Michael Bingham of Spiritual Cramp

Hey, what's up? It's Joel Madden here and it's festival season and as you know our friends at DWP always bring the best rock shows in the summer First up in Daytona, Florida is welcome to Rockville from May 7th to May 10th Lots of artists friendly alumni are on this lineup Everybody from architects the offspring Co-heating Cambria simple plan under oath a Trey you yellow card switch foot and many more Make sure to follow revolver mag for all your DWP updates, and we'll see you at the show I got home from a tour yesterday, and I was hanging out with my wife And I was like we played this really beautiful show. Have you ever played the great American music hall in San Francisco? Yes, you know that room. Yeah gorgeous pre earthquake room. Yeah. Yeah, and We we sold it out like to the gills with a hundred person guest list right people were hanging off your friends Every person in the room new show I had all of my family in a reserved box We all had our families in their reserved seats in every person in the room new lyrics and we played this beautiful show And we played so well. Yeah, you know and they all got to see it They all got to see the thing that's happening right now In its most thoughtful form I don't want to have bad Yeah, here we are. Well, thanks for coming. Thank you for having me. This is amazing Thanks. Yeah, how you doing? I'm I'm really good. I just got back yesterday from like 40 day tour The rudest band in the world the rudest band in the world. That's me the rudest guy. I'll ever meet Uh, you don't strike me as rude. I don't get rude Yeah, well, well, there's some so sometimes Yeah, we have a part of us We only really expose it In our art. Yeah, and then there's the More front-facing part of us, which is a little bit more maybe reserved certainly then we are in our Man, I was digging you're just going going right in absolutely. Yeah, for sure. I definitely think that that is What happens with the band? I mean, you know the band started and it was a little that part of it You know that one of the coolest band names ever by the way spiritual cramp. Thank you Crap is a great name. Yeah, I have always loved it We were looking for a band name and a friend was like, why don't you name it after this christian death song? Um, and and I thought that was a cool idea. But yeah, when we started it was much more lawless I mean, it was it started in san francisco. We were all running around the bars out like little gremlins, you know causing trouble Um, very punk. Yeah, very like whatever. Let's just make some cool seven inches and Cool guy everyone we meet. Yeah, you know what I mean like the intention behind it was was not what it is today and We'll change that what changed the intention. Yeah, what changed that that attitude time And and you know like I think that I have always had like an ambition Right, like we all have ambitions that I have them. I'm feeling that as I walk into the studio I'm saying there's some ambition behind this. Yeah By the way the the quote about how anything built on a grand scale invites chaos. Yeah, and I saw that I just It's kind of cool, right? It's extremely. Yeah, it's very real. The artist that did that was um revoke Oh, that's revoke. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, cool. Nice. Very cool. That's cool. That's a revoke piece one of the last great active Okay, I'll get in trouble because I'm not a graffiti guy. So all the graffiti people out there Just thinking me as your dumb cousin. Yeah me me too, but they know that I'm the dumb cousin too. Okay, so so just Preferably that uh one of them the real active graffiti artist rebels out there of our time, I'd say yeah Yeah, for sure. I don't think I'll get in trouble for saying that but I'm always respected them. Yeah I'm msk did a lot of work in san francisco in um in the early 2000s Um, so we all knew who they were as well They came up and rocked all those jagged letters all over the city. But yeah, um, I mean You know ambition, right? Is just this thing that is inside of you, right? And it's an it's it's like a It's like a moving target and you have a blindfold on And you say I want to go somewhere and I think it's in this direction And as you start chasing whatever it is that you know, whatever it is inside of you tells you to chase You know it that thing inside says go and go and swing at this go you learn How to walk in that direction more efficiently and untie you know, sometimes you do things you tie your shoelaces together on accident Right and you know you learn how to untie them and then you learn how to get better shoes for walking, right? So I think that like some of those things, you know, like being a nasty punk band who like is going to get in fights everywhere You go and you know, you know, we hung out we this band was born in in in the tenderloin in san francisco Yeah, that's a very crazy place. Yeah, totally every time I've ever been there. I'm like, oh, oh my goodness Yeah, I feel like I'm in danger right now. Yeah And like we played either for our first show is at this bar called the hemlock and like Yeah, I know I know I know of that bar. Yeah, I've never been in there but and you know as a band has grown like it's like I in particular as you know, the figurehead of the band have just I've put a lot of effort into consciously trying to grow and and consciously trying to get better at movement and and you know, a lot of those things don't a lot of those Those rude, you know, those rude behaviors. They're not productive in the sense of Going forward. Yeah, and with as little trouble as possible Yeah, because if you're solving small problems all the time because you've created small problems in in meaningless You know, it's like the pick your battles kind of thing Yeah, well if I can move through a room without making enemies the whole time I can get through that room and probably be invited back and come Actually come back and forth through that room. Yeah as long as I don't create enemies for myself And I I think exactly what you're saying. I'll be honest with you to me. I was like, oh this is a very cool band and Um, I have no idea I idea how this conversation is going to go, but that's also like you came on so dude So it's exciting for me. Yeah, and then the first thing we start talking about is like growth mindset being more productive like that's my language Yeah, all I fucking care about. Yeah, you know, I live in LA like I know what you guys are doing Cool, and I'm inspired by thanks, man. I mean like true. I truly like you know, I mean, I don't mean to get like too like Businessy, but like they say that diversification is the key to wealth. Yeah, and it is actually yeah everyone listening. Yeah Like really it really is like I would love to just be the singer to abandon me like I don't know this success just happened to me and all I do is like make my little songs. Yeah That's not the truth for anyone. Yeah, doesn't matter what they say. Yeah to do this Well, you have to try you have to care you have to organize you have to try to do better You have to look at like doesn't matter. I'll carry any band says I'm not It's super critical when I hear a band talking about I'm fucking yeah But I'm like well, I wish you be successful in this as a if you're making money doing this You have organized yourself to a degree. Yeah, that's more organized than A street punk band that hasn't put a record out that'll never put a record out that you'll never hear of Unless you saw him at that show with those other band So yes, you have to organize to be successful at this. So let's just be real about it It's totally you know and like you're doing that but I'm saying there are sometimes you hear people and I'm like, well That's a nice idea. Yeah, you don't care. That sounds tremendous. I would I am Holy jealous of someone who's like, yeah, I don't know this is but I just that's not my experience It's not true. I think it can happen It will accidentally happen to someone on the first record and then sustaining it and and in real growth You know those the longevity takes organization. Yeah, totally And you know, I I know you guys are doing you know with all of this and and and you know mad in management Yeah, all the companies everything and and it's like that is if I can even scratch the surface of that Well, you can't I'm trying. I'm desperately trying. I'm desperately trying. I've been desperately trying for 30 years Totally. So that's how it feels, you know, because you moved to LA right and you start to meet like people who have success Yeah, you know, because as as it does happen and um, that is the vibe that I get that it is just always a constant You know, we're always just pushing a rock uphill, right? And it's it's a moving target, man Like it is I would love to just at one point be like, hey, that was that was great I'm gonna go become a postman, but it's that thing inside. It's like no, just keep just keep walking It's keep going in a direction. It's absolutely the scariest choice And then it's terrifying and then you get more and more comfortable living in that space Yeah, but I agree with you and you're speaking my language Honestly as like someone who's you know, much like yourself like I actually didn't know where you came from and then hearing you say You're from Maryland for Maryland. You know how it is around these parts, right? You you're going to meet someone You're like, I wonder if they have rich parents, you know, and I mean like that's it's LA and that doesn't mean it's not bad Or it's not good, you know, people can come from wherever they want But you know hearing you say like, you know, I didn't come from much. I didn't either and you know, even getting to come into Your home, you know, whatever you call this. It's this home. Yeah. Yeah getting to come into your home. I am How do I say this? It's exciting to me to be able to even be able to sit in this chair with you Yeah, and and kind of be like, oh we're like, I'm sort of speaking the same language as similar as someone who has done A lot and and and that's really exciting. I mean, you know, it's like you said, it's like a never-ending thing. I think um, but Yes, it's exciting to be here and to hear you say all that I'm like you say living at the edge of your comfort zone I'm like, cool. I'm doing that. Yeah, it's always a little scary. Oh my I live in fear And it is it is all about how you manage that remember the fear though the fear is a healthy respect for what's at stake Yeah Right. The fear is going all in. Yeah, but you know, you have aces If you're a real entrepreneur, you know, you have aces. I got him every I know I have I got him every when I go all in. I know what I have, you know, tumbre hand who works at stereo or does stereo gum Yeah, yeah, he wrote an article about us one time And in the article he mentions many times about how what we're doing looks effortless Yeah, yeah, it does it does and I and I was I was like You have no idea how much we talk about, you know, it's like every moment During the set the even even the size of the amps. Do they look good? You know every piece every detail matters every detail Anyone says some people sell chaos some people sell This some people sell that they're all selling in a feeling that people get and it's a good thing So I'm not saying but you have to you have to be precise enough to carry the show so that the chaos can happen So even if you're not planning in between or whatever, it doesn't matter It's being able you did write a set list You did look at where the fucking amps were going you did decide on the lighting you did decide on all the To whatever level of detail you were involved in or not as an artist You did make a decision and then you constructed a show So that even if nothing's planned you still constructed a show for the to contain the chaos So that it could happen that people could experience it And otherwise you wouldn't have gone on on time. You wouldn't have blah blah blah You wouldn't have blah blah blah So I don't care what any you could argue about it and lots of details But at the end of the day you built something Even if you're not planning that the excitement in whatever happens on stage happens You still built something to support that happening. Yeah, and you have to do it at an elite level Past 500 people Yeah, if you if you want to keep it, you know, because you learn so much going from zero to 500 tickets Right, that's where you really and if you can get up to 500 You know, what was it a green days manager once told me he said the road from zero to 500 Is like 10 times longer than the road from five to two thousand Yeah, way way longer and then by the time you're at 500 If and you did learn what you were supposed to learn, which is what you're talking about like how to Design something that is elite then you will grow you then it will go from five to two thousand for sure If it stops growing at 500 something you got to look at something and go what are we totally we need to pick this to the next level Something stopping us and there is something about that totally, but you're right. Yeah, there's zero to 500s the hardest Yeah, those are the trenches you're digging. Yeah, it's a mindfulness though that it takes Yeah, well you're talking about thoughtfulness and you have to combat self-esteem. You have to combat fear, I think it's all self-esteem driven, but like Anxiety and all that stuff you have to figure out what part of that is my old Programming from poverty or I got a lot of that program picked on at school or whatever And then what part of it? I'm actually misunderstanding as a bad thing which might be a good thing That might be my level of focus. Yeah, and your ambition to succeed and do well and grow Yeah, yeah, right, which is you know, I have one of a big one of those. Thank god great to hear. Yeah Yeah, but some you know someday some days more of you. Yeah some days, but some days you hear the voice wrong You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah You hear it as as something that's saying like you have a lot to be afraid of you know and that you know It is for me. It is a conscious choice to wake up every day and Say okay like like you're saying like am I actually afraid of this or am I just do I deeply care? And and I have to be thoughtful of that Because my my default mode is the poverty mode. Yeah, my default my default mode is is uh, Scarce I have a scarcity mindset scarcity. Yeah. Yeah, and yeah, and yeah, but the but you know You know those people who you meet in your life who they're like, yeah, man Like it's all good like don't worry about it and and everything's fine and that it's abundance mindset Yeah, and you want you know what like attracts like and you know that scarcity mindset of clinging to things and feeling afraid that You're gonna lose it. It's like that attracts that. Yeah But it's like how do you shift your mindset to abundance mindset when all you know Is that I gotta I gotta figure out I'm gonna get some cereal this morning. You know what I mean or whatever You know food how I'm gonna keep the cereal I have. Yeah. Yeah. How do I keep the cereal? Right? My fruity pebbles with marshmallows. Yeah, my favorite one. Yeah. Yeah off brand. Yeah, I'll tell you how I think I did it with a good Coach mentorship coaching and mentorship and okay. So first thing that comes to mind is who I hang out with Yeah, man You're the average of our the average of the group. Absolutely. I don't care what anyone says. Yeah And at some age you start to look at that and if you don't you're not growing up Yeah, and then sounds harsh It does it because it is harsh to have to be like oh man, you're not cutting it anymore You're not cutting it your habits don't align Yeah, your goals don't align your values don't align What's interesting too is if you set your mind to your goals and you're a goal oriented person That stuff will fall away naturally anyways Yeah, and so I always say to like let's say like I don't want to say my kids because it feels like They would hate it. They hate it when I like use them as an example because my kids are fucking cool. They're smart And they're very like edgy kids. They've had interesting lives. Yeah, so they're pretty mature Right, and they don't want to hear me talk about like preach anything But I would say like to a young person such as my kids I say you'll deal with that as long as you can Right, and then when you can't deal with anymore that person You won't and it'll fall away. How much time do you want to give it? Right, if you aren't ready to say hey this ain't cutting it. Uh, let them hang around. It's okay And they'll let me tell you can't handle it right? That's the thing too about uh music and and artists and this Entertainment businesses. We're all just fucking people So we're all going through the same thing as anyone listening to this like you're going through some relationship stuff or some job stuff Or like I could name five topics and that's likely going to cover what any of us could be going through Yeah, anyone listen right because we're all the same. Yeah, if it's a relationship, right? Well, I don't understand why He's not honest with me. I'm like, well, you'll you'll deal with it until you can't yeah And at some point you're gonna wake up and go I don't want to deal with this anymore and you'll move on Yeah, and instead of trying to force someone to be the way you want them to be Yeah, and then also there's a mindfulness to it where it's like I just don't know why they don't love me And I go well, why do you need them to love you? Well, then you can control everything and well think about that That's the question I've learned to ask myself when I can't get what I want from someone like why don't they love me? Yeah, why isn't it perfect the way I'm okay? Well, why do I need them to love me because I want to be loved? Okay Yeah, well do you love yourself? Yeah, well if you love yourself It could be enough. Yeah to sustain you long enough Until you meet someone who loves you. Yeah. Yeah, right and you could take that into business Why won't this company sign me or choose me or Why do you need them to is there because I want this and I'm like, well, that's not the only option in the world But it's the one in front of you right now But if you find your confidence and you really believe in yourself And you can't get there together and I'm like say you're at the table trying to make a deal and they won't give you what you want You can always walk away. Right and then Go look for it somewhere else. Right. I gotta decide if we're gonna negotiate first So I go let's see where we let's see where we're both at. Yeah, can we is there even really are we too far apart? Yeah, yeah, totally and most of the time I know I'm dealing with someone who's probably Probably going typically the normal route, which is let me just see how much And you see if I can and they're they haven't thought it through That's what you're mostly dealing with most of the time. Hmm Everyone's like buy as low as possible sell as high as possible very old way of thinking Yeah, yeah, instead of like value right partnership and real partnership and Synchronous city and stuff totally if you spell it out at the beginning of the deal This is kind of the style of deal I'd like to do and this is where I'm kind of thinking If that's too far from where you're at totally cool. Yeah, that's always kind of the approach And it's very real. It's very honest. Yeah, it's like actually where I'm at. Yeah, and I think beginning middle and end. I always think beginning middle and end of deal Right and I always think if things go sideways at this stage Is there a caveat and is there a lever? But We are all somewhere However far of a distance we are away from freedom Right in that capacity, right financially. So then I try to measure How far away I am? And then I find myself being closer and closer with each year If I just keep my eye on because you're looking at it because I'm looking at and you're and you're talking about and that's it Yeah, it's not even like a plan or I find myself more and more in line with freedom Right as I look at it me too and I continue to look up at it It's just painful to look at sometimes because it's maybe not painful It's scary to look at because I don't know. I don't know about you but I Learned that you just if you just remain silent about your problems, you know, you don't talk about it Be like, hey, like I'm in credit card debt. I don't know what to do About x y or z If you're saying that to people Some especially if you're like Learning how to surround yourself with the right people. Yeah, one of those people is gonna be like, hey, come over here sit down Look at this and I did yeah, like I wait. What'd you say? Well, this is what I did look this out totally Here's the game Yeah, and and then and if you really are truly if you really do want to get yourself You want to increase the your awareness of that pillar and learn and grow you'll listen It's just simple. It's called confirmation bias. Oh, what is that? So we have a bias to Find what we're looking for. Oh So if I believe that life is full of our chain suffering hardship totally and people who don't like me and things don't work out for me and Trouble along every like there's a problem everywhere I go. Yeah, we'll find it. You're gonna. Yeah, you're gonna self fulfill that That simple thing of a look for the red cars. Oh, there's red cards everywhere I see what it looks like look for the blue cars all those blue cars ever right We go through well As someone put it as simple to me as in the woods. We're looking for the bears Or the berries right it's a thin line, right? So we're our bias to believe and it's pretty deep It's like yeah, it's if I'm a person that I just can't find love and I really truly believe that in my core There's a lot of work in that that you have to do right to get to the bottom of your belief of yourself Yeah, but at the simple top level it's like the confirmation will be there every day Yeah, and so if I'm looking for answers, I'll find answers if I'm looking for friends I'll find friends if I'm looking for opportunities. I'll find them And as we find them we get confirmed in that bias. So it's like that builds momentum, right? And so the beginning of changing your Whatever your bias is. Yeah is the hardest part It is practice is the hardest because you know if all if all you've known is you're in the woods full bears or whatever Like if that's all you've ever known What I think is I think it really takes a I don't want because anyone can do anything right? Anyone can be an astronaut. Well, you know, that's a little as hyperbole, but like it can anyone can do anything Right if you are if you have enough tenacity But I think that you said it's like starting to break that confirmation bias is kind of the hardest part What I did is I searched for people because I didn't really have a lot of family, right? And so I just I like Found people who would be like, hey like you are worth something. Yeah, I'm at this guy He he his name is steward and he'll probably listen to this. He's he started spiritual cramp with me He was the first person to ever be like where is steward now? Stewart lives in san francisco He left the band because he didn't want to you know be in a full time in the life touring. Yeah, because you know That's the life. It's it's tough life tough life But you know, he runs a very successful Uh company now he's run a bunch of very successful companies And before I met or you know, even before I met him He's you know built these big companies and and you know sold them all off and he was the first person to ever Take me aside and be like him and like what you have is called leadership Capabilities, he was like all the people you just have never assembled people and explained that you were going to be the leader and I I searched for that guy my whole life. Yeah, you know what I mean and a good coach totally and now after meeting him And learning that he was Right. Yeah, I am good at leadership. Now all I do is search for people like that and you know That's all you should search for right all my friends feel like that. Yeah, it's something like that Yeah, all my friends feel something like either a coach or a cheerleader. Yeah, I would also throw people that you are now doing that You are mentoring that you are that for them. I try to define that In every relationship, right? There's only three roles for me. This is just me anyone listening. You don't have to Subscribe I either go. I'm a coach here. I'm a cheerleader here or I'm a player here Right and sometimes there's coach players. Yeah, sometimes I'm on the field playing and I'm coaching So so yeah, so I feel that way. Yeah, so I try to quietly in my head I always think like what what am I in this relationship? I'm a cheerleader Right just cheering them on right. I'm just trying to get them to keep going because they have it They don't need a coach necessarily my wife and the truth is is that you're like Maybe you're two out of three in every relationship. Sure. Sure. Maybe you're being coached. You're a player Maybe you're a coach and a player leader and a player. You're a cheerleader. It's just my wife in my mind I think that way. Yeah, I think like I got to be a coach or a cheerleader or a player Yeah, sometimes I got to be both but I I need to make sure that I'm doing one of three And nothing else right because if I'm just an angry fan Yeah, yelling my thoughts you should have done that play. Yeah a couch fucking. Yeah, yeah couch protester I'm no good to the fucking equation. So if I can't participate in a productive way, I just step out Well, I could just go play some video games. Yeah, you know There's other things to do if I'm gonna if I'm going to be a part of something where I'm like I'm not contributing and being contributed to and We got to be honest with ourselves if he's a better player in this Situation, yeah, he should run the ball. Yeah, you run the ball and I'll just cheerlead you. Yeah. Yeah, I'll just be your cheerleader Yeah, there's a thing with that. Some people can't stop when they say get out of your own way Yeah, it's a little bit that it's where are we getting in our own way because we aren't stopping and going like I should not be running the ball on this right where are you guys at in the music In the middle of the baby in the middle of a are you in the middle of an album? I know I hear man I was just yeah, well, we just released the record in November. Oh good fresh. Yeah. Yeah, totally Went to Europe with hives. Well, that's cool. Yeah, great tour went there immediately after the record came out we took a break for the holidays and Did you celebrate the christian holiday? Oh, you've never seen him. You've never seen a more Celebratory little elf than me. You like Christmas. I love christmas. My favorite too. I grew up without christmas I did I did I did grow up without like really much of uh, why poor family Oh, yeah, yeah, maybe in my parents were just, you know busy working on whatever it was that they had In front of them dealing with life. Yeah, totally man. Um, yeah, mine too. I get it. Um, I just lucky enough that now Did you have birthdays? I was born on a day and And if did you have birthday parties? I did not have a lot of birthday. No, how's your birthday? I work very hard to celebrate it and put my best foot forward every year. Good. And it's nice Yeah, it took me a long time. My wife helps with that. My wife helps with that as well I find myself to hide a little bit on my birthday. I have to actively take steps Weirdly sad every year for me. Yeah. Yeah. I feel weird too for sure Like I never got a lot of birthday parties. Maybe ever Yeah, and I always wanted one that was the thing I had to come when I was younger I had to come to terms with like I I got to a place where it was like, fuck birthdays I don't want to fuck a party and I still find myself saying that But I realized it was like as a kid I wanted like so-and-selves having a birthday party They're having a birthday party. They're having a birthday sound. It's awesome And then my wife is like every few years I'll let her put something together She's very sweet and my kids are sweet And then sometimes I find myself going like I don't want to do anything. I just want to go I just want to go to work. I just want to work. I just want to work. Yeah, yeah, totally It's weird. Yeah. Christmas though. I've allowed myself to We love Christmas. Yeah, I love Christmas My wife again, my wife is someone who has you know, put a lot of Sweat equity into Michael Bingham. Yeah Because she nurtured she saw she saw a lot of potential. Yeah, and uh, how long you guys been together? 21 years. Really? 21 years. Yeah, that's great. Long time. 20 years for us this year. Congratulations We were right on the same. Yeah, yeah. So you guys 2005. Yeah, something like that. That's great. What's your name? My name is Barbara. Nice. Yeah. Yeah, she's a hairstylist. Cool. She was actually the catalyst us moving down here four years ago She said I think I can do celebrity hair in LA and I was like Yeah, whatever. She's a cool hairstylist. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She does. Yeah, she does Hillary. Oh, cool She does Hillary and now they're like very she know matt. She knows matt amazing Do you know matt me and matt are supposed to be friends were we're on our way to becoming friends You gotta be friends with him. Yeah. Yeah, like me and matt are best friends. Yeah, okay That's your best. That's my that's my guy. Yeah, cool. And what we figured out and and Nicole and Hillary are best friends cool and What we found is actually Me and Hillary are more alike in the in the our Where we sit in the world and matt and Nicole are more. Oh cool. I like I've never met him Oh my god, but barb and Hillary have become very very close. That's nice. Um, and I mean, Hillary's amazing. Yeah. Yeah So I their family is incredible. Yeah The first time I met Hillary was at a birthday party and and I looked down and those people it was Hillary duff and And I was like, oh, not who I expected you to be but yeah, hello. I know you. Yeah, you know I'm gonna get past that and you know Incredible person Yeah immediately incredible family her and matt are yeah Incredible parents. Yeah incredible people. But yeah, so barb was like I want to move down here And she's she's always been the catalyst to my growth. Yeah, she's Same with Nicole. She's always like we we have to do this thing and I'm like, why would we do that? I'm I'm comfortable with where I'm at. We fear change. Yeah, we fear change Um, and she dragged me down to LA and same four years later. I'm like She's like say the line and I'm like I have experience lots of growth and my life is much better because of this moved LA That's right. So you're like, uh, you hated la before you moved here. I hated it Like a job. Yeah, I hated it like a job and they're all fake. They're all fake the town's fake. It's actually But I what what my wife taught me. Yeah, she's from LA. She's actually Not that I want to sit here and talk about in the call all day. But yeah, yeah, sorry But I do why I actually want to talk about our why I love our wives. Yeah, she was born in oakland Oh and was there her first, uh, you know her her first like Five years respect and then she was adopted And she moved down here with her, uh parents got it. Um, and when linea lembrenda Got it and then she grew up in LA and so LA is home But her first few years of her life were in oakland. She still remembers Oakland, yeah, okay, and um, she was you know, she came down here at an old enough age Where she has like formative memories with you know, her grandparents and stuff in oakland And so she does have like bay area roots that she she's got real roots there But she grew up in LA so she loves LA and she used to tell me because I'd be like, oh, fuck LA everyone's fake I'm moving when I first met her. I was like, I'm moving back Same I was like get out of here. Yeah, and she's like no like don't that's bullshit all that Everyone's fake bullshit. Yeah, he's like there's great people here Oh the best there was a moment in my life where I was like all my success my idea of myself was completely wrapped up in the success of the band And I that was if I'm being honest that was that was my measurement of myself, of course And we were like it had flat lines like now if I zoom out and go yeah Well, there was mp3's people were getting music offline. They'd stopped buying records spotify I hadn't really didn't develop until 2015 2016 was when that really Took root and became like the the standard and then 2018 2019 was when it really popped off where like you're measuring Your monthly listeners and this and that yeah, but there was no metrics for for success in music Unless you had a hit song or whatever and we were like 12 years into a career of like having hits and doing this and doing that And then it was just like flatline and in my mind it was over Yeah, yeah, of course all that fear that I was running away from yeah. Yeah. It was like well, it happened I'm gonna lose it all that was it for you. Yeah, of course and she's like it was like We had a real moment. She was like snap out of it. Yeah, how are you? Defining yourself. How are you measuring yourself because I don't see you as that? I don't I don't care if you ever do another fucking thing right with that right in fact. I hope you don't Yeah, yeah, let's move you a better for you that you don't let's fucking move to a farm Yeah, you want to do like let's go far away from this Wherever you're gonna be happy because that's all I care about and but it really bums me out that you would define Your self with that Yeah, and she was like you need to go And talk to somebody and you need to figure out Yeah, like what you how what you want to live for yeah And it was like holy shit. It was the first time anyone said to me Like I don't need you to be a success in the world. Yeah, you're good enough Right and that was the beginning of like my real I think like personal growth. Yeah, and that's what like an amazing partner Does yeah, I mean, you know, they say like uh When you hold sand If you grasp it, it'll all fall out of your hands. Yeah, but if you hold it gently, you know, it's like It's like what you're talking about with career stuff. It's like, you know, it's something starts to change and You know, it's not like you want it to be and you're like, well if I just Grab this as tight as I can I'll and then a bunch of the sand's gonna fall out and But it doesn't feel like that right in the moment It's just like you're like it feels so scary and desert Well, you know, whatever that is, right? You know Any sort of change, you know, I got fired from my from my job in 2023 because you know I had I had like a real job before I was in music. What job was it? I worked as a project manager at a tech company. Oh, wow Yeah, that I like photoshopped a degree to get in. Oh, wow. Yeah, I did don't have a degree I do not have a degree. Did you go to college? I did not go to college the day entry level job moved up like wow figured out how to Move in the ecosystem and then in 23 You know, we got we got signed to a label. We got the other putting some money into the band We had a a great agent awesome manager Touring touring start building Start moving from zero to five. Yeah, you know, you're meeting me at like seven. Great, you know, right? But I got you guys are happening spiritual cramp is to me like one of the coolest bands Out let me say this to you. Thank you. It's fucking cool. I appreciate that so cool that I was like, what's he gonna be like? Which is cool. Thank you trust me a little little nerf for me. It's good. Standoffish. Standoffish closed off. Yeah. Yeah, that's me You guys are happening. Oh, I appreciate it as you could I just love the music. It's got all the right fucking great. It's like, it's like everything I love About old music, but it's not trying to be old Which is where most bands get wrong when they like call to the past like like I think I can hear influences without like It's not a parody of some but there's all the stuff I love like whether it's the clash or this or that There's stuff in there that I'm like the ingredients is really good. It's like If you're eating a meal, it'd be like really all your favorite stuff. That's what it is. But it's fresh. Yeah It's real. It's supposed to be that too. It's I really think you guys are really one of those bands That have a really bright fun future. Thank you with the kind of music you make. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, you know, I feel that way too Yeah, you know some days, you know, and then others I'm like, this is not gonna work. Yeah, you know, but yeah But yeah, I mean, thank you so much. Yeah, for sure It's really fun to create something in the image of what you think Should be in the world, you know, like what all those things that you just said about how it's like, you know, we're pulling from You know sham 69 and we're pulled but we're also pulling from block party I love that reference and trying to put those two things together and then Offer it up in a way that looks feels tastes and smells Fresh. Yeah, it's such a fun project. Yeah. Um, so it's it's great to hear that, you know, that it hits it hits for you Yeah, and you know, nothing happens overnight. No, no, no, no, no, it doesn't happen overnight But we just got back from you know, the I literally just got home from a 40 day tour yesterday Oh, wow, as you know, the rudest band in the world tour. Yeah, it's working. Yeah I was out there. I saw feel it. Oh, there's there's people you can feel whether it's electric and when it's not Yeah, totally. Yeah. I mean it definitely we were all out there and we were like if you know, we were in Toronto and we thought I bet there'll be more people here next time guarantee it, you know what I mean? That's what it in la sf dc new york all of these shows that it really did feel like different But you know one day at a time, right as as our as our anr says who I I I am in love with our label. Are you on? We're on a record label called blue grape. Cool. Um, Dave Wrath who is he was Head of anr at road runner for like 25 years. Yep He started his own label And you know, he works very he and I work very closely together and he always says to me says one fan at a time mike And man, he said that when we first started working together, it's very true And I was like I was like no, that's not how it happened three years later. I'm like, man, you were right This is one fan at a time, brother But yeah, oh, yeah, I got fired 23. I got fired in 23. I'm your tech job my tech job and my wife Was like and I was like Because you know, I did we were doing the band part time. Yeah, it was like this cool guy. Yeah, yeah seven inch and my wife was like Hun it's time to jump with both feet See feels like the universe is telling you it's time to jump off this cliff Cannonball or stop talking about it. Yeah, either shit or get off the pot She had to get off the pot and it has been three years And I have looking great and I'm like, what a good partner and I opened my eyes and I'm like talking to you You guys know like best friends I've never had a Friend closer on this earth than than that woman. Where's she from? She's from pedaluma. Where's pedaluma? It's about 45 minutes north of san francisco. Oh cool. Yeah, bay area. Yeah, she's she's bay area. Yeah, we see a punk rocker No, oh, oh no. No, she's like She's she she is by proxy right. She knows everyone right? Yeah, you know, she's been with you forever She's in she's in the middle of it. But no, she she she likes actually she's a little bit punk She she loves your band punk adjacent. She's punk adjacent for sure. Yeah, I'm punk adjacent You're I would argue that you're you're punk I've had my moments the first time I ever heard of like the unseen. Yeah. Yeah, my brother was your brother's shirt And I remember being like of them. Yeah, I love like street punk bands. Yeah all those bands the casualties Yes, all those bands. He he knew them all he would go Yeah, this is it was funny. Yeah, you loved all that. So you're a punk. You're a punk guy But she she likes she was the first person ever showed me the killers. Oh cool. I like I love the killers Yeah, I I didn't like the killers when when I heard it right and now now I'm like This is what I want my band to do and Iran for you. I just I was I was too busy listening to the casualties Right, you know, you like that real shit. Oh, yeah, I was way too punk. You're dirty or anything Yeah, and and and and it was uncool and I couldn't be uncool totally And now I'm like the most uncool guy in the world. I think spiritual cramp is I would put it on like a lot of my lists my top lists I love it's amazing and we're cool and this to me like this show is a music show Yeah, yeah, and at the core of the show like oh when we started to now I've always just wanted bands to have a place that's substantial to like come and share their music with people Because there's just not that many places these days. Yeah to really actually get a good look Yeah from music fans. Yeah, and everything's kind of like really quick hit turn and burn press. Yeah And so with the big platforms is it's not a lot of places you can go To like share your music these days And so when we started this show the ultimate goal for me was to have the biggest music show in the world Where our musicians could come and music fans could get a sense of them Sure And a lot of people might be discovering your band like that are listening So for me it was like you're one of those bands I would put on like Share with your friends kind of band. You know what I mean? I think a lot of people feel that way That's probably why you're getting you're feeling that right now the energy of that Yeah, because you're a real share of bands sharing band. We were a bands band. Yeah for a while People would always say this sentence to me that I really didn't like yeah, they would be like dude I just wish you guys were bigger right and I'm like Yes, I do as well And it it does it's starting to feel you're getting bigger like that bigger. Yeah You are bigger getting done with that tour. Yeah, I walked in the door and I said to barb. I was like There's something happening out there. That was a success. Yeah. Yeah And that that that is yeah ready for more of it. You know, I hope so I hope we can oh, I'm telling you I hope so it's good to hope. Yeah, but the bullets left the gun. Yeah the ship is sailed I hope so. Yeah, I'm telling you right now. Yeah, the thing is doing it's doing what it does which is again Like it's organic. So yeah, it's like watching a plant grow sometimes But before you know it it's a tree and then before you know, there's apples on the tree. Yeah, and like the thing grows um, I think that you guys have Uh, you make good music as long as you make good music Yeah, and you can put on a good live show. Yeah, we're we're a good live band. Yeah, you are that that is That is one thing we we we've worked really hard and bands like you Oh, like people in bands like bands like you you won't have it won't be hard for you guys to book Tours and to get opportunities and like it's gonna get easier and easier. You'll see because you guys are a cool band So any bill you guys are on is is is is an improved bill. I think oh, thank you so much You've made a good name for yourself like in the sense of like it's a cool band the music's good It looks good on a bill right, you know what I mean, right like people are like, oh, they know about that There's no question dude. It's a good band. Yeah, you know what I mean, you know, I mean, you know the band deaf heaven Uh, yes, yeah, yeah, so their guitar player carry is like one of my best friends and He is such a great wealth of Knowledge and you know, we spend so much time talking about this stuff and he says that Building uh being in a band is like building a monument of yourself Yeah for people to stare at yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, that's really funny, which is so funny It's true though, but it you know it is you're you're building this thing that you're like look this is cool, right? And that's my chin. It's yeah. Yeah, like how does my chin look? What do my chin look? Are the glasses right does the sweater fit well? And you know when you're Making the music right like all I can do is be like well, what do I think is cool? Like I think that's all you can do Joe strummer is cool. Yeah, and I love the specials and I love inner pool and how do I take paul banks and joe strummer and Terry from the specials and make them this thing that is mine And then you know you you erect the the statue it's like getting to choose your parents Totally. Yeah, which is you know, yeah my dream. God bless. Which is my dream. God bless our parents But but yeah, and so it's it's I mean that's just like to have you say that you know, I mean it's real I bear real. Yeah, I mean, you know the work was done You did the work to get to this place where now I wasn't there three years ago. I wasn't there two years ago. Sure. I probably Became really aware of your band the last year Great with everyone else. Sure. Right. So I'm a pretty Good template or like a good test Yeah, like I'm a I'm a I'm a consumer in that sense Totally and I see it and I go like oh that band's coming up That's when I see it coming when I see a band coming And then I'm like, oh check their music out and then I check the music out and I'm like and then I hear All the young people and they're cool like Anna from alternative press. Right, right the coolest. Yeah, she's got great music taste Yeah, she's in it. She's fucking like music first. She's a real one. She's in it You know, that's why alternative press is cool. Right, right? It was a cool magazine when I was growing up and then it went you know as magazines do they go through their their cycles and And you know since she took it over there's a culture there because The person in charge Is a music person who only fucking cares about music. Yeah, so she's living it. Yeah, that's also why artists like her Because when she shows up it's cool. She doesn't need to be perfect She doesn't need to be anything other than real. Yeah, and she's herself Totally and so like when she points at a band and goes like I'm like I heard of them and then I see Anna's into it Right. I'm like, oh, this is the shit right here. Yeah, and so like those are good signs Right, you know, and I've been around long enough to know those kinds of things But like the trajectory is like more like it's a lock as long as You guys keep showing up. It's a lock. It's locked in. It's a lock. I appreciate that But as long as you show cool to hear you say that as long as you show up. Yeah, yeah, I'll show up and you do the work Yeah, yeah, and you don't like blow your own thing up. I'm excited for you guys I think you guys are really such a great band. I am enjoying it. Good I got home from a tour yesterday and I was hanging out with my wife and I was like We played this really beautiful show. Have you ever played the great american musical in san francisco? Yes, you know that room? Yeah, gorgeous pre earthquake room. Yeah. Yeah And we we sold it out like to the gills with a hundred person guest list Right people were hanging off the friends every person in the room in the show I had all of my family in a reserved box We all had our families in their reserved seats in every person in the room new lyrics And we played this beautiful show and we played so well. Yeah, you know, and they all got to see it They all got to see the thing that's happening right now Right in its most thoughtful form Where they were like, whoa, like when did you become that? We got to treat them all so well. We had a family green room and you know that it was just this Great gorgeous moment one night and I got home yesterday and I was with my wife and I was like I just we were sitting there. I was playing video games and we're hanging out on the couch all day and you know The sun is shining and we're we're Recalling the night and say if it's just going and even the wonderful los angeles show that we played the day after and And I was just overwhelmed with joy. That's great. You know because these are the problems. I begged god for Yes, four years ago. Yeah, I was like, dude, please just like even make it so that we could play like a 300 cap room So yeah, I am trying to enjoy it gratitude is the quickest pathway To true happiness. Yeah You're you're a gratitudeless guy. You know what? I probably am in the like actual I am a gratitude guy But it's it's been a such a practice that it's now just a state of being And so like every morning and every night I always have at least one moment where I look up or I look out And I see I zoom out And it might be I'm like usually I'm in my driveway or I'm out in the back area of our house I usually like in the morning when I have coffee So I'm lucky me and my wife get to have most mornings We get to have coffee together and just like have like an hour Maybe of maybe less but best hour of the day and we are together Yep, and I have a real a silent moment of gratitude and I usually will say in my head out loud Thank you for this and this and this and maybe I'm talking to god I don't know and then at night I do the same thing. I take my dogs out every night before bedtime for them to you know Go to the bathroom and um, that's like my duty every night as I take the dogs out And I I like put them to bed. They're like our kids and um, I'm telling them I love them. I love you You're such good boys. Yeah, you guys look at you. You're gonna protect the house tonight. Like that's every night They're german shepherds. Oh, you got german shepherds. They're really sweet. They're like bears They're like cute teddy bears and every night I take them out. I'm like, all right guys Go to the bathroom they go out and then they're like Running around sniffing and whatever in the yard and they're peeing and I like look up and I like I say, thank you for like a few things. You're like, how I thank you for all of this Yeah, and I'm like or if it's like today this happened or I got this or my my kid was Blah blah blah whatever it could be like I could zoom all the way out and go Thank you for this or I could zoom in and be like, thank you today The kid or the wife or some work news or whatever sure and when I started to do it for things that Were not good news It got really interesting But now I started throwing in bad news. Yeah, what could be perceived as bad news? Which I kind of eliminated good or bad. Yeah and just said Could be good could be bad. I don't know. Yeah, we don't know. Yeah, we'll find out later I still try to practice it on tour and I have it You got it on tour. I got it on tour not me bro. I'm like I struggle with routine on tour when's the next record? We are gonna go and start writing in like a week. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you're going quick We gotta keep doing do it. We gotta keep going. Yeah, we're gonna do We're gonna I think we're in a tour, you know a few times the rest of the year Still kind of tvd what that's gonna look like we may do we may do one thing may do another thing But in the meantime, I think we basically have the whole summer off sends a couple festivals taking advantage of it So I think we're just gonna try to write the new record and get that out early 27 Yeah, you guys are on one, right? You should keep making music. We can't So you're in it. Yeah, it's fucking great. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Thanks. I you know one day at a time, right? Yeah, I guess Michael Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, it was great. Anytime. I appreciate it Thank you for watching artist friendly if you like this episode Please make sure you hit the like button You follow the channel and please share it with your friends. We appreciate the support That is why this show exists because you listen to it. Thank you guys. We'll see you next time