Elle Duncan gets REAL on Alex Honnold's climb on Netflix, leaving ESPN | 01.30

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And then we realize like no one calls them a tomato or a potato. But like the root route. But then there is just a right way to say things and just a wrong way to say thing. And in Webster's version, if that's not what it is, like I always just refer to the dictionary fair, fair, but I'm a little too southern fall to that. And I would be honest with you, one of the benefits of being both money Jones is, uh, I'll go right with it all. Some of these, like I made some decisions that I want to say things the way that I want to say them. For example, when I went to Iceland, I decided it's Iceland now. And you have to admit that Iceland sounds better than Iceland. Well, yeah, and it's very literal. I mean, it's the Iceland. It's a land of ice. So it makes total sense. That's what I'm saying, right? So like I'm making some calls that over here, we go and do things a little differently. There's a little modality in my jazz when I do. Over here. Well, so, but would you, would you block it someone saying portland? Or if they could pull it off. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, like, if you can pull it off, you go ahead and do that. Like my man, he could pull it off. Okay. Yeah. All right. But I want, I want to speak of pulling things off the ability to pull things off that I could never pull off. This is a mean segue. You was over there in Taiwan. Um, with my man, Alex. And for those of you who don't know who Alex is, Alex climb stuff. It's a free soloing. I believe it's what they call it. There was a documentary called free solo that people have told me about. And the description of it is, it's really stressful. So I haven't seen it because that uncut gym shit is not really my idea of a good time, right? Like, oh my God, I'm afraid this guy might die. Now, we know we're not going to die because he keep doing stuff, but he was still that was kind of sort of, well, what they have made that documentary if he died. I think that's the question I always have. Maybe I mean, they've definitely done that with documentaries. And honestly, like, you know, let's be real. Like sort of in our society, like something like that would actually do particularly well. I don't think when they made free solo, it was like thinking that it would be some, you know, box office. That's not why you make nature videos or climbing videos or any of those things. It was just so compelling. I had seen free solo years ago. Then when I got this project, I watched it again. Um, you know, with more of an eye of like wanting to ask him these things that I was feeling when I was watching it. But it is, but that's the beauty of that, that I think that, um, movie is that you knew he lived and there were still just this dread in this anxiety. And we all knew that Alex was like perfectly capable of climbing this, like technically, it wasn't super challenging. I mean, he did LCAP, which is like the most technically challenging free solo ever, which is why I did it and spent three years on it. Um, Alex just always wanted to like climb a skyscraper. And this one's climbable. And, uh, and everyone felt like he could do it, but there were still just like so much dread and anxiety and tension. All right. And for people who don't know what it means to free solo this thing and you correct me if I'm wrong here, he climbs it just with his hands and feet. Yeah. Rodog. Yeah. Yeah. Which is Rodog the building. There's no ropes. There's no harnesses. There's no parachute. There's no net like, uh, if you fall, you die. So and that's the same thing he did with El Capitan, right? Yeah. Absolutely. If you fall, you die. Like it's just as simple as that. Yeah. You know what I got to say, man, you know, we are all different kinds of people, right? But if you tell me on one hand, you get to the top and you get amazing views. On the other hand, you die and you die is not like way off on the board of possibilities, right? Like, like you die on its face, scenes, even not probable, even if not possible, but simply on the board, you'd be able to bet on it. I would not do this. You had experience being around climbing world and getting ready for this and when he decided to and how to say so and catch people up also, he climbed this sky scrape for it was a Taipei 101. Right. And is that 101 because there's a 101 stories? Yeah, 101 stories. But then he went above that and he climbed the tower, which is like not floor. So, but it was another like 300 meters. Yes. Okay. And it's a building. It was almost 1700 feet. Yeah. That he climbed. So what, what did you pick up as you were immersed in this world? Yeah. I got a chance to go out and spend time with Alex at his house and I spent the day with him and his wife who absolutely adore. She's amazing. Sonny and their kids, like I, you know, played in the kitchen with his daughters. I think what I learned through that, through the process of just watching everything that Alex has ever done and like interviews and documentaries that he's done is it's not about the views. Like I'm sure that that's, you know, I've asked them about that. They're like, by the time we do something like that, we've scouted it, right? Like we've done test climbs. Like it's not about the views so much. It's about like, and why specifically he free solos is like the mastery of something that you would be willing to put your life on the line because you are, you have such a belief that you've mastered this thing and that you are so calculated that you've planned. I mean, he keeps like, you know, these extensive journals. You know, this isn't, I think there was just like this misconception that he's just this like, hippie weirdo robot dude who just like is reckless and just has like a death wish and is a thrill seeker like that. It couldn't be more opposite. He's actually like a quite sensible, super smart. He is so smart. Like he's like, mince a smart. And insightful and questions a lot. He's very direct. Like I really like him as a person. And I think he just makes a really compelling argument about like facing fear about taking risk and, you know, he made me think like a lot differently about my life and the challenges and things that we're willing to take. And how you have to really like put yourself in tough situations in order to sort of appreciate not making mountains out of mull hills. You know, we talked about even horror movies and he was like, people do those cheap thrills because they want to feel like safe fear. They want to feel a little bit of like jump scare fear. And if they faced anything real in their life and they wouldn't need that to feel fulfilled, you know, and it's he's just a really interesting dude. And what I learned is that like he loves climbing. Like he has loved climbing since he was a little kid and it's not for us to conceive why he would put his life on the line. But he is that he works that hard at this. And he's just said like, I love the air around me. I don't love the ropes. He really, really make sure that it's something that he believes he can accomplish. He's talked about the fact that of course he visualizes everything, but he visualizes his death because it's a possibility. And he doesn't run from fear. It's not that he doesn't feel fear. And Bo, there's a lot of that going around right now. He's a big deal of thing. You know, he has a no fear response. And he's like, that's not true. It's just that he faces fear so much because rock climbing in general by nature is a very dangerous sport, even with ropes. That he's just learned to work through fear because he's faced it a lot. First of all, shout out to him for being meant to smart and having a wife. Like, let's, let's, let's, let's throw that out there. Well done. You know, like a beautiful one. Like, you know, the same. You said it first. I just looked her up and I was like, Oh, hey, wait, no, hey, man, get good at something. People that that'll, that'll, that'll help get you into places. You know, that number, you know, we got that number two. It was interesting that he said that the idea that people do like horror movies and the cheap thrills because they've never done anything real. And if they've done anything real, then they wouldn't need all those sorts of things. And I was like, look at Alex Honnell, son of like every black person talk about why people do a shit like bungee jumping and climbing mountains without ropes. Like little did he know that he is on both sides of the continuum. Right. Wasn't a question that he's happy right there. Right. Absolutely. And like, and I do think, you know, it's so funny too. I think it's culturally, you know, I'm a black girl from the South. Like black people do not understand this world. I was getting text messages from friends that were like, this is truly us witnessing white history, you know, and I'm laughing. But I think what I learned about spinning time with the climbers in all honesty and genuinely is that like what they believe and sort of the ideals that they have don't have to be relegated to just like white people. Now proximity is important. Like most of these people grew up, you know, with very active parents or they're from Colorado or they're from Tahoe. You know, these places that are very outdoorsy. So proximity to rocks and mountains and all that obviously helps like foster a love of this. But you know, like connecting with nature, taking risk, focus. I'm very ADD and I learned just even playing around in Alex's gym because I have never climbed a day in my life that it really focuses you, it forces you to like focus on like one move at a time and strategy and like that part is really cool. And I don't think that that has to be something that is just for white people. So I'm not advocating that black people, you know, start going to red rock and climbing every week. I'm not saying like that's that we all need to aim to do that. I think that we can be more open minded about people like that because they are the most interesting people like boat, you know, at the end we're like, you know, we're all having drinks at the bar like just to celebrate that it's over in Alex lived. And you're asking, you're asking all the crew members who by the way are also all climbers and things like that, you know, what are you doing after this? Right? And like one of them is like, oh, I'm going to like a base camp and pop a new guinea because I've been helping a tribe that who's trying to stop the logas from taking their village. And then you ask someone else and he's like, I'm going to repel down an Argentinian volcano to try to find like they're, they've traveled the world. They're so it's an exclusive sport and that not a lot of people do it, but they're so inclusive and open minded and they're wonderful people. And so I don't know. I just think like their spirit of adventure and seeing the world is is something that like we can all be inspired by. I just started reading a book called called all A W E. And it is about the idea, the science behind the feeling of all and the different ways that all is generated within people and all of these things. And it's really interesting. And it's something I had some of these observations, though, and do somewhat chemically, but it was the idea that the importance of finding things in your life that generate all and the kind of humbling nature that comes from all and how it can allow you to like improve your levels of focus and things like that to consistently. And they're, you know, they're and made the point that there's small things in your life that generate all. So what was interesting having read that yesterday and hearing what you were just saying is the number one thing that brings out all is I think moral beauty was the term that they use, but like watching people do incredibly kind things generates all in those who observe them, right? And so hearing you talk about these people who are clearly talking about a sport that induces all in a number of reasons, ways, right? Like, for example, all, which is not always generated like in this positive sense, sometimes you can be in awe of worst case scenario, right? The magnitude of what could be bad, which I think would be an example of what happens if you don't get it right on a climb, for example, but it was stand to reason that the people who look at who who engage in that awe inspiring activity would also engage in this moral sense of all, you know, awe inspiring, hey, we're going to go help some people turn some shit around. Where they are or whatever it is. Yes, absolutely. Like I think, and I just think it's a byproduct of like traveling the world, you know, and like go into these places and to your point, like really respecting nature, they respect nature so much, right? That they know that to take on these really big challenges and obstacles that nature's thrown our way, they have to be practiced and they have to, you know, really like think about the logistics and they have to think about strategy. And it's because they love the earth that much. They want to be in it. They want to be challenged by it. I just think it's, you know, I truly like every space that I've ever been in that I was unfamiliar with and had to learn about. I can always glean, you know, really interesting things that lead me to want to support that sport. But man, I got to say that with this in particular, just being around them really made me like start to sort of like ponder not to sound too existential, but ponder like my life in general and the way that, you know, I calculate risk and, you know, I dangled off of the building at 90 stories because I just was so inspired to like do something that maybe scared me into sea. You know, I didn't know if I was scared of heights because I'd never tested that. And it turns out I actually kind of wasn't like there were some moments that freaked me the cow, but like for the most part, I felt, you know, really good and comfortable. And so, you know, it really stretched me in a way that was like necessary at this time in my life when I'm doing some evolution and some metamorphosis anyway. And I was just really grateful to be a part of the project. Got that. Oh, that all that all I did. I really did. I just don't talk about that on the show moments where it's just like, Hey, man, that all that all strikes you, right? Like it could be something beautiful that you see the magnitude in nature. I think was like the third one that was listed on that is like the idea of it. So it's interesting. You were doing this, which was in a much more man-made situation, but like instructions of man were another thing that were on the list of things that are all inspiring, like the mere idea of a skyscraper still is kind of crazy when you think about it. The fact that somebody could construct this at all and that it stands in everything else, let alone try to climb. Absolutely. And this particular building is so beautiful, though. It's so pretty, you know, when you see it in person and, you know, although ornaments on it and it's stunning and it just, you know, Alex says that's why it always interested him is because it's so singular. It literally just juts out of this city. You know, it's like you have a lot of really tall buildings in Taiwan, but then you just have this just monstrosity that sits out in a beautiful way, though. And it really actually like, I don't know that skyscrapers always like make the landscape better, but somehow it doesn't Taiwan. I don't know. It's, it's, or in Taipei. It's, it's pretty cool. So it was interesting guy was reading some of this before we came on. And I did not realize that there had been some, you know, and I saw the way that you talked about it, like discussion about what it was like for you observing this and calling the actual event because like play by play on a he might die. That is a lot. And I thought was interesting here. You say like, Hey, you know, while I was doing it, I thought I was holding it down and it in total control. And then I went back and listen to him was like, Oh, okay, I was amped up. I don't know how you're not amped up. And I like, like that's one of those things you can only get the practice of doing by actually doing it. So you don't get a chance to be like, Yeah, well, we just want somebody practice climate building. And now I'm cool. I'm straight. Yeah. I mean, and we tried a couple times like he was supposed to do some practice times with it rain. So we wouldn't, and again, it's not the same thing. He has a rope on like we know he's fine. You know, like, yeah, I mean, I think again, like you know, when you're doing something like in the moment, you're like, Yeah, I'm in my flow state. Then you go back and you're like, whoa, it's not in my flow state. I think, you know, legitimately, I think I went in with like some objectives, like it was so important to me to try to tell Alex the story because I had just had this opportunity to like really consume a lot of Alex and learn a lot from him and learn a lot about him. So I was like so amped to like share with people at home, you know, that we're going, who's this crazy white boy? Like I wanted to be like the one to help contextualize. And you know, I wanted to contextualize the greatness of him doing this at 40 years old. You know, we talk about Tom Brady and LeBron James, like, look at this dude's doing at 40, right? And I wanted to talk about him as a dad. Like these are all sort of things that people always bring up about Alex, how irresponsible. And so I kind of went in with these objectives. And we didn't know what the tone was going to be like at first, like what he'd be very serious on the climb or not. And right away, he seemed to be really be rambling in it, you know, and he was being a show in and he's waving and he's high five and people through the glass. So to me, the tone from where I'm sitting is like more celebratory. I have all of these people around. I mean, the people of Taiwan showed up. There was thousands of people on the street. And so we're at this park and we have all these people. And the energy to me, like from where I was sitting on the desk felt very much like the energy I was used to a sporting event. So you know, where it's just like, oh my God, like everyone's like cheering and they're groaning. And so I'm feeding off the energy. And when I went back and watched it, it was like, oh my gosh, no, no, no, no, right? Like I'm also getting traffic, right? Like I have a producer in my ear reset. It like all of these things, right? So you know, like a million things are happening at once, which is fine. That's where you said that. And so I, but when I went back to watch it, I was like, oh man, my tone was just wrong. Like my tone was off because I was broadcasting for sort of the energy that was around me. But there was millions of people at home and it was in their living room and it was tense. And it was like, and all of that could have breathed so much more. And my energy just didn't meet that particular moment. And that's okay. Like again, I went in with like no information or blueprint because no one's literally done this before. We just didn't know what it would feel like. And now that I've seen something like this, you know, I sort of laughed and I'm like, I said yesterday when I was talking to awful announcing, like, you kind of go, man, if I had another crack at it, but it's like, whoever is going to do something like that again, right? It was such a unique situation. So yeah, like I'm trying not to beat myself up to bad. I'm critical of myself always. But I think, you know, ultimately it was still like a really tough thing to do. I'm really proud of myself for attempting to do it even though I had, you know, no experience and no blueprint. We were the control. And if Alex decides to climb, I don't know, the birch caliefer or something, I think we would all do things differently, you know? And so namely me. So, you know, but you live and you learn. And it would listen, getting to do this product, like getting dunked on on social media is like such a small price for getting to do this project. It was so fulfilling and I'm not going to let anybody take that for me. I am sorry I talked through it. I don't want to listen to myself talk for two hours either. I get it even in radio, right? I was able to break up my voice with songs. So I get it. But yeah, I think I hope that people still revel in the actual like cinema of it. I mean, they got like cinematography level cameras. They didn't get regular TV cameras. They like had to create a rigging system. Bo like this was a logistical marvel. How they pulled this off to give what I think was one of the most beautifully shot things. So watch it and just like mute it if you don't want to hear me. It's totally fine. You should just like still watch it and just see this incredible feat. First of all, I admire your confidence in being able to be like, yeah, you know what? Could have been a little bit better, but I really enjoyed it. Dada, Dada and like the tone that you have in saying that is truly something admirable to watch and observe. The other thing that I thought was interesting in hearing you say it. And I thought is actually something a lot of people who want to do this can learn from what you've said. And honestly, a lot of people who still do it need to understand that it's kind of like the Star Spangled Banner. You can't start all the way up here when you're saying the Star Spangled Banner. Yeah, no, no, no. Last note is so high that you're never going to be able to get there, right? And you're always stuck at this height that makes it impossible for you to get any higher. And a lot of people have that. Like when I did game theory, a point that I learned while doing it was, if somebody was saying to me, hey, give us more energy by reflex, I would get louder because that is the proxy for energy. But then you don't give yourself anywhere to go when you do that, right? Absolutely. And so for something like start out of 10, right? And so for something like that, you're, it only makes sense that you start high. But then it's like, damn, we're going to be here the whole time. Like I once watched a AC DC concert on YouTube. And that shit was great for like 25 minutes. But I can't keep up AC DC energy for two hours. Right. It was just too much. I had to turn it off. Absolutely. It has to build. It really does. And, and you know, I super recognized like that I was also dealing with like just the anxiety of like, again, I've built a bit of an affection for Alex and like, you know, five minutes before we go on air, you know, this lovely woman walks over and hands me a card that's just sitting on my lap the whole time. That was a reminder that every time he made one of those moves that he could die. And I would have to pop on camera, right? And you know, when I get nervous or anxious, I just like, I'm a fast talker. And you know that about me. I really tried to intentionally slow down when I'm broadcasting. But in that moment, I just like talked through it, you know, it's like, so yeah. So I get it, you know, I, but it is. It's a lesson two for broadcasters that like you have to remember who you're broadcasting to. And you have to remember, you know, the tension and all of those things were innate. You know, I didn't have to tell you how dangerous it was. It was clear how dangerous it was, right? So it's just more about like getting out of the way. And I was intentional about getting out of the way at the end. I wanted to do that one line of like, you know, Alex Honol's done it. He's made history. And then I laid out for like five minutes, seven minutes, maybe, you know. So I tried to, to at the end sort of get my mic green on and get out of the way. But I definitely needed to do it a lot earlier. And as soon as I started watching it back, I was like, oh yeah, yeah. This is, I started here on a state there the entire time. Just didn't fit. Had to Broncos already lost yet. No. Okay. I know you had down taken all kinds of Ls. I knew you had that on your mind. Like right now I talked about this. We were like somewhere right now. It's six o'clock in the morning in Taiwan. And L is at some bar screaming. No. And the people around don't know what's happened. No, they didn't have any, they did not have any Broncos football, nothing. So I was getting like live texted by my mom and Omar, my husband, the entire time. Like, you know, and they're, their interpretations of the games are so funny. You know, my mom is like a true Broncos fan. Omar doesn't carry his Falcons fan. Still he is still on the narcotic boat. And so she's like, you know, that mother, you're decided to go for it. That got it. You know, and Omar is like, man, Sean Peyton out here, Sean Peyton needs. And I knew exactly what that means. That's all he had to say. So I'm just getting like live text and listen, I had no expectation to win. But it's one of those where you go in super chill because you're like, whatever, we're going to win this game. We're playing with Jared Stinem. And then you have like a few opportunities to win the game. And so you get like really invested and then you get more pissed. But yeah, it is what it is, man. Hey, since you brought it up and I forgot about this. Is Omar one of these Falcons fans that is down on the Stafansky higher in the name of Dion and Shedore? I literally, this is what I what he said when I was like, Oh, what do you think about a Stafansky? He went and then he just walked out of the room. So that's that's his level of investment at this point of the Falcons. Like, you know, listen, we all know where this is headed. You know, two years fired again. Like, I don't know. Where do you weigh in on that? Like, do you believe that you'd have to believe Falcons fans are invested enough to care to be our age? So what I think I find most interesting about this is the idea that there could still be this level of investment in Dion's assets, right? Because, okay. Dion is Dion is Dion is Dion is Dion is Dion is Dion, right? Yeah. The thing about talking to somebody who did some work in Atlanta back in the day and they said, and from out of town, they said the point that that was interesting to them was that because Atlanta had done so little winning, who the stars were that people embraced were not about whether or not they want anything because that mean you wouldn't care about anybody, right? So Dominique Wilkins, who's, I mean, that's my guy. Dominique Wilkins never got past the sec round the playoffs. Yeah. You know what I mean? Dion, who is interesting because he's also a brave guy at a time. When for lack of a better term, we'll call it the culture is still really cared about the braids, right? Yeah. It's big. It's giant is everything else. Stefansky clearly did not want to play Shredor Sanders, but Shredor Sanders also stunk. Like, I don't know why people can't like take that as a weekend. We can't have him coaching our other black quarterback. Look what he did to Shredor. Hey, man, stop. Yup. Stop. Stop doing that. Like, I don't know. Maybe he'll be good. Maybe he won't. I don't think it was a particularly situation that was really conducive to winning up there, especially after they went and got a Dishonel Watson on nasty ass. And then he was terrible. And then he was hurt. And then they had to go to everybody else. But it is the, the, the locals are holding. They go once the results from that man, very, very, very quickly. And if something happens and like current cousins is still there and it's Stefansky and cousins and they start off forward one sheet in my tier of country. The whole city of part of my being like with Vic got a risk. With that bad day. I'm just saying the way they are here riding in the name of D. I yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I think you know, when it comes to the two black people caping for like Shredor, we, I love us in so many ways, but we won't, won't we like make excuses and defend someone? We just do. If we decide that we're going to like go hard for you, you know who we are. Like when, when, when one of us is being attacked, for being who they are, we have a tendency to like overlook a lot of evidence and just kind of go with like, well, we're blaming this person or we're blaming that person, right? Like, God, there's nothing more evident of that than like, Oh, J Simpson or like, I don't know, Kanye West, it was a Kardashian. It's like, no, it wasn't any of that. So like we will always find a way to blame somebody else when we want to sort of like defend someone. I do think that like it was all the Inu window around Shredor, I think is where people got creative with the stories because there was a lot of it. There was like some, you're right. Like he looked bad at a lot of times and he also looks good at times. And he looked like he had something there, you know, he looked like a lot of other rookie quarterbacks, but it was just all of the Inu window about certain decisions and the stories that would get leaked that really were a breeding ground for all of these conspiracies. And, you know, and so I think there's a little bit of truth in both sides, but like the, the, I just still have a hard time believing that like, but like, so, okay, so they're upset about the hire, but like, what are they going to do? They're like, not going to go to the games. Like, you're either going to go to the games. You're either compelled after what you've seen the last 10 years to still go to these games. If you're still going to Falcons games after what you've witnessed over the last 10 years, then you don't really give a shit who the coach is. Like, you just clearly, you just, you, I don't know, maybe you just like the dough, you like the food or you just like the team, but you don't really care who's the coach. If you've been supporting all this time, it's bad. All right. We got more with the L.D. coming up next. It's the last call for football on Fan Duel, one final Sunday, one last kick off. The final chance to place your bets before the NFL season closes its tab. This is Super Bowl 60 and Fan Duel is making sure you're in on it. If you're a new customer, bet $5 and get $200 in bonus bets if you win. So whether you're backing the favorite or riding with the underdog, make it count. Because after the Super Bowl, the season's over and football is officially done. Last call for football on Fan Duel and official sports book partner of Super Bowl 60. Visit fandual.com slash Beaumonti to get started. 21 plus in president select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas, star casino or 18 plus in president DC, Kansas, Roy Elming opt in requirement. Awards are not with drawable restriction supply, including bonus and token exploration, leg requirements and max later amount in terms of sports tool dot fan, dual dot com gambling from call 100 game or visit rg-helpford.com. Visit mdgamblinghelp.org and Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelp.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24 seven support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8. Hope in Y or text. Hope in Y in New York. All right. We are bet with El Duncan. I want to ask you about this. I didn't tell you we were going to talk about this, but I didn't imagine it be a problem. You let me know if it is. I thought it was very interesting that in your last day at ESPN, you made it a point to basically be like, hey, no, it ain't so bad over here, right? Like ESPN and you know, our DSP are for a better part of 20 years. It's funny after you leave, people expect you to be really mad for whatever reason. For me, I was like, wow, you guys may be kind of reaching a little bit famous. Yeah. I hate you for that. No, not really. Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like, I don't know. I feel a lot of great, like no place is perfect. I really felt compelled because I just, I got so tired of the entire time I was here. Somebody on air would do something or say something and sometimes a lot of times it was me. And there would just sort of be this monolithic approach of like criticism. Like they, you know, like they, as if ESPN is just like this, you know, this is the absurdity of like that we all get together with an agenda of who we should be like talking shit about. It's so weird and it's wacky and you know you worked there. Like it's filled with a lot of really hard working people who have really dedicated themselves and a lot of situations, a thankless job and who are wonderful people. So I just wanted to find a way to shout them out and remind people that like when you're taking issue with stuff that people on air say or do, like you're also like taking aim at people that just don't deserve it. So, but I think in general, like I always err on the side of gratitude. I've had some breakups that like I'll never really talk about with like different networks and have talked about a little bit in the past. But things that have happened grievances that I've had, things that I'll probably say for a book one day or maybe a show that I write where you'll go, these stories can't be true and I'm like, oh, they're very true. These are all based on a true story. But I just think in general, like I wouldn't have had the opportunity to go to Netflix without all the things that ESPN gave me. They took a risk on me. I didn't have like, I had two years of experience doing sports when they hired me. Like they did not have to give me a shot and they did and then they kept promoting me and giving me more shit. Like I can't, how can I be upset with them? You know, like you always wish that you know things could have gone a little bit differently or you wouldn't have left right the relationship. But this is as close to like a Gwyneth Paltrow, Chris Smart and Conscious Uncoupling. Like we're cool. You know, like we're all good. I think, you know what I'm saying? It's all good on this side. Now ESPN, I don't think you made an interesting point there of when people talk about what ESPN is, it means something different to just about everybody. So if you're an uninvolved party, the entity is the entity, right? Like any, no matter what you want to decide is ESPN, you can kind of decide. When you work there, it kind of breaks down into different individuals. Who is this? Who is that? I don't know if you're a person who's not found for a significant stretch of time when people were really, what they didn't like about ESPN. There was one person who absolutely embodied that and that was Norton. Like that was the one when people had there, I want to say what I don't like about ESPN and you wanted to put a face to it. He was willing to be that face too, but it was that guy. That guy don't even work there anymore. Like there's nobody in my head that I could think about when I look at the place and be like, oh, this is the person. And it does hit people on the way out really hard because I think that people go into ES, go into it loving ESPN so much like it is the brand that everybody believes belongs to them in some form of fashion. And something like that can never live up to it no matter what. Because once you get in there, somebody going to do something you don't like. Like something I realized or I read in this book that made a very good point, which is, what it takes for you to say you love somebody forever, just think about what those things are. Now think about what it takes for you to say, I ain't never going to speak to them again. That second one is so much smaller. Someone has to do something to save your child's life, right? Your house was on fire and they went and called the fire department and they broke out to water hose. That's what it takes for you to love them forever. Hey, chup, she thinks she cute. That's all it is. And then boom, you never ever speak again. So when you go work at a place, no matter what the place is, that last part typically gets people. And this is also for people as viewers and as the way that they receive the people that they see on screen, it takes so little for people to check out on it, but to be on it, even people who work there, like I said, I can tell you what happened for my time at ESPN, everything changed. And I mean that in a good way. And it still surprises people that my outlook on it is not, man, fuck that. Right. I mean, listen, I also like, I always said this too whenever there would be stories that would come out about ESPN or treatment of women or really anybody at ESPN. And I would always say, I am not invalidating anybody's story at all. Again, I know this place is not perfect. I'm not like, you know, an idealist in that way. But like my experience was really good. You know what I mean? Like it was. Like I don't, I wish that I had something more salacious or it really for me was just getting to a place in my life where I was like, man, I feel like in many ways I'm going on a little bit of a treadmill. And it was like, I just wanted to see. And it was the amount of work to still feel like I was sort of doing the same things that I very much enjoyed by the way. But I just, you know, when you do those things at ESPN, there is no opportunity to sort of look around and say, is there anything else that might be interesting to me? You know, I've been wanting to write like a pilot for a show for a long time. And I've, you know, gotten it very, very close and things like that. But I don't have the bandwidth, the energy to do any of those things because I was sort of on the perpetual cycle. And that's the way that you succeed at ESPN as you try to do as much as you can, as much as possible, your value is your volume, right? Like everybody knows it as much as you can work the better. And you get it. Like they got a lot of content hours to fill. Like so, so I get it, you know, it just got for me like to a point where I was like, man, I don't, I don't know if I might be a good writer. I don't know because I've never had the chance. I don't know if I want to go do something outside of sports and host a reality show or host this guy's paper life. I don't know if, you know, I'll be good at like just chilling and being like, lot room mom and like, I don't know. I don't know any of those things, but what I do know is that I am not currently feeling very fulfilled at what my life looks like right now. Like that I knew I knew for sure something had to change. And I just chased the unknown and like, and I really respected ESPN for giving me the send off that they did. Like that was rare. I was humbled. It was almost like getting you will a judge. It's about to be alive. Like I was like, oh, wow. And overwhelming. It was really wonderful. And they were, they were wonderful about me leaving and they understood because they just knew like they couldn't compete in terms of opportunity, no exclusivity. So the ability to go work with a lot of different partners and chase a lot of different avenues if I want. And then a ton of time at home, just a chance to be have full autonomy over my schedule. It's the first time in my professional career. I have the ability to work as much as little as I want. And it's great. It is a consuming world. Like the way you describe it is interesting is your volume is your value. There's that, but there's also the other part of that. Since it is the center of the sports media ecosystem, you can almost forget about how much else is out there. Right. Like it is the, in our world, it is the making it, right? Like you are at ESPN, regardless of what the capacity is that you serve in. Now, once you get in there, then you find out those levels, right? There's levels inside whatever it is. But once you get there, there is this feeling of making it that happens. And when you get to a place where you describe where you don't feel fulfilled. And in my time, I don't think while I work there, I ever really got to that place. But I applaud you for being able to look at it and realize like, no, I got to do a little something else because a lot of people for understandable reasons get a little bit like nervous about the idea of walking away from an institution that's so big, especially when you get to a place where you're comfortable and you feel like they'll keep rolling you over. But I imagine that once you got out and for me doing a stuff at HBO, I kind of felt this, you do get into other stuff and be like, oh man, there is actually a whole lot of this business that I had not gotten a hold of. Like you had worked another, I think a bit of a wider range of places than I had at that point. But both of us had never done anything that was on the scale or magnitude of ESPN. Then when you get out to what some of this other stuff is, you're like, oh man, I didn't know this other stuff was here. Like you nailed it 100%. And like, you know, people that don't work there anymore will tell you that. But there is this sort of imposter syndrome part of you that's like, well, maybe, you know, like maybe ESPN is the only one that saw it and like they're, they get me and they understand me, which is why they are giving me all of these things. And like, maybe I don't really have that much like cash, or maybe, maybe like, nobody even knows who I am. And I'm going to have to like start back at the bottom and like, you know, try to pitch myself. And then you get out and you realize that people just weren't reaching out to you because they knew you weren't available, you know, because they knew you couldn't work with them because you had exclusivity. And you get out. And it's like, I've got to be honest. I've had more interesting meetings in the last like months. Since like the news came out that I was leaving than I have in the last, you know, 10 years, with just a lot of different avenues and a lot of different like spaces for creativity. And it's really cool. And feels rewarding that, you know, you can, you can leave. I remember that though, the best thing that happened to me was getting laid off at V103. Like it really, really was because I was having those same feelings of, you know, I know I wanted more. I, you know, I never wanted to, and I just say just, I don't mean it in a disrespectful way. But I never wanted to only be a radio personality. I wanted to be on sport, on television doing sports. Like that was the goal. But I got into it and I was okay at it and they kept giving me jobs. And before you knew it, I was eight years in. And I really load myself to sleep. And, um, and they laid me off in such a surprising way. And it really like, it really changed me at a cellular level. Because I remembered at that point feeling like I would never get another job again. That that was the only opportunity I had that I was going to starve, you know, this scarcity mentality. And, you know, fast forward, I did okay after I got laid off. And I reminded myself then the same thing that I reminded myself when I was leaving and transitioning for me as PN. You know, you take your talent with you and everything that you learned is foundational and fundamental to the next place. But like, you can't be afraid and you'll never know. And I also felt like I have such a great relationship with ESPN that like people have come back to ESPN after they've left. The face of their companies, even they left, right? So, you know, I was hopeful that if we had a really great like, ending that if there was ever a time that I did, you know, decide like, okay, I've looked around. I've seen the landscape and like, it's ESPN for me that there would be an opportunity to go back. But I just, I had to see Bo like it was my first time being a proper free agent. And I just wanted to see. Yeah. Well, let me tell you what else you're going to see. And I think you probably got in a handle on this. And I figured this out on my on my end. They put me in a lot of really great positions and let me do not just really cool stuff, but stuff that was important to them, right? But at the same time, ESPN, they run a system. Okay. Like, they are like one of these teams, whereas like, we got a system. And we'll put you in that system. Every now and then you get some people that get to run their own plays and call it a number, number by and large, they have you and everybody by where you exist in their system, which is a reasonable thing for them to do. They've had a highly successful system, right? Right. But I realized not too long after I got out of there and even in the later parts, I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, they didn't, they didn't really get me at all to be honest. They got me a lot. They got parts of me. But if a place is thinking about how they get you to work in the system that they have, there's only but so much of you that they are even thinking to look at and there's certain things that you may be capable of and that you want to do. But that's not what they're asking of you, right? They're like, they haven't thought of it because that's not something that they think of. And so next thing, you know, you do what you do with a thing with your man, climb in the building, right? Next thing I know I'm doing, calling the show HBO, for example, and things like that. And that is not, again, that is not an indictment of ESPN. But I do know for you, and it's going to be interesting to watch. You're going to have the opportunity to do so many cool things because the people who do cool things, they all watch ESPN. Like that's the other part. All these places and there's zanes of things that you might be able to do. And it's a result of the fact that they watch ESPN and they saw you there, and we're like, hey, you want to get this a try? Yeah, why not? Where's the happen is we do a meeting and it doesn't go good, right? Like, oh, they have lost 30 minutes. Absolutely, you're right. Like a lot of these sort of production companies and things that I've been meeting with, they're like, I'm a big sports fan, you know, I love blah, blah. So you're absolutely right. And I think that's what's so interesting is that like, you go to these like, you know, Hollywood-ish type of events and all of these like famous actors and actors are there. And the sports people are always like the red-headed step children. Please excuse me to all the red-headed listeners. I love you. But like, you know, we're kind of like the black sheep a little bit. It's like, who are you? Like, you know, they don't know who we, and that's fine. Like, why would we, we're not the actual athlete? Like, it's all good. But then you realize that like sports does have reach. ESPN has a ton of reads. That's what I'm saying. That's why I'm so rooted in gratitude. Like, I don't have the opportunities that I have if I didn't have a showcase there. And they did put me on big stuff. But I think to your point, like, you know, people keep asking me like, in fact, they asked me yesterday on the podcast, like, do you want to, what were spaces that you didn't get a chance to work at at ESPN that you wanted to? And I was like, you know, football for sure. You know, it was always sort of an aim to me. It's my favorite sport. I love football. And, and let's me real out ESPN, like, all their most important people are on football. So you got to get on football to be one of their most important people. But the hard part about that is all their most important people are on football. All ready to say it's really hard to break through. And I think that ESPN just has like a ton of talent. And you're right. Like, they have a five people. Yeah, they have a zillion people. And it's not that I don't, you know, you know, rebel competition because I think colleagues that are great and inspirational keep you fine. Like, I work for so many people where I'm like, I've got to be better. Like, I'm going to do a hit with me to come. So, you know what I mean? Like, so all of that is great. But it's just like not in my DNA to go after things that are already occupied. And that's difficult to do it a place like that because everything's occupied. So, you know, I got women's basketball because Maria left, right? So, and I was so grateful to have that opportunity. But it's like, you go to a place like Netflix who, yeah, they don't have the profile yet. But they're building and you get a chance as a broadcaster to again stretch, push yourself, do major events. Like, you know, we just announced the Tyson Fury fight, right? So, like, that's going to be happening in April. And I'll be doing that. I've got baseball coming up. Like, getting a chance to just immerse yourself for these like major events. That's like, that's kind of the dream for me. You know what I mean? As opposed to like committing to 182 days of doing it. It's like, I love baseball. I do. I'm a baseball girl. I grew up playing baseball. But at ESPN, if you wanted to do anything for baseball, you had to do everything for baseball, right? And like, so I think this current sort of like model that Netflix is under is like perfect for me. Because I get to dabble in all of these things that I love without having to like commit to their whole season, you know? You're just donned on me. They gonna make you do something with Jake Paul. Hey, you know, I'm a, I've entered your Jake Paul. He was, he was quite pleasant. He was quite pleasant. He was not. He wasn't pleasant to you. He was pleasant to me. I'll send you some, I'll send you some links. He was a me a clip. It was a, it was a, I feel like I'll have to do was Google it. Yeah, you can't. That's all me and him. It was a, it was a thing, man. I tell you this boy, what's his name? Anthony Joshua, who apparently it was very interesting when that fight was streaming because apparently the, the young ladies of America had not grown, had not heard of Anthony Joshua yet. I'm fine. Yeah. Yeah, they got a hold of them. They saw what time it was. And meanwhile, he had that boy, Joel, Spree Wells. He hit, he hit Jake Paul to broke his jaw. Man, had that thing in slow motion. I was surprised. He ain't choke on his jaw because it wrapped around his neck. It was crazy. Just tugging his ass up. I came with, I was just thinking about that. Have a much money he made for that fight. I don't know if you could show me a video with somebody getting a jaw spun around a face and tell me, okay, you willing to do that for $30 million? I mean, yes and no. I mean, I would probably do it. I think you got a lot more than $30 billion, too. I, listen, I give him credit for that. Like everybody gave him a lot of, for, you know, fighting nobody's and retired dudes and postal workers. Anthony Joshua was like, for real, for real. He knew he had no shot. He knew he was in for a ass woven and like, he took one, but he knew it and he knew he was going to. And so I give him credit, you know. Yeah, you're right. You're the real one. Yeah, I think I really watched that as it happened and I was saying to myself, would you, I ain't just going out there and knowing this about to happen. And like, he had the option to do it. What I probably would have done, which was, why are we belaboring this? Right? Just give me one good one right here. Right in the foe here. Get it over with. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be out there like when you go watch that Michael Mike Tyson, Michael Spanx fight and it is very clear before this gets started. Michael Spanx is like, okay, we ain't got to do this very long. There's just no need for me to like, why, why, why am I getting my ribs broken? Right. Not just my jaw, my ribs. He's like, now we're that. Nah, nah, one, no parts of that. One, no parts of that. So what else you got going? Oh, we got anything coming up? Yeah, I mean, I'm heading out to the Super Bowl next week. Like, I'm now on my, you know, now that I have all this time on my hands. By the way, I'm telling you that all these dudes are like, I'm going here to hang out with this tribe and like, you know, go add a water filtration system to an orphanage and wherever. They're like, what about you? Well, I'm like, um, I'm going to go make these grilled cheese sandwiches. I'm going to be, I'm going to be a fun max on Saturday. I had a birthday party. But no, I'm, I've got like, I'm doing a lot of, you know, hosting brunches. I'm a lady who brunches now. So I've got a brunch that I'm hosting a sports power brunch. Oh, you're doing the power brunch? Yeah. I crashed the power brunch one. Did you? I heard it's a great event. It is a great event. I have an amazing story. I'll tell you about that later. But yeah, I just, somebody told me Jasmine was like, Hey, I had this brunch while you pull up. I said, okay, I didn't know it was such a big deal. So I show up in a hoodie and sweats. I'm wrinkled as I tend to be and I just show up. And I'm like, oh, this is a big thing. I would just take the back. Oops. Yeah, I mean, but not look. If you act like you supposed to be there. So will everybody else 100%. They'll be like, he must, he must be a basketball player. No, no, no, no. What's that got a little closer? I was bobandy Jones. Oh, there it is. Like, what's that happened? It was just like, oh, okay. Here, I'm here as myself. Yeah, nobody's going to come up and be like, sir, you have to leave now. Never. Absolutely not, especially not at that event. Plus, I, I got a law track record of crashing events. Like, I was just thinking about the other day with me and my homie James. This is now almost 25 years ago, when we stuck into back door in California. We saw a Bishop Dime Magic Wands Cadillac in a parking garage. And so my man followed him and he got, he, then he calls me because it's a long story, but he calls me and he's like, this is a laundry fashion show. Okay. So I'm waiting on a tow truck to come because I had left my car door, but left the lights on and so my battery was out. So I needed them to come turn it. Also, I was like, cool, just once they came, started the car, let it run, get it back up. We rolled up in that piece and it was a laundry, ray fashion show with Bishop. And like two of them on each arm, right? I'm wearing a Gap Hoodie, some khaki cargo pants and speed up tilms. I'm 22 years old. And I'm just like, but we hear it now, because it's LA. I could have been anybody. And don't tell him who I was. Just pulled it up. Oh my goodness. Was there a Pimp Cup? Of course. Okay. Oh, wow. I love Sneaking. How did you break it? How did you sneak in? He somehow found a back door. Wow. He saw somebody like come out the back door and then he got in the back door and then I was like, all right, I'm on the way and he pulled up. And I like, that's the part I don't quite remember. But like, and he was 18. Like we have no, I love being in a room that I have no business being in. That's what that's a great feeling with that. See, this is the difference in our and our upbringing. Because like when you mentioned like breaking into stuff, I'm like, oh me and my friends used to do the back door thing at the movie theater. You get like, you know, the direct. And like the movie theaters have the direct access outside, right? Oh, you go buy one ticket and then you just open that door and you let your six friends in it. So you're amazing. Did you do that as well? Oh, yeah, I got a long, you know, my mama listened to this. So she's got to. Oh, gosh. She could. No, no, no, she can learn retroactively about a few things. But no, I've figured out. I've told many times over the years about the time that we stuck into the Super Bowl at the George Doe. How did you sneak into a Super Bowl? Now that's like oceans 11. I was this close. I was this close and I will tell people this before we roll out because this is one of my favorite stories ever. So I was with my homey Lurch. And the thing you got to understand about Lurch was Lurch's email address was klepto. Died, died, died at Yahoo.com. And he lived that he lived that life. That's what that's what he was proudly stealing shit. Yeah, yeah. And looking back on it, he probably had a disorder. But like it was amazing how natural. You're right for help. Like stealing and bag door stuff was right. But he was in the band at Clark. And the band had an arrangement that they would volunteer for events at the George Doe. So every Falcons game, if you were in the band, you could go say you were volunteering, you do some work there and you got to go to the Falcons. But also they were able to do it for the SEC championship game. So this was the year the Titans and the Rams played in the Super Bowl. And we decided to give it a try. My man gave me a band T-shirt so I could act like I was in the band. And we was about to go see if the band volunteer and thing goes. That thing is, man, you know, I'm a bit of a square. And disregard, I do generally what I'm supposed to do. You know, I enjoy a little mischief. But you know, my game isn't just I'm not lurched. And you'll understand what I mean when I say that we go and I'm waiting in line and we about to figure out this volunteer thing. And he goes to the front of the line. I forget what happens. And then he comes back and is like, no, we're in the wrong line. We need to go to the other line. I'm like, all right, cool. So we go, we in the other line. I'm waiting with him. He goes to the front and he's doing something like this. And I don't understand what's going on. And he comes back to me and he goes, Charles Greer. I'm like, what? He's like, Charles Greer, John Wilson. Like, what are you talking about? And so he's ahead of me and they're like, what is your name, sir? He goes, John Wilson. And they look on the page and he's like, oh, John Wilson, here we go. Hit it with a highlighter and they gave him a bunch of stuff like the costume that you wear to be a vendor, right? So they gave him his costume. So they come to me and then I, what's your name? I say, Charles Greene. And they look on the list and they're like, I don't see Charles Greene. And I look and I see what happened. I got the name wrong. I say, no, it's Charles Greer. Greer. And they go, oh, okay. And she looks and she goes, oh, Charles Greer. She hits it with the highlighter. She has to be the stuff. And it's all in pop and man. We take a couple of steps. Next thing I know, some big dude with a blazer on and a key ring around his belt. He's stopping put his hand on my chest. And he says to me, wait a minute. What's your name? I said, Charles Greer. He goes, you're not Charles Greer. Wow. Now the problem, of course, is I am not Charles Greer. He was correct. He had that with all the buddy. And since I did not leave my house, planning to tell lies. And we were just cooking up this play it along the way. I didn't have a backup. All I knew is that when he got on that walkie, it was time for me to walkie. You understand what I'm saying? You got to run. Yeah, yeah, I got to get out of here. Like I wasn't going to run because right now it's going to be too much. But I needed to have a here hold the stuff. I'm out of here. Like, like, this is a fun story if I don't go to jail. So I walk it and my man because he is who he is. It's like, no, no, no, we can go around this way. I'm like, man, I'm going home. Right, I'm done. What are you talking about? Like I gave it the old college try. And I was this close though. This close. So you left after that, right? Oh, yeah. Okay, I was going to say no one scared you. Tip fate once. Like you don't do it twice. Your friend sounds like your friend currently incarcerated. Nobody. It could have been. Okay, I was going to say my check. He was preaching. Oh, so not okay. So got it. All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, it was when the Venn diagram there's a yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, no, it was a dicey. It was a dicey situation. At that point, I was just kind of like, nah, nah, nah, this was so scary. You chose he chose the one name where the guy was like, no, I know Charles Greer. Yeah, exactly. He hit him. Exactly. So, but this is the thing, right? This deal is from New Jersey. It's a different situation to aid when your parents actually live in the city like mind do, right? Did. And number two, and this is very important. Out of my friends, I was the one that had money. Like if I needed to get to pass, they had to get me out of jail. The friends are not going to be able to help me. Get out of here. The girlfriend, perhaps could probably would not. And we're not called in Mac and Barbara about this. At all. You're not. This, there's, there's, there's, there's, like, this is, compared to some of the things my brother did, this is low on the list. But we're still not doing that. So I, I ran all that math and I was like, how about we just go home? Yeah, feels good to me. I like to say, that's the prudent decision. And that's why you are where you are. And while he's preaching. Then there we go. There we go. That is L Duncan who, by the way, got out of ESPN and is staying in Connecticut. Shout out to you, Omar. Shout out to you. My favorite, my favorite line you've ever told me about Omar is, I moved to Boston for you. You can never say anything else with the black man. Say I moved to Boston for you. He's like, what, what else do you need for me to show you my love? A black man moved willingly to Boston in the winter. In the winter. Real love. That's right. That's the truest love of all time. 100% enduring. All right. I love L Duncan. Check her out at Netflix. And for ever else, she's about to be congratulations. I was telling you, you are literally our favorite guest to have here. So we are so glad that you can come and continue to talk to us. And now you got a little bit more free time on your hands. I've got a lot more time now, Bo. So when you hit me up, you know, there's a, there's a greater than good chance. I will have the time to jump on. I have your four. No, I love you. You know, you tell them, Bo, who hit who up about coming on? I'll hit me up. Let me tell you. Let me help me up. I told Ryan that Elle hit me up in the beam that Ryan had on his face. People like see she loves us too. I know. I love you guys. Because I've been trying not to press you because you know, you have lots to do. You got family. You got all those things. But I told you, we will have you all here twice a week. It would be good. Like, no, but the people are never happier to have anybody on. Then they are when they know that you are on. And I'm also curious to see after you've done all that ESPN volume, and you've done this, you start off with all the plans of all the things that you're going to do, but you may wind up like me who I did decided I'm taking two years off of doing anything that I did not have to do. Like I'm just coming back around. I remember. Yeah, it's really nice. I mean, it is, I just, I mean, I'm looking forward and reveling in like what it feels like maybe to be bored or like, you know, look, I, it's just a feeling that I haven't in a really long time. So, you know, this is just going to be a period of like sort of growth for me. And I'm excited to just like see what it looks like. Hey, man, bring the kids to New York too. I had never got to meet the second one. I know you've never met Xander, the pinky and the brain. I will bring them. Yes. Because I've got time. I got time. You know what I'm saying? Just let me know. We will be here. Oh, yeah. All right, ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here on the right time. We do this four times a week. Ryan Brumblyhand and everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Hit the voicemail line. 3, 2, 3, 5, 9, 6, 7, 7, 6, 7. Remember, follow the right time. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. We'll talk to you guys in a couple of days. Take it easy.