117 | Part 6: Coach Dino Babers Talks Roaches, Man Hugs, and the Art of Building a Team with Love

This is Becoming Undone. A free t-shirt probably saved my life, and at the very least, it most likely saved my marriage. In 1998, I got to experience the greatest season in University of Arizona Wildcat football history. Pretty much first-hand. But it almost didn't happen, if not for a single free t-shirt. Let me explain. Have you ever been all in, like so far in, so engaged in something you're trying to do that you couldn't get out if you tried? I knew there was a term for it, and digging back through the dusty old memory banks, the term is point of no return. It was a term I first discovered way back in 1990, while I was watching Back to the Future part 3. So, now it's a great day. I'm going to go back to the old memory banks. I'm going to go back to the old memory banks. I'm going to go back to the old memory banks. I'm going to go back to the old memory banks. I'm going to go back to the old memory banks. I'm going to go back to the old memory banks. I'm going to go back to the old memory banks. I'm going to go back to the old memory banks. Point of no return. That's our fail-safe point. Up until there, we still have enough time to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine, but once we pass this windmill, it's the future or bust. As Doc Brown teaches us, if you're working on a project or aiming for a goal or otherwise just live in your life at half speed, oftentimes you can decide to change path without too much pain, without too much heartbreak. But when you're full speed ahead, you might be facing some serious consequences if you wait too long. The old interwebs says that a point of no return is, quote, a stage in a process or a journey where it becomes impossible or highly undesirable to reverse course or change direction, often implying a commitment to a specific path, end quote. For my wife, Christia Me, in 1998, somewhere between Galatia, Illinois and the Christopher City apartments in Tucson, Arizona, we unknowingly drove right by a point of no return without even realizing it. Heck, thinking back, we might have even stopped for gas at it, who knows. We'd been married for right out of a year. Christia had finished her student teaching and I'd finished my clinical hours and passed the certification exam to become an athletic trainer. We'd graduated from undergrad and I'd been offered and accepted a spot at the University of Arizona. We'd lived frugally for a year, to say the least, and we were headed to Tucson with the hopes of finally getting paid enough to pay the bills and maybe go out to eat once in a while. We laughed because that first year of marriage, we literally only ate out once, on my birthday no less. Sadly, for whatever reason, I don't recall us eating out at a restaurant on her birthday, though. Anyhow, we rented a small U-Haul kind of truck, heard something like that, and loaded our hand-me-down furniture in whatever else we had and headed west. The University doesn't pay moving expenses for GAs, so we put the truck rental on the loan miserable little credit card we had, maxing it out in the process, and we used what little cash we had left to pay for gas and the food to get there. I don't even remember how we paid for that first month's rent. I knew if we could just get there. The job awaited and I'd get paid soon enough, probably in a couple weeks, and everything would be fine. We're all. The problem was that U of A at least at the time, we only got paid once a month, and you didn't get paid at all until you'd been there at least a month. I recall we moved in on like the 6th or the 7th of June, so July, right? We'd have to survive for three weeks somehow with no money. Wrong again. Since I hadn't been there a full month, I wouldn't get paid for that month. And then the University required a full month to process new hires, so my first check would not come in July. It wouldn't even come in August. It would be September 1st. So just to recap, in case you were wondering, we moved like 1500 miles west using all the money we had, maxing out our credit card, and even though I was working as much as 50 or 60 hours a week right away, we didn't get paid for nearly three months. Meanwhile, Christy was looking for work and finally found a job at the Muscular District Association headquarters in Tucson. But still, it was over three months without a check. Ugh. No money for rent. No money for groceries. No money for gas. I tried calling Discover to get them to bump our credit line. No luck. What were we going to do? In that moment of desperation, we thought briefly about loading up and just going home. Things were that bad. I seriously considered it until I realized the truth. We couldn't. We didn't even have the money to move back. I was as humbled as I'd ever been up to that point in my life. I remember sitting alone in our lavish cinder block walled one bedroom apartment, thinking about how I'd dragged us all the way out here. And now I couldn't even afford to move us back home if I wanted to. We had passed the point of no return. I was desperate. I didn't know what to do or where to turn. In my anguish, I did what I often do when I don't know what to do. I cleaned. I was straightening out my desk when I stumbled across a St. Louis Cardinals MB&A credit card that had my name on it. I'd never used it. It hadn't even been activated. I had to think back as to how I'd even gotten it in the first place. The summer before I'd gotten married, my high school buddies and I all took an overnight trip to St. Louis to hang out together, do some back to school shopping, and catch a Cardinals baseball game. In those days, credit card companies were like vultures on college kids. They'd regularly set up at concerts, sporting events, various places on college campuses, usually employing cute co-eds to staff their booths, promising free t-shirts, in exchange for a credit card application. We were at the Cardinals game and my friends and I saw the booth and we agreed to take them up on their offer. We all signed up for MB&A Cardinals Visa cards. We got our free shirts and I promptly forgot about it. Sometime later, apparently that Cardinals card was mailed to my parents' house, where I was still living at the time. And sometime after that, that non-activated, still gummy stuck to the paper and sealed in the envelope card found its way into my desk drawer. Somehow, that desk drawer remained undisturbed for nearly a full year, surviving a move first to Ann, Illinois and then to Tucson, Arizona. Until I found it. In our time of most desperate need, I found it. Or maybe it found me. Thinking back on it now, I'm surprised it was still even valid. I called the number on the back to try to activate it, half expecting it to have been canceled already, but to my surprise, I was able to activate it. Suddenly, a whopping $1,250 credit limit was ours for the glorious taking. We would survive. We could stay. Even though we'd driven right through that point of no return without even realizing it, the Lord came through in the form of a forgotten St. Louis Cardinals Visa card. I'd simply gotten because I wanted a free t-shirt. And we'd live to tell the story later. And I'm glad we did. That 1998 season in Tucson was magical. Multiple players with NFL talent, deep experience and committed coaching staff, several of whom would go on to great personal success themselves. The coach told me at the helm, but a collection of people with an unwavering commitment to be their own best. It all came together for what remains to this day, the single greatest season in Wildcat football history. The offensive coordinator and running backs coach for that team was Dino Babers, whose connection to Coach Tomey runs deep. Coach Babers' name still commands respect across the college football world. Head coach, mentor, motivator, but before all that, he was a teenager in Hawaii with a Navy dad, a dream of playing ball, and a life-changing encounter with a fiery, passionate coach named Dick Tomey. If you've stuck around this long, I guess it's worth mentioning that I'm Tobi Brooks. In addition to being a professor, speaker, podcaster, back in the late 90s and early 2000s, I spent three years at the University of Arizona as a graduate assistant athletic trainer. And I didn't know it at the time, but I was part of the staff for Coach Dick Tomey's final season with the Wildcats in 2000. In a world consumed with numbers, Coach Dick Tomey's stats simply cannot and do not tell the whole story. But if you talk to the people who played for him, coached alongside him, or worked with him for a time, they'll tell you. No one shaped them quite like Coach Dick Tomey. Sadly, we lost Coach Tomey to a brief but valiant battle with cancer in 2019, but I'm thinking about that, and him, a lot lately. Since I've grown up as a professional, I've found myself aspiring to lead well, and looking deep into the leaders of my own past that I'd like to emulate. And if you're like me, Coach Tomey is at the top of that list. Famously, Coach was frequently quoted as saying, football isn't complicated. People are. I think the same could be said for just about any line of work. It's not the job that's complex, but leading the people sure is. And I've not seen many do it better than Coach. In a profession dominated by wins and losses, Dick Tomey created a legacy that endures decades after he coached his last game. It's that legacy that I've been thinking about ever since. How'd he do it? How'd he inspire so many to follow him, to believe in him, and to carry his lessons forward, not just into their careers, but into their lives? These are questions I just can't shake, so I decided to do something about it. I decided to dive deep into the stories of one of the most transformational leaders I ever got the honor and pleasure to serve. With you joining me for the journey, we've already been able to hear from some of the people who knew him best. His players, his staff, his family. And these and future episodes will explore the moments that defined him, the values he instilled in others, and the lasting impact he left on the game. We've walked with him through those early years in Indiana, his first head coaching job in Hawaii. His time at Arizona, and his return to the sidelines at San Jose State. Even the years in retirement when he kept on serving and loving and mentoring. Not just the sport of football, mind you, but the people of it. And in this process with you by my side, I think we will both not only get a refreshing chance to remember a legend, we'll also learn what it takes to lead, and to love, and to serve our people better too. From player to GA to Office of Coordinator under Coach Tomi de Arizona. In this episode, Coach Babers shares some unforgettable stories. Some funny, some emotional, all deeply revealing about what made Coach Tomi different. You'll hear about roaches in living rooms, trick plays, and man hugs. But more than that, you'll hear what it means to lead with love, to fight for culture, and to stay consistent in a world that's anything but. This is Becoming Undone. This is Dino Babers. And this is part six of the Life, Lessons, and Legacy of Dick Tomi. Atoby Brookes Passion Project. Joining me today, I'm thrilled, folks. Dino Babers, Coach Babers, attended the University of Hawaii at Manoa and began his coaching career with Dick Tomi at Hawaii as a GA in 1984. Since then, numerous stops. His resume reads like a who's who of college football. 95 through 2000, he coached on the offensive side of the ball, and was the OC at Arizona for Coach Dick Tomi, 98 through 2000. It's also been a head coach at Eastern Illinois, where he was the two-time OVC coach of the year. Sierra Cuse, where he was named AP ACC Coach of the Year in 2018. Coach, thanks for joining me. That's a mouthful to introduce you, but you're worth it. I appreciate you being here. Hi, I'm Clayton Tobey. Thanks for the invite. Well, you were with Coach Tomi in the early days, and the reason I wanted to get you on early is I'm kind of laying this out chronologically. And yeah, you had a that that stop that 98 team in Tucson is kind of the one everyone looks to. It was your splash as an OC, and I think it really opened a lot of doors for a lot of coaches on that staff. But you go way back before that on the island. So wanted to kind of get your insights as to who Dick Tomi was back with the Rainbow Warriors. So first question is your first impression of Coach Tomi. Do you remember the first time you met him and what was your first impression of the man? Well, this is a classic first time I met him was actually in his home visit. He visited me. And I was at 17. My dad, my dad passed away in 1990, 1994, he was 57 years of age, but he was a military Navy guy. And at the time, I had had some choices, but one of my choices was the naval account and I went into the naval account. My dad was Navy, so he coached Tomi came in on the home visit and he's talking to us and my dad sitting there and, you know, my dad said something about naval academy compared to Hawaii or something. My dad was like 16 to 35. He played ball. He's a strapping here that coached Tomi stood up and all of us. And not in a mean way, but just in, hey, we've got a lot of things to offer to. He kind of got, you know, not disrespectful, but stood his ground against my dad. And I was like, wow, you know, guys, I kind of like that. Yeah. You know, the way he does it. Yeah. And then when, when I, when all that was over and then I took the, I took the visit out there and I decided that I wanted to go to the university of Hawaii or you broke my dad heart, but I didn't go to the naval academy. But in the long run, it all worked out the best. Yeah. Coach definitely had, he didn't back down. That's for sure. He had hard of lying. Every great coach has a lesson or phrase. There's lots of dichotomies. You've got some great ones too that I still use to this day. Let me hear one of them. Yours. I say this to my kids. I've said it to my students. They don't call it walk in late. I can, I can picture Trump candidate in kind of a trainer trot. And you said, you know, we're supposed to go to a team period and you said, we don't call it walk in late. Certainly some coach. Tomie isms have come up in the interviews that have had so far. What comes to mind for you when I say, you know, those memorable coach. Tomie isms, you know, I, I, it's a hard one. And it's, it's the one that really drove me, you know, as an assistant and into my coordinator job days into it, I had an opportunity to be a head coach. But he used to say you're, you're either coaching it or you're allowing and, you know, heads I win, tails you lose. I didn't, I didn't like that. But when you apply to that, there's, you just can't give yourself an excuse. Yeah. And you've got to find a way to make it happen. And one of the things I pride myself on, I think coach is the exact same way is that coaching is teaching and teaching is coaching. And I said, to me, the only difference is Pays look. But besides that, besides that, it's that you know, as a teacher and I hope teachers don't get mad at, you know, you're allowed to give an A, B, a C, a D, and as a coach, you can do that. But there's going to be times where you may have an A player and he gets hurt. And now you weren't coaching the guy behind him. That's C or D person is in the game and represents you and everything you are doing on the football field and your direct representation of yourself and your unit. Spray everybody like they're going to beat the guy. And that's, that's the thing that motivated you the most out of that state. Yeah. That's some powerful wisdom. Certainly coach had a humor streak in him as well. He was known to be fiery and he would, he would get in your face if he had to. He's known for his passion and his presence. Do you have any classic only Dick told me could do this kind of stories that, that make you laugh? Oh, okay. Oh my God. So mad at me. But to me, I'm going to tell you the story about the Roach. Okay. We were doing a home visit with somebody that you might know this, this young guy was really light. We didn't know. We thought he was really good, but a lot of people thought he was too small of play. Some guy by the name of Dennis Morica. We're sitting in his house with his mother and his mother is beautiful first. And we're in their home and we're in the living room and coach told me there wasn't enough chairs for everybody. So that's classy. He's going to sit down Indian style on the floor. Well, I mean, I can sit on the floor, but I can't sit Indian style. I can't be cool. I'm too tight in the hips to that. So I'm sitting in a chair and Dennis and his mom was sitting on the circle and they got the coffee table in between them. And we're on one side near the other. And out of the corner of my kitchen, this is just me. I'm sitting here going by ceiling. And I'm going big deals now like I haven't seen one before. They just stay in the kitchen. Okay. Unless I become a part of this part and she's not going to be in charge of working its way down from the kitchen right into the living room, which is the next. And I'm trying to like, I'm watching the ropes and I'm trying to stay on what boats is talking about. And me and Mrs. Northcott meets eyes and I can see that Mrs. Northcott notices the ropes to me. And now she's extremely embarrassed. And let me say this to people. A lot of times people think, oh, you got a roaches. We've got a nasty house. You don't take care of your house. A lot of times the road just can be coming up on the people next door. You could have a hello house has nothing to do with messages. But the Roach is coming. I don't know what coach told me is going to do. I've never seen coach told me handle a Roach. I don't know if coach told me he's ever seen a Roach. You know what I mean? So the thing is just I mean, it's parading. It's like, it's like an HBCU guy out front. This Roach is parading like the proudest Roach. And they're coming down the middle of the living and coaches talking with his hands and here comes this Roach straight out of him. And then out of the sky, coach sees the Roach and he just goes, whoops, quicks the Roach all the way to the kitchen, never breaks strides with the captain and fences the conversation. Now I'm telling you this that come so the conversation ends. We leave. Okay. I leave something in the house. I knock on a door and I tell Mrs. Northcott, I love something in our house. She brings it to the front door. She says, coach, let me tell you something. I'm so embarrassed about what happened. I said, Mrs. Northcott, that happens all the time. I never had. I said, this is happens all the time. Don't you worry about who says to weigh coach Tony handle that tense. Yeah. Yeah. What classic coach told me not from just classic. Yeah. Just sold to the earth and just a man's man. And I've heard several stories about how, you know, Johnny majors comes in them into a guy's living or Jesse's pull it. I mentioned like all these coaches coming in suit and tie and they sit in my dad's recliner coach, Tommy's in shorts and, and, you know, looking like a PE coach, but sitting in the floor respecting the culture and that connected. And that resonated with parents in a way that maybe a suit and tie couldn't or didn't or wouldn't. Absolutely. I'm curious. So you've experienced coach as a student athlete. You started your career as a GA. Your first OC, I believe was at Arizona under coach. So, so you've served him in many different roles. Talk me through that process. And, and, you know, if, if you didn't like the guy, you wouldn't have kept coming around, you know, playing for him. He was a, we used to, we used to call him that. He used to call him a blue eye devil. As a player, but he was, he was, he was fiery. He was, I want to, the next thing I would say a team guy with God, it was his way now. It was, it was he, I mean, and he cooled by the time he got to Arizona, he had cooled down. I will be fresh. I mean, we had him fresh as first head coach and job. And I knew he could put the fear of you, blah, blah, blah in you. If there was, there was no doubt in it. Black, white, Polly, it did not matter. I mean, he's, he's getting up on a soapbox, the Mookie in the eye, but God dang it. I mean, sometimes you get up in a bigger chair than that to look up some guys in the eye. He was fiery, but he was honest. And he was, he was somebody you could talk to. I remember being a, oh, I was team captain my senior year and I went and had a conversation with him about the team, about individuals on the team. And he probably didn't like what I said, but he sat there and listened to me. And after I left, and I'm not going to talk about the topic, you know, he made some, he made some changes. And I think those, those changes paid off. I don't know if he made them because of me. He could have been already ready to make those changes. No, coach, no, but he was open to change. He was open to do things a different way. I thought I saw on your thing. Well, I don't talk about that one. I thought, did you ever talk about camp coach chiefs where they had the swimming? Yes. So my first, my first year, the first year I went down there, coach was talking about how they're going to get the champions and then the, and then the coaches are going to swim. I guess the guys. And I said, and he says, Dino, you're going to be on the team. I said, coach, I can't be on the team. He said, why not? I said, coach, I can't swim. I said, you can't. I said, close. I said, I can't swim. He says, you're on the team. What the coach, I cannot swim. You get it done. You're a competitor. You're on the team. Needless to say. I mean, I dove real far. I got it. Almost to the middle of that. And that's not where I stayed. I'm picturing you after that conversation, like working after hours in the pool. Like you, you can't let the guy down and did. Now I will say this. Okay. We lost that. He said, you know, you're not on the team. That's awesome. Well, one thing that's come up repeatedly. I mean, he's, he's just this, you know, little white guy. He says he wasn't even an athlete. He had the played college baseball, but to hear him tell it, he was an athletic and grew up in the Midwest, starts his coaching career in Ohio. That's not really a formula for someone who brings different cultures together. He goes to Hawaii and develops his recruiting pipeline for Polynesian players. And, and he's got players of all different backgrounds and ethnicities coming together for a common cause. And I'm curious your perception on that as a student athlete and then how, I mean, in the seventies, no less. And that's, that's remarkable. So talk me through what he did to build that culture and, and unify. It was all on. I mean, it was family. It really was he, he, he brought, brought black guys, white guys, tallie guys. It didn't matter. You were going to come in there and you were going to learn about other people's culture. We had a, I remember we had a, you'll retell your story and we would sit down. He said, and that started in Hawaii as a player, but we sat down our entire football team. And everybody had to get against the wall and they had to tell your story. And you're talking about a hundred people talking about coaches, including coaches. And coach told me would start and there was like coaches in between. But I mean, I don't know how long that took. It was like, I think about this. It's kind of a motion picture, but to hear so many people's stories about. Fighting and family and Jack and where their minds were and why they had to succeed and how come they couldn't fail and everybody being able to do something to be that you would say in your story that was going to relate to me and how I grew up. And the supplement I was in my story that you could relate to and in a way that entwined everybody together and into something that was that was that was tough. Something that was deep. This to me is the essence of people first leadership, story, connection, commonalities. In an outcomes obsessed world, the thought of a new coach coming in and taking the time to gather everyone on his team together and one by one person by person, taking the time to let every single individual share their story on the surface. It seems horribly inefficient. Like there has to be something more important to do than sit around just talking and listening. But here's the truth. Great teams don't sprout from people who aren't connected. A connection never sprouts from nowhere. It takes time. It takes effort. And while on the surface, it might seem like an inefficient way to spend a day or even days. The payoff is later on. When your shoulder to shoulder with someone in the heat of battle, you're more likely to dig deeper, give everything you have in their defense, because you know what they've been through. And likewise, they know you too. This isn't just good coaching practice. It's effective teaching practice and it's effective leadership practice as well. Today we hear leadership gurus talk about the importance of workplace and team culture. By focusing on a team's composition first can lead to enhanced performance and outcomes later. A 2010 meta analysis published by Rovio and colleagues in Athletic Insight Journal looked at nearly 30 peer reviewed studies on the importance of purposeful team building and their findings were predictable. Quote, team building has a positive effect on group functioning, especially increasing group cohesion. End quote. You don't say. While modern coaches may read stuff like this and work backwards from a desire to win to a close knit team to the use of story, then it's clear that coach told me how to the other way around. He started with stories because he knew you can't truly love someone you don't really know. And if you love them, you're connected to them. And when you're connected to them, you understand the idea of we greater than me. And if you understand that, then you're way more likely to get the absolute best out of every member of that team. Before it was cool, before it was contemporary, before it was culture, before it was considered evidence based practice. Coach told me use stories and Christian circles. We'd say testimonies regardless. If I know you and where you hurt and what you've been through and what motivates you, then there's a vulnerability revealed. And in that vulnerability comes the opportunity from me to serve you in a way that I couldn't do otherwise. And it all starts with teammates in a circle, sharing and listening and linking together. He mixed. No, he did the stuff of mixing this guy with that guy. My first my first roommate, my first roommate, my first roommate stayed one week and left with found the San Diego. Went to a new trial is ended up being recruited and playing for Georgia. But my second roommate was a six foot seven blonde blue-eyed Canadian. He tied in and talked like he was from Australia. Hey, maybe. And his name happened to be Jim Mills. And the guy ended up being, I want to say, work of the year in the national football league for the Indianapolis coach. He was a six, seven right in that grew into a tackle and played in the national football league. And he was from British Columbia. But you you're you're mixing all these people. We didn't have to live with them, but for camp, that's how it started, kind of like the coach. He's doing and doing that mixture of just learning all this different stuff that when we broke off into our little cliques, you know, during the season or whoever your roommates was, you were able to go into different parts because you'd heard some stories. And, you know, I said this that coach is funeral. But I want to say it again is that coach totally taught me how to love men. I mean, when you when you went through there, you had a true love for the guys you're playing with. And those are the guys that are going to be in your weddings and those are the guys that are going to be at your theaters. And there's no way to get around. I might get emotional fairness, but in the research, I've come across two different clips. There's one of him speaking to Coach Brendan's team at the time at San Jose State. And there's another one of him. I believe he's talking to the Pima Athletics Hall of Fame induction, something like that. But he's talking about man hugs and you get in there and, you know, and he slaps you on the back of the neck. Legend coach told me here we go. Now, when I say a big hug, guys, I'm talking about a big hug. I'm talking about this. I'm talking about that. And then I'm talking about this. I'm talking about that. And you have to be excited about the fact that there is great competition because it's going to make you better. The team, the team, the team, the team. That really isn't what it was. It was a bunch of incredible people. And as we gave each other, as Nancy, my wife Nancy, who's just the most important person in my life, as we were giving people each other what Nancy calls these man hugs, these real hugs, not these counterfeit hugs that people give each other these days where they hardly touch each other. I mean, we're talking two hands gobble each other up. And I got one of those after that 2000 season. That was rough. It's the GA. Like I'm not, I'm not part of his report structure. You know, I'm working with Matt and, and it's just from, from the top to the bottom. It doesn't matter if you're the OC or the freshman equipment ball boy, like he's going to love you as hard as he knows how to love you. And you can't help the root for the guy and you can't help but give your best. And that's something that I've taken. And I didn't really realize it in that moment. But as you get away from it and you realize, Hey, wait a minute, other people don't do that. Like this is unique. What I had was, was special. And, and I have to think that you being in those multiple roles, you experienced that firsthand. Did it change as you ascended in his hierarchy of coaching? You would, you would think it. No, not at all. I mean, same animal, same animal as a player. When I GA for him, you know, classic, I had went to a Canada to work out for, try out for the BC Lions to see FL and technically when I came back, all the GA job were gone. He had said he'd give me a GA job, but he kept me in a GA position, but I was basically making manager money. So I was, I was a manager. So I had to set up the field as a manager and then work with practice as a GA. And a lot of people didn't know that, but he, he's one of those guys where he hit him being loyal to his players, loyal to his coaches, almost to a fault, but not breaking that bond. If you're in, inside that circle and you truly are family, you're not an individual, you're a team player, all about the team that he's going to take care. And I am, I'm going to share this with you is that when I left Hawaii to go to Arizona State, this is Buzzy Preston, who was a longtime coach at Georgia Tech and Hawaii guy, but played with one. He told me this, he says, he said, Dino, do you really want to coach for coach? I said, yeah, I'm not coaching coach. If you want to coach for coach told me the best way for you to do it is to leave. I said, what? I'm going to leave? I'm going to stay here and coach. He says the best way to get you want to work for him is leave him and do a great job and he'll bring you back. Yeah. And that's why I left Hawaii in Arizona State to work. And just like he said, was it 1995, 1990, 60? Yeah. So powerful. I don't have to tell you coaching is a fickle business and you could be at the top of the heap one year and on the hot seat the next 98, 12 and one holiday bowl. Historic on so many levels and by 2000, it all crumbles and and and that 2000 season was hard for everybody. I'm curious though, in your experiences since what did you learn from coach? Tell me watching that 2000 season in Tucson and how did it serve you moving forward? It is helping a lot of things. I watched the interaction between him and the administration. And of course, I'm not watching it from a head coach standpoint. I'm not critical to conversations and things like that. Like I'm a good real, I'm a good recruiter. I have a lot of common sense that I could, I feel like I do. I can read body language extremely well. And the body language was intense time sort of speak. And just to watch how he did not let that affect how he did not let that affect the team, even though I think there was pressure on himself. He was not going to allow that to drip to the coaching staff or to his players. He wasn't going to ruin his players season over something that's his issue. Yeah. Well, with the administration and just the way he handled it professionally, left a huge impact on me on what happened after that and the way I went through my coaching stories. So it's getting like hearing and you can't learn it any better. You couldn't have a better teacher than our coach told me in the way he handled the thing. Yeah. Well, without a doubt, you've carved out a successful path. Is there anything from coach told me his playbook and we can think of that literally or figuratively that you still use to this day? You know, coach told me was really big on this coach told me loved trick. What absolutely he loved them and his he's going to always have one and always have two in and know you're going to call. Well, it's the thing I learned from him most was to have a trick play in the game. And to hold on to it and let the other team run their trick play first drove him absolutely crazy. So if you had a trick play, you had to run it before the other office and coordinator called his trick play or no matter what happened, you know, you're going to get you're going to get your tail. Yeah. I got another start for you. Oh, this piece is this is oh, this is the tooth and 98 season to now this is. This is kind of sensitive to the tube, but this is a classic coach. So we played UCLA that year at home. It was a high scoring game. I think the offense turned it over with your week with your two picks in the red zone when we lost the coast game to UCLA. All right. And after gay at rush, I think Tron, I can't remember the numbers exactly. I think Tron had rushed to like 95 yards and coach met with all the coordinators and he came over and met with me. And I mean, he ripped me. Just ripped me a new one. I said, coach, that's not that's not fair. I said, I think we had close to 500 yards in offense. I think if they watched school, you know, I really feel like we did. I might be wrong. Look, the numbers are probably through for amazing numbers to turn over to. He just ripped my tab that we didn't begin on the ball. This is a Dick told me about. So I mean, people couldn't understand it Sunday. I'm upset Monday. I'm upset to I'm not crushing or not. I don't miss them. I mean, I'm just internally upset. I want anybody to read you. You pay me. So we're going to play Oregon State next game and I just can't get the taste out. I mean, he laid into me so hard. I just can't taste it. And we go to work in state and I just. I got mad. I got mad. And I think we threw the ball seven times. I don't think we went like, I'm not, I'm just, I'm trying to remember this. I think we went like four for seven or five for seven throwing the ball. And I think we were at two tailbacks. I know they both went over a hundred, but I want to say that like we had two. I don't know those two, but after this. So we win the game and it's all that kind of stuff. And he's looking at me and I'm looking at him because I'm still mad about the other comments and he just kind of. Good day. Thanks. One of those things. Look, the story is the wide receivers. So I'm coming in and they're all outside the Oregon State locker room. We're too great at Oregon State back then. You got Dennis North. Now, see the thing is Jeremy McDaniels, I think he could win over a hundred yards and catches in that game, even though you like, you might have like four catches. He went over a hundred yards. Dennis North did a Brandon Manny, Maddie. I've got, oh my God, I forgot my guy that catches everything per second. Brad Brennan, Malosi Leonard. And they're just, you know, they're not saying anything to me because I love those guys. They love them. So they're all outside. They're not in the locker room. So I'm walking in and I go, why not? It's over here. Oh, it's just the awesome. They're all on the curb. I think I'm all in front of them. You know, this is after we just threw for four hundred and it's the breeze. I mean, just got to apologize to you guys. I'm not going to lie to you. I just got mad. I just got mad and sorry, you know, it won't be like that the next game, but that's just how it was this game. And Dennis North looks up that being he goes, that's all right, coach. That's all right. That's all right. We all get mad. That's all right. We got it. We got it. When he goes, coach, just don't get mad again. Yeah. And those seven balls are thrown by two different quarterbacks at that. So that's exactly what I thought about. Well, that's awesome. Well, beyond the X's and O's, how would you say coach told me shaped the man you became off the field? You know, it's a I'm glad I feel like I've had three dads, biological dad. My high school coach, John Shackler, put a huge, really shaped me because my dad was away. He couldn't do all the things that a dad could do with me. He used to always step in. He's still alive. I spoke to him this week. Amazing guy. But coach told me it was like, like a second, third father to and not so much that he, you know, he grabs and hugs everybody, but it's more watching his actions and watching him as from a 17 year old to, oh my God, I don't know, a 30 something year old before, before I left him. He was just so consistently good, you know, and he just, just big line, be consistently good, not occasionally great. Somebody you can wind your clock by day in and day out, you know, I can be there for you. Those are the type of guys I want around me. And that's what he was. You knew what you were going to get for the most part, but I see your less his eyes, deep blue on the beginning, you didn't know what you were going to get. But that consistency allows you to grow. And that's the thing that I learned the most on this. Be consistent, whatever you are, be true to yourself, be true to your personality. And your guys can grow around and then listen to me. Sometimes young people have a great idea. They really do. Just you got to listen to them and let them tell their story and let them get it off their chest and then tell them what's best for the team. It may not be what's best for them and then, and, and what's best for the team maybe because then not to be with us. Yeah. I have those stories guys. So I'm not going to kill your career, but this is not the place where you based off of things that you like. Right. Powerful, powerful. I appreciate you sharing that. If you could go back in time and spend one moment with Coach Tomi on or off the field that you experienced, what would it be and why? Oh, God, you're going to hurt. When I came at an opportunity to come visit coach when he was, when he had his cancer and I really believe that I was like one of the last people to actually get a conversation real him. And I was in his house in Tucson. Miss Nancy was there as well. And I asked him a question. I'm not going to tell you a question. I'm not going to tell you the question, but it was a deeply personal question. And this is, this is him going in and out. I'll say reality. But I asked him a question about. Top level football, but I wanted to hear what his answer was. And. Close his eyes. And I thought I was losing him, not losing him into death, but just he's going to go off of one of those tanges and he wasn't with us. We're with me. When he closed his eyes for a long period of time. And I'm like, God, is this sleep? And then he opened his eyes. And. I guess if you're not going to get the moral of the story, unless I tell you the question, I ask. I asked coach this. I was. I was. Yeah, I was there coach. I asked coach. I said, coach is a possible clue to win a national championship. That's. That's the question. And he paused to close his eyes. Long period of time and he opened his eyes. To the set. I will know. And it was so powerful because I knew he wasn't lying to me. He wasn't lying to me. And he knew that I really needed to know the answer. Yeah. And. I want to say not long. I mean, one or two weeks after that, he passed like. For him to give me that at the end of something that I've always remembered. And as crazy as that sounds, when I've heard that main image in life is. That was starting. I thought, well, this will be great. Everybody gets to pay players and. And we all have a chance to win, but now it's just seems like people more. Yeah, that's good. The players are getting paid. But now you got to find, you have other issues now that everybody's getting paid or how to keep teams together. And to be able to have long periods of run. What? Or more concerned about people playing next to. Well, playing next to a playing for. Yeah, you deserve to get it. That's not what I'm talking about. The team aspect. Yeah, I appreciate sharing that. And that actually leads right into my next to last question. The game has changed in so many ways compared to even when coach told me was at St. Jose, which doesn't seem like that long ago. But in terms of the cataclysmic shifts we've seen in college sports. It's a different game today. If coach told me we're coaching in today's era of NIL and transfer portals and analytics. How do you think you would have adapted? Wow. I don't know about that. He's so team oriented. He's so team oriented. And I guess he would be that guy where everybody would make the same amount of money. And if he didn't make this, if you didn't want to make the same amount of money, then you didn't want to be a part of his team. And go have fun doing their mail. We're going to have a football team that loves each other, that's going to stay together. We're going to go out here and compete at the block. Yeah. And I think that would be the major thing. I don't think that it's not a situation where certain guys can't get more money or, you know, your quarterback to go back and shut down corner, which coach Tony had so many NFL corners under coach. We had draft picks on offense. We had draft picks on defense. And there's no doubt that everybody could say, well, if you're going to pay somebody, pay that guy because he's working. But to have the team still have the team working. Okay. Team moment. Remember when we had the lead by the late? We went to Washington without Chris McAllister, which is OMG. And we got the ball. I don't know about 98 yards from the goal line. And we had to have two quarterbacks. One play quarterback and then one fourth down or third down. And I don't know what he Smith completes the past or Ortiz Jenkins running a comeback and then aptly throws the BV to the other side of the field. He runs off the field and OJ goes back to quarterback to finish the drive from the lead by the lake. And that's in a two minute. Let's see how many Huskies come jogging the cat from Arizona. Just the four. Jenkins steps up. He goes. He dies. He wins. That was one of the most phenomenal plays you'll see in college football. I give him a 10 across the board, Steve. He does a complete flip into the end zone. And if he doesn't land on his feet, Arizona is turned back. I'll tell you what. Ortiz Jenkins, I have never seen something like that. But you see the remarkable athleticism of Ortiz Jenkins. What a play. But that have a win like that. And then to come back. And when the doors opened on the jet in Tucson that night, Chris McAllister was on the farm to this day to this day to this day. I'm like, Chris McAllister, how did you get on the tarmac? You know what that is? On the tarmac. The teams going crazy. Won this game of books. I'm calling the truth. But that's that's coach told me could take a kid from anywhere and instill that type of Oana that local media that family and and I mean, oh, yeah. He makes men love each other. He makes us cry to get there on a roll. We're all crying. Yeah, he's probably we're crying. Yeah, that's a good one. I hadn't heard that story. I got to compose myself. I had goosebumps here and you tell that story that I mean, Chris McAllister all world. I mean, he's, you know, in in this era today, that guy's a prima donna and and he doesn't answer to anybody, but maybe his agent, you know, that's exactly right. And he was good enough that his agent was answering to him. Yeah, so good. Well, I certainly appreciate your time. I got one last one here word association. If you had to sum up coach told me in just one word, what would it be and why? I would say it. I just he he had the ability to walk into anybody. See, this is cool because I got to see it. He recruited just like you said. Jesse, some Polo stories, the Kessie, Aqualaba, the Nico, Nogars, you know, Chris McAllister, Lance Briggs. Lance Briggs was in my house sitting right now, right where I'm sitting. And all they were all he was doing was talking about. They told me went to the Bears play with her lacquer. I mean, Lance Briggs NFL Pearl, all that stuff. And all we were sitting there talking about was. Dick told me lasting impression changing. You think the singing group boys, the men, they say he should have took back. He's it boys, the men and and we're still fertilizing his his thoughts, his loves, his mannerism. Long and half pulling after his job. Yeah, so good. Well, I have one story that I hope you don't reward. Well, this is a me and you story. I love to work with the RBS and the wide receiver. When I went to the Raiders, they stuck me with the old line. So when you're slopping watered old line, like that's a lot of work. But for for the pretty boys, it's pretty easy work and you get to see them throw balls and run and jump and do fun things. So I'm standing by your position group. I think you were the RBS at the time and it was unseasonably cold in Tucson and I didn't have a hat and the students standing beside me. Her hands were really cold. So she took taking some pre-wrap and wrapped her hands in pre-wrap just to keep warm. And my ears were freezing and I'm like, I'm going to get frostbite out here. And this is Tucson, right? This is spring ball, I think. So idiot me. She hands me the pre-wrap. And I saw her wrapping it around my head and I'm not paying attention. And you're talking to your to your RBS and she kind of nudged me and I looked over it and you had stopped kind of mid sentence. I better not have my arms folded because that's a penalty. And I tell my students that I'm like, okay, when you're out there, you're on your if your coach stops mid sentence because you're doing something stupid. That is a horrible mistake. Fair enough. So my apologies. This is what 20, 30 years later, I'm so interrupting the middle of your speech. And I will also say this, my other Dino Babers memory, I don't know where coach went, but he was out for one day. We were in Arizona Stadium. It was a fairly light, you know, shells kind of thud practice. And you had kind of taken over and you were wrapping up that end of practice, you know, coach, the typical end of practice taking the show me your eyes. And I remember hearing you give that speech addressing the team. And I'm like, that guy is an awesome head coach. And you were just filling in, you know, just doing what you needed to do to fill in for your mentor. And, and I was just so happy to see where your career took you because I could tell that just the inspiration just poured out of you in much the same way that we see coach show me do the same. So I just wanted to tip my cap to you. Sincerely appreciate it's been a real honor and a joy to watch what you've gone on to do. Well, Toby, I appreciate you're working at, you're working at a very special place now. I used to be there and I love that place. I'm still a little teet off that I had. I've never got a chance to play a game in that meat stadium across the river that I watched being built. So dog on long, long, long, maybe if I get a little free time off here around here out, chance to come out there and watch you guys play a game. That would be awesome. That'd be awesome. Brisket on me and anything else you want. Sounds good. I'm Dino Babers. And I am undone. What does it mean to leave a legacy? Coach Dick told me it meant more than wins or titles. It meant making men love one another. It meant creating a Hanna out of chaos. It meant caring more about the person than the position. In this episode, Coach Dino Babers reminded us that Coach Tommy's real genius wasn't just in game play and to recruiting pipelines. It was in his unwavering consistency, that fierce loyalty and his gift for building bridges between people who might not have otherwise been connected. When Babers sat with him in those final days and asked one last question, Coach Tommy, true to form, didn't pretend to have all the answers. But he showed up honestly with her, just like he always had. Thankful to Coach Babers for dropping in and I hope you enjoyed our conversation. For more info on today's episode, be sure to check it out on the web. Simply go to undonepodcast.com backslash EP117 to see the notes, links and images related to today's guest, Coach Dino Babers. Coming up next week, you will not want to miss my conversation with Walk On turned NFL coach Dave Phipp, who now serves as Special Teams Coach for the Detroit Lions where he shares what it was like to play and serve under Coach Tommy. After that, we'll check in with Coach's son Rich Tommy, who continues to serve coaches today in his work with the Positive Coaching Alliance. Well, there's lots more after that as well. If you've listened this long, friend, I have a favor to ask. Please, would you be so kind as to send a text or DM or even a phone call to a friend or a former teammate or a former staff member who worked with Coach Tommy and tell them about this show? We're now six episodes deep with more to come and I would love nothing more than for thousands of people whose lives were touched by Coach Tommy to take this journey right along with the rest of us. In the meantime, stick with me. I promise we are seriously still just getting started. This and more on Becoming Undone, the life, lessons and legacy of Dick Tommy, a Toby Brooks passion project. Becoming Undone is a nitripe creative production written and produced by me, Toby Brooks. Tell a friend about the show, follow along on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn at Becoming Undone pod and follow me at TobyJBrooks on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Check out my link tree at linkedr.ee backslash TobyJBrooks, listen, subscribe and leave me a review at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts. Remember, it's better to be consistently good than occasionally great and you're either coaching it or letting it happen. Until next time, keep getting better. Becoming Undone