Unfinished Business: Part 2 (Ben Rimalower on RHOBH)

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And they have installation and assembly services available for a truly stress-free experience. Way Day is the sale to shop the best deals in home. We're talking up to 80% off with fast and free shipping on everything. Head to WayFair.com April 25th through the 27th to shop Way Day. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Way Fair, every style, every home. And we are back. I'm here with Ben Rimmelauer for, can I call it a rollicking? That's something. A rollicking episode of Andi's Girls. Listen, I do feel like I'm going slightly insane. And maybe it is something that has lasted the last couple seasons because Kyle has been, and probably will forever remain in my top five. Like I love Kyle, but I just, and I've said this almost ad nauseum, I feel like at this point, but maybe not enough, in order for me to protect my love of Kyle, she cannot be on the show any longer. I agree. It's too much and she's so manipulative. And it's like, so to talk about DeRite and DeRite doing too much is so loaded to me because at the end of the day, I think what DeRite is talking about is Kyle's manipulations on camera involving the show and Kyle is her own innocence project. And nobody near Kyle, everybody else who's like, Kyle's not the queen, Kyle, even though she was never deserving of wearing that crown. She's a strong, excellent beta. She is not an alpha character. But if you put her in that alpha character role and nobody calls out her bullshit, I lose my fucking mind. And it all started with her referencing something this season that she did, was it last season or the season prior, which was not talking to DeRite for weeks or months and then the night before the reunion, sending her an extraordinarily manipulative text that was essentially like, I know we haven't talked and we have our shit, but like, let's keep in mind before we go into recording tomorrow, how much I love you. And like, maybe we have some of those conversations privately. And then she was offended because it was costing her her privacy. Miss, I've been on a reality show for 87 seasons that DeRite, God forbid, referenced that on camera. When in fact, the manipulation there, the crossing the line was Kyle sending that text to begin with because you're putting your friend or quote unquote friend, friend of me, whatever, in a terrible position. And when Kyle says very loaded words, Manic speaking in a we representing seemingly the rest of trying to make sure that her opinions represent the rest of the group when there is clearly a spectrum, including Bose, who I think is not bringing the judgment to the table that Kyle is asterisk. But then when DeRite says that Bose is a better friend to her, DeRite is so overly simplifying the history of her relationship specifically with Kyle and Erica that it's like you sound nuts because you haven't gone through conflict with Bose. You have no idea how Bose would handle direct conflict with you and whether she would side with you in that way. So to overly simplify Kyle and Erica in order to diminish their friendship in order to continue to raise up Bose is like nonsense, which I think Bose herself would agree with. It's a bit of like just an unfair, not unfair, what's the word? It's like an impossible situation. It's an illusion. Because everything is so dependent on the other factors and DeRite is like living in this weird like sort of moment to moment bubble where it's constantly just like who's giving me the most support right now in this acute crisis that it's like there is no future, there is no past as opposed to Kyle who now that I'm thinking about it more, it's not even just how she is toward DeRite. I think Kyle the last few years, it actually reminds me of Vanderpump before she left the show where you just felt like she was like over it. And she was like, I don't think it's necessarily that Kyle's more manipulative now than she ever was, but I think that before Kyle had more of a joy in being on the show. Totally agree. So the manipulation was part of just a sort of like joie de vivre of playing the game. Whereas now it's like, she's just like, ugh, I have to fucking text DeRite. DeRite, tomorrow just be nice to me because remember our friendship, et cetera. Like it's like she's just, and it makes it seem so much more like base and like flimsy. It's just reduced to nothing but the manipulation. I totally agree. And also there is a part of me that remembers very clearly as I completely fuck up a summary of it when Kyle said she and DeRite weren't even close friends. She did that at one point to invalidate DeRite's perspective. So while I understand that DeRite is extraordinarily arrogant on the best of days, is a character, is not of this earth, is so tardy, and that would annoy the shit out of me. That's so, and I say this as someone honestly who's chronically five minutes late. So like I, but that's an ADHD. I don't think we're talking about five minutes with DeRite. No, I know, but I do want to say that like, I struggle with that. I'm constantly, I could be like five to seven, sometimes 10 minutes late. That's very, I'm working. I think you're still not really dealing with involved part. I have like time blindness. I forget what it is, which is not, I'm not saying that I don't deserve to be criticized for that, but I do, it's, I, but DeRite is hours and hours late, and she is so arrogant about it and self-centered about it, unrelated to what's going on with her and P.K. As a pause in the overall conversation about DeRite and the season, can I just say something about the lateness? Yeah. First of all, I think it's weird how they are all talking about it under the topic of her manic erraticness or whatever the hell they're talking about. Well, they're all using loaded language. It's inappropriate. Forget even the language, but just, you know, in the topic about what's up with DeRite these days, a big thing that comes up a lot is the lateness, and yet it's also, DeRite's always been late. If they're saying DeRite's acting weird these last 22 months, she was always very late. But I think what Erica's saying is like the entirety of our relationship, you've done this and I'm calling it out. Yeah, that 100%. This is the unfinished business. But they're bringing, that's different than they, they keep, they're also bringing up the lateness as part of the recent stuff about DeRite, which it's not recent. And also the other thing is having been inside the housewives world, I think I understand how the DeRite thing snowballed to where it is because they're all fucking late all the time. It's like a weird, I think it has to do with you're going to film somewhere, maybe it's a little bit of a power battle between like who has to wait for who else. It's not the same as if I had been late to come record this episode with you, or if we were going to dinner and you were late. It's, it's a weird, I'm not defending it, I think there's a weird other thing. Also, I think that because of the way things work on locations and stuff, very often they get there and have to wait anyway. So if you're half an hour late, you're on time. And I think that it's, I think the reason partly that they haven't complained, right? Like Erica laid into DeRite about being late. Which I thought was entirely appropriate. Totally fine. Totally appropriate. But they've never really laid into her about it in the past. And I think it's because DeRite, when they would talk about DeRite being three hours late, it was a world where she was three hours late, but the producers weren't really ready to start till two hours and 45 minutes late. Erica was also an hour and a half late. Kyle was 45 minutes. I think, I think they were in a universe where they were all late. And so nobody could really, it was like all a matter of degree. I think that's why it's sort of just like a snowball to this point now where it's like yet another toxic thing in this mess. Yeah. And I, and I, and maybe it's one of those things where you take it until this person pisses you off and then you're like, I'm not going to take it anymore. And there are other reasons why I'm growing frustrated with you and I'm going to bring this thing up that maybe I haven't that deserves to be brought up. The other thing I do want to say is like, I do think Kyle is a great friend. You see that Kyle has friends, like women friends that she has had in her life for decades. I don't know that you can say that about several of the other women in the cast because we don't see them with friends. We see them with glam who they're friendly with, but pay. And we see them with like other staff or family members or just themselves that we don't see the wholeness and fullness of their life. And it might be because their life is relatively empty or they just don't want to show it to us. But Kyle, I mean, like while I'm like, oh my God, you like hired your best friend to be your assistant. But I think it's a credit to Kyle and her friend who's now working with her that they can figure that out because I do think that Kyle is an excellent friend. I think she's a great support system. And I think that should be said, but, but it's different on the show. But it's different on the show. And even the way this is such a small moment, but the point of it is that it was a small moment. Dorita's going around the table and like half passive aggressively apologizing to people for maybe it was her lateness at that point and the argument at the dinner last week, but she's going around and apologizing. She misses Amanda because she's literally looking at each person. It's not a big deal. Kyle says, you miss Amanda. Doriko's out of her way to essentially put a formal declaration. I did not see you. I am sorry. I include you in the group. And then Kyle circles back to that and raises her voice and makes it into a moment. She's trying to put across this thesis that Dorit has lost her mind. And it's like, I, it's just, you're trying to create this thing and you're adding too much bite to it. It's insane. And it's, it's a projection. It is performative. There's not enough here. It is empty because we've seen it happen so many times. Just get off the show. Here's the thing. If Kyle had said that about anyone besides Amanda, maybe I would have given her this one too. Yeah. Because you've been on the show six seasons with Sutton or whatever. Erica. Not only that. Not only that. I just, I, it was the bad move of Kyle because the rest of us watching it before Kyle did her whole thing when the moment just happened, we all were like, I wish I could forget Amanda. Like the moment was not one where people were like, poor Amanda, what have Dorit done? And like, so Kyle like was the, it was just yet again, Kyle just picking the wrong side. It was just so idiotic. And you could have maybe made the moment out of somebody else, but there was no way to do that with Amanda. Which just reminded me of that very famous in the historical archives moment between Rosie O'Donnell and Elizabeth Falarski, Hassleback on the View when Elizabeth Hassleback is like, poor little Elizabeth isn't poor little Elizabeth when they did the split screen that caused Rosie O'Donnell to like quit TV forever, but then she returned. Yeah, I and Team Rosie obviously very clearly, even though Elizabeth is from Rhode Island, and I will give her that. Little old Rhode Island is famous for you. I just, I kind of struggled with this a little bit. And I do have to say, did I think Amanda was super annoying and almost difficult to watch at the beginning of the season? Sure, but by the end I'm like endeared by her. Like her like dumb dancing on the dance floor. And I think she smiled somewhere else. I was like, this is like, she's just like going through life with her weirdo money empire. And like, am I considering taking a free trial? Yeah, I might. Here's what I'll say about Amanda. She's never gonna come back, but like maybe she will. Is that a fact? Is she off the show? If she will. I, none of us know anything regardless of what anyone says. I don't know what they're gonna do with Beverly Hills. I think they need to figure out Beverly Hills before they even touch Amanda. Cause she's not the problem with this season. But the more that they, it's us versus everybody else, the more, or me versus everybody, or everybody else versus me, the more that they isolate Amanda, the more I'm interested in her. Cause at least her being annoying is a character trait. True. Here's the thing about Amanda. First of all, her husband is hot. And she doesn't hurt anyone. I love the husband. Her stuff doesn't hurt anyone. It doesn't hurt anybody. That's true. Also, the thing about it is the scandal around two aspects of Amanda for me are not a problem. I don't know what happened with the cult. I don't know why they act like she's possibly making it up or something. Either way, I have never held that against her. I'm sure they're all making shit up. I'm sure they were all in cults. I have no problem. Like Kyle's a cobaltist. It's like totally cool with me. Like they can do their shit. And then the thing with the, talking about her business being a scam. Like, I don't know that all their shit's not scams. Is Mauricio's company a scam? I don't know. I'm just asking questions like Tucker Carlson. You know what I mean? What I'm saying is, like what makes Amanda like hateable to me is not her business and it's not her history with her cult. And it's certainly not her hot husband who makes less money than she does, but is worth it. Like, oh, I had no idea. Like that's not the issue. It's just the transparency and the cloying. And it's gotten to the point now where even when she does something that somebody else might do because it's her, it hits differently. Like when you got to the party and somebody said, oh my God, I love your dress. That's so pretty. And she goes, oh yeah, it's from, I forget, I forget what the brand she said was. It's such and such about a year and a half ago. Like, if it was somebody else, I would have just been like, oh, now I know what brand that dress is. I wouldn't think twice, but with her I'm just like, oh, stop. I will say if she is back, if we are so fortunate as to have her back next season, I will not be able to do the wedding planning. I won't be able to do it. The small amount that we saw, maybe I will. The idea of like arriving in a helicopter in a vineyard and then you're on a horse or some fucking shit, like it's just gonna be such, and I guess in the wedding industrial complex, which is worth billions of dollars a year, people do wild and crazy things. It's so, the ostentatiousness is very tough. I mean, they're doing it and they get everything paid for by being on the show. I think she would go out of her way for that not to happen because she has all the money in the world. I think she would be like, and here's the check that I'm, and good for her. You know, at least she's, as she has made the point many times before, she's financially independent in a way that none of the other women have chosen to be. I love when she says, it's weird the way she says, this is the thing about her, it's all stylistic. I love that she is open about being the breadwinner in her family. What a great role model for women. Like, girls that grow- And her kids, boys and girls, all kids. Children that grow up watching this TV show are less likely, not the little children she wants to show, but that grow up in a world where people say that, are less likely to be the Sonya who can't get over her divorce forever. You know, this is the world we want to live in. But even that, there's something about the way she says it, where it seems more like braggie and weird instead of like self-positive, you know? She has an affectation. She really does. 91% of dog parents say their pup is an important part of the family. And if you ask my mother, the Tobes, Chester, our 17 and a half year old, Chishipoo is her favorite child. And if anyone gets being dog obsessed, it's Ollie. They're relentless about delivering the best food and experience for you and your dog. And they give you a way to check in on their health over and over and over again. There is so much that sets Ollie apart. Ollie's fresh recipes are developed by real chefs and backed by vet nutritionists. We're talking the best meals with the highest quality ingredients. And the experience is curated to your dog. From the moment you start your subscription, everything is tailored for your pup. 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And PS, the sheets have gotten even softer after washing. Upgrade your sleep with Bolin Branch. Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at bolinbranch.com slash andesgirls with code andesgirls. That's Bolin Branch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D branch.com slash andesgirls and use code andesgirls to unlock 15% off. Exclusions apply. And anyway, so Amanda, but I wanted to talk about Kyle because I was thinking about this weird thing. Like, you know, Kyle's had a really strange, the only people I guess, I haven't watched Rhode Island yet, but the only people that could sort of compare to the Kyle experience of the show, where your family is such like, like, like families are so triggering. You know, Teresa and Melissa have gone through the housewives together. Whatever you can say about Teresa or Melissa comparing them to Margaret or Lisa Rinna or, you know, Tamara or Vicki or, you know, Nini, whoever you want, none of those women had to deal with it the way they did with this sort of family dynamic, like playing out, you know? And Kyle has had to do that. And in a strange way, obviously there's been fluctuations along the way in the Teresa and Melissa saga, but basically even me and my years of like loving and defending Teresa, basically Melissa was always just being like kind of victimized by Teresa. I mean, Teresa was just kind of awful to Melissa. Like maybe there were some exceptions, but that's basically how it went down. In a strange way, Kyle, with her sisters, with Kim and with Kathy, Kyle has kind of been the Melissa to their Teresa. It's not a great comparison because obviously Teresa is like Jersey style and like, it's just very different in like Beverly Hills, especially like a very Beverly Hills family, like the Richards girls, like they didn't just like move in from San Bernardino last week, like Amanda, you know, they're like old school Beverly Hills. But still, like those sisters have like been willing to be toxic to Kyle on camera, or at least in the storyline of the season, in ways that Kyle only ever wanted to keep up appearances. All Kyle tried to do was keep the peace for her family, at least as far as the viewers at home could tell, you know? And Kim would just go, you know, partly it was addiction issues, but Kim would just be a mad dog, you know, whatever was bothering her in the moment. She didn't care if it showed their, you know, bared their asses, so to speak on TV. And Kyle and Kathy, while it's been obviously extremely different than Kim, Kathy would be willing to go to situations where Kyle had to like contort to keep the peace. Like Kathy was just like my way or the messy way, you know? And so in Kyle's own family, she's been kind of the Melissa, but then in a strange way, she's like taking it out on other people, especially Dari, kind of like being the Teresa in other situations. Obviously a very different Beverly Hills, you know, not the like table flipper, but the way that she expects this blind loyalty is very Teresa-esque. Like I don't think anyone besides Teresa that I can think of has just been, certainly like the New York girls were never about that. It was like kind of every man for himself, and that was like respect the game, you know? It was like, and what are you gonna do about it? But you know, these shows are, it's like you're on my side or you're against me, you know? Yeah, I mean, Kyle, the comparison with Kyle sort of being a vessel with Kathy and Kim, which was certainly a setup from Big Kathy. I mean, what Kyle trying to keep the peace- We talked about that book, right? I think we talked about it a little bit. But this is, it's been a minute. It's been a minute. And you know you're welcome here every week. You know you're welcome here every week. But the idea of Kyle keeping the peace for the audience, that's very true, keeping the peace for the public, but I do also think when I think of Kyle season one, until that finale, and like Kyle in the seasons at different points in the seasons that follow, I think of someone who put the lens in front of the audience of Big Kathy, of like I need to internalize everything because my mom wouldn't allow me to emote. I wasn't, I was always in the position, which isn't great and is going to result in those fraught very, very difficult moments, a la talking about Kim's alcoholism in an incredibly explosive way that certainly they tried to work through that would come up and nod. And the money stuff too, especially with Kim and with Kathy Jr. really, I think a sense of control. The idea of her taking that out on Dorit, I don't know that I see that as much, but I do understand the Teresa of it all in like great expectations. And I think some of that too is like the OG of it all. And is as you said, maybe the after, it's not like apples to apples or diamonds, but maybe it's like the aftershock of like, look what I went through to achieve my position on this show, you didn't have to do that and or you got to bury your secrets. Even as you said with the Bose comparison about, you know, when Dorit said Bose, it was a friend to me. It's a kind of similar version of that because it's like, what, how can you say that? What I did for you in season four and what I did for you in season six and here's a clip. It's sacrifice. You know, but it's kind of like, okay, but like that's not what we're talking about. The problem here is that Kyle is trying to say, I don't have any anger toward you. What I have is concern, but she's using passive aggressive loaded, medically related language to try to diagnose or just criticize Dorit's behavior. It's worse than that actually, because that actually gives her the benefit of the doubt. Like because let's say someone genuinely only loved Dorit and only cared about Dorit and was only worried about Dorit. And they just had a kind of unevolved background in terms of how they thought about mental health and stuff. And they use these terms, manic or whatever. That could be very triggering and difficult for someone in Dorit's position to deal with and it might lead to friction, but that person might have nothing in their heart, but love and just not know a better way to talk. It's not really what's going on with Kyle. She's constantly, she actually has no room for Dorit to have any feelings. Kyle basically only will tolerate Dorit falling in line. When she and Erica went to talk to Dorit, supposedly about what's going on with Dorit and all that stuff, it's pretty much focused on how Dorit treats her, not how Dorit's actually doing. And it's like, and they don't really hear, now maybe some of the things Dorit says in response are weak responses, but it's not really about grading Dorit's performance if this is all about caring about her. If you really care about someone, even regardless of the language, you would just still act different and Kyle's not doing that. Well, but also relationships are complicated. You can feel many things at once, but the problem is the cast themselves and also production are trying to overly simplify this. And that's not helpful when it feels like we've been through this time and time again, specifically with Kyle and Dorit. And it's just not that necessarily interesting anymore. But you know what I'm thinking though, is Kyle, the reason Kyle keeps lasting is because of her family drama, because even if Kyle seems a little bit of like a villain in all these situations, like with Dorit, for example, if then you're at the reunion and there's some shit with her and Kathy or her and Kim, and you see that look on Kyle's face, when Kyle tears up in conflicts with her sisters, all of a sudden, I don't know about you, but when I see Kyle in that moment- I don't know, it's wrenching. I feel- It's heart-wrenching. You feel this little girl whose family was fucked up, who was in the middle and desperately wanted everything to be okay and was so powerless and so afraid and so just would do anything to make things okay. And when you see that side of Kyle, that's so true on this level that's so much deeper than so much of the crap that goes on in the show. It kind of, and in a weird way, I know it's Kyle's most least favorite moments on the show, like the drama with Lisa Rinna and Kathy and all that. And I know that's horrible for Kyle in the moment, but in a way, it's been Kyle's saving grace because in those moments, it really just, the storyline becomes about Kyle and it's a story. It's not even about being a victim. It's just where we just genuinely care for her. Well, it's the legacy. She has a legacy and I think the show wants to protect it and she has an extraordinary amount of power. I think sometimes people give her too much power in the like, she's a real producer, but she does produce the show. And in a way, it's like they're kind of miming the same behavior a little bit because Doreet, who ordinarily is like from a different planet, has ramped things up to a high level because I think we're all aware she does need this job, which most of these women do, like the money doesn't really match. Who are the ones that don't need the money? On this cast? Obviously Sutton, obviously Kathy. Both friends of. Sutton, Kathy, Natalie, or Natalia, or whatever the fuck her name is. Who, by the way, please don't. Does the splits, we've seen those before. Like it's okay. Sutton, did you say Kyle? Okay, Kyle. Not Erica. Not Erica. Not Doreet. Not Doreet. Just the two. This Bose has money. Bose has shit tons of money. So just Erica and Doreet are desperate for the money. Which like, yeah, most people need to work. Same. It's just they're not on a show where they're supposed to be extremely wealthy. And the thing about Doreet though is like, if I, if like Doreet came to me and said. Can I borrow? I'm going back on the show next year. They gave me a contract, but they told me that I have to do better. Otherwise it'll be my last season. Yeah, but what does better mean? Well, she said, what does better mean? Oh, okay. Ben, you're in charge of everything I do. Like I don't mean to. A Kemsley cabaret. Well, listen. Who's the one that I want to do a cabaret with? Me. No, like I don't know. Like I would like to do Lisa right now. Oh my God. Can she sing it all? Doesn't matter, obviously. Very clearly, doesn't matter. That would be so. Do you have any, well, she didn't send you the book. Well, no, I worked with her. I had her cell number because we did the Giovanni video. The feeling Giovanni video. We filmed at Giovanni. So I texted her when I started my job as programming director at the Green Room 42, thegreenroom42.com. And I was like, hope all is well. Like, I got this job. I would love to connect sometime. If you ever want to do a show, I saw you in Chicago, you'd be so fabulous. But it was a number. Green. It was green and I heard that she had changed her number. Because it was blue back in the day. That would be, that's so important. Lisa Rinna, if you're listening. Exactly. Just been at thegreenroom42.com. If anybody listening, and then I hear from people who are like, you know, but if anybody listening. By the way, I just gave my full email address. I remember back in the day when Sarah's Instagram was private. Do you, that was, that would last years. I said, there's no way under this. I would not, and I, well, I still am very bad at DMs, but I, yeah. I remember we would have conversation battles about it. You used to crack me up. Oh my God, I was so against it. How the world changed. I was like, so is this more of like an invite only podcast? Oh my God, if I had the power. I probably would try to go that route. You know, now I'm very distracted by thinking about Lisa Rinna and Cabaret, which would genuinely be phenomenal. Yeah, I think the performance of it is tough because they are both doing the thing, but sometimes only one part of it is criticized, like your ex is doing too much or why is doing too much and they wouldn't behave this way in real life. Well, I actually don't know how Dereet behaves in real life because I don't know that I've ever seen that Dereet. She came on as like PKs sort of, you know, as an extension of PK in a way where, and honestly, not even extension of PK, but an extension of PK and LVP, where I never really saw her as her own person because she didn't want me to. And now it's like, now we have cigarette era, Dereet, which I love. Love. It's very just be cool. Don't be all uncool. Oh my God, it is so. I mean, obviously it's not. I'm sorry. No, we don't. She's not iconic like you count us. Well, but also we don't want to promote cigarette smoking. But I think we all understand that. I think we all know that Dereet and PK were smoking since. If that's the worst thing you can say about Dereet and PK, babe, you're not going to be a good one. Just quick question before we go on with more aspects of what Dereet should do. What not to be on like a he said, she said of the minutiae, but like with that lunch with Mauricio Mauricio Mauricio, like is she. That was a mess. Like what do you think is the truth? Like. I think it's somewhere in the middle. I think that I do think that PK is very like Lee manipulating things. I think Erica made the very astute point that Kyle doesn't want to understand, which is another issue with Kyle. Her really swaying on PK's side at points unnecessarily because she's thinking about Moe, but PK is going to be very nasty. And that's something that Dereet needs to that. I think she's initially starting to understand. But that scene itself, I think that there's there's Dereet's perspective, PK's perspective. I lean a little closer to Dereet's because she does appear to have been like the very, the primary caregiver for her kids for a very long time. And also Sightbar, her talking about her daughter and like Phoenix having issues on her first day. I was. That tracks. I mean, that's the moment. And that's tough. And like your child, who's certainly been socializing and her kids are beautiful, like hearing that as a parent. Like that's. My parents split up. I remember like I would go to the principal's office and cry like every day. I like didn't want to be in class, you know, it was just I didn't feel home. Didn't feel like the stable, comforting place. So I felt so like unmoored, you know, and it took a while. And yeah, I do believe she's a good mother and I do believe he's not a great father, or at least has been not very hands on. He definitely has been absent, which like what? No, no, just I don't want to like, you know, bring in Boy George, but like, where is this man? But I will say, regardless of even if every single situation between Dereet and Kyle, Kyle's 100% wrong and there's no nuance. I don't believe that. No, no, no, no one does. But I'm just saying, even hypothetically, if that were the case, I still don't really think it's like good TV for Dereet to be in a war with Kyle. I'm not sure why she doesn't just kind of be like, Kyle and I have a different relationship now. She's not my end. I'll be all I'm just going to like do my own thing and like make friends with Bose and like whatever, you know, Benjamin. That's why some of us haven't liked this season, because we said we've seen this before. Yeah. Yeah, she's been doing it again and again. But I so that they've been doing it again. But that would be my advice. Well, but Kyle, I will say in Kyle's defense, it's only really on the reactionary because Kyle just kind of like ignores Dereet until Dereet's like, you're not being good friend to me. And then Kyle's like, is her Kelly, her mini Kelly, is it silver? I can't. No, no, no, I can't. No, no, no, I just want to understand. Is it silver? I know. That's such a choice. Of my eyes glaze over with all the fashion stuff. Like I get that that's like a real thing. We're sitting in the clothists and like that's part of the world and it's part of the appeal of the show and like it's wonderful. And that's why it's successful and it's great. And I'm not a fashion gay. I don't know any of the label names. I don't know about purses. I don't get it. Well, I'm not like a label. I mean, like I'm a shut up. Don't look at the same way from the shoes. Look at the dresses. Well, I don't don't look too closely. But like vintage couture. Very definitely not vintage couture, but they are several of them are vintage. Yeah, I mean, how'd you feel? Writer girl about her book cover party and also people not showing up. OK, interesting questions. So like, yeah, I mean, I suppose a book cover release party is like just the epitome of the fucking like appearance, like superficial world we're living in and like reality TV and like the like Trump of it all. Like we just live in this social media like where we are in society in the timeline is that and like I also celebrity. Yeah, it's just it's all very that it's so like, however, like Dureed has many sins. Let me even say this more specifically. There are many trashy, superficial, flimsy, like vapid things about Dureed, like on a good day. And this just like isn't the worst. And it actually kind of seems like it was more done out of expediency because like the season was wrapping and she needed an event. And like, honestly, like, I mean, they all left to throw shade like writing the book. She's like, you know, like many great artists have co-written their memoirs. You know what I mean? Like Broadway stars, like, you know, whether it's a ghostwriter or a co-writer, certainly the other Housewives have any of them and not had a co-author. Like now, I'm sure Erica Jane had more of an intellectual contribution to her collaboration with Brian Moylan than Dureed will have in her collaboration with whoever the next, you know, her co-writer is. Chad GBT. Yeah, like whatever. Like I'm not saying Dureed is on the same level. I'm just saying like it's a slippery slope. Like really, we're going to rake her over the coals for this. Like I just, to me, that party was like the least of it. I was fine with it. I'm happy. And I liked the Jennifer Tilly approach to it. You know, Jennifer Tilly was like sitting there at the party when saying when she met the publisher or whoever she met, she was like, oh, and aren't you aren't you so glad that you're going to have the chance to like tell your side of thing? You know, that's exactly the right thing to say. You know, and then off camera and then, you know, in her confessional, she's like, well, you know, normally you'd do that at the end of the process, but you know, that's great. That's where she is right now. Let's celebrate it. Like that's the right attitude. So I thought people making the drama over it were a little bit just like, please give the girl a fucking break. That is a very good point about production timing and wanting to get that in. And I'm sure the publisher is thrilled. I assume that they're the ones picking up the check because that looked like a very pricy event. But also this is, I mean, the title of the book is terrible. What is the title again? Unburdened. She's the. Kamala Harris. But the thing is like Kyle said that she's like the most burdened. So. They should change it to the most burdened. They really should. And I do, I think I referenced this on a recent episode, but have you read, um, Belle Burden's book, Strangers? Oh my God, Ben, it's so good. I'm bringing it. I'm going to Rhode Island tomorrow for a couple of days and I'm bringing it to Tobes and there was a part of me that was like, I hope this isn't upsetting because there, you know, it's fully focused on marriage stuff. But it's very good. And it does. I watched her, she did it, the author did a sit down with Oprah, like an hourish long sit down. It's fantastic. And she, Oprah gets into this thing of like, you know, a lot of my friends have been going through this of your relationship breaks up, not because of your choosing, your partner leaves and then, but also the thing with the book that's so great is it really is a guide for people of. Making sure that you have your own financial independence, listening to people, you know, like preparing yourself. She had a financial advisor because she comes from great means, family money, old, old family money, or grandmother was Babe Pally, mom Amanda Burden, like she comes to it from her ancestry's wild. And yet she didn't listen to her financial advisor when her husband to be was spoiler alert, like proposing things that weren't great. And in addition to, will you marry me? And it really is a fantastic guide specifically for anyone, but really for women in those kinds of like heteronormative dynamics where you're in a partnership and, you know, you might make the decision to leave the work force or and or be a stay at home parent, which is entirely fantastic and absolutely, but make sure that you're protected, especially like think ahead. Hopefully the worst case situation doesn't happen. But if you do not protect yourself, if you do not have a way out, and I've seen that in my own life too, like the ability to be able to choose to leave. It's about everything. Your own independence. It can also be about safety. Like it's really a genuinely great resource. And I do also, that's the irony of housewives is the name housewife. And yet so many of these women aren't married or are going through the process of divorce and the even the idea of a housewife in a real housewife has changed, especially because of the introduction to the pop cultures, like guys and everything else. But when you think about that name and that role and that model in relationships, having these kinds of conversations and also looking at the people who are still willfully oblivious, Kyle does not want to go near that and has said as much with a 10 foot pole. She said at one point, I think it was in a prior season. I don't know that she said it in this one. Like I, she still won't read the documents. She has trust in Mauricio, even after seeing what her co-stars have experienced. And it's like putting that kind of blind trust in a partner. Well, I can certainly understand it and appreciate it really genuinely holding on to your own independence and your own belief in yourself can protect you in so, so many ways. Hopefully you don't get divorced and you stay together with your partner forever, but you still have your own center that is separate from this person. And, and people who choose to by way of choice or circumstance, being a stay at home parent, the level of disrespect so often that that is using the word ironically like paid, including when you're going through the process of divorce, like Bell experienced her spouse who she helped support, who seemingly invalidated her contributions to their family every step of the way, including with enormous financial repercussions. And so we watch these stories and it is somewhat interesting and maybe ironic, but also sort of depressing when we see the way that some of these women's lives have drastically changed in a great way. And they may be now for the first time have their own financial independence and attention and fame and success and whatever else, but also understanding that there is still a portion of them like the greater audience that doesn't want to do that work because of maybe fear or what will it mean or whatever else. I mean, that's a conversation I think that will continue, but it's certainly at the, in a huge part framing the dynamic between Kyle and DeRite. And the tough thing for DeRite is when she tries to lob those volleys back at Kyle of like, well, I shop a lot, but you shop a lot, but it's like, Kyle has a lot of money. You don't. So there is a, there is a divide there. Well, it's also just if I was giving DeRite more advice, you know, it's like even because it's not only Kyle, although Kyle is the one that, you know, has been the hardest on her, but it's also like, you know, maybe her response can just be like, look, I'm going through stuff like, you know, I'm doing the best I can. Shopping makes me feel better. Like, I know I spent like too much money, but it really wasn't that much money in the scheme of things. Like P.K. and I are figuring out a lot of stuff. Thank you for your concern. Like, you know, it doesn't always have to be a defensiveness, you know, and it just seems like she's so easily like on a hair trigger for all of them. But I do think that they did the wrong thing by not going to her party. Kyle and Erica. Well, they at least could have, I mean, Erica going out of Rue to tell Rachel Zoe, absolutely need to tell her if I don't tell her that would be terrible and then saying to son, oh yeah, I haven't reached out. Well, that made sense to me. I mean, I feel like Erica was like, she felt like damned if she did and damned if she didn't, because if she reached, she, I think she was correct in thinking that if she reached out to Dorit, Dorit would take it negatively. No, but I thought Erica was saying it was a matter of attending or not, not a matter of reaching out to tell her she couldn't go. No, but, but she said if she wasn't going to go, she was going to reach out. Right. But I think she probably, I think we're going to find out next week that Erica was like, you know, but what's the point of reaching out? Because she's going to be equally as pissed if I didn't go. Yeah, I'm sure. And in fact, we saw that in action because Dorit was not happy and she read out loud, not that their texts were problematic in their own ways. I don't remember what they said, but I'm willing to give the blame here. I'm just saying I don't as polite as it may be in a, you know, etiquette sense to let someone know you can't come to a thing. I think in that situation, it probably didn't actually make it any better. And I kind of think that, you know, if the one I'm most focused on is Kyle. Well, first of all, I think Sutton should have just sucked it up and gone because the truth is that Sutton was the one who got mad at Dorit at Rachel's party. And we all know that Sutton caused that situation between herself and Dorit at that party anyway, because they could have been fine if Sutton hadn't been like used to apologize. But nonetheless, Sutton could easily have just walked in to Dorit's event and been like, you look beautiful. Congratulations. And Dorit would have been like, oh, thank you, sweetie. You too. I'm sorry if we got into a weird place at Rachel's and Sutton would have been like, don't worry about that. I'm here to support you. It would have, that was easy. There was that would have been no problem to skate by. And then I think that in Kyle's situation, it would have been difficult no matter what, because it's so tense between them. But if everything Kyle says is true about the depth and history of their relationship, she should have just shown up as a gesture of support, even if it was awkward between them. Totally. But also they're trying to be punitive. They're getting the person, they're punishing Dorit the best way they know how, which is making her event less interesting with less of them in attendance. Yeah. So, you know, that's shitty. Ben, come back immediately. You have to come. I mean, I assume the finale, where, when is it? Is it next week? It has to be. It's got to be, right? Tell me there's not more. I'm just kidding. I always want more. Of your favorite season ever. I just love reunions. I'm excited for it to be the reunion. I love a reunion. It needs to be, it could have been an email, you know, but it needs to be at least 14 minutes of fun. You need to come back and talk. You need to come back and talk. Please. I beg. Maybe I'll even be able to talk about Rhode Island. You only have. You could do this on your way home. You have two episodes, 44 minutes, Peacock, whatever subscription. You don't even have the commercials. 88 minutes of joy. Actually, the first episode was like 56 minutes, not including commercials. So like you have 98 minutes. No, 100 minutes. You have 100 minutes. Yeah. It's going to, it's so good. And you're a New Jersey guy. You're going to fucking love it. My mom is so upset about it. You know, I've never been to Rhode Island. I mean, I've been through it, but I've never been to it. It's beautiful. They do. My mom is only okay with like the, the, the, you know, the sky shots. And she's like, it looks great, but she has a list of upset about this show, which is very fun for me. Oh, off this. Ben Rimmelauer, tell AGs where they can follow you on social mention at all. At Ben Rimmelauer, R-I-M-A-L-O-W-E-R across all social media. Love that. And, um, follow me on Instagram and threads at Dame Gally. Sign up for the Andes Girls Patreon number one way to support the pod with exclusive bonus episodes, including a 45 minute live reaction to the In the City trailer, a show you're probably not going to watch because you really would need to watch Summer House first. And so the top tier subscribers, thank you, from Bergdorf Goodman. Oh God. And then my second, I remember that was my first pair of fancy shoes. I got very high percent off. And then the second pair was a pair of Chanel's that I got like probably 90% off back in the day when you could get like crazy deals. And I walked into musical theater, um, musical theater program and had, you know, my like performance class and the head of the program told me I looked like a hooker and I said, you're welcome. I think that's the highest compliment. Did I get the part? I did not. Um, listen, thanks to everybody for listening to this episode and to Ben for joining. And we will, did I say patreon.com? Okay, great. We will chat with you soon. Bye.