From Pain to Peace

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human. Take my money. You, you and you. Gather in the name of chicken for thou shalt not eat alone. The KFC popcorn bucket. 60 pieces for $5.99. Get the deal. Believe in chicken. Available until 17th of May. Subject to availability. Participating restaurants only. Not available on delivery. See website for full season sees. Hi Amber. Hi Lola. Welcome to an unlikely affair. Hi babes, it is Lola Kent with my ride or die, Amber Childers via Zoom. I miss you so much. I can't even stand it. Is that weird? I'm going through something where like I really miss people that are far away. Oh, no, it's not weird. I miss you too. And I miss Ocean and I miss Sosa. Actually, I had a moment, Amber, where I looked at Sosa because she wanted to see what was going on on the phone. She was a year and a half, you know, it's not like she's sitting there being like, well, I don't have siblings. She just wanted to know what was going on, you know. Ocean said, I'm talking to my sisters and like took the phone and like walked away from Sosa. And I looked at Sosa with like such a heavy heart. And I'm like, I feel like I need to give you a sibling because I don't want you to feel like you don't have anybody, like your sister has you, but she also has another group on the other side and you're just kind of flying solo where it's like, hi, I'm as good as it gets, babe. I don't know. That's not that's not she's not even thinking about that. And I know you are. But that's like, that's like, no, I think that's guilt. That's just you feeling guilty that they have separate. Quote, like fathers. And I think a lot of women can relate to that. And maybe like when they get into a second relationship, they have another child or two, right? But that's up to you. I personally feel that like. You do a great job of just helping everybody feel like family. And that's our like responsibility. You and I specifically, like I feel a deep responsibility to make sure even when things were really tough with us, I felt a deep responsibility to make sure that these girls stay connected on a level because I have sisters and I know how deeply I rely on them at times in my life. And I wanted to make sure that that happened with Ocean. And Sosa is going to be great. She's going to feel so loved. There's so much love in that house. She's never going to feel like, I don't know, I feel like your kids always end up finding some way to be disappointed with you when you when you know, when you get older. But don't worry about it. She's fine. Unless you really want to, unless you were looking for an excuse to have another baby, that's a whole other conversation. The door still is still is not closed on on another baby. But right now I'm tired. I'm very tired. And I want to go back to what you just said about kind of creating that, that household where, you know, even when you and I were not getting along, because there were, you know, deep wounds that I think even during those moments, you and I, whether we've vocalized it to each other, it didn't matter because I know that deep down in our hearts, it was like, we knew what the grander purpose was and what was going to stand the test of time, which is the relationship that you and I had to incubate for our kids. Even when I was still with that person, I think we both knew, you know, the girls coming over and spending time with Ocean. And it was very short lived, right? Ocean was seven months when I left the relationship. So you and I really had to rise to the occasion. And when, when we started communicating and, and I made the amends, I have to know what was, what was going through your head because we can talk about the girls and them seeing each other, but we knew they were going to see each other because we shared custody with our ex, both of us. When did you feel like you fully let your guard down and wanted to be open with me? Do you remember? I think there was a couple of moments because it was a big trusting for me, right? I feel like I've always had issues trusting women in general, even before you. Middle school, high school. Okay, so it dates way beyond when you met him. Correct, correct. I think one of the first things that pops into my mind is when you and I had, it was a holiday party. I made the time that I had my jewelry company was up and running. I, oh my God, I remember this so well. Okay, keep going. And it meant so much that you came, whether you wanted to be there and I have no idea like how that even transpired. Did I come solo or did he come with me? No, he, he came. And I think the more I talked to you and really got to know you separate of him as a person, I was like, I freaking like her. She's kind of cool. Like I think I'm judging her way too much based on this, the situation. And I, I feel like, and I can't believe I'm going to say this. It's so funny, but I feel like you set me free of all my past issues that I've ever had with women. Like all like, it's like you broke me to, to, to build my confidence backed up to trust another woman again. Wow. Do you know how crazy that sounds? It sounds nuts. And I don't know. It has to be like, it's just this intuition, this knowing, like when I sit down with you to have sushi that one day, and I'll never forget, I actually still have it. You brought me a gift. I was like, this is so fucking bizarre, but I really like her for some reason. I cannot believe that I'm saying that I actually like my ex-husband's mistress. No, that is so good. It's so good. I don't know why, but it just, it just happens. And now you just get this feeling and, trust me, there were times that I really didn't like you. And I think that staying in that pain was a lot more comforting. Staying angry with you was a lot more comforting and familiar than getting uncomfortable and growing with you. I, I completely, that resonates with me because even, even now, I feel so much more comfortable in conflict than I do in peace and love. Now I, I'm definitely, we are reaching that point of me feeling comfortable with being peaceful and loved and all of the things and giving love and steering clear of like, I don't want to feel the yucky toxicity and picking a fight. I do have to battle those moments, but I do relate to you saying it felt familiar to stay in the pain. And I say this often when people talk about relationships, whether it's friendships, intimate partners, when they say, uh, you know, I don't understand this person's unhappy, why did they not leave? And it's like, you don't understand what it feels like to become comfortable when something is your normal, even though maybe deep down, you know, that happiness lies elsewhere outside of what you're in. It's terrifying because when you wake up and this is your normal, you know, the drill. And I feel like with, I, I obviously know why you didn't like me in those moments. I cannot actually, I know exactly why I didn't like you. We've talked about this. I felt that you were that person who gave him things that I had not given him yet, which was children. And I, now that I have kids, I know that feeling of like, I love my kids, but, and granted this person that we're talking about is incapable of love. But I know now that if I were to venture into dating someone who had kids with someone else, now that I have children, it's fully possible to break free of the mother of your children or father of your children and separate your kids from the person who produced them. Right? Like that's over. You may be grateful for the person that gave you the kids, but that's not the ultimate tie. If I'm making any sense, which is why I didn't like you because I was like, there's a tie that he has with this woman that I have not at the time fulfilled. And I, and again, you were a talented woman. You were beautiful, poised, and I just, I felt very insecure about the whole thing. I couldn't give anyone a reason why I didn't like you other than I think it was deep rooted jealousy. As I get older, I think I can admit those things. And I've had, I've had many friendships in my lifetime. I keep a very tight circle. And as we get older, we're both in our mid approaching late thirties. Jesus. I love that. I always say I'm okay to age. And then I look at my face and I'm like, what is this fucking new wrinklin' sunspot? I'm gonna lose my goddamn mind. But I don't know that we are supposed to like be gathering new friends in our thirties. I think we're supposed to be cutting out and forming our tight little circle. I think friendship in your twenties is very different in your thirties. When you have a friendship in your twenties, it's based on proximity, your kids go to school, who you know, like there's all of these things that play into its convenience, right? I feel like convenience is the key like people that you work with. And then when life starts happening in your thirties, it's more of you have less time. Okay, so if I have less time, this is me speaking for myself. When I have friendships, it's like, okay, is this friendship intentional? What does this friendship mean to me? Now in my life, I want really intentional, meaningful friendships. And if that means I just have two friends, that means I have two friends. And by the way, it's a lot of work having friends in your thirties. You have to go out of your way to stop what you're doing and say, okay, I'm gonna check in on this friend today or okay, now I'm gonna make time to go sit down with my friend for an hour and a half and help her through something, whatever it is. It's like, I want meaningful friendships now. You know, I, there was a point in time where you and I, when we did connect, I had left our ex, we were, you and I were communicating pretty frequently, but it was about the same thing, right? We can all assume what that one thing was. And as time passed, you and I would call each other randomly and soon the conversations became mostly about him, but other things. Then they became a little bit about him and mostly about other things. I would say at this point in time, it's mostly about other things. Yes, 100% at this point, at this stage in the game. And this is how I know when I am digging a friendship, when I leave that person or hang up the phone or I'm texting them, the interaction leaves me with my cup full. I don't leave feeling badly, I don't leave going, oh, I wish I wouldn't have said that or what was that look on their face. I leave feeling like I have been revived. And that's what it's supposed to be about. And there, there was a lot of like online chatter for a moment that I had no friends, right? But I must be this horrendous person because I don't have a lot of friends. Fine, whatever, say what you want. It is so by design and strategic. I find the more people, the more friendships that you allow into your life, you open yourself up for a tremendous amount of liability, which I cannot have. And I did that. I did that, Amber. I, this was in the last, you know, one to two years where I was like, damn, my social calendar is pretty full. I've never had it like this. Like I've got, I've got some friends. And in a matter of months, and you were there, you watched it. I was like, this is why this is why you don't let people in like this. And I'm grateful that people show who they are. And by the way, they're not bad people. I'm not a bad person. We just don't mesh. And I'm glad I found out now, the way you move is different from how I move. We just, we're not in alignment. For me, I don't think it needs to be some big conversation. I have discovered you no longer fill my cup. So like wish you the best. And you're on your way. I like having a tight group of people around me. Of course. I mean, it's emotional safety. That's what friendship is. It's very different. Oh my God, I love that you just said that. Emotional safety. Keep going. Tell me more, baby. I know that is the big O for me, emotional safety. Yeah, I don't, for me, I don't want a perfect friendship. I just want something that's real. And if that means that like we're going to have a disagreement, I know a true friendship is going to be able to get through that disagreement in a peaceful way, right? Yeah. I feel emotionally safe enough with you to say, I didn't like that. I'm like really kind of hurt my feelings or like, I don't know. I feel safe with you because I know you'll be able to self reflect and be able to come forward and say, you know what, you're right. Or maybe you need a beat. Some friendships, they need to take breaks and that's okay. And some French friendships will come back together a year or two years later. I've gone through friendships that have broken up and it literally has crushed me more than a romantic breakup because it hurts because there's so much more, it's like, it's like my like, we're sisters, right? And it's just a different level. I feel like with romantic breakups, there's rules, there's labels, there's endings and when friendships just like shift and disappear, it really hurts for me. It really hurts me. I think it hurts way worse than a romantic relationship ending. I think with you and I, I think we started backwards. We started up with a breakup and then, you know what I mean? We've had this reverse friendship because it killed me at times. I'm like, I don't understand why we can't just get along. I just didn't understand. I'm like, I'm trying to come forward and be open-minded and because again, staying in the pain, like, here's the thing about betrayal. It could transform you or you could stay stuck and I knew that was up to me. And so like in that beginning, I wanted it so bad, but I wasn't ready just to be free. I wasn't ready to be free, but now I feel so free with you. Like I, when you and I had a conversation when I was flying home yesterday, I mean, we're just on the same frequency. It's not always going to be like that, but I know that we've been through enough that we'll always find our way back to each other. What a scream. We installed telephone wires across rural Britain over a century ago and you're still paying to use them for your broadband today. If it ain't broke, what? Stop. Your days of selling phone age broadband are over. Plast, I've spilled the beans. Upgrade to 100% full fiber, giga clear, faster broadband for rural Britain from only 19 pounds a month. Price may rise during contract, TCCs apply, check availability at gigaclear.com. We had a moment in San Francisco where I think I had said something and I noticed your energy kind of shift and I said to you, I was like, am I being, I feel like I'm trying to be funny, but I feel like it's hurting your feelings and you were like, Lala, if you go too far, I will make sure that I tell you. And even on this podcast, there was a clip that was cut and I remember saying, I forgot who our guests were, but I said her ex, I don't claim him, he's, and I noticed this shift on your face and I was like, I'm never going to say that again. Because even if she says like, it's funny, it's not too far, her face is telling me that she doesn't like it. No, that's telling you I need more Botox. No, it wasn't about that. It was your eyes shifted and I was like, there was like a little bit of sadness. I'm not going to say that anymore. It like broke my heart. I don't know why that just makes me feel emotional. I have no idea why. Which part? All of it. Because it didn't hurt. Nothing hurt. Like, again, I will let you know if something ever hurts my feelings, but it's like they say in a relationship, you have to pick and choose your battles. And that's what we have to do. Like in life with our kids, with romantically, with our friendships, in those moments where you think especially in San Francisco, that had nothing to do with you and more of like my own personal like a reflection of, that doesn't bother me, but something else is coming up for me. It was like, I had to peel back the layers of what it was and it was not you at all. It was like, why do I feel this way? Because there's maybe, maybe there was some cutting truth to it. Maybe, but at the same time, you're a grown woman who can work through those things. And if you needed my, if it was like an onion and we needed to peel back layers, I don't ever want to add to someone going through internal conflict, right? And we always, as women, when we're in relationships, it's like the classic like, yeah, go out and have fun, baby. And then he goes out and has fun and you're mad about it. And it's like, it's because I want you to read my fucking mind. Women are good together, I think, because I can look at you and maybe what I'm saying is not affecting you, but it's deeper than that. So my job in that moment is to read your face, the energy of the room shifts, and I go, whatever I've said, could have just added to something that she's already dealing with, not on my watch. I don't want to do that because I know that I wouldn't want someone to do that to me. So there's that. We're so, you and I are like, without the intimacy, obviously we haven't hooked up. But we are like girlfriend and girlfriend. I'm telling you, it's just so incredible how far we have come because I have friends who were not in situations like the two of us, right? I'm a pretty trusting person, but after shit went left with the person that we were both with, I didn't trust anybody. I trusted nobody. I had lost faith in humanity. But there was something about every time your name popped up on my phone, that it was, it got easier and easier with every single text and phone call to say, I am safe with this person because you knew better than anybody. You knew way better than me. I didn't know him at all. You knew him like the back of your hand. You knew the patterns. There were things that would happen and you would go, oh, he's going through this right now. And like clockwork, that's what was happening. And then like I said, over time, we started talking about, you know, the new guy you were dating, or I'm having trouble with Ocean with this. And it, it, it was like I blinked. I can't pinpoint the moment where I was like, this girl is like my soulmate. Like we're friends. We're going to work through everything that comes our way. The stakes are high because we are our children or sisters. But I cannot remember that groundbreaking moment of like, I trust her. It just kind of happened for me. I love that. Right? Yeah. I do too, because there's nothing, I have such, I'm like happier than I've ever been in my whole life. And I think you probably know why, like a little bit. Of course I know why. But also my friendships are like, they're right where I want them to be. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that there's a higher power out there that just is orchestrating all of this. Yeah. I do. It's like people come in and out of your lives. What is the hardest, would you say, friendship breakup you've had as an adult? Katie Maloney. That was the hardest. And it, there, I had to do a lot of work with my sponsor. And I've shared this on the podcast and I went through a lot of anger, a lot of resentment, a lot of sadness. You know, when there's just an influx of emotions and you can't quite wrap your mind around all of them at once. Yeah. When we were filming our show and shit got very, very real, you know, and it was always real. And we were filming a reality show and when cameras were up, we were the same as when cameras were down. We were not performing for anybody. And it was a wonderful time in my life, beautiful experience. But then shit got real where you must pick a side. And I understand that. I, I asked people to do that for me. So when the roles were reversed, and I'm trying to deal with all of the other emotions that I'm going through with my ex, but I'm trying to also be there for somebody else. It just got very confusing for me. And at the reunion, the final season, I brought something up that, that Katie believed was between just the two of us. It doesn't matter what my perspective is, Amber. No matter what my perspective is, bottom line is your feelings to you are fact. If I did something, I could have a completely different intention, but it made you feel a certain way, right? That is a fact. I made her feel like she had been betrayed. And so when I wanted to loop on, but that's not how it happened. From my perspective, that's not how it happened. I was in this vicious cycle of looping and it's like, that's not how it fucking happened. That's not how it fucking happened. And then I go to my sponsor and I was like, here's the deal. I have been looping on this for over a year now. I cannot shake it. I feel like I'm wearing a scarlet letter. I want people to know the truth, but I also want to just hide in a hole and everyone forget about me and I want everyone to shut the fuck up. And I just want to be over it. And she broke it down so simply. If we don't keep our side of the street clean, we are on the brink of a relapse, la, la. That is what will happen to you. If you continue circling the drain with this, it doesn't matter what your perspective is. We have to own our part, how we made someone feel, and we have to release it. I worked on a text message to her and sat on it for months. And every time I would tell my sponsor, I'm thinking about sending it today, she goes, how is it going to make you feel if she doesn't respond? I was like, oh, I'll be pissed. I fucking worked hard on this and I put my heart into it. And she goes, you're not ready to send it then. You have to mean it so deeply to your core that when you send it, you expect nothing back, not a thing. And finally one day I got to that place where I was like, I am completely content with the way things are right now. And if I don't hear back, it doesn't matter because I still mean, I still mean what I'm saying in this message. And I sent it off. I did not hear back and that is totally fine. I am totally content with that. But that was, that was a brutal friendship breakup. Because during the hardest time of my life, the breakup and then going into film season 10, which was just my life, right? Because Katie was my best friend. So we were just doing what we've always done, but now on camera. And that friendship revived me. I felt safe. I felt seen. And it breaks my heart to know that in a matter of moments, I didn't make her feel the same. And it's fine. Yeah, you have to realize that you did what you felt was right. You owned your mistake. And you know what? She just needs time. I don't think it's ever going to come back. And that's fine. It's I'm content with that. The reason I'm crying is because life is just so there are times where we're just surviving. And you may act in a way that is out of character, but it can shift things. It can shift friendships. You could be in a happy marriage. And in one moment, your action can change everything. And you can sit and wish you would go back, wish you could go back, but you have to make peace with the fact that this was your journey. So although I missed that friendship deeply, and I know that there's no repairing it, you know, we've both moved on. When I look back on it, that whole situation, I could have moved a lot differently, but I didn't. And I have to be okay with that. Those moments when you cry like you just did, like you, you, you have to grieve the friendship, right? Yeah, that's part of like life is just even grieving these small things. You know, my situation with my really best friend for, I don't know, 13 years, 14 years, it's really hard. I mean, I have a letter. I wrote her a letter. This is the friend I know, right? This is the friend, you know, and that friendship meant the world to me because we went through so much together. And like you, I went to my sponsor and I was like, she did this and like, you know, and she said, Amber, stop, stop. Let's look at it from her perspective. What pain could you have caused her in that moment? And I did. And I did. And that, who that is hard to accept. Causing someone else pain for me is really hard to accept. And I feel extremely bad. And I, I wrote her and I'm going to make a mess to her in person. Have you made contact with her? I did. I did. I sent her a message and I was not expecting a response back. And you got one? Yeah. Wow. And I, I, I don't, I don't know how it's going to end. But I do owe her an apology for, for things that I said that could have hurt her and the people that she loved. And it wasn't okay. And I made a mistake. And that's what going through these friendships is, these are life lessons. Like we learn the hard way sometimes and there's no repair and the damage has been done. And then sometimes you can mend a friendship and, and you come back stronger, right? We didn't have a great friendship. Now I'm sitting across from you and we're sharing our lives together, right? I'm calling you because I'm having a meltdown about looping about whatever, you know, is going on in my life and I feel safe with you. And that, that, that is the most important thing is consistency and safety, right? I have to trust you. Yeah. And when you've, but, and I just feel like life does this to you. Like when people talk about, you know, they have trust issues or abandonment issues. I'm like, that is just life. I remember watching shrinking. Do you watch that show? And I think it was maybe season one or two and it's Harrison Ford sitting with Alice, the daughter of Jason Siegel. On the bench, the scene on the bench. Yes. And she's talking to him about, just like her mom dying, right? And how everyone gets to go out and party and they live normal lives. And like, I'm, you know, 16 and my mom died and he basically says to her, nobody gets out of this life unscathed. And I don't know why that's that like struck me so hard, but it's so true. I used to think that my trauma and what I had been through. And by the way, this is just recent that I've tried to get rid of it, but I'm like, I'm wearing this. This is like a badge of honor to me. It's like a metal, the shit that I've been through. Bitch, show me a person who hasn't been through shit. Now that person deserves the fucking metal. Show me a person who isn't traumatized by something. And that I will celebrate and go, you go because we're all fucked up. It's what life does. Yeah, life really hurts. Physically, look at my scars getting so much better. Emotionally, but it's funny you say that because I was on the airplane and I was thinking the same thing. Last night, literally the same thought was, you're not special. Now that's tough to swallow, right? You're not special. What makes you think you're so special? I know. Well, because we're the main character in our stories. Yeah. Like when you're telling someone a story and they just sit there and they're like, wow, that's crazy. And I'm like, no, that's not fucking crazy. That your jaw should be on the floor. Then you have to remind yourself, not that big a deal. Self pity can be a bitch. Yeah. Oh, I love to wallow in some self pity. And then I'm like, wait, what? This is not serving anyone right now. What am I doing? Shut the fuck up. Get over yourself. There's a reason you didn't get that role in Taylor Sheridan's show. Okay, but then they called you back like three months later for another role. Okay, you didn't get that role. Like stop with the self, but guess what? I could wake up tomorrow and I could be the star of a new show, baby. And I'm like, okay, no more self pity. You know what I mean? It's always something. Let me tell you what's going to blow your mind. Because when I thought about this, it blew my mind. How quickly shit changes. You sit there in your victim mentality of all of the things that you didn't get that part, right? It happened in a matter of seconds. You auditioned, got a call, you didn't get the part. I think of it this way. One night I had a dad. The next morning came and I no longer had a dad. That is how quickly shit can change. It can go really great, or it can go very badly. What are you going to do with the cards you were dealt? In anything, right? Every single day you're going to be given a new test, whether it's with your business, your partner, your friendships, things may go left. You're going to learn from things, you hope. But it is certainly not the last time that you're going to face that shit. I can sit here and be so upset about my friendship with Katie going south. And I learned a lot, right? But there's going to be a day that God decides to test me again. And I could blow up another friendship. I pray to God that that doesn't happen and that I use the tools. But there's no guarantee. And I could have another life altering experience where I go, I wish I would have done things differently. That will happen. Isn't it crazy? I don't know. I was so fucking wild. I just keep thinking the episode that we had with Chris Medina and he's like, you two are going to go your separate ways. I'm like, God damn it, are we going to get into a fight again? No, no, no, it's not happening. It's Amber. I know. But when he said that, I literally wrote him recently. I'm like, we need to talk. What does he mean by that? Yeah, yeah, no, I'm digesting. No, not about you and I, just about other life things. But I keep thinking of the time that he said that because I was watching the clip and I was like, gosh, what does that mean? We asked him, we asked him, we were like, wait a minute. And he was like, no, just professionally. I have fun with you. I know. Here's the thing though, you know, I love a psychic, but at the end of the day, we're in charge of our own shit. That's true. That is true. If it goes left, it's because you and I chose to have it go left. Yes. Not our friendship, but the separation. One goes left, one goes right. No, you're stuck with me. Are you out of your mind? I know. Like counting down the days until you get here. I put it in my Google calendar. Did you do one of those things on Instagram? Like where you do the countdown? Oh my gosh. No, but I should. I should. The 27th, we have 20 days. Seems like a lot. 20 days? What's the seventh? You coming on? When this airs, we'll have a little less than 20. Vegas. I forgot about Vegas. One week. One week. Yes, one week till Vegas. All right. You guys, thank you for listening to another episode of an unlikely affair. Amber, I love our unlikely affair. I was just going to say. Ride or die, baby. I love you. I love you too. I'll see you in Vegas and you guys will catch you next week for another episode of an unlikely affair. Bye. Bye, guys.