453-How to Prepare for Seed Starting Season-Encore Presentation

Hi, everybody. It's Joe here. I've been out of the country when this podcast slot needed to be filled. And so to make sure that you had the best and super timely episode for this week, I'm queuing up an encore episode. I originally did a year ago at this time. And it's about getting ready for your seed starting task. And January is the ideal time to be making sure you are ready to go. But being ready ahead of time is a super important activity, especially for seed starting that will make your time so much more efficient, effective, and way less stressful. So I am sharing much of what I do to prepare. And I talk about my new way of keeping up with my seed inventory and storage system. They actually go hand in hand with this system. But what I can tell you now that I didn't know then, currently I'm well over a year into the system. Unlike when I recorded this a year ago, but I am 1000% sold on the spreadsheet and the ammo box system. The ammo box is the way you store the seed packs. But that will make total sense to you when you get to that part of the episode just after the halfway point, I think, but I am fairly sure you are going to get a lot of good information out of this episode. So enjoy it and happy seed starting season. Hi, everybody. This is Joe Lample, the Joe behind Joe Gardner. And welcome to the Joe Gardner show. This is episode number 399. Wow, we've come a long way over the years. This one also qualifies for a geek alert and you will learn why in a minute. But let me just tease you with this to get you thinking, what does Amazon warehouses, data management and seed saving have to do with each other? Well, more than you may think, but we'll get there big time today. And here we are at the beginning of the new year. And I felt the need to share with you a lot of what I'm doing right now to get ready for the gardening season. Right now it's mostly focused on getting my seeds together, which is really what inspired me to create this episode for you because I have some specifics that I've changed this year that have really become a game changer for me. I can already tell that it's going to do big things from my organization, save me a lot of money in the process and give me a ton of peace of mind going forward. And this is a system that was inspired by Amazon and how they track their inventory management within their warehouses. And I learned about the system through my friends in Zen is somewhat of a neighbor. He's a short drive away and he's a great Gardner has an awesome Instagram channel in psychropedia. I'll tell you more about Zen and the Amazon system as it applies to what I'm doing with my seed organization right now. And I'll save that for the last part of the podcast because I have a lot to cover and I want to get it all in, but I want to save that part because it's a little more detailed and I want to make sure I do it justice. And I have a bonus bit of content in today's episode. If you want to geek out on spreadsheets, specifically as Zen did in setting up his for his seed inventory, I had a conversation that I recorded with him that goes into a lot more detail about his sheet and the columns he added and why, et cetera. It's really fascinating. And I have that for you. Now I know that not everyone wants to go that deep. And so I'm putting this recorded phone conversation with Zen at the very end of this episode. It will come in right after the closing music. So stay with me through the very end. And once you've heard the closing music, then the Zen conversation will begin. It's just under about 20 minutes, but it's pretty much all gold. And I think you will be glad you stuck around and listen to it. So as I share with you, these projects and planning areas that I'm working on right now to hit the ground running, literally coming up here. I first want to take a break and thank our sponsors for today's episode, territorial seed and the ultimate gardening and the seed. Territorial seed company is one of our long time interested partners. And they have some really exciting things happening this season because they've added more than 100 new products this year. So there's a lot to explore. And you'll find new plants, seeds and practical garden supplies throughout their website, including plenty of things that are genuinely useful in the garden. Flower growers have a lot to look forward to too. Territorial added more than 45 new flower varieties with great options for containers, borders and dependable cut flowers. And for vegetable and fruit gardeners, there are plenty of new varieties we're trying this season. Perfect for testing, tasting and then rotating into your garden plants. So if you're ready to try something new and grow your most satisfying garden yet, head to territorialseed.com slash show for 10% off Territorial Items. That's territorialseed.com slash show. When I co-created the ultimate gardening sheath, it wasn't a marketing idea or a product brainstorm. It was simply me, a gardener trying to solve my own problem. For years, I needed a simple way to comfortably and securely carry my three essential tools, pruners, soil knife and micro-snips. And nothing out there worked. Nothing was even available. So I created the solution myself. And what a difference it makes. Now, those tools are always by my side safe and secure, no fumbling around, no trips back to the shed. It's streamlined the way I work. And honestly, it's made my gardening more enjoyable. Handcrafted by a skilled North Carolina leather artisan, this sheath is built to last a season after season. It's practical, it's beautiful, and it's a product born from real gardening experience. You can find it exclusively at joguardner.com slash UGS. That's joguardner.com slash UGS. All right. So let's start off by just reviewing something you've probably heard me say a time or two. And that is a question I have for you. Are you a planner or a planter? And that will instantly get you thinking about which you are. You may know instantly what you are. But you may be a hybrid, I kind of am. I'd like to think I'm more of a planner than a planter. Although I've gotten a lot better at being a planner first, which is important. If you really want to be organized coming into the season to really reduce your stress load and be way more at ease and calm with yourself when the season comes. And I mentioned last episode that it's kind of like I see it as a freight train coming down the tracks. You see that train way off in the distance. The light is there, but you can't tell that it's moving, but it is. And it's moving faster than you think. And next thing you know, it's upon you so fast you need to get out of the way because it's not stopping for you. And there's a ton of momentum. And that's the way I think of this gardening season, especially this time of year, like right now, at the start of the year, it's easy to think that we've got plenty of time. We may not be starting our seeds for two and a half months from now. That will be here faster than you know it. So being a planner helps you think ahead. It helps you sort of future cast, but this is the time because it is a little less busy that it's perfect for doing our planning. And of course, the alternative is being the planter because you haven't done your planning, all of a sudden, it is time to get those plants in the ground or those seed zone. And you really haven't had any chance to know what you have or gather your supplies or check your inventory or clean up the garden. The list is long. So if you're not a planner at all, try to be more of a planner than a planter and work every year to improve upon that. If you could go cold turkey to planter over planter, you'd feel really good coming into the spring right now. And I recognize that it may not be a huge leap. You might have to take baby steps, but progress is still heading in the right direction. Okay. So that's really the first concept. I just wanted to make sure we hit that because it really is the theme for everything else we're going to be talking about today. And so moving on from that into something very related and it almost could really be the same topic, but I want to go ahead and differentiate this a little bit because this may resonate with some of you better than planning versus planter. And that is knowing what we need to do versus actually doing it. So in this case, at least you're thinking about what you need to do and you just need to find a time to do it versus just not really giving it much consideration. And then all of a sudden, it's time to do it and you haven't given thought to it. And so you just go for it. Well, this is knowing what you need to do and saying you're going to make time to allocate towards that, but it never really happens. And that's kind of my story in years past. Totally knew what to do, but I never had the time or made the time to do that before it was too late. And essentially, the horses were out of the gate. And that is not a good feeling. You probably know that term or you can just imagine if you've ever watched a horse race, how those horses bolt out of the gate as soon as they open or if you have horses and they happen to get out through a gate, like I have here at my farm, occasionally they get out of the pasture. And if they find an opening, they will bolt. And then it's a it's a whole new set of problems. But it happens quickly. And then you've got to figure out what to do. So that's the common denominator here. But with time, there isn't really any in spring when everything now is happening. The momentum is there. And it's just building on itself rapidly. And now you're having to do it all at once. It's stressful. I've been there many times and I vowed to never be there again. And I've changed my ways. And it makes a difference. There's a lot of different ways all for the better, but you don't want to be there. You don't want to be there watching the horses bolt out of the gate, which leads me to the other theme of this conversation today. And that is there is no better time than right now to be taking advantage of the calm before the storm. Fortunately, it's a good storm, but still it happens. So future casting, as I mentioned, looking ahead is where we want to take stock of everything. I'm in fact taking a few days off this next week to really make sure I've got my ducks in a row. So I'm going to take stock of everything. And I've already started that. And it won't be just related to seed starting or gardening season, but just more of the holistic view. But this is certainly a big part of my life and maybe for you too. But as it relates to what's going to be happening next for gardening, we need to think about if we're starting seeds or seedlings. What do we need for that? So specifically, let me give you some examples. For me, I think about the soil. What am I going to need for my seed starting? And right there is something I don't want you to just gloss over and assume that you're going to have what you need because there's a lot of stuff out there on the market and in the box stores and bags that I would never want to use I have in the past. And now, these days, I know what I like and I want to make sure I have it and it's not always available. But if you order early enough, like I just did yesterday, I ordered a lot of what I needed, soil wise, and I'll have it next week. And I know that I've got enough. Whereas in years past, I'd get to that point where I was potting up or sowing seeds or transplanting and I ran out of my favorite soil mix. And I couldn't find it. And when I finally found it, it was really, really expensive about three times more than I was used to paying. So think about your soil. And also, especially if you're using soil blocks, you know, you may have your own recipe or the recipe calls for certain things you may not have. Maybe it's green sand or maybe it's some powdered lime. And that's maybe not something you just have, you know, on yourself all the time. So be thinking about what you're going to use for your seed starting or your bumping up. And do you have enough of that, including all the ingredients you're going to need for that? So that's the soil part, not to be taken lightly, one of the most important things you need to think about. And then of course, the seed trays, the bottom trays, the solid bottoms, the cell trays, the humidity domes or the plastic that you would need to hold the moisture in until the seeds germinate. And what about the pots themselves? So you have your seed trays, but they only last for so long before they outgrow that space and you need to bump them up, what are you going to bump them up into? I specifically call this out because there have been times in the past, where it was time to bump them up. And I assumed that I had enough pots for them. And I didn't. And for me, that might be a bigger deal because I had a few thousand seedlings that I was potting up. And these were going to go to our sale about four weeks later. And it was important that I had everything, which is why I could be a little bit off in the quantity, but I was off by a lot. And just assumed I had them and I didn't. So then I'm ordering on the spot, trying to find them, of course, paying whatever the price is. So you get the picture. So be thinking down the line, too, not just at the very beginning of the process, but what's next? You know, thinking ahead for sure. And just a few other things to think about at the very front of that, if you're starting seeds, are the germination mats, also known as heat mats. And if you're growing in the greenhouse, or maybe a cold basement, you might want to have some heaters on hand, too. So get those ready. And your lights, many of us have LED lights right now, you know, the newer of the styles of grow lights. But if you're frugal, you may be still using your old fluorescent shop lights. And they still work great if you can find the tubes for them. Half of what I use are LED lights, and the other half are T5 fluorescent lights. And I love them both. And it's not that one type is better than another, some are more efficient than others, for sure, such as LED to fluorescent. But they both work. You just have to learn how to use those lights to make them work most efficiently for what you're growing. That's the key. But back to the lights, if you're using fluorescence, the main thing there is if you haven't changed out the tubes in them in a couple years, you might want to definitely see if you can find some tubes. They're getting harder to find because fluorescent lights are being phased out. So head on over to the box store as soon as you can and see if you can find some tubes or order them online. And also know what size tubes you need. A shoplight is typically a 48 inch width. And the diameter is called the T12. But the newer ones, the more efficient ones are T8s or even T5s. T5s would be about the size of a dime. T8s would be about the diameter of a nickel. And then T12s would be about the diameter of a quarter. So if you can use those comparisons, you'll kind of know just by looking at them. But refresh those tubes because they do diminish in their quality of light output, the more that you use them. So that would be an inexpensive investment in refreshing the maximum efficiency of those lights. Fans, what about fans? If you're going to start your seeds, it's a good idea to have air circulation around them as they're in their early weeks of growing. And so I like to have small clip-on fans on my racks next to the seed trays. And the closer you get to seed starting season, the less likely you can find them in stock even on Amazon. So get those while they're still available. And we'll have a link to my Amazon shop. I've curated a lot of this stuff that we're talking about right now. So you don't have to go wondering and looking. And that's in my Amazon shop. And we'll have again the link for you to go right there and make it fast and efficient for you. On that list of equipment getting started, automated Bluetooth Wi-Fi timers. Now they don't have to be automated Bluetooth or Wi-Fi timers. But timers are the key there. And having your lights go on and turn off at a set time every day, there's no right time. It depends on other variables. But I like to go with 16 hours generally. If you were to ask me, give you a number. But I can't do that without timers. And I do love a good Wi-Fi or Bluetooth timer because you can check from your phone to see if it's on. And if for some reason, it's not you can usually remotely turn it on. And just one other thought is to how ambitious you are with what you're going to be starting this year. Do you have enough space for that? Where's that going to be? Or are you going to be scrambling there right in the week that you need to sew your seeds, trying to move furniture and make room and hang the lights and all of that? Let me tell you, if you can identify that space right now and get it ready, get the lights hung, check them out, replace the tubes, etc. And have it ready and have all the equipment ready. In fact, I'll share with you that that was something that I did in December, which really added a lot of peace of mind to the workflow for this time of year. I went through my greenhouse, cleaned it all up and my seed starting room, made the space that I needed, cleared the shelves, cleared the table tops, estimated the trays that I was going to need, the bottom trays, the cell trays, the domes, the heat mats and got those together, got those ready, got those stacked up and no, I haven't done a final count on what I need, but I have a good bit of what I know I will need all together ready to go. So I've taken a big bite out of what I would have had to do all at once. And I know I'm speaking about past tense now and those days are behind us. But for you, maybe you still have time because your seed starting season is later than mine here in zone 8a, Atlanta, I'll be starting pepper seeds here next week and tomato seeds next month. So if that's an opportunity for you to bite into that big chunk now, it does feel really good to know that you've taken care of at least that part. Even visually, if you can clear the clutter, clear the deck and just look at that space, it's calming and it just sets the tone and gets your mind in the right space. I know we're all eager and we can't wait. I've heard that a lot already this year we're all very anxious to get going again, but don't make it a chaotic situation. Put some order to it. Okay, so that's taking stock of everything. So now let's talk about what are we going to be growing this year? Sky's the limit, of course. Are you going to stick with what you've always been growing? Are you going to try to something new this year? Are you going to branch out and try flowers over just edibles or edibles in addition to your flowers? Adding some more native printials or prairie plants. So dream a little bit and maybe get out of that comfort zone that you've been in for a long time. That said, it's easy to get overambitious. It's easier to bite off more than we can chew. I've been talking about taking a bite out of that project, but biting more than we can chew not so good. And I'm definitely somebody that's guilty of this in the excitement of the moment or the season. Woof. It doesn't take long to rack up a big bill with seed packets and seedlings and things that we probably never should have bought because we either didn't plant them or that was it was unrealistic. It was more than we needed or more than we could do or more than we had time to deal with. So I'd like for you to be realistic about what you want to grow this year and what you can grow this year. Just because you can grow it doesn't mean you have to grow it. And so I think the stress level comes down a lot when you pair back on the initial plan. I don't want to discourage you from going for it, but at the same time that can add to the stress and the disease and the pest pressure. And this is supposed to be fun and enjoyable. And what you look forward to doing in your downtime and part of that benefits from not being overwhelmed. And once you identify what it is you want to grow, make sure you're not overdoing it with the quantity. How much is enough? Because once you get there more than that at least with food you will have to find a home for it. Hopefully it doesn't end up in the compost pile, but that's not the worst thing. But prior to that if you can find family and friends or donate it even better, but you will definitely be dealing with that if it's more than you're going to need for your family and yourself. I run into that situation every year and I know it and we find homes for most of the produce because it's a lot to harvest. And that's the other thing. I love growing it, but the harvesting part is not my favorite thing to do. To me, it's more work than it is. Fun, although I love bringing it in and cooking with it. There's pressure there. At least emotionally that you don't want to waste the fruits of your labor and you know that what you've grown is full of nutrition and value and people need that. And you know, there's that emotional pressure that you want to make sure that it doesn't get wasted. So if you do grow more than your personal needs, have a plan for where you're going to put the excess. All right. And so part of this has to do with taking stock of what you already have as far as your inventory of seeds. Now we're not all seed starters, but there are a lot of you who are. I am certainly a big seed starter. And because of that and because of sometimes a lack of not keeping track of what I've already ordered in the past, it accumulates because I don't plant everything I order. A lot of that is impulse buying. I think a lot of us can raise our hand to that. And even when I have my list when you're on the website or in the catalog, you find yourself adding not subtracting. I'm encouraging you at this point to start subtracting from what you already have. But the only way that you can do that is to know what you currently have so that you don't end up buying more of the same thing. And even when you've accumulated seeds from the past, you know, they do have a period of time where they're viable and then they start to lose that viability. But they last longer than we think, but you do want to ask yourself, are they still viable? And if you have the time, you can actually take a few of those seeds out of the packet and put them in a damp paper towel inside of a Ziploc bag for a few days and see if they sprout. I like to work with 10 seeds. And if eight of the 10 have germinated, I've got 80% viability from that sample. So you could assume that that you're going to have pretty good germination from that stock of seeds that you have and you wouldn't need to order anymore. On the other hand, if the seeds are fairly old and you only get two of the 10, that's not a good germination rate. So you'd want to order new seeds. But there is a way that you can know before you spend more money. And you don't want those seeds to go to waste that you've already bought if they're still good, use them. All right. So no matter how you organize your seeds to access them to get an idea of what you're working with, I got to say whether you like spreadsheets or not, thank goodness for technology because if you can bring yourself to do it or get somebody in your family or friend to create a spreadsheet for you with the seed packets that you have, you kind of only have to set it up one time. And then it's just a matter of maintaining it and adding to it or customizing it. For example, you might want to add notes into your spreadsheet on a particular variety. For example, if you were going tomatoes and there was a variety that you tried and it ended up not being really something that you really liked, you could add that information or if you liked it or where it was from or who gave it to your or where you bought it, whatever. There are unlimited things you could add in columns or information that will give you more insight into whether or not you want to expand on that variety, never grow it again or whatever. So even though you may be a write it down kind of person and I get that, I love that too. There's magic in that spreadsheet. Once you get the data entered, it's easy. And we'll talk about that more in a minute because the spreadsheet is a big component of my new system. And in the past, I always ordered more of everything than I ever soed, rarely ran out of anything, just because I kept buying more of what I already had. So even if I exhausted the new purchase, and that's the other thing, I always would start with the newest seed because from in my case, I was selling a lot of the seedlings. I wanted to make sure I was providing the best germinating seeds. But really, there's no reason not to go back to a few years if you can and use those first. So it's kind of like that accounting principle first and first out rather than last and first out, which is what I was doing. But again, you do have to be mindful of the date that those seeds were packed for sale because the older they are, the less viable. But it lasts longer than you think. But anyway, now back to the spreadsheet because I teased that just a second ago, but I want to get into the details of my new seed organizing system. And it's how I started this podcast teasing that. But this is a real game changer for me. And I'm very excited about it. And I can't take credit for it. My friend Zen that I mentioned already from encyclopedia on Instagram, smart, smart guy, love systems, loves organization. I get a lot of new ideas from him. If you're not following him on Instagram, you can learn a lot and just be an aw of a lot of what he does. He's a neat guy. He was the one that I first learned about this system. And there are two main components. The first is the spreadsheet. And the second is the way that they are stored. And so I'm going to give you a little history to set the stage here. And then I'm going to get into the details of the system. Forever, I was the guy who would just put my seed packets into a big paper bag. Basically, I'm really simplifying it. But that was the gist of it. There really wasn't an organized system. And so when it came for the time to start my seeds, I really didn't know what I was starting with until I dumped the bag out and started sorting them there. And that wouldn't be a big deal if you only had six or 12 or 24 packets of seeds, whatever the number is. But when you're talking about hundreds of packets, like I always had, it's daunting. And it's not motivating. It's demotivating. It's quite stressful right from the start. And you don't want to go there. I promise. So once I got past that and we're going back a ways here as far as the timeline. But once I got past that, I graduated to photo storage cases. And this was a few years ago. I know I posted a lot about it. And it was something a lot of you were doing. But it was those kind of like briefcase size clear plastic cases like briefcases like suitcases, but smaller. And they were clear. And inside they had individual storage cases. And typically they had 16. And they were the perfect size to put seed packets into. It was a really nice way to organize your seed packets, especially if you didn't have hundreds of seed packets. Because the more of those you have the more of those suitcases you need to buy and depending on where you get them, whether it's Michaels or a hobby lobby or someplace like that or online, it's somewhere between 15 and $30 for each suit case thing. So that can get expensive. But we went that route and we had our each variety of what we were growing and one of the individual cases within the larger suitcase. So I could put 16 varieties of seeds, one variety per case inside the big case. So hopefully you're following me there. But each briefcase had 16 different varieties. Well, I grow many varieties of a lot of different things. So you can imagine how quickly this suitcase inventory expanded. And then it got to be more challenging because we would alphabetize. So we would go from like A to C for tomatoes. But then when I added a new variety and I'm alphabetizing, I have to resort everything in that box and then something gets kicked out because I'm adding something new. So that goes to the next box. But if it goes to the next box, something in that box gets kicked out. And then it's just it's not a smooth, easy system for changing out without a lot of work, especially if you're starting in the A's. So hopefully that's making sense to you. And then when you're storing all those suitcases, I mean, they stack really nicely on top of each other or side by side. But it can get pretty massive when you have a bunch of them. And so if you're trying to get to something that starts with A, but it's at the bottom of the stack, you know, you get the picture. It's it's a great system until you get a lot of seeds and then you got to figure out a different way. So anyway, let me take you to where we are today. I mentioned Zen who told me about the system. And Zen told me that he applied this system from taking a tour to an Amazon storage facility. And so if you've ever wondered how Amazon keeps up with all the different things that they have that can get to you in two hours from when you order it in their warehouses, which are now conveniently located pretty much all across the country to within a short drive of where you live within those warehouses. When a new item comes in for sale, they just place it in whatever available space they have rather than specific sections. And then the associates that work there just scan the bar code. And that tells them where to find that item because that item has been issued a bar code location. And it matches up. So the person goes, Oh, it's over there in rack 600 shall four bay two. But that's all based on when that new item came in, it just went to that space because that was the space that was available. But because the code said that's where you find it, the associate or the row butter, whoever goes and gets it can get right to it instantly. So they know they're not searching all over the place. And if a new version of that item comes in, well, it probably doesn't end up right next to the previous version. It goes in the next available space that could be across the warehouse. But because there's a specific code attached to that new item, they always know exactly where it is. So with that information, in hundreds of seed packs, as I'm organizing for the year, I could literally dump a huge bag of seed packets onto a table and just take whichever one I reached for and enter that into my spreadsheet on the next row, whatever that row was because I'm assigning its own number along with other information. But the main thing that you need to know is I've entered what it is, Cherokee purple tomato. And then I'm looking at my storage box. That's the next thing I need to tell you about. And whatever the next space is in that box is where Cherokee purple seed packet goes in a my go behind a flower seed packet of whatever because the next space available was behind the flower seed packet. But the container itself, it's no longer the clear plastic suitcases with the 16 individual cases. Now they are essentially their ammo boxes ammunition boxes. Now I didn't really know what those were. And I've seen them before, but didn't didn't really realize that's what they were. But they're a little bit wider and a little bit taller than a seed packet and they're kind of deep, which is nice. And so if you had an empty ammo box, and by the way, you can find them in the sportsman's aisle at Walmart or in those outdoor stores. And you can also find them at Costco. I found them there and they're called store all crates. And so it's a trade. It has four of those boxes side by side. And it's so handy. So you instantly start with four. And let me just tell you four. Maybe all you ever need because in doing this, I've found that I can put easily a hundred seed packets into one box. So if you're getting four boxes, that's already four hundred seed packets. But let me just quickly walk you through this. But it's easy. You take your first box and your first pack of seeds. And that is space number one. And however your code is, for me, let's just I'll tell you how I do it. So it's the first box of four. So it's oh one for box one dash the first space. I did three digits. So oh one dash oh oh one. So I made a card. And by the way, this is the other little tip for you. The way that I segment the packets from each type is I bought, you know, those old file folders that we don't use anymore. Or made a lot of us do where we still have them laying around. But those folders, those Manila folders that are in the old filing cabinets. Those are all retired here. But I've used some of those leftovers and I've bought more. But I cut them up into cards that fit into the storage box and are slightly taller than the seed packets. So the number sticks above the seed packets behind the card. So what I'm looking at when I open the boxes, I'm just seeing a line of cards with numbers in each number coincides with the number on the spreadsheet. So the card goes in again, back to the first example, oh oh one. And then that packet of whatever that is, whether it's a flower or tomato or a herb or whatever, it doesn't matter. And then the next one could be a tomato and the next one could be a pepper. The next one could be a flower. But it doesn't matter because each one has its own code. And then two months for now, two years for now, if I'm looking for a Cherokee purple, I just go to my spreadsheet because I'm not going to remember where it was in any of the four boxes. But as soon as I go to the spreadsheet, I look and I see Cherokee purple, I find the code and I know it's box one slot two or whatever. I think you get that. But even if you don't, I'm going to have pictures for you in the show notes. So that's going to be super important for the show notes this week for this episode 399. And again, that is always on our website at joegardner.com under the podcast tab. And again, 399 is the episode and we'll have pictures of what I'm trying to describe to you. It's tough to do audibly. But when you can match it up with a picture, you're going to see what I'm talking about. And that's going to help a lot. And something else that would really help if I can pull it off is finding the time to make a YouTube video of this conversation. Basically, a condensed version of this entire podcast so that you can see what I'm talking about. And I can show and tell it to you right there to the camera beyond just the pictures that we will put in the show notes. But I think in this case, that might be a great application for a YouTube video. So I can't promise it, but I'm going to surely try to do that next week and get that posted because I think that will really bring it home. But that will be on my YouTube channel at joegardner.tv. It may sound a little chaotic, but it's very organized. And if it's good enough for Amazon, it's definitely good enough for me. But the reason that it works so well is that there's that the seed packets are just not segmented into specific sections, which with the clear suitcases they were. And that made it difficult for any changing. This approach just allows for faster put away and more efficient accessing and getting to them when I need to in the future. And then when I get new seed packets there, just stored in the next space that I have, not having to rearrange anything. So it's sweet. It's a very sweet system. And two final points. The first is that if you go to the show notes to review this episode, we always include pictures that are relevant to what we talked about. And today that is especially important, especially with the spreadsheet because we will have Zens spreadsheet in there and all its glory and detail. So there's a lot of information there. And on mine, we'll have pictures of the filing system for the physical location where the seeds go. And you'll see the cards sticking up between the seed packets. And you may notice that there is an O1 dash and then a number or O2 dash and then a number and O3 dash and then a number depending on the pictures. Those first two numbers, the O1 or the O2 and the O3 before the dash were there to indicate which box the seeds were in. So if the code were O1 dash 050, I would know it was box one space 50. Well, that's actually not necessary. That first box location. So I'm eliminating the first two digits and just going with the number of the location. And then on the front of the box, I can just put some painters tape and write 0 1 through 0 75 knowing that seed packs 1 through 75 are in the first box. Box 2 will be painters tape that says 0 7 6 through 143 whatever it is. So I don't need the extra work to mark the card to indicate what box it is because that can change too and that just clogs up the system. That makes it less efficient. So if you see that in the pictures and you're wondering what those two numbers represent, well, that's what they used to represent. Now I'm not using those anymore. So so my code is straight one through however many I end up having. And then just a reminder, if you want to geek out on Zenz spreadsheet and hear his conversation with me on what columns he finds particularly helpful and why he uses what he uses and the value that that adds to his analytics, it's a great conversation. It's a little less than 20 minutes, I think, but well worth the time. And that's at the very, very, very end of this podcast after the closing music. So just sit tight for a few more seconds and that conversation will come up. And I think you'll enjoy it. So that is it. That's what I wanted to tell you. I hope that all made sense to you. I hope that gave you some inspiration and some ideas for a little more peace of mind coming into this busy season. It's exciting. And I know we're all really ready to get going. But if you can just do a little more planning on the front end, it's going to make everything else sweeter. It's still off in the distance, but it will be here before you know it. The show notes are going to be where you're going to get the information on the pictures and more details on what I'm trying to describe and related links to the stuff that I'm talking about the Amazon shop that's we've curated a lot of the things that you may want to look into getting. So joe gardener.com. Look for the podcast tab and this is episode number 453 also links on where you can find us during the week for me, mostly Instagram at Joe Gardner and on YouTube Joe Gardner TV and GGW TV or the television series with over 200 episodes there that you can watch. And here's something you'll want to know about speaking of seed starting. We are quickly approaching launch season in the online gardening academy starting with our most popular course master seed starting. This is our flagship course with many very happy students and lots of glowing testimonials. We will be opening that course up for enrollment during the last week in January. This is not a course that you can enroll in anytime you want. It is usually only for one week per year and it's happening very soon and we will keep you posted on this upcoming event. You can be sure of that but be on the lookout for more information very soon. So I think that's going to do it for the main part of this episode. But before we go, of course, thanks to my VIP podcast production team Amy Princess, Brendan O'Reilly and Christine LaFond were weekly podcasts with new episodes coming out every Thursday. So if you're not subscribed, please do so wherever you consume your podcast. So as we wrap up, thanks for joining me everyone, whether you're a long time listener or this is your first episode listening to me, I hope you enjoyed it. And every episode is an objective of helping you to become a better smarter, more confident gardener by teaching you the why do behind the how to I'll be back here again next Thursday. Have a great week everybody. Take care and I'll see you really soon. Thanks for listening to the Joe Gardner show. The podcast where it's all about gardening and learning to grow like a pro, no experience required. For more information, podcasts and how to videos, visit us online at Joe Gardner dot com. Hello, I Joe, how are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. Good, man. I think about you all the time because you've filled me with so many great ideas over the couple of years that we've been hanging out together. And you know, last year you you share with me your spreadsheet and I think you were the one that told me about the Amazon tour. Why aren't you? Because it kind of it's kind of so cool. All right. So if you got a minute, that's why I wanted to call you just to make sure I get my facts right because I'm going to put that information into the podcast this week. And I've been working on it myself and and it's pretty straightforward. But I wanted to make sure I didn't miss any of the gems and nuggets that you you're putting together in this. So give me a little bit of the background. Was it because of the Amazon way that you kind of thought about putting a spreadsheet into play like that to keep inventory of your seeds? That was one of them. So I knew after the first season of getting seeds that ongoing management was going to challenge. Yeah, because it's always tempting to buy more seeds. There's always for it always seems that there's new varieties that you want to add to your collection. Right. And as you do that, you still have the old ones. And then when it gets to be time to decide what to plant for a season, it gets overwhelming to quickly narrow down what you want to use. So you know, because of my background in IT, that's what I dealt with a lot was dealing with large data sets. And then having to quickly reduce it to make decisions quickly. So that's essential what the situation was. That led me to essentially fall back on what I what I've always said before, which is find a way to organize the data and then to be able to filter and manipulate the data. Perfect. I'm glad you set it up that way because I was already kind of talking about those very things that you said. And mainly it was the overwhelm because of my prior systems. I didn't have a way to efficiently update it when that next variety would come in that I wanted to plant. I couldn't alphabetize it in a physical system properly without rearranging everything else. And it just became a big nightmare. And then doing homework on that Amazon inventory management system, you know, as you told me when we were talking about this originally, it's all about the systems. And they just they just put whatever that new item is into the next space available. And then they don't have to worry about squeezing it into the bin next to the other item that's almost like it, but not the same. Correct. So that's actually how database systems work when there's new data. They simply it's just they simply added on in the records. But every piece of data is given a unique ID. And that unique ID is what you use to retrieve that data later. So because that's how you key in to a specific piece of data, there's no reason why you need to constantly organize data to be able to find it. Right. So if you think of like in like the old school library where you have like the car catalog, you're constantly organizing those cards within the car catalog. Right. So that's an example of having to rely on constant organization to have your data be usable. But in the modern way of managing data in databases, the whole idea of having a unique ID or unique key and a search and filter based on based on that, it means that you don't have to constantly reorganize your data. I'm already loving it because this is my first year doing that in really first week, truthfully. And it's been fun to to just take all of those that massive inventory of seeds that you know, tried to keep up with in the past. And now I just you know, I'm just entering into the next row, assigning it its ID and then putting it into the next available slot in my storage box slash ammo box that you showed me. Now I went from, you know, those plastic suitcases that like briefcases storage boxes that only holds 16 individual cases within. So the maximum you can hold in any one case of 16 different varieties. And with the method you're talking about, it does rely on you to having to reorganize every time you add. Totally. Totally does. That's that was a big part of the problem. Part of how I came to the decision was also because I had already dealt with having to manage the record keeping of my trees and my orchard. So through that experience, you know, most people simply just label the trees, but what I was interested in was maintaining data on the trees. And so what I found is that once you start needing to keep track of data on each tree, then a plant label just isn't going to work. So having an ID allows you to then store everything in a spreadsheet. And then on a spreadsheet, you can always add on new columns. Yes. When there's more data that you're interested in keeping track. Right. I love that. I saw your tags. But you and so you have a tag. You do have a tag on the tree with that ID number. Correct. Do I remember? Yes. Yes. But then I find that there's so much more information that I'd like to know. So on the tag, I had the ID, the tree type, what kind of food it is and then the variety. And then also the date that it was planted. That's the most common information I want to know up hand. But then there's information like what vendor does a tree confront when nursery? And then also in terms of fruit trees, what roof stock was used. I had the original data planting. But for example, if a tree, if something happens to a tree, let's say needed to be removed because it died, I can keep that information on this spreadsheet as well. And actually every season what I do is as a year goes along, I'll walk the orchard and I'll note the stage of development on any given week. So that way I can kind of have a record as a seasonality of each tree. So I'll walk the orchard, let's say beginning of April. And I'll come on a tree and I'll say, okay, the tree with this ID is currently in the point where they call bud swell, where their buds are swelling and getting ready to break open. Yeah, there's no other way to easily manage that volume data other than a spreadsheet. Yep, I agree. And you know, not everybody out there's a spreadsheet lover or they may be intimidated by the setup or just, you know, they're more pinnum, write it down person. I can't imagine going back at this point based on the simplicity of it. And the unlimited opportunity you have to add information. But most importantly, right up front is just find what you have quickly, but not have to worry about physically manipulating the item itself. Yeah, so that was another, another reason I settle on this is I've just found in the various things that I've gotten involved in that for me, I'm always, I constantly have ideas going on my head. And when an idea comes up that I feel is good, I like to be able to either research it some more or validate it. And a lot of times that means I need to have access to data regardless of where I am. So, or people may ask me questions and I need to be able to look it up. Yeah, especially a great way to do that. I use Google Sheets which I can access anywhere. So, if someone asks me what varieties of broccoli I plant, I planted or have seeds for, I have immediate access. I just filter on broccoli and I can see all of them right there. People want to know what seed vendor I use. There it is as well. That's amazing. Can I ask you some of the columns that come to mind that you have in your spreadsheet for your seed collection? Like what are the, what are some of the most important useful columns that you've identified that you find yourself using a lot? All in you bring it up. Okay. This is one of the benefits I can just bring it up right now. So, a lot of these columns came about when I first got into seed starting and I was just from barter with like the amount of data that's available out there. Especially from a vendor like Johnny's. There's a lot of data. And I wasn't sure if I was going to use it. But I knew that if I had an organized format later on, I would be able to figure out if it's usable data or not. And isn't it nice to have it? You know, if it just just the time it takes to do the data entry, that's it. It's one and done and you have it forever. Exactly. Because I do it at the point where I received the seed packet. Yeah. And if you decide not to you enter all that data at that point and later on, you figure out like, oh, that data would be nice to have. Then you'll be going through all of them again. So it's just much quicker to do it the first time around. Yes. Yeah. So I start off with ID. And that's just a sequential ID. So every time I ask you to know, I just give it a next number and a sequence as this ID. Then I have to type the type of vegetable or fruit. And then then I have another column that I call group. So for example, let's say type is cabbage. Okay. So group can be something like Chinese for Chinese cabbage versus regular cabbage. Okay. Yes. And then I have another column that says variety. And then that would be, for example, the variety of a Chinese cabbage. Okay. Yes. So it starts off with that. Then all the little bits of data, some of the columns I have is I have a status column. So if you see this in use, it's marked as active. Once I've used up a seed packet, then I'll come into Sreshi and mark it's inactive. So the next season, when I say, oh, show me all the broccoli seeds, for example, I'll put it a filter and I'll just show me only the active ones. Yes. That gives you a real time. Look at what you actually have that's usable. That's in the image. Yes. And then also it could be used for other things as well. So if after several seasons, you notice a consistent pattern where a particular seed packet has germination issues, they use suspect that the season that packet either are not viable or getting old and so on, you can mark that as a status as well. Like need to be expired or something like that. So another column I track is sourced. That's the source of the seed. I also have a column that I call item number and it's essentially the item number of that seed on that vendor's website. That's a smart one. And then I have another column just to make it easy to look up information on a particular seed is I have a link to that seed page on that vendor's website. Really? Yes. Why do I think of that? And then I do have a column that I call type. And this is why I used to designate, for example, whether it's organic, whether it's air-loose seed, whether it's hybrid. When you're deciding to add data elements like for each of these columns, what you always want to do is make sure there's no ambiguity for that data set. So like what you're just describing for tomatoes, whether it's determined or indeterminate. I would make sure that you don't mix that with anything else. Just reserve it as a tomato type. So for example, I have specific columns or identifying whether a squash is a vinyne squash or a bush squash. Because that's specific to that plant type and I don't want to mix it with anything else. And this way, later on, when you go to filter using these columns, the data is clean. I like clean data. Let's see. The next column I have, this is a little cosmetic is color. Nothing wrong with aesthetics. You got to include that. Yeah. So this, so this lets me see like, oh, okay, I had these colors that pepper in inventory. Then maybe I'll consider adding another color. Yeah, so I do keep track of color. And then let's see. Another column I have is this one I mark it as so. So it's whether it should be sound indoors or outdoors. Okay. And then I have a column that's called recommended tray. So when you buy it as seeds, a lot of times the vendors have recommendation like this should go in 128. Really? This should be, yeah, this should be starting at 72. And so on. So I keep a column on that. So here's a good example of not mixing data. Because my very next column is a column called tray. This, the one is based on my experience, what size tray I like to use. So see, if I mix those two pieces of data in the same column, then over time, I couldn't figure out like, which one did I get the information from the vendor, which one is my own personal preference? Yeah, right. And then the next column I have is dead death, the selling death. And then I have another column for seed, I call it seed density. And that's essentially when I'm selling in cells, how many seeds per cell? Recommended that you do. Recommended. And then next column is germination. So the column is germination minimum temp. Once again, this is coming from the vendor. And the column after that is germination max temp. So for example, when you're selling the seeds and you get to trays, you do a large volume of seeds. So likely you're probably doing one tray with all the same seeds. But in my case, I'm typically just mixing seeds in the same cell tray. Right. I got you. Yeah. So it's useful to be able to kind of have seeds that light the same germination temperature range to be in the same cell tray. Yeah. Because then I can put them on a heat mat that has a different setting than other ones. And days to germinate, do you also do that with days to germination? So if you're mixing up, you can put days, seeds of similar germination days in the same tray. Okay. I don't do that because I think it starts to get very manageable. Yes. So I do keep that data, but I keep that data more as a reference for myself. To be able to judge a well the seedlings like are they progressing as they should? So I do keep that data for that point of reference. Got it. So then I also keep along the same line. I do keep a column called publish sprout days. So essentially days to germinate. Again, to for me to track, I want something to just going or if there's something wrong. And then I have a couple other columns that I haven't used as much. I call it seedling minimum temp and seedling max temp. So sometimes in the seed package, you'll see that, for germination, this is the temperature range. Yes. That is preferred. But once for seedlings, this is a temperature range. Yep. I will give you about half of the columns. Yeah. But one of the most important columns that you definitely need to have is the date that the seed was received. That allows you to track the age of your seeds and the figuring out when you need to expire them. That compared to the sold cell for date, like the year that the seed that's stamped on the seed packet, like cell for 2024, you're saying also, note the date that you actually got the seed. So that gives you more. Yes. Okay. More accuracy as to how old the seed is. Correct. Okay. And this allows you to, you know, once you're being, once you're being garnered for a while, then you get a sense, for example, that anything that alien found may have shorter seed life. So you may decide that, okay, for those, I only want to keep the seeds for a year. And then you can just have a routine where every year you go through your aliens and decide which ones you want to reorder. So it's essential to be able to see when you got your seeds. And also, if you start having germination issues, then you can refer to this data as well. If you figure out, you know, are my seeds getting too old for this, for this plant type? Yeah. So that's a very important column. You've set up to leave nothing to question. You've, you've, all the answers are in the data. It's because for my experience in 19, it's always better to have more data than not. Oh, I'm a big believer in that. Better to have it and not need it and need it and not have it. Yes, because what I always find by, from experience is when people don't have enough data, then they shortcut it by guessing. And when you do that, then it's no longer science. That's a great way to punctuate the point. Thank you for your willingness to on short notice to give us some of your, your golden nuggets and gems, because I think you're going to have a lot of people that are going to be very much into this. We have a lot of geeky seed starters out there. So this is in data people. So this is going to be perfect. Yes.