Nikola Tesla Fell In Love with a Pigeon

Hello and welcome to the rest is science. I'm Michael Stevens. I'm Hannah Frye. And this is an episode of Field Notes, which is where Michael and I empty our houses of any scientific linked crap that we've got lying around and bring it to you for your entertainment. You're welcome. I'm speaking out of turn here. These are all carefully curated objects that are genuine scientific interest. Very true. And today I'm bringing in an object that was given to me as a gift by Romesh Ranganathan. Oh, it's right here. The comedian, the brilliant comedian, he gives a gift to every guest who appears on his podcast. This is what he gave me. I would say it is somewhere between extremely boring and potentially lethal. So I love that. That's what we've got coming up. This episode is brought to you by Cancer Asserts UK. Here's something strange. Your DNA contains more ancient viral fragments than genes. The genes that build our cells make up only 2% of our DNA. And for years, that is what scientists focused on. They treated the rest, the ancient viruses and stuff as junk. But now we know that that hidden majority, sometimes called the dark genome, influences how our biology works and how diseases like cancer behave. It's a reminder that progress rarely comes as a single breakthrough. It builds gradually. Cancer Research UK plays a central role in that progress, supporting decades of research into over 200 types of cancer work that's helped double survival in the UK over the past 50 years. For more information about Cancer Research UK, their research breakthroughs and how you can support them, visit cancerresearchuk.org forward slash the rest is science. Do you know what this is? It's a Tesla coil. It is a Tesla coil. I've seen many, many short videos about these where they're being used, but I don't know what it's doing or how it works. Have you ever played with one? I've never played with one. I've seen giant ones at science museums and I just watch and I go, I better look that up someday to learn how it works, but I don't know. Maybe today is the day, Michael. Maybe today is the day. Okay. So what it's doing, it's basically a transformer. So it's a way to step up the voltage from a current. So normal transformers, I don't know, if you like buy something in America and then use it in the UK or vice versa, you need a transformer because it's 240 volts in the UK and 120. Yeah. What is it in the US? 220? It's less in the US. Less. Anyway, less. But what this is doing is it has two circuits that are tuned to the same resonant frequency. So what it does is it sort of sloshes the electricity backwards and forwards between them to just really amp up and the voltage goes up. Yeah. Right. But it doesn't add more. The current is the same. It's the voltage that is increased. I think the current goes down. Oh. Aren't they connected to each other? I don't know much about electricity, which is even more reason for us to play with this. Okay. I'll be honest. We're absolutely at the limits of my recollection from A-level physics. This is an important moment though to show that we're always learning. Yeah. Like I'm still at the level of current is like the amount. It's like the flow amount, but then the pressure behind it is the voltage. Like I have a bandograph generator and that produces extremely high voltages. Like in the millions and yet it can spark you and it's not pleasant, but it doesn't kill you because the current is small. It's high voltage, but only a few electrons. Yeah. You can have a lot of electrons and barely a difference between two places and you'll get very low voltage, but that current can be really dangerous. Yeah. Absolutely. That's the thing that you have to really worry about. The high voltage is the thing that looks really fancy, but it's the current that is the thing. Makes a big difference. Dangerous thing. There are two lightning labs actually that I've visited at various points for different TV programs. One of which is like this kind has a massive Tesla coil, unbelievably high voltage, looks incredible, lightning in the sky. It's amazing. And the other one, the high current lightning lab looks pathetic, extremely dangerous. Extremely dangerous. Extremely dangerous. Yeah. Okay. The way, the analogy actually that I liked when I was doing physics at school, my whole class came up with this like fun idea that actually electricity is just elves. They're like little elves who are running around inside the wires. Is that not true? I haven't seen it disproven. So, you know, and look, the whole point of science is it's falsifiable. So, this is something, maybe we should look into it guys. Maybe we should. But the idea is that the current is the number of elves that you have and the voltage is how much water they're bringing with them in their buckets. Okay. Cool. Yeah. That works for me too. Okay. So, the purposes of this episode. For the purpose of this episode. We'll do that. Okay. So, what this is doing is caring about the voltage and reducing the current as a result. Okay. So, for those of you listening, this box Hannah has brought, it's a Plexiglas box. It's clear. You can see all the electronics inside, which there isn't much. There's mainly empty space in there. There's a couple of transformers and the box is maybe, I don't know, two inches tall and then it's depth and length is like maybe four or five inches. But on top, there's a golden disc and a needle is sticking straight up like a steel needle that gets quite sharp at the tip. And that's about, I don't know, three inches tall. Then there's two knobs. One says frequency and one says power. And it's plugged in. All right. Should I turn it on? See what happens? Oh, I guess. Go ahead. Yeah. Okay. Let's go. Watch this. Watch this. My laptop's hiding out the way. Okay. It's probably a good idea. Whoa! Okay. Yes. Isn't that cool? That's really cool. It made room for us to have a... It was very frightening to me. Yeah. Okay. So we should describe what we've just witnessed. From the very tip of that needle, the sharpest point, there was an explosion of what looked like miniature lightning. Yeah. Lightning bolts in all directions, like a ball, you know, those... The plasma things. Yeah. Like a plasma ball. When you touch the plasma ball and there's like this lightning bolt that comes from the middle out to the edges, we saw those. There's almost like jellyfish like that. That describes the color wells, like a fluorescent blue. Yeah. Oh, I would say even pinky almost. Oh, there's some pink in there too, for sure. Yeah. So there's an... The voltage, what in that spike is getting so strong that the electrons are like, I gotta leave. Yeah. But they have nowhere to go except into air, which they don't like to go through unless they really have to. That's why it's so explosive. Yeah. And I'm hearing pops. Right. That popping noise is what? The air? Okay. So what's happening is we are literally ionizing the air. Yeah. All of those little arcs that you see coming out, it's... And the purple even, you are turning the air into plasma literally as it happens. I mean, that is pretty... So you're stripping the electrons off the nuclei. Ripping the electrons off the nuclei in the air. Wow. So what have you licked? I mean, you're welcome to. Am I? Do you really want that on your conscience? Because I'll do it. No, I won't do it. I think it's probably better not to. But yeah, you can... Because I think technically you can touch it, but maybe don't. I'm not going to. No. I mean, that was both frightening and... I didn't think it'd be so loud. I know. Yeah. The way that this is working though, is it's using resonance. So if you imagine a person on a swing, right, if you're pushing a child on a swing, if you manage to get them at the right frequency, they can go higher and higher and higher. So what this is, is effectively like two people pushing, right, back and forth, and back and forth, and back and forth, in order to really elevate the voltage. I mean, you're getting like hundreds of thousands, if not millions of volts right at that very tip, enough to strip the electrons from the air. Yeah. Because electricity doesn't like to move through air. It's got to have really high voltage to arc like that. So in this lightning lab that I went to in Germany, where they had a giant one of these, they put me in a Faraday cage. Ah, to protect you. To protect me, and then electrocuted me. But you were okay. I was okay. So they shot bright blue arcs of electricity at you, but the Faraday cage protected you. Yeah. How much do you know about Tesla, by the way? Because he's a wild guy. Not as much as I should. So tell me. Okay. So he has, he had these really quite bonkers ideas. One of the things that he really wanted to do was he wanted to sort of use this, these general ideas to broadcast electricity through the earth. Right. Oh, right. So rather than having to use a wire. Yeah. Right. You could just, everything would just work. So, and he managed to get funding for this as well. So in 1901, he was backed by J.P. Morgan, and he started to build something called the Wardenclyffe Tower on Long Island. And the pitch was that it was going to be wireless telegraphy. But what he actually wanted to do was to build a sort of planet-sized Tesla coil. And they would use the earth as this giant kind of resonant cavity. Yeah. And then anyone would be able to just stick an antenna in the ground and then pull electricity kind of for free. Out of the ground. Yeah. And then Morgan found out about this, J.P. Morgan found out about this. And he was like, actually, I'm making quite a lot of money from metered utilities at the moment. So I'm going to go with no. So he shut off the funding that the second. But wouldn't have worked? So no. Probably not. There's like all kinds of slight problems about how far this thing, kind of the level of power that you would need to put into it would have been so absurd. Yeah. Even if you did manage to get it to work, which you probably wouldn't have done, it would have had all of these repercussions. So like, you know, fences, for example, would start humming. Yeah. I was going to say anything stuck in the ground. Bath tubs. You know, you get a massive electric shock from your bath tubs. Probably your fillings and your teeth, they were like, started to rattle. This doesn't sound good. Birds also would have a terrible time. Birds would navigate using electromagnetic fields, essentially. Bees also, game over. Yeah. It would have been pretty bad. Also, probably, probably would have been strong enough to actually cook flesh in the immediate vicinity of the transmitter. Yeah. It's online. You know. It could be worse places. Tesla, though, he was really into resonance. Love this stuff. He claimed to have shaken a building off of its foundations using just a resonant device that was this kind of size. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, maybe not completely absurd. We do know the buildings can get taken down by resonance, right? There's the famous bridge, what's called the Tahome. Yeah, the Tacoma Bridge. Yeah. Then there's the Millennium Bridge as well, which had problems with resonant frequencies, which ended up being very wobbly. It didn't get... And that one's here. That one's here, exactly. And so there is something in it that if you find the resonant frequency of a particular structure, it can sort of shake itself apart. His story was that he had this oscillator, was kind of shaking this building, tuned it to the resonant frequency of the steel structure. And then nearby buildings started shaking too. And then plasters started falling and then windows started cracking and then police were called. And he was like, no, this is awful. And got a sledgehammer and smashed it to pieces. And then he later told the reporter that he could split the earth like an apple if he wanted to using resonance. Nice. I mean, look, he was a salesman. He was. That's definitely what we can say. He also, when you are in the room with one of these, if you have one of these, you can light up for fluorescent bulbs without physically touching them. Yeah. Because there is just enough charge that is in the air. In the air for a fluorescent bulb to light up. Exactly. So, you know, this idea of like wireless charging, it kind of does sort of work. If you don't mind your teeth rattling around in your head. I do though. I sort of do as well. The other things about Tesla, he's a kind of a sort of really strange guy. So he could, he could recite entire books from memory. Okay. What a skill. He's ready for Fahrenheit 451. He's ready for it. Burn all the books. We'll just have Tesla memorized. Just exactly. Why not? And, but he was also really terrified of pearls. He would refuse to speak to any woman who was wearing pearls. Didn't know that. You've got a pearl right there on your laptop. I do. Sorry, Tesla. Sorry, Tesla. But you know, yin and yang, they have to be together. Exactly. In fact, I put that there deliberately just to sicken him. I can tell. Just to sicken him. He also fell in love with the pigeon, but like for real, a white pigeon that he had in New York. And when the pigeon died in his arms in a hotel room, he wrote, I love that pigeon as a man loves a woman and she loved me. As long as I had her, there was a purpose to my life. It's very sweet. It's very sweet, isn't it? I need to learn a lot about electricity. The thing is, I've got to be honest with you, they are sort of a novelty item. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what else you're going to do with it. You can, you can stick flowers and stuff on the needle and watch them. They get damaged, possibly burned after a while from, from those arcs. I think what's worth saying is that this is a point in time when electricity is so exciting. First, you had Volta, who was the first person really to create a steady electric current. Then you have Faraday who comes along and manages to reliably create it and harness it in some ways. All of this stuff is going on. But this was really the point where it's like, actually, we can do stuff with this. You know, Edison is around. He's like looking at light bulbs and things. There's like, there's, there's telephone wires that are being strung up around the place. It's like this real age of excitement and thrill. And lots of people were, were just totally enamored with, with just the very power of electricity. That's a good point. I think we always have something like that in society. Today, maybe it's AI before and then until this day, it was nuclear weapons, things where someone could threaten to rip the world in half with it. And it was changing society dramatically. And with electricity, that's a huge jump to go from, I can't speak to my cousin who's halfway across the country unless I want to wait. Suddenly with wires, with telegraphy, the world became so small so quickly. It was a Copernican shift. And there was a time when this was part of that. I mean, this, this was sort of witchcraft to the, to the generations that existed before. That's right. It was unnatural. Yeah. And today we take it for granted. Yeah. God like powers lightning in your room. Light at night. Cool, cool light. Well, they were warm lights, but they didn't, they didn't, you know, didn't run out of oil. No, absolutely. I have actually heard people compare the invention of AI or the, I guess, the advances in AI to the discovery of electricity. Yeah, certainly. Yeah. I think it probably is, you know, the first time I heard it, I was like, come on. But actually, as time's gone on, I think, I think it probably is actually as seismic as that in the way that now it's really difficult to imagine basically anything without our use of electricity and how we've managed to harness it. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, I hope you enjoyed that. I really did. Yeah, it's cool, isn't it? We're going to be back after the break with some of your questions. This episode is brought to you by Cancer Research UK. In the UK, nearly one in two people will face cancer in their lifetime. The question is, could science stop cancer before it begins? In over the past 50 years, Cancer Research UK has helped double cancer survival in the UK. And that's proof of what research can achieve, like take cervical cancer. Almost every case is caused by HPV, the human papillomavirus. And when scientists uncovered that link, prevention became possible. Indeed, it did by a vaccine. And it's protection that works way before the cancer itself can actually grow. After the vaccine was introduced, cervical cancer rates in England were nearly 90% lower than expected in women in their 20s. I mean, we're now genuinely at a point where this is a disease that is disappearing in young women in the UK. This is something that I really hope my daughters will never have to deal with. For more information about Cancer Research UK, their research, breakthroughs, and how you can support them, visit cancerresearchuk.org forward slash rest is science. Are you one of those media strategy people clicking through slides, scrolling spreadsheets? Yes? Good. This is for you. Because on Spotify, there's an audience that's different, locked in, loyal, invested. They're called fans. Fans don't just listen to music. They feel seen by it, like it belongs to them. So when your brand shows up on Spotify, that's who you're talking to. And you're right next to artists like me, Lizzo. So are you ready to talk to fans? Spotify advertising, you're among fans. Okay, Michael, first question is for you. What is the oldest symbol that represented something when it was created and is still used today to represent the same thing? This is by Ethan, by the way, this question. I love this question. I've looked at things similar. Like what's the oldest song that we all basically still know today? And the answer there, I think a good one. We can't always be totally sure, but it's probably Green Sleeves. It's a very old song and people might not know the name of it, but they'll recognize it when they hear it. Is it this one? No, that's not what I'm saying. Wait, how does it go? Look at my green sleeves, aren't they cool? No, if you play it, I'll know it. I think you were right. No, I don't think I was. That's it. I remember hearing that was written by Henry VIII. It may have been, I don't even know. Seems unlikely. But the question is, what's the... Much more likely he took credit for it. What's the oldest symbol that we still recognize today? And this, first of all, it really comes down to what you think a symbol is. So the definition I'm going to use is that a symbol is something that represents something else through an arbitrary or conventional connection. So, for example, a handprint, I'm not considering a symbol because that's an index. It iconically looks like a hand and it's a sign that a hand had been there. A footprint, these things are not for me symbols. Alphabetic letters are symbols. A, the letter A, and then what it means, what it's referring to are really different. And it's through convention, it's through our social rules that we learn. A means ah, A, those sounds. Anyway, I think that gestures came before graphical representation. Animals have body postures and things and gestures, but those are also not really symbolic. They kind of biologically happen. Even this meaning yes and this meaning no, there are hypotheses that those actually come from infant behavior. That like to go like this is to reject a nipple. This is to like suck on a nipple. Give me the boob. Give me the boob. Again, this is just a guess. We can't really be sure. But it's not uniform, right? Because in India, this means yes. That's true. But they still have no. I mean, this doesn't mean yes. This means like I'm following. I think it sort of does though, you know, I think this is like more of the yes of like, yes, I hear you rather than the yes, I consent kind of. It can be all three apparently. Let us know in the comments, by the way, because we're clearly at the limit of our. Yeah, yeah, we are. But I can see the origins of things like no. Yes, I agree. Stop. And that is like you're actually stopping something's motion. If it's too tied to physical things, then I don't find it very symbolic. So I think my answer to the question is going to be the connection between a mark, like a notch and the concept of number. One notch means one sheep. Like that is symbolic, because that one notch doesn't have to mean oneness. And yet as soon as it did, notches could have meant days or how many sheep you you moved here. And you want to make sure that you get a notch for every sheep that comes back. But even before those notches, there were like tally counters, like like a like a little stone. Every time you you had a sheep walk by, you could put a stone in a bag. And then when you brought the sheep back in, you would take a stone out for each sheep, and you would know that they'd all come back because you were so seeding the pebble with one sheep. Like that is that that coin being a symbol for the sheep is a big leap. Right. That to me, basically number any kind of symbol, a notch, a dot, a pebble, a stroke, I don't know which came first, but those representing amount or representing an individual or any individual would probably be the first step in symbolic thinking. Yeah, I think that's probably right, actually. I was thinking about, I was thinking when the question came through, I was thinking about sort of physical marks on paper. I know, and they may want an answer more like that. I am talking about physical marks, like the dash for a one or just a slash for a one. Because if it is which letter slash symbol is the oldest, I mean, zero's got a good shout, isn't it? Well, why did the Romans neglect it so much? I mean, sure, but the Indians were way ahead. Yeah. So circles and squares and spirals, we find in the most ancient cave paintings. And we find a lot more of those kind of like doodles than we do the more famous and well-known depictions of bison and other animals. So what I was hung up on with geometric shapes is that although as a shape, it's been around forever as a thing that we doodle, but as a symbol for something specific, it's changed. And we don't really know what they were trying to represent with the spirals they drew. Right? So what about in language? Is there a language, what's like the oldest language or oldest letters that have continually been in use? Do we know? Because you could reasonably pick up some ancient Greek text and sure, the words might be different, ancient Greek to modern Greek. There's a really big distinction in the languages, but the letters have some commonality, right? Yeah, but I think we need to go further back than Greek letters. I'm thinking that you can go back a hundred thousand years to just literally like these notches represent one thing that I gave you and this helps me remember. I'm externalizing thought in a symbolic way. Though it is still a cool question like which doodle, which like graphical symbol has always meant what it means even to this day. The problem is there are a lot of old ones like the swastika is super old. And if you look this question up, the spiral or a swastika is like super, super ancient, but what it has symbolized has certainly changed a lot and meant different things to different people at different times. So I kind of didn't include that one. I was really like, I want this to be so the same still. Yeah, I like that. So I'm going with a notch. Absolutely, lol, if you're answered, been this swastika. I know when I saw that one. I was like, oh, I hope that's not the answer. Yeah, well, thankfully isn't because we've got little pebbles. Oh, can I just say that? Oh yeah, go ahead. Like there's a good argument to be made that an arrow is quite old because the arrow meaning direction would have come from the use of spears even before graphical language. So and arrows have always meant direction. Look here, they draw attention and that's very much what symbols do. They draw your attention to something else and the arrow is trying to do that even if it's drawing your attention to something else on the surface. So if you're looking for an actual shape you can draw, I think arrow. I think you're probably right. It's pretty good. Yeah, arrows got to be older than written language. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I like that a lot. I don't know if any of this is correct, but it's hard to know because we're talking about prehistoric things. Absolutely. Okay, here's another question from Sam who asks, in recent episodes, you briefly mentioned hypnosis, but I was wondering what causes hypnosis? Have you ever been hypnotized? No, I haven't. I don't think I'm, I resist too much. I resist too much as well. I did actually do an episode with the BBC where me and my co-host Adam Rutherford were hypnotized and it didn't work on me, but it absolutely did work on him. Yeah, and I believe it. I believe that it's a real thing. I mean, the evidence is really, really strong that it properly works. Yeah, it really does change your connection to like your own will. Yeah. And you do things, but you just don't know that you're doing them. It feels like you're being controlled. But actually, you're sort of complicit. You're sort of playing along, nonetheless. So the best understanding of it is that it's like a focused state of attention, essentially. It's like you kind of reduce your peripheral awareness, you kind of heighten responsiveness to suggestion. Yeah. It's like the opposite of multitasking, essentially. Oh, interesting. Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. But you see this, you know, you can hypnotize people and put them in brain scans and you can see that they have reduced activity in certain parts of their brain and then increased activity in other parts of their brain. There's sort of more communication between the brain's planner, is it where, the prefrontal cortex and the part that tracks what's going on inside of your body, which might be one of the reasons why it's so effective for pain control, which it is. Whatever it's doing is really fundamental to the concept, the experience of consciousness, because, you know, they found that you cannot hypnotize people to do things they wouldn't normally do. There's a wonderful study where they took actual acid and they demonstrated to people who were not hypnotized that this will hurt someone if this splashes on them. Then they hypnotized the people, did a magic switcheroo and gave them just water. And then they said, when I say snap my fingers, you will throw this acid all over this researcher and they wouldn't do it. Now, if they had done it, no one would have been hurt. Because it was water. Yeah, but significantly, even though the hypnotized person felt that they had no sense of will over their actions, some deeper part of them still did and was like, no. I don't want to do that. I remember you saying, I think probably off camera, off microphone once, that you thought that consciousness was essentially our own body's ability to have a veto on our behavior. I really like that idea. And you lose that veto power when you're hypnotized. Right. You cannot say no to your unconscious. Your unconscious or I think non-conscious is a better word to use, but it still can say no to stuff. It still will refuse to harm others, for example. But you don't feel like you vetoed that instruction. By the way, about 15% of people are highly hypnotizable. About the same on the other end, about 15% of people are unhypnotizable. And then everyone else in the middle is moderately responsible. Responsive. Responsive, suggestible. Suggestible. I mean, they do say that it works better on people who have better imaginations, that it's a compliment to get yourself in this state. I did try it for childbirth, actually. To lessen the pain? Yeah. So, hypnoburthing, it's called. It's called what? Hypnoburthing. Hypnoburthing. Yeah. So, you do it essentially to yourself. You practice it for ages and ages before. And I definitely think that it would help to calm yourself, right? It would sort of like help you to get yourself into a much better mental state of mind. Because the thing is, when it comes to pain especially, pain is not this objective fact. Much of pain is actually constructed within your own mind. Right. Right. There are really extensive experiments on this where you subject an individual to a sort of quantified amount of pain, right? Like a particular need or pressing a particular point in a particular strength over and over again and then change the environment that they find themselves in, change the mental state that they're in. And their experience of it changes. Completely changes. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that there was free analgesia as it were to tap into by, you know, harnessing the power of the mind. So, did it work? Yeah, kind of. It definitely, yes, I would do it again. Okay. I definitely wouldn't say, oh yeah, it's a completely pain free experience. No. It's like earthquake in my soul. But all the same, all the same, I would definitely do it again. Yeah. Especially when you're doing something that has no side effects, right? There is almost no medical interventions that have zero side effects whatsoever. Yeah. I've never met someone who was like, oh, I hypnotized myself too much and now I can't walk. Right? It doesn't have any effects. Altered states like that, I would need to learn so much more about because they are so important. Automatic writing is another one. And the thing is, I can't get myself to do a lot of this. Even under ayahuasca, I couldn't let go. But the Ouija board too is one of these people kind of get into a state where they disconnect their actions from their sense of will. Absolutely love that you just dropped in. Dropped in that you were on ayahuasca once during that conversation. Okay. Last question. This is from Caden. Is nothing a thing? Is nothing a thing? I'd love to hear what you think about this too. I think that the word causes a lot of confusion because you've got like two types of nothing. You've got nothing the pronoun, which refers to no thing. For example, in the sentence, nothing is better than God. I'm saying there is not a thing that is better than God. But then there's the reified nothing where you treat it like it's own noun. In the sentence like, well look, a ham sandwich is better than nothing. Now we know those two uses of nothing are different because if nothing is better than God, so nothing is better than God, and a ham sandwich is better than nothing, then a ham sandwich is better than God. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that there's no thing better than God, and a ham sandwich is better than the set, a set that's empty, which is a reified, a made into a thing thing. It's the difference of defining something as the absence of something. And the absence itself. Right. But that conceptual leap from no things to what if we called no things nothing. Then you can start building and having nothing, but also the container I've put it in, and then I can have a different container of nothing, and suddenly you're constructing numbers from nothing. I think that's the Van Neumann set theoretical way of constructing all of the cardinals. All of the numbers above. Hey, look, we did three parts on infinity. You think you're getting away with us talking about zeros, that it's one part of a question and one part of a field? No, it's absolutely not. We're coming back to that. I think though, in the short answer is I think that no thing is obviously a thing, because it's defined in relation to the absence of a thing. But nothing, as in sort of the absence of anything, the absence itself, I think it is only hypothetical. I think you can't ever actually have it. I agree. I agree. I agree. Yeah. In the same way as I think circles are only hypothetical. Yeah, we can imagine a circle. We can imagine nothing, but there will never be a circle. There's no perfect circle. No perfect circle, and there's no complete nothing. Yeah. Maybe no infinity, that maybe nothing is real. Maybe no thing is real. Maybe, I'm not sure. Maybe there's no zero and there's no infinity, and there's also no seven. That should be its own belief system. I'd like that one. It certainly should. Well, okay. Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of The Rest of Science. As ever, you can send us your questions, The Rest of Science, at goalhunger.com. And we'll see you next time. Certainly will.