Life is Lifey with Sarah Shahi

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to By Order of the Faithfuls on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow By Order of the Faithfuls and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today. Hey everyone, it's Emily Simpson and Shane Simpson from the Legally Brunette podcast. Each week we're bringing you true crime through a legal lens. Whether you want all the facts on the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, or you still need to wrap your head around the ditty verdict, we're breaking it all down step by step. And we're not just lawyers, we're also husband and wife. It makes for some pretty entertaining episodes. Listen to Legally Brunette on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by the USDA Forest Service, your state forester and the Ad Council. Okay, guys, I am officially on my high and mighty tour. March 13th, Cleveland, Ohio. March 14th, Columbus, Ohio. March 15th, Cincinnati, Ohio. And then March 20th is Denver, Colorado. March 27th, Portland, Maine. March 28th, Providence, Rhode Island. March 29th, Springfield, Massachusetts. April 10th is Chicago. I'll be at the Chicago Theater. April 11th, Indianapolis, Indiana April 12th, Louisville, Kentucky April 16th is Albuquerque, New Mexico April 17th is Mesa, Arizona April 23rd is Kansas City, Missouri April 24th is St. Louis, Missouri April 25th is Minneapolis, Minnesota April 30th, Nashville, Tennessee May 1st is Charlotte, North Carolina May 2nd is Durham, North Carolina May 6th, I'm doing Netflix as a Joke Festival I will be in Los Angeles. That is a new announcement along with Atlantic City. May 15th, Saratoga, California. May 16th, Monterey, California. May 17th, Modesto, California. And then June 4th, Port Chester, New York. June 5th is Boston, Mass. And June 12th is Portland, Oregon. And then Seattle is June 13th. So suck on that, everybody. Go to ChelseaHandler.com for tickets. Okay, hi, Catherine. Hi, Chelsea. Where in the world are you? Oh, today I'm in Toronto. I had a show last night in Ontario. I had a weekend full of shows kicking off our tour. Well, this wasn't the kickoff. But I had a really fun weekend. Megan Gailey opened for me. Not kickoff, but still early. Yeah, still early. The tour's been so fucking fun, as usual. And we're having a great time. And I'm about to go meet my cowboy at the airport because we're going away for my birthday. Oh, yay. Oh, yay. See, I thought the Jamaica trip was the getaway. This is a different getaway. No, that was his birthday. That was his birthday. Girl, I'm not going to Jamaica for my birthday, okay? That's for someone else. Is it bad to date another Pisces? Is he also a Pisces? No, he's an Aquarius. Okay, well, right? That's probably fine. I don't know much about it. I don't know much about it either. I mean, honestly. But luckily enough people in this world keep telling me about it. Great. So, yes, we're on the beginning of a very big adventure. So I am ready to rumble. Yeah. I'm happy for you. All I've done the last two weeks is watch Olympics, so I don't have much to tell other than it was such a good one. Oh, yeah. The Olympics have been good. It was such a good one. Yeah, it was. There was so much like women supporting women. Did you see the slalom where the Italian woman won and there were two people who had been tied for gold, two women who had been tied for gold, and when the Italian woman won by almost 0.7 seconds, the other two women like came in, fell to their knees, and were like, we're not worthy. We're not worthy. It was such a beautiful moment. I was like, of course women would do that. That was just wonderful. That's nice. It was definitely, definitely great vibes. Great vibes for this Olympics. So many wins. So many exciting things happened. Yeah. It was really, really heartwarming. And a perfect time in our country where we can remind people of the good stuff about America rather than the bad stuff. Minus the fucking U.S. men's hockey team celebrating with Kash Patel like a bunch of toxic assholes. Boo. So minus that part, okay? Minus that part. Honestly, ugh. Also, I just want to add, I have about two weeks off, and then I have March 7th in Vegas, and then I have three shows in Ohio. So I want people in Ohio to know I am coming to Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati. That's March 13th, 14th, and 15th. So I will be back stateside. Amazing. And this is all new material, right? Somebody was asking me. I was like, I think it's all new material. Of course. Of course it's all new material. It's a new tour. Yeah, it's all new. So if you saw her last time, go see her again. Exactly. Anyway, we have a very fun guest today who is from Sex Life on Netflix and The L Word. She's got a new book. It's called Life is Lifey, The A Disease, Navigating Life's Messy Middle. And you can also find her in the upcoming seasons of Hulu's Paradise and the upcoming sequel to Red, White, and Royal Blue. So please welcome actress and author Sarah Shahi. Hi, Sarah. Oh my God. In stereo, all together now. Hi, ladies. Hi, cutie. How are you? I'm well. How are you? Where are you right now? Because that background is heaven. I'm in Whistler, Canada. That's where I have my winter chalet. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Where are you? not in a winter chalet um i'm in the oaks of sherman oh that's so romantic it sounds like something out of hamnet the oaks of sherman by the way i saw you at critics choice and you are so fucking funny i know i'm like the millionth person to tell you that but i was i was so excited to do this a just because i've been an admire for a long time, but especially after seeing you at Critics Choice, I was like, this is just going to be wonderful. Thank you, universe. Thank you. I appreciate that. And you can imagine my surprise when I was reading your book and came across a chapter opening with one of my quotes, one of my favorite quotes of all time, actually. I read it and I was like, oh, this sounds, and then I saw my name. I'm like, this sounds very familiar. That's so funny. I, yeah, you know what? I'm like a walking bumper sticker. I love to talk. in just like a little bite-sized phrases. And I saw your quote and I loved it. And you've been so open about your journey with heartbreak and relationships in the past that listening to you talk about that really warmed me up and opened up a side of me towards you that I hadn't felt before. So I've just, like I said, I've always just followed you. And then whenever I was using quotes and I saw that one and then this came through, I was like, Oh my God, she's my new best friend. I know. I love it. I really enjoyed your book because I think, first of all, it's going to be great for all of our listeners because we have so many women that are listening to this and they're on, a lot of them are married. A lot of them are in marriages that they probably are thinking about getting out of, just taking the temperature of the world that we live in today. So this is a really beautiful book that talks about these changes and how to handle them with grace and aplomb and how not to beat yourself up about the decisions you make. And it's a great, stark reminder that you are the most important person in your universe. And if you don't take care of yourself, nobody else is going to. So like a lot of these themes, I think, you know, I know I've written books that cover a lot of these themes from a, you know, female perspective, but not necessarily a marriage perspective. So I want to talk to you first. I want to talk a little bit about, you know, you talk about leaving a marriage, your ex-husband, you filed for divorce or asked for a divorce, like right when the lockdown started for COVID and you have, and you had three children, a set of twins and another child. So tell us, did that impact your decision? First of all, because obviously when you're thinking about divorce, as you say in your book, you're thinking about it for a long time. It's not something you just blurt out, but when you did blurt it out. I felt such a relief in the way you described your relief. Like if finally you've said it, it's out there. You can't take it back. And it feels so good to just unload. Right. It was like a big exhale. Yeah. You know, it's, it's tough. I feel that there are a lot of unhappily married women out there and we are so used to this rhetoric where we have to come last, where we have to put everybody else first. And if we want something that's larger than the life that we're living, that we should feel ashamed or we shouldn't want that. And for me, having children, this is another thing. It's a lot of people, they stay because of the children and then they get a divorce when the kids are in college. And I've spoken to so many people like that to which they always say, we knew our parents were unhappy. We wish they would have gotten it sooner. Staying in it for the kids, Like you think you're doing the noble thing, but at the end of the day, what are you modeling for your children? You know, it's like wanting to go after the life that I wanted for myself and also seeing what I was modeling for my kids. I was like, this needs to give me strength. And it did give me strength. I pictured my daughter in my situation and I was like, would I be okay if she were living out this version of my life? Would I be okay if my sons were in a relationship where this is how love was modeled and reciprocated? And the answer was no to all of it. So as much as it sucks, as much as nobody gets married thinking about their divorce, it was something that I was like, I owe it to my children to show them a mother who was happy, who was thriving, and who has the guts to go after her dreams. so yeah if anything the kids kind of propelled me into it and you know like you said this isn't a decision that comes overnight the uh the the demise of a relationship is never just one person it's two people and it's you know it's a downward slope for a while so I I tried to use the justification of let me stay in it for the kids or maybe I should do it tomorrow after dinner you know what I mean? It's like you just you try to find those excuses. But at the end of the day, there just comes a point where it's like a switch gets turned on and you're like, I cannot keep doing this to myself anymore. The pain of staying is greater than the pain of leaving. Well, and we do get questions like this a lot from listeners. I think it's almost harder in that sort of situation where it is the slow descent into unhappiness than like he's a monster, right? The decision to leave is much more difficult when it's not a monster. You know, it's just you're not as happy as you could possibly be. And also there's a lot of love there. You know, when you're married to somebody for a long time and you build a life and children and a home and memories and, you know, there's just there's a lot of love and that love doesn't just go away, you know, even if you want a divorce. It just that was the other thing that was really interesting to me to explore when all this happened is where does that love go? Where do the pictures on the wall live? What do I do with the ring? Like all these things that you don't think about right until after the fact. So yeah, I'm happy that I get to sort of share my experience with everybody. Yeah. And I think it's very, I love what you said about the kids because that's everybody's excuse. Oh, we're staying together for the kids. I can't tell you how many people say that to me, men and women alike. And it's like, that's not, you said, if that was happening to your own kid, you would not want them to tolerate that situation or stay in that situation. And I mean, something else that I find fascinating, and I'm sure you did too, being yourself, is that you were filming Sex Life at this time, which was a mega hit on Netflix. I watched three episodes of it yesterday. And the fact that this was coinciding and like the parallel to the character on the show who's unhappily married and kind of reminiscing about, well, not kind of, but totally reminiscing about an ex that she had. First of all, you're having so much sex on the show. So congratulations on that. I mean, what a victory. It's been so long now. I've been single for about a year. I don't even remember how it works anymore. I'm like, do your arms go up? Like, what do you do? But yes, I did have a lot of sex on that show. How fun. Like how fun. It was so much fun. It was, you know, it was one of those opportunities that, you know, it really was lightning in a bottle with that show. And we started filming that show. Let's see, it was COVID. So it was about five to six months after I had filed for divorce, we started filming that show. And as the world knows, I ended up with my co-star. And, you know, the idea for the book really came from the fact that when the show came out, it coincided with the news of my divorce and women from all over the world. Like I didn't, you know, expect to be on this platform, but because of the show's topics and not only was it about a woman finding the courage to go after what she wants, but it was also very sexually empowering for women to speak up. There were so many women that wrote to me and they were just like, I've never had an orgasm before. How do you be vocal? And I was like, wow, that's sad because that's a God-given birthright that we all have to experience this kind of pleasure. Meanwhile, Viagra, something that makes a limp dick hard, just flies off of everyone's tongue. It's everyday vernacular. But if we talk about sex, orgasms, uterus, progesterone, hormonal differences, it's like we have to do it behind closed doors. And I really want to be part of the movement to change that. But yeah, people wrote to me from everywhere, like, how did you have the guts, you know, and also how did you bag the like hot young guy on the show, you know, so it was just a space I found myself in. And I was like, let me put all of this somewhere that it can live. And it can serve as like a Bible for women who want a second act that's maybe better than the first. And I think that's one of the best, best parts of the book is talking about how the second act can be so much more rewarding than the first act of your life, especially if you're a mom with children, especially if you're in an unhappy marriage. I know it's certainly true for me, and I don't have children, and I've never been married. Just really smart decision-making on my behalf. But especially with regard to my personality, like, that just wouldn't have been a good fit. and I can't tell you how much more joyful and confident and happy and the bet the sex that I'm having is so much better than the sex I was having in my 20s it's like yes all women hold on tight I promise you we are here to send a message that life gets better I mean it is kind of hard to take a self-help book seriously from somebody as hot as you so I mean I would say oh wow how people would look at I mean people might think oh wait what does this woman know about and I want to say like, it's like when people say, oh, you're a celebrity. You have nothing to worry about. You're rich. You don't, you know, it's that's none of that matters. We're all going through the same shit. All women are experiencing the same experiences. And I think it's really, it's nice to hear from a whole different spectrum of women about their experience in this life. Yeah. And I also feel too, it's like, you know, I feel like everybody comes to the next chapter of their life based on where they were last. And also childhood trauma. Like I know for me, you know, it's like being single for the first time in my life this last year and also throughout my relationship dynamics, my childhood trauma really played a part in it. I mean, I thought I was healed. You know, I thought I had been through the therapy. I sat with the shamans. I meditated for five hours. I went into the desert like I have no more problems anymore. And it's fascinating the way these issues, you know, and I'm somebody who believes that you attract partners that will help you achieve your highest growth, whether or not you look at it as an opportunity like that and you learn from the lessons is up to you. But being able to look at the impact, my childhood, my abandonment issues, my self-worth, it doesn't matter what somebody looks like on the outside. It really is the inside. And that's why I feel at this stage in my life, and you probably feel this too, it's like you've done so much work. You're so confident. You know your worth. Like, you know how you take up space on this planet and you feel so good about that, that you're not willing to compromise for someone else. And you come to the realization that the right people are going to appreciate that and who you are and who you've grown into, the woman you've grown into. You stop selling yourself and you start realizing that anyone worth their salt will recognize how great you are. You know, like, we're not performing anymore. I'm not performing my personality for a guy that I want to like me. I'm asking myself, do I like you? Right, right. And by the way, the other thing that I've come to is if it doesn't work out or they don't reciprocate, fine. Like it doesn't mean I'm not good or I'm not worthy or I did something wrong. It's just not an alignment. And then you become open for somebody who is in alignment. So yeah, it's just so much more rewarding to be at this space in life than the one before. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground. He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years. I'm like, Lord, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth. For 22 years, only two people knew the truth. Until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Wells Adams with By Order of the Faithfuls podcast alongside my fellow faithfuls and co-hosts Tamara Judge and Dolores Catania. The three of us have been watching this season of The Traitors and we've been inside that castle, so we have insight unlike many others. This season of The Traitors may be the best we've ever seen. Listen to By Order of the Faithfuls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Almost 30 years together, four kids, and some of reality TV's most unforgettable moments, we know a thing or two about living life out loud. We're taking you behind the scenes in our new podcast, Between Us, with me, Heather Dubrow. And me, Terry Dubrow. Between Us isn't about perfect lighting or curated Instagram grids. It's the unfiltered, behind-closed-doors conversations you wish you could eavesdrop on. Equal parts smart, funny, and a little bit scandalous. Every week, Heather will bring you an unapologetic take on the headlines, the trends, and the cultural moments everyone's texting about. And Terry will deliver insider beauty, health, and wellness insights you won't find on TikTok. Together, we'll tell the stories, spill the secrets, and share the hacks that keep life, marriage, and everything in between feeling fresh and fun. We may live in a gated community, but there's zero gatekeeping here. And plenty of, did they just say that moments? Listen to Between Us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Usually on This Podcast Will Kill You, we talk about the diseases, infections, and biological threats that can make us really sick. But right now, we're doing something a little different. We're stepping back and looking at what the human body needs to keep going. When you consider what we know about sleep in humans, there's one rule that comes out. We are predictably unpredictable sleepers. We're talking about why sleep works the way it does, why our bodies don't follow neat rules, and why modern life makes rest so hard to come by. The second half of our series takes us to the digestive system with a multi-part series on what happens after we eat. Okay, I just have to say that all of my favorite words apparently are digestive words. Sphincter, peristalsis, duodenum. It's fascinating, it's funny, and it matters so much more than you think. Episodes of our new series run from January 20th through February 17th with new episodes every Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to This Podcast Will Kill You as part of the Exactly Right Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Something else I really liked was you talking about you know your acting getting offers for the kind of same types of roles and you were kind of over it You like very prescriptive I don want to keep doing this And so you stopped auditioning and you told your agents, like, I'm not doing, I'm not going out for these roles anymore. And you even got offered things that you turned down and said, I'm not doing this. I'm just going to wait until something that is right and that serves me comes along. And I really like, I love that because I think so many people need to hear that. that you have to do things that make you happy in order to have a magnetic attraction to the things that are there that you're supposed to go through in life. Like when you are focusing on the negative, then everything does become negative. And when you choose to make yourself happy by doing the things that make you happy, for me, that skiing, it's reading books, it's spending time with my friends, and it's also getting time alone when I know that I will infect others with my negative attitude if I'm around them, you know, to retreat. Like I've learned all these things about myself that make me a happier person. And you speak about that, like finding out what it is you like about yourself and what makes you happy to do. And in the moments where you're not feeling it, to actually exercise your right to practice the things that bring joy to your life, because that is going to up your frequency and up your vibration. Yes, you are. I feel like you're probably like me in a sense that you believe in energy and frequency. You've used that word a couple of times now. and you know and and and i've done so much research in this space as i i know you probably have too to know that it's not even woo woo it's just pure science it's quantum physics that you will only attract that which you are in the vibrational state of so when you're doing things that make you happy you will continue to attract things that make you happy when you are doing things that you know make you feel sort of less than or not so great you're just going to keep attracting things like that and i did and you know it's interesting because i'm i'm now in this. I know I've said it a couple of times now, like I'm single for the first time in my life. And there was a period of time where I was just like chasing. I was chasing dick. I was just like, somebody tell me I'm hot and tell me I am worth it. I'll tell you you're hot. I'll tell you you're hot right now. And I was constantly and nothing was working out. And it was because I didn't have the self-worth. I was coming from a place of insecurity, not wanting to sit with myself. And when I started, this is another thing in the book I talk about, which is follow your happy. Like instead of putting attention on the things that you don't have, start chasing the things that make you happy. Follow your happy one by one, step by step, even if it means hanging out with your friends, even if it means canceling on your friends in favor of like a night alone, having the extra cookie. Little by little, the past starts to appear. And the things that you want to draw in, the things that are aligned with you, it's just science. You'll just start attracting all of that stuff in. So that's something that I still have to remind myself of to this day. It's gotten easier. But yeah, follow your happy. When in doubt, when you don't know what to do, stop focusing on the things you don't know because you're not meant to know it right now. That's why you don't know the answers. And instead, focus on the things that bring you joy, no matter how small they are. And let's talk about the transitional period. like once you admit to your partner that you want out of the relationship. And I think a lot of people, women especially, get very consumed with that piece. Like, what's it gonna feel like? We're not gonna have a partner. And it's kind of like a scarcity issue more than an actual, like you're not looking at the big picture. You're not looking at six months down the road, you're gonna be so grateful you made this decision and that you were strong enough to make that decision. So I think that transitional period is a real kind of hiccup for a lot of people that they can't get past. So can you speak a little bit about your experience and when things started to feel aligned again and when you started to really feel grateful and happy about that decision that you made? You know, I feel like the reason, you know, people don't speak up or women don't speak up is because we've been conditioned from the time that we're very young to not experience pain or that pain is bad. You know, I talk about this in the book. It's like when you scrape your knee as a child, your mom gives you a double scooped ice cream cone. You put a Band-Aid on it, kiss it, make it better. Don't cry anymore. And so we have this, you know, story running in our minds that we are not supposed to experience pain. So that keeps us from doing the hard stuff sometimes. But as I learned, you know, especially when the most painful thing that I did was get a divorce, was pain is just an emotion like joy. it's just an emotion like happiness or sadness or grief and we don't normalize it enough and we we try to escape it when really the only way out of that is in so each day for me look different one day i couldn't stop crying and i would be playing a game with my children and all of a sudden my cheeks would flush and i would get really really hot and tears would start like prickling in my eyes i'm like what is happening what is happening and i would sit with it and i'm like, okay, what is this? What is this? And it was me mourning. And I had this healer tell me one time, and I thought this was so good. Yes, you're mourning. You are mourning the death of a relationship, right? It is a pure death. It is a loss of dreams. You have to bury, you have to bury all that stuff. But you're also mourning the old version of you that was with that person. And I thought that was so telling because I was a certain person when I was married. And I did have a whole bunch of dreams. And I thought my life was going to turn out differently than what it had. And so a lot of times when I was crying, it wasn't necessarily because I missed the relationship. I know I didn't miss the relationship, right? And we do this thing. I think we romanticize the person when we break up with them. I know I certainly have with all of my exes, where all of a sudden they've got a damn halo on their head and you start to forget all the things that got you to that place. You forget all the things that they did, all the bikes, everything. And you start missing them as if they were this like most angelic presence. And it's like, no, go back, read your journal, talk to your friends. You know, for me, my mom, she remembers every single person who ever did anything wrong to me back to the time that I was in kindergarten. So going back and talking to my mom was like really, really helpful. And it's like, yeah, you know, you don't want them to get hate fucked by a shark. But at the same time, it's like you need to remember how you got there and not just put that aside for romantic amnesia and just allowing each day to be different. One day I was feeling frisky. One day I was like, ooh, maybe I can masturbate. And then I would start crying in the middle of it instead and just have a sore hand to boot. So it was just like each day looked different. And I had to allow myself that roller coaster. I had to allow the pain to come in whenever it wanted because there were times where I thought I was totally fine. And I would be at Gelson's and all of a sudden start crying over the avocados, you know? So it was just like, I had to allow the rollercoaster of emotions. I had to allow for every thought to pass through. I had to allow for it to be hard. I had to allow to miss him. I had to allow these things. And then little by little, it did get better. You know, one of my favorite quotes is give time, time. And just trust that, you know, your heart has been broken. I'm speaking for myself. My heart has been broken so many times in the past only to put itself back together stronger than how it was before. And I just trusted, trusted that it was going to get better. And it did. Yeah. I think a lot of times when we're breaking up or we're ending relationships and we're going through that breakup phase, we are, we are surprised that it keeps coming up. Like we think we've gotten through the worst of it and then it'll hit you. And you're like, God, I thought I was over this. And it's like, don't, that is good. Every time that comes up, you are extinguishing your grief. Like you are getting closer to the end of your grief. Don't fight the grief. Like bring it on, go through it, allow those emotions to happen. Even if a month goes by and you're happy and you've met someone else and all of a sudden it hits you, that's another step in your healing. That's not something to eschew and go, oh God, I don't want to feel any grief. Yeah, you do. You want to feel grief. You do. you do it's a release and the other thing too is it's like you know two things i thought of when you said that one was things are only as important as the weight in which we assign to it i don't know if i if i said that right so it's like if you're experiencing grief grief can be as big or small as you allow for it to be like it's it so so the importance of a feeling like you can be like yeah i'm just really sad today i'm really really sad or you can make that the largest thing in the world so that's the other thing too I think for people to keep in mind is no emotion nothing is as important as the label that we give it and that's really helped me at times be able to take sort of just like a for me to step outside of my emotions for me to zoom out and look at it from a bird's eye perspective and be like okay and the other thing is anytime I I would have those very overwhelming feelings and I experienced this just last year with my with my split instead of making it about the other person and how much we miss the other person and how we wish it could have worked out. Instead of playing the story that makes it about them, I was trying to look at it from a different perspective where I would make it about me. So instead, I would say, instead of being like, oh my God, I miss them so much. I'd be like, oh my God, look at the depths of my heart. Oh my God, look how deeply I can love and how my love makes me feel like I have wings and I can grow and my love is wild and free. It makes me feel like I can do anything. Like, wow. So I would start changing the story instead of it being about them and how much I miss them, about how impressed I was with the depths of my own heart. And that actually helped me a lot just to change the story that was happening in my head. You said this a few minutes ago. You said you're kind of mourning the person that you were in that relationship. And I think that there's a lot of that, but there's also a lot to look forward to the person that you become after the relationship. And that woman is like, is a cause for celebration. Yes, absolutely. You start to experience yourself in a whole new way. All the things in which you put on hold because you were putting the other person's needs first, or, you know, like for example, me, I'm somebody who I'm very flirty with life. You know what I mean? It's like, I like to carry myself. I'm an Aries rising. So it's like, I like to carry myself with a little wink everywhere I go. Doesn't necessarily mean I'm hitting on the person. Doesn't mean I want to sleep with the person. But I will flirt with a woman barista just as much as I will flirt with the hot janitor. You know what I mean? So it's like it doesn't matter to me, right? And I had put that part of my personality aside because it was triggering to people in the past. And I didn't want to do something that felt disrespectful to somebody. So I just kind of buried that part. But now being able to experience my femininity and my sensuality in a way that like isn't shameful. It's just who I am. Like life just feels so much richer to take a luxurious bath and to put on, you know, a silk robe and give yourself a wink in the mirror because you think you're hot. You know what I mean? Like it's just like life just feels so much better to laugh, to just feel that lightness, to explore the things that I want to explore. And I've never had the opportunity to really do this before. So, you know, it really does feel like I'm coming into myself. I'm owning the fullness of myself in a way that I never had the opportunity to. So and that, you know, and that's on me. That's on me for allowing that to happen. That's not the other person's fault. But again, every relationship, every situation comes to teach us something. And I've learned some remarkable things from the men I've been in contact and communication with. And I'm just so very grateful. And how's your love life going these days? Non-existent sister. Do you know anybody? I'm on Raya. For you? Yeah, I do. She will recommend someone for you. I'm on Raya. And, you know, it's like the amount of founders. I'm like, really, what did you find? I know. I know. It's so obnoxious. And people who are just like good vibes only. Or like if I do match with somebody, all of a sudden they text something really weird. Like, I see you like me with my clothes off too and I'm like what the fuck what is that line and then they'll be like what's your number I'm like buddy no too fast too fast so anyway yeah I don't I don't know but I'm just I'm also in a space where I like again like I am not chasing I chased last year when I was very single and same being single was very new and now I'm just like my life is really good. Like, I'm really happy. I'm really happy with my work. I'm really full with my children. Like, I'm traveling a lot. I'm meeting people. And if a relationship comes in and like, you can make my life better than what it is, like, awesome. Like, I am ready, you know? But yeah, otherwise, I don't know. It just feels like a waste of time. Yeah. You have to be an addition, not a subtraction. Exactly. Exploring myself as a single person has made me more excited about love than ever. And like, and I didn't think I would feel that way. Like I was very jaded after my divorce. And then when I got with my ex, I was like, I love you so much. Like, this is exactly what I've been waiting for. I want to be buried on top of you when we die and we can come back as ghosts and hunt people. Like my love felt gothic and like, you know, like deep. And I thought I would be jaded, but I'm just more excited than ever to show because now that I understand the fullness, the wholeness of myself, I'm like, wow, how amazing to be in a partnership where I can show someone my like soft and my fire, like the full extent of my growth and to grow with somebody. So yeah, like I'm just I'm so excited for whenever that happens. It's also just so empowering as becoming a woman and like, you know, getting older and realizing like, you know, your messiness or the things that you aren't so proud of or hadn't been so proud of are okay to be on display. Like you don't have to cover up parts of you. You can actually be a hundred percent who you are. And there is going to be men, not just one man. There are going to be many men who are attracted to that and like your mess, you know? And like we've spent so many years perfecting our image to the man or men that we want to think of us in a certain way. And it's all just completely convoluted and upside down. What we come to understand about ourselves is like, the more you, you are, the more attractive you become. Yes. And the more life just becomes fun. And, you know, and that's the other thing too. It's like, I think about, I think about death a lot, but not in like a morbid way and a way that's like, if I were to look back on my life, like, am I happy with the chances that I took? Or am I going to have any regrets? And that's my thing is, I'm not sure where I got this. But from a very young age, I was like, I don't want to have any regrets in my life. So you know, it's like, I will absolutely jump now and ask for forgiveness later or think later about my choices. But it's like, we're here to have fun. We're here for such a short period of time. It's like, why not just squeeze the juice out of every moment as much as we can. And those that don't align, great. Those that do, great. Like in the end, none of it matters. You know, it's just, just have fun, live your fucking life. I'd like to also say that the section where you quote my, where you use my quote, I had a guy ask me once, are you, you don't have to drink to make yourself more fun to be around. And I told him, no, I'm drinking so that you're more fun to be around. That section is right above sloppy blowjobs. So let's talk about sloppy blowjobs because you talk about the importance of blowjobs. And I have to tell you, for many years in my 20s and 30s, I was so fucking scared to give a blowjob because I did not know how to give a blowjob. And I never gave one to completion. So I was like, I only know how to start. I don't know how to finish. And then my friend who you would never believe who this sport woman is, she's famous. I won't say her name, but she taught me. She sat me down at dinner and we were in London and she's like, Chelsea, let me explain to you how to give a blowjob. And she went through- Did she have like a, like, did you have a device? No, she didn't have a device, but she described it. And it's very analogous to the way you describe it in your book. It's just like lots of slobber, lots of spit, lots of tips, action, acting like you're, you know, just stroking, rubbing, make it as wet as possible. And guys are just like, it's, and once I learned how to do it, I was like, I was so empowered. Not that I wanted- Yeah, you do morning and night. Yeah, because I always had this thing like blowjobs are like, you don't get a blowjob from me. You know, like I had this attitude and it's like, wait a second, I don't care. Like I want to give a great blowjob. Exactly. Like I actually think the blowjob is more for me than it is for them because I've reached a point where I enjoy the person that I'm attracted to. I enjoy their pleasure so much and I'm very confident at it that I'm like, watch this. You know what I mean? So it's like, yeah, open up. Yeah. Like, like many women, you know, it's like I had zero context on what a penis even looked like growing up. And I had and I was a big fan of like dry humping. And so I had a boyfriend. Let me ask you a quick question. Sorry to interject. When dry humping, does someone climax during that in their pants? Is that what happens with dry humping? You know, have you not dry humped? I mean, not in recent times. I think I got off. Well, I haven't in recent times either. But like when I was a teenager, oh my God, my mom is going to kill me. When I was a teenager, I was a big fan of dry humping because, yeah, I would like get off. Like I. Okay. So it's like masturbating over the pants. I think that's the key. Which I did a lot of. You got to be a teenager. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like the jeans would rub the bits in the right place. You know what I mean? Yeah, like a rudder, like a rudder. When you have jeans with a thick seam, that is a good tool to use to masturbate. I will. Yeah, exactly. Or a corduroy. Corduroy is very effective. But yeah, so I had a boyfriend who was older than me and I could tell he wanted more than dry humping. And I was like, OK. And at the time there was this show on HBO. I don't know if you had ever heard of it or watched it called Real Sex. And there was a woman named Lou Paquette, who was like, she wrote a book called The Big O, and she was older than dirt, and she just was like her very own porn star. And she had a class that was in Beverly Hills. And I don't know how I came upon it, but I was like, oh, I need to take this class. So I took this class. There were about eight of us there. We were each handed, there was like a plate, like a fine china plate was in front of us. And when she went around the room, and we each got to pick out our dildos. So everyone got like a respectable six inch dildo full of veins and everything. They were all circumcised. And then she was like, all right, ladies, like let's open up the back of those throats. These dildos aren't gonna jack off by themselves. And she just taught us to desensitize like the gag reflex, taught us like different like hand techniques, really broke down the pain. And I'm a very analytical person. So it's like, for me, it was hard to unleash that sexual side of me if it was just like, because again, I didn't, I was a late bloomer. Like sex was not something that we talked about in my household with my mom. So I didn't understand. And so, but when she broke it down, like anatomically and the veins and the nerve endings and the whole thing, and I was like, oh, okay, now I get it. and then I just love it. I just love it. And the perspective of the book, like again, because the book is for women written through a female lens. It's all about women empowerment. You know, the nights where it's like you could not be bothered with sex, but you know you want to put something out there. It's the nights where the hands of Tom Brady himself would get slapped away. If you can learn to give a good blowie, it's literally your helping hand. You know, it's like the amount of times you can give a good blow job and in like fucking three minutes flat, your husband's asleep, your partner's asleep and you're back to reading your book. Like that's the only thing I care about. How quickly can I get back to my book? So, yeah, it's just like the best thing ever. So I know you say you wanted to live your life without any regrets. When you think about your life now and like present day, what is your biggest regret or do you have one? Chelsea, I don't have one. Wow. I don't have one. The amount of times I have, you know, and I talk about this in the book, the failure and fucking up chapters, like the amount of times I, you know, fucked up, overreached to a guy, got too drunk, cheated, all of those things. I learned something so valuable from those that I wouldn't trade those experiences for anything. You know, it's like I look back on my life so far and every misstep, I am so glad that I took it because it allows me to be the person that I am now. And I really like the person who puts down her head at night. I really like the person who was mothering her three children. I like the example that I'm setting. I like that I'm able to to look at my crazy because I can be fucking crazy and say I'm glad for every chance that I took where I showed my crazy because the right people stayed. And, yeah, I don't have any regrets. I love that. I love that answer. The book is called Life is Lifey. This is Sarah Shahi's new book that's out. And we are going to take a break and we're going to be right back. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. He pulls the gun. Tells me to lie down on the ground. He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years I'm like, Lord, this can't be real I thought it was a mistaken identity The best lie is partial truth For 22 years only two people knew the truth Until a confession changed everything I was a monster Listen to burden of guilt season two on the I heart radio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Wells Adams with by order of the faithfuls podcast alongside my fellow faithfuls and co-hosts, Tamara judge and Dolores Catania. The three of us have been watching this season of The Traitors, and we've been inside that castle. So we have insight unlike many others. This season of The Traitors may be the best we've ever seen. Listen to By Order of the Faithfuls on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow By Order of the Faithfuls and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today. Almost 30 years together, four kids and some of reality TV's most unforgettable moments, we know a thing or two about living life out loud. We're taking you behind the scenes in our new podcast, Between Us, with me, Heather Dubrow. And me, Terry Dubrow. Between Us isn't about perfect lighting or curated Instagram grids. It's the unfiltered, behind-closed-doors conversations you wish you could eavesdrop on. Equal parts smart, funny, and a little bit scandalous. Every week, Heather will bring you an unapologetic take on the headlines, the trends, and the cultural moments everyone's texting about. And Terry will deliver insider beauty, health, and wellness insights you won't find on TikTok. Together, we'll tell the stories, spill the secrets, and share the hacks that keep life, marriage, and everything in between feeling fresh and fun. We may live in a gated community, but there's zero gatekeeping here. And plenty of, did they just say that moments? Listen to Between Us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Usually on this podcast, We'll Kill You, we talk about the diseases, infections, and biological threats that can make us really sick. But right now we're doing something a little different. We're stepping back and looking at what the human body needs to keep going. When you consider what we know about sleep in humans, there's one rule that comes out. We are predictably unpredictable sleepers. We're talking about why sleep works the way it does, why our bodies don't follow neat rules, and why modern life makes rest so hard to come by. The second half of our series takes us to the digestive system with a multi-part series on what happens after we eat. Okay, I just have to say that all of my favorite words apparently are digestive words. Sphincter, peristalsis, duodenum. It's fascinating, it's funny, and it matters so much more than you think. Episodes of our new series run from January 20th through February 17th, with new episodes every Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to This Podcast Will Kill You as part of the Exactly Right Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Sarah Shahi. So you know Sarah from Sex Life. You know her from The L Word. You know her from Paradise, Person of Interest, right? And now she has a new book where she talks about getting divorced, growing into her best version of her womanhood, and living life. I think Living Life Out Loud. I like saying that. Living Life Out Loud. Yeah. Yeah, that's fun. I always wanted to have a loud life when I was little. And I didn't know what that meant other than big. I just wanted a big opportunity and big adventure and to say yes to things that really are scaring, that scared me. And I think that's a big theme in your book as well. I'm like you. I grew up in a small town in Texas where I, from a young age, I knew I wanted more than what my little town was providing me. I knew there was more out there, even though I wasn't exposed to it. So I also was attracted to this idea of just living this larger-than-life lifestyle, and that's what I was meant to do. And, you know, and it's really beautiful because I feel like now at 46, like, I am living that version of my dreams. I love it. We're going to take some callers. Are you ready to give some advice to women? I'm so ready. Let's go. Or gay men. We sometimes have gay men calling. Let's go. I also love it. I love this. Well, our first question comes from Kendra. This one's just an email, but I felt like it was very appropriate for you, Sarah. So Kendra says, Dear Chelsea, I'm a 42-year-old mother of two teenagers who's divorced from their dad. We were in a 15-year unhealthy and sexless marriage. I have a new partner of five years who is so kind, fun, smart, thoughtful, and great with my kids. We live together and are having a commitment ceremony this fall. The problem is our sex life is lackluster at best. I brought this up to him many times, and it seems to fall on deaf ears. At first, he was very offended when I suggested we spice things up and said he was happy with our sex life. He claims I'm just more sexual than him, but I feel so confused. What man doesn't want to have a threesome or do literally anything he wants to me? The relationship itself doesn't feel very sexual. I feel like I'm in my prime and I want to have fun in the bedroom and explore. He's the only man I've been with since my divorce, so two men in 22 years. I'm starting to feel a bit ripped off and I'm wondering if I can live with this type of vanilla sex for the rest of my life. I'm starting to understand why some people have affairs, which is horrible to say and I never would, but I get it. Help, Kendra. Oh, Kendra, girl, I feel your pain. Oh, man. I understand. There are a lot of good things there, but then also you feel like you're not getting your needs met in some way. I wonder in those moments when you did bring it up to him, I wonder if instead of making it a verbal communication, can you just start doing it? Can you in in the act can you just start directing the sex in the direction that you want it to go when he is turned on as well. Like I wonder if that's a possibility if you've tried that or not. And I also feel like at the end of the day the good has to outweigh the bad. And I don't know your relationship other than the fact that he sounds like a very safe warm presence. which is beautiful but I'm also somebody who this is me personally speaking I I don't believe in lack and I do believe that there is somebody out there that can check all those boxes I'm not telling you not to have your your commitment ceremony but at the same time I do think uh you have to really get quiet with yourself and ask yourself, is this about the lackluster sex or could this lackluster energy also be translating into other areas? Like, is it just about the sex isn't fun or is this a person who could be missing some kind of that vitality in other areas as well, but maybe you just notice it more in the sex? And is that something you can live with? I think when you have these kinds of concerns before you're in a serious, like you're about to make a commit, you know, have a commitment ceremony. I think these kinds of concerns, like if you're a sexual being and his reaction to that isn't, oh my God, let's fix this. Let's get this figured out. Let's, let's work together. Let's get a sex therapist or let's figure it out together alone. Like what can I do to make you more, give you more pleasure or be more sexually active or initiate whatever your things are like, if someone isn't open to that, I don't think those things get better as you stay together. I think that, you know, commitment leads to laziness a lot in relationships. And I'm not saying this is applicable to every relationship. I just think things become easier and you get used to someone and you try less and you don't try as hard. So if that's an issue for you now, and you are a sexual being, and you're talking about potentially thinking about an affair, like then if you're if you want to go and have an affair and do that and you're okay with that then do that but if you're not which it sounds like you're not then you should really think about making a commitment to this person because that is a major sex is a major component of a relationship for so many people not for everybody it doesn't sound like it is for the guy that you're you know committing to but exactly but for a lot of us it is important for me that is the number one thing. Like I am there for sex. It's not the number one thing. Sorry, but it's up there. It's like the top five things. It's like when the sex is not good, it's like when the sex is not good, the other problems become so much more heightened. So it is an important part of the dynamic. And Chelsea is right. It's like if there are signs already, like those red flags only get redder after marriage. You know, they don't go away. And you should be in a relationship where you can talk about the hard things and it's received with curiosity and interest. And, and, you know, I understand if you are criticizing a man's, you know, sexual appetite, how they might at first get a little flustered by it. But at the end of the day, like if there isn't that interest to get on the same page, maybe he doesn't want to do a three-way. Maybe his answer would be something else, you know, but you're right, Chelsea, like the, the interest to explore together should be there if this is a man that you're going to make a commitment to. Yeah. Yeah. And I think take steps. Like, do the therapy Chelsea talked about. And also, like, get his levels checked. Because this could be something as simple as, like, he's got some low T going on or whatever. Yeah, that's true. And his libido is low. Yeah. So, like, but I do like what you say, Sarah, about, like, he should be responding with curiosity. But, like, just take all the steps. Like, see what you can see. See if it's fixable. And if it's not, then you've got, you know, some decisions to make potentially. Yeah. And don't ignore the fact that you're second guessing right now. Like that's a part of you. That's your higher self. That's somehow that's communicating to you. So don't brush it under the rug thinking it's going to go away because it won't go away. Right. As a 50 year old woman, like your sex drive only increases as you get older. So if you're already somebody who is interested in sex, it's going to get more and more. You're going to be more and more interested. it so I've changed my underwear a couple times a day and I'm not and I'm not even with anybody so and I'm older than you Kendra oh my god I gotta send that to my friend Ange she doesn't wear underwear and I was like listen you that is so she goes why I go because I need Annette to catch whatever is coming out she goes what's coming out I'm like all sorts of stuff what are you talking about nothing's coming out of your vagina into your underwear I'm like she's like I don't see anything. I'm like, that's because it's on your jeans. You're so disgusting. Oh my God. But I mean, yeah, there's things guys coming in and out of our vaginas, hopefully more in than out. But listen, that's what happens. That's hilarious. It's natural and it's nature. Yeah. And it's beautiful. I love it. It's beautiful. That's a great way to look at it. Yeah. Well, our caller today is Wyatt. He says, dear Chelsea, a month ago, my relationship of nearly three years ended. I pride myself on my intuition, but what often gets in my way is empathy, giving people the benefit of the doubt, especially those I invest deeply in. My ex and I had a 19-year age gap. I'm 29. He's 48. Unconventional, but it worked in many ways. As the child of a therapist, I'm emotionally self-aware and have spent years working on myself. Over time, it became clear that my partner wasn't at the same level of emotional development. I've learned to meet people where they are without judgment and show up fully. He came out at 26 after growing up Catholic and nearly becoming a priest to avoid being openly gay. Knowing this made me patient with his struggles around communication, commitment, and unhealthy patterns like alcoholism. I saw him fully and still chose him, even knowing I might deserve someone who had already worked through those issues. Throughout the relationship, there were repeated instances of him flirting with other men online, emoji reactions, compliments, messages. I raised this many times. He insisted it wasn't cheating, framing it as a self-esteem issue and a need for validation. Despite my gut telling me it wouldn't stop, I stayed. Then I went against my own rule and looked at his phone and saw nude photos from someone who was, quote, just a friend with my partner actively flirting back. Now here I am, heartbroken but clear that something wasn't right. I'm grateful for any advice you can offer on how to get past the cheating and more importantly how i can stop my sense of empathy from allowing other people to mistreat me in the future thanks for the clarity humor and guidance you provide to people navigating uncertainty it truly matters wyatt hi wyatt hi hi wyatt hello so lovely to meet both of you i like that you're standing up like an audition like oh i'm sitting down oh you are okay i was like is this a mugshot i didn't know what was You have a very long torso. Yeah, you must be very long-waisted. It's actually a short torso, so I'm glad it's all framed well. Oh, perfect. It's the framing. The framing is helping. You look like a giant. You are a giant. I love it. This is our special guest, Sarah Shahi, obviously. So first of all, you ended the relationship when you found those photos on his phone? It was an ending out of anger. And in the moment of ending it, we had met about 10 days later to actually like discuss in a healthy manner of conversation, which really wasn't a conversation. It was just him deciding he didn't want to be in a relationship. So that's kind of how it ended. To me, it was more of a discard rather than a let's figure this out or what the next step forward is. Right, right. Well, first of all, it's great news that that relationship has ended. It may not feel great in this moment, but you're going to be grateful as you move through your life and heal from this, that that person, it's not a match. You don't want anyone that's being deceitful or that's looking at nude pictures online. Like that's not what you're looking for. You're looking for honesty, openness, transparency, right? Yeah, exactly. So I think, I mean, we're just talking about this. Sarah just wrote a new book. It's called Life is Lifey. The A to Z is navigating life's messy middle, which is on the subject matter of breaking up and new beginnings, kind of owning your own power. And so while I understand you're hurt and you're disappointed and you're heartbroken, like these are all tools that are going to bring you closer to a person who is going to appreciate you and is going to understand you. And by moving on through this relationship and out of this relationship, there is going to be a rebirth. There's going to be a new version of you that you can look forward to getting to know. And that's the most exciting thing about breaking up that no one ever tells you, is that you are going to bloom and blossom in ways that you did not know. That's just the way the world works. You're not going to sit here and wallow in self-pity or be upset for years and years and years. That's just not going to happen. You're going to meet other people. You're going to be interested in other people. And I think the most crucial thing to do is to really not try to push any of it away. Just experience the breakup. experience the loss, the grief, welcome it. You know, they say like, if you allow yourself to cry and be in pain, it lasts for like 90 seconds and then it's over. And it's kind of true. I mean, maybe it's less than 90 seconds. It's something small like that. It's not over for good, but you move through that, you know? So my, my advice to you is to not resist the moment that you're in and resist the reality that you're in, but to look at it with open arms and have an attitude of love. Like you don't have to be angry at that guy or your ex. You don't have to be mad at him. You have to just learn to understand that certain people aren't meant for us. And it's a gift when we are separated from them, even if it's from the other person doing it. It is a gift. It's getting you closer to your real happiness. And maybe that happiness involves you spending some time alone so that, you know, getting to really sit with yourself and making sure that you're looking for any of those red flags the next time. You know what I mean? So you're not making the same kind of choices twice. I think that is the best, like, advice in life is to try not to make the same mistake twice. It kind of redirects what you're willing to tolerate, you know, from different people. It's like, I don't want to have that. I dated an asshole once. I'm not saying your guy was an asshole, but I dated an asshole once. I didn't want to ever date an asshole twice. And I haven't, you know, I've dated different kinds of assholes, but never the same type of asshole, you know? And like, I like to look at that. I like to look at life through that lens. Like it's, if something doesn't work out great, that won't happen again. The next time I'm going to find some, you know, I'm going to find something different or I'm going to find something that does work out. So I would, my advice would be that is to just sit in this moment and, you know, talk about it when you need to talk about it. Hire a therapist if you don't have one already to help you work through it and also develop better. Like, I don't want to insult your judgment because it's not about your judgment, but you have to know exactly what you're looking for. So like Sarah, we've been talking about this, like getting to know what you need, what you want, how to be your most authentic self so that you're attracting the type of person that respects that, recognizes it and likes it, you know, and wants to be with you. And that all, all that work is kind of what has to happen after each breakup. Yeah, no, I fully agree on all of that. First of all, Wyatt, I'm so sorry for your heartbreak. Like, I know it sucks. And Chelsea said so many incredible things. And I can tell that you are an incredible human and you have this light that radiates through your audition looking frame. But on top of everything that Chelsea said, which is so true, there's a couple of things I thought of that I want, I would love for you to think about. You said that you can meet people where they're at. Per my experience, you can only meet people as deeply as they've met themselves. And it doesn't sound like, and it doesn't sound like your ex has met himself very deeply, even though he is, you know, 20 years older than you. I'm sure the relationship gave you a lot of wonderful things to think on, learn, chew on. And the other thing I wanted to say is, God, Chelsea, you said so many good things. Just because you are good for somebody doesn't mean they are good for you. so to speak to the part of you that feels because because i'm i'm very much like you my heart is so soft and i have you know when you're an empath you have so much empathy for the other person you can rationalize their bad behavior and it makes you soft and it makes you want to forgive and it makes you want to take them back but her the work that i've done and your mom is a therapist So you might be doing this stuff already. What I learned is that that that's not empathy. That's me trying to prove my worth to somebody. My father left when I was very young and I spent a large portion of my young adult life trying to prove. And I thought I was the reason why he left. Like I thought I wasn't a good enough daughter. So every time he came back, I would be like a cat in between his legs, like trying to purr on him and sit on his lap and just do whatever I could to make sure he didn't leave again. Because if he picked me, I knew I was worthy. So I started imitating those same patterns in my relationships. And I would have partners like that would leave. And I would, again, this is because I want to prove because there's a story in my brain that in order for me to be loved, I have to prove that I am worthy, that I am good enough. So I would start doing that stuff and I would not have any boundaries. I would let the person cheat on me, throw things at me, push me, spit in my face, do whatever. And then they would come back and apologize. And because I was like, yeah, I can understand. Yeah, okay. Well, they were really drunk or they were high or yeah, you were just angry. And you know, I'm going to allow for you to be who you are. I would accept that. I would accept it when it's like, no, because those things, I don't deserve to be treated like that. Nobody deserves to be treated like that. Or I should say, that's not the type of relationship that's for me. Maybe it's for somebody else. They enjoy that kind of thing. That's not what I'm looking for for my nervous system. and at the end of the day, I think you should be, you know, not that I'm trying to sit here and sell a copy of my book, but hey, why not? If you can, I do talk about like marriage and breakups and all that. Well, I know you guys weren't married, but just breakups in the book and your life is going to open up in so many marvelous ways. Like this man did you a favor. He did you a favor. So if anything, it's like, bless him, send him on his way. And anytime you have those feelings, like Chelsea said, let them come out. That's beautiful. That just shows you the depths of like your love. So, and, and as often as you can try to turn it back to that, as opposed to being like how much you miss him, make it more about yourself and what a beautiful human you are and how much you're expanding. Yeah. And that's something that, you know, we were just talking about that Wyatt, before you were on is just when you get heartbroken or you get your heart broken, your heart comes back together. The pieces come back together and it makes a stronger heart. Like you become stronger and you become, I just want to circle back because you were talking about empathy and being an empath and like, don't confuse empathy with codependency. Like those two things are very close together. So when you're being so empathetic that you're allowing behaviors to exist because of what they've been through without having your own standards and boundaries in place, then that's a codependency. That's just allowing behavior and working around someone else's problems, and they're not working around yours. So for you, your next relationship, I want you to focus on having an equal relationship where you're both equally caring of the other person. And it can be imbalanced at times, but overall, when you look at like a spreadsheet, you both have to be putting in the same amount of effort towards each other and towards understanding, like caring, thinking about the other person, wondering how they're doing. It can't be once it can't be lopsided because that just develops into a codependency. And it's like bad, bad habits. And those are hard to break after you develop them. Yeah. And then one more thing that Chelsea just reminded me of too. I hope this is all helpful. No, it's 100% is. Okay. Okay. And when Chelsea was talking about bad behaviors and choosing differently in the future I had a partner actually teach this to me and I thought this was brilliant When someone makes a mistake right They do something that is clearly not right okay Or doesn't work, whatever. However you wanna label it. That can be an accident, okay? I did this, it's an accident, I'm sorry. It's not going to happen again. That can be labeled as a mistake. When it keeps happening, when it's repetitive, that's no longer an accident that's who they are that is chosen behavior and that is who they are so and then there's that great you know i don't remember if it was oprah or maya angelou who said it but it was like when people show it was maya angelou when people show you who they are believe them yeah you know exactly yeah so if you take everything we said wyatt like you have a lot to look forward to. So be gentle with yourself in like getting through this period and then get excited about what the future has to offer. You're 29 years old. You're going to fall in love probably a few times. You haven't even suffered twink death. You look great. Thank you so much. Yes. Like if this is what your torso looks like, I can only imagine the second half. So like it's all downhill. Buddy, you are you are good to go, my friend. that's so sweet thanks for calling in Wyatt of course thank you for the time and the space to listen yeah of course aw what a sweetie I know so sweet Wyatt you guys gave such good advice to him he's going to do great he's going to flourish well let's take a quick break and we'll be back to wrap up okay and we're going to take a break okay we are taking a break I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground. He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years. I'm like, Lord, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth. For 22 years, only two people knew the truth. Until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Wells Adams with By Order of the Faithfuls podcast, alongside my fellow faithfuls and co-hosts, Tamara Judge and Dolores Catania. The three of us have been watching this season of The Traitors, and we've been inside that castle, so we have insight unlike many others. This season of The Traitors may be the best we've ever seen. Listen to By Order of the Faithfuls on America's number one podcast network, iHeart, Follow by Order of the Faithfuls and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today. Equal parts smart, funny, and a little bit scandalous. Every week, Heather will bring you an unapologetic take on the headlines, the trends, and the cultural moments everyone's texting about. And Terry will deliver insider beauty, health, and wellness insights you won't find on TikTok. Together, we'll tell the stories, spill the secrets, and share the hacks that keep life, marriage, and everything in between feeling fresh and fun. We may live in a gated community, but there's zero gatekeeping here. And plenty of, did they just say that moments? Listen to Between Us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Usually on This Podcast Will Kill You, we talk about the diseases, infections, and biological threats that can make us really sick. But right now, we're doing something a little different. We're stepping back and looking at what the human body needs to keep going. When you consider what we know about sleep in humans, there's one rule that comes out. We are predictably unpredictable sleepers. We're talking about why sleep works the way it does, why our bodies don't follow neat rules, and why modern life makes rest so hard to come by. The second half of our series takes us to the digestive system with a multi-part series on what happens after we eat. Okay, I just have to say that all of my favorite words apparently are digestive words. Yeah, sphincter, peristalsis, duodenum. It's fascinating, it's funny, and it matters so much more than you think. Episodes of our new series run from January 20th through February 17th with new episodes every Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to This Podcast Will Kill You as part of the Exactly Right Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Sarah Shahi. Her new book is called Life is Lifey, The A to Z's Navigating Life's Messy Middle. And you can also find her in the upcoming seasons of Hulu's Paradise and the upcoming sequel to Red, White, and Royal Blue. Okay, what do we have to close this out today, Catherine? I mean, I do have a quickie if you're ready for a quickie. Sarah, do you have a minute for a quickie? Yeah, what's a quickie? Like a write-in without a person on the screen. Oh, I was like, what are we doing, ladies? Yeah, like not a very complicated question. Just a quick blowie. We just need you to demonstrate a quick blowie on your dildo at your house. I didn't see this on the emails. We'll finish up with our one drink question, which is, dear Chelsea, last year for her birthday and Christmas, our niece's response to our gift was, let's just say, less than enthusiastic. Plus, she made a rude comment. She's nine. We didn't say anything to her, but later my husband talked to his sister and let her know that her daughter's lack of gratitude and rude comment hurt. His sister did not take this very well. She thought we were attacking her parenting rather than asking for her to teach her kid to give a polite thank you. His sister has asked us not to give her children presents and told us they wouldn't even notice if they got gifts from us or not. Last time we saw them, his sister was chilly. We have a family event coming up. Should I address this with her? Thanks, Sissy. I mean, well, it's obvious where she got her manners from. I mean, her mother. That's exactly what I was thinking. Like, what the fuck? First of all, please and thank you are the first two phrases you should learn. Please and thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I have a thought. Chelsea, do you have a thought? You go ahead because you're a mother, I always have to think things through because when I don't have kids, I have to think about what the right thing is. You go first. Okay. And by the way, I appreciate that because the amount of times people without, you know, kids want to just give their advice like it's the facts. So I appreciate that you have that awareness. I would say, what are you looking for? What would your intention be for bringing it up? Are you looking to resolve something or get a different way of behavior out of her? Or are you wanting to just express something from yourself? So I would get really clear on what your intention is if you did bring it up. If you're bringing it up to try to adjust her behavior, I'm not sure if you would be successful at that. And if anything, you might just create a really bad situation for everybody. Whereas if you just chose to be neutral, maybe the energy would be a little bit better. But if it's something you feel like you need to say regardless of what her response is, I am more aligned with that kind of stuff because then it's for you. It's not because you're trying, you don't have an expectation of the other person. So that's a tough one. But again, I'd be like, if you're looking to change her behavior, I don't know if it would be worth it. But if it's something. I just based on your last interaction or the last interaction when she was confronted with her child's behavior, it doesn't seem like she's in a place or a state of mind to take that on like or to have any accountability for why her she's obviously embarrassed that her daughter act like that. And instead of admitting that she's covering up for it and defensive, like, oh, yeah, that she doesn't need gifts from you. Like that's that's an even more childish thing to say than what the daughter said, you know, by by not showing gratitude. But also, you know, like just great. Don't get her any more gifts. The girl doesn't know how to say thank you. She won't get any more gifts from you. And that behavior is going to surface and resurface and resurface. Like she's nine years old. It's not going to get, it's going to get worse before it gets better. If it does get better, but it's going to happen again in some rude way. She's going to be rude in some other way. And I guess what I would say is not to address the issue unless it's a birthday situation and you don't bring a gift. And then you can be like, you told us not to give her a gift. She doesn't, you know, you said she wouldn't care. Like, I would only bring it up if it's pertinent to what has happened. But this is going to recur with her, with the girl and the mother. Yeah, this isn't the last time the mom is going to hear this either. So I think you're going to have other opportunities. instead of focusing on something that transpired a while ago, why don't you wait for the next opportunity and then bring it up in the moment? There you go. So you're not harping on anything, you know? So that would be my advice. Yeah, don't say anything now. Wait it, wait, wait it out, and it will reveal itself again. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpwright became the victim of a random crime. He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground. He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years. I'm like, Lord, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth. For 22 years, only two people knew the truth until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. podcasts. your podcasts. and a little bit scandalous. Every week, Heather will bring you an unapologetic take on the headlines, the trends, and the cultural moments everyone's texting about. And Terry will deliver insider beauty, health, and wellness insights you won't find on TikTok. Together, we'll tell the stories, spill the secrets, and share the hacks that keep life, marriage, and everything in between feeling fresh and fun. We may live in a gated community, but there's zero gatekeeping here. And plenty of, did they just say that moments? Listen to Between Us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Usually on This Podcast Will Kill You, we talk about the diseases, infections, and biological threats that can make us really sick. But right now, we're doing something a little different. We're stepping back and looking at what the human body needs to keep going. When you consider what we know about sleep in humans, there's one rule that comes out. We are predictably unpredictable sleepers. We're talking about why sleep works the way it does, why our bodies don't follow neat rules, and why modern life makes rest so hard to come by. The second half of our series takes us to the digestive system with a multi-part series on what happens after we eat. Okay, I just have to say that all of my favorite words apparently are digestive words. Sphincter, peristalsis, duodenum. It's fascinating, it's funny, and it matters so much more than you think. Episodes of our new series run from January 20th through February 17th with new episodes every Tuesday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to This Podcast Will Kill You as part of the Exactly Right Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sarah, I just wanted to recognize the fact that you're Iranian and Persian and ask you if you have any family in Iran right now. I have a lot of family. I have a lot of family. My uncle actually got shot a couple weeks ago. he was caught in the crossfires and they had a really hard time getting him in the hospital. He's fine. They were able to get the bullet out. He was driving to work. And yeah, it's really awful. And I pray for the situation over there to change. Growing up, being Persian is something that was always looked down upon. You know, I think the outside world believes that the Iranian citizens are like the government and that every Persian is a terrorist. And there was always this stigma around it. But I really, really hope and pray that situations change, things change over there, and the world can get to know Iran and its people for the beautiful citizens that they are. It's such a rich culture. It's such a diverse culture. It's like deeply immersed in poetry and beauty and songs. And, you know, even there are no history books, even the history books that reflected the beauty that Iran had, even those have just been erased. So yeah, it's tough. I talk about it with my family every day. We don't really have a way to get in touch with anyone over there. It's pretty sad. And I'm just praying for a miracle. Yeah, yeah, I am too. I am too. It feels like the whole world needs a miracle. We need a, like, all the systems feel like they're about to break, you know? Yes. And I just, I, and, you know, and the people over there, they're so desperate. They have nothing to lose anymore. You know, it's like my, I have a lot of family over there, aunts and uncles. They can't afford electricity. You know, they can't afford food. I mean, inflation is so high. It's like if you want to go out and buy a chicken, it's like $100. You know, it's just, it's insane how little these people have. And that's why they've just taken to the streets now because they're dead anyway. There is nothing to lose anymore. But they need help. They need help if they're going to instigate any kind of change. yeah i know it's like i mean yeah that's a whole other political conversation exactly exactly one in which you know yeah we don't get into but i really just pray that uh in this time of upheaval you know that the analogy of things needing to break down in order to rebuild better i really hope that that applies yeah for everybody i yeah i think so i wonder i i think that's true i i wonder how many years that takes, you know, like, is it going to happen in our lifetime? Or is this going to be a hundred year thing? Like, are we going to see the change? We, we need to go. I read this really interesting thing on, on Instagram this morning. It was a quote about how we were a matriarchal society for 250,000 years. And for the 10,000 years that we've been a patriarchal society, shit has hit the fan and we've had more wars. We've had more like, you know, just depravity, especially in light of all the news circulating right now. It's like we are in a situation where women have taken like a second class citizen role at the expense of humanity. Yes. And I and I really think that, you know, going back to the themes that we talk about, too, it's like the reason why that has happened. And that's this is important for every woman listener of your podcast and your platform to know is because we are so strong. We are the creators. The universe made us the creators for a reason. Societies from the beginning of time have been so intimidated by the natural power that women hold. And it's just important for us to remember and do whatever we can, big or small, to help tip that scale. Yeah. And it was comparing societies to like all animal societies. You know how they're like the male lions ousted out of the group because he's not helpful. You know, like all of these. But it's true. Like it's all matriarchal and animals, elephants, lions, like all of it. They're just like, you guys aren't allowed to be here. You're violent. You're scary. And you're brawny. But don't confuse brawn. Like that's for labor. You know what I mean? That's not for running societies. So men have made such a mess of things. I think like, let's just get all of them out of power and it's time for women to have a turn. And let's just see if we can turn this around. I think we can. Yeah, and I love men. You know, I'm not sitting here as a man hater, like Samus. I love men and I think there's a very important role for them to play. But the tips of the scale of masculinity has become so unhealthy that we need to find that balance again. Sarah, loved hanging out with you. So much fun talking to you. You as well, Chelsea. Thank you so much. This has been such a privilege. It was so fun. And the book is called Life is Lifey. The A to Z's Navigating Life's Messy Middle. So please grab yourself a copy. And I hope to see you in person at some point, Sarah. I hope so too. I hope so too. Yes, we'll be dripping in all kinds of goodness. Yeah, we'll practice our blowjobs together. That'll be something to look forward to. That would be fun. That would be fun. Take care. We'll switch tips. Okay, great. All right. Bye, ladies. Thank you so much. Have a great day. Okay, guys. I am officially on my High and Mighty Tour. March 13th, Cleveland, Ohio. March 14th, Columbus, Ohio. March 15th, Cincinnati, Ohio. And then March 20th is Denver, Colorado. March 27th, Portland, Maine. March 28th, Providence, Rhode Island. March 29th, Springfield, Massachusetts. April 10th is Chicago. I'll be at the Chicago Theater. April 11th, Indianapolis, Indiana. April 12th, Louisville, Kentucky. April 16th is Albuquerque, New Mexico. April 17th is Mesa, Arizona. April 23rd is Kansas City, Missouri. April 24th is St. Louis, Missouri. April 25th is Minneapolis, Minnesota. April 30th, Nashville, Tennessee. May 1st is Charlotte, North Carolina. May 2nd is Durham, North Carolina. May 6th, I'm doing Netflix is a joke Festival. I will be in Los Angeles. That is a new announcement along with Atlantic City. May 15th, Saratoga, California. May 16th, Monterey, California. May 17th, Modesto, California. And then June 4th, Portchester, New York. June 5th is Boston, Mass. And June 12th is Portland, Oregon. And then Seattle is June 13th. So suck on that, everybody. Go to ChelseaHandler.com for tickets. If you want advice from Chelsea, write in to Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail.com. Dear Chelsea is a production of iHeartMedia. Follow Chelsea on all socials at Chelsea Handler and find Catherine on TikTok at Flash Kadabra. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brandon Dickert, executive producer Catherine Law. Find full video episodes and minisodes now on Netflix and get tickets to see Chelsea live at ChelseaHandler.com. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpwright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to By Order of the Faithfuls on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow By Order of the Faithfuls and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today. Hey everyone, it's Emily Simpson and Shane Simpson from the Legally Brunette podcast. Each week we're bringing you true crime through a legal lens. Whether you want all the facts on the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, or you still need to wrap your head around the ditty verdict, we're breaking it all down step by step. And we're not just lawyers, we're also husband and wife. It makes for some pretty entertaining episodes. Listen to Legally Brunette on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. by the USDA Forest Service, your state forester, and the Ad Council. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.