U.S. blockade of Iranian ports underway; U.S. sending thousands more troops to the Middle East

If you dread dealing with your insurance more than getting stuck in an elevator with an overshare. Being burrito for lunch. You have insura noia. You should have NJM. They go to great lengths to do what's best for their policyholders. Insurance underwritten by NJM Insurance Company and its subsidiaries. As President Trump continues implementing his ambitious agenda, follow along with the MS Now Newsletter, Project 47. You'll get weekly updates sent straight to your inbox with expert analysis on the administration's latest actions and how they're affecting the American people. The American people are basically telling the president that they are not OK with any of this. Sign up for the Project 47 Newsletter at MS.Now slash Project 47. You keep saying was, is this war over? I think it's close to over. I mean, I view it as very close to over. You know what? If I pulled up stakes right now, it would take them 20 years to rebuild that country. And we're not finished. We'll see what happens. I think they want to make a deal very badly. President Trump claiming again that the war with Iran is close to ending. There is new reporting this morning that more troops are headed to the region. It comes after the State Department hosted the first high level talks between Israeli and Lebanese government officials in more than 30 years. We'll go through all of the developments tied to the Middle East. Meanwhile, the president is once again criticizing the Pope while Vice President J.D. Vance shared his own critiques of the Pontiffs yesterday. And despite a bitter history between Democratic Congresswoman Ilan Omar and former Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, Omar is calling on Democrats to embrace the once outspoken supporter of the president. We'll play for you those comments and talk about why they matter. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Wednesday, April 15th. What does that mean, Lamir? Tax day, Mika. Yes. Yes, it is. Not a good one. No. With us, we have the co-host of our nine a.m. hour staff writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lamir, and White House reporter for Axias Mark Caputo joins us. OK, let's dive right in. The United States military blockade of Iranian ports is now stretching into its third day as the White House continues its bid to put economic pressure on Tehran. U.S. Central Command said yesterday that no ships made it past the blockade in the first 24 hours, adding that six merchant vessels had complied with directions by radio from U.S. forces to turn around and re-enter Iranian ports. Although it did not identify the ships or the ports, SENTCOM also noted the mission involves 10,000 American troops, more than a dozen warships and an array of aircraft. As the Pentagon publicly portrays confidence in the blockade, there are signals, however. Some ships may be testing the waters. The New York Times reports citing ship tracking data that one vessel under U.S. sanctions, the Chinese tanker Rich Starrie, traveled eastward through the strait yesterday before turning around. Another Iran-linked ship also appeared to make it through the strait during the blockade, but the paper notes the vessel was offline yesterday, so it was not clear what its path had been. The Wall Street Journal cites two U.S. officials who say more than 20 commercial ships not linked to Iran have passed through the strait over the past day, a fraction of what it was before the war, but an improvement in flow through the critical waterway. Meanwhile, the Washington Post reports the Pentagon is sending thousands of additional troops to the Middle East in the coming days. According to U.S. officials who spoke to the Post, the move is designed to pressure Iran into a deal. The Trump administration is still considering additional strikes or possible ground operations if the ceasefire does not hold. Current and former officials tell the paper about 6,000 more troops will be added to the already assembled 50,000 personnel in the region. That all comes as behind-the-scenes talks to set up more in-person negotiations between the United States and Iran continue. President Trump said yesterday negotiations could resume over the next two days, possibly being held once again in Pakistan's capital. So, Joe, let's talk about the blockade, what these developments mean, and then we'll get to the issue of troops heading there. Well, you know, talking to people in the region yesterday, U.S. allies said, again, may have been reluctant originally for us to go to war, but after we went to war saying we've got to finish the job, there was a growing unease that the United States was going to get a bad deal in Islamabad. There was a growing unease that the president may come home, bring the troops home before getting the job done. They are actually very positive about the blockade and have signed on to what I am sure historians will long remember as the Haas plan. The Richard Haas plan, which Richard 10 days ago started saying, it's all or nothing. You either let all of the ships go in and out of the strait or you let none of them go out. They believe the dynamics have changed radically and that Iran went from having time on their side to Iran now understanding they are going to have to eventually come to a deal. Because as we've always said from the beginning of this war, the military targets have been hit in Iran, a good number of them. But economically, Iran was doing better, trading oil and moving their oil across the globe and getting good money for it than they had in years. That's now changed. So the attitude not only inside the administration but also among a lot of Gulf allies now is they are degraded radically when it comes to their military operations and now they are really starting to feel the heat economically if the United States, they say, will continue the blockade. A lot of other things happening. Let's bring in contributing editor at the Financial Times, Kim Gattas. Kim, we can talk about the blockade, we can talk about the troops coming in, but of course what is also fascinating is direct talks now between Lebanon and Israel. Tell us about that, the prospects of it, and if it may bring an end to the suffering that's going on in your country. Good morning, Joe. Great to be with you. We saw talks yesterday at the US State Department in the presence of the US Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, between the Lebanese ambassador to Washington and the Israeli ambassador to Washington. There in the picture, Nadeh Hamadi, the Lebanese ambassador, the woman, and also in the presence of the US ambassador to Lebanon. And I mentioned the Israeli ambassador to Washington. It is a first since the 1980s when Lebanon negotiated an agreement with Israel after Israel had invaded Lebanon and gone all the way up to Beirut. So yet again, Lebanon is negotiating a ceasefire or negotiating or beginning a process, as Marco Rubio said, to discuss a potential ceasefire between Lebanon and Israel. But the circumstances are very different because the war is still ongoing, although it's decreased somewhat in intensity at the moment, I think at the request of the United States. And it is a very difficult and somewhat controversial move in Lebanon itself to negotiate under fire with Israel at this moment in time. It is important though, because Lebanon's never really had a seat at the table in regional negotiations, it has never really been able to speak in its own name. It has always been either under the control of Syria, which occupied Lebanon for 30 years, or more recently, it has been subjected to sort of Iranian pressure, which wants to take over negotiations or Lebanon's seat at the table. And so although I think this process is going to be very difficult and we can get into the details, the key about this is that Lebanon is at the table and not on the menu and certainly not part of Iran's own negotiating track. It's important for Lebanon to show up as a sovereign country to the extent that it can. Can I ask you to put some context to what we're seeing in America, where we see Netanyahu's endless war continue. We see the bombing of Lebanon. We see the suffering out of that that's coming from that bombing. Can you put some context to it? At the beginning of this war, you talked about how many people in Lebanon very angry at Hezbollah for dragging the country into the war with some of the things they Hezbollah said and did. I'm curious, what's your best take from what you're hearing on the ground on how successful this bombing campaign is in degrading Hezbollah's effectiveness versus the civilian casualties that seem to be piling up? The civilian casualties are piling up. Last week, we had a day of carnage in Beirut, just as the ceasefire with Iran was coming into effect. We had 100 strikes in just 10 minutes across the country, a country the size of Connecticut. Many of them focused on Beirut. I had friends who were affected, whose apartment building was hit, friends of friends who lost their parents. It was really devastating for Lebanon, as I said also. Not only is it a small country, but we've been through so much over the last few years, including a war with Israel between Hezbollah and Israel, which affects the whole of Lebanon just a year and a half ago. Even during the period of the ceasefire, which was attained in November of 2024 between Lebanon and Israel, since then and the eruption of this war, Israeli strikes continued. Lebanon feels that it is really stuck between this Israeli bombing campaign to try to degrade or decapitate Hezbollah, which is an endless task if you don't have politics and diplomacy to accompany it, stuck between that and stuck between Iran's holding on to one of its key negotiating cards in the region with the United States, which is Hezbollah, a Shia militant group in Lebanon, which is also a political party in the country. So Lebanon feels very much stuck between those two. And going forward, yes, Lebanon will be at the table. But the concern in Lebanon is that Israel is not going to stop striking the country. And so the Lebanese government may risk being seen with those negotiations as giving cover to those strikes. And that is going to be a very, very difficult balance to manage. Cam, the next question I ask is going to sound like a leading question. It is not a leading question. I'm just curious. We see these strikes against departments. We see these strikes against residential areas from Israel, from Netanyahu's forces into Lebanon, and we hear that they're degrading Hezbollah. Of course, when Vladimir Putin does that in Ukraine, we all rightly call it a war crime. I'm curious, when you're talking about your relatives and your friends and friends of friends who have lost their parents, the innocent civilians who are being killed here, I need to better understand what does Benjamin Netanyahu think he's doing in degrading Hezbollah by having these random strikes? What is Israel's logic? How does bombing apartments in the middle of Lebanon, how does that degrade Hezbollah? I want to be very careful with how I answer this question, because some of these strikes are not random. And certainly Israel insists that they are not random, that they were targeting very specific Hezbollah members or commanders. And in many cases, that is indeed what happened, that in some of these civilian neighborhoods, members of Hezbollah, relatives of high-ranking commanders. In one case, we had IRGC, you know, Islamic Revolutionary Guards of Iran, checked into a hotel. That is why the anger in Lebanon is growing is because members of Hezbollah are operating across many parts of the country where they don't usually operate. That does not justify targeting areas that are civilian. That does lead you into terrain of illegality. And the civilian toll is very real. So Israel can justify that as what they call collateral damage. But those are lives that are being taken. And that should, you know, not have people who should not have died. And so it's a very difficult balance, as I said. Lebanon really feels stuck between Israel's military advantage and capacity. And Iran and Hezbollah's disregard for the Lebanese civilian toll. Let me ask you a final question. This war began on February 27th. This morning, our time this afternoon, your time. What is your feeling about the ebb and flow of this war, where it's going? Who, based on your reporting through the region, where Iran sits, where the United States and Israel sits, are we any closer to resolution? Very hard to say at the moment. You know, we had the discussion at the beginning of this war where I came in and said, you know, it looks successful. It looks, you know, the military is doing all these, you know, great strikes, etc. But we'll have to see how it evolves. Wars are judged not by how they begin, but how they end. It looks like a little bit of a mess at the moment. It's a little bit unclear. I think the fact that more troops are going to the US is an indicator that we could resume. I think that when President Trump says it could be over, but almost over, it's not quite clear in his mind. You know, it's a discussion between him and himself also about how he wants this to proceed. We have to see how allies in the region are going to react to this blockade. I'm hearing noises from the region that, yes, they want the United States to quote unquote finish the job, whatever that means. But they're also very worried that this blockade is going to be a big deal. They're also very worried that this blockade may push Iran to close another choke point. There isn't just one. There are two. There's the Strait of Hormuz, but there's also Bab El-Mandab near Yemen, which goes into the Red Sea and the Suez Canal. And Iran could retaliate by doing that. I think we're in this interregnum where we still don't know which way it's going. America certainly can't declare victory at the moment, but frankly, neither can Iran. I think they're in a much tighter, difficult position than they're actually letting on. And the economic pressure will be great, even though they have sufficient foreign reserves. It is not going to help their people, the civilian population. And I still think that we might see some kind of protest at some point. If the military campaign calms down, we're also hearing reports about undercover Israeli operations inside Iran itself. So we're really at a very tricky moment and we'll have to see when the next round of negotiations happen. Just one last thing. The Pakistani Prime Minister, Shahbaz Sharif, is going to Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey over the next few days, and that will give us a sense of how the region is feeling about all this. And and and you really thank you so much for your answer. I will say something near the end that I think neatly sums it up. You said they find themselves in a tighter, more difficult position today. And I was going to say who the United States or Iran, because you can say Iranians of both sides. Of course, you're talking about the Iranians, though. But it does it does explain that right now this is still. We are still at a point where it could break either way. Contributing editor of the Financial Times, Kim Gattas, as always, thank you so much. We're so grateful that you came on today to be with us. Thanks for having me. All right, Jonathan Almir, as I said earlier, atop of the show, our allies in the Gulf region are do seem relieved that the United States is not cutting and running that the United said that Donald Trump from from what I'm hearing from the region at the urging of Jared Kushner adopted the Haas doctrine trademark at the end of that and and put the blockade in place. They believe that economically it will it will bring Iran to their knees and Iran will have to negotiate. And their feeling is this is the first time in some time that actually time is on the United States and its allies side. The blockade obviously takes care of any money, any windfall that the Iranians were making. And so now they believe we sit, we wait, and the Iranians will come back to the table with a better deal. Richard Haas, the shadow shadow secretary of state. Yeah, there does seem to be. I agree with you, Joe, the Trump administration, as I spoke in the last 48 hours. I wouldn't go so far as say optimism, but there's a little more just sense of calm, I think, as to where things stand. I think things have settled down a little bit because of the blockade. It's still being put in place. Admiral Cooper, just overnight was when first put out a statement saying it's fully operational now. We are going to see there are some major tests still to come. Will other ships try to run it? What will happen if a ship bound for China is denied? We're heading towards from China is denied. That's a real issue. We know President Trump is deeply concerned and really matters to him. The summit with Xi Jinping of China in a month's time. He doesn't want to, you know, sort of rock the boat before that, pardon the pun, you know, but there's still a lot of uncertainty here. You know, the Pakistani Foreign Minister traveling the region this weekend, perhaps a good sign to get a sense as to where things stand. But it may delay talks. There have been thought that that might even be this weekend in Islamabad. But if he's traveling, that may be trickier to pull off. Mark Caputo, the blockade was also meant to apply pressure on the US's European allies, because who will also suffer from rising prices to see if they'd get involved with efforts to open up the strait, at least to this point, they have not. So question for you, as there is a sense of hope here that these sides at least will meet, we're not saying there's going to be a deal anytime soon, but at least they'll start talking again. Political operatives you talk to working with the White House or inside the West Wing themselves, do they feel like if this blockade does last for weeks and the economic pain is felt here in the United States to in a midterm year, what's their sense of confidence right now? Well, that's a problem with the Trump White House, is that they're always confident, even in spots and times when they should be confident. So yesterday I was talking to people in the White House and they did express that very confidence. They do believe, as Joe pointed out, as you pointed out, that the economic pressures on Iran are getting to a degree where it's forcing them more at the table. Now, understand that they've been saying that for quite some time, that bottom line, Iran wants money, they want us to stop bombing. We want the strait open, the United States says, and we want the nuclear material. So in the general kind of balance of trade or of doing a deal, the United States has money and bombs, they've got oil and uranium and there can be a trade. That's the bottom line perception of the Trump White House. And so they think that cooler heads will prevail and that'll happen. Now, will that occur? I don't know. One of the things that they also pointed out is about a week and a half ago, and when Trump had a press conference following the rescue of the downed airman who was stranded in Iran, he ended his press conference in answer to a question if he would permit Iran to continue to have a toll at the Strait of Hormuz and President Trump specifically said, almost off the top of his head. Well, you know, they might have a toll. Why not us? Why don't we have a toll? And everyone thought he was just sort of winging it. And it turns out that was actually part of the discussions that Trump has been having for quite some time about applying this blockade, which he called a toll at the time, they do think that if you look at the numbers, Iran exports about one point five million barrels, one point seven million million barrels a day of oil or exports it through the Strait of Hormuz. That's being shut off. That basically robs the regime of about one hundred and forty million dollars a day in revenue. They're already essentially broke. And thanks to United States sanctions, the ability for Iran to transact all of that money on the global financial market is greatly restricted. And therefore they think this breaking point is going to come soon. Can't say it will, but that's their sense. And that's why they're communicating that sense of optimism. OK, a Markaputo standby. Still ahead of morning, Joe, the Justice Department is looking to erase convictions for members of the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers, who led the January 6th attack on the Capitol. What we are learning this morning about that, plus the latest on the growing fallout surrounding the now former Congressman Eric Swalwell and the allegations of misconduct from multiple women. And as we go to break a quick look at the Travelers forecast this morning from AccuWeather's Bernie Rayno. Bernie, how's it looking? Me gets a taste of July today, exclusive AccuWeather forecast showing 88 New York City, 94 Washington, DC, not as warm in Boston, 67. From New York City on north, there will be some spotty thunderstorms. Shower thunderstorms today, Chicago, Detroit afternoon thunderstorms in St. Louis, dry in Florida in the Carolinas, travel delays. I-25 from Dallas toward Oklahoma City this afternoon because of some strong thunderstorms and watch some again minor delays in New York City, perhaps Boston later today to help you make the best decisions of being more in the know, download the AccuWeather app today. Sorry. If you dread dealing with your insurance company more than you dread being stuck in an elevator with a total stranger, hey, who's an oversharer? Oh, being burrito for lunch. Then you might have insura noia. And if you have insura noia, then you should have NJM. They go to great lengths to do its best for their policyholders. No jingles or mascots, just great insurance. NJM, insurance underwritten by NJM Insurance Company and its subsidiaries. Listen to your favorite MS Now shows anytime as a podcast. Enjoy new episodes of Morning Joe, Deadline White House and the Rachel Maddow show. Every small D Democratic muscle that we have is flexing. Plus the last word with Laurence O'Donnell, the beat with Ari Melbour, the weeknight and more on the go wherever you get your podcasts for. Ad free listening to all of your favorite shows. Subscribe to MS Now premium on Apple podcasts. You know, you know, Bernie told Mika that today we're going to have a I like Bernie Taste of July. Yes, I need to taste of July, a taste of July. Let me tell you, you know, who wouldn't mind a taste of July instead of tasting the bitter, bitter ashes of April. That would be the Boston Red Sox. The New York Yankees and at the bitter ashes of April and the Toronto Blue Jays, all three teams absolutely dreadful. Unfortunately, I don't know why, but they didn't film the game last night at Fenway, but we do fortunately have highlights of the New York Yankees in full collapse. Let's show that. Oh, wait, what? No, wait, no. Take this, take this, take this. No, wait, no. Take this down. We don't know. No. You know what? This is a problem when your executive producer is a is a fan of Yankees. But oh, wait. Yeah. Can you walk us through this? This is the important game from last night. Yeah, Joe, things are so bad right now for Red Sox baseball that I'm actively rooting for a work stoppage next year, so we don't have to suffer through it again. The Red Sox are six and eleven, which is tied for the worst record in baseball with the luminaries Colorado Rockies and Chicago White Sox. Their ace Garrett crochet got absolutely pummeled on Monday, so bad that you hope he was tipping his pitches and not injured. They looked lifeless yesterday, too. At least the Yankees are also struggling. The Yankees did win a thriller on Monday to end a five game losing streak, but they did not have any momentum out of that. They got smacked by the Angels yesterday. Look at it. Look at the standings there. It's all bunched up. The Yankees can at least say they're above 500. But you know, and it is we always do that. It is it is April 15. It's so early. No doubt. It is very early that they're not playing well. We should know Mika, though. April 15th is an important day, not just tax day, but it's an important day in Major League Baseball because it's Jackie Robinson Day, which is one of the best things that MLB does each and every year. You can see it there. Every player wears number 42 in tribute to the civil rights icon and American hero that is Jackie Robinson and Mika, I'll just note, I was with the my boys were off for a couple of days last week. We were in Kansas City, went to a Royals game, Cardinals game after, but in Kansas City is also the Negro League Baseball Hall of Fame. Oh, that's a wonderful tribute to those who were denied the ability to play in in major league baseball or who only were able to at the end of their careers. It's worth a visit if someone has not gone. Great. That's that is extraordinary. Great to hear. I will say, Lamir, looking at those highlights, I just thought that, you know, the existential question that people ask across the planet, you know, what came first, the chicken or the egg is replaced in Boston by what do you enjoy more? A Red Sox win or a Yankees loss? I will tell you, looking at those highlights, that one's an easy one to answer, isn't it? Yeah, no, it's a Yankees loss. It's definitely a Yankees loss. Yankees loss. Preferably even to a Red Sox win. Yeah, for sure. That's really sort of keeps me going each and every day. OK, you know, I think the reason me, Kawhi is because the Yankees won so many World Series this century. I mean, they've been piling them up. They beat the Phillies in 2009. Then. No, that's it. Hold on. Yeah, wait. You guys. Hold on. Check your number. Wait, I just have nothing from the EP now. It's from the Yankee love and EP now. No, he is not here to defend himself and this is unfair. Alex, Alex, if the Yankees won a World Series, I just I'm looking through all my records. I only have. I have 2009 against it and it's a Phillies. Yeah, one number for you. I guess that's. Twenty seven. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Twenty seven years since you won a World Series. I make it back to you. I'm not going to map, but it's been a long time. Close enough. Willie is on a bender celebrating 10 years of Sunday today. Oh, really? Oh, good for you. Very impressive. Yeah. And also completely. You're saying is what you're saying is that in all the years, the decade that Willie's been on Sunday today, it seems. It seems like an era unto itself. Doesn't it? LaMira broadcasting era unto itself in all of those years. Oh, the Yankees have never won a World Series. Not one. Here's the thing, even if you had been going 15 years. Still not. No, not one. It makes me sad. We hope all these trends to continue for both Willie and the. Here's something I didn't think I'd say twice in a year, and I'm saying it twice in a week. OK, the president is going after the pope again. Oh, no, no, don't do that. Don't do that. No, not a good move. So, hot stove. Trump posted at least last night on social media, quote, will someone please tell Pope Leo that Iran has killed at least 42,000 innocent, completely unarmed protesters in the last two months and that for Iran to have a nuclear bomb is absolutely unacceptable. Iran has acknowledged more than 3,000 deaths while the UN estimates that number to be between five and 20,000. It is not clear. What exactly may have sparked the message from the president? Pope yesterday morning posted in part, quote, God's heart is torn apart by wars, violence, injustice and lies. But our father's heart is not with the wicked, the arrogant or the proud. Vice President J.D. Vance also weighed in on the pope during a turning point USA event at the University of Georgia yesterday. Take a look. Now, we can, of course, have disagreements about whether this or that conflict is just, but I think that it's important in the same way that it's important for the vice president of the United States to be careful when I talk about matters of public policy, I think it's very, very important for the pope to be careful when he talks about matters of theology. I think one of the issues here is that if you're going to opine on matters of theology, you've got to be careful. You've got to make sure it's anchored in the truth. And that's one of the things that I try to do. And it's certainly something I would expect from the clergy, whether they're Catholic or Protestant. What? What? What? What? What are you, a king and medieval Europe warning the pope to talk about the Bible? That's what you said. You know how stupid you sound, right? You know, stupid you sound when you knew to the Catholic Church are lecturing, Mr. Vice President, the padef on theology and telling him he should not quote the red letters. Those are the words, by the way, that Jesus spoke, the red letters in the Gospels of Jesus Christ. And by the way, you don't have to like sort through a lot of it. Just just so you get the sermon in the mount. Blessed are the peacemakers. See, this is his concern. Is someone asked him? It's not geopolitics. His concern is not geopolitics. His concern is not fighting or his concern has to do with peace. Has to do. Blessed are the peacemakers. Blessed are the meek. Blessed are the poor in spirit. Blessed are he is concerned. Jonathan Lumiere with the teachings of Jesus Christ and how utterly bizarre people will look back one day and laugh when they have the safety of distance and laugh that you actually have a vice president sitting on stage warning the Pope. God's representative here on earth for the Catholic Church, warning the Pope what he can and cannot say about theology that he needs to be careful. Well, let me tell you something. I never hear those warnings when he's talking about abortion. I never hear those warnings when he's talking about traditional marriage. I don't hear those warnings when those warnings align with his political views. But there's a war that let us just say started with a killing of over one hundred and fifty young girls at a school that the United States lied about initially and said, we have nothing to do with that. We had that. Oh, no, that wasn't us. That was Iran. Is the Pope going to get involved in that? Is the Pope going to be concerned about that? Does the Pope think that Jesus Christ cares? Whether it's Americans or Iranians or people from other countries who are winning or losing wars, no, the Pope would probably believe like another guy from Illinois, Abraham Lincoln, that his concern is not whether we are on God's side, but whether God is on our side. And so to hear a sitting vice president of the United States, first of all, coming to Catholic last week and then writing a book about being a Catholic and then lecturing the Pope, I've got to say that's like an all timer. And people are going to look back and they're going to have a big chuckle that anybody was ever that arrogant in that position. Yeah, the history books, I often wonder 20, 30, 40 years from now, just exactly what they'll say. This will deserve perhaps its own chapter. Yeah, of the of the there's a short list of people who probably can weigh in on matters of theology. I think the Pope probably on that list. That's just that's just my guess. And you're right, J.B. J.D. Vance, I will say in front of a sparsely attended crowd there at the Turning Point rally, you know, to do that in the same the same speech, by the way, and we'll get to this later, I'm sure, where he said he was proud to deny funding to Ukraine, not just that. You know, wait, hold on a second. Is that a is that a Falcons football game? Can we see those? Can we see those seats again? Yeah, in this smallest crowd in Atlanta since. Yes. Well, since the last time the Falcons played and I'm a huge Falcons fan, but this is a boring point to us, say, like that. That's not good. No, that's not good. And certainly and certainly Vice President Vance's comments there about both Ukraine and the Pope just, you know, beyond the pale for many. So, Mark Caputo, let's bring you in on this. I mean, the the the fifth of Americans identify as Catholic President Trump was criticized even by some within the GOP for his posting that depicted him as Jesus. He claimed he was a doctor. That's not true. But that hasn't stopped him from criticizing the Pope. He did it again last night. Does anyone in the White House think this is a good idea? Well, he did pull it down. He did pull down the original post after a significant number of advisors, both inside and outside of the White House, asked him not to do it. But as his true social account shows, when Donald Trump gets animated about something, he doesn't let it go. And therefore what it was at midnight or after midnight, this sort of behavior or these sorts of thoughts come out of him and wind up on this true social account. And there is a general sense in the White House and in Trump's broader orbit that the best thing to do is to sort of let Trump be Trump and hope he doesn't go too far outside of the guardrails. And if he does, to try to reel him back slowly. And they did that the other day. But I think the rest of this is sort of a sunken cost. My goodness, White House reporter for Axias Marcaputo. Thank you very much. His latest reporting for Axias on the US easing bank sanctions amid Venezuela's economic woes is online now. Coming up, we'll get to Democratic Congressman Ilano Mar's new comments about embracing Marjorie Taylor Greene and other former Trump supporters now voicing criticism of the president. Also ahead, one of our next guests is trying to offer up a solution for people looking to adapt to a world that's increasingly being changed by artificial intelligence. CEO and co-founder of Axias, Jim Vandehias, been on the front lines of this topic, joins us next with a preview of his new upcoming book, Morning Joe is coming right back. If you dread dealing with your insurance more than getting stuck in an elevator with an overshare. Being burrito for lunch. You have insura noia. You should have in J.M. They go to great lengths to do what's best for their policyholders. Insurance underwritten by NJM Insurance Company and its subsidiaries. The degree was hard. Paint it off, shouldn't be. 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Democratic Congresswoman, Ilan Omar of Minnesota says members of her party should embrace Marjorie Taylor Greene, as well as other former MAGA figures who are now breaking with President Trump and his policies. Here's what she said in a recent podcast interview. The thing that has been very fascinating, especially about Marjorie and Candace, is that they are not just coming out like the other ones that you'd mentioned where they're saying this action is wrong. Right. They're saying, I am done with you. I think that we should give them credit for that. The fact that they've had this wake up call to finally seeing this con man, this corrupt, chaotic man for what he is. The fact that they understand that he never really had any principles outside of uplifting his ego. The fact that they have gotten off the sick of fan train and are saying, you know, we trusted the wrong person, we are sorry for that. And we need all of you to wake up to the fact that you've also trusted the wrong person, I think is an important thing for us to put our arms around and say, yes, then now let's figure out how do we save our country from the disaster that this man is creating? All right. Well, you know, that's fascinating on about a thousand different levels. Let's bring in MS now senior Capitol Hill reporter and the host of Way Too Early, Ali Vitale, an opinion writer at the New York Times, Margie. All right, so this is something I've noticed. Some of them noticed there are times when Democrats, when somebody wants to get on their side of the way, but wait, why were you wrong for so long? Why? Why? And then they'll they'll they'll sit there and you'll go through a cross examination, you're like, you want to do what you want to help or not? I have always found Republicans to be kind of like Southern Baptist in that in that I grew up in the first Baptist Church in Pensacola and Dr. Pleitz, he would play if it took 16 verses of just as I am to get somebody to come out and come down front and give their life to Jesus Christ, he would do it. He would keep playing that everybody would hug him and that would all be happy. Sometimes we'd go out and try to find somebody off the streets. Will you please just go down so Dr. Pleitz will let us go to Morrison's because everybody, all the other churches are getting in line before us, but we welcome whoever came down front and wanted to become a member of the church. Democrats in the past have not done that. I find, though, and you tell me if I find now Democrats are far more accepting of the fallen, the weak, the former Republicans, as they would think. And I think again, forget who's saying this about who they're saying this about. Just in general, talk about how that seems to be changing in liberal and progressive circles. You for the Constitution? OK, good. Come on over. We'll take you. You know, it's funny because as a native New Yorker, I grew up in a fairly liberal environment, pretty liberal environment, and there was a sense of, I would say, envy among many politically minded New Yorkers and liberals about what Republicans were able to do, you know, just a certain ruthlessness in terms of how they built their coalitions. And there was a longstanding desire, I think, among average, ordinary, everyday Democratic voters to see their own party embrace tactics that would lead to winning elections and big coalitions. And I think that Democrats having been really put through the ringer the past decade are really willing to do almost anything to flip this script and change the political situation in the country. The landscape is so demoralizing for liberals, for Democrats, that they recognize something has to change. That also is at the heart of some of the anger toward the party's leadership. That's also why you see lots of competitive races in places that you didn't. And, you know, it started with AOC. It didn't finish there. That's why you see people like Zoran Mamdani starting to reshape the party and the progressives have been the most active. But it doesn't necessarily have to be just a progressive project. It's clear that there is a deep hunger among ordinary rank and file voters in the Democratic Party to build a coalition that can defeat Trump and Trumpism. So, Ali Vatan, that's the big picture in efforts Democrats to expand the tent. But let's talk about the particulars here because there's quite the backstory between a congresswoman Omar and former congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green. So talk to us. Remind us why these words that we just heard are, frankly, so unlikely. Well, it's because it does feel like an up-is-down moment when you hear congresswoman Omar saying we should embrace former congresswoman Green. They have had a very tense relationship. But I think that's putting it mildly. There have been censure requests. There have been racist comments toward Omar from Green. There have been allegations of not being loyal to the United States on her part. There has that all of that eventually led to Omar trying to push to strip Green of her committee assignments several years ago. And yet I think that what congresswoman Omar is doing here is indicative of something that Democrats are trying to grapple with, as Joe and Mara are talking about, this idea of what does it mean to have a big tent? It's easy to talk about, but is it something that they can actually put into practice? And then also the idea that Democrats are trying to toy with now on everything from Maga Republicans who are upset over tariffs, over Iran, over the way that this Trump presidency has unfolded in its second term, the idea of piercing the veil. And once you do that, can you invite these people in, if not to the party for a long time for a moment enough to turn the tide? I think that's something that the entire party is grappling with right now, Mika. Yeah, I mean, my advice, even though the Democrats have been through a lot and all those things that you described, Ali, make a space. Make a space. You don't need to go into a long you saw the light and finally you've come around and finally you see how wrong you were. No, she's here. We got a country to work on. End of story. Let's go. That should be the answer for anybody who wants to join a different direction. It seems to me going back and kind of, you know, making sure you make your point about why you were right and they were wrong. Never going to help. Never going to work. Got to make a space. People get to where they get, however they get there, and that is fine. By the way, also happening on Capitol Hill, Democrat Eric Swalwell has formally resigned from his seat from Congress, representing California's 14th district amid allegations of sexual misconduct from multiple women. Swalwell released a statement earlier this week apologizing to family, staff and constituents for past mistakes, but denied any wrongdoing and pledged to fight what he called, quote, serious and false allegations against him. He also suspended his campaign for California governor. Also yesterday, a woman named Lana Drew publicly accused Swalwell of drugging and raping her in a West Hollywood hotel room in 2018 and said she plans to file a police report with the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department and this now does not publish names of people alleging sexual assault unless they agree to go public. My delay in taking action against Eric was driven by fear, not doubt. Fear of his political power, his background as an attorney and his family law enforcement ties. An attorney for Swalwell did not immediately respond to a request for comment. On the Republican side, Tony Gonzalez has also officially resigned from the US House, a mid and ethics committee probe. This comes after he admitted last month to having an affair with an aide who later died by suicide. His resignation went into effect at midnight. Elevator, these stories have been unfolding in different paces. What's your take and what are you hearing on Capitol Hill about this? The stories have been unfolding at different paces and so, frankly, has the accountability because let's look at the case of Congressman Gonzalez, where it was talked about thing, these relationships that he had with his staff. Ultimately, it came to a head right during his primary reelection. He said, OK, I won't run for reelection, but I'm going to finish out this term. And then when the congressman's while while allegations came into play, it was clear there was bipartisan support on both sides of the aisle to have both of them leave. But I was talking with Congresswoman Debbie Dingell on my show this morning about the, I think, pretty gross political reality that the only reason these two men were pushed in bipartisan fashion to resign now in large part was also because the political dynamics on the Hill, the tight margins of Republican to Democrat weren't going to change when it was one Democrat and one Republican leaving. This is something that multiple Congresspeople have said to me, that should not be a factor. And yet I think here it's one that we have to point out. The other piece of this, too, is these women who came out against Eric Swalwell are immensely brave. It is immensely difficult to do. I think it is if we want to look for any kind of a silver lining, the fact that they were immediately believed or more immediately believed than we've seen in the past is a is a good thing. And yet I think it in the immediate term forces a grappling of who knew what when about Swalwell. I think there has been a lot of churn of, well, everybody knew. I don't know anyone that knew the intensity and seriousness of the allegations that came out in the San Francisco Chronicle. And yet one of the people who felt that they had things to answer for was Senator Ruben Gallego, who was a very close friend of Swalwell. He held forth at a press conference of sorts with me and other reporters. Yesterday for almost 40 minutes where he answered questions about the fact that he says he didn't know any of these allegations against Swalwell, but that he had heard rumors of Swalwell being flirty. And I asked him, did you go to your friend with that at any point? And he says, no, that's something that he's thinking about a lot. He was also seeking to clear up some of the misinformation about him. Gallego, that's popped up online in the aftermath of the Swalwell allegations and resignations, saying that he's not a man who's pictured in a video that's been circulated online, that he didn't know about any of these allegations. And yet I think there is a reckoning that could be coming on Capitol Hill of what does this culture look like going forward beyond just these next 48 hours or so. Just really quickly on the Swalwell case, is there videos? Are there real videos that are also part of the evidence here? I think that's something that we've yet to know. We know that there are text messages and we know that there are potentially snapchats. I don't know if the snapchats are videos or just photos, but that's I think what made it. That's what makes it so difficult now going forward on the criminal and legal side of this is the fact that prosecutors and district attorneys in Manhattan and now L.A. County are actually, it seems, going to have some really tangible evidence. And it should be enough for women to just come forward and say these things. But when it comes to actually prosecuting, certainly the more evidence that you can have, the better. For sure. MSNOW, Senior Capitol Hill Reporter and the host of Wade Dourley, Alev Vitaly. Thank you very much for your recording this morning.