Blake Fuhriman on Founding Veterans Navigation Network to Support Montana Veterans

Yeah, ironically after I finished gym master school I ended up going on a Hollywood jump which if you're not from a jump in it's static wine jump and when you go Hollywood it means you don't have your combat gear you don't have any of that stuff on you so it should be the easiest jump but ended up jumping and when I right before I hit the ground I got to win and collapse part of my shoe and I basically set down which is not how you're supposed to land and it compressed my L405 S1 and just you know basically compression fracture on my back and so constipation even today you know not a whole lot they can do until they end up fusing those you know used my spine together but it's something trying to hold off on because it'll cause a little major loss of mobility and so it definitely has an impact today I mean just being in constant pain it's not fun for anybody and then Americans are capable of achieving extraordinary things when they have the freedom and opportunity to do so this is American potential. Hey everyone welcome to the American potential podcast I'm your host David from so a few months ago we went to Montana record some episodes hopefully you've all enjoyed watching them or remember them Matt our engineer it was your first time there right so what did you think about Montana you know I loved it I loved it Montana was spectacular now they do call it big sky country right and we managed to go there the one week that it was just completely cloudy for the entire time so I don't know how big it was but but it was still cool it was really cool and being a guy from Colorado myself I'm used to mountains but there was something about those they were just huge massive gorgeous mountains out there yeah it is really one of those beautiful states in the country it really is you know I've been all over the West which is phenomenal as an East Coast guy starting to explore the West was pretty eye opening but you know Montana kind of is partially in a category by its own it's just really got all of it and it is pretty spectacular and I was pretty darn glad that we got to go it was a treat to go I was really happy when Monica said you know earlier on hey we're gonna go to Montana I was like all right that's one that's been on my bucket list so if we go there again I'm just saying you know you won't have any arguments from me yeah we're just gonna plan out sunny times up anyway yep while we were in Montana we got to record our Veterans Day episode and you may remember us talking about a group of veterans called the Veterans Navigation Network and let me tell you this isn't you know just another nonprofit with a logo this whole thing grew out of real boots on the ground experience see today we're sitting down with one of the founders a fellow veteran who's walked the same tough roads as the folks he serves he watched too many of his brothers and sisters in uniform come home only to feel like they were dropped into the wild with no map somewhere struggling to find a community others needed help with benefits or health care or housing or really name it and instead of sitting back and saying somebody ought to fix this he did what veterans tend to do he took action that's how the Veterans Navigation Network was born it's built on a simple idea that sounds like common sense because it is so today you're gonna hear straight from the man who helped build it I want to welcome to the podcast Blake Furman who is the founder and executive director of Veterans Navigation Network Blake welcome thank you yeah thank you for having yeah no we're thrilled we were thrilled to talk to your colleagues and and kind of hear about just the great work y'all are doing so just kind of going back to the beginning I mean you were you're a veteran so obviously you decided to enlist in the army what what made you decide to sign up and serve and you know how did you pick that branch I mean 9 9 11 had happened when I was still pretty young but it still made a pretty incredible impact on on me just thinking like I need to do something about this and then and it had been a mentor in my life that had been special forces and you know he brought up the idea of joining the military because I didn't want to go to college and and he said you know you could go to a special forces and you know do XYZ kind of tasks you could go to the Ranger Regiment and you know do you know the other option you know and if I wanted to be part of that special operations community and the Ranger Regiment and their mission direct action really taking that to the enemy just stood out and so that was the direction I went went straight straight from basic to airborne school and then to rip at the time and now it's called grasp the Ranger Assessment Selection Program at the time it was the Ranger indoctrination program and and it was a tough tough selection process but was one of the greatest kind of ways to test my medal I yes and got to meet a ton of just incredible people and and wouldn't wouldn't change it for anything yeah I'm always interested in the folks who went in the kind of an elite direction because I mean in anything in life you kind of move in an elite direction you really meet some pretty phenomenal people but I would imagine in the armed services it's actually even another another level because people put their lives on the line and pushing themselves so hard I I guess like you know what did what did you learn from the folks you met and the leaders you came into contact with and how's that kind of impacted your life going forward so many so many things over over the years still learning from some of them even though outside the military now and just got a call from my squad leader the other day and you know still learning still listening and learning from from that guy so I'd say one of the biggest takeaways I had though was from my team leader who ultimately was killed in Afghanistan Jason Centora he really showed me what you know servant leadership was at this situation you know even when you made it into regiment you're still basically getting tested every day I mean whether you really want to be there and you know team leaders are always pushing your buttons trying to get you you I mean really prepared for combat but you can only simulate combat in so many ways so I think sometimes people would even call it hazing but I don't think that's really what the intention was it really was just to test your mouth make sure you're ready to cover your brother's back and how we were sitting around getting ready for this training event and you know some of that was going on and it was probably to that point I'm maybe a be hazing but I don't really think it was that but he stepped away from it and just went and started doing what we were really supposed to be doing getting ready for that training event and building demolition charges and stuff like that getting ready for a night event and didn't say where didn't you anybody out and do anything you just started working and I'll just never forget see in all these other team leaders like realize I should be doing what he's doing and so it just slowly de-escalated situation and change change the whole dynamic of the day to where we actually went and learned something instead just you know get smoked and so that's just that principle is just one of the many stories and lessons I learned from him is you don't have to talk loudly to make a difference you can really just be a servant and and leave others yeah that's a it's a pretty fashionable lesson so talk a little bit about what you did while you were in the army yeah a Ranger regiment really for me it was a lot of high-value targets going after high-value targets in Afghanistan so I did three deployments actually missed one because my dad had passed away and so I went to his funeral and then it was a slower one where they were out was free wintery so they didn't do a ton of of mission so they had me stay back and I ended up going to jump master school and see your school which ended upset me up for my life after the military but yeah it it was just a lot of mission I mean very high-opt tempo so I mean if you weren't deployed overseas you were training two deploy overseas that was kind of non-stop go all the time so now you you eventually were injured and that was probably a pretty life-altering thing for you maybe he told me about you know what happened and how that kind of changed the trajectory of your life yeah ironically after I finished gym master school I ended up going on a Hollywood jump which if you're not from your jumping it's static wine jump and when you go Hollywood it means you don't have your combat gear you don't have any of that stuff on you so it should be the easiest jump but ended up jumping and when I right before I hit the ground I gussed a win kind of collapsed part of my shoot and I basically set down which is not how you're supposed to land and it compressed my O405S1 just you know basically compression fracture in my back and so constantly and even today you know not not a whole lot thing do until they end up fusing those and used my spine together but it's something trying to hold off on because it'll cause a major loss of mobility and so it definitely has an impact today I mean just being in constant pain it's not fun for anybody and then you know I've got it we were talking about kids a little earlier but I got a one-year-old and a three-year-old and keeping up with them is tough enough but let alone would you go back back so yeah yeah so to really medically discharged is that what happened no no I ended up toughen it out so I went a month went to sick call for that I got so bad that I couldn't even tie my shoes my my ex-wife was helping me tie my shoes and it was pretty bad so finally went sick call and that's when I found out which fracture they put me on what you call like a dead man's profile where can do anything for about four months and so I mean I wasn't doing a ton other than go in the training events kind of watching my team at the time I was a team leader and then another deployment came up that profile went away and if I went on one more deployment and then that's when I realized like this isn't sustainable like I'm in too much pain you know we kind of were at the point of drawn down in Afghanistan this was in 2013 and so it just said the mission the kind of change it wasn't very it was almost like police action at the time and so I just wasn't something that's what they want to do so between being in pain all the time actually came home from that deployment and to an empty house I mentioned ex-wife that's why because when I got home from that deployment you know it's like one o'clock in the morning I call no answer and I just for your okay she's sleeping doesn't know and take a cab out to my house which was about an hour off post and houses empty dog abandoned and just not a great way to come home from Afghanistan and so just that combination of all that stuff led me to deciding it was time to get out in hindsight what I've done is probably re-enlisted and then worked on a med board but I wasn't thinking about that I was just thinking about the pain I was in both physically and then emotionally with with her and so and you know the loss of 19 liter we lost 23 other you know Rangers and attachments over the course of those four years that I was in and yeah it was just time time for me to get out so in a goodie now and then I run around I don't know what it is right roughly terribly I don't know but that fractured back that I had on the service with the MRI dead man's profile all that stuff ended up getting denied by the VA saying it was not service connected and so it how's that possible I mean honestly we've done a lot of shows on the VA and some things that are just unbelievable that they tell veterans but that to me I can't even believe that like how in the world's that the case yeah yeah I think for me it was you know are you not at the time I think regimens got a lot better but I mean it was kind of you're getting out you know we're done with the kind of thing you kind of gave up or quit on us so there wasn't a ton of of support then but now I think it's much better they've a Ranger for life program they're really doing a lot better of support in their their Rangers when they get out and I think that's trickling down to the rest of army too but you know I won I never went to a sit call except for that issue so that's probably the one thing that should have been really easy for me this service connect and but for what a reason they denied the first one I appealed it they denied it and so then I waited you know three years and it was other veterans who kind of told me like you need to get a veteran service officer who actually advocate for you and help you through this process so you're not just doing it on your own and so I did that I ended up going to a doctor on my own dime to you know say yes this fractured spine is because of his military service and so it was it was a challenge I mean yeah three years of kind of trying on again often then because I was so frustrated yeah no kidding I mean man I'm so sorry I went through that that any veteran goes to that that's it's just as non-combatantical and I so yeah so you're getting back to civilian life and I imagine you know obviously the medical issues you know getting divorced all kinds of things transition back to civilian life is probably less than ideal so what I mean what was it like trying to make that transition yeah for me I I just didn't know necessarily what I want to do I thought I did I started a shooting school right out the gate and put all my savings into it actually set up my first class and had 30 people sign up but I didn't really know anything about business and you know coming from the regiment where like somebody said they're gonna do something they did it to the civilian world where that's not always the case I had 30 people sign up I didn't make anybody prepay and one person showed up for the class and so it basically kind of banged wrapped in me right out the gate because I put all my savings into that and that one person got one heck of a shooting course that day but yeah I was so frustrated so I ended up on an oil filled spray and weeds so they like killed the weeds so that the oil filled or the oil wells don't catch them on fire and burn down the whole oil filled you know yeah and so I was in North Montana spraying those and just wondering you know not just to mean that professional like it's something that needs done so we can drive our cars and all that stuff but I just was wondering how did I go from the radio regiment with so much purpose in my life to spraying weeds on oil filled where I didn't find that purpose and I mean I was taking care of my family but that wasn't enough you know the purpose from me so I just yeah it was a struggle that transition out was a struggle I mean I had a big drinking problem at the time I you know was not dealing with so it's three years for me to get the fractured back connected it was seven years before I even thought about going to a counselor about you know seeing you know my team litter being killed be it all those guys get killed not to mention the other stuff that we're doing that I mean I think we were in the right for doing but it was yeah it still makes an impact when you shoot somebody or something like that so yeah seven years before I went to a counselor and then you know another or like three years before I ended up actually getting that service connected this first PTSD not a lot stuff so it's a journey I mean I think you know I mentioned earlier joining the seer community and doing that training and one of the things that we got to do was interview some prisoners of war from like Vietnam era and so you'd have these guys that you know I've been in those I mean terrible situation the whole not on whitehilton things like that just like the most terrible living conditions getting treated terribly and they come back and go back to work and you know for the most part we pray fine until they retired once they retired you start having PTSD symptomology papa and I think it's really you have that time that time to think about those things about those experiences and you'd have nightmares popping up for those guys even though it happened you know years and years and years you know 30 years before they were interviewed and so all that to say is I think the transition out of the military is the lifelong endeavor it's not like you yeah get it suddenly you're all going home in the civilian sector do you think that it was that they were busy and kind of were pushing it aside and the same with current but you know folks like yourself or do you think it was like more about having purpose and that when you retired maybe that you know professional purpose wasn't there or something else and that allowed the PTSD to kind of move in and occupy more space or what do you think kind of was the causation I think it's a combination of those two things exactly I'd say that's probably one of the biggest struggles we see with veterans navigation network is veterans not finding that purpose outside the military so purpose income lottery those of the two things like when you get out of the military suddenly you just went from fighting for the freedom of you know Americans across the globe to now what and then those people that you had just you know spent a year with an attempt together or I mean you definitely spend way more time with them than you do you're on family during the time you're in the service yeah and you go from that I mean they're truly your family at that point to you can't even get on the base you know without getting a new ID or something like that I mean it's just or getting an escort you know depending on the base and so you just you're almost like kicked out of your home and and your family I mean you can still call on text but they're getting ready for the next deployment or whatever I'm there you know getting ready for battle or whatever so it's not like you can have that same kind of relationship once you get out so those are the two biggest things that we see people struggle with and I think not having those definitely ways to those episodes of PTSD not just being there I think like even when I got out and was busy like doing the oil fields I was working a ton you know 80 plus hours 120 hour weeks but they I mean I still had you know maybe some of the anxiety thankfully I was out in the middle of a field all by myself so not as much but if I went to like Costco or Walmart or something like that man somebody's walking in front of me going slow I mean it was all I could do not just start screaming at them because it made me so mad like don't you have a purpose in your life like why are you checking your phone the middle aisle like there's a people here trying them to the needs it would in rage be well beyond reason and so I mean now I've got some tools to help deal with that and cope and you know yeah move I know that at the time I didn't so well you know I want to get into what the veterans navigation network does for veterans but before we do that I mean how did how did veterans help you get what you needed yeah so it was you know I got back and within six months of being an Afghanistan I was out and probably at my first VA appointment and I mean we work really closely with the VA so I don't mean to degrade or anything to the VA but this just my personal experiences you know I went into my appointment never met this person I've got you know KIA bracelets I'm a few to see those in the video but no memorializing my team later another team leader that were killed and I think you know the VA being the ones that treat veterans all day every day you know should probably have a little cultural comments and see to recognize what those are and then you know I'm at my first appointment ever met this person I mean one of the first questions is a suicide screener like are you thinking about killing yourself today you know and it's at the time I was just like well even if I was I'm probably not gonna tell you you know and I didn't say that but that's what came across my mind and at the time you know I you know I was not doing very well so I would say I was probably at that level and so yeah it ended up being other veterans who said hey me like you're not doing all right you need to deal with some of the stuff you should go to this council or here's who I use and you know you're having so many issues with getting your VA stuff you know your disability or things like that like here's the VSO that helped me you know and it was those personal connections and sometimes even introductions to the person that could help me and I just thought like this should be a program like this should be what's out there not just the VA because the VA can't be everything to everybody but having those veterans kind of serve as an intro was very helpful to me and so I ended up doing some temporary security to place and they allow people to come walk in the mornings and mall and you know I was doing this temporary security while I waited to do some other contract work that was much more where I wanted to be and I commented on this guy's hat he had a metabac hat and I just made a comment like oh thanks for serving and turns out it wasn't actually a military metabac hat but he had served during Vietnam era and we became good friends after that and ended up talking about this transition on military and so 50 years before we'd been trans-assigned military Vietnam era and we were talking about some of the challenges I had and he was like I had those same challenges 50 years ago and we just kind of thought boy we got to do something about this so we ended up he became a founding board member and we started being in and it really is all based off of that veteran up in the veteran veteran veteran veteran veteran that's awesome and now you're now you're doing the same on a much larger degree so what services is a veteran's navigation that we provide so we definitely try not to duplicate services already out there and so we really try to do that connection and we call it resource navigation that's probably our bread and butter as far as the main thing that we do is just connect in veterans to a person out there that can actually help them and not just you know here's a business card but let me introduce you to the person that can actually help you with what's going on right now whether that's healthcare enrollment starting your own business you know maybe if I want a hard time speak as life happens and you need a little bit of financial assistance like whatever whatever that looks like and it's some of it's like man this person's at the worst point in their life ever and they just need that hand helping hand up or it's the place where somebody's like trying to grow their already established business and they're doing really well and so I mean it's everything in that spectrum and so that's that's probably our primary our primary focus but we also have a pure mentor program so it's other vets who've gotten out found success and then want to share that with their fellow vets and so they kind of get assigned to help set goals with them and really just you know set goals and then identify the barriers to achieve those goals and then you know problems of how are we going to eliminate some of those barriers and that's been one of our more effective I mean because you're not just handling somebody a resource you're handing them the resources tools they need but then submit a walk alongside with them kind of keep them accountable as they achieve those things so it's been really impactful for those who participated sure well it seems like a common thread here is that it's very personal and individualized it seems like there's it's very relational and I kind of could see how that that would be such an impactful and important part of of this offering you know that the people who give services but I mean you got the VA lots of other large organizations but what you guys are doing is having real veterans come alongside and mentor give specific advice and understand what their their needs are and really giving them that personalized service I imagine your outcomes are far better than most peoples yes not just somebody saying go to the VA it's somebody who's used the VA you know realize what it's good at maybe what it's not good at and can help them kind of you know not just you know go to the place but here's how you message your provider here's how you fill your prescription like here's how you do all this stuff and teach them how to do it you know not just because they're doing it also you know it's definitely that pure aspect and our mentors and some of our most of our staff are not we've got actually got a couple including the Ranquit previously been on your guys's show that are certified behavioral health peer support specialists but the majority of our staff are not and none of our volunteer mentors are either and so it's just really that's that pure aspect you don't have to be certified to relate to somebody with your experiences um you know one thing we talked about earlier was the need for people to have purpose in camaraderie returning veterans to have purpose in camaraderie because it's such a change from you know it was such a rich environment for that when you're in the military and then there's a hole there do you find that the folks who are doing the mentoring and the folks who are working to help other veterans that this provides some of that fulfillment for sure um you know one of the other things that we do is a lot of advocacy for veterans and I mean Montana's 10% of our population is made up of veterans really and when you look at people who live in their household and now you're talking you know 25 to 30% of the state are in a veteran household and so veterans should have a voice here in Montana and yet we're number one for veterans who decide we don't have a ton of um you know support for veterans here in Montana and um you know there's a lot of nonprofits doing really good things but as far as the state kind of stepping up I mean we're one of only four states in the country that tax military retirement pay um it's yeah I mean it's crazy um yeah we're a really red state which is kind of you know I'm conservative and um it's I know an organization that maybe should uh take a look and tackle that yeah yeah yeah well it's it's kind of affluent to me that we uh still do that and and I think we're missing out as a state you know you've got people who are are retired generals retired you know um certain majors that have started multi-million dollar companies and yet they're choosing to go live in these other states like Florida Wyoming you know these places that aren't taxing they still have but very similar values to Montana but they're not taxed on our time so they're choosing to go to those places instead so we're I think we're you know missing out on a few thousand dollars of military retirement or we're gaining that but we're missing out on these million dollar companies kind of to to Montana so but as far as your actual question fighting that purpose I mean the advocacy piece of you know giving veterans a voice is definitely gives a lot of purpose but also fight and form when their voice isn't heard so I mean they're surviving spouses so we're working with uh whose you know veteran possibly has succumbed to PTSD and suicide um you know and we're talking young widows with small kids and it's heartbreak and so it is very relational relational as you said earlier the work that we do um but because of that I think it makes us really strong advocates and does I mean we've got that person sitting across from you you're gonna do everything you can to fight for them and so there there is a lot of purpose in that yeah are there any stories of veterans that you guys have worked with that come to mind that uh you you really are proud of the work that you all have done or have been really gratified by the results that you've seen in their lives yeah I think um you know Mike our program manager he's worked with us arriving spouse who you know unfortunately too late to catch the veteran we didn't veteran didn't hear about us we were unable to connect with them but you know picking up the pieces you know they wrote a letter after you know he helped them get survivors benefits and actually provided with some resources to help their young young daughter uh kind of cope with what was going on and and you know we got a letter from her just basically saying how they just don't know where they'd be if if my cat and uh have been a part of their uh life and to their life and helped them not just survive financially but actually survive you know emotionally after after that death um you know that's one spectra one end to the spectrum we obviously much rather catch before we get to that point and so uh one veteran I've worked with was uh served in the 80s early 80s like 70s and had actually protected our nuclear selves um yeah security on those nuclear sites had been told over and over again that he had actually not served long enough to be eligible for VA benefits and had kind of come on some hard times financially uh but was still just over that threshold for Medicaid involvement and so was kind of caught with not having insurance and eating it with our money and the hernia uh ends up being so big it was the size of a volleyball hanging out of this stuff big guy big guy but still I mean just crazy how huge that hernia was and nobody would operate on because they didn't have insurance they said it wasn't life threatening uh meanwhile I mean the guy can't be dragged down the road without this thing rubbing on his steering well and just I mean just causing all kinds of pain and uh we ended up talking to the VA and be like are you sure this guy's not eligible like from what we're seeing he was and there had been a law change during the time that it served where it went from 90 days of consecutive service to two years and since he had served in the 90 days he actually only needed 90 days and he had that um he had served just shy of two years and so he'd been denied you know all those times uh for health care and so you know 40 years later we got him in the old NBA he got his surgery for his hernia not to mention some other issues that were actually service connected um taking care of and so even the disability claim you know I hadn't been filed for 40 years and so I mean that that was pretty impactful for sure for his I'm just life changing for him well hey as we wrap up um how beneficial do you think it would have been to you as a veteran coming out who struggled if you had the veteran's navigation network as a resource for you I mean I think life life happens like it happens for a reason a lot of times I mean we definitely have that free will and can can make those changes but I love where I'm at in life um but I can't imagine where it would be if if something like the end and that existed you know I would been taking care right away I mean yeah I think it I think it's incredibly valuable otherwise I wouldn't do it you know if I didn't feel that we were serving purpose my long-term goal is for being and not going to need to exist I mean I want to run us out of business because I want to do the advocacy work so that veterans are taking care of the way we promise to take care of them and being and goes up this that's that's my long-term goal probably not what you've heard many CEOs or executive directors say but that's my God that's great goal well but like I really appreciate you sharing you know your life story and then like your life's work with us um I really admire not only your service and the sacrifice you made but what you're doing going forward here I mean you're just making a difference in a lot of people's lives people that that art nation really needs it was a debt to and needs to care about um and so I really appreciate the work that you're doing with VNN and uh really helping out helping out your fellow veterans and making the world a better place appreciate that definitely appreciate you giving us a voice yeah yeah no I I love that came on I appreciate a lot so thanks so much if folks if you like this episode and like to stay connected with the podcast be sure to like and subscribe to our channel as well as following us on Facebook Instagram and YouTube I was you remember let me and freedom are easily taken for free don't take for granted go out there and defend freedom and liberty thanks for joining us and we'll see you on the next episode thank you for listening to American Potential you may 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