Unfinished Business: Part 1 (Ben Rimalower on RHOBH)

It's my favorite time of year, not just a new beginning for the cast of New Jersey. It is Way Day at Way Fair. From April 25th through the 27th, you can score the best deals in home, like up to 80% off, with free shipping on everything. Way Fair makes it easy to find exactly what you're looking for, from MyFaves, furniture into core, to home improvement and outdoor essentials. And it's all on sale during Way Day. In the best part, everything ships fast and free during Way Day. Plus, you can shop with Way Fair verified, a.k.a. your shortcut to the good stuff. I have Way Fair pieces throughout my apartment. Two of my favorites are the lighting fixtures in the living room and clothists, both totally different, as are the styles in each room. The living room, Parisian, mid-century modern, and the clothist pops of color. Way Fair makes it simple to narrow down exactly what works for your style and budget. And they have installation and assembly services available for a truly stress-free experience. Way Day is the sale to shop the best deals in home. We're talking up to 80% off, with fast and free shipping on everything. Head to WayFair.com April 25th through the 27th to shop Way Day. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Way Fair. Every style. Just call me a proctologist, because I see assholes every day. If loving Amanda is wrong... Wait, no! I fucked it up! God's kidding me. If hating Amanda is wrong, then I don't want to be right. Wait, I was so excited for you to love Amanda! Have we met? Technically, but we haven't talked about... You and I have not talked about Housewives in a minute. People need to know that I literally texted you. I said I was texting a therapist, or at the very least, a nail salon. I was like, I need to talk about Beverly Hills. Can you date me in? You know what? I'm the people's people's absolutely unlicensed, completely uncredentialed, nor should I ever be. Nonetheless, I'm arguably equally therapeutic, or more so. The thing that I love about self-producing this shit is, genuinely, someone could text me and say, I'd love to come on the pod. Can you do six hours in four minutes? And I would happily say yes. Nine times out of ten. Someone text... Because it happens, and I love it. I love it when I hear from a pal who's truth-telling. I love to pick apart and learn more about... I mean, we need it. It's catharsis. It's my favorite thing. So welcome back, one of my favorite people. You guys, it's Annie's Rolls. You know him as writer, performer, and director whose credits include Countess and Friends. The reason I cameoed, not that I was like background, doing deep background, on two season finales of Rony is because of this gentleman. So welcome back to the clothist, Ben Rimmelauer. Ben, how are we? I am good. I am very good. I'm very happy to be back in the clothist and super psyched to dive in with you. I did feel like you were setting me up a little bit with a trick. I honestly... A trick? I sort of didn't believe it, not in the fun way, but I didn't believe it when you were like, I want to talk about Beverly Hills. I said to myself, I have to hop on this opportunity because I don't remember the last friend, Bravo House. Ever brought up Beverly Hills. In a positive way as like the first thing. I mean, my brain right now is 97% summer house and like West Amanda updates. And then Atlanta just premiered, Rahori, which you need to watch. You would love Rahori. I mean, in fairness, as you're alluding to, I don't watch those shows. So in a way, it doesn't mean as much me saying, let's talk about Beverly Hills because probably if I were watching summer house and Rahori, I wouldn't be talking about Beverly Hills. But the thing with Rahori is it just like series premiered. You only have two episodes. You can say you're fully caught up. That's very doable. That is very enticing. If someone had said that to me when Salt Lake City was two episodes in, imagine where we'd be now. And honestly, if you watch... I'm not recommending this, but in order to entice you to get on the Atlanta bandwagon, I would recommend watching like a large part of last season. But if you only even watch last season's finale, start now because I think this season's gonna be really good. I know Atlanta is the best franchise and I've tried several times to like deep dive Atlanta. Because my whole thing with like Rahori and Salt Lake City and Potomac and like is that like I... It's like I don't watch the new Rony. Like I really just like the girls I met 15 years ago, 20 years ago, and I'm like not looking for like new people. But like in fairness, like Atlanta was there. So like what's my problem? But I just... It's like I really have always been a New York, Beverly Hills, New Jersey and the Ultimate Girls trips. Wow. So you didn't even do Salt Lake City? Didn't do Salt Lake City. Ben! Not man. Potomac. Potomac, not DC, not Dallas. So I don't know, you know, that's a whole separate thing. But it does diminish the value of me wanting to talk about Beverly Hills. That said, I'm the only person I know that has been like loving the... Now the latest episode, episode 17, I think was a terrible episode. But I am the only person that has been loving this season of Beverly Hills. Have you seen every episode of every season of Beverly Hills? Oh yeah. Even Lucy, Lucy, Apple, Fruity or whatever the fuck. Which was a low point in the series. It will never, I mean, trigger warning that we're talking about that fucking dog, but it will never make sense that that dog's name wasn't Lucy, Lucy, Apple, Juicy. How do you start it and not complete? It's really, it says a lot about what was wrong with that season. Right. It really does. I'm blaming Bender Pump Dogs. Those women. Bender Pump Dogs. That's like Trump's steaks. But more nutritious. Truly. Terrible. Listen, Ben, I can't wait to talk to you about Beverly Hills. I just, I mean, the fact that you said that you love BH, I was like, he needs to come on the pot immediately. He needs to come on the pot immediately because there's nothing I love more than someone who has a different take or like some, possibly a more evolved opinion. I doubt that. In the history of our conversations about that, that's why my record does not show very well. But I genuinely like to love it and to hear that you've heard, that you've seen every season, which honestly knowing you, I would expect, like I do think you're a completionist and I get the... To a fault. It's held me back in other shows. If I would be a little more chill about like, start in season, I probably could have a better resume of reality shows in my repertoire. Which again, and we'll get to BH, but like if you love Olds New York and you love essentially the idea of New Jersey, Rahori, there's like Mafia Association. How do I argue with two episodes here? What's the worst that happens? I don't like it. They sent me the screener for up three. I haven't started it yet and I am so excited. It's going to be like a palette cleanser, honestly. That sounds enjoyable. I mean, part of the reason I probably like the season of Beverly Hills is because I'm starved. New Jersey has been on a hiatus. New York has been, well, the original New York people have been gone. When was the last girls' trip they did? It was such that good one in St. Bart's where Luan, I thought was her best television work of her career with Kelly and- There was Thailand after that. Thailand, I don't think I watched Thailand. That's crazy. I got to watch it. What was the one with Luan and where they went to St. Bart's? It was all New York. Yeah, that was the first one. Oh, you mean- All New York. I'm so sorry I completely forgot about it. I'm so sorry I completely forgot. You're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that one, but that was a few years ago already. Yeah, it was. I've been kind of just like hungry for housewives with nothing. No wonder probably my standards are just low and that's why I like the season. I guess we do then have to talk about- I mean, I know that you're here to talk about Beverly Hills. I'm just trying to think of other things. Sure. I'll say something as a little like- Please. A little like orange sherbet. Yeah, I do it. Speaking of Countess and Friends, I was thinking about it, the original like first premiere of Countess and Friends, which you were at, the famous Giovanni moment with Darinda watching this latest episode of Beverly Hills because it was Rachel Zowe's birthday party in her backyard. At one point, she takes up the mic to talk to everybody there. She may have been using a microphone to talk to the people in her physical backyard, but we're hearing her on her body mic for the cameras, which is a very different thing. It didn't sound like somebody on a loudspeaker mic in a backyard. It sounded like someone talking on a television show. I just really clocked that. It reminded me of the Giovanni thing, which for the people as I think you will back me up, if you were at 54 below when Darinda was yelling Giovanni, you didn't hear it because it was just a loud screaming room. It was only when you were watching Housewives and Darinda had a body mic that it was like disruptive. So I would love to be like, yes, that's 100% what happened, except that the performance that I was at of Lou's show, which you so beautifully directed and conceived and originated and wrote, which I have to take the blame and credit for. But I was at the very first performance, which was the one that wasn't filmed. Then she filmed the second performance and then I went to the after show for the second performance, which is films for the show. So it looks like I had just gotten, but I actually was at the very first where I was next to the stage. Truth teller correcting the history. No, but I would love to be like, oh my God, I was there. But I remember the mechanics of watching. It is very strange to be inside of the bubble, especially for what I assume I didn't know was going to be like the finale episode. I think both times I didn't know it was going to be a finale episode, both Lou Cabaret related. Because they don't know at that point. They're still wrapping other stuff up and they got to see how it goes down. Although now in my head, I feel like I was at something and they did know it was a finale. I can't remember what it was for show. Some maybe sometimes they know. Yeah, sometimes they know. That was interesting though, because it's like, certainly you're seeing on TV a couple minutes and of course this party is like hours long, but there is something ever so slightly like monotonous anxiety inducing about having conversations with these people with cameras in front of you. And then you're essentially like at a cocktail party. I run out of things to say. I don't know what else to say to Sonia at a certain point. I do remember mispronouncing sh'dad and being like, g'sh'dad. And then I'm talking to a friend of hers who has more money than I'll ever understand. I just at a certain point it's like, listen, I don't know you people. I have nothing in common with you, but I friendly, whatever, blah, blah, blah. But then I'm like, and there are cameras here because ordinarily I would, I reshex it very quickly into any of these events. But with that, it's like you want to stay, you want to be a part of it. But also like you have to, you're a human person interacting with other human people with cameras watching you like it's wild. And I know it. I filmed a zillion trillion hours of Housewives with a mic up my ass, which with tiny, tiny percentage of did they use on the show? One time I wasn't mic'd, Bethany asks me to dance, gets me shitt talking about Luanne. Oh, they got me through Bethany's mic. That made it on the show. I don't remember this. I wasn't really shitt talking, but it was it was a Halloween event, one of many Halloween events that they were filming. And Luanne was running super late to perform. And Bethany was there super early and pissed she was waiting around. The other girls were running late too. And Bethany was like, Ben, let's dance like my worst nightmare because I hate dancing. I'm bad at dancing. But it was like being in junior high and the popular girl asks you to dance. You're like, and so we're like, and here I am like on the wrong beat, just being like, God, I hate my life. Why is this happening? All the cameras and like, and Bethany's like bitching about Luanne being laid. I'm like, oh, yeah, I don't know about it. And then she's like, well, I'll tell you, if I was trying to say sober, this is not the kind of environment that I would want to be in. And like just kind of like, I'm not Mike, right? I'm just like, well, you know, she's so reckless. And she's like, reckless. What do you mean? And I was like, well, let's just say if she doesn't say sober, it won't be from being overly cautious about it. Cut to we're like on the road doing the tour. And I'm getting Luanne's forwarding me every week. The it's like two weeks in advance, the episode, whenever like Universal Sense, you know, NBC Universal sends it to her. And so I'm like, as I've always been a housewife fan, I'm like, whoa, in my hotel room on that laptop, like watching it. And I'm like, fuck. Luckily, I don't think Luanne, she didn't clock it or she didn't care. She was busy, but like never like I was so sure I was like getting busted that day. Are you going to watch the Golden Life? Oh, fuck yes. Are you? I've been hating for it. But don't we think this is going to be like super? Listen, I would sort of love to be wrong, but don't we think it's going to be bad? Listen, I watched and just like that. Right. OK, I'm not here to. When one of my faves comes back, I'm not like I wish it came back in a good version. I'm just glad to have it. You don't like it. Don't watch. I'm glad they're making it. Most people are like, they should never have made that sequel. I'm like, you don't like the sequel. Turn it off. Some of us would like something more than nothing, you know? On my list of regrets, asterisk, social media related, when they announced and pretended that like they were making the choice to close out and just like that. And it very clearly wasn't HBO Max being like, we're done. We're done with the poop jokes. I posted on Instagram our long national nightmares over, not realizing that there was a private event being organized by Metta who showed up. Metta, I love you. I had been invited to several of their creator events. I actually remember someone telling me they were working on it and just like, but I forgot about it because it was like months prior. And then the following like a week, week and a half later, several of the people that I, you know, Kikid with at that event were meeting with SJP personally in the Hamptons and I was like that fucking, shut your mouth. Why? But it was so bad. I mean, that series finale, you cannot tell me you wanted to end on a finale that was like not even gutter humor, genuinely diarrhea humor. You can't tell me that's how you wanted to go out. Let's see the finale. If the show hadn't ended, they wouldn't have had that finale. I wish the show had gone on longer. Well, so do I for. No, I can't even say that. It was so, it was so bad, but I also don't want it to go out on that note. Listen, it only goes out on the note if you watch it. If you don't watch it, it ended when she came back from Paris or in the end of the first movie or the end of the second movie or whatever, you know, you decide, you decide. Television on demand. I mean, it was just a heartbreaker because we're literally sitting in the cloppest. I'm obsessed with Manolo Blanek, which. Clearly. This is a very Michael Patrick King coded environment. No, but it literally is very Carrie Bradshaw coded, which began my freshman year of college. I bought a pair of Manolo Blaneks, which I've always bought heavily on sale and I got them for like probably 75% off. And the salesman wrote at Bergdorf Goodman, he wrote me a thank you letter, but he inadvertently sent it to my billing address, which is my parents home. And East Greenwich, Rhode Island and Toby Galley called me, losing her fucking mind and was like, why are you getting a thank you card from Bergdorf Goodman? And I was like, don't worry about it, babe. Don't worry. A new addiction have begun. That's why you're my sister. I am all about a new beginning and not just because the real housewives of Rhode Island is finally here. It's taken me a minute to redesign my apartment into a space that truly feels like me. And the last step was decorating my bedroom. There are so many different options out there. It was hard to narrow things down, which is why I am so thankful for Boland Branch. Boland Branch creates everything you need to make your bed feel finished. Signature sheets, supportive pillows, cozy blankets and luxurious comforters all crafted from high quality organic materials. Most people building a new bed start with two sheets that's in a comforter and then layer in a waffle blanket for texture and extra comfort. The result is a bed that looks beautiful and feels amazing the moment you get into it. And that was absolutely my experience. I have the signature hem sheet set and the waffle bed blanket, both in the color pewter, which is this beautiful, almost light, creamy gray. And my sleep has gotten better. The room looks incredible. Tofu has actually claimed the blanket as his own. And PS, the sheets have gotten even softer after washing. Upgrade your sleep with Boland Branch. Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at Boland Branch.com slash Andes Girls with code Andes Girls. That's Boland Branch B O L L A N D branch.com slash Andes Girls and use code Andes Girls to unlock 15% off. Exclusions apply. 91% of dog parents say their pup is an important part of the family. And if you ask my mother, the Tobes Chester, 17 and a half year old Chishapoo is her favorite child. And if anyone gets being dog obsessed, it's Ollie. They're relentless about delivering the best food and experience for you and your dog. And they give you a way to check in on their health over and over and over again. There is so much that sets Ollie apart. Ollie's fresh recipes are developed by real chefs and backed by vet nutritionists. We're talking the best meals with the highest quality ingredients. And the experience is curated to your dog. From the moment you start your subscription, everything is tailored for your pup. The meals are perfectly portioned and you get a pup tainer and scoop for easy storing and serving. And I haven't even mentioned health check-ins through their app to check in on your dog's health with real vets. Chester is 17 and a half and obsessed with his food from Ollie. So much so that when he turns the corner after an afternoon walk with the Tobes, he is sprinting back to the house excited for his next meal. Get ready for both you and your pup to be obsessed. Head to ollie.com slash andy's girls and tell them about your dog and use code andy's girls to get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. Plus they offer an obsession guarantee. If you're not completely obsessed, you'll get your money back. That's O L L I E dot com slash andy's girls and enter code andy's girls to get 60% off your first box. Ollie, feed the obsession. Okay, listen, I guess we got to talk about it. Well, let me start by saying I've loved this season. Partly because I feel that Bose has really come into her own as one of my favorite new additions to a franchise ever. Like I don't even know what to compare it to, like not since like Sonya joined Rony or something. I just think I think Bose is like just really great on the show. Even I think Bose is so wise and has such great takes on things. But even when Bose is like dead wrong, I love the way she like sells it. Like I'm just like fully in love with Bose. I was never a Rachel Zoo person. I never saw her show. I never watched Brad. What was Brad's show called? Whatever. Brad, Brad world or something? Like so I only had like the most like gay third hand idea of Brad from like being cute and married to Gary Gennetti. And I wouldn't have even been able to pick Rachel Zoo out of a lineup. And I have loved her. I mean, she comes onto this series like she's always been there. And so that's two like big loves for me. I wasn't sure how I was going to feel because Lisa Rinna, I always liked her. I don't think she was ever my favorite, but she was always, you know, good TV. And I didn't hate Lisa Rinna and Garcella. I really liked. So I was like, this is going to be a very different show. And I really thought that like they were able to pick up that slack. There's been the, you know, lovely moments with Tilly and Kathy Hilton. And it's taken me all season to come to terms with the fact that. While I despise Amanda with a passion and find myself like talking back to the TV, like a crazy person. I think the reality for me is that I enjoy despising Amanda. I think that like she's, I think that I love to hate Amanda. And like it's weird because somebody like that in real life, I would just like not care about. I would just want to not be around because that sort of like cloying, like you're putting on airs, like transpire, nothing bothers me more than people that are like transparent. And it's like, I'm like, if you want to, I don't mind if you like fuck me over, but just like make me think it's like, you know, put the pill in the applesauce. Like I just like hate people that are so like. Graceless as Amanda is. And so I've just was so full of that feeling. But I think the reality is at the end of the season, part of the reason I've enjoyed the season is because I've enjoyed hating her. And the thing that's bothered me the most this season has been Kyle because now you and I have gone through this in the past with Teresa, where I was like a long time Teresa lover, long before I ever like actually got to know Teresa. But but just as a fan of the show, I was like a Teresa lover. And you know, you and I would talk about Housewives and you would just give me like a hundred brilliant undeniable reasons why like Teresa was like a garbage human being. And I absolutely should not take her part, you know. And I didn't really have a good defense. I just something about her charisma just sat right with me. And I just loved her. I didn't love to hate her. I just loved her. I often knew she was in the wrong, but I forgave her. And when it was possible to not see her as being in the wrong and give her weird benefit of the doubt or just hate other people because they were getting in the way of me loving Teresa, I would, you know. And obviously, Kyle Richards is very different from Teresa. But similarly, Kyle Richards was the sort of person whose charisma I like fell in love with in season one. And like I've rooted for Kyle the whole time, no matter what in every situation. Kyle feels unlike anybody else really on the Housewives, maybe because she's Jewish or not that she's been really Jewish by marriage, but like, you know, she converted. No, but I mean, like, but she didn't grow up. Like, I don't know. She's as Jewish as we are. Well, Kyle, what I mean to say is Kyle feels like someone I like am related to or grew up with or something, which is probably not from converting to Judaism. It's probably just living in LA. OK, OK. You know what I mean? She doesn't come from like a family like my family. I know a lot about her family. Interesting, unique case. She comes from sort of like a faux waspy, but like we're in it to win it. Hollywood, LA. I mean, my family's not Hollywood, but I'm from LA. Yeah. You know, I don't know. I just always, Kyle just felt like my people, like someone I'd be friends with, you know. And and I still not a Kyle hater, but. I'm in a crazy place right now about it because, like. The person that out of left field, not starting not not this week's episode, but the last supper in Italy, the person who just like out of left field when completely bonkers and acted like so horribly and like was three, you know, like, I just feel like everybody was just like, oh, it's going. And I know a lot of people hate to read and a lot of people think she's been acting crazy all along, and that's fair. But definitely like things went to a new level with Derit. So it kind of put my feelings, my frustration with Kyle on the back seat, because all season, basically, I felt for a few years now, even though I stayed loyal to Kyle, I felt like basically, Derit used to like kind of be willing to be subservient to Kyle on a certain level. And at some point, I don't know, four years ago, three years ago, and it's gradual, but there was like a turning point where Derit was kind of like, I'm not going to do that anymore. I'm not going to do that as much anymore. And, you know, it's not linear because things go back and forth. And but Derit definitely was like, at least, at least intentionally wanted to not do that anymore and said stuff like that. And Kyle seemed to never really get it. And just kind of the way she always kind of would take Derit for granted and not really pay attention to what Derit said and kind of steamroll over Derit. It literally just seemed like Derit would be like, I don't have to do what you say. And I'm not going to be your servant. Kyle was like, Oh, that's nice, honey. Like she really like it wasn't even a confrontation for so long because Kyle was just kind of like not hearing it. And then it seemed like it would just sort of start to get on Kyle's nerves, like a mosquito or something. She would suddenly just have like a weird kind of dawning awareness of like something's something's not going the way I want it to. And she would kind of like smack it down. And and then there were so Kyle, I think, would kind of lash out at Derit in these ways that were sort of small because Kyle was kind of not even really grasping what had changed inside of Derit. And then Derit, it was like a rebellious teenager because like Kyle would mostly just kind of ignore her or act the same and not acknowledge Derit's change. So once in a while when Kyle would just kind of snap at Derit, Derit would come back with like, you know, like ballistic missiles, like, oh, yeah. Like, you know, like someone like like like a teenager who's been holding all this in about what their parents have done their whole life that makes them not a teenager. You know, anyone like like she had decades of like like unresolved issues that she had to take out. So they'd have these weird lopsided fights where like Kyle would be really like stuck on some like petty minutiae that like honestly wasn't that big of a deal. She just kind of like wanted it to like stop being a problem in her face. And Derit like wanted to like work through these big things that Kyle was just blind to. And I really because I was loyal to Kyle and I've never been a Derit hater. I mean, I know she's kind of a joke in a lot of ways, but I've like sometimes enjoyed Derit and I've definitely never hated Derit. Sometimes, you know, I think it's funny when they're like when the trees will be like, like I was telling you earlier and they cut to like a black and white footage of them in a car and Derit's like clearly on like, you know, minute 29 of like a. You know, like I loved I don't I don't need Derit to be someone different than she is. I've enjoyed Derit the way she is. But so when they've had these conflicts, I think I even sort of in my own Kyle like way never took to read that seriously. So if Derit was mad at Kyle, I wasn't like, she's fighting with my fave. Kyle, I was just like, I had Derit, you know, and Kyle was not sensitive to Derit the way she responded. But I was just like forgiving Kyle anything. And what I'm trying to say is it never caused a crisis of loyalty for me when they would have this ongoing conflict. But somehow this season, it's boiled to the point where Kyle's tap realized that Derit is like mad at her or Derit has gotten to the point where she no longer takes almost any of Kyle's like, I don't even want to say shit, but you know, just guff, you know, she just is. Or even when Kyle's not even doing anything wrong, Derit's like looking for a fight with Kyle and Kyle, because she has zero tolerance for anything from Derit, because she thinks Derit's like not like on her level or something. Kyle was just like shows to side with Amanda. I think for no other reason than to be at war with Derit. And I really felt like the one thing that was like the golden rule of the season was that Amanda sucks and we all agree. It doesn't matter. You know, maybe you can be Rachel Zoo and be sort of generous about it. Or you can be sudden, kind of like opportunistically going in on it. Or you can be, you know, kind of like Bose and Erica, like in their own way. It's just kind of like ripping her to shreds behind her back. You know, there's different ways to do it. But it was crazy to me that Kyle was taking her side. It sometimes under the guise of like being nice as like, you know, the elder statesperson on the show, like with the new cast member, but not really plausibly that way and so transparently just to like fuck, you know, stick it to Derit and then it just put me in a position where I was like, this is, you know, when I was like hating Amanda with a passion and not even knowing how much I was enjoying Amanda. And so I was like, it's like Kyle's asking her fans to choose between their love for her or their hate for Amanda. And I was like, I'm sorry, Kyle, if you put me in that position, I'm going to choose my hate for Amanda. And I and I really just kept feeling that way. And like it and it would be one thing if like Kyle had been a little more like in the real world, like maybe she could be kind and supportive of Amanda, but like not sort of like pretend that Amanda wasn't as obnoxious and cheesy as she was. But Kyle was really and then it was so convenient that like the lucky ladies got to be like in the Hamptons while like the B list had to be stuck at that manifestation, you know, brunch. And so it seems like Kyle just kind of got to like skate around even like some of the worst of Amanda, but it was still out in the open. And so that just like really annoyed me. So I was really coming from that place up until the last separate episode where I thought to reach just like went off the deep end. Like it's one thing for her to have her like weird relationship with Kyle. And it's like one thing for her to fight with Sutton because Sutton is sort of like I mean Sutton said that thing to her was it last year about like pick on someone whose wallet is the right side, which was I mean, Sutton's almost kind of in a weird way like the Ramona of the show. So like in some ways I will like come or like and in a way she's almost more likable than Ramona. I mean, Ramona is sort of more fun. But Sutton, even though she said that horrible thing, she's it's so obvious all the time that all Sutton wants is to be loved that she kind of doesn't really have any teeth in her bite, you know, but like. But that was so gross. But nonetheless, like you kind of just know Sutton just wants to be friends with everybody and she's just taking stabs in the dark and she's kind of like sloppy and bad at it or whatever. I'm not like some Sutton defender, but but I could forget I could treat fighting with Kyle, they've got their thing to eat fighting with Sutton. Like it's fair, you know. But she's first of all seems to be spiraling in some crazy thing because she acts like Kyle like Kyle's turned everyone against her when like some of the people are very much like on her side or at least like very much like not against her. Rachel Bose. Yeah, exactly. So it's like a little bit. Not only like playing the victim in this weird way, but like also just she's fighting a battle that's not the real battle. Like she's she actually she could do better and she could come across better if she. Took stock of her own position and her allies because Doreet is not the hated person of the season, although she kind of made herself into that on that episode. The thing with Erica was so unlikeable the way she fought with Erica at that supper. I mean, I don't really buy Erica's tears after the fact, but like Erica knows how to play the scene, you know, and Erica is like she did what she had to do to respect. But like I wasn't like poor Erica, but still I thought Kyle Doreet looked like an asshole and Erica looked great in the fight. And when Erica like laid into her, I was just like, yeah, I mean, I was like dancing around my apartment. I was I thought that was one of the most thrilling moments I've ever seen on Housewives. Now, again, why did it what I've recently seen a flashback of like the trip with like like Amsterdam and stuff? Was that on the episode? Did they they might have done they did a couple flashes to Sutton fucking up and then maybe some stuff with yeah, they did to Kyle saying that she's defended Drape before, including a Coke in the bathroom. So it does feel crazy to look back at those high moments in the glory days of Eileen Davidson and everything to think like this is thrilling television just because like Erica read her to filth. But like, you know, we've seen like Lisa Rinne break a bottle. Like we've seen thrilling television. Maybe I'm just I have got low standards. I'm only watching this right now. Nonetheless, I was like a very excited when Erica did that. So but I just thought Dariit was so crazy in the supper that it kind of upstaged the whole season, like it made me reconsider my like passionate hatred for Amanda. I went from being like fucking bitch. I hope she cries. I hope they're all I was like, I hope they all stand in a circle and spit in her face. I hope she leaves the season early. I hope she retires from public life to now I'm like, I love to hate her. I hope she's back next season. And I think it's all just because Dariit went so crazy. OK, so there's a lot here. Thank you. This is literally my therapy session. I do a monologue and then my therapist's like, let me tell you what's what. There's a lot here to unpack. I do almost already consider our episode of Andy's Girls to be a lost episode because I'm going to say some things that probably won't make sense. And like if you have listened to A.G. Maybe it will. And I watched the last supper episode, I want to say twice. I watched this recent episode where recording this what day of the week is it? Friday, I watched it this morning and right when you got here. Terrible episode. I'm sorry you watched that twice. Not a great episode, but sort of a clarifying episode in a way that I don't know. You and I, we might have different perspectives on it, which is my preferred conversation, always, always, always, starting with maybe one of the points that you made, not the central tenant, but one that I was thinking when I was watching the episode, the idea of Sutton not having teeth or like Sutton has teeth, but she doesn't have bite. Like, yeah, I just, I just thought she's harmless, I guess is the point. So I don't as cruel as that one thing she said was it made her look worse. It was a terrible thing to say to Dureet. But all of us watching, we weren't like, yeah, Dureet, you're poor. We were like, ew, Sutton. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. And honestly, the comparison to Ramona, I find very interesting because there's this guttural, I'm going to say the worst things possible to you. But I actually think Sutton means it more and she's used to getting away with stuff. And that's fair. I mean, because Ramona just is like drunk and saying, right, which isn't, which isn't of me, I'm not saying that Ramona isn't a piece of shit. She very clearly is. But you're right. It's very flippant. It doesn't come from a deep place. I think Sutton looks at life through the lens of being a perpetual victim. And at a certain point, I'm like, you know what, Sutton? If you go in there as Kyle's soldier and you know, you're going to say something that Dureet, that's going to piss Dureet off because she's clearly told you and the rest of the group repeatedly how she feels about Kyle and her relationship with Kyle and you go in there and try to light a match. If a small fire appears screaming, oh my God, there's a fire. I can't believe it. Where's the extinguisher doesn't track for me. Like her foe upset. And I guess that was insane. Her foe upset. Well, but I feel like she knows because when she repeated the story later, I forget who she was telling it to. With Reba. No, but when she was talking to him, was it Kathy and Bose maybe? Oh, yeah. Because she was like, you know, and I said to her that she should let Kyle know that they haven't talked and she's going to talk to her later. That's not what she said. She specifically said, I know there's a lot of things that happen this season where it was like semantics and the story got mixed, but this wasn't semantics. She told her she needed to apologize to Kyle, you know. Right. And I feel like I'm losing it, but I watched her conversation with Reba and Reba at one point, you know, Sutton says, I'm so upset because, you know, she was mean to me and Reba goes, are you that shallow? Because she's saying, you know, Derete's going through some stuff. Like maybe 10, allow 10 percent of you to feel uncomfortable. Sutton has no ability. She didn't feel uncomfortable when Derete's house got broken into and correct point and her children. She has such high expectations of everybody else. And I found it enormously frustrating because I am watching someone repeatedly have no tact with other people and have great expectations of other people and then protect herself with this layer after layer of I'm just very sensitive. I'm very sensitive. And while I can appreciate her narrative of like, I'm trying to be less reactive and XYZ, there still is this pretentious performative innocence. When I understand her intention here, her intention was to be a soldier to Kyle and to start something with Derete. I don't believe she went in there with the best of intent. And even if she did, if you know, you're talking to a human like fireworks display to pretend that this is wild to you, that Derete might not be like super caring and ask you what's going on with your son's graduation, which also if Sutton is saying that Derete didn't ask me what's going on in my life and you didn't provide that information to her at that point, that is, that's a wild... As Kathy Hilton would say, is that your dog? Right. No, but really, like it's it's frustrating to watch Sutton at this point because I see somebody who who appears to be, I don't know. She was like, in what universe would anybody who knows anything go up to Derete and say, you should tell Kyle, you're sorry that you haven't called this week? I mean, as Danielle Stab said, pay attention. Like, and if you are trying to start something, she also nothing even happened. Derete actually, as much as Derete went insane at the last supper and then got a little funny with Sutton later on when she was when she was like, OK, or whatever, she got a little cartoony. But like in that moment, Derete was just kind of like, yeah, OK, I appreciate your advice. That's not what I'm looking for right now. And then when like, you know, Rachel came over and was like, I want you to have a good time and dance through it was like, let's go. Like and it's telling that that's what hurts Sutton's feelings. What hurts Sutton's feelings was nothing Derete said when she went over Sutton said the stuff about Kyle. What hurts Sutton's feelings was that Derete wasn't like, Rachel's right, Sutton. I just want to have a good time tonight. Come on, come with us. Let's get a drink and dance. Sutton would have been delighted if she'd said that. But that's because Sutton surrounds herself with people who are her friends for 10, nineteen nine. She's so used to that. And she's heard that. Yes, no, like genuinely or people who are in her social circle, who have a certain certain level of pretension and like vapid displays of whatever else. And I was on Instagram for two seconds before you got here and I saw some fucking interview that she did that included her setting up. And then when she didn't think that like the soundbite came clear, she repeated herself, which was her feeling offended, quote unquote, offended. She said at multiple times that Jennifer Tilly had bought Lisa Rena's book, bought or received it or read it or maybe promoted it. I don't know you received that book. Well, but genuinely, she was offended that Jennifer Tilly did something to her. Now, I haven't I read, I think, two paragraphs of the book. I will circle back to it. I and thanks to the team for sending it to me. And also they sent me chocolate lips, which were delicious. I very much appreciate it. I want the team to know that I paid for the book, both the Kindle version and the audible version so that I could whisper, sink between reading it and listening to it so that I could finish it faster. And I got no lips in the mail. So sorry. And also there was like the thing, the message of like, you should tag Lisa Rena and she'll repost. And I said, I would love to, but she she blocked me. She blocked me during the day. I totally fine, totally fine. I'm absolutely deserved. Actually, truly not deserved. But anyway, it's part of the part of the biz. Yeah, the thing that I found so frustrating and just even seeing that clip, the idea that and I get that Rena says some stuff about her that's not OK. She does some flip and body shaming, not OK. But to not think of Jennifer Tilley as someone who can make decisions in her life and want to do things because, spoiler alert, Jennifer Tilley is also on this fucking show and she also is a Bravo holic. She said that before. She said that multiple times. But they all do that. I mean, that's the whole thing with the, you know, they choose sides and they hold each other, you know, they hold blame for that. I mean, and the thing is, Tilly doesn't give a shit. Tilly is so unbothered by Sutton getting upset about things that when Sutton brought that thing up to her this season earlier, my feelings were hurt. But Tilly is just the, oh, I'm so sorry. Like Tilly is just willing to like shine her on because it's like whatevs. I don't think that it's that Tilly doesn't care. I think it's that she recognizes that Sutton is trying to neuter her and she's unsees the power dynamic and there's a power imbalance because even though Jennifer Tilly is unthreatened, I don't know that she's unthreatened. I think she's looking at it because Sutton is saying something almost speaking down to her because Sutton is the full time housewife and Jennifer Tilly, who is way more recognizable, very clearly like recognizable to begin with outside of the housewives universe and is also America's sweetheart inside the housewives universe is still a friend of and there is a little bit of power. I disagree. I think there's a power imbalance there the opposite way. I think Sutton has the lowest status you can have basically on one of these shows. Maybe it's been raised this year because of Amanda, but like Sutton is like a very like low tier on the cast. She's always like the whipping girl. Like she's like, you know, she's always complaining about it. She's made it. Maybe it's a self fulfilling prophecy as opposed to Tilly who may be a friend of, but she's in that elite category of friends of by choice. She's also super rich, super famous and like instant iconic, like fan gold, every word that comes out of her mouth. But that's not counter to what I'm saying. I agree with you about Sun Lowen to the totem pole. I agree with you about Tilly and what she has reputation, celebrity, but there is an idea in Sutton's mind that she has more power on this show and can therefore either that or she and or she's just a piece of shit with her friends. Well, it could be both. And I think you're right in the sense that Sutton's always looking for the angle. You know, the reason the reason she goes in for this with this absurd thing to say to Dureet at that party about you should apologize to Kyle. Kyle wasn't sitting there going to reach to apologize to me. It was absolutely the craziest thing she could have said. It was clearly just a start a fight or something. Right. And the reason she did that is because it was like it was almost like the equivalent of the cruel guttural thing you said. This wasn't necessarily cruel, but it's just the lowest hanging fruit. And I think that when she possibly thinks about Tilly, it's true that there's a way in which she has more status by being a full time housewife. I think that ultimately Tilly has a higher status. But I think that, for example, Sutton's on more episodes, has more screen time, more ability to influence the narrative, you know, it's not to me as much about this status. It's the trickle down housewives economy. Which we saw with Alex McCord carrying Bethany's water to Jill Zarin in, I think it was Morocco, 700 years ago. Not since Alex McCord has water been carried. No, but truly, I think in the economy of housewives, Sutton is using all of her cachet to try to influence and put pressure and guilt Tilly into being more. She's trying, but she's clumsy and it fails. I think we see it, but I don't know that it's failing. I think it's so small. Well, she got an apology. That's something. I mean, if she truly had no power, she could have said that until he could have laughed in her face. Correct. I mean, the other thing, though, is in a way, the show has created the monster with Sutton. Because, yes, everything that we've both said about her, I think is true. And she's just such a certain kind of like narcissist, you know, that with this. But also there's been all these like whole storylines where the show has just followed her on like her, you know, spreading the ashes and, you know, or like the whole thing with Erica when Sutton was like so concerned about how it was going to reflect upon her, which I thought was absurd. It didn't seem to me. The Tom stuff? Yeah, I didn't see how that. I thought that was the least absurd thing that's ever happened. You thought that would reflect on Sutton in some way? Of course, because the underlying question there is, is Erica, what did Erica know? Of course. So Erica, but how does that reflect on Sutton? Because Sutton is on a show that has like lionized Tom Gerardi. It's devoted scenes to Tom Gerardi is the God's gift to legal efforts. Of course, it's going to reflect poorly. It's pretty plausible to me that Sutton and was whatever people think about Erica, I just didn't think Sutton was implicated as not being innocent. It's not about innocence. It's about the stain. It's about the stench of Tom wafting over everybody else. Well, that doesn't mean that Sutton's involved in it legally. We're not talking about the Royal Shakespeare Company. Look at the history of the real Housewives franchises in every city. And Beverly Hills going back to season one with Taylor, I'm strong and her husband, that's a different kind of situation. This is one of the worst examples of a lawyer defrauding victims, like in the not just in California history, but like I think in national history. He defrauded people of millions and millions of the country we live in. I mean, like look at our president. Like I don't think that like Tom Gerardi's misdoings. I don't think we have any on. I don't think we have to minimize the harm that Tom Gerardi did to people in order to have the perspective. No, what I'm saying is that we live. We are so saturated by that that. There's a question of real accountability for the perpetrators. I don't really think that the people who are third degree adjacent to that are in any way stained by that. I will. And also, if the inciting incident is that God forbid, Sutton knows how to read and read the L.A. Times piece, you lose me with that moment of how dare Sutton read an article. In that, I don't say how dare she read the article. Well, I mean, the rest of her cast did. Well, that was shady, too, because they were not when when they were when they were nobody said what Sutton said, but when they were on camera without Erica, they said more than they all had a it was a spectrum from America's friend. I'm behind Erica. 100 percent. That's all that matters to Sutton on the other end. And they were all somewhere along that. So I don't write. So what? Yeah, but it's more in what they said about that. Right. But I thought it wasn't just Sutton. But Sutton was the one that was making a big thing about and openly and in defense of Sutton, not too faced, you know, but Sutton was just abjectly like concerned about how the Tom and Erica thing. Yeah, I personally have no issue with what Sutton said. And I completely understood. I did. But anyway, but the point is there just been many, many storylines that have been driven wholly by things in Sutton's life that honestly weren't that interesting. There was the time when they went to this. What was it? The strip show in was it Vegas or and Sutton like had a whole flip out? I mean, it reminded me of Ramona a hundred years ago. And what was the thing? I don't even remember now. One of the housewives had something that was considered slutty or something or, you know, just the way she dressed. Alex McCord posing naked in a hotel lobby. Ramona walked out of the reunion. You know, and I just, you know, and. That's a whole separate thing. The fact that I have that kind of recall. Can we just take a look? No one can. Can we just take a look? I don't think Andy could go on himself. Can we just take a look? Can we just take a look? Thank you, though. But, you know, it's like I thought that was absurd at the time. And yet that was Ramona's thing that nobody was really like on board with her for. I mean, people might have had opinions about what Alex did, but nobody was like, I have a teenage daughter and I can't be seen on this television program, not to mention the fact that, like, it was pretty hypocritical based on how like Ramona conducts herself. But even putting that aside, like, so, like, you know, I think Sutton has done that stuff, but the show has just fought. It has just been the whole A story of the show multiple times to just be centered around whatever narcissistic thing was going on with Sutton. And the other women. They didn't call her out on it. They called her. They would fight with her in the on the merits of individual things, and they would go petty and they would even be mean to her. But there was never this sense of like. Who cares? Why are we doing that? I don't want to do that, you know, and partly it's because they all have a job. And so the producers were like, we're going to spread mercies ashes. But like, so that's why I just say that, you know, the producers, the show has made Sutton believe her narcissistic, self-involved, you know, victim mentality is a valid through line for the show. It's not surprising to me to hear Sutton be like, you know, she didn't even ask me about my son going to college, you know, and I'm just like, yeah, because the show has encouraged her. I mean, you know, in a way, reality TV encourages everybody to be their worst selves or whatever, but like Sutton specifically in terms of narcissism. I've been surprised. It must have just been that there was nothing good they filmed that season. But time and again, how Beverly Hills seems to like revolve around like, I think, kind of boring stories about Sutton that I'm not sure why these other women didn't have stuff going on that trumped it. No pun intended. That's, I mean, that's interesting because I don't, I don't think of Sutton in any way as boring, but it can feel expected that she is going to re overreact in a way, although some of those reactions are necessary because Beverly Hills for the last many seasons has sort of required Sutton's specific in this way existence because her freakouts in a different than what has been discussed in national news recently. It's just it's allowed other people to perform less. True. And and and that seems to have been what those other people wanted. You know, Kyle like side stepping as much as possible, the stuff going on in her marriage and her relationship with what's her name, the singer, you know, what Morgan Wade. Yeah, you know, like Kyle didn't want to be this. Kyle was freaking out every time that the story gravitated towards what's going on with her, or then they do focus on born and you know, I'm number one Bose fan, like my favorite housewife, but the plot line about her for and I have many friends and family members who've gone through fertility struggles and that is real and beautiful and like I'm here for them. But like that is not a television show story. It also wasn't even covered in the humanity. Like it'd be one thing if I saw Bose dealing with the what do you call it? Hormone injections and like having to like deal with like mood swings and weight gains and weight loss and having to do, you know, it wasn't about her human experience of it, it was just very like the most boring aspect of her fertility stuff. And I did not enjoy that storyline. So I can't really be mad that we got like hijacked by like Amanda's plots about changing her name back. I mean, it also goes back to how like kind of patriarchal this whole series is maybe not every single one of the women, but it continues to shock me when these women in this modern era we live in will process. Sonia did the same thing. Their divorce will take them more than 10 years. It'll still be the great tragedy of their life as if their life was not, you know, fulfilling without that one primary relationship, you know, and these are people that are now television stars, are lifestyle brands, are certainly mothers. And I've just been constantly surprised by how defined they seem to be by their ex-husbands even years after the divorce, you know. Yeah, which is something that Rachel So sort of referenced in the fact that like Erica is talking about DeRede and the separation and focusing on the money angle, which so understandably so a lot of people do. And Rachel So is like, yeah, that's not the first thing that comes to mind. Because I have my own financial independence. Like my husband was not the breadwinner I was. So when I think of the divorce and what's going to happen to me, I am financially independent. That's real. And that's certainly true of Sonia and that's true of DeRede, but not with Sutton. Sutton was completely financially secure all many of these years. Well, it took an extraordinary battle in hiring a forensic accountant. He tried to fuck her. She didn't know about many streams of income until she she invested in a forensic accountant who could do that labor. Otherwise she would have been fucked. But she's not fucked and she hasn't been for a while. So she's still been obsessed with him. But her level of financial. But also when your life is taken away from you, your life with your husband, we don't need to invalidate that. I'm not invalidating. Like even Reba, whose husband died by suicide, was validating DeRede's perspective of like it can take years to go through this. Yes, but there's something like. There's a grief in a morning. Didn't you feel with Sonia that on Housewives, it was many, many years. Sonia's. She was divorced when she joined the show. But Ben, let's hold hands again. Let's hold hands again. But audio podcast. But Sonia's insane. Sonia's insane. Sonia was focusing on the yacht. And by the way, even Rachel Zoo, who is another one of my queens and I support her independence and love her financial independence, I was shocked at the. It was at the end of the last episode when she was so upset that her ex-husband posted this thing about his. The way they set it up because there was very reality TV editing where, you know, when the thing happened, we'd already spent 15 minutes of the show being like, I can't believe what he did. Cut to commercial, you know. And like it when it happened, I was like, I get that like this could hurt someone's feelings and make them feel really upset. And that is totally valid. But she described it as if he had. And by the way, this guy that's already seemed like an asshole, right? Like when he violated like their agreement about introducing the girlfriend. Yeah. You know, and other things I think about the parenting and other topics, even unrelated to that, he seems like a total piece of shit. This is not a defense of him, but this seemed like something that was very his side of the street and like not her. I could see where it upsets her, but it didn't seem like it was something that he violated like a principle and did to her. Right. It was the timing of the fact that he's now stripping a Virgo and like she's a Virgo. So by the way, like the whole thing with the Virgo, having her teenage son be like, for all the Virgos out here, I'm like, let's not indoctrinate them. And like, I mean, I like to read my horoscope too, but no, I love that. I thought it was a lot. No, I love that. I totally know. I don't know that we need to, if we're just talking about the patriarch, I don't know that we need to invalidate the grief, especially when in some of these cases, the decision to separate or divorce was not a decision made by these women. So the idea that they wouldn't be allowed or that the extensive level of grief that they could be feeling. They're allowed all the grief in the world. I'm not invalidating it. I'm saying it was disappointing to me as their fan to see how. Oh, but that's human. Yeah, but you like when you see people like moving on and feeling better and being transcending something. She's six hours out of this. She's in the early days, babe. No, no, well, sure, with Rachel. But but Sonya was many, many years. You can't bring up Sonya. Sonya's out of her mind. Sonya's. They're all out of their mind. Sonya's grief over her husband was, apologies to Sonya, so much more related to the lifestyle and being Mrs. Morgan than it was anything else. It was don't touch the Morgan letters. It was the little bit that way with Sutton. Not to say she's the same as Sonya, but like the whole thing with changing the name. When she was saying when she was calling her daughter, her daughter was so like, OK, cool. Like and it was like Sutton was having like this moment. You know, I did not love her having that conversation with her kid. I didn't love it. I said this is where and I understand your daughter is a young adult. She's a beautiful, smart, intelligent, smart, again, young lady. Have that with your friends. Don't have that. I felt cloying. It was like you have to go through that process yourself. You don't need. But I get that people have different relationships with their children. I support you on that. I love that. But her daughter is an adult. However, Rachel Zoe has had these conversations with her kids that I thought were weird. They're young, young boys. And like I thought it was too much. Like they shouldn't be, you know, I know I'm not I don't know anything about the husband and everything we heard about him sounds like he's doing much worse of that stuff. So this is not an indictment of her or anything like that. But he's having like a mid-life crisis, which is not me. I'm just saying he's like he's very believable. Everything he's losing it. Yeah. But like but at least at least Sutton, it was. You know, I came from a divorced home, so I always put myself in the kids' shoes. And even though I agree with what you're saying about the conversation, Sutton had with her daughter in that moment, I didn't really feel like uncomfortable for her. I mean, I felt uncomfortable because I'm sure her daughter felt awkward. But I wasn't like like I didn't get a tight feeling in my chest. I felt like the daughter was just like, OK, I'm like, I got it. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas Sutton knows her daughter much more than I do very clearly. So like I take that. And whatever else I say about Sutton, the little we've seen of her kids, they don't seem wonderful. Yeah, they seem great. All of the kids are great. All of the kids don't even. All of the kids are great. We don't. Some of the kids are very exposed on the show. And you see different sides of them. Yeah. Sutton kids, you've seen very little. But what you've seen is nothing but positive. But the thing that we were, Rachel, put her children in that moment. I felt their pain and I felt her son's feeling codependent with her needs and responding in ways that they thought would help her, which is natural thing that a kid wants to do to their parent in a difficult situation. But it's in an ideal world. It's not a way that the parent it's not a position that parent puts the child in, you know, and that. So I love Rachel, but like, but I think there it's she's been a little strange in this divorce. It seems absurd. We're having this conversation when the craziest person in the divorce on the TV show right now is Derrit. We were like splitting hairs about Rachel. Well, to talk about Derrit requires a conversation about Kyle, which is why I was kind of winking to myself when I said this might be a lost episode. Let's do it. I've got some thoughts. So let's have this conversation continue. Everyone head on over to part two out now.