learn a new skillset, right? And I think that's the thing a lot of young pass rushers do. They try to change their skillset to try to beat the tack, you know, to be better at the tackle versus how do I set this tackle up to make my skillset better? And so, again, just watching their rhythm. And then, again, your run game tape is really important, too, because if I watch a guy getting beasted in the run game or if a guy comes off the line and he has to move his arms and expose his chest before he can move, I'm like, all right, he's got bad feet, right? So now we can take advantage of his feet. And then, so after your stance, you start, my first priority, I got to capture the inside half. I got to kill the inside half of that body. So the other mistake guys make is they try to kill the outside. They think the outside half is the problem. So they're going to rush, try to knock that outside arm down, you know, try to run the corner, not understanding what they're trying to do. But all that tackle has to do then is just, you know, kind of drop step open and run them around the corner. And, you know, they'll willfully ask any tackle, you're going to run eight yards deep. That's fine. The quarterback better step up. Right. So then understanding how I, you know, where my contact points are, how I got to set that, you know, that tackle to shut down his inside half. So then I can shorten the corner, right. Trapping arm on that and that's something like that. So, you know, that's kind of, that's always a progression I went through. And so for me, anybody that was going to give me their hand, they were dead in the water. That was my bread and butter hand fighting, being able to set something up, grab an elbow, flip hips. You know, I trained MMA for like eight, eight years, eight seasons with jujitsu and stuff like that, which was fantastic for a pass rushing. And then, and then the other, you know, then like, so, you know, take now go the other side. If I got something that just kind of sloppy in my way which are the hardest ones to go against Sometimes guys are just bad in your way Or there drifting straight back So now i have to now i have to mess with my with my alignment right so as a dn width and depth is my issue right so the d tackle you have a depth issue as an defense fan i got whipped and depth right so how far am i off the ball and how wide am i and so you mess with that so for me i want to try to get as tight as i can get without affecting his set so that tackle is going to kick out to me wide every time right how tight can i get to him to he's going to kick so on my third step he's already overset me i'm going inside uh and so those are the different angles you play and then you know going through your long arm progression if a guy's not going to be heavy with his hands you got to go through your long arm progressions on that uh but which really just then gets it forces him into a hand fight right uh and so yeah that's that's how that still film study works it's just frame by frame play by play watching you know watching you know then on a grander spin is understanding the totality of the offense right you know how can i best way for a young passer if you can if you can get a tip on a play action pass game over If I can jump to a nine technique when you guys think I'm going to be head up in an eight, it's just that tight end has no chance. But, yeah, that's why I love the game. And that's why even you said it's a car for me. It really is. I love it. It's a science to it, right? It is. It's a violent science. And that's the other thing is these young guys got to understand there is massive contact in pass rushing. And if you're afraid of that, then you're just going to be one of those guys. You might have a good year or two, and then you're going to get washed out because the offensive linemen are just going to attack you. Jerry, how special is that right there? Did you understand any of that? I get all excited. It's like football porn, man. It's the greatest fucking thing in the world, man. I just feel like we got the Jared Allen pass rushing camp audio edition right there. Yeah, you know, I did. I went up to Denver. I worked with those guys a couple years ago doing some consulting work and just working with the guys with Benito and Cooper and them and Jamar Kand, the D-line and pass rush coach up there. He was new then, and so I worked with him and stuff like that. But that's the part I love. because it is it is an absolute science and you take like a nick benito i mean he's one of the this dude he's got like that dwight spring you know remember how fast dwight was like he was running like a fourth that spin move was insane oh my gosh like this is insane and nick's not that tall right uh no he's taller than dwight i think he's probably like six three six two six three maybe yeah but it's small for you know it's not as yeah yeah he's not the six six six dwight was i told jerry dwight was 5 11 maybe max and like just that's crazy yeah it was what he did It was unbelievable. Oh, it was insane. What he did, like, guys like Jonathan Ogden were so hard for me, right? Because he's taller than me. I mean, just, it's an awkward pass rush. And the way Dwight could just close that hit space and put him on his heels and then spin 13 different times was impressive. But, you know, you get a guy like Benito, and that's where I'm like, you know, for him, I'm just like, dude, you are so talented, so fast, so quick. If you have great technique, nobody will stop you. And I think that's the big thing guys lose when they try to rely on their athleticism and you don't go down the rabbit hole of what football is about, right, at each position. And if you do that and now you take away those little micro, you know, half step here, half second here, this, that, and the other, that's where guys become dangerous. And to bring it full circle back to what Myles Garrett does, I mean, just look at that last rush he had. People can say, oh, Joe Burrow stepped up, laid down. I mean, Joe Burrow was either getting sacked by Myles, getting sacked by that D tackle. but did you not see his stand i mean his start was he was off the ball no problem i mean that dude dipped around that corner that tackle had no there was nothing that tackle could do he made that corner so short and he did it by by taking away that hip cushion and not allowing space for that tackle recover it was it was beautiful and um and so i look back at those guys like that and i might you know well deserve and so hopefully young guys you know are getting taught technique at a young level right blessed and great coaches um and because that's because that's what's going I mean, that's happened. We have to be the we have to be the counterpoint to you guys. Right. You have a great quarterback. You have to have someone that can neutralize that. All right. So each week we do a Wendy's Fresh Take of the Week segment. And we like to loop in our guests here because my question for you for our Fresh Take of the Week is who are some of the past rushers that you watched as a young guy, whether high school, college or even when you first got to the NFL? Who are some of the past rushers you admired that you just had to get a look at? Oh, that's a long list. I'll tell you it wasn't a lot I got banned from watching Dwight Freeney film okay I got banned funny story my second year I came into OTAs and we were one-on-ones and we're not supposed to be doing one-on-ones and OTAs but we were and I threw a spin move and my coach God rest his soul Bob Carmelo it's he dog cussed me he's like you gumby mother you're a lever that you don't know if you if I ever see you watching another Dwight if you ever throw a spin move when you don't get chip you're on the you're done i'm firing you that's great that's great i was not a good spin move guy but um like you said peppers are you so i like watching guys that you know that i that were technique we were similar to right so jason taylor i'm a huge fan of jason taylor uh obviously bruce smith growing up i watched a ton of film of leslie o'neill and derrick thomas when i first got to derrick thomas yeah that's how i went how to get off the ball right so derrick thomas i mean I was like, how does he get off the ball so fast? So, and Matt, you might know that you do this. Actually, a question for you. Do you guys even know that quarterbacks do this? But almost 90% of all quarterbacks drop their bottom hand right before they're ready to get the ball, right? You know, it's that bottom hand. Yeah, you have a feel, yeah. Yeah, and so I go off the hands. And so I would always go off the quarterback's hands. And Peyton was the only one I ever saw, like, on two would drop his hand. So you never really watched the ball. You just watched the hand. Never. Because you're watching the ball, you're already late, right? yeah and uh so i and i learned that from derrick thomas i was like how does he get out the ball so fast my coaches are he's watching their hands so i would just in practice we just study hands hands hands and and you know that's another thing on on watching quarterbacks right does he drop his hand does he have a tell like drew breeze will have like on pass play split sneaks back a little further right um so you know guys like that were were instrumental and then um you know massive fan of Chris Dolman. I mean, Dolman was another just, he was light years ahead of his time. And then, you know, during, during the year, like I said, I would, I would, you know, it was Peppers. It was, it was DeMarcus Ware, you know, really try to watch as much as those guys, Jason Taylor, when he was playing of those long, you know, long leverage technique guys that are going to, that are going to work that process. And so, but yeah, I mean, there's, there's so many greats, you know, there, there really is. I mean, Reggie White, I mean, you just want to watch him as a fan i couldn't do anything reggie white i tried to throw a hump one time i thought i blew my shoulder out i was like okay that's not for me for me we're gonna put that one in the bag um but yeah you just described it in like a poker player way with the tells man like it's really like reading someone in a poker it's like a chess game man and when you find that tell you don't want to let the opponent know you got it it's like round and the silent count is the best and uh you We picked up on a silent count until playing my second year playing. And so I'm all excited. I mean, it was rhythmic, right? Head up, 1,001, snap the ball. I get three sides of that game. So they asked me in the media afterwards, and I'm like, man, my coach told us about the head bob. I just spilled the B, and he was like, shut up. He's like, when you know something, don't tell anybody they're going to change it. But yeah, silent count. And then, I mean, things like a lot, you know, guys pick up more now probably, but the play clock is your best friend. especially in the in like a two minute drill or anything i mean if that play clock's under three i'm going on the first sound right if i'm off it is what it does uh guys don't you know that's the other thing too guys don't really realize uh hard counts in the red zone especially like only i guess you'd call it lower red zone matt right 10 and in 10 and if you get caught in a hard count down there what you're gonna you know especially inside the five i'm going exactly yeah i'm going on first down every time because it's you know they lose five yards what they gain a yard and a half yeah so it's those it's those those vet things and i had great vets that you know taught us along the way um but that's again little skills that you learn when i was watching films of these greats right you look at bruce smith yeah he had 200 sacks but you know how many disruptive plays he had uh you know you i mean bill's team was great you had bryce popping it you know corneally's been from a linebacker standpoint so um you know again that question i know i just that's awesome all over it no word are you kidding you're giving this is like this of gems right here it's a uh it's it's such a it's such a complex thing because you start going down like one one guy leads you to the next guy right at least for me it did like you know you're like oh my gosh this dude and then you know you see something then then all of a sudden you hear deacon jones talking trash about reggie white and you're like now i gotta see what deacon jones is all about and then you got mean joe green who you know you hear other players talk about him and i guess this is the first time i got to meet him in person uh you know was in canton and the nicest guy ever you know he was fantastic but you hear stories about how he came in as a rookie and dude were genuinely afraid of him just to be able to instill that type of you know prowess and just just control over another grown man is fantastic so those are the guys i loved watching well dude we could before we let you go we could listen we could talk ball all day man this has been awesome we do want to switch to curling okay because i think i know you i know you're you're into it you are like fully invested world-class curler just the backstory and then also i'm actually curious will you will you go to the olympics the winter olympics coming up to see it to be a part of it no i won't so i won't be at the olympics um unfortunately i had a chance to be on cory dropkins team this couple years ago as an alternate and the usopc blocked it um for some reason i guess they didn't want to why did they block i don't like them everyone's I wasn't a part of their program. Right. That's that was the gist of it. And so. So. But, you know, I competed. Goodness. So I put long story short, I took a bet from a buddy to try to make the Olympics. Right. We chose curling. I went. And then once I'm one of those person, like one I'm in, I'm all in. So I hired like Olympic coaches and guys to come out and train me here. Mark Bolger opened up a curling facility here in Nashville. Oh, yeah. I said we're just like just constantly rolling. And then, you know, COVID hit. So teams change. but me and our skip Jason Smith stayed together. We played on a bunch of teams. I think I've been to four nationals. I think fifth was the top. We finished something like that. And then, so then I ended up, I had an opportunity to invest in a company like me, Kittle, Hawkinson, and all those guys. We, we invested in this company up out of Canada who we own the grand slams of curling, right? So grand slams of curling are like, like the majors of golf, right? There's five events to be top 15 in the world to participate in. And so we had our very first grand slam in the United States ever. I summer up in Tahoe, Lake Tahoe. So I helped connect that and get that put together. So they called me. I didn't curl for a year after not getting, you know, put on Dropkins team. And then the format for the trials kind of changed. It used to be eight teams and it went to six and it was four. And so there was really no chance of not having my team put together. And so my buddy, the CEO, he's like, hey, you want to curl in the slam in Tahoe? And I'm like, well, yeah, I guess so. I haven't curled in a year. Might as well go play against the best player in the world. Why not? Do you get nervous for that? Is it the same feel as being on a football field? Same thing. You know what? Dude, if you're a competitor, right? I always tell you there's two types of competitors. Guys that are going to get punched in the face and keep coming back. And you have that self-confidence that, hey, I can figure this out and get it done. And there's those guys, and you know them. I mean, they're in the league. They get shook, right? Or something bad happens about the highest level, and they're like, oh, or they don't want to risk it because they don't want to expose themselves to potentially not being good, right? so i've never had that um i don't get nervous in the sense of like and i'm just like well my whole philosophy is i will not be the reason we lose and that's my mindset like i might not be the best my dang sure won't be the worst and uh and so you know i know i mean now my team was pretty stacked my buddy jason he was a 2010 olympian and then johnny morris and wayne uh madat who are two of the greatest canadian curlers ever both like multiple gold medals like multiple world champions but none of us had curled in like over a year in years. And, uh, so we're like, well, screw it. So we, we practiced for like three weeks. We went out there first game. We, uh, we tied the number five team in the world. Uh, and that's what we hung our hat on. And, uh, we were not, I played fantastic. I think I was 89% for the whole tournament, but, uh, we, it was just a buzz sauce. So we played, we played white from Scotland. They are the top five team in the world. Then we had to play, um, a Dean, the Swedish team, you know, who wins every gold medal known to man. and then we had to play uh mallet which is the number one team in the world they just won the world championships and uh we had some chances but we had a blast i love that's awesome man swedes are the heavy favorites going into the olympics right remember the scots probably yeah so moat's really really good those guys and these countries are putting like building massive facilities now around oh i'm watching you've inspired i'm going all in so much but we got him because we're watching i'm like all right most people start at the age of 40 i'm like cool that works the loser the winners have to buy the loser's beer i'm like i'm it let's let's work for me so but yeah so now we're kicking a league off you know we start uh we start the rock league right here after the olympics little spring league uh for curling um but yeah it's a massive growing sport and the company we got you know uh it is fantastic with a whole bunch of you know media It's, you know, content around curling is great as well. So, but a great sport. It's fun. It's, uh, it's challenging, but yeah, that's how I got into it. And then I'm, I'm all it. Dude. Can't thank you enough, man. This was truly as a guy, like I always admired watching as a fan. This was awesome to have you on and shit, man, you're going to get lots of calls. We had like, when are you going to come coach? You're going to get lots of coaching calls. Oh, yeah. I like Sean. So no, Joe, Sean Payton, a couple of years ago, we're on, we're on spring break. He was like, Hey, you want to, uh, you want to come coach in Denver, uh, be our pastor's guy. And I was like, like, what hours are we talking about? Yeah. I like my life. I like, does he give you space? And what are the hours? And, uh, he was like, well, typically, you know, I was like, so he's like, well, it's hybrid. Let's just get, let's just bring you in, you know, a couple of days a week, you know, we'll figure it out and you'll see if you like it. And dudes are there to like 10, 11 o'clock at night. I was like, my kids like, you know, I put my kids to bed. my wife's like yeah i'm we're not hiring and uh you know we've never had a babysitter in anything we're not hiring them now like what no like we're not having other people drive our kids to sporting events because you're working till midnight and i so i was like i have no problem helping out i love teaching the art of pass rushing um but the idea of having to be there unless it was a head coaching job where i could set my own hours and everybody was home by five i'm good yeah well i appreciate I can't thank you enough. This is so fun. Oh, my pleasure. But I got to get your perspective, though, Matt, from college football, though. A, I know, why would Notre Dame not play? Why would they not play? Oh, what, the bowl game? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. And then how do you correct the coaching situation? I mean, the NIL thing is, but let's be honest, precedent was set by no coach ever having to honor their contract. The lane kick is absolutely absurd. I know. And he's I mean, I love Lane. I had Lane at USC and he's kind of done that everywhere. I think the biggest thing is like just the calendar, the way the calendar is set, where you have these situations that arise and there's nothing you could do about it. Even like we're just talking about it this week. The national championship game was earlier earlier. And it was like three weeks off. And next next year, the national title game is like January 25th weekend, which is like it's absurd. So like the calendar, yeah, the calendar of like the coaching, the portal. Now there's only one portal, which just closed earlier this month. But I'm with you, man. Like the calendar, what's going to happen, Jared, is there's going to be a commissioner just like the NFL. There's going to be a players union. And that's the way I think it all gets fixed. And you heard what Utah is trying to do, right? Yeah. Utah was talking to private equity to come buy a football team. Which is why it's that. I will say this, though. It's all of this, like, kind of, quote, unquote, negative stuff. Like, the game is still unbelievable. And the parity with Indiana, the parity has never been better, which I think is awesome for the game. But, yeah, they need to fix some of the other stuff. And the coaches and players leaving every year and all. There's like thousands, there's four or five thousand kids that got stuck in the portal because they thought they had another place to go at the end, which is sad. That never gets talked about, right? It doesn't, yeah. Because you're done then. You lost your scholarship from the previous school. Maybe you go to JC or maybe. Yeah, it's just like it's. Yeah, there's a lot. There's there's there's a lot of negative. There's a lot of positive. And hopefully we can kind of clean all that up. But yeah, man. Appreciate you, brother. Yeah, well, I'll be I'll be going to your tutelage to know what happens next. You guys have a good one. okay annie agar joining us courtesy of twisted tea as she always does grab a refreshing twisted tea today annie i know for our listening audience annie is wearing a hoodie that looks like it's like a michael jordan air jordan jordan brand hoodie thank you and the jump man is kind of Jordan love so that's what we're doing here there's a little love underneath so it's literally Jordan love so I think it's the coolest is this in response whoever made this hoodie to the fact that Caleb actually has the football jump man and this is a little yeah that's right I forgot about that that fourth down throw he looked a little is that sour grapes because Caleb has the Caleb has the throw you know I'll just say I didn't show up on my TikTok shop until after that throw so i don't know is that is that from tiktok shop by the way they get you every time they every time it's curated to just yeah to get those little things that you don't need but you also need so what do you mean i i bought this whole contraption that's going to make my jaw stronger i have to like chew on this piece of rubber apparently that's going to make my jaw stronger that was an instagram buy i need to know i feel like there's a whole story behind that because i've never seen those before well before we get to our twisted trivia uh we got to talk about a couple of things today first and foremost um is it now over for coaches to be first battle hall of famers and bill pollian who everyone said which is a joke by the way that's a joke doesn't bill pollian kind of need to show his vote though to prove his innocence because everyone blamed him and i was like what do we mean i voted for him i need to know and maybe you guys know or maybe matt what what is the reasoning? What is it? Cause of the whole like cheating allegation, like the flake gates, spy gate were apparently big. What would be their reasoning for not having him be first ballot? I listened, I listened to the shows and our buddy, my buddy, Peter Schrager, who's awesome, kind of broke it down. What he potentially thought that could have happened was they vote like in a room, whatever they do, they vote. And based on the other people that were on the ballot, cause he was a first ballot. I think it was like, you know, Roger Craig. There's some other ones that have been on the ballot before. Yeah. He thought maybe that it's broken down by some of these people are like, well, Bill's going to be a Hall of Famer no matter what. My vote this year is going to go for someone who's who needs it, who who needs it to get in potentially now. And again, there's like there's no like morality clause like there is in baseball, baseball. Obviously, we know why some of those guys aren in and probably never get in football There not And so I do think my just my opinion is there probably some people on there that don like them there probably some people on there that are going to use spygate and i mean deflate gates the biggest joke of all time but spygate like oh they cheated i i don't i don't know that he broke it down that's like oh he's going to get in regardless he'll get the votes at some point my question to you guys is is this like is this a one-time thing or is this like one of these like almost a coup to keep him out amongst people like like like Barry Bonds or A-Rod or some of these people you know what I mean like that's gonna be fascinating I want to believe what Schrager's saying because it does make sense like hey this is this guy's last shot to get in or you know it makes sense so okay you like him but then like if you move the ball again on him like the second time around I just think it's like it makes it hard to really not that we overly care too much about the hall of fame as fans but like it makes it really hard to take it seriously that oh so that guy's not a first ballot hall of famer it makes it really hard to look at the first ballot hall of famers and be like yeah of course like tom brady's gonna be a first ballot hall of well that that was other people say it was like well does that mean tom brady's not a hall of famer because of which he was a part of both of those things yeah it's just it's like setting it up for it's harder now in the future to explain everything and and give you a reasoning who thought we'd live in a world where bill belichick's not a hall of famer and shador sanders a pro bowler crazy crazy wait wait that i don't even understand and i know the pro bowl doesn't matter anymore and no one cares and guy i i actually i think we said this off the air mad i'm like thank like of course like don't play football when it doesn't matter like that was always a bad idea it's crazy that went on as long as it did but what's the meaning of this i know like did so many guys say no that we got to like the 27th best quarterback how do you go to him like of all i don't know i don't get it so we used to the whole pro it's it's changed now but when i was playing we would get a sheet of paper and it would be every team and we'd vote for the pro bowl and it would be every team and like you know whatever maybe or every position and it'd be like the top seven or eight guys based on like tackles or whatever and it was always always like just a name you had a name you'd vote for him right so that's why a lot which it was like we were guilty of we're just like all right uh middle linebacker you got brian urlack or ray lewis and it could have been someone that was like 150 like had the best year should have been a pro bowler um so the voting process was always just skewed um and then over time just no one like it used to be in hawaii so you like you could like take a family and i know people went they're like oh it was a great uh family vacation it was just kind of like a getaway right and you play a little football whatever and people stopped watching the product was so bad now people just don't want to go and they're just like there's no incentive anymore for them to go like for what reason it's in i don't know is it in the city of where the super bowl is now i think it is yeah so wasn't it it was like in orlando or anything i and and look should that's and that's not shador's fault it's just the whole process of how this is being voted on is ridiculous but which in that piece it shouldn't be touted as like you wouldn't say like tyler huntley pro bowler title like it shouldn't be this high that's why matt in our intros we got to maybe stop listing how many times the player was named to the pro bowl because uh pro bowl maybe it's a big incentive it it kind of clicks a incentive that's i mean maybe there's Not necessarily for Shador, but for other people to go. Is it a little bit of a troll? Like, all right, you know what? This kid got kind of taken through the ringer all year long. His name was thrown around. Put him in the pro ball. Let's see what I mean. Yeah, it's kind of a joke. And it's also like, I don't know. Yeah. And I, you know, whatever. I don't know. It's crazy. It's a win. He need it. Annie, who are you pumped for now that we almost have every job secure except for what, the Raiders? As we tape this. So the Raiders, the last one because and the Cardinals. Those are the last two gigs. Browns, right? Browns hired. They got Munkin. Munkin. Munkin. Yes, Munkin. Just like an hour ago, maybe. So while you guys were filming. Who do you I mean, who are you just like? It's almost like if you think of your videos as a show. Right. Yeah. These are your new cast members. So who are you? That's true. Jerry, that's a great way of putting you excited and fired up to write for. I think you're going to. And I have I have the one. I think you're going to get awesome stuff from. Oh, thank you. Um, Hmm. The most excited about, I already have content for Joe Brady, like around Joe Brady. So I think that hire is hilarious. Somebody tweeted out how funny would it be if he hired Sean McDermott as his new DC hilarious. Just peak comedy. Um, so that just the whole bills organization alone gives me a ton of content and I'm a fan of Joe Brady. Like I think he's a great play caller. Just as hilarious. How like somebody said he's gonna call the first play of the season next year should be a screen but this man nobody's gonna keep him in check now to not call screens he's gonna call it every single play so i don't know i think that's gonna be a fun one who are you thinking i think you're gonna get gold from sala and dable oh yeah one two punch i think you're gonna get both for new york too hilarious so it writes itself essentially i think you're gonna get gold and then i think whoever honestly ends up in you know vegas or arizona is all that's going to be the real comedian yeah also mccarthy and i already have jokes written from mccarthy because of my years watching him that's that's going to be peak peak comedy so i think kubiak's going to get one of these jobs he's probably raiders right yeah so he's been the number one pick you want to get an offensive minded guy knowing you know you got the one pick who do the cardinals get i don't know nobody wants ago there. I know Shula was a big name, but the Rams defense has not. If you look at the Rams defense the last six weeks, it certainly hasn't been a lockdown defense. All I know, guys, is Jonathan Gannon coming to Green Bay. Hopefully he doesn't take the bus. It's going to be a great time. I'm very happy about that high price. Cole just texted us in our chat. Chris Shula reportedly bombed his Steelers interview. I do believe people throw interviews i do believe like if that's not a place you want to go you take i know a couple people in the cycle or that have been that have been in the cycle that were just terrible terrible terrible interviews and the reason why they don't have a coaching job which i won't say on here but i do know a couple names which i will text you about people if you if you don't do well in your interview like just bad like like so bad that you're like wow this he cannot lead our team they could be a great coordinator but yeah well that's seen true matt right when you're in the draft process when you go through your interviews like uh if you kind of flunk your interview it could really hurt your draft position so it should be the same thing for coaches those interviews are that's for another time man i was i sat with sean payton and the saints for like 30 minutes and just grilled me dude is it like x's and o's grill or like personal i mean we could talk about it so it was we have to set up no it's well there were two so So the Jets came out because they picked fourth. They ended up drafting DeBrickish out Ferguson. But they came out for the weekend, like two days, and interviewed me, private workouts, the whole thing. And we were probably three hours up on a board going through the playbook. And that was probably a strength of mine, like just retaining and all that kind of stuff. But then it's just like they just ask you oddball questions, man, like keep you on your toes. It was like I remember Mangini asked me, like, what was the last book I read? And just ran – just stuff. Like I'll be drawn to plays. Like, hey, Matt, what was the last – what was the name of the last book you read? And like I don't remember my answer. But anyway, no, I was at Saints. It was – you're in the hotel in Indianapolis, and you basically have scheduled interviews depending on where you're drafted or quarterback, whatever. And I had a bunch, and the Saints were picking second, and they ended up picking Reggie. But there was real like they were real chatter to draft me because it was a breeze, a shoulder and all that kind of stuff. And he I sat in there as him and like their whole crew. And he was just grilling me about my entourage and the people. I swear to God, the people around me. And why do you love the show, by the way? Peyton, why do you have a quarterback coach? And who's this agent you have? And like it was just bombarding me, dude. I got up on the board and I did well. I was honest. Like it was, but it was, yeah, it was just like, like it was crazy. I went out there too for a visit. Like they really, they really did their homework on me. It was close. But why does your dad come to every game? Well, I don't understand. It's like, who are all these people around you? You got this guy, this guy, this guy. I'm like, I had like a quarterback coach and like, it was like my agent, but it was like, you know, it was the whole Hollywood thing. They were just tearing me apart. Wow. That's good though. Anyway. Yeah. Annie, that's good. That, that's, that's a good, I mean, you probably will. thinking that but like the interview process for some of these coaches interviewing draft i'd like to see mike mccarthy in the room oh yeah well those guys i mean for for the older school guys they've been doing it for so long like it's like yeah they have their way of doing it they've won you know but but the new guys is that can be nerve-wracking because you've never been you've never been a head coach you've never been in that situation so you get all sorts of crazy questions right so that's wild especially in college too now college is is crazy because the whole nil and just a different well now i can't even believe i don't even want to i don't even imagine what those questions are like anyways um should we we have a little twist on the twisted tea trivia well yeah since i've absolutely dominated this i had not i did not dominate andy though i did not dominate andy it's only two to one i believe um but jerry has been a distant third i am taking over the duties guys for so this is the loser bracket the losers bracket we'll go we'll We'll go like a best out of seven with you, and then you guys can come back to the champ and see if you guys can beat me. There we go. All right. We talked about Belichick a little earlier. The theme. All right. 1996 Patriots. Is that even fair for Annie? It was the year I was born. That's the last time they played a Super Bowl without Brady and Belichick. Wow. Annie, if you beat me here, I'm going to need a minute. No offense to you. We should be all right here. You guys ready? Yep. All right. First question. Who is a safety and cornerback fans called the law firm? Oh, hold on. I got it. But I'm being smart here. The second I knew. The second Eddie said these are going to be easy. I'm going to guess. I knew. Ty Law and Lawyer Malloy? Ding, ding, ding. Yes. Very good. Annie, you might have been sabotaged today. I might have. Geez. That probably. Annie was like three years old running around. No, I was born. That might have been the harder one. I was born in 96. All right. So, 1-0, Jerry. All right. Second question. Okay. You got this. Who did they beat in the conference championship to advance to the Super Bowl that year? The Patriots? Who did the Patriots beat in the conference championship to advance to the Super Bowl in 1996? I know. In 2015. Let's take a stab. Let's see. I think I know it. Broncos? Okay. Nope. Annie, you get a chance or you get a hint. Ooh. I'll throw some out there. The Colts? Nope. All right. Let's get a hint, Annie, you and I. I think I have a guess now. Okay. This team made the playoffs this year. Hmm. Oh, I think I know it. It's a sneaky one. It's a sneaky one, I think. Jacksonville Jaguars. Yes. Dang it. That was going to be my next guess. I think it's Keenan McCardell. It's either Brunel or it might have been Garrard. Oh, it probably was Brunel in 1996. AFC Championship game. Ooh, that was a good one. That was a tough one. Yeah, yeah. 2-0. You still got a shot here, Annie. Okay, ready? Okay. Last question. Can't get this one. Who was the assistant head coach, defensive backs coach for the Patriots that year? I'm guessing it's got to be like went on to become an awesome coach. Yeah. D-backs and assistant head coach? Yep. And D-backs coach? Oh, this is going to be wild because we're going to know, right? Assistant head coach. can we get a hint or do we have to take guess first you guys well you guys can both get a hint or you can both guess let's get a hint because I'm I was gonna ask like yeah what team if someone's probably like a coach now from the Belichick well no he wasn't a Belichick guy he know he no longer coaches in the NFL. Oh, geez. This one, I mean, my brain is hurting. So he became a head coach and he no longer coaches in the NFL. In 1996, he was the assistant head coach, DB coach for the Patriots. The hint is he now no longer coaches in the NFL. so he coaches somewhere else is this like a super obvious answer you guys haven't even guessed one yet i don't want to guess and sound stupid i'm just trying to figure out who the the head coach who i know who that is would have as his like assistant coach is it is it bill was he annie you gotta guess just guess you got it is it did he just get rejected from hall of fame was it bill was he a debate oh wait was it say a name you got you yeah well he's no longer coaching in the nfl right wow okay all right one the pictures matter here okay the pictures matter uh we close there we got two photos now we will close the eyes and as soon as the picture pops up i will tell you to open your eyes okay right now Jerry's up two to one. Oh, God. This sounds like a meltdown now. I'm going to lose two. Close your eyes. The first picture and open. Oh, wait. Oh, wait. Be smart. Be smart. Be smart. Come on, Annie. Oh, no. Is that D'Amico Ryan's? I'm thinking you're doing a coach. Is it coaches still? Bro, it's still themed. 1996 Patriots. Annie, you get a free guest here. Oh, she gets a free guest. Damn it, I know it. You gotta stay alive. I'm gonna give Annie a hint. Give her a hint, because I got it. He was a running back. He was a running back. He was a great running back. Great running back. I know. Oh, no! For the record, I thought, in my mind, we were still doing coaches. That's why I was like, it's a coach. I don't know. I'm going to know, but I don't know. Taking it to me for the win, Curtis Martin. Dang it. No, I wouldn't have gotten that. Okay, let's put up. Close your eyes. Let's do one more for points totals. Let's put up the last picture, even though Jerry's up 3-1. Shoot. All right, picture's up. Go. Willie McGinnis. Annie, you got set up. Annie you can't I will say this I it is easier when you have the questions and it's funny to know I think that Willie Mack is easy and I thought the hardest one was probably the Jaguars who they beat see but I do remember that game because I remember being shocked that the Jaguars who were only a few years old at that point were already in the AFC championship game and you got set up I did like That'd be like doing 1979 trivia for me. I just guessed Terry Bradshaw for every answer. Me and Joe Green. Terry Bradshaw. Me and Joe Green. No, that is a fun one, though, because that, yeah. I mean, I don't really know much. They could go on to careers still later, and you've heard the names. But, yeah, you got set up there, Agar. If I were you, I'd file a grievance off the air because that was rough. Well, unlike you, too, I don't take technicalities. I'm just kidding. i'm so mad i said to mico ryan to mico ryan dude that even look like in my mind i thought we were like still doing coaches so yeah who's a current a current coach i should have i should have reset it up as the 90s it is very interesting how your brain works when it's trivia quick like that like you just go to whatever i don't know whatever the thought process is wow that was a tough one good job jerry jerry back jerry back in the win column i need something i'm glad i could i'm glad i could help with that jerry i'll take i'll take the loss battle for second place so annie you have a week now next week we'll do some super bowl picks within the three of us okay okay maybe we'll even throw something on the line because we'll probably get to see each other out there because guys we won't be sick of talking about the super bowl yet no i'm trying to avoid all like i like i don't know i'm just trying to avoid all of it until we get to like wednesday of next week and yeah lock back all i know is that radio row by that that wednesday or thursday the guys are so over the two days because there's only so many storylines you can go with you know and i what do you think we'll see more what do you think we'll see more we'll end on this what do you think we will see more the malcolm butler the interception or sam darnold like seeing ghosts versus the patriots like that that shot of him on the sideline where he's like i think we'll be more sick of the malcolm butler the whole one-year line i've already seen it a million and one times on Twitter and everybody saying like Marshawn is going to get picked off by Christian Gonzalez. Yeah, Marshawn is going to have another chance to just go after your boy Pete. And by the time by this time next week, Jerry should be a new dad once again. That's right. Any moment. I forgot. How's she doing? Any moment. She's doing great. She's like ready to get this party started. I'm like, yeah, I got to get to Santa Clara. You're like, It's happening and then all of a sudden you're like, yeah, I'll be ready. Then all of a sudden it happens. You're like, holy shit. Would you go if she if she goes into labor before like she has the baby before? Yeah, there's like a cutoff date. OK, basically, like if there's no baby by like February 3rd, 4th, like past her due date and I'm not I'm not going to risk it. Yeah. But if that was in the next couple of days and as long as everything goes well and I do have to make sure that she's feeling okay. Yeah. Yeah. You know. That's wild. Let's wrap it up. Let's wrap it up. Shout outs, Twisted T. Thank you, Annie. Thank you very much. Of course. We're out. We'll see you guys next week. We're definitely going to make some school picks. I'm going to win some money next week. I'm going to hear this. I'm going to win some money. I need the Seahawks to win, baby. Yep. Same. Let's go. Let's go.