Recho Omondi on Building The Cutting Room Floor, Outsmarting the Algorithm & Not Shortchanging Yourself

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to She's So Lucky. So in today's episode, we're going to talk a little bit more about fashion than I usually do, which honestly, I feel like I don't really talk about fashion at all. So I'm excited to get into a little bit more. But before we get into that, it felt like a perfect time to shout out today's sponsor, Newly because if I'm wearing anything cute, you can bet it's probably rented from Newly, including my dress today and including everything that I'm going to wear all summer long. So make sure you check out the description, use my code for Newly and get some cute clothes to rent all summer. Rachel, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. It's so fun. I am so excited to have you because I've actually wanted to have you on the show for a while. And I feel like the timing of this is all working out really beautifully. So I'm excited to have you here. Me too. This is fab. I love the setup. This is so gorgeous. I know. This is like our newer studio, which we're pretty new to being in this space, but it's feeling like a really cute little home for us here. So at She's So Lucky, we obviously talk about creating our own luck. And when I think about somebody who has created their own luck, you are absolutely someone who comes to mind because I feel like you have created this really beautiful space for yourself at the intersection of fashion and media. And I want to, being the nosy person that I am, really dig into that. Yeah, let's do it. And understand more about you creating your own luck. And as someone who consumes your work, the top two qualities that come to mind for me is I think about your creativity and I think about your curiosity. And I would love to start with figuring out where those qualities came from. Creativity and curiosity. I feel like you're born with both of them, I think, right? Like creativity, I think I always had that in me. It took me probably a little while to cultivate it though, or to even recognize that that was a thing. You know, I had always seen creativity as an elective choice. I never saw it as a career choice. And that is not, you know, dissimilar from a lot of other immigrant children. so that part I think took a little bit a little bit to harness but the curiosity part I think I was always curious I was just nosy and like I was also the youngest and so I feel like part of that came from wanting to be taken seriously or wanting to be have something explained to me in more color so I was always just like well what do you mean what do you mean what do you mean where are we going and what how does that work how does that happen so I don't know but I've always been really fascinated by understanding like how the sausage gets made and how things work and always asking for more clarity than probably some people are patient enough to give me. Back to the creativity piece. You said that you tapped into that a little bit later. Was there a specific event that helped you tapped into that? Or what was the moment where you started leaning into creativity? Well, I mean, I think I grew up really encouraged by the arts. So like, you know, I was raised by a single father. He always wanted us to be, you know, cultured, well-read, well-educated. So like growing up in my household, we read a lot of books. I think any kid of the 90s, like reading was such a part of the culture. Read a lot of books. We weren't allowed to watch TV really, except for like on the weekends or, you know, holidays maybe. Listened to a lot of musicals, traveled quite a bit, played instruments, played just a lot of music in general. Museums and learning also as a hobby was, Again, I think that's very like 90s kid culture, but in general, like for sure in our household. So I don't know. I feel like all of those things pointed to, if not creative yet, a cultured background. I grew up dancing. And so that was a big part of my life being like on stage and I did a competitive dance and also just like ballet and tap and jazz and all the things. And so that costuming was a big part of that life and doing fittings and makeup and hair and glam and I had a big imagination. I read a lot more fiction than I do now. When I was younger, obviously, I was very into like imaginative storytelling. So all of that stuff was like obviously very left a very big impression on me. But it always felt like an elective. It always felt like something that you get to do after your homework or after dinner or after the more important things. So I went to school for pre-med and my dad was a doctor. I was kind of following in his footsteps and not because he was pressuring me, just because you kind of tend to do what you know. I spent a lot of time like in and around hospitals growing up because, again, my dad was a single father. But I don't think I thought too much about it. And I was a good student. Like growing up, I was pretty good. So I probably could have done it if I had applied myself and really focused on it. But I knew quite early on that it wasn't where, and this sounds so cliche, but it wasn't where my passion lied. And I knew at that point, which would be around 17, 18, that I was very like passion driven, I think. Like, so by the time I ended up going to art school, because I transferred to art school around maybe, I think I did two years of school. So I would have been probably 19 or maybe turning 20 at the point that I was like, if I took the amount of rigor and application that I apply towards what I'm doing now, what would that look like if I applied that towards a creative field? So I didn't really know what the end result was going to be, but I did know that I like had drive and a work ethic. Yeah. That you're somebody who it's best applied when you really care about what you're doing. I think so. Yeah. And also just like, I felt like I was good at it. I think there's a general, you know, I didn't have a lot of language for this stuff that I learned later, but whether it was like, you know, taste or composition or color theory, this wasn't a part of my lexicon at the time. Like I didn't know that you could be good or bad at those things particularly, but I started to realize like I have a perspective on things that in my small town, no one had a perspective on. So I felt creative or curious, which I think they are linked at that time. But then once I went to art school, meeting so many other people who were like me really broadened like my eyes and my point of view and sharpened it really at the end of the day. That's when you were like, okay, I'm applying this somewhere where it feels like it has more of a natural flow. Yeah. And also like you kind of go from being a, I was kind of like a big fish in a small pond before, you know, cause I might've been, and when I say creative, I just mean like I went to university of Illinois, very typical, all American big 10 school. Sports was a big part of the culture. Greek life was a big part of the culture. I wasn't really into either of those things. So I was the girl who was like wearing a beret to the bar and like, you know, into fashion and like music and things that were like not on the top 100 and not on the top 40. And that was the beginning of like really internet culture and the way where you could find little subgroups of things that you were interested in. So like I was the person that was like, yes, well-adjusted in school and fairly popular and like, you know, had friends, but also had this other side of me that was interested in like really dorky, nerdy things that was not, you know, I say this, you know, it's now like kind of being online as like part of popular everyday culture, but it wasn't that at the time. It wasn't 20 years ago. So you were kind of a nerd if you were like running home to get on your computer after school. When I got to art school, you're a small fish in a big pond. Everyone is as talented as you, if not more. Everyone was a creative kid in their town. And some of these kids aren't even from small towns. Some of them are from big cities. And so they had just so much more access and exposure to things that are things that I could have only dreamed about. So then by the time I got there, it did create this little bit of hustle in me where I was like, OK, actually, now I want to compete and be good at it, you know, that sense of, of like motivation. Yeah. Yeah. And why fashion design? Why fashion design? Because it was just the language that I knew, right? Like I said, I grew up dancing. I was in a lot of fittings. I knew the concept of needle and thread because you have to sew your elastics onto your shoes or sew your, you know, ribbons onto your pointe shoes. I knew that world. And it was just the point of, it was the thing that I had the most point of view on, I remember being very young and this is not dissimilar again to anybody who works in fashion for the most part. When you're really young and you have very strong opinions about things very early, like I remember knowing or feeling really strongly that like this is lavender and this is a deep purple or like knowing different shades of colors, like even having those like 64 pack of crayons and knowing that like I needed the yellow green and I needed the regular green and I needed the blue green and they were all very different colors and they were, it was very important to me. Like those little things that end up being seeds to who you'll be as an adult. I look back and I'm like, oh yeah, this was a girl who had a really strong opinion about these things. But clothing, I don't know. I always had a sense of style. I noticed style on other people. Again, I didn't know the word was style, but I would like, you know, meet a teacher and her like dress was interesting to me or the way she styled her jewelry was interesting to me or like the way she would pair things. I just remember being very cutely aware to like that as an expression. and for myself too, like not wanting to wear things that I felt uncomfortable in. It was like a very important part of expressing myself as I was, when I was young. Do you feel like taste is something that's innate or can it be learned? I think it's both. I do, especially now that I've spent so much time around this world that I'm in. I think some part of it's innate, but I do think it can be cultivated because after, when you start to study some things, you start to realize it's not, there is actually like a logic to it. And I think if you spend the time studying it, you'll start to have that eye for it. I mean, my eye got sharper when I went to art school. So I might've had like a general taste, but my taste was very like basic Midwestern indie black girl, you know, kind of punky, like listening to Fifi Dobson. It wasn't that sophisticated, but I knew I was like alt in a way. And so I know that from me being able to sharpen my own eye that I do think it's both. It might be a foundation, but you can study it and you can get better and learn about like, what things make sense and what things don't make sense. And if they don't make sense, you're putting those things together intentionally for the irony or whatever, just making sure like everything feels cohesive. I think you can study that. Yeah. Yeah. It almost makes me think about the idea of we all like what we like, but I think the next level is understanding why you like what you like and the different things that are all connected within that. Yeah. And it gets competitive. Like imagine once you, you think you're a hotshot where you're from or whatever. But then you go and meet everybody who has all the same references as you, who knows all the same albums as you, who has a better eye or a sharper hand or a unique or a point of view was that that was a thing in school. You wanted to be, I mean, as any creative person, you want to develop a point of view. You don't want to just copy the people that you admire. Because I spent a lot of my early years just copying designers that I liked and it wasn't really my point of view. So yeah, you start to really be like, how can I make this mine versus how can I be derivative of something that already exists. Yeah. And how is this something that can reflect me? Yeah. As opposed to just, and I think with the copying thing, part of that is how you learn that piece of experimentation and trying things and taking bits and pieces, like everybody's inspired by everybody, but then figuring out what that says about you. Yeah. That's the critical part. Yeah. It's like figuring out what's yours versus what is like everyone else's. I think a lot of people don't want to do that extra work. Because it can be hard. Like there's no clear cut answer and there's no one way to get there. No. It requires living. Living and also like deep internal analysis. Yeah, because again, nobody is like you and everybody has unique experiences. And even if you have shared experiences with a demographic of people, like I am a quintessential daughter of an immigrant African family who grew up in the Midwest and grew up in like a lot of white and suburban towns. That's not unique to me. There's a million other black girls who've lived that exact same experience. So once you're in a certain subset, How do you go even deeper and create something that's even more unique, right? So I don't think on the top layer, I don't think any of us are really that different. But I think once you keep going and you keep going, how do you find something that's yours? I think that's the work and it is actually work. It's not something that I think just comes to you in a dream. Maybe for some people it is. That's not been the situation for me. It's required actually doing that, like excavating. Yeah, something that you dive into. Yeah. Yeah. So you know that feeling when you've got a wedding, a birthday party, and a work thing all in the same month and suddenly you realize you have nothing to wear. You could drop hundreds of dollars on new outfits for every single event or you could rent everything you need from Nuuly for $98. Nuuly is a subscription clothing rental service and every month you pick any six styles you want. Dresses for the fancy stuff, everyday basics, whatever your month actually looks like. You get access to thousands of styles from hundreds of brands like Free People, Reformation, Anthropologie. I mean, so many of our faves. Plus inclusive sizing with plus petite, tall, and maternity options. You also get fast and free shipping and returns, and they even handle the dry cleaning and the laundry for you. And if you fall in love with something, you can buy it at a serious discount instead of sending it back, which is actually what I did with the green dress that I'm wearing today. I rented it multiple times in my newly. And finally, I said, okay, I need to just go on ahead and buy this dress because I love it so much. There's no late fees. There's no damage fees, no fee to pause or cancel. So if you spill something, you just need a break for a month, it's genuinely no big deal. Nuuly is a great value at $98 a month for any six styles, but right now you can get $28 off your first month when you sign up with the code lucky. Just go to nuuly.com and enter the code lucky at sign up to get $28 off your first month. That's nuuly.com, Nuuly with two U's and use the code lucky for $28 off your first month. Newly subscription clothing rental. Change your clothes. Starting a business is a big deal, but Shopify makes it so much simpler with all the tools you need to launch already there from day one. If you've got a brand in your head that you've been sitting on, Shopify's templates and AI tools get you a stunning site up fast, no coding required. And Shopify checkout means more of your customers actually complete the purchase and returning customers can check out in a single click. If you ever get stuck, Shopify's built-in AI assistant sidekick is right there to help you build, troubleshoot, and keep moving. And it's wild to think you'd be building on the same platforms as brands like Mattel and Gymshark. So you're in really great company from day one. All you need is the idea and Shopify handles the rest. Start your free trial at shopify.com slash lucky. Again, And you can start your free trial at shopify.com slash lucky. That's shopify.com slash lucky. I want to start talking to you about business, your first business, having your own fashion label and the process of that and the evolution that you've had as an entrepreneur starting in fashion, now moving to media. I'd love to first hear about your experiences having a fashion label. some of the lessons that that taught you that you apply to what you're doing now. Oh my God, it was such a different business. Like the fashion business in general is a really, it's a hard business, especially now, because, you know, on the one hand, it's very capital intensive. It's a lot of inventory. It's asset heavy. You have to hold on and buy a lot of, you know, machinery, inventory, whatever. So, and then you also have to like move quickly. And if you don't have a systems and teams to do that, it's just a hard business. And it's certainly a hard business for an independent creator. So I've definitely made a lot of mistakes with that business. I mean, I did exactly what they tell you not to do, which is like, don't start your own brand fresh out of school. But I was like, I really only had like a couple of brands that I wanted to work for fresh out of school. And my thinking was like, either I get hired there or I don't really, you know, or I start my own thing, which is crazy because I was so young and I really didn't know anything. But I also think that's really true to me. And I did learn a lot and I wasted a lot of money. And I but then there were pros. I feel like I did establish kind of a sensibility and a visual taste level within like the New York City design community. And this was years ago. So I feel like that kind of helped me make certain relationships that I have now. But business wise, I wouldn't even say that it was like a real business in a lot of ways I also think to back up here I also think that I did have this embroidery business that was running concurrently as a ready to wear business was actually more lucrative than the ready business Then we started developing merch that ended up being more lucrative than the ready business. What I also didn't know at the time is that I'm an entrepreneur. And I think, I don't even like that word, honestly. I hate that word. Ooh, why? Because it's just like, what does that mean? Yeah. You feel like it's gotten kind of watered down? It's just, I just feel like it's, it doesn't mean anything today anymore. I mean, it's like, how many people do we know that's like the CEO and founder of nothing? Do you know what I mean? It's like, it just kind of feels like a self-important title in a way. But if you go back to the kind of traditional French term and the word and what it means, I did not know that I was an entrepreneur. And that's not to say that I'm like a millionaire and the most successful one. But what for me, what it means is I needed to be working for myself. I did not know that. I wasn't a great employee for other people. I got fired from jobs and not because I wasn't competent. I got good grades in school. I knew that I was smart, but there was this other thing that I'm like, why is it not working out at me at other places? And in hindsight, I know why. So anyway, I digress. But like I realized over time that like I should be working for myself. And I also think when you're kind of a serial entrepreneur, you're just going to continue to try different things until something sticks. I think that's a very specific mindset. I think it's a very specific type of person who can endure that. So this kind of goes back to what I was saying. People romanticize the idea of being an entrepreneur, but very few people actually have the level of grit and determination and patience that it takes to actually find something that works. Because I've kissed a lot of frogs, like in business as an entrepreneur, like you wouldn't even have called it a business. It was almost like a passion project that I was still iterating on, if that makes sense. Oh yeah. I've referred to many things I've tried as expensive hobbies. Totally. Because that is what they have been. Yeah, exactly. Expensive financially, expensive energetically, mentally. did you have a moment where you were like, okay, now I'm in business? I feel like my podcast is the first time I've ever been in business. Well, I mean, it depends on what you mean. Like, was it generating money? Yes. Was it generating profit? Yes. Not the podcast, but like my clothing brand before, but it wasn't actually, I don't even know that we'll see. I also see them as like different businesses in a way because or revenue streams rather. So like the ready to wear brand never really, maybe we broke even, but we did actually make money off of these smaller product categories that were not my passion and to me kind of felt lowbrow, but they were making money. We had this like accidental embroidery business, which if you know, you know, if you're an OG, you know, follower of the brand, you remember this, but that ended up being a B2B business where originally we were making these embroidered, hand embroidered shirts for friends and editors and things like that. But then it became a B2B business because these other bigger companies were ordering them as swag or whatever gifts for their employees or a wrap party or whatever. So we ended up doing these larger quantities for companies like Spotify or Instagram or Bumble or, you know, a production company that was having wrap parties. Like I said, people didn't know about that, but like that's what was generating the most revenue. Anyway, I digress. That was not the question, but I just say all that to say that like, and then I closed that business, you know, so there's just been a lot of like little things that I've done to just keep the lights on, but it wasn't because I had ever had a business plan. Yeah. You know what I mean? I feel like business can be so formulaic today and I never followed any of that. Yeah, I think that's also a good example that sometimes the things that do keep the lights on or that might be more lucrative are often the kind of unsexy things. Yeah, always. Under the radar, unsexy things are the things sometimes that can like drive the most revenue, if that's how you're defining a business. Totally. But anyway, so I would say that the podcast, my show, The Cutting Room Floor, is probably the first time that I've truly been in business, I would say. So let's talk about The Cutting Room Floor, which you started in 2018. So you were early in the podcast wave. I started in 2018 too. So I feel like all of us who started pre-COVID when podcasting at its core was truly about conversation, it's just been such a different experience and we've seen so much change in the space. Did you listen to serial radio? No. Oh, really? Okay. I always think of people who started around the same time that we did if they were interested in serial because that was what got me into it. That was what got a lot of people into it. I started listening to podcasts when I was listening to self-help stuff in 2013. That was like, well, I was very deep into like wellness, personal development. That was like my segue. Interesting. So you were into like storytelling. Because there was a lot of storytelling podcasts, like true crime and this and that. Okay. I feel like if anyone who started in 2017, 18, et cetera, I always think like we were the children of serial radio because like that was like the next cohort of people who got into the medium. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, yeah, I definitely remember that time for sure. And I feel like that was pre-COVID. It was like that was the first wave of what got people really interested in listening to shows for sure. So you've been podcasting for a long time too then. So you get it. Girl, yeah. Yeah, you get it. Yeah. We'll see, girl. We'll see. I want to also come back to the cutting room floor and the beginning of it. And I'm curious from your perspective in terms of your vision for it, how it has changed from when you first started it to now. I mean, the vision is still pretty much on track. It's just more that there's so much more we want to do that we haven't really done yet. Yeah. But I mean, the premise of the show was a fashion podcast, a fashion show, essentially. And how deep do you want to go? Let's go deep. All in. the slogan at the time, I mean, it still is a slogan, especially for people who've been listening for a really long time, but it was fashion's only fashion show. And I named it that because there were no other fashion podcasts at the time. In fact, this medium didn't make sense to anybody. Now you'll obviously see that like most, you know, fashion media entities have a podcast, but I really started it right as blogs were dying out and really blogs had kind of already been dead. To be honest, it was more that Instagram was starting to become the biggest thing. The bloggers had kind of seamlessly transitioned into influencers. Print was obviously still circling the drain. And again, I had discovered Serial and I was so captivated by this idea of like audio storytelling. This is before video podcast became a thing, which I'm sure you remember. And I was kind of in between this like rock and a hard place because while podcasting people who were a lot of them were ex-radio, came from NPR or iHeart or Sirius or whatever, they understood podcasting. podcasting, you know, the people at Gimlet, whatever. They didn't understand the fashion part. So when I would say like, oh, it's a fashion podcast, they're like, I don't understand. Shouldn't that be visual? How would that work? Like, what do you mean? So the culture part, they were really missing. The fashion people understood fashion, but they didn't understand podcasting because in terms of media, they were just moving a bit slower. So I was like, how do I get these two people to understand that this is the thing that we should be doing? And so that took a bit of time. And when I started podcasting, I really couldn't get anybody. You know, the big question was around how do you monetize this? I certainly believed in the content that I was putting out that I felt very strongly convicted about, even though it was very low fi, it was very low budget. I'd spent like $300 on recording equipment, three, $400 from B&H and like taught myself how to record an MP3. That felt like such a big challenge at the time. But on either side of the aisle, I knew that either party didn't understand the missing component to what would make this work well. And so I just did it on my own and I didn't know how to monetize it. I mean, that was a big conversation in podcasting in general. I mean, this is like when I started podcasting, this was kind of like, there was like an arms race between Apple and Spotify and who's going to take it. And it ended up kind of being Spotify and they invested the most in it. And that makes sense because at the end of the day, Apple sells hardware, but instead of software, but I didn't know how to monetize it. And I also wasn't that concerned in the beginning, Those first three years I was doing it for free. I was putting it out anywhere you would get your podcast. So yeah, I mean, I knew making money off of it would be cool, could be cool. It wasn't the number one priority in the beginning. There was interest in it quite early because we did have sponsorships because we had like this little events business where we would like go to different locations and do a live episode. That was, I guess you could say a moneymaker, but the actual like weekly episodes were not making any money. Like there was no ads being run against it is what I mean. Yeah. So I was just making it for fun for those first three years. Yeah. And then three years in, you decided to put it. And then, yeah, three years and I decided to put it on Patreon. Yeah. Which I didn't really know what Patreon was at the time. I had heard about it from somebody who like worked in fintech and they were like, have you heard of this thing? And then I was like, I don't know what that is. And I thought it was maybe like a GoFundMe Kickstarter. Like I didn't know what it was. But I ended up getting on there because my logic was if even half of the people that were listening to the show when I was putting it out wide would follow me, then there would be some revenue. Yeah. So my thinking was like, I still need to make money off of this because I know what I'm making is good. And I know that I'm uniquely qualified to do it because this industry is so gatecapped in a lot of ways and it's still very relationship-based. And there's a lot of really interesting stories. I mean, this industry is very fascinating to me. So I felt like I know a certain level of information or better yet, I have access to the people who have the stories to tell. And so that's how it started. And I just built my audience on Patreon ever since then, which would have been 2021. So like five years ago. Yeah, which I feel like was still quite early in terms of like the listener or community supported types of media. I think it's gotten really popular over the past couple of years, especially with Substack and so many people kind of monetizing their writing or the things that they put behind paywalls there. But at the time, that was still relatively early to have something like that that was the show, not a bonus. Because I think that's how I'd seen a lot of people use it was like subscribe to our Patreon for an extra episode or ad free content or it was seen as a plus. But to put the whole thing there at that time was like a really bold move. Totally. Because I really didn't have it's like audacity before you have the reason to like have that audacity. I didn't have a huge audience, first of all. The other thing is like culturally, my industry is on Substack, you know, so not only was it early to Patreon, but I was also early to like multimedia in that way. Like now they have introduced some of that stuff, but Substack was for writers at the end of the day. And that's why I think a lot of fashion writers or any kind of journalist congregated over there. But I had this prediction that journalists in the traditional written sense would need to become broadcast journalists eventually. And as you can see, that is what most of them are doing. They are all on camera now. And so I had that sensibility early. I knew that podcasting was the way I wanted to go because I never really had an inclination to write. That wasn't my thing. I can write. I do have a huge respect for it. I love reading and therefore love writers, but it wasn't my medium of choice. I'm like a yapper. I can talk all day long. I can get my thoughts out better. Yeah. I'm a voice note person more than a text person. Like I just know how to talk. So I was always attracted to podcasting and fashion media still and going on to this, you know, brand new platform that people didn't really know about and then asking people to pay for content, which was, again, a new concept at the time and saying that you can't get this anywhere else. like the exclusivity thing that I had already felt very convicted about, which is now something that has paid off. But you're right. Most people that were on Patreon then, but especially now, used it as either bonus content or early access. And I didn't feel like that was a strong enough value proposition. And the reason being is because I know how I am as a consumer. And if you tell me to wait three days and it'll become available for free, I'm waiting the three days. Right? Aren't you. Like, I'm like, early access is not enough for me to want to pay for something. So I didn't think, and I thought if my audience thinks like how I do, they're not going to pay for it. They're just going to wait till I make it free. So there were just a couple little things about how I chose to use Patreon different than how people typically were using it. And I also think, I'll add this on, is that for a lot of people that are on Patreon now, not everybody, but as some of the early adopters of it were like YouTubers who already had a big audience elsewhere. And then we're using Patreon as like you said, bonus supplementary content. And for me, I'm native to the platform. Essentially, I had no audience anywhere else that was bigger that I brought into Patreon. It didn't really work like that. I built brick by brick on that platform for the last five years. And I think that's the one like big difference is that I wasn't like a YouTube star who came over there. It was like, no, I'm starting here. Yeah. Trying to get your people from another platform over there. Yeah. Just using social media as a marketing vehicle to bring people back to Patreon. Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's something that I really admire because I even think I'm like, I don't know if I could get my audience to pay for to pay me for content in any capacity. People talk about this a lot and I have a lot of thoughts on this. Yeah. I think it's like anything else in the world of business. It's product market fit and it's a value proposition at the end of the day. and one thing that I believed in really early on was that people didn't like me. I didn't ever believe that people would like me enough to continue to pay. The product was never me per se and I'm coming off of, you have to remember, coming off the heels of influencer culture which is a lot of it was just like, look at me, look at me, my cute dress, my cute this, my cute, I'm just a cute girl and that's fine but I always felt that there had to be something that the audience could glean from what I was saying. So there had to be some form of utility in the show And that's why I was so adamant about infusing education or teachings and not from a sense of a teacher, but from the sense that I'm going to have somebody come on the show that you can learn something from. And that way, on the days that you don't like me or on the days that you're not interested in what I'm wearing, whatever, that it could be useful to somebody. For sure. So the value proposition had to matter. It was like, what will you get for paying for this? And is it a good value proposition? I think we have a really good value proposition because the price isn't that high. It's like right now it's $6.50 a month to get two episodes a month, but the two episodes are done really well and really well researched. And we're not inundating your inbox with like a new email or a newsletter or whatever, because I don't like that. So I think about it a lot through a lot through the lens of how I behave as a consumer. Yeah. And I think paying for content is a tricky, it's a tricky proposition in a time where people are now having subscription fatigue. Yeah. Because we're being asked to pay for everything. So I don't think it's not that people would pay for content. I just think they have to have that offering of value. It's really more that and that they're not getting it somewhere else or whatever. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It's also really interesting that piece that you said about the ways that you like to consume content. So I feel like that's been my biggest challenge is like the ways that I like to consume content, what I think is interesting, what I'm interested in creating is not at all how my audience consumes and what they want. And I'm constantly like in friction with that and figuring out like where to go from there. But then if they're your audience, aren't they by nature interested in the way you're doing it? Yes and no. Elements of it. I ended up in a really weird spot where I'm kind of halfway between influencer culture and not. So it's like, I think people would love for me to lean more into influencer culture, which I have like a foot in because that was my background. but I'm trying to lean out of it. Into what? Like entrepreneurship? Yeah, more so just this, but like not successfully. Well, yet maybe, but still could be. You know, yeah. So I just think it's interesting just the different ways that, you know, people build things. That's a tricky one because sometimes the influencer route can be such low hanging fruit and it's so easy and the bag is right there. And all you have to do is do this thing or post this thing or say this thing. And like, and if you're trying to be really intentional, about what you want to be known for, it is hard to turn that down so that you can pursue like your greater vision. Yes. So I do get that. Yes. Because even me, there's sometimes where I'm like, you know how much money I would be making if I was just posting, like I have the following for, I have the numbers. Like if I was just giving you outfits of the day and tagging the brands, I would be right. You know, but I just, I don't do it. Yeah, for sure. For sure. You know that feeling when you leave a doctor's appointment and they basically just tell you you fine maybe drink more water see you next year no real data no plan just vibes I had that experience many times and it left me feeling like I was guessing about what was going on in my own body. Superpower is different. It's one simple lab test that gives you insight into over 100 biomarkers. So you can compare that to your annual physical, which checks maybe 10 to 15. This gives you a real detailed picture across 17 core systems, including your heart, your metabolism, your thyroid, inflammation, and even environmental toxins. And once you have that information, you actually have control. You can catch things early, you can fix that brain fog that's been bothering you, or take your gym performance to the next level. Superpower builds you a personalized health protocol based on your results, and it factors in your past history and your family history too. things like hereditary cancer risks, and you can even get your biological age. And it's not a one-time snapshot. It actually tracks your results over your lifetime so you can actually see your progress. It's proactive healthcare made accessible and is some of the best care I've experienced at a price that actually makes sense. Take control of your health with Superpower. For a limited time, our listeners get $20 off to unlock their new health intelligence. Head to superpower.com and use the code lucky for $20 off your $199 superpower membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about superpowers. So make sure you tell them she's so lucky sent you to support the show. Support for today's episode comes from Square and they've got big news. During Square's biannual releases event, they just launched a wave of new tools to help local businesses run faster, smarter, and more profitably. From AI that answers your toughest business questions to tech that simplifies orders and tracks every dollar, it's all live now and it's built for businesses just like the ones you probably support every week. I actually noticed this myself recently. I stepped into a little cafe in my neighborhood and the whole checkout process was so fast. I got a text receipt in seconds and everything just felt so smooth and modern and it turns out they use Square. That's the thing, you've probably experienced this without even realizing it. Now, one feature I have to mention is Square AI. You can literally ask it things like, what were my top sellers last month? Or which day of the week is the slowest? And it gives you instant answers as charts that you can save and track over time. So it's basically like having a business partner who's crunching your numbers around the clock. And Square just made Bitcoin simple too. You can accept Bitcoin instantly with zero processing fees through 2026, no charges, backs and no delays, plus everything you already know Square for, every payment type, staff and payroll, synced inventory, instant access to your money with Square checking, all in one place with no extra apps. Right now, listeners can get up to $200 off of Square hardware when you sign up at square.com slash go slash Bucky. That's S-Q-U-A-R-E dot com slash go slash lucky. Run your business smarter with Square and get started today. You talked a bit about how you've built on Patreon. Also recently, there have been some very exciting news. Maybe a lucky moment that you created, we could say, where you recently announced this really amazing landmark deal with Patreon, which is something they've never done before. Yeah. Early June, we announced that we're doing this multi-year partnership with Patreon. And I'm just really proud because it makes sense. I mean, we had had a lot of offers from a lot of different media companies about taking our show to them. And we explored all those opportunities and the Patreon deal just made the most sense for us. I had been saying only on Patreon for the last several years. And I was exclusive to the platform without anyone asking me to be. Patreon was not asking me to be exclusive to the platform. I just did that because I felt that was the best way to bring in an audience and also to stand on business on your product and be like, it's deal or no deal. Either you're going to pay for it or you're not going to get access to it. And I believed in it that much. So five years later, to be doing a deal with them of this magnitude is really special because one, we didn't have to compromise what we were already doing to make that make sense. Also to be paid for doing something you were already doing is like the greatest sense of alignment I could ever impart on somebody. It's like, I was already doing it. I was already doing it exclusively. I already enjoyed it. I learned a lot about the platform because I literally grew with the platform and watched all the features be developed. And so I knew it well. And so the deal came to fruition because we basically propositioned them and said, this would make a lot of sense. And what I really appreciated is that nobody fought back or pushed back on it. They understood and agreed from the very first meeting we ever took. Wow. So you went to them and said, here's how a deeper partnership could look. Could make sense. Can we explore this? Yeah, because we had been being poached, you know, quite aggressively by so many different media companies. And that was also an indicator to me that like there's a market value here. People want this show. And most people were like, why are you on Patreon? Because they didn't really understand it. And like I said, my industry is on a different app for the most part. And that's not lost on me and it was not lost on Patreon, right? Yeah. And so when that many people are, you know, trying to date you, it does give you a little bit of leverage, but not from a, you know, the leverage was there, but also it made sense for both of us to do it. Both people would win. And I'm a big, I'm a big believer that the best partnerships are when both people feel lucky. Right. And so I like that. Yeah. That's the best sign that something, you know, whether that's dating, whether that's friendship, whether that's in business, like you want both parties to be like, I'm getting a great deal out of this. And And you're like, and I'm getting a great deal out of this. We're all benefiting. We're all benefiting from this. So, you know, it made sense for the user and for the audience. It made sense to keep that messaging continuity only on Patreon. That was one thing. For Patreon, you know, we were able to bring these amazing guests onto the platform and get them to also advocate for the platform. For us, it meant that we were going to be able to grow our operation even bigger. And part of announcing this deal was an interview I did with the CEO of Patreon, Jack. Yes. And it sounds like such a pluggy type of episode, but like it's not. I really, really impressed upon people to go listen to it because his theory around the future of the internet and where it's going and algorithms make a need for Patreon that much more important, you know, to be able to have a place. Even I have felt this myself as a content creator, being able to like duck away from the noise of like the out wide algorithms and being able to go tap in directly to my community because there I'm not confused. They're paying. So they're going to listen to what I'm saying and they're going to have a lot more thought and care and respect and discernment for how they communicate or give feedback or disagree. It's so much more of a tasteful environment than it is being out wide, which is just chaos sometimes, you know, pure chaos. So having these little gated communities, I think is really helpful. And maybe, I don't know, but the future in a lot of different ways. Yeah, which I think could be potentially interesting. And I think especially as a creator and as someone who is creating in media, it's so clear that the benefits are there for having your people who are probably not paying to hate watch and hate listen. And even if they don't agree, are there to have respectful discourse and because they're invested in what's happening. And then there's another part of me where I think about for the consumers. I wonder if that could also potentially lead to even more silos and what that looks like. You mean like subscription fatigue? Not even subscription fatigue, but like if you're opting in, if everything you consume is what you're opting into and investing in, which is not necessarily a bad thing per se, depending on what people are investing in, do they also never get any other perspectives depending on what it is they choose to invest in and consume? Well, that's interesting because that kind of goes back to what it used to be like to follow somebody and subscribe, which is almost like a non-effective even metric anymore, right? I mean, it didn't cost money to do it, but when we would subscribe to somebody, you'd actually see their stuff. And it was like, but I don't think any of us thought, well, what will I not be able to see something else? If I see this, we were choosing what we wanted to see. Same thing with YouTube, like, like, don't forget to like and subscribe. And so those would be the things that would populate your Explorer page first, because that's who you chose to see. The algorithm changed all that. So now we talk, especially in TikTok. And then everybody wanted to model themselves after TikTok. So that has completely turned everything upside down. And so now, and this is what that episode is about when I interviewed the CEO of Jack and he was also very, sorry, the CEO of Jack, the CEO of Patreon, Jack Conte. He was also very hyper aware of this kind of a bit before his time. And he's a creator and grew up, you know, built his career on YouTube and all these things before he even founded a tech company. So he comes from the lens of being a creator. And that's special because he knows what it is that we need or what we would feel and some of the obstacles that we face. But yeah, the subscription, the follow, all those things were like critical metrics for the relationship between the creator and the consumer. And now that the algorithm has kind of intercepted and acted as the middleman, we're getting told what we want to see. And sometimes, oh my God, this is something I want to talk about because it's a hill I'm going to die on. Sometimes you're being, the algorithm will over-index on what they think I want. Yeah. And then it makes me resent that creator, not because I don't like them, but because the person, the algorithm is showing me every single thing that has to do with them. Or a topic. It'll beat a topic into the ground. And I'm like, oh my God, now I have to like use block these code words or whatever so that I can kind of like curate my feed. But yeah, the algorithm changed how we consume media almost indefinitely. Yeah, yeah. I think probably my biggest concern, I guess if I'm getting more specific is like, let's say there's somebody who is like 10 toes down on subscribing to like every MAGA, a subsack Patreon, whatever, because it's out there. And that's all. They never get any outside information that could potentially. I mean, who knows? We don't. There's not. Those are tough nuts to crack, but like anything outside of that. And then we continue going deeper and deeper down that path, like what that could look like. But we already kind of get that. We kind of already have how it is. That's why everything feels so polarized and radicalized. and people, you know, I think the, so here's the interesting thing. I think the algorithm has more ability to radicalize people than what you're describing, than the person doing it themselves and only choosing specific media. Yeah, I think the algorithm can take you down really wild rabbit holes and you don't realize you're there. Because that's kind of how the algorithm works. The pipelines. And when we talk about pipelines, exactly, I think the actual technology is more likely to do that to someone rather than somebody voting in and only following the same things. We do that with our attention. Yeah. And that's why it's so important to be mindful of what you're paying attention to as if you're just, because it's called paying attention. So we're literally paying it. And you have to be so mindful of what you're consuming and how much time and attention you're giving it. This is why I'm a big believer in ignoring hateful comments. I'm a big believer in ignoring shitty people. I'm a big believer in ignoring content you don't like. Swipe up the minute you see it. Like don't give it any life because if you do, the algorithm will assume you like that and give you more of it. And this is like a spiritual practice, but it's also like a media diet practice. Like you have to be so mindful of where your attention is going because it is so powerful. And they know that these companies are building huge businesses, running ads against content that you consume and spend your time on. So like rage bait, don't fall for it. All sorts of nonsense that we see. Hate watching. Hate watching. Why would you? That doesn't make sense. It can feel like kind of like tempting and like, you know, cathartic and whatever, but don't do it Because like you're literally paying people when you do that. Yeah. So I just, you know, I try to encourage people and remind them like how important their attention is and like think about where you're putting it because it's literally making some people broke or rich, you know? For sure. Yeah. Coming back to your Patreon deal, you had also released one of your quick cuts, your solos, which I do really love. Afterwards, talking a bit about like envy and about some of like the dark sides of when you have something really exciting happen and it's like can be kind of a mixed bag of responses. I don't want to give away too much because, you know, the girls can subscribe and listen to the full episode. But I would love to get into that a little bit because I would imagine that for our audience, that's something that people experience where it's like you have something really good happen or something really exciting happen. And that's when sometimes some haters come out of Yeah. Yeah. I mean, hate, envy. I mean, jealousy. These are all really real concepts. And I think sometimes we don't give ourselves, you know, I didn't grow up with a, they're just jealous of you, mom. You know what I mean? Like the people who are like, no problem. It's not, it's everybody else. It's not you. I didn't grow up that way. I grew up with somebody who was very, very big on radical, radical responsibility. Like it's always your fault. Even when it's not your fault, it's your fault. So I think thinking about jealousy is a hard thing to interpret, especially if you're not an ego maniac and you're not super vain, you're not naturally going to think like, oh, well, they're just jealous. You're not going to think that first. You're going to be like, well, what is it? Or I don't know. I tried to be nice to them. Or is it that? Or did they not like my dress? Or was I rude? You're going to start. Most people of, you know, most decent people are going to self-reflect before they assume that somebody was jealous of them. But the T is some people are just jealous. And that really is what it is. And I think I've always been able to see that more in my professional life, more than my personal life, honestly. Although I think it's happen in both places. But we all know that feeling of having great news and somebody, you know, not really paying it any mind or not really giving you the kind of energy that you would have thought or it could be a close friend. So not a stranger, someone who you would think would be so happy for you and they're not. Or, you know, we're used to seeing people in a certain position. Everybody does this or categorizing people in their mind while they're down here and I'm up here and but if they start to climb, then then what happens? Then how tenuous is your position, right? And so then people start to look to the left and look to the right. And, you know, I was listening to Emma Greed's podcast and she had Gary Vaynerchuk on and he said something that stuck with me, which is that as he was building his business and his way to the top, so to speak, he always thought that people got there from confidence and that it wasn't until he got there that he realized that a lot of very powerful, successful people were insecure. And that resonated with me so much because I always thought everybody got there from confidence from just knowing who they were and what they wanted. And like you get to almost like you see athletes, right? Like you like real recognizes real steel, sharp and steel, like you're good. I'm good. And that we're all there in the sense of camaraderie and that everybody is the best in class. And like that competition is exciting, but that's not what's going on. There are some people who are in a position of power who are deeply insecure. And that was examples coming to mind for you, not just in pop culture. Oh yeah. Pop culture or in your workplace, your boss who's ahead of you and above you, who's actually jealous of you. So like what I've learned is like, you don't really know who's jealous of what or what is inspiring it from them or inspiring it out of them. I've been jealous before too, which is what that episode that I posted was about. And I think what I've learned as I've matured is like how to transmute and alchemize that jealousy rather than just letting it sit there and be like, you know, because I think that's natural, especially when somebody has something that you want. Like it's hard. It's really hard when you're Or if you've been working for it, like, I want that. And I do this and you eat cobs, for Christ's sake. You know, like, it's a really natural feeling to be like, well, I want that. How do you get that? How did you get that? And, you know, I think what's more important is it's not the feeling in and of itself. That's the crime. It's just not knowing how to translate into that, into something that can bring you more abundance, because the more you harbor those kind of resentful feelings, the further away you stay from the thing that you actually want. But it took me years to learn that, by the way, years. Like I've been a jealous hater too. And I think when this deal was announced, which is, you know, to me, it's like my first big deal that we've ever done. You know, I've been scrapping and scrounging around for like a decade trying to figure out like what works. And now in my late thirties, by the way, I finally have something that I'm like, oh yes, like we did it. We've done it. It makes sense. It's very validating in a lot of ways. And to take that out to people who you would think would be so excited, who know how hard it's been for you, who've seen you bleed, sweat, cry, tear, You know what I mean? I seen you in the mud I seen you in the mud and them not be happy for you That is an eye experience that I hope everybody gets to experience to be honest It teaches you a lot Yeah It teaches you a whole lot. I also think it can also teach you about yourself too. And like what comes up when that happens? What have you learned about yourself since experiencing that? Like experiencing haters or jealousy? I mean, it's this version of it. I think part of it is not to, and again, this is going to sound cliche because I think we all tell ourselves this in different ways. But I think part of it is like not to shortchange myself. And you know, right? Like how many times do we feel like, how do I say this? There's a lot that I've done successfully that I'm really proud of. And yet I still have moments where I'm like, I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to do that. You know, when you just, you're hedging your bets and you hold back. And when you see how many people have a jealous reaction to your being successful in whatever shape and form it comes in. And you're like, I wasn't even hitting the gas. You think of all the times that you're like, I wasn't even going hard. Imagine if I was going hard. Then you're like, wow, people must see something in me that I don't see in myself. It's so hard. I think that's a good motivator. Yeah. I think if you're like a humble person, it's hard to take inventory on the things that someone would be jealous of you for. Right. Like it's not a natural thing to do for yourself. Yeah. And yet there is somebody who's looking at you less and is like, I'm so jealous of her. She's this podcast. She's so pretty. She does this. She does that. She lives in New York. Like, I want to move to New York. You don't know it because you're all you see is like you, you're self hustling. And I feel like I'm that same way. There's a million things where I'm like, oh my God, if we could just get this, if we could just hire this person, why is this taking so long? If we did it and how did they, and you're looking left and you're right. And you're seeing people zoom past you. Right. Like I started a podcast eight years ago. There's bitches who started a podcast two years ago and it's like soaring way bigger than mine. You know what I mean? Girl, don't I know it? We have a whole episode about that. You know, and you look around and you're like, but zoom, zoom, zoom. And you're like, how did you, wait, what? So yeah, it's so easy to like only be thinking about the things that are challenges for you while not recognizing that somebody else is watching you and hating on you because they might want to be doing that exact same thing. But all of it is part of the ecosystem, right? All of it, there's room for all of it. But I just think that what I've learned is to not shortchange myself because there are people who are jealous of me at five, not even at 10. Imagine if I was at 10, you know, and really giving it my absolute all and never second guessing anything and moving with complete confidence and conviction all the time. Like we don't do that all the time, but we should practice. And also it's taught me that everybody is going through their own shit. Everybody has their own narrative running through their mind. I mean, I've had people be jealous of me that I'm like, you have everything. Why would you be jealous of me? You have everything in the whole world and you're focused on me. Aren't you so happy that you've accomplished this. And that's when I learned jealousy is not necessarily about people. It can come in all different sizes. It's not because somebody has more material things in the third dimension than you. Someone can be jealous of your spirit. Somebody can be jealous of your kindness. Somebody can be jealous of your beauty. Somebody can be, I mean, you don't know what it is that. That was something you talked about was like the light. People can be jealous of your light. People can be jealous. I've talked about how I was jealous of this girl who had like a great family because I come from a quite broken family. And that used to, oh, make me so mad. And then you say these like snide comments because you're like, you can A on your test and your whole family is celebrating you. Like that doesn't happen in my house. You know, you can be jealous of anything and you're never going to be aware of what the thing is that somebody is projecting onto you. You would have to know so much about their inner dialogue and their childhood experiences to be able to do that math. You won't know what it is. So my new attitude towards that, when I can sense it. And even when I can't, because that's the other thing. How many people have we had around us that are haters and we didn't know? Until you realize it later. Until you find out later or through something painful or whatever. Yeah. My new thing now is like, honestly, just like blessing that person and trying to like not let it affect me. And I say it from a place of someone who's also been on that in those shoes. I'm like, oh, I want that. And you don't deserve that. And then you start doing math. Well, they don't deserve it because of this. Girl, don't even trip because whatever's coming for you is meant for you. And like we, it's very hard, especially now, very hard to not compare yourself. I do it all the time. Like lately I've been in this like little comparison spree. About what? Just don't shit. Like shit that's like, like I've just, because normally I'm not like this for the most part. I do think I am pretty good at like staying in the course and focusing, but I've been like feeling it in myself. Like I'm like kind of looking around and I'm like, and I can feel almost like, like the power draining from the cup. Like I can feel myself not being on my game because I'm looking around. I can genuinely feel it happening. And I'm like, why am I so focused on what everybody else is doing? And then you like, you know, I'll meditate, I'll pray, I'll get back in my zone and like be like, okay, we need to, we need to focus here. But with social media, it's really hard to not look around and be like, every life is happening for everyone else except for me. Constant. Constant. And it's just not true. It's just not true. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I feel like that's a good reframe though. When we think about creating our own luck. We think about things that block our luck or drain our ability to create our own luck. I like what you said just now about draining the cup and, and where that energy can be better used. I think that that's a really good example of it. Yeah. Yeah. Just bless the person who's feeling some type of way. Yes. And let it go. And if you are jealous, this is my advice. If you are jealous of somebody, cause we've all been there. When you get that little pang in your chest being like, oh, I want that. Just say so happy for her and give like true, like abundance and generosity to that person. I don't know how they got that. Amazing. I hope I can call that in for myself. That means it's on the way to me. If that person, you know, you have to, because I started doing that like six years ago and I really think it helped. Yeah. And you felt like you saw a shift. 1000%. 1000%. Because hating is easy. Yeah. And it gets you nowhere. Yeah. So Rachel, before we go, I would love to hit you with a little rapid fire. Let's do it. Rapid fire. first thing that comes to mind with these questions okay your most unpopular fashion opinion light wash denim oh i don't like it bad i think it looks tacky i think it looks cheap light wash denim i think it looks it's not good super light no medium wash dark wash fine i do not like light wash denim we love a hot take uh your most recent impractical purchase that was totally worth it recent impractical purchase that was worth it. Yes. A lot of my purchases are practical, but the most impractical thing that I do habitually is buy things that I know need to be tailored and they never make it to the tailor. I think that's like just a bad habit. It's like my new thing, like just buy stuff that fits because I just am not, I just create another errand for myself and then I never do it. And then there's like a nice thing sitting on a rack that I'm like, I've never taken that to the... So that's like impractical in terms of my lifestyle. It's like, girl, you're not going to take that to the tailor. You're not going to go get that fitted perfectly. Just buy stuff that fits. It's true. I have a graveyard of things that need to be hemmed that is just... Do they make it there? They are not hemmed. I got to wear some tall shoes. Yeah. Do you buy it thinking you're going to go take it to get hemmed? Yes, I do. And then it somehow doesn't happen. Doesn't happen. Doesn't happen. One day, one day. The boldest decision you've made so far as a founder. Boldest decision I've made so far as a founder. I feel like it's a series of bold decisions all the time, right? Maybe going to the C-suite of Patreon and presenting to them a deal that was pretty audacious. Yeah. Yeah. I know it's supposed to be rapid fire, but I also think that there's so much beauty in that story because somebody from the outside looking in could see you get a deal and be like, oh, they just gave her this thing. not knowing the backstory of what you shared with us today, that that was your idea. And you went to them and moved forward with it together. And I think sometimes we often have these ideas that when we see people have something exciting or do something exciting, like a fairy godmother came and just gave it to them. And that's often not the case. Maybe if they have an agent who's organizing their life for them or something, that's not what happened to me. Yeah. So yeah, I would say that was pretty bold. And I mean, obviously you have to have like some, you know, data and credentials to land something like that, obviously. But they could look under the hood and see what the numbers were, you know, so they knew. I didn't have to do that much convincing, but again, really proud, really grateful that the stars aligned there. Yeah. Yeah. A signal you pay attention to that other people in fashion and media ignore. Okay. So I call the Cutting Room Floor a fashion show. And when I say that, I think sometimes people get confused because they think it means like clothing or fashion in the traditional sense. But the way we kind of like subvert the word fashion is just to mean like the way in which someone does something, right? Like the fashion in which you change a tire, whatever. So what I think is really interesting and actually critically important about the fashion industry is being able to look outside of it and use all of that information to then inform the way in which we do things. So I think it's like almost a cultural analysis more so than it is a fashion show, which is to say like shopping or getting dressed. Sometimes we'll have guests on, people are like, I thought this was a fashion podcast. And it will always have something to do with fashion somehow, or it'll be interviewing people who are in the business. but I think what I pay attention to is everything on the fringe. I paid attention to like TikTok before the industry was really getting on there and paying attention to it. I pay attention to like streamers. I pay attention to any kind of subculture where there's like some weird community that is feeling very sticky. Like people are very curious and like bought in on that thing. I like to go to spaces that are early. And this is also something fashion is a very conservative business, by the way. People don't think that and they tend to move in lockstep and follow the herd and they're not that innovative and they want to see something works before somebody else does it. And so in that, there's a lot of room for opportunity and innovation. And I kind of always go left if people are going right, because there's something to the left. If everyone's going right, it's probably oversaturated or on its way to being oversaturated. And that doesn't mean that it's bad or whatever. But when it comes to this business, I think part of the reason why we've been able to like bob and weave and be quite agile is because we're not going down the very traditional path that's already been created. So things I pay attention to, it was at the question signal that a lot of people in the industry don't pay attention to. It's really everything other than fashion. That's architecture, that's design, that's YouTube, YouTubers, that's, I don't know, there's like a million different mediums and then you can go grab it all and then bring it back to fashion. But I think when fashion is too self-referential or too same on same, I think that's what a lot of the business does. And it kind of gets really stale and boring quite quickly. I like that though, because I feel like you gave us so many examples today of being ahead of the curve. You know what I mean? Like being a bit ahead of what's going on. And you just told, you just kind of explained that really beautifully. Yeah. You have to be, you have to be kind of brave to do the thing that nobody else is doing though. That's the other thing that comes with it. It's scary and you don't have any proof anything works and all of that. But I think it's also people have proven over and over again, people who invested in something early people who like, you just have to believe it's really your own internal gut measurement. If you believe that something can work, listening to yourself more than you listen to other people. I mean, that's also been like a big thing for me. It's like, I listened to myself really, I have a really good relationship with myself and I definitely trust me more than I trust anyone else walking the planet that and God, that's it. So, you know, I can take advice, but usually if in my gut, I can feel that something's off. I'm just not, I'm just going to listen to that first because I've done it the other way. And I know what happens when I don't listen. You always regret it. And you always, always regret it. So now there's no point in even second guessing her. If she says, we're going, we're going. If she says, we're not going, I'm not going. Like, I don't need to answer. I don't need to explain it. We're just, we're not doing it because I know she's right. So that's usually what I do. Just listen to yourself. Yeah. That intuition piece. That intuition piece. That'll make you real lucky. Yeah. Yeah. The biggest misconception people have about you. The feedback that I get a lot is like, oh, you're so much warmer than I thought you would be. So maybe people think I'm colder than I am. Why do you think that is? Maybe because I've seen my interviews and nothing else or that could be part of it. I mean, some of it's true. Like I am pretty strict. I run a tight ship. I like certain things a very specific way. I don't really like I don't like to be bullshitted. That's my number one thing. If you bullshit me, we're going to have a big problem because I'm going to know and then it's going to be awkward and so like that kind of stuff. That's more of like an integrity kind of personal standard thing. But in terms of like how I interact with other people, like I'm warm. I love connecting with people. I love asking people questions. So I think that maybe because of that first part, I think people are surprised. when they're like, oh, you're actually really nice. Or I just get that a lot. You're warmer than I thought you would be. And I'm always like, what'd you think I was like? But I just think in general, especially as a woman in business, but in general, I think we're still, yet still trying to understand what it is to hold all of these different, to allow women to be so many different types of things. You know, it's like, I grew up in a paradigm where you were like, sweet, or you were the bitch. And there was like, you can be both. It depends on the day, you know? So I think that's part of it. Also being a black woman, there's also just like this expected mean girlness or harshness that people impose on you. And like, you're like, I'm lovely. I'm just black. There's no reason for you to think of me as a villain. So I don't know. But I think in large part, I don't really know what people think of me. I've tried to like do that analysis. And I always say I have like body dysmorphia for my own perception. Like, I don't really know what people see. Yeah. You know? Yeah. For the better, I think. I don't think we need to know as much. Yeah. When they say it's not your business. Yeah. I don't really know. But I do get that feedback a lot. So maybe that's an indication. Yeah. Yeah. Last thing, a moment recently where you felt lucky and this could be a moment of luck you created yourself or something that did feel kismet. Lucky, lucky, lucky, lucky. A moment I felt lucky. I love that your show is called She's So Lucky, by the way. And I love this premise that you can create your own luck because it just speaks to like the empowerment. Like, is it, was it luck or was it on purpose? I don't know. A moment I felt lucky. I feel lucky all the time, to be honest. I feel blessed and really lucky all the time. Truly every day, all day. I don't know. I think just moving to New York City. This will be my answer because there's such a great vibe. I don't know when this airs, but the Knicks just won. So if you guys are watching this, you're still excited. You already know what kind of vibe it is. New York is obviously having like the most amazing summer ever, but I don't know. I think just living in New York, just being here, just coming here. I wanted to live here my whole life since I was a kid. When I first came to see Broadway plays, I knew I was going to be back since I was eight years old. I used to have New York postcards and things all throughout my room when I was a kid. I always wanted to live in New York, there's just certain cities you're drawn to. So I've now been here like almost 15 years. And I genuinely still wake up when I'm coming over the bridge every morning, when I'm walking through. I mean, it still feels like a movie to me. I'm not tired of it. I feel so lucky to be here. I love it. It's like energy, dreams come true. My dreams have come true. The city has given me so much. Like I feel lucky walking around New York City all the time. It still gives me chills. Like I love this place so much. So I know it's changed a lot for any of you OG New Yorkers, please save it. But no, I do respect the city so much. Transplants and native New Yorkers. Like, I just think it's the greatest city in the world. I think it's amazing. So I feel very lucky being here. Period. That's a beautiful mic drop. And I feel the same way. Yeah, I love it. As a very respectful transplant. Yeah, same. Very respectful transplant. And people sometimes are like, would you ever move? And I'm like, I just maybe, but I just so far, I just don't. I still like it. A lot of people are like, oh, I'm leaving. It's been like 10 years. I'm like, no, no, we're still going. I love it here. Still going strong. Yeah. Rachel, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. Thank you for sharing with us how you create your own luck. Of course. Thank you. Everyone else can create their own luck too. Period. You heard her. Everybody else can create their own luck. Manifesting. Make it happen. Make it happen. Thank you so much for tapping into this week's episode of She's So Lucky. If you haven't subscribed already, what are you waiting for? We have new episodes every Tuesday. Subscribe on YouTube, on Spotify, on Apple. If you enjoyed this episode, leave a comment below and let me know your favorite part. Thanks for tuning in and I'll see you next week. Thank you for tuning into this week's episode of She's So Lucky. If you're ready to create your own luck, hit that subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube so you don't miss an episode and head to the show notes for resources, links and discount codes. And if you are really feeling lucky, we would appreciate your rating and your review. It really helps us be able to improve the show to get great guests and to understand what you want to hear more of. Thank you for tuning in and I'll see you next week. referred to in this episode.