Why a Weird NBA Season Finally Went Full Weirdo On Us, With Tim Legler

The Bill Simmons podcast is presented by Fandall Sportsbook. We are also brought to you by the Ringer podcast network where I have a podcast called The Rewatchables that was on Spotify and all these other platforms and you could watch the video on Spotify. And now you can watch it on Netflix as well. We put up a bunch of old episodes and then the newest episode we did on Monday, Zodiac and we went longer than the actual movie, Zodiac. I think we were 13 minutes longer. You can watch it on Spotify and listen to it on Spotify. You can also watch it on Netflix and you watch the movie on Netflix. So next week we are going to do wild things, another movie that's on Netflix, a movie that's been on the list for a long, long time. So you have five days to watch wild things. And by the way, if you want to get this podcast or the rewatchables or any of the other Ringer podcasts on Netflix, click on the My List thing. If you click on it, every time we have a new episode, it'll just pop up on your My List thing and it makes it way easier to see if we have a new one up. But it's been fun to be on there. And I hope you're continuing to consume the podcast on Spotify as well because we love Spotify. Anyway, coming up on this podcast, the one, the only Tim Legler, I had a bunch of stuff to throw at him and I made him go through a powerful of all the teams 30 to one. I ranked them. He played off my rankings. We've done this before as a Bill Simmons podcast, but this was fun. We had a lot to cover. And we got to talk about Charlotte again, which is really all I want. All I want to do is talk about Charlotte and the Celtics on my podcast at this point, the other 2018, whatever. Anyway, that's all coming up next. We're going to take a break, we're going to bring him Pearl Jam and then Tim Legler. The Bill Simmons podcast is presented by Fandall. Playoff Modezon. Fandall's got it all. Same game, Parla's, Quick Bets for jumping in live offers to boost your winnings every game day. You do not want to miss out on the playoff action. The remaining playoff action we have on Fandall, download the Fandall app or head to Fandall.com slash BS to get started. 21 plus and present select states are 18 plus president DC Kentucky, where I'm in game prom co win energy gambler or visit rg-help.com call 888-789-77777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. All right, our friend Tim Legler is here. We're taping this Tuesday afternoon Pacific time because he had to fly. Congrats on actually getting a flight that successfully landed another part of the United States. He's in Cleveland getting ready to do a Cavs game tomorrow. We're going to go through the league. I sent you my power pole that I did. 30 to one. We're going to go down in order. We've never done this before. You're going to enjoy it. I had a thing at the top that I didn't prep you on. I looked this up. Last 25 games. The best record in the league is 17 and eight. And the worst record in the league is 7 and 18. All 30 teams in the last 25 games are separated by 10 games, which raises the larger question of what's going on this season? Why does it feel like everybody is kind of near each other game to game. Everyone could beat anybody on a given night. Nobody is elevating above anybody else. What the hell is happening? So I agree with everything you just said. It's been the weirdest year that I've covered. Absolutely no idea on a given night what to expect. You look at matchups and you think you got a pretty good feel for who should win the game and you have no idea. And the reason is because I think it's because I'm seeing a greater fluctuation than I've seen in the guys being available. That's been going on for a while. But the availability of players being as tumultuous as it is. That leads to some of this. But I've also seen a tremendous fluctuation. The number of nights that I've seen teams either been person when I've sat courtside calling a game, sitting at home on league pass watching the game, the fluctuation and effort. There are nights when you watch teams and you can't believe how flat they are. You know, and I've seen more of that this year than any other time, which means on any given night, anybody is capable of beating anybody. And it may sound like you think that's a cliche because it's the NBA, but normally that's not the case. If you have teams that are contenders, that are teams that are really playing for something later in the year, we all know that. And you get a team that is not or a team that's got a bunch of young dudes or a team that's clearly not really that concerned about winning games because they're trying to think about the future. Like, and you get that team on your home floor mid season in the dog days, like you're supposed to beat that team down. And I've seen more nights now where those teams have been flat or one team even in a match up where two really good teams are about to play. You're super excited about the game. And for whatever reason, one of them just comes out and they're so flat, it's almost borderline and disinterested. And you just, it leaves to these crazy scores, these really weird results. Some of the blowouts we've seen from bad teams beating down good teams, right? Not just winning like buzzer beaters, like, oh, wow, they played hard. They thought they were in the game and they eventually went, no, they beat teams by 25 and 30 points on their home floor. So I agree with you. It's been a crazy year. Now I think it's going to stabilize. I think when you get to after the all-star break, you get into early March, you're going to see some of this start to stabilize. And you're going to start to really hone in on that, whatever it may be, six, eight, ten teams. However many you are really interested in at the top, those are the teams you're going to focus on. You're going to see more consistent effort and more consistent availability of their guys at that point. I think both of those things have led to it. I think that's a good answer. I would throw in a couple ideas I had as well. The three-point shooting because there's more threes than ever. There's been more threes in the last year since, I don't know, seven straight years. And you just have these nights, like, I might be able to beat OKC if they shoot seven for 30 from three, right? Which they'll do from time to time. And you look at some of the losses they've had. They just didn't make threes. Conversely, I might be able to beat anybody if I go 20 for 42 from three. I just might, that just might be what I shoot today. And you're probably not going to beat me because I'm getting ten extra points. So I think the shooting's better. The depth is better. I think there's teams with benches this year where you look back to 2006 or you go to 2013. Nobody had benches. Like, remember that one year the nuggets were good when they had tie loss in and all those guys? I was like, the nuggets are so deep. There's like 20 teams like that now. I think that's one of the reasons the rappers have been good. Like, they can be down 10 in the first quarter and then you watch their bench just bring them back. So there's, there's depth. Then the third thing, which I did prep you on, I do feel like there's, a before and after moment happening with the coaching. I feel like we're moving into this new era of coaches and I'm looking at guys like, for instance, Jordy, Darko, Charles Lee, Mozilla, Adelman, Tiago Splitter. There's one more that I'm leaving out because I'm not. Those side guys, Mitch Johnson in there too. So Mitch Johnson. So, and I was thinking about in football when we watched this happen. At some point with like these younger guys like the McVade type guys and they came in and they were young, they were hungry, they were workaholics. And it just became harder for these old school coaches to beat like these young type guys. And this was a thing that happened in the NFL for a while. And I wonder and basketball, if this has started to happen, these guys are raised on analytics. They're raised on, they have more pieces to work with. They're like chefs in the kitchen that have like 10 different ingredients instead of four. They can kind of shape their team to a style. They can be like, you know what? Like Phoenix, we're just going to try harder than everyone else. That's going to be our style. We have one great player. We're going to be really intense. We're going to pressure everybody and we're going to come at waves. And this is just how we're going to play and then we're actually going to do it. There's just more that than ever. And I think day to day, I think it's just harder to get through the schedule. Like I'm going to press down when teams win seven and a row. I think that's like shit. Like Toronto just went four and two on the West Coast trip. I'm like, that's pretty good. Charlotte. Think what do they go? Four and two, four and three. It's like, that's impressive. Like you shouldn't be able to do that. But do you see, I know you care about this probably as much as anyone. Do you see something shifting with the coaching here? I think this is the best collection of young coaches as far as an infusion of young coaching talent that this league has ever seen. Okay. And I didn't know a lot of these guys very well. I got to spend time with them in September when I did some of those coaches corner things I was doing. And so what you see is like three minutes of film break now, but we had longer conversations than that that wasn't aired unless the longer version was on MBATV or something might have seen it there. But that was for some of these guys, you know, I like last year, I interviewed Adam on a couple of times because I had playoff games and he took over obviously right before the playoffs. So you get an opportunity to kind of meet him, but that's different in a pre game interview than really spending time and kind of like just you know, shooting the shit with them. And I was so impressed walking out of the room with all of these different guys. You just mentioned for a lot of different reasons. One is they clearly have like minds for the game that they're processing stuff and constantly trying to find ways to like make offense better, make defense better. Like their their minds are so analytical in the way they think, but they have found a way to command the room at a time when I think new coaches come in. There's just natural skepticism on the part of the players. Right. And that's always there, particularly when, you know, in some cases, guys hired from within like these guys stayed within the organization. It's a little bit easier. The players have been working with those guys already so that transitions a little bit easier, but it's still a totally different power structure. But now they're the head coach to different relationship. But the guys that have come in and they come from other places and you know that these players are not that familiar with them to be able to come in when you're young, particularly when because they made it higher. And obviously why? Because the team has not done well the last few years. There's a natural pessimism and a cynicism that exists already in the room. So you've got to come in, not only convinced them, you know what the hell you're talking about, which players are constantly seeking out fraudulent things that come out of your mouth when there's a coaching change to not buy in, when not only do you have to do that, convince them like, okay, it's got pretty smart, it's a pretty good idea. You then have to be able to have the presence, you know, to command the situation and handling both is not very easy for guys to have this many young coaches doing it at the same time. It's really high level. Look, and some of them haven't had as many wins as other guys, you know, for different reasons, you hope they get a long enough run to turn it around where they are, but that's a long list you just gave. I mean, it's basically you almost named almost a third of the league. I literally named 25. Will you throw in the San Antonio coach? That's eight of the 30. Yeah. And there are these younger guys like I look at a team like Brooklyn. That team's overachieving. Like I watch the entire Celtics net game Friday night and I wait a second. The way they move away. I love Jury. I love Jury. I tell, but I will say this, the defense at the end of over time. Oh, that's bad. That's bad to allow that three point shot. Like that's way beyond a miscommunication. I mean, I have no idea. I watched it four times in a row. I just can't replaying it because I'm thinking with like two seconds to go and you're up three, how in the world could Gonzalez get that open in the, in the quarter off an in-bounce password? No, but within 20 feet of them. Yeah. And I'm just watching like what was Michael Porter, Jr. doing? He's running with them and then just stops, changes direction. And starts running to the opposite side of the court. The same house, but there's no screen that took place. It was so bizarre that I'm not going to beat up Jury for that. But that's a brutal way to lose a game when you, when you basically stole one. It didn't look like you had a chance with three minutes of going regulation. And now it looks like you can't possibly lose at the end of over time. And somehow you find a way to let them tie it. So that's a bad loss. But I agree with you. I do think that the team is overachieving. Look at that roster. I mean, there's, there's no question about it. Then guys like Mitch Johnson and, and, and Darko, who I've always been really, thought was really sharp. He's finally getting some wins now that people are starting to buy into that. A little bit. Adamin is unbelievably bright. And he's just really cool. He's kind of funny when you get to hang around. I mean, personality. Going nine and five without, without a judge. And then Murray leaves halfway through that. And they're still like succeeding and he's getting stuff out of the end. And all the other guys that have been out already, when you know, Christian Brown's been out, Aaron Gordon's been out. So you look at the totality of what they are and knowing their best punch by far is going to come over the last six weeks of the regular season. So, so we know, and we're going to get into that. Like what does that mean overall for how we view, like what this could look like at the end of the year? Because I think it looks a lot different than any of us thought two months into the season for a variety of reasons. And we're going to have to talk to those teams as well. I was thinking with a basketball analysis. There was a specific moment. And I was in the middle of it because I was writing for you as pan and weed Grantland where you could feel the discourse about basketball like changing in real time, right? And it was the old school way of like, oh, he's really good in the clutch. And you would just kind of say that. And then all of a sudden, we started to get numbers. And we started looking at five man lineups. And I remember I've talked about this before, but the, when I was on countdown that first year and Rudy Gay got traded and we had this whole argument about, well, what do they can do with that Rudy Gay? That's their guy at the end of games. And we had enough data at that point. But it's like, he's actually not that good at the end of games. They might be fine. And then they went on a run and it felt like this before and after a moment for analytics. And I'm starting to wonder with coaches. It's not like coaches weren't using all this stuff for the last 10 to 12 years because they were. I think what's changed is these first time coaches, younger guys are coming in. They know how to explain it to their teams and craft different lineups that the players are buying into, right? It's not, it's not like, hey, I have this wacky idea and you have your fingers crossed. They're going to do it. Like the teams are buying in. I see a team like Phoenix. The team should not be 10 games over 500. I'm sorry. But when you watch them, it makes sense because the I test is telling you like, yeah, these guys are just, they play really well together. They're all in the right spots. They knew who the best guy in the team is. They game the threes correctly. They have enough room protection size. They can guard the other teams best player. Like this makes sense as I watch it. But if you look at their roster, I'm basketball reference. They're like, this doesn't make sense. I don't get it. And that makes you make you make a great point for this. And this is, this is why like think about now the difference in mentality. If you've got a guy that's been around a while. Okay. He knew the other way. There was another standard way of kind of analyzing like lineups and it was mostly the eyeball test and like, you're gut feeling. And the numbers weren't a big part of what they were doing on a daily basis to process like what their team was about. These guys are so young. That's all they've known. So from the time they really first started getting to a place where they're starting to, you know, ascend a little bit within an, on an NBA bench. That's all they've known. This has been around long enough that it is completely influenced the way that these particular group of guys analyze their teams. Yeah. So you didn't have to sell any of these guys on it. They already utilized it prior to becoming head coaches and in a lot of ways, that's all they know. So I think that they are more willing to like look at that stuff. It's I think sometimes it can be overused, but there's no question. It has a major bearing and change your reticle. You can be another guy. You could throw into the mix. Also, by the way, really young coach recently retired coach, you're talking about a guy that's like diving into the analytics. I mean, that's, that's like such a big part of what he was doing when he was in media and what he's as a player. So he just rolled that right into now the way that he kind of used his team as well, there's so many coaches in the league now that that's just par for the course. That's that's the way they've always done it because they're so young and it's influenced the way they coach. And I think there is some really good stuff that comes out of that as a result, different combinations that you didn't know were that good because in the past, you wasn't enough data to back that up. And now you're going to smaller sample size. It's kind of go, wow, that's interesting. Maybe I'll give that group a little bit more run. If there's something to that, you're going to find out. Yeah, the Celtics had that wash. I test wise. Look, thank you. It was playing really well. But there were lineups that were just better when he wasn't in them, right? And they started gravitating toward this house or lineup. Yeah. And if you look at like their best five man lineups, houses usually in the best one. I don't know. There might be the spacing he does offensively. He's kind of an underrated offender too. But for whatever reason, he's the one that fits. And you mentioned JJ because I think JJ is probably has the most frustrated and team to coach out of all these teams because you have these, these offense only stars. You don't know when they're going to guard anybody. They don't really fit together. But he figured out I just got to play Rui as much as possible. And I got to start moving away from eight. Right. And that's what's happened with them in the last week. They're moving eight and it's kind of you can see it happening real time. He's getting shoved out. They're going with Rui with Luca with LeBron and that's in Marcus smart. And they'll try to figure out who that fifth spot is. And that's and I'm sure there's a bunch of advanced stuff they're looking at. Like this is actually when we have these four together. This is probably our best chance. And Rui has been the secret sauce for them. One thing I had before we get to the Power Pole. And we say this every year, but I feel like it matters more than I've ever been thinking about a lot this year, the difference between being a good regular season team and being a good playoff team. Because when we go into this Power Pole, there's some teams I don't know where to put because obviously in April and May, I'm going to trust them more than some of the teams that are in the Power Pole. And there's some regular season teams. I get team like Toronto. If you have depth during the regular season, that's great. In a playoffs, there is that probably feel pretty good about going against them. But game to game week to week road trips, you want like a deeper team. Maybe the Celtics could be like that because their bench has been good. I don't know. But do you feel like this is a more pronounced chasm than ever between what do I trust when I'm watching here in the regular season verse in the playoffs? Might just going to feel differently about this team completely because I think some of the teams that have been great stories and they've surprised us and it's been great. It's been refreshing because it gives you more teams to talk about, which is great for us. Yeah. You know, give me more to dive into Toronto, Phoenix, like teams like that, like being where they're at, that's great. And they kind of surprised us. But individually, when you start looking at some of these teams, and it's going to be interesting because they were going to talk about the Power Pole. Like some of these teams, like obviously we know who's so several of these teams that it's very, very top. Like kind of know that, okay, these teams legitimately can make a deep run go all the way. Who knows? Then there's going to be that next group where you're going to, you're trying to analyze, like picturing them having to win multiple playoffs series or even one playoff series. And you start thinking about matchups. And now the sudden some of these teams you realize, like, I don't know if they're going to win four times against some of those teams because there's no track record there. So there's an uncertainty about how some of these teams are going to handle that situation. I mean, even a team like Detroit, as great as they've been, truth is they haven't won a playoff series. And to win a playoff series is a lot different than battling the next, you know, given them all they could handle last year. That's a lot different than finishing off those games, winning four times against a really good team. It's different. Now look, they're not going to have to play a top tier team in the first round. So you would think, home court advantage Detroit should be okay. And now they'll say, whoa, there you go. Now they've got a playoff series went under the belt. That that should make things a lot different. I'm talking about beating teams that can come close to looking you in the eye, right? That that's different. Winning four times against them when you've got no experience in doing that collectively. And you've got a bunch of young guys. You don't know how certain guys are going to react when they get into that situation. And guys that are giving you that little burst and punch now and giving nice to help you. Well, it's a fine line between those same players having a 30% shooting series. And now it's like really tough, man. Those minutes that were so great in the right of season. And it's harder now with particular groups because certain guys are really struggling in the playoffs for a variety of reasons. So that's why I think there is a lot of uncertainty with that second tier of teams that are trying to crack through and make us believe like they could be a conference finalist or a finalist. Like that next group beyond the top two or three, that's when he gets a lot more interesting this conversation. Well, there's even a couple teams in that one big group where I watch like the Celtics had a really interesting game against the pistons last week. And one of the things that was happening was they were just like, we're just not going to guard Thompson. Yeah. Good luck. Ironically, that's also happening in some of the Houston games or teams are going. Yeah, we're just like, no, good luck. Let we're going to let him go. And in a playoffs series when you're putting the same team seven games, that's the stuff that starts pulsating. Like Detroit and the South of the game found something against Garza. They just started attacking him. Not so coincidentally, like all of a sudden, Mario Williams is in the Celtics rotation. Garza didn't play last night. Like maybe he was hurt. I don't know. But it was one of those moments where it was like, shit. I don't know if we can play Garza in the playoffs here because Detroit's just like feasting on him in these five minutes. And that's kind of stuff you tuck away for later. The other thing is like when I think about teams like the NAICS Minnesota, whoever, like if you have a top eight player, I'm just, you're on my, I'm taking you seriously less, no matter how you're looking over the stretch. I do want to see you put together like one nice 15 to 20 game stretch. So they're in the season, which I think we'll talk about the Quippers in a second. But like the Quipper is going 15 and three and 18 games is meaningful. Like this is getting into the corner. Still amazed at the number of conversations that I'm, that I'm having here over the last couple of weeks, whether in the industry, or outside the industry, just like basketball fans that are friends of ours, right? I, that they're just not remotely convinced that you better take notice. Like because they're not just like winning. I think you know, when you go, whatever day, we're 621 at the start, I guess maybe people just completely think I don't have to watch the Quippers anymore the rest of the year. We do. It's our job. So you're still paying attention. They start winning some games. You're like, okay, that's interesting. 15 and three 18 games in basically a, a five to six week period of time when their defensive numbers have, have shifted to this extent is something you have to pay attention to. They have held teams in that 18 game stretch. 11 times to 105 points or less 105 in today's NBA, right? Is like 90, but I played like that's what it feels like. If you hold a team under 110 points, it's like, you know, wow, they really got after it tonight. They just did it 11 times in the last 18 games. And, and it reminds me of what they were doing last year defensively when I, I called a few of their games and I was so impressed with their ability to pressure the ball all over the floor and their length and their quickness to recover for each other. And of course, and Kauai was healthy most of that time. They're back to playing that level defense. And they're getting incredible offensive years out of their two best players. So how can you not notice? And it's like, it's also like, it's like a string of wins. Oh, yeah. They're getting like, these are some good teams that they've knocked off. So I'm listening. I've got one eye on them at all times now. This ascension, and you think about what I'm talking about, they've only gotten to 10th. I mean, that's how far they were buried. Even 15 out of 18 and you're still 10th. That's where they were 13 to 1 to win the division. Yeah, their last 18 there plus 8.9 per 100. They're fourth in the league. But the you mentioned Kauai. He's averaging the last 18 he missed two. He played 16. He's averaging 32 in the in the games that he played. And he's 51 43 92 and looks like Kauai. I mean, I test wise, this is 2017 Kauai. It looks like so. Anyway, we'll take a break. And then we're going to go through the powerful because we are stuff to cover. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by Fandall. It's the last call for football and Fandall makes me so sad. One final Sunday, one last kick off the final chance to place your bets before the NFL season closes. It's tab. I'm sad. If you're a new customer, bet $5 get $200 in bonus bets. If you win, make account because after the Super Bowl, the season's over and football is officially done. I'm still sad. Last call for football and Fandall an official sports book partner of Super Bowl 60. Visit fandall.com slash BS to get started. Must be 21 plus and president select states are 18 plus and president DC Kentucky or Wyoming. First online real money wage or only $5 first pie is required bonus issued as non-double bonus petriots expire 70s after receipt restrictions apply. Seat terms at sportsbook.com, game problem call win Andrew Gambler visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. All right. So I separated in groups. We'll just rip through this group. I want to talk about one team. And if there's a team in this group, you're excited about flag it after. Number 30 is Washington. They have the worst net rate. They're minus 11. One and I know last 10. I think they've settled into we want to stink. We want to get top four picked number 29. I have Milwaukee. This is no, yeah, I'm not Milwaukee. He's not playing for another six weeks. I actually think their two through 12 is the worst two through 12 in the league. I want to get your take on that. I think I don't think any other team in the league would trade their two through 12 from Milwaukee's two through 12. I mean, I think for that particular question, if I really wanted to just give you like definitive answer, I would probably need to right now pull up two through 12 on four or five different needs. But my point is this. You're not crazy for throwing out into the conversation. Yeah. I mean, look at the roster. It's brutal. It's it's it's brutal. It's an and and and you look at what's happening to them now. Like when you combine the roster with now the level like what they're dealing with psychologically, not having him and the one differentiating factor for your team every night is having that force and not having that combined that roster. I think you probably have put them appropriately where they belong as long as he's out. So they the biggest wrinkle with them is they get the worst of the first pick between them and New Orleans. So in a weird way, if the season goes south and they end up being one of the eight worst teams, it's not the worst thing in the world. The what's killed them is I don't think they could trade Yannis. Zack did a thing on his podcast yesterday with Mo about. Is this actually still okay that they can trade Yannis or did this make this impossible and not really landing either way? I'm more in the I don't I don't know who's trading for him with all this stuff you'd have to give up, not knowing if he's going to even be back in April. Plus he's had this injury multiple times. To me, it's a complete stay away. I'll revisit in the summer. Show me your healthy. I can't see anyone doing that. Do you agree with that? I first of all, that would be the approach I would take. Um, not I'm not saying I wouldn't want to try to acquire Yannis or Tukubo, but with the number of times now that he's been dealing with this injury and me needing to see like this motivated Yannis in the summer, healthy Yannis in the summer. Yes, I think there are teams that you do what you have to to make a run in him. I kind of agree with the uncertainty right now of when you're going to see him again at full strength and the possibility because you know, it's going to be tight then with the playoffs. Is he going to be coming back and like forcing himself onto the court because he wants to make a run with some team? And is that mean he ends up re-injuring himself into playoffs anyway and you've given up a ton. Now, if you've got more of a longer term view and it's not just about trying to get it done this year, I don't know, maybe you do it anyway because he's just so intriguing because of how dominant he is. And I think how highly motivated he would be with a change of scenery and what that could do to reinvigorate him. I would still think about it. I'm going to thought, Paul, this for you. Would you trade for anybody about to hit their mid 30s who is a big guy with a lot of miles of them with all the evidence that we've seen at this point? Would you give up the farm? What are the success stories here? Like even KG when the Celtics got him in 08 and he's probably 31, he broke down a year later. Chris Weber, Dwight Howard broke down a bunch of times. Go on, Shaq started, he started to have the injuries in the mid 2000s. I would just get really nervous about trading for big guys with miles and there's been a couple outliers and then when you go smaller and you get to like the LeBron size, there's probably more success. But the taller guys, I don't know, I'd be really nervous to do it. This is to me, the Yannis, if they were like, hey no, he's going to be back in late March. You should trade for him. It's like somebody offering you the nicest car ever. And it's like, it was just in the shop for the seventh time, but it's going to be great. The mechanic said he fixed this one thing you have. You should get it. It'll be awesome. I'm standing out. I'm standing there garage. I'm looking at that car for a long time. Like, man, this is a nice car. How fast does it go? The only thing they're not going to let you do is test drive it though. That's the problem. Right. You just got to go, you got to buy as is. It's an as is contract. They're showing the eclipse of the 2021 race that it won going 220 miles an hour. If you don't have a chance. And you mean while you're on the side like googling car facts, trying to get that report, you know, the commercial with the cute fox. We see all the time like I'm going to go to that website. What's that? You know, and yes, that's a good point. But I'm telling you, I mean, I'd be I'd be I'd be looking at that car for a while, trying to make up my plan and you sleep on that decision. Yeah, if you're at Lano, you've never been in a race. That's the thing. You know, exactly. Maybe this is a one chance to get him. Okay. Number 28, Brooklyn. Number 27, Sacramento. They've both basically have 12 wins. Number 26 in Deanna, who I think is a noble 11 and 36 team. Man, I actually think they play hard and give a shit and they just don't have enough talent, sadly. Has any but has any player like, I don't know, earn more respect on an 11 win team that pass out. Siac right. Every night and I watch the patients a lot just because I don't know, the guys on that team are kind of interested in. So I watch the patients. A good amount. I like that. And I'm watching Siacum play. Yeah. And I'm watching this guy. And if you have no idea when you when you turn it on to watch the game, you had no idea what the record was. What's going on? Like you're just like watching this guy that looks exactly like he did when he was playing for the Toronto and they won a championship exactly like he did last year. The last two years with Indiana, last year going to the finals like, you don't know there's any difference in his demeanor approach, effort, intensity, like all leadership, like all of that stuff. And it's led to 11 wins. Like that's how decimated they've been. But I've got a lot of respect for the way he's carried himself this season. McConnell's another one, Nemhard. There's guys on that team that are still carrying themselves like they did last spring. And at some point, they're going to have to take Pascale for a nice stake and explain to him that his calf needs some maintenance and he might need to take four to five weeks off. That the trainer was mildly concerned. And it's just for the safety of everybody, we're just going to have to sit you for a little bit and get you ready for next year. We're almost there with the Pacers because this will be a miracle. You throw away one year, you get Haliburton back next year and you could potentially get a tie. Here's the thing. Here's the one thing I'll say about them. Yeah. You think about how quickly they immediately reemerge on the scene of relevant teams as soon as they get Haliburton back. Okay. They desperately need a five. And there's a list of them. There's eight or nine of them that are out there. Some are more interesting. And others some I don't think you can get. But there's a list out there and you can pull it up just about anywhere. The number of centers that are like kind of at least cut their names come up. Some I think it's absolutely pipe for you. You're never going to get them. Some I wouldn't want. And then there's a few and you kind of go, man, if you can add that with giving up what they would have to give up to get it. And now next year you go in with Ciacum and Haliburton and a five that fits your style. Man, that's something I think that they're going to look hard at. And I'll be very surprised actually if they don't make a move before the training deadline to try to acquire one of those centers. So you think they would put their number one pick on the table? I don't know if they'd put the number one pick. I think there's internal conversations that are probably taking place because that's beauty. And I have to be holder. If you think that for instance, those top three picks, which a lot of people are talking about are absolute Kent misses, the Bonsa Peterson, Booser. If you think all three of those guys are man, these are franchise guys and we're going to be in that mix. You probably don't do that. If you think, hey, man, there's a chance we don't want to get into top three and we don't know that we love it after that. Even though I think it's a good draft class and I think there's going to be even diamonds in the rough found probably 15 through 25 that always is. They would, does that young player like, does that serve them well? That's going to take a few years for him to hit a stride when they were so close a year ago. As opposed to, I'm not talking about picking up a 34-year-old center. If you can get a guy about like, Jaren Jackson, like, Jaren Jackson, we'll discuss Jaren Jackson, but we want your own protective first. Even a guy like a lower level, maybe a lower lower caliber player than that, like a Nick Clackston, like someone like that, like that's a young, that runs, that you don't have to run plays for that can defend that will fit your style in pace because he's got stamina. Like a guy like that, if you're talking about giving up, not the number one pick. If you're talking about giving up something else on your roster that they would be, it would be intriguing to them either because it could be a salary dump or it's a, you get a top five protected. Like, we'll trade in whatever, but we need top five protection or you get our next year's thing. Yeah, we'll see because what I like about them and the Celtics losing their best guys, but somehow keeping some sort of infrastructure what they had last year, the Celtics did it more successfully. But when you watch Indiana, like, they don't stink, like, they might be overmatched some nights, but they do play like they did last year. So that I have them 26 New Orleans, I have 25, they're 12 and 36. All these teams have 12 or 11 wins that we just rattled off. I want to flag New Orleans really quickly though because I think they're a sneaky, important trade machine team. Not just because Zion, I think every team in the week probably is had a Zion meeting at this point. Let's just, let's just do a one hour. Bob, Bob is going to do a Zion presentation for us. We're going to go through the pros and cons. Like they're all doing it. Murphy, they've tried to make it seem like they wouldn't trade them. I refuse to believe that. I think they're playing it smartly, but if somebody's going to give them the Bayon Bridges offer, they're just, it would be irresponsible not to do it. But then they have Missy at 3.3. They have Sadiq Bay at 6.1 and 6.4 the next two years. They have Alvarado at 4.5. They've Looney at 8. Expiring. They have some fun little levers to push for contenders. Like somebody, I look like Alvarado. There's five teams that he would just be fun on in the playoffs, right? But you put them on the pistons and he would just be like, I am rolling up my sleeves. Who are we fighting? You know, so I don't know what they're going to do, but I feel like we'll be hearing from them. And Missy is also one of those guys on that short list of centers that would be in trading for Indiana. I think it will. And especially with Derek Queen there, you know, obviously, Missy becomes completely expendable in that situation. Here's the thing, like I agree with you when you said about Train Murphy. I mean, look, I love him, but I don't know. They want to make it seem like there's nothing that you can offer me that would give him. I don't know if I believe that. I know there's like, when it comes to Zion, they seem like there's stuff they put out there. It's like, no, no, we're committed to Zion. I don't know that I would be willing to give up anything to get it. I just I'd be far too concerned to give up a lot of stuff with value for Zion Williamson with his track record. And the part of his game that drives me nuts because he's such a unique force and talent entertaining as well. How's the guy get six rebounds again? I mean, I love this. This is one of my corners. I mean, I just started this. You can't do you rebounds a game when you're built like that with that kind of athleticism. Yeah. There's one reason and one reason only you don't go off it enough. It's that simple. It's that simple. And if particularly for Zion Williamson, particularly look at his career, he had 2.7 offensive rebounds as first two seasons in the league. You know, obviously not a ton of games, but he's never been since then like over 2.5. To me, that's a guy that should be three and a half to four offensive rebounds a game. And if you watch him play, the reason it doesn't happen, Zion's that guy that if there's a shot by somebody else and he happens to be anywhere from the third hash up the lane to the foul line, you're 12 to 15 feet from the rim, very rarely design Williamson go. He starts immediately back pedaling. And it's so that it just tell you it's a mentality because the mentality is if I go and don't get it, damn, that's a long run to the other end of the form. And that's that's what that's the impression I get is talented as he is and it's just like unique in what he can do and how difficult he is to deal with when he's healthy and playing right. That has always bothered me. I've never understood. I think he is one of the most underachieving rebounds in the NBA. And it's it doesn't make sense to me because there's no way that guy should not be getting a ton of double digit rebounds games. You may double digit rebounds games. He's think about this. Double digit rebounds game. Now last two, he's had 10 and 11 against San Antonio Memphis. You have to go back to October 24th to find his last 10 rebound game. That's incredible to me. When you look at a guy like Josh Hart, right? It doesn't make any sense. And so it's just like that combined with the injury history. I'm just like, I don't know if I want any part of it. The you also made the case why you would want a part of it if you felt like you had a good team with a good coach and a good infrastructure and you could kind of shove him in the correct directions. That's a touch of something to this. I got news for you. You could put him on any team in history with whatever direction you want. And if that guy doesn't want to run to the rim from 12 feet when someone takes a corner three, he ain't never going to like that's not that's not about infrastructure and leadership in the locker room and like accountability. That guy either wants to or he doesn't and he has now played 240 what's done. Blewax long 246 games in six years. It's kind of incredible. He's got 246 games under his belt. And I don't recall really what that he is. Interesting. Well, if you cut if you cut him a mixed tape of BJ edge comb and Hugo Gonzalez being in the corner seeing somebody about to shoot and veering toward the rim at full speed to just see if they can get a hand on anything. Maybe that maybe the light bulb would quick for him. Hey, you could also do this. Watch how these guys just move because somebody else was shooting. They might be able to dunk it or get it. I would I would the ship is out for that day because of how much I've enjoyed watching Zion Williams and play. Yeah, he's healthy. It's just a long track record of that one particular thing. You can be a real difference maker on the glass. It's a major majorly important quality to bring finishing off defensive possessions to giving your team extra possessions on a given night. They're so critical to do those things on nights when maybe you don't shoot well or for him. I'm also thinking you get another two, three offense or rebound some nights. That's a guaranteed probably with his quickness off his feet. That's another four to six points. Plus some of those might be and ones like just from your own production. You could take your scoring average up five points if you just wanted to go more. And so that's that with that's my big concern with Zion. His name is always going to come up because he's so intriguing. And I just think we're six years in. And I think you know when you're on a team that's got the worst record in the NBA and you've been out a lot again this year and the rebounding numbers are with you. I think add all that up. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. The case you just made is my case for a while. I'm not crazy about J.R. and Jackson. He's 5.7 rebounds in game. Let's you're 100% to a quarter. I've said that on the air when I've called Memphis games. I haven't no, I haven't called a New Orleans game this year for obvious reasons. But yeah, we did call a Memphis game and it's it's the same thing. I think the same way like why are his rebounding numbers not better now. The one thing though, I will say this. He does do this and this can cost him maybe some defensive rebound challenging. Exactly right. When you're last slanted defense and you're trying to get most things at the rim, you are bypassing opportunities to rebound by doing that. Yeah, that's fair. But here's the thing. I like J.R. and Jackson and Zion, and I'm not sure if I watched the New Orleans game the more or night, Zion on the inside slot every every opponent's free throw is J.R. and Jackson. How does that not three a game? West for a finger that out 12 years ago. Right there. You're halfway to their current total. Right. So you don't mean it's like how does that how does that not translate to a side? J.R. and Jackson has always got my head, but he all around game, you know, the all around amount of energy he's expending defensively. I think I'll give him a little bit more of a pass than Zion. You know what? I would say Tim Legler. Some guys are just getting rebounding. Even when you play like pickup or when you play at a high school or in your case college on the pros, some guys just have a knack for it. He's six foot three. He just goes and gets rebounds. He knows where they're going to go. Derek White's really good at it. Weirdly as a guard. Just can study the patterns. He's good instincts for it. Some guys just suck at it. Finishing the drags. Utah, 24 and Memphis, 23 at 18 and 26. I just don't think it's going to happen for them and we can move to the next group. This group is a one team group. It's called Panic Time. And I put Orlando in here at 22. Even though they have a winning record, their net rating is minus 0.6. Their last 25 games, Legs, their 11 and 14, their 25th and net rating. And I test wise, I have a real problem with this team. And we talked about, I don't want to throw Jamal Mosley under the bus, but we talked about some of the great coaches we've added. This is a team that to me does not look well coached. I don't know what they're doing. I don't understand it. I think the effort comes and goes. They just seem like the ball finds the wrong person at the wrong times and the wrong spots of the game. And I think they're incredibly frustrating to watch. Here's what, here's what, here's why I can't, I don't know if I can go with the coaching thing for this reason. Okay. Last year. And again, I haven't, I called in Orlando game this year. A cement person is definitely different for me as an analyst. I pick up on a lot of stuff that I can't see when I'm watching on TV at home. But look, you know what I mean, they just lost four straight games by total of 75 points, I believe. You know, Vogueers out again. They bear him and that caro barely had any chance to establish rhythm. But here's why the coaching thing would be bothersome to me. If like, that were true because last year. I had as much respect for the way that that team competed and defended is anybody in the league. I mean, when I watched the magic play and I watched them and I called games where they only had one of their stars and they're going up against like teams that were like top five teams in the NBA. And I'm and they're in position to win these games. And in some cases did. And one particular stands out when they broke, Cleveland had that long winning streak mid season like 15 games, and they beat them in Cleveland on a Sunday, ABC game. That's game. I remember that one. Oh, it was an incredible game and they didn't, they they're want to was so impressive. And so when I see that in a team like I'm going to go ahead in most times and I'm going to give the coach credit in that situation. Right now now some of it maybe just internally certain guys just play hard. They just show up play a great. You got the right guys in your building. But you know, we can't just dismiss that if a team's playing hard. If we're going to beat up a coach when the team doesn't look like they're playing hard, if they are playing hard, I'm always going to give credit to the coach. He's establishing some sort of culture in there. His message is resonating with these guys to certain extent. They're buying in for them to play that hard a year ago. But can that fade away though? I mean, it can, but it would be surprising to do that from one year to the next when they've had as you know, their dark top guys have been so much time as they have. It's almost like a built in reason why it's a struggle some nights. But look, when you lose four games the way they just did and look to Memphis Charlotte right now who could put up numbers on you and Cleveland could put up numbers. I thought those aren't like hard. But it's, you know, it's off stretch man. Three of those four were at home and you're not really in the game in the last six minutes. It's alarming. That's why that's why I brought it up and put it up. You're right. The only thing I could say for it is a good place to put them. I think that's a good good way to sum it up. Like they put it this way. It's go time. Like if you're going to hit another gear. Yeah. It's going to have to start now. But what's funny is I thought that was going to be like a week and a half ago. I was looking at their schedule. They were like, I don't know, 23 and 18 or something. It was like, okay, if we're going to hear from this team, it's going to start right around now and it went the other way. Their best five is still plus 18 per 100. I guess is the one good thing about them. But I, they're almost like a take off the league pass team for me. Like I don't want them on a TV anymore. I don't, I don't like watching them and make me mad. All right. Next category, four teams, the play in dreamers, starting with Dallas 19 and 27. I feel like they're better than 19 and 27, especially with the injury like they've had. But I, on the right night, if you catch that, I feel like they can hang with just about anybody. I wanted to mention Max Christie. Yeah. I think has officially reached your insulting him. If you don't mention him when you recap the Luca trade and you just say Luca Frey-D. I think Christie's become a legitimate asset. He's 22. He's put together two months now where he's like 16 a game and like 45% from three. He can handle the ball. I thought he was coming on a little for the Lakers last year, but ironically has become a bigger asset for them than Anthony Davis. So just wanted to mention that. That's the perfect context and perspective to put him in because you're 100% right. He was not even mentioned when that trade went down. That was like even though I knew steak knives. No, no doubt. And I knew how much how much JJ valued him because he had had conversations about him. Like that was tough for him to part with him. But you know, there was just so much focus on, you know, arguably, it's just the worst trade in the history of team sports. Yeah. You know, he's going to get lost in all of that conversation, particularly AD went down right away and look at it takes a, at the time like a role player a little bit longer even to get comfortable when a trade like that happens because your touches are infrequent. Like your shots, you're a little bit kind of feeling things out. And now you look at the way this guy's playing now and every night now you're expecting him, you know, his his floor now is like, you know, a double digit scoring night. And then like his average game is like 16 and then like his ceiling is now in the 20s. And he sits with flag, which is the only thing that really, really matters here. He actually makes sense on a basketball court with Cooper flag, which is very trying to find out. And even right by the way, they're better in the record. I think a lot of it being this like if Christie's playing this well from the very beginning, if Cooper flag didn't have to take, you know, some time, you know, at 18 years old to try to figure out the league a little bit, they would be closer to 500 than they are right now. It's been a great story. And they play hard as hell every night. Yeah, there are no way to play. You can just see it. You could see the other teams. The thing with flag, like he's not shooting the three well at all. I think he's 20 percent. But everything else, like when you consider how young he is and he's at the same age, Kobe was when Kobe came in and or maybe he's like six months old than Kobe KG when KG came in, the brown and the bronc came in. You just know this is the floor and it's a really good floor. Right. He's so good with the worst. He's ever going to be right now. Yeah, I did that's a great point. And that's why I look, you know, I used the expression can't miss with him coming out. And I kind of felt the way he got before he got to Duke. I'm like, yeah, no, no, this guy, like because he's got a nasty competitive edge to him, even though he's got like a, like a, that little boy smile on his face, like he has a meanness to him and a toughness for being challenged for the last like five years on, on the high profile, like youth circuit into Duke, like he was challenged and every night he took to court, people were coming for him. And he just wanted, you know, he wanted all of it. So you kind of knew, but man, is he better with the mid range pull ups and push shots. Yeah. We got 10 foot area. These really difficult shots and they go to him to decide games. It's kind of incredible, really. What he's been able to do in the fourth quarter of close games. So man, how much better will this guy be even in two months? It's credible. Quick question. So they're 19 and 27. If they had Kyrie this whole year from game one, what's their record? How many wins is he worth? You think? They're definitely over five. I think they're honestly, I think they're like 30 and 16. Yeah. I think he would, I think he would have swung like 12 games. Yeah. I mean, look, so you're talking about 11 more wins than they have right now. Yeah. I mean, look, Kyrie's that great. But again, you know, and then the game stuff he would have brings in. Yeah. I'm just saying healthy Kyrie from game one with this exact roster. I just think he's exactly what they need. That's why I'm kind of hoping he comes back because if you put him in with everything I'm watching, I'm like, I'm kind of interested in this thing. I'd probably take it as far as flipping the numbers 19 and 27 19. 27 19. That's probably where I would go. So Dallas 21. I have Atlanta at 20. I don't want to talk about them. I can't quit them. Every time I'm out, they have some sort of fun game. Forget it. 19 Portland. This is interesting. So they're 23 and 24. They're last 15. They're 10 and five where they beat Houston twice. Say, Antonio, the Lakers and Atlanta. They had this crazy billup situation to start the year plus Scoot Henderson got hurt. How they got hurt like three weeks in. I've known they had their 500 and I don't really know what I would do if I was their GM because you could argue they should be a seller. You could also argue they say like I got an email from a reader a listener named Dylan who said, Jada Portland, why not? Why not Scoot and expirings? Which they have the expirings. Scoot, thigh bone, Rob Williams for J. Like, why not? And I was sitting and I was reading the email going, yeah, why not? Why not roll the dice? See what you have? Maybe you're a buyer. You could also go the other way and start selling off some players and trying to take what would you do? I mean, that sounds a little bit low for John Moran, but at the same time his market value is just taking nobody wants them plunge. It's and that's just like, you know, everything you're hearing is like it's really, it's really, you know, becoming absolutely buyers market because here's the thing, even if you think, you know, man, you know, we might we might not have to give up that much to get them. And you kind of come to terms that like we're not giving up anything we really want to get John Moran, you then have to think about incorporating him into what you have going on with the players you do like. Right. And what does that look like? And that's a whole other conversation where with some of these guys, maybe it's injuries, right? But it's not like that. Like, how's you going to fit with these guys? How hard is he to coach? Like all of that stuff? Some guys just like injuries. How do we do we roll the dice? Is it going to like that it's obvious team and not his things like that? Exactly. Look, if you're Portland now, some part of me would think like, what have you got to lose? You know, I mean, I felt I on the one hand, there's a lot of red flags. And it's as you said, a buyer's market for job. On the other hand, he's 26. Like, you have a chance to get a guy who three years ago would have been like number seven in my trade value column. You're stealing him and he hasn't seems like relatively healthy. He keeps having these small injuries. Why not? I don't know. I think about it. There's probably two or three teams in the league that I would put in a category of, I mean, come on. What the hell have you got to lose? When you really look at who they have and what ultimately they're stealing is, you kind of look at their roster, Portland's and obviously has been incredible. But this, this is, I mean, obviously, obviously, it's not going to average 32 next year. Like, you know, I mean, he's playing great. And I actually think I actually think the guys got a great case to be an all star with what he's done in there. And you know, how well they've played for the last one. He's definitely an all star for me. He's got to be. He's got to be. But it's funny. I just, you know, I've always constantly looking at how people view it and I've kind of put mine out there on the all city podcast. I put my reserves out there and I gave him a spot. But it's, if you look around and where people are speculating, it's not like you're probably, that's like a guarantee. I think he's pretty close. Yeah. 26 and like, you know, somebody watching Portland. The other job team is number 18, I'm a list of Chicago Bulls who are 23 and 23. The only reason I mentioned them is they have expirings they could put together. You know, they, maybe they could put Kobe, white and it. But their style of play, I actually would think would be pretty fun for him. You know, it's basically balls to the wall. They're going up and down. The balls constantly moving. People are just attack attack attack. Billy Donnelly. I like that one a lot. I don't know. I don't mind that one. I get, no, I really like that one because again, there are limitations on their roster that are not going to change. You know, I mean, it's not like they've got that young guy that was a top five picked, you know, in the last couple of years that isn't ready now. But you're like, man, this is what we're going to be building around this franchise player. Now you're adding jaw to that. No, I wouldn't do that. That they don't have that. So that, that team has like a finite ceiling. And so John Morant. Yeah. Now, you know, would, would Billy Donnelly Donnelly Donnelly Donnelly don't know, he'd want to sign up for it. I mean, does he want to go 40 and 42 for the next nine years or like at some point? No, I just want to take a swing somewhere. And listen, at least, and I was there the other night. I was in the building for the, you know, the Derek Rose game party. I'm thinking of myself if somebody's going to replicate some of those highlights, that's the guy. That's the guy. All right. One more break. And then we're going to do the rest of the list. And now it's time for today's with the assist segment presented by state farm. And basketball, the best players don't just go it alone. They lean on teammates coaches, even fans to push them to be better. And we've seen some pretty iconic assists over the years as a Celtics fan. Probably the assist team. I was the most afraid of was magic Johnson and cream of the ultra bar in the 80s, especially as magic got better and better. Cream got older and older. They had a little flip when magic came to the league. Cream was probably the best part in the league or one of the best two or three. And then by the time we got to the mid 80s, cream was older. Magic was becoming one of the two or three best players in the league, but they still figured out how to work together. 1985 finals famously. Cream just took over the finals, killed the Celtics, wins the finals MVP 14 years after the first time he won two years later. They win again. Guess who wins? Magic Johnson. Like basketball, life is easier with great assist. Like the way those two guys helped each other. State Farm is here to dish one your way. They're not just an insurance company. They're a teammate who's on your bench ready to listen to assist and help you get the right coverage when it matters most state farm with the assist coverage options are selected by the customer availability and eligibility vary by state. The fork in the rotors, number 17 gold state, number 16 Miami, I would love to punt on talking about either of those teams if that's okay. I'm totally fine with that. I talk to say about that. Number 15, I have not had enough to say. This group is called the Wild Card. The Charlotte Hornets. Now 19 and 28 in their last 25, they're 13 and 12. They're best for guys with Diabate plus 26.5 per 100. It's been exciting to watch. Zach Lone, I've been fighting about then some December. I had him on my podcast. We did league pass rankings. I had them six. He mocked me. He made fun of me. He said, what are you thinking? I'm like, I'm buying whatever's going on there. I like that team. Lamello came back and started to look like Lamello and then this Diabate piece. Now this team has, they've had, they have some real wins. They went in the West Coast and they had one of those West Coast trips where it was like, wow, they could go on seven. This could be a disaster, fought through it, put a couple of wins up. Their only stinker was a game you did last week. You probably saw their worst game of the last couple of weeks unfortunately, but give me your Charlotte thoughts. Well, that's obviously where I was going to go first. I'm the same. Every of my guilty pleasure bad team. That's why I described them and they started to become a little bit more than bad team. I like watching them. They're fun. Here you go. They're on our national TV schedule. Could wait. Charlotte pardon. Somebody asked me when somebody asked me walking into building. Like, were you here last year to call a game? I said, the last time I was in this building, I think I was guarding Del Curry. I said, so I don't know. We haven't been here. And actually, ironically, they announced that night at the game that Del Curry is going to have his jersey red card, which is a very, very cool thing. But so here we go. I'm excited. We all were bringing myself Richard. We sit down or ready to do the game. We did a, we did a feature with Conn Canippel before the game. We broke down some is off-ball movements and stuff. It's really excited. And then they scored 32 points in the first half. And I think Lamella was one for 15 in the game over 10 from the three. They just stunk. Now look, they had a horrible night. But at the same time, it's like, okay, you didn't really show me anything. And I don't think I had anything to do with national TV being in the building. I just don't think that's going to affect guys that much. Or anything like that. I know. I think that was a little bit. That was like their biggest game in the air and they stunk. Maybe a little. And they looked like that for two months. That was the worst thing they played during the coaches interview. Charles Lee walks out of the room. And the last thing he said is he was walking out of the next door. Like he basically turned us. It was like, man, you know, I hope these guys are ready for it. Like, you know, like, this is a big night. Turns out they weren't. So I've obviously been watching the last three since. And they're averaging like 125 a game in the last three games, which is what they were doing to everybody. Right. They're wins. They have this most. The strangest list of like strong resume wins over the last month, right? Smoked Oklahoma City. Kill Oklahoma City. Beat the Lakers. Like pretty easily. And all of a sudden, like you're looking at this team. Like, man, this team is like, you better be ready to guard them. Yeah. And so look, I'm with you. I'm with you. And they've, they, I'm getting credit. They had that game. And they turned right around and played three great games and put up. No, that, that told me more about them than the one bad game that we called. There's an eye test thing with them. The guys make sense together when you're watching it. I mean, a Knapple makes sense with anybody. I just think he would fit in with any lineup. But I also like Miller. I think Bridges has been good this year. Lamello is the one I could never get there with. I talked I'd con on the podcast a couple of weeks ago. And I was just saying, like, this is the most fun I've had watching them. There's an arrogance and a good way about him sometimes, especially at the end of games. I used to say this long time ago about Carmelo where he wasn't the best player in the league or one of the best players. But when he played LeBron and Wade, he thought he was on their level. Yeah. And sometimes you need that Paul Pierce was like that for Boston. He was like, so yeah, he thought he was as good as those guys. And that's all that matters. I think when Lamello goes against his teams, like he's finally, my peers finally, my peer shade, Gilges, Alexander. Meanwhile, Lamello is like, you know, never been even in round one of the playoffs. But he thinks that. And I think there's an energy and a confidence with them offensively. Yeah. Yeah. Thing is, even that night, by the way, if I'm giving full disclosure, that was the best individual big man defensive game I've seen all year that Mowgli played in that game. Right. And so and they still ended up getting within six in the fourth quarter. Yeah. Thought they were going to come back. Yeah. Despite how poorly they played, give them some credit. They were in the game. Just one of the lowest growing games you're going to see all year. And Mowgli was unbelievable in the game, contributed to their offensive woes. But like I said, I care more about what they've done since then, then just one night where they didn't play well. So would you do anything if you were them? We got to trade that line coming up and they have a slew of picks and some good ones. Like they have gold states picked this year, I think they have a top two from Dallas, top two protected in 27 from Dallas. They have things to trade. I mean, the smart one would be like, let's just have a good time and joy this maybe we'll make the plan. But then I look around the east and you think like, well, maybe they could just kind of move around the edges there and grab somebody like on a cheap price, some veteran shooter, like some sort of like stretch for that can guard some people. Yeah, they need. They do. And there's yeah, they do. And even as well as they've played as fun as they are, they're still like obviously because they've got 11 players, 23 and under. Right. Okay, there's a maturity thing with them sometimes. So you go, okay, well, that'll just come with time. Maybe, but maybe we can expedite that by bringing in the right piece. A guy that's got a little bit more seasoning on him that's maybe in his upper 20s. Yeah, that can bring that to this group. So I would be looking to fire them. Yeah, I would. I'm glad we agree. Next group is the enigma. This is one team. The Philadelphia 76ers who were 24 and 21. And on Thursday night, they beat Houston and overtime. And it was the most impressive Eastern team performance. I saw all season. The embied was great. I thought Houston played well. And the size and speed of Philadelphia was alarming. And on my thread with Soundhouse and Hedge where we always talk about NBA futures, I was like, do we have to start thinking about sixers east futures? Because they were still pretty good price. And then all of them like, come on, embied's going to get hurt. And that's where we landed where it's like, we can't trust this because we don't trust them. Beed meanwhile, embied in his last 14 is 29 and eight. Yeah. But then you watch them on the nicks on Saturday. Do you do that game or do you do the other game? We didn't do that. You didn't do it. Okay. So embied in that game. And you saw the weakness they have as those entered like the nicks are like a pain in the ass. They rebound. They crash the boards. And that's I think what could sink the sixers in a series. I don't really understand the embied thing right now because when you watch them, it only seems like one of his legs work. And he only occasionally has explosiveness, but he's getting all the shots that he wants. And he seems rather, he'll fall down once a game. And you think the season's over and then he gets up. I don't really understand it, but it's way better than I thought where we were in October when we were thinking this was like Andrew Bynum. Right. So at least that's a win. What do you see from Philly? Do you how high is your ceiling for them in the building? You cannot dismiss their chances to make a legitimate and run at the Eastern Conference. You can't tell I feel I hate it, but I feel that way. And I called like the week before that, I called back to back games Philly Cleveland. It was weird. I was there for Wednesday, Friday was the same matchup. And it's funny. We're talking about his jumping, his lack of explosiveness. And I've been kind of talking about that. But to see it in person, he had an offensive rebound in that game. He got it. He was right under the rim. He got it and like, you know, go back a few years, healthy and beat MVP of beat. He's probably going to gather like swing his shoulders a little bit. Go off and just just dunk on whoever's in front of him. Right. He bent his knees and he went to jump. And I called it a toddler jump, you know, because like I have a four year old. And when he was learning how to jump and he was like, too, you know, he bent his knees and he got it jump, but he wouldn't leave the ground at all. It's just like nailed to the floor. It was the weirdest thing. He literally tried to jump and he only got as high as his tiptoes. And it globally blocked it. And they went the other way. And I was like, man, man, and even on the defensive end, like those incredible plays where he covers blocks of blocks to get a shot at the rim or trail a guard all the way to the rim that turned the corner on him and it smacked it off the glass. Like those are rare to none existent now. And yet he's putting up the numbers you're talking about because his shooting touch defies everything I know about like, you know, biomechanics. There's no way to do that big should have that kind of a shooting touch. He's that talented of a shot maker. He's always going to put up numbers if he gets touches in plays minutes. So he's giving them that now that other part. I can't stop you on that for one second. Yeah. I'm trying to think of somebody who somebody else who came into the league as one thing. And 10 years later is a completely different thing. Right. He comes into the league and he's just like, oh my god. This is one of the great big man athletes we've ever seen. This is like, this looks like young shack almost like holy shit. Where's this going? And then 12 years later, he's on one leg and makes every shot he takes. It seems like and all of them don't even hit the rim. And it's like, how did we, how did this guy emerge from what I remember from like the Kansas season? And all that. So it's just, I think a bizarre evolution. I don't remember anything like it. It's, no, it's incredible. Look, I'll put it this way. It's, it's nuts because you know, in one hand, you're always, we're always constantly scrutinizing his injuries and like, oh, that's not over the last few years. At the same time, I am marveling at his ability to put up those kind of numbers when he's got that level of physical limitation. And he's that far from what he was. Right. And still being out because some guys, Derrick Rose is a great example. I just was talking about Derrick because I'm like, Derrick Rose, think about all he lost athletically. He came back and he was actually pretty productive. He had some decent years as a totally different shooter, but he wasn't putting up those numbers. Right. Like, and B is putting up close to the same scoring numbers. He did. He was an MVP. And he's playing under like, playing like 27 minutes a game. And he's doing that because he's that good. When you pair it out with the back court, Paul, George, they've got other pieces like they just got Ubrei back. They've got, you know, McCain, I don't know what's going to happen for him this year, but that's maybe for next year, but like he's the trapeze. They became friends. Combo. They wanted to try something so hard. Defensively. I was so impressed with him when I was in Philly. You cannot dismiss this team's chances to make a real run at the whole conference. Yeah, I'm going to be meddling until then. They're going to be up and down. It's funny because you look up. I'm like, looking at your schedule. So they were 24 and 21. And I'm sorry, they were 16 and 11. You're like, okay, that's pretty good. They're only going to eat 10 cents. It's like, but they're capable of any given night of looking like, oh my God, how can we forget about this team? So that's kind of where they're at. I texted my buddy house, size and speed. That's what they have, which I don't think anyone else in the East has that combo. And I don't know if it's sustainable and beat Mike at her tomorrow. You mentioned the limitations. I remember Duncan in probably around 2011, 12 range. One of his legs just stopped working basically. And you could see it when you went to the game. So he was basically on one leg, but he was so good and his footwork was so good and he was so smart. It just didn't really matter. And he just picked the spots, but one of his legs didn't work. And when I watch him beat it, say, I'm like, one of his legs doesn't work. I don't, he can't push off it. I don't understand how he's getting to his spots. I don't understand how teams aren't using this against him, but he's making it work. I'm taking them seriously, especially because of the maxi edge comb. I think at home in a playoff series that team is going to be a nightmare because that crowd loves those guys, you know, and there's an energy in the building. And if they get anything from the bead, who knows? All right, lingering. Lakers Toronto Phoenix, we've talked about all these teams. Just quickly on the Lakers. And I'm sorry for the Toronto Phoenix fans who are probably like, well, you skipped over our teams. We've talked about them in the past. I don't think, I don't see any scenario where the Lakers get out around one of the playoffs. And yet they're 28 and 17 and they have Luca, who's one of the best five guys in the league. And they have LeBron, who's looked pretty good lately. And they have a lineup that seems to make more sense than it did. And they might even be able to make a traitor too because they have some expirings. And I don't take them seriously at all because I don't think they could be able to get stops. But they have a way of just stealing six minutes stretches of these games where they just all of a sudden they were down eight and then they're up 10. You know, you kind of don't even know what happened. There's no team in the league like this. I still hate the Lakers. I'm just afraid of the minutes by least favorite team. So I'm rooting against them. And I'm probably not the best objective observer. What do you see when you watch this team? Well, I just see their defense is so bad at times. It's hard for me to wrap my head around like taking them really seriously like the potentially win the West, but you would think a team with Luca and LeBron and even a healthy Austria. So you think they should be in that mix just based on those names alone. It's hard for me to get to that point because of how their defense looks for stretches of games. How do you say that? The only two teams in the Western conference that I would say like definitively now and going forward like they're not beating these two teams in a seven game series or Oklahoma City in Denver. Now would I put money on them beating San Antonio or Houston or Minnesota? I probably wouldn't want to risk. I'm not a gambler anyway, but I probably wouldn't want to risk my money on that. But would I dismiss their chances of being able to do that with like Luca on your team and how good he can be in playoff series and what we've seen him do historically on nights when he's damn near one games by himself. I can't just and look it's because it's not like San Antonio's really young. They haven't gone through any of this. Houston, I like a lot, but they haven't had as good as years I thought they would, it is consistently dominant as I thought they could be. And then Minnesota, you say the same thing about especially to stretch them in right now. So like I'm just saying like you said there's no way you can envision a scenario where they get out of the first round. I wouldn't go that far depending on what that four five or six three matchup look like if they get into that. But I don't think they could they could be Denver or Oklahoma City if they played them right out of the gate. And I don't think that's going to happen. I guess conceitably they could end up with Denver in the first round. I guess that's possible. But more likely they get a team like Houston or to get a team like Minnesota. Yeah, the thing that scares me about them when they want to get like eight minutes of pretty good shots, they seem to be able to do that. And LeBron who I don't I don't think LeBron has a first step anymore in the same way in the half court. But coming off a rebound or coming off pace, he still can do the old LeBron go 60 feet and you can't stay in front of him and he's going to get a layup. And then he's obviously great in the half court even though I don't think he's the same player anymore. Smart they're relying on a lot which would make me nervous. And I think they're losing eight and once and for all. I just think that the confidence in him is fading to the point that you're going to lose him as an asset pretty soon. And they probably already have. So whether they can put him in a trade or whatever, I just think the ship has sailed for him with them. But but I mean, to get to get the athleticism they're getting from LeBron at this age. It's pretty good. I don't think they'll be able to get stops and I think they're going to lose in round one to whoever they play. But maybe I'll be wrong. I think my strongest argument for them potentially potentially being able to beat one of the teams I mentioned. That's why I wouldn't rule it out. Luca didn't know how to get Chicago. Like that was Luca to me at his absolute peak in Dallas where he was less, you know, and it's never going to be not exist less of the distracting stuff with the officials, less of the constant body language that sits to me is just like not, you know, doesn't demonstrate enough leadership. He wasn't doing it as much the other night. And there's some of the passes he threw in that game. By the way, chips in 46 points as well. But some of the passes he threw in that game in the way that the bulls had absolutely no chance to stop this guy in the half court, that reminded me a lot of him at his absolute best in Dallas. And that's why I'm saying this capable of doing stuff like that. And if that's one or two games in a seven game series, that's enough to potentially shift the series. Well, that's why, as I said, I don't see any scenario where they get out around one. I also wouldn't bet against them. I'm just like the Luca that game he had the other night. It's just like the ceilings off in Alderat. The ceiling and the floor is off. I don't know what to expect from them. If he just decides to do that for two months, what are we going to do? Quippers number 10, they're officially the sleeper, even though they are still under 500. We talked about them already. The only thing I wanted to mention was five weeks ago, we were terrified that O.K.C. was going to go 75 and seven and that the quippers were going to give them a top three pick. And now times have changed. So anyway, Zach did a good job of breaking them down with Mo and his podcast. But the five out thing that they can do now, I think, is the biggest thing I've noticed that they have looks now. I don't think they knew what the hell they were those first four weeks. And Kauai wasn't really back and fully Kauai. And they was just kind of the James Hard to ship was awful. Now they have different things they can do. They got some young guys off the bench now. And they're just, they have a little bit more of a defensive item. They figured out to use Collins. I think they're good. I'm taking them seriously. I would say you have to. I'm taking them more seriously than the acres. What's crazy is what's crazy is this is how buried they were. They've won 15 out of 18 and they're still six games away from getting out of the league. Like to catch the 60. So, you know, can you make up? Can they make up six additional games on a team like Minnesota or a team like the Lakers? Like can you make up six, seven games on those teams with 30 something to go? Probably not. So you're talking about most likely going to be like, you know, a high seeded play in team of seven or something. Like that's the route they're going to have to take even if they continue to play out of their mind because that's just a lot of ground to make up on other teams that are pretty good teams. I don't know they can do that. So that's a horror show matchup for the one seed. You'd be like, oh, cool. We're the one seed. We get to play. Now we don't know if Kauai is going to be healthy in two months, but in us. Next group is lurking. And this is just Cleveland in New York. Cleveland's 20 in 20. New York is 27 18. Cleveland last 15 games 11 and four. You saw him in person. You saw an awesome mobile game. In general, I never really gave up on this team because it wasn't like they could make a trade. They were so hampered by the apron. It wasn't like, it's kind of like, this is your team. So you have 82 games to figure this out. You have a lot of talent. Are you going to figure it out? They look better than it did. I want to mention they have a five game West trip coming. And I think this is, we'll know when they go on this trip. If they're going to start to look like the 16 game win streak team from last year, the wet going on the West Coast and being on the road and being together, like this is usually when it comes together. So I'm monitoring that trip. It's it's they absolutely are starting to come together. Yeah. I've been scratching my head all year about this team that last year was unstoppable. Most nights offensively and also really good defensively. A lot of nights, but their offense was literally they'd hit you with an onslaught of offense. You couldn't recover from last year. And it wasn't a lot of that this year. You know, Garland's been hurt and took it some time to come back. And the Adry Hunter just hasn't shot the ball well all year. So, and you know, Merrill now out they haven't had streus. There's like a lot of reasons a lot of different lineups. All these teams deal with it. They've had a lot of their starting to convince me more here to like, okay, like they're getting it together. Not fully like, okay, there you go. Now we're good to go the rest of the year, but definitely a better product than you were seeing over the first couple months. A monitoring them. The next this goes back to our regular season versus playoffs discussion. There's six and nine in their last 15 catch them on the wrong night. They look awful. I still think when we get to the playoffs, there'll be a different story that towns the towns pieces worth monitoring because I it's weird that his offense went backwards and he seems to be a little bit of a lightning route these days, but we've already talked about the next in this part. All right. Second on last group is the contenders. I still have Houston as a legitimate contender. So I have seven teams left. Houston Boston, San Antonio, Minnesota, Detroit, Denver and O.K.C. Are you good with that as a final seven here or is there a team that would you put Cleveland or New York in that final seven? Give me that give me that seven again. Houston, Boston, San Antonio, Minnesota, Detroit, Denver and O.K.C. Would you have jumped Cleveland or New York over any of those teams? Man, it's tough right now because it sounds like you're down on Houston a little bit. Well, I was. I actually punished them severely when they lost it at Kings. I punished them. I banished them to 10th on my like my like rankings in the West alone. I was. And I didn't obviously fully buy into that, but I was like, this was at a time when the Kings were losing by 30 to everybody. Yeah. And then they get them and losing that game. I was like, are you kid and everybody played? Everybody played. It wasn't like they sat guys. Everyone was there. They were trying to win the game and they got beat by the Kings. I punished them. I was just a temporary thing. Obviously they're at a solitary confinement. They're at a solitary. They're back. They're back out. Yes, they're back out in the yard. They're back out. You know, I'm letting them out. But obviously they've got the talent and they've got to tell them both ends of the Florida. Yes, they have to be still considered in the mix. You know, some of the some of the Minnesota is just kind of like, man, like, you know, you're asking me at a time when they're playing a waiter playing now, like, I'm kind of going, yeah, I mean, I guess you'd have to put almost New York and Cleveland kind of in that goal. Yeah, might be a nine person contender group. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not ready. I think of the two between the nicks and the calves, I'd probably be more likely to go with the nicks. But it's six one half dozen. Yeah, honestly. So he used the number seven. They still have a, they're still plus 6.2 per 100, which is fourth in the league. There's still 12 games under five over 500. The thing that's weird with this team. So you would think KD and Shengoon and Jabari and Reed Shepherd and Um and Thompson. You think that's, that's my five. If I'm going to do anything in the playoffs, KD, Shengoon, Jabari, Reed, Um and Thompson, those are going to be my five. That's his most flexibility. I can put Reed in the corner. He can run fast breaks. I have scoring, I have size. I can kind of hide Reed on their worst part in the other team. Thompson can guard everybody. That's minus 2.2. This season, those five guys together. And it kind of matches watching their games and wondering why when, when those guys play together, why it's not better. And I don't know what it, what, what is missing with those five. So what do you think? KD, Shengoon, Jabari, Reed, Um and Thompson. Why isn't that a kick-ass five? What are my missing? Yeah. Well, I think that it's, oh, it's more of a, even more so than I think than that five. Two things I think that they have shown me that like, is why I'm not fully bought in. I do think their offense can be stagnant and stale sometimes. No question. It's not, they're not making teams guard them. They're making it easy to be guarded. And I think there's more there that they could do with, with just motions and movements and cuts and like weak side action take-e-place, multiple actions at the same time of different sides of the floor. They're very predicated on get the ball in the hands of KD or Shengoon and they're just going to play out of that and see what happens. And I think they make themselves easier to guard than they have to. The other thing, and I said this last week, I think there's the most, one of the most untapped weapons in this lead is Amin Thompson in the post. I don't know why they haven't really examined it. He never goes down there. I would throw in him on the post, but then also when they spread out their team and he just tries to beat people one on one, I always feel like he's getting a layup. I'm with you like he's, he's some sort of force and I don't know what, maybe they don't know how to harness it. But even in, and I agree with you, the one on one stuff, but even then you can kind of, at least you can kind of back up dare him to take a pull 15 foot over the hand in his face. Yeah, when he posts up the rare times that he does, but I'm thinking of potentially viewing this, he's so quick off his feet. He's slippery, incredible athlete down there. And he's a good passer. So if you put him in a one on one situation, do you want to leave Reed Shepherd? Do you want to leave Kevin Durant? Right. But do you want to rotate off those guys to even Shen Goon? Like do you want to leave those guys to go double Amin Thompson post? That's a tough call. And I just think he could you bar in the corner. He could just learn how to go two, three dribbles with a guy on his back. And like the different spins he could get into because he's so lightning quick off his feet. It would put a lot of pressure with defense start to figure out. I'm not, you know, run your offense that way. But why you can't do that five, six possessions a game for four possessions a game, one a quarter, even they don't ever do it. And I think that would be something I would look at the team and go, wow, that's, that's a nice other option to go to for a stretch of the game of Durant's getting a blow. Let's see how teams guard that. That's a tough matchup for guys that that spot have to guard and they're smaller and they're not nearly as quick as him. And so I just think it's something that's really smart. Yeah, they that doesn't feel like they've fully understood how to use him. But with that, it's what's funny is nobody posts up anymore. Right. So that's very true. But I always feel like it's seven or four wings. True. Like wings and point guards do, but big guys don't. True. Like Peyton Pitcher's post to go. I'm always for anything that makes the defense panic. And I think if you spread things around with him, that would actually work. But I haven't given up on Houston. I think we'll be hearing from them. Adam seems like he's going to be out for a while. Adam's is one of those guys that seems like he gets hurt every year though. So I'm not, I'm not sure. I'm sure that's why they got a couple of such a difference maker. Yeah. Number six Boston. We're going to talk about them. Number five San Antonio. I feel like we've talked about them a bunch. Number four Minnesota 2018 18 seven there are last 15 also some terrible stuff going on in the city, which I'm sure isn't you know, when you're trying to play basketball and stay focused on stuff, having your city falling apart around you. Probably isn't awesome. I'm not giving up on this team either. I do worry about them in the playoffs when they're up five with a minute left and these other these teams that they're playing are just like, let's go get the ball. I don't have a point card. And they're just and they just get attacked and it's like watching a football team under attack in the like a two-minute drill. And all the sudden it seems like they can't dribble the ball over half court. And I don't know how they fix that. How did they fix it? That's that's that's personnel dictates they really can't unless they make a change in personnel they can't. And it's that's one of the reasons that I like they're off to their they're they're they're so difficult to come to a full evaluation of because they can be so good defensively some nights and obviously Anthony Edwards can can just be too good for some defense of some nights. But that's just so much to put on his plate. Right. All the time every night like he not own because he's such an explosive talent. It's cooler. And he's gotten better at reading defenses and getting the ball out of traffic and all of that. But that's just so much to put on a guy is plate that should just be raw go attack like all the time without having to think that way. But I think he has to because they don't have the personnel to really do that around him. And I think it is a hole with their team that hasn't really been filled. I think you and I both value the point guard position. You know what's nice sometimes a point guard a guy who can dribble who's looking around and be like, hey, he hasn't had a shot in a while. Hey, we have a fast break rebound. I'll run the fast break and get somebody a layup. It's nice to have one everyone so that's why you're being pushed by a picked up game and I just take a walk and I see a guy running the show that way. Yeah. And it gives you a little hop. It's five year old, you know, weekend warrior guide. But he knows how to run a team. Yeah. There you go. Just give him a shout out through the window. Well, that's why when I watch Reed Shepherd, I'm like, I feel like it's in there with him. I could see him like running a team like we talked in the past podcast. You remind me of a more athletic price. Yeah, there's some mark price stuff. More athletic mark price. That's kind of what he reminds me of. I want to see the wedding that the year he's had the year that he's had because it was it was a lot of scrutiny on him. And you know, you were sure like, oh man, which way is this going to go? He has really stepped up and he's on the court that you already mentioned. He's on the court. A lot of their important ones in games. He reminds me of my guy, Drake Manlough, but like silent assassin doesn't really talk that much sneaky competitive. Just ready to fight. I just want to be a great man in the podcast. Number three, Minnesota, we'll see. I don't know how they can make a trade with how Handy kept there by the roster, but I think that point guards just that even though I have them fourth, I because I'm almost projecting some sort of move. If this is the roster in May, they're dropping out of the top seven. Detroit number three, we talked about them a little bit already. My only thing with him, one shooter short, 27th and three point attempts, 17th and three point percentage. And I feel like so much is on K at the end of these games. I the Lever thing, which I didn't like when they did it. And it doesn't seem like it's worked. And he's 40 million this year and 40 million next year. They have all their picks. Feels like that's the move. Something with the Lever and a pick. I'm just trying to get somebody who's more reliable. They could go nuts and try to do Troy Murphy. I don't know if if I'm New Orleans, I'm not trading for all of Detroit's picks, because they're going to be good for the next five years. But there's a move, right? There's something could it be Clay Thompson for Lever. I don't know. There's some sort of veteran shooter that I want to trust in the last five minutes of a game that will give them space. I don't know that. I think that's the only thing I see. One thing that is their three point shooting. That's that's a legitimate thing. Like they're, you know, the thing that there's going to be nights in playoff series when they make eight threes. And the other team makes 15. Yeah. Right? That's that's tough to overcome that with how good your mid ranges and you get to the line you can score in the paint. At some nights, it's going to require you to make 12, 15, maybe 18 threes in a game. And they that's the one thing about the team. But when I start to think about that, what I counter that with is their ability to show up with this absolute focused business like approach. And the fact that they've lost, I think two games in a row, three times a year, never more than that. They always come back with when you think that they're like, okay, look at Detroit. Then they went off five in a row again. They've been doing it all year. I just love how serious they are. They're tough. They're going to they're going to come at you. They want to fight in an alley when the game starts that they're ready for that. And they've got a star that you can't speed up. He plays how he wants to play under the most pressurized moments. But the shooting is a thing. And it's it's we'll see if that ends up costing them at some point down the road. Friday night, I watched a bunch of basketball, including Denver. I'm sorry, Detroit versus Houston. Those are probably the top two seeds and the these guys might fight tournament when you're and they were together. And it was like, there's actually might be a fight in this game. And there was a couple times it was brewing. And even in the fourth quarter, there was a couple like guys had to get separated. But Detroit's ready to roll. That's why I want them to get a shooter. But I would also love to see them get one more one more chest out guy. Because I think that's a real asset for them. They're a real hard team for the Celtics because they're so physical and they're so tough and the Celtics, you know, it's a younger team. I they don't have a ton of size and you put somebody like Stewart out there and he's, you know, moving bodies is intimidating and Durant too. I think I just went he's my most improved guy this year. I'm voting for him. I'm just telling you now. That's a great call. He has to be an all star. And I love the point to make it about the toughest because you don't rarely see teams this young that are this tough. Typically, you those are teams that got like a bunch of veterans sprinkled in there. It's a group of young guys that all have the same look on their face. And I just I don't know. I'm just so impressed. And they give give JB all the credit in the world. And he did a great job in Cleveland too. And he's just, you know, I'm glad that he ended up in a place where he could go win right away. You know, some of those guys they win, then they get fired and then they got to go to their next jobs a 20 win team. And you don't know if it's ever going to turn out for him to go to a place that was a bad team, but have a good one to turn it around. We're both he and Kenny at consent it up in good places is I'm two of my favorite guys. So I'm happy to both of you know, it's funny about that team because this happened in the Houston game. Jabari Smith almost got into it. And the pistons have a couple guys on their team that are we have to get this guy out of the situation guys where you can see the other team. The other teammates are like, oh shit. We had to get run home and add here now. Something's going to happen. And they have like as they have stewards like that. They have like three of those guys. There was like, oh shit. They've like hired extra coaches on staff. And that's all really bodyguards in the bar. They got from some nightclub. And they know how to get out there quickly and separate people. Just you got to do it. All right. The favorites. I think the trade. If that's my gun to the head team in the east, I would pick them because I think they have a trade to make right now. If I who's going to win the east, I'm projecting whatever trade it is. But I really like that team. They're going to have home court. And I just think that I think it's all lined up for them. They have a top seven guy. Now if they don't add another piece, I get more word because I think there's a sameness how they play that I think you get used to in a series. I'm just assuming they're going to get this. Also this massive, massive X factor hanging over the eastern conference which makes it take them possibly being injected into like a playoff run by the Celtics. I don't even want to talk about that. Okay. So like there's that hanging out there. So like as good as it looks for Detroit. Now we know things. Congratulations. If he doesn't say he didn't even play and Boston somehow makes it to the conference finals. I mean, that's one of the great coaching jobs and like stories like we've seen in a long, long time in this league. But if he comes back and he's coming back. The question is how good is he going to be? We will see him again. Yeah, he's got to play. I agree. I'm going to write down every week who I think is going to come out of the east and I bet it changes every week. This week I'm picking Detroit next week will be another pick. All right. The favorites. We'll go through these quickly. Denver number two. I used to have OKC as the sole favorite. I have now moved Denver into that group together partly because this no Joker run was so important for their young guys. I mean Watson in January is averaging 23 and six a game. 50% 49 from three. Like this is whatever happens when Joker comes back. The fact that they know that they have what they got from Watson and pick it even a little Najee. I just think you can't put a price on that. Like this is the most important thing that could happen. Them surviving without the best guy in the league is crazy. I never ever in a million years would have predicted it. The other thing would be Gordon's Hamies. We'll see what happens with them. You know, real quick when Watson like the you know, because this has been a big conversation. Obviously for like a month. Yeah. I will play. But you know, I'm being realistic about all of it. Say okay. Get everybody back out there. Aaron Gordon, Christian Brown, Yo Kitch. He doesn't go back to what he was. Okay. So he's more than that now. But at the same time, there's only so many opportunities in a given night when you add all those guys to the mix. Right. So his numbers are going to obviously take a big hit. But here's what they did find. They found this because this they're going to need this. There's going to be nights in big games where now maybe you know, sometimes hurt or foul trouble or he just gets it going when he's now capable of a 20 point playoff game. Right. And this was a guy that was like, I he almost became robotic to me in like his decision making was all about, I'm just going to guard because I don't, I don't offense. I don't mean, I don't need to factor offensively for this team. I didn't know what he was offense. I'm like mean, he's going from that to a guy now that I think is going to be a turning point in games for the nuggets. I agree. In the playoffs. It's crazy. Well, you know, it's funny. They also have Tim Hardaway who I think once around will probably have a good half world like Tim Hardaway said four threes. That's the first half. Yeah. They have wild cars that last year. You think like Dehendry Jordan was playing in playoff games for them. And they had their fingers crossed every minute joke or what I personally, they would be my gun to the head pick right now. And I don't think that's going to change over the course of the next couple of weeks because I just, I just think they're, I can't imagine Yoke age is only going to win one title. I keep coming back to that. So they have this the best supporting cast he's ever had. This is the best buries ever looked. It's came Johnson going to be healthy ever. I don't know. That's the next factor too. Like it would be nice if he could just play basketball. But for the most part, when they, if they can get everybody back in April, this team's a monster. And then okay, see is the other one. The 37 and 10 now, they're 12 and they're last 20 and J. Dub and Heart and St. Avoli played half the season. I don't really know how worried you should be here. I guess the only things that would worry me are the three point shooting, which is bad. And the fact that they don't get offensive rebounds at all. So when the three point shooting goes away and the leagues better. And it feels like you can get them late now. Like they're losing like a couple of two point two point games that I just don't feel like they were losing the same way last year. What else are you seeing? Yeah, they've had three of those type of losses in the last three weeks. And that wasn't the case like a year ago. Here's what's happened with Oklahoma City. And it's the best thing that could have happened really to the league. You know, is they went from an inevitability of repeating. Yeah, which is what it looked like to me. Yes. I was just like, we're going to, we're going to go ahead and play this out. But what's the point? I mean, you know, and I know they got taken the seven games twice last year. But the fact that they had this strange offseason because they were champions, a bunch of young guys that come in and reg it's paid like, and that didn't that there wasn't even a blip on the radar for them. They roll out to 24 and one to start the year. I'm like, forget it, man. Like how are you supposed to deal with this team? And again, defensive numbers off the charts. Here's what this happened in the last three. What what that four weeks. Yeah, five four five weeks. Yeah, month really. Yeah. Is they look like they can be had, right? They can be had. If certain things happen now, you said, Gunn to head Denver, Gunn to head for me right now would probably be okay. See, I'm not ready to just act like, you know, with them at their best isn't still something I'd look at as the standard. But they've now opened the door to the conversation. That's what they've done. Even the struggles they had with San Antonio, like three times in 10 days, that's not a fluke that there's something there. Denver at full strength, you're going my goodness. Like that with Yokech getting another shot at that team again with a better supporting cast around them. Like, yeah, you might want to bet on Yokech, but here's the thing. We haven't seen Denver like that yet because everybody's been out. So we're going to see this and we're going to revisit this a couple of times. I'm sure at least several times before we're done the season going into the playoffs. It could change, but right now I'm still kind of hanging with them. But the fact that we're even having the conversation that there's doubt is made to everything more interesting in the NBA. Well, can I give you a of scenario here? Yeah. It would it would have it requires San Antonio's 31 and 15 Houston's 28 and 16. So it would require Houston somehow jumping San Antonio and it would require Denver doing a little better. There is an O.K.C. San Antonio one slash four scenario and round two. Oh, yeah. And then there's a Denver Houston three two round. Like basically, there's a way for this to happen where San Antonio, O.K.C. would be the round two matchup. I think that would suck for O.K.C. Not saying they would lose, but that would have to be their worst case scenario. Then they have to play San Antonio and then Denver the next round. So I would just watch those top four spots. The Lakers are kind of lurking, but I don't I just think it's going to be those four in some order after O.K.C. And where they end up, can Denver get to the two seed when Yokeh comes back? So they could at least have home court and the first two rounds. Denver will be the good jockey. Yeah, it's two feet when it's all said and done, which is actually amazing that we're not even talking about beyond that because as much as we've actually like Oklahoma city is so vulnerable, they're five and a half games up. Right. Right. So you know, I mean, and that could end up being eight, but it's all said and done who knows, but I think Denver will get the two seed and prolong seeing Oklahoma City as long as they can. What's your super ball pick? I'm going with Seattle. I'm going with Seattle because you work for ESPN and that's just what everybody did. It's clad. They poured the Kool-Aid down your throat. It's as simple as this. I'm an NFC guy. I'm an NFC guy. Okay. That's been my conference, my entire life. I'm an NFC guy. Look, this is being incredible. It's been doing repulsing this off. It's almost it's not even fair to you people that root for these teams up in the pool. Hey, yes, it's great. We're so back. You just had Tom Brady for 20 years and you went, you know, you're back in the Super Bowl. We made it. 22 year old. What did I come home, man? Listen, we suffered for five full years. It's terrible. We're just completely irrelevant. I still though, I'm going to wonder for a long time what the L. Sean Payton was doing, not going kicking that field, but that's another for another day. I was on multiple Pats fan text threads praying for them to go for it. Yeah, that's the situation. You want to go to another thing? Please go for it because you're just looking at the conditions and the way this game is going. You're like, that's 10 point lead. It's like looks insurmountable. Plus even if they got it, it didn't guarantee that we're going to score a touchdown. They just sort of been first to go on the night. The risk reward, the risk reward was not there. There's no basketball version of this where people have just decided you should just go for a blind lay out all these four downs because I always feel like you got to bring in the situation. That Denver New England thing and Seth Wicker-Shamro, a great piece about it. The perfect example of like throw away the analytics and think about the actual situation and what's going on and the fact that the Patriots offense couldn't do anything and you could go up 10 nothing at home with a Blizzard coming. Take the points. Forget about the analytics. Forget about, oh, we could go up 14 nothing. Cool. You could also just go up 10 nothing and make us try to get two scores on you and you didn't do it and you get a place. I'll say this. What's going on currently changes your thinking. I'll give you an example two years ago. I'm a commander fan. We go to the NFC championship game that year. We went forward on every fourth down all season. It got to be one of them because Jayden Daniels. 20 for 23. It's possible to stop. Now going into that year, I wasn't that aggressive with it. Now, by mid season that year, every single time, why do we even have a punter? Just cut the punter. We don't need a punter. We're going to go for it every fourth down all season. That's where I got to. So it is amazing how you can change your thinking based on current success. Right. With something tasting anything. Last thing I had for you, I talked about the Sun and NBA Mailbag. A rule in the last minute of the game. If the team's up for and there's a foul, the team that's up only only takes one free throw if they make it accounts for two points and we keep the game going. Oh, we can say last 30 seconds, whatever, whatever it is, last 30, you're up. You found me. I'm up for because you want to stop the clock. One free throw. I get two. If I miss it, I still get to take the other free throw. But if I make it, I get two points for the one free throw. The penalized to penalize the team for trying to foul and get back in the game. Yeah. Yeah. Why? Because I don't like the fouling. The fouling is out of control. We're seeing teams now proactively fouling to try to game it with like 37 seconds left. I do like it. It's starting. It's starting to. Yeah, it starts to even even the whole thing up three, protecting a three point lead and out early. Some of these teams are found. I think it's a massive mistake, by the way, strategically to me, if you're up there to actually teams do a 15, 16 seconds left in the game. Right. I hate it. You have any idea how much you how much longer you're extending the game because you're also going to put pressure on yourself to make free throws. Right. And there's good. You're going to miss one. Eventually, I just think of silly. You get down at seven, six second range. Yeah. I see it. I get the point then with some of these teams are doing a 15, 20 seconds left in the game. Up three. They're already taking fouls. I don't get it. All right. Tim Legler, Cleveland and who tomorrow? Lakers, man. Oh, there you go. We got a good one. Yeah. We got it. We got a good one. Both. That's a good one playing pretty well. Yeah. So I'm looking forward to it, man. Great to see you. A pleasure as always. I'll see you in February. You got to build. Thanks. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Legs. Thanks to Eduardo and Gahal as well. Don't forget new rewatchables went up. Zodiac, which you can also watch on Netflix. And you can get that podcast wherever you want, including on Netflix. While thanks coming next week on the rewatchables, I have one more podcast coming on Thursday. As we start to get ready, notice how I didn't talk about the Patriots really at all during this podcast. I was really proud of myself. I'm saving my thoughts. I'm listening. I'm listening. There's already been some disparaging comments made. Media circles. I'm hearing everything. We'll be talking about the Super Bowl over the next week and half. Anyway, I will see you in this feed on Thursday. I don't have must be 21 plus in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus in president DC Kentucky or Wyoming. 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