Anthony DiDio: From VEIN to FLESHWATER

This world's going to ruin you. So the world shut down. And then a month later, we were supposed to go and record it. Vane was one of those bands that throughout the pandemic, all these people are inside discovering hardcore. Right. And Vane was one of the bands they couldn't wait to see. But the record maybe didn't connect to the same way Arizona did as we talked about. I do think it's a better record than Arizona. But I also think that it's a record that you should listen to in the dark with your headphones on. However, it's received as out of my control. Totally. And the people that do connect with it probably connect with it the same way that we do. So at the end of the day, that's all that matters. And at this point, there has not been a next thing for Vane. No. Is there other any plans? OK. Hello. Welcome. It's hard Lord time. How are you doing, Bo? I'm doing really good. Day two, FYA. That's right. Orlando, Florida. We are here in the swamp. But we're here for a very special reason. We have an incredible guest today. This is Eons in the making here. Long awaited, highly anticipated by us, by you. We're proud to introduce a creative genius to me. One of my favorite modern musicians and guys in general. From Fleshwater, Vane, and the whole extended .fm universe, Massachusetts own Anthony D'Odio. Hello. How are you? Good. I'm good. Thank you for having me. You're very kind words. Thank you. You know me. It's D'Odio, by the way. Formally on record, D'Odio. OK. D'I, D'I. D'I, D'I of two capital D's. Beautiful. Oh, really? Oh, cool. I like that. Yes. Stylized. Yes. I didn't know that. Like, make something. That's all right. No one does. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. How has everything been? Good. Just here at FYA, did a couple shows on the way down with Jarhead Fertilizer and Tarantula. That's a cool tour. Awesome tour. Two incredible bands, all cool people. Jarhead's insane. Yeah, one of the craziest bands to watch. Was he wearing the chains? Wearing the chains. He's got the chains on the drums, and it's just like. So cool. That's actually a band that is insane to watch live. Is Dave in Jarhead? Yeah. That's like his brainchild. Yeah, it's his band. Is he the goat? He might be the goat. He might be the modern goat. Modern goat drummer. Dave Bland, Thullville, Jarhead. Wow. And they did a split a really long time ago with that band, Purge, who's always faithful. And they're playing songs off that too, which is really cool. Yeah, they're sick. Tarantula's awesome. Yeah. Richmond? Yeah. Something by way of Richmond. Excellent. But yeah, other than that, just been chilling at home and then doing this and then going to be home in a couple of days until whatever's next. Whatever. Is that an ounce? Not yet, but pretty soon. Cool. Cool, whatever. Maybe by the time this comes out, it'll probably be an ounce. Go check it out. Once in a generation, Anthony, a group of people comes along where I witness a band. I see them play one song and I sit there with goosebumps covering my whole body. And I know not only do I need to do everything in my power to see them succeed and see them grow, but I want to be their friend. And that's how it was with yous. I saw you play one set. We'll get into that later. And I immediately became invested in everything you were doing and whatever do. And I couldn't be more proud of how the whole team has evolved and grown and everything you guys are doing. So congrats, first of all. Thank you. But let's go back in time. OK. Tell me, young Anthony D'Dio, finding punk and hardcore music. So growing up, I had an older brother and sister. So they were much older than me. My sister's like 12 years older than me. My brother's eight years older than me. So when I was younger, they were already into music and movies and whatever, all kinds of stuff. And so I would be around that stuff just growing up. Like my sister loved No Doubt and Weezer. And they loved all kinds of other punk rock bands and stuff. And so when I was five or six, I loved Some 41. Five or six. And yeah, very young, just around them. And my sister and my brother were always super supportive of me liking music. So they'd show me stuff all the time. So I was on to Twinkle, Twinkle. Five or six? Diamond banger. Yeah. Well, so there's just stuff like that. And then I kind of pivoted and got into metal stuff on my own, which they didn't really like. But I kind of like. What kind of metal stuff? Well, like slipknot, corn. Late 90s? Yeah, like Death Tones. And then like Shadow's Fall, God forbid. Wow. Massages. Lamb of God, American metal kind of shit. And then like Meshuggah, Sepulchre, Soulfly. And how are you finding this? Because you're seeing t-shirts? Just like, I mean, well, first it was through them. And then I would dig around their room for stuff. I would look at my brother's CDs. I remember he had the slipknot CD. And I was like, this is terrifying. The cell title? Yeah, like what is this? Or did the red? And they were like, that shit sucks. Don't listen to it. I was like, this is terrifying. What is this? And they showed me all kinds of stuff. So I loved Blink 182 and Green Day and stuff like that. And the Strokes. And then, yeah, eventually got into metal. And I had a best friend in middle school named Jack. And like me and him would like find bands together and stuff. And he was like pretty good at downloading music. So we would always hang out. We played in a band together. And then like, I played bass. Cool. Was bass first for you? Yeah, bass was first. My sister had a guitar. She had a Fender Strat. And she had like an acoustic guitar. And I would like bang on them and stuff. I didn't know how to play them. And for whatever reason, I really wanted to play bass. So I picked bass. I got a bass when I was like 10. And me and Jack played guitar. So I was like, all right, I'll play bass. You play guitar. So yeah, and then eventually, once I got to high school, I just started discovering other music and going to shows and stuff. And like me and my good friend Miles discovered Anchors Up when we were like in high school. And so. How far were you from Haverhill? I was only 20 minutes from Haverhill. But like I was not allowed to go there. Like I was in a. So you had to lie. Oh, it took a lot. Yeah. And then so then he, so we started looking into those bands. And then I remember he burned me a copy of the band Revenge's first LP and like with the track list written out on a burn CD. And that was like pretty life changing. So I think all those, those, all the MVHC bands at that time. And like all the bands, hardcore bands in Massachusetts at that time is like what was truly like my entryway into like all of it for real, you know. And then once I got into that, I kind of circled back to like other things my brother and sister had mentioned to me that maybe I wasn't ready for yet or I just didn't get any yet on my own. Like like Converge or Death of Bordeson or things like that. My brother would show me these things like look at this video. Converge, this is the heaviest band of all time. So your brother was that was. Yeah, he liked a lot of awesome shit. He showed me like Converge, Botch. How much older than. He's like eight years old. Oh, OK, so he would be like, watch this video. Going up there. But that's like. Yeah, I'm playing Mario. Yeah, so he showed me like like the No Heroes video or something. Yeah. Or like the breakthrough at all. Death of Bordeson or video. Bang. So. But like I didn't get it at the time, I don't think. And then eventually I came back around to it. And so then from there on, it was just like getting deeper and deeper and deeper into it. Like, you know, going to shows at Anchors Up and like, you know, listening to all the local bands like. Bonus Army, the Carrier, Revenge, Think Again, Word for Word. Be hard to fill in. Like there were so many bands. There was like a ton of bands. The best possible case scenario. Yeah, like a young guy to cut his teeth and like Anchors Up as your local hometown place to discover things. I can't imagine anything. Yeah, yeah. So that was like the real like that's what really got me into it. And the band that like really that I connected with the most out of that group was the Carrier. So that was the band. Once I kind of found that I was like, oh, I really, really want to see this band. And so I went and saw them. My sister was dating a guy at the time who played in this band, this like indie band, and they were opening the show. So I was like, I can go. I'm going to go. I mean, have a ride. Like it's OK. My sister's going like I'm going to I'm going to go. And I went and the power went out and I was so pissed. I was like the one fucking time like I get to go to the show that I want to go to. The power went out and my sister was there and Matt's sister was there. And they introduced us. Wow. Whoa, really? Yeah. So that early on. So I was like, hey, I was like 15. So was he equally mad about the power going out? I think he was just chilling. OK. And he was also from there and like hanging out with some people. I didn't know anybody. So I just went and then I said what's up to him. And I was kind of, you know, exchange a couple words. I had a barrier dead hoodie on. He was like, oh, cool, cool hoodie. And then, you know, from then on, we started just like talking online about like converging stuff and like. And he's he already drumming at this time? Yeah. Yeah. He him and Josh had been like playing a band since they knew Josh. That. Yeah. So him and Josh are already friends. So like they had played in some hardcore bands together, like growing up. So I met them and immediately like we were like, we have to start a band. Like it was like a it was weird. It was just like we just knew or something, you know, what band was this? So we didn't have a name at the time. It was a well, there was a name. It was like so it was me, Matt, Josh, this kid, Nick, and we had a band. We called it Life Script. Oh, that's cool. It was the name of the band. And so that was like sound like Thursday or something. OK, it was like very like kind of screamo. Bass. I was playing bass. Right. Yeah. So that was when I started like writing shit. So these are the first songs you that was kind of like when because like before that. Like I would play stuff and I would try to figure out how to write stuff. And then it wasn't till I kind of like got on my computer, like a DAW. I couldn't record anything into it, but it was a MIDI program. So you could do drums. Reason five. Yeah, yeah. So I would just I would just sit and figure it all out. Like I would make like the shittiest electronic music that wasn't on the grid. Like I didn't know what I used the grid yet. I would like play the drums. Oh, wow. And just try to make electronics. What did you do when you discovered quantizing? It was like the letter Q Q. It life changing. I actually didn't know about that. Yeah, but I figured out like, oh, you can click in the notes. Yeah. Yeah. So like I would make electronic stuff. But then that turned into like I want to try and like abuse this to make the most realistic sounding drum kit on this program. And then like I would do like fake piano guitar. Oh, yeah. It was like a guitar set. It like sounded like some shitty MIDI guitar. So I would just make songs. I sent some to Matt. That kind of started it. And then he was like, we were like, we got to start a band. We started jamming. And yeah, it sounded like, you know, it's kind of melodics, kind of like Thursday. Did that for like a couple of years, but like never did it play shows? No. So for a couple of years, there might have been one show. But like for the most part, it was just like we would get in the basement and try to just like give ourselves goosebumps. Like you were saying. Isn't that the best feeling? Well, that's like that back then, too. I mean, not to be like back then, but it was like, that's all that mattered. And that's still all that fucking matter. There are 12 notes. Yes. And we discover these combinations that nobody has done before. Yes. And I mean, hopefully. Or just like, or somebody's done before and you do all their. Yeah. I mean, yo, sometimes, you know, I just love two notes back to back. Hey, man, you come on. Sometimes when it hits the third note, I'm like, they ruined it. That too many. Or the third chord, it's like you blew it. My dad always said a four chord song was a hit. A three chord song was a smash hit. A one chord song is a masterpiece. Yeah. Wow. There's a lot of not to be. But there's a lot of two chord songs, two chords, like something in the way. Nirvana, like four and zero. Like that's like a type of emotional. E, E, C. Yeah. Yeah, like it's like it's like an interval of four frets. You know, when through the desert on a horse with two two chords, two chord song. That's that's my love. But yeah, I don't know. Just so we would just sit there for hours, like writing songs and try to like figure that shit out and just be like, oh, I like that. Oh, because, you know, it's like we're trying to. You know, we would listen to music and get chills over it and share that with each other. And then it was like we were trying to make our own version of that happen. So we were writing all these songs. We had tons of songs. There was like little recordings of them. And then eventually there was a there was a time where it was like, oh, so and so wants to start this like hardcore punk, power violence band. So we go to jam one day and there was a kid there. Who a very special person who's saying the band. It was called East Beast. Yes. That's it. And so the band was called East Beast. The singer, you know, was crazy and we just play these wrote these power violence songs and played them. That was also like spine chilling at the moment. They're like, it was just like, this is the most fucked up music I've ever heard. And I'm like stoned in a basement. And this crazy guy was like, you know, it was like the craziest feeling ever, you know, still. And yeah, and he's saying all kinds of crazy shit. And then we played shows and like it did like really well. Like people liked it a lot. And then we were kind of like, fuck, like this is awesome. But also like this isn't like our like project, like our brainchild soul like project, you know what I mean? Right. So we're still doing the life script thing. And then like we do that on the side still just kind of practicing. And then like eventually we would just write songs for East Beast. And it was like we couldn't fit any of our other like real influences into it because the singer didn't like like any of that shit or it just didn't make sense for the band. So eventually I had written this one song or like half a song. I wrote like two riffs back to back and it was a song latency. It's on the vein EP first one self titled and we practiced it. And then me and Matt drove home from practice. He was like, you know, he's not going to like that song. And I was like, well, fuck it, then let's start our own band because why are we limiting ourselves because of this stupid person? Whatever. So we started vein and that was like the beginning of vein. And I was like, fuck it, I'll just sing and I'll play bass at the same time and we can do whatever we want. Right. And then from there on, it was like this floodgate opened of like it was like kind of like felt like the life script stuff. But all of a sudden now there was this like anger and heaviness and all this other kind of crazy other weird shit going on. And that made its way into it. And then that it became vein. Who thought of vein? What do you mean? The name. Me. Just where do Jeremy and John come from? The old guitarist at East Beast left. He got kicked out and then. And then Jeremy filled in for a show. And then he was just an East Beast, so he was just jamming with us. And also, I think he was doing life script before that, if I remember. Oh, OK, OK. We met him at Anchors Up. OK. And I actually, funny enough, grew up playing in a band with like one of his childhood best friends. Wow. Let's get Brandon, which is crazy. That's what's interesting is like I only remember Jeremy from from that era, like from 2011, because he I feel like he was a little more online. OK. He was posting guitar covers and stuff. Yeah. And I very vividly. So when I when I saw Vane for the first time, I remember seeing Jeremy being like, that's that fucking guy. That's insane that you saw the guitar. Oh, yeah, I saw the Cohe cover. I saw him. That's awesome. But that's great. So the East Beast formally becomes Vane. Yeah. And so another thing, too, was like, you know, getting to high school, getting into, like, deeper into, like, the hardcore rabbit hole and just exploring different kinds of underground music. Then I kind of came across like Screamo stuff and like one of the bands that I also kind of remember from childhood being mentioned. I remember asking my brother, I was like, what's the scariest band you've ever heard? He was like Jerome's Dream. And I was like, OK, so when I got older, I looked up Jerome's Dream and then like that that was like a pivotal piece of like like nothing was the same after hearing that kind of thing. And that that was like the biggest starting influence of Vane. Wow. Obviously, Converge and obviously tons of other bands. But that band kind of like. We would just like watch, you know, back then there was like 10 pictures of the band online, their discography in like two videos. And we would just like study it and just like absorb it all and do it. Because it felt it felt so mysterious and it felt so powerful and like special and magical. So that band was like a big factor and like also other kinds of Screamo stuff got super into at the time. Did that band or others have electronic and break peak stuff? No. Where did that come from, for Vane? Just like this is stuff we're into to. And I think Slipknot has a little, you know, yeah, but kind of there. The thing is, is like, that's not why. You know what I'm saying? Like because, yes, they have a song with a breakbeat in it. As I got older, I got, you know, more aware of the term jungle and then started looking into it and found like L.T.J. Bukum and all kinds of like other cool drum and bass jungle artists from the 90s. And a lot of their aesthetics were very similar to like what we wanted to go for with Vane on Arizona and stuff. It was like, oh, this is this type of music matches the types of, you know, vibes that we're trying to go for. So we were really listening to Drum and Bass at the time and still do. And it wasn't like a. It was really just let's get some drum and bass. Yeah, let's get some drum and bass. And it's like it was really this like high energy you know, kind of vibe. Also like a lot of trip hop stuff and a lot of the aesthetics that record were inspired by like Drum and Bass and trip hop and things like that. And I just felt I think that there's a lot of stuff about that music, too, that just influenced the playing, the ferocity of it. But yeah, it wasn't just like, oh, so let's do it. And it's like, oh, everyone's going to think that whatever. But, you know, I can't control that. It's like, it's on the record now. Who gives a fuck? Right. I love that song. Where where does John come from? So John Little Baby John at the time. So at Frostbite Fest in 2010, 11. Easties play the Fest. We're all there. It's like 1 a.m. And revenge again is going to play. So we're like staying all hanging out and John's there alone. And he was like 15. And we just started talking to him. He was like into like Street Fighter and stuff and video games. We got we should probably delve into that whole aspect. Let's get into that. And then like so. And then, yeah, we all like Mosh to Revenge at one in the morning. And it was fun. And then we'd always see John at shows. Vayne will play Connecticut all the time. John would always be Mosh and Avane. And then he was Mosh and Avane before being in the band. So he wasn't. No, he was always Mosh and Avane. One of the and one of the first times we ever played like did a weekend tour was with Jagged Visions, Floods and Recycled Earth. And we played Point Beach in Connecticut and Arranged Youth opened and they covered Smash or enemies and we all Moshed. John was singing. And he's 16. Yeah, child. And a couple of years into it, like I remember once we started writing the Arizona stuff, it was like I immediately I remember like I wrote the first demo to rebirth protocol. And I was like, I want to say like a million words over this. And there's no fucking way I'm going to be able to play and sing this at the same time. But I was pretty stubborn about stepping off the base. Right. Matt was like, dude, you should just sing in the band. Yeah. And I was like, fuck it. I'll just sing in the band. And at the time. We had a different bass player, our friend, Sean. He was playing bass. And so I started singing, just singing in like 2016. And then like a year later, one thing led to another. We need a new bass player. And Matt was like, what about John? And it was like. Did John learn bass to join? Yeah. Well, no, he already. Well, he already played guitar. OK. And he played bass in bands. Like I had seen him play bass in bands. OK. But you're still kind of scouting the killer. So he's like, yeah, he's like, yeah, I got him. I'm going to do it. And immediately I was like, this is the best idea ever. But also like, can he can he do it? And then I went and picked him up. And then he didn't know to play any of the songs. But he turned into like the best bass player ever. And cool as swag. Yeah. Amazing. It was it was awesome. It was like the best, best thing ever. And then was he yoked at that time? No. What do you mean? He was he was he had abs. He came out of the womb. Yo, he had abs and there was definition. I would tell him. I've done, you know, I was one of the people that told him, dude, if you worked out a little bit, yeah, you're going to be the biggest person in the world. Yeah, he was always definitely built, but like just added on. Yeah, just machop. He had like washboard abs. Yeah. Crazy. The living weapon. So were you guys all living together at this time? No. So. Kind of. So. I was at I was back in my parents' house around the time John joined and Matt had moved to his aunt's house, which was literally down the street. OK. So and then John moved in with him and we practiced there. So like we were there all the time. So every day you're clocking in pretty much and doing like the Terrors realm stuff. Is this when that was that was way after that was before John. OK. So like we used to practice at Josh's house. So that was like the self titled in Terrors realm era was like all Josh's house. And then by the time we went this is Matt or and then a little bit of Arizona started there too. OK. Because that stuff is a lot older than like. I think people. You were playing most of it on the all the stuff we did months before the record would come. I mean, we played songs years like Doomtech. You were playing for years. Yeah. We played like old data and like I think 2014 or 15. I could be wrong about that. But but we did play a lot of that stuff for a while. And I'm glad we did because I feel like as time went on, little changes were made or you know, you just get more. You know, when you play a song a million times, you start doing different shit or like you started. You did the live nuances on the recording. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And you developed this fan base that like knew these songs just from the live performances. So when they finally heard them on Arizona, it was like the ultimate relief. And I think it really contributed to the record crushing the way it did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's we'll get there. We'll get there in a second. We're almost there, guys. This is hardcore. The windbreaker year. Wait, was that 17? Yep. Tour the tour the world to pieces. The same windbreaker. Let me ask you something. How many of them did you give away? I can't remember. So it was really crazy because I think we made a list of like everyone that could potentially want one. And I think we rounded it up. And then I think we were like, everyone just pay for these at cost. Yeah, cool. Like throw us 20 bucks and you got one. And we were like giving them out in the parking lot. It was really funny. And then. So what was the question? How many? I always wondered if you gave them to people or if people were like, I got to have I think no, it was a friends only thing, but it was also like throw 20 bucks to get the job. Like we're like, who wants one of these? You know what I mean? And but you must. Mosh. Yeah, I got a month. Yeah. And then it created this mythos of this windbreaker. So it was this friends only thing. And then that turned into like everyone's focused on that. And then I was, you know, like immediately, like I want to just fucking put them online and, you know, and the discourse about it or whatever. And then it was like, but that will break the specialty, the mythos of the whole thing. So we held on to it for a while. And then once like we did this is hardcore in 2022. We were like, let's just make it for everyone. Yeah, when we did the when Vane was on the post human tour, I told Jeremy like save that for a rainy day. Yeah. If the van breaks down, you guys need money. Yeah. Put that online and that's like the bull. Like the harm is the bull. Exactly. Let me tell you ever green. Yeah. You ever see the thing that somebody made of that set where it's just Swiss style? Pretty good. It's pretty good. Sorry. Yeah, I've also been this is hardcore. Me. Yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah, you got the number one. We got where you got the number one. You know, yeah, so it's it's ongoing. It is what it is. It is ever ever green. Yeah. Do I love it? No. Do I hate it? No. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly like it is what it is. The terrorist realm tape had a similar mythos, I feel like it's like still a thing you can't get that everybody wants. Some kid had me sign one the other day and I couldn't believe I was holding it. How many are there? It's only like 50. Wow. Did you pack it yourself? No, that was Threat Collection, which was like Kyle from Recycled Earth and some of the Hudson Valley guys. Like did that back in the day. I love that tape. Great songs. Yeah, I love those songs. Actually, those songs, too, we got the like so those songs were recorded early on, played them a ton of times. A lot of changes were made to them. And then we recorded them on the remix record. The the is that the old old data? Yep. Actual recording. Yeah. Well, we'll get to Justin in a second. So he would this is when you signed a close casket, though, right? Two, two, two, seven, seventeen. Twenty seventeen. Yeah. Is yeah, that was when I met Justin. When did you meet? When and where did you meet? Just so Code Orange played a show in somewhere like deep in New York and they were on tour with like Gojira or something. And we had just done the like week long run with them. So we were like. So I drove to the show. Just to see it and hang out. And Justin was there and Jamie had talked to me about Justin because they had done merch. He was doing like all in merch at the time. So I initially started talking to him about merch. We weren't even talking about like because he worked at all in. And yeah, so we were talking about printing merch and we started doing merch with him. And then I had already been in his ear, though. Yeah, big time. Definitely. I mean, I remember the show we played together at the game of jowls. Yes. That was the beautiful day where I met all you guys. I watched this set and like it's so rare that that happens, you know? It's common to watch to see a band play first on a show and be like, that was cool. But like the goosebumps, every part is insane. Who are these people? I'm doing math in my head as I'm watching you, just like, where do they come from? Who are they? That guy was doing Cohe covers on Instagram. That kid's from Connecticut. He's going to be huge. This is crazy. I'm like doing math the whole time. And then like your your instruments are still on your bodies. And I'm like, who are you? That was amazing. Yeah. And that day, I called by talent, put you on life and death or asked asked if you could be on life and death by tell because you were doing it that year because we were on it and it was like, you got to get you got to get me on. You got to listen to me and put them on. So that was the first time we toured together and you played all those Arizona songs, that was awesome. And then I witnessed Silly Anthony on tour for the first time. You do this face where you put your hat sideways and you do this whole thing that I kind of got it from you. Really? The sideways hat. Yeah, the gift. Yeah. Yeah. That's like when you're just like, I'm in my I'm chilling. Yeah. Yeah. If the hat is on, it's like, yeah. It's going. Yeah. Switch, stand out, just relax. Do the face. But the face is maybe. Well, maybe I don't know how to describe it. Yeah, I'm trying to think. I think I know what face you're shot. It's still like, you know, you know, I'm sorry. I do know. I mean, it's usually accompanied by fingers. Yeah. Oh, crazy fingers that you got. Look at those. See, those are for Bayes' sand guitar. OK, so let's talk. Let's talk Arizona now. These songs have been written. You're playing them to death. So and then you're so locked in when you go into record. Does that mean so you do this record with Will Putney? Mm hmm. Is he contributing much as a producer? Does he need to contribute much as a producer? Or are you guys just so ready to go that it really doesn't mean anything? So we didn't really know him at the time. And it was like an experience we had never had before. And so it was like we were we obviously were like dead set on an album. Like, you know, this is what it is. We've been hearing this for years. So he would more or less like he knows how a good record is going to be made and comes out. So like he's in, you know, maybe helping out with like little my new things of execution or what not. But when it came to creative ideas, like there was a couple of times where he would push and just say, like, hey, this part maybe could have another part or, hey, this this part right here could add a part or maybe you should play this part half time or something. You know what I mean? And like sometimes we'd be like, no, that's not happening or like or or like, you know, maybe not. But sometimes we try to be like, damn, he was actually right. It's like a good idea. And it was like really minute stuff that actually like made a lot of a difference because like we had been also we had like demo at us at that point. It's like you can't hear it. That's beyond demo. I just even be on beyond demo. I just like I remember like the breakdown and demise automation, him suggesting it being half time. And we were like, no, that's stupid. And then we tried it when he had left and we were like, yo, that's fucked up. And we had a really similar experience that when we did post human, that was the first time we went somewhere did pre-production. Yeah. You know, yeah, that too. And that's like the dream. Growing up as a kid or whatever you the dream is like, you want to go live in the place you're making the record. You want to be consumed by it. Yeah. You want to like go home and go back and forth. Yeah. So it was sick. And but yeah, like little things like that. Or he'd be like, I feel like this part needs one more part right here. And we would sit there and like write the part, you know. So he definitely helped take it from there to there. And just even with like, you know, my new things or whatever, he wasn't like rearranging everything or OK. And you know, again, like you have to you're only you are at the end of the day responsible for your album. Like it doesn't matter if you're a producer or whoever's saying whatever. It's like you have to kind of know when when it's yes or no is wrong. So this is the first album you've written in your life. Yes. And it's this good. Sounds this good. It has received this will. Yeah. Tell me about. That feeling you felt hearing it back for the first time and just seeing people respond to it. I remember like when we left the studio, I was like, holy fucking shit, it's done. Because when we were so we made it once before. Oh, so we recorded it twice. So the first time we recorded it was with Sean Fitz, who recorded. He's like a good friend who recorded all the early vein stuff and like the East Beast stuff. We started it with him. We got the drums done and like he was in Cape Cod, which was two hours from us. So we would have to make these trips and like it would be like, you know, it took like a year to two years because of, you know, trying to line up time and trying to find a weekend to go down and all this shit. And we couldn't stay there for a month. 2016 to like late 2017. This is the beginning of 26. Like I think around March or April of 2016 is when we when we first went in to do it. And then so this would have been out a lot sooner, had that session. Yeah, but I'm glad it didn't only because like not even recording quality wise, but it was just like the songs evolved. And the ending product was way much better. But but the first one we did and then like, you know, things got tracked here and there and then I would record like a song this month and then try to wait and then we get more time so I can go record this song. I record vocals and like all different places and stuff like. And then by the time it was 2017, like a year later, we were still working on it. But that was when like the idea of like close casket was a thing. And the idea of re recording it was a thing. And at the time, myself included, everyone was like, why the fuck would we record this? We just like, you know, we just spent so much time on it. But it was like, no, I think this would be worth it. So we just did it and it was obviously worth it. But I think that so going to a place for one month and getting it all done and then leaving and being like it's done and it's perfect was fucking crazy. Like that in itself is crazy. That's what it's supposed to be. Yeah, that was the craziest thing in the world. Like I remember leaving and going, it's done. Like I don't have to come back. There's no like tiny little thing that used to be added. It's literally done. And which is it's for the best. The thing is, yeah, if you have forever to think with it, you're going to spend forever. Yeah, at some point you got to let it go. And I have a hard time doing that, but I've learned to like get better at that or whatever. And so that was an incredible feeling in itself was to be like, we literally did it. We made the album our album the best it could be. And it's done. And it became and is immediately kind of lauded as this modern classic. Yeah, which is crazy. And so, yeah, I mean, I remember like, you know, it's to me, the craziest thing is like seeing people sing the words back and know the words and like seeing people even, you know, mosh the songs or know the songs at all, because it's like only we knew these songs for like years. So now you're seeing other people share the same feeling that you're feeling. And that's like the craziest thing in the world. Still is. Like still is 100%. How did you like the post-summon tour? It was all right. I'm just kidding. It was awesome. I had that was great. Was that the same year? It was 2018. Okay. It was a great tour. Shortly thereafter. Actually, Matt broke his arm in that tour. Matt. Oh, Matt broke his hand. Moshing the harm's way. Awesome. And very early on, very early on, went home. Chris played drums. Chris played drums and the not an easy band and guy to fill in. However, stylistically similar, Chris and Matt are similar. Yeah, definitely. They definitely. Same hair. That was our first meeting. I didn't, I knew of them, hadn't met any of them. I don't think prior to that. But that was when we connected. Yes. Discovered you guys were fun and nerds. And then you met Nick, who I know we love Nick. Yeah, he's a man. That was like our second tour with Nick too. So it was all very a melding pot. Yeah. Hello, Nick and Casey a lot. A lot. Yeah. But they were going to be in flesh water and Chris. Really? And Chris? At that time on that tour, we were like, because we had the flesh water demo for like two years, just like instrumentally. And we would just be like, who did what on it? It was me and Matt just recorded it in his basement. Wow. And so, yeah, on that tour, we're like, dude, we got this rock band. You guys should be in it. And then, interestingly, we're going to. But jumping ahead. A little bit, but it fits because the tour ended in wherever we were. And then like to St. Louis. That's right. And I broke his leg. A guy broke his leg during it during the show and he stayed on leg. He stayed in the back on a pool table. Just like, oh, yeah, we thought the fubar fucking demented. Yeah. The following weekends, like a few days later was our record release. Vane dropped. But because of the broken hand. But a couple of years later, oh, yeah, we did. I think it was the isolation anniversary show. Flesh waters for sure. First first water show. That's a beautiful thing. This is a long time coming. I'm trying to tell you full circle. Now, Anthony, let's talk about Vane's first European tour. Let's talk about it. What do you remember from everything? I remember it also vividly. The only thing I don't remember it like everything. Scenery wise to me was green fields and like wicked depressing buildings. And we were in literally like the asshole of Germany. Oh, yeah, we were mostly deep in there. And I mean, I remember. Dude, everything you remember how did it how did it end up taking place? How did you get on? How did it happen? OK, we were on life and death tour and you I think we were walking around Cambridge, you were like, you guys want to go to Europe? And I was like, yes, let's do it. We were supposed to go by ourselves. Yeah. So is that to be 2019? This is 2018. 18. So just after our. Yeah, you asked us. I asked you like six or seven. This is like so, yeah, we have the tour planned and then. And it's announced before Arizona. It's announced before Arizona. So basically it was like that tour and then both of us were going to jump on the Code Orange tour right after that. So it's basically an eight week run. Yes, with like one day between not even. So we started it and, you know, I'm sure you've told the story a million times, but I want to hear from you. We get there. Didn't sleep, went to Berlin. Then the next day was the show, which was that festival. You guys had a mini bus. Many bus thing and it broke, which was our first time. We've had the same van every time we've gone the same 15 passengers. First of all, we get to the airport and I'm like, in my head as we're landing, I'm like, yo, I don't even really know who the fuck is picking us up. Like, I know we have a driver, but I don't know who he is. Get his number. He's texting us. He's like, he's like, hurry up. He's like, he's like, hurry up. I'm going to get a ticket and we get in the van. And the first thing he says, he goes, so what's the story? And I was like, what do you mean? He goes, where are we going? I was like, dude, I don't fucking know. We've never been here before. And it's like, we need to go like sleep somewhere. I don't know. Like let's go to a hotel. Yeah, I was like, I literally have no idea. And then so he was a character. He was like miserable the whole time. So he was like the laughing stock of our side of it. Oh, yeah. And then when then we would get to the green room every day and be like, what did you do today? Yeah, exactly. Tomak Tomak. Yeah. Yeah. And then so saw you guys. Bus broke down. You guys were like, what the fuck? Our one we slept in like a gigantic room that was just like filled with random people, like just laying all over the place and then perfect. Just like weird beds and shit everywhere, like tons of bands. There was that band that played that fest that was like blasting the Voo Voo Zella horn and all for God, I remember the name. That was like the craziest shit I've ever seen. Yeah. That was the first time we played virus live and like something got fucked up. Jeremy, I think fried his pedal board. Oh, sure. He plugged his pedals in and they just all fried because of the power conversion thing. Yeah, just like first time or everything. Yeah. And then I don't remember what happened next, but then there was the big thing where we realized, oh, we are not allotted any money on this tour. Like, vain isn't getting paid, which is which Tomak was like, where's my fucking money? He's like, get me my fucking money. We're all right. All right. And then. So Taylor spends the next day screaming on the phone. Yeah. And Tim, Tim, who's lovely, Tim from MAD, being like, how the fuck could you let this happen? Yeah. And we had this mini bus and this is like this whole tour. Yeah, it was for the bus. It was like, it was like, we'll go if we can sleep. Yeah. That's our only our only thing is we just want to after this is our eighth European tour. Yeah. We just want to sleep after having the mini bus. Finally, last year, I can tell you, you did the right thing. Like that is worth it. Yeah. You know, I would think so. They don't want it. Yeah, no, I wouldn't know. Shit on. So so we get to the first show and it's like it won't turn back on. OK. Oh, also, Vane's not making any money. What? Now you're like essentially could make less money or we're fucked or and it's like whatever we would we invited you. Yeah, you know, so it's like, why would we do this to this band? We can either take the same van we've had for all eight European tours and then Vane's van will be covered. Yeah. Or we can get this mini bus in there. Absolutely fucked for years. You know, yes. But I didn't realize that that was the big deciding factor. Yeah. Well, huge respect. Yeah, they you were texting me. Yeah, we were talking because we had shared a miserable European experience not too long before and it was very much like, dude, we're in the same fucking. He explained the whole thing. Yeah. And it was even at the time. DVD is still at the time. I remember telling you like, well, you did the right thing. Like you did the respectable thing. If we didn't absolutely love you, it would not have gone that way. You know, thank you. Realistically, if it was like a band that MAD picked that was just opening. Stranger. It would have been like, guys, I'm sorry, we I need to sleep. Yeah. But you are so you're you guys the camp and the band, the legacy, everything worth every decade of sleep I lost. Thank you. Thank you very much. I remember you had this sleeping medication. Or the German one. No one was sleeping on the door. No, you don't. They don't do that. Yeah. It was very hard to adjust. And I remember one thing before I remember. Tomak, at one of the venues, is like he backed the van into like something and scraped it. And he tried to blame it on Joey. He's like, you were happy. Joey was Joey was there. He's like, you're trying. You were helping me back up and and whatever. And he's like, I need my fucking money. And then I said, you got to talk to Taylor. He goes, I don't want to talk to this Taylor. Blah, blah, blah. And I was like, dude, I don't know. And then Taylor walked out and I watched him like sift through his pockets for like all this stuff he gave him the money. He was like, you don't talk to them. You talk to me. And I was like, that was awesome. They work for you. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, that was fucking sick. You are guys. They're supposed to know point A and point B. That's all. That's their job. I can't read. No. Yeah. Yeah. Seriously. Help me. Yeah. You would like get drunk and like all of a sudden become really nice to us. And it was really weird. I'd be like, I don't want to talk to you. Yeah. Got a shout out, Joey. Joey's the best. Joey was row dog day one or not. Well, he through 2017 through 2020, Joey was pretty much on every single tour. The best guy. Best guy. He's on our tour right now, actually, just just hanging out. Old school. It's the best. I don't think we would have survived those sets without it. No, not at all. I don't think there's a lot. I don't think there's a lot of things. Yeah. How was how was the tour? Not good. I'm shocked. It was fun though. Yeah. Fun. We had fun. Dude, if we weren't with you guys in like we did or we were with Bailey and like or something didn't get along with it would have been the worst time. But we made the best time out of it. There was a relief every night. Yeah. Yeah. When we got when we got back together, we all had sleepovers every night. And that's the best. That's the best. And like, you know, I prefer that to this day over hotel room. Well, you want to know why is because maybe everyone's some of the best tours ever are like when everyone's hanging out all the time. And it's hard to do that when there's hotels or things like that. But like when it's like everyone's staying in the same neighborhood at different houses and then everyone goes to eat together. Yes. Moves as like one giant unit. Yeah. That was like that was what was really special about that. And like so then it was like going back to the question about the feeling of the Arizona songs when the tour ended. The next day, Arizona came out and it was like the first day of the code orange tour. So it was like we went through hell. Is that true? Yes. Well, a couple of days it was like very short. Like we got home. Outbreak Fest was the best show. It was like last show. We played shows to essentially nobody. Like there was like zero people, five people, like no one fucking there. Couple players playing to each other. There was a couple of good shows and then outbreak was like what the fuck. Yeah. First UK show. Yes. Craziest fuck. Like that was like the grand finale. And on top of that, it was like because we had played all those shows, we were like ready. Yeah, you're tight. You're well. Titus fuck like super warmed up and also with zero like vibe from anyone else. So now when there's all the shit is happening, it was like an explosion. Like and so that Boston show, which was the day it came out, was like such a. That was like a very crazy feeling because it was like Arizona came out. It was one of the craziest shows we ever played. We were playing new songs. People knew the songs like that was a very. That was with you guys and we could phase play that. Like a phase play that. Yeah, that was first show. First show of the throw was Boston, which was beautiful. At the Paradise. That was incredible. Oh, Paradise. Yeah. That was like a very like that moment you were talking about. Like it was like, let's fucking go. And then the New York show the next day was like the same way. It was like. And that would kind of just be like, oh, this is the next two years of pain. You know, yeah, it's good now. Yeah. Yeah, it was crazy. Especially because like, you know, early on, like people wouldn't watch or they didn't get it or it was like weird or something. So to see that happen, it was really wild. It was it was one of those times and place things where you had when you had everybody with the scream of freaks got it. They were like, oh, this is yeah, these guys like drones dream. Yeah. You had the the the windbreaker, Mosh warriors. You really captured everybody at the same time. Yeah, it's like a giant melting pot. Yeah, which is like where we are today. Yeah, right. And it wasn't like that. So no, no, no, no, no, not so long. I mean, that's the thing. Like when, you know, I would go to Anchors Up, I'd be like, oh, this is like, you know, this is hardcore punk. This isn't like you don't wear a corn t-shirt here or something. You know what I mean? Which you can do whatever the fuck you want. But it was like very more just hardcore punk like through and through. I promise the world could not have existed. And not in a fast like that. And like, yeah, so and that is what I liked about it, too, because it was so different than what I had experienced before or heard before. So part of this interruption. Hey, big man, playing some games. My buddy loves games. Story. Well, second. Night Patrol in theaters January 16th. On that tour, the U.S. tour we did right after that that started immediately, you brought a fellow named Eli Joe on the tour. Yeah. Tell me about your experience with video games and then meeting Eli Joe. So, I mean, we were always playing video games around like 2011, 12, when Mortal Combat 9 came out, the like remake. We played that a lot. And then we were like, what does this look like at a crazy level? So we looked it up like MK9 tournament and then all of a sudden you're seeing like all this high level footage and stuff. And then kind of we got into that world a bit. We would just play like Street Fighter and like Matt and Josh were really into like Smash and stuff. I was never the best at it. I'd always play it, you know. And then when Street Fighter 5 came out, it was like Evo, which is like, you know, that this is hardcore of fighting games. Yeah. Like that is that happened. And Eli Joe was like in the top eight for Street Fighter and we're watching it on TV and we're like, dude, this guy. You know, and we knew he liked metal and stuff because he would wear like band shirts and shit. And then like a year later, he was out of Angel. And and I was like, dude, you're never going to guess who's here. So I like Joe and you watched his Evo final win. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't win the whole thing, but he made it like very deep in the top eight, which is crazy because it's usually all Japanese players. Wow. He has a pretty significant Twitch following too. Yeah. He's like he is a comes from like the real underground of that type of shit, like the grassroots New York City fighting game stuff. And so but eventually and he loves like metal and hardcore and stuff. So like eventually it just became friends with him and like he's actually like one of our greatest friends now, you know, like through and through one of the best guys are still like devout video game guys. Yeah. 100% what are you playing these days? Um, so last year, actually on the topic of fighting games, I got really big in a Marvelverse Capcom too, because they did like a reissue of the collection. I start getting into that and like I've been obsessed with it for the past year. Um, and then just like, I don't know, a bunch of different. We're always looking at stuff on like steam, trying out new shit. Um, obviously love like survival horror stuff. Anytime like a Resident Evil game comes out or that's your shit. I'm putting away like three days like to nothing else. What do you think of how Requiem is looking? I haven't seen anything really actively. Actively. Yeah. Like I saw the first trailer, but I'm staying away from it. I always try to like stay away from it. Like you just don't want to know. No, I don't want to know anything. You know who the two leads are. Yeah, I know that. But like I don't want to see any like I want to turn the game on and be like, holy shit, totally blind. I did the same thing with Village because I loved by it. So much. Yeah. And I'm glad I did. So I'm kind of do because when you play the demos and stuff, it's like the beginning of the game. Yeah. They turn on your like I've already seen it. I've done this, but I think it's going to be good. I'm really excited. I love the last two. Yeah. They haven't missed in a long time. No. How do you feel about for remake? I love it. Really? Yeah. And that was great. I was hesitant about it because I was like, this doesn't need to be remade. It's already a perfect game. The controls were just insane. Still fine. And then like once they once I started playing the remake, I was like, oh, it's just actually like I think both are still great, but it's like literally better. So good. OK. You a PC guy? No, I am. Yeah. I got one last summer. Welcome. Beautiful. And you picked the right time. We did. Yeah. Yeah. And would you be? Yeah. Honestly, I don't I have a friend who's like super in it. And I was like, here's my budget. Like I want something that can literally play. I want to just like fucking play the Resident Evil games with like mods. Like I don't want to do anything crazy. But I'll check out your specs after. Yeah, we'll see what it looks like. And it's cool. He he built it so it's like in like a smaller case. Yeah. Yeah. So it looks like small. It almost looks like a console. Nice. But, uh, dude, I love it. Totally actually like life change. Like once you once you go PC, there's no. That's OK. No going back. Especially if you if you dive in a little. Like having your friend built it will mean that when something goes wrong, you got to hit him up. Yeah. When you build it yourself. Yeah. You go, oh, it's that. Part of me was like, I think I could do it. And I was watching certain stuff and I went, I'm not fucking with that. Dude, it's you don't need to redo the GPU thermal paste, you know, but you could build it. It's literally the same thing as putting together a pedal board and working a dock, which you know you can do. It's the same thing. Putting together that midi switcher was something. Those are crazy. And you know, it's not it's not bad of me now, but I and I had this same kind of logic like and that's why I was like, maybe I could do it. And I looked at him doing it. I was like, no fucking way. And also I watched him started up and it was like, you're not working. And I was just like, dude, I would not be able to do this. Like so it is a lot. It can be. Yeah. The vein.fm name change. Yeah. What happened there? There was a band from Texas that was like these old guys. They played fucking like Led Zeppelin covers or something or. Their name was Vane. And they saw us on. Oh, because we were doing that tour of Kill Switch. Oh, yeah. And on the wall, there was a bunch of flyers and there was two veins. Like they were playing there and we were playing there and they saw it. And they were like, what the fuck? And then came after us. And I guess they technically had music out first or like social media presence first or something. All right. And I remember at the time there was a like a DJ or like an EDM artist that would always pop up on Spotify. They had like millions of plays and shit. So in my head, I was like, if these people are coming after us, what after this guy comes after us? And we didn't want to change the band name. So we're like trying to find other ways to, you know, work like find the loophole. And they said an extension was fine. And I picked the FM because I mean, A, we didn't want to like totally change the name. We wanted to keep it. You don't want to be Vane, A, D. Yeah. He also don't want to get rid of Vane completely. Yeah. It was like our favorite band name. Yeah. So we added the FM and I had still have, I haven't released anything on it in over 10 years, but I had a solo project. It was called Death FM. And so the FM to me kind of came from that, but it's really just like FM, just like, I don't know, music, you know, really. Radio. Yeah, dope shit. That's cool. And then that went on to define your whole collective. And so we kind of leaned into it as to define the collective and also to like, you know, like to me, you still call the band Vane. Yeah. I mean, like I still call it Vane, like everyone calls it Vane. No one is like Vane FM. Some people do, but like the new, the young kids are and I want them to know. Just call it Vane. Nobody says that. Just call it, call it Vane. Ghosts have the same thing. They change the ghost. And then if everyone just called it ghost. Exactly. I'm seeing kids say, do you like I rate NYC? Come on. Exactly. It's all legal bullshit. It's jargon. It's just stupid shit. And, uh, but we, I think it worked out for the better. And I'm actually really happy it happened. I feel like it spawned so many new ideas and, you know, inspiring things. And like, I remember that was also around the time we dropped the remix record and that kind of like fit. Yes. That it's totally, yeah. So it's cool. And like flesh water is still flesh water, but like, you know, it's FM as well, living weapon FM. So it worked out for the better. It's awesome. Created a perfect lay, an easy way to get a new Instagram name easily and make sure that it's yours. And it's just more now you know which one it is. Yeah. The pandemic hits. What, what's, what are Vane's plans now? Um, and are any of them ruined by it? This world's going to ruin you. So the world shut down. And then a month later, we were supposed to go in to record it. And like, I remember at the time there was a lot of like, no one knew what the fuck was going on at the time. Everyone's paranoid thinking, you know, everything. So we were like, what the fuck do we do? And we're like, I, you know, obviously we want to go do this. I called Will and he was like, I'm down to do it. Like, let's do it. So we just all went and we locked in the studio for that whole month. We didn't leave. Wow. Jeez. And his post lockdown or this is literally right when the lockdown. Oh, shit. So the world locked down and then we went and made the record, which was cool. Because we didn't, I literally didn't even step out the door. And, um, and we were all locked in just only working on that. Even will like will slept downstairs. Everyone was in the same studio. Wow. So luckily we were able to make the record. Yeah. Um, I think it's your best one. I agree. Going into it. We were like, oh, maybe, you know, half the people who like Arizona probably don't like this album and we finished it. And I was like, this is literally just a better record. Good. But, uh, yeah. So then, so then like, I don't know, there was just like, we were just in purgatory pretty much because it's like we had a record done and then it was just like getting artwork done. Um, and then like, you know, trying to get the record to press essentially. And at the time that pressing plants were all backed up. This damn, this damn WAP seven inch. Yeah. Oh my God. I forgot about that. Pussy seven inch. And all that. And Taylor Swift. And Taylor Swift and Gaga. I mean, no, it wasn't Gaga because Chromatica vinyl took a year. Is it Dell? So it was you and you and Gaga were both affected. Everybody was affected. The, this vinyl thing, dude. Yeah. And, and like a lot of bands didn't wait and it really helped them. Yeah. But I think in Vane's case, Vane was one of those bands that throughout the pandemic, all these people are inside discovering hardcore. Right. And Vane was one of the bands they couldn't wait to see. Which I do think greatly benefited you. But the, the record. Maybe didn't connect to the same way Arizona did as, as we've talked about. How do you feel about it now? And are you seeing an uptake, uptake in support of support in the record now? I don't really like, I'm not visually seeing it, but I do talk to people sometimes where they're like, this world's going to ruin you as my favorite album. And I can tell that they're like deeply obsessed with that one specifically. And that's cool. And like, I feel like, I don't know, that was the record that we wanted to make. So it's like, again, it's like, however it's received is out of my control. And the people that do connect with it, probably connect with it the same way that we do. So at the end of the day, that's all that matters. I do think it's a better record than Arizona, but I also think that it's a record that you should listen to in the dark with your headphones on. And like Arizona is one that you could blast in a car with the windows open. Any song, any time, throw it on out of sequence. And that's kind of, so it's like, obviously it's not going to maybe be received the same way. But I do talk to people that like randomly who are like obsessed with it. And that's really cool. I mean, the approach to doing your first sophomore LP. It's it's hard. We also had that kind of planned before Arizona was even recorded. Jesus, like we had. I made a demo of a song and it was the part at the end. It's like this world's going to ruin your singing part. I remember I played it in the car for Matt. He's like, that's cool. That could be an album name. I was like, that should LP to let's do it. Wow. So we had that. And then there was like another demo in 2017. The killing womb demo was first made in 2017. Banger. So like before Arizona, we were already like new kind of where we were going with it because it is hard if you finish something and then there's just no more ideas or. But I wonder about that. We're always kind of like a step ahead. I feel like you. So, you know, peripherally, you see groups, pockets of people, pockets of creativity in your friends all over the country, you guys being you and your brother being a group, you guys being a group that we that we found out. You always seemed to be like, yeah, we're thinking next year. Yeah, like you're always code is another really good example of that. Absolutely. Yeah. I think a lot of that, too, was from spending time just working on stuff alone without really touring all the time or yet. Like we did so much groundwork in the early days of being a band that was solely just to make our music good and make it the shit that we like that I think. And again, Arizona took so long to came out that I guess it makes sense to me because sometimes there isn't, you know, a next thing and you have to like figure it out. But we were from that point early on until this world's going to ruin you. That was all kind of like in the tank for a while. And at this point, there is there has not been a next thing for me. No. Is there are there any plans? OK, I like last vein performance was in Milwaukee. Yeah, we did some like so we had a show booked like a year in advance at Sick New World. Yeah. And then so we just fulfilled it, did some shows on the way out. It was cool. Did that want to be my last show at the band? No. But it was cool. It meant to me, it's not done. So. Cool. There you go. OK, yeah. You always talk about being one step ahead. That step. This world is going to ruin you. It comes out in twenty twenty two. Fleshwater demo comes out in twenty twenty. So is that is fleshwater that next step to in your minds already? Is it like, OK, when we're back, this vein record is going to come out. Then we're going to really focus on fleshwater. It wasn't as much as like we're really going to focus on fleshwater only. It was just like we got both these records, let's put them out. And then we were just doing both. Yeah. And then. Creatively, I found myself in a place where I got like a new idea for the new fleshwater album. So I kind of follow things based on that, like where ideas are creatively at the time, what's on the table and just into it. That and that's kind of where it led to that. You know, and we still did vein throughout it. Mm hmm. Fucked around and still like, you know, wrote stuff toward and then eventually it's just that I had to take a break. And then this, you know, became full time and it's still. Creatively, I have, you know, still I feel like a lot I want to do with fleshwater, too, and vein. Like I think there's a lot to that you can do. And I feel like I feel like still like this, like getting just started kind of feeling, you know what I mean? Like I still it's like we were talking about earlier. Like I feel like as you get older, you should just your music should get better. Ideas should get better. So I kind of just follow what is creatively there at the time. And that's kind of where it led to 2000. And you know, there's there is stuff beyond that, too, now, like in the background. So I'm sure eventually they will get to that point. OK. And so let's go back now. Fleshwater was at one point, an idea between you, just you and Matt, yeah, this demo together. How does the rest of the band come into it? So we recorded the demo. We had it for like years. And originally I was like had vocal ideas on it. But I couldn't really tie it all together all the way. And we would literally like. On life and death tour, we were like bumping the fleshwater demo. In the van, like just like instrumentally, like throw it on. And then we would like talk to this person, that person. We talked to so many people about maybe you should sing in it or we got this band. And then eventually, Marissa, you know, I'd been dating her. She's obviously an incredible singer. So she just sent me a demo of Linda Clear of like her singing on it. And it was like immediately like you're the singer. Yeah, yeah, that was this is the man. Like I would have never thought of that. That was incredible. That's what this is. So then we were like, let's just finish up this demo vocally. So then me and her got in, tried to got together and tried to figure out like because all the original ideas I may have still had, I kind of used on those songs. And then we just finished it up together. And then a summer of COVID after we recorded this world's going to ruin you. It was like, oh, let's work on some fleshwater demos because I had some riffs and ideas. So then Jeremy started jamming with me and Matt. OK. And then so. And he's who would you say is the best guitar player in the in the fleshwater? Yeah, Jeremy is the best guitar player in the world. He's and he's even crazier at bass. It's fucked up. So you got you. You got him doing the right thing, but he can do everything. Yeah. I want you all to know if you've only seen fleshwater, they're hiding a machine. Yeah. On that bass. You see you see him on the bass. Yeah, he shrobs it. Yeah. So yeah, he was playing bass. And then the four of us recorded. We're not here to be loved. And then we started playing shows. And then we needed to record was recorded before shows. Yes. Wow. And then we were like, all right, John should just play guitar. And he loves playing guitar. Well, something he like, he likes stuff like that, too. So we're like, fuck it, just play guitar. Something I loved about all of that happening was that you guys just kept you just took the whole team pretty much. The same like I love that. Yeah, that's a great thing. Every little switches. But yeah, very, very cool. And when you're talking about those pockets of people around the world, it's the same thing, you know, it's like the same people in like I'll do this now. Yeah, you do that now. Yeah. Oh, there's only so many people that can like do it. Yeah. And is it the rise of fleshwater happening so quickly that leads to vain just wanting to take a break? No. No. No. OK. That's all I say. Yeah, I got. Let's talk about we're not here to be loved. Crazy record. Quick songs. That's you. Have you written like vain doesn't really have music like that, especially it had to have been hard. Maybe it wasn't. But the second vein record, the songs are more mature, longer. It's a it's a it's a big singular song. It's a it's a big singular thought this record. It's is it hard to strip down a song and do these like minute and a half easily digestible rock and roll songs at the time? No, it just felt awesome and natural. And like I also feel like the song is done when it's done. And so, you know, a song that's seven minutes long and it's supposed to be seven minutes long, it shouldn't feel like it's seven minutes long. And if a song is only supposed to be a minute and a half any longer, it could suck. And it's just like you have to intuit that. So I feel like the first record that's just it's basically a collection of songs that were like of riffs and songs and ideas that had been collected over years. Not so much a concept. Yeah, it was it was really similar to Arizona. Yeah. Yes. But Arizona had more of a direction. OK. We're not here to be loved was like here's all the songs we got. And it's pretty eclectic. It's very eclectic. There are a lot of stuff sounds different. I feel like that kind of blended to the aesthetic as well of like like I spy books or like a big inspiration where there's all this shit like you find in a drawer in an old house or like a toy chest or something. You know, that was cool. Name one thing in this photo. Yeah, exactly. There's a bunch of it. It's just a collection of songs, you know. And I love that about it. The second one is kind of the same thing on the this world's going to ruin you five or it feels like one single single. Yeah, definitely. Where did the doonie doonie doonie doonie doonie. Dude, literally where did that come from? So I literally wrote what was really said. I wrote half that I wrote half of this, if anything, which the other two demo songs me and Matt Jan them. We finished those. And then he was like he literally started playing the drumbeat and I started playing the riff at the exact same time. And then what are you going to do? And then like he kind of like was directing the like structure things. And I was just playing the riffs. And I think the the length of the song is the time it took to write it. Like we literally just I think we literally just fucking played it. And then were you the one to go? That was my yeah, that was that one was mine. But the changeup is. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. But then yeah, he came out to do come to do come. And it's just like it just happened like that song just fucking happened. Isn't that the best? And we were like, whoa, that's crazy. Yeah, that's all right. Let's record it now. Yeah. Wow. Wow. We have three songs. You can't beat that. And those are those things that only happen when you're not overthinking it and you are a new band and you have nothing to prove and there's nothing to follow up. There's no pressure. Absolute fucking magic just happening. That's why I start so many bands. Yeah. I used to be kind of like not into that. But I think my brain is going towards that. Like now I'm like because also when you have a heavy band and like a melodic band, it's like one hand washes the other year. When you do one thing, you want the other thing and it keeps. I'm actually appreciating that now that it keeps both things healthy. Yeah. This guy's got. If you. But it helps. No, it is healthy. It's healthy. It makes none. None of them get diluted. It's cool when some things are eclectic, but sometimes not everything can fit. Yeah. You know, like they. It has melodic shit, but it's like a different type of melodic. It's not doesn't. Yeah, it's not dinosaur junior melodic. It's it's like a more fucked up type of melodic feeling. So it's like that's why we got flesh watered because we love that shit, you know, like sunny day and home and all that stuff. Tell me about the videos. You did a lot of that yourself, right? Yeah, that was also just like I was always making video stuff, but I never made like a full blown video besides the 20 seconds, 20 hours vain video, which is more just like compilation of tour footage. But yeah, I was like, let's just do it ourselves. You know, let's just do everything ourselves. It's a side project, whatever. And it's just fun. Let's have some fun and go do it. It's simple. No pressure. And who are the directors you were inspired by? I don't know. I mean, I feel like we've talked about this before. And you had you had very specific references for there's a there's definitely like people that, you know, I look up to. But like for that, for the like Kiss the Ladder video specifically, not really anyone in particular. There was like one kind of choppy effect, like frame rate effect that you see in like fallen angels or something. You're just kind of there doing the thing. Cool. You know. And isn't that carousel gone now? Yeah, it's gone. Oh, there's a temporary one. I like grew up down the street from there in the summertime. And I used to work at that arcade. Wow. Yeah. But yeah, I was just some carousel, talk to the guy from some money, just sat there and ran it all night. That's awesome. Yeah, he was cool. So this record explodes pretty quickly. Let's talk about some of the surreal experiences so far. And there's the reaction that you notice from it from the record coming out. It was definitely jarring, like in a weird way. Because you were truly not expecting it. No, I wasn't expecting it at all. Yeah. And like, you know, I was just like, I didn't really know what to make of it, to be honest. And like, I don't know. I really don't know. I kind of just was like, whoa, that's crazy. And like, I don't really look online. I don't pay attention. That's good. I really don't like. Very good. And, you know, half the time we're at the show, like, like sometimes I'll notice the reaction or what's going on. But at the time when it was first happening, it was definitely weird. Like, I was like, what the fuck's going on? But, you know, you just don't pay attention to stuff like that, I guess. But Justin's telling you, hey, this is working. Let's do more. Like you guys need to do some tours. No, he's not. OK. He's just going, whatever you want to do. Yeah, whatever you want to do. And honestly, it wasn't till like a year later, I was like, yo, you have to like be our manager. Yeah. Like there's no because we were home homey. You know, he basically was our manager. But I was like, I want you to be the guy. OK. Please. And it's while you have a ton of major labels and managers in your ear. Oh, I mean, see, that's the other thing is we had already been through this before. And like the vein pop wasn't maybe as crazy as what flesh water was. It was a pop. It was fucking crazy. No, it's still the band is still streaming crazy. So it was like, you know, we had already been through these ups and downs. And another thing about 2017, because I don't even think, like I said, me and Justin started talking about merch. Eventually, it led to. Label stuff because he was just there was all these offers coming in for vein. There was all this stuff going on, and it was all really fucking confusing. And it was all really like it was weird. It was like, what, you know, what's the right thing to do? This person, I don't know this and that. And it was all this chaos. And eventually it came down to just like Justin being like, dude, I'll I'll put your record out like I'll do one record and let's do a seven inch. Because some labels were asking for four or five. Yeah. And like, you know, when you're a kid, you think, oh, I listened to this these bands on this label when I grew up. And I was in these bands on this label when I grew up and artistically, you're lumping it all together. And this is my dream. But then you get older and you that was when I started to understand how it all worked. And I was like, this is really fucking weird. Predatory. Yeah, it sucks. And so Justin was like the light in the dark of like, hey, I'll just do this. And something in my gut truly felt like it was the right thing to do. He's the guy. Yeah. I was like, I don't know what it is, but I think this is the right thing to do. I trust this guy and everything was great. And it's been great ever since that. And he's the number one. He's the number one. Got a supporter of your team, you know, absolutely. He's like, you know, the extra member of the band that we wouldn't be. He's helped us out a lot and also like, you know, taught us a lot. And without him, like, you know, you could go like, I don't remember who's saying this earlier, but certain things can happen that changes your trajectory and bad things could happen, you know. So I'm thankful for him. And I'm also thankful for the fact that, like, I still to this day, especially now, I don't fucking think about record labels once. I love it. And some people have to and it sucks. And it's a necessary evil, but it's a it's like the end of the day, it's a fucking business contract. And there's some people they're going to have their best interests in mind. Some people they won't. And so I'm just thankful that, like, I can just wake up and think about ideas. And if I were to be like, hey, I want to put this record out tomorrow, he would be down. He would submit it and say, some of the ways. Let's do it. Let's do it. And so I'm eternally thankful for that. But yeah, like when flesh water, people started liking it, like we had already been through this type of thing. So I wasn't like, oh, my God, like, you know what I mean? I was like, obviously I appreciate it. Here we go. I'm not trying to be like, I'm not thankful for it. I appreciate it, but like I'm not like, you know, is the first tour on the record, the harm's way tour? That was the first show we ever played. No, but the the one in the 23. One 24. Oh, no. Oh, the tour, the tour. I'm sorry. That was a no, that was a second tour. It can't be possible. First tour we did was with. Recorded it in 2023. And it came out in 2024 on Taylor's birthday. No, it was it. No, it was it was 2023. 100 percent. It was it was fall 23. Kale was alive. Yo, hey, the last time I talked to Kale was outside Gilman Street on that tour after the twitch or before the twitching tongue set. Yeah. Oh, yeah. At Gilman during your set, it was 2023. Me and Kale talked for like an hour and a half. Yeah. Super deep. And then I remember watching the twitching tongue set. Great set. And there was this part of the set where he would choke the symbol during Preacher Man, he looked at me there like it was all this. It felt like a weird fucking movie. There's nothing about it now. Was that the first tour? The first second one or third? The first tour we ever did was with Candy and. Oh, yeah, I saw that. That was at the beginning of that year. And then two months later, we did a tour. No pressure and coyote. And then we went to Europe. That summer. And then how was that? It was cool. We were with Coyote. OK, so, you know, everything. Oh, I saw your first Paris show ever. Yeah, you were there. You were there. Just happened to be there. It was unbelievable. Yeah. Dude, I remember watching that. Just being like, oh, my God, they did it again. Yeah. Who are these people? Well, I just think about you seeing your other. The veins first Paris show. And this is the opposite. Yeah. The room is fucking wall to wall packed. These these ravenous French Corbin know all the words. Wow. They're moshing to this rock music. There's a cool venue, too. It was a cool venue. There was a food's ball table of same. Mm hmm. Oh, yeah. We're playing food. Yeah. And then in the fall of twenty twenty three, we did the common suffering tour. You did the job. Did direct support. That was that was like the big that might have been the first full U.S. because I think then you know, the no pressure one was a U.S. But I think it might have skipped some. It was a little bit shorter. So, yeah, like pretty much like first, like proper full U.S. That tour was incredible. That was a lot of fun and grown best people. We did a week. We did a lot of of hanging out and like late stage. Arms weight doesn't do that as much. But this was that we like went to Reno together. Remember, we backed the trailers up. Oh, and we went to the casino. Went to the casino just kind of a thing. Yeah, that's a classic you guys think. The casino. Yeah. But we we truly first arms weight or we went to the casino as well. Yeah, we just, you know, we genuinely watched them play Wheel of Fortune. Yeah, back then, brutal game back then, not anymore. But we just wanted to hang out. Yeah, you know what I mean? Because there is a there is a kindredness with you guys. No, it's natural. I think that tour is kind of where it is happens with flesh. Yeah, I think so, too. The only I mean, there was one bad show on that whole tour. It was Salt Lake. I don't know that one was a little rough. Where was it? Remember, Angel Dust was going to play, but Justice was. Yes, yes. Yes, it was at the Beehive. Beehive. That one was a little weird. But that whole tour was fucking awesome. New York was incredible. Yeah, there was a lot of great shows on it. A lot of great. And then it ended at the Metro. Oh, yeah. First time. It seemed like on that tour was when you guys actively discovered that like this whole other different hive of people is coming to see Flash Water. Very, you know, so that first kind of started on the candy tour. OK, there'd be a wave of people where it was like, I don't know where the fuck these people came from. And it was that was when it was that was the first glimpse of like what the fuck's going on. But I will say they would stay. Oh, yeah, they would stay through the harm's way. They wanted to see some live rock. They also loved Ingrown too. And like, yeah, I don't know, even on the tour now, like they watched our head fertilizer and like flip the fuck out. Yeah, that's amazing. And it was scary, you know? Yeah, it's hard to follow that. Yeah. And and Chris Mills was sweating every night. But honest, honest to God, it was never there was never a crazy walkout or anything. The people. Totally different things to you. And it was that's that's what you want from a direct support band. You want a different crowd. Yeah, there's this other thing, you know, it's awesome. I loved that tour. I was very happy about it. Yeah, I'm glad I got to see it and be on it for one day. It was great. So he played to cruelty. But yeah, that was a great show. It's insane. Cruelty came for just our two shows. It's so cool. Unbelievable. Did the math with zoom and he was like, I think if we sell 100 t shirts, we're OK. They sold those hundred shirts. How long? When did you do this DevTown store? Oh, earlier last year or spring of 25. What was that like? I mean, it's like crazy. This thing. I saw them play at the United Center. It's actually a dream come true. The Jordan's Jersey in the rafter. My friend on stage. When I found out, I was like, we need to practice. Oh, shit. I was like, oh, fuck. Yeah, how how intensely are you preparing for the live show before anything? I just to be honest, I really just like. Was like, I know what I need to do to prepare for this. Got to get this record done and also like got to figure out this pedal board. Got to play these songs. Got to do all this shit, whatever. I just focus on those things one day at a time. And then all of a sudden we were there. Yeah. And I was like, holy fuck, we're here. And played the first set. It was sick. It was like jumping off a cliff. And then watched then they were all great. And it was like watching DevTones play every night. It was like a dream come true. Were they all arenas? Yeah, this is the craziest thing in the world. Yeah, I remember I said goodbye to him because I took Nick's car. I don't know if you remember. Yeah, Nick. Nick was on the tour for a little while with them and he needed his car taking care of blah, blah, blah. I went and said goodbye to you and you guys were eating in the bulls catering area. It's all like mahogany and like gold. And the nicest catering I've ever seen in my life. Yeah, it's just where the bulls eat. Some of the catering was crazy. Yeah. And our DevTones like actively supportive of flesh water. Like, is it awesome? OK, they're fucking awesome. They handpicked you. It was like, yeah. You know what? Well, they were in the vein too, right? They vein played a festival that they do. The street in LA. Yeah. Yeah. And like, I don't know, that tour was like you're on a tour at the highest level with the realist bands. Wow. They actually give a shit about what they're doing. This is what it's like. And they can all play. They can all play and like who is direct support? Mars. Mars Volta, also incredibly inspiring band. Like it's just both those bands are some of the realist people ever do it. So there's no bullshit. And it was just like magnificent. It was like, this is art on the highest level. Wow. And, you know, DevTones will play every night. And it's like there's cool production shit, but it's them on the stage. Like just being them. Did you at any point? As always. I'm sorry. Did you at any point talk to them about their kind of resurgence? Yeah, a little bit. I think it got brought up just because like they're bigger than ever now. Those are the biggest shows they ever played. Yeah. So I guess I'm wondering if they had a feeling of like, yeah, I think a little bit for sure. I think they were just stoned out. Like even they're surprised by the catering. I think I think I think they are genuinely on top of the world. And like, I think they they sounded so good every night. That's awesome. They really brought it like brought it 100 percent. So I think they were obviously having that moment too, for sure. Very cool. So now it comes time again. You got to do the the dreaded sophomore LP once again. You've felt this before. You've done this before. You're locking in your clock and in a way different way than the first record. How long does it take to write and record 2000 in search of the endless sky? First idea was incepted in the end of 2022 or 21. I think it was like right after that show. After the harm's way show. I came home and I remember writing a couple of riffs. Then like I had some shit laying around. A couple of months later, I'd sat home. Like we went on tour to say more and map Roka's hand again. I get home. I'm home alone. And like I just had like two pedals that I got combo amp. I put like my computer in the living room. And just like rip the bong and made music for like a week straight. And a lot of that was incepted in that time was like 2000 demos. Wow. So this is two years before we're not here to be loved comes out. Or it's the same. It's the same year it comes out. OK. It's earlier that year. We're not here to be loved wasn't out yet. Right. So I was like all these things started to come together and it's like, you know how it is when you write a song and you're like, this is the seed of a bigger thing. I'm not here yet. Yeah. But this is like you're clearing the land and you're like, oh, whoa, there's all this space here where I could build a house. Yes. This is the foundation of it. So like that song was Jetpack off the new record. So like once Jetpack came together because I had some of the riffs and the ideas for a long time, once Jetpack came together, it was that moment of like, you know, old data was that for Arizona or like the killing one was that for this world's going to ruin you. It's like this song kind of paints the picture of the whole thing. There was like Jetpack, which I when I first heard Jetpack was like, that's got to be first single. Yeah. Which was it was either first or second. That's the first one. Love that. Green Street had an early version. Raging Storm had an early version. Like there was like a lot of songs in that time period where it was like, this is Incepted. This is the vibe. And so, you know, and then from there just took a while of, I think there was like another kind of burst like later that year of a couple more songs. And then around summer of 23 was when it was like, OK, this is like 60 to 70 percent on to make it 100. Excellent. All the songs are here. Let's work on them and refine them. And so then we recorded it like the beginning of 24. And then took a while for the vocals to get done. You had to redo it. You did those at home. We do them. We did them at home. We did them at home in the last one. You know, I think I was more familiar with the songs than Marissa had been. And it's always like it's a great challenge that I like, but it's fitting both of our ideas, fitting both of our voices into the picture. The records in a higher tuning. So she was trying to figure out how to sing on it. Drop C. So it was like it was like, you know, there's all these different challenges and then like we recorded it and like her told me that I had fucked something up that I like put baked compression into all the vocals that like wouldn't work or whatever. So we redid it all again. Oh my God. But it was for the better because like when we when we hit the final time of redoing it, the way she was singing on the songs was like, oh, this sounds like she's singing a song. She's known her whole life. Yeah. The muscle memory. Sure. Yes. And I was like, OK, this is the best vocal take. Arizona style. Arizona. She's doing the live music. It was like some mini Arizona situation. Yeah. Wow. We recorded all these like shittier versions and then we got like the goaded one. And so did it at home. Took like that took a month or a couple of months and then finished it up. Did the artwork. Is it a conscious choice to abandon the like the short song, basically? It wasn't. Again, it's not like I never think about time. You just think about when the song is done. Song is done is done. And again, it could be 30 seconds. It could be seven minutes. Like it's just like what every song is different. You know. And I think that's how you can tell that you're writing for yourself. Exactly. Because you know when a song is long, when you're like, damn, this song should have been over by now. Yeah. Yeah. Like why is this part coming in? And also, that's when you start thinking like, well, then it can't be a single. And you're worrying about the wrong thing rather than just liking the song. Just yeah. Don't even think about anything. Really? Um, so. Yeah, just kind of turned out that way. And I think again, it is more of like a singular thought concept-ish kind of album. So it's like, I guess it maybe naturally came out that way. Longer songs, maybe more space of like other stuff at the beginning and the end of the ends of the songs too. So are the things you didn't get to achieve or do musically that you're excited to definitely tackle 100% on the on the next one? Yeah. Wow. Okay. Excited. Have you started writing for that? Yeah. Um, we have like, yeah, we will, we made, um, together we wrote, uh, like an EP worth of songs, but we've got more. And so there we'll probably do another album for sure. Love it. Wow. We will do another. Tell me about the, uh, the headliner tour a few months ago and the insane production that went into it. It was, uh, definitely like for, despite all that crazy shit, it was like the smoothest tour we ever did, which is mind blowing. I don't know. I've always wanted to do something like that. And I feel like now I slash we are in a position to do that, which I'm really thankful for. So it was like, fuck it, let's do this. Like let's do something really cool and put on a special show as opposed to just like, you know, playing it safe and like pocketing fucking money. Like who cares? Yeah. You built a lighthouse. No, exact or a windmill. A windmill. Yeah. So, so, um, yeah. Keep that energy from, you know? Yeah. That's how we paid for the electricity. Exactly. Um, it was just like, this could be a really cool thing. And also this doesn't seem like it would be that hard to do or whatever. Like logically it made sense. Um, Jamie Morgan had sent me, so they had this dude doing lights for them named Sam. Sam that, uh, he's, he's been, he's been doing lights for them forever. He sent me a treatment. Um, like while we were recording 2000, he sent me a treatment, um, for like a fleshwater light show that Sam had built. And it was like, these are, you know, my ideas. And I was like, well, this is fucking cool. I've never seen someone do this before. So I kept it in mind and hit them up and he was down to do it. And he was the one that kind of like, I drew like literally a shitty picture of like windmill birds here. This is the band and he made it all. Wow. Like he, he found the people that make the stuff. And, uh, so. And you had just done this deaf times tour. So are you looking at their production the whole time? Just thinking like, how do I, what do I do to do this? I mean, like part of it. Yeah. I mean, anytime you see something super cool, you're like, man, that's so cool. Yeah. Um, that was, we, we all saw nine inch nails on this last tour. It's probably the craziest thing ever. And the last, and we rented our first light package. Yeah. You know what I mean? Exactly. Yeah. And the lights was one thing and then it was like, oh, the windmill would be cool because it's like a tangible thing. And it feels like, you know, practical, practical when you're in this environment, as opposed to like a ton of screens or something, which is cool too. But like, um, and then day one, we were like, we were like, all right, let's do the bandwagon thing because. Merch person, light person, sound guy. Um, and then, uh, although we're like, we could fit everything in that trailer. And then we like, all the lights showed up and we were like, yo, this, we have to rent a fucking truck. Yeah. Like, and we got to get drivers for the truck. Like how's this going to work? This is like two days before the tour started. And so we did two days of rehearsal at the paradise. And like once it was all set up and it was all done in motion, it was like, this is so fucking cool. We're not, we can't half-ass this. Yeah. You can't like, we were like, should we take some stuff away to try and fit it all? And it was like, there's no, you have to do the whole thing. Like this is too bad. Spend the money. Spend the fucking money. Make the experience happen. And, uh, we did it. Luckily we got some truck drivers, um, friends of ours to drive the trucks. Awesome. Not just truck, like a bunch of our friends, thank God helped out. Um, and, uh, it all went off without a hitch. It was really cool. What, what time, what was, what time was loaded for all that? Like 11 a.m. Which is crazy. But it's also cool because then you're just there for the day. Yeah, you do whatever you want. It's definitely, it was cool. It's also like there were so many moving parts to it, um, that sometimes it was hard to settle down. Yeah. And I also personally, I had annoying amp issues on that tour. Or I don't think it was my amp. I think it was the fucking MIDI switcher. Oh really? What brand is it? The, the boss one, but the effects loop was giving me this like stupid noise. I don't do that shit anymore. I don't do the effects loop anymore, but. But it was hard to adjust and step up and coordinating all that. Oh, he stepped up a lot, especially when, uh, when the lights showed up and we didn't have room for all the stuff. He was like, you know, making calls and I mean, he's the best. He handles all the things. How is the flesh water dynamic in 2026? What, like you guys ready to go? It's, it's, it's still full time, full emotion. Okay. Feeling good. Yeah. I think that, uh, especially because this is another thing as like, so it started as a project, you know, and like, as, you know, John's in the band, John's been in the band now. So it's like he now has his like, uh, sort of vibe within it. Like he does, has his nuances and things he likes to do. And he's added his own self to it or whatever. And then like, Hosean's been in the band now for a couple of years. So now it's almost like at this point, it's better than ever because it's been, we've been touring and doing it and it kind of, it kind of hit like this weird reset in 2023. So like now it's at a point where it's like everyone's locked in and it feels like a band, you know, you're the unit unit. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you played Lollapalooza. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. It was crazy. That was like one of the few of those festivals that like, I was like, whoa, everyone here is actually fucking with this and like retaining it in their mind. That was the same year as the Chaperone, like 60,000. Oh, wow. It was that day. You know, sometimes those things, everyone's like, yeah. And it's like, you're even hearing what's happening or like, they're just participating in live and alive and live noise. Yeah. Yeah. But in this case, it was like, oh, wow. Yeah. Like, no, this case was like, these people fuck with this and they love music. And like, this is awesome. And he did the pre show at the Metro with. Definitely. That was like, that's insane. That was a tier, like that was, that was fucked up. We talked to a few people at the Metro for like a spooky haunted thing. And most of them said it was their favorite Metro show of all time. That's true. It was the crit, dude. That was the craziest thing ever. I mean, our set was fine. It was just like, hi, like we're here. Hi, thank you. Like, we're gonna get off now. And then, and then when deftones went on, it was just like, truly once in a lifetime, like seeing them at that venue is like the craziest thing ever. It's awesome. It's a small stage. Awesome. Crazy. You believe in ghosts? Yes. You do. Talk to me. Um, I've never seen one. I've never had, um, like, I've never had an experience worthy enough to really tell a story for it, unfortunately, but I want 100% belief. Well, what makes you 100% belief? Um, weird stuff. Like there were things that like as a child, like as a young child that happened where like I don't remember them, but like my mom would tell me. Um, and then there's been stuff like that. My mom's had experiences. My sister's had a lot of like weird experiences. I just, I, I believe in it. I believe that, uh, you know, there is another plane. And when you do see something, when you let me know and we'll come back. Yeah. Really trying to think. I don't have like, yeah, nothing, nothing's super crazy, but I 100% believe. That's good. And you, Massachusetts. Yeah. If it's going to be one of them, it's going to be there on tape. Yeah. For sure. Let's talk about food, Anthony. Okay. We'll get into the other stuff in a moment, but once years ago, sauce, you promised me. I know your mother's sauce. I think about it all the time. It was like one of my biggest regrets in life. I was like, I wish I got some to him, but I can make it now. You can make your mother's sauce. Yes. You got the recipe. I learned it like a year ago. I remember asking. I was like, fuck, I like got to learn this at some point. Yeah. And I asked her, I was like, how do you do it? She's like, you know, it's all a feel like, I kind of, it's like, be like, how do you write a song? She's like, come on. Um, she's taught me how to do it. And I remember the first time I did it and I tried it because like I cook shit, but like I'll freestyle all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's bad. Sometimes it's whatever. I don't really care half the time. This was like the first time I tried something that I made and I like my knees. I hit the floor. Like I couldn't believe it. I wanted to like scream across. I mean, it had to have been like a nostalgic thing at the same time. It was like in Ratatouille. Yeah. Yeah. Swing the coin. It's Thomas, Everdee, Pay, the lightning. He eats the Ratatouille and like, you know, gets a childhood memory or whatever. So I'll come over and make it for you. Yeah. Or in FedEx, me and Jar. Yeah. Whatever it was. Oh, yeah. Is it one of those simmer all day type sauces? No, it's not one of those. It's like, like 30, 40 minutes. OK. Yeah. No fucking onions. No onions. Don't put that shit in the sauce. No. Really? Hate onions. Put three small onions. I mean, I'm not in the. Me and Mike Sasario, I like what we like. We're like, he's like, oh, I got mine written down. We compared them and I was like, bro, I've made his. It's really good. It's probably fucking incredible. I just hate onions. Really? So even the essence of onion. I hate everything about onions. Interesting. Oh my God. I love. I hate that. I might go. Are you allowed in Italy? Yes. I can make the sauce. I want it. I mean, I won't judge. Do you know where in Italy your family's from? Sicily. Sicily. Yeah. No onions down there, I guess. Yes, no. Also hate chunky tomatoes. Shit's gross. Interesting. Which is yeah. I don't discriminate. But like sauce is great. Ketchup's great. But like a fucking chunky tomato like a like. All right. Oh, when you get fast food. Yeah. And they don't make it plain and you take a bite and get like the hit the landmine like tomato. Yeah, no, it's fat tomato. It's like traumatizing. Yeah, we don't like I fucking hate it. Yeah, we don't fuck with that either. Yeah. No. Tell me about fast food. What's what's flesh water into as a man? I think just like anything, everything like they do seem like that kind of McDonald's. John fucking loves McDonald's. I love McDonald's now. I feel like McDonald's had a huge glow up in the past like five to 10 years. We I mean, so post supersize me. There was a millennial exodus. Yeah. Where it was like we grew up thinking like this is the worst thing you can do. And you know, maybe it is still it's made in a lab. It's like scientifically engineered to be the best thing you've ever had so that you become addicted to it. And then everybody realized Morgan Sproul was full of shit. And everybody got back to the whole whole my home. I'm like, doll's ruined my liver. I'll never forget. There's the one the part where he eats something in the morning and he throws up. Yeah. And he was just hung on. He did die. It's fucked up. He did die. Dad, like a year ago. It's very recently because I put it on recently and I looked it up and I was like, holy shit, he died. Yeah. So the supersize. Yeah. Come on back now. So but what's so what's your number one? Um, out of like. Anywhere in the country out of like, where are you most excited to stop? I'm trying to think. But think about you have all the time in the world. They're all there right in front of you. Now, which one are you like like if McDonald's is there is raising canes also. Yes. Yes. All of them. Um, you change. Dude, it's actually hard for me to pick an answer. And I think it's because I like to cycle them all. Yeah. Because like if you do one thing, you don't want it again. You don't want it again. And we were talking about this the other day about like Chipotle. Sometimes Chipotle is like hits so fucking hard. And sometimes it's like the worst shit. You never want to eat it again. I eat it every day. So it's like, yeah. Like so sometimes, sometimes I go out of my way to get it because I want it. Yeah. And so sometimes I want Taco Bell. Sometimes I want McDonald's. You know, what's up right now? What would you like McDonald's? Like, I think there's a McDonald's near my apartment. So like I'll usually like in there 24 seven. So it's like, dude, I got one of those. You know, driving home late from from whatever. It's like, I'll stop there. And I think McDonald's at this point, I felt like their quality wasn't that good. I think now they're number one. Like like in terms of quality, like consistency, consistency, well, why in many looks better now. Yeah, like it all looks better. And I'll just get a little McFlurry, you know, I'll tell you this about a two or two a.m. McDonald's run to if you get like nuggets, they're. Yeah, yeah, they have to be there screaming. They're amazing. They ain't just sitting there. I always love the vanilla cone. Oh, dude, they don't dip anymore. Oh, I just get a plane. I did that seals. Did they do? Oh, they did. I don't I never got it that way. Oh, but I'd get a Sunday. But now I'm McFlurry ad hot fudge. Oh, OK. Smart. I love the quarter extra quarter pounder with cheese, plain from your QPC. The QPC is is like superior to the regular. It's fresh patties. And I love the McDouble, but yeah, the there's also that buy one, get one for a dollar deal. Yeah, we don't have that in Chicago. So I'll do two. That's two six piece nuggets. Jesus, I'll run it twice. Great order. The McDouble used to be when it was like a dollar seven. It used to be the best best deal in food, the best deal in food per ounce of protein. Yeah. That's another thing about Taco Bell was it was the cheapest for a long time. And now it's kind of now it's it's 30 dollars. Everywhere you go for anything. There was a while where that was number one. I lived off of it. And yes, I think everybody fucking yeah, especially if anyone was like vegetarian vegan, which there were a couple of people at the time. And so we'd always go to Taco Bell. I remember hitting points where I was like, I literally can't eat this anymore. My body won't let me know. And so I like it all. It's so hard for me to pick. If I'm gonna head, I'm just going to pick Dunkin Donuts. Oh, I mean, I like listen, America runs on you. You're saying like, you got to go to one place on tour. You just woke up. I'm going to Dunkin Donuts. Absolutely. We literally there's one across the street from my apartment. We start if we don't go to one of the fancy ones or for head and out or something. It's always done. I love like, dude, I make, you know, coffee at home. Like I love a cup of like strong, whatever, like the fanciest fart smelling coffee. Yeah, yeah. Pretentious, whatever. Dunkin's for gamblers. I will still drink Dunkin all day. I love it. It's a work and you got to order it right. You have minus tough because mine doesn't have a drive through. And it's there's a little bit of there's a little bit of New England in mind where that it's only mutants inside. Oh, OK. Like as as somebody who's from New England, if you go into the Dunkin a lot of the time, it's rough, you know, the regulars are in there. The KC Affleck sketch is very real. That's like the one across the street from me. Yeah. Yeah. The townies, the Dunkin's. They're all there. Yeah. So I don't if I'm if I had a drive through, I'd be there every time. I'm scary. There's some I don't go in. You know, like there's like one near me where I'm like, I've never been in that. There's Dunkin's with bulletproof. We're going in there. Yeah. You know, there's like three within a five minute radius of me. And that's just some of them are good. Some of them are bad. Yeah. The good Dunkin. I have like one that I'm fully loyal to. They know you. Good for you. No, but I just you don't want to know you. That's a dark only go to that one. The usual. How you doing, migrant? You don't have an accent. What's up with that? He said one word earlier and I heard sometimes people say that it comes out at certain times, but I just think you're so laid back that it doesn't matter. Could you tell me as our final question here, Anthony, your four favorite hardcore records of all time? So I will pick Converge when Forever Comes Crashing. Great. I will pick Hey, Preet, Perseverance. Great. American Nightmare background music and The Carrier one year later. Wow. New England. Yeah. Yeah, that's those are the four most important to me for sure. Good answers. One stroke. Instant off the rim. Yeah. Yeah. We it's like it's like you were prepared. It's almost like you prepared for that. It's crazy. Anthony, we can't thank you enough for joining us today. Thank you for having me. The flesh water has been has been on our bands to watch lists many times now. You don't need to hear it from us. They're they're crushing it. We support you 100 percent. We're so proud of you. It's so excited to watch where you go from here. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Love you guys. Any closing words for the kids out there? No. Nice. Perfect. Excellent. Too much of a question. OK. Bye. This episode is brought to you by Mad Vintage.