Support for NPR and the following message come from the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, investing in creative thinkers and problem solvers who help people, communities, and the planet flourish. More information is available at hewlett.org. The new comedy series The Fall and Rise of Reggie Dinkins stars Tracy Morgan as a disgraced former football star and Daniel Radcliffe as a documentary filmmaker who team up to make a movie. The twist, Radcliffe's filmmaker has also been publicly shamed, and the documentary we'll watch getting made is his attempt to put the past behind him. I know what you're saying, another mockumentary sitcom. Well, what if I told you that the co-creators and showrunners come from shows like 30 Rock, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, and Girls 5 Eva, and that the joke density kind of bears that out? I'm Glenn Weldon, and today we're talking about the fall and rise of Reggie Dinkins on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. This message comes from WISE, the app for international people using money around the globe. You can send, spend, and receive in up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps. Be smart. Get WISE. Download the WISE app today or visit WISE.com. T's and C's apply. Support for NPR and the following message come from the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, investing in creative thinkers and problem solvers who help people, communities, and the planet flourish. More information is available at Hewlett.org. Joining me today is one of the hosts of NPR's Code Switch podcast, Gene Demby. Welcome back, Gene. What's good with you, Glenn? It's so good to see you. And with us is culture writer Margaret H. Willison. Also great to be seen. Hey, Margaret. Such a joy to be here, Glenn. I'm glad you're here. In the fall and rise of Reggie Dinkins, Tracy Morgan is Reggie Dinkins, a former New York Jet who was banned from the NFL for gambling. Daniel Radcliffe is Arthur Tobin, an Oscar-winning documentarian whose implosion on a major film set went viral, destroying his career. The two men need each other, so Arthur embeds himself in Reggie's palatial mansion to make a documentary about him. Reggie's high-strung ex-wife is still his manager. She's played by Erica Alexander. Reggie's former teammate Rusty lives in his basement. He's played by the great and good Bobby Moynihan. Robert Carlock is one of the showrunners. He was the showrunner on 30 Rock and Kimmy Schmidt. Sam Means is the other. He wrote on 30 Rock, Kimmy Schmidt, and Girls 5 Eva. The Fall and Rise of Reggie Dinkins airs on NBC and streams the next day on Peacock because that's the new normal. Margaret, what'd you think? I loved this show so much. The only thing that slowed me down when I was watching it is that I did have to keep stopping and looping other people into it. I'm a Carlock head, a Carlockian. I'm locked in for Carlock. So, you know, I had a good feeling. I was optimistic. You tell me Girls 5 Eva, I'm like, obviously, I'm going to watch all of that. That's my new personality. You tell me, football player, I'm like, well, I'll give it an episode. Or 10, in this case, because I certainly watched the whole season. I've watched a few episodes multiple times. And two things here I feel are exceptional. One, there is the car lock, joke density, and joke success. And the other thing that really, really, really delights me about this show is Daniel Radcliffe. I've known that he had something like this in him for a long time because he's from the Carrie Fisher school of using F.U. money and cultural cachet from one big franchise to sort of make whatever career you want for yourself. He's done an incredible job. He's done so many cool projects. He's demonstrated that he's a very good comedy guy. But him and his commitment to a bit combined with the kind of bits a Robert Carlock-led writing team can come up with is just delicious. Interviews are like jazz. You have to improvise. Feel it out. Like, wow! There are some things that can be clipped because they are physical but his skill in delivering this material and the quality of the material We know that he is a documentary professor He teaches documentary filmmaking at the University of Maryland. But what we don't know until he needs to send his posters back to his office is that he works at. You can mail my posters back to me at the University of Maryland Center for Documentary, Anime and Pornography. That's a great joke. I'm dying. I'm weeping. I'm texting it to my friends. Congratulations. You have a great new show ahead of you. There we go. Okay. That's Margaret. Gene, you are the closest this show is ever going to come to a sports guy. I mean, Stephen, too. I mean, Stephen Thompson, sure. But you are a football guy. What'd you make of this? So, real quick, do you think Daniel Radcliffe was doing his own stunts? That was one of the notes that I made. I believe it of him. He jumps over a car at one point. I was like, wait, did he jump over the car for real? Again, I believe it. So, I thought the show was a good hang. I don't think I was as high on it as you are, Margaret. But I really dug it. I mean, like, it's one of those, you both have commented on how joke dense it is. And every episode, at one point, I, like, cackled out loud at something. Like, I just laughed really, really hard. I was finishing up the last couple episodes last night. My wife had gone to bed. And I was like, oh, that was really loud. There was also, like, these sort of stretches. Like, oh, this is Vaughn. Like, nothing sort of stuck to me. Although, like, I have a lot of love for the cast. Like, I love Erika Alexander so much, so much. She's, like, one of those people who's like, why isn't she in more stuff? there's that weird like tracy morgan has this very strange way of reading lines that like it's one of those things like absolutely i think we like are used to it now but it's still like so it's just so like weirdly like disconcerting sometimes like it's so funny right it's like it's funny because like if someone else said this this would not work because it's like the way that words come out of his mouth like that makes these things work i devoted my whole life to entertaining you people. Are you not entertained? Gladiator. Nice. The only thing this country loves more than a hero is tear one down. Mm-hmm. Tiger Woods, y'all. Because it is like a very joke dance show and it felt like sometimes there were these, I love a good stupid digression. Cutaways, yeah. I love that kind of stuff. But it also felt like the way the season ends that nothing really kind of happens. Like, you know, and so, oh no, we got to do this all again and like we got to get the game back all together. And I was like, I didn't mind hanging out with these people, But it didn't feel like it was making a compelling argument for like, dun, dun, dun. Like, let's come back for this crew of very zany people in their shenanigans next season. Although, again, they all get moments to shine. Bobby Moynihan is one of those people who just sort of like, he just flits around the edges and makes things better. You know what I'm saying? I don't know. I liked so much of this show. And it felt like a good hang, but it didn't really stick to my ribs. You know what I'm saying? I get that. I get that. But I'm very curious about how you felt. Well, I mean, like this show could have been from the premise. You think the overarching thing is it's somebody going to be trying to wrest control of the documentary that's being made about them. We're getting a lot of documentaries now where the subject is the executive producer. And if it was about an overarching struggle, I think that might be a little less Carlockian. Because, again, this is a joke engine, this show, as opposed to an arc. Right. And also, let's be real. Like, if we're going to still be doing sitcom mockumentaries in the year 2026, we should stop with the office parks and rec formula of pretending that the crew doesn't exist. And the fact that we're making the show explicitly about the interaction between the crew and the subject, I feel like that's overdue. I'm here for it. We pull this off, people are going to see me in a whole new light. Like they did at the Pharrell's movie. Did you know he grew up Lego? We've all mentioned Tracy Morgan. He is such a singular comic presence. Every comic has a Tracy Morgan because you can. Because, again, his line delivery, his whole affect is so weird. He doesn't read his lines. He declaims them. And here's the thing. Me, as a comedy nerd, what fascinates me is that he will often take a breath in the middle of a punchline, which shouldn't work. Comedy is all about timing, right? It depends on rhythm. And yet he breaks that fundamental comedy rule And what you end up with he comes off as somebody in just about every role he plays He somebody who comes off as clueless but not stupid And I can define what that distinction is for you If you ask me to, I will just point at Tracy Morgan because that's what I think he's doing. A thousand percent. And Daniel Radkoff can do comedy. You guys should check out a show, Miracle Workers, if you haven't. He's so good on that show. He's been doing this kind of comedy. This is the kind of comedy he's made for, which is kind of high-status guy, brought low. But I'm going to take a little bit of exception with some of the things you said. I do think this show is a joke engine. I also think it's deliberately pitched to be a bit more grounded, a bit lower key than thoroughly goofy shows like 30 Rock and Kimmy Schmidt. Now, every show in the history of existence is less goofy and lower key than 30 Rock and Kimmy Schmidt. Right. Because those are joke engines first and character comedy second. Right. They're cutting the joke density a bit with baking powder. I don't know what you cut things with. But, like, if Kimmy Schmidt is Greek yogurt, this is regular yogurt. And I wasn't buying that in the beginning because pilot problems, right? There is clearly an attempt to give everybody a bit. Monica, the ex-wife, is uptight. Brina, the fiancé, played by Precious Way, is an influencer. Who's great. What are they finding? She's great. But that's the extent of her character at first. But as the season progresses, I vibed with it. I got into the characters because they do the smart thing that sitcoms need to do with characters is pair them off in different combinations so they can kind of bounce off each other. Yeah, you think it's going to be about resting control as Doc, but that would be a little too much conflict, I think, and a little too... I think there'd be an edge that this show is interested in. This show plays to the heart more than that. It's not just the fake documentary thing that it's sort of biting from Abbott Elementary. I feel like it's also aiming for that type of heartwarmingness. And I think it's getting more like a heart tepidness Like I'm rooting for all these characters. I like them. But like the emotional moments aren't what I'm there for. But maybe that could change with time. Like I like all of them and I do like that they're just like solidly decent people across the board. You know, nobody is craven. You know, and that's especially in the later seasons of 30 Rock. Craig Robinson's character, his nemesis is cartoonishly evil. Oh, sure. But that's fun. Craig Robinson plays like a malevolent Michael Strahan figure. It's true. It's true. Even though it's less joke dense, these jokes, Jane, I feel exactly the same way you do. Three or four times an episode for me, you get these precious diamond hard gems. These jokes that I couldn't imagine it's taken this long in human civilization to come up with because they feel like they've always been there. They've just been discovered. So the jokes are one thing. The other thing that brought me back every time, even when I, you know, we were getting some fakey emotional scenes that weren't really doing it for me. then Bobby Moynihan's Rusty would show up. Now Reggie lets me live in his basement. You know, best friend stuff. I also run all of his social media. We went viral last week because I had a rash on my neck and a bunch of nurses reached out. And I think he is where I keyed in the most because he strikes me as kind of the vestigial tale of 30 Rock. Because, you know, he's giving you so much more than what's on the page. He has written pathetic and sad and Moynihan's delivering that. but he's just too insanely funny and charismatic. So, I mean, I think in the early going, some of the actors are hitting their marks delivering these lines, and these are very quick scripts, and so you have to kind of, you want to hit your marks and deliver the lines, but Moynihan is just in his element here. I want to pelt that guy with Emmys. I think this guy is doing exactly what you need to do in this situation. I think about Bobby Moynihan as this dude who's always done that thing. The very, very funny Tom Hanks skit from SNL. David S. Pumpkins? Yeah, the very funny David S. Pumpkins sketch. Glenn just made a face. This is a ridiculous sketch. Yes. And so much of that sketch works because Bobby Moynihan is just making stupid faces in the background. And just like, it's just very weird. You think that works because of Tom Hanks, but it works because of Bobby Moynihan. Because of Bobby Moynihan. It totally does. Because Bobby Moynihan, literally on the edges of the screen. And one of the things just to go back to Tracy Morgan again I just remember when he first popped up He been around for a minute But even way back in the martin like he was he played hustle man his job was to come in and say completely outlandish stuff and it was hilarious and it weird to see how like that evolved as he gotten older because at first like when he was got the snl i was like is he in on the like it feels like it almost felt like sometimes he maybe was being laughed at and maybe wasn't in on the joke he's being laughed at and now it's very clear that he like has like sort of like complete control of this thing that he's doing this sort of very all-pilter thing that he's doing that we're like very used to and so even in the early parts of 30 Rock it's like is he the butt of the joke here and does he know that he's above the joke it was like very this sort of uncomfortable thing place where he's living and that is not he's evolved to the point where it seems like that tension is a place that he's very comfortable like to your point Glenn he's clueless but not dumb you know yeah it's a very hard place to live you know I would clip a joke here which is uh Arthur Estobin asking him does he know what documentary means. Reddy, you know what the word documentary means, right? Well, I assume it's from the Latin word documentum, meaning lesson or instruction. I took Latin in college because I thought it would help me meet Dominican chicks, but then I liked it. Yeah, that was so funny. That's a great line. That's one of those jokes. That's one of those diamond heart jokes. Why hasn't anybody made that joke? It is very special to be able to deliver all parts of that joke and have every bit of it feel equally plausible. Like, yes, you would think Latin would help you pick up Dominican chicks, but you would come to love it because you've genuine intellectual curiosity. And, you know, 40 years later, you'd still remember it. Yeah. I mean, him knowing Latin is a runner. Turns out to be a runner that comes up in the show. But he's called upon to do something he hasn't really been called upon to do in like 30 Rock. I mean, like he has to act. He has to be in a scene with another actor. And so the chemistry between Morgan and Radcliffe, that's what the show is built around. I'll be honest, I didn't always feel it. They're coming from two very different places comedically and theatrically, I guess, which is the hook. But I sometimes feel like when they're not firing off jokes and they just both need to be present in a scene together, I don't know if I always felt it. Was it there for you? No, I think that's true. I would agree. I think it wasn't a distraction for me. But when I compare his dynamic with Arthur S. Tobin to his dynamic with the other actors on the show, like he's got such a natural way with Brina, Precious Way. The dynamic with him and Erika Alexander is so good and well-established. But there, yeah, there's a little bit less connection. Yeah, but that's the point, right? I can't fault it. Sure. Yeah. I just hope Robert Carlock's bid here for sort of like broadly network appealing show that still has jokes for me and Glenn and Gene in it. I really wish it success because I would love to see this continue. And also because so much of the show is based on what's happened in the past, we do get cutaways to the past, and there is a wig budget, thank God. And there is a pretty solid wig budget in this show, and there's stupid visual jokes, but they always get me. I'm a simple man, and they always get me. I think it is very impressive that all three of us agree we laughed aloud at this show while watching it alone. That's true. Absolutely. Well, we want to know what you think about the fallen rise of Reggie Dickens. As you heard us, we're on board. Find us at facebook.com slash PCHH. That brings us to the end of our show. Margaret H. Willis and Jean Demby. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me, Glenn. Appreciate you. Of course. And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus is a great way to support our show on public radio. And you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor-free. So please find out more at plus.npr.org slash happyhour. Or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger and Mike Katzoff and edited by our showrunner Jessica Reedy. and Hello, Come In provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Glenn Weldon, and we'll see you all next time. Support for NPR and the following message come from the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation. Investing in creative thinkers and problem solvers who help people, communities, and the planet flourish. More information is available at hewlett.org.
