Episode 498: Royal Rumble 2001

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SaveWithConrad.com or send me an email Conrad at SaveWithConrad.com Welcome to Something to Rappen with It's Rappen with Well you know That's not a Rappen with me There's no box of gimmicks Rumor and innuendo I don't deal in rumor and innuendo Was he there? I was there I don't give a shit. Just something to wrestle with. Something to wrestle with. Something to wrestle with. Bruce Pritchard. Hey, it's Conrad, the Mortgage Guy, and you're listening to Something to Wrestle With. Bruce Pritchard. Bruce, what's going on, man? How are you? That's me. I'm wonderful. Well, we are excited to be with you. We've had a lot of fun this month talking about Royal Rumble memories. We've already knocked out 1991 and 1996. It's hard to believe, but we never covered 2001. So our topic today is Royal Rumble 2001. This feels like a long time ago, but like 10 years ago at the same time. Can you believe it's been 25 years? A little hard to believe, a little hard to believe, you know, that we hadn't covered it yet. I understand. I understand. My fault. But, you know, things happen sometimes. And it was a tumultuous year in the wrestling world, if you will, and in the world of sports and entertainment just generally. Yeah, let's talk about sort of what's going on as we enter the year 2001. As we're closing the year 2000, it looks like WCW is going to be sold and Eric Bischoff's group is going to take over the reins of WCW. We're hearing that it's headed in that direction, but we don't have any firm details. And boy, ECW is in tough shape. They're way behind on payroll. And I think it's even written in the Observer that Heyman said something like, he doesn't fear the future, but the present is really scary. Meltzer would say ECW is exactly one great television deal. if the deal provides for production costs and enough revenue to sustain an organization and, for that matter, create an organization away from stability. So Meltzer and everyone knows the end is near for Paul Heyman and ECW. Now, we wouldn't actually see Paul debut on WWF programming until early March of 2001. Did you, in December of 2000, feel it was inevitable that Paul Heyman would come work with you in WWE? Yeah, it was already in the works for Paul to come in and be a part of the creative team and what have you. Not necessarily as a talent, but that eventually would happen. But Paul's services or his creative mind, that was already in the works. Wow, I don't think most of us ECW fans knew that. So even before ECW... Paul, he had already checked out on ECW long before that. In December of 2000, he was already mentally moving on. He was done. He was. I think that he was just going to ride that thing till the wheels fell off. And, look, you know, truth be told, as Heyman has said many times, Heyman didn't even turn the lights out there. It was Tommy Dreamer who did. That's exactly right, yeah. And, you know, Paul had pretty much checked out. It was not it. it was not me yes so well that's news to me that he was already thinking about hey what is life after ECW yeah he was already there man he was already in it so yeah if you could go back and I realize I'm having a big ask asking you to do something from 25 years ago but in December of 2000 were you able to think that hey WCW really is going out of business? Or did you assume that Bischoff and his group or whatever it is would keep that thing going in some way, shape, or form? I thought that, you know, look, there was enough buzz, and we were involved in several negotiations with the folks at Time Warner over the sale of WCW, and we were interested, but we weren't interested in WCW. We were interested in the time slot on TNT. We were interested in the library. But we weren't necessarily interested in, and we really hadn't even seen it yet. But the price tag that they were putting on all of that for the high-priced contracts that they had made, we weren't interested in any of that. So it was like, okay, you know, but we would love to have those time slots. We would love to have a second brand and to be able to capitalize on the brand, WCW. But the, you know, people always never understood. Well, you buy WCW, you're buying Hulk Hogan's contract. You're buying Kevin Nash's contract and Scott Hall and Sting and Goldberg and all these guys. That might have been what Bischoff and Fugit wanted. That wasn't what we wanted. We wanted the brand. and we wanted the time slot, and we wanted the library. Those were the key things. And then we would deal with talent after the fact. But it was negotiated from a great point that I use in everyday life, in that you never go into a negotiation that you're not willing to walk away from. don't like if you you love a house and you're willing to do anything for that house that's a bad position to be in it's a bad place to come from where you can go into that negotiation and say ah if i get it great i really want it but if i don't fine i'm moving on and and be okay with that so always always come from a position of being able to walk away and that was where we were, you know, through every bit of any negotiation that we did with Time Warner in regard to WCW. Do you think, I know that was Vince's attitude at the time. I mean, Vince was certainly making those decisions. Do you think that if Vince was not running WWE, and perhaps it is the corporate structure that exists now, would they have viewed the WCW opportunity similarly? Or do you think there would have been an appetite for owning that, quote-unquote, IP more so than just the library and the archives? Well, that's, I mean, yeah, but they would have wanted it the same way we did. I don't think that they would have gone into it blindly and got into the bad deals that they had made with talent. Those were exorbitant. and I don't think that anybody really could have supported that. So I think that a good business person would look at it and say, okay, yes, I want these assets, but I don't want this debt. So, yeah, I don't think that – I think Eric had rose-colored glasses on at the time and really, really wanted to get that and wanted to get in and improve himself and prove that, you know, he could do it again with that particular brand. But it just wasn't, man. I think it was just too far gone. They were just too far in the hole. To buy their debt was just wasn't worth it. I do want to ask, you know, we know that that's the way WWE saw things and certainly Vince McMahon saw things, but you yourself, although at this point you kind of are a WWE lifer, but you didn't start there. You started sort of outside the tent. So if you were able to, you know, think about the business as a whole from an outside the WWE perspective, did you think that that would be considered a net positive or a net negative that these two other organizations may close? I mean, on the one hand, I get business-wise, it feels like, hey, this is great for us. We're the only game in town now. But was that really a net positive? Did you think for the business or the industry that you dedicated your life to? Well, it was trying to create our own competition. And the original idea behind it and going into it was to create our own competition, was to have two separate IPs and run separately with separate heads and separate everything. Well, now I'm not talking about when you acquired it. I'm talking about. Well, that was the idea to acquire it, though. But did you have that idea, do you think, in December of 2000? I guess I'm asking Bruce Pritchard the person, not the corporate spokesperson. I'm not a corporate spokesperson, first of all. I'm not saying you are. No, you're saying you don't want to hear from the corporate spokesperson as if I just gave you a corporate spokesperson. I'm giving you what I think. And I think that from many of you, the idea to create your own competition and to be able to have two separate companies was a good idea. And I don't know that, I guess I don't understand the question. Well, we're not talking about the acquisition, Bud. We're talking about WCW perhaps going out of business. That's what we were thinking. But at that point, it wasn't that they were going out of business. They were up for sale. You know what I mean? So nobody was looking at that as, hey, this is WCW going out of business. This was just WCW up for sale. You know what I mean? It wasn't at this point in time, they weren't as desperate to say, we're going out of business. They were saying, we're up for sale. Time Warner wants to get rid of this. but nobody thought that it was going out of business at that point everybody thought ecw was going out of business oh ecw is definitely going out of business so my point was it feels like the game is shrinking you know you had been a part of this industry when it was booming and when it was getting smaller and so now when you when it feels like hey not one but two other companies and i know you didn't think of ecw in high regard and i get that but if those other two brands are you know no longer it does feel like it creates a unique dynamic in the wrestling world that had maybe never existed before and and and certainly the reason that wwe was once upon a time on their heels was because they had all of that corporate money behind turner going head and and with that absence of that capital it does feel like there's a giant question mark looming over, hey, what is the future of the industry in early 2001? Before March, I'm saying late December 2000, January 01. Well, I think that the feeling was, from the AOL Time Warner perspective, that it was losing money and they didn't like wrestling. so they didn't want they didn't want it they AOL Time Warner didn't particularly want that albatross so they figured they could get rid of that expense and they could get rid of that IP and simply keep a form of programming and again this was early on they completely changed their tune right as it got closer to it But, you know, for Fuchsia and those guys, they were, everybody that went into this was going into it with the assumption and with the plan to be, hey, I've got a slot on TNT on a Thursday and a Monday night. So those were coveted time slots that Fuchsia wanted. Anybody that was looking at that, that was what they were interested in. and to take the IP and a brand that was recognized and had been a success at one time, to be able to rebrand it and move on. But I don't think, you know, at that point, nobody, at least to my knowledge, was saying WCW is going out of business. we knew just because we knew and from Heyman ECW was that wasn't going to continue yeah well it's interesting to think about the changes that are going to come towards the industry in 2001 because it feels like the guys and gals who work in front of the camera or behind the camera in the absence of competition they lose all leverage do they not what do you mean well i mean sometimes people get contracts because hey they'd like to have them and they really don't want to play against them versus hey if you don't want to play for wwe maybe you know the factory down the road's hiring i mean there's there's really no other way to make money in pro wrestling outside of wwe come april 01 right i there was you had to work at it. But yes, there was. Yes, it was removing the second biggest company. But I think inevitably, as we know now, with hindsight, that was going to happen anyway. I think they were going to go away if we didn't come in and buy it at the time with the cash flow and the cash influx that we gave them. Hey, man, is it just me or did everywhere you look the last few years, you saw someone using one of those nicotine pouches. I've got to admit, I started to actually feel like I was being left out, but I've never been a nicotine user, and I was nervous about using nicotine. But then I found out that ultra patches are a thing. They're completely nicotine-free. They're caffeine-free, but they're packed with nootropics that are designed for mental clarity and enhanced focus. Sign me up. You'll get the same kick as a nicotine pouch, but without the side effects. There's no buzz, there's no addiction, there's no crash, no jitters, no gum rot, and most pouches actually elevate cortisol. 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He said he's been offered a job, which Meltzer admits he's skeptical of because there is a non-compete. But it is at least fun to think about. I know a lot of old school fans like myself love the idea of thinking, hey, what about the great Muda in the WWE? Was it ever close to happening in early 2001 or at any point as far as you know, Bruce? There were discussions. I mean, there were definitely discussions. But I think that, first of all, one of the, you know, stumbling blocks was, you know, Muda couldn't cut a promo. He needed a manager. And he needed someone to kind of handle him and travel with him and help him along the way. I think Muda was an extraordinary talent. I thought he was absolutely amazing back in the day. And I remember going to a house show in New Haven, Connecticut. and it was WCW house show and Pat and I went down to say hello to folks and Muda was there and I walked up to Muda. Muda was running the steps in the back and he had stopped and he was he was resting and he was uh he was just standing catching his breath and uh walked up and just introduce myself and as soon as as soon as i got close to him gary hart came running i mean immediately saw me talking to him and he saw pat walking towards him to come over and say hello and gary was was on top of him so muda was look muda was very very protected i think that at that time probably the best chance of getting him where we would have wanted him because I think he still had a few years left in the tank. But New Japan, I truly believe that New Japan was kind of, and the folks in Japan in general were putting all of this out there to make him more valuable at home. So he's an incredible talent. Yeah, we were talking to him during this time. Let's talk a little bit about Monday Night Raw in 2001. You guys did a show about a week before Christmas in Greenville, South Carolina. And this is where Vince does a long 25-minute monologue. And we're getting knee-deep into the family saga, if you will. And this is where we start to become introduced to the, I guess we'll call it the catatonic Linda McMahon story. Where does that come from? Whose idea is that? I mean, I know we've had fun with it on the show in the past, but it is an unbelievable pop, you know, months down the road when she just stands up from the wheelchair. But who had that idea originally? It feels like it's right out of a soap opera. Yeah, I mean, it is. And look, a lot of it comes from Vince's head. And then a lot of it, then you have a germ of an idea, and then everybody starts just jumping in. And soap opera, just one-on-one. Absolutely 100%. We've talked about Michael Hayes. I've got to see days of my life. Well, Michael, look in the mirror. But no, days of our lives. Man, we do soap opera. That's what it is. And this was an opportunity. I think one of my biggest mantras, I won't say what it is. But look, if people are not in relationships and people who have never been in relationships shouldn't write relationship stories. But. Man, everybody can relate to that, whether it's a relationship with your significant other, whether it is relationship with your children, whether it's a relationship with your mom and dad, whether it's a relationship with your siblings or friends in general, it's relationships. and for an intimate relationship, you need to see it. Like, you need to see it. And there were just so many triggers. It's like, oh, my God, what if, you know, what would you do if this happened? And, oh, my God, what if this happened? And we went completely to the absurd. I mean, as far as you could go. And frankly, we were all watching soap operas at the time to get ideas, to just look at the ludicrously that is out there that has a big audience, that if we go there and we paint this horrible, just devious villain in events, and you're telling the story, people go, oh, my God, is that real life? And is, wait a minute, those are his children. That is his wife. And you take it. as far as you can to the absurd, then they've got people talking. What was your go-to soap opera back in the day, Bruce? Oh, God. Days of Our Lives was one. General Hospital was another. I'm trying to think of the one that I watch. Oh, God. I always thought you were a young and a restless guy. What's that? I always thought you were a young and a restless guy. That may be it, but it's one that my wife watches all the time. So I will sit in and just – I thought he was – it's the guy with the eyepatch. Then it was Luke. And now they've got the guy with the eyepatch and stuff. So, yeah. Days of Our Lives is the guy with an eyepatch. Okay, Days of Our Lives. And that's the one that I guess she's watching now. But then Luke may be the same thing. But I used to like to, my mom loved General Hospital. So General Hospital turned into ER and all that other crap and things like that. But they weren't as ludicrous as the soap operas. But it's good stuff, man. It's like, what the hell? How can you, I mean, are you really going to take me here? Is this what we're doing now? Didn't they have like, wasn't there one a few years back? I'm like, gosh, it may have been close to 20 years ago, but there was one. Maybe it was called Passions or something. Yeah. It was so absurd. They had, like, sharks with guns or something. They had what? The sharks could shoot guns or something silly like that. Well, yeah. Oh, you just said, oh, yeah. Well, you ain't never seen a shark with a gun? Not yet. They're good shots because they got them black eyes. They have nothing to reflect the light because the black eyes absorb the light, and then they use that to hone in on their targets. If you see a shark with a gun on Netflix on WWE Raw soon, I'm sorry, Internet, in advance. You say it like it's something ridiculous. Well, let's talk about the button hook on that story, the Catatonic Linda episode here, where there's a big switch that happens a week before Christmas. You know, we're supposed to have Kurt Angle versus Vince McMahon, but what do you know? Angle and Vince turn on the commissioner, Mick Foley. They do a number on him. Edge and Christian come out. They do a concerto on Foley. Stephanie is going to side with Vince, saying the board of directors has given her total power now. Linda is unfit to be CEO. Why was Mick written off of TV and dropped as commissioner here? Had it just run its course by early 2001? Pretty much, but also you've got to remember, Mick had just come back for a period of time, too, in that point. Mick's going to retire, be the only guy to retire and stay retired, and then came back 42 times. And Mick would, okay, I'm only coming back for this amount of time. So that's the business. I'm done. I'm leaving. Okay, I'll come back for one. Okay, I'll come back for one. I'm done. Never. Say never. Okay, I'll come back. So. Hey, he's a Terry Falk fan. He can't help it. It's the business. It's like, you know, retiring in this business is akin, I think, to disowning your family and just walking away from your family. That's a difficult thing to do. and it's just it's not it that cut and dry or okay by God I done with you people Or I going to go over here and do this It sounds good I like to try it one day But I don't know. Every time I talk about that, I don't know what I'd do. So it's, I know I'd have to do something. I got to be doing something. And so, you know, yeah, he would have time. And, you know, especially during Christmas, Mick liked to be off during Christmas. Let's talk about another storyline that I think sort of came out of nowhere. This episode of Raw had Lita modeling lingerie in the WWF New York. Dean Malenko is going to be seen at a monitor drooling. That sort of feels out of left field from old school Dean Malenko that I grew up on. How does Dean Malenko become this James Bond-inspired ladies' man who's obsessed with Lita? Good God, look at him. Dean's a good-looking guy. No doubt. Dean's got a personality just un... I mean, Dean Malenko is one of the funniest, dry-witted guys you'll ever see. But he played the character on television of the man of a thousand holds and just this stone-faced guy that was nothing like the human being, nothing like him. Now, if you take the guy that can torture you in the ring and knows a thousand holes and is as great of a worker as Dean was, and you give him a personality, and you give him something to sink his teeth into and to show that, my God, this guy's funny, this guy's witty, gives you an opportunity. I think it opens it up to more people that can start to gravitate toward him. And being a ladies' man and then being a ladies' man where women fawn all over him, and then he is infatuated with one. That was the idea behind it, just to see how this one who was his fascination, infatuation, doesn't, you know, she's, no, I don't want you. But others do, you know, and so it was kind of a fun deal. And just it was an attempt to get Dean out of the I am a man of 1,000 holds. I am Dean Malenko. And with Bell Ring, man, he owned him. But everything in between, just looking for more personality out of him because he had it. 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Perfect if your New Year's goals include better habits that you're actually going to stick to. And honestly, it tastes amazing. There's 16 original flavors and 8 zero-sugar options that fit seamlessly into your routine, your morning, your post-workout, your midday slump. And can I recommend watermelon? And hey, let's make it easy. Drip Drop has flexible subscription options, so you're never stuck without proven fast hydration. Whether you're hitting the gym, juggling work, or just trying to stay consistent with your January reset, right now Drip Drop is offering our podcast listeners 20% off your first order. Just go to DripDrop.com and use the promo code WRESTLE. That's DripDrop.com, promo code WRESTLE for 20% off. Stock up now at DripDrop.com and use the promo code WRESTLE. WWE back then was looking for real estate. There's a report here from late 2000 that says the WWF is looking at either building a new and larger office building or buying an existing larger building because it has more employees than Titan Towers has space. They also want to move the TV studio to the same grounds as the business office as they are currently about a mile away. They're looking at keeping the headquarters in the Stanford area because all the employees live in the area. I mean, you guys were looking at this in December of 2000, and it takes like 20-something years, right? yeah I believe I said the other day a couple weeks ago or a week ago that you know Vince wasn't in the now he was in the later and to be honest to be honest be quite honest yeah I hope you're always honest we were I think the goal the quest the ultimate thing was always to have us all under one roof going all the way back to before we got the Titan Tower building at 1241 Main was, you know, to have a complex and like a college complex, the IBM deal out off of Long Ridge. And there was, there was that thought. And I don't think that that ever Titan Tower, We grew out of Titan Tower as soon as moved into it because we still had the studio. Titan Tower could never. It would have taken the entire thing just to house the studio and the people in it and then to bring all that stuff in. So, yeah, there was always that was always the case, I think. I think right now, I think we're going to be good for a few years. I think we've still got a floor or two that we can expand into. So, you know, right now we've got a place where we can grow into it and still be under the same roof. Let's talk about the Las Vegas property. We haven't talked about this in a long time, but the Observer wrote, the WWF has officially sold its Las Vegas property, the former Debbie Reynolds Hotel, for $11.2 million. The original plan was to make it a WWF-themed hotel, including putting a television studio and small arena in the hotel. They quickly realized it was a bad bet, dropped plans for opening the place, and put it for sale. And this is interesting because, you know, this is sort of pre-October 99 IPO, and we know that we get a bunch of cash infusion as a result of that. But even though Vince is moving on from the Las Vegas idea, He's going to try other things like the XFL. Why did he ultimately decide, I don't think Vegas works for WWE? I think it was a combination of a lot of things. It was getting everything that we needed to do. The renovations and the cost of renovations in Vegas were astronomical. And especially when you look at it with the vision that we had for it. I mean, the plans, the layout, Hard Rock had the giant guitar. We wanted the building to basically have the logo in it. So the building was made out of the logo. It was, and the only, look, the only way to do it was to, as they do with all the casinos in Vegas is they just demolish them, man. They just tear them to the ground, move and build new from the ground up. And that's what we would have had to do. And it would have taken four or five years probably to get to the point that you could even be where you wanted to be. And even then, it's like you look at places in Vegas, there are mega casinos. Some of the newest casinos there are losing. Now, imagine losing $400 million a day. I don't know how that's fathomable, but they do. And somehow they stay in business, and somehow they continue to go on, And somehow they'll probably sell to somebody else and they'll buy it and continue on with that loss. It's just a heavy burden. But I remember sitting in on so many of those meetings and all the ideas, but it was an idea for the hotel to have retired wrestlers to be greeters at the casino. and we were going to do shows every night, live wrestling every night at the WWE casino. And it was a grandiose plan, but it just wasn't. I think that Vince looked at it and said, by the time we sink all this money into it to be able to get our money back, It's not the same kind of return as fast as he was used to and didn't want to invest all that. And I think it was a great publicity stunt. It was a great – got people talking for a while. But if you ever visited that Debbie Reynolds Hotel and Casino, it was kind of like the Cecil Hotel in Los Angeles. Yeah, a little kabuki-ish. Very kabuki-ish. It was supposed to be a 35-story building. That's what WWE envisioned with a wrestling-themed hotel and casino and 1,000 rooms. And I guess the company even stripped the property, a lot of the interior, preparing it for demolition before deciding, as you would say, not it. So in 1998, they spent $10.65 million on it. Here in 2000, they're going to sell it to a Chicago-based investment group for $11.2 million. And they sort of rebranded it as the Greek Isles. And it was that for a handful of years. And then in 2007, it sold again. And in 2010, until they closed the thing, it was the Clarion Hotel. So if you ever stayed at the Greek Isles or the Clarion, you were staying at what could have been the WWE Hotel. And as Bruce said, I don't think it was probably a five-star resort when it went down. Yeah. Yeah, it was about there in like one of them half-star resorts. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Even in the Tokyo Dome, it would have maybe only made it to three-quarters of a star. But it was not a – it was just run down as hell. It was old. It was just not – it was not taken care of. and look, even the I think now probably the location would have been okay but then the location is off the strip. It was I don't know. I just will never forget a phone call if I go Hey pal, I'm in Vegas. What are you doing in Vegas? Bought a casino. Why? Why? we're going to have a hotel and a casino. It's going to be great. Can't wait for you to see it. Then we went. It was like, this is a shithole. Yeah. I just will never, I will never forget. I'll never forget that phone call, man. It's hilarious. I was at 73 Oakwood Drive in Monroe, Connecticut when I got that call. it feels like it's inevitable that maybe I'm wrong but with TKO being in the wrestling business and the boxing business and the UFC business and Dana White and his history in Las Vegas it feels like it's a given that at some point there might be a TKO hotel or casino or arena or attraction would you rule that out? do you think that there's any interest in that in the future at any point? I ruled nothing out Yeah. I ruled nothing out. You know, the sky's the limit. And if there's an opportunity to do something like that, I think that that would definitely be something that people would jump on. But never say never. Everything's a possibility. Anything can happen in the World Wrestling Federation, pal. Yes, it can. Let's talk about something that happened that I'll admit shocked the shit out of me. the China issue of the Playboy magazine sold over a million copies Sable when she was on top of her game and WWE stardom her issue sold 800,000 I kind of in my mind think that the business was in a similar place for both of those issues maybe I'm wrong but it shocks me that China outsold Sable do you think that wrestling was bigger that China was a bigger star? Was there a curiosity? Why would you... How can we reconcile China outsold Sable knowing the way the merch was moving for Sable once upon a time? That's a head-scratcher to me. So let's say you, Bruce, why do you think China's Playboys sold more than Sable's? I think the business was hotter at the time, and China was... Look, man, you know what I'm saying? China was a mega-huge star. And so... People were interested. They were interested, obviously. So it was a time that the business was red hot. China was red hot. And, yeah, it was obviously a lot of interest, and people wanted to see the ninth wonder of the world, by God, naked. Hey, good for her. You know, she's an unconventional cover model for Playboy. But to sell a million copies, man, that's not easy. Good for her. Yeah. it's crazy hey so let's talk uh let's talk a little about about the uh the way the wcw deal progresses by early january we're we're finding out that there is a drop dead date to sell wcw apparently brad siegel has strict orders that if the company's not sold by march 30th is to shut it down completely when that report comes out i mean you just wonder how does a major corporation let that information out it feels like it eliminates any and all leverage because now it's like hey they gotta take whatever we offer it's a fire sale now right well yeah i mean when they did that at the same time they're they're negotiating like i said you know i think i think fusion was in in the hunt or at least they thought they were in the hunt right right It went up until the moment we bought it. And I think that it was, you know, kind of a, I would dare say, again, I wasn't involved. I was involved at arm's length with Stu Snyder and Vince and all that. And I don't even think Vince was that involved in it. He was probably arm's length. All right, Stu, no, go get the IP. Now, when it got down to the point of, you know, they're going tits up, all right, when it got to that point, because previously it hadn't been. It was just like, hey, it's up for sale. We want to sell this. Now, you can come to your own conclusions as to why they want to sell and everything else, because obviously they were not profitable. But getting into it, I think that there were different deals on the table for different people that were looking to buy it. Because, obviously, from Eric's point of view, I think that they were under the assumption that they were getting the whole kit and caboodle. And from our vantage point, we didn't want the whole kit and caboodle. We weren't interested in it. And we wanted that TV time slot. And we wanted their library. We wanted the IP. And we were good at that point. so everything else would sort itself out but didn't want to negotiate for all that other crap and so I think depending upon the bidder is kind of how they were positioning it so we put bids in and they didn't accept them and move on you guys are now out of it we went okay what's that? I want to ask you about something we've never talked about before because Vince McMahon was doing interviews in early 2001 in advance of WCW going out of business. Well, let me just read you what Dave wrote. Vince was quoted in a Bloomberg News story about the attempted WCW purchase, saying that he was going to keep WCW as a separate brand and build to expand pay-per-view business by using interpromotional matches. McMahon said there were a lot of good reasons to buy WCW, WCW, but said Viacom standing in the way of the deal made it financially impractical. Now, this is something that you and I have never talked about before, but I guess there was even an XFL media event where Wade Keller asked Vince about this, and he said that he's willing to come to some sort of an agreement with Viacom to buy out their exclusivity for WWF programming in order to keep the WCW shows on TBS but Viacom changed the deal to where it no longer made fiscal sense. So let me just sort of reset all of that so everybody can follow along. The WWE had left USA to come to TNN. And when they go to TNN, TNN was hosting ECW programming. It gets pushed down. It's no longer priority. ECW is going to lose their national television because the WWE just drank their milkshake. So at that point, Vince has a brand new deal with ECW, its old home, TNN, and it's a brand new deal with Viacom. And as part of that, they are the exclusive home of WWE programming. So if Vince goes and buys WCW, well, he would have to technically, by the terms of his contract with Viacom, air that on TNN. But in fact, Vince liked the idea. Hey, let's just keep it going on TBS and TNT. And, well, Viacom said, hey, we'll agree to a buyout. And then I guess they changed the number. But if that would have happened, Viacom, I think, never gets any discussion about this. The reason WCW didn't continue on TBS and TNT, people usually say, well, it's because they weren't interested in having the programming on it. anymore. That is what they told Fusion Media, that wrestling was not going to be on their network. But you would think maybe with Vince McMahon, maybe that changes things. But Viacom threw the kibosh down. What do you remember of this Viacom recall that we've never discussed? Yeah, there was pushback from Viacom because Viacom thought they had the exclusivity. The idea, and they did for WWE programming. And again, it's like, you know, again, it's what you said or Dave said or whoever, how you said it, was that WWE went in and drank their milkshake. No, TNN came to us with bidding and outbid everybody else. They didn't want any more ECW programming. They wanted wrestling, but they wanted us, and they paid us more money than USA Network. So then when you get that, and they thought, and they did, they had exclusivity for WWE programming. The caveat here is it was going to be WCW programming. That was the idea that, okay, well, it's not WWE programming. It's WCW programming. Yes, the company owns it, but it's a separate IP. And I think there was a legal quandary there. But in the end, because when we pulled, you know, just the inkling of that and then coming back, go, okay, shit, how do we pull this off? And I will bet, and I wasn't privy to those conversations per se, but I'm sure that part of the caveat of being the only time that it was simulcast on TNT and TNN at the same time, that we were able to do the cut-ins and everything, was that, okay, by God, everything's coming here after the fact to Viacom. And, you know, that was, I'm assuming, I don't know, I'm assuming that that was the compromise. But once we found out, again, because Stu had the inside track, was it TBS, TNT, Time Warner, they didn't want wrestling anymore. so they weren't interested in having wrestling on their program. They didn't want that programming on their network. So when that came off the table from them, like, well, this solves our problem, but, you know, I don't know that Viacom knew that and probably was presented as, hey, you could be the big winner here. We could do this one simulcast and trying to get everybody to agree to that. And again, that goes to the relationships that Stu Snyder had. Say that 10 times fast. That was able to get everybody to agree to play nice for a night. And that we're only going to do this one time. And this is just to show that you guys are the winners and all this other stuff. But there wasn't any interest on the Time Warner side. At least what we were receiving. And that was, you know, getting it from Stu, who had worked there, had friends there, and it was, okay, then we want the library, we want the IP, and we took some other assets, took some rings and other stuff, but didn't want the contracts and obviously didn't get the television deal in that, which then brought the price way down. So when people talk about, well, Eric's price was way up here and your price was here, why didn't they do it? Because Eric's price included TV. Yeah. That was very valuable. With ours, when we knew that TV was out of the equation. Right. Like, well, no, here's the price. And it was cash price and they jumped at it. I don't know because it was I don't know if the folks at Time Warner were dealing in good faith with Fusion and completely being transparent with them with everything that they were doing and why the why's and why not I don't know I really don't know but we were out of it we were out of it until roughly whatever it was two weeks before Wrestlemania It was, you know, we, that was, that was, we stopped thinking about it. It was like we quit having meetings, came in and says, deal's done, not doing it, move on. And then, okay, guys, I think a couple of us got called in first. Okay, we were like, we're going to buy it. deal will happen whenever the hell is going to happen. We got to figure out what we're going to do. And then we announced, okay, we're going to do it. Then a few people on our end started working. We're working with Lauren Itis to do that show for WrestleMania simulcast. It was crazy. It was a crazy time. But, yeah, look, BICOM, they weren't real happy about it. in the beginning. They weren't happy about the sniffing around because TNT was definitely a stronger station than TNN. And I think, oh, God, they're going to move all their shit over there, and we're going to get the WCW stuff. And that was never the intent. Hey, listen, man, if you're managing a crew, I'm talking construction, HVAC, landscapers whatever you already know when your guys go to pay for gas and materials buddy it causes all types of issues cards get borrowed trucks fuel up when they're parked in the yard and your accountant is chasing you for receipts at the end of every month well coast pay fixes all of that coast pay is the modern fuel card and expense management tool built for fleets this isn't software built by someone who's never run a crew. Fuel, maintenance, materials, they're now all on one card with real control and instant visibility. Set real-time spending limits for every driver or vehicle. 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And right now, Coast Pay is offering our listeners free gas for a day when you get started at coastpay.com slash wrestle. Go right now to coastpay.com slash wrestle to get free gas for a whole day. terms apply that's coastpay.com slash wrestle the coast visa commercial credit card is issued by celtic bank all card accounts subject to credit approval interesting let's talk about uh the writers at the time uh the torch would say former wwf writer chris kreski who was known for his elaborate storylines and he was posted to keep track of All the ongoing storylines left the WWF because the schedule was too demanding. Quote, unquote, he cracked, says one WWF worker. He wanted a life. Vince demands so much from his inner circle. The same 24-7 he dedicates to his work he expects of others. Chat me up about that. We haven't spent a lot of time talking about Kresge. Was it just too much for him? What were his strengths? What were his weaknesses? Why wasn't he with the company longer? Awesome guy. Absolutely awesome guy. and he was my writing partner to and from the plane because we both lived up in Monroe, Connecticut and he was a family man he wanted to spend time with his family he had a young family and it was look it wasn for him it wasn for him Chris was used to sitcoms and just different formatted television Right. Where you could plan, and that's why I always love to listen to people who come in and pitch. What you need to do is you need to lay everything out. You need to have everything put out for six months, and then you have these cards, and they're all up on a board and you put them all up and then they just move along. And we don't know where the story is at all times. Okay. What happens if he tears his rotator cuff and goes out and he's out for six months? Crickets. Okay, what happens if we do that and the audience shits all over it? crickets. You have to have flexibility. You have to be able to pivot on the head of a needle. It's like you can have, and you should have, and we do have ideas out six months. But, I mean, at any given time, I can get a text or a phone call and everything changes. It happens during the show sometimes. It does. And it's dominoes. Yeah. And they just start to fall. So when those things happen, when something doesn't go as you envision, and boom, and then this happens and the crowd goes mild. It's what do we do now? We had this planned and we had this. And so it was just a different animal. It's a completely different animal. And Chris was used to being able to be home at night with his family and not be on the road all the time. And this required being on the road two days a week. Someone who's not used to that, for someone who is a family person who values that. Man, it's a tough life. And so I just don't think that Chris was made for this business. He just wasn't. He had a deal. And when the time came to renew that deal, I think everybody just kind of agreed that let's just go move on. You can be with your family and go do that. He was a super, super guy, very talented. but at the same time, it was just he really didn't, he didn't move as fast as the business moves. And if you stop at any point, it's going to just run you right over. And it just got to the point where Brian Gwertz had been on the team and Brian just kind of took over because when Brian was pitching and then it just got to the point to where Vince would come into meetings and just ask Brian, hey, what do we got? And I don't know if Chris fought for it or not, but I do know that he really valued his family time. I do know that he did not like the schedule at all. So it's not for everybody, just not for everybody. And it's, you know, for people that are used to like a writer in Hollywood or something that sits in a room and they write their scripts and then they do the shows and that's it. They're home at night and they're done after 13 weeks or what have you. This isn't that. This is you've got to go. And, oh, by the way, two days a week, you're on the road producing stuff. So it's just a different animal. It's not for everybody. Kresge was once upon a time the head writer for Remote Control on MTV. I know a lot of people my age grew up with that and really liked it. He helped on shows like Beavis and Butthead and Celebrity Deathmatch. And I think he was once the head writer for The Daily Show, too. and I know he wrote a bunch of books with celebrities. The Brady Bunch. The Brady Bunch and Jim Shatner and Xena Warrior. David Wells, the pitcher. So there's lots of fun stuff in Chris Kresge's life, but unfortunately he passed away like 20 years ago. Yeah, man. Oh, boy. Really sad. Cancer ate him up and it was horrible. He was just way too young, way too talented. You know, it's just, it was really shameless. And it's a loss of a creative guy. I don't think that Chris and I, like on our rides, it would be a 45-minute ride from the airport to home after shows and stuff. And I don't think that we ever discussed the wrestling business on those rides. because I would talk to him about Shatner because I love Shatner and the Brady Bunch. It just intrigued me. He had great stories, man, and he was a fun guy. Let's talk about the other part of this write-up about Kresge's absence. It's written, James Morris is valuable but not as influential as Brian, who is the senior member of the team. Jamie Morris? Oh, Jamie Morris. Oh, God. Tell me about Jamie Morris. I love that name. He was just a writer that would come up with crazy ideas and stuff that he... No, Jamie, I don't think, was... He was on the team. It's written that Stephanie McMahon is getting more involved as each week goes by. Shane is helping produce a lot of the vignettes, but Stephanie is more involved in the creative and writing. and everybody seems to agree that they're getting great reviews from everyone they work with. Did Shane and Stephanie just start taking to it really, really well in late 2000, early 2001, Shane working more as a producer capacity and Stephanie writing, or does Dave have that wrong? No, you know, after Vince Russo left, Vince McMahon was looking to, A, take back more control of everything, and may have been the first time he looked at the undercard in a long time. But he vowed that's never going to happen again. So one way to do that is to have your family there and feeling that the family's not going to go anywhere and utilize them. And he could trust them and he depended on them. And that's, you know, that was the philosophy behind it. But also, you know, Shane started from the very bottom on the ring crew all the way up. I think the only thing that Stephanie didn't do was the ring crew. And she started from the bottom and worked her way all the way up through literally every department in the company. And so they knew the business. They knew it. They loved it. I think they each kind of, you know, landed where their passion was. And as far as that goes, I think Vince had a comfort level there that you, Shane, and TV to go out and work with talent and help produce things and get Stephanie involved in the day-to-day creative. Let's talk a little bit about another what if. It's written in The Observer, and this jumped out at me. This is late 2000. There's at least been some talk of interest in bringing in Bobby Heenan to do commentary on one of the less high-profile shows, maybe working one day a week, but the talk seems to have died in recent weeks. And we know that he did get to call one more match. It was the Gimmick Battle Royal in March of 2001 at WrestleMania 17. but I've always wondered why don't you think Bobby Heenan ever returned to WWE in any more formal or official capacity? I know in years later, much later, he would get cancer, but he was one of the last guys in WCW where when everyone was sort of piling on the WWF or speaking ill of Vince McMahon on the air, he always abstained. He never said anything that was super critical. I think a lot of us just assumed, oh, well, he'll be back, and he wasn't. Did he have some sort of challenged relationship with Vince that we don't know about, or why didn't Bobby ever return? I don't know. I think the primary reason was Vince looking to just go new and younger and feeling that Bobby was going backward. look if it was up to me Bobby would have been back the minute the first second that he could have been back I would have found more than 10 things for Bobby to do but I think and again I'm hypothesizing here I think that it was kind of viewed as well that's going backwards we need to move forward and I think Bobby was associated with the old and not with the future and the new. I just think that's interesting because and I know we're trying to make sense of an illogical situation but a year from now what we're talking about, he's going to bring back Hulk Hogan and Scott Hall and Kevin Nash. Oh and look, Bobby and Vince had a great relationship. That's the thing. and I don't know if it was a situation where maybe Bobby put conditions on things. I don't want to wear. I don't want to do this. I don't want to do that. I don't know. I tried not to get involved because Bobby and I were friends. I see. And, and I couldn't, I couldn't be on, on this side of the negotiations. Didn't want to be. And luckily I, I wasn't. and with Bobby Bobby also respected that Bobby also knew I don't want to put you in an awkward position so but Bobby wasn't bitter about it at all he was like hey more time to play golf and be with my daughter that was his life he just his daughter Jess man was the light of his life and his wife Cindy got beautiful awesome person. And if Bobby could play golf all day and then just hang the rest of the day with his daughter, that's what he would have done. I love that. We're finally here. Let's talk about the Royal Rumble. It went down January 21st at the New Orleans Arena. It's a legit sellout, 16,056 fans. I guess there's about 2,500 freebies and comps. but the paid is $13,481 with $666,700 at the gate, another $93,000 in merchandise. Do you like doing shows in New Orleans? Is New Orleans a WWE town? I think it is now. Look, man, I go back to the Mid-South days. I hated New Orleans. I the first time I went to New Orleans was for a Superdome show. That's where Joe Watts and I got just stinking drunk on Bourbon Street and ended up in a really bad part of town. And and people recognized us and embraced us and took us in. And and we then proceeded to have an even better time. but it was I just never been a fan of New Orleans and it is a great town it is absolutely man for wrestling it's a great wrestling town so yeah it was great they loved the wrestling there I've just never been a real big fan of it personally and again I love to go there I love to go to the restaurants not a fan bourbon street but i i've been i can find different place to eat new orleans every day of the week nobody's a fan of bourbon street nobody likes wading through piss yeah i just i'm not not a big fan even people who live in new orleans don't go to bourbon street um let's talk about the uh the dark match that night or i guess it was a sunday night heat match we get kai and ty Kyentai was there, right, Bruce? And they took on Lowdown. We have not spent a lot of time talking about Lowdown. Chaz and D'Lo! Come on, tell me about Lowdown. Well, I forget where the hell we were at this point. If Glenn had his knee surgery and was completely gone at this point or what. but Chaz D'Lo were two young talents that everybody kind of felt, man, there's something there. There's definitely something there with these guys, but they also were both, you know, in need of something. And I think D'Lo was magnificent. And it's kind of when you don't have anything to do with someone in a singles run, put them together and see what they do. I thought they were a fun tag team, and it just, you know, I think on Chaz, maybe it was he needed somebody to play off of. I think D'Lo was great on his own, but also, to me, this was a fun tag team, and they had fun with it, but it just never really got off the ground. a thrash a thrasher i believe uh tore his um his knee in january of 99 so it's late 99 when they start trying to figure out what the heck do we do i don't know if you saw but i guess the headbangers are saying in 2026 they're going to retire they're going to wrestle their last match maybe this this upcoming summer at a different time in a different place do you think the headbangers could have been even more successful in their WWF run. I enjoyed their work. I liked their presentation. I do think the gimmick was for a moment in time, but they did win the tag straps once, by God. Could they have worked as a tag team duo in a different era? Sure. Yeah, look, they worked well together and they were young and they were different and they had fire and by God, they'd get in there with you. Again, you know, you, you look at things a lot of times, even when we look back in business and, and I, you also have to look at it from the personal side of things. And both of these guys were just awesome, you know? So I enjoyed hanging out with a man. We went on, we went on a cruise and stuff where every night I found myself with the head, head bangers in Bradshaw. And God, we had fun just, just, Every night. They always seemed to be those guys that you would find to go do the extracurricular activities, like go to Universal Studios for a day or, hey, what do you want to do? Hey, let's go do this. Let's go do this tour. Let's go do that. They were fun living in the moment guys. And, you know, smart. Smart. They didn't need the business. You know what I mean? Right. They were able, I think they were able to thrive outside of the business, and they're good folks. Chat me up about the gear, the look of Lowdown. I mean, was Creative Services out to lunch that day? I mean, this is, you got to admit, like, they were dressed like this. Well, it was pretty bad. And I know you liked it. Hell, you tried to bring it back for the revival. Yeah. Yeah. I guess we do need more genie pants in wrestling. Yes, we do. But it's okay for Sabu. Well, Sabu made it look cool. Well, so do they. They look great. You laughed when you said it. I'm looking at the picture. I mean, okay. Chaz looked like the genie from Aladdin. When you look at him, he looks like the genie with the little goatee and all that stuff. No, I'd love their gear, man. Again, it's okay for Sabu, but it's not okay for them. I like their gear. That's good shit right there. Hey, man, y'all check this out. Chime is changing the way people bank. It's fee-free and smarter banking built for you. Not like the old school banks that charge you overdraft and monthly fees. Built for you, not the 1%. And here's why Chime is different. 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All right, let's talk about the pay-per-view. We got the Dudleys out. They're going to be winning the tag titles from Edge and Christian. They go 9 minutes and 59 seconds. Meltzer gives it 2 and 3 quarter stars. Usually when it comes to the Hardee's, Edge, and Christian, you think of three teams together, or you think of Hardee's versus Edge and Christian, or Hardee's versus Dudley's, but not necessarily this pairing, Dudleys versus Edge and Christian. Do you think they had the same chemistry as the other pairings? What did you think of the Dudleys? Absolutely. Oh, God, yes, man. I think that you take any combination of those teams, they had great chemistry all together, and they also had great chemistry with whoever they were paired off with, and they all were able to shine. Yeah. this was a point in time where that tag team division was on fire we really had some great teams that could go every night and they were young, they felt young and it felt good and it felt like, oh hey, there was somebody for the 16 year old kids to be excited about, you know, with the Hardys and they also had somebody to be mad at with the Dudleys and the edge of Christian was cool. It was like, yeah, it was a good time, man. And these four guys, Dudley's edge of Christian, they had chemistry. And they brought it, and they beat the shit out of each other, and the audience really appreciated it. One of the things that happens in this match that the fans go absolutely crazy for is the old Dudley's what's up spot. And I know that some of our younger listeners may not know this, but that whole spot was born out of a Super Bowl commercial for beer. Yeah. And it just felt like when I started to see that on WWE programming, I just assumed, well, here comes the sponsorship. Do you know if WWE ad sales ever had any serious conversations? because it does feel like if you were ever going to have a beer tie-in, besides Stone Cold, the Dudleys doing the What's Up spot, that's the opportunity, is it not? Yeah, I mean, look, they had plenty of conversations with plenty of beer companies and just never, the hurdle always became, well, where can we advertise with you? If your show's going to be rated PG-13, we can't advertise with you. we can't advertise in that slot we could do we could do a pay-per-view do something like that but we can't we can't so it was limited that was the difficulty that that became with the ratings on the shows and uh being able to have have a go out and sell spots well Bruce what was the super bowl rated i have no idea i'm just saying that i mean i saw that what's up hey conrad uh And the NFL gets to do a lot of things that we couldn't do. Okay. There we go. That's what we need. So that's, you know, the NFL doesn't sell toys to kids, although they do. But it's different. The NFL can get away with a lot of things. The NFL is such a juggernaut and superpower that they get to dictate terms as opposed to. Yes. Yes, I got you. Drew Carey is all over this show I guess the story is he wants to since he's doing a pay-per-view he wants to meet Vince McMahon about how to do a pay-per-view and he's looking for tips and he winds up in guessing room tips on how to do a pay-per-view I was looking at the photo if you're watching this on YouTube you see the photo on the screen and he says he's looking for tips Okay. Tips. Tips. Tips. Tips. Okay. Vince is going to talk to him about coming into the Royal Rumble match. And at first, they are trying to push that Drew Carey is a big wrestling fan. But now they sort of have to do an about face about that because he's not familiar with what the Rumble is, and he thought wrestling was all fun, and nobody got hurt. so as far as celebrities go we know that he's going to eventually make the WWE Hall of Fame how was he to work with? we haven't spent much time talking about Drew Carey here on the show unbelievable Drew Carey shows up to the arena with a gym bag by himself comes in the back door introduces himself to everyone says hello my name is Drew Carey I'm involved in things here and I mean every person walking backstage introduces himself to finally found him and said hey introduced him to him I know we got a room for you over here and we put him in a dressing room he goes do I have to stay in here by myself I was like no dude no come on out and he came out And went and just was in awe of it all. But no manager, no lawyer, no friends, no entourage, none of that bullshit. He showed up to the building and came across as just a guy who happened to be extremely successful and was a huge star at the time. and was absolutely just so respectful of everything that we did and everything he saw. He wanted to see it all. He wanted to meet everybody. He wanted to, you know, it was like we had the meeting about Royal Rumble. He wanted to be in there, you know, and don't just come to me and give me my stuff. You know, I want to be a part of it all. And he was that way. sat up and watched the entire show just like a little kid just staring at the screen like oh my god and would thank everybody when they came back from the ring oh my gosh that was amazing, it was the greatest match ever every match was the greatest match you'd ever seen a joy to work with you take the word prima donna and whatever the anti prima donna is that was Drew Carey just a class act all the way through. Let's talk about the next match. It is a doozy. Chris Jericho is going to win the Intercontinental title from Chris Benoit, and they had a ladder match that went nearly 19 minutes. Of course, we don't talk about this match anymore for obvious reasons, but it is one of the forgotten great ladder matches in WWE history. Meltzer gave it four and three-quarter stars. I don't know that we even see ladder matches like this anymore. It feels like these days we see more crazy stunt shows with ladder matches, but this was a match with the ladder involved. You see the diving headbutt there from Chris Benoit. Benoit's dive into the chair is up there in the memorable moments that maybe get painted later on. These guys, you know, they are obviously friends, and they pulled out all the stops. This was one for the ages, and we know that, It's not going to be too much longer, and Chris Jericho is not just going to be hoisting the Intercontinental title over his head. He's going to beat The Rock and Steve Austin in the same day. That's going to happen at the end of the year. So nice bookend pay-per-views for Chris Jericho in 2001. What do you remember about this ladder match between Jericho and Benoit? It was an example of a ladder match that didn't have to have a bunch of crazy, just silly high spots for high spot's sake. As you said, I think you said it beautifully. It was a wrestling match with the ladder involved. Yes. And the brutality and the physicality that was involved in this match was it made you believe. And it made you, you know, it was like, God, get to that ladder. Get to that chair. And they didn't get it. Then when you finally did get it it meant so much more But the way that they used the ladder and it was logical And it wasn't just for high spot's sake. It wasn't just for, ooh, a big holy shit pop. It was logical to win the match. They didn't just use the ladder to go to a spot. They used the ladder to go get the championship hanging up over the ring. And that was what made it so beautiful. I thought it was a great example that people could go back to and view and watch the work and the psychology in the match that it was all about winning the championship. And just masterfully done. It was really great. there's a Meltzer described it as in a spot that couldn't have been executed better Jericho nailed Benoit with a hard chair shot to the head as he was coming through the ropes with a tope it is an unbelievable visual but when you see bumps like this that Benoit's taking when you watch it back now in 2025 can you truly enjoy it or does it always make you think oh wish we wouldn't have done that look man every time I see any kind of that stuff it makes me cringe so yeah I didn't like it then don't like it now let's talk about women's wrestling that's up next here on match number 3 Ivory is going to beat Chyna in 3 minutes and 32 seconds to retain the women's title they're going to do a vignette here where Billy Gunn is basically telling Chyna not to do the match because she's not 100% Chyna is going to mop the floor with Ivory and Stevie Richards and sets up the handspring elbow spot. She mistimes that. She collapses. They're selling it like it's a paralysis angle, noting that her arm never moved, and Ivory quickly pins her. And JR is going to get like a different tone in his commentary, and Jerry Lawler is going to hit the ring to check on her. People are critical of this in the review sense, saying, hey, they're trying to recreate or replicate a real situation and now turn it into story. They do ultimately put her in the cervical collar and stretch her out. Talk me through this. You know, obviously we're telling stories. Some people think, oh, man, this is in poor taste because of what happened to this guy or that guy. What say you? What is our business? Our business is creating moments and doing things that reflect something real. Everything about it is telling stories. So if you don't like it, don't watch it. I mean, come on. Oh, my God, they shouldn't, you know, don't ever do a pile driver again or don't ever do, you know, other risky moves. that someone got hurt on. Right. So if someone slipped on a ladder or someone slipped off the railing or what have you and got injured, don't ever do that again. That's real. Try to present everything as real. That's what the business is. And if that upsets you, then I suggest you find another form of entertainment. Let's talk about the world title match Kurt Angle is going to be in there with Triple H They get plenty of time too, 24 minutes and 15 seconds Triple H does get more cheers than Angle But overall it does feel like fans aren't exactly sure how to react They have a good match Ultimately Austin comes down, gets involved He's going to attack Triple H, nail him with the belt uh triple h now has that crimson mask angle still selling the pedigree so to kill time austin is going to hit triple h with the stunner and leaves and angle barely gets the arm over and kurt angle is going to walk out with his world title uh three and three-quarter stars kind of feels like we're maybe taking the long route to get to the wrestlemania main event. The Rock is not locked in as champion until No Way Out a month later. And we know we're headed to WrestleMania 17, so it's going to be Rock and Austin. Was there a thought to trying to create a three-way dance dynamic here to Rock, or had that become too predictable by this point and we need something for the February show, so we'll do it then? Definitely not a three-way in WrestleMania by any stretch of the imagination. Oh, not WrestleMania. I mean this Rumble match here. Oh, oh, oh, oh. I'm saying we don't – so we know The Rock is going to be wrestling Stone Cold at WrestleMania for the title. But the title match here features no Rock and no Austin. And normally, you know, we kind of know as we come out of Rumble what Mania is going to look like. Yes, keep people guessing. I got you. That's the – look, that is without a doubt 100% the reasoning. So you've got to watch. You've got to stay tuned. And it's just to keep people watching and keep people guessing. And let stories evolve and change at the last minute and go on from there. But, yeah, it could have done that way. But do you want to do that or do you want to see Rock and Austin in the Royal Rumble? And that makes the Royal Rumble even less predictive. Okay. I'm with you now. because part of me wondered hey wouldn't you want an extra month of hyping up rock and austin but i do get what you're saying hey you can really make the rumble special and have them interact and then yes keep it going the following month hey i want to ask you too you know when we look back on triple h and and kurt angle matches i think everyone agrees that they're two of the best that ever did it certainly in wwe and but for whatever reason it feels like their chemistry never really clicked and I know some guys click and some guys don't did you think their matches clicked I feel like I always thought the matches would be better than they actually were it was like they had chemistry with a lot of other people but for whatever reason never together yeah I don't think they did for whatever reason yeah they didn't really click and they both make magic with other folks and the same folks but then you know like Shawn Michaels could do it with both. But yet, for whatever reason, I just think that it was a bit of a styles clash, and it always felt like maybe a half of a step off. So, yeah, I just don't think they really had good chemistry. Let's talk about the Rumble match. It was a great Rumble match. We all know Steve Austin's going to win. He's punched his ticket for the main event at WrestleMania 17. They go 61 minutes and 55 seconds, so it's a long one. Let's talk about Drew Carey, though. He's going to come in when the Hardys are fighting each other, which is weird because I thought brothers couldn't fight. No. But once he gets to the ring, he doesn't touch anyone. Eventually, everyone gets eliminated, and Carey finds himself in the ring by himself, and then Kane's music hits. So I think everyone, myself included, assumed, oh, we're going to get the Pete Rose bump here with Kane and Kerry, and that did not happen. Raven actually made his way in the ring, and Kane's going to interact with him, and well, Drew Carey just simply climbs over the top rope and leaves. And Meltzer would say, this was a pretty lame deal because there was no payoff. Granted, it was better than WCW's usage of David Arquette and Jay Leno going over stars, but at least Pete Rose took his annual one bump. Why didn't Drew Carey take a bump? Because he wasn't there to take a bump. It was our idea to put him in it. He was there to promote his upcoming pay-per-view. That was the reason for the appearance. And when we had him, and we had him before, but it was like, what if we had you as an entry into the Royal Rumble? And again, he was game. and you didn't have to go through a bunch of agents and stuff. You got to talk to Drew. He's like, yeah, great. I don't know if I know how to take a bomb. You know, and for some people, they don't want to do that. But he was willing to take it as far, and it was us that wanted to protect him and make sure that there's not a chance that he can get hurt and not be able to do what he needs to do. So it was a fun spot to be able to get him exposure and get him out in front of the audience, the live audience, and in a fun spot that people talk about. All right, fellas, you already know what time it is. It's time to level up, and Blue Chew just dropped something crazy. I'm talking next-level championship belt gold-plated energy. Blue Chew Gold is the newest innovation from the number one chewable ED brand, and this ain't your grandpa's little blue pill. 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I don't think anybody expected that we would see the return of the Honky Tonk Man. He's just a honky-tonk man. He's cool. He's cocky. He's bad. He's a champion of all time. He's only 47. There's some fans in the front few rows who are really excited to see him. Meltzer would say there were a lot of very confused fans as to who the old guy dressed like Elvis for the guitar was. So, yeah, this Attitude Era, there is a younger crop of fans who maybe hadn't been familiar with the honky-tonk man. But I like the honky-tonk cameo. What say you? love the honky-tonk cameo by god he's cool he's cocky he's bad and you know anytime anytime that you can come out and by god and shake rattle and roll and do what the honky-tonk man does old rock and roll wayne ferris by god it was again another fun spot it was a let me up moment in the rumble and Kane is great for these by the way. But there, everybody knew who the hell the honky talk man was for God's sakes. It is written in the annals of history that he is greatest intercontinental champion of all time. It's a known fact and everybody knew it. we should mention that we get a surprise return of Haku as well. How does Haku wind up back in the fold here? We've seen him in WCW as Ming. And now what do you know? Here he is in the freaking Royal Rumble. Just, you know, available. And it was a name from the past. Another surprise to be able to go out. and just looking for something different. It's one thing to go out and put out all the guys that are on the roster and just have that. You know who it's going to be. And it was a surprise. It was an opportunity to just get somebody new out there and see if there's anything left in the tank with Haku. God, it's hard to believe this was 25 years ago. The torch wrote, Ming was working without a contract in WCW and seized the chance to jump to the WWF because they offered him a contract. I'm grateful to be back here, Haku said in a WWF.com statement, especially because right away they offered me a contract. It's what I was looking for, and it's what I got, and what I'm going with. Ross called him on Wednesday, just days before the pay-per-view, and asked if he was interested in returning. The next day, he talked to Bruce Pritchard from the company's talent relations department and agreed to come to the Rumble. Haku said he was due at WCW in South Carolina on Sunday, but instead he gave the belt to another WCW competitor, the Barbarian, and made his way to New Orleans. Ross made reference to his Friday column where a number of new stars entering the WWF soon. One source says Ming is not the only person he was referring to as far as names joining the WWF roster soon. Hey, that's kind of cool. This guy's holding a belt with WCW, but he sees the writing on the wall, and he's like, yep, I'll see you there. I'll be at the pay-per-view. Good for him. Yeah, and again, it was a unique opportunity. So it was, you know, in recent years, Cody Rhodes, same thing. Didn't have a contract. He's working somewhere else, but he's working without a contract. So strike while the iron's hot. As you may imagine, Rikishi comes in at number 30. As you'll recall, he's the one. Bidded for the rock. There you go. So Stone Cold is going to seriously feud with him in the middle of the Rumble. Eventually, Austin's going to hit Kane with three hard chair shots, clothesline him over the top. Austin's the winner, three and a quarter stars. Something that we've never really talked about, Bruce, is, and I know we've covered WrestleMania 17, but I want to talk about this night, Royal Rumble 2001. The title match doesn't close the show. The Rumble does. We just talked about that with 96 last week. but this is different this is more Hogan must pose because now we've got I don't know Austin must drink beer he must drink beer yeah so we're doing all of that but my question is did you know we were going to turn him heel at Wrestlemania at this point or at this point are we still thinking man he's he's freshly back he's just feuding I mean he just beat up Rikishi in the rumble fans are going nuts for him he doesn't feel when you watch this back like oh yeah he's turning heel in two months but he did. When was that decision made? Did you know at this point at Royal Rumble? The idea is out there. A lot of debate. A lot of people back and forth. I would say that wasn't really firm until at least second week of the XFL. second or third week but even then people were you know there were two camps there were those that liked it and those that didn't but the the feeling also was you know we knew what we were going to do with Steve we knew that Steve was going to be the champion at that point and I think most people it just was there were so many different things that were thrown out And, you know, it all just hinged on, do you want to turn Steve or not? And I think, you know, history proved out that I don't think it was a great idea to turn Steve. And I think later on probably could have turned and been a great fucking heel. But at this point in his career, he was so hot and just so loved that he could have set the Pope on fire on Main Street and they would have cheered. So, you know, the jury was still out. So at this point, you're thinking maybe it's a baby face WrestleMania with Rock and Austin. well no it was does rock turn again look there were just a lot of different ideas but it was definitely the biggest match in the book baby face versus baby face which is kind of what it was going in and you didn't know till the end but yeah it was there were a ton of things on the table. It was like everything you could possibly think of was on the table. But the match was still the two biggest names in the business against one another. This was the third time, right? The second time. The second time. At that point, do you think the company at large viewed Austin as 1A and Rock as 1B? Yes. Do you think Rock saw it that way? No. that's what made the rivalry so good right it is look anytime and Rock Rock was valid in his argument I think Rock was just as big of a star however I think to the hardcore fan to the broader based fan in the wrestling world it was Stone Cold Steve Austin but Rock man look I think Rock was his equal without a doubt I just think that the fans, if you were to, you know, okay, we're going to put Steve on one end and Rock on the other and put the fans in the middle, see who they go to. I think the majority would go Steve. They're still going to have 40% with Rock easily. Do you think guys ever grow out of those rivalries or do they stick with you forever? Like, you know, do you think Hogan in the back of his mind was ever playing through that or maybe flair does like do you think any sort of that once it's there is it there for life almost like a football rivalry like it's eagles and cowboys or redskins and cowboys you know i think for some people it is but i i i do believe that after years go by and and nobody's in the ring anymore that it all turns to just a mutual respect and love of one another yeah because you had the opportunity to make music and beautiful memories with these people. And you're not in competition anymore. So that, but I feel that the jealousy and the combativeness of that is healthy. If you're not competing for your spot, you're not competing to be the best and the number one guy, then you don't deserve to be in the business. So that's a healthy thing to have. And you want people that are hungry and trying to beat out the guy next to them. But I think that with some, it probably still remains. You know, I was like, God damn, that son of a bitch one time stiffed me in Laredo, and I'll never forget it. I just killed my gimmick in Laredo that night. I had almost 200 people hanging from the rafters. Shit. Dead in Laredo. You know, there's that shit. But I don't think that, for the most part, people get over it and go, God, man, thank you. Because they realize, once they're away from the business, that they realize that, hey, if I didn't have that person to work with, then I wouldn't have been as big of a star as I am. Do you think that sort of professional rivalry can still exist today, or has the business changed with guaranteed contracts the way they are? I mean, once upon a time, being the top guy meant that you probably made more money, and some guys were competing for that top spot because it meant a bigger paycheck. But now since guys are pretty much locked in and they're making the same either way, does that professional rivalry exist as much or is it more camaraderie now? Well, yeah, I throw a flag on that as bullshit because I don't give a shit if you have a guaranteed contract or not. You should still be competing to be the best and you should never be satisfied. So if there's an opportunity and there is an opportunity to show that you're better than somebody else and you don't grasp that and fight for it, and you're not constantly trying to be better and be bigger and do more, then you deserve to just stay right there in your little spot and get your guaranteed money. But I think that those that are fighting and those that are out there doing everything, they're not just fighting to keep what they have, but they're fighting to get more. that's how you get more is by continuing to work harder than everybody else. So guaranteed contracts are one thing. And I see that, but I also believe that this is America and that it's a land of opportunity. And if you, you go out and you're better than somebody else, you take, you take what you're given, and make the most out of it, then that shows, and it's often rewarded. Let's talk about the other fourth surprise. I mentioned there were four surprises. We've covered Haku, who just said, hey, Barbarian, take this hardcore belt to Eric Bischoff. I'm not coming back. That was awesome. We see the returning honky-tonk man. We know Jim Carrey is one of them. But the other fourth surprise. Drew Carrey. My bad. Drew Carey. Although Jim Carey would have been nice. Yeah, if he could have done the Grinch and the Rumble, that would have been awesome. I know, right? I said, Jim, a few times today because my family, as we're recording this, just watched the Grinch movie, and it was fresh on my mind. My apologies. Yeah. So, hey, here's the Big Show write-up. Big Show was the fourth surprise, and it's written here, show looked almost as heavy as in his WCW days, so the WWF has a real problem right now. they made it public they weren't going to use him until he got to 400 pounds and he kept getting the they kept getting word that the weight was coming off i don't know what happened but he showed up big as when he left and either they're going to look bad taking him back after he didn't get the weight off making him look like wcw management or he made some very bad decisions that are going to negatively affect his once promising career rock ultimately clotheslines him out and i know that We were reading about this in the newsletters a lot that WWE was frustrated with his look and his weight. What can you tell us about this? Because this is a surprise return. Were you guys shocked or disappointed when you saw him, or did you know what you had but knew, hey, it's the Rumble, we need a surprise, here we go? No, we were a little shocked and disappointed with what we got. but again we were led to believe that it was going to be something else and this was not a good time for Big Show for several reasons and he just you get to a point where he was an attraction they don't grow seven foot giants on trees and And, yeah, it was just disappointing because, again, from the other point of view, it was lost opportunity for him. He should have come back just stronger than ever and moving better. And it was for his own good, just his longevity, for his own health and to feel good. And when you have someone that you have seen be able to transform and be able to do things, it's just disappointing. But to me, it wasn't a good time for a big show. Let's talk about Kane here. Why was this the year to put Kane over so strong? He's going to have a really long run, a record number of eliminations. Was there a feeling that he needed to be rehabbed a bit? you're trying to rebuild the Kane character here a little bit just a great character and I think people now call it the Kane spot but originally it was the Diesel spot that just the guy that stands in the middle of the ring and kills everybody and gets the most eliminations and is a dominant monster and it helps for a huge elimination towards the end when he finally gets eliminated and it just was he was the guy in that spot this year did you think Kane and Undertaker were better as rivals or allies did you like them as opponents or tag teams allies I like them as a team they're just too I don't think they really have great chemistry against one another the story's great But they're, God, man. Again, the other bad part about that is who's going to beat them? Right. They're so strong. So, to me, they were just an unbelievable, scary, great tag team. Well, Bruce, we've covered 1991. We've covered 1996. We've covered 2001. Where do you rank the 2001 Royal Rumble all-time? We know we're just a couple of months away from what a lot of people still to this day say is the greatest WrestleMania of all time. I recently did an Ask JR Anything, and I said, what was the greatest event you ever broadcasted? I didn't hesitate. WrestleMania 17. This sort of helps set that one up. Where do you hold the Royal Rumble 2001 on the all-time best of Royal Rumble list? It's going to definitely be up in the top 10. I think it was great. And, again, why is you had a little bit of everything for everybody, but also, as I said earlier, the unknown factor in ending up where you have Steve and Rock in towards the end, and you just know one of those guys is going to win and not being able to pick it. But the fact that they're both in there, could somebody else win? It just was, it had a lot of intrigue. I thought overall, the show was great. The overall show itself was great, though. And the match, the Royal Rumble match was absolutely one of the best. But for the whole show, this show was great. Well, I enjoyed it, Bruce. I love sitting under your learning tree and learning a little bit. We are looking forward to next week. In the meantime, we want you to do us a favor. Hit that subscribe button Turn on the notifications bell Throw us a comment Let us know what you thought about the Royal Rumble 2001 Where it ranks in your all-time list Bruce, this was a blast today I appreciate it And I'm looking forward to next week Me too We'll see you then, right here On Something to Wrestle With Bruce Prichard Rock on! Thank you.