Slayyyter

I think my biggest thing I wish for people is that even though this is my first album that I did sign to like a major. Which label are you on? Columbia and Records. Okay. Yeah. So it's been kind of a... Congrats. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. It's been really cool. I feel like I've had more... Like I've been able to do more with like my visuals and all these different things, but even with that, like I still have taken a very DIY approach to this album. It was always just like me and producer. I didn't really have any songwriters on anything. I was very... I directed all the music videos. I like... I don't want to have bad times. Every one that I know that I told I was talking to you was really excited. Really? Yeah. Oh my God, that makes me so happy. I always have like people around like cool young people that I check. Yeah. Like what's the vibe? Wow. I obviously know your music, but wasn't deep in the world. Yeah. You have a lot of love out there. Thank you. How does that feel? It feels really good. I'm like wondering, is it like gay guys that you're referring to? A lot of people said she's a gay icon. Yeah. Thank you. That was a reoccurring theme with you. Oh my gosh. Couple of people said total gay icon. Wow. Total gay icon. How does that feel? That feels good. I love that. I feel like when I was younger, I feel like that all the music I listened to was very much like the pop female champion by gay community type stuff. That's a good way of putting it. Yeah. Champion by the gay community. Champion. I loved even more alternative pop like Marine and the Diamonds and all of that. That was all my Tumblr, Lana, all of that. Yeah. Your Tumblr. Oh, I was a huge Tumblr girl. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had purple hair. I was really weird. I wasn't good at it, but I loved it. When did you start doing music? I think I started officially putting out my own songs in 2017 or 2018 maybe. I've always been kind of like musical or like I would try to make bedroom music for like a long time before that, but I didn't really put out like my first single as Slater until I think like 2017. Okay. Yeah. That's long enough. Yeah, it's been a long time. A long time. Yeah, I've been doing this I think for like. Creeping up on a decade. Yeah. Oh my God. A decade of your life. Yeah. Your young life. Yeah, which is crazy. I feel like every time I'm always like, I've been doing this for like four years and then I look into it and I'm like, oh, it's been way longer than that. It's almost 10. Yeah. I think next year will be 10 years. Damn. Oh my God. That's really good. Yeah, that is hard to do. It is. I am grateful for the kind of, you know, I feel like I'm not like the biggest artist, but like I've had kind of like a steady like cult following build for a couple of years. So I've been able to kind of sustain just like only doing music, which is fine. To find big. Like, you know, like I wouldn't, I don't have like a like billboard song or like I haven't had like a proper like mainstream breakthrough moment, but like I don't really like, no, if I want that, I feel like a lot of people gauge success with that kind of like, you know, that goalpost always like, you know, shifts around, but I feel like that's a really dumb way of gauging. Oh yeah. I mean, yeah, I totally agree. I feel like I don't mean dumb like I'm insulting people. I mean basic. Yeah. It's like, if you aren't in this thing, living the life of an artist and you were just like a basic person who isn't living in this like living that life, the charts would be a very basic indicator of that being said, we also celebrate when we do get it. For sure. It's an accomplishment. So I, when I say dumb, I don't, I feel like I have to backtrack and take a take out Dom and go, I don't know what I meant to say, but I think people remember us in a different way than it actually was. Yeah. We weren't like a big chart band. Like our records may be charted on their first week at the time, but like we didn't have, I don't think we ever had a number one song. Really? No. That's like, I don't know. I feel like I remember that. Yeah. That's what people, I always hear it all the time. Like, well, you know how that is. It's like actually. Culturally, like it was such a culturally, like you guys were like culturally massive. I think that's probably what translates to, well, they were huge, but what I got back about you was like this really positive, joyful, like culturally relevant answer. I'm more interested in that. Yeah. Like, wow, I do like her so much. And then like Jacob in there who I work with, who's, it's husband and him love you. Oh my gosh. So he was like really tickled. He got to meet you. He was like very happy. Oh my gosh. So that's what I look for across in my like world is like what artists do people go, you know what I mean? Like it's cool to see that because that to me is like music. Yeah. Versus like, oh my God, did you hear that at a number one last week? And no one says that. I don't know. I'm just saying. I know. I fully agree. I feel like kind of in the era of streaming too, there's a lot of like nameless and faceless huge hit songs where it's like, I've definitely heard the song. Couldn't tell you who sings it though. It's kind of just like this background, like algorithmic thing. So I feel like when things, when artists do kind of cut through and it's more about the whole world or like their personality or more about like their visuals tied in with the music and not just like this one singular thing. I always like that when I'm like listening to music or like finding new artists, but I feel like people have. Well, no one wants to say it. Yeah. Because the truth is, and I'm just saying it, I'm not, I don't care. AI is writing half of the songwriter session songs. These songwriters name one, I'm not hating on them. They're doing a job. It's a job. They're going. Now there are some songwriters who are artists. Yeah, for sure. And I know there's like a whole kind. There's like a style of different styles. And then there's guys who just want cuts. They're just getting cuts. They're like, got another cut, got another cut, got another cut. And that's another style too. By the way, that's like a, there's a place for that, but they're using AI to write melodies to give them tracks, to give them starts. And then they're taking it and they're like fixing it up. And then they're walking into a session with an artist who needs a song, maybe they're not as strong at writing and they're like selling this as their idea. Yeah. Black Mirror episode. But it's not, it's, it's really happening. It's real. It is real. It is right or wrong. They're getting the cuts. And so what has diminished pop music is a little bit of that algorithmic and AI and all that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. It doesn't mean it should exist. I don't know what it should. I don't, I know that if there's something that makes things easier and you get there faster and you learn how to use it with some smarts, you can really succeed with it. It doesn't matter how they got there because they got there. Yeah. At the same time, though, I do think that there's something of solace about it, which is probably what you're kind of talking about. It's like, there is something about it that like, I do think that you should have to say you used AI to. Yeah. Like a disclaimer. A disclaimer, like some part of this was you, AI was used in some part of the making of this. Yeah. So that we know nutritionally, like what's in our music. Yeah. You know what I mean? Even just videos on the internet. Sometimes I get fooled and I feel like crazy. I'll be like this video and then the people will be like, that's AI. And I'm like, is it really? And then I'm like, fuck. Like I didn't know. And then I feel like I'm like, I don't even know. It's getting really, I feel like with music though, I don't know why I can always kind of clock like AI ish. Yeah. I can tell when the vocal sound kind of off, the lyrics are always kind of weird. I'm not hating on it. I just want to know. Yeah. So I can look. So because I think we would look at it differently. Yeah. If we knew. I just like required. Yeah. I feel you. There should be. There should be a disclaimer. Definitely. Like your food. Yeah. Because you're putting it in your mind. Yeah. It's nutrition for your soul. There's like full on artists that are just AI. Yes. And like, I feel like people and labels are like really behind them and they're like all excited about it. And it's like, oh my gosh. That's so weird. It's free money. Yeah. Free money. You want some free money? That is so true. I never even thought about it. Just do it. Also it exists in like, it's not going away. It's only going to be more. So with AI, I don't have a position. It exists. So I acknowledge that it exists and people use it. But I don't know that it's wrong. I don't think it's wrong. I mean, I like robots for sure. Like really, I hate robots. They scare me. It was my wife. Really? He hates them. Oh my gosh. We're in this big standoff right now. But I want to get a robot. Like a real robot. A real robot. Oh my gosh. To do housework. What happens when you like wake up and it's standing over you and you're sleeping. It's like trying to take you out. I don't think it would do that. That's where my head goes. I immediately think of like those like I robot and like the movies where they like turn on the humans. Yeah. That's why whenever those like roving like Uber Eats carts like come down the street. I love those. I always am like very like respectful. Like when people talk shit to those, I'm like, don't talk shit to those because they'll flip and they'll like crows come after your ass. You know, like crows. Yeah. You know, crows have a very good memory and they remember who have done them wrong. What? And they tell the rest of the crows. They're vengeful. Yes. They would be. That's like that checks out for that kind of bird. Yeah. You know, that's what they say. Don't like shoot them off away. Don't try to hit them with your car or like when they're in the road, don't speed up. Yeah. This was a great start to the conversation. Yeah, I agree. Robots. Slater. Yeah. How did you get your name? Is that just like your your first name, your last name? No, my name's Catherine Grace. But I... That's a really like... Like, well, I don't know what you're going to say, but... It's a it's a regal name. Thank you. Yeah, my mom, I don't know. She really like wanted like the old, the old lady queen names for me and my sister. What did they call you growing up? Grace. Grace. Actually, yeah, I always went by my middle name. My mom, very much like I am. She's like so weird. She was like, I wanted you to be called Grace, but Grace Catherine sounded very strange. So I had to, it had to be Catherine Grace because I wanted Catherine in there. So it's like, it was a whole thing in school. Like I'd always be like, you know, St. Louis, Missouri. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. St. Louis, Missouri. And then, yeah, my artist name comes from, have you ever seen Dancy Confused? The Lady Catherine Grace of St. Louis, Missouri. Yeah. That's great. That sounds so much more like... It's very... Regal and classy when you say it like that. It's very Victorian. Yeah. And it kind of is, yeah. Yeah, era. 1912. Timeless, a timeless name. Late 1800s, early 1900s. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Thank you. Yeah. So they called you Grace. Yeah. I always went by Grace growing up and then, yeah, like around high school, I started to kind of like, like when I got like my Tumblr, like I started making music a little bit towards the end of high school. I loved the movie, Daisy Confused and that like Stoner character Slater who's like, catch a later man. I like just, I thought he was so cute and I wanted, I just love that word. Like Slater and it was like S-L-A-T-E-R at first. And then I added wise to get like my Instagram handle and like my Twitter handle because like Slater was taken, one Y was taken, two Ys was taken. And so then three was the lucky number. That's cool. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Slater is a cool name. But your real name is very cool. My daughter goes by her middle name. Oh, really? Good. Kate. Oh, nice. Yeah. My best friend's name is Kate. It's funny. Yeah. Catherine. Yeah. But you go by Grace. Yeah. Is your family still calling me Kathy? It's like a joke though. Like funny. Yeah. Which I feel like that, I feel like I need to like reserve that for like my like later in life. Yeah. Kathy, you know. Later on. Later on. Yeah. Yeah. Grace is cool though. And Slater is very cool with three Ys. Thank you. Yeah. Is there anything coming up that's important to you? Yeah. Yeah. I have an album coming out in like two weeks called Worst Girl in America. So that's kind of like. How did you get there with that name? So growing up, I think, I grew up in St. Louis. I feel like in my high school years, I hung out with like a lot of skater boys, which by the way, they all like freak out that I was on this podcast, I'm sure. They, big fans of yours obviously, but I grew up around all these skater boys and they had this like weird terminology thing where they would be like, if like they just be like, oh, most worst dude or like worst girl or like most turnt dude. Like they would always say like things like that. And I was naming my album. I just was thinking about like myself and what the songs are kind of about and feeling insecure in music and how that's kind of can be a term of endearment from friends or it can be kind of like a self-deprecation thing, like self-deprecating kind of term that you put on yourself. And yeah, it just felt like. Do you feel insecure in music sometimes? Oh, all the time. Really? Yeah. I feel like my upbringing and, you know, like. What was your upbringing? I grew up in St. Louis in the suburbs and my family didn't have a lot of money, but my dad was kind of like a Frank Gallagher kind of like drunk, like drug kind of guy. I don't really talk to him anymore, but my parents are divorced now, but I feel like growing up I went to Catholic school. Me and my sister went to Catholic school for free. So everyone in our grade was like pretty like wealthy, but we weren't. So it was almost kind of like gossip girl, like Jenny and Dan Humphrey situation. Yeah. I always just kind of felt like insecure about like that. Like I've always just kind of felt a little out of place, like in my surroundings. And I think in music, like I got like, I was like a hair salon receptionist and I got like plucked out of St. Louis, like right into this kind of job and lifestyle. And so, you know, like my first couple, like. How did you get plucked out? I just put my music on SoundCloud and it started to kind of, you know. Okay. So you're a self starter though. Okay. Wait, you just said a lot of things that I want to touch on. First was you got plucked out. Yeah. So you started putting music on your SoundCloud on your own. Yeah. Yeah. And then someone heard it and they like. On Twitter, people started to the gays actually gay Stan Twitter. They found it on Twitter. And my first song was this song called BFF with my collaborator Aisha Radhika. And she was like a really sick rapper and producer and pop artist. And we collabed on a couple of songs. And yeah, I think Stan Twitter just like ran with it and like it started to circulate. I'd be like working my hair salon receptionist job, like checking SoundCloud and like the plays would go up and then like Fader wrote about my song. And I'd be like, Oh my God, like what's going on? Yeah, that's exciting. This is so crazy. And my manager, who's still my manager now, he reached out to me and we have been working together ever since. But I feel like it felt like things kind of blew up really fast. And I quit my job and went from being like, like a St. Louis, like Townie, like bar trash to then doing like this as a career. And it's just like, I don't know. There's like no preparation for it. So I feel like, I feel like I've always been kind of like the girl who's too drunk at the party or like just like, I feel like I've always been like the odd. I feel like an oddball sometimes. Yeah. Were you too drunk at the party? Many times. Many times. I don't sit at events. I had no business doing that. Talking right now, you do not come across to be like someone who would get inebriated past the level with which they chose. That is excellent news that you. That's how I. That's how I perceive you sitting here with you. Thank you. And maybe I don't give that impression as much now. Like I'm 29 now. I feel like I've learned a lot. I've definitely slowed down. Like we all have our like party phases, but I I really don't like going out that much anymore. I feel kind of like a recluse almost. Like I I prefer like watching movies and like like working on stuff in my apartment or like sewing like clothes and like just doing little hobby things. Like I don't really like to. I don't like going out too much. I always feel like I'm like the most uncool person at the party. Anytime I like I just feel like I'm like taking a step. Just feel awkward. I don't know. I don't like it. I can relate to that. Yeah. So I think that's why I drink to overcompensate for that. Yeah. But like the very few times I've been invited to any kind of like celebrity ish or like any kind of like ritzy ish event I especially in the early days. Oh my God. I would just be like I would I would be nervous and then I would drink to a point where like shit would get so bad. Yeah. I said the things I've done that I did that too. Oh my God. Terrible. The other thing you said that I was really that really perked my ears up. Yeah. Then made me think was when you mentioned very briefly you you mentioned your dad. Yeah. Yeah. Have you talked about that a lot? No. I'm down to talk about anything with that. But I don't think I've ever really publicly talked much about him or like that whole you know relationship. Well it's hard. To especially is he still alive? He is. OK. He's I don't know his health is not great. He lives with my grandma somewhere I think in like Virginia which sounds so country. But yeah I'm from Maryland so Virginia is not fine. It is a very southern state. Yeah. He I think a couple of years ago started to have like a kidney issue where like I don't really know the details. Me and him have been kind of estranged for like even when him and my mom are still together. That sounds very similar to mine. Oh yeah. Very yeah that's strange. My mom and a parallel our lives. Yeah. That is that's crazy. Yeah. My parents were married in like a really bad like toxic marriage for a like pretty much my whole life and only very recently has my mom divorced him. But I even though she was separated from him she didn't divorce him. No they lived in the same house like he was like oh wow he lived downstairs. She lived upstairs. That's more like a cohabitation type thing. Yeah well she also she couldn't really afford to like get divorced so that was always like a big thing and like kind of part of the reason she and like you know we were so broken away were like he's like he's it's kind of funny like it's not like some big depressing thing like I kind of look at it through like a funny scope sometimes because he really is like a nut job. He's had like 50 jobs during my lifetime and each one is just like you cannot make this shit up. He was like a laze potato chip delivery man and he like hurt his back doing that and then he like worked for some like weird like he like repaired cracks in people's houses. He's just he's done like so many random jobs and he's struggled to get consistent. Yeah. And yeah. And he had his own like really bad things I think happened to him in his life like before my mom came along before all of that like he has like you know alcoholic like my grandparents were really big alcoholics like handle of pop off like every three days vibe like really like gnarly like and he had a really hard upbringing. He got into a car accident when he was in college that was really bad that like I don't know if I can really like say too much about it but like he just something really bad happened. I think that really scarred him for a really long time and he couldn't really like ever get it together in his life. I feel like he was like frozen in this like 24 year old like mentality where even growing up and being old he just couldn't quite like figure out how to like parent or like you know it was always he always like acted like a frat boy in a way it was like weird. OK so yeah it sounds tough. So he grew up in an unstable house with alcoholic parents which my dad did as well couldn't get consistent with anything it sounds like jobs relationships. And then also there's something you're saying like he's like he's immature. Super immature super immature. And he's your biological dad. Yeah. OK. And in your sister as well. Yeah. OK. So has kids probably tries to settle down with your mom in some way shape or form. Yeah. But can't seem to get momentum with that. And also you said he struggled with did he struggle with drinking and drugs. Oh yeah. OK. So he was also dealing with addiction issues. Yeah. OK. And he was just kind of like he was just kind of a shiced he was kind of shiced he like he would always be like getting into some shit he'd be in like some kind of like I think he started doing real estate and with my grandpa and then he like got his like license taken away. I'm not really sure why I was very young. He's getting himself into. Yeah. Trouble short term deal making and borrowing from this guy to pay that guy. And my god. OK. Yeah he got arrested outside of my sister's basketball game once and I remember all my god that's that's dramatic. Libby is that your dad and she was like what. No. Like it was like one of those things but it is traumatic but just like it's all like me and her. It's like it's just so fucking funny. Like I don't even it couldn't it sounds like a TV show. It really it's a tough way to grow up but I feel so separate from it now. But you know I feel like it definitely did a lot of damage to me and I was I was really angry at him for like pretty much my whole life. And I feel like as I've gotten older I've had a lot more forgiveness in my heart and realized that like you know he was a kid at one point who like had dreams and you know hopes for the future and I feel like he you know I feel a little more sorry than I do angry about it. Both things can be true. Yeah. And that's the nature. That's the complicated nature of life. Yeah. Is both things can be true. We can have compassion for someone who didn't have the support they needed. Yeah. They didn't get the love they needed. And we can be upset about the support we didn't get and the love we didn't get. And that's what I learned is I can respect and love my mom and dad for the for trying their best and just being people that they had very tough very tough lives. So as an adult who's worked who's done work and worked on myself I can look at them more therapeutically and go I can see a mile away where all your problems and troubles and you know your inconsistencies and your shortcomings and all your injuries I see a mile away where that came from. Doesn't change that I also suffered from your shit. Yeah. And then someone's got to do the work to heal to stop it. Yeah. Because what I don't want to do is do the same thing to my kids. Yeah. And like I think our generation these last 20 years like we all started working on ourselves because we kind of cracked that open. We were like I don't want to do that shit. It really can affect you or does it like affect a person for the rest of their life. I don't think people necessarily have to be like victims of something like that or like victims of an abusive parent or victims of or repeat the cycle of things. I feel like I you know I don't feel like a victim of my situation. I don't feel like I am going to repeat the cycle of things but it is something that in many different facets of life like from like little girl with like an abusive or like addict parent to to now it's like it affects so much. It affects you romantically. It affects how you have like conflict in your romantic partnerships or affects your friendships your relationships with people just like how you kind of like move through the world sometimes in ways that like doesn't necessarily have to do with like drinking or drugs even though sometimes it's affected me in those ways to those ways too. Well you're going to have a conflicted relationship with no matter what like no matter what I do think that like if you grew up with a parent who struggled with addiction you have a conflicted relationship no matter what with drugs and alcohol and you have to figure out like that. I also think sometimes it can be very genetic which is like I don't know if everyone always agrees with that but I feel like there's like an addictive kind of personality trait people have and it's kind of this scares like scares me a lot sometimes but it's like everyone's like one of their parents child. I am like my dad's child to a T. I've never liked people saying that but everyone's always like you know I have his personality I have this I have that I'm like a funny girl like he was always like Mr. Clown man in the room whatever like I feel like I'm very much similar to him and also with like the kind of needing of a instant gratification or like serotonin boost whether it's like impulsive purchases or whatever like he I'm just very similar to him so it's like one of those things where as an adult like I really try to get it together and not let kind of the things I saw become like my my like habits and my like the way that I act I guess in a way. It's interesting I've said this before on this show because we talk about this stuff I actually think there is a very thin line between obsession and addiction. Mm hmm. I think that creative people when not applying the creative energy to a constructive thing building something making something can very quickly go across the line. Yeah. To obsessive and addicting addiction behavior. Yeah. And I'm probably the same as you like if we had not found music and art and make something to make. Yeah. We could have easily gotten hooked on something else. Yeah. For sure. You know. Yeah. I feel very grateful to you know I switched to public school for high school and got into like choir and very like nerd at least loved singing and all of that. And I feel really grateful for that time period in my teen years because the big like I feel like everyone's high school has like a drug issue heroin was like huge at my school. So many people. It's crazy. There was like a CNN report about like St. Louis like death of like teenagers being like three times the national average in this like one pocket of my suburbs and it was always like wealthy well to do kids from like nice. It was really it was really a strange thing. It was like a really big thing at my school. I knew a ton of people. It like it was just it was such a crazy thing like kids were just like overdosing left and right. It was very weird. But I that like I never really like hooked into like that world. Like I would like smoke weed with my friends sometimes but I feel like I never took it farther. I would I would always get really nerdy about like my passions at that age. Like I feel like I loved painting and making clothes and singing and music. And I got really into different bands and really into different like rappers and all these kinds of things that I like kept myself out of trouble almost just by like having like you know a nerd like passion and hunger for creativity and being artistic and drawing and illustration and whatever it was. You know what I mean. It would sometimes would change. It would be fashion and be all these different things. But I just I feel like I was always chasing that. So what you're saying is so true. I feel like I was it's like if you don't find that thing to chase almost like a drug from like early on and you're like and you have damage from your family or whatever like it can get you can get into a bad situation. That's just a cycle. You know. Like what if life knew that we had to be in the first 18 years of our life right where we were to need what we needed to go out and do the things we were going to need to do. Absolutely. And and this is the thing about art. Do we make the art? Do we decide? Do we write the songs or do they come from something else through us? I don't know. But I do know that that art heals people. Art brings people together. Art makes people feel in times when they need to feel art comforts people art. And so as artists, we needed to suffer to feel that pain so that we could make something to help lots of people. And when I mean lots of people, any amount of people you help is enough to say that it was worth doing. If it was one person or 10 people or a hundred or a thousand or a million, it is enough to say that you did something for one person and that one person carried went forward. So all of it, there's like the butterfly effect type thing is is beyond what we could actually like quantify. Like we can put a number on it. We couldn't put a value on one person. You couldn't put a value on it because you don't know what that one person, that one life is going to do as it goes forward. The possibilities are endless. So to say you make art to help one person or a thousand people or or a hundred thousand or 10 million, it all matters the same in my mind. And so in order to do that authentically and in a real way, the only way you get there is suffering. Most of us as artists have similar stories. Like we we suffered early, we found art and then we go forward and like we heal making the art and then people listen and they heal. Yeah. That's like the whole purpose. Whether people want to admit it or not. This is not that cool sometimes to say like there's therapeutic value, but it's a hundred percent therapeutic value, no matter what anyone says, every single time. Yeah. Whether it's a big pop song that everyone's just partying to, there's therapeutic value, absolutely. Celebration. 100 percent. If it's a song people listen to when they're alone and they are crying, therapeutic value, all of it matters. And and I think artists have to suffer early in life to make art. I yeah, I totally agree. Totally agree. What would we change? Because I wouldn't change a thing. Yeah, same. If I had a super cushy, comfortable upbringing, like some of the people that I like grew up around, I feel like I would not have, I would not be here. I would not even be like in LA probably. I probably would have never gone to LA or New York. Like there's people from my hometown who have never like it's like crazy to them that I even like live in LA or New York. They're like, whoa, like that's. And then it also for me was part of my process of actually like loving and accepting and meeting my parents where they were at. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I'm not telling anyone out there listening to meet anyone where they're at if that's every situation is different. I don't know what. I'm just saying for me, I had to find some place to make peace with my own because it was really painful for me for a long time and it was confusing and all the rest, but I feel like you have a really good grasp on it. Thank you. It's refreshing. Thank you. It took a while to get to this point because I definitely held on to way more anger in the past, but that like just weighed on me so much heavier. Like I feel like when I started to feel a little bit more forgiving of him, which granted, like the last time I saw him in person, like we fight like we fight crazy. So it's not like it's like perfect or like getting to a forgiving place means that everything's perfect, but definitely. No one is. Yeah. No, no, yeah. No, no one is, but at the same time, I feel like letting go of the like hating him so much and like being like having like the mentality of like, Oh, like I hate my dad. I hate my dad and just kind of letting that go and being a little more forgiving. It just feels better. Like for me, like it feels better in my like soul to not hold on to all of that. It's lighter for you. I walk around. Yeah. It's like I feel lighter in my lighter in life, lighter in my shoes. I feel like I walk around feeling lighter than having this kind of like. I think it's better. Loud like like over me constantly of like blah, blah, blah. Like I think it's better that way. Honestly, even someone out there listening, if you're listening and you're like, there are people out there that are narcissistic psychopaths and you will never, ever make peace with them. You will never get through. You will never. And at some point, if that's what you're dealing with, you have to be able to recognize it and go, I've got to let that go. I've got to like, everybody is dealing with something different. And so I'm not telling someone out there who's estranged from someone, not just their dad. There's not always hope that you're going to be like best friends or you're going to get the love you want from them. You know, the work might be, might be like, why do I feel like I need love from this person? They can't love me. Yeah. And I deserve better, better than that. But the therapeutic work and the journey of self is getting to a place where you are at peace. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that's like for me, that's what I learned was like early on thought I wanted to control my idea of the results I wanted from everything. Yeah. And then I started to, as I got older, realized like, no, no, I want peace with the truth. Yeah. And there may not be a result there for me. May not ever be a result, but I'm at peace with making peace with the truth of who that person is or what our relationship is or whatever. So I think that's like really, really, really great. So to your new record, what is your hope for this record? Honestly, I don't really have any like hopes or expectations. I want people to kind of just digest it and enjoy it as they seek fit or, you know, respond to it, feel something, even if they hate it. I just like when people listen to things, even if people hate my music and videos, like I just like want them to like, talk with a little something. I don't know. Everyone, you know, people on Twitter. So annoying. I feel like people Twitter is a big fucking junkyard. It's like this. Yeah. And it's like dog, between stand, stand, fandoms, the dog. It's like it's like when like the like two packs of wild dogs like me down the junkyard and they fight each other. It's like that's what fandoms are like. Twitter is is crazy. It's great. I love it, but it is crazy. I'm like addicted to it. I love it. It's insanity. I'm not even hating on it. I'm saying like, that's just what it is. Yeah. The world we live in. But I think that no one's going to hate your music. That's stupid. Yeah. I mean, hopefully not. I feel like I think my biggest thing I wish for people is that even though this is my first album that I did signed to like a major. Which label are you on? Columbia and Records. Okay. Yeah. So it's been kind of a, yeah, thank you. Thank you. It's been really cool. I feel like I've had more, like I've been able to do more with like my visuals and all these different things. But even with that, like I still have taken a very DIY approach to this album. It was always just like me and producer. I didn't really have any songwriters on anything. I was very, I directed all the music videos. I like have styled myself for everything. Costume design like made shit and like, I hope that kids that like will see that will not make the mistake that like you need any kind of like, cause it's very DIY like approach for a lot of stuff and that magic and make art and like make your visuals and like, if you have music that you want to make or visuals you want to make or something to say, you can do it. Like have a friend like help you out and like you can make whatever you can make it with just a little creativity, I guess. But I really hope people feel inspired to like make their own art in their own way. I guess. Yeah. I feel like, you know, I feel like people always think like, oh, like only I had this like big budget to do this. Yeah, you don't need it. You don't need it. I will like rhinestone my own bullsh. I like rhinestone to fish for videos and I held it up. You know, you got to like do stuff yourself. Yeah, yeah, you know, we're still kind of doing that. Yeah, like we've always kind of done that. And like the videos like we always kind of threw it together and figured it out. And even like we had like big budgets sometimes for the video, but like I remember we made this video, this I just want to live video and like we somehow had been talked into some video idea that the night before I like came to and I was like, this is not a good video idea. This is going to be terrible. And Ben was like, well, what are we going to do? And I was like, I don't know. We got to come up with an idea and with the location that we've already agreed. We're going tomorrow and we need to figure this out. And we had the whole day basically to figure it out. And we worked out the video in like 24 hours. We pulled together these like these costumes that were really cheap costumes. Yeah. And like worked it out and put together this whole video. And it like ended up being like a classic video for us. Iconic, you know, that's how like that kind of stuff. That's like that's magic. Like I love that. And it was like a little bit of elbow grease just like with 24 hours. And we did it. I think that you have to be that way. Yeah. Your fingerprints have to be on stuff. You need to really have a perspective. And I feel like ideas and something to say. I feel like anytime things are like aesthetically copy pasted or just not. Like I feel like as an artist, people will love you and your story or what you have to say. Like I feel like in the past, I don't know, like I've gone through different waves and different kind of like visual worlds with like my music. And this is the first time where it's very like St. Louis. It's very like Missouri and it's very Midwest feeling. It's very Tumblr vibes. It feels like stuff I would have loved in high school. And it feels like really like my story, like very, very much like me and my little like trashy girl drag thing that I do. And I think people are responding to it more than anything else. And I just feel like there's something to kind of note about that. And with, you know, all you really need is like your voice, your perspective, your own like kind of doesn't even always need to be like authentically you per se, but like authenticity and like what you're behind and what you're doing. Like you can make up like a bullshit world, but like you have to be like in it and like making that, you know, and like driving that. Yeah, it's kind of like full circle. You get all the way, you go out, you leave St. Louis, you leave the place you grew up and you go searching. And then you're like, we all go through like the who am I phase of like, and then you come full circle to like, well, you are the person who left St. Louis and came and made their way into this big, wild music industry. Really hard. It's really hard to make it. It's really hard to like stand out. It's really hard. And you have like people out there love you. Thank you. And you're on your way to wherever you're going and you got to trust that. Yeah. But what is your career going to be? Well, it's going to be you. And I think the more in tune and in touch you get with yourself and what makes you happy and what brings you joy. And when you put that music in the world, you're going to be more and more you. That's what this album sounds like. Sounds like it's more you. Definitely. And you're taking you're embracing kind of what you what I found with myself too. Running away from something, learning that like I actually there's room for that per that kid who grew up in Southern Maryland who hated the place and wanted to run away from it and didn't want to admit he was even from there and didn't want to. Ba-ba-ba. And like you come full circle to like, no, no, I love where I'm from. This doesn't mean I'm going to move back and set up my life there. I'm not. I live here and I have a wife and kids and I love my life. Both are true. Yeah. Like I am that person, but I'm also this person who left and went into the world and went on all the rides to figure out which one I liked and figured out a bunch of stuff and landed and dislike. Well, this is kind of who I am. It's all those things. And I think every single career that's interesting has to be different. And I feel like you're on your on your own path, which is cool. That's the thing that stood out to me when I asked people about you, the people that will really love you. Like, why do you love why do you love it? It was that it's just there's something unique. There's something different. There's something special or something like it feels like you're individual. You're on your path. That's so nice of him. And it's not about I promise you, I think you'll go forward. You'll have your hits. You'll have all the things you'll get there. It's a winding road. You'll get there. You'll have all the things and the thing that will continue to stand out is like the feeling more than. Yeah. You know what I mean? Well, if all of that stuff doesn't really put like wind in my sails, I feel like most satisfied if I've like made a video that I like love the way it turned out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't really need like I don't even need critical claim. I feel like that is like I'm so uninteresting. You'll probably get that too. I don't really I don't know. I don't like you. You already I feel like music. No, actually, I feel like I'm not like a I'm not like a music critic. Like, darling, people don't really. People be like, Hater. And I'm like, I'm like, you know, the critical darlings get kind of chosen. I feel like it feels like it reminds me once again back to like the growing up poor thing. I feel like it's always like music that's very like avant-garde that I don't really understand because I was not in like a financial bracket to be like, oh, I love that. Like when you see like performance art and you're like people are like, this is so thoughtful and poignant. And you're like, huh, like I don't I don't know. I don't know about that. You know what I mean? Like I feel like it's not always not all not every time. But like, you know, I mean, so where I landed with that because we weren't either. And I always had a chip on my shoulder. And then I kind of made peace with it. And then I became friends with some people that were critical, critically acclaimed people. And I realized like, too, like they didn't even choose it. Yeah. Like, and I also kind of realized, too, like it's a double-edged sword. Like it swings both ways because they can like because it can turn on you, especially now more than ever, because things move so fast. Like the minute the public decides something and it's like, doesn't matter how true it is, it doesn't matter the details. Like suddenly like the sword has swung. Yeah. And like the narrative just, you know, there's a very it's a very tricky place to live. For sure. And to be free is to not give a fuck. Yeah. And just do what to be able to move and go wherever you want and not have and not be encumbered by any good or bad thing. For sure. You know, but I think that you actually do get, I think you're critically respected. I don't, I don't, a claim is a tough one because like some people get tapped and like they're anointed like somehow. Yeah. And you could probably engineer that too, if you really wanted to. I mean, like, yeah. But I think that you're in really good spot. Thank you. I think you're, I think you're prime. People, you know, like I care about like what people like if like people respond to it, that's like, that's all good. You have a very so, so, so one thing I'll say too is like, tell you when the gays love you. Yeah. That is a fierce. Yes. And loyal and supportive. And the community is like, like that's it. And that's also one that like you don't get to choose. No. And the people who, who, who try to market to any different crowd. It's like, you see it and then you see people who people just embrace. And I think that you just have like an excitement and like when, when that happens, you're in a really good place. Yeah. The very good crowd. Thank you. Yeah, I love it. I feel like, I feel like I'm like one of them. So like it's like, it's very synced up. Like I, like my friends in high school were like two gay guys. So like I very much was like the hag, if you will. I get it. You know. Yeah. I'm married to a gay icon. I know. I'm, I'm aware. I stole her tattoo, you know. Oh yeah. Do you know, I got my Jesus piece by Mark Mahoney and he looked at this one and he went, I did a tattoo like that. Oh my God. Love. We have matching Jesus pieces. Isn't that cool? Mark did this and he saw this and he was like, I did a, I did a Rosary tattoo for Nicole once and I was like, that's where I stole it. I love Mark. He's great. Mark Mahoney is a, by the way, O.G. Oh yeah. What a guy. Bad ass dude. And a really, really nice guy. So sweet. I interviewed him and he did this tattoo while I was interviewing him for this like magazine piece and he is like, I don't even know. He just feels so like spiritually. I feel like he was just like very casually like dropping wisdom on me. And I was just like, whoa, his like outlook. He's so calming. He's so, he's so cool. He's such a gracious person. He has nothing bad to say about anybody. He's very generous guy. He's very kind. Yeah. I really, yeah. He's great. He's saying he's old school legend. Yeah. He was telling me his whole story about like learning his, you know, grayscale shading and like all like him doing tattooing down and like, I think he said like long beach or something like that. And he learned from like all the gangster tattoos. He's the coolest. I love him. He's really cool guy and really like just a LA legend. Yeah. And like, and did all Nicole's tattoos. Yeah. And that's why he was like, I did something like that. And I was like, that's where I got the inspiration. Yeah, it's cool. Thank you. I love her. She's so cool. Yeah. She would, she would like that too. Wow. New album. Are you going on tour? Yes. Yes. When's the tour? I think fall this year starts in fall. So like around September, I think we're hitting like. Is it on sale yet? It will be on sale. It's called worst girl in the world tour. Okay. Are you excited about tour? I am. I actually love touring more than like any other piece of the pie with with music. I absolutely love touring. It's my first time doing with like a full band too. It's always been kind of like me and DJ and I wanted to do like a very like soul wax, like punk electronic kind of vibe. So it'll be like band, electronic. And I'm so excited. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I'm excited. Congrats on the record. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. And this is like so I'm such a huge fan and this is crazy. Thank you. This is great. I'm so glad we had today. I'm like a good talk. Yeah. You know, I'm like excited to even listen back to it. Like I feel like it's interesting. Listen, I'm excited for you. I think you're you're you're super cool. Thank you. Thanks for coming. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Thank you for watching artist friendly. If you liked this episode, please make sure you hit the like button. You follow the channel and please share it with your friends. We appreciate the support. That is why this show exists because you listen to it. Thank you guys. We'll see you next time.