Our Hearts Are in the East: The War, Israeli Democracy & the U.S.–Israel Relationship

I started this session with grounding us in why Israel matters to each of us. But we know that having that conversation with particularly younger folks is often quite difficult. It is hard to find common ground at times. And certainly for me, I'm not willing to make this the thing that breaks or tears the family apart. We need a different approach, or we need more approaches to how we address difficult conversations, conversations that when they're left to simmer may not resolve in ways that we hope or pray for. Welcome to the Pluralized Podcast from both sides of the ocean. I'm Oli Erezlikovsky, Director of the Israel Religious Action Center, and I'm joined by Rabbi Josh Weinberg, Vice President for Israel and Reform Zionism at the Union for Reform Judaism and Director of Artsa. Together we engage thinkers, leaders, educators, activists, and community builders who aren't afraid to wrestle with the tough questions shaping Jewish life today. Through this podcast, we're deepening the conversations that shape our shared future, what Israelis and diaspora Jews can learn from one another, and what we should rightfully expect of each other. So if these conversations matter to you, subscribing really matters to us. It's how this podcast grows and reaches more people. Please subscribe to the Pluralist Podcast on your YouTube page or wherever you're listening to podcasts. We are entering into a new era in U.S.-Israeli relations and looking toward the next Israeli elections, which are at most 10 months away. All this, while internal fissures in Israeli society, similar in some ways to the fissures in American society, are stressing societal ties and raising questions about the values and vision for the nation's future. At the beginning of the ceasefire, during this time of great political and social polarization that the World Zionist Congress met. Thanks to all of you, and I'm sure every single one of you voted, we won the most votes of any slate. We worked the congressional delegations. We worked the congressional delegations even before we got to Jerusalem. We strengthened our alliances with other progressive groups. We reached out and did the legwork needed to build a winning coalition. It was RAC organizing 101 in action on the ground, and it led to amazing results. We were able to stop horrific resolutions proposed by the right, including proposals to extend Israeli sovereignty over the West Bank and the Temple Mount, and another that would have encouraged funding for Christian Zionist organizations. We passed resolutions to prevent money of the World Zionist Organization being spent on settlements in Gaza. We passed resolutions on policies that reflected our values. We called for halting settlements in the area outside Jerusalem known as E-1 to preserve the possibility of two states in the future. We demanded the immediate reopening of direct access to the egalitarian section of the Kotel. We ensured additional security protection for reform and conservative synagogues in Israel so that incidents like the right-wing attack in Ra'anana are not repeated. We called for an equitable draft system in Israel, and we called for the establishment of an independent state commission of inquiry to investigate the political and military failures that enabled Hamas to carry out its horrific massacre on October 7. All of this was remarkable. But what was truly remarkable and truly uplifting and something I never expected was to see the actual votes on these resolutions. Resolutions we opposed were defeated by large margins, and the ones we supported passed overwhelmingly. As Rabbi Josh Weinberg, who we're going to hear from this morning, has written, Our Reform Movement delegation worked to advance a Zionism rooted in pluralism, democracy, and the belief that the state of Israel must reflect the full diversity of the Jewish people. We pushed for those issues because in our listening sessions with congregants across our movement, we heard over and over from people worried about what's happening to democracy and pluralism in Israel. We also heard from people worried about the growing divide between North American and Israeli Jews. As Ruth in Northern California said, I think the reform movement needs to find a way to address the profound intergenerational divide around Israel and the lack of a common language and understanding. We are incredibly lucky this morning to have with us four people to help us to continue to explore the complexities we face and to think about ways to effectively lift our voices with power and impact. I'm delighted to introduce the director of the Israel Religious Action Center, the chief policy officer of the Israel Policy Forum, Michael Toplow, and the URJ's own vice president for Israel and Reform Zionism and executive director of ARTSA, Rabbi Josh Weinberg. And the conversation will be guided by another dear friend, another past URJ board chair and the awe-inspiring chair of ARTSA, Daryl Messinger. Daryl, it's all yours. Thank you, Jen. Thank you. So we have an enormous amount to cover in about 40 minutes, is my guess. We need to cover the state of U.S.-Israel relations, the growing generational divide, and what, in fact, is going on in Israel. And I can't think of three more capable folks to set the stage for our workshops and organizing around our lobbying that will take place tomorrow as we go into our congresspeople's offices and try to persuade them that Israel matters. Michael was very outspoken about the fact that the internal conversation we continue to have about whether and who and how we demonstrate our Zionism to one another, it's distracting us from the more important conversation that we must be having with our friends, our neighbors, our allies who aren't necessarily Jewish or who are. but who are so confused with why we're having this internal debate. And what we need to do is start with our own why. Why does Israel matter for us, for me, and for you? And I know that sometimes I find it hard to get a really crisp answer to that question that will resonate with folks who are not as connected or not in the depth of all the policy and current events that are taking place. And so I want to ask our three experts to start us off. Could you please, so that we can take your words and make them our own, why does Israel matter to you? And Michael, this was your... requests of the Jewish community. All right. I'll try not to take all the good answers. So thank you, Daryl. So, you know, I think for me, the most fundamental reason is that we are links in a chain dating back thousands of years. And much of that chain includes Israel. It includes Israel in our liturgy, in our history, in our culture. And we're fortunate to be living in a time that is actually exceptional in Jewish history. Judaism, I say this to people all the time, and they always find it surprising, but Judaism is a diaspora religion. The Torah was given to the Jews in the diaspora. It was not in the land of Israel. And the Jewish people formed in Egypt. They did not form in the land of Israel. And for most of Jewish history, we haven't had a sovereign Jewish state. The natural condition of the Jews is to live without sovereignty. We're living in a miraculous age. We have a sovereign state in the Jewish homeland. And to not treat that as important, to not make sure that we are in relationship to that state, to not be in relationship to the now 50 percent of the Jewish people who live in that state, I think is a real tragedy to give up that opportunity. So for me, it really is a function of so much of our culture and history and taking advantage of this incredible time in which we live. And lastly, I'll say that we're sitting here on a morning where 12 Jews were killed at a Hanukkah party in Australia. That is also, unfortunately, a common theme of Jewish history. And for thousands of years, Jews prayed and yearned for sovereignty in a Jewish state so that those sorts of things would not happen. And we know that obviously having a state of Israel does not eliminate that, but it does give us an option that thousands of years of our forebears did not have. And I think that's important as well. Orly? Well, first of all, good morning. And I'm just so blessed to be here, especially at this time and with the dark news that we heard this morning. I think just spending the time with all of you really is really, really meaningful for me. So for me, Israel is, first of all, my homeland. I was born in Canada, by the way, but I grew up in Israel. And I think for me, I really aspire to Israel as a light unto nations, a place which is a beacon for justice and democracy and equality and pluralism. And, you know, we at the Israel Religious Action Center have been fighting for many, many, many years, all forms of religious extremism and racism and homophobia and misogyny. because we believe that we must turn Israel into what all of us dream of, right? Because it is not only my homeland, it is the homeland of all Jews. It is your homeland, each and every one of you. And I think what we aspire to do is to really treat all the injustices that we see in Israeli society in order for that to be closer to what we believe it should be. Now, I think that in the face of the growing extremism, especially of the last three years, the presence or the necessity for a liberal Jewish voice has grown, it just become more and more critical. And while on the one hand, we have so many troubling and concerning phenomenon, we see, on the other hand, such an amazing awakening of the Israeli public, which started during the 2023 pro-democracy protest with really an unprecedented global protest. And it's continuing to this day. And we must remember, we have mentioned that Jen mentioned the return of the hostages, that while in the last two years, this has really been our top priority, calling for the lease of all the hostages. And we've been going to the streets protesting at least once a week. And a lot of people told me, well, why do you do it? I mean, who cares? The government doesn't care. It doesn't make a difference. And I said, first of all, it makes a difference to the hostages and their families. And we know that hostages who return said we saw glimpses on television. of the protests. And this is what kept us alive, just knowing that we have not been forgotten. But we also said it matters. It matters to decision makers. And we know that the public pressure mattered. And I think this is a really good news and sort of something hopeful to kick us with, which is we have more power than we think. And even at a very, very dark and troubling time, a lot is in our hands and we can make a difference. And the fact that the hostages are back we can now breathe a little easier and get ready to so many challenges that we're still facing. But remember that we made a difference and we can still continue to make a difference in so many respects. Rabbi. Bukhatov, it's an honor to be here together, an honor to be on this panel with my esteemed colleagues. When I announced to my family in 2003 that I was leaving the United States and making Aliyah, a prominent reform rabbi in my extended family took me to the side and said, I want you to know that America has been good to you. And I said, I'm not a refugee. I said, I'm not running away from, I'm going to. Because Israel was this ideal that is the most exciting project of Jewish history in our modern time. And I was going there to be sort of a disciple of the great cultural Zionist who sort of instilled this notion of living in Jewish time and Jewish space. Jewish time doesn't mean being 10 minutes late for everything. But... Josh, are you sure? I have to check. But living where we are the majority culture in our own language that was revived and now a living, flourishing. And Israel is the greatest contributor to Jewish life, to Jewish culture, to Jewish text, to Jewish learning. And that's what attracted me. And that's at the core of my Zionism. And of course, we have to work in the political atmosphere. And then we as the reform movement are evolving what it means to be Jewish in the Jewish state and trying to constantly challenge that. And it also gives us this new opportunity to change the paradigms between Israel and the diaspora and that we have so much to learn from one another in our own unique experiences But for me the reason that Israel matters so much is that opportunity to live in that majority culture in Jewish time and Jewish space and work out what it means to have our own sort of complete Jewish society. Thank you. You know, when I find myself speaking in a congregation or a camp, I'm often surprised at how many folks believe the reform movement is not Zionist. And nothing can be further from the truth. I think you all understand that. We love Israel, but we don't necessarily love everything about it. Or it's government. Or the government, right? Or in this case, the government. And we very much want to see an Israel that reflects our reform Jewish Zionist values, a secure Jewish, democratic, inclusive Israel that is at peace, has a path to peace with all of its neighbors, its Palestinian neighbors, its Arab neighbors. everyone in the region having the opportunity to pursue their own self-determination. And with that, we're going to go to the Hill this week and on Monday. And Michael, we're going to have Israel as one of the issues we'll be lobbying on and including foreign aid to Israel and humanitarian aid to Palestinians, as well as trying to find ways to stop the terrible West Bank settler violence that we see. And historically, Israel has enjoyed broad bipartisan support in the Congress. We all know that is eroding from both sides, from left and the right. The left, progressive far left, doesn't see Israel sharing our values, their values any longer. And on the right, they're not so sure that Israel is a security of importance from a U.S. security perspective. So from your vantage point, what's different today than the past? Is it simply that there's erosion or is there something fundamentally changed in the nature of U.S.-Israel relationships, whether it's government to government, government to people, people to people? I think we are seeing a shift, but it's going to take some time to play out. And hopefully it's a shift that can be arrested. There are really three things that the U.S.-Israel relationship rests upon, interest, values and public opinion. And, you know, as Daryl noted, when you look at the right side of the political aisle, where they are generally more attuned to the interests part of the equation, we're seeing all sorts of doubts coming not yet as much from elected Republicans, but certainly from many people who are influential in the Republican sphere. many doubts that Israel actually still is something that the U.S. should support, whether because we're entering into this new neo-isolationist movement or because there are absolutely anti-Semitic strains within some of the right that filters into right-wing foreign policy. But on the interest side of this, it's taking a hit in a way that we haven't really seen since before the Cold War. On the left side, where there's generally more attention paid to the value side of this, there are doubts about Israel as a democracy. Certainly the last two years of war in Gaza have put even more strain on this. Democrats are very attuned to what is happening in the West Bank in terms of settlements, in terms of settler violence, in terms of treatment of Palestinians writ large. And so we see this increasing idea that not only is Israel not the only democracy in the Middle East, it's not a democracy at all. And when we look at public opinion, which has always really, I think, bolstered U.S. support for Israel, no matter who's president, no matter who's in charge of Congress, and no matter what's going on, because Israel has always been popular with Americans. This idea that support for Israel has really always been pushing on an open door comes from polling of Americans over decades. And we're starting to see that erode as well. And that's largely tied to the war in Gaza. I think we'll probably see some of those numbers tick back up over time, especially if the ceasefire holds. But we look at all these three things, and they're all under threat to one degree or another. So I don't think the U.S.-Israel relationship is transformed yet. But it's also it's not it's not going to act right when I think there's a lot of attention paid to the loudest voices. And when you are up on the hill this week, you'll see that members of Congress are still very, very broadly pro-Israel. But there are definitely dangers out there. And I think it's important to keep on making the case for Israel on our side of the ocean and on the other side of the ocean to really impress upon our Israeli friends and colleagues that things are changing here. And it isn't just a matter of anti-Semitism. It isn't just a matter of perception. It's a matter of Israeli policy. And I think that Israelis need to hear more from Americans about how Israeli policies are putting us at risk, but also putting the U.S.-Israel relationship at risk. And that's a beautiful segue to Orly. And Orly, I'd love to spend more time now unpacking what you are experiencing in Israel, particularly in your role as head of the Israel Religious Action Center, and some of the experiences you've encountered, really quite terrible experiences personally, of violence, racism, discrimination, and how you, in your role and as the reform movement in Israel, are trying to address some of these societal ills. So, yeah, we have been facing a very, very difficult month. I mean, years, but especially the last few months. I said before that we are breathing easier now that the hostages are back, But unfortunately, the government gives us a lot of reasons to be concerned about. I think one of the major harms that the government, and specifically Netanyahu, has caused to Israeli society is the normalization of hatred. I know that you find it very familiar here. But, Daryl, you mentioned that I personally felt it in the pogrom in Rahana now, the screening of the joint Israeli-Palestinian Memorial Day ceremony just before Yom Ha'atzma'ut. And I've seen a lot of hatred in my life. I've been to so many protests, but I've never felt anything like that, which was really a personal attack on me and dozens of other people by a violent mob of hundreds of people who were there to beat us up just because we were trying to watch something that they did not like, which is the whole concept of democracy. and this was shocking. It was shocking also because, of course, no one from the government condemned it. And by the way, the condemnation of the centrist parties was also very, very lame, but also because it was carried out by people who wore Likud shirts. So what used to be on the fringes of Israeli society in the last century with Meir Kahana has become, you know, center stage. So this is our government calling for hatred, legitimizing violence. And of course, they're doing it on so many levels, right? Whether it's on the streets or on the media, and of course, in the Knesset. And on the one hand, it's truly, truly concerning. But on the other hand, I think especially the Ra'anana event was a watershed moment for Israeli society because it showed people what we are up against. So people understand they cannot stay silent. They have to pick a side. It's either they're with the government or they have to pick a side against the government. And so many people came to us and said, we are with you. We just, we had a service at the Reform Synagogue in Rana two days later and hundreds of people came who had, were not familiar with the Reform Movement, but they said, we are with you because we're not willing to accept this and to let this happen. We are seeing now an unbelievable amount of bills pushed through the Knesset as part of the regime coup, bills that want to take power from the attorney general. Just today, by the way, the Supreme Court of Israel abolished the firing of the attorney general by the government and the justice ministry already declared he's not going to respect this decision. So they're trying to change the law to actually take powers from our main gatekeeper. They're trying to pass a law reinstating death penalty, but only for Palestinian terrorists. terrorists, believe it or not. It's like having here a death penalty for blacks only. They're going to give more powers to rabbinical courts to deal with civil matters. And they want to push for a law that is going to tax civil society organizations that are being funded by foreign governments unless they sign a commitment not to criticize Israeli government. So that's just a few examples. And each week we have to face dozens of more bills and we are spending countless hours in the Knesset trying to oppose those issues. And that's, again, we see how they're working both on a substantial level and procedurally. I mean, they are just pushing it. They're not letting anybody speak against it. And obviously, this is very dangerous. In addition, we see other phenomena such as the settler violence in the West Bank that has really reached unbelievable magnitude. And it's important for us to raise a Jewish voice against this and against all the phenomenon that I've just mentioned. And I think a lot of Israelis are looking for this voice because as the government becomes more extreme, people are looking for something else. So what we're doing is not only fighting this, but also presenting Israelis with an alternative vision and giving Israelis the Jewish knowledge to understand that what the government is doing is not only undemocratic, it's also not Jewish. Okay, the death penalty contradicts our Jewish tradition All they're trying to do, which is bring themselves like, you know, unrestricted power is not a Jewish thing. Of course, taking the rights from everyone, from so many people, from so many sectors is not Jewish. And I think this is really an amazing opportunity for Reform Judaism in Israel because people are looking for this voice. They're looking for a Jewish voice that would allow them to feel Jewish and liberal at the same time and really reject the twisted form of Judaism that the government is presenting. Thank you, Orly. And I want to turn to Josh and then come back to you because, you know, I hear these incidents, this erosion of the rule of law, this usurpation of Jewish values for really hateful means and purposes. And I know it can get to be harder and harder to show up and defend Israel in our own local spaces. Certainly, it might be harder tomorrow in Congress. And Josh, you do this every day, day in and day out. So give us strategies that you think are helpful. And without diminishing what are significant issues inside Israel's society and with this current Israeli government, how do we stand up for Israel effectively? There's a great challenge of being a liberal Zionist today. And I think the first comparison that we need to make is to the situation here in the United States. My guess is if I did a survey of all of us here in the room, most of us may not be diehard supporters of the current administration. Yet, yet we find ourselves deeply patriotic American citizens and Canadian and feel a sense of belonging and identification with and a love of our country. And that doesn't have to be a contradiction in terms. OK, and the same should apply to Israel. OK, so that's that's number one. That's critically important, that we can love Israel, defend its right to exist, defend its right to defend itself, okay? And say we have some real serious issues and we have some, you know, opposition and protest to the current government policies and many of the things that are playing out as Orly correctly described. The second thing that's critically important is knowledge. I believe Michael mentioned that also. I hear from so many people, from our young people to even professional Jewish educators who say to me, you know, I feel like I just don't know enough to have this conversation or to show up in spaces. And my response is, OK, what are you doing about that? OK, that's a remediable problem. OK, that, of course, we have to continue to revamp and refresh and reimagine our curricula in our schools and what we teach in our camps, et cetera. But we have to show up with knowledge. We cannot afford that. We cannot give that up to our political opponents or ideological people on the other side of the political spectrum. We have to be able to show up and know it. The third thing I want to say is that we need to amplify our Israeli reform voices. Okay, that is critically important. Okay and there no better than Orly but we have of course we have 54 congregations in Israel We have a thriving youth movement a pre preparatory course of all these people who are going through our system who own that space as Israeli reformed Jews who are Zionists and who are liberal and who are trying to change Israeli society for the good. The last thing I want to say about this is that the more that we send our young people to Israel for a longer time at a younger age, they're going to come back and engage in this in a serious and critical way. And that's what we need to do as much as we possibly can. Thank you. Orly, can you give this audience one, two, three, no more, specific actions they should take that would help support the Israel Religious Action Center, IRAC? Yeah, for sure. Well, first of all, continuing on what Josh has said, I think the first thing is really be informed. And you have amazing sources. You have all the newsletters that are here. There's actually a signup sheet for IREX News that are outside. I have a podcast that actually this season, me and Josh are hosting a podcast together. I think really having, you know, reliable sources on what's going on in Israel on each and every week is really, really important. And then the next thing is really be involved. So the WCC elections was really an unbelievable example of where you were involved and helped us, you know, fight for a liberal Israel. And I'm so thankful for each and every one of you. It was really heartwarming. I was also in the States in March and just saw how much effort so many people have put into this. And we are really so grateful for that. And I think that really sort of spreading the word to other people about understanding the nuanced and, you know, complex approach about how things are, because I think a lot of people hold very binary and simplistic versions of reality that makes it hard for people to, as John said, sort of criticize Israel and still love Israel at the same time. I think really telling people about what Iraq is doing, all of our struggles for a better Israel could help people who maybe feel alienated connect to Israel. And of course, if you're willing to support or you know anybody who's willing to support us, that would be, of course, so welcoming. With upcoming elections, we should say that if you know any Israeli citizen, please tell them to come and vote because we don't have absentee voting. So we need all the votes possible to really bring about a different government and a better future. I am hoping we'll touch on elections here in just a few minutes. I want to turn to Michael now and talk about the devastation in Gaza, the clear humanitarian crisis there, that Israel Policy Forum was really one of the early folks out there talking about the humanitarian crisis, the significant food shortage, looking for day-after solutions and plans and meaningful recommendations for humanitarian aid, investing in new Palestinian leadership by bolstering and engaging with the Palestinian Authority. Israel Policy Forum has been out in front on a number of these issues and also calling out some of the atrocities. Michael, from your perspective, you're going to Israel, you said, tonight. What do you hope to learn about the status of what looks like a U.S. government run or military run operation in Gaza, the status of humanitarian aid and the prospects for true Palestinian leadership in the region? So it's a quick trip. I'm only going to be on the ground for three days. And much of what I'm trying to do is actually get at this question as to what exactly is going on. Because we're now at this, in some ways, an inflection point and in some ways, almost a roadblock where we had this 20-point plan that was announced. And it, for now, seems to have ended the Gaza war. And even though the plan wasn't set up in terms of specific phases, it indeed had phases. And we're now basically at the end of phase one. When Ran Gvili's body is returned home to Israel, the first stage of the ceasefire will be done. And that means that you have to move on to the next stage. But whether that's happening and how it can actually move forward is in many ways unclear for all sorts of reasons that if we had three hours sitting up here, I wouldn't even be able to do exhaustively. But much of what I'm trying to do over the rest of this week is meeting with top U.S. and Israeli officials and U.N. officials in the region and try to figure out, you know, what exactly is going on with humanitarian assistance? Who is actually in charge right now? There are some reports that it is Kogat, the IDF. There are some reports that the United States has taken it over, but nobody actually seems to be sure. You have all sorts of things that are supposed to be happening, but aren't for reasons that are sometimes connected to what's on the ground in Gaza and what's not. To give one example that's been in the news the last couple of days, there was a very big storm in Israel and the Palestinian territories, Storm Byron, that caused flooding, caused deaths even in Israel, but more deaths in Gaza. And one of the issues was that there weren't enough tents. there weren't enough tents, not necessarily because Israel was blocking them from the crossings. It's because they were sitting in Jordan and the Allenby bridge crossing was closed following an attack by Jordanians that killed two IDF reservists a month ago. And so, you know, even something like that, which doesn't seem necessarily related to what's going on in Gaza, obviously has an impact. And so a lot of what we're trying to do is figure out where the roadblocks are and how they can be unblocked, and more importantly, how U.S. policy can help move some of these things forward. So, Michael, I think it was two weeks ago. It might have been last week. I'm a little lost track of time. I'm going to turn the tables on you. At an IPF gala in New York, you asked your advisors, or Rachel, your associate, She had asked our our council members, our advisors, if you had five minutes with President Trump, what would you want to tell him he should do? In Israel. And I think I think I think I'd have to I think I'd have to put some put some temptations to the to the side. So if I had a couple of minutes with President Trump just on Israel, I think I would stress to him just how much everything that's going on is connected. Because oftentimes what you see, certainly from Israelis, but also even in the U.S. political sphere, you oftentimes see this idea that these various things are not connected, right? So the problem in Gaza is one thing and problems in the West Bank are another thing, and they don't really have anything to do with each other. And the larger regional picture is largely divorced from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which is something that President Trump himself, I think, aspirationally tried to cement in place with the Abraham Accords. And ultimately, these things absolutely are connected. When we think about how to solve issues in Gaza, they start with the Palestinian Authority, because that's the only alternative to Hamas. Palestinian politics is a two-party system. If you don't like one guy, you got to go with the other guy. And the Palestinian Authority is in no shape to do anything in Gaza until problems are addressed in the West Bank, both in terms of things that the Israeli government does to make it almost impossible for the PA to operate. And also things that the PA does, that it has to reform itself, because if you let the PA into Gaza tomorrow, it would collapse. And when we look at the wider region, this too is related to what's happening in Gaza and the West Bank. The idea that somehow, you know, some months or some years will pass and then Saudi normalization will just magically happen. It is not correct. And so making sure that there is a holistic policy for all of this and understanding that these things are all linked and that things that the Israeli government does in the West Bank have a negative impact in Gaza and have a negative impact throughout the wider region. I think it's important for the president to understand and to figure out how you deal with the micro issues, the really important day-to-day things that have to be solved in the here and now, but also connect them to the larger picture so that ultimately we can have a two-state outcome between Israel and the Palestinians and we can have an Israel that is welcomed by all of its neighbors in the region. It should be God's will. Orly, you mentioned that elections are no more than 10 months away, though. there's always fear that something will intercede and somehow change that. Can you break out your crystal ball? And Michael, maybe you will as well. And Josh, what will be the key election issues? And what can we expect to see when the votes are cast? Yes, first of all, the elections are going to be on next October at the latest. They could be earlier if the Knesset fails to pass an annual budget by the end of March or because of the issue of the exemption from army service for the ultra-Orthodox, which is a really interesting issue because it's really supported. The enlistment of Haredim is supported by across the board, across the political spectrum, including a lot of coalition voters. So Netanyahu has a big problem around that between the ultra-Orthodox parties that are not willing to give up exemption from Army Service and the voters, the majority, the huge majority of Israelis, over 70 percent, who say we must not give them an exemption. I think that usually people go and vote in Israel on security issues. But an interesting thing to note in this regard is that while on the one hand, after October 7th, a lot of Israelis have become more hawkish, right, more right wing or in general distrustful or believing in a possibility of a two state solution, definitely in the near future. But on the other hand, Israelis are not stupid. And so they understand that going back to October 6th and what Netanyahu has been doing for many years, which is managing the conflict and really not doing anything, trying to solve it, is not a solution either. So people understand, a majority of Israelis understand that needs to be a political solution to the conflict and not a military solution. OK, people are not in favor of resettling Gaza. What Smotrich wants to do is like a very small segment of Israeli society. And so I think this is a really interesting finding and sort of optimistic in that people understand that in the long run, we need to strive for a political solution, which obviously the right wing does not offer us. And when we see in every poll conducted after October 7, there wasn't one poll in which the coalition had a majority. OK, so it's clear that Netanyahu in the current coalition is not going to have a majority. Of course, the other side is that the liberal camp is very, very, very badly disorganized and does some really stupid political choices and expressions. OK. And so we know that in the previous elections, it was really the huge mistake of some of the liberal parties that have not been, you know, ran together. And that's why we lost so many votes of parties that did not cross the threshold. So obviously now, too, we have too many parties on the liberal side and they must unite. And I do hope that we'll have less parties when we go to the elections and also that they reconsider their position. For instance, right, Bennett, who is now the major contestant to replace Netanyahu, according to the polls, kept saying he's not going to sit in a coalition with Arab parties, including Mansour Abbas, who was part of his former coalition. Yair Lapid said Nobody who is not enlisting to the army Should have a right to vote Which is against the Haredim But it's also against the Palestinian citizens of Israel By the way, he also supported The expulsion of a member of Knesset Ayman Oda from the Knesset Which did not have any base Legal base And I was actually there in the Knesset Trying to persuade people not to vote for it And thankfully he was not expelled But it doesn't make any political sense So I do hope that there would be an understanding that without the Arab parties, there is no chance of actually replacing Netanyahu. Okay, we don't have other options. Otherwise, we would have another political deadlock like we had in the four election processes preceding the previous ones. So we must understand that we need to have a Jewish and Arab alliance. I think, of course, that, you know, from a value-based position, this is what we should strive for. But at least some of the centrist parties should understand that politically, there is no other thing that makes sense. So I do hope that we would be able to pose an alternative. We are very concerned that there's going to be voter suppression really on a large scale for the first time. This is something that you had a lot of problems here on voting rights. It wasn't just to be an issue in Israel until a few years ago. OK, but now it's clear that the current coalition, as any, you know, autocrats all over the world, is going to do whatever they can to stay in power. And this means they're going to suppress voting of the Palestinian citizens of Israel, including, you know, closing ballots with, you know, saying, oh, if there's too much violence, gang violence in Arab cities, so let's close down the ballots. and we are going to take part in it and encouraging as many congregation members as possible to be observers in balance and to do whatever we can to make sure that the elections are free and fair because obviously that the condition to actually bringing about some change So Josh what can we do as American Jews not expat Israelis who care about the outcome of these elections What are the types of things we might be thinking about as we look to these elections in the next year? So what Orly alluded to earlier, and as we prepare to launch our major campaign here to get every vote and every voice for the midterm elections in 2026, we're going to do the same in Israel, by the way. And Orly mentioned, of course, that there's no absentee ballots. So we're going to be partnering with our friends in the AID coalition, a coalition of Israeli-American expats who are pro-democracy, to try and bring as many Israeli expats to vote in Israel on election day. We're going to be calling on many of our captains and our leaders from our congregations and from our various communities across North America to help mobilize and to help identify those people who might be eligible to vote and to encourage them to go and do so. Because they have a right to do that and their voices need to be heard as well. That's critically important as well. And we need to also support the efforts of Iraq on the ground in terms of encouraging that pro-democracy efforts and those, you know, whether it's protesting specific bills that are in the Knesset right now and making sure that we amplify the voices of those who represent our values. Of course, in a nonpartisan way that we, of course, as our movement, we don't endorse candidates or parties, but we can support the general issues that are critically important and that are advancing a greater sense of democracy in Israel. So we need to be doing that, too. And we need to be working within our own avenues, within the national institutions, the Jewish Agency, the World Zionist Organization, Kakao, the JNF, to be able to strengthen those ties to democracy and to the values that we uphold. I'm going to be closing up this session and some of the classic questions we've been asking. But before I get to those questions and then Josh's call to action, we know, and I started this session with grounding us and why Israel matters to each of us. But we know that having that conversation with particularly younger folks is often quite difficult. I know personally, our family has had very difficult, difficult conversations around Israel. It is hard to find common ground at times. and certainly for me, I'm not willing to make this the thing that breaks or tears the family apart. Each of you have had conversations with folks that feel and believe very differently than you do and they tend to be with folks that are younger, though I don't want to characterize everyone younger as Stan's, in a different place. But we need a different approach or we need more approaches to how we address difficult conversations, conversations that when they're left to simmer may not resolve in ways that we hope or pray for. So I'd like to ask each of you what suggestions you have to improve those communications and to continue to bring those who feel they are outside our tent in. So I'm going to start with Michael because I know Israel Policy Forum has a very unusual program, one of the most effective programs of bringing next-gen leaders together across the political divide to talk among themselves and to lead one another. And rather than having, you know, old people like me tell them how they should be thinking and feeling. So say a little bit about IPF Fatid and what you see working and so forth. Sure. So IPF Fatid is our young leadership initiative. We have chapters in seven cities, about to be eight cities. And as Daryl said, it's incredibly successful. And what we find is that the types of people, and it's all young leaders who attend our events, who serve on our steering committees, they come from across the spectrum. We have people on our steering committees who are leaders in J Street, and we have people on the same steering committees who are leaders in Stand With Us. And so these folks all come together and they're able to have a conversation. And what we found, and it's a very Israel policy forum thing, is that what they like is to have deep policy discussions. And if you give them the opportunity and you provide the space for them to really discuss issues deeply without putting any ideological requirements out there up top, without limiting what they can discuss, without actually giving them something substantive to discuss. A lot of these events revolve around reports we've put out or they have very robust book clubs. They don't want to get together and just hang out and exchange pleasantries. They actually want to get deep in the weeds and really think through the issues. And they go in and they come out understanding that they're not going to necessarily agree on any of the issues. Maybe they're not going to agree on anything at all. But just the fact that they're able to come together and have something really deep and substantive to discuss turns out to be a winning formula. And I think that what we're seeing over time and what I really hope we'll see even more of over time is that engaging in these issues builds people's connections to Israel and really strengthens their Zionism. And they're going to be very different forms of Zionism. Some of them are going to be liberal Zionists and some of them are not going to be liberal about anything. But they're able to come together and really connect over a shared feeling of importance about Israel and its future and its role in American Jewish identity. And it isn't necessarily for everybody, but, you know, for the populations we serve, it's been a really effective mechanism. 8,000 folks last year or this year, 2025, participated in ATEED programs. So it's a definite segment here that is being addressed. Orly? You know, I think it's, I do agree that it's sort of a generational divide in the sense that more young people find it hard to relate to Israel. And I think obviously it's because of the reason that this generation, including my children, don't know anything other than an Israel under Netanyahu. Okay, we just commemorated not long ago, this is 30 years since the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin. And like for them, it's history, right? So it's they don't remember a peace seeking Israel. And that's why the basic connection is much harder. And I actually think that speaking to them about what we are doing, what Iraq is doing and what other civil society organizations are doing in Israel could actually reconnect them because actually pointing to the people who are working to promote the values that they agree with. And as just said, sort of not pulling away, but actually leaning in to help those who are trying to change, that could maybe help them to reconnect. And I think when you do it like your program, when you do it actually by maybe getting them together with young Israelis, their age, that could maybe help them to be more sort of receptive to those values and could sort of open maybe a deep conversation. First of all, let's just acknowledge that this is really hard. It's really hard. And it's often painful and it's often deeply personal. And so I want to suggest, first of all, that we often get defensive and we often, you know, put up barriers. And we want to tell people that are saying things that are difficult for us to internalize that they're wrong or that they don't know what they're talking about. That might not be the best approach. Take it from me, it's not. I want to invoke our Jewish tradition that reminds us why we have two ears and one mouth. And I want to suggest that the first thing that we can do, and this is the question that I guess more than anything else, when I visit our congregations, visit our summer camps, conferences, wherever we are, people are really struggling with this. So I want to say, first of all, you know how Zoom sometimes tries to, you know, impersonate real life? So let's try in real life impersonating Zoom and try and use the mute button and just listen. And just listen to what they're saying. And when you're about to say, well, wait a minute, what about in the Palestinian? Just listen some more. Just listen. All right. And that's critically important. I had the opportunity to visit some of our summer camps, URJ summer camps this summer, and sitting around a campfire or at the Chadarochel over a meal and to say, you know, I'm just here to listen. And some people wouldn't talk to me because I have the term Zionist in my title. And they say, it's impossible. You won't listen to us. And I said, you know, try me. and many of our other faculty, our clergy and our Jewish professionals are sitting here. We want to hear you because you are literally our family and you're part of our movement and you grew up here and we need to embrace those people and keep them in our doors and in our movement and to show them that we deeply care and we understand that they also deeply care. So that's critically important is to listen. I then also try not to react to specific issues. Let's not debate whether or not the ceasefire was good or whether Israel should have gone into Rafiach or the policy in the West Bank. Let's take a step back. And there are three questions that I like to ask and I want to suggest may be helpful. The first question is, what were some formative moments that led you to believe what you believe? How did you get to where you are today? Tell your story a little bit. Even if they're your own literal children who grew up in your house, Right? Who, where were you influenced? What did you read? What professor did you meet? What, you know, et cetera. The second question is, what are your fears? What are you deeply worried that is going to happen? Oh, I'm worried about those things too. And the third question is, what are your hopes? What do you want to have happen? We often ask what gives you hope, But I want to ask, what do you hope for? What's your dream? Oh, you want peace. You want a two-state solution. You want an end to terrorism. We want those things too. Wow. And then the fourth issue is, you know, what actions do we have to take collectively to prevent our fears from coming true and to help achieve our dreams? I think those are, you know, some good suggestions. Hopefully you'll be able to take those and apply them in conversation. So. We're we're at time. I want to thank each of our panelists as as Josh closes us out for all your insights and for all that you are doing. So we're getting as many expat Israelis to fly over and vote in the election year, you know, next year, whenever it'll be. We'll let you know. OK. The next thing is that we are going to be joining with Iraq in various campaigns, especially to preserve the status of liberal Jews, reform and conservative movements as they may come under attack in the current government, whether it's over personal status issues like conversion or marriage or even the recognition of reform rabbis in Israel or other personal Jewish identity issues. We're going to be pushing very hard for that. And then the next thing, you're going to be seeing a renewed effort and a more systematic way of partnering with our Israeli congregations in Israel. Okay? It's one thing to have a relationship with Israel, but we want you also to have a relationship with Israelis. So stay tuned. Go back to your congregation and say, what does it look like for us right now? Do we have a significant partnership with one of our IMPJ congregations? so we can begin to have that dialogue and understand why our efforts here are so critically important. And of course, it is not too late to send your teens to Israel this summer on Yala Israel. We need hundreds and hundreds of our young people coming and joining us. And of course, our semester at URJ Heller High, please, please, please, we will make sure that you have all the information. And I can't thank you enough for being the power, for being the people out in the field, making all of these happen. Toda Rabah. Yeah, I know we're out of time, but I want you, Josh mentioned your phones. Could each one of you take your phone and turn the flashlight on and just hold your hand up above you? This is what we do a lot of time in the protests in Israel. And, you know, the protests are on Shabbat, Mosei Shabbat. it's dark and we are seeing all those lights and today is the first light of Hanukkah we are each of one of us there is small light but together we are a huge light and we can drive away darkness so I want you to feel this this power that we have both in Israel and in here and this amazing power gives us strength to continue and this is what fills me with hope and we know that we can drive away darkness so thank you so much