Why Are You Gay? Milo Yiannopoulos Explains.

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Of all the great memes and clips on the internet, Fat Kid Falls Off Bike being, of course, the top of the list, really in the last 13 years, 13 years this week, almost nothing created on this planet has surpassed in popularity or sheer hilarity an interview that took place on Ugandan television in December of 2012 on a show called Morning Breeze, the morning show of Kampala, Uganda, in which a trans activist, a woman who now identifies as a man, came on and was asked a series of questions by the host. And if you don't know what we're talking about, here is a two-second clip that reveals the essence of the conversation. Why are you gay? Why are you gay? It's, let's play that again. Why are you gay? It's still the funniest thing that's ever been on the internet. But why is it funny? And why does almost everyone find it funny? Laughed, right, straight, gay? Well, because it's kind of the key question, and it's kind of the question that no one in the United States is allowed to ask, why are you gay? And of course, it's being asked by an East African with kind of a quaint, semi-colonial accent, and conservatives can laugh at it, liberals can laugh at it. Really, this is kind of the only way a white liberal in the United States could ever laugh at a black person if it's an African expressing non-PC views on homosexuality. Why are you gay? And of course, people in the West laugh because the guy's an idiot. Why are you gay? Well, know why you're gay. Why are you gay? Actually, we're laughing in part because we're not allowed to ask that question. It's settled, though no one's really explained what about it is settled. If you were to ask the average American, why are people gay? They would probably say, well, they're born that way. And then if you follow it up with, well, how exactly does that work? They would have no idea when tell you to shut up. Because again, like so many myths or things that we think we know, we don't really know. We can't really explain it, but we do know for dead certain we're not allowed to talk about it. So when some African morning show host in Uganda, wherever the hell that is, ask it out loud, we can't help but laugh nervously. Why are you gay? If you watch the whole interview, and actually it's worth watching because it's really revealing, both about Uganda and about the West. The first thing you notice is how polite everybody is. That tone, why are you gay? Continued throughout the entire interview, which lasted over an hour, just watched it. And the morning show host, whether you like him or dislike him, was just unfailingly polite to the guest who was him or herself also unfailingly polite. And they were just sort of talking past each other. The trans activist couldn't really explain why he or she was gay or whether gay was different from trans or what was good about being gay. That was another question the host asked, why would you want to be gay? And the trans activists just didn't really have an answer. What was amazing was the sweetness of it. It was not a hate crime, not even approaching a hate crime, no conversation like that could take place in the United States. But the host was coming from a position of total certainty that this is just weird and wrong. And that is the consensus in a lot of the world. And it's certainly famously the consensus in Uganda. And the consensus in the United States across both parties and pretty much the whole educated population is they're horrible because they think homosexuality is wrong. And we know this because about 10 years later in Uganda, the legislature passed almost unanimously with only I think one dissenting vote, a law against something called aggravated homosexuality. Aggravated homosexuality as of 2023 is a death penalty offense in Uganda. What? Aggravated homosexuality? A death penalty offense? That's medieval. But how is it defined in Uganda? Well, if you read it and you can, because it's online, the Ugandan government defines aggregated homosexuality as gay rape of children, gay rape of the elderly who can't consent, people over 75, gay rape of people who are mentally deficient, and the intentional transmission of deadly diseases to another person. So it's rape and murder effectively are against the law, in fact, capital crimes in Uganda. It's a little different than advertised, but you would never know it because the entire American political class erupted as one when this law passed in East Africa thousands of miles away with a non-relevant trading partner with no real military, in other words, there's no actual reason to care about what Uganda does, but everyone here did care, and I personally, and we're actually not gonna expect you to take our word for it, we're gonna go right to the CIA for the answer, meaning Wikipedia. This is the Wikipedia description of the response. President Joe Biden weighed in, this was two years ago, this is 2023. President Joe Biden condemned the law, calling it, quote, a tragic violation of universal human rights, and quote, the latest development in an alarming trend of human rights abuses and corruption in Uganda, corruption. So here, the Ugandans, the Ugandans, had the temerity to exercise a democratic process using a legislature elected by the people of Uganda to pass a law almost unanimously with one dissenting vote, and that's corruption. It's almost as corrupt as the anti-gay marriage initiative in California that voters passed, but judges wisely struck down on the name of democracy. Okay, so that was Biden's response, but it wasn't just Biden. Here's Senator Ted Cruz, the self-described conservative from Texas. Here's what he said, he tweeted this, he put this in writing, as he so often does, and we're quoting, any law criminalizing homosexuality or imposing the death penalty for quote, aggravated homosexuality is grotesque and an abomination, all civilized nations should join together in condemning this human rights abuse. So it's uncivilized to penalize gay rape or the intentional transmission of a deadly disease. That's uncivilized. Seems kind of civilized, but at the time, nobody agreed. This was grotesque, the kind of thing that only Africans would do. It's one step up from cannibalism, can you believe it? Penalizing gay rape? And the intentional transmission of AIDS? What do I think of next? We'll throw you in a stoopot, savages. You'll notice that Uncle Ted called it an abomination and the Anglican Communion agreed. Here's Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, the leader of the rapidly dying Anglican Communion, which would include the Episcopal Church of the United States, the state church of England. He wrote to the Archbishop of Uganda, Christian brother to Christian brother, to express his quote, grief and dismay at the Church of Uganda's support for the Anti-Homosexuality Act. The head of the Church of England was filled with grief at the thought that rape would be banned and the intentional transmission of AIDS, et cetera, et cetera. But it didn't stop with expressions of grief and condemnation and tweets from Ted Cruz. No, it got right to the hard stuff, to the things that matter, meaning money and foreign aid. Here's the World Bank. Immediately, the World Bank swings into action. The World Bank announced it would halt lending to Uganda. Response to the new law, no more lending, no more money for you, we're cutting you off. The financial institution noted that the act, quote, fundamentally contradicts the World Bank group's values. Ooh, what are the World Bank's values? That'd be interesting to know. You know, in the same country, contradicting the World Bank's quote, values, would be a sign of virtue, probably. Probably get a merit badge for that. But the World Bank was outraged. They know sin when they see it. Baining gay rape will tolerate a lot, but not that. And then finally, Joe Biden, in October of 2023, spun fully into a frenzy at this point, watching, taking the lead of the World Bank, announced that Uganda would be expelled from the group of sub-Saharan African countries that benefit from tax breaks under the US African Growth and Opportunity Act, OGOA, because of the country's, quote, gross violations of internationally recognized human rights, which violate the OGOA eligibility criteria. So that was 2023. So bottom line, no more money for you. What happened next? Well, you gone and starved. The next year there was a famine. I mean, not to laugh at famine, but it's almost unbelievable. So you ban, you ban gay rape of children and the elderly and the mentally disabled, and we're gonna starve you out. And boy did they, the United States shut it down international aid institutions followed suit and the next year, Uganda had a famine that is still ongoing. 50% of children in Uganda today suffer of the symptoms of malnutrition, stunted growth, anemia, 50%. Half of all Ugandan kids are starving. And of course, Uganda's never been a rich country. It's had a lot of turmoil. Idi Amin was from there. Uganda has some problems for sure. But the year after the West collectively withdrew aid from Uganda, billions in aid, they have a famine and it's all because they banned gay rape of children. Okay, so I guess the point here is, our values are pretty clear. We're for this and we're totally against questioning it. And if you do, we will hurt you. So what is that? What are you gay? Maybe that's a question worth asking. But of course, nobody has. And then you wake up one morning and you realize that supporting homosexuality, which is very different from like not hating gays. No one should hate gays. And most Americans don't hate gays. In fact, most of us have to be men in America who did hate gays. I know I ever have, at least in the past 30 years. No one hates gays. You know, a million gays and some of them are awesome people. Work for you or your friends or whatever. It's not about hating gays. It's about being forced to say this is an affirmative good. And if you disagree with that, then you are affirmatively bad and we're gonna stoke a famine in your country to punish you. That's literally where we are. And some of us should have been paying closer attention as this movement never formally declared, not the gay rights movement, but the terror against anyone who opposes gay rights, whatever those are, worshipping homosexuality. We should have paid closer attention. Gonna refer you to one of the great clips of the entire Biden administration. When people look back in the Biden administration, there'll be, of course, an endless loop of him falling off his bike or identifying his sister as his wife. Or clips designed to show how confused and senile this poor guy was. And those will in a lot of ways represent the administration, but it's the moment of clarity, those occasional moments of clarity, where Biden was really saying something on purpose because he meant it and he wanted to tell you what was important. Those are the clips that actually define the four disastrous years of Joe Biden. And above all, I would argue, this clip tells you everything you need to know about the values of the US government, of our popular culture, of the West collectively. And once we understand the values, we can assess are those the right values? And can a civilization continue with those values? But first the clip, here's Joe Biden describing a trip to downtown Wilmington, Delaware with his dad in 1962. I remember getting out of a car when I was trying to be dropped off at the local city hall to get a job to be the only white employee in the east side of town in the neighborhood in the projects as a life card. My dad was dropping me off so I could go around the block and run and get the application. And two well-dressed men kissed one another as I was open the door. And I hadn't seen that before. And I turned around and one walked off to the DePont building, one walked off for what used to be called the Hercules Corporation. And I looked at my dad and he just looked at me and said, it's simple, honey. They love each other. It's just basic. There's nothing complicated about it. That's how I was raised for real. This is like the greatest clip ever. And there's just so much. I mean, you could really spend all day getting Talmudicana, just dissecting it and trying to figure out what it means. I mean, there's so many parts to this. First of all, Biden's dad called him honey. That's weird. What dad calls his boy honey, honey? Strange. And who knows what it means. Not implying anything, but it's weird. Well, Grand Canyon University is not like most American colleges. It focuses on the things that actually matter. It is not a rip off. It is the real thing. It's private, affordable, Christian university located in the heart of Phoenix, one of the largest universities in the country actually. At Grand Canyon University, education is more than academics. It is about opportunity. The chance for every student to live out the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Rights are not given by the government. They were bestowed at birth at conception by God. That's just a fact. And Grand Canyon University is not gonna lie to your kids and claim otherwise. It tells the truth. So you know, you're thinking a quality education is rare. So this probably costs a fortune. Colleges constantly jack up their costs. They probably do the same. Well, they don't actually. 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The only state in which it was legal, Illinois, had just legalized it several months before. So having gay sex in the United States, when Biden claims this happened, was a felony, pretty much everywhere. A felony, very few people ever went to jail for it, because no one was really interested in enforcing it. But the laws of the United States mirrored those of pretty much every country in the world, from then going back maybe to Athens. Like, people have always been against this. It's always been officially discouraged by every single society. The question is why that's worth a conversation at some point, probably not just random bigotry. Every society that we know about ever has had an official policy against gay sex, or forms of gay sex. Why? Again, can you explain this to me without getting hysterical? Maybe there's a reason there, who knows? But that was the state in the United States in the summer of 1962. So the idea that Joe Biden's drunk used car salesman, dad, turned to him, this British Irish guy who Biden has described many times, and says, honey, honey, it's just love. It's okay, it's just love. Two guys making out outside the DuPont building, downtown Wilmington, totally normal. Is so transparently absurd, it's such an obvious attempt to graft modern values onto an antique setting that is so clearly fake, that amazingly no one laughed, but no one did laugh because no one was allowed to laugh. But that's absurd, ask anyone who was alive in 1960s, who just used common sense, that didn't happen. But notice how Biden frames it. He said he was getting dropped off to get a job as the only white man working in the hood, breaking the color barrier. It wasn't just a summer job, it was a victory for civil rights. And he was the kind of guy who would do that because his family had a long commitment to civil rights as evidenced by his father's kind of casual acceptance of homosexuality. It's just love, it's just love. Okay. So what do we learn from that? Well, we learned that Biden's of course a fabulous, we knew that. But in this specific clip, he's lying for a reason to transmit to the nation, its essential values. And at the very top of that list is we are for homosexuality. That's number one. We're out there with civil rights. People get to vote, people get to have K-sex. That's America. That's our culture. Okay. So it probably shouldn't surprise you that the self-reported incidents of homosexuality and its many varieties in the United States rose dramatically during that period. And here are roughly the numbers. So about a little over 10 years ago, 2012, among young people in the United States, about 6% said, yeah, I'm not heterosexual. So that would be in the range that, we've been told for many years was natural, right? Maybe 10%, a little under 10% of people say they're not heterosexual and whatever, gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, whatever, but they're not one man, one woman, monogamy people at all. So that was the number a little over 10 years ago. Last year, the number among young people was over 20%. So a little more than a decade, you have a three-fold increase, 300% increase in self-identified, non-heterosexual orientation in a little over 10 years. What are we looking at? Well, we're looking at demographic collapse, among other things, right? But what is the phenomenon actually? Where does this come from? Or to put it in Uganda in terms, what are you gay? Well, let's see. We have been told for the course of my life that you're born gay. It's like handedness or eye color or height. It's just something that you're born with. God created you that way. You are unique, your iris, your fingerprints, your sexuality, they're all unique to you. And that's something not to be embarrassed of, unless you're a white man, in which case, of course, slink away in shame, be denied admission to college or a job. But for everyone else, your mutable characteristics are something that you celebrate that you should be proud of. Not something that you chose or not something you can change. And this is the story that all of us have been told, and most of us may include it, sort of kind of believe that, okay? And if that's true, of course, you could never, ever show bias against someone on the basis of his mutable characteristics because that's wrong, it's also un-Christian. And that is true, it is un-Christian, to attack someone on the basis of something with which he was born, of course. Really no one has put this in clearer terms than the former mayor of South Bend, Indiana, the former transportation secretary. And as of today, the leading candidate for the Democratic nomination in 2028, Mr. Pete Buttigieg, here he is. I can tell you that if me being gay was a choice, it was a choice that was made far, far above my pay grade. And that's the thing I wish the Mike Pence of the world would understand. That if you got a problem with who I am, your problem is not with me. Your quarrel, sir, is with my creator. Take it up with God! He made me this way. Notice the self-seriousness, the sort of JFK-esque gays into the distance. Your quarrel, sir, is with my creator. Little drama queen. Yeah, maybe, okay. But that doesn't really answer the question, why was Pete Buttigieg dating chicks for the first part of his adult life? By his own admission, he was dating women, like a bunch of women. He was openly heterosexual, including in the US military, after the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell. So it was totally legal to be gay in the military, but Pete was still heterosexual. So the answer, I think most people come to, is well, he was just ashamed of being gay. Like he couldn't be his true self. He couldn't kind of let it out. Maybe that's true, though those of us who were living in the United States 10 years ago remember that there was no sanction against being gay. Tons of gay televisions filled with gay people. Those of us who worked in television around gay people, great gay people actually, just being clear, really nice good people all day long. It was only weird about being gay 10 years ago, 15 years ago when Pete Buttigieg was like, I couldn't come to terms with my own sexuality. Cause his parents are so repressive. No, they were actually lifestyle liberals. They're big left wingers, his parents. So probably unlikely that his parents were like, don't be gay, son. If you watch this show, you know that we love Pure Talk. It is amazing wireless service with absolutely the best prices. And all the time we've been telling you about Pure Talk, we've never seen an offer like the one we're about to describe. 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Go to the site to get all the details, but those are the basics. So it's a completely fair question. You were dating chicks not that long ago, a bunch of them, and all of a sudden you're getting all self-serious about how God made you this week. Explain how that works. It's a totally fair question, especially since Pete Buttigieg's whole identity is wrapped up in being gay. His whole identity, it's not like Pete Buttigieg is running for president because he's had incredible career as a public servant. He fixed South Bend, Indiana, he's just a really good mayor. Nobody thinks that, ask anybody in South Bend. He was just a really good driver in the US military who's an awesome transportation secretary. He was a joke as a transportation secretary. Did air travel get better under Pete Buttigieg? Did the roads get fixed? Did anything improve in American transportation during Pete Buttigieg's tenure as transportation secretary? No, he wasn't just lame, he was awful. And in case you don't remember, here's his signature achievement as secretary of transportation, identifying racist roads. And the interstate system, the interstate system was built to keep certain groups in and certain groups out. So it was built on a racist system, correct? Yeah, often this wasn't just an act of neglect. Often this was a conscious choice. There is racism physically built into some of our highways. There was racism built into the highways. There was rebar and a concrete substrate, and of course gravel and then asphalt poured over the top. But mixed in there, probably in a drum at some point, was actual white racism. It was mixed into the roads, and that's why Pete Buttigieg had to tear them up. That's a real clip, that's not AI, as you may remember. Like, that's insane. That was his tenure as secretary of transportation, not being mean to him, and it's not even worth dredging that up again, except to make the point that being gay isn't just this thing about Pete Buttigieg. It's the whole point of Pete Buttigieg. It is the reason that he has the plurality of support from Democratic primary voters who are not black. His support among black voters? They're more in the, why are you gay camp? They're not impressed at all. In fact, I'm trying to do the math here. I think his support, Pete Buttigieg's current support among African-American Democratic primary voters is, let's see, around zero. So zero percent in that range, meaning nobody, like no black people, they're not going for it. Why are you gay? You can almost hear them saying that. But among white liberals, Pete Buttigieg's gayness, the fact he's married to a dude called Jason and has somehow acquired babies somehow, how do you get babies? Just sort of buy them somewhere, whatever. He has these babies. And he is the model of whatever, a modern gay man. That's the whole point. He is a civil rights hero because of who he sleeps with. Pretty amazing. So two obvious points to make about that. First, do you remember when they used to tell us, we don't care what happens in your bedroom? Do you remember that? We want to keep politics out of the bedroom. We want to keep politicians out of your bedroom. This was a way to justify the Holocaust of abortion, of course, but the line sounded kind of appealing. Politicians probably stayed in my bedroom, that seems fair. Now your bedroom is the whole point. You've got politicians running on what they do in their bedroom and on the Democratic side, succeeding. Because that leads very obviously to the second point, which is there are a lot of rewards in store for someone in the Democratic Party, an ambitious politician, someone who really only cares about the goal, which in Pete Buttigieg's case, has always been becoming president. Is it bad to come out of the closet and announce that you're gay? No, no, no. That's like the only way you're going to get to the White House. That's the only way. That's your ticket, being quote, gay. Huh. So given that that's obviously true and given that this guy dated girls as an adult, it's totally fair to ask the question, why are you gay? Like, what is this? Starting to think that maybe it's not genetic or entirely genetic. And if it is, show me the gene. We've decoded the human genome. We can tell you where the gene for eye color comes from. Where's the gay gene? Maybe there is a gay gene, by the way. Lots of things we haven't decoded yet. Maybe it's there. Are you looking for it? Are you trying to answer this question? No. The whole game is to make you be quiet, ashamed, because if someone do a sex, and what are you a creep, focus on sex, you're obsessed with gay sex. Sort of a variety. You're obsessed with Israel. Actually not. But you're way up in my face about it. And so I think it's fair to ask you a couple of very simple straightforward questions, foundational questions, like what is this? Where does it come from? Why is it good? Why is being gay better than not being gay? And if it's not 100% genetic, clearly isn't. If you've had a 300% increase in 10 years, probably not genetic, unless our genetics are changing at lightning speed, unless evolution is a much faster process than Toro would ever reckoned. If it's not entirely genetic, then what are the other factors? And since apart from moral concerns, or the concerns of human happiness, does this actually make you happy? And what does it mean to live as a gay person in the United States? What exactly does that look like? Like what's your life like? How many people do you have sex with? How are those unfair questions? Since you're the one throwing it in my face and telling me I'm not allowed to be against it, maybe I'm allowed to ask the questions. I don't really want to ask, don't really want to know the answers to. But since you've made it the North Star of our moral system in the United States, since you're willing to starve an African country because they disagree with it, maybe it's time for me to ask those questions because you push me to. On this and a lot of other issues, if you just back off a little bit, we could just return to the status quo of say 1985, or yeah, they're gay people, they're great, they're off, whatever, they're here, they're there, whatever, but they're not pushing gay sex on my kids in school. That's clearly not a good idea. Tell me why it is a good idea. And of course it's a crime to intentionally infect someone with an infectious disease. And of course it's in fact the hallmark of civilization to make rape illegal, gay or straight. What? But since you blew up all those previous assumptions and now made them illegal, you gone to made this crime punishable by death, you made their law punishable by famine. So who's more serious about it? You are. Since you did all of that, how about we just slowly in a non hysterical, obviously non hateful way, ask what are we looking at? Why are you gay? Why is that a good thing? What is it exactly? And there are a lot of people we could ask about this, but we thought, believe it or not, the most articulate person we know to answer these questions is Milo Yiannopoulos, who was very famous 10 years ago as a, what was he called, conservative provocateur, running around the country, making the case against liberals as an open, in fact, flamboyant gay man. And that was part of the shtick, right? It's like, we've got a gay guy too. What are you gonna say now? You know, we've got black conservatives too. You can't call us racist. We've got a gay conservative. You can't call us homophobes. And so Milo was unleashed on the world. And then in literally one day, he was canceled, really destroyed as a person in a sort of non scandal that, like so many of that period and of this period sort of took him right off the stage you never heard from him again. But during the period when he was flitting around America on his dangerous faggot tour, spreading whatever it was, libertarian economics or something to the kids, it became obvious that this guy was actually really smart. You know, even for those of us who were never that interested in the dangerous faggot part of it, if you listen, you thought, well, this guy's not dumb at all. He's actually very thoughtful. Very thoughtful, high IQ guy who thinks about things. So over the last couple of years, during text conversations, I became aware that Milo had decided that he didn't want to be gay anymore. I thought that was kind of interesting. I didn't know you could decide you didn't want to be gay. And then you read about it and it turns out there's a whole industry movement and laws designed to prevent you from deciding not to be gay. Huh? The parts of the United States have banned conversion therapies. You're not allowed to talk to a psychiatrist about not having same-sex attraction. Wow, what is that? Like once you're in, you can't get out. It's like mandatory gayness. What the hell are we looking at? Well, it's the season to give gifts to those you love and there is no greater gift than the first gift, the gift of life. With the abortion mafia doubling down, there's never been a more important time to fight back against them and for children, which is really all that matters, children. Our friends at Preborn are the ones to go to. They're the ones we trust. 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So, the first thing you need to do is to install pound 250, say the keyword baby, pound 250 baby or visit preborn.com slash Tucker. Preborn.com slash Tucker. And so it seemed worth a sit down conversation with Milo Yiannopoulos and just ask him sincere questions. Like what is this? Why did you decide to change? What's it like changing? What does it mean to be gay in the United States specifically? And so that conversation follows and we hope you enjoy it. I'm glad you came. I want us to begin with- If you have any personal to have me on, I'm joking. No, I'm actually really interested. I'm interested in this topic. I've never been interested in it, but I want to begin by asking you- It's icky, isn't it? It's icky. Well, sort of impersonal, but you know, it's occurred to me. Particularly when I have interviewed Republican politicians, particularly neocons over the years. I'm a sexuality comes to mind. I always wanted to say, you know, you got an accent. Are you gay? Why are you gay? Let me ask, are you gay? Were you gay? Like what is gay? Nobody's gay. Nobody's gay. After that clip, which is the best thing on the internet, he changes the question, the interrogative to a declarative. He says, why are you gay? And she starts talking, he says, you are gay. It becomes a statement. And this is where he goes, this is where he loses me because nobody is gay. We've been encouraged to think of this. Is it icky subject? Like straight men don't want to think about that. No, no, it's okay. I mean, it's reached the- It's been you inviting me. Well, I invited you because I have not, you know, not wanted to be engaged with the topic at all. I don't have strong, super strong personal feelings about it. But all of a sudden, it has become like a defining fact of the West that we have a huge gay population. Like what does that- It's a quateenistotomy. But no one wants to talk about it. And it's like a trade with strings attached. Sorry, I'm sorry. What metaphor am I reaching for strings attached? Yes, you can, but only if you have a gay pride festival. Great. What is that? Yes, exactly. What is that? Yes, it has been. And all of these things, and with the collapse in people identifying as trans, you're beginning to now see what some of us have always known about homosexuality, which is that this is a product. I mean, there are some people obviously who were probably always going to be gay, Tammy Bruce. But, you know, maybe she might be the only real lesbian. She might be the only real lesbian. I believe when Tammy Bruce tells me that she was only ever into women, I believe her. You know, and I like her by the way, I think she's great. But she's like the only real lesbian. With gay men, which is completely different, we see the numbers go up, the numbers go down. This is not, without some change in environmental factors, this doesn't make sense if we believe the old lie born this way. If we believe what was in fact invented in the 1980s as a public relation strategy born this way. So what happened back in the days? Gays were in the 80s and with the bays and all the rest of it, wanting to be out and proud and to wear their sins on their sleeves. And somebody came up with this idea, which caught on and worked. It was twofold. One is, what if we say that being gay is like being black or being a woman? Yes. Then they're a bigot. We're not weird. And so it takes the religious, the moral majority's sinful lifestyle choice argument and it screws them because now they're saying like, you're wrong to be a girl or you're wrong to be black. Exactly. It was invented. It was invented wholesale by the activists in the 1980s. And the second part of it was, and this is in a book called After the Ball, which is kind of defined how gay activists were going to... It really, it was very influential because it was really the book that told gay activists how to get this revolting sin that most people don't even want to think about, upfront and centre, family friendly, and ultimately to the state where we let them adopt children, which is the whole thing we'll get into. And that was don't talk about bodily functions, don't talk about effluvia, just talk about love. Just talk about love. Talk about it in terms of love, like love is love, love wins. And we see this to the first day, never talk about, you know, the stains on the sheets, the promiscuity, the drugs, the glory hulls in Berlin nightclubs. Never talk about any of those things because those things will repel women and you need moms with gay sons to affirm their homosexuality. And so what is that homosexuality? Long answer for a short question I understand. In almost every case, and certainly in every male case, it is a trauma response. It is not a sexuality. It is not part of what you are or who you are or a component of your personality or a function of... It is a set of behaviours that emerges in people with a number of very easily identifiable common etiologies. One of them is... So for instance, among gay... Excuse me, among black and Jewish Americans, they report statistically significantly higher rates of homosexuality. Or why could that be overbearing moms and absent dads? Or in the Jewish case, Nebish fathers. And you know, like Jewish... My Jewish friends, I always call their marriages are like lion taming, you know, where you have a sort of Nebish scholarly bookish dad and a larger than life mom who, you know, one day decides she's going to be a rabbi. But you know, that or in the black community, of course, just the fatherlessness. And it's why if it born this way, if you don't have some other better explanation, could it be the case that there are more gays among black and Jewish populations? Well, something's going on here. Why are we getting more trans and more gays and then less gays and less... Why? Because this is in fact a symptom. In fact, this is a product of something. It's the result of something. Well, this was Freud's position, which was kind of conventional wisdom for the better part of a hundred years, that this was a response to the environment and particularly to the relationship with the mother that a young boy has and a relationship with his father. I mean, this was like, people just assumed that was true when I was a kid. They were not gay haters or homophobes. That was a state of knowledge on the subject. One of the only things Freud got right was that. And it's funny that the way that's actually in line with Catholic Church teaching, and now has become... Now you see the terminology in the medical industry has begun to change as well, because now gay people are sort of saturated everywhere. You know, like when you get... It's kind of like America. You get a whole country full of people who are very similar, but all think they're really, really individual. You know, like... That's deep. P.S. I do know what that looks like. And you know, sort of, Americans are very fagotized country in all kinds of ways. That's the technical term. If you want to know the truth about homosexuality, you've got to go to Black YouTube and listen to the girls. How do you get to Black YouTube, by the way? You know, it's a sort of tumbling kind of thing. You find one good video by somebody who's like, Steph Curry, you're fagotized. You know, it's just... Sorry. And then, you know, you'll tumble through the algorithm. I'll send you some links. I'll post some links on my Twitter. I don't know if I dare, but you're saying that's the more honest YouTube. It's the only honest YouTube. It's the only honest anything, because... You go past the churches and you'll see, you know, the white homo-demons stealing your man. And it's not the pastor who comes up with this stuff. It's his wife. It's his wife who's got this, you know, who was trying to set her girlfriend up with somebody. And that was all great. But he went off with a dude, which is sort of equi-distant for them from going off with a white girl or whatever. But no, the only honest place where people will just be like, hmm, did it? Fagotized. You know, and then they'll go... Amazing. Lebron? Fagotized. And they'll go through it all. I mean, for me, the neplus ultra of this genre would be a black china's mum. Do you know who that is? No. Of course you don't. You remind me of a line from Blackadder sometimes, you know? Because you have this sort of like lovely, kind of like ingenue kind of thing that you do. And it's like, well, no, I've just, I don't know anything. But do you remember that line from Blackadder? Like a slumbering ultra-generian who claimed never to have heard of the Beatles? I see. No, but I get it. He's talking about high court judges. I've never actually heard of Blackadder before, so I... You're kidding. I'm actually not. What? I don't even know what you're talking about. But that's OK. It's not about me. I'm just trying to think of you. Is how Stephen Fry and Rowan Atkinson got famous. How do you know about Blackadder? Oh, I don't know. They're huge gaps. I'm not, I'm not a knowledgeable man. Sweet baby Jesus in the orphans. Well, you say this, yes. But anyway, so Tokyo Tony is her name. And she's... Anyway, you can look Google Tokyo Tony. That's your end to black, everything. Anyway, she's gray. There's a whole... I mean, YouTube, now the only interesting bits of YouTube that still get views are like these black shows. They're like these massively overproduced shows with these incredibly elaborate sets. And they've got like, you know, 43 people live watching. But the archives and the clips go crazy. Anyway... Man, I've got a series of delights ahead of me. Well, you don't have many black people on this show, so you've got me instead. OK. So you're... I'll be your African-American contingent. I'll introduce you to these things. So, no, I'm kidding. So you're describing a world into which a lot of conventional propaganda has not yet filtered. Well, it's interesting. Or the resistant to it or something. It's interesting because why are you gay? Are you gay? The origin of the born this way, I've just described. I'll just explain it. Yeah. The reality is that these communities who experience this problem a lot, right? The black community, particularly because of fatherlessness. A lot of gay black kids, there's just a lot of them, have this very blunt and truthful... I mean, look, looking at me now, it's impossible to imagine that I used to be a homosexual. But... They hadn't entered my mind. No, but... I knew you during your flaming stage, so I had heard. No, but, but, but there are so many, like, flaming young black men in America today, especially. And this is a problem this community is dealing with. And they don't... Black America is, like, commendably impervious to a lot of the woke PC language and stuff. Very creditably skeptical of vaccines. They won't go along with a lot of this stuff. The proposition, whatever, in California, gay marriage. Why? It's black women who are, like, holding on the fort. So I love Candice Owen so much. The ungovernability of black women is the only thing it might possibly save America. That's embodied in our friend Candice, who is just, like, you know, she's ungovernable in the best possible way. She's not going along with it. She is. Well, to put it mildly. Fair, fair. She is not going along with it. And Candice is a very beautiful, polished, you know, intelligent, sort of microcosm of a trend that you see everywhere in black America now, which is, like, ain't doing that, ain't doing that. Definitely ain't doing that. Wow. And it's very interesting. So they will be very resistant to this stuff. They kind of intuit what white people, I think, have forgotten, because, you know, we're just also, like, bomb-boots of weak and demoralized and, like, kind of overburdened with this nonsense. The truth is that homosexuality, and in particular, conversion therapy, is the first thing upon which the liberals tried what they later did to Trump, which is just this wall of fake news misinformation, propaganda. It's the first time. I mean, there's other examples, like, around wars and things like that. But when it comes to social issues, it's the first time, I think, the press just says, oh, hell, no, except they didn't do that because they're white. But, you know, sometimes I lose the characters get confused. You know, first, I'm going to put Rwanda away. No, so, you know, the first time that the media decides this is a social issue we care about enough because we're going to lose our gay friends, that we're going to just lie and demonize and give the full fake news treatment that we later saw in its most sophisticated form, leveraged, praise God, unsuccessfully against Trump again and again and again. Right? So they start off with this, you know, you were born this way. Haini, you are born this way. Haini, you are beautiful. Whatever you are. No, you're like that because you got raped by a priest or you're like that because your mom was overbearing and your dad wasn't around or you're like that because you failed to form a platonic stable attachments to other men as a child. For some reason, maybe you didn't have a good male role model or whatever, but there is a relatively small number of identifiable and repeated etiologies that mark somebody out as being, you know, vulnerable to this. And you look into the histories of gay people, they will deny it. They're saying, oh, that's just me. But it's not. And they know, they know because I knew and they know. And I talked to them privately when there's no cameras, they could squeeze it out of them. Eventually that you get there. Yes, there's something about their sexual activity they know isn't right. And it's not just the in the technical sense that the sex is sterile and therefore can never be part of the Holy Sacrament of Marriage because it can't be co-procretion with God, right? Co-procretion with God, meaning, you know, you make a physical body with your wife, but then God puts a soul in. Right. And that's why it's the most precious sacrament because, you know, you do the others, you do your conformational rest of it, but it's leading up to you getting to make something with God, right? Which is the real reason that Lucifer is so mad and because the angels can't do that, right? The angels don't get to participate in creation with our Lord. Every single human being does. Yeah. And you feel that too when you have kids, even if you don't know what it is, you feel there's something supernatural coming out here. This is going to sound completely pathetic, but I like I have some kind of some kind of pathetic simulacrum of it. Now I've become a cat dad, just in the terms of like caring for something helpless. Yes. And it's bringing out of me something that I know is going to lead to fatherhood because I'm responsible for this being that loves and laughs and they do, you know, and, you know, and requires regular, not just maintenance, but affection and to be tended to and loved. Like I love dogs. I'm like I used to be more of a dog guy, but I live in a I live in a house on the National Register of Historic Places, so I can't have dogs. And so I just I got a cat one day, you know, just because just because somebody found it in an engine. I was like, so alone. So I said, sure, give me the give it, give it a give it a damn kitten. And at that point, I wasn't sure I was going to drown it, wear it or or or or or nurture it. But but I was just like, oh, OK. And being responsible for shaping the personality, which anybody who has animals who loves animals knows that is 100 percent real, responsible for shaping the personality, nurturing that that being into either being a parent itself or just to be a companion or to be the best that it can be. Right. It's it's bringing something out in me, you know, that wasn't present when I was having a lot of what most people would regard as well, what homosexuals would regard as very desirable kind of sex, you know, with the particular kind of person or whatever. So this you get to the base of it and you get to the heart of it if you're sort of one on one with the gay. But they will they won't just talk about the emptiness of their life or the fact that the sex is sterile or whatever. They will know that there's something not quite right. And so and that its origin is there at something that was not quite right. Have you ever been addicted to anything? Oh, yeah. OK. Big time. So you know, there's that moment when your mind is flooded and it's all you can think about. Yes. And it's all that you can you got to get it out because if you don't do a line or have a smoke or do something, if you don't if you don't get it out, it's just going to be all you can think about the rest of the day. It's just driving you crazy. It floods your mind. Yeah. I've been addicted to one or two little things. And I realized my sex works the same way. I believe that. I realized that when I was on a plane, I'm sitting down, you know, a team one, a sitting on the plane and I'm like, yeah, I have a gin and tonic girl. And then, you know, like a basketball player when I'm basketball player, little gay nerds, but like a football player would sit next to me. Like it would take hold of me. There were times I had to like go to the bathroom and like, you know, yeah, because I because I had to get rid of it because it was it was taking hold of my mind. It sounds like a demon. Yeah, because it's what it is. I joke. I say, Gorgoroth the semen demon, you know, he comes out. Well, he doesn't doesn't visit me very often anymore. You know, but it's totally real. I mean, that stuff is all it's all real. But it but it I realized that I don't do cocaine anymore. But I, you know, it'll shock people to learn. I used to be a bit of a cocaine, you know, when I was, you know, that rush of dopamine, the rituals associated with it as well. You know, I was like, oh, my God, that's that's how I feel about sex. And that's that can't be right. It can't be right. No, it's a it's literally I'm not just trying my gay sex, but any that is literally a perversion. And it is a demon. And it's also other things too, because these things go hand in hand. You know, I mean, I ask how in your own with this unto personal, how did you wind up there? No, I think we are. No, but I just told you, I wanked on you a one seven two. I cracked one out in the bathroom. And people are never going to sit next to me on planes again. I think we're good. Anyone who's ever been while I drink alcohol in the morning. I mean, you know, anyone who's ever been possessed. I'm pretty some British that doesn't count. No, but I'm just any one who's ever been possessed by an obsession. No, it's that it can totally destroy your behavior. But we spend so much time talking in our society about, you know, gay and it's all good. Of course, you know, gay is good and gay rights are good. In fact, they're the marker of human rights. They're the only human right, really. But it is the only human right people still care about. Oh, I you're right to be sodomized. You're right to wake up in the morning like and you're like, oh, OK, you're ready to go. Are you and hear that voice in your mind? And it's not a sultry voice. It's not a sexy voice. It's go and get it. It's, you know, it's it's it's it's go growth. Anyway, sorry, I'm just interrupting you. But that's that's dark. I've thankfully never expressed one of the few problems I don't have. But I get it. That's the kind of so I grind are so dangerous, you know, it's just like within 20 minutes, they can be in the living room. You know, I want to ask you about that. But first, let me ask about your own life because you never get to ask, you know, everyone's telling you how proud they are to be gay and that's great and all that. But to sin, by the way, proud is a sin. Well, I agree with that. But you never get to ask, like, how did this how did you start being gay? Like it was specifically described with, you know, the way I remember it. The way I remember it is I just did it to piss off my mother, but that's not true. I think that's that's self mythologization, you know, like I did and I did take a lot of drug dealers home when I was it was. Were you close to your mom when I was in high school? She married. So I'll answer your question. I'll skip back first. Let me let me do that first. So my dad was in organized crime. Funny, charismatic, brilliant. There are things about like maybe Alex Jones that remind me of him a little bit, just in that kind of like just just in manner, you know, like a bit of a bruiser with the heart, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, he's a bad guy with a heart of gold. Yeah, I've known a few. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I cleave to that kind of personality. It reminds me a little bit of the good bits of my dad, right? But there was another section which Alex does not have, which we'll talk about in a minute. But there was another section which Alex does not have, which was that, you know, he was a bad guy and I saw him do really bad things to people. I would come down and tell this story before, but I've come down sometimes the kitchen door would be closed and I would hear, you know, Nicky, Nicky, I'm giving up a life of crime. I'm turned over a new leaf. I'm not going to do anything that's going to give me any more than 18 months. You know, it's funny, but it's all about goals, Milo. Yeah. He was a bad guy and I saw him do things that really frightened me. And, you know, he was in pubs and nightclubs and running the clubs and the security and sort of like, you know, he's gone now so I can say it, launtering millions, you know? Yeah, well, between those two, you know, like the security guards are on $120 an hour, huh? Yeah, yes, yes, officer. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. Aren't you? Tell them what you're on. It's like 110, 120, 120, you know? So he used to let me sit in the booth and like do the stamps and I would watch people go in and I'd watch the behaviors of like low socioeconomic, white working class, like in their 20s, just, you know, just drinking, f-ing, you know? And then I saw some of the things my dad did and they would start with that joke. They'd start with that very charming joke. They'd start with that alluring joke and my dad had like a degree in f- My dad had a master's in fine art. He was a great sculptor and painter but that was the charming bit of him. The dark bit was, you know, like he would say to people, can I use bad language on the show? Yes, yes, you may. Because you can bleep it but my dad would say like, listen, just because you're in a wheelchair, don't give you the right to be a cunt. He would grab the wheelchair, spin it around and like walk people up to, you know, like to parking lot edges and stuff like that. And I'm sitting in the car like, you know, or he'd go collecting, which means protection rackets. And he would, you know, I would overhear like, Julian, could you take your glasses off please? I don't want to get gloss in my finger when I poke your f-ing eye out. It's very charming, very funny, like very Tony Soprano kind of like that kind of ilk, you know. But I saw some of it and I think maybe somewhere in my head I was like, yeah, if that's being a man, I think I'm out. Because I was in a child, it was frightened. And then my mother left him and married a new guy and he was very like, he's sort of a nice guy now but he would go through all my stuff. Like if I had papers, you know, if I was reading something from school or whatever, he would like, when I was out, go through every page and just sort of leave it like this. It's just that I knew that he'd been in there, you know. And that kind of like invasive, like just horrifying, like, you know, it was just for a very sensitive autistic child like me. I mean, I was already on my way then, you know, having had a much larger than life grandmother who was like, you know, egging this stuff on. And by this time I had had some interactions, sexual interactions with a Roman Catholic priest who's dead now, been dead for a long time. But that had obviously, you know, that fed into it as well. Wait, wait, stop, stop. That obviously fed into it, right. Well, if you're being molested. Well, yeah, also the molestation. No, but really for me, this is the most important to do the other stuff first before you get, oh, and I was raped by a priest. But this sort of psychological torture as I experienced it was, you know, sort of like, I had no private space anywhere. And I knew that all the men in my life were just not things I wanted to become. Yes. And then I cast my mind, see if you let me get to it. Then I cast my mind back to a lovely old rich man in a frock, Father Michael. And I, you know, and I, who had not been like that with me. And one of the things that got me into trouble 10 years ago was when I said I felt like the kind of the aggressor in that situation. I didn't know what bad stuff it had done to me. And at the time I didn't, you know, I made a couple of jokes that got to GOP Inc. Hot and bothered because they're all faggots. And they weren't happy about the some of the truths that we're talking about today kind of toppling out, you know. And so these things combined, the having what I perceived to be at that time, I perceived as a child to be consensual sexual experiences with an older man who was a kindly, kindly sweetheart. You know, he was, I think of him now as a harmless old queen, you know, of course, what he was doing was not harmless. Well, you have a right to any opinion you want about the experiences that happened to you. Well, apparently not. I've been retired for some time as a result. Well, I continue to believe that people are allowed to formulate their own opinions about their own lives. I think you should be able to talk about your rape however you like. I kind of agree with that. And not necessarily have to go on live international television and apologize for it like I did, but I'm not better. Unfortunately, I carved out a much, I have a new kind of career, a new life now that I much prefer is more satisfying, lucrative, blah, blah, blah, we'll talk about it later. So I haven't gone crazy like so many of my friends. And it's funny watching them because I see some of the, in the way that their personalities have become kind of empty and sharded and become filled with wickedness. I see some of the things that I have been working over the last 10 years to get away from that created this sexual behavior. They've become faculties. Well, there does seem to be a connection, but it does, you know, the incidence of closeted homosexuality on the right is like overwhelming. It's like way above what you would imagine is statistically probable. Three straight guys on the right is like Alex, you and I have a floating wildcard just in case I forgot anybody. Who else is there? I mean, maybe the Tates, but who else is there? What is that? I don't understand. There's such a long relationship, a long happy marriage between conservative politics and homosexuality. And it's easy to joke about it and say, oh, it's, you know, all of the bells and smells and frocks of the religious dimension to it all, or it's the pomp and circumstance of power. A New Testament is really tough on homosexuality, so I don't see it as a, that's not, certainly not a Christian thing. It's not a Christian thing, but of course it's easy to understand with the sort of obscene obese heresies of the type that obtain in this country. In a country where prosperity gospel can thrive, who would be surprised, right? It's not an authentic face. We would know it. I sometimes tease you about your denomination, but Episcopalian Church is as close to us as it's possible to get. It was designed to be a mirror to high Anglicanism, which was indistinguishable from Catholicism. And at its best, it's a very similar creed, and with a very similar style and similar beliefs. But as soon as you wander away from that in America, just like men fall. So, but what is, and I'm not attacking anybody, and I never want to out people, because I don't stop my business, right? I've never done it. And I mean, maybe. I live to out people. I live to out people. On which subject, Cory Booker, I left. Did you say? But what is that? Why is there, why is it so common on the right? Well, of course, on the left too, but on the right with closeted gaze. Like, I don't get that. Interesting question. I've never heard a really good answer to. I'll be honest with you. I suppose I should have a good answer to that, but I don't. And I think, but I think if it's about anything, it's about the exercise of power over others. Yes. Because. Feel that. I have no idea exactly why that's true, but I feel that that's true. What's the worst thing about magic? It's not that you can turn a person into a frog or you can make yourself look more beautiful, or you can whatever. What's the worst thing about magic is that it robs others of agency, that you can make them do things they don't want to do. The worst and most sinister bit of magic is that you can trick someone or compel someone against their will to fall in love with you or to throw themselves off a cliff. It's like kind of slavery. Yeah. The most frightening thing about magic is its ability to compel the wills of others. Yes. And that's what I think homosexuals are seeking when they, because they feel so powerless in their own lives and have this understanding that they are broken people without agency over their own sex lives, over their bodies, over that down there. Like I don't even have control over me, but I'm damn well going to have control over you. That's, I think, a lot of it. And so if you dovetail that in with the more. I know you're telling the truth here. I don't fully understand what you're saying, but it comports with a lot of what I've seen. I feel as though if you are a person who intuits that you have a lack of control of power, of agency over your own drives, your own desires, your own urges, and the even your biological, anatomical, your physical responses, like I can't stop getting aroused by men. What is that? You're going to want to exercise power elsewhere over others. That's so interesting. And being sucked into the nexus of intersectional. You're going to be tempted by explicit magic as well as the implicit magic of whatever. And so dovetail that with right wing authoritarianism. And I have to say, I'm sorry to say it, I must say it, some dimensions in some respects, I can see that that might be something that tracks homosexuals to the Catholic Church, for instance. Just the illusion of being a bishop. Or national review magazine. You don't just say me, it's all right. I'm happy to talk about the Catholic element of it. I mean, the bishops are all faggots. I mean, they're all whoopsies. They're all whoopsies? Gays. I like that one. It contains within it a kernel of the sort of slapstick that I think we have to... One of the ways I got myself off it was imagining myself in that situation as ridiculous. I can't even perceive that I would do something so ridiculous. Like laughing at it became... Because you know I laughed at the death of Arousal, right? I totally agree. So I read this, or something like that went off in the back of my head. Anyone who's ever been laughed at naked can tell you that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, never have, but... I haven't either. No, but I mean, you know, it's a famous British, particularly a British injunction, you know, that laughters the death of Arousal or whatever. And I just thought, okay, well, how about if I start thinking about it as ridiculous? Because it is ridiculous. I mean, you and the football team, like it is ridiculous. And so that's one of the ways I got myself off it. But no, this... That is so true. Seeing themselves as powerless even to control their own bodies and knowing on some level, I think homosexuals seek out those places. And you know, you see on the left as well... This is why you might want to bomb Iran and Venezuela or Iraq. Yeah, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb. What's gayer? What's gayer? I'm not saying he was practicing homosexuality, but was there anything gayer than John McCain's like blood lust? It seems through this... I agree. Or his protege. It seems through this prism. I mean, he's even got the fat friend. It's his daughter. You know, like, he even bred the fat best friend, you know? Like, is there a more ostentatious like Fag Haggin America than Meghan McCain? You know, she hates herself. She's fat. She's crazy. She's every gay man's dream. You know, she can't dress. You know, she's... Why is that every gay man's dream? Because they want to visit upon their female friends the cruelty they wish that they could perform on their mothers. They want to make her feel fat and ugly and ridiculous because that's what their mother did to them. And there was no dad around to protect them on their mother. It was just this overbearing trouble. You know, it's sort of the Jungian devouring mother. All of this has been banned in the United States. So I don't even think people are familiar with these concepts anymore. Right. So I'll try to keep it simple. Imagine like a female Lutheran pastor or a female Jewish rabbi. And then it's like, you know... Hey, it's great to grieve. That's for a TV show. But you know what I'm saying? One of those, right? This is horrible overbearing monstrousness that on some level the homosexual knows is what's made him like this. Because he knows... Dad wasn't around so mom did it. Right. By the way, this is why trans was so popular because it got parents off the hook. If you've got a gay kid, you know you did something. But if your kid has a disease and was born into the wrong body, well, that's not your fault, is it? And you go with sympathy and all your friends will, oh, do you got a trans kid? I have tough for you. No, you got to faggot because you're a... You raise a faggot because you're a terrible parent. You know, that's what's really going on. They want to avoid that. So instead, no, I'm going to chop its ding dong off and say it's got a disease. Like that's why it was so popular with single moms. Amazing. That's why trans was so popular with single moms. Because it got them off the hook. It means they didn't turn their son gay when they know they did. They know they did. They know they did. And the sons know they did. And the sons grow up being cruel to women because of what mom did to them. So they're hostile toward their moms, even though... Many gay men I've known have had very close relationship. But it's a toxicity. It's a co-dependent relationship that they know is... So sometimes they can't visit this cruelty on their mom because they have this close relationship with their mom, but they do it on other women. It's redirected, right? It's transferred onto other women. Because they love a mommy. Like, why would I do that? My mom, but on some level, they know that son. So she did that. She did that. So they force women into ever more uncomfortable and ever uglier outfits and throw them down runways in 10-inch heels. Or they... What? So you think the fashion industry is acting this out? Of course it is. I mean, what other explanation could there be for the intolerable ugliness of the catwalk? You were blowing my mind on so many levels, I can't even... I mean, sure, we used to have, when society was working properly, you would go... Have you ever seen Mrs. Harris Goes to Paris? No. It's a lovely movie about a charlady, a housekeeper... Yes, housekeeper, yes, to Americans. See, I don't know charlomans, and you've never seen Mrs. Harris Goes to Paris. Who dreams of one day owning a couture d'or dress, like the person she works for. And she saves up and she saves up and there's calamities with her money and some boyfriend... Eventually, she manages to go to Paris and she manages to get the dress. And when society was properly ordered, there were these aspirational beauty standards and these aspirational lifestyle goals that included gorgeous tailoring and beautiful silhouettes for women that accentuated their... Of course, Keshav's... It's not like that now, is it? It's not like that now? No, and it's funny, I don't know much, I don't know really anything about fashion, but I love female beauty, of course. But you don't see any of it on the catwalk? Exactly, in fact, you see... You see the opposite. You see the opposite. You see... Manufactured ugliness. And turning women into the demons they see themselves as. You see gay... Look at the most celebrated woman on the stage at the moment is the Gorgon opposite Ariana Grande, whose name I forget now. You know, the Nosferatu, like black Nosferatu, who seems to be sucking the life force out of poor Ariana, who's, I think, going to die within the next few weeks. If you've seen that singer's physique lately, she's sort of... But this appalling apparition, Cynthia or something, I think, of course, she's called Cynthia, with these claws, and you look at the silhouette and you're like, that's literally Nosferatu. And I know a gay man did that. And she also gay man then put her on stage in Jesus Christ Superstar as our Lord. Did you know that? No. You've seen the person I'm talking about, right? No. Okay, well, you'll google it later, but it's this spindly... It's just straight-up goblin-looking black woman. And I'm not trying to have a Roseanne moment, although she was right, but this woman is ugly by any racial status, just monstrous-looking, right? Just what our mothers might have called deeply unfortunate, right? Yeah. And practically circus-level. And of course, she's the heroine of the billion-dollar franchise now, Wicked, and she's on stage as Jesus. Which... So it's an act of hostility, is what you're saying? Exactly, exactly. And so these gay men who feel the will of Gorgoroth inside them, they're like, do it, do it. And turn these women into the demons they see inside themselves. The demons they see acting on. This is a lot deeper than I expected. But when I texted you to have this conversation... It's more than you would imagine from a guy wearing this t-shirt. No, it's not actually. And by the way, can I say one thing that's bothered me for years when I was a child? There was a lot of creativity coming from gay men in the United States. It's all gone now. I know. And if Dave Rubin is responsible, not him personally, but I mean like... But do you know what I'm talking about? I mean, of course. And why? Because... A lot of free thinking. And I was related to one of them. And I spent a lot of time in my house, lived under my house when I was a kid and gay died of AIDS, you know, and had a lot of problems. But I will say, creative free thinking. Free thinking, like truly free thinking. But this is... Gourvidal was like the archetype. This is Birkean. There are no Gourvidal's in gay world that I'm aware of. They're all like conformists and supporting the man. Like what? The only ones these days are ex-gay. But do you know what I'm talking about? Yes, and it's Birkean. It's because creativity arises out of order. There has to be limits. And if homosexuality is not proscribed as wretched and kept at the fringes where it belongs, creativity dies. And what do you get? Because you don't have those people playing with the limits. You don't have the taboo breakers. You don't have the artists, the creatives living at the limits of society. They're brought instead. I have to say... I think the gay community such as this is one of the least creative, most conformist elements of our society. I never thought I would say that. They become the enforcers just like... They're the enforcers. There's a Victorian guard for Apple and Microsoft. Just like the white women of folklore who are... Responsible or evil. But they become turbocharged cairns. The white women who welcome in... White single moms typically... But single moms generally, I think, who bring in a drag queen story hour. Because there's no gay people banging down the door. No, that's right. There's no gay people like... Excuse me, can I come read your children's? Do you mind? Can I come read stories of your kids? No, they're not. They're not. But there are demons out there who will come do it if you invite them. Because what do you have to do with demons? Open a portal. Open a doorway. You know? So these women open the doorway and in comes... Three little things. But the gays now have taken this role. They've taken the mantle over from... We used to say it, didn't we? We used to say white single moms are root of all evil. Like half joking. Because of all the crazy stuff they support. But now it's homosexuals. I have to be honest with you. I bear some responsibility for this. Because it was me, 10 years ago, mainstreaming homosexuality in the Republican Party. It's a great regret of my life. More so than anything I've done to my own soul. Which is a lot. It's the great regret of my life. Because it has given rise to horrors I never imagined. Let me say Lenin said all revolutionaries come to hate their children. While the gay horrors that I've given birth to, Lady Marga, Nick Fuentes, they keep me up at night. They keep me up at night. Why did you mention Dave Rubin? What's his role? Well, because he is at the vanguard, along with another of other gays in public life, of introducing children into the equation. Because when you do what I did, which is like, gay is just like everyone else, you be a normal gay. I remember, and this is the thing I regret more than anything else in the world, there's a video of Ross Matthews in 2017 on Twitter saying, So I came home and landscape has been in. We're getting more citrus. You can never have too much citrus. And people are asking me, Ross, what do you think about this Milo guy? And I'm like, Milo, Milo, how low can you go? I don't know this person, it's better we did. And he says, I'm getting letters. This Milo guy, he's resigning from Breitbart or something. And he says, I'm getting letters from people who say, you make it okay that I have a gay son, because if he grows up, he doesn't have to be like Ross Matthews. And I'm like, no, they should be like Ross Matthews. They should be like Ross Matthews. They shouldn't be like Dave Rubin. Like you might not even know, unless you watched him for a little bit, because this domesticity of homosexuals has killed all the things that were good about gays that made them like tolerable. And instead has given them this grotesque parody, the simulacrum of domesticity, which has, of course, in their never-ending hunger, expanded to include babies. And now we have the Buttigieg couple buying black children. I thought you weren't allowed to buy people. I thought, oh no, you can't if you're homosexual. But I thought that was... It's called adoption or sargassia, whatever, but you can buy them. I thought it was called slavery. In fact, you have to buy them, because it's quite expensive. Is it some online slave market? No, no, no, it's the government. But Dave Rubin has like frankensperm babies. Like he mixed his effluvia with that of his husband. I mean, this is real. This is physical. Gave it a stir and hoped for the best. And I wish everyone we get, we get. And planted it in some highly paid woman will never know the name of, the real mother of those children. And he and his catamite are on the internet with these signs like, it's coming with these two dates. And I'm like, yeah, you're damnation. That's the date you're counting down to. The date you're... How is that conservative? Oh, because it's family, you see. The sleight of hand that's going on is like, well, gay is it just like everybody else? So we should behave like everybody else, which means we should have kids. And if we can't physically have kids, because our sex is this demonic sterile horror show, then we'll buy them and they will look like we've got... I mean, that's how bad it is. That's how bad it is. And so you have the... I love... I don't know if it says anything about Republicans versus Democrats, but you have like Dave Rubin, for whom buying a child is not good enough, it must be his own, you know? Like the conceit of that. So on the right, you've got this sort of techno conceit, Franken-baby. And on the left, they adopt blacks. You know, you've got these two wispy, wiry faggots who adopted two black babies. I mean, isn't Buddha Jishis just the most interesting character of our age? Like, I mean, it doesn't look like he looks like an intensely boring homosexual. Everything gay people shouldn't be, but it's so interesting the fact that, I mean, clearly he wasn't gay, like at the beginning. Well, he had girlfriends. Right. So he wasn't gay, but he made himself gay. I made that point because actually I had gay men who worked for me, who were more in tune with this than me. I'm not in tune at all. I just didn't, I thought Peter put his judge into the joke, but they said, well, he's not really gay. And I was like, no. So what does that mean? Well, his sexuality, like all homosexuality, is a function, a product, a symptom. What is his homosexuality a symptom of? It's of his vaulting ambition. Buttegich timed it perfectly so that post Obama, the gay guy with the black kids, perfect presidential candidate. So to the heterosexual brain, it's like, are you really saying a guy would switch his quote, sexuality in order to get a better job? Yeah. Yeah. Women do it all the time. Lesbianism has got nothing to do with male homosexuality. Everybody knows they got a girlfriend who was a lesbian in college. Yeah, everybody. You could barely find a woman who hasn't played around with a woman. Queen Victoria didn't believe that this was sex, or that two women would do that with one another, and she refused to accept that women even did that very wisely, realizing that lesbianism wasn't real. And so lesbianism wasn't illegal in Britain for a long time when male homosexuality was. But female sexuality is known in the studies to be far more malleable. Women go backwards and forwards between men all the time. And lesbianism is a series of social and political decisions. Women want companionship, they want stability, they want safety. They can find that in a woman. You can find that in a butch dyke just as easily as you can find it in an American man these days. I'm sorry. At least she can cash in her Harley-Davidson. What have you got? You know... But, um... Sorry. I love the jackets, we'll go for something. You know, the warehouse full of eyeliner you've got. No, I... I joke but only slightly. We've seen women do it. Seen women do it. They do it all the time. They choose to be lesions all the time. So you don't find the... I realize it sounds extreme and implausible. Well, to me anyway, it's like... But we're dealing with a sociopath here. We're dealing with somebody who's entirely divorced from his own feelings, right? We're dealing with somebody who will do anything, go anywhere, be anything. I mean, are you telling me, like... Is it so crazy that he would get... That he would have a boyfriend and adopt these kids? Is it so much more insane than a gay man living in the closet and having a wife and having sex with her and producing children with her? Is it so nuts? Okay, so probably more sex involved. Fair, fair. Is it just like that on steroids? Like, is it so bonkers? And that's where gay people should be, by the way, in the closet, praying to get better. Um, but is it so wild? It's not wild. No, you're right. I just hadn't thought of it that. And gay men have been doing that for centuries. Well, I know a bunch of them. Right, right, of course we have. Well, you working, and I used to work in, conservative media, and... It's all of them, it's everybody, it's everybody. They're all faggots. They're all gay, all of them are gay, all of them are gay. Like, everyone is gay. I haven't said anything about it for like 30 years, just because of my just general Anglo commitment to not get involved in other people's business. But it's so noticeable. I just don't know what... Clearly there's something going on here. I think it's the exercise of power of brothers as we talked about. I think it's really smart. But in this case, the Buttigieg, I find him fascinating because he's... He's misjudged, but only slightly, what would be required to be the perfect presidential candidate, like in 2028, 2024, right? And he starts off and he's got girlfriends, he's in the military. He's living a normal American life. And then, Chasen. I mean, like if you want to... They say that ex-gays often go for like, near Eastern women, because they're not sexually demanding and they look like boys from behind, like some Malaysian girls, when they come to have wives. But isn't Chasen kind of like the closest thing you can get to a girl? Because it's sort of, if you need to simulate the girl of a woman, you know, I've slept with my over-cabbage girl, you know? I don't think I know what Chasen looks like. Well, you're blessed. His husband is... If you don't know that, then you might know the expression aged out twink. But he's about as the most effeminate man that you could... Oh, is that true? Yeah. Not in the kind of like... Whereas Pete has that kind of fake radio voice, like... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know... And it is a fake voice, because you can find recordings of him earlier. And he's got more into it, the more gay his life has become. Really? Yeah, like the base. The diaphragm. It's like, talk from your stomach, Pete. Talk from your stomach. You can imagine Chasen before he goes on stage. Remember babes from your stomach, he's like... Lola, from down here. You can just imagine. Remember what Lindsay said? You know, the speech coach, you taught him how to sound heterosexual. You know, whatever. But no, no, it's going down. It's like sinking. It's like there's something in there. Working its way through this like, achingly slow form of peristalsis. You know, just like gradually finding its way down. Eventually he's going to sound like Gorgoroth. You know, he sort of really realises his full potential. No, he's fake. He's not gay. He's not gay. He's not gay. There's a doubt in my mind. He's not gay, but he's performing homosexuality because, including having the sex, you know, but probably not a lot of it. I mean, you don't imagine them, you know, well, I don't want you to imagine anything. I don't wish to leave an unpleasant taste in your mouth like that. But I'll suggest to your viewers that it's not a particularly sexual thing. It's not a particularly sexually active couple, which might also explain how it's possible for somebody to do that. Right? In the same way that a DL gay guy wouldn't be a particularly sexual husband. Right. Our gay marriage is monogamous. That's funny. Oh, you mean it? Well, I sense that they're not having known some, but are any, I guess, is what I would ask. I mean, I think you get that sort of elderly antiques dealer in Kentucky kind of. You know, you get that you get so good. You know, we have a senator like that who, you know, I think if he, if he found a husband, it was prepared to put up with them. I really shouldn't. I really shouldn't, but look up the lady bugs. Look up his lady bugs. It's on the internet. We have so many senators like that. It's crazy. Well, I think people know the one. The actual one from Kentucky. No, no, no. A little bit over. You know, you can imagine he sort of invites his friend, a Jasper in for a mint julep. You know, you know, and it's like, do you want to just sit there while I go and get myself dusted? You know, like, like, yes, of course there are loads, loads, but I'm thinking of the one in particular, everybody kind of. He said you don't out people. So I feel like. No, sorry, sorry, sorry. I'm not going to use Mitch McConnell's name. It was Lindsey Graham. Oh, sorry. But, but, um, no, I just, uh, it's a shame, isn't it? This, the falling over the, the, the, like, how long are you going to stagger on? They're determined to turn themselves into the goblins that dictate their behavior. Well, that's the thing about, and I'm not, yeah, it's that there's, there's some bloodthirstiness that's just really distressing and offensive to me. But actually, but think about it like this. The sassy, vindictive, catty cruelty of the homosexual. Imagine what he'd be like if you gave him a nuclear button, right? Sounds stupid, but it's, it's a continuum. It's a spectrum, right? And so those gays that have the will to power, they go get some and they use it to bomb people or to, um, bully or to, I mean, how much must they all get off on the fact that they are all having sex and nobody would dare touch it? Nobody, nobody outs them, nobody says a thing. And they're all living lies to their concern. This is, I mean, we were joking earlier about, um, about outing people, but like, that's why I have a thirst for it because it's hypocrisy. It's public hypocrisy. I'm not interested in outing like, you know, Joe Simpson who has a corner store. Right. I'm interested in outing people who are misrepresenting themselves to the public and I'll ask, you know, somebody just got married with wedding pictures and with engagement pictures that are so absurd. I know. I figured him out by the way. I figured him out. I could never work out this guy. I was like, what is it that's off with you? And I realized he always wants a bigger laugh than the joke he tells commands. And it's because he's actually obese, but in the body of a merely fat person. Like if you think of him as like 400 pounds, he suddenly makes sense because he's always doing this. You know, and you're like, oh, you're a fat person. You're a giant fat person. So he's like a really fat gay in the body of like a, a merely slightly overweight gay. And suddenly his personality begins to make sense. He does all these like fat, you know, he's got these like fat tics that fat people do to like get a bigger laugh than, than, than their wit would normally allow for, you know. You know what I mean? Like, is it, and everybody, everybody laughs along anyway, because they're fat. You know, the fabulous is funny because they're fat. You know, and he's like, he's like, he acts like he's funny because he's fat, but he's not fat. You're talking about Cory Booker. Yeah. So just back to the question though, is, so is monogamy an expectation in a gay marriage? No, I think, well, I think it's an aspiration. I think it's a, I think it's a stated ambition. But, you know, like all ambitions, you know, we, we, we state something we know we can never reach because in grasping for it, we, we, we, you know, we achieve greatness. And so, and so maybe they only have sex with 20 people a year instead of 200, you know, and that's, that's gay. That's, that would be, that would be gay fidelity. That would be gay. Really? Oh yeah. I'm leaving it. I mean, I'm maybe I'll tell you, but like, because there's no woman there to enforce it. So I have a, exactly. And the, and normally no kids to the blah, blah, blah. How could you do this to your children? But this is why, this is why living, this is why living on the DL in marriage with a woman is the optimum environment for a homosexual because all of the social cues are pushing them to do the, what they know that they should be doing anyway, which is working on eradicating these disordered urges as the religious, religious ex-gays would put it, or, or, or unwanted same sex attraction as the reparative therapists would have it. Whatever it is, all of the, the cues and the pressure is moving them in the right way. And so, you know, I mean, that's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, Alan Turing for God's sake, you know, I was living like that. Who was? Alan Turing, you know, the, the, he was living like that. And they castrated him anyway, which seems a bit mean to me after the war, after he won the war for them. It's like, okay, that's, that's all brilliant, but we're going to chemically castrate. You know, it's a bit gratuitous to me. It's like, come on, come on, come on. I let him crack one out after he won the bloody war for you. All right, all right. So Britain can, you know, Brits can be savage like that, you know. So do you know, like the happiness level of people who are involved in promiscuous gay sex? Like what's it? When you, when you live that kind of life, you live it, you're living deep in profound denial. And it comes from, I read something in, in, maybe it's the Atlantic or mother Jones, some of all places, you know. Some left-wing gay guy who just wrote about this really beautifully. I'll try to find it in Twitter after this, but he said, when, when, when homosexuals are young, they realize they have to put on different faces for different people. I guess the racial equivalent be code switching, right? Yeah. And they re, and the effect of this on a person who has disordered urges, unlike someone who just happens to be black, is that it begins to like create cracks and ultimately that turn into like shards in the personality, like bits of the personality like burst, ping, ping off like a chandelier that felt the floor. And it's so sad. Yeah. And it produces the space for profound denial of the type that most homosexual men find themselves in, where that flooding of addictive urge is mistaken for healthy and normal sexual attraction. And so I kind of stumbled when I, when I looked into, I just woke up one day and I was like, and I was married to a dude. That's to my shame. And I, who's now like the ex-wife from hell, my God. Look, if there's no other reason to like not be gay, just imagine like how bad a black homosexual ex-wife is. Oh, like, I'm not even going to go there. You don't even want to know. It's like, oh, sorry, it was two sports cars a year, wasn't enough. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. It's done even. But when I woke up one day and I woke up one day and I looked over and I was like, oh, no, I don't want to do this anymore. Like, hell is real. I don't want to go there. And it just hit me like after it was growing. You know what? I was just like, no, no, I really don't want to go there. And I know what am I doing? And the way that I started to address this, I kind of stumbled upon a crude version of what the enlightened, like they don't call it conversion therapy anymore. They call it reintegrative therapy because it's reintegrating those shards and those broken bits of like memory that lead to the wrong output. We can talk in detail if you want to, but I stumbled upon kind of like a crude version of that. So when I was trying to stop myself from doing this stuff, I was using like hot oil on my thighs. I was like doing things, you know, like, like, like that hurt. And I was trying to rewire my brain because I read a lot of psychology and anthropology books and stuff like that. So I thought, I don't know. Sex urge is such a basic and powerful urge. It's got to be hard. I just thought I knew what I was doing. So it was like every time I get aroused, I'm going to go and do something that hurts, you know? And so I took the, you know, like paying my taxes. No, you know, like having sex with black people. No, no, no. I did something immediately to try to redo that. And there's a much better way to do it, which I can talk to you about. But I was, I was, I think I was recognizing in that that I had this, that something had jumped the tracks in my brain, right? And I was having an incorrect response to a particular stimulus as a result of damage, trauma, whatever. And that, and that it's a little bit like being a PTSD victim or some other kinds of sexual deviants, right? And that I knew, I knew that I could train my way out of it because at the same time I had been returning to the Catholic faith of my childhood. And I had been speaking to a different, she's a very brilliant professor in Chicago. She's a world's leading expert on marrying devotion to the Middle Ages. And she was, she was, she was kind of like feeding me this rich material about, you know, training the soul in virtue. And I was, I was like, okay, well, if I can do that, because I'm getting pretty good at that. Like, what about this? And so I did this stuff. And I got myself as far as celibacy, which is where I'm coming in January, it'll be five years. Oh, celibacy. Yeah. And the good thing about the male libido is the less you have, the less you want, which married men can tell you. Is this the only reason they're still married? You know, it's like sugar though. The more you eat, the more you want. It is exactly like that. Why? Because it's an appetite, not a sexual orientation. It's an appetite, an addiction. And the more that you have cocaine or Adderall, the more that you are likely on a given Tuesday afternoon to be like, ooh, Lyme would be nice. Or, ooh, why don't I have a little, little, little instant release 30 milligrams? I'll get me through the day, you know. It works the same. It functions the same. It is the same. I remember reading during the AIDS period about, you know, like the number of sexual partners a year, which is like crazy high. I think it's all banned and I don't want to talk about it anymore. But, um, and thinking, you know, if those were all like hot girls, would I want to sleep with 75? Probably wouldn't be able to get through it. Honestly, I don't think most trade men would be like, yeah, you know, I mean, you know, men are obviously pigs and like variety and all. You know, but you hit on something real, which is that. Well, I'm trying to be as honest as I can. I'm sure I'll be mocked for this, but I did wonder like if it's, could you go there? There's something wrong with the act itself if you're doing it that many people, right? Yes. Now there's a component of it where it's like the women are setting up the friction there. They're the ones with the precious jewel that you know, they're setting up barriers to, right? Men will put out like if a man wants to have sex, like they're normally the person asking for the sex, right? Right. They're normally the ones who are seeking the sex. Women, normally the ones who are, I wouldn't say withholding it, but regulating the access to it, let's say, as the enforcers for sure. Take that away and of course, and put two men on there and you're like, well, if they both want it, they're both going to do it all the time. Of course. But that doesn't really explain the... Exactly. Doesn't explain. That was my thought. It's like if there was no limit. Stent. If good-looking women wanted, this is my younger self thinking this, if they wanted to sleep with me as much as I wanted to sleep with them, I still don't think I'd sleep with 75 of them in a year because that sounds kind of gross. Well, I mean, by gay standards, that's a practically celibate. I mean, maybe not these days with the boring gays that adopt the children who don't have sex with each other and just molest the kids, but by the old-fashioned gay standards of the taboo breakers. I mean, I grew up in London taking a lot of fucking drugs, going to a lot of clubs, going to a beef there, and then of course, in London, you had a circuit of clubs, trade and beyond, and DTPM, whatever. There was like a circuit every weekend. It was four continuous days, which you could only really do with drugs and during that time stops off for sex. I mean, 75 is like, takes you up to February. Actually? I mean, I probably was a lot worse than usual and I group scenarios and whatever, but yeah. I mean, it doesn't fully explain the grotesque extent. And by the way, it's always the gay couples that are basically lesbians that live sterile, like, they live these like sexless lives who are incensed when you dare to talk about gay promiscuity. It's not because gay promiscuity doesn't exist, it's because they don't have access to it, but most gays do. And what we are thinking about in our hypothetical example of two men doesn't explain the full grotesque extent of it, and it's because there is something unsatisfying about gay sex. Well, that was my assumption. And you're correct. And it's it's it's So Catholic natural law and the way that a lot of therapies work, they start with this presumption that things are working properly when they are performing the function for which they were designed. Yes. Right. Clearly an erect member going into the wrong orifice is not doing is not performing the function for which it was designed. Right. So sex that ends that way to cannot possibly be satisfying. It's not permissible spiritually. It's not satisfying physically. So if you take Catholic church teaching, for instance, I think that's real and that's true for eating and it's true for beauty and it's true for the sex is sterile. But every pleasure that's like a righteous pleasure satisfies you. Yeah, I don't need 15 of them, right? Like justice feels good. You know, when you see somebody with a get to come up and send you like, yeah. And that feels like a lot of that feels it feels a little like, as you say, righteous pleasures, all of which tend toward the kind of satisfaction that you, a lot of people describe getting in Holy Communion communion. It's filling, right? It is filling. It is filling that little wafer is very filling. Right. The further you get away from that, the less satisfying things are by volume, if you like, that tiny little wafer, which is complete, you feel like you don't need to feel, eat, drink, think, pray anything else the rest of your whole life. You just feel like perfect in that moment. Like you have because you are just in that brief moment in dialogue with with our Lord in some fashion. And you're like, that's my Sunday vibes, you know, like whatever it is. And it's not until Monday morning that life kind of comes comes back at you. The further you get away from that, the more stuff you need to approach the same level of satisfaction. Think about like the the fake sugar you have, right? Over here, the cornstarch, whatever it's called, how much Hershey's chocolate you have to eat to feel the same as two squares of capers. Right. Or how many Reese's Peanut Butter Cup sequels of steak. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, I really noticed that. I mean, by the way, you know, Halloween candy, you can, I don't know, I don't know much about calories, but you could eat like millions of calories, but you can't eat six pounds of steak, as it's not possible. But the point is that not the sugar is bad necessarily, but that this fake sugar that has that waxy taste that's not really right. You need so much more of it to feel satisfied to get your sugar here. That is totally right. And in so doing, you have so many more calories, right? And you start to get fat. And then then then you need not just six coax, but eight coax a day instead of one. So homosexual sex is sterile. It's not capable of leading to production. Excuse me, of procreation, right? You cannot make a baby with gay sex. It is spiritually unsatisfying in addition to being. And of course, these two things are connected physically unsatisfying too. And when you start to think about like everything working, performing the function for which it was designed, like doing that for which it was intended, you start to realize why gay sex is like, is not hitting, you know? And this is the basis. This is the start. This is where the therapy begins. It begins. We can ask you one last question before you describe how your life has changed and. I don't mean to rush on to that. No, no, no, no. I'm fascinated by it, but I. I just find it so interesting. So you spent like an hour and 20 minutes describing the hell that you lived. You thought it was hellish. You laughed. And you, it sounds like you feel better and certainly resolved. But you're not encouraged to feel that way. Like there's something about the life that you live that's treated like a gang initiation or something like you can check in, but you can never leave. Like you're not welcome to leave. Well, just look at the comments. You get like, forgive the language, but under every post that I will make online or every, every, you know, on the rare occasion, I might say something about this in an interview. One phrase keeps popping up over and over again in the comments. You can't unsuck a dick. Meaning there's no salvation for you. Once you're gay or gay, you're gay, you're homosexual. But that's it. Who's pushing that? The stain that that leaves, right? Which is profoundly un-Christian. I mean, we think about Isaiah, right? You know, your sins may be scarlet, but they'll be washed white as snow. That's all became Paul. Right. Doesn't exist for these people. And it's often leftist, but not always. Insisting on this permit, the permanence of this stain. And it's, there's more to it than merely just, I hate you and I want you to hurt or you're doing something stupid or whatever. It's something more going on. And it's, people are terrified by the idea that this might not be an intrinsic part of a person's personality or nature. Yes. Why? Why are they afraid of that? I thought we were for personal choice. Well, we're all a bit afraid of that, aren't we? Because we're all kind of like, you know, we see other people who are doing well in life or who have got themselves out of a sticky situation or, you know, who left their phone on the table when they went for the bathroom and break or whatever. And who lash out against others who do seem to be achieving something redemptive. And isn't it true that one of those characterizations of the demons is that they're, you know, in the presence of the light and the presence of good, of the word of God, they hiss and spit, right? And it's not necessarily these people who are gay themselves, but they took to confront the horror that a gay person might be able to un-gay. It means that whatever you've got going in your life, you could fix easy, you know, like, but you don't want to, do you? You don't want to get better. You don't want to stop. Because if he can stop having sex with men, knowing what a powerful compulsion urge that is for most men, you know, that might mean I have to stop drinking. That might mean I have to stop taking drugs. That might mean I have to stop being a fat ass. That might mean I have to stop being cruel, being vindictive, abusive, malicious. And I think that part of it is certainly that we have become a society that encourages vice over virtue, that aggressively pushes sin. Yes. Why? Because dumb, dependent people are easier to control because dumb, dependent people living paycheck to paycheck enslaved not only to... And we live in a particularly evil environment now where we're not just enslaved to things. We're enslaved to the mechanisms by which we get them, compound interest. You know, our car payments, all this kind of stuff, like 50-year mortgages, yeah, thanks, Trump. How many years of that are we just paying down the interest before we own a brick in the house, you know? We're now enslaved to these like meta addictions or these additional layers of problem, which mean that we can't even do anything about our lives because one missed paycheck and we're, you know... We can't do anything about it because we're locked in from every single angle into our addictions, into our compulsions, into the bad food that we eat at the supermarket because it's cheap, and the TV we watch, we know we shouldn't, and we're not just playing games that are fine by themselves, but which, you know, 20 hours over the weekend, like that's a lot, bro. You know, just all this stuff and it's packaged and it's pushed and it's encouraged and just look at the sponsors. I looked at the sponsors of Jimmy Kimmel's show when he was taken off the air, and it's donuts and banks. Look at the sponsors of Jimmy Kimmel's show and you're like, oh my God, like these are evil, wretched, terrible people who just want you fat, stupid and quiet. There's no question in my mind you're telling the truth. It's too obvious. And what you dumb and dependent. And do you think the relentless promotion of homosexuality is part of that? Because it is relentlessly, tirelessly promoted, period. Anyone says it's not a wire. What is more incapacitating? What is more incapacitating having no control over your own sexual desires? And just look at how comfy capitalism has made itself with homosexuals. Like, oh, you've got no kids. Well, perhaps you'd like these designer clothes. You know, oh, you don't have any dependence. Well, maybe you'd like to spend way more than you should on this cruise. You know, or whatever, I mean, boat cruise. You know, oh, all your disposable income is yours to spend. Well, perhaps you'd like to try. We do have a special this evening, sir. Like our pan roasted blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, the, the, the, the, they used to call it the pink pound in England. This disproportionate ability of gaze to spend, which has a reinforcing effect. It's like a, like a, like a, I don't know the economic term, but you probably do. It's like a magnifying or a fortifying effect because of course, gay spend more so you market more to gaze. So you get more, you know, so you get more of them. Yes. And then other people begin to acquire gay taste, which has happened to women and is now happening to men because it's seen as a prestige or a luxury or a, or a desirable kind of lifestyle. So you see men as the charming ladies of YouTube would tell us, Thackataz who are, are, are acquiring gay habits and get like, I mean, like soul cycle for it. I mean, please, what are these people doing? It's like, you're in a lycra and you want me to see your ass. Got it. He's doing nothing. What are their gay habits for men acquiring? Definitely a food, which I mean, like if you're, if you're a chap, as far as in the hotel last night, as I was thinking about this show and I looked at the menu and I was like, there's nothing on here for men. It was all these like seafood, a bit, but the hand, whatever. And the guy was serving me. I had a huge ginger beard. God bless him. And, and I said, you don't eat here. And he said, well, and I said, you don't eat here. Where do you eat? And he said, okay, fine. And I said, is there anything on here that you would eat aside from this? And he didn't say how big the filet was, but I was like, what is it? Six ounces? We need four of those. And he was like, yeah. I was like, you work here and it was like, you wouldn't eat anything because there's nothing for men on the menu. Cause it's all this like airy, fairy, unsatisfying, calorie rich, full of like, you know, flavor, but no protein food for girls. Or food for girls. Look at the menu in your favorite restaurant. Look at the menu in every restaurant. There's no food for men on it. I mean, like where is it? Even, even like a heroic meat, like lamb. It's like $78 to this little, this little like, thanks. Thanks so much. What is that? That's not man food. So food for sure. I mean, clothing, let's not even. Sexual habits. Women have become plagiarized by the promiscuity culture that their gay best friends, you know, like to, to sort of have a nudge in a wink kind of relationship with like, oh, I don't do it. But who's this? Oh, just Jamal. You know, who's this? It's not the guy that you were with like three days ago. Quiet girl. Sorry about her. You know, like just all that kind of stuff. And, and, and men just the way in which the self destructive sacrifice, self sacrifice, the relinquishment of, of, of the will to the most addictive version of everything is very gay. Very gay. Most addictive version of everything. So like if gay sex is like addiction where it just floods your mind with like the chemicals where you can't get it out of your head. Like we were talking about right at the beginning. Yeah. Well, the food has become like that and the clothes have become like that. And, and the, you know, like men buying designer clothes has always been a bit sus to me. Oh, I totally agree. Like I'm, I mean, I do it because I'm like, I've got about another three years where I can still get away with this. And then I'm going to have to just be straight. But, well, I can still do it. You know, and then I'm going to have to find like some, some like, I don't know if I have to find my own nudge in a wink thing. Like, oh, no, they're not Dorsey and Maro. They're Arilano. Oh, let's see. It's the late Pope Benedict XVI favorite shoemaker from Raj. You fact attached. Stop it. You know, I have to give all this up. But, but somebody's been heterosexual all their life. Like what are you doing in deal? Well, I mean, they only make shoes. I think. I know this male deal now that what are you doing? It's Chanel that doesn't do men's clothes. What are you doing in Dolce & Gabbana? What are you doing in Versace? Why are you spending $1,000 on a pair of shoes that is not like a, like a tactical or a, and even that stuff? Oh my God. Like the, the factatization of like the, of the, you know, you can get, now you can go to Cryptek and you can get the Versace of Camo. It's like, which, which, there's sales people will even call it that. Not on the website because men don't like that. But, but there's now like designer camo. Where it's like, I mean, I know I have it, but, but, you know, a fagotize, fagotize. Everything is look at the consumer choice. Who's making this decision? Women. And we, and we have this women, women in the marketing departments, women in the, in the advertising, women on social media, everything's going gay and, and, and, and it's, it's justified in just the same way the pink pound is self-reinforcing. This thing we always say, oh, women make most of the purchasing decisions in most houses. Shut up. Like, doesn't mean every man has to go out looking like he wants to drop on his knees in a, in a, in a, in a public park or in a toilet just because, just because his wife chooses what washing power do they use? Like, stop it. Everything is gone gay. Everything is gone gay. I mean, it just, just, just every bit of life. I mean, music, I mean, now we, now we force heterosexuals to listen to Lil Nas X, you know, and, and, and, and this sort of, you know, endless turnover of, of, of, of preening homosexual crooners that we call pop stars. There aren't any anymore because, you know, pop stars require a kind of like heroic manly virtue, I think, but it's just, just gone now. It's just not there anymore. So if you wanted to weaken a society to the point of collapse. Fagotize it. It's not feminization. That's a, that's a mistake to believe that it's not society is not becoming feminized. It's becoming fagotized. It's become, it's, it's, it has been gayed. You know, and it's, um, and, and it's, it's like the difference between a feminity and femininity. Right. You look carefully at the behaviors. It's like, it might have started off feminized, like you said, oh, the HR departments have kind of like feminized language in the corporate sphere. And blah, blah. It might have started that way, but the gays took over very soon afterwards. And so now we don't have a feminized public square. We have a fagotized public square. And it's hardly surprising given that everybody in Congress and everybody in the Senate and everybody in the party and everybody on TV and everybody else that you've ever heard of on television and everybody on all the TV shows are gay. It's not a shocker. It's not a shocker. This would be the result because even if they might be living. DL lives. They still like what they like. And they're still going to do it. Let's have that little cocktail. You know, like they still do it. You see a DC. These these these men in DC like drinking little champagne and things. So when you are, I mean, a lot of this it's like walking into a room full of women and there's all the stuff going on, but you have no idea what it is. A daily occurrence for me. But you know something's going on, but you know, you don't quite get the right right, but it's the wrong frequency. You're not recognizing it because it's not feminine because you'd recognize if it was feminine. You'd know what you were looking at. But when you go to Washington, when you were flitting around Washington as a when what was your dangerous faggot tour? Is that what it was called? I think I think the verb would be flit. Perhaps flounce. There was some flouncing. I saw it. There was a bit of flouncing. Do you know the funny story? Perfect. Sorry to cut you off. No, no, no. Again, I've been doing the whole day, but a perfect illustration of the facultization of society. I'm my bus. My giant dangerous faggot tour bus is in a parking lot just outside Washington DC. And Mike Pence's advanced team are planning to put him in the same hotel. Right there. They have to change. I know, stop. But they have to change. I mean, he's like spiritually gay for sure. But they're here to change hotels and divert his. I mean, this is the incoming vice president of the United States, right? To make way for the faggot. Just saying. It wasn't like they could have come to me and said, would you mind because we have like the vice president elect like whatever or coming in. This is 2017, so he is the vice president by then. We have the vice president coming through like would you and we would have said, yeah, sure. We'll go to the residence in. But no, they just they just changed all of his plans. Not mine to make way to make space for the faggot. Perfect analogy, isn't it? Perfect. But you picked up that vibe a lot when you're in Washington. Oh my God. The number of people who, sorry. You told me you don't help people. No, I mean, I think allegations have been roundly disproven, haven't they? No, but you know, the number of people who were just, I mean, they didn't quite say hop on my lamp, so you, I mean, because you're on that wavelength. Well, 10 years ago, I was very beautiful and I didn't notice. No, of course you didn't notice. I've been upset about you. I've had it ever since. Taka never said I was. No, I was very good looking. You know, I was in shape and I was the rest of it. And now I mean, it was it was it was like a daily avalanche. Really? I was like, I never needed to visit Niagara Falls. I just, I just like, I got, I got, I've got, I've got a giant torrent coming out. Let me, let me, I won't finish that metaphor, but no, it's just, just, no, it's a ca-torrent. So how has your life changed day to day now that you're celibate and getting away from trying to over, overcome your gay sexual impulses? I don't really have them anymore. Not, not, not often. My life is so, so I've learned. Well, the first thing to say is that dogs have stopped barking at me. What? I mean, I used to set dogs off, like really set dogs off. Like they would go crazy around me. And when I stopped. Really? Yeah. Yeah. With hostility or affection? I mean, they can sense evil, you know. My spiritual dr- I can only tell this joke because it's my spiritual director that said it. I said, do you think it's because they can sense evil? He said, no, it's because you don't smell like blacks anymore. Look, the priest said it. Let the record reflect, I'm not laughing. You know, dogs have, dogs have a famous complex relationship with, with, with certain people. I'm sure that's not what it was, but, but, um, maybe. No, but, but, um, you know, the biggest thing that happened to me. Wait, can we stop, did dogs, are you being serious about dogs? I'm 100% serious. I mean, there's like, there's a two photos of me, like snuggling with puppies. Like, okay, you got me, but other than that, almost every other dog, like would just go nuts anywhere around me. My, my, I set up a loving firm last year with a friend and, and her dogs just went, anytime I was even in the vicinity. Until I started making these changes. And then it was like, and now they're like, it's, it's bizarre. I mean, I'm a cat person now, cause I kind of have to be, but, but, um, but I'm a great lover of dogs. Like, I think you are too. Um, a great lover of dogs. And you know what they lack in intellectual sophistication versus their feline compatriots, they make up for in like intuition. Yes, they do. They're like babies. They're like, they got a little whole spirit in them or something. They're just like, they know good guys from bad guys. Dogs just couldn't be around me. That's amazing. I mean, I'm sure not all gay people have that thing, but, but it's just a, just a sign of something that changed. The biggest thing that changed me though, which is not like a big, the biggest thing to me, cause I live kind of an internal life. You know, like most of my, most of my life is up here, right? Um, the biggest thing that happened to me is I started caring what happened in stories. Like spoilers started to bother me. And I couldn't figure out what that was about. Um, like 10 years ago when the Star Wars movie came out just before Christmas, when no one had had the chance to see it, I tweeted, Han Solo dies. Uh, you know, like a thousand people unfollowed me. I thought, how could you, ah, you know, the worst person. I was like, what are you talking about? It's like a stupid space movie. Like get a grip. But I started to care maybe because I started to care what happens to me. I've started to care what happens in stories like the plot matters. I'm no longer just looking at the surface at the, um, well at the surfaces and I'm not looking at the dresses on the women or the accents or, or, or at least not just looking at those things anymore. Like I want to know that the story has a happy ending because I think, you know, cleaving to my faith more closely, I'm become more aware that the universe has a happy ending and I want a happy ending. And that's the biggest thing that's happened to me, like in my, in my head and my soul, you know, did you care about yourself as much? Of course not. Of course not. But I've gone from, I went from somebody who liked Oscar Wilde because I liked the witty lines and the sparkling surface of it to somebody appreciates. Instead now, or at least reads it differently now for this, for this subversion for the little eddies in language he uses, which are meant to show, you know, that this, this kind of like disintegrating way of life and I read it historically now. History. I never read history books because nothing mattered before or after. It's just like today because I'm in a grip of an addiction. But now I read biographies. I never did that before. Well, because a narcissist doesn't care about other people's lives. Right. But I knew, I knew stuff, but I didn't like, I didn't want to know details. And now I feel, I mean, Myers-Briggs is a lot of old shit, but, but I'm like my, my personality type, such as it is, it's completely changed. And I don't know exactly. Really? Yeah. I mean, I know I look and sound like pretty similar, but the way that I, because I have the same sense of humor, like I have some bits of personality that I have, but. The way that I acquire information has changed. Like I, like, I forget the distinctions because it is a lot of shit, but, but you know, like the intuitive to the sensory or whatever it feels. It feels now like I can, I feel more in tune now. Like before there was kind of like a sheet of glass, like some critical ironic distance between me and the world. Yes. Didn't really want to engage with it, you know. Yes. And now I'm like, I want to grab the wood. Sorry. I want to, I want to, like, I'm not going to grab a different kind of, no, I want to, I want to like know what it's made of and where it's from and, and, and look at it and think about it. And, and like, so this is how you ended up, huh? You know, like, like that, that didn't used to occur to me at all. I just be like, yeah, it's cool. I love the aesthetic. It's really nice. I love what you're going to say. What is this? Shabby chic, you know, like, and I just wouldn't know. And now I'm just like, this is alive. This is like, it, like, I, now I get, I didn't get when you first started, I was like, like this about the set. And now I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So you were a prisoner of ironic detachment. Yeah. Yeah. Like this, this kind of like everything's got to be met or everything's got to be whatever, because I was afraid of engaging with the material critically. Yes. Authentically, you know. I was afraid of engaging with the material. And, and, and now I'm not. Can I just say, can I just brag indirectly? Even when you were, I first met you in the green room at some Fox show years ago, many years ago. And you were in full. Full fag. Yeah. Oh, ridiculous. It was a lot. It was a lot. Parity of, parody of a gay man. Yeah. I thought, I thought you were deep anyway. I could see that in you. Sorry. Not bragging. I always thought that. I mean, it was a compliment to both of us. No, but I, I proceed that. Now when I do gay things, I do it like a Margaret Thatcher accent, because now it's not really me anymore. You know, like it was a compliment. No, I saw that though. I saw that instantly. Like first day, I remember we were, yeah. Exactly. We were standing. But, but when you see somebody that way, I mean, there, there are gay people who are not deep, you know, Dave Rubin, you know, people who just. No one shall work. There's no there there. There's nobody behind, there's nobody behind there. Oh, I know. It's just that. And you read his book and it's like, Candice made me read his book. Really? She made me. He did. I mean, his book, like don't burn this book. I'm like, I have to buy it first. I'd have to know. I have to have heard of it. Like I have to acknowledge it really is a book. What? Please, the spacing, like the margins and the, oh my God. I mean, you know, from, from having so many successful books, like all the publishing tricks, like, you know, if you, if you manuscript comes in short, you know, like, you know, we probably both had that happen to us from time to time. Who was this? There was this rumor that I, um, this rumor that I didn't write my books. It was this team, a fleet of, of assistants. And so the first interview I gave about my book about the, the last Pope, um, the book had been out two months and I said, sounds brilliant. I can't wait to read it. But it was like, well, you know, when you actually have like stuff going on, you're too busy to write it and then you write other people's books when in the fallow periods. Anyway, um, so it's actually have a famous friend or never in any of his books. No, of course not. And he had a million of them. Yeah. Bill Iwate probably, but that's very much a TV thing. Yeah, it is. It is. And I was on tour and stuff. So, but I did actually write mine as it happens. I had a research assistant, but, um, actually a very great guy, uh, Alan Bacari, who's now writing a book about Gamergate, the great unsolved, untold story about how Trump happened, um, which is completely topic for another day. But, um, what was the question? Well, the question was, uh, how you've changed as a person. I do. I still go off on tangents. Yes. But you were saying that you have an appreciation for the future and for things beyond yourself or as you didn't before. I'm back in the room. Um, now, now, now, now I will, I care what happens at the end of stories. Like I, I used to read it for the wit and try to remember the sparkling dialogue to play it to semi-plagiarize it in conversation or whatever, you know? Yeah. Um, and you know, I see a little of this change in another friend of mine in George Santos. Um, what a good guy he is. I can't help but like him. I always like you. You can't help. I always liked him. I always liked him. I was just like, oh, he's not likable. Um, and he's likable. He would be likable if he was thin, which is how likable he is. I never thought of that. He'd be likable even if he was skinny. That's how likable he is. Uh, he's especially, he's especially lovely as being jolly. But, um, I've noticed in him some little changes, some adjustments along these lines since he's had his reckoning and his, you know, I mean, he had to confront something. I make a prediction. Guarantee you the guy doesn't die gay. Guarantee you George doesn't die gay because he's going to see his behavior, the Walter Mittie stuff as being in dialogue with dependent on congruent with the other damage. Guarantee it. Guarantee it. I'm still, uh, so uncomfortable with this topic that I'm not going to broach that with him, but I think you're qualified to do that. Well, I'm on, um, to pull with him soon, so maybe I will. Um, so how do you change? Like, what's the process? This thing that we're not allowed to talk about, which is, and I can't, gay conversion therapy. We don't call it conversion therapy anymore. But that's what it was called, right? They were trying to ban it. So like, you were required to be gay. I remember thinking like, and by the way, I've never been anti- What are you converting from and to? No, but also the idea that you're not allowed to change? What? That's what I realized. That's the biggest thing. Why are you keeping people gay against their will? You keep it, you... Well, that's when my mind, as someone who's always been, I guess, pro-gay or whatever, I'd never really been that involved in it. Yes, it's one of the least attractive things about you. Yeah, I agree. I agree. But I started, my brain started to change a little bit when they were like, we're going to ban gay conversion therapy. And I was like, I thought the whole point was you can be whatever you want to be, which I was kind of for. But now you're gay, you must stay that way. It's respectable for you to be pro-gay if the basis of your pro-gayness is that they're trying to force people to stay gay. Well, that's when I started to change. I was like, what are we talking about here? You're not allowed... So you're going the wrong way. Yeah, no, you're just off on this. That just blew my mind when they tried to ban that. This is not what they told me it was. They're trying to force people to stay gay against their will. Yes. I mean, it's bizarre. There's a Supreme Court case right now. The ruling will come next year about whether or not bans on gay conversion therapy are constitutional, whether it's legal to do it. So we'll find out. The craziest thing I've ever heard. Well, a Supreme Court is kind of like, it always struck me at least until recently, I guess, with the injection of the DEI, like Lunatic. The greatest chart you've ever seen, the greatest graph of my life, how much Katanji Brown Jackson talks. It's the greatest chart I've ever seen. Self-esteem is in inverse proportion to ability. Yeah, we're aware of that. It is the greatest chart I've ever seen. And then you got old Clarence in your life. Right. It is the greatest chart. I just saw it. My reaction was, that tracks. And we had in the Supreme Court, and probably, I mean, it's sort of down the line, isn't it, Democrat? Up until recently, it was, you know, it was really just like Catholics we Jews on the Supreme Court. I don't think there are any Protestants on the Supreme Court. I don't think there are now. There is one Neil Gorsuch as an Episcopalian. Yeah, but you're just over the fence. No, but I mean, there was a while where... You got a little toe in the tiber. This country was founded and created by Protestant men, and there's not a single one on the Supreme Court. There was a fifth of the Catholic. The small ones. Only in Rhode Island, but whatever. Another day. When you see that kind of civilizational clash, as it seems to me that it is one, I can't help but hope, if they're not going to do Obergefell, that they at least let people get away from being gay. Like at least let people leave. At least let people leave. Because I had to fumble my way with hot oil on a stove and like hurting myself to eventually get to a point where I was not seeing a particular stimulus and automatically having a particular arousal response. Is that what you want? Is that what they want? Is that what they want everybody to have to do? To sit at home and abuse themselves? To sit at home and like hurt themselves? To get rid of these unwanted, disordered urges that are making them miserable, that are hurting other people, that are hurting them, that are the product of trauma, that are a trauma response. Is that what you want? You want people to sit at home and do it to themselves? I don't think so. I think it's what they want. I think destroying people is what they want. But I don't think it's what we want, you know? I agree. So how do people change and what is the process? Well, the father of this stuff, the most, I mean there are some quacks. Oh, I bet. We're all gonna lie about it. But the father of the stuff, the most respectable stuff with the highest success rate, the guy's name was Joseph Nicolosi. And he can't find most of his books on Amazon. Oh, but actually? Yeah. Why? Because they're suppressed. So that just tells you that right there, if they're banning books. I'm not such an anti-book banned guy. You're a bit more of a free speech fan. What were the Nazis burning? What were they burning? Ask them. I know, I'm very aware of that. I guess what I'm just saying is that I am a free speech fan. I have evolved into more of an authoritarian over the last 10 years. Well, I'm not even having that debate. I'm just saying that you know what's important to people. You know what they're lying about by what they try and hide. Sure. We can agree that's right. And we can also agree that all of the Jewish trans doctors need to have their books burned. But when he wrote about this stuff over decades, had a very tempestuous relationship with the bodies in psychology and all the rest of it and psychiatry. But you know, he's the person to read if you want to understand how people become gay and how many of them have got out of it. So for me, the most important book is shame and attachment loss. So I kind of got a yellowy green cover. And the good news is that although Dr. Nicolosi has left us, his son, Joe Jr. is still in the practice and is still training therapists today. He's based in California, obviously. And so he's still working today. And today, the way that the therapy that Joe Jr. does presents itself is, okay, it looks weird. It looks really weird. It's peculiar looking. It's almost funny looking when you see, you know, because sometimes they'll film a session as a demonstration, you know. But it almost looks sort of like something you might see from Ali McBeal, like smile therapy or something, right? But for a lot of patients, it's showing enormous progress and progress we measure as the amount of arousal, unwanted same sex feelings like I didn't. Wait a minute. Did I? I don't think I got the hots for anyone this week. You know, yeah. So people become, people have gay sex urges for a variety of reasons, you know, so that the, without getting too specific, you know, the passive partner in a gay encounter is looking to take on some of the masculinity he feels he lacks. And that's in a literal physical way and in an emotional way too, right? He's seeking to absorb in some fashion the manliness he feels he doesn't have. Really? Yes. And it makes sense, don't it? Like when you think about it. I've always wondered about what that was, but yeah. It's a way of interacting with the kind of men you've never been able to interact with or who have never taken you seriously or that you've always kind of admired from afar or whatever because you have had this like jump track thing in your brain from neglect or abuse or whatever it is. And so you seek, you want to be, you want to, you feel like it's like getting charged up and this is where the magic comes in. Again, as you know, like this is how magic works, you know, like magic artifacts got like charged up with evil power. Like that's what, you know, grace doesn't work like that. You know, God doesn't work that way. The infinite limitless generosity and charity and grace of God doesn't work like that. You don't have to like recharge your reserves. Another reason gay sex is unfulfilling because it's refilling a battery that's always depleting. It's like a slow puncture, you know, and you just top it up. You can never fill it up. You can top it up for a moment with an encounter like this. Those urges in the first place come from a memory or a thought or something that's leading to this arousal, this disordered urge and the way to get rid of it. It feels a little like some people will have heard of maybe CBT, although it's different in some important ways. The therapy is three step. The first thing that you do is you produce that state. So you think about or you look at something that will take you to the place that would have produced arousal products previously. And then you introduce something unexpected into the brain. And the idea is that you rewire the brain in its plasticity to expect a different outcome when it has that stimulus in future. Right? So the way I did it was to hurt myself. So if I saw a basketball player on the basketball because you're all gay nerds, like I said, but a football player, like I said, sitting down next to me on a flight or something. I wouldn't get aroused like the blood wouldn't stop flowing. I would get like, you know, like that or something, right? vaguely or at least wouldn't get that arousal response. The way that the therapist do it, which is better is is that a sort of like just a completely unrelated feelings neutral kind of a thing. Right? And the way it looks is just remarkable. And the third step is just repeat it because there's only two ways you can persuade the brain of things, which is emotional connection and repetition. Nothing else. Nothing else works. Those are the only two means of persuasion that work. Emotional connection or repetition. So this is why all the late night comedians who aren't funny anymore, their job is not to be funny. Their job is to associate certain things with certain emotional reactions and then to do that every night of the week forever. So Trump, eww. And then the next night Trump, eww. And this eventually persuades people that Trump bad, right? Because they're associating an emotional reaction to a certain thing. Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. It's just programming. It's programming. It's programming. They don't have to be funny. That's not their job. It is not Jimmy Kimmel's job to be funny. It's Jimmy Kimmel's job to repeat and repeat. It's why they're so boring and repressive, right? Yes. Repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat. Positive, happy, like Kamala's so brave. Trump's so hideous. Oh, God, disgusting. Isn't he gross? Isn't he, eww, that fat, ginger, orange retard, whatever, you know? They're not talking about him in terms of policy. They're talking about him in terms of disgust, you know? Because that's an emotional thing. And then again, again, again, again, eventually people like Trump, eww, you know? Of course. That's happening. It's programming. It's why the comedians aren't funny. You're welcome. This is that for virtuous ends because it's what works in the brain. And it very often uses, so people find this strange, but so Aquinas talks about how grace builds on nature, right? Thomas Aquinas. And so there are ways in which our bodies are machines. They function according to mechanisms and respond to stimulus. And although there's a spiritual dimension to all of this, the way our brains work is trainable. It's trainable like a dog is trainable. It's trainable like anything is trainable. And so the way this therapy looks, and I provided you with a couple of little examples in video so that you can see yourself afterwards, the way this therapy looks is, first of all, that the original stimulus will be produced. And then there may be a pattern of like following a pen around or a particular kind of tapping on the knee or something. It's just intended to be like a neutral, a different outcome from that initial response so that no longer does the brain go to a rousal. It goes to something else. And that, it's very common. If you see in PTSD survivors, if you've ever been to the VA, you'll see a lot of like this going on in like the treatment rooms and you're like, what the hell is that? That's what it is. They ask them to remember something traumatic from their service and then something, it's just kind of a little thing. And what's going on is, the best way I can kind of describe it is, it's like when you press control, delete, and then a couple of other things and the computer reboots without the virus now. Yes. You know, like that's not quite how computers work, but it reboots and you're no longer in that situation again. You can do that with the brain, but it takes not just one reboot, but it takes repeated raising, if they call it the schema or the target, the thing that produced that unwanted response. And then immediately the introduction of an unexpected outcome. So your brain's like, hang on a second. This happened. So I was expecting that, but then this happened. And then over time, your brain learns to just do that instead. And that instead could just be like something, you know, completely anodyne or it could be like I did, which is, you know, the kind of clunking version of it, which was, you know, something painful or unpleasant. And the third step is do it over and over again. And eventually you see people just have less of those desires. It's the most peculiar thing, but it is being born out in the studies. And the, so Joe Jr., I brought this with me. I'll leave it with you if you're interested. 144 people in a randomized placebo blind trial. It works. It works. And it works because this, these homosexual urges are not so totally unlike other forms of trauma, other forms of damage, other forms of deviance. This, this same thing. It works on people who are obsessed with rape, like a guy who can't get off unless he's thinking about raping a girl. Now rape is something that women love to fantasize about, but perhaps don't necessarily enjoy the reality of, even the reality of play of it, right? It's something women love to think about, but you know, you act that one out without warning. You're sleeping on the couch for a minimum. Yeah. It can help men to enjoy sex lives that don't involve coercion, you know, because they have that sort of thing. And the same, much of the same technique is used with people who have other kinds of trauma, who have other kinds of trauma responses as a product of bad things that happen to them, or as a product of just something going a bit wrong where that track is jumped, you know? And so this, though it looks very odd, is based on decades of research and builds on other therapies for other kinds of trauma, and it looks like it's working. Now I didn't have this kind of therapy. I will say that, like I said, I kind of bumble through on my own because I'm, you know, stubborn and a loner. But this has started to work for people. When you look back on the life that you led 10 years ago, how do you feel? I feel ashamed. I feel embarrassed and disgusted by the things I did, but I feel ashamed, particularly about 10 years ago, about how many people... You know, I thought I was like laying it on thick with a sort of like day-mend and average kind of, you know, a high-sense bouquet performance on stage, and I realized people weren't picking up the layers maybe. And every talk I ever gave in the Q&A, I said, if I could not be gay, I would push that button, you know? And nobody ever, like, that never registered with people, all that they... Why? I don't know, all they got was being gay is okay now, being gay and right-wing is okay now. And I know that I pushed that button with the left to annoy them, and because it was absurd at that time, but people never got the message when I said, if I could possibly... I never gave a speech in my life where I told people go be gay. I said, my first ever appearance on television was with Boy George, like 20 years ago, and I said, I feel that something is wrong inside me. And I didn't have the vocabulary to articulate this, and he's like, no, honey, you're perfect just the way you are. I can't do Boy George, but... You know, I was like, no, no, I feel that something is wrong in there. And everybody around the table just left, you know, like thinking like, oh, there's a self-hating homosexual. Well, I'm not hate... I wasn't hating myself. I was hating the things that I was doing because I knew they were hurting me. And I knew even then, I never gave a speech in my whole life where I said go be gay. Have you ever talked to other gay men who have the same feeling? Yeah. Yeah. I think because, I mean, not many of them will articulate it like I do, because I am a little bit cuckoo, and I don't mind kind of living in public and talking about my feelings. Like my Twitter is just like this... Well, aside from the eight years missing, this is like insane stream of consciousness. Well, I'll just say the most like ridiculous, absurd, outrageous things, but it's because people are getting like a tap straight in, you know? It's just what's going on in there today. So I'm comfortable living that way, and I'm comfortable expressing myself and talking about myself. And I think now I have a duty. Now I have a responsibility to others because of... Because the message didn't land. Like I was not intending to give birth to this huge generation of gay Republicans who now just I think it's openly fine to traffic in babies and to be a gay Republican, and I feel a great deal of responsibility for that. I hate myself for that a little bit. My lovely Annapolis, thank you for everything you said. Thank you. For your honesty, I appreciate it. Thanks. And your insight, which is amazing. For real, the TCN shop has everything you need. Dozens of new styles and designs perfect for the gift giving and spreading the Christmas spirit. That's Tucker Carlson.com. We hope you have the very best Christmas.