Rob's Traitors UK S4 Review

Everybody, what's going on Rob Sustinino? Back and I'm so excited to talk to the traders, UK crew here on RHAP, the greatest duo in the traders outside of Rachel and Steven. Let's talk, of course, back here with the Duke of Deception. Please, Ambequil, P.R.O. Always good and always excited to talk more traders, especially traders, UK. I'm very excited to hear what you think, Rob. We're going to have fun today. Yes. Okay. I mean, we are talking in case you've turned this on. It's like, all right, let's hear about the Black Bank. No, we're talking about traders, UK. What is a trader's UK? Yes. It just completed its fourth season, which kind of runs parallel to the US trader's seasons. A lot of overlap here. So if you are just interested in checking out a little bit of traders, UK, that's what we're talking about here today. Full spoilers ahead for traders, UK season four. And of course, we are honored to be here with a woman who I've listened to on many, many podcasts of talk to a little bit, but I've never gotten to podcasts with, of course, from Australian traders season two, Annabelle. Annabelle, how are you? I am absolutely thrilled. Thank you for having me. The season that is still causing controversy and upset and reddit threads to this day. You know, I just saw a YouTube video that came up of like how this narcissist ruined the traders. Yep. It's still making people mad. And you know what, that's why I say you can't say this is the worst season ever because you, like, it lives rent free. You're still making YouTube videos about it, gotten those how many years later. Yeah. People say your season is the worst season ever. Yeah. Traitors, you pay season four, certainly not. No, no, no, no, no. Okay. You can't season four. An incredible season. Yeah. And it's grown on me, actually, as I've had time to kind of marinate on it over the last week. Yes. And Pooja and Annabelle have just gotten done recapping all four weeks of the traders, UK season four, which of course you could hear in the We Know Traders podcast feed. Also Annabelle does quite a bit of podcasting about many, many seasons of the traders as well over on her podcast, babes on the brink. Thank you. We were actually SEO rebranding to babes in the concave turns out having a podcast name that has literally nothing to do with the traders wasn't. Yes. Okay. Concave, pretty hot SEO term. A lot of people searching for concave. You've probably get a lot of people talking about the movie. I can't go anywhere for a while. I'll take anyone. Yes. Okay. So I have finished watching, bingeing traders, UK season four. Now I have not paid attention to it at the level that you certainly not watching each episode twice like Annabelle has. I've kind of watched each episode 0.75 times where I am exercising and also watching the traders at the same time. So I definitely got all of the big picture things. But if you asked me to break down some of the votes splits, I am not going to have that information. Absolutely not. And even watching it twice, I have to issue an apology as soon as I saw the tweet after I hung up the podcast, I knew I was going to get a viscerated for it and I wasn't wrong. The DMs have been popping off. Rachel did orchestrate intentionally the two on one split. I'm sorry. I somehow missed that particular scene twice, but it was there. I got receipts. Rachel is slayed. Sorry, everyone. And I am perfect. No, I also, you know, despite watching everything with a fine two, then going through with a fine tooth comb, once the season's over, I do lose retention on a lot of the itty bitty's. So I will have facts to back things up here, but I'll have to look at notes. If I may be so bold, I feel like you two have a little bit of a Rachel and Steven vibe. How about that? Who's who? Telling me more. Well, okay. And if Ellie's Rachel. Okay. And you are Steven. Is that a one to one? I have the cue to outfit. Yeah. I have the cue to outfits. Who you could never know, but I can't even have that good value from Steven. Like I got to be the secondary and the bad outfits. Yeah. Okay. No, I mean, you know, and Abel, I feel like, you know, comes in. He's got a lot of like, you know, spicy takes is not afraid to upset the Apple car. Poo, a nice guy ever. We all we love Poo. Yeah. Like we're a kid. He couldn't be a trader. Like we love him. And so I think that there's a little symmetry there. Yeah. Poo is definitely the nice one. I would if it's coming to a screaming match, I think we would put me in the ring over Poo. So all right. I'll accept that. Look as stressed as Steven did in many of those shots, I'm not going to lie to you. I would be concerned. Yes. Okay. So why don't, how about, if you two have questions for me, you know what you've covered. Because I have, basically, I finished watching the season about 45 minutes ago. I have absorbed about 30 minutes of discourse in listening to your finale recap a bit. So yeah. Let's talk traders, UK season four, which I loved. I really, I really loved it. And I love traders, UK in general. I feel like for people who are mostly exposed to the traders, US, I really feel like that the distinction is, I think that the traders, US is a better show. And I think that the traders, UK is a better game. I think that you have much more of the pomp and circumstance and pageantry and drama at times and some of the fights and like social media moments in the US version of the show. And that's the spectacle. But then I think that the UK version of the traders, I think is the much more pure version of the game. And I think often at times the strategy is much better in the traders UK. And so I'm dying to talk with you both. Very excited. Can't wait. And I do agree with you. I think that it is a better game. I think that obviously, and we've talked about this a lot, but the US comes with a lot of meta gaming, a lot of pre connections that exist there. Bro, UK. Well, Rob, we saw a couple of connections here in the UK. So I feel like the easy question of the gate for you would be, who are your favorites along the way? And who are the people who you were like, ah, not my vibe. Okay, so I have the wiki open also. I don't know. Oops, wrong wiki. So I'm just going to have to go off the top of my head as I wait to get the UK wiki open. But I felt like that overall, I felt like that this was not a great season for the faithful in the traders UK. I felt like that there, even like a, I felt last season, I thought that there were several stars of the show that were from the facade of the faithful. I didn't really feel like other than Harry. And then of course, also Jackie, who did not make it to be super end game characters. I really felt like among the end game. I felt like it was kind of like Rachel and Steven were carrying the show. I didn't really feel like that there was anybody among the faithful who you really thought, like, oh, yeah, Faraz is going to put this together. Like he's got it. And I felt like that in season three, certainly where there was a bunch of really strong faithful towards the end of the game. And you felt like that the traders were much more on the ropes in season three. Certainly, even in season two, which had like a really good balance of like really interesting traders and then also really compelling faithful. I thought that that was also better. I get I love the season, but I felt like that I was, first of all, I was extremely spoiled at the time that I was watching the last couple episodes. But I also feel like that the faithful did not present like a really unified threat. And it got to the point where it literally was for us who was our last hope for the faithful, putting the pieces together. I'm like, oh, oh, it ain't looking good for us. Yeah. But there were some really notable faithful along the way. I'm sorry, I said Jackie, I'm sorry, it's Jesse. And Jesse who don't come for me now, but Jesse was so great. They did really keep her around too long. I heard you say that Annabelle in the podcast and she was really, really great. And I give her her own spin off. Like can we just follow Jesse around like opening up cold cases, solving true crime? And she had so much charisma. I really enjoyed her. Like not just as a game player, but as a character on the TV. I'd love to see her back. And I really felt like that. And I'm not sure. I did she call it a stutter or a speech impediment? A stammer. It's her stammer, apologies. I really felt like that. It really added to her character and her story to have her in the show. Because I think that you would see at times where she would be trying to get things out. And the things that she was saying were so important. And it really was like a character that you would see in a movie. She was really so great. And she was so honest and she had so many good reads. And that she was like typically, I think that like, okay, well, that's not the type of player that the traders typically will murder. They typically like, okay, she's probably an underestimated person, but that was their mistake that they underestimated her for too long. And she really did clock a bunch of things. So she was truly one of my friends. Like, you know, it's a good faithful. Like when they get murdered and then you're one of the people at breakfast like, no, not that person. It's just devastation. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think I audibly did that when Jesse went out. Could only dream of being cared about that much by the cost. I'm dying to hear what you thought of Harriet. Oh, Queen Harriet. I love her so much. And I can't believe that somehow Rachel was able to get past this. And I'd love to talk about Rachel and Steven, who's, who are we giving the credit to. But that episode where they did the confessional and so they go to the church and you're going to get to ask two questions to the traders. And Rachel is like, hey, let's workshop our questions. And how about, no, how about we're not going to do that? And then she asks them like, okay, here's my, like, what three people are you going to recruit? And they put her at number one. And she was like, like, if you hear my voice shaking, it's not because I'm scared. It's because I'm so angry that you insulted my intelligence. Rachel, I know you're in there. I'm coming for you. It was one of the greatest moments in any franchise. I loved it so much. And we're like, oh my God. What do we do? So good. I mean, you can only dream of being able to push it to the traders like that. You go ahead. You go ahead. You're going to get to talk to the traders. At first, I was like, I don't know about this, but it was just, it was so interesting. And so well done. And I felt like that Rachel, like, Rachel at the breakfast the next morning when Harriet comes in, he's like, hey, everybody, by the way, Rachel is a trader. Did everybody know this? And she is like, wait, what? And they're like, Rachel, what did you ask the questions? And Rachel's question to the trader, her fate question to the trades was like an essay. I was like, no, it was like, really? That was why you asked. They were just like, so I asked them if you were going, if you were in the turret and it was a Tuesday. And then this thing, and then they wrote back to me was, well, maybe, but probably not. It was like both her question and the answer to the question were so convoluted. And I felt like that was her biggest misstep in the whole game. And nobody was like, okay, that's weird. It's because Harriet's busy yelling at people to look at the pigeons or whatever. It's like, it's a lot going on from Harriet. I want to really quickly segue into Rob. We did, we did put out a call for questions. We had a question from Matthew. I yelled at the team because they put out a graphic that said, send to Rob your questions. Like, what are we doing? Well, I will say a lot of these questions are about traders, US that we got, but that's why we'll get a little bit more of Annabelle's US things to a week later. So I have a question from Matthew and Matthew says, hey, from season four of the UK, just waiting to see if I'm going to get picked for the trip to be a trader. Do you think my odds are high or low? What did you think about Matthew's plea to the traders? Matthew got out of the, he did the headstand too, right? Is that his kind of way shot? Yeah. It was an interesting ride for Matthew. Yeah, he was like, okay, if you like me, yes or no, kill Jesse. And then I'll know that I'm going to be working with you. So yeah, it seemed like that he had a lot of big ideas, but really, I don't think that Stephen and Rachel were that into him ever. I was really impressed that both Matthew and Harriet clocked that the secret to that twist, like the way you play that is about asking about yourself, right? It's about talking to the traders, rather than asking questions. And they weren't even really thinking what questions should I ask them. It's about what message about myself do I want to get across to them? Very different approaches. And then I love the mental gymnastics, the handstands, the whatever's Matthew was doing to be like, well, they didn't murder Jesse, but maybe they knew she had a shield. They still haven't recruited me, but maybe it was just about time. It's coming. I know it's going to happen. Trust me, they're going to call. The traders are going to recruit me. I will be a trader one day. Yeah. There's a man who I know has never been ghosted. He has not felt that pain. He's just like, they'll text me back. Not cancer. He's a very good looking guy. I would think that he probably, you know, especially with the handstands and everything. He's been very popular. Yes. Romani didn't get a lot of screen time to those last few episodes. Did he say the first butterer that he was planning a wedding? Is that what he said? Yes. He's engaged at the moment and then him and Stephen both had the shared experience of being queer in remote communities and having to go through church conversion. I must have missed it. I didn't even know that Matthew was gay until that scene. I was like, oh, look at this. What is the prize? His outfits weren't slaying his hottest Stevens. I'm just playing it out there. For the traders UK, the fashion is not really part of the show. No shade to the cast of the traders UK. But it's a lot of atleisure and Stephen really was the only person in this cast to really bring, which is interesting for a trader to have such a conspicuous look to call so much attention to themselves, really peacocking, even though not necessarily on peacock yet. He is like really a very fashion forward and had a very distinct look, which was really cool to see. I do think that the fashion is something that hurts the gameplay. This is an original hot take. The fashion is something I think that hurts the gameplay in the traders US as opposed to in the traders UK and other formats of the traders where the fashion is not such a big deal because it becomes the topic of conversation at the breakfast. Like, oh, look at your outfit. What are you wearing? Oh, I love that. That's so cool. Oh, look at that hat. Yes, yes, hat. Come on. And there's so much talk about what everybody is wearing. I think it behooves the traders ultimately that the topic becomes less about, hey, what do you think the traders are doing? Who are we going to go after today? What are we looking at? It's a lot of a lot. You only have a limited time at breakfast and I think that it eats into the game talk in terms of the outfit talk. I'm really glad you brought this up because I wanted to discuss this with you. So the UK season one guys, Ryan, Will, and I, and on its just a game podcast are adamant that rule number one is don't talk at breakfast. You can talk about the outfits. You can talk about the food. Don't talk about the game at breakfast. That's what gets you banished. What is your saying? No, no, no, no, no. The elaborate outfits are getting away from the game talk. Yes. What do you think ideal gameplay at breakfast is wrong? So I only attended one breakfast at a bell. So I do not have all of the answers. But I kind of feel like that the game talk could be in your favor or against you. But I feel like that if people are talking game, I feel like that there's information to be gleaned from that. And if you are talking game poorly at the breakfast, it does give people a lot to look at you. So I respect the idea of you shouldn't be the person to open up about gameplay at breakfast. But I do feel like that it becomes like a net negative for the gameplay in terms of everybody's talking about like, OK, so wrong. That's too much of a distraction from I think it helps the advantage traders to have talk about anything else except the game. I tend to agree because you just as you know have so little time, if we were then reducing that time even further by blocking out these hours, oh, I'm not allowed to talk about the game. I'm only allowed to talk about your new fascinator. I do think you're putting yourself at a disadvantage. I agree not the time to stand up, do a toast and say, all right, everyone, look at Pooeya. Pooeya, you're such a dog. I'm pretty sure it's you. I hate you, Pooeya. Don't go full-hurry it. But I think, you know, conferring with the people you're sitting next to, sharing ideas, like I would actively encourage that. What do you think, Pooeya? Yeah, I feel like I would feel the same with breakfast. I understand that as someone who needs his coffee in the morning before really being a functioning member of society, I recognize that I'm not going to give you my best self in the morning. So just leave me be a little bit. Don't maybe talk to me too loud. But I do understand what Rob is saying. What? What? What? What? I say, Rob? No, I just I think we've ever seen out of the traders where somebody comes into breakfast. It's kind of like grumpy cat. I hate morning. Julia used to on an Ida fiancé with who is the guy that Julia was with? Brandon. Brandon. I'm not a morning person. Yeah, but I feel like everyone knows the cameras are on be presentable. We're here. But I do understand the idea that they would say, hey, don't talk game in the morning. This is our chill time with the cast. But then I also notice that what Rob saying where I do think that big elaborate outfits, we even still see it happen with the US throughout the day. If someone hasn't gotten a chance to talk to someone, we see their little cut seem to be like, I really love what you're wearing. This is absolutely incredible, which does take away from moments that could be more game specific. I do think the US has made it a lot more of a murder mystery dinner party than maybe some of the others have because I feel like I forget this often. When I'm watching the you can like, oh, yeah, I forgot. These are just regular people wearing regular clothes. Don't get it twisted. I'm not saying get rid of the fashion. I think it's a big part of the show and it really does add to the pageantry and make it larger than life. And it's something that really makes the traders US unique. I just do think that it's one of the things I think that makes it sort of like less game forward. I actually think the secret. I think Colton, big brain Colton, he's reinvented the way US has played. Wearing outfits so repulsive, everyone's afraid to comment on it. I call it. Hi, Colton. So who do you think the trainers are everybody? Forget all the top of stuff. Let's get to the game. What do we think? Oh, like, I was not going to touch that. Let's get into the look. Who do you think the traders are going to be vanished today? What did you think about Stephen Rachel? You know what? I heard your debate about who carried the duo. Was it Stephen or was it Rachel? And I think it is an interesting argument. I am much more in the camp of team Rachel. I think that Rachel was the MVP. She could not have done it without Stephen. However, I look at them sort of like a survivor season where Boston Rob like went to the end with Natalie Tenerelli. And like, he couldn't have done it probably without Natalie Tenerelli as sort of like my loyal person, people like, and probably that's not the best example of Rob. You had Tony and Trish who was kind of like, you had the big bombastic personality and the person who was sort of like doing a little bit of damage control and cleanup behind the scenes. And I really looked at them because obviously without Stephen's help, Rachel could not have gotten to the end. However, and without Rachel, I think Stephen could have won by himself at the end. I will say it would not have been a good season of TV if Stephen did it without Rachel. It would have been a very, very boring snooze fest to see Stephen have won as a trader without Rachel. And I heard you two citing my theory of the three types of traders that we have. We have the control freak. We have the the quiet one, the silent assassin, and then the wild card. And I think that we saw, so what we saw here in this season was a great example of like when the control freak and the quiet one are on the same page, get rid of the wild card. Like that can be a very deadly duo. And I think that the worst seasons of the traders where like the traders end up doing well are where the quiet one is just like, okay, the quiet one has become the trader in control. And the faithful are sort of just like going after each other or like very subtle things are happening. Not as interesting or compelling as when it's the control freak who's actively doing things. But you had in this unique circumstance where Rachel and Stephen, you had Rachel actively doing big crazy things. Stephen, like along for the ride, doing damage control, having great social relationships, it was really effective. And I loved what you both were saying about it being a joyful win for the traders at the end as opposed to these other times where the traders win where it's kind of a downer. Like think about like Harry in season two when I with all due respect to the girl that Harry brought to the end who was Molly. Yeah. She was like despondent. She was having the worst night of her life. And such a pressing. The traders win often really depressing. Everyone's crying and they kind of have to be ushered off stage. So the host can be like, well, congratulations. Yeah. So this was like a really fun win for the two of them. And so you were very happy for them. But I was more happy for Rachel. I'm not surprised. Yeah. I do think that I think that I mean ultimately Rachel is the one that like watching Rachel's success story of fighting the deepest of allegations. I think Stephen really had Jesse. But Jesse wasn't a Fiona publicly putting her on blast. Jesse wasn't a Harriet publicly putting her on blast back to back. So it felt like Rachel kind of like gets to the end all bloodied up with all the fights she had to do. So naturally, I'm like, yes, the story is a lot more compelling with Rachel there. Much like Annabelle's favorite addition to her coffee. It is a bit of a half and half in that they did need each other to get there for sure. Yeah. And Rachel dodged so many bullets. And you talked about the 5050, which was opening the chest when it's her against James who such a he was a great character in terms of being a horrible faithful who like was sort of like good. He was a horrible faithful who like knew he was also a horrible faithful except that he got like extremely overconfident when he got the dagger like a like, ah, you've made the mistake now Matthew. You'll see. But she also I thought caught a huge break when Fiona doesn't vote for her at that round. It's like that they they caught Fiona. And he was like, you know what? I and credit to Fiona for I really like that in terms of like just not giving the parting gifts to Rachel. I hope she wins. You know, I respect for her. And that really saves Rachel's whole game that Fiona didn't put the vote on her. We've not seen it. Now I'm thinking about it. Correct me from wrong period. I don't think we've seen a parting gift in a while. I hope that dies. I don't love a parting gift. And I've been reflecting on it because, you know, I think because I kept seeing so much of one is, you know, Rachel sucks or Rachel's the best traitor ever. I was like, you know, reacting against that I think last time I heard about it. As I've sat with it, I think I'm much higher, even higher on Rachel now than I was before. Yeah. I think Rachel always gets to the end without Stephen. I feel I don't think, you know, she needed Stephen to win there at the end, but I think if you you simulated this a thousand times, Rachel both had the relationships, the trust, the social chops, and was just strategically moustiful. Whereas Stephen had the relationships and was a bit of a strategic flop bless him, but really had the relationships. Yeah. Like I think yeah. The secret sauce for Stephen is if Stephen simulates this game a thousand times, if he's in there with a Rachel type, he's in good hands and he can provide because I think Stephen's biggest thing for me was he was able to keep Rachel calm when Rachel is under so much scrutiny and under so much heat. And that allows Rachel to thrive doing all the things she's capable of because I do agree with you. Rachel is the type of traitor that has it all socially has the game on lock, but then also under very, very, very harsh light and spotlight, she's able to come out of it with with both compelling questions. She's able to be very level headed and she's able to absolutely turn it on its head even when it really looks like she is doomed. We saw this with and without saying a lot more. We saw this with a recent season of another Trader's franchise where a traitor early on was kind of called out or caught, would you say? And they end up making it all the way to the end and it was because they have the connections because they knew how to get out of it. That is very masterful to do so to get there and win. I think Rachel should be talked about as one of our best Traders ever. Yeah. I was going to say that in terms of Rachel, I kind of want to give her credit for like knowing that she needed Stephen also. Yeah. Like not turning on Stephen at any point. Yeah, that she realized that she needed Stephen to be able to get this done. And ultimately, I think that when it gets down to the fire of truth, she's not going to be able to, you know, convince Jack ultimately like, hey, hey, Jack, guess what? Stephen's the Trader. We got it. So I think she also saw the writing on the wall also that he had some these relationships. And so I think that she realized that I can't do it alone. I need Stephen. And when she locked him in, even though we know he was never a total lock for her, he said he was debating to the last minute whether or not he would cut her. When she coming to him that early in the piece, locking it down, saying, I'm in this with you, even though he had the stronger relationship with Fiona still chooses Rachel over Fiona actively. And then gets to the end, has the stronger relationship with the faithfuls he's with still thinks, no, I don't want to betray everyone. I want a happy ending. I will still go with Rachel. So I think that she's I totally agree. Yeah. So she was so good. And so many times like people came to her and like really like nailed her to the wall. And she was so indignant about like, how dare you say that I'm a traitor or with Roxy. She really like, no, Roxy, like she was like hurt. Like no, Roxy, no, I'm you got it. It's not me. It's not you have to believe me. She's like hugging Roxy. So she ended up so many different ways having to defend herself. She was just so active. And I feel like that for the show, the traders, she's exactly what I want to see as a traitor. And we've seen so many good traders over the years. But I think that she really is just one of the best. And with all the respect to Stephen, I think that as a traitor, like I just feel like he's kind of like, was whatever, like a very, very you know, good player, but not necessarily any flash other than his wardrobe. I think I find him so impressive because he has something I know I just don't and I'll never have. Like to exude that aura of trustworthiness to be that loveable where Fiona and Rachel are falling over themselves to be his number one, where he has this cadre of faithful who, no matter what evidence is in front of them, will never believe that he is a traitor. I, you know, I could spend a lifetime practicing trying to do that and I will never have that. And so I do respect that in him. He could have in another world one as a faithful, where he was just would have been somebody that people kept around. They love we love Stephen. We're not going to murder him. And so like he really does have that likeability and people are just so at ease around him and he just seems like a extremely nice person that you would want to hang out with. So I just think as a TV character, I just found like Rachel is why I'm here watching the show. Yeah. We didn't with the stars. The women were the stars of the season. I feel like that all easily of the, I'm just going back to the like all of the men in terms of the season. If we had like a draft of the men, like it's kind of bleak with all the respect. Yeah. We, I feel like, and we talked about this a little bit, I feel like after Stephen, there's a bit of a drop and I'm like, do we, do I really go, if we did a draft and Stephen's off the board? Do I really go all the way back to Ross? Like that's what my eyes go to. I would say, was Ross my compelling character? I think that the second best male character of the season, I think is probably James. Because that he was, there was such a like comedy to him where like he did so many things wrong. So many people were suspicious of him. He ultimately gets the dagger and that's hilarious. He's like throwing up on the mission. So like, I just feel like there was a lot of humor that came from James. I think that at least he was memorable. I'm disgusted by the mass erasure here. I expected better. Well, to be clear, there were looking to mass erasure early and often, the man was on the short list every time. It was a tough site to see. I do think Rob, you know, you've like to break it down to three types of traders. I think wild card faithful absolutely belongs to James. You never knew what to expect with him, except for his consistency in like looking at Matthew as a potential suspect. Other than that, it really felt like at any given point, he says the wrong thing, the eyes are on him. He says the wrong thing to someone else, they're looking at him. Yeah. Really was unpredictable. And Rachel with a straight face to be banishing him. She's like, you know what? I just don't know. James, you could be playing all of us. I just, you could be like really, you think James is like the next level trader, really? That was Rachel's favorite card to play was, what if this is a genius move and they did do a reverse reverse on us? She got away with doing that on like four people. That and also like, why would I do this? Why would, why would that make sense? Which is a very tough thing to do, because when you start playing the, let me tell you exactly why this makes no sense for me to do as a person. It's like only a trader would think that deeply or in some of these cast specifically. That also one other thing that Rachel had in her arsenal was continuously use the goodwill of Amanda to build any case she needed from the minute Amanda left the game. Yeah. That was been able to the the whole Amanda saga of like, hey, I need to tell Rachel that I am a, a police officer or was it was it was it was a police officer or she was a, a bar or a barista also? No, no, no, that was Harriet. Harriet was the former barista. Amanda was the retired police detective. Yes. I don't know that Amanda loved that either. I was watching the uncloked kind of reunion and Amanda was giving some real salty looks every time that came up. She didn't like that Rachel. You weaponize that against her. I don't know. She did look for Amanda ultimately because, you know, she's like, hey, I have the best reads like, let me tell you're the one person I'm going to trust and it's like, okay, the head trader. Yeah. Well, I did do think it's so funny that Amanda is feeling salty about that was like, Amanda, at least she brought some goodwill back to your name and got a trader when you all you were doing was pushing wrong names and Jade. Jade was your crowning jewel and like, I saw the post. I saw the tweets throughout the sea. The people being like, we need to open every case Amanda has closed. How is this possible? So Amanda, light up is fine. Deva stayed relevant like four to five episodes after she left and that's all we can ask for. Yeah. Good storyline. I want to know Rob. Secret Trader Twist. Yes. There was a secret Trader Twist. You were out of where I'm off at the time that you lived through. Yeah. Didn't love it. I didn't live through it, actually. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a little bit of it. It's a part of it. Oh, I talked to Lily was the reason why I was no longer living to be frank. Yeah. How it played out in the US as a TV version versus the UK, what did you think? Yes. So I actually, I was have not like thrown the baby out with the bath water in terms of being result oriented and personally how it affected me. I think it's actually really interesting. It was also, I think it's fascinating to look at. They filmed this before they filmed the US season like the adjustments they made from one thing to the other where in the UK, the secret trader did know who the real traders were. And then in the US, the secret trader did not know who the traditional, I don't know what they've real traders. The traditional traders were. So I do think it's interesting and I could see there being more life for the secret trader. Obviously, it works out better here. But then I kind of felt like that at the point where Hugo goes home that Fiona was no longer a secret trader and then just kind of like seem like that there was no distinction between her and Rachel and Steven, unless I was missing something. No, she became a regular trader once. And was that always how it was going to work where that once a regular trader, the traditional trader goes out then and we were going to bring the secret trader into the turret. That's what it looked like in the UK for me. It looked like that's when the door would have opened and they would have brought the secret trader in. Yeah, because I kind of like this idea. And it was like a little bit more like in the US seemingly where I like the idea that the secret traders or the traders are fighting sort of like a two front battle of like, hey, we are fighting against the faithful, but also the secret trader is throwing us off. And so I really like the idea of the secret trader controlling the short list and the real traders are not just on the lookout for the faithful. Like we are also on the lookout for the secret trader. And secret trader is really is is totally ruining our plans with giving us this short list. So I would love to have a way where even after they meet for the secret trader to still be in control of the short list for a little while longer, I think that that could be like a really fun. Then like even when they meet up when the traders could be like, hey, you give us you got to give us better people like, I'll do no such thing. I'll see you in hell. You know, like it would be fun I think to have that back and forth between the secret trader and the traditional traders. And then how would that play out the round table? Thinking about this, if like say this was a regular part of the seasons, how does this play out? So the only way to truly uncover the secret trader is to either banish them or have one of the regular traders banished and bring them into the turret. Does that encourage early trader on trader violence between the regular traders? Because they want to stop the short list and they want to know who this other person is. I think it could go either way because it's also like, hey, do you want this wild card in here? I think so and I think that would help the faithful as well right? Because trader on trader is a really great way to find out who they are. The other thing I want to know now I know they did this twist in the Norwegian version. I've not seen it. Both of our secret traders went out really early in the press. Yes. Is this because of who they chose as secret traders or is this baked into the format do we think? Well, in both versions, they ended up choosing an older woman who is not necessarily a master strategist. I think that Fiona certainly was feisty and certainly had a spark. But neither of them was going to be somebody who would be able to play this very patient, social strategy game. I think it would be interesting to see what this looks like in the hands of a different player. Yeah. I think that with regards to the US, I do think that it being completely a blind item where the secret trader didn't know who the traders were either really hurt the secret trader. I think the secret traders themselves don't have an avenue to make connections with the people that they could potentially be co-workers with. So that's never going to be a good spot to be. There's not enough networking opportunity. Whereas with Fiona, I feel like there was a little bit of let me give them what I think they would want. And that's a good way to for them to bond. So when they do meet, it's a lot more chill and a lot more of a softer landing. We never got to see Donna in the turret. So I do feel like that could have maybe turned something around or maybe that could have built a connection. And she needed that. I think she would have really benefited from 100% agree. Yeah. Having a support system. Do you think we'll see the secret trader again? I think I'll give it a break, but I think we'll see it again. Yeah. Because it's been interesting that they will sometimes do things for a cycle. And then it's not like that that's part of like we saw the seer in both the UK and the US last year. And then that came and went. And so I wonder if they try things for a year. And then just like, hey, next year there'll be some new twist that's in UK season five and US season five. Yeah. I mean, I would say. How did it change to be quite experimental? Sorry, Canada, if you will try some new stuff as well independently. I think that for me, if I was a betting man, I would say seer, we will see a lot more later if ever as opposed to the secret trader. I think secret trader will return to doomsday. I don't think seers returning to doomsday. Yeah. I do wonder if there are also opportunities for other faithful roles like in like the werewolf world. Like could we ever see like a doctor where okay, in addition to the shields, there's one faithful who's like the most important faithful who also can assign immunity to one of the faithfuls each night. And that could be I think also like an interesting wrinkle there in terms of like we've now have the secret trader role. Like could we expand to other interesting roles? Yeah, I would love to see more. I don't think I want to see the seer again as you were saying, Pooja, like that as a faithful role that you can win, not as crash on it. But I do think the idea, Rob as you say, of having or the idea that certain faithful can secretly get shields. But perhaps they aren't allowed to keep the shield themselves. They have to be it they get these shields and they're allowed to secretly hand them off to people before bed. I think that would be quite interesting. I do think that there is a lot and we were talking about this last night in terms of like the faithful not revealing who has the shield. I feel like that in a world where I mean we saw a trader win in well spoiler alert for celebrity UK. And then traders will have one here and we'll see how the US plays out. But I do think that we should probably be looking at more ways to sort of like level the playing field a little bit to give the faithful more of a fighting chance. And I think long term that's how you keep it interesting. You know, I don't I'm never asking for the traders to be a fair flawless game. I'm happy for it to be a TV show first and a game second. But I think if we want this to still be interesting, take us out, be to start investing more in the faithful as characters. Yeah. And to be fair, last season faithful one in the US and in the UK. So it's not necessarily like it's totally lopsided. But you know, this was so far a good year for the traders. I'd love to talk a little bit about the family relationships here. And so we ended up having two secret relationships here with ultimately it being Roxy and her mom and then also the Ellie and Ross. Yeah. And then a coincidental third with Ross and daddy. Yeah. And his situation. Yeah. So very that's why Ross was so crossed up. I was not expecting you to be sure. This is super awkward. That's why he acted so weird. But oh god, my actual girlfriend's here and I can't even racial. Yes. So with the family tree being in there, I think that a lot of people thought that they were going to be way more family relationships that were there. Why did they put the family tree in there other than for there to be the murder and plain sight? That's it. I don't think there's any other reason it just looks fun on a motif tip. Maybe it's to tip them off of like, hey, there are some connections, figure it out. Maybe that. But I think it's more of a visual for the murder and plain sight, which I think it was a very I do enjoy that type of murder and plain sight where they do have to leave evidence in the middle of the castle for people to see. Yeah. And Abel, this is probably more directed towards people that are going to play in the traders civilian season in the US at some point in maybe this year. So do you think that voting any mental energy to trying to figure out like a secret relationship helps you in the castle? Good question. I think you should be dedicating your mental energy to who is very clearly aligned. Yes. Like who has really tight relationships? I don't care if you're related, you're married, you're whatever, who even if you don't see them talking to each other all that often is always voting together. Who when you raise their name, always shuts that name down. Like that I think is really, really important. We saw that on a season recently. All of a sudden you now have this unbreakable drew at the end. So I think you should dedicate a lot of mental energy to finding out what the flow, the relationship map of the castle is. Personally, I just I don't care if you're related or not. What do you think? Yeah, I don't think it matters too much. And I feel like that the people who try to figure it out ultimately, like they get it wrong. Like was it UK season two where Diane had her son who was there. And then they're like, oh yeah, Diane and Paul, I think that they're actually mother and son. So like whenever you are trying and sometimes like you could be like way off of like, okay, those two people, they're the same race, they're related, right? Probably a bad idea. So don't do that. So but I think that one of the things that I think this is useful for catching traders also, it's like that the traders are never like together like in broad daylight. Like the two people that are like, oh, in the cat in the US season, it was like Donna and Ron and Michael were all the three that were trying to get the votes for Porsche. And there was like a thought like all three of them are traders. So I was like, really? You think so? That the three traders are just out here like out on a limb, the three people working on on this vote together in broad daylight and riding together in the car. Though that's the traders. So if the more people are together, I think it's sort of like clear is that both of them are not traders and both of them are not in some sort of family relationship because they try to hide it. Yeah. For me, I feel like if there's people related, I'm not related. I don't care. Just be ready to make the reaction once someone decides to make a public spectacle of it and reveal their relationship or one. Yeah, if they get, they guess reveal whether they're still in the game or one they're about to get banished, that's fine. I did think it was kind of a dud for Claudia to have to reveal about Roxy being the daughter of Judy where at least like Ellie got to have like a moment in the season. She's like, well, I came here with my boyfriend Ross and everything's like, but then for Claudia, that's reveal you know who else is very sad about Roxy being dead her mom like I ever thought my god. What's up? It's like about me being murdered also. Judy. Let's be real. The family relationships full stop were a massive flop. They were a massive flop this episode. Who cares? Snooze fast. I think they've been getting, we're getting diminishing on them. Yeah. Frankly, unless they're specifically to call us lesbian drama, I don't need to see them again. Yeah. I feel like we peaked with one and two back to back. We really got the best scenario of both. I feel like the sisters in season three, I thought gave that was a moment where one of the sisters was like, you're acting weird. And then the one sister clocked the other sister at the round table. That was really. And then with instantly murdered because she was so beautiful. Like, well, she just voted out her sister who was a traitor. So she had to be murdered instantly. So I thought that that was good. But yeah, I forget Diane and her son what his name was. And then he got recruited Ross. Ross. Yeah. That was good because then he had to go to the funeral for like when she was like one of the Mark B. Rim. She got a she got murdered in plain sight, right? She drank from the cup. That's what happened to her. I believe so. Yes. And it was the same thing where they they did. It was like the Eccansu like like burial march from season two. Yeah. Yeah. Pooey and I were talking about this last night on the podcast spoilers for us episode seven. I thought that the dagger worked so much better here in terms of how it was brought into the game by the traders having to decide who got the dagger and they could give it to themselves as opposed to a a cop and a very physical comp at that ultimately determining who was going to get to play for the dagger. Although I didn't mind the actual game that was played in terms of like deciding who would get the dagger out of that group. But I didn't like that it was you know this physical comp that we saw the same the same comp here in the UK that was making James puke. Like this determined like if you did not have the physical fitness to like make it up the mountain, you were out of the running for the dagger. So you know like for with all due respect to you know Candace during the you know Lisa like they're like out of the running instantly for you know the dagger. Agree. And I feel like this is something that gets talked about across all all sorts of game wherever we bring in that element of choice and the contestants are actively making choices it becomes more strategically interesting. So if the the traders are making a choice about who to give the dagger to or when we've seen on other seasons someone gets to make a choice who I'm going to give a shield to who I'm going to give a dagger to or even emissions where I make a choice between being seen to be supportive of the team or selfishly go after a shield instead. I think that is always going to make for Bunch better television than which muscle man can muscle the most muscle up the hill. I don't care about that. I will say also that there was a little bit of a social strategy element to it in that you could have pulled the money together but nobody was saying like hey we all love Candace so much even though she's not here let's put the money let's put all of our gold in her chest. Yeah. I I loved and I loved the fall out that came from it right like James having a full ego spiral he's like I know I don't know but what if I do know and then everyone pointing at James I can't believe it worked I can't believe that it went exactly according to their plan because I'm like okay at the end of the day it's like there's two of them and there was such power in there being two of them and I felt like that okay all right so I don't know if there's seven people or eight people left at the point where the dagger came out and so it's like okay you know if we have three votes now together like that's that's pretty if we could just get like one or two more people like we could just like bully our way to the end to do it this way but then to give it to and I don't even remember exactly how it worked out where they're gonna like give it to James and then frame a Matthew where it's like oh you don't think the trader gave it to James because that's the trader would never do that it's so obvious like it's so that it's the dumbest thing the trader could do so it's the perfect thing the trader we would never see it coming honestly some of the things that faithful are willing to buy just astounds me they need something to believe they need some anything yeah it's so it's presented always like you don't think they wouldn't right right we're not being stupid are we yeah she fed so many of those how many banishments did she run just by seeding the most ludicrous idea ever with confidence well she also did a very interesting thing of that she said to people and we and I were talking about this the other day she said to me they're like okay I have a confession to make I wanted to be a trader I said I want to be a trader and I was in a trader but I'll reveal to you I took like four months of CIA training to come here and I could and I read body language and then I don't even know if that was true or not that she's is that actually true but that she's like and then for us you know I saw yeah Jade is like winking when she's talking did you clock that and so she clenched her jaw she's definitely a liar yeah I mean these are things that you know we've seen people we've said you know this isn't sort of like survivor where everyone's lying about their job per se but we've also said never bring up stuff like this that late into the game because it's just suspect but again it's a testament to Rachel's game where she can say it and instead of being like that's weird for you to say this now that's something a trader would do instead they're like oh my god all the pieces fit no wonder you were being a little suspicious no wonder I thought something was off I'm so good that I figured out an FBI trained person so yeah tell me now that we're working together tell me tell me apart whether you're knowledge please and I think we've got enough data now that if you hear someone is a former police officer detective or has police training this is a sign that whatever they are saying is wrong is wrong they are misreading the situation have the opposite and about how are you saying that the the police officer role is now equal to the psychiatrist role where if they're in the castle then also they are wrong because we for a while the the psychiatrist or what was it the medium that's what I meant the medium that more so yeah that's that psychiatrist psychic yeah they're always in the wrong for the most part so like now this is also a role that's getting there I want to ask the two of you something as two players of this show um we have now seen two instances in the last year of the tide vote going down to the chest the 50 50 one of you gets a shield one of you doesn't do you think this is the best mechanic to to end a double tiebreaker and if not what else could it be yeah I don't have an issue with it I feel like it's pretty interesting when it comes down to this and it was such an interesting time vote where two people end up flipping on the revote where I you know I kind of felt like that was coming because when they ended up was it was that Jack ends up like flipping to then he he's Jack and Jade both flip so Jack ends up switching his vote to jay to banish James where he was Rachel and I was like okay well he switched uh he just switched to James so okay this is like but they would never ended on not on the person who flipped so I was like uh oh I think that and then fricking Jade flipped yeah it was exciting and I think it's still interesting where we've seen it I'd say Pooja like in principle the game is not about strategic voting to get your friends to the end you know in principle it's about voting out the traders which means that faithful should never be punished by the game for voting out who they think is a traitor which means that you can't have a survivor style scenario here we're not going to rock we're not going to rocks and who would you give the power of a tie break to is Claudia gonna walk soon and go oh do I like James or do I like Rachel better like I can't think of a better mechanic than the one we have and I think it's exciting enough for TV that I don't see a fundamental issue with it do you see an issue with it Pooja? No I mean this has been something we have been longing to get an answer for of what happens in the event of a tie that is not going to be broken and I think that when we saw it happen with Celeb I was happy when we saw it here I was happy mind you I was happy because I got the result I wanted also um I think that helps it heaps uh but I think that at the end of the day this is kind of and then you know Rob I talked about this with Annabelle this is what we were hoping to get from traders us last season this is why we were like the traders should stuck together in that part and I don't want to be a results oriented because I think it's fine but it would have been a huge flop if Rachel got out this way and yeah a 50 50 shield chest really yeah I think Steven still wins I think Steven probably goes to the end with what Jack and Jade and then he's still he's still going to win but I think then that that last episode a little bit of a little bit more of a snoozer I also feel like and with I say this lovingly with all due respect I feel like that the the final mission I feel like is never super exciting like I feel like that the whole show is built around the intrigue of the the traders versus the faithful and then this last battle where like there's no like the traders aren't be like acting like traders in any way shape or form for this very big action sequence like I kind of find myself like a little bit like I'm on you know two acts for the final mission yeah every other mission throughout the season has some kind of stakes as far as shields or safety and then this is and Rob you you do love this in other instances but it's very schmoopy it's a very special yeah I gotta be there they have the focus groups they know but in terms of like it's it's the biggest scope of any mission of the season but I find that I'm the least intro like I want to hey let's get down to like we got the like final round table coming up we got the fire of truth like there's almost like nothing that's in this where like could there be something where there's like hey if somebody goes off and does that like could the dagger be on the final mission whereas like could somebody like subvert going for the money for the price pot in order to try to get the dagger for that final five vote yeah that's what I was to eat the problem is they fixed the other missions to an extent by adding stakes yes no stakes here I I was going to say the dagger as well Rob I was going to say that everyone's going to hate me for suggesting it because I know people already feel it's OP at that point but I bring in a dagger what if there's someone who turns around and says I know that we need the extra 70k to make up the deficit but screw you all I'm going for the dagger instead I think that would be pretty epic I mean you you could probably do the seer if you wanted to here but the dagger I think is the cleanest of like okay well one extra vote at the final five is huge and like so you know would somebody at the cost of I don't even know if anybody would do it but just the threat that somebody would like abandon the mission even the mission that they did with I like the mission that they did it was the same one that they did on the US but different like set up differently of like could some could the traders get there to be a murder by not putting bringing enough gold for them to cover the shield and so and they did that a little bit on the US in terms of like if anybody takes a shield in moving the statues around when they were fixing the fountain could then then the traders would not get the chance to murder so the traders were sort of incentivized to pick up a shield along the way so I like this idea of the traders potentially sabotaging the the mission in order to be able to preserve their kill like the traders aren't necessarily guaranteed a kill every night like I like that they have some stakes to in some of these missions that might also potentially blow their cover yeah I'll go ahead and I'll get it yes and bed last night and I was like why if and I'm not sure I'm even sold on this I was just thinking about it what if every murder had to be a murder in plain sight what if there was no secret murders of a night and every day the faithful get the chance to collect evidence because the murder always happens in front of you so to the degree to the degree that the like there's the player still wake up in the morning and read the letter and go to breakfast and we in one person's missing like all that still happens like the actual business of the murder is still happening at night but the mechanism for deciding who they're going to murder I just like it might break the show in terms of like they like to have their cliffhanger on like who should it be which one of these people so to have it be the murder in plain sight happened during the missions I think would really sort of like break the format what if the person they murdered in plain sight gets banished yeah yeah true true that is one I think the other than I think now we're a little bit too close to the mole territory again where it's like there's a lot more evidence and I just for me I do love seeing the traders have to talk in the secret I feel like already we've made a lot of the murders a little more astroky and by that I don't mean like they have like a questionable decision but I think that there are a lot less cut and dry of this is the full list of people they can murder and they talk about it overnight I was looking at this earlier and like I believe in both these seasons we don't get a regular regular murder to like episode five with what would say like you know with us it would be the episode five where Monet goes and then with the UK I think you're looking at when Reese finally leaves when they decide to put Reese out of his man yeah yeah yeah yeah so many shields are being handed out the ones on to the UK yeah some more trajectory something else I really love about the UK that they don't have on the US is I don't know what the music licensing situation is but they go I love cover songs listen love cover bands and they do such a great job with like the pop music covers in the like even in the opening of the show where like Claudia is like what's on the radio and they're like tell me lie tell me sweet little lie so good and then they like in the traders US they tend to play the same music over and over again but I love like all the different rock covers that they have oh totally I think that's one of my favorite things about the UK as well I wonder if the BBC has already has some kind of licensing agreement for the radio I'm not sure I'm going to invest together yeah I think it's a different set of rules because I remember when we watched survivor UK that there was a lot of like pop music and I don't know if it necessarily covers but in terms of like they seem to be able to have more leeway with music licenses and about can I ask you a US traders question please I did you have any thoughts about in the US a little bit of controversy over the murder and plain sight of jam jam which was an unusual and original murder in which Alan called for guards to come and take a drag jam jam out of the room he's like it was Lisa Lisa kissed me so people said like hey that's not fair why why is jam jam allowed to just throw somebody under the button well that's kind of what he does but why is jam jam allowed to just throw Lisa's name out on the way out the door okay so I've been at a conference all week which means I've not had a chance to listen to your recap I basically watched the episode fell into bed yes however I have seen I will get to it poo which is better than you can say for babes in the conclave our essay of optimize title um the I have seen on Twitter people hated this I loved it I have no issue with it whatsoever I thought it was cinematic I thought jam jam turning to Stephen and saying you won't even hold my hand you bitch and then getting dragged screaming out of the room Lisa really kissed me she kissed me it's Lisa I mean perfect I think people are mad because they drastically overestimate how often the faithful are likely to get the name correct I mean famously jam jam completely incorrect about the kiss he literally could have said that about anyone and I think it was an unfortunate coincidence for Lisa that he got the name right so I've gone over she with it at all yes um to me it was not jam jam outing Lisa with the kiss it was when Rob decided that he was going this was the smoking gun that he was going to use to prosecute Lisa so I think that yes jam jam did call it out but he wasn't even right that uh it was the kiss that did it it was Rob who really like started to he's like hey jam jam was I think he was cooking with that I think that that was made a lie we should listen you know where I come from we believe people okay I mean this is what Rachel does with Amanda using Amanda's words as gospel to push an agenda and this is what he does I think that you know and then and of a robin I talked about this a little bit yesterday where you're coming into this you know it's a murder in plain sight because it's a banquet something weird's going to happen you're going to be sensitive over the top suspects in the castle already and I feel like Lisa was already probably high on everyone's radar so anything she does could fall back on her I also didn't mind the he gets to say whatever he wants at the end because some people might not even react that way I think jam jam was just one that was like laser it in on saying a name on the way out for all we know Stephen colletti would have just silently been like all right just just take me away I'm dead now yes and friend of mine texted me this that no issue with this because like if he got at the round table if he got banished he could just like it's Lisa Lisa's the traitor everybody it's Lisa make sure thenj me make sure you get her and so it's not like totally out of the realm of the traders that a person who's out of the game is able to talk it's actually a part of the show just the difference was that this murder in plain sight you know I Jeremy last season you know like when they're putting them into the casket's like he could have said like hey everybody I know it's Danielle is one of the traders you know he was not technically out at that point yeah nine times out of 10 the faithful are wrong and nine times out of 10 the faithful don't actually care for or respect anyone else's opinions but they're wrong let alone the opinion of someone who's no longer in the game so if you're worried that this is somehow breaking the integrity of the game by being overpowered because all of a sudden everyone's going to care what jam jam had to say I just don't think that's rooted in reality and I think you're so right Rob it's only because snake rob had decided that he was going to commit a little bit of traitor on trader that anybody even remembers this happened and people liked having Lisa Rena on the show where it disappointed that she's gone and disappointed that the traders look like they were really going he's subunit and so they're sort of like blaming jam jam for Lisa being out of the game so I think that everybody you know as I often am probably it's like hey I didn't like what happened so it's not fair I mean I'm holding a lifelong garage against rob the snake so I understand it people let jam jam be your snake rob mm-hmm. Anything else we want to touch on here talking about trade as you case do you have any other questions from the listeners Pooja? So the big one that was the conversation about the secret trader and the differences there but I guess we can end on this one it's a little bit more of a broader question having watched both the UK and US versions what are some things you believe the UK does better and what are some things you believe the US does better now we talked about this a little bit at the beginning where you mentioned one is a better show one is a better game is there any specifics that you find you know stick out to you as factors. So I think that just from a casting perspective that I think that and this maybe this season is not the best example of it that everybody that's on the UK version of the show is somebody who that there's a reason why we think this person it will be interesting to watch this person play the game I think with the US casts of from all of the cast you know there's like how famous is this person and I even think that in the celebrity UK version of the show that they had people who were not just celebrities but people who are also sort of like very avid fans of the show who came in with a lot of game knowledge and the celebrity trade UK traders players were actually quite good at the game where I don't think that necessarily like everybody that's cast on the US version of the show is coming in with like the knowledge base that's needed to give us the game that we sometimes get in the UK version of the show. Yeah I completely agree but I think I mean that's almost a cultural issue as well because the traders is just so big in the UK it's the biggest show they're renting out cinemas to put on the finale yeah and you know you're just never going to have that and the the traders is not going to hit those dizzying heights in the US there's so much competition with other shows so it's completely feasible in the UK that an a-list celebrity would be a huge fan of seeing every version in a way is that asking too much about the US. And I'm actually very bullish on the civilian version of the show because I think that we could really get like the best of both worlds with the like I think that we could take the things that work really well in the US and I kind of feel like that I don't know if they're going to if the civilians will like have like as much of like the fashion forward pageantry of like maybe that will be the distinction between the US celebrity version versus the US normie season but I think that everybody that's going to come into the civilian season of the traders is going to be armed with like either a really interesting personality of like I have to see what it looks like to see this person play the show or people who are really avid fans of the show who are coming in with a real sense of what how they want to play the game. Not as I would just like a whole bunch of nutters I don't think we're going to get the outfits because like which civilian has a budget or a sponsorship to be getting the water yeah but I want truly unhinged civilians like give me Canada give me oh my gosh where did they find this person and then put them in with Pooja so Pooja has to navigate it alone and you could live my night that's what I'm manifesting. Why would you ever manifest that for me? I feel like that's so mean. What would you want me to thrive in the event that I ever do that? No I mean I listen I also feel okay well that's mean okay it would be awkward if you were oh you won the show and Annabelle and I would be feeling like very inadequate. Awkward but fair you know but like but like appropriate. I don't know don't we want good things for our friends I don't understand this. Well Lord of the Crazies Pooja. This really loves company. That would if I ever did something like that and that's what I got I feel like I would come back to the podcast as a different man and not for the better I don't imagine it's for the better it might break me that would break me yeah I think that um I think that it's very interesting the more and more we're watching the shows side by side I do still think the US is a different show it even though it's the same format same castle it still feels different I think a lot of it comes down to Robby already pointed out the different fandoms the audiences that are watching this they're watching it for with a different lens so for example I do think that this season thus far is on track the US season is on track to be a very good season when all is set and done uh it can go sideways we don't know yet still good so far but I do think that for a lot of the audience when their favorite is gone they're gone they don't care how the rest of the game plays out whereas with the UK I think you are there because you'd met them all at evil and even times and you already have like a stake going in now the longer you stay in because you that's a really good relationship you're feeling yeah fans like and there are loyal fans of the franchise but it's sort of like when we talk about sports where you know people root for their local team and then okay oh my team is out I'm not watching the playoffs and I want to see I don't I don't need to see how it necessarily works out where if not if I'm a fan of the sport I'm gonna watch the finals no matter who's in the finals you could say that the trade is US is truly the mountain Boston off the traders rodeo it's there it's iconic you can't believe it's real but is it necessarily like the bull riding sport you know it's iconic yeah I'm really into I'm gonna say yes and and and and yeah little bit anyone know and I'm just teased the pal episode for the week with that because she does talk about her journey and enlightens us on mountain bustin with the thing I didn't know existed Annabelle anything else on your mind no I thought this UK season was thrilling it's my favorite winners of the UK franchise without a doubt I need to do we need to do our rewatch of the UK so that we can decide where they all sit overall because I remember UK two being fantastic but I also remember being a bit of a hater so like maybe this could be my favorite one overall who were you hating on Harry he's just not my cup of tea yes he's just not my kind of man Annabelle can I also share something I I don't know if I told you this over any of our messages but Annabelle had said and I believe this was on the podcast I'm pretty sure this was on the podcast and not in any of our conversation you said that hey you know who is the best person to play traitor you know who's the best traders player find a queer woman because you know what she's not going to fall for the BS of the charismatic good-looking guy who's gonna be there and I think that this was sort of like in the context of certainly of UK season two of a queer woman is going to be immune from the charms of some some bro that's used to getting all the attention from the ladies and also sometimes the other bros and I found Kristen Kish at the castle and I said to her you know Kristen I have a friend who told me the person who's gonna be who you should try to work with find a queer woman because she is going to not fall she seemed unimpressed she did not she wasn't like yes thank you thank you but I don't think she is the person who's leaving the charge you know who sucks caught in like I can't stand him okay and for the most party is pretty popular and you know what with the notable exception of lesbian former cops yes still the highest performing demographic in the traders globally and I will be covering in the office this season why are lesbians so good at the traders yeah maybe I need to get in touch with Kristen we can maybe put that little miscommunication onto the bridge she can understand where you were coming from and she can tell us yeah she yeah I don't know if it was a miscommunication I just she did not receive it and the way that I was hoping she would maybe I was being that was that offensive I don't know I don't know maybe maybe she thought that you were the handsome charismatic man she wasn't maybe she was like that's why I don't like you yeah I don't think she just like that I think she she I think she's nothing to me there was no no feeling one way or another okay that's so iconic yes all right well Annabelle of course I adore listening to you on any podcast that you're just I think one of the people who is just so smart so funny so interesting I feel like on any podcast I feel like that you have a gift of being able to come in and say something not because you think that that's what the audience wants to hear but it's because what you truly feel and I feel like that that's always such a refreshing thing to have in a podcaster where I feel like okay well like I think that this person is a truth teller because I think that you don't necessarily say things just because people will like this is what they want to hear the lack of filter between the brain and the mouth it's a blessing and a curse and thank you Rob I mean so much coming from someone I've listened to so much over the last 10 years feel free to shower me with compliments anytime I will continue to do so I'm Pooja you're all right as well it's been good seeing you yeah I'm poorly dressed I'm the second in command in the turret I I need to go on the show with crazy's what a great day it's been for me loveable beloved everybody would think you were a traitor yeah yeah consider this yeah you could have been and Robin I gonna be insanely salty about it yeah yeah yeah you're on the show but then like like it wasn't even like a good can like if I'm ever on the show and I can't rely on my day ones to be rooting for me then we'll be rooting for you but it's just like in like deep down like they'll be like a little bit of play a hit it yes yeah just a little bit of like is this downfall coming yeah yes I'll be thrilled for you yeah I'll make you go full power into your problems and then play about just want to let you know like 20th place I got so much love from people so just like you know I think that you come in first place like you get money but then like some of the some of the like you'll get some love but also some people like can you believe this I think I think that ultimately as long as you're an honest person one guy I'm ruined I'm ruined I'm really like it went to his head I become unbearable yeah I think you weren't sit with us at events wrong because he made it past the halfway mark yeah I there's going to be a velvet rope and I'm going to be the one for the attention to separate us I don't think so did you make Sam can you just can you make sure Robin Annabelle don't talk to me too much just yeah I'm on excuse me I'm working on Rob as a podcast Rob Rosh that's my villain origin story I think you'll turn and join the opposite Rob network oh you know that's gonna be fun you have to practice with like a snake around you like a boa a literally a boa constrictor no amount of ego will ever change that stands for me I will still not want to do that I'm not all listen as long as you're not I truly feel bad for the Ian's of the world as long as you're not the first murdered I think happy you get you get all of the you get all you get around table you get the breakfast like you've got it all you got it all and I think that's really so if anyone's going on the show just hope you're not last last like first one out mm-hmm everything I feel that is a blessing last minute thought I was theorizing as I was discussing this with Philly the only surefire way to make sure you're not first murdered is to just go in there and start a massive fight with one of the housewives should just to avoid yeah just to avoid you know it and about that's not even a surefire thing because that's why Darynda got murdered in season three then she came back from the mission and got into a huge fight and so she pissed off off the drag queen yeah I'm just trying to pre-sabotage Pooja by giving him to fight with one of the older women in episode one you know but that's my favorite archetype jokes on you that ain't gonna happen absolutely not okay Pooja where else can we hear your stuff well you will not be hearing from me on television but you will be hearing me in your headphones always you can find me talking 90 day over on the 90 day pod myself and Leana I mentioned already but Annabelle was our first ever guests on the pal that's gonna be out this weekend so make sure you're checking that out and Rob obviously they already know this but you and I are covering the US season all the way through we're doing an extra content so if you're subscribed to this feed you're gonna find me yes over on patreon this week I dumped out my traders notebook yes try that including yes I'm more advised from Annabelle and I found that the starting cars were not particularly useful I think that that's one of the differences between the US and the other shows where I feel like that there's so many pre-existing relationships starting cars I think didn't matter that much I agree and I think who was I talking arguing with about this I think in any kind of celebrity or in celebrity versions if you've got that's no longer your first relationship yeah you know you were really smited by you starting starting car we called the last night starting car out completely Donna Mona Lisa Rob very gone gone gone gone but I didn't enjoy it was like the big brother was the first car curse for you oh snap it was the first car curse don't be the first car number one now if I ever went on and I noticed where the first car I got fake fake an emergency like I need to peak and we stop on the side of the road please like let the others go ahead of us I really need to use the bathroom yeah all right this was so fun thank you so much for listening everybody take care have a good one bye bye