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It mixes easily with water or smoothies, making it simple, enjoyable routine that you can stick to every single day. Right now get 15% off the super elixir at wellco.com and use Kate Casey 15 at checkout. Try it for yourself and feel a difference within weeks. That's W-E-L-L-E-C-O.com code Kate Casey 15 at checkout for 15% off the super elixir. 15% off at W-E-L-L-E-C-O.com promo code Kate Casey 15. First time orders only. Welcome back for another episode of Reality Life of Kate Casey. Today is part two of my interview with James Manzy. The first interview I did was on Saturday and I wanted to bring them back to talk about the latest developments in this ongoing conversation, centering on the investigation, the ongoing investigation, into the disappearance of Nancy Gawthry. Nancy Gawthry is 84 years old. She's a mother, a grandmother, the mother of Savannah Gawthry, best known as the longtime co-anchor of NBC's Today Show. Now Savannah is a public figure, but her mother is not. And yet for the past eight days Nancy Gawthry's disappearance from her home in the Catalina Foothills area of Tucson, Arizona, it's become a national story because of the disturbing evidence left behind and a growing concern that she was taken against her will. Nancy was last seen at her home on January 31st and reported missing the following day. Since then, local authorities and the FBI have treated this as a suspected kidnapping. There are no publicly named suspects, no confirmed persons of interest, and law enforcement has not stated whether Nancy Gawthry is alive, only that the case remains active and deeply concerning. Investigators have confirmed that bloodmatching Nancy's DNA was found at the scene. They've also pointed to disruptions involving her doorbell camera and her peacemaker app, details that suggest force, movement, and intent. Over the weekend, the investigation escalated further when authorities searched a septic tank and a manhole on the property. This was a significant shift and one that underscores the seriousness of the situation. Multiple ransom notes have been reported by media outlets, some allegedly demanding payment in Bitcoin, with one figure circulating around $6 million. Belong enforcement is not verified that these messages are authentic or connected to whoever may be responsible. What has been confirmed is that Savannah Gawthry and her two siblings have released two videos pleading publicly for their mother's return, saying that they are willing to pay a ransom but only with proof that Nancy is alive. It's important to note outside of those two videos, no one in the family, beyond the three siblings, has given any media interviews. Nancy Gawthry's health is also a critical factor. She requires daily medication and is considered medically vulnerable. Authorities have acknowledged that reality while continuing to say that they have not lost hope. There has been political and public attention as well. Senator Mark Kelly has shown visible support for law enforcement on the ground. The White House has confirmed personally that they have called Savannah early into the case to offer federal assistance and assurance that resources were being deployed. And at the same time, some early social media narratives particularly claims about Savannah calling political figures before law enforcement have not been confirmed by major news outlets and remain unverified. So that is why I am bringing James Mansey back. He has a retired US Army colonel, a former FBI special agent, and the principal and owner of off-solutions, a management consulting firm that works closely with national security clients on risk, leadership, and complex operations. His career includes senior leadership roles within the US Army Special Operations Command, joint special operations command, and organizations that deal every day with uncertainty, hostage scenarios, and high stakes investigations. In part one, we focused on the basics, what stands out, what doesn't, and why this case feels different. And in part two, we go deeper into the investigative strategy, the latest updates as well. This is not about speculation, it's about understanding the process, what law enforcement can say, what they can, and why silence at times is part of the strategy. So here is my interview with James. James, thank you for coming back. Thanks, Kate. Thanks for having me. So a couple additional questions for you with no suspects that are publicly named yet. What does it usually tell you about where investigators are in the process, all of these days out? I'm not surprised that they wouldn't publicly announce any suspects. And obviously they're trying to protect their investigation in any inclination or dissemination of that. You know, you've seen probably in whether it's media, you know, people of interest, things like that. It's generally not helpful for the investigation, especially in a case like this, it's getting a lot of media exposure and such. So it's even magnified more to keep everything close to the best. So when they release very little information in the cases till active, is there more often strategic restraint or is it a lack of solid leads? I'll say I'll give the fault to the bureau that it's a strategic restraint. I never want to say there's any lack of leads. I did see a couple things recently that would tend to make me believe that there's some things are happening. Obviously the recent searches, the family's residents, also the primary location. At this stage, what kind of breakthroughs typically happen quietly before the public, even here's about them? I would say you're either going to see a technology breakthrough, i.e. things we talked about in the last interview, whether it's cell phones, internet type related or even related to the ransom, IP addresses. There's been enough time now with public exposure. Could be a human source comes in or not a related family member, somebody that might have information and such. I think those are the things are most likely to kick in now or possibly any new evidence they might have acquired at the recent searches they've conducted as well. When outside media is contacted again, what does that usually indicate about the kidnappers internal stress or confidence? This is rather unique and traditionally, I say that in the past, things I was exposed to, generally it was a one-on-one interaction with the family, maybe law enforcement's involved behind the scenes. This is rather unique and the fact that it went public right away, generally that wouldn't help traditional kidnappings based on the communication levels are going at it. So this is rather unique that they've chosen this format to go into the public right away. Investigators have pointed to blood evidence and the disruptions to both the doorbell camera and the pacemaker app. What does that combination suggest to you operationally? Again, blood evidence can confirm the victim or suspect in this case. I think they tied it back to her DNA. In that case, it definitely brings credibility to confirm. It was a forceful deduction. Obviously, she's bleeding, so either she struggled as most people would imagine to or she was forcibly and obviously restrained, dragged, pulled, whatever they did to cause an injury for her to bleed. How significant is it when multiple systems appear to be interfered with rather than just one? I'd say today with technology, obviously apps are apps, I think in this case, whether it's an app for a cardio device or it was a cell phone, you know, the technology is so synonymous today. Anybody who's committing a crime in any venue, so to say, I think they look at the app as an app. I wouldn't put any big weight on the fact that it was a doorbell camera versus a CCTV camera. They're all that's become and the soup of the month, right? Everybody's looking for the tech. They want to disable everything. So I think that doesn't make any specific highlights to me or indicate or target possibly the identity of the suspects. So then does tampering with medical monitoring technology suggest a higher level of awareness or desperation? Well, in this case, from what I've read, obviously, open source, it sounds like her piecemaker was linked to some type of app on her phone. So in this case, it would be no different than any other app on the phone, whether it disabled it or more. But I do see the value in the fact that if that app is tracked somewhere else, if it reports back to someone else's monitoring team, externally, that could help validate some of the timelines when that was disabled, which could then help law enforcement continue or focus that investigation in a more narrow venue versus being all over the map. So I have some questions about the ransom communications. Authorities haven't verified whether the ransom notes are authentic. So from your experience, how do professionals assess whether a ransom demand is truly connected to the abduction? Yeah, obviously this is unique being that it was displayed initially into a public forum versus directly to the family. That definitely attracts some scrutiny on validity upfront, not that I'm saying it's not a real kidnapping, but that would open the door to any type of falsehood or copycats such as that because all that information is public. Now they're putting it out. I think the last note they decided not to we saw it exact demands. But the timing and back to your question, timing, the context, is it including specific events to bring credibility? You know, we always talk about proof of life. There's ways we can demonstrate that. What were their communication methods? You know, in this case, they do want to create links to conceal their delivery method through IP addresses and all these things. And again, the language, their behavioral analysis. Someone I'm guessing probably at the FBI and the analytical side is going through every word and how are these chosen? Was it a chat, GBT text or somebody handcrafted the exact words? And now that there's two, they have something to compare it to and they can also compare that globally. Don't think that they're just looking to these as a one-up event. They're probably looking around the world to see if this could be tied to some other type of event as well or regionally or statewide as well. So in this case, the amount has changed significantly. Well, first of all, the demand's vary in amount or medium, like Bitcoin. What does that usually indicate about the sender going from one million to six million? I don't want to tag it as doing, but the escalated that quickly, it could be a couple of things. And the suspectuation on my part, one, they're getting a lot of public notoriety. They're increasing her status in the public, making her a quasi-sale. They're getting public opinion on her, right? So they're like, hey, it was asked for more money. Or there could be a deterioration in her health, which is escalating the timeline in which they want to get paid. There's a variety of factors, but I would say that those are probably the most open or the baselines of why they could be increasing this. So Savannah and her siblings have released videos that plead for her return. The newest video is short and the language included that they want to celebrate their mom. Is it fair for anyone to speculate whether there's a message behind that as well in terms of whether or not she's alive? Well, obviously, it's probably not surprised anyone. The FBI or the police or whoever is helping them craft these messages. It's just the way it is. We, in law enforcement want to ensure that the family's not coming off as desperate, because obviously, desperation is going to increase value, which is going to increase. They're going to ask for more money. The other part of that is, you don't want to set false timelines. We'll do anything to get back. All these things are very careful. So the fact that it was very short to the point that that was very strategic upon the people mentoring them. I'm guessing the family probably took some convincing to go that route because I'm sure they're very anxious to get their loved one back. But in the end, it's how we communicate with these people to ensure the safe return of the hostage. From a negotiator's perspective, what should families avoid saying publicly at this point? Goes back to what we said, putting in a sense of desperation, relaying any threats, tipping off any progress that they might be aware of from the law enforcement side, overtly or accidentally, like, hey, we know who you are, we know where you're at. Panou, the new came in. All these things, it's a matter of, and it's not intentionally trying to disrupt the investigation, but people are under what's end with this as far as the family. And it's a matter of, you know, consoling them and keeping them, you know, understanding that everything that they say and do couldn't be, although they could be positive and helping, it can definitely deter what law enforcement is trying to achieve. We've seen public support from Senator Mark Kelly and also outreach from the White House. How does political attention affect an investigation like this? Generally, at the level of the investigation, that's going to come through the higher office. Let's say it's the director and it's kind of filtered down. At the end of the day, the law enforcement people are doing their job. Back in my time, we just chewed it out. It doesn't, if anything, it just causes more waves at the top. I mean, I get the support and all that, but on the field, on the ground level, it doesn't really affect anything we're doing. If they want to give us more resources or more money or give us access to maybe national assets, you know, I was going to mention that at this point, obviously, this isn't a counterterrorism case, but there's things we use on the Pfizer side and the counterterrorism side that might be effective in helping in a situation like this, but because of the laws, that would be something, if the government wanted to help, they could relax those restrictions and try to do something. They could be doing that. I don't know, but there are tools available that we're not allowed to use in, you know, conists that they can use internationally and that could be an assistance. So I would say, if that's something the government wants to assist in, but the pat on the back, you know, we're here to help. That's a great morale speech, but the law enforcement people are out there doing everything they get to do every day and it's kind of like Stadoverway. It just be on the streets. That's what do you, that's kind of our goes. So if a family reaches out to elected officials early on, does that intersect with any law enforcement protocols at all? I would say at the ground level, no, I think whether it's the shitter for the director of the SAC, they're going to deal with that noise and reassure that political figure, obviously you see like, I'm the governor around the center, you know, tell me what's going on. Like we have no obligation in FVI's to share any investigator matters. That's something that the director decide who he's going to share that with. That's not a GS 13 or below position, right? So we try to stay out of those conversations and the executive still have those decisions. Is there ever a risk that outside advocacy complicates negotiations or investigative leverage at all? 100 percent. Like that's another sidebar so that there's probably agents dealing on their front. There's agents dealing with the family and I guarantee there's agents dealing with the media and some capacity to make sure there's no leaks, make sure there's no disinformation, make sure there's no speculation. You know, this is the, it's moving into its second week now. And we don't, we in law enforcement, they don't need any like, well, what ifs? You know, things are very sensitive right now on the words that everyone uses and misinformation can really be a detriment to both parties here as far as the family and law enforcement. In terms of the media that are parked outside of the house and it seems like there are some people that are getting access even to the street. Does that complicate the investigation at all? Does this make it more difficult for law enforcement officials to move forward in this process? Well, it's, I'll say this is so, and it's late in real terms into the investigation now that they're, if they're going to lock the street down, they should have done it day one. At this point, it is what it is. You know, the obviously the house and it's secure. But whatever was there, is either, you know, compromised or contain, it's just, it's too late now. I think that's just it. Law is the house is secure. Like, obviously they went back the other day. But the street access is only so much you can do to keep people from going to places. And if you don't get down the first swing, especially in public spaces, in the court of the age of your car, not a look. And as someone who's out there as a look, you'll find something and calls the police. Now, I saw footage this weekend that they were seemingly looking through a septic tank. Can you obtain any sort of evidence from a septic tank? Depending, yeah, obviously, depending if there was some information why they searched in there, they could have dropped a variety of items in there. It just seems, I was kind of surprised to see that with this, you know, you think of the speed of a kid nap being trying to get off, you know, we've heard it as the ex getting off, getting out of the house as fast as possible. You know, taking the time to suppose something in that area, unless it was something that was done prior to the, say, the people who did this, you know, set outside surveiler. And they have some information that they might have been in the backyard for a period of time. And they threw something down there. I don't know, but, or they just went back and they agent our law enforcement said, hey, there's a manhole cover here. And let's look down there. It could be that simple. Okay, last few questions. From your professional standpoint, are there signals that the public should be paying attention to now? I think, I think law enforcement is going to hold a line. Something's going to happen. It's going to be, hey, we've made an arrest, right? That's what you're going to hear. Or she's been recovered. But that's, I don't see them saying anything at all, especially when you're looking at a hostage rescue here, right? At the end of the day, if they find her location, that's what it becomes. They're going to go there and they're going to take her out of that place. She's being captured in 99 out of 100 times. If not 100 times, it's going to end badly for the people holding her. Regardless of their criminal histories, regardless of their, you know, hey, we just kidnapped. It doesn't matter. They're going to get her out. And it's going to be by force. And that's just going to be how it goes. And that's what you'll see. Hey, on this day, she was recovered safely. And we hope that's the result. Are there any specific developments, even subtle ones that would suggest that they're moving toward resolution? Again, we're just, we're at the mercy of the communication between the kidnappers and the ransom and the family. It's really on their timeline. I mean, obviously, whether the FBI, you know, they're going to need some validation of proof or life before something's paid. I can't imagine them making a payment without proof of life. It's just, it just, that would be unusual. So that could draw out, I was under the impression from what I read today. There's a five o'clock suspense time for it. So we'll see what happens today if the ransom's not paid. That'll probably set the set the tone really. That'll be the third communication. But then probably a really good idea of what this looks like is my guess. And my last question is, having proximity to so many families that have gone through this before, what is the best way for the general public to be in support of the gothrey family throughout this process? You know, obviously, if you see something, you know, something call, go through the process and report it. You know, that's for any type of crime list. But this one is time sensitive, because we're dealing with human life, age of the victim. You know, wanting to help one thing, and then overly helping is another, you know, putting pressure on the police or complaining or like, you know, you see both ends of the spectrum today and the news, right? That just makes it worse for guys on the group. You know, people on the ground trying to do their job. I can honestly tell you and I haven't worked in the Phoenix division, everyone's trying to find this woman and they're working 24 hours a day. So you just got to have faith in the system. You know, love them or a law enforcement, they're doing their job and they're going to, they're going to do their best to find this woman. And just let them, like I said, let them do their job. Be supportive. And if you see thing or they're not communicating, it's not because they don't like the public, but they know how to go about these things and whether it's a kidnapping or counterterrorism, it's, these are really unique hate because it's a time sensitive human life. And you're dealing with an unknown entity. It's not your traditional, you know, counterterrorism. It's just, it's, it's really unique. And that's why I said, it's that time we spoke. The FBI is very experienced and do have any stings and people just have to trust the fact that these guys are, girls are experts at working these types of events. As always, I really appreciate your time and your insight. Thanks, Kate. Always a pleasure. I would think James once again, it reminds you to make sure that you click subscribe. Please leave a five star review, join the Facebook group reality life with KKC. You can get my list every week of what to watch in unscripted TV by going to kkc.substac.com and also check out bonus episodes on Apple and on Patreon PATR EON dot com back such KKC and follow me on social media. I'm on Instagram at KKCCA, TikTok it's KKC and Twitter threads and Blue Sky at KKC. Check back tomorrow for an on-new episode.
