Can Our Marriage Survive My Husband’s Porn Addiction?

This is an ad for BetterHelp. May is Mental Health Awareness Month and the stress you keep pushing down is showing up in your relationships and your health. If you need to talk to a licensed therapist make today the day. Go to betterhelp.com slash D'Aloni for 10% off. On our anniversary this last year he confessed that he has been dealing with a porn addiction essentially over the course of our entire marriage. Where does he get the word addiction from? I hear that word thrown around a lot. I didn't really ask a whole lot of questions. What up? What up? What up? This is John with the Dr. John D'Aloni show. Coming to you live from Nashville, Tennessee. Taking calls from real people going through real struggles. I've been out on the road getting to meet some of you all. We did a Ramsey show live in where were we? I was in Denver. I don't even know. I was like in four states in three days or something. Denver, speaking in California. I love being out on the road and seeing you all. It's so great to meet you all. Shake your hands. The work you all are doing in your homes and in your lives is so amazing. Thank you all for coming out to live events. Thank you for coming to comedy shows. Thank you for staying after and telling me about all the amazing changes you're making in your lives. It's so encouraging and exciting. I'm proud of you. I'm proud to know there are real people out there making changes because at the end of the day we can't rely on any of the madness. Any of the people like elected, like the changes in our society are going to come from us in our homes and in our own neighborhoods. So just thank you all so much for showing up time and time again. Let's go out and stay here. We're not going to go anywhere. We're going to stay right here in Nashville, Tennessee and talk to Teresa. Hey, Teresa, what's up? Hi. Good morning. Wow. Suddenly, so nervous. I know everyone says that, but gosh. No, it's all good. I've got this Tennessee allergies, man, and I don't usually get allergies. I'm getting crushed. So we're all good. It's perfect this year. We're all good together. What's up? Okay. So my question is, I guess a little bit of backstory. So my husband and I have been married for six years. Lots of crazy stuff has happened over those six years. And on our anniversary this last year, we were just talking through some things. Basically, like, how can we make our marriage better? Like who do we want to be going forward? All that kind of good stuff. And at that time, he confessed that he has been dealing with a porn addiction, essentially over the course of our entire marriage. And that obviously is pretty hard to hear. And I realized that I don't have any tools for dealing with something like that. I don't know how to move forward and actually build trust back with him and trust that he's taking care of what he needs to take care of because he hasn't changed anything from what I can see, if that makes sense. And his reasoning is that basically now that he's told me and now that it's out in the open, that's going to be enough for him to basically just kick it forever. And I don't really believe that. And it's really hard for me to kind of just move forward and just trust, like I said, just trust him. I guess that's it. And go ahead. Where does he get the word addiction from? I hear that word thrown around a lot. I didn't really ask a whole lot of questions. I think just the fact that he just kept going back to it and a big part. So we're Christians, so it's like a big discrepancy in our faith for him to be doing that. Well, I've got a load of friends who are not Christians who recognize pornography is not it's destructive in their marriages too. Right. So I mean, I honor that it's part of your faith too, but it's just not good period. Right. Right. How did you? How did you respond? I said, thank you for telling me that. I so I do. I personally have dealt with similar struggles when I was a teenager. I was exposed relatively early. And I know that it's not something that he did. It's not something he's doing to hurt me. It's, you know, it's a bad habit that he's built up over the years. It's a stressing, like a stress coping. And and I know those things in my brain. I did ask him to make a few changes. That I would be able to see and like that would help me be able to like see his physical like commitment. Like what? Unfortunately. So I wanted him to. Start spending more time with physical friends. He has a lot of friends that he. He. Games with and talks with virtually, but he does not have a community close to him. OK. And let's go. Also, let's go one step further. I mean, one step. OK. Not further. Let's go one step. Much more simple. OK. Because you went right to some really core issues. And I want to go like to some more immediate solutions like I want you off the screens. I want us to invest in a in a filter for the for our home. OK. Right. Like I did talk to him about that. OK. And so part of the issue is that he the screen is just part of his work. He's an IT guy. So there's that we did remove the screen time from our home. We've not got a filter set up. I guess that's part of something that I'm struggling with. Is that like I just kind of have to trust him to do all that because he's the one that handles all of the all of the digital stuff in our home. Well, yes. And. So what the question you asked me originally is how do I trust him again? How do we rebuild trust? Yeah. And part of rebuilding trust is going to be you. Knowing learning what you don't know. OK. And part of rebuilding trust is not. A big cathartic moment like, hey, I've been struggling with this thing that I don't want to be a part of. Right. And. Then just moving on and not saying anything. And so having regular check ins. Where are we on this? OK. You being clear about what does reestablishing trust look like. OK. What must be true? What do I want to have in place so that I feel comfortable? And yes, there is a part where like he works in IT. He lives on a computer screen from eight to five. Right. That's his job. Does he work from home too? Yes. OK. At times. So it's being honest about these things. And and not being afraid of going back and having one conversation. And I mean, never having another conversation about it. Because the trust you're looking for is can we continue to have open dialogue about this stuff? If I tell you I'm uncomfortable. Am I not safe in a physical sense? Right. But am I safe enough to put something on the table and he's not going to throw a temper tantrum? He's not going to be like, dude, I'm thinking he's going to honor the fact. I violated our trust. Right. I lied to you for six years. Right. And so that that's the level of trust we're looking at. Not not just is he not looking at X, Y or Z on the computer. Right. It's can I tell you that I'm sensing distance in you again? I am starting to notice you're flipping the laptop screen down or flipping your phone over more now. Do you all have the ability to have those kind of conversations or does he shut you down? He's actually real like we have really open communication. Sometimes a little more open than I would like, honestly. What does that mean? But well, he. Now that it's out in the open, he doesn't have anything to hide. So basically any time he ends up looking at it, then he comes to me and tells me about it. Yeah. Which is a very I don't like that at all. No, he's just rubbing your nose in it. Yeah, that's what it feels like to me. And I'm noticing that. Like I don't want to talk to him about things that are bothering me because I'm waiting for him to. Kind of. Follow up on the things that we talked about before, like I said, like I did lay out like, hey, these are some things that I would really like you to do. Like it would make me feel safe for you to. What do X, Y, Z, you know. And he just is still not doing them. So I don't want to keep adding things on to it because. No, no, no. No, no, no. Like. You put up a boundary. And by the way, boundaries are not ways to cut each other off. There are ways to make sure we stay in relationship together. And he tested those and they didn't hold. OK, they weren't real. OK, and for some reason, and I'm sure there's I mean, we could talk for probably hours, but you're more worried about making sure he's not bothered. Then you are worried about. How unsafe you feel in an. In a marriage that you don't trust your spouse. I just don't want him to go back to shutting down because that's kind of been our pattern in the past is that. When when he is overwhelmed and stressed out, and we are in a very stressful season, like we just moved with a toddler, like it's crazy, right? And I kind of feel like what's happening is like I feel like. The warden or something like I feel like I am just constantly having to stay on top of him and I want us to be able to work together towards. Just I'm not going to say like fixing him, but like helping him get to the root of like what's going on so that he is. He's just like healthy and whole and not like not in a. Like I know he was miserable for a long, long time. And I don't want him to go back to that, which and I don't have very good tools for approaching that because then what happens with me is then I get frustrated because I feel like I feel like I've been very clear about, Hey, these are some things that are important to me and I'd like you to do them. And you say that you love me. So why are we not moving in that direction? I want to be able to support him to be successful. Yeah. And man, this is the hardest thing I can. Almost the hardest thing I ever tell somebody. You can't control him. And, and, and you're desperately trying to. And if you've listened to my show more than one call, you know, I say this with freak with great frequency behaviors of language. And he's telling you through his actions, I don't care what you think makes you safe. I don't care what you think would reconnect us. I'm not really interested in building a new marriage. I was interested in not feeling guilty. So I took all the bricks out of my backpack and dumped them on you. Right. And that, that's the depth. And unless you own that, you're going to run around playing whack-a-mole with his feelings and your feelings, and you're going to get burned out and overwhelmed and exhausted. And then like you mentioned, it comes out in like it all gets bottled up and like shaking a two liter bottle. You blow up on him and then he goes, see, I told you, and then he shuts down and goes to shame spiral. And where does he go? Right back to point. Like, you see how this stuff just loops? Yeah. Yeah. And so it's you being able to say, I can't control him. But as for me, here's what's going to be true. And I totally get you want to be the warden. So I would put down the warden hat, the keys, the baton, all that stuff. And ask yourself, what am I going to do? Okay. Okay. And that might be you looking at him and saying, I don't ever want to hear about this, like it's not okay for you to come just dump this on me. Because you're not doing the work that you said you were going to do. Right. But this is you using I statements. I said these things. I told you would make me feel safe. You've said through word and action, I don't care how you feel. And the story I'm making up about this is you don't care about me at all. You care about yourself. You care about not feeling bad. You don't care about being whole. And here's, here's the thing that I'll be pissed off on your behalf. Okay. You have felt his not being well for six years. And you have tried to take it on and solve it. Right? Yeah. You've tried to ask yourself what, like, what can I do in the bedroom to spice things up? What can I do out of the bedroom to spice things up? What can I do? You've been trying for a long time thinking you're the problem. And I'm mad for you. Because this is what dishonesty. This is what keeping secrets in a marriage does is the other side of the other spouse knows you can feel your spouse isn't okay. Yeah. And so you go to try to solve it. And the worst feeling in the world is knowing I can only control me. You can only control you. And that's where a level of, you've heard me say this before and it's really dramatic. Okay. But do you have an or what statement? What I mean by that is, is there like ask yourself and do this by yourself or do it with a counselor, but ask yourself, is there a point when I leave? And if not, I'm not going to leave. Then I'm going to stay. And so what must be true for me to stay here? You have kids? Yeah. Yeah, we got a two year old. Okay. And so have that conversation with yourself and then be honest and be a person of show up in your marriage who you want to be. I'm not going to be afraid to say, I don't want this trash in my house. I'm not going to be afraid to say, I'm not going to be, I'm not, this isn't a jail and I'm not the warden. I'm not going to be afraid to like, I see you and I know you and I celebrate you when I can. How do you want me to celebrate you? And I'm going to challenge you because I love you and you're my spouse, you're my husband. Yeah. Right. And if you can't hear challenges, if you won't let me be known and not known as in, who I screwed up again today, dump all the trash on the table. Right. That's not, that's not being known. That's just rubbing your nose in it. I've seen it be really effective when people go first. Okay. I have handled all of this chaos by being demanding, by being mean, by trying to grab hold of everything I could grab hold of and try to be a perfectionist. I'm just putting words out there. I don't know what's actually true in your home, but, but, but all of that. Okay. So own. I've, I, I closed, I put one of those little plastic things that you get at Lowe's or Home Depot. I, I, I put one of the plastic things in the plug and then I've kind of gotten onto you for not connecting with me. I got to. Okay. So go first. And then say, and you came to me with this big challenge. One of the ways you're dealing with stress, I'm dealing with stress is trying to be perfect and I'm blaming you for everything that's not perfect. And you've tried to seek some sort of off ramp with pornography. Both of us have to clear the deck here. And by the way, yes, there's a context. Yes, I understand why he uses pornography just as a way to like anti like stress, right? Like it's an easy out, right? Yeah. But every time he clicks on a site, he's making a choice. So it's both. Right. One of the biggest challenges I see with miscarriages and couples and I experienced this in my own house is people grieve differently. Yeah. And they grieve at different paces and in different ways. And then we get mad at the person for not grieving how we grieved and one person usually grieves really big and one person just shuts up. Yeah. Okay. This is the level of depth. And then moving forward saying, how can I love you well? And him saying, how can I love you well? Okay. And you being really open and clear about what that means. Okay. Okay. But if you're walking around your house with your head down, like you've messed this thing up and you're also walking around your house with, I don't want this, I don't want pornography in my house. I don't want my husband using this as a default coping mechanism. And he's saying I need some help. And also he doesn't feel safe telling you like it just becomes this big dance and somebody has to say, I'm through dancing. I'm going to go first. I've contributed this and I'm sorry. I want it. I want to be different. How do we want this house to feel when we walk in every day? If behaviors of language, you said the words I feel, I feel, I feel a lot. Cool. Have those feelings and then what's the next right thing to do? I'm going to act differently. What does that look like? Is that I'm going to hug you right when I walk in the door? When I walk in the door, I want you to close all the screens and I want to have a 60 second hug and then go for a 10 minute walk. And I know we have a two year old. Two year old can come with us. And those are very basic things, but they're just tiny little bids for connection back to each other. Hang on the line here. I'm also going to send you the together app for a year for free. We'll get you and your and your husband hooked up with it and it will give you a couple of, it will give you a daily strategy for coming back together. It's not going to solve this issue that you all have because you all have really disconnected yourselves from one another. And if he wants to get serious about getting help here in Nashville, man, there's some of the best essay programs in the country where you can go meet with some folks, but he's going to have to decide he wants to do that and you can't make him do that. But what you can say is, as for me in my house, here's my or what line. And so that's a lot, but y'all are worth that investment in that time. And if he wants to call me for some strategies for some tips, whatever, I would love to talk to him. Be great. But we're looking for how can we reconnect? How can we breathe life back into ourselves and in our marriage? How can we both be well so that we can get in this little secret world that we're going to create called marriage and do the same thing? Do this amazing and see and know and celebrate and challenge each other over and over again. Let's go to that depth. Thanks for calling sister. I'm really, really grateful. When we come back, a man asks, should he stay in his marriage after his wife got pregnant with an affair partner? Yikes. It's time to talk about Helix mattresses. I've been sleeping on Helix mattresses for several years now and I love them. They've changed my life. I recommend Helix mattresses to all my friends, to my family. My entire immediate family sleeps on Helix mattresses. Why? 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Alright, let's go out to Toronto, Ontario and talk to Jeff with a J. Thank God. What's up, Jeff? How's it going, Dr. John? I'm good, my brother. What's up with you? Oh, just a little nervous. I'm thankful for you taking my call. So I guess I'll get right to my question. Yeah, let it rip. Should I stay with my wife after she had a one night stand and got pregnant? Can we rebuild our marriage? Tell me about it. What happened? We'll give you a bit of background on us. We've been together almost 20 years, married just about 18. We have a 17-year-old and a 6-year-old. When she was a teenager, she has PCOS, so she was told that she would probably have difficulty having children. So we weren't very careful in the beginning and our son was surprised, but a very good surprise. Right out of the gate, huh? Yeah, yeah. So we were engaged when we found out that we were pregnant. And then we tried for many years with no success, and then we ended up going through fertility treatments and doing IUI to have our 6-year-old. And then when she was about a year and a half, I got a vasectomy. Did everything that the doctor said went back, got tested, he said I'm in the clear. Fast forward to Christmas Day this year. My wife had some kidney pains, so we took her into the emergency room, and that was when we both found out that she was pregnant. Oh, man. So, I can't even wrap my head around that. It was something. Out of body experience. At first, my first thought was where are we going to put another child? We only have a three-bedroom house, and then I sat there staring at the clock for a couple minutes, and then I went, wait, I had a vasectomy. I'm laughing with you, not at you. I would have done the exact same thing, gone right into problem-solving mode, and then been like, wait a minute. Right. So, how have the conversations been since? Did she admit to having an affair? She did. She admitted it at the hospital. She said there was one time about a month and a half before that. Do you believe that story? On the roulette wheel of statistical probability. Uh-huh. I mean, that's, you're talking about like throwing a dart across a football field blindfolded and having it hit the bullseye, right? And they used protection, apparently. Just probably 100% they didn't. Yeah, probably. That's what I was told, but anyways. She, I do believe that it was a one-time thing. She has sworn on our children that it was... Has she shown you all the text messages and all the... No. Okay. She got rid of all of that. Okay. So, one of my core things is, I don't believe people who aren't believable. Right. If somebody violates trust in such a significant, powerful way, and I'll even go one step further, embarrasses you in a public way like this. Right? There's a room full of nurses and doctors when you find this out, and you'll make eye contact, and she knows that you know, and you know that she knows that you know. Right. Like, that's a level of trust violation that's hard to even metabolize. It's hard to wrap your head around it. It is. And so, the next thing is, no, I promise, I promise, I don't care. I want to see it. Right. And then, if her first move is to delete everything, then again, you get what I'm saying? Mm-hmm, I do. Yeah. So, is she keeping this baby? Well, that's another point of contention, I guess. I assumed in the beginning that she would terminate the pregnancy so that we could continue with our marriage, but she was raised in the church, her family is religious, and she has some family members who have had difficulties getting pregnant and have had to adopt. So, she said that she did not want to terminate the pregnancy, but that adoption was on the table, and I said that I was perfectly fine with that. But we're at 23, 24 weeks now, and there haven't been any adoption agencies contacted. So, I just don't know whether she can actually go through with it, and if she does, will there be too much resentment that we can move forward happily? So, it's easy in this moment, brother, to focus on the big thing, right? The big affair. If somebody comes and says, hey, can me and my wife, can me and my husband rebuild our marriage after an affair? My answer is 100% of the time, yes, you can. You're not just dealing with an affair. You're not just dealing with a kid as a result of an affair. You're dealing with somebody who refuses to not be honest with you, and you cannot under any circumstances rebuild anything on a foundation that does not include 100% safety and trust. Right? And so, what you have is a wife who wants to have all of it. She wants to keep her 20-year marriage to a safe, trustworthy guy. She wants to make up whatever story she wants to make up. She wants to sleep with whoever she wants to sleep with. She wants to have a kid, and I honor her keeping the pregnancy. I like that. It's the choice I would have made, but it's not my choice to make, but I'm glad she's making that choice. But I think you know in your heart of hearts that it's never going to give that baby up for adoption. And here's the harrowing thing. I just told the last caller this. I'll tell you this. You can't do anything other than control you. Right. And so, the question you have to ask is not what is she doing? What's she going to do? Why is she going to do it? The question you have to ask yourself is, am I going to stay in this marriage? And if I am, here's what must be true. Okay. And then she gets to decide whether she does that or not. Right. This is the good old fashioned not by your hand, but in your lap. I didn't want this. I didn't plan this, but boom. This tornado just hit down in the middle of my house, and I have a choice to make now. I'm not going to take the insurance check and walk away or am I going to rebuild this thing? My concerns for you is there doesn't appear to be transparency and honesty. Like, I wonder about that. I don't, but I don't think you do. I think you know, brother. Yeah. My fear is for you. If you actually like inhaled fully the amount of dishonesty that's been in your life the last few years, it would suffocate you. Yeah. And these rarely happen in a vacuum. Where are other places she's not honest with you? Um, I'm thinking of time. I'm thinking of finances. I'm thinking of where were you last night? Oh, I was with someone. So like, is it one of those things where like, it's kind of like watching the usual suspects when suddenly you look backwards after the end of the movie. Right. Right. Like, you know, like, you know, you're not going to get anywhere. Yeah. No, she, uh, she's at home most of the time when she's not working. How do you know? Um, I, well, when I'm home, she's home. I guess through the day when I'm at work, I don't know 100%. Um, financially, I take care of everything. So there's not really any secrecy to be had there. Do you know that for sure? I guess not 100%. No, I wouldn't have a job if there wasn't a lot of people with secret credit cards and secret loans and secret bank accounts. Right. And that's usually how folks find out about affairs is they find text messages and they go get information, they go get data and there's hotel stays, there's restaurants, there's all sorts of expenses from this other account. I didn't even know existed. And that's like when somebody has an affair, one of the first things I tell them to do is pull the bank records and pull each other's credit report. Right. I want to see what else is out there. Okay. And at least in this case, the first thing your wife did is went and deleted everything. Well, I don't know if she deleted it right away. Um, she kind of had a falling out with the father. They were kind of talking in the beginning just about what was going to happen with the baby. And then he made a ridiculous request and she told him that she never wanted to talk to him again and deleted his number and all that. But it was. So brother, just as a guy who's done this a long time that, that's not passing my smell test. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I can't, I can't own for you whether you should or shouldn't stay. Right. That's a call you got to make. Do you want to have a 17 or 18 year old, a six year old and a newborn? You get to decide that. Do you want to? Not at 50 years old. I don't. Okay. If that's the case, then I would tell you don't belabor the point. And also know this splitting things up at 50. I don't know what the laws are in Toronto, but splitting your assets up, having to sell your house and move, getting to see your six year old once every other week or whatever. I don't know what that looks like either. Right. And again, a bomb has gone off in your life. Yes, it has. And you're like me. The first thing you want to do is look up to the clock and begin thinking, okay, how are we going to rearrange this room? I need you to fully digest everything you knew is over. And the question is, am I going to rebuild this thing or am I going to deal in the aftermath of walking away from this thing? But this thing as it was is over. Right. Should I set a date that she needs to start the adoption process by or? You decide. You officially separate. You decide what must be true for you. What's the best way to handle that? Have you made it up in your mind? If she keeps this baby, you're going to leave. If we're starting to get down to the wire as it is, we're over halfway. No, no, no. Listen to me. If she says, looks at you across the table and says, I'm keeping this baby. Are you divorcing your wife? Yes. Okay. You need to tell her that clearly. And I have. And she keeps having this fantasy that she hopes it's mine and that we can keep it and raise it. And I said, it's not mine. We know that. I don't think we know much of anything right now. No, it's true. Because I got to say, I mean, I got to say a one night stand with protection, probably statistically speaking is about the same as if one of your guys made it through the gauntlet, the vasectomy gauntlet, right? Maybe. Right. Maybe you got a trooper in there that just like made the long journey. As you never know. I have offered to do a prenatal paternity test to put her mind 100% at ease. And I brought that up three or four weeks ago and she's kind of dragged her feet on that. And she needs to find a private lab where she can have blood taken and where we are locally, there isn't anything that we can find. So we just have to track that down. But she's dragging her feet on that. So I don't think it should be up to me to set that up. Well, that kind of attitude isn't helpful. What's helpful here is you saying what you're going to do next. Right. Okay. And just being very clear. And I think a prenatal paternity test makes the most sense here. I think so. And again, this is going to impact you in such a major way. Emotionally, physically, financially. It's going to devastate your life. Right. And so I would want to be a part of getting any and all information I could. Right. I know you're still hurt from the affair. I know that it's a big, all that. If you find out this baby is yours, what do you do next? Then we keep it and raise it. Okay. But you still have a marriage to rebuild. Yes. With somebody that you don't trust and has proven untrustworthy. Right. So if this baby happens to be yours, you're not in the clear all of a sudden. No. No. But if you have- We definitely have to rebuild that trust. Yes. And so I think it's you taking some time with a pen and a paper. What must be true here? What am I going to do next? And then making sure she has that very clear. Okay. And yeah, probably dates would be helpful if that's what- Because I don't want you melting a seven and eight and nine month pregnant woman either. Right. Right. Yeah. And every day you see her and it becomes this under- Like giving her clarity is kindness. Because she's still a pregnant woman, right? Forget the fact that she broke your heart. We're going to always honor pregnant women, right? Always. And so here is as clear as I can be with you. And I'm going to leave, you're welcome to stay here. You're not welcome to stay. Like be as clear. Right? So that she knows, man, I need to find a place to live. Or my husband's going to be putting the house on the market and getting his own apartment. And like you get what I'm saying? Yep. Yep. It's just you getting as clear as you can on some of these things. And what an absolute total, total disaster mess. My gut tells me she wants you to see that baby and hope she'll fall in love with that baby. And in her mind, things can just go back to the way they were. And there's not going back to the way things were. There's building something new. And so yeah, the most clarity and like if you're resolved on some issues, be really clear about those and then you can only start making your plans moving forward. And again, treat everybody with dignity and respect and honor, even if they don't treat you with the same. At the end of the day, retribution gets just ends in ash. And this, your wife will continue to be the mother of two of your other kids. And so we're going to treat her with that level of dignity and respect, even if she's the one who pulled the grenade on your house. Man, I hate that you found yourself here, brother. Thanks for the call, man. Call anytime if I can help. Yeah, not a clear, easy path out of this one. It's a mess if you go right and it's a mess if you go left and it's a mess if you go straight ahead. So, busting is to you, brother. We come back, a woman asked how to know if she's ready to take out her breast implants. I seem like the logical guy to ask that question. We'll be right back. Most of the stuff on supplement shelves at your local grocery store is garbage. They're shiny labels with zero substance. I've never played that game. I'm not playing that game now. And neither is Thorne. I've been taking Thorne supplements for years, way before I had a show. Because when it comes to my mind and my body, I don't mess around. I use Thorne. I use them for sleep, for performance, and for keeping my brain and my body on track. Whether you're a serious athlete, a mom on the go, or a dad just trying to show up for his family, you deserve the best. And when it comes to supplements, I want proof, not junk and hype. Most companies outsource production and skimp on testing, not Thorne. They make every product with evidence, not spin at their world-class facility in South Carolina. 35% of their employees work in quality control. And Thorne rejects 15% of raw materials because good enough isn't good enough for Thorne. It's got to be excellent. That's why pro athletes, Olympic teams, and more than 60,000 doctors trust Thorne. And that's why I trust him too. Stop guessing what's going into your body and take what it actually needs. And nothing that it doesn't. Go to thorne.com slash the letter U slash DELONI and get 25% off your entire order when you create an account. That's T-H-O-R-N-E, Thorne.com slash the letter U slash DELONI. Go get started being healthy. All right, Reno, Nevada. Reno 911. Let's talk to Ann. Hey, Ann, what's up? Hi, John. It's an honor and a privilege to speak with you today. Thanks for taking my call. It's an honor to talk to you. Thank you. What's up? So, I've historically had a very demeaning and self-critical inner voice. And so I'm wondering how do I know if I've truly silenced her with my self-improvement journey over the last two and a half years so that I can proceed with permanently removing my breast implants because I expect there will be aesthetic consequences from that that she would criticize. When did you get breast implants? So, I got them at 22 right when I graduated college. So, I only spent maybe 10 years of my adolescent and young adult life without them. And then I spent 27 years with them. I'm 49 now. Okay. So, as soon as I had a little bit of money graduating from college, that's when I did it. Yeah. Are you glad that you did it? Was it a good decision for you at 22? No. It solved the problem at 22. My inner voice was, as I said, very critical. I was relentlessly bullied in middle school and high school, felt inadequate in intimate relationships. And rather than trying to solve the problem internally or feeling comfortable with myself working on me, I turned to medications or alcohol or things to numb myself for my sense of inadequacies and silence that inner voice. And then as soon as I had money, I got them, solved that problem. I went ahead with my life and looking back, I regret it. I certainly regret it for the physical consequences. They're painful. They impact my health journey. I don't think they're a good idea to have anymore. And I don't want to spend money on them anymore anyway. So, I want them gone. I wish I had never gotten them. But the voice that I've quieted over the last couple of years doing all my self-improvement has really been quiet. She's been very quiet, but I don't think she's had much to criticize. Yeah. What is... Do you have any diagnostics? No. No. Okay. I have never seen somebody successfully outrun a critical inner voice. Mm-hmm. And so, I've never seen anybody successfully bow to their inner voice or try to outwork their inner voice or try to prove their inner voice wrong. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And so, the only way I've seen people overcome that inner voice, there's the CBT angle, which is to kind of go to war with it, to constantly write down what it's saying and challenge those things. Is it true? And there's the act, the ACT. It's not called ACT, but that's just what I call it. Which is, hey, there's a table of voices in my life, and this voice is just going to run their mouth all the time. And I just know that. Kind of like a boss that just kind of always has an opinion on everything. But they're otherwise, they're a good person, and they try to keep the business going. It's fine. But trying to move your life around to avoid that voice is, I've never seen that be successful. In fact, I've seen people like you say, I got 20 years of regret. And so, if you have done really extensive work on yourself, trauma healing, taking care of being a good steward of your body, feeling good at, you're saying you're late 40s? I'm 49. I stopped drinking two and a half years ago. I've doubled down on gym work, healthy food choices. I've strengthened my marriage. The voice that would criticize me, oh, you drank again. See what, you know, I shouldn't have done that. Don't let anyone know. You know, she's quiet because I don't drink anymore. Who is she? Who is she? She's me. She's not. She's not you. She's a conglomeration of voices you've heard over your life. Who are they? I guess possibly my mother was critical of me needing to do the best, be the best, not stop the thing. Classically trained violinist can't quit that. Has to go to an excellent college, can't stop that. Who told you you were beautiful when you were young? My father did. And I didn't have boyfriends being critical, growing up. They accepted me for the figure that I had. So they didn't criticize me. Maybe the bullying was a little much as an adolescent. Who bullied you? Kids at school about my figure. So that's specifically. So it seems like I would complain to you that my inner voice was loud about things that I truly thought I wasn't doing right. I shouldn't have been drinking. I shouldn't have been neglecting my body. I shouldn't have been critical of my marriage and not focusing on rebuilding with my husband after various things happened. So those things I fixed in the last two and a half years. And so I'm just trying to, I do plan on removing my implants permanently. And I know there will be a bit of aesthetic consequences to that, which I don't exactly expect. Will bother me. I don't have other plastic surgery. They do work together. They do work together. So I'm okay to look a little bit different or age, that sort of thing. So if the voice comes back, I just want to know how to help deal with her, because that isn't a thing I can change. Like I had changed the other things, like stopping drinking and taking better care of myself and healthier diet and focusing on my marriage. All the things you're telling me, have you ever heard me, I've mentioned it several times over the years on the show, about a conversation I had with Sal DiStefano? Have you ever heard me talk about that? I don't recall the name. Okay, so he is a part of a group, Sal and Justin and Adam and Doug, a part of a group called Mind Pump. And they're trainers out of San Jose, California, that got so sick with the workout training industry that they started a show. They're one of the first podcasts back in the day, and they're amazing husbands, dads, they're just good guys, but they're also really knowledgeable. And they become friends of mine over the years. And I had a personal conversation with Sal one time that literally had a before and after it changed my life. Okay, and I'll pass it along to you here. I've had body dysmorphia issues my whole life. With a wife who was like, what are you talking about? You're in your 40s and you have a six pack, what are you talking about? I'm like, yeah, you don't understand, right? And that little voice never shut up. It never stopped. You shouldn't have eaten that. You should have worked out more. I can't believe you didn't do, like I could have an injury, right? And be like, well, I can't believe you wimped out, right? Like these voices never stopped. And I was talking to Sal about it, and he said this, if you go to the gym every day, because you think you're a piece of crap, because you think this is what you should do, this is what you have to do, this is what you get, because you're overweight, you're not as healthy as you should have been. You ate this food last week and you should have, he said 100% of the time, A, you'll quit, B, you'll ping pong back and forth and see those voices will never shut up. But if you go to the gym every morning because you believe in your guts that you're worth an hour of feeling great, that you want to be the best steward of your body so that you can be the best spouse you can be, be the best coworker, you can be the best neighbor, you can be the best parent. He said, dude, it's a posture of generosity, of stewardship. You'll do that for the rest of your life because it's awesome. And here's the thing that I want you to hear. The end result is I'm still going to the gym, but the baggage I'm carrying with me into the gym is completely different. Now I bust into the gym with a smile on my face because I get to. And if you fix your marriage and if you, I don't even like using the word fix as though it's a broken car and we're just going to change the hoses and the oil and it's going to be fine. But if you decided I'm going to reinvest in this, in my marriage and I get to choose whether this thing is awesome or it's crappy, I'm going to choose awesome. If you decided like, man, I really want to be a good steward of my body. Those voices, they're still going to be there, but they don't get a vote anymore. Because the vote that matters is you at the head of the table saying, we get to do all this cool stuff. Yeah. You get what I'm saying? So the actions then of themselves don't change as much. My fear is you've done a ton of work. I'm sorry. I would say that the voice has quieted down because I did the work. I didn't do the work to quiet down the. Perfect. Okay. Can I ask you? I got function lab work. I got a WUK band. I focused on the metrics because I'm worth living. I want, I'm a bicentennial baby. I want to make it to a hundred and they ask me what's my secret. And to do that, I have to do the hard work. I'm worth it. I raised a child who's in college now and I was hyper focused on him and a husband who had an illness for a while and I didn't take care of me, but I'm worth it. I have a long day at work now. And the last thing I want to do is go to the gym, but I know if I go, I will feel better and calmer and I'm worth that. So I leave, I don't make dinner for the boys if I can't. And I just, I go do my thing because I, I have made the switch. I would say in the last two and a half years to make myself my priority in all the things and so the voice has quieted as a result of that. Okay. But I'm just hoping I want you to take it one step further. Okay. We do this stuff. We become the best version of ourselves so that, and this is controversial. And this is, I think this is a curse of our age that you and I are because I'm similar. I'm almost as old as you. Okay. Similar age. We do all of this stuff, not so we can become a lighthouse shining on a hill by ourselves. We do this, we become the best version of ourselves so that we can give ourselves fully away. Right. The best version of ourselves to our spouses, to our kids, to our neighbors. Right. And so we do this stuff. We go to the gym. We say no to things. We have friends. We go have a blast. We quit drinking. We do all this stuff, not in and of itself, but so that we can then reconnect all over the place as full-hole selves. And so here's a challenging exercise I want you to do with me real quick. Okay. Close your eyes. Okay. And I want you to imagine you've gone back to the doctor after your surgery for the last time and they've taken all the bandages off and you're healed. And I want you to have your eyes are closed and you're not wearing a shirt and you're standing in front of your husband, the man you've been with for two decades or more. What does his face say? Not his words, but what does his face say? His face says he loves me. Okay. He accepts me. And I can picture him sort of tilting his head like, I'm sorry that you're sorry, but I'm sorry. I'm not sorry. And then I love you. And let's go for a walk or plan a trip. Let's move on. That's pretty dismissive. Yeah, I brought this question to my husband because there's only a few people I would want their opinion on. And he initially said, well, I like the girls. I don't want you to get rid of them, but whatever you want to do, you do. I don't care. It's you. You do you. And when I asked one further time, he said, I, you can't ask me that because I can't give you my opinion. I don't want you to make any decision based on me. And so I thought, well, I really need a neutral party who's experienced in helping people make the next right choice for themselves. So I want you to circle back to him and tell him you don't get to cop out. Mm hmm. Because the, and I want you to be honest about what you want to hear or not hear. Are you still going to think I'm beautiful? Are you still going to love me? Are you still going to want to sleep with me? Are you still going to be super excited to hold my hand out in public? Because those are the questions that have haunted you for years. Yeah. And I get the, the pickle he feels like he's in. Dude, I'm not, I don't, like, there's no way I can, of course he's going to say, I love him. Right. Of course he's going to say, right. And you get to internalize that as, oh, that means he doesn't think I'm pretty unless, or you get to know he's my goofball husband. And of course, right. But the real questions that you want to answer are. And that's why I don't ever believe in outsourcing beauty. Right. Beauty comes from the inside out. But there is something about being married to somebody looking across the room at them. And saying, is he going to go, it's fine. Put your shirt on. Let's go out and let's go out and eat. Or he's going to get that look and you know, the look I'm talking about where he's like, I don't care. This is happening right now. You give him saying. Yeah. And those are the questions I want you to ask him. Not that those things hinge on him. But I think those demons haunt you. Because I think you're worried that he's going to want to not look at you. Because you don't want to look at you. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. He's a difficult person to talk to. So I tried to draw things out of him and he, for whatever reason has, and we've been together 25 years and we've really focused back on each other in the last number of years. But I think that the outward things that troubled him, you know, or just choices I made drinking bothered him. Lack of taking a being a good steward of my body, as you say, bothered him those and and bothered me. And so I've really made those a habit and I've just reaped the benefits of that. And I believe myself to be a good employee, a good sister, a good friend, a good mother, a good wife. I'm very proud of myself and I love me. Good. And will you let you let yourself be loved? That's been hard. I've always had a couple accepting help. I know everything you're telling me is you've gotten really, really good at performing on stage. Yeah, I'm a good performer. And there's something about seeing and knowing and celebrating. I say that all the time about your spouse, your partner, right? But there's an equally hard side to that, which is, are you let yourself be seen? Do you let yourself be known? Do you let yourself be celebrated? And if you've been married to somebody for 25 years and the answers know to that, then he's wisely learned to put his head down. Yeah, I'd say maybe not. Nobody until this call knew that I had an inner voice that cursed at me and belittled me. Nobody knew that. So, you know, it would be a blessing to him. And this is going to sound nutty. A, you saying we've been working together for two and a half years to rebuild this thing and it's pretty amazing. There's some inner stuff I want to share with you. Can I tell you some of the things that the inner voice stuff I have been going on for a long time? And I'll probably say, yeah, I don't care. Go ahead. And I want you to write some of it down. You may blow his mind. And eventually you'll get to the questions of here's the things that haunt me. I'm afraid if you really see me, see me, see me, you're not going to think I'm pretty. You're not going to like me. If you really knew these voices in my head that alcohol quieted down, you're going to think I'm crazy and not want to be around me. And if you've been critical of him for 25 years, this, you might have to say something like this is where you reach across the table and grab my hand. This is when you stand up and come around here and hug me, right? Give him a path. He does need a path. I am working on that trying to be, I not expect him to read my mind, which I learned from you. I figured it was like Frida Kahlo saying if I had to ask for it, I guess I didn't want it anyway. No, no, no, no, no. But right. How, how wrong I was. So I'm working on that. So I'll continue that. So I think you getting to a place where you just say out loud what you just said to me, what you said to me is really powerful. I love me now. And now I'm going to road test that love by letting you see me and fully know me. And I'm going to give you some clear things that you can do to celebrate me. And I want to practice being seen and known. Are you still going to love me? Let him answer that. Oh, I'm not going to answer that. No, no, no, I need you to answer that. I expect I'm going to get the yes, of course. Of course. Yes. Of course I will. Of course. There's something. I guess I don't know if I believe that. There you go. And if you have to tell him, will you look me in the eye and hold my hand and say it? Okay. I want your body to have a lived experience of him staring into the depths of your spirit and saying. C cup, A cup, no cup, D cup. I love you. You're my wife. Scars, no scars. I love you. You're my wife. Yeah, I guess my last comment would be that I hear from others that he tells them I'm more or less his right or die, but he doesn't tell me that. Okay. And that's probably a learned experience. Either A, you can't hear it. And so he's learned to not say it. Or you dismiss him. Or he needs to roadmap. I need you to say to me that you love me. Okay. Well, good. This is some work for me to work on so that I can proceed with what I want to do for me. Yes. And my health and my future. I 100% support your, I will never live in your skin. So it's easy for me to sit on the outside. I think you should do the next right thing for your health. So yes, take these implants out and go live your, continue living this healthy journey. But I want you to shift the focus from I'm just living this journey so that I can be the best version of me with a period to I want to do this thing so I can be the best version of myself so that human beings were are wired and designed and evolved to serve. And if you don't have the weight of other people's responsibilities on your shoulders, your body spins out. Okay. I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you. Thank you. Cool. You've done a ton of amazing work. And now it's time to share that work. Let yourself be seen and known fully. You're awesome, Han. It's cool. You're cool. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. May is Mental Health Awareness Month and according to the National Institute of Mental Health, more than one in five U.S. adults experiences mental illness every year. And this number does not include all the other millions of people who are struggling with mental and emotional challenges of all types. Nearly half of the folks experiencing mental illness never get any help. And listen, these aren't just statistics. These are our friends, our neighbors, our family members. These numbers are you and me. And we're living in this nonstop, noise-filled world full of screens and comparisons and constant notifications. And our bodies are always on high alert. We're all more connected than ever, yet we're more anxious, lonely, and overwhelmed. This stress shows up everywhere in our relationships and our health. Listen, we are never meant to carry all of this alone and talking to someone can help. I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. Their therapists are fully licensed in the United States and they follow a strict code of conduct. You can message your therapist in schedule sessions right in the platform. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch anytime at no additional cost. Talk to someone. Go to BetterHelp.com slash Deloni to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloni. All right, we're back. Kelly, I want to tell you something cool. A Together app. I could use some cool news. You could use some cool news. Very much so. Together app. We now have an annual price that is significantly discounted. If you buy it all at once and you get it for the whole year. And here's why I love that. I now started doing that. I only have a couple of apps that I pay for and I buy the year in and that way I've spent that money and I got to use it. You know what I mean? Like it's, I've kind of forced my hand there, but it's got a pretty significant discount. Can you look it up real quick and see what it is? I don't have to look it up because I know. Oh, of course you do. Good job. So the monthly is $6.99. Okay. Equals up to a little over $83 a year. A year. If you do the yearly subscription, it is $49.99 per year for both spouses. Good gosh, dude. I didn't know they made it that inexpensive. Real cool. Well, she told me that before. That's too low, man. Oh, it's a great deal. And it's one time. It's for both of them. Yep. Both spouses. And it's one time. And again, it's a big savings. So if you're doing, you know, if you're already doing it, just go back in and change your. If your marriage is not worth 50 bucks a year. God bless you. God bless you. Call into our show. Call. Call into the show. All right. Love you guys. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. Be nice to each other.