680. Shift 10 — Merge to Multiply: Scaling Impact Through Collaboration - Ananya Poddar

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Non profits don't always know what possibilities exist. Collaboration is often not on leaders minds and understandably, you know, they've, they've got enough on their minds.

1:06

Welcome back friends to the 12 shift series. Today we're going to be exploring the shift merge to multiply. And I know you've heard this before. We first had this conversation when we were talking about the Girl Rising and she's the first merger. And I want to give a shout out to Tammy Tibbets over at she's the first because she introduced us to our guest today. And we have had some really powerful conversations lately about these mergers, what it takes to do them well, what they can unlock and why more leaders are exploring consolidation as a way to protect mission and scale impact. So we're hearing a growing pull toward this creative partnership model that we're going to talk about a little bit today, which is about shared infrastructure, strategic alliances, collaborative ventures, and just all the ways that orgs can do more together than they ever possibly could do alone. But there's a side of this story that doesn't get nearly enough airtime and it's the funding side, like how do you find funding to actually go through something as big as a merger? So today we're flipping the lens and digging into what it actually looks like to resource collaboration and what becomes possible when funders get stuck serious about investing in it. So I feel like that was a really long lead up to me introducing our incredible guest today. Our guest is Ananya Poter. She is a senior associate at Sea Change Capital Partners where she supports lending, grant making and advisory work to accelerate social impact. She works really closely with the C Change Lodestar Fund for Nonprofit Collaboration. This is a fund created specifically to help nonprofits scale their impact through partnerships, mergers, and deep collaboration. They are a nonprofit profit. We are going to get in this today with an expert. Ananya, welcome to the show. We are so glad you're here.

1:16

Thanks so much, Becky. I'm excited to be here.

3:07

Well, we want to get started by, like, getting to know you and your work. So tell us what led you into working specifically with capital funding?

3:09

Yeah, sure. So I've been at Sea Change for about two and a half years now, but kind of have had this love affair with the nonprofit sector for a little bit longer. Have always been drawn to impactful work, which can take many shapes. But I think particularly organizations that are slightly removed from kind of the direct service, that actually do the work in the communities, but still have the ability to support the ones going out there and doing that work. That's always been a really interesting space of where intermediaries operate, where kind of these capacity builders exist. So work at another capacity building organization for a couple of years that does kind of nonprofit consulting and executive management services for nonprofits in New York City, and then decided to do a little bit of academics or did my master's specifically in nonprofit management. Because by then I kind of knew that, you know, this is the space I want to build, build my career in. And then through that, found sea change in 2023. And, you know, loved the work and have loved it more since. And, yeah, I mean, just being able to work with. With so many kinds of nonprofits, so many amazing leaders every day, I think. I think you learn so much and you have the ability to kind of support change in a way that's not always available to organizations. Something that's not programmatic, but something kind of deeper, structural. Helping organizations when they're at specific points in time through capital, I think is a valuable resource.

3:19

Yeah, I love this work because it is transformational, the way that y' all show up as partners and it's doing this work that maybe doesn't get the headlines, but, boy, it is infrastructure for growth and sustainability. And so that's why we were so excited about this conversation today. Becky, you just teased this about the SeaChange Lodestar Fund for Nonprofit Collaboration. Ananya, I would love for you to just kind of unpack that for us. I mean, it was designed to support collaboration for nonprofits, but what gap was it really identified to fill? And what's some of the impact that y' all have seen through that fund so far.

4:47

Yeah. So to give you a little bit of background on this particular fund, it's one of five different funds we administered, SeaChange, that are all designed specifically to support nonprofits with collaboration efforts. The SeaChange Lodestar Fund is, you know, as the name suggests, a joint partnership between us, SeaChange and the Lodestar foundation, which is a foundation based in Arizona, and one that's really been a pioneer in this space of supporting nonprofit collaboration. They've been doing this work since inception in 1999. They continue to do this work today, and we're really lucky to have them as a partner in this fund. I think it's rare to see a funder really stay the course the way the Lodestar foundation has for over 25 years to stay faithful to that funding priority. That is nonprofit collaboration. When we've lived through so many worlds, whether it's been Covid, Black Lives Matter, the current administration, they're a wonderful example because they have seen the value of collaboration despite changing circumstances, that clearly it is a need that nonprofits have, no matter what the circumstances around us are. So they've been immensely valuable as a partner, and we're really, really lucky to have them. But to give you kind of a more concrete sense of what the work of the fund really is, you know, when you say nonprofit collaboration, that could mean so many different things. People often think it's mergers, because that's kind of the word that's thrown around the most. But it doesn't have to be a full scale merger. Nonprofits can collaborate in a whole host of ways, depending on what makes sense for them. It could be, you know, on one end you have a full merger where the two entities come together operationally, programmatically, leadership, all of that combines. But you could even have something where you just transfer one program or you transfer particular assets because you think, you know, they'd be better stewarded at an. At a partner organization. It could be sharing back office arrangements or sharing staffing in a way that, you know, leads to kind of operational benefits. So. So collaboration can take a whole host of forms and different formats, depending on what makes sense. And within that, where we really come in as a funder is. Is kind of threefold. What we always offer to organizations looking to, you know, explore collaboration is one. We always like to make it known that we offer a safe space for discussion. We are somewhere where organizations can come. We'll be a thought partner. It's a judgment free kind of expectation, free space where we can be a sounding board, you know, help you talk through some of these things or just, just listen because you, you know, you might not be in a position where you have anywhere else to go. Secondly, we offer referrals wherever appropriate. You know, it could be helpful to just know what resources exist out there, you know, who might be a good person to talk to, who's been through a similar process, a leader, and in the same space, someone like Katami, who's done this before. So to make those connections if it makes sense for an organization. And then thirdly, which is the big catch is, you know, there's funding available for this. So specifically when nonprofits, two or more nonprofits are looking to either plan some sort of collaboration or implement that collaboration in the real world, we can help defray the costs that come with getting those things done. You know, all that to say it's a unique space. So, John, you asked about the gap, and I think one which is kind of sort of obvious. Most foundations, most private foundations, at least the way they organize their funding is inter sector areas. You have funders that are interested in the arts or like specifically human services. You will rarely find a funder that names collaboration as a funding priority and one on top of that that spans sectors, spans organizational sizes, span state boundaries. So we have a wide catchment area and the types of organizations we can work with. But then within that we're focused specifically on collaboration. And then secondly, I think the gap, which is sometimes a little bit harder to grasp, but I think is immensely valuable to nonprofits, is kind of the model of the fund. So the way the funders kind of structured this is that they took the funds and they housed it at a nonprofit, which is a sea change. And I think that is just genius for so many reasons because they, you know, they see and believe in the value that someone who is an impartial, confidential third party, the kind of services they can provide and the safe space they can provide when nonprofits can feel comfortable to come and talk to them, I think is just so intelligent because very often when, when nonprofits are thinking about collaboration, it's, it's, you know, it's. They're not seeking general operating support, they're not seeking programmatic funding. Collaboration comes at, you know, moments of change. It comes at inflection points for these organizations, which, which sort of means that they have to be vulnerable and expose themselves. So they might not be ready to go to their typical funders, to their major donors and talk about what's on their mind. So to have a resource that is a nonprofit, that is truly, truly neutral, I think can really help with thought partnership, because leaders need that in times of change.

5:20

This is exactly what I want people to think about when they think of true partnership. And I want to commend Sea Change. I want to commend you. We've had a couple of these examples on the podcast before where a funder doesn't come in and just give money like that, that is like a funding relationship. That is a financial relationship. But what you're talking about is that you're going to wrap around your nonprofits with everything you've got. We've seen this with Amy Freitag and the New York City Community Trust. We saw this with the 776 Foundation. We saw this with Mav Favorite Capital and Rena Greifenger. And when funders wrap around you, they're not just funders, they become true partners. And this is what feels so good about Merge to Multiply. So we've had such a theme this season, Ananya, around our podcast around trust and what it takes to build trust, because we believe trust is the work. Now I'm curious, from your vantage point, what advice would you give leaders for having these kinds of conversations in a way that builds trust and momentum?

10:50

Yeah. So I think trust is kind of twofold here. There's trust with your funders, but also there's trust with the organizations you're looking to partner with. And I think building momentum along sort of both of those lines is important. I would say one, and it's, you know, it might seem obvious, but I think it's still always worth calling out, is just, just to have open and upfront communication, especially with, with your partner organizations. You know, call out what you're looking for in the process. Every leader is going to anticipate having fears as they work through collaboration. So, so just be open about those because, because ultimately, partnerships are trust based based exercises. So just, you know, keep those lines of communication open. But then also secondly, I think think about, you know, as you're communicating with, with so many stakeholders, as most nonprofits are, you have your funders, you have your board, you have staff, you have the actual community you serve, you have vendors, you have the government. I mean, there's, there's so many different groups to think about. So I think it's, it's, it's important to think about who you want to bring along on the journey and at what point. Collaboration is often a long Drawn out process. So you might not want to have everyone along at every step of the way. You know, you might not have your entire staff involved when you're having early conversations with a, with a nonprofit partner, but you likely want to engage your board, or at least some subsection of your board to kind of have that support and engagement at the governance level. And the, you know, the same goes with, let's say, your community. Very often when we're working with, with nonprofits looking at collaboration, they don't even know if, if the collaboration is going to materialize. You know, there is, there might not even be something there. So you might not want to go out to your community yet and announce that this is what we're looking at, because that could cause confusion, it could cause fear, it could cause disruption. And I think you can kind of apply that same, that same analysis with funders. Depending on kind of where you are in the process, you might want to think about which funders you want to bring along. Is it too early to talk to anyone at all? Usually what we tell the nonprofits we work with and what our suggestion usually is that once you're kind of confident that there is something there, you feel like a partnership, some sort of formal collaboration is going to materialize. It might be a good idea to then go out to your funders before a public announcement is made because, you know, they like to be kept in the loop and ultimately they invested in your success. So bring them along on the ride when it feels like it's the right time and frame it as a way, you know, like this is an initiative we're trying to undertake to grow our impact, to grow our infrastructure ultimately in better service of our communities. And this is why we need your dollars. And then thirdly, I think, you know, the way trust is kind of important and where we come in as a grant maker is choose technical assistance that you can trust, choose people who you can have candid conversations with. Nonprofit work is extremely emotional work. I think we all know that. Everyone comes with different feelings. And when you're doing something as vulnerable as collaboration, those emotions can take over. For leaders that are already wearing so many hats. You know, you're trying to run an organization, you're trying to fundraise, and on top of that, to think about something as momentous as potentially merging or, you know, changing the entire structure of your organization to do that in a way that's neutral, when you can't help but be emotional about the work because you care about the organization is really, really difficult. And it's almost an impossible task to ask of anyone. Right. So to bring in third party support, some sort of facilitator, some sort of project manager who can work with a little bit of distance, who can help you arrive at, you know, measured objective outcomes can be really, really valuable. And that's where we come in because we fund specifically technical assistance. Any third party support leaders and boards want to bring in to help with the collaboration because they themselves just have too much going on. That's what our grants are for. Because we've really seen the value of that kind of involvement that third party that, you know, can project manage, can provide.

12:04

Ananya, I mean, we're so happy to know you today.

16:31

I'm so glad.

16:34

And I don't know if you may not know this part of our story, but we are for good. Just came through our own merger with Give Butter this past summer. And the things that you're saying are so deeply resonant. So I think for anyone listening, that's like on the outside you're speaking with such truth and like the uncertainty of the process of needing and some objectivity to stay aligned to the bigger things, to figure out the communication. Like, you need somebody to hold your hand through this. And I just love that y'. All, you started with saying we're creating a safe place for someone to explore that because that is the bedrock. Trust is the bedrock of these kind of conversations. So just here at a plus one and just a super fan of what y' all are doing, literally, I would love to hear from you what's in an organization or a case study that stands out of that's come through. You know, that collaboration really was possible or maybe it grew to scale or sustainability at a different capacity because of this work.

16:35

Yeah. You can't help but talk about she's the first in Girl Rising for so many reasons. That's. That's how we were connected. Yeah. And we're all a little bit obsessed because, I mean, not only do the organizations do do incredible work, but also kind of the way the collaboration came about, what it's been able to achieve is such a wonderful example. So for people that, that might not be as familiar. She's the first in Girl Rising are two organizations that work to support girls in marginalized communities across the world. They work in India and Kenya, other parts of Asia, other parts of Africa. And the leaders of both organizations have kind of known each other. There's been some staffing overlap. They've advocated jointly previously on different efforts. And I think the core mission of both organizations, they recognize pretty quickly that there was so much alignment there that they're invested in the same kind of work to support girls in these communities across the world. They do similar programming. So conversations kind of started arising about what could we possibly do together that's in service of our missions that can better serve our communities, that can grow our impact, that can scale it and ultimately benefit the lives of the people we're trying to serve. So they kind of engaged in a merger process, brought in a lot of different forms of third party support around different areas of the merger, and a couple of months ago announced publicly that this is something they're rolling out. I think legally they're just dotting the I's and, and crossing their T's to get it done. But it's, it's such a good example of something that's provided real impact in the world that programs have grown. I think they're projected to impact thousands more girls together than they could independently. But also. And you know, what's kind of the slightly less attractive part of this work is that it's, it saved them money. You know, you, you have to do one audit instead of two, which lowers your costs. You have, you know, lowers the staff time spent on some of these administrative things. There's all kinds of administrative and cost saving efficiencies that have come with combining their organizations and sharing some of the systems around HR and finance and all of those things that, that's kind of hard to see from the outside. And you know, Tammy, who's one of the leaders and who's, who's been really important shepherding the process, Tammy and Christina both, I think, have led this project with like such a forward looking lens. They've grounded it in long term thinking and it's a really good example of where collaboration can come about. Even when there isn't a pressing need. There doesn't have to be an event that's taken place to get you to a point where you feel like collaboration is necessary. You know, they've done a fantastic job of just thinking ahead, centering the community, centering the missions, and realizing that, you know, coming together is ultimately what's going to be best for these girls. And that's what they've done. And it's been immensely well received by the funding community, by the communities they've served. And you know, it's early days for the merger, but it's, I mean, we have no doubt that it's going to be incredibly, incredibly successful.

17:35

I'll just Say as someone who was on the other end of it because I was a monthly donor to. She's the first and still am very proudly so. The communication, the joy, the clarity and the enthusiasm was so felt on my end as they were rolling it out. And it is just a beautiful example of how to merge, to multiply.

20:57

You know, she's the first in Girl Rising is, is a great example and it's, it's one where there's been a full merger. But I think it's worth noting also that different organizations will come to the collaboration table with different motivations. Nonprofits lead with mission, and that will always be true. I think any partner you collaborate with, the kind of first thing you look for is do our missions align? Do we share the same assumptions around the world? Because if that doesn't exist, I don't think a partnership can be successful. But I think beyond that, you might, you know, you might be looking for a partnership for other reasons. You might, you might be wanting to solve for leadership succession, to improve your governance structure. You might have a program that's lost a really important funding source, but you know that that program is important to your community, so you want to find a new home for it. It could be economies of scale. We could do so much more if we collectively paid for insurance rather than did it ourselves because we're too small and it's too expensive. And we have so many stories of different organizations in different parts of the country that have, that have been motivated to do collaboration for a whole bunch of reasons. So, you know, like another just kind of quick example that I think really illustrates the cost savings piece is we supported two human service organizations in Detroit a few years ago that, you know, ended up merging. And what happened was one of them saved about, I think close to $500,000 a year just because they were able to transfer their records onto the, the other, the partner organization's electronic medical record system. $500,000 a year on a under 5 million dollar budget is, you know, it's 10%. That's huge savings and that's money that you could then use for your programs or for whatever else. So there's so many different ways that these things can play out. Another case study that I think is a good example, but they chose a really clever format, not a full merger. This was, I think in 21 or 22, we worked with two organizations in Philadelphia, Uplift Solutions and Share Food program. Uplift Solutions, you know, they started out doing workforce development in areas that were designated as food deserts and had this one program that was called the Philly Food Rescue. And it started to kind of feel like two different organizations. One that was doing food service work, one that was doing workforce development and re entry work. And it just didn't feel like the program fit with what the core mission of the organization had become. So they sought out to find a partner and someplace where this program could be a better fit, could be, could have better alignment with the mission. And they landed up with a partner organization called Share Food Program that had been looking to expand into Food Rescue and eventually ended up transferring the program. And I think, you know, an example like that is worth mentioning because they specifically chose the format of transferring a program versus a full merger because it got them to the place they needed. It was a faster, simpler process than doing a full on merger. They didn't have to absorb liabilities from one to the other. And you know, ultimately Share Food Program got to focus on their mission of providing food security uplift solutions, got to deepen their impact in what became their core mission area, which was workforce development and re entry. And the resource stayed within the community. So I mean, it's not a win win, but it's a win, win, win situation and everyone's better served. So I think there's, there's just so many different ways these things can go about. You know, nonprofits do it for, for several different reasons, but it's always interesting to see, you know, what, what comes of it on the other end.

21:23

I think it's just refreshing to hear all these amazing examples and be like, for so many nonprofits, this is not on their radar, you know, and I say that with love because we were in the nonprofit space for 15 years and I don't remember this conversation coming.

25:10

Up of like when I heard about it.

25:25

It's great.

25:27

Yeah.

25:28

And I just think there is a lot of stress and pressure and hopelessness that some feel in the sector. And we're not looking at all the options and asking bigger questions about how we can do these things. And so I love that you walk through those big questions with people and it's just such an inspiring convo today, you know, we end all of our conversations with a one good thing. Typically it's like a piece of advice that you may lift with the shifts. Were almost asking for like some homework from you, like what is some homework you may give a nonprofit leader that could lead them into really grappling with these ideas and concepts that we talked about today.

25:29

Yeah, I think that's, I mean, that's A wonderful idea. And I think, John, you, you already mentioned it. You know, nonprofits don't always know what possibilities exist. Collaboration is often not on leaders minds and understandably, you know, they, they've got enough on their minds. So I think it's important to kind of just start socializing this, this idea, throw it around in your boardroom, build it into your risk management practices. Just speak to a partner organization. Chances are you already know who your ideal partner might be. It's probably someone where you've shared staff previously. You've probably already worked together on some initiative. You likely exist in the same community. So so much of the groundwork is there. You kind of just have to go out and see it. And you know, she's the first in Girl Rising is a terrific example where there isn't a need. But because this idea had been socialized, you know, there was board support because they realized what the value of collaboration could be and then they went ahead and you know, did the thing and the rest is history. So I think just making yourself familiar with what possibilities exist, who those might exist with because you never know when one of those things might, might become relevant. I mean we've seen in unfortunate circumstances, but today like the world can literally change overnight. You don't know what your non profit is going to look like the next day. So to just build the capacity and kind of institutional knowledge and start, you know, working that muscle so you have that tool, even if it's right at the back of your toolkit because one day you might just need, you might just need it. So I would just say, you know, think about collaboration. You don't have to have a full plan, but just start speaking the words out loud, socialize it with your board because you are going to need board support to do this and just, just build that awareness.

26:08

I think you have beautifully and succinctly dispelled the myth that merging is a weakness or a failure. I think you have proven the opposite in this conversation, that it is a way to strengthen the organization, a way to diversify and play what is our core value? Number two, which is you're playing the long game with your nonprofit. You are preparing for today, you are preparing for tomorrow and you are preparing for a future state that we cannot even anticipate right now. So Ananya, like people are going to want to connect with you. They're going to want to connect with C Change. Tell us where you hang out online and all the ways to connect to your organization.

28:01

Yeah, absolutely. We, our door is always, always open. We will pick up the phone for anyone. Our website See Change Capital Partners has a ton of information. Feel free to reach out to me on my email. That's a P O D D a r@cchangecap.org we even have a general email infochangecap.org all this information's on our website. We have resources outside of the SeaChange Lodestar Fund that are also focused on collaboration. We have non collaboration related resources and you know we're a nonprofit that exists to help other nonprofits so so don't be strangers. Just reach out for anything we can do.

28:42

Ananya it is so lovely to meet you. You keep doing incredible work for our sector and stay in the for purpose work because we need you.

29:26

Thank you both so much and thank you Julie as well. It was so wonderful to meet you. I can't wait to keep listening to all the good content you'll put out there.

29:36

Oh thank you my friend. Keep going.

29:45