Why Execution Matters More Than The Right Idea with Issa Rae

So, before we get into today's conversation, I want to share something I'm really excited about. My new book, Start With Yourself, which comes out April 14th. And to celebrate this spring, you can meet me in a city near you for the Start With Yourself tour. It's a series of live conversations where we'll go deeper into the ideas from the book. Start With Yourself is ultimately about self-leadership. And it's for those that want power, money, careers, and families. And it's about what it really takes to succeed as a woman in business and build something meaningful. Tickets are on sale 10 a.m. Local Friday, February 13th. All the details are in my newsletter. And if you're not subscribed, you can sign up at emagreed.com. I want to help you rethink how you show up in your work or your life. 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And it feels to me like you are building somewhat of an empire. And I feel like people think they know you. They think they know exactly what you're up to. But I wanted to ask you, when you look at this chapter of your life, how would you describe it right now? You're catching me at such a weird time. I feel like it feels like a new beginning in so many ways. I know, I know, I know. But bear with me. Like I've been with, you know, the same company for the last 10 years, maybe. Insecure came out in 2016. Yeah. Is that how long ago? Yeah, it came out in 2016, the end of 2016. And now, like, I've moved on to a new home with Paramount. Congratulations, by the way. I appreciate it. Big deal out there. Thank you. It's really, really exciting. And I'm still, you know, I love HBO. I'm still doing business with them. But like it just feels like new opportunities, new horizons. And I'm kind of in this like humble period where I'm like proving myself again. So the chapter feels like, yeah, new beginnings is the right thing. And I was telling the company that it feels like a show and prove season in a new way. You still feel like you have to prove yourself? Yeah, but I'm happy to. Like I want to prove myself in new mediums. I want to prove myself in the work that I do. I've been writing a lot more and also just kind of taking a step back in certain areas. So I'm just reevaluating where I am, but in an exciting way. And just trying not to allow myself to feel too comfortable with the direction that I've taken. Is that like out of creative necessity or is that because you're so ambitious? Both. Yeah. Yeah. When you say necessity, that resonates with me specifically just because like I don't want to feel stuck in any one place and I don't want to feel like I'm doing the same thing over again. I love a routine, but I don't want to feel like it's work and I know what to expect every day. Yeah, fair enough. I mean, your work has always had a very particular and specific point of view. And I guess my question to you is like, how important is the sense of ownership into you? So important because, you know, like ownership, you kind of get to dictate your your path and you get to. You run the show. I'm a bossy bitch. Like I've been that way since I was young and I don't mean it in like the police way, like I'm bossy. I mean, like I need to feel like I'm in control of my own destiny and ownership allows that. I hate, especially now, especially how volatile the industry is. And it doesn't kind of know what it wants to be and who it's serving. I'm very certain of that. And to be able to own that narrative and own what I make and own that lane is really important to me. I want to kind of take it back a little bit and understand what made you the woman that you are today. So kind of going back to your childhood, I wonder what part of the little girl is still inside you now? That little girl growing up. The sixth grade girl is very much in there. In the sixth grade, I don't know about you, did you ever have an awkward phase in your life? Yeah, I had an awkward phase. You think I grew up with this glam on this face? So the sixth grade me... I grew into these lips. I grew into these heads. Well, girls, say, that 11-year-old is in me and I think it's just There's just an awareness and, you know, that like any part, any insecurity that remains, any discomfort, discomfort that I associate with the little girl me. But then the imaginative side where you're just like that person thought anything was possible. That person was like, just wait till I grow up. And I still feel like just wait till I grow up, even though, you know, I'm grown. But yeah, in some ways, I miss not having that fear. I miss not having any expectations But my own And yeah, I like to play and have a good time Though recently I've been so I don't know I don't know what's up with me right now What is up with you? I know, tell me Give me the problems What's happening in that head of yours? I feel like you're on top of the world If I was diagnosing you, I'd feel like She's just sitting back, looking pretty With the deals flowing in and the offers happening and, you know, looking back at work, I did that thing. That's very much it. But I also feel like there's something missing that I haven't put my finger on yet. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. You really are ambitious. You feel like it's a work thing or it's not a personal thing? I feel like the work thing I feel good about. It's definitely on the personal side. And I think I'm wrapping up because that is a thing. Oh, I think I just cracked it. Thank you so much. You helped. I felt like I have been so ambitious on the work side. And a lot of those things I feel like I'm achieving. And then I haven't put as much focus on my personal side in the same way that I should and want to. And that has been an intention this year. So that balance and trying to figure that out and juggle that is something I've been like, oh, I don't do it well. I don't get who cares. But now I actually care. Whenever someone asks me, like, how do you juggle your work life and your personal life? I'm like, I don't. I don't. I don't know how to. And even hearing you talk about like your process when you go home, like you have this family that you're able to tend to. And I'm just like, I don't know what that is yet, what I'm striving for on the personal side yet, but I'll figure it out. I'm sure you'll figure it out. Do you feel like you want to be a mom? I do. I do. I do. I do but I only if it's if it's if it's meant for me I feel that so different I don't want to force it like if I were to find out right now that I was I'd be like if I were to find out right now that I was pregnant I'd be like oh no I'm not ready yet but in the future yes No, and listen, I feel that and understand it deeply. I think it's kind of amazing that you admit that because as an ambitious woman, I mean, listen, I feel like I spent my entire 20s trying not to get pregnant. I was just like, keep every baby away from me, right? It was like, like this. And then all of a sudden, you know, like something hits you and you're like, oh, I just want a baby and I can't think about anything else. But I feel like you know when you know, and it is the curse of ambition, right? It's like you have to, you know, figure out what's going to come first. And especially in the entertainment industry, like your timing, like you don't choose your timing. The timing chooses you because, well, you were working. I mean, you had this incredible YouTube series you were killing. And, you know, all of a sudden to the rest of us, it appeared you were plucked out of obscurity and suddenly you were on our TVs. I'm pretty sure there was some work that led up to that moment. Absolutely. As you know. Yeah. It's been it's been a long time in the making. And yeah, even before that YouTube series that people knew there were two other ones that I wasn't in, but I was still like working and grinding towards. But to your point, it has been just a constant, constant grind that I love. But there also has to be more in a different kind of balance. I don't want to like grind it out for nothing. Fair. Grind it out for nothing is not it's not the thing. Talk to me about your creative process, because I feel like, you know, you're a I mean, I assume that you're a writer and an actress first and foremost. Like, talk to me about the early days. Like what came before Insecure? Oh, man, before Insecure, I wanted to be a writer. I wanted to be a filmmaker. And, you know, I was entering contests. I entered a Sundance writing contest with a friend and we were semi-finalists. finalists. And I just wanted to make the movies that I love that weren't in theaters anymore. You know, like the Love Joneses and the Love in Basketball, like all those disappeared. And I was like, I want to make those. Those movies make me feel way. And then I started making web series when I went to LA and tried to sell those movies that I was talking about. And there just wasn't an audience for them. And so I would just dabble with trying to make an audience online. And that turned into like, I really like doing this. And now I'm building a following and I kind of just want to create for online until the right opportunity comes along. And then a few right opportunities came along that I fucked up. Thanks for telling us that. For sure. Please say more. I mean, I'm very candid about an ABC opportunity with Shondaland, Shonda Rhimes' company that I just wasn't ready for creatively because I was too scared. Like you were offered something and decided not to do it? I had pilot opportunity. I picked a show for them for ABC and their development team was so great in terms of like holding my hand through the pilot process. Because despite wanting to be a filmmaker, despite writing for my own web series, I had never really written a TV show before and much less like a network pilot. And so I was also such a fan of Shonda and everything that she was building. She is she has built over time. But to witness that firsthand, like I was in their offices working with their development team, it was just so cool. And I approached it with the what can I make for you mindset as opposed to what do I want to make and what's my voice? And I forgot that in that process, like they had wanted to work with me because of my voice. And so that process was just, I describe it as I turned in kind of like mush at the end of the day because I didn't know it was just voiceless, voiceless material because I didn't have a POV. And so, yeah, the ABC ended up passing on the project and I was like, I blew my one shot. And then HBO called after that to just see what I had. What do you feel like emotionally, like that waiting period between, you know, when you had the YouTube series to the ABC thing not working out and then, you know, getting insecure, you know, going through HBO? What was that like for you? The most anxious I ever felt was the waiting period to get the pilot for, to get the green light to shoot the pilot. That was such a long process. And that felt like literally my last chance to do it right. Because again, I was now at my dream network. HBO gave me a chance to do another draft. And that's when I was like, I'm just going to make it as raw as I can. Kind of reworked some things. Reworked a lot of things and then just sat there like, I hope they say yes. And I remember the day I got the email that we were going to be able to shoot a pilot. And I was like, I'm not going to fuck this up. And you didn't. You went in. Did it get to you at all? Were you like, I'm a star now? No, no, no. At what point did you start feeling like a star? I'm so interested. I don't, I've never felt that way. I've never felt like I'm a star. Yeah. Do people feel that way? I'm sure they do. I'm sure like, you know, yeah, I'm sure they do. No, I'm always on the other side of just like, oh, when's this going to go away? Like, let's let me take advantage of it right now. Because it's so, it won't last, nothing lasts. And I'm very cognizant of that. So for me, I'm always like, OK, what's the next thing and how do I how do I keep this going so that I can do the next thing? But no, I've never. Well, it's so interesting to me because, I mean, it's so clear that you have been able to leverage the success of that show and what it brought you as an individual, as a businesswoman. Because, again, and I will say this, I look at you and I'm like, she's building an empire. And I want to understand like why it's been important to you to have this diversification. Is it the fact that you can or did you always have this plan? Because you have gone into so many areas outside of entertainment in consumer goods and hair. You know, you've got this like burgeoning kind of restaurant empire that's happening. Will you talk a little bit about that side of thing? Yeah, it comes from having multiple passions and, you know, feeling like I didn't want to be. Kind of like what I was talking about earlier, stuck in one place. Like I love creating like that is what I love the most. But I also always wanted a coffee shop. I also love the restaurant industry. I love to eat. I love to serve. I love these things. So these are like passion projects for me. And to your point, I wanted to leverage the opportunity to work with people I'm fans of, to collaborate with them, to make these other passion projects or side quests work. And yeah, it was just a matter of like, not trying to limit myself, but making sure that it makes sense, that like my main business could support the other businesses. Because otherwise nothing works. And that's also something that I'm realizing, I've been realizing over the last year, where as much as I want to be like behind the scenes, I also have to be visible for these businesses to work, which is. Damn right. You're like, yeah, girl. I'm like, yeah, I know. Get out there. And that is, that's something I'm navigating because sometimes I just, I don't be want to be. Like right now, I've been off social media since the first and it's a dream. You have? I love taking breaks. I don't, I don't want to, but you have to. My most feared phrase about myself is, Issa just be doing anything. Like that would be like, oh no, is that what you think? And I don't want to feel that way about myself. Like, it doesn't make sense. Like, or I did it for the check, you know, like that. I say no a lot. You ever do it for the check? No. And my manager can tell you that. He's like, come on. It's a lot. It's a lot. You sure? And I'm like, no. I would rather not. No, because I wouldn't. Again, I would show up dreading it. And I don't like the feeling of like. This doesn't feel right. Yeah, I'm impulsive. That I feel like is my best and worst quality. It's my worst quality because I don't ask enough questions sometimes going into something, but it's my best quality because I don't overthink. And I'm optimistic in that everything will work out. And fearless. It feels like there's a certain part of you that is not scared about what options that you have. You're just going to go. Thank you. I don't know. That's like when I look at all the things that you do, I mean, I'm interested to understand that what lessons you're learning as you kind of are juggling all of these businesses. A lot of lessons. More recently, just I like being nimble more than having like I really, really like being hands on. and it gives me anxiety, the more I have to delegate. I find that I like to get my hands dirty. Like I just re-edited something myself a couple of weeks ago because I was like, I want to show how it should look. And I feel like it'll take me more time to explain it and I can see how it is in my head. And you can do that? You can edit black footage? Sure, yes, I can. That's where I came from. I had to do it for Awkward Black Girl. And yeah, this was like basic, but this was just to get the message across. And I'm like, I miss doing that. I miss showing and it pisses me off that things cost money, extra money when I know I can do it myself and I know I can do it well and it takes extra time. And I'm just like, I don't ever want to forget where I came from, where I was like, I want to make something so I can make it. I can just do it. That is a huge thing that I'm learning this year is like more people doesn't mean it gets done faster. It means it's just more people. Yeah, it's just more people. I feel like there's such a big difference between like visibility and power when for you did you kind of realize they weren't the same thing there's something about this era I was just saying this like because we're in this era of social media you feel like because you have eyes on you you should like I found myself I want to talk about this thing or show what I'm doing and I'm like why Who cares? Why does anybody need to know this? Why does anybody need this? What is this doing for me? Where I find like there's just so much power in just quietly doing. And when things are ready, like I just I love popping out with something finished that I want people to see, as opposed to having these moments of constant access accessibility that kind of mean nothing and aren't special. Like, I think for me, what I've, the conclusion that I've come to over the last couple of years is I want to do stuff that feels special. Where that come from From having so much thrown at it Like we were talking about the attention economy and just the barrage of content And now like what slop is going to be like I think people are going to crave And I know that I myself crave things that feel like they are special and that they're fleeting or that they are conversation starters and that they make me feel a certain way. Like I'm drawn to things now that just like I can't shake. Whereas if you asked me the last video I watched, I can't remember, but I can remember like, yeah, I was happy in the moment, but it's not staying with me. I crave things that like stay with me because I remember how those things made me feel growing up. They made me want to be an artist. They made me want to create things that made other people feel the same way. Yeah. And so is that like a barometer for you when you're choosing your projects or you're choosing what businesses to go into? You're really looking for something that has Like saying power Something that is going to be like memorable And thoughtful And move you Yeah I said I want to make people's favorite shit Like And that means That can be a range of things You need a t-shirt And that has to go on a wall somewhere I just want to make your favorite shit And that can be anything That could be like high art It could be you know slapstick humor but like there's some I have just like I have a range of things that make me so happy and I have defined who I am because they just there was some intention and there was something that resonated with me at the time and that that the period that I was in or it means a lot to me and my friends because it's inside jokes and so yeah I look for things that make me either laugh really, really hard because they're funny or stupid or things that just make me feel emotionally seen. And that's kind of my guiding, my guiding light. 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It's simply about sharing space in a thoughtful way and letting your home work a little bit harder for you when you're not there. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host. The Start With Yourself Tour kicks off on April 15th in New York City. Tickets are on sale now at emagree.com. I wonder what surprised you most about where like the decision making sits because you strike me as somebody that is very clear about your intentions. You have a North Star, you want to make people's favorite shit. In the entertainment business, like sometimes it's like not always like your decision. Like how, I just wonder like what surprises you now about where the decision making power actually sits. What surprises me? Yeah. Or even like, it's not even what just surprises you. It's like, I guess you're someone who's kind of taken that somewhat into your own hands. Was that always part of the plan? Ideally, yeah, that was part of the ideal plan. But to your question, something did surprise me where it resonated with me last year where I was like, oh, and I have so much respect for like executives and people who give notes, but it dawned on me that like what I wanted to make was in the hands of one person. Like, you know, the decision making was in the hands of one person's taste. And I was like, oh, okay. And they might be really honest about that taste. Like, oh, this genre thing might not be for me, but that also means it doesn't get made because it's not for them. And so that was like eye opening for me in a way where it was like, oh, yeah, I'm beholden to a singular person's taste. And while their taste might be broad and I respect their taste, everything's not going to be for them, which means like I'm the things that I really, really want to make on a large scale. I can't make because of that. Yeah. And so that took me a long realization. It took me a long time to realize. And and so that also made me double down in another area where I'm like, oh, I want to be able to make things independently and to have a breeding ground for experimenting. And I'm excited to do that more this year. Do you think there've been moments or rather have there been moments when there's been an expectation that you would be grateful for access when you are actually the one bringing real value? Yeah, that's... How did you respond? Not well, honestly. I've heard that said a couple of times and like there was an incident that happened where those words were kind of used. And I was like, oh, that's all right. All right. This is a business at the end of the day. And we're not friends here. And I can realize, I'm happy to realize that. And it kind of made me disconnect. And also in a hardened way, like look at myself as a product. I think that that is taking feelings out of it where you're like, okay, I am creating a product. I need a buyer. And if they're looking at me that way, then there's a there's a way where I need to balance like and this actually happened also in the on the movie side, like working with studios and, you know, making things that a studio will be willing to buy. That has changed so much. Totally. they uh like trying to figure out what what is theatrical and molding to kind of their standards it can be sometimes like soul crushing or you're just like oh damn like this is this is it but you guys know what you're talking about you know what you're talking about like there was a when we produced one of them days movie that i'm super proud of that it was like so much fun to make I'd never done I'd never tested a movie before that was like my own you know so we would test the movie in front of that even consist of like so showing it to them showing showing like people that come to a movie theater they will show up we'll sample like have a sample audience they don't know what they're going to come to see and they watch the whole movie they watch the whole movie and we watch them watch it and we watch when they laugh we watch when they don't watch what they respond to and then you kind of adjust the edit from there and so the first time you're showing it We know that there's flaws in the movie, but we want to test it for the audience to just see where we are. And after that first screening, the executives were like, or no, the person who does the survey was like, you need something in the first 12 minutes of the movie that's going to make the audience laugh. Otherwise, they don't know it's a comedy. And I'm like, that's so like that's so reductive of an audience. Like they're not smart. That's I don't know. But OK, let's figure it out. So we had to figure out and conjure this moment that was broad. for audiences to realize like this is a comedy and we work together to find that and finding the balance of like, please God, like, can we make it this? Can we make it this? Can we make this? And then we settled on a moment and it literally works. And the test was the right decision. It was the right decision. And I'm like, that's when they know what they're talking about. I've learned so much during this process. And that's when I'm like, oh, this is a product that has been tested, that has been sampled. And my creative instincts aren't always going to be right no matter how passionately I feel about them there there are formulas that work and that audiences swear by if I want to make stuff that isn't that then that's my own creative risk then I'm not making a studio movie and like I'm taking that risk on but that's like you know a culmination of I guess you know experience and somewhat of like you being like having a maturity level to be able to like take that information. Yeah. I wonder like, you know, because I feel like as women, we're so often encouraged to be collaborative and agreeable. And I wonder if you've ever felt the tension of having to be respected and having to be liked in your business. Yeah, absolutely. How do you navigate that? Well, generally I, I still approach things because I've seen the other way. I've seen people just throw their weight around and, and do all that. And I don't like that. I don't like witnessing it. I've seen people I respect and talent I respect, like talking to people any kind of way. And they maintain that that is how you get things done. That's the worst. But yeah, it is the worst. And I feel like what I've done is taken a step back and realized like everybody who's a part of something for the most part wants it to be good and wants to do a good job. And so talking to people like they don't want that is like everybody loses. And so I try to find, And I try to keep that in the back of my mind, like you wanted this to be good. You want to help this. So like, how can we work together to make that happen? Unless someone is outwardly disrespectful to me, then I won't return that energy. But make me make no mistake. If you are disrespectful to me, I will come at you really hard. But yeah, generally, no, I try to operate with with kindness and with the with the intention to move forward and make something good. What kind of leader do you think you are? That I feel like I'm one that listens. I'm one that I like to fix things. I hate things. The biggest challenge I've had is when people come to me with problems that are more to vent. And I'm like, I can't do anything. So I can't do anything about this. You're just telling me this. And I have to carry this now. And like, what can I what can I do about this to fix this? And yeah, I think for me, if it's not a fixable thing, don't tell me. I mean, I'm not, I have a low tolerance for people coming to me and this is a solution. Yes, and help me find a solution. I will whine and moan with the best of them. I need you to start with a solution and then we can bitch them up and down. Give me the solve. Don't waste my time. I completely agree. And, you know, I have been like, please, if you're going to bring me something like bring me two things you want me to. You've been thinking about a solution because I have to fix a whole bunch of different things in the day. And you just got this part. How comfortable are you using your power? I'm like, please, just rein it in. How comfortable are you using the power that you've earned compared to earlier in your career? I think way more comfortable now. Before I used to tiptoe a lot and to your point, like I just want, I don't want to ruffle any feathers. I want, I just got here. I want people to like me. Now that I'm like a business, I'm just like, yo, business got to get done. I don't, I don't care. And then honestly, this period is pissing me off a lot because to watch people because it is like watching people comfortably. Be like, we don't want to make black shit and or something is too bad or like we don't want to. We're stepping away from these things and sitting in that and feeling power, power and like, oh, we don't have to hire. We don't have to do diversity hires because that's what I always thought it was the entire time. Like not having that same mission and being able to just go back to the status quo, like that doesn't it just doesn't sit well with me. Like what is where's the intention? Like where's the acknowledgement? And I'm not saying that like the way that things were was great at all by any means. I feel like there was there was still a lot of I don't know. There was there was there were the wrongs of entitlement or things like that. But I just feel like not acknowledging that we have a broken system is so stupid. So stupid. I want you to say a little bit more about that because I do feel like, you know, there was this moment and this time and this energy where corporations, it was like a wake up call. And I think being, you know, not from America and being right in the thick of that and being surrounded by what felt like this amazing moment where people that had just not thought about this stuff in the longest time were suddenly being forced to. And they were being suddenly forced to mandate it and measure it and be intentional. And then the mass exodus. What are you actually doing in your own business that's contrary to that? maintaining it you know like we we really haven't switched up and yeah the intention is still there like we still have that same passion for the fervor to break people into the industry to to again it comes down to telling these stories telling our stories and the commitment is just even even more there and when i watched sinners like i was so excited I mean, you know, like it just felt like something so welcome during a time where we were so starving and thirsty. And it was clearly someone's personal art that just you could feel. Yeah. Talk about something that stayed with you. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I've never seen anything like this before in my life. Yeah. And I was grateful to have witnessed that and to share in that. And so that was a product of right after, you know, that was right after I'd imagine even the way that he was able to negotiate his deal that happened in the 2020s, like 2021 maybe. And in that process. And so, like, that's what we get out of something like that. That's the that's the permission we're granted to make something like that. And that excites me. Excellent shit, your favorite shit. My favorite shit, honestly, deeply. And so, yeah, I'm like, we want to be able to create those things at our company, whether it comes from us or not. Issa, if there's one thing that you could say to your industry about the rollback of DE&I, what would that be? I guess just be considerate. Like, just look at, like, literally, so many sets that I've walked on have literally just been like, it's all white dudes. Like, did y'all even, are y'all looking at this? Like, come on, just be like interview everybody at the very least. And that's the challenge. Just look around and think about if it if it replicates what you see in the real world, honestly, which feels so simple. But can I just say in the simplicity, that's the solve, because I think what people don't want is they don't want things that are cumbersome. They don't want solutions that take longer. But when you talk and when I talk about this, like it doesn't take many people in a room to be considerate. It just takes that one person to go, can I just check everyone here? And usually when one person speaks up, the rest of the room goes, oh, yeah, shit. Like, yeah, we need to revent this. Right. Yeah. So I actually think that like our own personal responsibility here is that be that person, be that one person that fucking says something. because often it doesn't take much more than that. Now, listen, we know there are spaces and places where one person doing something is not going to mean anything, but in a myriad of ways, sometimes that's all that's needed. And so I like to encourage people everywhere in every company, it doesn't matter what you do, like be the person who stands up and says, should we just check ourselves right now? Yeah, I wholly receive that and agree. Let's go. All right, Isa, my favorite part. Ooh, ooh, the legs switched up. What am I in for? I want to talk about money. Oh yeah, let's go. Let's go. I don't know why nobody wants to talk to me about money. And I was so happy because at the start of this interview, you said to me in the green room, you're like, I'm here. And nothing makes me more happy than when someone just comes to play. Someone comes to have a conversation and just like get it out. I want to start because you are a creative person. First of all, how important is that? money to you at this stage of your career? At this stage, it is important to own. You have to have money. Like you just, you do, you have to be able to, to be able to self-finance, to be able to take risks. Like that is, that's a huge part of like what my, what my North Star is. And so if I don't have the means to, to pay people, to get things done, then I will suffocate. And then I'm at the whims of the mercy of other executive studios. Money matters. And I have put, even talked to my business manager this year, like, and thinking about setting the goals that I wanted to set for this year and beyond. He was candid. He was like, everything, everything that you're making now is for other people. Like, you're fine. But this is everything that you're making from this point is for you to invest in other people, for you to invest in projects. Like you could be fine right now. You could retire. You could be done. So think about that and how you're how you're using your money. And I was like, oh, that kind of put a battery in my back where I was like, oh, I'm cool. Because I have been used to just like watching myself and making sure that I'm financially stable and feeling like, again, these things will go away. And to be able to hear like, no, you're good. Also was like, oh, well, shit, I can do more. How did that make you feel? There's nothing about you that was like, oh, good, I'm going to like. Go get a house in the countryside and chill. No, but I was like, oh, that's in my future. Cool. Great. And it's, again, so dumb that maybe I didn't think that, but I'm so used to like hustling and grinding that it was, yeah, it was a wake up call that there's nothing stopping me beyond wanting to have a successful business and businesses. Like, I don't want to be reckless at all. Have you had times in your career where you've been reckless? Because obviously you have invested in yourself. Have there been moments where you've taken risks and perhaps you didn't understand, like, or fully understand the costs or what might have happened? Yeah, ironically, when I didn't have money, like I was taking all these risks and going, you know, heavily into debt. Like I felt so crippled and crushed by the money that I owed, you know, and that sucked. But I was like, there's no other way that I'm going to get this done. And I guess I, I, the impulsiveness, I didn't plan this out. I didn't know how to budget. I didn't know what things cost. For me, it was like a necessity to make things. And, you know, ultimately they paid off. And then that came with the optimism, like, okay, if I spend this now, I know I'll figure out a way to get back. I'm working three, four jobs now in different nights. And like, I will figure this out, but I need to do this at this time. How's your relationship with money changed over the years? And it changed a lot in that like now I feel like I said comfortable I don think about it as much in my like personal daily life I think I only think about it when it comes to investing and advancing my businesses and what possible But I honestly, I still am approaching things with the like, we can get it done for this. Like we don't need to spend that much money. You're frugal. I am so frugal. I am so frugal. I don't have all the streaming services because I'm like, why am I paying for stuff if I'm not watching this thing? I don't. People make fun of me for that. But I'm like, I'm frugal. I'm like, just because I have it doesn't mean I need to spend it. And if it doesn't make sense. So what I will say is like my you asked me my reckless things. I was just talking about this last night. I want to know your reckless things. I want to know like the last fund purchase. No, it's all it's literally food and travel. That's it. I will pay so much for a restaurant experience, for Michelin's or whatever, for someone that's up and coming. That's a treat to you. I love that shit. Michelin star deliciousness. I love wine parrins. I love alcohol. I love all the samples. And I love going places that like, like being able to point on a map and being like, I'm going to go there and I want to stay in the best resort or the hotel or wherever it is like that. That is my experiences. That's your indulgence. Yeah. But which are things that I can keep, but they stay here. Like I don't really buy things, unfortunately, that are like I can point to and be like, oh, I have that. That's what I spent money on. No, you're like, I went to Japan and I had these insane experiences and that meant something to me. Yes. Yeah, I mean, that's a great way to spend your money. I mean, for women that are listening to this and they're always told to, you know, like invest in themselves. What do you think about that conversation that deserves a little bit more honesty, given your experience? I guess, yeah, sometimes there's a reticence to take care of themselves, like especially if they have families. Like they're like, I have to I have to make sure everybody else is good, which I respect. But nobody will be good if you're not good, you know. And I think if anything, that's the message. But I've been I think I'm working on being a little less selfish this year. Anything I have been selfish and I've acknowledged that like I'm like, oh, wow, the older I get, I could tip the scale the other way. I could. I could. I could definitely tell me about that, because that that to me is so interesting. You know, I've just written a book. It comes out in April. It's called Start With Yourself. And I am big on selfishness. But I feel like you can afford to be like, come on. But I guess, you know, this industry will have you feeling like and you asked me if I feel like a star. No, but I've definitely been catered to. And this industry will make you feel like you're important. And that's not real, you know. And so in that way, like I've had to shake like, yeah, this is not about me. There are other people that make this work. Like you should be thinking about other people a lot more throughout this process and making sure that they're good. And I do to an extent, but I could do more, you know, and not even to an extent. I do think about other people. But yeah, there's just more that I could do to de-center myself. So what is the season of less selfishness for Issa even look like? um it is like being more intentional about like this was this these were also my resolutions but please give them to us like more family time being there for friends like so many of my friends have been there and family members have been there for my events and you know I want to make sure that I'm there for the things that matter to them and carving those time the carving that time out and yeah, just being more generous with my time for the people that I care about. Is some of this stuff like just age and wisdom or is this coming with a certain thing that's happened? It's probably going back to what I feel like is missing, you know, like the personal side and investing in the personal side and making sure that that balance is there. So yeah, it's coming with age, but it's also coming with like the awareness of what else fulfills me. Yeah. I wonder, I want to go back to all these businesses that you're building and I wonder how you protect like your creative flow and your creating energy when you're doing so many different things in different lanes. I trust the people that I work with and that I collaborate with. I make myself available when I'm needed. But if people have a and then, you know, I'm there for like the critiques and trying to improve things. But I for this year, I have such a target and have such a such specific goals about what we need as a company, what I need as a creative that I've been really focused on that. because like I said earlier, if I don't have the things that I'm creating, also if I'm not visible to a certain extent, then nothing else really works or matters in the same way, like in a rising tide lifts all boats kind of way. So I really have to make sure that like why, like the core of why I got into this industry is functioning and functioning well. And is that how you do it? Like you set goals for yourself and the company? Yes. But also the best thing that I ever did was hiring a COO. I really wanted that a long time ago. And a lot of my day... Was that a goal? It was. It's been a goal for a long time. I've been looking for a long time. And because I find that, you know, a lot of my day was wrapped in meetings and managing the company. And that meant that I didn't have time to create a production company. Yes. Yes. Like the company who write at large. And so to be able to have someone who is actively strategizing and actively keeping us on target and actively holding people accountable in a way that I almost felt embarrassed to only because like, I can't hold you accountable if I'm not holding myself accountable to this deadline and blah, blah. And I have my attention is split so many ways. So to be able to find that right person to to do that has been a huge weight off of my shoulders. I'm still deeply involved in these targets. And like I said, I'm super hands on. But yeah, I needed focus and I needed I needed that. let's be honest finding supplements that are clean transparent and well-made can feel totally overwhelming too many brands hide behind fillers mystery ingredients and taking care of your body just should not feel that complicated that's why symbiotica stands out they're redefining wellness with clean science-backed supplements designed for superior absorption everything is luposomal, third-party tested, and made without unnecessary additives. This is wellness done with intention. One of the biggest reasons why I love them, no pills. Symbiotica supplements come in convenient single-serve pouches. You just squeeze and go. They're easy to take everywhere, whether you're traveling, heading to a workout, or moving for a busy day. They actually taste great. Some of their most popular options include luposomal vitamin D3 plus K2 and CoQ10, and luposomal vitamin B12 plus B6, now available in portable packets that make daily routines simple. They also offer magnesium L3 and A, glutathione and vitamin C for a well-rounded approach to daily wellness. Symbiotica is as high quality as it gets. Wellness made simple for you and your loved ones. Go to symbiotica.com slash aspire to get 20% off plus free shipping. That's C-Y-M-B-I-O-T-I-K-A dot com slash aspire for 20% off plus free shipping. What are your goals? What are you ambitious for now? I want to be more prolific, you know, even in the things that I make. I do. I do. I want to be more prolific. Yeah, like there's so much that I want to make. I want to make so many. I want to make more movies. I want to make more TV shows. I want to expand my digital footprint now that I can. Like there's just, and that's not just me, that's working with collaborators that I've always wanted to work with. And now that I can be available to do that. Another resolution, it was to be less accessible, you know, and that like accessible in the sense that, yeah, I would take these meetings. I would meet you for lunch. I would go to dinner. And then that would be more time sucks for me. And like more time that I'm not doing what I feel like I'm supposed to do. So I have been humbly staying inside. How did you learn that discernment? Because I'm sure after Insecure, right, the floodgates opened. Everybody wants to work with you. What's the conversation that goes on in your head that decides whether you should be involved in something or not or take an offer or not? Oh, man. What's the conversation? Yeah, it's just because I just imagine you like in a mirror. I write it down, actually. and I will weigh the, what is it, the opportunity cost. That's like the one thing I learned in economics. Is that. That's a big one to learn. It really is. Especially for someone like you, because, you know, for you to be visible in some, your time is finite. There's only so many hours in a day and days in a year. Yeah, but some people do it really, really well. And there are some people who genuinely enjoy it. And I don't. I have to recognize that. Like, are you going to like... are you going to like shilling yourself out for this? So it really has to matter. Like when I love something, I will whore myself out for all day, like in all aspects. But if I'm like only lukewarm, then it does feel embarrassing to me to show up and be like, Hey, I'm promoting this, you know? And so I think about that often. Like, how are you going to feel when, when it's out? Yeah. Or when it's, yeah, when it is like, you have to post it on your social media. You have to do that collab post. You have to do whatever it is. Like, are you going to feel good about it? Are you going to feel like, oh, and but post insecure was different. I didn't have the experience for me. It was just like my eyes are open. What? Yeah. Like this is this is a possibility. I can work with this person, even though I may not be mentally ready yet. Like I yeah, I'm going to go for it. OK, I fucked it up. Damn. Like a lot of that happened. Yeah. Like absolutely no doubt that happens. What are you most excited about now? I'm just proud of the stuff that I'm making and the collaborators that I have I'm this I keep saying that this year is it does feel like I've been saying like 26 it's been feeling like 2016 before everybody else has been saying it oh were you an early adopter of that I was I wrote it last year I was like oh my husband says that I'm like shut up he said that too yeah he's uh Pisces oh he's a He's a Pisces. Yeah. So he he knew he had the feeling that this this year. I think he's usually good at like catching a vibe. He's like, Emma, you know, this is what everyone's going to be talking about saying. I need to know that 2016 around me. It's real. it felt similar in that like that year for me I was like on the cusp of creating and felt like I I knew that I was making something that I really desperately wanted to be making that I was super excited about and I have the same energy this year around multiple things where I'm like oh this feels like the build it year and then it feels like the reaping year and then the sewing year is next year oh it's like a two year it's a combo yeah no no this i understand i'm into the one-two punch i like to brand my years and i always have like a an idea for like like this is this year and then this year leads to this yeah yes the one two totally works for me what's your brand for this year oh like this is the breakout year oh okay yeah what was last year i don't know i've been sitting behind the desk for the last 10 years i can't tell you they're the typing years oh my god okay so that was the it was the chunk the typing years that she's been like you know meant sewing I don't know the breakout years it's gone it's gone in such a flash that you know sometimes like you can lose years that's what kids will do for you between the kids and the companies I'm like I need to break out and I don't mean it in that sense of like you know a star breaking out I mean like breaking out of these things that have sucked and taken every bit of time and energy that I've had. I need to like feel that now feed yourself and that company works. Okay. Bye bye. Yeah. I feel it. You're, you're pouring into me. Is this also what the book is about? Kind of. I mean, the book is really one of these things that I was desperate to say, because I just feel like we're in such an interesting time in the culture and the way people work. And so, you know, I can't, I'm like in the same way that you said, you don't want to hear people just come to you with like noise. I don't want to hear that from a whole section of society. So I just, I just tell them what I think. Woo. Yeah. I'm, I'm going to pick that up because yeah, I need to hear all that, but the breakout year, I fully feel it. We try, but I love the one, two punch. I love this idea that you're like sowing the seeds and then you're going to reap the rewards. I mean, this is, it's pretty incredible stuff though. Like it feels like you're in a lane and you're doing the, you know, great stuff and great work. And you look like a person who is somehow kind of quietly confident about what they're doing. Yeah. I would say that I am quietly confident. Yeah. Cause I just don't want to be seen being confident. You know, it's just, yeah, I would rather again, be behind the scenes and just working and then emerge like, yeah, the cocoon thing where I'm like, I feel like I'm very much in this cocoon and like this self-made cocoon, just like becoming what I want to be, like becoming this. To your point about the type and cluster years, I feel like the last couple of years I've been a moth and now I'm like, oh, I'm about to come out a butterfly. You got to see. I mean, I love that. I'm thinking about this idea about, you know, like productivity and pressure. Like at what point does all of this productivity that you've got in your life become pressure to you? Is there any sense of that? I think when it comes to, I put a lot of pressure on myself for sure. But then, yeah, when I think about the other people who are depending on me and that could be people at the company, that could be, it could be familial. Yeah. I just. Oh, you have that too? Yeah. Yes, I do. To the less extent than you for sure. I don't have four kids. Um, but yeah, like I think about it is mostly on myself because I'm, I'm, I envision my head where I want to be and I'm so impatient, you know, like it really, it really bothers me when things don't happen on my time. And like, I always learn on the other side, like, Oh, the timing was just right. That's it. But it's a lesson I have to learn literally every single time. Really? Because it just doesn't, like, it's just not dropping in for whatever reason. Yeah, I get frustrated when I can't do things the way I want to do them now when things aren't on my time. I think, I guess, that goes back to being bossy, goes to being ambitious, it goes to this overwhelming feeling that I'm running out of time, like all these things. You feel that? You feel like you're running out of time? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is it about the 40s that does that to you? Shit is fucked right now. shit is so fun uh but yeah like you know i think also in a good way where it's just you only have this life if you don't believe in reincarnation which i would like to believe in heavens never mind i'm not gonna get into that don't go on go on i love that well just heaven sounds so it's scary hell sounds scary but like living in a place it's i'm getting too much but Yes. I was so into it. I was like, we're going to be scared of heaven. You're going to be bored in heaven. I hope not. It's not enough. You know what it is? It's infinity. It's like the infinite. Yeah. Like when I think about things going on forever, whenever I think about like time goes on forever, I would rather be doing different versions of that time as something else as opposed to whatever this is. Well, you're like a person who's like craving the transition, like craving like the what's next, like something's great and you're like not resting on your laurels. You're already moving on. Like you're trying to cook the next thing. Yeah, kind of. Yeah, no, yes, that. But like where life is concerned, I absolutely have to make the most of it right now. Yeah. And also I feel like there's a certain amount of privilege in this situation that you've created for yourself that you're like, why wouldn't you make the most of it? Yeah, if I can. there is so much like anytime I'm by no means I feel restless right now and I feel weird and I've been expressing that but I am beyond happy like I feel happy that I've been able to build a life that I want you know there's and my happiness does come from like yeah creating things whether that is creating the life that I want whether that's creating your favorite shit whether that's That's maybe creating a family. Maybe that's whatever. Like I feel fulfilled when I'm productive and doing things and those things fulfill me. And waking up every morning and feeling like I have a go at it and a go at something new really, really excites me. I love that. How do you think about legacy? Do you think about legacy? Yes. Yes, because I think about death all the time. Clearly. Do you? Yeah. Because it's an unknown The heaven thing was just the question I asked you No girl, I think about it all the time That's like when you love your life You're going to think about death And what is next And so I think I know that part of the running out of time thing For sure is Like wrapped up in mortality You know, but it's also Thinking about windows And the like, so yeah, I think about it's amazing to me that you say you think about death like one of my I'm going to totally mess the quote up but you know that Steve Jobs quote it was like I think it was like a Stanford commencement speech where he says the single best invention of life is death oh man and it just is like you know the knowing waking up every day and knowing that your time is finite and one day you'll be gone yeah it's the best thing it's a great motivator it honestly is and it's so funny I think about his last words a lot. Like when he was dying of cancer in the hospital bed, he like lost consciousness for a bit. And as he was dying, he said, oh, wow. And I think about that. I was like, what did he see? What did he see? And then he just, you know, he left. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's what he said. That's just crazy. What did he say? Now I want to know. What did he say? What did he see? what we want. What a life. Yes. Oh, wow. Yeah. Look at that shit that I did. Yeah. He could have been flashing back to where he did or he could have just seen, seen what next Yeah He was like I made your favorite shit Oh wow This is it Yeah Unbelievable I like to think that Unbelievable So your legacy will look like what If you can fast forward and look back and say something about your career, what would it be? I don't get to dictate that. But if I could. I like what you said about being fearless. Like, but when I compare myself to people who are actually fearless in the face of danger, it doesn't add up. So I take that back. I take it back. I understand that. I mean, in your industry and what you're doing, because there's a part of you that's like, as I was doing my research, I was like, she's a one of one. There's not 10 Isas. Like, you're very, very formative in forging a path and doing things in a way that isn't easily replicated or seen. And so I do think that there is a part of you where that fearlessness, like, has to be, like, it has to be there. Like, as I was going through, I was like, wow, she's not scared of anything. She's just going. So interesting. Isn't it interesting what other people think about you? Yeah, it is. that I really, really try not to think about it. But I thank you for that. No, I want to be remembered more as a person than for my work, you know? I want my work to stand on its own, but like the good things that people say about you are like the interactions. Like that still matters to me too. Like I want to feel like, and that is part of my personal work. Like I want to be more considerate. I want to be less selfish. I want those things. And I do feel like there's a chapter of my life that I'm going to enter outside of this that feels more purposeful in a different way once I figure out what's missing. There's nothing worse than like loving something, loving a work and then kind of hating the person behind it or not appreciating the person's behind it. Like I hate hearing that some of my faves are monsters, you know? It's the worst. There's nothing worse than meeting you heroes and being disappointed by it. I try not to meet him. Yeah, just don't meet him. That's what I learned. Just don't meet him. Just keep it in your imagination. Yeah, everyone's great in my imagination. Absolutely right. You know how rent is one of those things that most people pay every month and don't really think twice about? It's just part of life. But built is built around the idea that if you're paying rent anyway, you should actually get something back from it. 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Over 100,000 companies are already using Pipedrive to grow their businesses. Right now, if you go to pipedrive.com slash aspire, you'll get a 30-day free trial. No credit card or payment needed. where do you think your biggest challenges are going to come from besides like myself oh it's you it's all you i'm always going to be the problem i like i will own that i am the problem i think also my biggest challenges are not knowing we're just talking about this like letting things giving people multiple chances and not you're not good at that i am giving i'm too good at giving people like i will see the best in people and i've had to learn i'm stupid like in that way for sure and i've had to be like no girl nipping in the bed it's not working yeah got it doesn't make sense. I'm great with that in my personal life. Easy. But in business not so much. But in business, yeah, because I'm like, I see the potential. That's interesting. Oh, so I've, most women I meet are almost like the other way around. Like, oh. So it's the business where you're giving people maybe too much leeway. Yeah. Especially when they have passion. I'm just like, okay. I guess there's a creative component. For sure. Of that. Yeah. I'll fire an annoying creative much slower than I will like a really annoying like person who worked in corporate in my office interesting because there's a there's a value to the creativity that's somehow harder to replace yeah for sure yeah I I completely agree with that and give me an example like when has there been a time when you've just like not you know just haven't cut it off quickly enough without being with the person seeing this and being like that's me um there have been well call her head did she have exactly there's been and this applies to a few people where like you you try to craft a role for them because they are so talented but that can be expensive or you know they may not show up in the way that you you need them to where deadlines are concerned. I need go-getters. And when I'm like, one of the things that I've also learned within the business is that we have a lot of, in my company, we have people who come up with brilliant ideas who are the smartest, but I need executors. If you're not, I don't give a fuck about your idea if you're not the person to get it done. You know, like we can talk about how great this idea is all day, but I need executors. I'm an executor and I, but I can only execute so I'm like, so I need you to be the ideator and the executor along with me and do it well. And so that is a thing. And that's like my biggest pet peeve is someone coming at me with a, we should be doing this. We should do this, do this. And I'm like, oh, that's great. Do you mean I should be doing that thing? Because how are we going to get it done? Because I'm already doing this, this and this. So like, help me. I feel like that's a great lesson, though, for any business owner, founder, because I call it having an enterprise mentality. because to me, you have to put the business first. In the times when I have taken a person that I have a certain affinity for and tried to mold something for them, it's never worked out for the company. And so to me, having an enterprise mentality means you might be amazing, but what I need for this company right now is something else. So you've got to go and take your amazing somewhere else. And that will be better for you too. Eventually, even though you don't know now, and I might be the first person to tell you, but that doesn't matter. And so I think learning to have an enterprise mentality, what is best for the business is the decision that you have to make as the owner of the business. And then everything else has to figure it out. I needed to hear that. I needed to hear that. And there's also like, I'm a loyal person too. And also trying to separate loyalty from the enterprise mentality. Because it's just like, just because someone has been with you for a long time, doesn't mean they need to come with you for every chapter. Maybe they've served their purpose. Yes. That sometimes doesn't feel right to me, but I have to, like business is business and I have to have a business mindset. Yeah. It's very, very, very difficult. And I feel like as somebody that's grown companies, you know, I always talk about the people that you started with, they're not always the ones that take you to where you necessarily want to go. the framework that always really helped me is that I always think when somebody's sitting in a seat that perhaps they shouldn't be I don't think about that person I think about the person that should be in the seat I'm like you're actually stopping the person that needs that role from having that role you see how I do this I love it you're just burning a hole in the chair yeah literally with my eyes and every part of me no but i think that it's really so true it's like because you need other things and and usually my experience is it actually benefits that person as well because people know when their time is up they know when they've come to the end of the road it's so hard for them to say it's so hard for you to say but you check in with that person six months later they're like oh my god i'm killing it yeah yeah and you have it valued and now i'm in and now I'm like wanted and like everyone was feeling it. That was me as an employee. I gotta say I've discovered, I realized that a few years ago I was like, I was such a bad employee because I wasn't in the right place. I, I needed to be somewhere else and I needed that, that like, I need, I've never been fired. I've never been fired. I've never been fired, but I should have been, I should I should have been. I should have been. There were a few jobs where I clearly one job I tried to like come in and give it my all. And as soon as they shut down my ideas, I was like, you don't deserve me. And I did the quiet quitting thing and did the bare minimum. I should have been fired. But like I needed to be out of certain jobs to to be who I am and where I am today. Fair. What do you hope that other women that are forging a path in your image or are trying to have the type of career that you've had, what do you hope they will learn from your journey? I mean, I trust myself a lot. And now I didn't enough early on, like those those times when I forgot why I was here, why I was in the room. when I second guessed it, I wasted a lot of time. And yeah, I had to go through those things to ultimately gain the confidence to feel like I belong in these rooms. But I spent so much time second guessing that that I would encourage other women to just always remember. Always remember why you belong in certain spaces what your strengths are. So in the same way that Larry told me, like, protect what this story is. Protect this. Like, always remember, like, I am fucking good at this. No one can ever take this away from me. These are my strong suits. I always have this. And no matter what, like, I can rest confidently knowing, like, I am good at this core thing, these core things. And then I'll be okay. Then I can, then I'm like, all the other things will bounce off of me. Like all the other doubts that people I may feel people have about me don't matter because I know this deep within myself that this is what I'm great at. And I feel like I have that where I'm like, I know what I'm really, really good at. And I think my strengths are also recognizing what I'm not good at and asking for hope. So I guess, yeah, for women, knowing what you're good at and also don't be afraid to like ask about what you don't know. What do you still aspire to do or become? I always say better. And I don't know what that means in the moment, but I can look like at this year and be like, I'm better than I was last year. I know that. I've never regressed. She doesn't go backwards. No. Aspire to become the second phase of my life. I'm still figuring out. I aspire to figure that out. That's pretty amazing. I love it. I love it. You're honest. I am. You really are. So before we wrap, a quick reminder that Start With Yourself is available for pre-order and tickets for the live shows are available now. Starting April 15th, we're coming to New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, D.C., Boston, Atlanta and London. Visit emagreed.com for tickets and full tour details. I cannot wait. Babe, I only have some rapid fire questions for you and I'm going to get you out right on time. All right. First, rapid fire, which is impossible for me because I'm so long winded. OK, what is your comfort classic TV show? Can I just, it's a classic, is any dating reality show like I will watch. Dating reality. That's what I love. Love Island. I love Love Island. The English one or the American one? Which one? I actually started with the American one. You did? Yeah, I've never seen the English one. Oh, I think that's the best one. I know I've heard, but I didn't have because I don't have all the streaming services. Because you got off all your apps because you're so cheap. But now that I got them, I got gifted so I'm going to watch UK. I mean, I've never seen it. You've never actually seen it over here? No, I've never seen it. I think that's the best one. Well, that's what I heard, okay? So that, I used to watch Love is Blind. I love the ultimatum. I can't wait for it to come back. There's a... You like trash. I love trash. But it has to be... I like watching people be attracted to each other. Oh. And like falling in love. And so like those shows give me that. All right. What song best captures this chapter of your life? This is going to piss me off because I have one and there's too many. I guess I'll say Elmine has a song called Reclusive and he's my favorite. And it's that's how I feel right now. I feel like I'm in a kind of reclusive state so that I can do what I need to do. What are you still learning to say no to? I'm still, despite trying to be less accessible, still learning to say no to that classic, hey, can we meet up for coffee or can I pick your brain? I'm getting better, but I'm going to say no. So if you ask me and I don't respond, that's what I don't want to do. I can't. What is a genre you're curious about exploring that people might feel surprised by? I like literal genre sci-fi. I like it a lot. I like grounded sci-fi. What's grounded sci-fi? It's like, I'm not doing like aliens and I don't like fantasy. Okay. But I like dystopian. Oh. I like dystopian dramas and drama Ds. Okay. We are, we're ready for that. I feel. What's a book that changed your life? The Courage to be Disliked. It's a great one. Okay. Final, final question. What is something that you aspired for or to when you were starting out that you no longer aspire to? Going to industry parties? I don't need to be there. She's not going. I'm not going. Also, you know what? In my reclusive state, I'm not watching as many things you see. I just told you what I watch. I watch a lot of trash TV with the occasional show that everybody's talking about that I'm excited about. But when I go to these events and I don't know people, I feel so embarrassed. I feel deeply embarrassed that I do not recognize you from your show or movie because I'm not up on it. So I would rather stay at home. Even though everyone knows who you are. I don't want that. That's worse. If someone knows you and is like also complimenting you and you can't give it back. That is very interesting. It happened to me actually just recently. I was doing a music video for an artist that I'm a fan of. And I hadn't seen this show that everybody was working because I just I was working and I hadn't gotten to it yet. And I met a girl and I was like, oh, are you in the band? And she was like, oh, yeah, kind of. And then I walked out and my hair and makeup was like, you know what that was. Oh, no. Oh, no. So that would be my everyday career. You said what? I said, stay home. You stay home. I will stay home. Thank you. You've given me the permission. I will remain at home. Thank you. You're just wonderful. You are the least disappointing person. Oh, my gosh. Thank you. I received that. I am honored. Thank you. Thank you for the amazing questions. Thank you for being wonderful. You made me really think and that it hurts a little. I'm happy to hurt you. You're still a one of one in my mind. Thank you. if you're loving this podcast be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform while you're there give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend we'll be so grateful aspire with emma greed is presented by audycy i'm your host emma our executive producers are derrick brown and me our executive producers from audycy are maddie Frank Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja, Lauren LaGrasso, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shorts. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado, and Arnie Agassi. Social media by Olivia Holman. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company, and WME. Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schaaf, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson-Rose, Tim Meikle, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's Aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E, with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me. so before we wrap a quick reminder that start with yourself is available for pre-order and tickets for the live shows are available now starting april 15th we're coming to new york los angeles san francisco chicago dc boston atlanta and london visit emigre.com for tickets and full tour details i cannot wait