Megan Fate | Girls Gone Bible

Guys, have you ever been in a relationship and kept having unwanted doubts like, do I love them enough? Am I really happy? What if God has someone better for me? And those questions felt impossible to ignore and suddenly you're repeatedly praying for certainty or signs, constantly comparing your relationship to others, asking friends what they think over and over. But you can't find peace no matter what you try. Unwanted relationship doubts can feel so real and scary. But here's what's important to know. Just like these can be a sign of relationship OCD. Unlike the stereotypes about being organized, real OCD is a serious condition that can latch on to anything we care about. Relationship OCD creates this never ending loop of doubt and anxiety followed by behaviors you do to try to feel better, but the relief never lasts. But OCD doesn't have to take over your relationships because it's highly treatable with a type of specialized therapy called exposure and response prevention or ERP. And that's why we want to tell you about NoCD. NoCD is the world's leading OCD treatment provider and all of their licensed therapists specialize in ERP. Therapy with NoCD is 100% virtual, covered by insurance for over 138 million Americans and includes support between sessions. Their therapists are extensively trained, deeply understanding and ready to help you reclaim your relationships. If any of this sounds like you or someone you care about, visit nocd.com and book a free 15 minute call to learn more about how NoCD can help. That's NOCD.com. One of the cutest things that I get to do with my niece is getting her Haya. When we got her her first Haya bottle, before anything she was so excited to decorate it. Like fully focused, picking up the stickers, deciding where everything goes, it turned into this whole little moment. And I think that's what we love about Haya so much. It doesn't feel like it's a take your vitamin moment. It feels like something that she was actually excited about. And then after that, it just becomes easy. No convincing, no back and forth. She actually enjoys it. Which if you've ever been around kids, you know that's not always the case. And what stood out to us about Haya is that it's thoughtfully made. Zero sugar, no gummy additives, just clean ingredients and something kids will actually take. And here's something every parent needs to hear. If getting your kids to eat vegetables feels like an impossible daily battle, Haya's new kids daily greens and superfoods is a total game changer. It's basically just chocolate milk stuffed with veggies. It's a greens powder designed specifically for kids that's packed with over 55 whole food sourced ingredients. This makes one scoop with milk or a milk alternative and watch them actually enjoy something that's secretly fueling their growing bodies. We've worked out a special deal for Haya for their best selling children's vitamin. Receive 50% off your first order. To claim this deal, you must go to HayaHealth.com.GGB. This deal is not available on their regular website. Go to H-I-Y-A-H-E-A-L-T-H.com.GGB to get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults. To display the love of Jesus. God we love you, we bless your holy name. Hi, I'm Angie. And I'm Ari. And this is Girls Gone Bible. We are a faith-based podcast where we talk all things spirituality, mental health, the Bible. And today we have such a special guest. There is a massive story behind this meeting, this friendship. We have Megan Fate Marshman, our friend, a preacher, a pastor, a disciple. We love you Megan, thank you for being with us. Oh, it's so good to be here. I thought that your middle name was Fate. Sounds fancier. It's a little French, huh? And I said, I know that this, I bet it's fate, but I keep saying Fate, so it's fate. You can go either way. Megan Fate Marshman. Megan Fate Marshman. That's what I thought. I can't believe it. I actually can't. I'm having a hard time believing it. But I'm gonna. We're on the podcast. That was a burst. Megan Fate. Yeah, yeah. Thank God I didn't introduce her. Megan Fate. I can't see any. Okay, so we have actually, this is our second time filming because the first time we filmed, things got messed up and we weren't able to finish the episode. So we are doing around two today, but since the last time we saw you, something really special has happened. Yes. You're engaged. Congratulations. Thank you. So exciting. It is. Oh man. So interesting because I'm aware of who's listening and there's some people that know the full story that hear this and other people who go like, oh, and I'm just, it's so wild because when we meet people for the first time, whether it's on a podcast or just in life, sometimes we want to give the full context. Of course, yeah. I want to give like the full context. And yet at the same time, the full context can be draining or full of grief, which mine happens to be. And yet what I've come to find is my willingness to go deeper and expand deeper allows the joys to actually be richer and fuller. So when you say like, oh, you've got engaged, there's a fullness and a richness. Obviously, hopefully anyone that's getting engaged, that would be amazing. But the depth of story just makes it feel different. Wow. You are so special. Okay, we're going to get into all of that. We have so much to get into and so much you guys have no idea. Megan is one of the wisest women that I've ever met. Being in your presence is calming. You literally wrote a book called Relaxed, Walking with the One Who is Worried About Nothing, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. You just have such a presence about you. The peace of God follows you into every room that you walk into. So this story is really special. As a lot of you guys know, I am six-year sober. I just turned six-year sober on Thanksgiving last year. And I'll be coming up on seven years this Thanksgiving. And what is so special about this story, as a lot of you guys know, is I was dating my ex, Jake, at the time. And we happened to go to Jake's family's house for Thanksgiving and there was no alcohol at this Thanksgiving party. So what did I do at the time? I brought a little alcohol in my bag to bring the party with me. Obviously, this is way before I'm saved. And I remember being at this house and I had grown up with Jesus, but I hadn't at that point really encountered him since I was probably a kid. And so I remember sitting around this Thanksgiving table and the family said grace. And I hadn't been around a family saying grace at the dinner table in a long time. And I go home that night. Well, while I'm still at my ex's aunt's house, he basically finds me drinking. He finds it in my bag. Was devastated about it. I was devastated. We go home that night and he basically gives me an ultimatum and says, I don't want to be with you if you're going to keep drinking. I'm not going to watch you do this to yourself. And I remember that night, and I've told this story so many times, I received supernatural deliverance from alcohol. And whenever I tell this story, I say to myself, oh, it was because I was praying with Socrates for six months. And that's what got me free. That's what led to that one moment of freedom. And while that's the truth, I forgot one key part because Megan, you preached at my Pastor Darren's church garden. And I was on tour. This was last year. I was on tour. It was a Sunday morning and I was watching church online in my hotel room. You came on the screen and I'm literally watching you preach. And then I remember, oh my gosh, Megan Fait Marshman. That's Jake's cousin. And then I go, oh my gosh, I was with Megan Fait Marshman and their Christian family on Thanksgiving. Oh my gosh, I was in a spirit filled home the day I got sober. Could it be, I literally, all of this was happening all at the same time. And I go, Lord, could it be that yes, those six months of prayer led to that moment of breakthrough, but I was in a spirit filled environment, go home and literally break free from alcoholism in one moment. She then reaches out to me and everything clicks for me too. Yes, let's hear your side. Because my cousin Jake, before you reached out to me, had told me, hey, you remember that a girlfriend of mine that I brought to Thanksgiving and I'm like, yeah, because I can actually remember you Thanksgiving. She started a Christian podcast. She went Christian and I was like, really? And he goes, yeah, I think it's like doing really well. And I'm like, and in my mind, I'll be honest. Yeah, please be honest. I was like, I bet she started a cute little podcast. I bet it's doing really well on her aunt and mom all watch weekly. I bet it's going so well. And I have no idea until you send a voice memo to me after that garden message and how cool. My mind right now is jumping to a story through a streams video. There's an organization called Streams that puts out videos and there's this one story of a guy who gets it, who goes to a barber shop and starts just a normal conversation with his barber and long story short, by the end of it, the barber goes, dude, you don't know as I was about to take my life after work today. But then you sat in my chair and the way the guy is talking about the encounter, he goes, I didn't even bring up the name of Jesus. I was just getting my hair cut. I think the reason I bring that up is it reminds me of we have no idea who it is that we bring as a Christ follower, whether it was me, a culmination of my family, just we have no idea what we bring into an environment. We bring the presence of God. And so anyone listening in who's forgotten, I want to remind you. Of course, do we want to be intentional? Of course. Have I been trying to talk with Jake about the things of Jesus for our entire lives that I've known him? Yes. And I remember you sitting there. I remember you not being fully present. And yet, parts of what people love about you were there. And I now love getting to witness you full of the spirit, full of the presence of God, because how God crafted you before you acknowledged him by name or not, was there. You were so cute. You were open then. You were willing then. You were curious then. You were drunk then. You couldn't hide it. I didn't. I thought I was. I really thought I was slick. I thought I was slick. It's so interesting. I think I remember another story. Sister once got robbed the week of Christmas. Oh my gosh. That's terrible. I know. It's just jumping all around, but it'll make sense in about two minutes. And I remember all of her Christian friends well intended, like even myself included, like texted. I'm so sorry when we found out, but her non-Christian neighbors showed up with gifts. And well, not all of us Christian friends failed. There's a moment I'm sitting with my brother and I'm like, look at the non-Christian neighbors showing up. And he goes, oh, they bear the image of God, whether they acknowledge it or not. And I'm like, wow. So the source, the foundation of your life shifted. It's evident. Your presence shifted its evidence. Bearing the image of God has it. It's just, because you always did, it's just profound to watch what happens when you, and this is what I know about you. You continue to open every area of your life. You're never content just being as you are, which is fun because whether I see you five months ago or six years ago, we are constantly, especially with the spirit in you. I think of Romans 8.29 that says, for those God for new, he also predestined not to get tripped up there. That's a long story. But basically that whole chapter is about the spirit and the spirit versus the flesh that's within us. For you, the Holy Spirit is clearly and evidently in you, which means, Romans 8.29, those God for new, he also predestined. So the spirit in you predestined you to be conformed to the image of his son. So it's a thrill getting to see you and also know the sovereignty of God, that he'll use all things. Yeah, he does. Even a mistake to bring you. Like, that's profound to me, that he's so good. He doesn't just use like the moment we turn. He actually can use what you used to define yourself by. He actually can use a mistake. He can use, this is profound to me, he can use your literal hiding. Thank you, Jesus. Right? Like we're all hiding in some way, shape or form. We're not much different than Adam and Eve, right? Hiding and wanting to present the best version of ourselves and you want it to be free. Right? And so you chose one way and now you've found a different way and the freedom looks good on you. Jesus, Megan, my gosh. Oh, just even being in conversation. All right, guys, I feel like discipline is one of those things that we talk so much about, but actually living it out is different because you can want to take care of your body. You can intend to show up, but if you don't have a plan, it's really easy to fall off. And I've definitely had seasons like that where I'm going to the gym, I'm trying, but I'm just kind of piecing things together. And then you look up and you're like, why do I feel stuck? That's honestly what shifted for us when we started using the ladder app. It gave us so much structure. It's not random workouts. It's an actual strength training plan built by a coach and it builds week after week. So now when we show up, we already know what we're doing. No guessing, no overthinking. We can just be present and actually train. And it really does feel like having a coach in your ear walking you through every set. And I think that's the difference. When you remove the guesswork, you can actually stay consistent and consistency is what changes everything. The fact that it's less than a dollar a day for that level of structure and guidance, it's honestly a no-brainer. Remove the guesswork with ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you exactly what to do for every workout. No thinking, everything planned for you. If you have an iPhone, head to ladder.fit.ggb and take a quick quiz to find your perfect ladder plan. Use our link and get a free seven day trial with no credit card and $10 off your first month if you join. One of the cutest things that I get to do with my niece is getting her Haya. When we got her her first Haya bottle before anything, she was so excited to decorate it. Like fully focused, picking up the stickers, deciding where everything goes. It turned into this whole little moment. And I think that's what we love about Haya so much. It doesn't feel like it's a take your vitamin moment. It feels like something that she was actually excited about. And then after that, it just becomes easy. No convincing, no back and forth. She actually enjoys it, which if you've ever been around kids, you know that's not always the case. What stood out to us about Haya is that it's thoughtfully made. Zero sugar, no gummy additives, just clean ingredients and something kids will actually take. And here's something every parent needs to hear. If getting your kids to eat vegetables feels like an impossible daily battle, Haya's new kids daily greens and superfoods is a total game changer. It's basically just chocolate milk stuffed with veggies. It's a greens powder designed specifically for kids that's packed with over 55 whole foods sourced ingredients. Just mix one scoop with milk or a milk alternative and watch them actually enjoy something that is secretly fueling their growing bodies. We've worked out a special deal for Haya for their best selling children's vitamin. Receive 50% off your first order. To claim this deal, you must go to HayaHealth.com.GGB. This deal is not available on their regular website. Go to H-I-Y-A-H-E-A-L-T-H.com.GGB to get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults. I feel like all of us lately, we've just been trying to make better choices. Just small things that actually make a difference, especially in the morning because mornings are so important. And so many of us realize that we wake up and we go straight to coffee, not really eating anything and then wondering why we feel off later. So I think it's time we try to switch it up a little bit. Just starting our day with something that actually feels good. And that's honestly why we love Brodo. This podcast is sponsored by Brodo. Brodo's bone broth is the simplest nutrition upgrade you can make to your daily routine. It's bone broth made from scratch, no weird ingredients, no shortcuts, and it actually tastes really good. Brodo was launched by James Beard Award-winning Chef Marco Canora. 11 years ago, he started serving bone broth out of the window of his NYC restaurant. Now Brodo ships nationwide, so you don't have to be in New York City to enjoy Chef Marco's masterpiece. Our favorite right now from the sampler pack that Brodo sent us is the chicken bone broth. It's just simple, warm, and it feels like something your body actually wants and it tastes incredible. And it's so easy. You just heat it up and you're getting about 10 grams of protein, plus all these nutrients, all under 50 calories. And Brodo comes in eight delicious flavors from classic chicken to the spicy nona to more creative blends like ginger turmeric, urban fused, or veggie-based broths. I recommend trying their sampler pack. Shop the best broth on the planet with Brodo. Head to brodo.com slash ggb for 20% off your first subscription order and use code GGB for an additional $10 off. Once again, that's brodo.com backslash ggb for 20% off your first subscription and an additional $10 off if you use our promo code GGB. With you just ministers to our hearts immediately. Yeah, I remember so specifically, I don't remember much clearly, but I wasn't like wasted, but it was not great. Just that whole time in my life was such a blur. And I remember though, because I had been talking to the man who discipled me socrates for six months, but I still wasn't like getting it. Like I didn't even necessarily know if I wanted it at that point. And I remember when I was in that relationship specifically, when I look back, I remember for the, I always identified as a Christian or a Catholic, but I remembered for the first time, it was kind of like during 2020, during COVID, when all of that stuff was happening in the world was weird and I was heavily influenced by Hollywood and social media and just whatever was going on in the world at that time. I remember for the first time, I go, I don't really know if I believe in all that Jesus stuff, like there's science. I remember distinctly like I had started saying stuff like that, which I'd never said in my life. And then I remember when we were sitting around at Thanksgiving at your table, you were leading us in prayer, you specifically, you were leading us in prayer, we're saying grace, I think you had us all go around the table and say what we were thankful for. And I remember whoever I was sitting next to, I turned to them and I go, I was just so excited that someone was talking about Jesus. And I remember turning and going, yeah, I'm a Christian. It was like one of the first times in a long time that I had identified and even spoke like I'm a Christian. So it's just such an insane story. I can't believe you're so divinely connected to all of this. Like literally, I do, I just put, I talked to Darren about it so much where I'm just like, that moment is so significant in my life, which means it's significant to our lives and to GGB. So thank you. Thank you for your life. Seriously. Yeah. You have an amazing story and you've been through so much and you carry so much joy. And Megan, if you could just tell us, you know, give us a little bit of backstory. So many people who watch us have gone through tremendous, profound loss. And Ari's been through a lot of loss. I've been through a little bit of loss, but I don't think either of us have experienced close to what you have. Can you just talk to us a little bit about your life, your ministry, your late husband, Randy, who I had the pleasure and honor of meeting. You was such a sweet, sweet man. Can you just get into it a little bit? Well, I'll start with what a lot of people do when it comes to loss, which is naturally you just did it. And I used to do it a lot, but I think it's really profound that we've all been through the hardest thing we've ever been through. So whether it's a little loss, a lot of loss, a lot, like whatever degree even anyone listening in, everyone has the hardest thing they've ever been through. No, this would be mine would be so we met in 2000, 20, oh no, 2019. And it would be about a little over a year later that my husband went to heaven unexpectedly with a heart attack in the middle of the night. And we have two little boys at the time, five and still in a crib had just turned two and life flipped. And so again, even back to the intro of this whole session, it's, wow, so much has changed since I saw you last because you're engaged. I just made brief mention of it, but there's just something in me that the bottom of my life dropped out. And what I didn't know was what also dropped was my heart's capacity to of course experience pain and loss, but also to look to people and have the ability. I always put it this way, I agree if you have this weird superpower that you would give back willingly I think anyone that's been through it you go, well, I just give back the superpower if I could, but since we can't, the superpower is this, that suddenly in loss you stop caring about things that don't matter anymore. And you start caring a whole heck of a lot about the things that do matter. So having conversations and stuff like that I could have in the past been fearful of like bringing up or jumping into things like eternity or heaven or pain or sadness or tears. Or trauma or grief or anxiety or any other thing that we all go through in the human experience. I have a super, I have a superpower, thank you, thank you. I just really care about people finding God there. I care about them searching their heart to the depth of wherever their life has dropped to and finding God there because he promises to be found. One of my favorite promises in scripture is Jeremiah 29, 13, which is two verses after the God speaking, I know the plans I have for you to the people who are in the middle of suffering, which is a few verses after he tells them stay in the heart. And then that plan that he has that's good and all that is going to be seven years later, which makes me laugh when we put that on graduation cards. But the promise is in 13, which says this, you will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. And since losing Randy, I have accessed portions of my heart that I never knew were there. And I feel a great privilege to be someone, whether it's vocationally, but hopefully just in life, that helps people access their heart too. Because what we find is if you seek God there, you'll find him in some of the most surprising places. Find him in your grief if you seek him there. He promises to be found by you. In fact, he says it again in verse 14 of Jeremiah 29, which always makes me laugh. He says it twice, which means I wonder if, by the way, that is the plan in 2911 that we all talk about for another plan. I have for you to Claire's Lord's plans, prosperity to harmony plans to give you hope in the future. I wonder if all of that is just found and founding him there. And so suddenly just shifts a little bit of what we seek. And I'd say it ought to or it can shift what we seek everywhere. It shifts what we seek in our quiet time. Suddenly it's no longer like inspire me or make me feel better or even give me peace. Peace is amazing, but it's an amazing byproduct. Not the goal. If you seek peace, you might critique every single thing in your life that doesn't give you peace. If you seek happiness, you will critique everyone and everything based on how happy it makes you. And so what you do is, if you seek to find God, you'll find what you're looking for. And this changes even the immediate conversation when you walk out of church from what you think. In other words, what you like, what you're not like. Like that's just, you know, which song did you like? Which we naturally jump into that. But the problem is it makes our seeking like our appetite is based on what we like or what makes us feel challenged or comfortable or versus just how'd you find God today? How'd you find God this morning? And then it suddenly shifts something that is findable. And that's important for anyone whose life has bottomed out or it's important for anyone whose heart they don't understand. And it all starts with an opening up the heart, which is kind of cool because I know we had an interaction or like first times we cross paths was when I really started to begin to study the heart and why it matters for us to search it. Because I like the way Proverbs four says it says above all else, guard it, guard your heart because everything you do flows from it. In other words, if you want to change your life, what you do actually have to access the heart. You don't change your life by trying to change your life. I relied so much on motivation and now I'm realizing, oh, searching my heart with God, acknowledging the grief, not ignoring it, acknowledging the insecurity, acknowledging that I'm kind of bored. Like acknowledging the truth because that's the only place God's going to meet you. Okay. I am. Wow. First, I want to go to because I want to talk about how to truly search your heart, what you're talking about, how to acknowledge it. But first, can we go back to you mentioned when your life bottoms out, seeking Jesus, not peace, seeking Jesus, not happiness, you open, how like, can you just teach us how to do that? People want a practical way to have quiet time. How do you? Yeah. I'll give in that season of my life, I went back to school and I had a really neat homework assignment and I'll get real practical because I think we need that. I needed that. And so I know what I want. Like I want to seek the Lord, but I also know that I might not. Right? Yeah. So what do you do? I know that I want to wake up and pray in solitude and silence for 45 minutes. I would love to do that. But sometimes I press snooze and I don't want to do that. Yeah. But you know, so then I started to realize like, what am I going to do no matter what? And I feel like trigger, the term trigger gets this kind of funny rap because of course it like typically triggers us to pain or trauma or whatever. I was like, how can I use that even differently? So I was thinking about it and then I got this homework assignment, which basically was to create rhythms and practices in my life. And so one thing I did is I went, you know what? I might forget to pray, but I definitely not going to forget coffee. Yeah, yeah. So practical as it is. That is so real. Any time I pressed my coffee button, it was a trigger. It's like redeeming the word. It was a trigger reminding me to pray. And then all another thing I learned from Dr. John Koh, one of my professors was one part of my prayer that I did that I found to be so helpful was this. Do you ever have those moments in prayer when you like unintentionally like start performing and you're not meaning to, especially if like it's been a while since you prayed and you're not trying to enter back in. So you're God, dear God, thank you for this day. Of course. And thine is the kingdom and the glory. You know, you just don't know where to go. All right, guys, I had this moment the other day. We were just at the house, nothing crazy, and we caught ourselves looking around at everything, our lives, the people we love, the routines we've built. And we were like, wow, this didn't exist a few years ago, like the life that we prayed for one day you wake up and you're just living inside of it. And with that, we felt a weight, but not in a bad way, more like a responsibility. Like we actually have something to protect now because we talk a lot about trusting God and we should, but there's also a part of us that's called to be wise and prepared. And that's why we love policy genius. It's a marketplace that helps you compare life insurance options all in one place, which honestly makes the whole process feel way less intimidating. 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And we've been realizing how important it is to have something that brings you back to truth quickly. And that's actually what we love about Yappy because it's so simple. It's a bracelet or a necklace. And when you tap it, it pulls up a Bible verse right there. No app, no effort. It just meets you in that moment. It's like a reminder to pause, breathe and realign. And we love that it's not complicated. It's just something you wear, but it keeps you connected. And it works whether you're just starting your faith journey or you've been walking with God for years and want something that helps you stay grounded. It's also such a thoughtful gift too because it's not just pretty. It actually means something. Our listeners can go to yappybracelets.com slash ggb for 15% off their entire order. And then maybe people can resonate with us. You have that moment when suddenly your mind just is somewhere else. Like you're wandering over there and then you're there for like a minute and a half thinking about and then there's that moment when you like realize, I'm no longer praying. This is so real. So then what do you do then? Because typically what I used to do forever was, but you're wondering, I'm hungry. Oh, that brings me. And what I would do in that moment when I realized it was I would pause the prayer, shame myself back to the performance prayer that I thought I was proud of and I'd start again. And so the question you asked was how do you get to the heart? Here's the big surprise. My professor said a wandering mind in prayer is a gift. And I was like, how so? And he goes, because where's your mind wandering to? Jesus put it this way. He said, where your treasure is there. You're heart of yours. So and where's your mind? Isn't it wild that I'm assuming people listening in, some have like trusted the Lord Jesus for eternal salvation from forgiveness of all sins. And yet the fact that they think that their friend is mad at them, they feel like they have to do that one all by themselves. Or their taxes or like whatever consumes the mind, whatever gives the mind, whatever our mind jumps to, wherever my wanders to is communicating something to us. And so here's my encouragement when your mind begins to wander. And this was part of my spiritual discipline for a season. Well, this let it go and then talk to him about that. And I would just wait there and then I would just let the best part about the whole like, how do you seek out of all your heart? The surprise and the whole thing is that he's been seeking you the whole time. My friend Alan gave this illustration. He said, you know, my little daughter and I would walk down this busy street. We'd hold hands and he goes, and I'd always tell her, hold my hand tight, hold my hand tight, grab my hand, hold my hand tight. And she would and I'd remind her and then she'd forget. And then I'd remind her and then she'd forget. And then I'd remind her and he goes, but the best part of all for my little girl is that even when she forgets, I never stop holding hers. How cool is that? So whether you reach out with your coffee pot tomorrow or not, he's pursuing you. And then it suddenly just shifts like what quiet time is. Suddenly it's not like trying to strive. It's like, I'm just going to open to the pursuit. I'm going to open to the love that I believe, but have forgotten to receive and have very long time. And the only way I'm going to receive it is by looking at the things in me. Honestly, honestly, I probably don't feel loveable. In fact, it's interesting. John Calvin says this phrase like, he talks about this thing called double knowledge that you can't know God without knowing yourself. And I was like, I feel like we're kind of self obsessed. Why would we need to know our heart and know ourselves? Like, why? Until I recognized, wait a second. I've known my whole life God is love. But when I look at myself, I would say, look at my jealousy or my judgment or my film of blank. And now I consider that God is love. Suddenly his love for me expands because his love for me is no longer dependent upon my good behavior. So my awareness of his love expands as I know myself and voice that to the one who loves you the most. So tangibly, how do you access your heart? Two things I do. One, coffee pot prayer, let my mind wander. And the second part of the prayer, and then we can go wherever else, is another part of that prayer that I do because I am in Christ. I didn't even know what that phrase meant. It sounded great. I knew I had an identity in Christ. I did not know what it meant. I have a discipline of reminding myself of what it means at my coffee pot. And it's this, I imagine myself as an onion. So imagine that being your whole heart, your personality, your everything, body, mind, spirit, everything. And what I do after I do the wandering mind moment is I just allow each layer to open up to him. And I start by going, oh God, I am, I'm a mom. That's what's on my, it's a role responsibility I hold. I, at the time, especially in that deep season of grief, it was I'm a widow and I'd sit with the suckiness of that in my 30s. And then I would get to, and I'd start with like my roles, my jobs, even. I'm a pastor. I'm, and I just kind of open up all these pieces. And I'd also say this added part of like, I am these things, but I'm not primarily these things. Yeah. I'm a woman. I'm sensitive. I am outgoing. I am funny. Sad. Thank you. I am very funny. And then I get to like personality. And then I get to how I'm feeling. And then I get to how my body feels. And then I, and then I get to the cork, cork, cork, cork. I am in you and you're in me. Yeah. And then I linger there before putting all that stuff on, asking like, what does it mean to have the spirit as a mom? What does it mean as I put back my personality? I'm outgoing, but like, I have the spirit that that's different than just being outgoing. That suddenly is like, whoa, there's something here. God's going to give me energy from other people. That's, I mean, and then I just kind of like put on all the layers. Like, while I'm not primarily those things, I still am those things. And suddenly those are something to steward our finances to steward our personality to steward. Our neighbors to steward our story, which you guys have done very faithfully to steward. And the best part is, is we do, we're not doing it along. I don't know what to say. I am getting rocked. I think something that you said that resonated with me so much is like, I love, I feel so freed by you simply saying when your mind wanders, let it go there. It's going there for a reason. That's clearly what your heart wants to talk about. And like literally today and every day when that happens, I'll be like, Holy spirit, like I'm doing all my spiritual stuff and then my mind begins to wander. And then I come back and I'm like, you alone are worthy war. How can I make it this intense thing? And I shame myself so much because I'm like, no, no, no. And it's like my biggest prayer is that God would just like tear down every idol to break every bit of idolatry. And then I shame myself so hard when I see that something is rising above Jesus. Or I see that like my anxiety or my worry is clearly more important than just like looking at Jesus's face that day. And I have had, Ari goes through this as well. I think we both experienced God at times as like an angry God or a disappointed dad or this like perpetual feeling that God is mad at us. And so I'm just so grateful. And like maybe you can speak to that because you don't seem like you have that. And it's amazing. Why? I just think the spirit is more involved in everything than we realize. Like that's why we don't have to pause the prayer. Yeah. And we can talk to him about that. I just gave a message two weeks ago and it was actually a gnarly passage. And it speaks to what you're just talking about. It was this one, Matthew seven. So in the end of the sermon of the Mount things end of the sermon on the Mount, it says this, Jesus speaking, not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, we'll enter the kingdom of heaven. Yeah. But only the one who does the will of my father, who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name, drive out demons? And in your name perform many miracles. Then I will tell them plainly, I never knew you away from me, you evil doors. Here's the surprise. He does not say you didn't know me. Jesus says, you didn't let me know you. Well, I care about all the things. I mean, all the things. And you brought up the angry God. It's so interesting when I used to be terrified of this passage. I imagine like that the whole sermon on the Mount was him like, don't do this. Yeah. For sure. Don't do that. Like for sure, not that. You know better than that, especially you over there. I felt that like tongue, but I forgot that the entire sermon on the Mount begins with what? The attitudes, which are what? Blessed are that. So he's literally begins the whole thing with blessing, but what kind of blessing? The surprising kind that's like, guess why are you blessed? When you're teary eyed? That's so good. Guess when you're blessed? When you're at the end of yourself? That's so good. So guess what he wants to hear about all of that? And he wants to know you. He wants to know you and be with you in all of it. And this is the I just think that the spirit is I just I hope I'm learning about him the rest of my life and planning to keep me accountable like you're no sugar diet. Nothing. Cool. Yeah. Is I think the spirit is involved in a lot more than we realize, for instance, insecurity. I used to think that was just like a moment of weakness and be confident, Megan. You know, if you feel insecure, when you walk into just anything, right? I mean, think of it anywhere you walk in, where you feel insecure. Here's what if it's the spirit going, I'm not going to let you find security. There. Well, like what if insecurity is a gift? I know that sounds nuts. I like that perspective. What if he's like, yeah, I'm not going to let you find security in how you look. That's not going to be all that secure. I'm not going to let you find security in your way. It's not going to be all that secure. Well, I'm not going to let you find security in your job because it's not going to sustain you. Like, so I think it communicates through surprising ways like that, but I think he also communicates in surprising ways through our body. Well, I need. What do you mean by that? Yeah, I've been studying the body lately because I'm like, he gave us a body and and New Heavens, New Earth. We will have bodies. I somehow just no one gave that sermon when I was little or they did and I was drawing. So I've been thinking about the body and I'm like, well, there's obvious signs. Like when my kid throws up, what's his body communicating? Yeah, he's sick. He's sick. Right. When I do that, I'm emotional or maybe I'm a little sick. Like our bodies are constantly communicating, but also our anxieties, I think rather than just shaming ourselves in our anxieties is going like, well, my body's trying to communicate that I'm not at peace. What a gift because how kind is the Lord? And I think about even his kindness is what leads us to repentance. How kind of the Lord to bring up stuff because he doesn't want to still live like that anymore. And he's so gentle and he's so kind. So if the voice you're hearing is not gentle and kind, I don't think it's the Lord. But I do think there's truth that's trying to be communicated. I just think that we've limited the Holy Spirit quite a bit and we could get on that conversation for a while. But what if he's really, as Romans 8 says, dwelling within, longing, longing with us. He longs for every part of our heart to be his home. And so in his perfect time, I think it's really profound that he lets us see ourselves. Yeah. Even the stuff that's not great, like with the perspective of the spirit, wanting what's best and interceding on our behalf, it's interesting to go. So if in kindness, he lets me see something or pain or trigger that brings me back to somewhere really hard. I know he's with me and I know we could do something together there. That's really powerful. But if I try to just not be affected, feel like I'm not going on. That journey. And I think, I think he's kind and gentle. And he is, as Romans 8, 28, going to use, watch this, all things for the good, good of those who love him and thanks be to God, that all things that God uses to form us more into the likeness of Jesus, all things includes all things. If someone listening to this podcast would sit there on their drive or their run, proud of you by the way, if you're ready, or wherever you're sitting from and just be there with him and wherever your mind goes to that thing for good. And then defines it again in Romans 8, 29, he says, for those of you who are going to be also pretty to be conformed to the image of the Son, God's definition of. On the days we don't feel our best, it's not always obvious. It's just like we're a little more tired, a little less clear and a little less present. And it makes me realize how much the physical side of things actually affects everything else. We talk so much about showing up for God, for people, for our purpose, but our bodies are carrying all of that. And if that's off, you feel it. So we've been trying to be more mindful about the small things we do every day, just to support our body in a way that actually feels doable. And one of those things for us has been dose. It's just a two ounce shot that you take once a day and it supports your liver, which we didn't even realize is doing so much behind the scenes all the time. And we like it because it's simple. It's not another thing you have to think about or keep up with. It literally takes a second and it tastes like orange juice. So it's one of those small habits where we're like, okay, this actually feels sustainable. And we think that's the biggest thing, finding things that help you take care of yourself in a way that you'll actually stick to. Because when you feel better, even just a little, you show up differently. So if you're ready to honor your health and invest in your future self, try dose with code GGB. New customers can save 35% off your first month of subscription by going to dosedaily.co. slash ggb or entering ggb at checkout. That's D O S E D A I L Y dot C O slash G GB for 35% off. Your first month subscription. Okay, I have to say this because I know someone listening needs to hear it. There are seasons where opening your Bible feels so easy and then there are seasons where it takes a little more intention. And lately we've just been so mindful about staying consistent and actually sitting with the word, not just rushing through it. And honestly, Jose and a revival has been part of our lives for a while now. We've had their Bibles for over two years and we still find ourselves always going back to them. And not just because they're beautiful because they are beautiful, but because they feel like an invitation to slow down and really engage. Like when something is created with intention, it pulls you in differently. And honestly, can we just say that they are so beautiful? Their whole heart is that the word of God is already beautiful. And sometimes having a Bible that reflects that just helps you stay connected to it in a deeper way. They just dropped their new spring collection and it honestly feels like a fresh layer to our time with God. So if you've been wanting to be more consistent or go a little deeper in your time in the word, this is such a simple but meaningful step. Use code GGB for 15% off. Good is not to make our life more comfortable. Of course, loss does not make my life in any way more comfortable or happy. But you know what it does? Man, if I let it, it forms me more into the likeness of Jesus. I've been more of a prayer warrior for my kids than ever in my entire life. And I believe I give that testimony to let someone else know like he'll use your crap for good too. You do not have to be alone there. Oh Lord. I'm not okay. The first time I, I saw Megan, it was at my church and she did a sermon on Psalm 139 and it changed the whole perspective of my prayer time. And I still hear your voice sometimes in my prayer time because you said something like, are you bitter? Tell them. Are you sad? Tell them. And so being able to get to that place of vulnerability with Jesus, that's why he says, you must enter as a child. It's like I go back to a child where I can be open and honest and real. And I feel like it's, I've seen the wonders of God in that place. And then I just love how you went through Psalm 139 because David, how real and honest and raw he was and how God, it's just so beautiful. So yeah, you just, you, for anyone listening, please watch her sermon. On Psalm 139, it literally changed everything. I remember sitting there, I listened to it twice. I sat there for the next service and I listened to you twice because it was that good. Is someone 39 has been the passage I've sat in for the past few years? After I wrote relaxed, I've gone on a little bit of a journey and that passage has really been the guiding place of my prayer life. So I love that that's affected your prayers because it deeply affected mine because it is a prayer. It is this really profound chapter of the Bible that's very famous at women's conferences because it has that one liner. You are fearfully, wonderfully made. Put it on a sweatshirt. Everyone loves that chapter. Right. And, and I remember the first time I ever taught it, I taught through it. It's great. Cause it's all about like God's unique, distinct, omnicaracteristics, his incommunicable attributes, the attributes that we cannot become. Like some of his attributes, like love, we can become, but his all knowing, probably not going to get there. He's all knowing. He's all powerful. He's the creator. He is ever present. Like these truths about God that David just seems to be listing out, listing out, listing out, listing out. But I find that song interesting in so many ways that we've talked about it for hours. The beginning of it starts with search my heart. The end of it ends with search my heart. And it talks all about who God is. And then the scripture takes this little turn that the first time I taught it, I just skipped. I didn't understand. Yeah. Basically, like the, the, it's such a funny, I'm not gonna, it's such a funny passage in so many ways. It reminds me a little bit of John. Remember how John in the book of John refers to himself as the one, you know, yeah. So it seems so arrogant until you really think about it. Like, or is he utterly secure? Imagine introducing yourself like, Oh, I know who I am. I'm the one who is secure in love. Like that sounds great. I see it in David too, where he's like, uh, you created my inmost being someone they're gonna 13. I praise you. I'm fearfully wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful. Again, he's talking about himself. Your works God, they're wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. And then he says this, how interesting. I know that full well, which makes me wonder, like, do we? Then it was like, my friend was not hidden. You saw my in her body precious. Precious to me are your thoughts, God. How vast is the sum of them where I count them? They don't number the greens of sand when I wake up to with you. Then it takes a left turn. And it's this really sweet seems chapter of the Bible until verse 19. If only you God would slay the wicked. What? Away from me, you whore bloodthirsty. They, and he kind of just goes off and it feels random. It feels like it doesn't fit until you recognize. This is the heart of David writing this chapter, which is what we're getting at this whole time. What, what's at the heart? David's mad. This whole chapter, surprisingly, is what's referred to as an imprecatory song, the token women's conference chapter of the Bible is a song of judgment and hatred and anger. What? And when you realize that this is what's at his heart, it makes you reread the entire thing again in a very different tone. So if he's angry, which by the way is not a topic we talk about a lot. And yet I think it's something we all have to deal with. Otherwise it just continues to explode to other cars on the freeway or the people we love the most. So if you realize at his heart, what's coming up is anger. When you start at the beginning, it's like, you've searched me and you know me, you, you know, when I sit, when I rise, you know what this is doing in me. He's talking all about God knowing. Got you, you know how mad I am, how unfair this is, you know, to a greater extent than I do, you know how this is affecting me. Then he goes, like, where can I get away from you? Like when he feels that it utterly exposed, where can I go from me? Where can I flee from you? You know, and you're with me. Then he gets to like, and you created me this way. And it's in that context with a capacity to be mad and to not be okay with the brokenness of the world that he says, you created me fearfully and wonderfully made, and you created me like this with a capacity to not be okay with the world as it is. And also to not be okay with what's going on in me. And this is what this Holy Spirit's doing in Romans eight, when he's like, we're longing for something better. Like that longing within us is not a bad longing. The problem is what we do to cope with it. Yeah. And here's what David models for us. We back to you. Tell him if you are bored or you feel like an idiot when you read your Bible. Tell him he's not going to meet you to pretend spiritual, more spiritual version of yourself. He's going to only meet you right where you're at. And so if you want to meet with him, if you want to see him and find him, it starts with honesty about, and I wonder even anyone listening in, there's a another chapter in the Psalms, Psalms four, where he says, get on your bed and who rage, like rage. To have a space for how God created us. And if we don't deal with it, it will harden us or it will leak out. And I think many of us, myself included, which is why I'm so obsessed with this. I need, and I like what anger is. Anger is like this really crazy emotion. It makes you feel powerful when you feel weak and sad. That's why anger just feels more accessible than just sitting sad. Like, yeah, it makes sense. And that's, I really want to let people know the anger really, I mean, it exposes what you value. It exposes what feels unsafe. It exposes like, that's not right. And there's so much of our life that is not right. And taking time to tell them, to voice to God, it's not right. And then you'll be pleasantly surprised to find him going, I know, I'm doing something about it. So would that be kind of like when you are in that moment of grief? Because I'm sure that there's moments where it just hits you so hard. What do you do in that moment? You just tell them, like, what is something, a practical thing that somebody can do when grief hits them so hard? Yeah. Grief is being honest. It's like the one thing we can do with loss. I think oddly, what I would just tell anyone is to grief. So that sounds so obvious. It's to let, this is a key term for me. Let it come. Let God comfort you. Let a friend comfort you. Let. And so here's why you say it. It feels, it almost feels too simple to say, Oh, what are you doing? Oh, you actually have to grieve. No, it's true. Because if you don't grieve, you'll get stuck at whatever stage you tried to get out of the grief out. So you'll remain angry for a very long time. But I think this is the visual I want to give everyone is to move from hands, fists, and I even wonder if anyone that's not driving would want to take their fists and just like squeeze them and go like, what would I ask you to do in a moment of rage, sad, whatever negative emotion we termed it, negative emotions, is to move from trying to find a way to control or navigate or fix to just open to let. So in grief, it would be whatever this posture feels like to you. Maybe it's fall on the ground and cry. Bluster those who mourn. Yeah. They will be comforted. Or maybe it's let someone in. Or maybe it's, I'm going to tell God that I'm really not okay. Or it's I'm going to open to my friends who have been suggesting a certain therapist and I just keep hearing the same name over and over. Like I just wonder, and it's hard to prescribe it. Yeah. 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Private, Christian, affordable, nonprofit. Visit gcu.edu to learn more. They don't know where someone's at in their journey. I don't know if they're like, I know I should be over it by now. Let it be okay that you're not. That's so good. You know, like what? That's so good. Let. It's a passive. It's passive and everything in us wants to be reactive. Active. I think what I'm learning in life is even the spiritual life is it's a lot more letting God love you instead of trying to understand it. It's just letting. Yeah. Oh man. That is so good. I want to ask you. So you, you wrote a book called relaxed and it is phenomenal. And like I said earlier, you just have a piece about you that is so special. I think sometimes like the contrast between our energy at times, like I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And you're like, don't care. So good. Can you just in a world where people are so debilitated by anxiety, people are paralyzed. Can you just talk to us about, because I am pretty sure you've studied anxiety spiritually, physically, psychologically. Can you just talk to us a little bit about anxiety and where you think Jesus meets us? Sure. I would, I would just give the invitation. The entire book relaxed. Walking with the one who's not worried. Opposite of anxiety. Walking with the one who's not worried about a thing. The whole spine of the book is based off of an invitation from scripture that happens to be a lot of people's life verse, which is awesome. I love, love, love, love taking really famous verses and going, there's a reason they got famous. Let's understand it and let's open ourselves. And the reason I think I like the famous ones is because our pride tells us that we already know it. Yes. Wow. So when you hear a verse like, ah, my life verse or I love it. And it's great. I think sometimes you, your pride in it disables you from actually being able to receive it a fresh because anytime you receive any gift, it requires humility. Right. So if someone like brings you Christmas gift and you don't have one for them. At that moment where you're like, yours. At home in my garage, I'll get later when I get it and we'll be better than yours. But what does it take for you to receive that gift is some level of human it. That's why we don't like not, not, not having something back because we want it to match. We want to, we don't want to just receive something. And so in anxiety or anything, the simple profound to me that I wrote an entire book on, not just letting people know this truth, but experience it is the invitation from the Lord, which man's like a full circle of this whole conversation, which is in Proverbs three, five and six, which says, say it with me. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and think about our conversation. Why with all of our heart? Cause he's there. And he's interceding on your behalf. And so why do we trust him? And it starts with getting honest. You don't trust him by being somewhere else. You trust him by telling him, I'm distracted. I want to want you more. I, I want to wake up earlier. I, I want to, and I know that I won't probably like help me. And there's a humility that's required in order to receive anything. And so trust in the Lord with all your heart, open yourself to humility. What do you do with anxiety? Again, back to the let. It's like this different posture. It's, I'm going to let God fill in the blank as I trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding, which is why so many of us are anxious is because we can't fully understand anything, which is why prayer makes sense because he does. Yeah. Yeah. Lean not on your own understanding. I mean, we say, I'm just trying to figure everything out. And it's like socially acceptable in Christian circles. And I'm like, I like a lot. I got you girl. What if we were to go, what if you didn't just like, let the breath happen? Trust in the Lord with all your heart and not lean not on your understanding in all your ways. Do what? Acknowledge or submit, depending on your translation to him. In other words, open it to him. And what will happen? He will direct your path in that moment of anxiety. We need to let him guide, of course, right? By telling him, I'm so anxious. And I, when I turned in that book, I turned it into my editor and she cut out a few lines that I actually put back in. She, the line was take the time that literally takes. And I kept saying it, take the time that literally takes. And they're like, it's so redundant. I'm like, I know, but we won't take the time that literally takes to at the end of this podcast, you have more information, great. And that's what we want. And I know you have to take the time it literally takes to tell him, God, I'm so anxious about honesty. God's only going to meet you where you are, not where you're not. So we start there and we trust him by even telling him, I don't trust you with my future because finally you're trusting him with where you're at. I think I have to go. Where are you going to go? Yeah, I don't know. So special. And it's so important. Sorry. Just very tender right now. It's like the way that you break it down. What I love about you so much is you're never trying to come up with any thing and it is profound, everything that you're saying, but it's so, so simple. That's what I was just thinking. It is. It's all the things we already know. It's just simple, digestible. And I want to say another rule before you go to wherever you're off to. Yeah, is that this is like, like this is God's word. It's God speaking. And so I hope by the end of this session, if you sought to find God and opened your heart and humility to receive a gift that you could never return, which is his loving acceptance of you that's not just reserved for heaven. It's possible now as you expose, allow him to see you and you trust him there. So beautiful. I feel like just so many people's hearts are so open right now. Would you want to just leave people to the Lord? Here we are, Lord. And I think of our wandering mind and how funny in the middle of the podcast, when people might want to skip to the next episode, Lord, I pray that they wouldn't. And right now they would just let their mind wander and talk to you about that. I wonder, Lord, about where people are actually just really sad. Pray they would tell you or maybe that they're confused or let down or angry. Search us, Lord, know our heart. Test us, yes, know our anxious thoughts, which we know that you do. But like you said, at the end of this sermon on the mount, you want to know us. You want us to let you know where we're at. Lord, I pray even now to put together a sentence. God, I'm so anxious about and then tangibly ask for help. I imagine that just delights. I'm a mom and I love when my little kids like, can you help me? Especially with something I'm fully capable of and friends. As you're going in prayer, God is fully capable of absolutely anything. Lord, I pray that you would gift us with faith to believe and trust that your answers for good and to form us more into your likeness. Have your way. Amen. Thank you, Jesus. Wow. Thank you, Megan, for being such examples for us. You are such a gift. We love you so much. Thank you. Thank you for six years ago and thank you for today. What a full circle moment. So crazy. Thank you. Thank you, Meg. You are such an example for us. We can't thank you enough. This is one of our favorite episodes today. Oh, please. I am like rocked right now. Thank you. Those from the bottom of our hearts. Those for us. Just minister to all of us so much. Thank you. It's fun. The last thing I'd say is there's one little accountability I have for myself before I share anything and it changes how I even receive your feedback right now. I won't share anything that hasn't genuinely changed my life first. And so as you're like, oh, thank you. I'm like, oh, God, you did it again. But it's like, I can take it as like a, oh, he just started with me. How cool. And so for anyone listening in like it's beautiful to let God do things in us because inevitably it's never going to stop. Yeah. What a gift to see it affect someone else. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, guys, we love you so much. May the Lord bless you and keep you. May he make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you. May he turn his face towards you and give you peace. Shalom. Shalom. Shalom. Love you.