Lucinda Williams

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human. Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and today I'm playing along with Lucinda Williams. Yes. I'm just playing along with you. I'm just playing along with you. Hi, I'm Nora Jones. And with me is Sarah Oda. Thanks for having me. You're always with me. Our guest today. Oh, boy, oh, boy. We have the incredible legendary singer, songwriter and guitar player, Lucinda Williams. Her first album came out in 1979 called Ramblin on My Mind and consisted of country and blues covers, but she followed that up shortly after with her own music on an album called Happy Woman Blues. And now 15 albums later, she's still singing her heart out and writing these beautiful stories put to music is how I like to think of it. Lucinda is one of my idols. She's many of our idols. Yes, I am personally a big, big fan. And I feel like her songs have sort of woven their way through different chapters of my life. Yeah. And when I hear a song, it just takes me right back to a moment in time. And like just her music has the power to do that. She's incredible. She's on tour off and on. So we got to catch her when she was in New York playing at the Beacon Theater. And she's super generous with us, with her time and her stories. And I really loved hanging with her. This is the first time I've really got to sit down and hang with her and play music, even though I've met her many, many times over the years. So this was a very special time to spend with her. The first time I met her was at a grandparson's tribute in 2002 or three, maybe, four, I'm not sure. But we have a great picture of the three of us with Keith Richards and he has no shirt on. Pretty great. But that was the first time I met her. And I just, ever since I've been just a huge mega fan, I've been to many of her shows and just stood in the back crying. I know. You know, because her music really evokes a lot of emotion. Yes, for sure. She's a very moving performer. We also want to mention that her new album, World's Gone Wrong, comes out on January 23rd, 2026. And you can check out her new single by the same title, which is out now. Joining us also in this episode on guitar is Travis Stevens. So you'll hear another voice chime in here and there. I hope you enjoy this episode. It was my dream to play and hang out with Lucinda Williams. I'm so excited. I'm excited because because you play piano. That's just such a great instrument. Well, I read your book, so I know your connection with your mother and the piano. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. It was interesting to hear you talk about that because you said she had a complicated relationship with the piano. So you always had pianos coming and going. Yes. I'm not sure what that was about, but just, I don't know. I guess she felt this pressure from somewhere in her mind from when she was younger, I guess, maybe, and that she didn't make something more of herself with it or something. You know, she never really talked about it openly. She would just kind of get in a certain mood about it. And, you know, yeah, I think I said in the book, it became kind of an albatross for her. Yeah. That's so nice that you read the book. I loved it. Thank you. Yeah. It was really, it was really special. You know, I didn't know that you had written a book and Alinda Sagara from Hurray for the Riff Raff told me about it and I was so excited. The book is amazing. Was it hard to, like, go that deep and write about your life like that? Yeah. Kind of. It takes a lot of time. Yeah. That's the thing I didn't realize it was going to take, be so time consuming. You know, now that I've done it, I guess I could do it again. Maybe, you know, they all talk about maybe a second book and I don't know. That's exciting. You know, it's interesting to think about telling your stories like that. Yeah. Like I've never really thought that way. But when I was, I listened to it on audiobook because I like to hear you talk. So I was thinking about that. I was like, wow. Yeah. It's such a different thing from writing songs and recording an album, you know, just kind of a different part of your brain, I guess. Yeah. It's cool though, because I like the way you talk about your songs in it. Yeah. Have you explained where the songs come from as much before you wrote the book? Like, did you ever explain where the songs come from in interviews when people ask? Or were you always like the shy away from that kind of person? No, I try to talk about it as much as I can. OK. Except for their super personal stuff, like who I was in bed with or something, you know, like. Now that's in the book. That's in the book, yeah. But like now the shows I'm doing, that's kind of what we're doing is I'm telling sort of taking stories from the book and talking a little bit about that, you know, and then playing a song. I tell a story about like somebody I knew in my life or something, and then I'll sing a song that's connected with it. Oh, wow. That's what the shows are right now. Great. So. That's great. And people seem to really like it. They love sharing the stories behind the songs. They really do, I think. You know, yeah, they love that. I've always been shy about that. But when I was listening to you explain them on the book, it was so nice. And I felt even more close to the song, even a song that like some of these songs I've been close to for many years already, because I love your music. Yeah. Like you talked about something what happened, something about what happens. Yeah. When we talk, I love that song so much. And I had a summer in LA once where I listened to that song every single night on repeat. Wow. For like a couple months. So hearing you talk about it was special. I can't believe I'm sitting here. It's you doing this. It's fun. You're so revered and everybody loves you. You know, ditto. I mean, you're like my idol. Are you kidding? I'm I'm so thrilled that you were open to it. Of course. Yeah. Let me see. It'd be cool if we could try. Let's try something about what happens. OK. You want to try that? OK. And if you want to. You just did it. You just hit a really good note. If you want to change the key, let me know. But OK. Yeah, no big deal. I know I was telling Travis. I said, do we have the keys? And he said, yeah, we can do them in your key. And I said, yeah, but that's just it. I don't remember what the keys are. Oh, yeah. No, I wrote him down. He listened to some recordings and he got the keys off. Cool. Yeah, I wrote him down, too. I think I was doing it either G or. OK. Yeah, because it's in A on the record, but that's OK. That's the see that's I couldn't remember. It was either G or A. Yeah. Have you changed your keys over the years? I had to change a couple keys to go lower recently. Yeah, I've been having to do that a little bit. Yeah. I hate it when that happens, but I don't know. I just part of of aging, I think a little. I think it's cool. I like what happens to my voice. Yeah, I get older. Joni Mitchell, you know, that when she a lot of people commented on that, that her. You know, she couldn't hit the Roja notes like she used to or something. Yeah, but her voice is she's turned into like something sounds better now. I think it's amazing. It's almost like two different singers. Yeah. Yeah. And Emily Harris, she went through a similar thing, I think, like that, that album she did with Daniel and Wah. I love that album. Me too. Because it brought I like that album, the best of all her albums, I think, because she got this smoky thing in her voice that maybe Daniel brought it out in her or something. I don't know, but I thought it was beautiful that I do too. The way she sang on that album. I know she's so low now. Yeah. So cool. I think when I was younger, I used to get excited to get older so that I would have a lower voice. Really? Yeah, I used to say that. I can't wait until I'm older and I have a lower voice. Yeah, but mine went too much that direction when like I wasn't taking care of my voice enough. Like I was singing outside a lot without and or singing inside without proper monitors and stuff. So I was pushing and pushing all the time. And I ended up with no some of the vocal chords. Really? Yeah. Oh, wow. And I had to quit singing for like six months and just vocal. The only thing to do is just vocal rest. Oh, God. And I had to do that. And eventually they went down. So I didn't have to have them removed or anything. Thank God. Yeah, that would be so scary. Hey, did you you couldn't talk either? Or you just couldn't say at first? I they said no talking and no singing and for like six months and then eventually it came back. But I remember once I had a gig and I had I was so horse and I had to go and get a shot of Cortison just to get the swelling to go down so I could sing. Oh, wow. Yeah. So now I'm like, that's why now I do my vocal exercises and do all this sleep with the humidifier. Oh, wow. You know, that's good. I warm up now before I sing. I didn't when I was really young, but it's just it feels better. Yeah, like I have more control. God, it sounds so beautiful. I love this room. It's nice. This is a nice piano. It just feels so good. It's really nice at the risk of sounding like all hippie. Woo, I say that to my audience now sometimes when I'm talking to him about something I go at the risk of sounding and they all laugh. That's funny. They know what I mean. Yeah, it feels good in here. This place is a long if you don't know this isn't your I keep taking because it feels like your place, though. I made, I think my first and second record. I did some stuff here, though. It's so I've been here a lot, but this place been here a really long time. I don't know how long, but they do a lot of jazz records here. So really? Yeah.哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎哎 But at least I would have been around Cause there's something about what happens when we talk Something about what happens when we talk Does this make sense? Does it matter anyway? Is it coincidence or was it meant to be? Cause there's something about what happens when we talk Something about what happens when we talk Conversation with you was like a drug It wasn't your face so much as it was your words And there's something about what happens when we talk Something about what happens when we talk Music Well I can't stay around cause I'm going back south But all I regret now is I never kissed your mouth Cause there's something about what happens when we talk Something about what happens when we talk Something about what happens when we talk Something about what happens when we talk Music Wow, I love the way you play, just beautiful Thank you, I love the way you sing Almost kind of like a guitar in a way You know hit certain strings like the keys you hit I could hear those notes on the guitar kind of too I feel like I've listened to that recording from the album so many times That I was definitely kind of trying to play the guitar part Do you ride on piano mostly? I do a lot now but when I started riding I wrote on guitar because I was too It's like the piano, I played jazz piano for a long time I had a block with writing so I had to play I learned like five chords on the guitar and then I wrote easily You know the sort of switching to an instrument you don't know as well That helped me right Yeah, wow, that's interesting Cause I feel like now if I knew piano besides guitar I could stretch out more as far as my song writing goes Like it would take me to different places That's what I find Different instruments will take you to a different place Cause you're not going to the same chords you're always going to Yeah, definitely Have you ever sat down at the piano like, you know, did you ever at home? I did want to when I was a kid My parents took me to this teacher and I was going to start But then I didn't like the teacher I just didn't like the vibe and I didn't feel comfortable Yeah, it has to be right Yeah I can't get over that You were saying you did some jazz for a while? Yeah, I kind of started out more doing jazz See that I can tell, you know That's a great background to have Yeah, did you grow up listening to a lot of jazz? Yeah, cause my dad loved cold train and chef Baker Yeah, that's the good stuff Yeah And it really helps when I'm playing with other musicians If they understand a little bit of that jazz thing Yeah It really makes a difference I love it Wow This is already so fun Thanks for playing Oh, thank you Yeah, it's great Just tell me when you need me to It just kind of helps me a little cause I'm so used to hearing Totally I was trying to explain this on the bus the other night I know her picking pattern, she uses her thumb and her first two fingers It's a weird way that like And I just, there was like how do you know how to do it Cause I tried to play Lucinda Williams songs for so long Yeah But she kind of lays a, there's a thumb There's a thumb thing and then the finger thing And she lays the vocal right in here Yeah And she's always listened, like if you're just like She's like Yeah, that's too nice You have a particular kind of Right, I have it You know what, I learned this new word in Orige It's cadence Yeah, you do have a cadence And it's a certain thing and it's hard to explain To other people sometimes, you know Yeah, well it's that magic part of music that you can explain You have to feel it Yeah But see, you go right there because I noticed like when you first started playing You gave it this kind of Kind of this almost bluesy kind of Or jazz kind of vibe, you know Like I love it The soul thing It is, it's hard to just To try to verbalize music It's almost impossible Yeah, that's why I enjoyed listening to the book Because you verbalize it in a way that But only because I knew the music so well It kind of enhanced it, you know Yeah But yeah, I always think whenever People are asking me questions about the music I don't ever know how to answer it And I'm like, well just listen to it I guess You know, makes more sense I also really love the song Bust to Baton Rouge Which you talk about in your book too Yeah, I've really been enjoying doing that song lately We've been playing it live a lot Yeah Well I think people just love it too probably Yeah, I think they do too Because when I announce it When I say the name of the song, you know People clap Yeah, it's got that emotion It's interesting because again I know this song so well for so long From listening to that album Mm-hmm But I had my own relation to it So it was nice to hear you talk about You know, the places in your childhood Where this came from And I don't know, I almost started crying When I was listening to it because I don't know, it reminded me of my mom And my mom's from Oklahoma Really? And her whole family is Wow From down there and I don't know Kind of just She has a lot of stories of her childhood That kind of It felt nostalgic to me in a way You identified with a lot of it Because of where her mother's from Yeah, I mean not me but more through her Yeah Yeah, that's interesting I didn't know that about your background Yeah, I grew up in Texas mostly I think Okay But she's from Oklahoma Yeah And this is bad Well, we're all from kind of not too far away from each other Travis is from West Virginia Yeah Yeah, hillbilly You're from West Virginia I'm proud of it I am proud of it I love that, it's a beautiful place To be from Do you live there still? No, I live in Nashville Where you live in now? In Nashville Oh, nice Yeah There's a little scene there that's cool You know, so many people I knew were moving there I know And you know, and my husband Tom and I were always going back and forth So much there and staying there Staying in a hotel whenever we were there And we decided, you know, this isn't really cost effective Yeah We should probably get a house here That's good And the real estate was in a good place So we went ahead and decided to buy the bullet And got a little house in East Nashville That's nice It's really easy to live there It's things that are so much closer together We moved there from LA And you know, we were just ready for change I was just ready for a little bit smaller city It's a small big town, right? That's kind of what they say Exactly, yeah It's kind of like a college town Yeah, that's always nice, I think Yeah And that's what I'm used to Because those are the kinds of towns I grew up in Yeah The college towns are so great Because they're small enough to be comfortable But then there's still enough culture there For it to be interesting Yeah And that's kind of how Nashville is Always good coffee in a college town Yeah Yes, always good coffee You want to try Busta Baton Rouge? Yeah Yeah I'll just sing it and you can... Okay I had to go back To that house one more time To see if the camellias were in bloom For so many reasons It's been on my mind The house on Billmont Avenue Built up on cinder blocks Off of the ground Walked with the rain And the soft swampy land By the sweet honeysuckle That grew all around We were switches When we were back I took a bus To Baton Rouge I took a bus To Baton Rouge All the front rooms were kept closed off I never liked to go in there much Sometimes the doors, they'd be locked Cause there were precious things that I couldn't touch The company couch Covered in plastic Little books about being saved The dining room table That nobody ate at And the piano that nobody played I took a bus To Baton Rouge I took a bus To Baton Rouge There was a beautiful lamp I always loved A seashore was painted on the shade And it would turn around When you switched on the bulb And gently rocked the waves The driveway was covered With tiny white seashells A fig tree stood in the backyard Other things I remember as well But to tell them would just be too hard Ghost in the wind That blow through my life Follow me wherever I go I'll never be free from these chains inside Hidden deep down in my soul I took a bus To Baton Rouge I took a bus To Baton Rouge I took a bus To Baton Rouge You're brilliant, Nora. Sorry, I didn't go to the G either. Where? Oh, there, at the end. Where? I just did the C to... I'm just trying to follow you. You're good. On the interleaves, I just kind of did the C to F thing. Okay, cool. Instead of going doing the whole cycle. Got you. I didn't know if there was a solo I can't remember. I don't remember. When we started doing the harmony then, it was so pretty. Is there a D minor 7 there? Is that what's happening? I think so. Baton Rouge. Yeah. I'm sitting here with Nora Jones. She's playing piano. I'm sitting here with this and the Williams. We're singing together. It's amazing. In New York City at this wonderful studio. It sounds like, you know what that sounds like? It sounds like when Elf, when he's singing the jingles. And I'm singing and you're my tab but you didn't know about me. But I'm here and I'm singing. I love you and I'm singing. And I love you, I love you, I love you. I was actually just telling Jamie, as I've gotten older, I don't cry a lot. I don't know if it's because I've become hardened or what. But there's only a couple of things that kind of helped me get it out. And one of them is Elf, the movie. And one of them is listening to your music. Which is a funny two things to put together. But I get... You laugh when you see Elf. No, I cry. Oh. There's this one part in Elf that I cry every year. It's like the whole year builds up and then that's... Really? There's this scene where the sleigh finally flies and they finally all realize that the magic of Christmas is real. And I just like... I can't... I don't know, it's such a weird place to cry because it's not sad. But... There's poignant. It's so good. It's just so well done. But I do the same thing with your music. I don't know, I think I've cried... I've come to see you a few times too and just weeped in the audience. And it's interesting. I think your music has obviously a really visceral, emotional quality to it. Maybe it's your voice, the songs of course. Thank you. The way you record, it's not overly... It's not that annoying thing about music. It's the real heart and raw soul of it. I love that word visceral. Yeah, I know. I used it and I thought, wait, am I using this right? No, that's a good one. That's good. Yeah, it's done well for me. Thank you for all the good cries. You want to try a... We've come too far to turn around. I love this song. Do you know, last time I saw you actually was that Love Rocks thing at the Beacon, maybe in 2019 or 18. And you came out and you did this song solo. And that's the first time I heard it. Wow. Yeah, that was the one where there were a lot of different artists and it was a tribute. Anyway... It was beautiful. You came out and ended this solo and I was so into the song. Really loved it. That's cool. Thank you. You did a version of it with Charles Lloyd. Right. Yeah. Which I listened to last night and I hadn't heard it in so long and I was pleasantly surprised at how good it sounded with him. It's so good. Yeah. I just loved him so much. He's great. You did that in the studio with him? Yeah. And we ended up going out on the road together and doing a bunch of shows. That's such a cool combination. I know. Yeah. He just blows me away. He's playing. Yeah. He's got that cold train thing. Yeah. You know. No, it was great. I'm so glad you recorded it that way too. It was cool. Yeah. Me too. I'm glad we have that down. Yeah. Yeah. Let's try it. I'm nervous. Let me start over. We are too. We're just looking at each other like, oh my God, she's doing the thing that she does. Take us out. All right. I'm going to have to move to New York now. I knew it. I'm in love. It's great. You're here. You're piano and the studio. Like, I want to transplant myself. If you come to New York, we'll do some stuff. We can hang out. We can have dinner. We can play music. I know. Can you see that? We need to do some shows together. That would be fun. You and Pia. I would love to do that. That would be amazing. I would love that too. Me too. Because then, because since a handful of my songs, several of my songs have really benefited from this type of arrangement. Yeah. It's hard to do that unless you're on, someone's on piano like this. Yeah. Or like Charles, Charles when he was doing the sax thing. Yeah. Like. And then it's hard to carry piano around or find a different one in each place. It's kind of tricky. Yeah. I mean, obviously you're not going to bring this on the road. So. Actually, we do bring a grand on the road. You do? I know. It's kind of crazy. How? Well, I put it in my pocket. No. I have a great crew who pack, there's like a case that it goes in and then it goes in the truck. Wow. There's an actual case. Yeah. For grand piano. Do they take the legs off? Yeah. They take the legs off. That's amazing. Yeah. It's kind of wild. But it's tricky because, you know, if you're playing outside in the summer. Yeah. The tuning. And it can change the tuning probably even in everything. It can be tricky. Yeah. But, you know, I haven't been able to switch to digital because it's just. Yeah. I can understand that would be a hard transition. Maybe if I was playing in like stadiums, but I'm not, I'm playing in theaters and it still feels like a real piano. Yeah. So. I had to, I had to learn it again too. Because even though I've done it so many times, but I don't know why that is. I just like I have to have all the worst of my own songs, you know, when I perform them. I mean, I was going to ask about that actually. Yeah. Because you have so many songs and they have so many lyrics. I know. And I just got to where I had to, we had to use a teleprompter because I used to bring a notebook literally with all the song lyrics, this big notebook on stage and put it on a stand and turn the pages and everything. And that got to be kind of cumbersome. Yeah. So we decided to go with the teleprompter thing. How do you know the number of songs that are inputted into it? I don't know if you know, Trump. No, I mean, upwards of a hundred probably. Okay. But that's not your whole. No. No. You just, just the ones you're doing live. But it's just the songs that I'm doing, you know, on that particular stretch of tours and shows. Yeah. There's a big database where in a Google Drive and if a song pops up in the set that hasn't been done since the teleprompter days. Oh yeah. It gets, it's pulled from the Google Drive and put into the teleprompter that way and then it lives there forever. Got to love technology. Say they know all this, you know, digital stuff that I still don't understand really. No. Your analog. Your analog. All the way. I'm being pulled gently along. That's good. Into the digital world. Just follow the music. Into the cyber universe. Just follow the music. It's all good. Well, it makes things convenient. Yeah. You know, and easier to manage when you have to tour and do all these things with all these songs and instruments and all this different people. And I have, I have like four or five songs in the set usually that I kind of need a little help with lyrics and I'll have them on the piano. But then it's like, you know, then I'm like turning it, but it's not in a book. Yeah. I was doing the pages and the, that was working until I was playing at the bridge concert one year. And I was like, I'm going to go off. Yes. A gust of wind came along and blew all the pages onto the stage and there I was completely in a panic trying to grab all the pages and put them back on the music stand. And Emily Harris saw the whole thing and she joked with me about, kind of teased me about it later, you know. So. That sounds like an anxiety dream that I've had. You know what I mean? You're on stage and all of a sudden you don't know how to finish what you're supposed to be doing. I know. That's all it takes is one time of forgetting the words. You know, I know ever since then I had to have kind of a little cheat sheet, just something to kind of just fall back on. Yeah. To spur you along. And it, to me, it really gave me a sense of, it was really liberating as far as singing goes because I didn't have to think about, okay, what's that next line or what words coming up next. I could just concentrate on the singing. Yeah. And just be in the moment. Right. Exactly. That's great. I'm glad they have that now to help us. But you know, then I see people like Steve Earl get up and sing these needless to say he had all of his songs with all of his, you know, a multitude of complicated lyrics and he's up there wailing away, you know, with no words printed or anything just off the cuff. I know. Some people, I've noticed some people really laser in that way. Yeah. It's nice when you can. I mean, we have moments of doing that. It's just hard to always do it. You have just so many songs. It's weird because when I first started out playing live and everything, I just, you know, I never forgot the words. I knew them all and just, you know, get up and sing without any kind of assistance like that. Yeah. I don't know how somebody like Bob Dylan does it. He probably has a prompter now, but I see all those videos from like the 70s and there's verse after verse after verse. And he's just laser focused on something else, the song, you know. Yeah. Yeah. It definitely inspired me when I saw that to learn my lyrics better. Yeah. Yeah. Like where it says instrumental, is that a solo? Yeah. I'll just do a little, maybe I'll just do the same like the intro where it's not a full on, we don't go to the bridge. Right. Okay. Did I actually ride a bridge? Well, when I say bridge, I think I come from the old school jazz standard terminology where when, when we used to say bridge and talking about jazz tunes and it was like kind of more of a chorus, but it's not the same. So I always say it wrong and confuse people. I was just saying that because there's this running joke about how my songs don't have bridges. Yeah. I've told in my concerts like one of the, this record company guy had called me in for a meeting because he liked my music and liked my songs. And he said, I think you need to go back to the drawing board though as a songwriter because none of your songs have bridges. That's insane. You know, which song was he talking about? Well, one of them would have probably been changed the locks. That's one of my favorites. It doesn't need a bridge. Right. Which was recorded by Tom Petty. So I didn't do too bad there. Yeah. But, you know, a lot, I just didn't think about that standard way of writing. I have a hard time with bridges. If they're inspired, I love them. But sometimes they feel like they're come from a different song. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I don't know. Have you ever written one? I don't think so. I don't know. I can't think of any of my songs. You do. They're just, you probably wouldn't call them bridges. I mean, we were having this conversation. This one, that's kind of, I would kind of call that a bridge. To me, this is not bridging to a chorus. I think that's what the more pop terminology of the bridge. You have to do this thing in order to get into the chorus. Yeah. It's like a little other section between the verse and the chorus. Right. It's the link between the end of the verse and the chorus. Yeah. It's like this other world, the bridge. But I don't know. Yeah. I wouldn't call this a technical bridge. I just call bridges from jazz, jazz land. See, I love that. Yeah. I keep hearing a wreath of Franklin's voice in my head. I keep hearing yours. Okay. Yeah. I'm ready. All right. Here we go. Ready? Here we go. Ready? We are weary of these trials of tribulations. We are tired. But we have come too far to turn around. From the city of Atlanta to Birmingham, Alabama, we have come too far to turn around. We are here to bear witness to this monstrous sickness we have come too far to turn around. We have stared into the eyes of evil. We have slow danced with the devil. We have sat down at his table and shared with him in the feast. We have swallowed the liquid off his eyes. Tolerated the one we despised. We have been betrayed by his disguise and fooled by his beliefs. We have been victims of his wrath and we've wagered from the past and we have come to turn around. We have laid down the burden of hate and separation because we have come too far to turn around. We have been on this trail of tears for over 400 years. We have been on this trail of tears and we have come too far to turn around. From the city of Atlanta to Birmingham, we have come too far to turn around. We have stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood and stood by his disguise and flew by his beliefs. We are weary of these trials of tribulations. We are tired, but we have come too far to turn around. That's great. That song is never going to sound the same without you, Nora. Oh man, that is a powerful song. It struck me the first time I heard it. I couldn't believe it. It was really just like straight to the thing. I was pretty angry about what was going on with the world. The world, the person who was trying to run the world. Yeah, I got that sense. The Mr. D.T. It's funny how you can be so specifically angry about something and write a song like this and it can still cover so many eras of being angry about something. Yeah. Right? But I was also thinking back on the struggles from the civil rights movement and the women's movement and just all of these battles that everybody's been through, really. Yeah, well, it goes deep. Over the hundreds of years, the Native American struggle and the black struggle, there's just been so many struggles along the way. Yeah, when I was reading your book, it sounded like your dad and maybe your mom also, they were really involved. Progressive and involved in things. Yeah, well, my dad's, my dad was also, my grandfather on my dad's side was involved in the Southern Tenant Union's farmer struggle when they wanted to unionize because they weren't being paid fairly and everything. That was when there'd be a plot of land like a farm and people of color would be working the land. They would essentially rent a plot of land from the landowner and then work, each person would work his plot of land. But there were some problems that went along with that. So people gathered together and tried to help them unionize and my grandfather was got involved in that. Wow. And was supportive of them and everything. Because sometimes they would have to have meetings in private and some people would offer their homes for the activists to come in and have meetings to talk about what they needed to do. And my grandfather was one of those people who would let them hold meetings in his home. Wow. And he was real active and progressive and of course he was a minister. So a lot of times that, you know, he was fighting against the church at the same time because they wouldn't be as supportive a lot of times. That's quite the line to walk at that time. It is. Oh yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. I always, when I tell this story, when I'm doing my shows, I always say my grandfather was a Christian in the true sense of the word. Yeah, that makes sense. You know, he walked the walk and talked the talk. That's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. You can tell this song comes from a deep knowledge of the struggles. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's what I love about it. It's so powerful. It's good not to forget. It's important. Yeah. Yeah. That's why songs are good to help you. Right. Help you, help to gently remind you to get off your ass and be progressive and move forward. Yeah. Do you do that song every night? No. Not every night, but I'm thinking I'm going to probably want to do it at the tomorrow night at the beacon. Yeah. I might want to do it. Yeah. It's just so relevant. The audience just seems to really gravitate towards it. Yeah. Yeah. It was like the first time I heard it, I was like, it's one of those songs where you don't need to know it. It just strikes you as soon as you hear it. Yeah. Yeah. It reminds me, of course I was inspired so much by a lot of the beautiful older protest songs that we used to sing like We Shall Overcome. Yeah. It probably reminds me of that one the most. Yeah, it does. Whenever those songs would be sung by a group of people, it just felt so wonderful to be included in that group singing with other people the same song and feeling a similar way. There's just this such a strong connection between the people singing it and it's just a good feeling. Yeah, there's nothing like that. There's nothing like that. Wow. So I was trying to, I wanted to get that feeling again of how that felt back then to doing marches and singing those songs and everything. It's beautiful. The new album has a really beautiful song on it where the song will find me. Yeah. I was wondering if we should do that one. Yeah, that'd be great. This song, how old, when did you remember when you wrote this song? Well, the interesting thing about this is I actually got some help on this from my husband and manager Tom Overby who as it turns out is, it's come to my attention is a pretty darn good songwriter. Apparently, before we met a long time ago, he had been interested in writing and all of that and it came to the surface after we met and I was working on songs and he would come up and shyly show me some lyrics that he'd written an idea. Oh, cool. You know, he'd say, I got this idea for something. Now, you don't have to use it if you don't want to. I just wanted to show it to you. That's so sweet. And it was sweet and I would take it and I'd look at it and it would be good, you know. Yeah. So this was one that he came up with that I wrote the melody for. Oh, cool. These are his lyrics? Yeah. I love the idea of this. I know the idea behind it is really different, unique. It's so sweet. And then the last line, well, I won't give it away, but the last line is also so beautiful to me. Yeah. Yeah. The feeling of where the song will find me. Yeah. All right, cool. And this is on the new album. Yeah, this is on the new album. All right, let's try this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sitting on a stool In the corner of a car The errand of a fool Has carried me this far To a place Where the song can find me To a place Where the song can find me I know they will find me Like they always do I know they will find me When it's time to I know they will find me When they're ready to be found They'll come up behind me Without making a sound Without making a sound I want to feel that I want to feel that moment When the song can find me I want to feel that moment When the song can save me I want to feel that moment Yay! Yay! I think we got it. That was beautiful! Wow. That was a beautiful song. Thank you. That was great. It sounds so good with the piano. I've never heard it like that before. The chords are pretty on this. They're really, I like the little corners they go to. Yeah. Yeah. I love that you picked that up probably when you heard the recording. I guess Doug's doing that on a guitar or something. Yeah. Then you know, I'm like, where's he going to go? And he slides and you know. Yeah. It's so pretty. I love that. That's beautiful. That's Doug Pettybone. Yeah. I love his guitar playing so much. This was so fun. Thank you so much. Oh, I just thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm so glad you were up for it. Yeah. Oh yeah. Well, I've made myself up for it. Well, I appreciate that. Man, when you're on the road, it's hard to be up for anything on a day off. But this was an exception. Well, I'm so glad. I knew I was going to want to do this and I wanted to do as best of a job as I could. You did great. You sound great. Thank you. I like when we were first communicating about doing this and you said, and I said something about rehearsing the songs first and you said, no, we're just going to jump right in. And I totally got that. But when you get it, when it's spontaneous, there's nothing like that. Exactly. Yeah. I'm glad you were down for that. Oh yeah. I understand that concept. That's how you record. Well, yeah, me too. That is how we record. Yeah, I don't like to rehearse. I don't like to rehearse either. No, it's the kiss of missing it. Yeah, it is. Well, thank you so much. Well, thank you for having me. I love you so much. I love you so much. Thank you. I hope you're having a great time out there. Oh, I just, I loved it, Nora. I really did. I mean, I've never just been able to sit here and hear you play piano this course. I've never played piano this close up and everything just, you know, I'm a fan. Yay, I'm a fan. Thank you, Travis, for joining us. Hey, thank you for allowing me to be here. This was a treat. It was lovely and beautiful. And I just, one of the songs we were doing, I kind of got chills a little bit. Oh, good. My heart was just so big and just going, oh, love, love. Sometimes I just get these just overwhelming feeling of, and I just want to hug everybody and. That's the good stuff. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good place to be. Well, I'm going to hug you now. Is that okay? Yes. Please. Oh, Milu. Oh, so sweet. She's just so great. She's a hugger. Yeah. Of course. Southern, Southerner. Yeah. I loved her stories. Also, I got to say to everyone out there and also you, I don't know if you read it, but her book is great. I have not read her book yet, but I'm going to now. I really enjoyed it. Just hearing her talk about her parents, it was really moving and it's an interesting story. It's called Don't Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You, and it's great. She's very giving with her stories about her songs, which I really didn't expect. I always expect people to be a little more protective of that stuff. I don't know why, maybe because I am. Yeah. But I like when they're not. It's really nice to get a little peek into stuff. And really good stories to go with everything. Yeah, it's beautiful. If you want to hear the names of the songs we played in this episode, the first one was something about what happens when we talk from Sweet Old World 1992. That's one of my favorite songs. The second song, also one of my favorites, Bust a Baton Rouge from Essence, which was released in 2001. The third one, which is also one of my favorite newer songs, We've Come Too Far to Turn Around. She released this on an album called Vanished Gardens, which she made with saxophonist Charles Lloyd from 2018. Number four, we played Where the Song Will Find Me, which was from a newer record, 2022, called Stories from a Rock and Roll Heart. I love that song. Special thanks to Lucinda Williams and Travis Stevens for joining us today. We'll be back next week with Eva O'Donovan. Nora Jones is playing along as a production of I Heart Podcasts. I'm your host, Nora Jones. Thanks for listening. Today's episode was recorded at Searsound in New York City by Steven Sacco. Assisted by Maximilian Tropy and Moe's Wheeler and Jasper Leach. Mixed by Jamie Landry, edited by Sara Oda, with additional recording by Matt Maranelli, audio post-production and mastering by Greg Tobler. Artwork by Eliza Frye, photography by Shreven Lenez, coordinating producer Rachel Ward, executive producers Aaron Wong-Coffman and Jordan Runtog, marketing lead Queen Anakie, and produced by Nora Jones and Sara Oda. Hey, that's us. Thanks so much for listening. Adios.