EP: 385 Magick, Mediums and Mermaids with Jess Phoenix

When I saw how powerful the name Jesus is, oh you can say God, you can say Lord, you can say whatever, but if you say the name Jesus, all hell breaks loose. Everyone goes wild, whether that's praise God or I don't want to hear that and I remember being a witch and hearing about Jesus and I would get irritated to my core like my skin was itching from the inside. Shut up, don't talk about Jesus Christ and this is why I say to people you know when somebody's a witch because you're not really able to talk about Jesus okay, you can talk about God, you can talk about other things, but if somebody is operating in a demonic spirit, merely mentioning Jesus is enough to unsettle them right. Yes they talk about witches in the churches and stuff. I don't know how much of that I believe, I don't even know how many of those are actually witches because one I don't see why a witch would go in the church, they hate churches. I wouldn't, I wouldn't have gone in a church you know and secondly if there are witches in Christianity then they are doing something to mask that. They must have learned a new form of magic because a real genuine practitioner of witchcraft will be very uncomfortable talking about Jesus for one and two would not be able to say that he is Lord. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. The Smithsonian and if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right because if one person's right it busts the paradigm. It all goes back to the fallen charity and the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop is just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Hermon event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. We're going across the pond today, we're excited, blurry creatures, we're back here in the basement but our guest Jessica Murray, do you go by Jessica Phoenix or Jessica Murray? Oh no, no, I don't even use my actual name. I'm just known as Craft to Christ online now. Craft to Christ. We appreciate you coming on. We've had more messages over the last I think year to have you on the show and talk about your story and talk about some of the blurry things you've encountered and you're an ex-wish. They obviously came to Jesus and you're helping people specifically I think when you help the people who have been in the darkest places. It's always loads of fun. A mixed bag. People are really grateful for what you do and a lot of people attack you constantly because you don't do the way they want. Welcome to blurry creatures. If you've been listening to our show, we ask everybody, kick off the conversation and we can get into your story. What are your thoughts on Bigfoot? What do you think about the big guy? And there seems to be very few sightings over in the UK, if any. Let's say he's over there, but I don't think so. Bigfoot, I mean, to be honest with you, like you just said, he's not really mentioned too much in the UK, but one that is mentioned a lot here, especially as I was growing up is Slenderman. So we've actually had a lot of sightings, especially kind of into the Lake District, which is in the UK. There is a place called Pluckly, which is the most kind of haunted village in Kent. There are a lot of sightings of these big, extended, elongated creatures. Have we had Bigfoot? Unfortunately, not. I haven't seen him knocking about, but we do get quite a few strange, I would say Slenderman looking things, but again, hard to tell if the footage is right or not. I believe it. I believe it. But yeah, no Bigfoot, unfortunately, boys. Is a Slenderman a demonic? Well, that's been in the news lately, too, if you've been following it, which is kind of crazy. It's supposed to be a fictional character, right? It's this idea of, but if you've been following the news at all, the one of, there were two girls that stabbed and killed their friend. I saw that. Yeah. And one of the girls is now out of the system, fled, ran. It's kind of been in the news, but you know, if you look this thing up, it's fictional. It's not real in bold letters. It's this creepypastas thing. However, it's in some ways, it kind of reminds me of the rake, which people claim that it comes from the same, you know, the same sort of thing that says made up thing, but then people are out encountering. We have people on the show that said they saw, you know, a rake. So, you know, I don't know, I just tend to think that like sometimes these things that either have an origin story or they get mimicked by the King of Darkness, right? So you, because they feed on fear, it's terrifying. So that's really interesting that you're seeing, or your people are seeing this, you know, quote, fictional character when it, you know, out in the UK when... Bigfoot's not hanging out in the Midlands. He's just, there's nowhere to hide. Well, there's a wild man. Didn't we talk to Hugh Newman about this? There's like, the UK has a wild man. He was kind of like Bigfoot. Probably not in Kent. But I think everyone in the UK is kind of a wild man, you know? They're just, guys are all doing their own thing out there. We digress. You have so much government oppression, you have to fight every day. You guys are wild. You know, Harness Slender made a fight for the rebellion. We've got it really bad. But how, where's your story start? Maybe catch our listeners up who've never heard of you. And you can look up on Craft of Christ on Instagram if you're on the gram. Probably get more detailed reels about your story, but love to hear where it all started for you. Well, to be honest, I'm amazed. I'm even, like I said, I'm amazed I'm sitting here with blurry crickets. I've been listening to these guys for years, you know, in my car loving their stories. And I'm seeing it talking to them as a bit wild. So fangirling moment. Yeah, also, I never really expected this to happen. So bear with me. I'm, yeah, I do my best. So long story short, I'll cut it short. I got big on social media in 2020. So, you know, like when COVID hit, for some reason, there was a massive surge in algorithm at that time for witchcraft and new age. Everybody was like really getting into it. And I have had a prophetic gift since I was quite young. So I've been able to see the future and things like that and spirits and people's past, love ones and stuff. So I started putting it online and all of a sudden it just went bang, you know, my page got quite big. I worked with another group of girls. So our page got quite big. And yeah, it was all good for a while, you know, I built a big business out of it. It was all really successful. And then, and then I say and then a couple years later, we started noticing that things were just going down here and I'm talking health issues out of nowhere. Serious mental health on my end, my I was going for a mental battle that kind of came out of nowhere. I was being sort of tormented by spirits in my house. And so were my children as well, particularly like sleep paralysis started having thoughts that just were not mine. So I started questioning witchcraft a little bit at that point, bearing in mind, I started at probably 15, you know, doing it. So I started questioning, hold on a second, something just doesn't feel quite right now. They're in mind when we were doing the spells, everything was good for a while, you know, it was all yeah, the money spells were coming in and the love spells and everything was hunky-dory. But then we started to notice, I say we me I started to notice that it was coming back in a negative way. So you would do a money spell, for example, but then you'd have a huge financial loss somewhere else. Maybe do a loss spell, but then attract the worst possible person for you, you know. So yeah, it was a bit of like a slippery slope for me. I'll be honest with you, I never had any interest in Jesus, no interest in God. I grew up, my dad specifically told me to stay away from that religious nonsense. I remember I got given a little red Bible in the UK, you get a little storm book, tiny little red thing and I bought a home and I thought dad look what I got and he went absolutely not only robbed it across the green where I lived, he went never in this house. So from a young age, I think Jesus God was kind of gutted out early. And you know, it's very easy to fall into the occult when you have things that the church doesn't talk about like prophecy, the enemies they're like, oh no, you're a psychic, come and do that instead. There are so many people out there that are so creative and empathic and they can feel more than possibly others can feel when the church doesn't talk about it. So well, not from what I've seen anyway, probably does, but generally speaking, you don't hear too much of it. So the occult was just there like, yeah, come in. Anyway, getting back to where we were, I nearly lost my life. So a lot of people have heard this story, this was kind of like my crunch point. Life was getting so bad, my friendships were just breaking up, there was so much betrayal going on, arguments out nowhere, I'd walk out in the street and somebody would like literally start an argument with me and it was just like, I felt like I had a target on my head at one point. And yeah, so it comes to a point I had my youngest daughter and I say the devil, I'm sure it was the devil, but I was told I was going to die and pass away during that serian and everybody who followed me at the time, I did a live and I said, guys, I'm not coming out the other side of this. And they were like, no, just obviously, you know, you do like, no, no, no, no, no, I said, no, I can feel I am not going to survive this as serian. So just before I went in, somebody just made me pray and I said, if there's a God up there, then I don't want to, I don't want to leave now. I got kids, but I did pass away. I lost three and a half liters of blood. It was the most horrific thing I've ever been for. I won't go into detail because it's gory, but you can kind of imagine I was awake, put it that way. Three and a half liters of blood gone. I've even put pictures up and videos of me with no blood. My lips were white, so I had like no blood left in my body. And I felt my soul come out of my body. I was looking at myself from the left. So I could see the bed. I could see my partner. I could hear my baby, faintly sort of crying, but I was going up, but diagonally. And then I just felt this, I don't know how to explain it. It was like I went, boom, break back like that. And all I heard was believe me now, believe me now. I woke up and I was like, did I just die? And I remember all the doctors looking at me, it was blue lighted and it was only about 37 seconds. I was gone. But that's where the story starts. And then Jesus came to me later, but I'll talk to you about that if you want to know it. Every single Bible story, something weird happens on a mountain. Always listen, guys, this always happens. There's so many questions about theology and how to deal with the paranormal and UFOs and giants and werewolves. And does the Bible even say anything about that? And so I'm really excited to let you guys know that me, Luke and Nate have joined together to create a brand new product, a brand new resource called Stranger Theology. It's hosted on Substack. It's going to come with three to four different theology essays a month written by myself and a team of resident theologians and scholars that we really trust. It also is the place where we're going to premiere season one of the Cosmic Mountain series, 12 episodes, one episode a month that releases, and we're going to do quarterly live question response times with me and these guys and some special guests along the way. And so we want to invite you to join us there because we think it's going to be epic. Listen, you should not be bored with the Bible and also we're not going to protect you from the Bible. It's time to explore the Cosmic Rum in honesty and humility. You can learn more at the Substack. Just go to StrangerTheology.Substack.com. Unpause. What just happened? Whoa, that was a weird episode. I blocked out for a second. Me too. We need help. What do you mean when you say you knew? Like you were, is it like a premonition or do you get like a, I mean, when you're practicing sort of as a psych, not sort of as a psychic in the occult, how do you get, is an impression or do you feel like you hear that directly? Like official letter from the parliament? Not that. Well, unfortunately, no, they don't like us. Yeah, we don't get on. Anyway, the two things really, I mean, yeah, prophetically, I did have a vision with what I could only describe to be a demon that was saying that I was, I was not going to be here anymore, but more to the point, I had this impending sense of doom and I don't know how to explain it, but you will kind of see that people that are dying or, you know, coming up to something terrible, they often describe this impending sense of doom. They don't know where it's coming from, but like, you know, your life's going to end. And I just kept saying it to my followers, I said, I'm not going to survive this. And people were just saying, Oh, no, it's just if there's, I said, no, listen, and I said to the doctors, it's in my hospital notes, you need more of my blood because I'm a racist negative. I was quite a rare blood type, especially in the UK, it's hard to get hold of. I said, you need a lot more than what you got. And the doctors laughed me off. I actually ended up putting in a big complaint. But yeah, I lost pretty much every bit of blood in my body. They said if I was a little bit shorter, I'd have died. And I'm nearly six foot, you know, I'm big foot here. So you have an out of body experience. And then was it after you came back into your body, then you heard the believe me now? Yeah. Yeah, because I thought it was the doctor saying it to me. Because I had a couple of doctors around me and I just kept hearing believe me now, believe me now. But nobody said that. And I asked my partner, was that you, did you know, I haven't really was busy like writing notes, trying to obviously deal with what was going on. But I just kept hearing like believe me now, believe me now. But that's not actually when I experienced Jesus, I didn't know what that was. That was, I just thought it was like a spirit guide as you do, or something when you're in the occult. I didn't experience Jesus until another three, four months later. I was still doing witchcraft when I recovered eventually, I was like, March Simpson for months, I was bright yellow, I had no blood in me. And then I thought it sounds so stupid to say this, but I practiced dark magic anyway. And I learned out my little caravan that I had, I don't know what you guys call it over there. You know what caravan is? A camper? Kind of like camper. Yeah, yeah. Like a motorhome. Yeah, a little tiny, tiny little mark home and it wasn't anything special. And I lived near the woods and I was walking in there and I saw a homeless couple and it was snowing, it was freezing, their hands were like blue. And I said, listen, you can't stay out here. Nobody was helping them. So I said, take my caravan. And again, I this was on social media because they said, hello on my social media, people raised a bit of money for them. So then watch this all play out. And the homeless couple trashed it. And I mean, ripped it to smithereens in the worst ways possible, trashed it, if you know what I'm saying. And they walked up the road and stuck their middle finger up at me and said, yeah, that's what you get. And you know, I housed them, I clothed them, I fed them and something in me just, I would say something evil took over me in that moment, because I wanted to just wreak havoc. I'd had enough of all the betrayals being treated so badly. So I switched. And I remember it was 2am, couple nights later, I was doing dark magic, that dark magic, I won't go into detail when it is done, like to say it, but yeah, very dark magic, probably bordering on Satanism at that point. Because I wanted revenge. And this thing walks in the room at two o'clock in the morning. And bearing in mind, I'm delirious, so you could have said that it was a hallucination or whatever, but I see spirits at that point a lot. And this light walks in my room and I'm sitting there with this table full of bones and all sorts. And it comes right up to the table and I said, I'm not interested. I'm not talking to you, go away. And it stood there and I felt this, I don't know how to really explain this, but I love I'd never felt before and that feeling of like, you know, when you want to go home, but you don't know where home is, I felt home for like a split second, I was like, what the heck is this? And then I said, why are you then? Who are you? Why won't you leave me alone? And it just said I am. And I said, right, whatever. Yeah. So yeah, at that point again, I didn't know what that meant. So I went to sleep woke up the next day. And I remember seeing all this black gunk coming out on my chest, like venom, you ever seen venom? Obviously, you've seen venom, but you know, when it's all like jittery and like, it was coming out of my chest. And I know I sound crazy, believe me, I know. And I felt different next morning. I didn't feel so like vengeful and hateful. And I was like, what is that? And then I was in the front room, my son was watching tell you I put on a film called Prince of Egypt, little cartoon film, bear in mind, not religious at this point. So I didn't really know what it was referring to. And I'll never forget this. I was sleeping at my house. And then I heard the Bush Moses was talking to the Bush and he said, who are you? And the Bush said, I am. And I dropped that so fast. I remember doing that and I froze. I was like, so I went back and watched it. And obviously the Bush is got Jesus Christ. And I was like, oh, my goodness, that was Jesus Christ. Was that Jesus Christ? And my body just filled with like goose bumps, but like not normal goose bumps, like something actually filled my body. And my mother-in-law, who's a Christian, she was praying for me for years to get out of witchcraft. She called me, not long after that. And she said, something's changed. What's happened? And I said nothing. She went, no, something shifted. I can feel like she's very, you know, she prays a lot and she gets to a God and she said, I can feel something's changed. I wasn't telling her. I was like, no, no, no, she's okay. You're fine. Then I was like, yeah. And honestly, I'll be honest with you, my business was in witchcraft. I had an online presence being a witch. The last thing I wanted to do was come online and start saying that Jesus Christ is real. It was not good for business. So I ended a state of panic. I thought I couldn't deny what I just experienced. There was no way. I mean, not only did he save my life, he all kind of clicked at that point. I was like, oh my goodness, that's Jesus Christ. And I started to say, okay, if you're real, then come speak to me, come talk to me and he started coming into my dreams and telling me things I can't really remember now, but he was guiding my steps. And I said, what do I do? I've got a following of like, 50,000 people at the time or something silly, you know, they were all my clients. I do spells. I do psychic readings. Like, you're obviously not friends with that. So what do I do? And I gave it to God. And I said, okay, clearly you've got a planning. I don't know what you're doing with me. And yeah, that's where it all started. Do you feel like that's wild? I mean, it sounds like, I think a lot of people who maybe grew up in the church don't really understand how the mentality is of somebody who practices occult witchcraft and things like, they would probably assume you know who Jesus is, and you're clearly anti Jesus and you're going, you're fighting against him. But I think a lot, it sounds like a lot of witches who, ex witches who come on the show, say it's like, it's sort of like fun and games and there's levels of seriousness, like almost like, oh yeah, it's just a hobby, we go down and play pickle ball, but instead we have like tables full of bones. And but then there are people who are really serious about it and then get really often to they they're actually like working for the kingdom of darkness. Can you explain maybe some levels and like, because a lot of people just don't understand, they just have this very like, everyone is a witch has a has the book of spells and they know exactly what they're doing. But it seems like there's a varying degree of involvement. You're spot on to me and I'm glad you know that because a lot of people don't. So when I come online, they start asking me all kinds of questions about Satanism, I don't know about Satanism, you know. So yes, there is like a hierarchy when it comes to the occult. We have some fabulous creators as you know that are new age. So they talk about I think you had someone your podcast as well. They talk about horoscopes and, you know, things like that. That's not really my jurisdiction, even though yes, I did do that. Mime was more the actual craft. So the craft itself, you start with things like manifesting, for example, seems harmless and then horoscopes. And then all of a sudden it's tarot cards. So you're like looking at level one there. And then once you've got into the sort of tarot cards, it's like, okay, well, how much deeper can I go and then you probably start doing pendulums and things like that, a Ouija boards. It becomes more of a seeking for more information, forbidden knowledge, you know, that's what your cult is forbidden knowledge. So you kind of come down again. And I always say that the new age as psychic stuff is like best friends of witchcraft. So at some point, you're gonna, you're gonna doge in there. So you're gonna come down a level. And like me, when I started, it was all white magic, healing, pregnancy spells, you know, nice things, pretty, you know, witchcraft is very appealing. It's very aesthetically pleasing, especially for women, you know, it's very enchanting. But then, then a shift happens where it's like you literally create a contract, you know, even a way of doing it with the devil. And you start getting this power that isn't yours. And your spells work, but then there's a price to pay. And you all of a sudden, before you know, you're becoming this woman, furious, angry, and I became a shadow of myself. I was a monster, at one point, I was angry, I was judgmental, I was cruel, mean girl, you know, mean. And it's not my heart. So I knew something had taken over, but I couldn't get rid of it. It was like, I was in a cage shouting, stop, stop, I couldn't stop it. It was only Jesus. And I think now looking back, that black stuff that came out of me, must have been a spirit witchcraft. I don't know. But I was, I was me again, when I woke up the next morning, like, old Jess. So you kind of go down these planes. And before you know it, you're in Satanism. And I was this close, I'm surprised because Jesus, as I know, we have free will. But Jesus literally said, no, but if I hadn't had experienced him, I would never have turned to Jesus ever. Jesus was a no go from me as a kid, you know. So he had to physically shout out and say, Hello, this is not you. And change my life overnight. Wasn't easy. But yeah, grab me out of hell like that. Did you know that only 6% of people ever actually accomplished their goal of reading the Bible in a year? And I think one of the big issues is you end up hitting Leviticus and you're confused. It's chaotic. How the heck do I make sense of these weird, clean, unclean rituals and sacrifices. And what we really want is for the story to make sense. So I'm really excited to announce for the very first time, I've never actually seen this ever before, a read the Bible in a year plan where we're going to look at the stranger parts of Scripture. We're going to take the things that are odd, weird, Leviathan, giants, Nephilim, the unseen realm and cosmic battle. And we're going to bring coherence to that. We're not going to protect you from your Bibles. We're going to explore it with you with honesty and humility. And really excited. We've got for the first time ever the stranger theology journal in a year working through the Bible. This is going to be the way for you to keep track of your reading plan. We've got 12 exclusive essays in here, infographics, and a prayer list. I mean, I think this can be really helpful for you to read the cosmic narrative of the Scripture. So grab the stranger theology, the Bible in a year journal today. You can grab it on Amazon and I'm telling you, this is going to change your life, not because of what we've done, but because it's the Scriptures and the Scriptures come alive when we understand the cosmic narrative of the text. Why do you think the new age and sort of the top level occultist becomes so appealing to women specifically? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I actually just released a free book. And it says all about this because it is the women that actually go to witchcraft, obviously, mostly there are some guys, but mostly women. And I think for women, there is a sense of power. A lot of women who have been abused, a lot of women who have been quite like silenced in their lives, oppressed in ways, you know, I do tend to see a lot of women that find their voice and find their strength are drawn to witchcraft because witchcraft will protect you, witchcraft will give you power. And also it's very, it's attractive, you know, women in the words of fairies and mermaids and unicorns and princesses and knights, you know, that all leads into witchcraft. So I think even as kids, our skills are kind of exposed to witchcraft a little bit, you know, for Halloween, we dress up as witches and stuff like that is magical. So I think women, especially if they've gone through, you know, horrific things in their lives, and this is why I've got such a heart for witches, people don't understand that. And I think they hate me for it. Why are you so nice about witches as well? Because I was one. And yeah, I personally went into witchcraft because I loved magic. I loved helping people. But I also am terrified of the world. People have never been kind to me since I was a kid. I've always been a person that people naturally see me and there's something about me they don't like. I've come to accept it now. But I'm no stranger to being attacked. So having witchcraft made me feel like you can't touch me because my spirit guys are going to look after me or my spells are going to protect me. But now it's all a deception from the enemy. And I hate to see these girls trapped in it, because I can see myself in what they are. And they're all good girls. I say this, which is, yes, there are some that wake up and choose chaos and unleash havoc. But most of them wake up and want to improve their lives or they want to heal somebody. They're not realizing that they're actually doing the devil's work. No one does. It's like a big blinker. It's crazy. I think a lot of people think that witchcraft just stops and then we never participate in it. But there's also a lot of Christians use witchcraft and they don't even realize they're doing it by judging people or like being very manipulative to other people. And it's a form of witchcraft. So it's like, there's different layers to these things. You get into that, like different types of spirits and like how people partner with them to do missions. Because I do think it starts a little like, we're just gossiping, you know, and then all of a sudden it's a full blown seance and ceremony in the Christian way, right? You are spot on. I'm so glad you just mentioned that the biggest form of witchcraft I have ever seen is gossip. And it's something that we all do, something that we all fall into. And the spirit behind gossip is one that begins gangstalking. A lot of people have lost their lives because of gossiping, let's be honest. And so this spirit is all about changing and manipulating the way others see a person. So when you basically make an accusation against somebody, or you gossip about somebody and only talk about their bad bits, you are trying to manipulate the way somebody else sees a person for your own gain. That is witchcraft. And Christians, I have to be honest, the real ones don't gossip. I have Christian friends now, we don't talk about anybody ever. But the ones I've kind of seen Christian mean girls, my goodness. Yeah, it is, it is like, I was quite shocked to come out of the occult and see Christian mean girls. I wasn't prepared. I've come under that myself. I've been accused of being a witch still, a wolf in sheep's clothing, I could go on, by Christian women. And what shocked me the most about that was that they weren't aware that that is the occult. That's not that's not Christianity at work there. That's not the Holy Spirit. To tarnish a person to gangstalk and gang attack one person is witchcraft. So that spirit is sneaky. And it will fool you, it will say, Oh, but it's for the interests of other people. Or, you know, we're just discussing it, we're worried about them. No, if you are trying to change the way a person sees somebody else, because it benefits you in some way, or you've had a falling out with them, that is witchcraft. And what people don't realize is gossip starts, comes around, and then back again, you will never not be found out, you are always going to be found out the amount of times I've seen big group chats about me. And someone comes forward and says, Oh, Jess, I feel so bad. I was in this group chat about you. And I'm like, Oh, everything done in the dark, as God says, will come to light. And the biggest one Christians fall into without a doubt is gossiping and cursing people's lives. And it comes back around. And that's why they're like, I don't get why, you know, things are going so badly. Or, you know, all of a sudden people are talking bad about me. It's like, well, yeah, because she's set the spirit off. Jess, can you can you actually also talk about the flip side of that, which has become very popular and mainstream, which is the idea of manifesting, because it gets wrapped in this sort of marketing that's like, oh, you're just really just like visualizing and setting goals for yourself. It's totally innocuous. But, you know, you started saying that and I know from doing the show that that in and of itself is, is witchcraft. It's, it's, it's trying to bring about a result on your own sort of your own doing, right? Yeah. Can you talk about that though? Because that has become pervasive, whether it's like professional athletes or influencers or whoever you want to see in sort of the the universe of our voices. If you're inclined to manipulation and you become a Christian, you still kind of do it, but you just do it like a different way. But it's still kind of the same thing you were doing before and manifesting as a kind of manipulation. You're manipulating the future to give you things, right? Yeah, basically. And the worst part about manifestation is that you are now responsible for your life. So you better take note of every thought you have, because if it's bad, oh, you're manifesting it. You know, it's something that I noticed with people that are manifesting. I mean, I used to manifest, but I was more spell work, you know, and they would drive themselves insane. The anxiety of, oh, no, I've had a terrible thought about car crash. So I'm going to crash my car, you know, and then they'll they'll try and undo it almost. So, you know, manifesting is not real. But the enemy knows if you want something, he can kind of go, oh, you manifested this, which then makes you think, oh, manifesting is real. And then all of a sudden, you've manifested a house with a water leak, right? You've manifested a partner that's a raging narcissist, or you've manifested a job with the biggest bunch of bullies in there. So basically manifesting, the enemy makes it work so that you keep going back there. But it actually infiltrates on God's plan. So say God has a specific job for you lined up, and then you start manifesting or manipulating the universe, or spirits, the enemy, whatever, he will bring in another job that is not part of God's plan. For you completely off course, you know, somebody else's job that was meant for, and then everything's absolute carnage. So manifesting doesn't just impact you. It impacts people around you, especially if they're not covered in the blood of Jesus, you know. So manifesting, yes, clever. There's nothing wrong in saying that I am healthy, I'm strong. The Bible tells us to affirm ourselves with Jesus, though. It doesn't say go out into the universe and say, I am going to get this, I'm going, because who are you asking? If you're not asking God, who are you asking? What source? You know? So this is what I say to people, I don't manifest with God. Now I talk to him, I have conversations with him, and I say, God, your will be done. And I recommend that to anybody watching this, you may really want to control your life. You may really want this outcome, or this person, or this job, but believe me, we don't know what we want. We really don't. And this is someone who done spells for people, and they'd come back and go, oh, it's not what I thought it would be. You know, I manifested everything that I wanted, but guess what? I wasn't happy. And it started falling apart one by one. This is the definition of building your house on the sand. So when you let God come into it, he will take out a few things that the enemy brought in, and then he'll start to build your life on a rock. God has a bird-eye view for your life, and he has plans to prosper you, not to harm you. And his plan for you is perfect. When we start thinking our plans are better, because we're humans, we're egoistical, and we love control, this is where the problems come in. So manifesting, I would personally stick here, even though it's not complete witchcraft, it is like eat her in there. Like witchcraft light? Yeah. And you've been on both sides of this. How often do you think Christians think they're hearing from the Holy Spirit, and they're not hearing from the Holy Spirit? I personally have seen this recently. There's a Kundalini spirit or something going around. I don't know if you guys have heard of it. This is not the Holy Spirit. Yeah, I think, I don't know. I don't know where this spirit is coming from. I've only just heard about it, and I tested the spirit. It's not Holy Spirit. This Kundalini awakening is posing as the Holy Spirit. And I do think it's at work in a lot of churches and whatever. But to know that you are speaking with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit will never tell you to harm somebody else. Sin, heart yourself, do something crazy and chaotic that could get you killed. And there's so many people that I say, oh, I'm hearing from the Holy Spirit right now. It's a download for you. And I'm like, well, you're doing psychic readings. I can see it. I can see the spirits that work. And I'm like, no, no, that's not the Holy Spirit. Prophecy doesn't work on, oh, yeah, God, give me a prophecy. It doesn't work like that. And that's the difference. I think if you really want to hear from the Holy Spirit, you've got to learn his voice. Like God says, my sheep know my voice. But there's a lot of voices in the spirit realm. It's noisy out here. And someone who sees spirits and hears them, it's noisy. So first of all, if you want to hear from the Holy Spirit, you need to loudly rebuke all voices that are not the voice of Jesus Christ of Nazareth who rose from the dead, because there are things that poses Jesus to. Don't think there isn't. I've seen a false Jesus. There are things that pose God, I'm Jesus. Jesus Christ that rose from the dead. Okay, be very specific about that. That's one thing I've learned that the Lord has saved your Jesus Christ. So silence every voice that is not of him. And then you'll probably hear the Holy Spirit. And how does the false Jesus make you feel? How can you tell it's a false Jesus? Well, I mean, I haven't actually come up against the false Jesus, but I've seen him working with somebody who is a Christian witch. And she says to me, and she's a good friend of mine. I'm not gossiping about her. She's more than happy for me to talk about this. She's a good friend of mine. She's learning Jesus. She's still in witchcraft. She still loves witchcraft. And she said, Jesus is helping me with my spells. And I said, girl, that ain't Jesus. I don't know who you're working with, but that ain't Jesus. Because in the Bible, which I'm not interested, listen, in the Bible, it says, you do not have anything to do with your cult, witchcraft, you know, divination, that is not Jesus. She said, well, look at this. She started praying. And she said, God, God, God. And I said, not say Jesus. And she said, God, Jesus, in the name of Jesus, and her spell went out in front of me. Her candle went. So I said, listen, whatever you think you're working with, that's not Jesus. I think a lot of people think they're working with Mary Magdalene as well in witchcraft. No, you're not. I don't, I hate to be the bearer of bad news. No, you're not. And with my witch girls, I say to them, look, you can come to me and talk to me. There is no judgment here. I've seen it all. I've been and done it. I've had the same blinding, but I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not going to sit there and say, oh, yeah, maybe that is Jesus. No, Jesus is not involved in the devil's work. And there is a fence. People like to sit on, but the devil owns the fence. So you have to choose a side. The hard part, I think for Christians, and especially Luke and I have been in church a long time since we were kids, is there's a lot of smiling and kindness that's very manipulative, right? And I love, I kind of like think that's why voices like Jordan Peterson have become big in this era, because they just, they're very blunt. They're not agreeable. They just say the truth. And make your bed. Yeah. If you've been on this other side of things, like you have a little bit of that, you know, UK spirit in you, where you're just like, I'm just going to say how it is, and I don't care how your feelings are. It's not that I'm a jerk or a mean. It's just that Christianity has become so patty cake and so PG and people can't talk about the levels of darkness. But anyone involved in fighting back on the occult is like, it's dark. Sometimes it's really depressing. Oh, you honestly, I was not prepared for the level of spiritual attack coming out of the occult. I thought it was going to be okay. I found Jesus, let me switch it up. You have to change your mindset. You have to change your whole life, your theories. I had to throw out half my house as you can imagine all my witchcraft, my books. And there is something that I've noticed that recently at work, the legalistic spirits is what I came up against. Now, I know witchcraft, I know demons, but I was not ready for this one. This was a beast in the demonic realm that had to convince me that I was still a witch that I hadn't been saved. I had not been baptized. And it was working through Christians to attack me and still does. You guys are on my page. You see often me fighting off these legalists and whatnot. But this is huge. This spirit is massive. And I deliberately wore this tonight because usually I would wear my white Christian verse jumper. And I said, no, I'm going to be myself. And just for simply wearing black, the way I'm wearing it, I get called a witch. And the Bible says do not judge on outward appearances. And yet that seems to be something that everybody's doing. I mean, you guys, you know, you're like me, you're a bit more in the alternative way. I am not a sparkly, you know, Christian by any means. But I really want to challenge what people are judging. There are heavily tattooed guys out there that are out there preaching Jesus, people with piercings, people like me, that I am more of a Gothic Christian. People say I have a dark energy. I don't actually, I just have dark clothes, dark eyes and dark hair. But that's where the eye is not seeing the spirit. So I did this on purpose, actually, to see if people were so, you know, she's witchy. I get it a lot. But I do, I get it a lot. Just poking the bear, Jess. I love it. Yeah, I like to get a rise out of them. I can't lie. And I'm working on it. Men got to work on it. And yeah, I, yes, I am very blunt about Jesus because I've experienced him. I am a full believer that heaven is real. Hell is real. I've seen the spiritual dynamics at work. I've been a witch. I've seen the darkness. I know how easy it is to attack you spiritually. I know how easy it is. All I need is your picture and your full name. And I've got you where I want you. You know, in my witch days anyway, now I'll pray for you. Jess, can you talk about that real quick? I wanted to ask a little question I was going to ask, and you kind of went there. Yeah. One of the other things that sort of is being mainstreamed either through media, TV, even like an event that happened the week weekend before we had our blurry con at the factory, is this idea of mediums, right? And psychics. And it's kind of, not kind of, it feels as though a lot of it's been white, it's been whitewashed. It's like... Well, people know there's like other forces at work, but they don't really know. They don't really know the rules of how it all works. Yeah. And talk about how that works and sort of what, from your standpoint, because that's, and I think it's very important what you said at the beginning, like there are people that have giftings, like spiritual giftings. And if you have a gifting in prophecy, people have gifting in healing, these kind of things are God-given gifts, but they get hijacked, right? Because the New Age says, come this way, the gates are wide open, right? Or people get manipulative with them. Well, the church is kind of like, I don't know what to do with you. Like, unless you're charismatic, they're kind of like, hey, that's not real, right? So how does that all work when it comes to, as you say, y'all need your picture and your name, and I can, how does that work as, so people understand the workings of this? Because I think it's an easy trap too, because it's just like entertainment, or it's just fun to go see a fortune teller. I'm not saying we do this, but you hear these things, right? And it's just, or you have friends that are professing Christians that are like, well, I just went and saw a psychic because I wanted some answers, et cetera, whatever. And it's like, that's a witch, but I know that, you know that. Everyone here knows that. But yeah, you talk about how that works. And then sort of the spirits, you see, you also say you see spirits and demons. How does that, does that happen when you're giving readings? Does that happen when you are getting information? How does that all work? Yeah, this is the bit the enemy doesn't want you to know. And that is how easy it is to attack you, right? Christians, I'm quite surprised that they are going for psychic reasons. I am shocked. I only ever had one Christian come to me in a retreat that I did, a spiritual retreat where we did readings and spell work. And I never knew she was a Christian. I never even knew anything about her. But I used to know things about people by looking at you. Okay, so just your eyes. All I needed was your eyes. And your familiar spirit that's followed you around since you were a kid has gathered information against you and it feeds it to me. Now, to me, that spirit would be your spirit guide, which is why you see medium saying, let me connect with your spirit guide. What they're saying is your familiar spirit, your spiritual stalker, and they follow us around. So basically, when this lady came, I couldn't read her blank. I was like, I can bear in mind, I had a two year wait in this from how accurate I was. I used to get names, dates, you name it, I was never wrong, never wrong. And I couldn't read this woman. And I said, I'm so sorry, this is quite embarrassing. I can't even get your name. And I later found out that she herself wasn't a Christian, but she had parents praying over her. There'd be Christians, and I thought, ah, I could physically feel something going not her. I was like, okay, all right, no worries. So, you know, when psychics and mediums, they're not doing anything to hurt you intentionally, they actually think they're helping you believe it or not. They're not deliberately, you know, trying to curse your life or anything like that. Again, this is the bit they don't want you to know. So your familiar spirit would have seen your first relationship would have seen the traumas you've gone through and above that would have seen key elements in your life that if when it tells me that key element, you trust me, ah, Jess just got it right. So she knows what she's talking about. She's connected to the divine, right? And then you put your trust in me. And then something will speak through me to curse your life. This is what's going to happen to you. And then you accept the curse. Boom, gotcha. That's it. That's you done. So that's why people go back to psychics again, because it's like, oh, it came to it. Well, of course it did. You accepted the curse. So it played out. Well, as as a reader, are you, are you feeling like these things are talking through you or are you getting that information in sort of downloaded in your brain and then you're speaking and as you say, how does that? Yeah, when I was one, I'm not anymore. Yeah, but I love exposing this stuff. This is this is all, you know, well, it's just so real. So it's almost like a familiar spirit hands you the papers. And it gives me a full down life of your life. Yeah. It's like, okay, it's like a invisible doctor that's been following around right now notes, taking track of, he's this way, he's that way. Here you go. And then the person on the other end, they can't see no, that any of this has been handed over and like the the unseen realm, I guess. You know, it's ancient times and you're looking good. Maybe you have a coat of many colors back in the Bible times. Where would you get one today, Luke? Well, unless you're bigfoot and you grow your own cashmere sweater, Queens is the place that got everyday essentials that we love with quality last. I'm actually wearing a Quinn shirt right now. Let's look at these things have survived a number of washes. They don't shrink. It's premium, premium material. They've got light cashmere sweaters, short sleeve, Mongolian cashmere polos, linen bottoms and shorts, teas and 100% Pima cotton and European Jersey linen. I got the 100% Pima cotton here. We're just fully cottonized Nate. The cashmere is 100% Mongolian, the same stuff that luxury brands use. 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I've physically seen someone's nan manifest. My brother died a couple years back just randomly when the hospital and died. He was only like nearly 40. And he used to sit in the front seat of the car with me, spirit. You know? Yeah. So that was actually a demon when I asked it to show itself broke my heart. But yeah, it was not my brother. So yeah, these things will disguise themselves as your ancestors, your spirit guys, but actually know their demons that have followed you around for a long time. And they know about you. They know about your family and they feed it. So when I spoke back in my readings, I never knew what I was saying. I had to write it down sometimes. I'd say to people, write down what I'm saying to you because I won't remember it afterwards. And I would channel it through. Yeah, but the people doing this are gifted, God given gifts, but not with the psychic stuff. This is where the enemy comes in to get it, right? So these people have an ability to see or sense into the spiritual realm, which I believe that I ever going to be in deliverance, ecstasy. I don't know. They were anointed for that purpose, 100% that that kind of gift in that. The enemy can't create. He can't gift anything. Only God creates. So when I see these girls and I'm like, yeah, you can see, I'm a seeer, I see, but the enemy gets there first because the church doesn't say, oh, by the way, this is something that you may be able to do. And this is how we can give it to God. The enemy gets in and starts bringing all this stuff. And then all of a sudden, you're a psychic medium, which in none of those things, you are prophetic daughter of God, more than likely. And me, I had to humble myself and say, God, if this gift ain't from you, take it away. I said, take it away. I know my whole business has gone. Take it away. And he did. And now I can see things. I can see demons around people, not all the time. Sometimes I can see them. I can see things about people's health sometimes when God will give me a warning. But again, it doesn't come on tap like in psychic, you know, when you're psychic, it's there like, boom, but you download God, I see him, I hear him, you know, and the way he speaks to me, people think I'm talking nonsense. But that's fine. I've been this way since I was a kid. I know what I experienced. But there are so many people out there that feel the same. And they feel like they can't speak to anyone because they're crazy, especially in the Christian community. I mean, look how I got treated. I got called a witch straight away. I got ostracized straight away, you know, and because I'm not scared to talk about the fact that some people are actually very gifted, but the church doesn't talk about it enough. So the devils, they're like, yeah, come here, I've got it. Let me ask you about that, Jess, because I think I found interesting with a lot of folks that come out of like the psychic space or the astrology space is that when they get saved, they seem to default all the way to one side saying like, well, nothing's supernatural. Like if you have a supernatural worldview when it comes to the Bible, Yeah, they're extreme personality. It's like it just the pendulum swing so far, we've seen this with like certain folks who won't name on the show here, but have come out against like some of the work of Dr. Michael Heiser, for example, because he's sort of reinserting the supernatural into a very supernatural book, the Bible, but to folks that have come out of the occult or come out of witchcraft or religion will go after them. Well, it's just like hard no to anything supernatural, which is really ironic to me. Someone is an outsider being like, well, that's what you trafficked in. So if there's bad stuff, isn't there good stuff? I mean, how do we, what are your thoughts on that? Because obviously you've stayed and been like, hey, listen, the supernatural is real. I'm not going to shy away from it. I'll talk about it. I'll expose it. Whereas I think other folks who have come out of similar spaces of you are like, that's dangerous. All of it's dangerous. Don't touch any of anything. Don't talk about it. Don't don't even bring up the supernatural parts of the Bible. I know what's happened to them because it almost happened to me. What you're saying, you are very correct. So when you come out of witchcraft, you get so scared of going back into witchcraft or doing anything to do with the occult ever again, that you completely shut off anything to do with the supernatural, which like you say is wild. You've experienced it. You've seen it. How can it now just not exist? Right? So it nearly happened to me and I nearly, I nearly had a religious spirit into me and I have seen a few people come out of the occult. Like you say, they go from one extreme and then all of a sudden, they're in the other, but they're also berating people in the occult, tearing people down in the occult, condemning them to hell. So you know it's a religious spirit straight away. It's like, whoa. Okay. And that was, you know, as soon as I started to feel that come up in me, I was like, whatever that is. Yeah. In the name of Jesus. And for some reason by God's grace, I did not get the religious spirit, but then the religious spirit spotted me and went absolutely not. No, you're not supposed to be there. You're supposed to be here. It's like I escaped something, you know, because if you look at it, people say, Oh, I'm aware child. Cause I talk about the paranormal. I talk about the darkness and stuff. I'm aware child. I'm against Jesus. If you look at my actual content, all of my content is talking about Lord Jesus Christ. I have baptized. There is no part of my content that promotes witchcraft. I actively rebuke it. So it's like, I wonder what's making you call me a witch? That's strange. Religious spirit, because there becomes a point and it's all fear related. I know that demons feast on fear. So when you come out of your cult, you experience Jesus, you're like, I can never have anything to do with that again. Shut it off and then full on religious spirit comes in. And that's when they start with all of that. So the supernatural is very real. I feel really sad for them. Actually, I feel really sad for them because you can see it's gone from one extreme to another. Shouldn't be like that. There should be freeing Christ. There should be no fear in Jesus. There should be no condemnation in Jesus yet they condemn so many. No judgment yet they judge everybody. No name calling. And you can see a religious spirit at work because there's no fruit. I think it's a richie, the barbernate. I think this is what reminds me also of Richie who did, if you know from him at all, we had him on an interview. It seems like a theme and you're kind of speaking this out that if you have a conversion to Christ and you're on fire and you have a lesson, a lesson, a savory past that the first people out the gate that are going to tell you that you don't have a real conversion, you're not a real Christian, you're not doing it right. You can't do it that way. You have to do it this way. Yeah. Want to pour water on that fire are sadly, are Christians. Well, a good metaphor in my mind is like a crab bucket and all the churches like in one bucket and anyone who tries to crawl out like, instead of seeing themselves as I'm in my own bucket and I've got to use Jesus to get out of my own prison that I put myself in. And there's all these other spirits are going to manipulate you, but the church seems to kind of team up together and they attack the Richie, the barber or people like you that are like honest and open and like, this is what I've come out of and my story can be inspiring. But what kind of spirits do you think attack Christians specifically? From what I've seen, if the enemy can't get you because you're covered in the blood of Jesus, the enemy will try to get you through holier than thou. So obviously something I've come to terms with and I'm very open about my journey. I still swear a lot. I still wear pure black. I still smoke, for example, I am not a completely sanctified Christian. I've been with Jesus two years. I was in witchcraft for 15. It's a miracle I'm even here, let alone, you know, you know, I am not the pristine Christian. And one thing I've noticed is that once you kind of start finding Jesus, people forget who killed Jesus, the Pharisees. So it wasn't witches attacking Jesus. It wasn't, you know, people that were alcoholics or addicts, they weren't the ones attacking Jesus. They had their snider marks, but it was the Pharisees that took Jesus out. And people are missing this. They're missing that this is coming from inside the house. The call is inside, you know, like, it threw me because when I come up against this group, they were calling me a witch. They were making videos about me calling me a witch with no context, you know, just, oh, she's a witch. And it came like a little group thing against me. And I thought, this is interesting, because I don't even know you. I've never even spoken to you, you know, and you're calling me a witch. And one common thing that came out every time is that I just slipped into the Christian creator world. And I thought, what a strange thing to say. It's almost like gatekeeping Jesus. Oh, no, you can't talk about him because you're not perfect like us. They come at me for not going to church. Now, what they don't know, I'm not against church. I moved house not too long ago. So I haven't found the right church yet. I also don't have a denomination. So because I'm not Catholic, I'm not Protestant, I don't, I'm not interested in religion. I follow Jesus Christ. And that's me. That's good. I follow that Bible and I follow Jesus. And there's all these wars about, oh, no, Protestant is correct. Oh, and there's an attack on Catholicism. And it's like, whoa, why is everybody fighting? You're all supposed to be following Jesus. So people need to understand that yes, witchcraft is a threat massive, which I'm obviously here to warn you about. But the one that nearly took me out, the one that nearly sent me back to the occult was the religious spirits, because they came to me and said, you're a witch, God doesn't want you. You shouldn't have a platform because you don't go to church. Literally, they were the words, you shouldn't have a platform because you don't go to church. You shouldn't have a voice. You shouldn't be saying your story. Right. And I thought, well, has God sent these girls to tell me that I shouldn't be doing this? Yeah. I went into a hole. I went into a hole. I was like, and then it dawned on me. Would Jesus have said that to me? Absolutely not. No. So I said to God, look, God, if you want me to stop all this, take my page out. And what happened, it got bigger and bigger because I worked with the Holy Spirit, you see. And this is something I think people need to understand. Religious spirits killed Jesus. Yeah. And they are on a really strange mission that heaven has space for everybody. I don't get it. Like you're going, yes, but that person can go to and surely we're supposed to be spreading the gospel, spreading the good news. Jesus sat with sinners. He's sat with the people like I get all the time. Why are you talking to witches? Why is your page a witches? I'm not here for you. You're black times. You're saved. I'm here for her. The one doing the wedgie board. I'm here to come and get her. You know? Well, the thief on the cross is a tough one, Jasper, those people then, right? Because he hadn't sworn to a church, hasn't repeated their credo, hasn't become a member, hasn't done the things that the religious people want them to do. And God says, because he believed, Jesus said, you can be with me today. Boy's famous, he's the last convert before. So how does this work in a practical sense? Do these Christians have multiple spirits going on at once? I mean, if they have the Holy Spirit, is there other things coming? How does everyone play nicely in the sandbox and keep the person attacking on a mission to attack? Are they Christians or are they? Well, that's a tough one. I don't want to judge someone's salvation, but yeah. Yeah. It's a real tough one because I would never question someone's relationship with Jesus Christ. That's their relationship with Jesus. It is not for us to question. But what I do kind of have my discernment about is why are you questioning my relationship with Jesus? And why are you questioning whether or not I'm saved? Who are you to say whether or not I'm saved? And it's kind of like taking the role of Christ and saying, you're not saved. You're not doing this, you're not doing that right. You're talking about the demonic, you're talking about witchcraft, like no, no, you are of the devil. I love that they say that you are of the devil, you're the devil's work. And it's like, hold on a second, Jesus never said that to anybody. Jesus never once condemned a sinner in the Bible, not once. They are only people that he flipped tables on with the Pharisees. So again, what kind of worries me about people at the moment is they're coming out of the occult, or they're coming out of the occult or whatever, and you're a liar, you know, when you first find Jesus, you're like, I'm free, I'm free. And then all of a sudden, this Susan, we'll call her Susan, you're not dressed right. I remember the first thing someone said to me is, your top's not right. I'm a big girl. Yeah. Sometimes it's hard to put things in the right places. She said, you're not dressed right for a Christian. I work well, blur me next. So I've not had a new wardrobe in a while. Calm down. Now I didn't know about modesty and Christianity then, you know, I was quite confident before the three kids. So first it was the dress sense, then it was the cussing, then it was the smoking at church. Somebody pulled me on smoking. And I boys, I kid you not, I went to a church, I opened up to them and I said, look, I'll come out of the occult. I like your church. And they done a full seminar that day on witchcraft. And everybody looked at me and said how hard it is to get out of witchcraft. And I have females around me. I am not kidding you. I never went back. It's crazy. Well, we've seen it on our show, we bring somebody on and then they get attacked by our listeners and our fans, or we'll bring on like, we brought Hardie on and Hardy's like, I don't think every musician did a deal with the devil to be a big musician. And everyone's like, Oh, of course you would say that. And it's like, which is funny though, because it's not what you would say if you made a deal. Of course. It's funny. And I say, and Hardy did, I just think that is ironic. But I feel sad for the people that come on our show when our fans will turn on them. And I don't even know if they're our fans, but they're people in our channels that are just like easily attacked these people. It seems like people who come out of the New Age, they develop, they start a channel where they call everything occult. Every single person in Hollywood is a part of the secret society. I'm like, I don't think it's just like there's layers of the occult that you're going through, where it takes years and years and years to get to the, there's layers there where there are some people in Hollywood or musicians who have done all the rituals to get where they are, but to blanket them, all of them, as if everyone's done that. And then there's this other side of the church, it's the purity culture, right? Where like, every single thing we don't like about society, we have to make a video about it and call it out. Well, of course, they're going to be abording babies. Of course, they're going to be doing dark stuff. That's what the world does, but then they build this huge channel, purity people who are just shooting arrows. So it's like, everything's occult, everything has to be pure. And there's just like this crossfire. And it's so hard to do life as a podcast somewhere in the middle or media in the middle of like, hey, we don't have all the answers. Let's have some humility. What are we trying to do? Are we trying to just judge everybody? Is that the point? And it seems like there's massive channels of judgment. We just judge everything. Can you speak to that a little bit? Sorry. Because I know you deal with that. Yes, I do. And I did a bit of studying on this, right? And because I'm a psychotherapist as well, I like my facts. And one of the things that I'll obviously with Christianity, I studied it so hard to disprove it that I couldn't. And obviously, I'm on fire for God, Jesus is Jesus is king, that I will never dispute Jesus is king. So I started doing a bit of digging into why there's this big online war between the Christians at the moment. And what it is, everybody is living in the one thing that God told them not to do multiple times in the Bible, fear. He told us, time and time again, you are not given a spirit of fear. You're not given a spirit of paranoia. You are not to judge each other. You're to come to each other personally. So why is everybody rippling each other apart publicly? Strange, right? And Christians shouldn't be doing that. They should absolutely not be doing that publicly, shaming other Christians. I thought, oh, this is interesting. Well, I came down to it. And it's one passage in the Bible that God showed me that everybody is taken and the enemy is twisting in fear. And it says, false prophets wolves in sheep's clothing, people have turned their attention away from Jesus so much, they've become addicted to social media, that now they are literally spending every minute of their time trying to figure out who is a false prophet. Don't be deceived. Mark the beast. You know, they're taking their eyes off of Jesus. Now Jesus said, don't take your eyes off me, because then the enemy gets in. I think at the moment, all of the Christians, God, love them all, God bless them all, everyone's under spiritual attack, and it's going to come in different ways. I didn't know that mine was going to be up against religious spirits, but you learn something new every day. But the reason mine is religious spirits is because I go against corruption. I've always gone against corruption my whole life. I have no problem speaking out about something that's wrong. And I stand alone. You will never see a big crowd next to me. I always stand alone. So the enemy will use what he can to attack where your strength is. So people that are now, you know, tearing each other down are being defacted. Actually, their voices are needed. Why are you not sharing the gospel? Why are you not sharing Jesus? The good news that, yes, that person's a sinner. Yes, that person's wearing the wrong thing. Yes, that person says something. That's not the message. The message is Jesus paid the price on the cross. And to say otherwise is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. His blood is sufficient. And his sacrifice was he covered everything. We are asked and we are told to follow him. And that's what we're told to do. Nobody is going to be perfect. That's why there's a sanctification process. We are continuously cleansed. So at the moment, I think all the big Christian creators are fighting each other also to prove that they're not false prophets. They're scared of being branded as false prophets. Let me quickly accuse someone else that I'm not accused. You can see it working. And one thing I've come to notice is that people come online, they attack me through a multitude of things. Usually it's the way I look, the way I talk. I get called a false Christian because I'm not legalistic. I'm not, I'm not religious. I haven't got a denomination. I haven't got a church. But God is not present in buildings. I'm sure that's a Bible verse in mortar or something. He's present in the people. We are the church and I'm looking for church. I'm going to find one. I've asked God, find me the right church. But to judge a person and say, well, you don't go to church. You're not a real Christian. That's wild. Jesus didn't have a religion. He was, he didn't even have a religion. He came and he engaged the good news. So I'm not saying don't be religious. All I'm saying is, please, please, please take the log from your own eye before you start pointing out the speck in someone else's. And I, as somebody as well, like you boys, I have a fixation on the darkness, the supernatural. It entices me in some ways. And I've come to realize that's because God is trying to use me to destroy it. So there are ways that God is using people to actually be more aware of these things. And not everybody is. And that's okay. That doesn't mean someone's demonic. That doesn't mean someone's a witch. That doesn't mean someone's anti Jesus. It just means that God gives us all different anointings, different abilities, different paths. And not everyone's going to understand that. Yeah. I mean, I think the topics get heavy when it comes to spirits or comes to big foot aliens. There's species of these things almost. There's like, and it's complicated. And I think like G.I. Joe said, knowing is half the battle, right? How do you defeat something if you don't know what it is? Because it sometimes feels like when it comes to the creepy, creepy, blurry creatures out there, there's like amphibious creatures. And then there's land ones. And like, what about spirits? Because people say there's elemental spirits. And I'm like, what the heck does that mean? You know, like, and do they have names? Do they have origins? Were they like a dead giant that spirits still living around? And it's haunting people? Where does like, what are these names come from? What are these character traits of some of these spirits? Like, as someone who's seen behind the veil, what do you think? How do you classify this stuff? Well, it's quite shocking that a lot of Christians don't believe in the supernatural or supernatural creatures. Giants are mentioned in the Bible. I'm sure dragons are mentioned in the Bible. And I'm pretty sure unicorns even mentioned somewhere in the Bible. Now, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm almost. Oh, they will. They will correct you. Yeah. Correct me. It's not in the Bible. I will never say it isn't. I'm almost certain I double checked that a unicorn was somewhere mentioned in a religious text, right? Like you say, giants, all of these stuff, all these things were mentioned. Why does it get so and something else that the kind of sorry, I know it's a tiny bit off topic here, the Chinese calendar. Again, I don't follow other ways, but the Chinese calendar has every animal on there that we know to be real. And then it has the dragon. So there are things like that, that dragons have been painted in medieval artwork that's been preserved. So, you know, I think at some point, the same way that we believe other historical texts, we do need to be open minded to the fact that actually it's been spotted, it's been documented, it's been painted, or possibly even mentioned in the Bible if I'm wrong about the unicorn. I'm sorry. You're right. You're right, Jess. The King James version, I had to look this up when you said this, the word unicorn appears nine times in the older English translations in the Old Testament. Now, some Hebrew, modern Biblical scholarship agrees that the word maybe isn't about a unicorn, one horned horse, but maybe a powerful wild animal. But regardless, this word should have nine times in the Old Testament. Hey, we got unicorns in the Old Testament. There's a lot of weird. Well, what about, okay, so like we know that, like, the second part of my question is, but the spirit realm seems to be dominated by lots of different types of creatures as well. What do you know about that? Like, if I have a spirit attacking me specifically, what's its origin? How do I know it's affecting me as a Christian? I would be lying if I said I knew it all. I don't. I can only tell you what I do know. So, like I've said to you guys before, I have experienced mermaids. I used to do spells with mermaids. I saw a mermaid. I saw one once when I was about four or five, and I saw another one when I was around 15. Tell that story, Jess. You see mermaids when you're doing, how does that even work? Yeah. Yeah. So I used to do a mermaid fertility spell. It was one of my biggest spells. And I think I was around 15, 16 years old, and I saw a mermaid, but I only saw like the top. And the best way I can explain it, it had pitch black eyes. It was bald, had orange, straggly hair, had the widest set nose. And I saw obviously a tiny little tail. It wasn't like a big fin. It's like a tiny tail at the end. And for so long, I thought I was crazy. And then I started to see other videos of it. And I was like, that's why I saw that. I saw that. Is that mermaid? Where was this, Jess? You couldn't believe it if I told you. An absolute dive called Southend. You know, Southend in Kent, Essex. It's not a great place anymore. But yeah, I saw it Southend. And so I was in the water. I mean, explain it. Yeah, it was in the water. Like I was literally like, I was sitting on the pier, but you have like these broken bits of like wood. And I know people don't call me mad, but I've been called mad the worst things. And I saw this. I thought, but I was calling on it. I was calling on the mermaid, the sirens and don't even get me started on how many tails there are sailors and mermaids and the sirens song and things like that. And this thing came out of the water. And I thought that's really ugly fish or I don't know what that is. But yeah, I saw it. I saw the top of its head. I saw the hair long orange, rusty looking hair. And yeah, I'll never forget that. But I thought I was crazy for quite some time until I started seeing other people's videos. And I was like, what do you think? What do you think? They are like, they think they're more of like a flesh and blood creature. Like we have people experience bigfoot like ripping trees out and throwing rocks and that kind of stuff. Then of course, disappearing as we talk about on the show. But do you think it's purely spiritual or do you think there's some sort of in between with that? No, I think there's an in between. And again, I've seen a lot of Christian creators basically called aliens, demons and stuff like that, which I get what they're saying. I understand. However, we have to remember that, you know, God created a lot, a lot, right? And there are some species and I mean, how many species of animals do we have? You know, we have things like Area 51 and stuff like that. There's been so many documentations of things. And I think to deny it would be ignorant. To deny that these creatures exist. You know, I mean, how many UFO science, how many alien science, bigfoot? Yeah, I mean, bigfoot, I've not seen too much about bigfoot, but I've seen videos with people in the, I never know how to pronounce it. It begins with an A. It's like a forest or appellation. Yeah, appellations. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot that goes on there. And I personally can hear like when I listen to the videos, I can hear the talking, the chattering of the spirits and stuff. So there is stuff going on. So no, I don't think it's as cut and dry as oh, this is of God or this is of the devil. I think there was a lot of things on earth that we don't know about. A lot of things. And I think God knows and we're going to find out in the end, definitely. But I think to be completely ignorant to it is dangerous because then you're ignorant to the truth. And then obviously when the mark of the beast comes on the antichrist comes, how are you going to know? AI is coming out now. Something I've been talking about. If a video comes of something and it's a demon, how are you going to know that's real or AI? This is why we need this sermon as well, you know. And the more you get into these rabbit holes and obviously you've been completely immersed on the other side. So you're, you kind of have to bring Christians up to speed. And I think a lot of times the topics we talk about are like, hey, you know, demons are just spirits. It's actually a very generic term. And there's many different types of those. And then there's all, there's a whole class. I mean, we had a guy that had a near-death experience and he said he goes through the second heaven and that's where the false Jesus is hanging out. And it's like, what? There's a whole host of false Jesus is hanging in the second heaven. They're just partying. And it sounds, it's just, it's more and more complicated every day when you, when you want to know, and why, why is it important? You know, why is it important to distinction? Because I think a lot of people are saying this stuff doesn't exist. So they don't have to address it because it makes them, like you said, spirit of fear. Well, if it exists, then maybe the thing I believe isn't true. And it's really a personal quest of, of fear. It's not like, hey, it doesn't matter if it's out there or not. It's probably trying to harm us. So let's help people because a lot of people email us who've, who have human trafficking of the fourth kind, they're being abducted and they're praying and they're being tortured and they don't have anyone to talk to, but a couple of podcasts hosts who will believe them. I'm like, that's sad that you can't go to their pastor and say, can we get the church together? I'm being abducted by aliens and I need help. And these prayers aren't working and something's going on. And people are like, oh, you're crazy or no, we don't do that on Sundays. We're just interested in PG Christianity. Sorry. You know, find somewhere else to go. And then you have the, the trolls online that are saying it's all demons. It doesn't exist. Like you're, you're trying to lead the church astray. It's like, no, I'm being abducted against my will. And I think that we've heard so many of those stories like, yeah, they people, this craft shows up and it's taking people and they're doing genetic experiments on these things. And it feels like a huge problem just like, regular human trafficking is a big problem. And you have half the church that just denies it even is a thing. And I think that's dangerous. I think that's sad because I think people are unaware of how dark it goes. And what do we, what do we do about that? Do we pray against these UFOs? I don't know. Maybe, maybe we need a strategy against them. But the biggest part is actually proving that they're a thing. They're real. They're not a typical spirit and they're doing something nefarious. And so I think awareness is what blurry creatures does a lot. This stuff is happening. Somebody you know is being abducted on a nightly basis. It's, the math says that. Well, I think, you know what, being able, and I, and I will stand on business with this, right? And the whole point of Jesus is freedom. Yeah. Freedom. We are given free will. When God creates us, he gave us free will for a reason. He did not say, you are going to love me and worship me. No, he loved you enough that he gives you free will. Now he gives us his incredible intelligent minds. I see Christians saying that psychology is demonic and I'm like, are you kidding me? Like we are literally given the ability to understand the human mind. Like there are so many wonders of God. God is not confined. God is huge. Like he is magnificent. The things that he's created, the things that we're able to sense and do as human beings, we should not be confined in ourselves. You know, the whole point that Jesus came was to set us free, freedom to be able to talk about these things. Like you guys host these, these chats. And I think it's so important that you do because even if it is a demon, for example, somebody talked about being, you know, abducted, even if it is a demon, somebody could be watching the show who is aware that that's a demon and help them at least. But if you don't talk about these things, how is anybody going to, you know, get this out? I used to work in a mental health hospital as well. And a lot of the time they would say to me, like I've had experiences with Jesus and they get sectioned. The one name that is mentioned the most in these places is Jesus. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. And then obviously spiritual psychosis comes into things as well. But people aren't having the discussions to actually know what's going on. It's being shut down so fast. Oh, it's demonic. Don't talk about it. Why? Know your enemy. Know your enemy. I think the Bible, God actually said a lack of knowledge will be our downfall. And I'm not, obviously, I'm not a knowledgeable Christian in that sense. I've only been a Christian for two years. I don't know too much. But what I do know is that God gave us the ability to think freely. He gave us the ability to explore things. It always comes back to Jesus. Everything comes back to Jesus. He is underneath it all. But there are so many wonders of the world. There are so many things we don't know. And I can't wait for the day that God sits us all down and goes, Bigfoot, huh? Tell me, God, whatever he is. But, you know, and I think a lot of people struggle with this. They come to Christianity and then all of a sudden they can't watch fantasy films anymore. They can't, you know, and I'm like, why? Why can't you? It's demonic. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, let's not get it all twisted now. And I'm also hated because I refuse to brand everything as demonic. Because if you brand everything as demonic, then nothing's demonic. So I prefer to focus on what is actually demonic. There are of course things that lead people astray. There are of course things that open doors. But I like to focus on what craft is demonic, Ouija boards is demonic, communicating with spirits is demonic, welcoming Satan, all that is demonic. Then you have science, then you have blurry creatures, then you have other things over here that may not be in the Bible or in church that week. But okay, this is interesting. Why are you not allowed? This is why I'm not a fan of certain things, because I like my facts. I'm somebody I like to study. I like to broaden my knowledge, not false knowledge or forbidden knowledge. But I am interested and I have seen things in my witch days. I will never dispute ghosts or demons or mermaids. I have seen things. If I was crazy, then I'm sure God will tell me that at the end. Oh no, that was a hallucination, by the way, Jess. Okay, thanks for letting me know. But God will tell me that in the end. So we do need to have these conversations. Definitely. That's why I loved you guys for years, because you're not scared to have the conversations. And the internet should be used for open conversations. It's the Brits that actually show the Americans what a real witch is in the wonderful satire of Monty Python. That's right. She weighs the same as a duck than she's made of wood. But that's your point, right? Like everything's a witch. And then they're like, well, what makes her a witch? There's nothing's a witch if everything's a witch. This is what we talk about. We grew up making jokes about that, but it is a state. The movie is kind of a satire, an example of how we've gotten on social media. She's a witch, burner. Well, what'd she do? She looks like a witch, you know? And I've seen this, like people who realize like they get into health, and then they go all the way to the extreme of health where they don't even, they don't even enjoy their life. Yes. Yes. And you're spot on, like, freedom, freedom. That's why Jesus came. He gave us freedom to not live in fear. He gave us freedom to, and I think a lot of people miss the fact that Bible is for us. It's not to be used on other people. The Bible is for self reflection. The Bible is to be what Jesus called us to be, to follow him. The Bible is not a tool to hold at someone's head, holier than thou. I'm better than you. I'm going to heaven and you're not. You are called to love your neighbor. And loving your neighbor is saying, okay, we may not see eye to eye. You may not be as holy as me, but I love you and I will pray for you. That's enough. You haven't got to start cursing people out and whatever else. It's, I just wish my mission really, and this is why I like you guys as well, is that I want to see more authenticity online. I'm so tired of, hi, what's up guys? And it's all pristine and smiley, like you say. And I'm like, can someone come online and say that they messed up big time this week? Can someone say that they sinned, please? Can someone say that they're having trouble here and God? Can someone be honest? And I'm comfortable having those conversations as well, because I think people are starving for honesty and authenticity. I agree. It's sort of a hard medium to get the truth out. I think the church is, you know, it's a system and it does that a lot. It has a PR, it has, it focuses on the public relations aspect of what it's doing. And then a podcast is easier or just a channel to be on. Like, hey, you know, it's a better avenue to be honest, but it's not perfect. What would you say, and like, you know, the things you've gleaned and learned over the years was like, the one experience that kind of changed your perspective on maybe the supernatural realm or the fact that this stuff isn't, this stuff is real. Because I think there's a lot of skeptical, I don't know if there's a spirit of skepticism, but you don't have it. That's for sure. I'm getting more skeptical as the show goes on. Let's be real. But in the beginning, it seems like you're excited to get into some of these rabbit holes. But what do you think, what do you think your, the moment for you was? Well, for me, only one comes to mind. And when I saw how powerful the name Jesus is, or you can say God, you can say Lord, you can say whatever. But if you say the name Jesus, all hell breaks loose. Everyone goes wild, whether that's praise God, or I don't want to hear that. And I remember being a witch and hearing about Jesus, and I would get irritated to my core, like my skin was itching from the inside. Shut up, don't talk about Jesus Christ. And this is why I say to people, you know when somebody's a witch, because you're not really able to talk about Jesus. Okay, you can talk about God, you can talk about other things. But if somebody is operating in a demonic spirit, merely mentioning Jesus is enough to unsettle them. Right? Yes, they talk about witches in the churches and stuff. I don't know how much of that I believe. I don't even know how many of those are actually witches, because one, I don't see why a witch would go in the church. They ate churches. I wouldn't, I wouldn't have gone in a church, you know. And secondly, if there are witches in Christianity, then they are doing something to mask that. They must have learned a new form of magic because a real, genuine practitioner of witchcraft will be very uncomfortable talking about Jesus for one. And two, would not be able to say that he is Lord. Because then their magic would be nullified. So in answer to your question, knowing the power of Jesus, the blood of Jesus Christ covers everything, every hex, every curse, you name it, there is nothing that gets past the blood of Jesus. And I've seen it in action. I've had death spells done on me for goodness sake. And I was just sitting there eating digestives. I was non-missile because I was covered in blood of Jesus. So like, yeah, my turning point for me, I've seen that side of things. And I've seen the light. But yes, I believe in big foot. Yes, I believe in mermaids. Yes, I believe in fairies. Are they all demons? I don't know. I can't say yes or no. I think a vast majority of like, you know, the paranormal ghosts, I believe yes, are demons. I think they can absolutely create the image of, I don't know, Henry the Eight, both of them standing at a doorway, you know. But to say that everything is demonic, I think is dangerous because then it puts everything into this. Oh, you can't talk about this. It's like the devil. It's just like the ancient times, Luke. The tech is getting crazy. It's like we're at the Tower of Babel again, satellites, cars driving themselves. But somehow, with all this tech, our wireless bills aren't going down. And that's why we love what Mint Mobile is doing. They stripped the whole thing down. No storefronts, no weird fees, no contracts lurking in the shadows. They're just helping people with wireless starting at 15 bucks a month. Yeah, Mint Mobile is the way to say goodbye to overpaying for wireless high bills, random fees, and free perks that end up not being free and costing you more money on the back end. So stop overpaying for wireless just because it's always how it's been. 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So ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for 15 bucks a month. If you like your money, Mint Mobile's for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash blurry. That's mintmobile.com slash blurry up front payment for $45 for three months. Five gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month. New customer offer for first three months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Well, why are you on your phone then? Why are you on social media? Surely that's the one because God never intended for us to be staring at screens all the time. You know, so there's a fine line and I think people just need to be a lot more just accepting this is your life. This is who God is. Be open. Find him. Find Jesus. It'll be the best thing you ever do on a scene. Just freeze you and start enjoying the creation that God made. That is earth. And yes, there are big foot. Other things out there. You know, before us to study and trace down and film on a potato because all the footage is terrible for some reason. Yeah. Yeah. And digestives are biscuits for those American listeners. You know what I love about your story and it's such a great reminder is that Jesus loves the witches and he's pursuing them even as they as they spin and come to agreement with darkness and with demons. That's your shirt. He's pursuing and I love that. That's your ministry. I think this is a very important point and what you did is you said what you do is not for saving Christians is for saving those that have found themselves trapped in witchcraft and what an amazing God we serve that Jesus would, you know, would call us and pursue us even as, you know, as folks like yourself have made it come into agreement with the darkness and done things, you know, in those spaces that are forbidden from the Bible, which is says it doesn't walk away. Like you said, he sits with sinners and what I love about Christ is that he sits with sinners. Yes. But he always calls people to repentance. It's like, so go and sin no more. Right. It's that I see you. I'll sit with you where you are, but we're going to change this. Because you're going to get more freedom. You know, you're going to get more freedom in that. What would you say with what Luke you're saying? What would you say to the girl who's getting attacked or getting, she's starting to see, because you seem like tough. You could push through all the people that are trying to, you know, throw rocks, you knock you off the fence. It seems like you speak to a lot of people who are on the verge of slipping back into, well, I don't want to go towards the church because there's just a bunch of judgmental jerks. So I'm going to go back to my old life because it seems like a lot of people do that. Right. Yeah, they do. I've seen a lot of my girls that came out of witchcraft. They saw me get attacked by obviously quite big Christian, whatever. And they actually went back to their cult. So I'm working on getting them back out again. It was very triggering for a lot of people to see how heavily I have been attacked. Now, listen, boys, I'm a big girl. All right. When you're online, you know what it's like. You can handle it. I get, I get all kinds of stuff. But I think the damaging part is when you see Christians attacking somebody who's come out of witchcraft towards Jesus, the people that are watching my page are going, oh, I ain't going over there. I'm safe over here. No, I'm all right. Thanks. I don't want that. And a lot of people that are in the occult have been religiously abused or they've had religious trauma. So yeah, if you are somebody out there that's going through this, an attack, listen, I'm sitting on blurry creatures wearing black. Right. So are we. So are we, Jess. Well, there we go. You know, we're going to be in the next Monty Python sketch by the next few things. So yeah, I had a choice tonight and I chose to be myself and I'm going to get attacked regardless. And you are going to get attacked regardless. And like the closer you get to Jesus, the more the enemy starts being very clever. And yes, unfortunately, he does use people in the church, but they're not all like that. That's the Christians that are out there. Look, you guys are Christians. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You haven't condemned me to hell or called me a witch yet. You know, we've had a whole nearly two hour conversation and we've all been open and respectful. We still got time. We still got time, Jess. Well, that sounds very exhausting to be the judge and jury. I feel like there's some good angels that can actually handle the decrees of God to go to perform a task. I'm not one of them. That sounds like a job description that I can't handle. What about the UK specifically? It's like we've interviewed a lot of people from over there. Seems to be a lot of weird ancient occult stuff there. The most crop circles in the world happen there. What do you think is going on in that part of the world? Seems like a very dark place to be politically and crazy times. I will talk about as much as I can talk about. There are certain things we're not allowed to mention that could get me in serious trouble. If I talk about it, that should tell you enough. So at the moment, freedom of speech is very, very limited. There are a lot of things we're not allowed to talk about. For example, certain laws that have been put into place or certain people that are in the office at the moment. We are being attacked. I can't say what by, but just know that we have been infiltrated and we are being attacked on a daily basis. And it is being silenced in the news. The UK right now is probably spiritually just oppressed beyond belief. We are all getting sick. We're all our inflations through the roof. We are really going through it. UK lot know exactly what I'm talking about. You know what I'm not allowed to talk about right now, which could get me in trouble. Yeah, Ireland as well. People in Ireland are fighting through it. Scotland, similar. So what I would say, Americans, I'm so blessed because I've met so many lovely Americans on my page. I didn't realise America was so big on the occult and stuff like that. Americans, I think there's quite a culture clash between the UK and America. And I think that's where I get very misunderstood sometimes. Like, I didn't know sarcasm wasn't that big in America. It's huge in the UK. We all call each other the C word for a good morning. You know, so yeah, it's really bad over here. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm actually looking at moving to the US. I'm hoping to try and move to the US at some point. I know I didn't know how that would happen, but God willing, yeah, it's bad. It's bad. And I think we're all on a bit of a ticking time bomb to get out of here before things get even worse. We've got the digital ID that's trying to be pushed through, which obviously is kind of spelling out almost Mark of the Beast, isn't it? You can't buy or sell without it. But believe me, even though they're not reporting it, most of the UK is saying that they're trying to say that the UK is in up for there are protests going on. Like it is not all hunky-dory over here like you think. Right now, I've got no water. I've had no water for five days. And it's not just me. There's plenty of places in the UK where the water is just being shut off. And again, that's as far as I can talk about with things, but yeah, it's bad. It's bad. Help us. Jess, thanks so much for spending time with us today. I know we've had you on for a couple of hours and thanks for your story. I think that we say this periodically that when we hear people's stories, but the most powerful thing that God gives us is often our story. And I just want to encourage you that you're using it for good. You are using it to take it into those places where mostly girls that got trapped the same way you did are looking for ways out and for freedom. And I just know people are going to be blessed by this and by your testimony. And you're doing a great job. Thanks for fighting the good fight out there. Yeah, I know we don't hear that enough. I don't think anybody, people don't say that enough. But you're doing good. And it's been an honor to have you here. And we're just grateful. We're grateful that you're sharing some of these things. Listen, these are, to a lot of people in the church like Nate and I, these are things you hear about, but sometimes it maybe feels like Disney, right? It doesn't feel like real. Spells aren't real and your suffix is all made up. You're not allowed to talk about Disney. We could just get a strike. Yeah, you just got a strike. But you know what I mean? It feels like those kind of things like it's ethereal. It's not fairy tales. It's not made up, right? It's made up stuff. It's not real. But it's real. It's operating. And I think it's the, you know, it's the charge of Ephesians five, right? It's not participating in things of darkness, but rather to expose them, right? And I love that verse because I feel like it's permission to talk about these things and expose them so that they become powerless, they become bound by the name of Jesus. Awesome stuff. Yeah, you're tough. You're fighting and you're dealing with a lot of the stuff that, I'll probably have more on, you're taking more of the arrows than the most because you're out. Yeah. And I think sometimes we're sort of in the middle somewhere of, we sort of mix up the topics enough to kind of move on from those arrows. But if you're in one lane all the time, kind of a narrow, a hammering. So good on you. And Jess, stay encouraged. Some of us are called to the great memors of the 2020s and some are called to, yeah, to get out there and stamp out witchcraft. Yeah. But keep going. And we're praying for the UK. You know, we've both been over there. It can be dark. I mean, I remember feeling that years ago, just like trying to talk to kids after shows and just seemed like there was a, there just wasn't a lot of like, happiness and joy. I was just like, dude, we just played a rock show, hang out, have some, it just felt like something, something is dark. It's dark here. I don't know. I felt that way. No, you're a spot. It really is. It's, it's, again, there's so much I can't talk about, but there is something that is taking over this country and it's working fast. So yeah, we, you will notice the UK is really, really going through it. But boys, thank you so much for being so kind. I've not, I've not had a lot of kindness from, you know, the internet, obviously, and for anyone who is kind in the comments, thank you, have no idea how much you encourage. And if you are someone who feels that, you know, always judging others or whatnot, just know that you can actually turn that around. Like you, you don't have to stay like that. Like it usually is a spirit and that's not what we're called to do. We're called to, to love each other and the blood of Jesus will cover you against everything, especially witchcraft. So please do not feel. Hey man, and tell our listeners where they can find your free book and follow you and be kind. Yeah, well, yeah, or you're going to get a rap now. I'm very, very, very worked on. I'm not reacting to so much anymore. Yes, I wrote a free book. It's how to get out of the occult and find Jesus. Anyone can read it. You can just download it, send it to whoever. It's in the link of my Instagram bio and my TikTok bio. I'll try and chuck it on my YouTube as well. No cost. I don't do anything charged. So yeah, just go and help yourself and hopefully it helps you get out and stay out. Well, don't worry about making money either. You know, if you want to get over to America, I think a lot of times Christians are really hard on anyone who makes a living doing what they do. And that's just ridiculous. Like how's it, how's the Christian world going to grow if we're all broke? So I mean, yeah, there are things that I believe you're why you can't even pray and stuff like that course. But yeah, I've noticed that as well. People are allowed to make any kind of money in the Christian world. That's ridiculous. I done it for free, though. From my perspective, I made two best selling spell books, and I made a lot of money off of that. So with this book, I wanted to turn that around. So to speak. And I think I will set free for free. Therefore, I will give it freely. So that's my conviction. That doesn't mean that's what I think about Christianity. It's pretty good freedom. We're going to just free that water in your neighborhood in the name of Jesus. It's probably better getting it out of the pulling it out of the stream. Well, feel free to reach out to us if we say something dumb on our show. Yeah, just come back on. Yeah, we do that quite often. You've been great. Thank you, boys. Take care. Thanks. It was an honor. Yep.