#593 - Switchfoot Lead Singer Jon Foreman on Almost Breaking Up Before “Meant to Live” Getting Dropped & Bad Financial Decisions

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human. Did anybody tell you anything about me coming into this room at all? The only text I received was like five minutes before. Did you know what you were coming? No. No. So you're just stringed, you just follow feet and you came here and you didn't know what you're walking into. Yeah, kind of didn't know. I knew you were affiliated with sports and the dancing with the stars. And that was kind of it. Our guest today is John Forman, the lead singer of Switchfoot. I'm a big Switchfoot fan. We were meant to live for so much more. That one in, I dare you to move. I sing them perfectly too. He's a Grammy winning songwriter and the voice behind some of the most well-known songs and alternative rock. As the lead singer of Switchfoot, he has led the band through 10 million albums sold. Crazy. Nearly three decades of touring. And after five years, the band is back with their 14th studio album, Forever Now, that comes out June 26th. I think you're going to love it if you like Switchfoot, which I do. They got a brand new single, Wake Up Mr. Crowe, they're going on tour. And this is just a fun conversation about traveling. And I know nothing about surfing, surfing and music. So here he is, John Forman, the lead singer of Switchfoot. John, good to see you, man. Yeah. I've been a fan for a long time. I was coming in and I left my radio show and I was coming over and it was with my wife and I said, Hey, do you know Switchfoot? And she says, Yeah, she goes, I know a lot of Switchfoot songs. She's like 11 years younger than I am, 11 and a half or so. And I said, what do you know? And she said, Walk to Remember. And I was like, no, I think you're talking about the wrong, wrong band. And she was like, no, you. And I said, I don't know you. And so we listened to you. Yeah. So our Switchfoot are different. My wife's Switchfoot and my Switchfoot are completely different because that's where she was. Because she knows, you know, she's probably seven songs deep on you guys, which is significant for any band. And I was, I didn't even know you guys were in the movie. A walk. I don't think I've ever seen a walk to remember. Yeah. Yeah. I know it is funny because we, we had a ton of songs in that movie. And yet that movie feels like it represents a totally different cross section than say the songs we played, you know, two nights ago. And Jersey, like the songs that we would, I don't, we haven't played you live in a long time. But yeah, I still love those songs as well. It just feels like a different band almost. Is there a type of person that knows you for a different thing? All, I mean, that's the funny thing. So I, I'm in this other band, Fiction Family, that nobody knows about with Sean Walkins from Nickel Creek and a couple of other guys. And this guy's, I'm singing in, in Switchfoot, or I'm singing a solo show. And this guy comes up to me and he's like, are you in a band? And I'm like, I think I know where it's going. You know, he's like Fiction Family, right? You know, and I'm like, yep, that's me. You got me. It's funny how even with the people that will come up to me, they'll know me. I can tell by their age and their age. Their age and their sex, what they know me from. Right. Like if it's a dude and he's in his 40s to 50s, he probably listens to like my NFL show. If it's an old lady, she saw me dancing with the stars. If it's like a family American, like I can tell when they're coming up, what they know me from. And I just thought it was wild because I've been, again, I've been a fan of you guys forever. I did not know you were in the movie and my wife knows you just from that. And she's like, I'm a massive fan because of that. That's fun. My daughter probably, yeah, she would know you from dancing with the stars. So she would apologize to her for that. Yeah. For me. Yeah. Most people that didn't know me before dancing with the stars didn't really enjoy me on dancing with the stars. That takes some cahones though, man. My wife's always like, you could do that. And I'm like, no, I wouldn't. I don't think I ever would. They ever asked you to do it? I, if they have, I blocked it out. I don't think I, like I said, that takes something special. I don't know that I have it. So hats off. I have a friend that was a festival and I think it was in like West Texas 2002 or 2003 and you guys were playing a five o'clock, a five o'clock slot. And I think it was after meant to live at MTV. And he told me that there were like 20,000 people there for a five o'clock slot because that song had popped so hard because it had landed on MTV. Does that sound familiar to you? Yeah. That was a wild time. The whole experience of that was surreal on a lot of levels because you go from playing for 20 people that could kind of care less, you know, to playing for a lot more than that. And almost overnight, it felt like there was a big shift. Yeah, that was a strange period because that was our fourth record. And we made it with the attitude that, you know, let's make one last record and then we'll break up and get real jobs. No way. So yeah, that was like, that was the mindset. Let's just give it all we have. And and we were, you know, independent at the time and we recorded this record up in LA in a week and, you know, had, of course, you have high hopes. You want to get it out there. But right before the record came out, we got dropped by Sony Records. And so, I mean, everything, if you're, if you're thinking through your life at the age of, you know, 23 or so, you're not thinking, oh, this is where everything turns around. You're thinking, okay, well, that's cool. That was a good run. Let's go back to college. And yeah, so that was, that was my experience of that season. The first three records that you put out, were you guys just grinding in a van? Yeah, we would. So there was this thing in the 90s and early 2000s called cred. And if you like, you wanted to get cred and the only way you could get cred was by doing it the hard way. So it was not seen as some sort of flaw. It was seen as, whoa, those guys, they tour in a minivan and they eat ramen. And that's so cool. They do that for their art. I don't know that nowadays it's cool, but that's the way we saw it. So we would pack all our stuff in the minivan and, you know, we drive across the country. A lot of times it was a rental rented minivan. And we're, you know, we're a three piece at the time. And we turn the car in with thousands of miles at the end of the tour. The guy like checking us in is like, this has to be a mistake. You guys put 2000 miles on this thing. So yeah, that was, that was the early days. When you started, were you just playing like in your town? Like was, or was the idea, let's just start booking shows immediately. So the dream, when I was in high school, the dream was to break even on an album that we paid to record. So I've spent, you know, took all my busboy money from working at the restaurant and spent it all on the studio. And I did the math. We needed to sell like 230 copies of this album. And then we break even. And so we had our sites real high. We wanted to sell 230 copies. And when we did it, that was success, you know, we did, you know, I think my brother and I were pretty resourceful. We love the hustle. And it felt like we were kind of cheating the system that we were actually breaking even with rock and roll. And we had no thought of thinking like, oh, this could actually, you could get a mortgage on a house with this kind of thing. You know, it was like, no, this is, you have to graduate college and get a real job. So you would record your albums at a small studio in California. We did the first few there. The first Switchfoot record we were actually recorded here in Nashville. So what were you before Switchfoot? We were a band called Etcetera. Were you ETC or did you spell it all the way out? Yeah, yeah, yeah. How many of those guys were the guys that ended up being a Switchfoot? My brother, myself, and a drummer, who he left to go back to the East Coast and our drummer now Chad said, we said, hey, you should join our band. And he was like, well, let's start a new one. And so that's why the name changed. Well, we, yeah, we switched the switch names. We had another name in between called Chin Up. And we thought that that was too hard to say. And somehow Switchfoot is easier, which it's not. I had a lot of speech therapy as a kid and I don't know why we picked a name, Switchfoot. It's, it's, yeah, but it's, that's, that's what we thought was a better idea. I don't know how to surf. I'm from Arkansas. Water makes me uncomfortable still. So I'm not a water guy. Okay. Salt or, or fresh either, both. Land. Land. Okay. Either way. Yeah. Generally speaking, land. Do you like being near the water? Nah. Not even like sitting at a lake or, okay. Fair enough. If, if I am, I need to be doing something. Well, I need to be doing some kind of activity. I just never grew up on water and my wife loves the beach. Most people love the beach. Yeah. I just, I, at this point in my life, I just like some good wifi. Okay. You know, what about, okay, what about the mountain or like a field or the streams or any of that? Do anything? I've been to some cool places. Yeah. If you say what, let's go back and forth. Coolest places we've ever been. Things we've seen. Okay. This will be a fun exercise. I remember the first time I saw the Grand Canyon. I was blown away. I could not believe how grand it actually was. One of those things that lives up to the name, right? Yes. Very few do. And I remember seeing the Grand Canyon and I had a show on that GEO where I had to go and clean the, the skybridge underneath that clear thing people stand on. And so I'm on a single, it sucked because I hate heights. That's crazy. It sucked. It was the worst thing ever. But you're, you were, you clean that thing? Untram underneath on a rope. Oh my gosh. Okay. Now I've got some watching material for tonight. I hated it. It was the first episode. And you knew I didn't die because there were like eight episodes. If they put it on, well, because you're here with me now, but golly. The Grand Canyon was awesome. And I use that word like it was meant. It was awesome. I could not believe it. I hadn't, I'd never seen anything physically like that before. So that's going to be in my draft. We'll do three each. Grand Canyon, number one pick. You're up. Okay. This one holds a special place in my heart. There's this place called Uluatu in Bali. And it's a surfing spot that is legendary and been there many times. And it is stunning. I mean, the secret's out on it. It's no longer like this, this hidden thing. I think Richard Branson and a bunch of people have houses, Oprah or whoever on the top of it, but it's like this, this 400 foot cliff that just goes straight down into the water. And then the entire, that entire coast is exposed to huge Indian Ocean, monsoon season swells. And so some of the best waves, there's this cave that you walk through to get to the ocean. So you go down these stairs that are connected only at the bottom and the top. And there's monkeys that live in the caves. And then you paddle out through the cave into the ocean. And it's just this living reef and these world class waves firing off in front of you. So that's, that's, that's a special place in my heart. Did you know, I'm assuming the lore of it before you got there. And then when you got there, did it live up to it? Even though you heard about it? Yeah. So being a surfer, it's, it's, it's funny because surfing, it's a very egalitarian sport where if you get to the spot and you want to paddle out, go for it. It's not like the Super Bowl where you have to get drafted and make your way there. You know, like there's no one checking credentials or anything like that. But every, you know, I'd say probably 90% of the surfers around the world would know what we're talking about. And so, yeah, it absolutely lived up to the hype. My number two is going to be because I had seen it on television my whole life. And growing up, I lived in trailer park. So I never really thought I'd get to leave the state much less the country. And it really wasn't that big. But just seeing the Eiffel Tower in person was the coolest thing to me because it was like I was getting to experience things farther away than I ever thought I would get to experience things. Yeah. So it meant that to me. Yeah. So to drive, because you, I'm assuming you've been to Paris. Yeah. And I love the seven or twice now. We love it. Yeah. And we have my wife and I have great memories of being there. And I remember the first time we were driving in, we weren't driving. Somebody was driving us and seeing like the top of it. And you get, and I just had this like overwhelming feeling of like I'm not, I don't have to be that kid anymore because I'm getting to see things I never thought I would get to see. Yeah. And something I only thought that felt fictional. Yeah. It almost, those are those moments where it feels like it's almost like a mythical interplay where you're like, oh yeah, I've read Harry Potter and then, oh no, that's, oh, it's real. You know, like, yeah, that, that to me, because the meaning to it, I'm going to put that as my number two, seeing the Eiffel Tower. And then you get to basically go up to it. We didn't go up in it. But, you know, we have a big picture in our house of us in front of it that means more to me than just that old structure behind us. Yeah. To me, it's something I never thought I would get to see in person, getting to see in a person. Yeah, I love that. Okay. So my number two, I think the thing, so this is going to be more of just a feeling that I have in, in an entire country. So in, when I'm in India, we've been to India several times and there's just this magnificent claustrophobic explosion of color and smell and people and, and taste and everything is there. It feels otherworldly where you, you think to yourself, okay, I've arrived on some sort of Star Wars planet and this is, this is the way this planet behaves because there's no way this is, is this really earth? You know, so yeah, safe to you there. I don't, well, I've found that in most cultures, the, it's the brackish water. If we're going to go with a salt, salt water, freshwater analogy that is the, feels like the places that are dangerous. So like, for example, the border between Mexico and the US, I never feels safe near the border, but the further south you get into Mexico, the more safe you feel. I feel the same thing in India. Like the further you get away from like the tourist spots, the more you just feel like, oh, I can relax. But I, I, I never felt like I was letting my guard down because it's such an abrasive affront on every one of your senses all at once. It does on my list, but when I went to Haiti, I kind of felt that way. Yeah. Like the further I got out of town, yes, my heart could rest a little. My resting heart rate actually fell a bit because in town there's people, there's people are holding guns. There's, but once you get out, I feel like everybody was a little more chill. Like everybody was a condensed. Yes. So I don't totally relate. India's always been something that I guess I have friends that have been and one of my friends went landed in the airport. It was like, I'm not doing it. Came home. I get that. It's a very visceral, affronting feeling where you're, you're completely engulfed in humans and not in an always pleasant way. You know, I think, but I do think maybe being around crowds all the time, it festivals or whatever, maybe that helps a little bit with that kind of thing. Okay. You got to go. What's your third one? Mine are going to be because of the way they make me feel. Okay. I went to Japan and this was when I felt like as different as everybody is. We're all the same. Yeah. I went all the way around the freaking world and I would see families doing family things. Yeah. People solo doing solo people things. Dads, religious, everything that felt like it was supposed to be so different from what we're taught, but it was just the same. Yeah. Like there are universal languages. Yeah. That we all share regardless of our cultures that we grew up in and that we're so bound to each other by them. Even if we constantly fight it or we're taught, we're not the same. Going to Japan made me feel like, man, maybe I shouldn't listen to the news so much. Like that's the feeling I got there because I felt like I was exactly like them. Wow. When my whole life I had been told that we're from different cultures. So we're so different. They use chopsticks. We'll use forks. We're crazy. Oh, yeah. But in reality, what I learned by like being there was God, I mean, we're all the same. Just chasing the same thing, same dreams, same core values. And that is how I felt about just being in Japan in general, because it felt so foreign because it looked so different and it was so far. Oh, yeah. And there were like two versions of it. There was like the Japan that was like super chill and there's like Space Age Japan. And I was like, just like the Jetsons. Oh, yeah. Crazy. And there's Japanese music playing over and had no idea. And I was learning, trying to say the words like, Kenichiwa. And I was, you know, and I was saying the things I was trying as hard as I could. And they were so appreciative that I was trying. And I remember just having like a sense of, man, Earth's kind of cool. Like I shouldn't fall into the traps that divide. That's good. I love that. And I do think that travel is probably the best education, you know. And, yeah, I have a friend from Taiwan who grew up here, moved there. Super smart guy, like double major math in computer science in three years. And he's out to Taiwan. And then, and he comes and visits and he comes back to America. And he's like, man, I thought, like, he's like, same thing. He's like, I was reading the news and I was like, I thought America was blown up or something. I, you know, but then I realized I talked to people back home in America. And I'm like, oh no, everything's fine. People are people and they still love each other and they still love their family and they still are trying their best. And, yeah, I do think maybe the thing that sells the news often is the scandalous things in the margins. And for the most part, you know, people are generally aiming for the right thing, you know. So that's a good point. Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor. And we're back on The BobbyCast. All right, hit me with your three. Okay, number three. I got so distracted by the story I wasn't even thinking about it. Okay, so if we're going to go with number three, I had the privilege of going to Italy with my wife. And it was a trip that had no agenda. And it was a very, you know, pre-kids. And I will never forget the tastes. You know, you talk about the feeling that you had. I'll never forget the tastes. It was, we just kind of wandered. We had no plan. We just get an Airbnb. This is, you know, back in the day. And every day was just kind of a new adventure. And it felt like I was, because of the way we did it, so on kind of a micro level, it was no, we're going to do this and this and this. I felt like we kind of sunk down to the level of what it might have been like on foot. You know, we didn't have a car. We're just walking from place to place. That'd probably be my third most memorable place on the planet. We went to Italy and I started just going places. Because like I said, I never went anywhere. And then I had made money and I was single forever. So I was like, I'm a do-crap. And I started chasing things from television. Yeah. Like I only went to Japan because Jesse and the Rippers from Full House played there. Of course. Right? Why wouldn't you? I only went to Hawaii because of the ready bunch. There it is. I only went to London because of friends. Like, and I went a lot of these places by myself even. Wow, that's great. Because I was just like, I want to see stuff. Yeah. And when I met my wife, that's when I actually started traveling with somebody. And we've been married almost five years now. And we went to Italy. We've gone twice now. But I would hear people talk about that and go, you can eat whatever you want. You don't even gain weight. And I was like, urban legend. Not real, fake. Then we went. You can eat whatever you want. Because there are no preservatives. They're not like us. We're packaging up ding-dong for seven months before we eat them. They make their stuff to be eaten right then. And you can eat all the stuff here that you can't eat. Because it'll sit in you forever. And I compared it to Chinese food here. You go, you get stuffed on Chinese food. Two hours later, you're like, where did it go? That's how the bread's were in Italy. Oh, yeah. And I was like, everybody was right. Yes. Italy was awesome. Yeah, Italy's amazing. We did a cooking class in someone's house. Oh, that sounds amazing. Like, we totally embraced it. My wife, I'm not an embracer. My wife is an embracer. OK. And she said, we should really experience this. Let's not go to, because we did Florence, which is freaking crazy, because I wanted to see art. Like, I liked the stuff. Yes. It's like the water. Like, I don't like the water for the sake of the water. I don't want to go to the town for the sake of the town. Like, I want to do stuff. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So you're like, my mom has the list. Do you have the list? Very much. Things I want to do. We got to check them off. So you know, that's super funny. Since I used to be the kid who was like, mom, quit it. Like, we're here. We're in Hawaii. Like, why do we have to have a list? You know, let's just unfold and see what happens. And now my wife is so far that way that I freaking have a list, because she's, you know, I'm like, oh my gosh. Somebody's got to be the list person. Somebody's got to be the list person. I have to be the list person. Yeah. Yeah. We went out to a lady's house, and she found on some Angie's list Italy. I don't know what they have over there, but some version of that. Yeah. And Gina. Yeah. Angie's list list. And so we traveled like 20 miles out of Florence and went to her house and stayed the whole day. And she just like a lady just taught us how to cook. And we made pasta. Oh, that sounds so good. It was really one of those experiences that I wasn't looking forward to, but I'm so grateful that I listened to my wife and we did it. Yeah. Because it's still like so special in my heart. Wow. And so do you have like those memories, like the, all the recipes on lock? Can you? She does. Okay. She's a great cook. She knows how, there's once a year we do homemade, all the homemade noodles and stuff because we've learned how to do that. And it's a process. Right. Like it takes hours to do. So I'll commit to her once a year to do it. Yeah. But I think she learned two things from her specifically that she does really well. And they're mostly improvements on pasta. Yeah. Yeah. I'm also not a pasta guy. Well, yeah. I mean, but the sauces. Oh, you know, it's right. We're like, we're like, I've never tasted that before. How did you do that? It's all so fresh, I guess, right? It's all, it's all so fresh. Just chopped the pine nuts right then. And yeah, all of it. Yeah. So Italy to me, I have great memories there of that. And again, just chasing television shows because that's why I went places. So, you know, it's funny for me. I had that same experience of travel. You know, just if I could, if they book us a show there, it'd say, yeah, let's go. I mean, even if it was a break event or we'd lose a little money, our very first tour was in the UK. We got booked on a couple of festivals. And we found out that the touring and surfing, they go hand in hand music and surfing because they both require travel. And so while we're in London, we had like four days left before we needed to fly home. And we found out there were waves in France that as well was hitting. So we checked out of our hotel and went to Central Park with all our gear and tried to sleep during the day, like sleep on our gear so no one could steal it. But sleeping in, you know, we're at Hyde Park or wherever in London. This band shows up to play like marching band. We're like trying to sleep like it was comical. And so now we haven't slept at all. We're wired. And we're trying to now make it through London at night and not get mugged with all our instruments at like subways and getting kicked out of places. But by checking out of our hotel for those four days, we saved enough money to get the channel over and surf in France. And so those are like those are core memories for us as a band to think through. Yeah, and I wouldn't trade it. Now my travel is still a beautiful thing, but having kids, I feel like a new understanding of what home means because when you're 22 and you've dropped out of college and you're living at home, travel means success. But then as you grow older, being home means success because I love my kids. I love my wife. I want to be there. So yeah, it totally changes the perspective. And then when I get a chance, I can actually bring my kids with me. I brought my son to Alaska. We toured up there this summer. And yeah, I want to pass on that education to them. The first time that I had been to Hawaii, I was in my 30s. I went by myself. It was America. I don't think I had a passport at that time. So I stayed in the States, but I went where the time zone was off because I had to finish a book. Okay. And if my time zone was way different than everybody else's, then I wouldn't be in the the wheel. The emails weren't coming. There were like four or five hours every day where I did not have to worry about that. And so I went to Hawaii by myself and I was staying at a hotel. I was staying at a hotel. I was just riding. And again, Hawaii is a weird place for me to go, but the Brady Bunch went and they had that bad luck mask that they threw back in the ocean. So I just wanted to go and see it. Yeah. This is a Wahoo. Well, first it was Honolulu. So I bounced around a little bit even by myself. So first, because I didn't know what I was doing, I just went to Honolulu and stayed at a hotel. And I thought, I need to go do something even by myself. And so I went to like the Dole. Yeah. But they make the pineapple. I guess they don't make pineapples, but you know, the Dole plant. Yeah, right in the center. And so then I went and hiked. I did a mountain by myself and I remember asking somebody to take a picture and they were like looking for the other people to be in the picture. And I was like, nope, just me. That's great. You know, so you hold your arms out wide and you take a picture. And so I thought I should do something on the water. And I went down and I don't know how to surf. And I wasn't going to take surf lessons, but I thought I'll go and get one of those like paddle boards, stand up, stand up paddle boards. And I'll go and at least get on the water and have an experience doing that. And so I go and I'm on and I'm, you know, I strapped that thing to me. So the board doesn't fly off. But everybody's looking at me really weird. And I'm like, either I'm killing this and they're amazed at a rookie or I'm doing something really wrong. And so like I'm up, I'm standing up on the board. I'm exactly what I'm supposed to be. But people are like looking at me and then a little of me is like, oh, they may recognize me. I got a couple of things going. Maybe. Yeah. And it wasn't that. And so finally a guy that I think he was giving lessons to other people. He comes up and he's very nice. And he said, Hey man, that strap is not for your wrist. It's for your ankle. So it's the strap that you see. Yes. Yes. The leash. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I had on my wrist. I mean, you know, different strokes. That's why everybody was staring at me. That's really good. I was really like, I mean, it doesn't go around your neck or, you know, I could have gone back. Yeah. Maybe like a sweat band or my head's too big for the sweat band, but I could have gone back, but I did wrist. Was surfing what brought you guys as the band together initially? So kind of, I definitely think it's what's kept us together as a band. It's for people that don't participate. It sounds funny, but yeah, we were on surf teams and high school and college and I was joking UCSD, the college we went to is well known for, you know, math and sciences. They don't have a football team, but I will say our surf team is much better than UCLA. And yeah, that was kind of, we'd go surfing, we'd make music, but you know, surfing and music are both kind of, you do it because you love it. You're not thinking, I'm going to crush it financially with this occupation. You know, surfing is, it's a blast. It's a passion. It's a lifestyle. It's a way to connect with nature, yourself, other people, but you're never thinking, oh, this is going to make me some money. And I think the same thing that holds true with songs where I think songs are the scaffolding for the soul. They get me to places I could never get to otherwise. And yet, the same approach was, you know, until our fourth record, we had that approach where it's like, oh, of course we're never going to make money with this, but we're going to pour our life into it because it's beautiful. So why did you guys get dropped at that fourth record? We played a show in New York for the head of Sony and he walked out second song after saying a couple of expletives and did not like us and thought we were not a good band. So he saw you play and dropped you based off a song? Actually, I think he walked out during a song called Dairy to Move, which ended up being no way one of our bigger songs. Yeah. So we finished the show and we're thinking, man, that went pretty good, right? And our manager's like, no, it did not. You, I don't think it went well at all. And I think you guys got dropped. And it ended up being the best thing that could have happened to us. Why? Because we were then relegated to this, basically the farm team of Sony, which was R.E.D. And on Sony, tons of money, tons of power, tons of clout, but we would have been one of a bunch of other bands. And we were in a very small ship in a big pond. And on R.E.D., they were hungry and excited and they were like, let's go. We love this. We love you guys and you're our priority. And so we would just basically, we'd travel around the country playing for folks. We'd play our show in the evening and play for the radio station in the morning. And halfway through the tour, that's kind of when the aggregate sum of people started to change. Yeah, so that was a big turning point for us. And I don't think it would have happened on Sony. So that's what I mean. It was a blessing in disguise. What was the success story of Meant to Live? Meant to Live was a song that is, it still feels true for me. And when I say was, I feel like I should say is. It still is a song that feels like it resonates. There's several lines in it that feel more poignant now and almost prescient than it, than when I wrote them. We want more than the wars of our fathers. That line every night when I sing that, especially now, and being a dad, that feels like a very poignant line. And I feel like it resonated with people. Music is, to state the obvious, you're dealing with resonance. And you know that note that you hit in the shower where it just keeps going on forever. And you think, wow, my voice is amazing. You found what's called the resonant frequency of the room, where all matter will have a resonant frequency at which it will vibrate. Say a truck drive by and your window starts rattling this because the truck hit the frequency at which your window rattles. So I think that music not only on a physical level of resonance, but also with the lyrical level, some things resonate with me. Like I hear a poem or I read a book or a phrase and it feels like it sticks with me and begins to move me in a way. I think meant to live did that for a lot of people where it resonated with them. And it felt like that fist in the air kind of moment where they want to sing along with it. Was there a television performance or was it MTV or was it a radio? Like what was kind of the lever that actually popped that song? Well, I mean, we did all of them. You mentioned, we're talking about the BC boys on Letterman. Yeah, we did Letterman. We did Leno. We did MTV. There was one moment where the last minute we were added to a radio show at Madison Square Garden in New York City. And it was a last minute thing. And they said, hey, we want you to go out and play a couple songs, just acoustic, just you. And now that I'm thinking of it, it was very odd. William Hung. Oh, I remember William Hung. Was the ashy immediately before us. Yeah, she bangs American Idol. But you've got like Destiny's Child and Maroon 5 and all these people, everyone's backstage. Oh, and also Donald Trump was there as the apprentice. So like it's a cast of characters. Was it Z100? Yes. Yeah, yeah, Z100. And so I remember walking on stage with just an acoustic guitar and playing mental live on the acoustic guitar and having the entire Madison Square Garden singing along with me. And that was a moment where I thought, wow, they all know this song. That's incredible. And those are moments that I feel like that is why I do what I do. Whether it's an arena or 14 people backstage, or it could be, I do after shows where the show will finish and I'll go to the parking lot in the back and send out a tweet or Instagram and say, hey, let's keep the night going. Where multiple people are all singing the same thing. When I was in high school going to the punk show or church or wherever, it felt like, oh, I resonate with this. I feel like I belong somewhere. And in that moment at MSG, it felt like, oh, I'm a part of something bigger. Resonating is interesting. I just got off a call where I was being interviewed about an artist that's killing it right now. And they're like, why do you think she's making it? And I said, well, first, her songs are good. And also the people she wrote with and sonically. And I said, you can have all 11 things though, and it's still not work. Like if it were, if you could predict it, if you could predict what worked, I think this job would be a lot easier. I said, because I know I could list all 11 of these things that I just said that's working for her that other people have done. And for some reason it did not work. I said, but you know what? It's so funny you said that you said, but you know why it's working is because it resonates with people. Like people either hear stories of themselves or somebody they care about or root for. Like there's something that they're connecting to this artist's music and this artist's song. And that was literally the conversation that I had with the Wall Street Journal. It was talking about music. And it's such an odd thing because again, you can do everything right and it's still not connect. And then you could do everything wrong and it connect like freaking crazy. Yes. Because it would be like a video going viral that someone is just like crappily shooting and holding up versus. She banks. William Hung. I think that's a great example where you're like, okay, so why is that the song that everyone wants to hear right now? And if you could predict it or if you were good enough to just do it every time, you would. But really you can't. Right. There's no way to produce the perfect from the beginning. There's no way to produce the perfect song. Well, because I think imperfections need to be there. I think that's where the human component comes in. Like I resonate with something that feels human to me and to be human, to air is to human. To be human. So we think like, okay, so we're looking, I'm looking at Miles Davis kind of blue. It's a perfect album. Hold that record up. This is a segment we do and we donate all these records eventually. So we have people bringing records that mean a lot to them and you've brought in Miles Davis kind of blue. Why did you bring that in? Okay. So this is my favorite album. I think it's a perfect album. But it is a deeply human record because you have these incredible artists that are masters of their craft playing the song for the first or the second time. Most of the songs on here are first or second takes. And I think that's where humanity comes in. I have all these conversations with my friends that play jazz. They talk about the bell curve where you have, at the beginning, you're so excited about the song. Your interest, your human connection with the song is at a peak. But your aptitude to play the song is pretty low. These guys, not so much. But maybe the second take, third take, fourth take, your aptitude gets better and better. You know it better and better. So you now, tenth take in, it's wrote. It's all mapped out. But your interest and your human connection with the song has gone down because you've done it 10 times. So you're kind of bored. So usually like the fifth or sixth take, you're like, okay. Or fourth, it depends on what's happening. But I think that's when I hear a perfect album, I want to feel like there's humans that are making the music. Because that's what resonates with me is the humanity. And that's what I feel like in this. What's perfect about it is that it's the first or second take. You feel the song unfolding and nothing is forced about it. How did you start listening to Miles Davis? I played trumpet in junior high. And so yeah, I think this is a unique album though in the jazz world. I mean, I think it's the best-selling jazz album of all time. So it definitely not only resonated with me, but with a lot of people. But I think it is, you talk about a feeling that you had in Japan. Music is almost that thing for a lot of us where it's like a smell where it takes you somewhere. And this album takes me to a place that I want to go again and again. It's a serene place that feels tranquil, feels human. But there's space for me there to, you know, for my own thoughts to unfold. A lot of jazz, incredible though it may be, is so filled with notes and things that are flying by you that you really have to pay attention. And this is an album where it just kind of lets you drift. Again, we're back to the ocean, but maybe you're just kind of letting it take you where it goes. And you feel comfortable there. The Bobby Cast will be right back. Music This is the Bobby Cast. Flea also played the trumpet from Chili Peppers. And he just did a jazz record. And he talked about how nervous he was and how after all those 40 years, like Chili Peppers, the highest level, that he still felt like he did not have it in him to pull off a successful jazz record that would be respected. Yeah. And I mean, imposter syndrome is at every level, right? Where you're always like, I don't know. Maybe, I'm not sure. But when you delve into jazz, that's when there's layers of mastery. And everyone can see right through it if you're faking it. Whatever happened with the guy that said, we're dropping Switchfoot? So he... Oh, man. Because it turned out bad decision. Yeah. So after we sold 2 million copies, he brought us back over and took a picture and talked about artist development and all of these things. Of course he did. But it was this thing where I don't... Like, even now, I don't have any ill will or I think he was trying his best. I think that's a tough position to be in that I don't want his job. And you can't change one thing without changing everything. So I love the fact that I get to make music. Now, I mean, we've done so many dumb things as a band. We've signed record deals. The very first record deal we signed as a band gave us $7,000 every record for our entire publishing. So $7,000 per album. And that's... That was for the first six albums. So, I mean, these are things that you look back on and you're like, oh, that's a horrible financial decision. We had a lawyer look at it, found out he's actually... Was also doing the legal stuff. But all these things, you can either be bitter and like, oh, disgruntled, think about all the numbers. Or you can say, no, I mean, I love where I live. I love that I get to talk about music with you. We got to talk about Miles Davis. And none of this would happen if we hadn't signed that deal. I mean, sure, maybe a different deal. Maybe I'd meet a different woman, maybe. But you can't change one thing without changing everything. So I'm trying to be content and fully present to the moment I'm in. Did you feel the pressure with Dairy to Move after meant to live? Was that, oh my God, we got one and it was a crazy journey to get one. Yeah. Well, the funny thing, okay, so here's a funny story about meant to live and Dairy to Move. Dairy to Move appeared on the album before that in Switchfoot's catalog, which is an album called Learning to Breathe. And that was a song that we thought, wow, this is such a beautiful song. We're going to play it first on the album. And but it was the same kind of thing where the record label we were on at the time was like, yeah, pretty good song. Then nothing happened with it. But it took, we were like, we still think it's a great song. We're going to put it on another album. And so we put it on this one, Beautiful Letdown. And that's when people thought it was a great song. But it is that thing where perspective changes everything. So people will say, well, it's not a hit meant to live or Dairy to Move. In the back of my mind, I'm like, well, those are songs that people thought weren't hits. And what is a hit? I think, ultimately, again, we're talking about resonance. So it's like, well, what moves you? If it moves you, then go. Like we just came out with a single Wake Up Mr. Crow. And it's all the things that maybe you would say, hey, this is not where music's at. But our goal was to resonate with that 14-year-old kid who picked up a guitar and started playing Zeppelin. We were like, let's make that album. And so then it becomes kind of irrelevant what anyone says, because you feel it from here. The album comes out in June. That's correct. Six, 26, 26. Is there a meaning behind that? Or do you just remember the date? We came up with all sorts of meanings once we found out what the date was. You're a verse engineer. Oh, yeah. There are lots of meanings. Yeah. 13, lucky 13, double it. And two, yeah, it's a palindrome, all of it. Yeah. It's been five years, huh? It's been a long time. Yeah, we came out with the record. The last record we made was recorded like the height of COVID. There's so much tension. And I mean, the world has, the tension is still there. But I felt like this album is, feels like as a band, you try on all sorts of different jackets. You're like, oh, this feels good. I like this. And as a songwriter, you're always looking for new places, you know, like a traveler, right? This album feels like it's a return to home where you think, oh, this jacket feels nice. I'm comfortable in this. And again, that having the compass of, well, what's going to make that 14-year-old kid want to pick up the guitar? Let's make that record. Not the same at all. But you're a new single. I really like Stars from you guys. Yes. They, to me, they feel a bit similar. Yeah. Like, and again, not the same, not saying they're the same. Yeah. This is, you know, I'm a moron. But like that song kind of made me feel like Stars made me feel. Yes. It does have a similar, they're both drop D and they both have a similar movement in the melody that's presented on the guitar. I totally agree. Oh, good. Good, good. Yes. And we even thought about like, I want to make an intro that has one as the intro, and then you go into the other. I think that'd be really fun. Ah, good. I love when I'm not in any of the following. So, no, you're not. And actually, that particular song is a motif that riff that appears in different forms. There's an upside down version of it and a different song. And then it comes back again. It's kind of feels like, like an intentional thread to weave through the whole record. Are you a coffee guy? I love coffee. I'm trying to get there. Okay. I hate coffee. Do you like tea? Sweet tea. Okay. Only. You, I mean, I love it. You're hitting all the boxes. Like, you know. What boxes? I feel like we're on the opposite side on a lot of things. Like, let's go to the beach. No. Well, let's have some coffee. No, let's have some sweet tea. I mean, I love that. That's so good. I have been trying to will myself into liking coffee. Okay. Because I do understand why people like coffee. Yeah. I just, it just does not taste good to me. Do you like, okay, let's go back. Do you like coffee shops? Yeah. I like, I like a vibe of a coffee shop. Yeah. Especially, I like the music in a coffee shop. Yeah. I like Coffee House, Radio. Yeah. I like all of that. I like everything about. Like the pastries. All. Okay. I like everything about coffee, except the coffee. Okay. That's fair. It's kind of like me with smoking. Like, I love the idea of stepping outside and breathing for like five minutes, a couple of times a day, and just hanging with somebody and talking. I just don't like the idea of, you know, smoking. But I love the idea, you know, so I feel like this is the same, same concept. I'm trying to drink coffee to make myself like it. I just can't do it. Well, is there, if you tried like, like kombucha or maybe mate? Okay. And I love kombucha. Could you disguise it? Like put some kombucha in like a coffee cup and just. But then I feel like I'm not doing it. Like if I'm doing all that work, because I'm trying to do it so I socially can just, while everybody's drinking coffee. Yeah. Because I've never, I've never had alcohol ever. I've never tasted alcohol. So since I can't do that, I never did bars and stuff. Okay. Well, I'm older now. I do coffee. Yeah. But no, I just, I can't get there. Coffeeless coffee. But again, it's like non-alcoholic beer. Yeah. I don't want to drink non-coffeeed coffee. Yeah. The point of coffee is like for that, I just didn't know if you could, if you were a coffee guy or not. I love coffee. I really do. And I think coffee, like when I show up in a new place, I look on Yelp for coffee shops. And there's usually like two or three in a section of town, and that's where I go. And it feels like coffee, community, conversation. I like all that. Culture. It all feels right there. Love all that, except the coffee part. Except for the coffee. But I mean, you can, you can like kind of secondhand coffee. And I do. And that's mostly what I do. Yeah. And I can even do like an espresso shot really in something. Like it needs to be dumped over a cake. I'd have to eat a whole cake with one shot done. That's my daughter. She's like, you know, she'll have like the whatever, the latte with four donuts and everything. That's exactly how I have to do it. Yeah. You have kids. How many kids? I have two. I have a 14-year-old daughter and a seven-year-old son. Your story of coffee reminds me of Vegemite. I was convinced I was going to move to Australia and go to college there. And I was like, well, their version of a PBJ, and I'm going to be on a budget because I'm in Australia, is Vegemite sandwich. Could never figure out how to like Vegemite. It's pretty disgusting. And so that's why I never went to Australia. You know. You never went? I never studied there. Oh, got it. I was like, if it kept you out of Australia, there's so many things. No, yeah. I can't stand it. No, I went there as an exchange student when I was in high school. And then I'm like, dude, I'm coming back. I'm going to fall in love with Vegemite. And yeah, never worked out. Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor. And we're back on The BobbyCast. I was asking about your kids if they love music. They do. So my friend is an artist, visual artist. And his definition of an artist is someone who appreciates beauty. Visually can take it in and appreciate it. Because he says, you know, replicating something with your hands or creating something, that's a form of art. But even just taking it in is, that's the highest form of artistry. And I feel like the same is true with music. Because I have both my kids. They love it. They take it in and they can, they'll play different instruments. But I think too about kids that have autism or on the spectrum in different ways that may never be able to replicate a song or create it with their fingers. But the music moves them in ways that maybe doesn't move anyone else in the room. They love music and they feel it on that level. I think most kids do. I'm in the, I asked about your kids. We had a baby like two weeks ago. No way. First baby. Congrats. It's incredible. And so now I'm just deciding what scientifically I want to do to her to make her, like, you know, the science experiment. Yes. Yeah. And so like, what do I want to make her like? Oh, well, I will say this. You stack the deck. I had all the playlists up until like five or six or seven. You can, you hold all the cards. So like, I would even take my daughter to record stores before she could talk. There's a space, this is a spot called lose records. All the records that you want, right? And I would pick, I'd go through and pick albums that I wanted. I'd say, okay, you want Miles Davis or do you want, you know, this, this Bob Dylan record? And it hold them up both up to her. And she would be like, eh, eh. And I'd be like, okay, put this one down. And then I'd pick up a David Bowie record. Which one do you want? And she would, and so ultimately she would pick what we would get. And then we'd go home and put it on and we'd listen to it. And that was kind of one of our traditions. And the other thing, I mean, with Spotify or anything, you are seeding the field. You're saying this is music and it can be whatever you think good music is. And that's what she's going to have as her foundational element of what she loves, which is pretty awesome. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. I'm not going to get her into coffee though. No coffee? Yeah. So that means she's going to be like getting coffee in the back alley. Like, you know, my dad doesn't know I'm doing this. But yeah. Two final questions for you. So talking about music, like what was it that you listened to as a kid that you still find that if you're putting music on, you still turn it on because you make, makes you feel comfortable? Oh. Oh. So Aretha was my mom and dad are both musicians. And so music was always on a lot of records. And my mom had a like mostly male artists looking back and my mom didn't really tolerate too many female singers. She had she was very particular. She loved Motown. But so Aretha was one of the voices that felt like, you know, almost like a mother kind of tone for me. It just felt like, you know, that that's that's what heaven sounds like. So Aretha feels like my my childhood. Final question. Well, let me say this first before we get to the final question. We mentioned it already. The new album Forever Now comes out June 26th. There's a lot of a lot of reasons for that date, like we talked about. Yes. Wake up. Mr. Crow is out now and I'm not crazy for thinking that felt a little bit like stars, at least to me. Yes. Maybe I was nervous about it. I was nervous about the same thing to you. I feel it. I feel it. Let's go. Thank you. Thank you. And I'd like for you to be honest with me. I can show you why it feels similar. Okay. Please do. Which that's tuned. Yeah. Okay. So the yeah. So this is they're both in drop D. Which is definitely like the 14 year old tuning where you're like, yeah, 14 year old. I love that. Sounds heavy. So stars. It has that. Right. And then the so it has a drop D droning and they're also very similar BPMs and they have that a lot of the dissonance. So yeah, they're their their their brothers or sisters. I don't know the gender, but they're one of those two. At least strong cousins. Yeah. I have double cousins. Ever heard of that? Oh, is that an Arkansas thing? Or I don't know what double cousins are. I'm sorry. So my mom and her sister, two sisters, married my biological dad and his brother. No way. So two sisters married two brothers. So all offspring, we're all doubled up like everybody that's related to them. So the people that live in the alley behind me when I was writing meant to live. Same thing. The brothers that married two sisters. Yeah. So we're almost incest, but not quite. No, no, no, no incest. No, no, no. I agree. No, I just said almost. The tree goes up with no branches come out, but it's not. Oh my gosh, but almost feels. Yeah, you can almost walk off the cliff, but you didn't fall off the cliff and die. That's where we are. Okay. Okay. Almost almost. Almost final question. Okay. And please be honest with me here, because I had asked, hey, I wonder what John's like, because I'm always curious of an impression before I get to make my first impression. I like to tell you what that is. Did anybody tell you anything about me coming into this room at all? The only text I received was like five minutes before. Did you know what you were coming? No, no. So you just string, you just follow feet and you came here and you didn't know what you're walking into. Yeah, kind of didn't know. I knew I was like, I knew you were affiliate with sports and the dancing with the stars. And that was kind of it. That's hilarious because that's like my eighth and ninth jobs. Okay. All right. That's what I'm saying. Okay. Good. So what information did you have before you walked in here at all? I can read you the text message if that's okay. I hope it's like strikingly good looking. It's very attractive. Super funny. He smells great. Yes. I don't know why that was relevant, but yeah. Okay. It says, for the sake of posterity, pretending you've never heard of Bobby Bones for a second, well-known radio host in the country space has a syndicated morning show on iHeartRadio. He's also done some hosting. He's on American Idol as a coach, one dancing with the stars, and kind of all over the place. Interview should be fairly straightforward. Hit me up if you have any questions. Chris and I will see you there shortly. All right. So that was what I knew. Do you know what this is on? No. Okay. This is the show on Netflix. Okay. I'm glad. I didn't know. By the way, I'm Bobby. Nice to meet you, John. Yeah, great to meet you too. I was like, yeah, that sounds fun. I love talking about music and I heard about the vinyl component. I'm like, yeah, that sounds great. Did you enjoy this? I loved it. Okay. I loved it. I mean, what's not to love? We got to talk about our favorite spots on the planet and Miles Davis. Okay. Yeah. What I was- You've got to teach me some dance moves now. No, you don't want that. Okay. You will somehow get worse. If I teach you anything dancing. What I was told was, John is so nice, it's going to blow you away. That was what I was told about you coming in here. Okay. When I say that, how does that make you feel? Nice is an interesting adjective. I agree. I agree. I appreciate being kind and yet niceness is actually something I'm trying to figure out, come to terms with. Nice doesn't always resonate with me. Yes. But I think it was meant in a way of you're really going to like him because he's a very kind and he'll be generous guy. I think that's what the sentiment was. Yes. And met fully. You're the Grand Canyon. You're better than the Grand Canyon. Like I expected and then, whoa, look at this thing. Like it was that. Wow. Okay, I'll take it. Yes. Like India status, Grand Canyon. Yeah, for sure. Okay. But yeah, I have trouble with nice because there are people that are nice, but it doesn't feel genuine. Yeah. Well, and it's that thing where, yeah, I think, yeah, there's a lot there. But I think for me, yeah, nice is a strange one. And I think I'm trying to present myself. I want to be kind. I want to be honest. I want to be, and I think sometimes nice can shave off all the, but I'm coming to you with you know, some scruff. So here we go. I've really enjoyed this. I have too. Thank you for your time. This has been awesome. And we talked about the record before you got here. Congratulations. And I'm just a big fan. So I've been a big fan for a long time. So for me, this is thrilling to be able to sit and spend this time with you and not totally swing and miss on stars. Let's go. Yes. Yes. All right. There he is. John, thanks for your time, man. All right. Thank you. Thanks for listening to a Bobby cast production. This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.