The Crimes of Margo Freshwater | 3. Undercover

I want to tell you guys about a podcast that is near and dear to my heart, and I cannot believe it already came out a year ago. And you can all go listen to it ad-free by subscribing to the Binge podcast channel. What podcast, Corinne? Tell us. Oh, it's called Blink, Jake Handel's Story. I created it about a man named Jake, who I met, who is the only survivor of a terminal brain illness brought on by heroin use. But there is a lot of mystery and medical malpractice and true crime elements that are very shocking and surprising and even some supernatural elements. So this is definitely an amazing story. It's very unique. Did such an incredible job telling the story and cheering it with the world. So if you have not listened to it yet, my goodness, where have you been? Because Blink is so freaking good. Thank you. Search for Blink wherever you listen. And subscribers to The Binge will get the entire season ad free. Plus, you'll get exclusive access to the over 60 other true crime stories on The Binge podcast channel. Hit subscribe on Apple Podcasts or head to getthebinge.com. Listen to all episodes of The Crimes of Margot Freshwater ad-free right now by subscribing to The Binge. Visit The Binge channel on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page. Or visit getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen. The Binge. Feed your true crime obsession. Why not? I think traditionally, people maintain contact with their families. And we were not convinced that she had not. That's Stephen Shearholt, retired BCI agent who eventually became Greg Costas' boss. Shearholt remembers that as long as Margo's fate was still unknown, Costas wouldn't stop until he found the answer. Greg was like a dog with a bone. Call it ego or call it grit, but Costas believed no secret could resist him forever. Every cop before him had pressed her relatives, hoping for a crack. But every attempt had collapsed into silence. So Costas knew he'd need a different way in. I thought, why couldn't I impersonate the baby that she gave up for adoption in 1966? six. Costas was 27 at the time, the exact age the baby would have been. It was a coincidence he could use, the perfect cover for getting close. And since the real child had been adopted as an infant, it's not like anyone would know what he grew up to look like. And I could approach the family members saying, hey, this is who I am. I'm trying to find my birth mother, Margo Freshwater. This was a pretty bold plan. Ethically blurry for sure. Everybody thought it was a great idea. But you did have to tread lightly. Okay, because you're dealing with three other lives here, meaning the parents that adopted the kid and the kid himself, right? It was risky. Maybe this kid didn't know he was adopted. Maybe his parents had kept that from him. And if he didn't know, maybe he didn't want to know his biological family. Still, the scheme made sense. If Costas played the part, he could slip right into their world without setting off alarms. In order to do that, though, I had to figure out who the boy was, his real identity. Because my fear was, what if this boy really did try to find his birth mother and actually made contact with these people? and then here I come saying, hey, you know, I'm looking for my mom, Margo. And they're like, well, no, you know, he was already here. So I went through the probate court and subpoenaed the records, but you open up the file and there's nothing in there. It was just literally almost impossible to find out who adopted the kid. All you could really find was the birth certificate. There was no guarantee it would lead anywhere. But Costas, he doesn't give up that easy. We'll be right back following the... So one night I'm laying in bed and I'm watching TV and I'm watching the 11 o'clock news and there's a story on there about a girl who was reunited with her mother and this girl used this company called Reunite and what they do is they try to help adoptive kids find their birth parents or vice versa. So I thought, huh, I wonder if they can help me. I called them the next day. How in the world was he going to explain this? How do you call this well-meaning nonprofit and say, hey, I'm looking for a convicted murderer on the loose. Want to hop on the bandwagon? They were concerned. You think? They thought I was somehow investigating them. And they're trying to tell me that everything they do is above board. And I said, look, that's fine. I need your help. So we set up a meeting and I basically told them the whole story. Costas has got a silver tongue. The guy can talk his way through just about anything. I'm telling you, it was within three days. They had it narrowed down to like three kids. Everybody who was born on that day that was put up for adoption and they had it narrowed down to three boys. Costas had to figure out, of the three, who was the one. Then something jumped out at him in the details Reunite provided on each boy. One of them said, father's occupation, hairdresser. Earlier when he got his hands on the birth certificate, the father's occupation was listed as hairstylist. So when I saw a hairdresser, I knew this is him. Bingo. His name was Michael, and he lived up in Finley, Ohio, which is up in Northwest Ohio. So I pulled up his picture, his driver's license photo, and you can actually see a little freshwater in him. So now I know who the boy is. But now I have to talk to his adoptive parents, right? Because I didn't feel the need to tell somebody that his birth mother is a wanted fugitive for murder. It's funny where Costas draws the line. So I thought, well, I'll talk to the adoptive parents. And it was a very difficult phone call. They seemed pretty confused at first, but he told them straight. He just wanted to know if anyone had ever reached out about their son or if their son had ever tried to find his birth mother. No, nobody had ever tried to find him. and no, he's never had any interest in finding his birth parents. So now I know I'm good to go. The plan was set. He'd built himself a new identity. Not a cop, not a fed, a son. Greg Costas would become Michael, the child Margot Freshwater never got to keep. From Sony Music Entertainment and Glass Podcasts, this is The Crimes of Margot Freshwater. I'm Cooper Mall. Episode 3, Undercover. As part of the cover, my partner, you know, at the time was about seven or eight years older than me. And we decided he was going to pose as my private investigator that I hired to find my birth mother. Together, Costas and his partner David Meyer spent weeks designing an illusion. David Meyer declined to participate in this podcast, but Costas remembers it like it was yesterday. We had to create a fictitious private investigation company. So we came up with the Great Lakes investigations. And of course, that's because the Great Lakes are fresh water. Even special agents have inside jokes. We had business cards, letterhead. And the phone number on them? There was a little satellite office in Cincinnati that had a hard line, a landline that nobody ever used. and if you called it, you got an answering machine saying, you have reached the Great Lakes investigations, you know, nobody is available right now, blah, blah, blah. These guys went the whole nine. Costas gave me a copy of the letterhead and business card, and I gotta say, if someone handed me this stuff, I wouldn't assume it was fake. They were already tracking the family's phone calls and mail. We were hoping it would generate some activity where they would pick up the phone and start making phone calls. So we were keeping an eye on that. Costas had already honed in on the three surviving family members, Margo's half-brother Tim, her brother Tommy, and her great-aunt Leona. Now they just had to decide which order they'd approach them in. We thought, well, let's start with Tim White. But he had nothing. He told them he barely knew her, never knew she was pregnant, and couldn't help them. We thought, well, okay, that didn't go well. So the next person we talked to was Aunt Leona. Aunt Leona was probably, at this time, she had to be pushing 80. She lived in the same apartment for, gosh, I don't know, 20, 30 years. I mean, she was in that same apartment when Margo had that baby. After Margo gave birth, she couldn't go home. And Aunt Leona allowed her and the newborn baby to stay with her. It was at Aunt Leona's home where Margot decided she wasn't cut out from motherhood yet. She was a broke teenager, with no family support, and no baby daddy in the picture. Aunt Leona had met baby Michael when he was just days old. If anything was going to break through, it would be this visit. An old woman, a lost great nephew, and a story designed to pull at the heart. I decided I'm going to go up with my partner so I could be standing there. They rehearsed the story one last time in the car. Every word meant to sound casual and believable. We get there, we knock on the door. This little old lady comes to the door. You know, are you Leona Julius? And she says yes. And my partner introduces us and says, you know, this is Michael. He hired me to find his birth mother and his birth mother is Margo Freshwater. And we know that you are her aunt. For a split second, Costa thought the whole thing might fall apart. After all, Margo's family had investigators snooping around before him. She could have seen through it, slammed the door, called the cops even. Instead, she just stared at him, studying his face like she was searching for someone she'd lost. She looked at me and said, Honey, I've always wondered what happened to you. and invited us into her apartment. We sit down on her couch. She says, let me go get some pictures of your mom. She goes upstairs. They looked around, the place felt untouched by time. Lace curtains, family photos, the faint smell of old furniture and dust Costas could feel the weight of their deception settle in as they sunk into the well couch It was right about that time my partner looked at me and said you know you're going to hell, right? And I said, well, you know, Margot is a murderer. Then footsteps on the stairs cut the moment short. Leona comes back down with pictures of Margot, most of which I had never seen because they were taken at the Tennessee Prison for Women when Leona went down to visit her. Costa showed me this photo. Aunt Leona let him keep it. Something to remember his mom by. Margo's hair is perfectly quaffed. Her brown blazer is buttoned up to her neckline. Think Jackie O without the charismatic first lady's smile. She is in prison. After a few minutes of small talk, the conversation shifted to what they were really there for. locating a fugitive. Turns out, Leona held on to more than just pictures. She still carried her own version of the story, one where Margo wasn't a killer at all. She had told me that she didn't believe that Margo was guilty. And last she'd seen Margo was when that photo was taken. She had heard that Margo escaped. But that was it. So we left. I had the pictures, and then me and Aunt Leona became kind of pen pals for a little bit. I asked Costas why he kept up with Aunt Leona, and he didn't really have a rationale. Could his conscience have crept up on him? Did he feel sorry for her? He told me that he didn't even totally understand it. And it didn't help him in his search. Because beyond warmth and nostalgia, she knew nothing. No trace of where Margot had gone. So the next person obviously was Tommy. Margo's full-blooded brother, who happened to be in prison at the time. And I actually made a colossal mistake, a rookie mistake, if you will. I'll let Costas explain. So I called the prison and I talked to the investigator. I didn't tell them what we were doing. I just said that we needed to interview Tommy Freshwater and we needed privacy. So me and my partner show up. We're sitting in the warden's office and they bring in Tommy. We introduce ourselves to Tommy. My partner says, you know, introduces himself. This is Michael. And he hired me to find his mother. Turns out Tommy had gotten a heads up and he was savvy like his sister. Tommy looks at me and says, yeah, my brother Tim White wrote me a letter and said somebody claiming to be Margo's son may be coming to visit you. So Tommy says, so I said to my Selly, damn, man, I may have a nephew out there that I didn't know about. And he says, and then I told him, if the dude writes me, he's legit. If he comes to visit me in person, they're the police. Costas exchanged a quick look with his partner. Now here they were, standing right in front of him, exactly the way a cop would. We're both trying to play it off. And he says, well, then answer me this. If you're not the police, why are we inside the warden's office? Meyer took the lead on the damage control. So my partner, thinking on his feet, said, well, that's on me. I happen to know the warden, and I asked him to do me a favor because of how sensitive this is, and that's why we're here. I chimed in and said, look, I'm just trying to find out who my family is. I'm not a cop, you know, I'm just a small-town boy from northwest Ohio. For a moment, neither of them knew which way it would go. Well, we convinced him that I was legit, and he added me to his visitation list at the prison. But this final Hail Mary, it didn't pay off. All it bought him was access, his fake name on a visitor list, nothing else. Tommy didn't have anything new to give him, just hazy memories of growing up with Margo. You know, when we left there, we were convinced after speaking to all three of them that there was no contact whatsoever between Margo and the family. If the family couldn't give them that break, maybe putting Margo's story back in the spotlight could. And there was one show with national reach and a knack for catching fugitives on the lam. America's Most Wanted. Can't get enough of the story of Margo Freshwater? Do you need more than the episodes can provide? Real quick, we just launched a free true crime newsletter and community page to go along with our binge shows, including The Crimes of Margot Freshwater. And you can access it at the link in our episode description or at patreon.com slash the binge. You'll get behind the scenes reporting, case updates, and a chance to chat with one of the show's creators and other fans. The newsletter comes out twice a month. It's totally free. And it's where the story continues. I'll see you there. Just hit the link in the description or head to patreon.com slash the binge. I've been trying to simplify my wardrobe lately, not some dramatic throw everything out kind of way, but just being more intentional. Fewer pieces, better quality, things I actually want to wear over and over again. And that is where Quince has been amazing. They have premium fabrics, thoughtful design, and everyday essentials that feel effortless and dependable, even as the seasons change. I've actually really been enjoying the Mongolian cashmere quarter zip sweater in the olive color. It's one of those pieces that instantly makes you look put together but still feel relaxed. You can wear it on your own, layer it in a jacket, dress it up a little bit, keep it casual. It's versatile in the best way possible. Quince makes all the essentials that make getting dressed easier. Lightweight cashmere sweaters, short-sleeve cashmere polos, linen pieces, and really great Pima cotton tees. These are the kind of clothes that work season to season without having to overthink it too much. And what makes Quince different is that they work directly with top factories to cut out the middleman. So you're not paying for brand markup or expensive storefronts, just high-quality clothing. Their cashmere is 100% Mongolian and the same material luxury brands use, but at a much more approachable price. So stop overcomplicating your wardrobe. I'm trying. You don't need a closet full of options. You just need pieces that you like. Right now, go to quince.com slash crimes for free shipping and 365-day returns. That's a full year to build out your wardrobe and love it. And you will. Now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to quince.com slash crimes for free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com slash crimes. Margo Freshwater had served just 18 months of a 99-year sentence when she escaped in 1970. Today, she could be hiding as someone's wife, a mother, even a grandmother. Maybe tonight, you've got the answer that authorities have been looking for for nearly 25 years. On July 30th, 1994, America's Most Wanted brought Margot Freshwater's story to the screen. The episode was pure 90s television, quick cuts, ominous narration, and reenactments that played out like a crime noir short film. Actors retraced her romance and crime spree with Glenn Nash from Memphis to the Gulf, flashing back to the liquor store murder, the jailbreak, and the decades-long mystery of where she'd gone. Freshwater was 22 when she escaped, then the FBI has enhanced this photo with different hairstyles to show you how she might look today at age 46. In the segment, their producers talk to a lot of people I have in my own reporting, and some I couldn't because they're long dead. Notably, Glenn Nash, Margo's co-conspirator, gave them an exclusive phone interview. I think that it would be to Margo Freshwater's best interest to go ahead and turn herself in. A lot of time has passed, and it's really time that she give this deep thought and come in and get this behind her. Nash, the man she once followed across state lines, now in the limelight. Not for his hand in the crimes, but to tell Margo it was time to give herself up. The segment ends on a split screen. On the right is a grainy, black-and-white head-and-shoulders image of a woman with short hair and a neutral expression. labeled as Margo Freshwater. On the left, her details. Margo Freshwater, age 46, 5'4", 130 to 200 pounds. Beneath that is a large tip hotline number. If you know anything about the case of Margo Freshwater, agents are in our Washington, D.C. studios waiting to hear from you. Before any chain reaction was set, Costas, watching from Ohio, picked up a pen as Michael. After it aired, I wrote Leona a letter and I wrote Tommy a letter, basically saying, you know, I can't believe this. I happen to be watching America's Most Wanted and lo and behold, there's my mom. And Leona wrote back and said, don't listen to anything you hear. Your mom was a wonderful woman. That was the last he ever heard from all three of Margo's family members. They were left with no choice but to rely on the public, tips coming in from America's Most Wanted. The way we divvied it up was every tip that came in that was in the confines of Ohio, they kicked it to me. Each one offered a glimpse of a woman. who wasn't Margo. When the tips start coming in, it wasn't, hey, I know this woman's Margo because she told me. But it was always, hey, I know somebody that looks just like the age enhancement. Knowing now how Margo aged, I gotta say, the picture that was blasted on America's Most Wanted couldn't look further from the woman I met or the woman in the mugshot that drew me to this story. In the grainy black and white, they disappeared her bone structure. Her eyes are further apart. Imagine asking AI what you look like in a parallel universe. It just doesn't make sense. The problem is, you know, that's one person's interpretation of one photo. If you look back at all the photographs of Margot from the time she was arrested and in trial and in jail, she literally looks different in a lot of these photos. That photo turned out to be more of a problem than a clue. Instead of narrowing the search, it sent investigators chasing faces that only looked the part. Every once in a while, you'd get a phone call here or a tip there that we'd follow up on, but really nothing of any substance The kind that only reminded them how cold the trail really was Weeks turned into months We never closed it out but it just goes into a pending, inactive state. Margot Freshwater's 15 minutes of fame were up. The brief resurrection of her story faded as quickly as it appeared. But true crime television never lets go. It loves to trot the same stories back out, polish them up, and send them searching for an ending all over again. In 2002, clear out of the blue, I got a call from a producer from Unsolved Mysteries, and they said that they wanted to do a show on Margot Freshwater. Another true crime TV show wanted to look into Margot's case. But this time, there was a big difference. Previous searches for Margot had been all phone calls. paper trails and shoe leather, the old way. Now, the 21st century had broken open, and with it came the kind of technology that could find anyone, anywhere. So I finally admitted to myself that I would love to be one of those people that knows a ton about plants, though I am not that person. I wish that my yard looked great. It does not. I want things growing everywhere. They do not. I want people to come over to my house and for me to casually say, oh yeah, could you grab a lemon from the tree? There are no trees. But going to a nursery is a step too far. It's intimidating. You're standing there and you know, privately googling things like, can this tree survive me? That's why fast growing trees is such a game changer. It's America's largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants shipped directly to your door. So whether you're looking for privacy trees, fruit trees, or something to make your space just feel more alive, they help you find plants that actually work for your climate and your lifestyle. And everything arrives healthy, ready to thrive, backed by their alive and thrive guarantee. So even if you don't have exactly a green thumb, you still have a real shot at success. Right now, they have great deals on spring planting essentials, up to half off on select plants. And listeners to our show get 20% off their first purchase when using the code binge at checkout. That's an additional 20% off better plants and better growing at fastgrowingtrees.com using the code binge at checkout. Fastgrowingtrees.com code binge. Now it's the perfect time to plant. So let's grow together. Use binge to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. terms and conditions may apply. Listen, we see you crushing workouts, building your thing from nine to five and somehow also from five to nine. You hold yourself to a higher standard and honestly your drink should too. That's where nowadays comes in. Nowadays is a zero proof THC beverage that gives you a clean, reliable buzz. No hangover, no empty calories, no regrets. Just really bold flavor, good energy and actually being present the next day, which personally I love. This isn't about giving up fun to chase your goals. It's about choosing a better way to do both. You work hard, you play smart, you've earned this. It's what I reach for when I want to unwind without feeling foggy, sluggish, or questioning my life choices the next morning. I mean, doesn't that sound lovely? So if that sounds good to you, here's the deal. Visit trynowadays.com slash crimes to get 20% off your order. That's trynowadays.com slash crimes or just put crimes at checkout. Drink responsibly, must be 21 or older. Eight years after America's Most Wanted sparked his first hunt for Margo, Unsolved Mysteries felt like a second shot. A chance to finally prove what he'd always believed, that Margo Freshwater wasn't a ghost. Of course, they talked to Tennessee, they talked to me, and now you go to the case file, you blow the dust off of it and you start leafing through it again. And once that old file was open again, it was like a signal went out. Shortly thereafter, I got a phone call from Greg Elliott from TBI. You heard that right. Another Greg. Different badge, same hunt. I started as an agent with Tennessee Bureau of Investigation in 1985. Started right out of college. The primary area that I spent the most time working in was fugitive cases. That call connected two decades of dead ends. Because while Costas had been striking out in Ohio, Tennessee investigators had been playing hot potato with the case and hitting the same walls. Eventually, the potato landed in Elliot's hands. She was given to me for some reason, not any special reason. I just happened to be up to bad at that time, I guess. But this case was different. The woman's trail was ancient. The paper inside the file was yellowed and thin. Even her mugshot looked like it belonged to another century. So it was a really cold case by the time I got to it. By 2002, when Unsolved Mysteries came calling, Elliot had been in the game long enough to spot a dead case from a mile away. He wasn't obsessed with this case the way Costas had become. To him, Margo Freshwater was just another name in an old file, with a story ripe for Hollywood. So if he was calling Costas up, something had to have shifted. And he says to me, have you ever come across the name Tanya McCarter? And I said no, but we knew Tanya. It came from the FBI when she first escaped from prison. So it was common knowledge that was one of the aliases that she was using. Faye Copeland, the woman Margo had escaped prison with, mentioned that name back in 1971. Now that clue was finally in the right hands, at the right time. Because now, the World Wide Web was a thing. The National Crime Database connected precincts from coast to coast, letting cops share information. Agencies across the country could talk to each other in real time, share data, compare fingerprints, track aliases. Law enforcement had finally stepped out of the dark ages and into a world where no one could hide forever. He had said that there was a database. You put in somebody's name and you're gonna get everything about this person that a public record could pick up on. What happened was one of our analysts came to me and he said, hey, you might want to look at this right here. I said, I've come across an individual up in Columbus, Ohio. Somebody from TBI was just playing around with the computer and put in the name Tanya, just the name Tanya, and Margo's date of birth. Out of all of the records in the database, there was just one single match. A Tanya Hudkins-McCarter living in the same town Margo grew up in, with the same birthday. This was huge. With the click of a mouse, the dead file had been hit with a defibrillator. Thing was, Elliot was in Tennessee, and this Tanya was in Ohio. When he called up Costas, Elliot needed his help. I said, hey, I got this information. See if you can find a driver's license or maybe a DL photo of this person or figure out who this person is. Elliot thought this was going to take a minute. He called me back a couple hours later. He said, hey, I'm sending you something. You need to look at this. We took a clear plastic sheet of paper and we made a copy of Margo's mugshot from 1966. Then we took a copy of one of Tonya McCarter's previous driver license photos. Then we put a copy of that on a regular white piece of paper and then took the plastic sheet with the mugshot and placed it on top of the white sheet that had one of her former driver's license photos, everything lines up perfectly. The eyes, the nose, the mouth, the ears, the chin, the lips. When I visited Costas at his home in Tucson, he pulled this out as if it were a magic trick. So this was another driver's license, one of her driver's license photos where she looks pissed off. And then that was obviously a copy of her mugshot. And then took it and just, it's really fascinating. Look at that. That is crazy, the way the eyes line up. Yeah, look at that. But look at that. I mean, isn't that crazy? It was truly shocking. I mean, look at that. There's no difference. It really does take your breath away. It's creepy, right? Yeah, I think creepy is one of the better ways to describe it. The woman in the picture was older, softer around the eyes, but the resemblance is unmistakable. Like time had folded in on itself and Margo was staring back from a new life. So I email it to Greg Elliott and he says, It looked like you were looking at a picture of a mother and a daughter. It was the first face anyone had connected to Margo Freshwater in more than 30 years. I said, yeah, we need to look into this a little bit more. I kind of was hurt. It was amazing. That date of birth, that first name, and then that photo. It was the whole loaf of bread. Sherholtz saw confirmation. Costas saw coincidence. I'm very cautiously pessimistic. I try to keep my expectations low so I don't get disappointed. Costas wasn't about to call this case solved without something solid to back it up. I'm like, let's pump the brakes. you know, let me do some work on this. So I decided, well, I am going to just dig into the life of Tanya Hudkins-McCarter. He'd need hard proof. So the idea was to find enough probable cause to obtain Tanya Hudkins-McCarter's fingerprints, to compare them to the ones Margo Freshwater gave when she was arrested in December 1966. There wasn't proof that Tanya was Margo. Not yet. But the more he looked, the more this Tanya woman started to smell like trouble. I don't know if this woman is Margo Freshwater, but Tanya Hopkins McCarter is hiding from something or somebody. The more I dug, the more red flags kept coming up. He started with the obvious. the cornerstone of legal identity. There's no birth certificate for this woman. In fact, it didn't appear she even existed before 1974. No school transcripts, no hospital records, no paper trail for this Tanya. The social security number that she was using had no history prior to that. Maybe McCarter hadn't always been her surname. There was an answer for that too. She applied for her social security number in 1971 as Tonya Myers She listed David A Myers as her father Okay Reapplied in 1973 as Tanya Myers, listed David Anthony as father. So now we got David Myers and David Anthony. reapplied in 1974 as Tanya Zimmerman, listed again David Myers as a father. Reapplied in 1978 as Tanya Hopkins, listed David Myers as father. She'd clearly had more than one husband, but more than one dad? That's kind of not possible. It was as if her past had been rearranged, line by line. to fit whatever version she needed at the time. Next came employment records. I found out that she worked at MetLife. Selling insurance. This could be it. I was tracking that down to see if she ever did get licensed because I knew that if she got licensed, she would have to be fingerprinted. In most states, if you want to sell insurance, you have to be fingerprinted as part of your background check. Those prints go to state and federal agencies, including the FBI, to make sure you're cleared to work. But she never was printed. MetLife might not have had her fingerprints, but she was an employee after all. They'd have to have a file on her, which included her initial job application. That would certainly have some background info. Costas subpoenaed it. And there was a high school listed that didn't exist. Another alarm bell. Costas figured if that one personnel file exposed a lie, there were probably more. He pulled her records from MetLife, then traced her back to her brief job at AAA. The details did not line up. Even the high school she listed changed from one application to the next. The specifics bounced around, but one thing in every file stood out. Looking at it as a whole, one thing that was consistent was there was about five years of her life that were just unaccounted for. Every document they pulled traced back only so far. Until it suddenly stopped. Why? Well, because she was in prison, that's why. Most investigators would have stopped there. Costas couldn't. He wanted more than circumstantial evidence. He wanted a smoking gun. I still wasn't convinced. I have to keep digging, I have to keep digging, I have to keep digging. Costas reached out to a few of Tanya's MetLife co-workers. They didn't have much to say about Tanya, but they did explain the last name of Carter. She left in February 2000 to become a truck driver with her husband. So they determined that she was married to Daryl McCarter and that he was an over-the-road trucker. She actually had her CDL, which is why she quit her job. A commercial driver's license. It looked like Tanya and Daryl went into business together. Each record felt like it might be the one to unlock her past. But the answers kept vanishing just as he got close. Sheerholt remembers Costas was really hung up on making Tanya Hudkins-McCarter real. We just kept hitting dead ends or unable to find a birth certificate. And Greg rightfully was following up on everything and expecting to have an aha moment. And it didn't happen. What unsettled cost us most was the feeling that he was chasing a shadow, not a person. He was getting very frustrated, very discouraged, thinking that it's not her or I would have found something. And I remember one day talking to him at his house and telling him, the fact that you are not finding anything is the thing. That was their probable cause. And they were going to run with it. But they still needed a warrant and to find the woman they were going to serve. Luckily, they had her address from the driver's license they pulled up in the database. So I start doing drive-bys of the apartment that her and Daryl McCarter are living in. So I'm driving by almost every day. No activity. No activity. never saw any lights on. For two weeks, day after day, outside their East Columbus suburban apartment, nothing changed. On Saturday, May 18th, 2002, Costas had just clocked out. I was on my way home from work, and I stopped, and I got a beer. I got a beer and a shot. Then, like muscle memory, Margo's case found its way back into his thoughts. As I was drinking my beer, I thought, you know what? What the hell? since I'm already out, let me just take a ride by the apartment and see if there's anything going on. So I drive by the apartment and a light's on that I'd never seen on before. And then right in front of the light is Daryl's car license plate, R-O-O-T-66. So that's when I was like, holy shit, I think they're home. For a moment, Costas just sat there, engine idling, staring at that window. This was the closest he had ever been to the woman he'd been chasing for nearly a decade, and who'd been on the run even longer. Then, his pulse kicked up. And I parked where I could see their apartment and see the car in case anybody left. And I remember literally sitting there thinking, what the fuck do I do now? Costas had gone totally rogue. He couldn't just walk up and knock on the door without backup or a signed warrant. He needed to know who was inside. There was one way in, the phone number they'd found in the database. In the moment, it was the only card to play. I thought, okay, I'll call the number and just say, hi, who's this? And hopefully she'd say, oh, it's Tanya, who's this? I call the number and a woman answers. and I say, hi, who's this? And the woman says, well, who's this? And I said, this is Vinny. And she says, who are you looking for, Vinny? And I said, I'm looking for Susie. And she goes, you got the wrong number. I said, oh, I'm sorry. Well, that was awkward. But it gave cost to something, sort of. Okay, now I know there's a woman in the house, but I don't know that it's Margo Freshwater or Tanya Hopkins-McCarter. It was time to call for backup. I called my boss and I said, they're home, I'm going to be sitting on it for a while to see if I have any movement. And he says, okay. I then called Greg Elliott from the TBI. He said, hey, they're home. He said, they're back at the apartment. We've got the apartment under surveillance. And this is about seven or eight o'clock one night. So I said, okay, I'm coming up and we'll see what we got to do to get her identified. And he did. He flew up that night. I actually flew the TBI plane up there that we had and got there about 11 or 12 o'clock. He met me at the airport. They kept the house under surveillance. And then we started the next morning at about 5 o'clock. So the issue that we had was, number one, we had to get the affidavit written, a search warrant, and then had to locate a judge. They needed to move now. But Murphy's Law had other plans. Tanya Hudkins-McCarter turned up on the worst day of the week to push paperwork. Sunday. The prosecutor wanted to wait till Monday. And I'm like, there's no way in hell. They're here now. Tanya and Daryl were truckers, used to long hauls and disappearing for weeks at a time. If they pulled out again, who knew when they'd have another shot at her? I'm a nervous fucking wreck. Judges were home. Offices were dark. Phones ringing into the void. If they waited till Monday, they risked losing her entirely. Next time on The Crimes of Margo Freshwater, Tanya reveals how she hid from authorities in those first five years as a fugitive and what made things complicated from the jump. We were talking one night and I told him, I said, well, you're nice. I like you. but I can't get in a relationship if I'm pregnant. Unlock all episodes of The Crimes of Margot Freshwater ad-free right now by subscribing to the Binge Podcast channel. Not only will you immediately unlock all episodes of this show, but you'll get binge access to an entire network of other great true crime and investigative podcasts, all ad-free. Plus, on the first of every month, subscribers get a binge drop of a brand new series. That's all episodes, all at once. Search for The Binge on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe at the top of the page. Not on Apple? Head to getthebinge.com to get access wherever you listen. The Crimes of Margo Freshwater is an original production of Sony music entertainment and glass podcasts. It was hosted and reported by me, Cooper Mall. Maura Walls is our story editor. Our executive producers are Catherine St. Louis, Jonathan Hirsch, Nancy Glass, Ben Fetterman, and Andrea Gunning. Sound design and editing by Anna McLean. Mixed and mastered by Matt Delvecchio. Our theme music was composed by Oliver Baines. We use music from MIB and Epidemic Sound. Our production managers are Sammy Allison and Kristen Melchiori. Our lawyer is Michael Belkin. Special thanks to Steve Ackerman, Emily Rasek, and Carrie Hartman. Please rate and review The Crimes of Margo Freshwater. It helps people find our show. Sabrina. Corinne. I have been listening to a new show from The Binge called Fatal Fantasy. I am obsessed. Wait, I need to know more. Tell me. Tell me everything. Okay, I will. It's very shocking. It's this like ultra weird crime story of a murder for hire plot that- What? Yeah, wait for it. Leveraged the dynamics of the underworld and underworld being a medieval fantasy game. Wait, so it's live action role-playing gone wrong? Horribly wrong. And you can binge all episodes now. Oh my God, that sounds so good. I know what I'm doing on my drive home today. Search for Fatal Fantasy and subscribe to the Binge Podcast channel on Apple Podcasts or at getthebinge.com. And then once you're done, you can listen to one of the over 60 true crime and investigative podcasts a part of the channel while you wait for the next month's drop. I really need to know what happens. Selfishly, you do so that we can talk about it. So whenever you listen, search for Fatal Fantasy and hit subscribe to The Binge to get all episodes all at once ad-free.