Ghost Hunters Creator: "I Would've Started YouTube 16 Years Ago"

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's conversation on the Creators Hub podcast. I am delighted today to be joined by Jason Hawes. He's a paranormal investigator, television personality, and New York Times bestselling author, best known as the creator and where I've known him from, and original lead investigator of Ghost Hunters, the series that helped bring real world paranormal investigation into the mainstream for over two decades. That's crazy. It went on for that long. That's awesome. He has approached the field with a grounded, no-nonsense mindset focused on finding answers and not chasing the hype. He is now on YouTube where he has amassed a super large audience already doing well over there. Jason, how are you doing today? Good. How are you? Doing wonderful. Now, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you before we got into the YouTube stuff. Doing a television show, doing a show for 20 years, why do you think that show had such longevity? And you mentioned to me off air that there was a possibility that they wanted to continue on, so it could have gone even further than that. Why do you think Ghost Hunters did so well? Well, I think, first off, Ghost Hunters was the first show of its kind. It showed a bunch of ordinary people who were going in and looking for answers, trying to figure out what was truly going on. And also, I think the show was very different because we didn't work for a production company. And that was a big difference where even a lot of the shows today, you see all these people are hired in by a production company or they're casted by a production company. But this show was about us and the production worked for me. So I ran the show, but you could never really tell because everybody did their own jobs. But it was just one of those things where it was always about keeping it real. Run tape. Tape is cheap. You know, if you catch it, great. If you don't, you're out of luck. That's your issue. And go from there. I mean, it was a show of a bunch of people who were truly friends, who had known each other for so long prior, and just what we tended to do on the weekends. I love that. It's so cool to hear. I could do a whole show where I ask you just questions about that show and what it was like and stories from it. And maybe we can do that sometime off air. Let's talk about the YouTube channel now. You've made the transition from mainstream kind of television show to, you know what, let's dabble in this YouTube kind of ecosystem. And your channel now, which is after your name, is just Jason Hawes, which is H-A-W-E-S, has right over 200,000 subscribers, not even 300 videos uploaded. Can you talk about the origination story of this channel? What made you do it? What were the initial phases like? And just talk about the whole origin story of the channel. Right. Well, so I started this. It's funny because I started the channel probably 17, 18 years ago. But I started the channel just to look around YouTube, never really posting any content. I think there was only a couple of content things that we posted on there. It was a commercial that we did for like Hellboy and one of the promos from the show. But then that channel sat dormant for like 15 years. It wasn't until about a year and a half ago, two years ago that I decided I was asked to stay with TV longer. And they asked me to sign on for three more years. And to be honest, I spent 20 years of my life on the road. So I just, I was figured, you know what, I'm just going to do something on my own, have some fun, do it on my own schedule, my own time. And, uh, and that's what it was about. So we just started going out, investigating, filming, and putting the videos out on YouTube, very similar to the content on the show. We're investigating. We're cutting it ourselves. We're editing ourselves. We're doing it on our own schedule, our own pace. And we're just having fun with it. And I think that's what it's about. We're able to just have fun with it. And a lot of times, especially on the show, networks get involved and they're like, well, this shouldn't be in there. This should be in there. Let's not have the humor. Let's do that. on YouTube, I do whatever the hell I want. You know, I post whatever I want. I don't have to argue with the network to that. I want this in there, you know, or this out of there. When you decided to do it seriously, obviously you started a long time ago, but you made the decision, I'm going to do this thing seriously. What were some of the roadblocks or some of the difficulties that you had, not necessarily transitioning from, say, mainstream television, you know, network TV to, you know, YouTube, but just in general, what were some of the things that came up that you remember being like, man, this is, this is harder than I might, might've thought it was. Well, honestly, I think the most confusing thing for me initially was understanding the monetization part was just trying to figure that out and stick within their guidelines. But also I have to be honest, like one of my sons helped me set up the page because I told him, I said, I'm going to start filming stuff on YouTube. Well, and then I did a live one night and I started getting all these, these chats that were different colors kept on coming up. And I, I didn't understand what it was. Well, my son had turned on super chat, so I didn't even understand what that was. I didn't know people could, you know, super chat money to ask questions and so forth. And it's funny because for the first so many chats, I was like, stop, stop sending me money. I don't know how to turn it off. I'm because it's never, YouTube was never about the money to us. It was about, hey, let's have some fun. Let's still do what we love doing and put it out there for all the people who want to see real investigations, not things blown out of proportion, not people talking about everything being a demon or, you know, possessed dolls or whatever, how real investigations go. And that's the reason we threw it out there. I didn't even know at first that it could generate income, that I was going to make and come off of it. So I was naive to it. I'd never messed around with YouTube before, except going online to watch clips of things like if I needed to figure out how to how to fix something or how to how to rebuild something. I love that. Yeah, my channel, my tutorial channel is just for those kind of people who are looking to get questions answered about technology. So I'm just glad that YouTube is still used for that. So the channel, you know, after your name and it's called Unlocking the Unknown. What are the differences in the community building aspect? I would assume that, you know, being that you're famous for the TV show and then moving over to YouTube, how much of it was cross-pollinated? How much did you see the audience go from Ghost Hunters, the TV show, to now this YouTube thing? I mean, I would think as a fan of yours that people would be dying to just eat this stuff up. Like, what were the thoughts there? Well, honestly, it wasn't hard because initially I just posted a few comments on Facebook saying, hey, I'm posting some stuff on YouTube now. And a lot of that community started heading right over there. I think the biggest part was, you got to remember, my show started airing in 2004 or 2006. And, you know, a lot of my followers are a little older. They're, you know, they're not, they're not the real YouTube crowd, though. That's changed quite drastically over the last year and a half, two years, because I've seen so many people convert over to YouTube. And a lot of people are getting away from, they're cutting the cord. They're getting away from the TV just because they're tired of the oversaturation of commercials or they're, or they're just tired of, you know, well, networks in general, to be honest with you, or the price of cable. So people are enjoying getting on and seeing fresh content, new content, the interaction. They love the interaction back and forth. I just did a live right before I was talking to you. And I mean, we had thousands of people in there interacting. And they love that. Because back when we started Ghost Hunters and social media really started taking off, we used to get on Twitter and we'd post, we'd comment with people on Twitter during the show. But now I can do it right as it's airing online. So and people love that. What are the differences in the filming of it? You know, you you and your friends and obviously you had full control of the show for the most part, other than kind of working with the networks and whatnot. But now that you're doing this YouTube thing, I mean, it really is your baby. So what are the differences in kind of the filming and the different aspects of getting an episode out? Well, I think the biggest thing that we had to get used to was we're filming each other, where I always had a camera guy, and my camera guy had been with me since the beginning of the show. So he knew his place. So he'd always be in his own position, out of the way getting us. But now when I'm walking around with my friends and we're recording each other, we got our microphones and we're recording each other, and then we bring it back and we start editing it, whether it's through Premiere or Final Cut. And I had a production company always handling that And I would take a look at the cuts and I would sign off on the cuts So now it pretty much it was getting used to us recording each other and then cutting those videos together because you take out that whole middleman. You got to remember, that's all it is, is the production company is just the middleman between you and the network because they're the ones filming it, editing it, and then I'm signing off on it. So it was just cutting out that middleman, becoming the editor, becoming the cameraman, becoming the sound guy, and putting that all together for people. Now that you are on YouTube and you've been doing it a while, what has surprised you the most about this side of the wall or whatever you want to call it, about just creating and having your own channel on YouTube? Well, if I had known YouTube would be as enjoyable as it has been, I probably would have started it 16, 17 years ago. Because honestly, it's just, it's pure freedom. It is. It's, you know, I do it around my schedule. If I don't want to put something up this week, I don't put something up this week. If I want to go and, you know, take off to Florida or California and film a bunch of locations and have them up in a couple weeks, I can. So it's honestly, like I said, just the ease of it. I would have started it 16, 17 years ago. And I probably should have. I would have amassed millions of followers. I mean, geez, on Facebook, on one of my pages, I have three million people. And another one, I have a million. So I would have amassed that on YouTube. But it's just been fun. And honestly, it's been fun building the community where a lot of times, again, on Facebook and stuff, the community is already there and they're large, building from the ground floor up. And I think that's been the most enjoyable are seeing all those people that keep on coming every week, all the new people that keep on coming. And I mean, just over the last week, we've had 5,000 new members and, you know, joining the community and starting to take part in things and asking their questions and connecting with others and just watching that community grow. Yeah, I think you are sitting on a goldmine. And I think that for sure, you know, if you would have done the YouTube thing during the span of the show as it was actively airing new episodes, I think that, as you mentioned, you would have amassed a really way larger audience than you did after the fact, obviously. With that being said, there's no better time than the present. And I think it's really amazing that people like you are, you know, I've had a good many folks from mainstream television and movies and things of that nature come on this podcast. and I remember early on I had this young guy who he was an actor and he was getting famous because he was in the show Stranger Things and I had him on and he started a YouTube channel and he said, man, if I realized it would have been like this, I probably would have done more YouTube and less acting. And so knowing that the freedom is there. Now, let me ask you this, what does your day-to-day look like as far as how do you make sure you're able to get the show released? How much are you outsourcing? How much are you doing yourself? Walk us through the full process of getting one of the big ticket, big tentpole videos out on the channel? We haven't outsourced anything. We've done it ourselves. And we've had options about outsourcing. I've talked with different editors. And that's a possibility because that would allow, me doing it like that would allow me the ability to film more content. And so that's highly possible of where I'm going to go to. So that way I'm outsourcing and I'm just uploading the raw footage and let an editor start putting it together and signing off on it, that gives me the ability to not have a week downtime to put an episode together. Instead, I'm out filming and just keep on doing that. And that would allow more and more content to be put out there. So that's probably the path we're going to eventually go to, just because, again, it allows us to go out and film more locations and just check out more places and put up more member content and so forth, which is what people want. They want to consume that. They want to consume all that stuff we can get together for them. I've already asked you this off air, but I want to ask you now on the podcast because I know people are going to want to know this. How do you get places to go into? So when you talk about the paranormal and you talk about visiting, whether it be a house or a motel or ancient castle, whatever it may be, how are these people? They obviously know who you are. So what is that process like of getting a running list of locations to go film? Well, the nice thing is, again, you're right. People know who I am. And I've been doing this for so long. And they know the way I come at the field. And they know that I deal with the utmost respect. So the TAPS website, the Atlantic Paranormal Society, I mean, that website averages anywhere from 50 to 80 million views per year. and we'll get approximately about a thousand case requests within over the course of two to three days. So we have endless places that we can film. And if we're going to an area and there's a location that I want to check out or a checkout in the past on Ghost Hunters, or now I want to film for YouTube, I'll just shoot an email, give a call. And a lot of times when they know it's, they realize it's me, they're like, they opened the door for us and allow us to come in and check it out. And I think that's great because I've built so many relationships over the last, the show for 20 plus years, but I've been in the field for over 30 years because I did this 15 years prior to the show. A lot of people don't realize that I helped out on everything from MTV's fear to scariest places on earth that existed 10 years prior to ghost hunters. So this is a field that I truly love. I've truly been involved in it. This hasn't been a field for fame or just to get my name out there. This is something that I've truly done for long before television and I'll do it long after television. So the niche of the paranormal, of the weird and wacky and the crazy stuff that goes on, YouTube has seen a resurgence, not a resurgence, but some of the most popular podcasts on all the major podcast players are about, you know, true crime or the paranormal, the legal stuff. I mean, there's humongous YouTube channels making hundreds of thousands of dollars a month that basically are just police cameras where they see kind of the dash cam footage and stuff like that. So people are obviously interested in this bizarre world of the paranormal. How are you able to connect with those people now on YouTube better? And now that you're kind of doing this thing outside of the network umbrella, Well, I think YouTube offers, it's a wide range of things. And the paranormal is also, it's a big umbrella. Because the word para is just a Greek word for beyond. So beyond the normal of what we're used to, paranormal. So there's this wide range of stuff. So you see a lot of the things out there of people blowing things out of proportion. Honestly, that's one of the biggest reasons why I decided I was going to stick with YouTube. because without people like me who look at things from a debunking standpoint or a point where we're looking for real evidence, then all you have are these pages out there that want to make everything a demon. And that's not how it is. I've been in this field for over 30 years. We handle cases specifically for numerous religious organizations where we get sent in to write up preliminary reports and so-called demonic hauntings, possessions, 99.9% of those have nothing to do with the paranormal in general. And possessions are, you're talking about something that's 0.0001% of the field. That really doesn't happen. I mean, there's the rare, rare cases, but you're seeing these things where all these objects are haunted, all these dolls are haunted, they're hurting people. All these people are possessed. And that's not the fact. And I think that hurts the field, that severely hurts the field, because it takes away from the true investigators who are looking for real answers or the people who are truly having problems who are looking for somebody to help them. Because now all you're doing is you're taking their fear and you're amplifying it. Instead, you could be there showing them truly what's going on, how to handle this situation, how to coexist, how to not be scared in their home, how their children can go to bed at night and feel safe. And so without people like me looking for the truth, all we're going to have are people who just want to blow things out of proportion and who are there for entertainment and clicks. Hey, if you're enjoying this conversation, do me a favor and subscribe to this podcast so you get notified every time we go live with a new episode. Also, we have some of the best services, in my opinion, for content creators. It starts with our mastermind group. Five, 10 bucks a month gets you in where you can communicate with other creators. Also, I release a bite podcast It just a monologue recording about a topic or a subject that helps creators every week to that mastermind group Then we have our YouTube channel reviews or audits where I go in for about six to eight minutes and I do a screen recording on your channel telling you where I think you should be spending your time to see the best results on your channel. And then if you really want to take it to the next level, I offer one-on-one coaching for creators. I love getting to know you guys. I love helping you take your channel from where it is now to where I know it can be in the future. And then a couple of other things. We have an email newsletter if you want to keep up with me and my crazy family life and how I run my business. And then we also have something called the Entrepreneur's Toolkit, where it's a running list on a spreadsheet of everything ever mentioned from all of the guests in the history of this podcast. With that said, back to the show. Yeah, I think that is why you've built such an authority over time, right? And because the trust that people have in you that you're not out for clicks and for views, you're out for the truth, but you're also, I mean, it is entertaining. I mean, it is entertainment. You know, the Ghost Hunters show was entertaining because all of the different places that you guys would go. And so I really appreciate you saying that. Now, let's transition just a bit to monetization. You know, you have a premium group, you offer memberships on the YouTube channel, you know, you obviously did well on the show. And so this this isn't something you're trying to do to get rich or richer. You're doing this because you love the field. You love what you're doing. You love the topic you're talking about. But you have to make money. You have to make ends meet and you can't be losing and throwing money at the void. So with that being the case, how are you monetizing this channel? Give us the whole gambit of what you're doing. Well, honestly, the least thing we've been concerned about has been making money. So I've done very well for myself. Again, you know, our show is a show that's kickstarted the genre of television. And we air on numerous streaming platforms. We're in syndication. And I mean, of course, I own a piece of all that, our fast channels and all that stuff. So I have income coming in. YouTube, the whole idea behind it was, all right, well, if we can get to a point where it's covering our expenses for us to go out and do this, so I'm not pulling from the bank, that'd be great. And we're pretty much there. You know, are we making a killing? No. Could we be making more? 100%. But I have to be honest. I go in most of the time when we put videos up, I go in and I remove 50% of the ads that YouTube puts in there just because I feel it's so, you know, I don't want people to have an ad every 30 or 60 seconds. It drives me crazy. And does that affect my bottom line? Yeah, you know as well as I do that that affects my bottom line. But that's not what this has ever been about. But don't get me wrong. Like I said, it's great if it's picking up the tab on our travel expenses and things like that. And the majority of the time it does. But we've been lucky enough that we're in a place in our life that YouTube isn't our financial survival. It's just an added benefit. And it allows us the ability to get out there and do stuff. And it covers those expenses for us. So again, is there ways that we could generate that and make that very different? Yeah, because there's a lot of people out there making a lot of money online, but that's their whole existence. That's what they have to do. And if they stop making content, they stop making money. I'm not in that predicament, but I totally get it. I think that coming from that perspective and point of view gives you a lot of freedom that a lot of creators don't have, right? And I think that there's folks listening to this thinking, man, I wish I could be in that position. I'm not in that position, but it's good that Jason is. And there are a number of creators that are in that position. But I do think that if you are a new creator and you have a full time nine to five job and you're doing YouTube as a side hustle, seeing where it can go, if you can go at it with the mentality of if I make money, great. If I don't, great. it gives you a sense of just breaking free from that shackle, that chain of just knowing that you have to do it to survive or to provide or whatever it is. And so that power is a really big deal now. Yeah. And I think I might be slightly different than a lot because you got to remember it does. So I've been doing this show. I did the show for 20 years. And like I said, we're in syndication. We have fast channels, all these other things. Could I'm a plumber by trade. Could I have left that field? Yeah, I could have left that field 20 years ago, but I'm still a plumber by trade and I still work. I still work my job. So do I have to? No, I don't. I do it because what else am I going to do? Am I going to sit around 20? You know, it's funny because when I decided that we were going to pull the show from Sci-Fi Channel when we were with NBC, I remember sitting at the counter and I said to the wife, I'm like, you know what? I'm done. I'm not going to do this anymore. I'm I'm going to leave. She goes, and this, I was 40, 43 at the time. And she goes, you're 43. What are you going to do? I go, I have no idea. So we pulled the show from NBC and sci-fi. And I realized about a year into every morning, getting up, drinking my coffee at the counter, sitting at my computer, doing whatever. I realized all my friends still have jobs. And life gets pretty damn boring pretty quick. So that's when I ended up, I ended up going back to TV. Oh, I did nationally syndicated radio for a while. And then I ended up going back to TV and and here we are now. So this is one of those things where I can't sit around. You know, it's if I sit around, I'm going to get old fast. So exactly. So, you know, me just doing what I love to do, getting out there, seeing new places, meeting new people and meeting the fans. It's the same reason why for years I stopped doing conventions because, you know, it it became one of those things where I'd have a line of 5,000 people, shake a hand, do a picture, smile, move on. I'm starting to do conventions again, but I try to do smaller ones where I can have time to interact with people and talk and hear their thoughts and go from there. I'm dealing with engineers to work on different types of equipment for the field to try to advance that forward, because that's all it's ever been about is trying to advance this field and figure out what's truly happening. What do you think works on YouTube right now? I mean, if you want to talk about packaging, you want to talk about how you present it with storytelling. There's creators listening to this that are on all spectrums of the timeline for their channels. But what's working right now in 2026? Well, one thing I found with YouTube is that you need to you need to get attention and hold on to it quick. Where on a television show, you could start the television show off. You could start telling the story and, you know, they start, they want to hold those high points to the end. Well, in YouTube, a lot of times you want to have those high points in the beginning to at least show what's coming up and what to stay focused on. Because people's attention spans are really, they're a lot quicker than they used to be. It's what seems to work for us. And what I've found recently is that it's more like, all right, show some highlight clips in the very beginning and let them know some good parts are going to be coming up and they'll stay with you. But we like to tell the history, the true history of these places. And I think a lot of people really enjoy that. They like to know the true history of the location, give them a breakdown of that. They want to hear that story, but they also want to see those high points. They want to see what you're able to experience or what you're able to figure out. Were you able to debunk it? Were you able to not? I mean, the list goes on and on. I think it's so fun talking to a person like you because the perspective that you have on YouTube is so different than mine. And there's still so many commonalities of like the answer that you just gave. You're exactly right. As far as niching down, like you talk about para and the paranormal being kind of this bigger umbrella and then there's sub niches within those. What would you say as far as the importance of having and knowing who your audience is on YouTube? Well, I think you need to know who your audience is and what they want to see, what they expect. But also, I've had the luxury that my audience has been following me for so long that they know what to expect. And I think that's important, that they know me, they know what I'm about, they know how I'm going to go about things, so they know what to expect. Now, from there, I need to readjust for some of the newer followers who are coming in who might not have seen my show, who might not have followed, you know, Taps and Ghost Hunters throughout the day. So I need to redesign certain aspects of what I'm filming to engage with them, to help them understand, you know, who I am, how I do things, and to keep them locked on and interested enough to stay with me through the episode. that way they'll come back for more. Let's talk about live streaming. What's that like, you know, being on television and having a prerecorded show that you know can be chopped up in all different types of ways But then you get on a live stream and you hit that record button Explain why you do it and the benefits that it had for your YouTube channel Again, TV, I got lucky because you'd probably remember every Halloween, I would do a six hour live show. So and that would be every Halloween. And I did that for years. So you get to the point where you realize, all right, I might say something when something's being recorded that I don't want to say during a live show because I can't edit that out. So I think that's the main. So I lock out that way because I'm already used to say if I say something, I've said it. And I can accept that. But, you know, it's definitely for those who aren't familiar with that aspect of it, it can be it can be highly stressful because you you got to watch what you say. You got to you got to be careful. You can't go. I mean, you can joke around with friends, but you don't you don't want to do that during a live event sometimes with things that are said, because a lot of times that'll come off wrong. You know, and and that's the thing. So or even when people are commenting on your live streams and you're reading the comments, you got to remember that text has no emotion. So they might say something like just earlier. Somebody had said something about me saying something to one of the females in the tap show. And the way they wrote it, I was like, I've never, I've never talked like that to any of the women who've been on my show. And then realized, OK, they were talking about this one episode where Donna had said something to me in a joking way. And I and I said something back to her about being the excuse the term, the taps bitch. And we were laughing about it. But I didn't understand that when he first when when the person first threw that question out there. I was like, whoa, hang on. You're you're saying I'm I'm speaking to people. So I think it's tough because text has no emotion. So you don't understand it. And a lot of times you got to give that extra second to really know what they're talking about. But just be prepared. I mean, when you say something and you're alive, there's no taking that back. No, no. I love, I think live streaming is a place to hone so many different skills. Not a lot of people can do it, though. Not a lot of people can do it. And I'll never forget early on in this podcast. This was almost 14 years ago. I was going out of town and I asked a gentleman to host the show for me. And I'll never forget. He called me on a vacation and he said, Dusty, I recorded the episode. I'm going to send you the link, but I'll be honest. I would appreciate it if you did not air this episode. He said, I thought this would be easy. And he said, I thought asking questions and recording and, you know, not everyone has that skill set, but if you learn to live stream, you learn to think on your feet. You learn to be interactive with your audience. There's so many benefits of live streaming, and it's so amazing to see someone like you who has kind of some chops from doing the show to come over to YouTube and do this. Well, and being able to do it on the live show, I think, was huge. But also the fact that I did nationally syndicated radio on 200 plus channels five days a week as well. So, again, you're live. You say something, you can't take it back, and you always need to remember that. And you need to remember that people from all walks of life are tuning in. And you got to take that into consideration. So honestly, I think over the years, I've really, I've, I've calmed down on the, in the person I am and just tried to understand that we're all, we're all just trying to do our best. And so I'll try to be the best version I can be of myself. So I got two more questions, one related to YouTube, one not. So the final question related to YouTube is what's next for you? Like, what are you planning? What are, what are, what are you working on and how do you hope to have it kind of continue to bolster the channel and grow the community? Well, we're working on, we're actually working on setting up some live investigations that will be interactive, very much like the Halloween lives that we did in the past, where people can communicate back and forth with us during the investigation, have live cameras rolling in different areas where people who are tuning in can actually be part of the investigation. If they see something, they can fill us in, they can let us know, we can head directly to those locations also get their take during the investigation. What kind of things do they want to see us do? What kind of questions should we ask and go from there? But I really would love to have it as very interactive as possible because that's what a lot of people want to do. I mean, and that's why a lot of our investigation will do a tour prior because some of these people who tune in are unable to get to these locations, whether it be financially or physically. So being able to show them these locations and allow them to do a walkthrough with us, it's great. It's great to hear how much they appreciate that and so forth. So now to really bring them into our investigation and get them involved and make them part of the investigation, I think, is where we're heading. All right. And my final question is this. I've been wanting to ask you this since you and I connected. Has there ever been a moment in the show, whether it be Ghost Hunters or one that you've done on YouTube, that you still think about today? Like something that happened or an event or a conversation or something you saw to where you still today have moments throughout the weeks or whatever where you're just like, man, that was bizarre. That just didn't make sense. Well, there's definitely a lot of those, whether it's paranormal or honestly, whether it's connecting with somebody who, a homeowner or something. I mean, we go to some homes that the investigations are tough because we went to a family's home, a mother and father who had lost their 12-year-old daughter. And suddenly, you know, the interaction with them. As a father, I've got six kids. So as a father, it tears my heart out to see what they've gone through. But being able to try to work with them and get them in a better place mentally, I mean, that means everything to me. Now, when it comes down to the paranormal, I mean, there's things. I mean, Eastern State Penitentiary, some wild things that happened. St. Augustine Lighthouse, one of the best pieces of evidence I think we've ever caught, where something went up the stairs, went all the way to the top in a matter of two to three seconds. And no person's going to be doing that. And whatever was up there leaned over the railing. We were able to catch it on camera, but it never set off the motion sensors. So we caught the shadow lean over the railing and look down at us, but it never set off the motion sensor. I mean, things like that leave you really scratching your head, trying to understand how it's possible. Now, will I ever figure it out? probably not. But you know what? As long as I play a little piece of the foundation of somebody who might solve it in the future, I think that's all that matters to me is that I helped and I played my part along the ride. Well, Jason, I, for one, am very glad and thankful that you've decided to do this YouTube thing and agreed to chat with me on this podcast. And it's one of my favorite things that I get to do personally. I've had many famous people on the podcast, but the majority of people that come on the show are just normal creators who started from zero subscribers, and they've gotten some fame on the internet. You are kind of from both worlds. You're from network television, and now you're, you know, amassing a large audience here on YouTube. And I'm so thankful that you're so open with me with these answers. And I really hope that you have the continued success and I hope your YouTube channel continues to grow. And I know my audience is very appreciative to hear the insights that you were able to share with us today. Well, I just thank you for taking the time out of your day to talk to me. And I look forward to talking to you again in the future as we build this community more and more. Awesome. Thanks, Jason. Thank you. And that's a wrap on this week's episode of the podcast. Wow, what a great episode. Man, I had so much fun just geeking out with Jason about his career on Ghost Hunters, and it was just a wonderful, insightful conversation. And speaking of insightful, I think we have some of the best tools in the market and some of the best offerings for creators. So if you haven't already, please do me a favor. Look in the show notes of this episode and see which one might fit you and where you are right now in the season of your YouTube journey. Everything from just a YouTube channel review, being a part of the creator mastermind group, or maybe you want to get one-on-one coaching and sit down personally with me. All of those things are linked down below. Don't forget to subscribe that way you know when we go live with new episodes, and we'll talk to you next time.