#271 Ro Khanna - The Internal Failures Undermining America’s Institutions

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At Betway Casino, stake 20 pounds and get 150 free spins for new customers. 18 plus, T's and C's apply. Bet the responsible way. Gamble aware.org. Ro Khanna, welcome to the show. Thank you. You got quite the studio. And I've done a lot of these. I haven't ever seen a studio with liquor guns from your time in Afghanistan, Iraq. It's worth coming here just to see the studio. Well, thank you. If you get thirsty, we've got plenty of booze here. I don't drink, but it looks pretty cool. You got a great collection. Thank you. But man, this is so trying to get you and Thomas Massion at the same time, but he couldn't make it. But I just want to say that what you guys are doing, trying to bring disclosure or transparency to the Epstein files and what the hell has been going on with all that, I mean, thank you for doing that. Well, thank you for your voice because you've been talking about this early on. And it's why I wanted to come down here. And it's the survivors. I mean, you know, people don't get how bad this stuff was. And of course, Thomas has been a key partner, but you have over 1200 women, many of them from working class backgrounds. A lot of them, by the way, didn't have a father. Like they were purposely targeted because they were vulnerable. Epstein creates a rape island where basically rich and powerful people go down there either to abuse or sexually exploit these young girls or to watch in parties as 13 and 14 year olds are paraded around and they're drinking booze and laughing. And then you have people trafficking these girls, even when they were underage or 1920 being trafficked to other rich and powerful folks, they call the FBI, the FBI says, we're not going to do anything. The FBI says, what the fuck does the FBI do? So there's what do they do? So I'm just going to, I'm sorry, I'm going to cut you off. I've been covering this topic for a long time. I started this with Ryan Montgomery about two years ago. I know you did. Then I brought on Tim Tebow. We're bringing on your buddy Schlepp, who's going after Roblox. I know you're the first and only congressman to actually speak out against Roblox, at least according to Schlepp's attorney. And I just interviewed Elizabeth Phillips. Are you familiar with this Camp Canna Cook? I'm not. It's the biggest Christian camp in the fucking world. And they are, I brought Elizabeth Phillips on and she talks about how they've been molesting thousands of kids for years and putting them under NDA after a settlement so that they can never, as a kid, so that they can never come out and talk about their sexual abuse at fucking Camp Canna Cook. And now we have, I mean, I fucking voted for this shit. I voted to get these damn files released and it's like a total 180 just happened. Well, I don't know if you had the president on or the vice president on your show, but they campaigned on this. And so when Massey and I originally did the bill, we thought, okay, Trump should be for this because he campaigned, he said, look, we're going to release the files. Here's the truth of the matter. No one cared about this issue since the 1990s. It's not like a Donald Trump thing. Biden, we didn't release the files under Biden. This thing was going on since the 2000s. In 1996, Maria launched a complaint with the FBI and she was told, we're not going to do anything. By the way, you talked to some of the other survivors. They were told, don't talk to the New York police. Epstein is too connected. For 30 years until some of the documents just came out because of Massey and my bill, Maria was called a liar by everyone in power and said, oh, she never filed a complaint with the FBI. So when Trump said he wants to release the files, he was right. When he said that the system is corrupt, protecting, rich and powerful people, he was right. And we gave him the benefit of the doubt. Then Pam Bondi comes and says, oh, there's no more files. I mean, come on. That's when Massey and I do this bill. And we initially thought maybe Trump would support it because his own attorney general is betraying his promise. And what has been disappointing is we've, for the last five, six months, have had to fight the administration at every step of the way, which gets me to believe who is protecting these people. I just, I don't understand. I cannot, I got really fucking pissed off at the Democrat Party because the maps, the minor attracted persons, shit before Trump came into office. We talked about it all the time. Now, why are we protecting? Why is the White House protecting pedophiles? Why is the White House protecting pedophiles? I just don't understand it, bro. I can't fucking get it through my head. Why we would protect pedophiles. The other thing is this country has the biggest fucking problem with sex exploitation and sex trafficking in the world. We can talk about fucking Venezuela and Mexico and Ukraine and Russia and fucking China and waste fraud and abuse and fucking liberalsists and Democratsists and Republicans. And we have a pedophile problem. We have a fucking pedophile problem in this country and nobody's doing anything about it in government except you and Thomas Massey. What the fuck is going on? You know how I know this because... Is everybody in government a fucking pedophile now? What the fuck is happening? Well, I don't understand who they're trying to protect because I keep saying it's not about Trump. There's, there's so many people, Democrats, Republicans who are involved in all of this, just release the files. And we know, they say, how do you know, Ro, that there are other men involved? First of all, just use your common sense. There are 1200 plus survivors. You think one guy raped all of them? You think one guy abused all of them? Of course not. There was a system of powerful, rich men who either trafficked in these girls or abused them or showed up to Epstein's rape island. The survivors haven't told me the specific names, but what they have told me with their lawyers is the type of people who were involved. A Wall Street banker, a powerful politician, and they said that they sat through interviews with the FBI. They're called 302 statements, and they told the names on those 302 statements. So release the 302 statements. They're not doing that, even though the law explicitly calls for releasing those statements. We'll know who these powerful men are. Then there was a prosecution memo. You know, originally, there were 60 counts against Epstein, supposed to be in Florida. They prosecuted him on two counts. There's a memo which explains why there should have been 60 counts, including ties with foreign countries, including ties with people who were financing him, including allegations of a honeypot system where he was trying to entrap basically powerful men, and they're not releasing the memo, even though the law explicitly says we want to know all the decisions of why he was charged or not charged. I mean, they're covering it up, and the people are asking why. Who are the powerful forces that have such influence, but they're covering this up? Every citizen I talk to here, see, say on social, anything once those files are released. Was it every single person in Congress that voted for it to release them? And was there every single person in the Senate except one person? Everyone in the House except one. Everyone in the House except one. And every Senator. But I got to give credit, not just to Massey's courage, because he's got billionaires funding against him, and the billionaires don't like me these days either. I mean, so you go after the Epstein class, you make a lot of enemies. You know, look at my ex, and you see the people who go after Massey and me, but it wasn't just Massey and me, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Bulbert, and Nancy Mace stuck their neck out to sign a discharge petition that the two of us had to force a vote on it. They got bullied by the White House, they got bullied by the Speaker, they got threatened, their political careers were threatened. Marjorie Taylor Greene lost her seat, gave up her seat in Congress over this. Yeah, didn't the President tell her, what did he tell her? He told her that she's betraying him. Look, Marjorie Taylor Greene was for Donald Trump when he came down the escalator. She was with Donald Trump when he ran in 2020 and lost. She was with Donald Trump when he said the election was stolen. I disagree with her, but she was out there defending him. She was with Donald Trump in 2024 when DeSantis and others were talking about running against him. No one had been more loyal to Donald Trump. When she joined the petition, she says, well, I'm going to explain to Trump that he actually can be a hero. He's going to come on board. I'm telling you, he's going to come on board. Trump says to him, well, you're hurting some of my friends. This is not the right thing, you're hurting people. How about hurting the survivors? How about hurting the women? Yeah, how about the fucking kids? It's girls. Kids, hurting your friends. You know, it gives a shit about your fucking friends. We give a fuck about kids. And these are, these are working class girls. I wish people could see their stories and how they were exploited. It's a class issue. Rich, powerful people connected to politicians doing, figuring out, well, who's vulnerable? Who doesn't have a father? Who doesn't have a lot of money? You know, how do we get that girl to start with giving us massages? You know what the saddest thing that I heard from a survivor? They were saying that the survivors are guilty because the survivors were actually recruiters of aiding and abetting other girls in getting raped or getting abused. So one of the survivors says, yeah, I did that. You know why I did that? Because I was so afraid that I was going to be abused, that I went and I got other junior high girls and other high school girls to take my place because I didn't want to be abused. Junior high girls. Junior high girls. Junior high girls. And we can't release the files. But before we move on, and we just both get pissed off aside of what we're doing, I just, what we talked about, Ryan Montgomery, Tim Tebow, I told you about Elizabeth Phillips, who I just interviewed, we're bringing on slip. It's such a problem in this country. What I'm just curious, what, what can parents do right now? Not call their congressman, not call their senator, that shit's not working. What can people do right now on their own to protect their kids? One, they need to know how widespread this is. You know how it's widespread? I, I realized this because since I've been affiliated with Epstein, I get stopped on an airport. People will say, hey, congressman, can I tell you about what happened to me? I get, I had, I've known people for 30 years. And they said, you know, Ro, something happened. One person told me, you know, when I was four to eight years old, my babysitter's boyfriend abused me. And I never told my mom or my dad, because my dad would have killed a guy and my mom would have totally lost it. So I've held this with me. And she said to me, Ro, it's like a box. You put it in a box and you put it away, but it comes back at any moment. And the amount of people who have faced this, I'm not saying all from Epstein, obviously, just face this in this country is extraordinary. And it's sickening. It's a, it's a national crisis. First thing we need to realize is we've got a moral crisis in this country. Second thing is when you're having your kids go to a sleepover, go to a sports team, go on a field trip, be paranoid. I mean, I don't want to scare folks, but when you have them on a gaming site, when you have them on the internet, they need to be paranoid. The parents need to understand that this is not something that happens in a remote part of the country. This could happen to your kids. But the main reason I want these Epstein files out is because it'll force a reckoning in this country. People, it'll be the biggest candle. I've found my ability in 100 years because it's going to expose what's how sick our elite culture is. Where for their own gratification, they think that they can just abuse these girls and nothing will happen. And that kind of culture has permeated across the nation. They need to be shamed. They need to be held accountable. You know, John, they're buildings named after some of these people. And these survivors go around and they're seeing these people celebrated in the financial world, in the political world, honored. And they've committed the most heinous act. It's like, we may not agree on much. I think most Americans agree you don't rape American girls. Like that's that's the one you don't cross. Don't rape any girls. None. But, well, let me give you an introduction here before we get started. So, Ro Khanna, Representative for California 17th Congressional District in Silicon Valley, an advocate for progressive economic patriotism reducing inequality in ethical tech governance. And most significantly, you had the courage to cosponsor along with Representative Massey, the bill to fully release the Epstein files to the public. And that's really why you're here. Husband Doridu and father of two children, and I've heard I'm told you're here to break break some new news here as well. So I'm excited about that. And, you know, while we're on while we're on the Epstein stuff, I looked at Polymarket on Polymarket, they give a 3% chance that the evidence Epstein blackmailed politicians will be released by January 31st, only a 3% chance. Anything that has to do with government accountability or doing the right thing always has a very, very, very low chance that it's going to happen on Polymarket. What do you think that is? That's sad. That's sad. It's 3%. Because we pulled off the almost impossible getting the bill through the house, through the Senate, the president to sign it. And having a judge now order all the files released, the fact that people still don't believe government, I mean, this should be a wake up call. We've got a crisis in this country of trust. And I'll tell you what the files are that need to be released, the witness statements, the prosecution memos, and we'll know who the people are to hold accountable. Good, good. Real quick, everybody gets a gift. Here you go. There are vigilance league gummy bears made in the USA, legal in all 50 states. I'm gonna, does this give you like some secret power? Nope. I wish it did. Does it, you know, I do I get to like take these and then go meet Pam Bondi get the files out through, you know, I hope so. I love it. I'll give you an extra bag for and then I have a Patreon account. It's a subscription account. We've turned it into quite the community. And so you're welcome. And so I offer, I offer them the opportunity to ask every guest a question. So this is from Braxton Ballard, Congressman Connop with the current delay of the Epstein file release and lack of clarity in the information that is provided. What actions do American citizens have to begin demanding justice? They need to say first why this matters. Because you know what politicians say, oh, people just care about healthcare costs. They do. They care about housing costs. Oh, rowing, mancy. This is a conspiracy theory. It's a distraction. People don't care. Let him know, first of all, your congressman, your senator, your politicians that you care that rich and powerful people can't play by their own rules. And you want to know who these people are so they're prosecuted and held accountable. And that you're disgusted that young girls were raped on a rape island and abused. And you don't think it's a conspiracy theory that you want to know who the other powerful men are. Look, you either believe massy me and the survivors and people like Marjorie Taylor Greene that this is one of the greatest scandals. And there are a lot of powerful people who raped these girls or covered it up and are hiding behind it. Or you believe that it's a hoax. There's no in between. You either think I'm a liar, massy's a liar, Marjorie Taylor Greene's a liar, the survivors are a liar, or you believe that something disgusting happened. So if we have that kind of outrage and then you massy and I, this is my fight, I'm not giving up, massy's not giving up. We've taken on a lot of interests. I don't care. Like I'm going to fight every day I'm in Congress until these files are released. And we just put to a judge to create a special master to get these documents out. There are millions of these documents. I know where which documents have the information. And we need people amplifying it. When we, massy and I do something, blast it all over to the members of Congress. Tell the president that the MAGA base, you know what's most helpful is when the MAGA base speaks up. Because he doesn't care about people like me who voted for Kamala Harris. He doesn't care about people who are upset or have impeached him twice. I mean, he's like, well, screw them. I want, he cares about people who voted for him. He cares about people who are with him. And if they say to him, you know, Mr. President, like we're with you and all your other stuff, but not this, that's what's going to make a difference. I've seen a lot of people reverse their opinions about a lot of very big podcasters dropping like flies, you know, in this, in this administration. But how many, how many files are there? There are, there's 300 megabits is what Cash Patel said, the FBI director, and they've released one so far megabit. So it's like they've released less than 1%. So how is that legal? Isn't, isn't it illegal what they're doing? Well, it's illegal. It's obstruction of justice. A new president could prosecute them for what they're doing. They realize this and that's why Pam Bondi has now said to the judge, okay, we have millions more documents we need to release. We need more time. And so why do they need time? It's a fucking digital file. Why do you need time? So they've got actually two-thirds of the Southern District of New York attorneys working on this apparently. Working on what? On, on, on redactions. Look, they need to look for some redactions, which is the survivors. But you know what? They've released some files with the survivor's names, but not the people who abuse the survivor's names. So they're claiming that they've got to get the survivor's names out. Fine. They're legitimate. They are legitimately, proactively, protecting pedophiles. They are protecting pedophiles at this point. By redacting the abusers' names. They're by, by, by- The White House, listen up, everybody. The fucking White House is protecting pedophiles. You hear that? They're fucking protecting pedophiles. That's what the fuck they're doing. And they're doing it because these people are rich, because they were donors, because they're powerful politicians. And look, I don't want to stoke baseless allegations, but it's clear to me that there's been some connections to foreign governments. Which foreign governments? Well, there's connections of, certainly in the, in the files to Israel, we need to know what, what those connections are. There have been questions and connections to Russia and the Russian oligarchs. We need to know what that information is. And from survivors' lawyers, they're saying there are other national security agencies involved. I mean, think about it. How does Epstein, as a school teacher, end up with a half a billion dollars? That's a great question. He didn't invent AI. You know, he's not like those founders who came to you doing some tech company. He's there and he's getting money from all these people. And he's got this ring of sex trafficking going on, where he's farming out girls to different people. And he's having these parties on Epstein's rape violent. Like, how is this not the biggest scandal that you got these rich, powerful people in our society who think they get to play by their own set of rules, you know what, what upsets me, what pisses me off is people like you go and take all this risk with your life in Iraq, in Afghanistan. The guys, whatever you think of Venezuela, the guys who took the risk of their lives with that, they have this honor to the country, sacrifice for our values. And you got rich and powerful people think they've made a bunch of money, who can exploit American girls or girls who are girls, immigrants and have no consequence and get away with it. It's un-American. It's the most un-American selfish thing that totally degrades the service of people who do honorable things like, where are the military uniform and serve the nation. And that's why I want to stick it to them. This whole Epstein class needs to go. And to me, this is the biggest issue in American politics. I mean, I'm biased because it's something I've devoted now this a lot of my life to. But if we're going to allow rich and powerful people to do whatever they want in this country, and what's more elite impunity than abusing a young girl, if you're going to allow that, then you don't have a country. You don't have values. You don't have a democracy. 100% agree with it. All right. Let's talk about one of the most underrated organs in your body, your liver. It's doing over 500 functions every single day, filtering out what you consume, supporting digestion, energy, and metabolism. And most of us never think about it until something feels off. Modern life is tough on your body. Process foods, stress, late nights, everyday environmental elements all add up. And your liver is working overtime to keep things running smoothly. 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Do you think that this was a blackmail operation? I suspect that it was. And I like a honeypot. What makes you believe that? Have you seen anything? Well, survivors and survivors lawyers. I mean, I think that there are people that were rich and powerful folks who conveniently were given access to these parties or access to these girls. And Epstein in turn had a lot of information and a lot of context and was able to facilitate a lot of meetings. Now, I don't know what his motive was. Was he doing what was who was he doing the bidding for? That's why we need the files out. You know, you've got a background in intelligence. You'd have better sense than me, but I know that it's not something doesn't smell right. It doesn't smell right that you have someone contact the FBI in 1996, Maria, and say that this guy is abusing young girls and the FBI doesn't look into it. Not only do they not look into it, our government and every person in the media has spent the last 30 years saying she was a liar. She never contacted the FBI. And it's only because of Massey and my law that part of the documents that came out was her complaint to the FBI in 1996. 30 years later, she's vindicated. But there is something deeply rotten about what happened. And I want to know the financial interests who paid this guy, what his motive was to try to get all these rich and powerful people. I mean, don't you think it's a bit hard that he's talking to prime ministers and politicians and head bankers and they all are going down to this? Everybody thinks it's odd. Everybody thinks it's odd. And if there's nothing to hide, here's what I don't understand. All these people are saying, it's a hoax. It's a conspiracy. Massey and Conor out there, they're stoking conspiracy. You know how you settle it? What conspiracy? They're like, oh, they're, they're claimed. This is ludicrous. Their claim is their claim is the only bad guy is Epstein and Maxwell and everyone else, it's all, it's all, it's just Epstein and Maxwell who was a pervert and that and we're, we're focused on a dead guy who was a pervert and give it up. No one else was involved. Okay. If that's what you believe that Epstein and Maxwell pulled this off with 1200 girls and survivors and all the girls and the women now are lying about the other rich and powerful people. And then he just happened to make a half a billion dollars and he just happened to email every powerful person in the world, including the current president and past presidents and heads of states around the world. You know, most people can't even shake hands or get within a thousand feet of a president and this guy knows them all and it, but it was just that he was a sexual pervert and no one else was involved. If that really is the case, then release the damn files, release the files and prove Massey and me a liar, but there's, there's no gray here. Either Massey and I and the survivors are telling the truth or we're lying. So expose us. If, if you think we're lying, expose us. You'd end, you'd end our political careers, but I know that I'm telling the truth. Massey knows that he's telling the truth and I'm willing to take on the wrath of powerful interests because ultimately until we hold a corrupt class accountable, people aren't going to trust government and I'm, you know, I'm more liberal than you. I'm a progressive. I want the government to do stuff, healthcare, childcare. How do I make the case when people say the government is corrupt? I got, you got to have transparency in government. Well, I mean, what are these, what are the files? Who wrote the files? Where did they come from? Are they FBI files? Are they Epstein's files? Are they Masad's files? Are they Russian files? What are the, what are the files? Who is keeping tabs on all this shit? So some of the files are the FBI. That's the most straightforward thing. They're basically 1200 survivors and they're lawyers who meet with an FBI agent and were interviewed and they ask these survivors, tell us what happened to you. Tell us who else was involved. They're called 302 statements. Those statements should come out. They haven't released a single one of those. That's the first thing they should release. And then the FBI goes and interviews these men. Suspects, some of them may be innocent. I'm not saying everyone who the FBI interviews is guilty, but they have memorandum of that. They say, okay, when did you show up to the island? What were you doing? Why did you meet Epstein? They should release all of that. They don't, they have not released that. Then you have, so those are the FBI files. Then you have the Justice Department that took Epstein's computer and he's, they've got all his emails. They've got the photographs. They've got his correspondence. They should release all of that. They haven't released any of that. We know that evidence in the Epstein computer will show who else was involved. Then you've got the Justice Department having these prosecution memos. Why does that matter? Because there was a brave assistant US attorney who said there's 60 counts against Jeffrey Epstein back in Florida in the early 2000s, 2007, and they told her drop the case only charging with two counts. When does that happen? 58 counts vanish. A guy who's raping underage girls only gets charged with two counts is let out while under arrest to go continue to rape and abuse underage girls. Show us what those other 58 counts were. Show us why you decided not to prosecute. And then in 2019, there were co-conspirators who were named. Okay, Epstein wasn't alone. Suddenly though, those co-conspirators are, are released. We don't have to prosecute the co-conspirators. Well, there's a prosecution memo explaining why the co-conspirators should have been prosecuted. Release that. So we know why you chose to not prosecute people. Who are you protecting? Look, if you're not moved by the fact picturing like a seventh grader being raped on an island or think of like an eighth grader at a party with multimillionaires and politicians being paraded around naked and people with, you know, drinks in their hand laughing. If you're not disgusted by that, be disgusted by the fact that rich and powerful people are so influential in this country that they had a president campaign on releasing the files. They've had a house of representatives pass a law, the Senate pass a law, and they still can't get the damn files out. Like, doesn't that just make you disgusted? I want to know what the repercussions are. I mean, because the deadline was December 19th, if I remember correctly. Yes. Right? Yeah. It's January 9th. Yeah. What, what are the repercussions? Are there any repercussions? I haven't seen any politicians have any fucking repercussions ever. Well, there are repercussions. First of all, they thought, okay, they're going to do the release and people are going to forget about it. They'll release a bunch of BS and then no one's going to care. And one of the reasons that I appreciate your voice is that you're not, you're calling them on that. You're not letting them get away with it. And they were shocked. Christmas Eve, they come out and say, okay, no, no, no, we've got more documents because they realized that their own base, the MAGA base wasn't letting them get away with this. So they come out. Now in January, and they say to the judge, we've got three million more documents, five million more documents. We're going to release them in these next few weeks. And Massey and I went to the judge and said, you need to supervise this and see how these documents come out. Now, if they don't do it, there's three repercussions. Massey and I will be introducing inherent contempt next week, which is only requires the house to pass it. And Pam Bondi can be personally fine up to $10,000 every day that the documents don't come out. That's it. No, that's the first. The second thing is she's breaking the law and she and other people in the Justice Department can be put in jail. I mean, they can be prosecuted. Now, I don't think Donald Trump's going to do it, but we're going to have a new president and then new president can do it. They'll all be pardoned so that will never happen. You think he'll pardon all of them? Even, uh, yeah. Of course. Why wouldn't he? Well, their career Justice Department officials, who if they're along with this, I mean, you have to pardon a lot of people. There are hundreds of attorneys reviewing this stuff. It'd be a pretty big conspiracy if everyone is breaking, breaking the law. But yeah, I mean, look, it may be a case that it takes a new president to get all of this out. And some people get away with it. But, you know, I'm concerned about the destruction of evidence too. I mean, making sure that the evidence is not destroyed. The- How would you do that? How would you destroy- How would you ever be certain that the evidence wasn't destroyed? Or it hasn't been already? Well, look, I- You can't be certain, but the survivors lawyers have seen the files. Some of the survivors lawyers. So they would know if there's things missing. Their career Justice Department officials have seen the files. And it- Now, if you're part of the group that are destroying these files, you're taking a big risk because you're violating the law. You could be prosecuted. I mean, it's not just people in Trump's circle. You're a career prosecutor. You're really risking your career if there's prosecution. So I do think we're going to get to the truth of the matter, whether we're going to get accountability for Bondi and Patel. I mean, we're trying everything we can, but ultimately, if Trump pardons them, yeah, they get away with it. I mean, let's just reverse engineer this. So you say the only thing that needs to be- Maybe you didn't say the only thing. The way- The main thing. The main thing that needs to be redacted is 1200 names. Correct. The victims' names. Yeah. You're a Silicon Valley guy. You mean to tell me we can't create a fucking AI program that just redacts the names in about, I don't know, three minutes? Yeah. All three million files in there, just blacks amount. We can't- All the people over there in Silicon Valley, Palantir, all these things, they can't- They can't figure out how to make a program that just redacts that real quick? They could. I'm sure they could. I know. I'm being a little facetious here, but- But they could. Yeah. No, look, I mean, obviously, they want to drag their feet. They'll claim, okay, that's not enough. They needs to be human check on AI. Fine. Massey and I are less concerned about the time. If they had come back to us and said, look, you're pushing too fast on December 19th, we're going to do it by March 15th. Fine. The problem we have is they're not releasing the actual documents. They're releasing fluff. I mean, here and there, they gave us something, but they're not releasing the witness memorandum. They're not releasing the Epstein files. They're protecting people. Trump is out there himself saying, yeah, I got a lot of people get hurt. I don't want my buddies to get hurt. That's what I don't get. I really don't get why he doesn't just come out and get these files out. What is the force? What is holding it back? Because he's- It's a blackmail operation. What do you think is holding them back? Say it. But I- What do you think? I mean, I don't know. I don't know. What do I think? Yeah. I think it's Israel. I think Israel, Mossad is holding this shit back. That's what I think. Have you seen anything that- that any context here that might make you believe that in the recent- Like- Like- In the last six months, last year? Like I've said, I have reason to believe that foreign governments were involved and that the names that have come up have been Russia and Israel. What- What the level of involvement? I have no idea. And- But there's some force more powerful than just campaign donors involved in covering this up. Because otherwise it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense why they're fighting so hard to keep these files. Like you can say a lot of things about Donald Trump. He understands politics. He don't get elected president twice. He knows this thing is hurting him. It's the one issue that is hurting him amongst his base. So why wouldn't he just get the files out? Yeah. And- And- And that's what Marjorie Taylor-Green was saying. Like this thing was never about trying to go after Trump. And there's actually no evidence that I've seen that he was involved in the abuse of underage girls. We haven't seen any evidence of that. There are other rich and powerful men. So why if you're the president, wouldn't you just say, okay, like get it out there? I don't get it. There's some force bigger than that, that is holding back us getting to the truth. And that's what should be disturbing to Americans, other than that, like our culture is- needs a moral reckoning that this- that we allow this to happen. What are the forces that are preventing us from doing this? And are- And are we going to get people actually willing to stand up to it? I mean, it seems like you got a lot of people standing up to it. I mean, I don't know what else everybody can do, but everybody's screaming at- I don't- I don't know anybody that's not screaming at the top of their lungs, releases damn files, except the administration. Invite the vice president back, ask him, he could get involved. Oh, they're not going to come back here, Ro. Really? No. He's got- but Trump may not, he needs to- he's gonna- he wants to run, he's gotta come back into my head. I hope he does. I would love for him to come back, but I don't know, I've been pretty hard on him lately. Well, I- I just think, look, he was a- we disagree, we go back and forth, but I think he could be a constructive force here. He should- he should be the guy saying, well, let's get- get these files out. Like, does he want to have this as a liability? Why? I mean, he said it three years ago. He was- I just retweeted it today. Yeah. No, I mean, he should be- he should be out there saying, get all the stuff out there. Like, this is a new generation of politicians, Democrats like Ro Khanna, May, Massey, Marjorie Tiller-Greed, yeah, it's a previous generation that did all this horrible stuff, expose it at the F.C. class. You know, when Democrats have fallen, I haven't had any sympathy. First guy taken out was a British ambassador. He constructed Tony Blair's victory. The reality is Larry Summers was a Treasury Secretary for Bill Clinton, and he was- he's caught up in all of this. And I said that, you know, I support the Clintons coming and testifying fine. If it's Democrats, Republicans, I don't care. Massey doesn't care. What was the deal with the Clintons? They were supposed to show up. They should show up. They- they're- I support Palmer, that he's the Republican. He said, look, let's have them in front of the committee. And I- they're scheduling it. But I've said, yeah, they should- they should answer what they know. So they did not refuse to show up? They have not refused to show up. Okay, so that's- Yeah, I mean- Oh, media bullshit. It's- now, the scheduling, like, they need to do it soon, and we need to have- they should show up. They should do the deposition and- and you know it, but there- there shouldn't be a selective release. Like, don't have the Justice Department just put Bill Clinton's pictures in there because you know you want to make political headlines. Release everything. I mean, so play it straight. Massey and I have played it straight. If it's 90% Democrats and their files, I don't care. If it's 90% Republicans, I don't care. Vance should have the same thing. He's not in the files. He's in his 40s. You know, it's a bunch of people who are now in their 70s and 80s who are caught up in all of this stuff. It- it- there needs to be a cleaning. That's why I said this Epstein class needs to go. And I think we need- you know, we- we- we- the- the only thing that's going to get this out is the MAGA base because that's- that's what got the bill passed. You know, Trump had- I don't think he even realized he signed my bill. I mean, we- we kept saying it was a Massey bill because it was a Republican bill. I don't think he's like, ah, I signed Ro Khanna's bill. He didn't- he didn't have a signing ceremony. We- Massey and I called. He didn't want to do a signing ceremony for the bill. But the point is, we had 70 Republicans willing to vote for my bill in defiance of his opposition. Then he realized, okay, I don't want that. So he said, I'll sign the bill. The only thing that'll get him to release these files is a Marius says, look, we're with you on a lot of things. We voted for you three times. We disagree with Khanna on Medicare for All. We disagree with him on Venezuela. We disagree with him on- on- on- on Colin Gaddais. We're with you, Mr. President. But you know what? This MAGA- this- this Epstein stuff, he's right about that. Release these files. That's what we need. His base needs to demand this often. They are though. They are- am I missing something? They are. I don't think they've been vocal- not to the point where- where he thinks that he could lose them. I mean, they- he thinks, okay, they're upset on this one thing. They need to say like, this is a red line for us because you told us there were pedophiles in part of the government. You told us they're rich and powerful people who are corrupt. You said you were going to drain the swamp. You never pretended to be a perfect person. We knew, you know, okay, like many people, you had warts in your life, but you were going to clean up the system. You were going to expose the system. You haven't done that. Do that. That- that- that- that- whether it's Vance or Trump, they've got to get these files out. And they- they think out, you know, it's not the central issue. The cost of living is an issue. Affordability is an issue. I get all of that, but there's something deeper. There's something called morality. There's something called country's values. That's what this is getting at. They know this is- they know this is a big deal. They're- oh man, it makes me so fucking angry. How many- how many abusers do you think were involved? Do you know? I think there are two types of- three types of abusers. The ones who were actually raped underage girls. I would say maybe at least- it doesn't or a handful. I mean, I'm not saying that that's the- the- the biggest number, but I- there are people from- from just conversations with survivors who will know once the files are out. The second, people who showed up at these parties and saw young girls parading around and knew they were being abused and didn't say anything. That number is in the hundreds and covered it up. And then the third is people who were trafficking girls who were slightly over age, 19, 20, and being exploited who may have been raped as- when they were underage and saying, okay, yeah, do you have a girl for me? Where do I meet her? And technically it was over the age of consent, but anyone who looks at that will know they were abusing these girls in terms of the emotional physical damage to- to- to these girls. And all of that is in the files. Jeez. How long was this going on? Decades. Decades. Decades. 20, 30 years. 20, 30 years. That's why when people late- they do the got-your-question sometimes, oh, Ro, you- you guys didn't speak out about this enough in the Biden administration. And first of all, I did speak out in 2019, but second I say, yeah, we should have. We were wrong. This country has been asleep. Like, that's not a- that's not a- a- a- a- a reason not to care now. Now I've gotten to know these survivors. Like, yeah, all of us were guilty for 25 years, other than a few journalists, for not caring, for abandoning these girls. Fine. Guilty as charged. Now let's move on. Let's actually do something about it and get these files out. And that- that- that- that's the honest truth. Like, this is not a Trump thing or a Vance thing. This is an America thing. It's a crisis that we didn't care about these girls. We treated them- treated them as abandoned property for the gratification of- of- of rich and powerful people. And they didn't matter. How- how was- I mean, we know how- we know a lot of ways he was tied to Israel. He was as an Israeli. Maxwell's dad was involved with Mossad. I mean, he wears an IDF shirt and a bunch of the photos that were released. So we know that he's tied to Israel. How was he tied to Russia? There are survivors' accounts, again without the specific names, we're talking about Russian oligarchs who were involved in coming to the island, who were involved in the trafficking. There are accounts about him having access to Putin and being able to facilitate meetings with Putin in some of the documents. So he obviously had ties to both the oligarchs in Russia and to people close to Putin. And those are- that- that needs to be explored. I mean, it- like, what- why wouldn't you want to know if there- these other countries that have access to the most powerful people in our country and are getting information about that? Because it exposes them. That's the only thing I can think of. Am I missing anything with the ties to Israel? Look, I- I think you're right that there- there's- there are obviously ties. I've tried to be- you know, Masi and I've tried to be careful in that, you know, we want- we don't want to stoke something unnecessarily, but there- it needs to be- it needs to be examined and we need to get- get the facts out. And that- that- that the fact- that the fact that foreign governments are involved, every lawyer of the survivors who I've talked to and many survivors have said that that is the case. So, let's figure out the facts. Man. Man. What am I missing? What should I be asking you that I'm not asking about the Epstein files right now? How do we actually get them out? And I- I'd say this. Look, they're going to be a number of dates in January where they're going to do a document release. And so far, people have been paying attention. Every time they've done a document release, the server has crashed because so many people are looking at the documents. And every time they do that, they think, okay, we're done, people are satisfied they can move on. Don't let them move on. Every time they do a document release, if it's not actually the things they're- speak out, speak out on social media, tag bondy, tag blanchard, tag vans, tag Masi, Margie, Taylor, Green, me, Bulbert, say we want this information out. That's the only thing that- that you say, like, is Masi and my contempt going to work? We'll try. Is it- is future prosecution going to work? We'll try. It's when the American people speak out. That's why I flew down here. That's why I came here. Because I know you've got a lot of people following this. You've been on this before even I or Masi were on this. You've been speaking about this for years. Your audience cares about this. We need them to continue to fight for it. They're going to be pissed. Ro, let's take a quick break. When we come back, we'll get into some Roblox stuff. Sounds good. Perfect. New year, big goals and not a lot of time to cook. And that's why I've been using Factor. Factor are meals that are sent right to your front door designed by chefs and dietitians so that you can eat well without going to the store or cooking. What I like most is what goes into the food. Quality ingredients like lean proteins, colorful veggies, whole foods and healthy fats. No refined sugars, no artificial sweeteners and no refined seed oils. Factor makes it easy to stay on track whether your goal is healthier eating, calorie management or getting more protein. I've been reaching for the high protein meals. They're filling, they taste great, and make consistency easy. They rotate over 100 meals every week including high protein, calorie smart, Mediterranean style options, GLP-1 support ready to eat salads and the new muscle pro meals for strength and recovery. 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I think we've pretty much wrapped up the Epstein stuff, but I do want to ask you. I mean, you've talked to a lot of these victims, you've talked to their attorneys, you are their champion. What do these victims want to see happen? What are these poor girls that have been fucking raped over and over and over and over again? What do they want? They want to be seen and heard. That's why some of them cared about the law passing. Some people said first time I actually felt heard and seen by the American people. Many of them want to meet the president to explain to him what happened. So they have some sense that they're not being just labeled as a hoax. They've asked that can they go meet with him? They want the people who abuse them or stay quiet to be publicly exposed and to be held accountable. They don't want buildings named after them. They don't want them to see them on television being celebrated. They don't want to see them at powerful positions and corporations. And they want prosecution. I mean, the prosecution is the hardest part. They're not naive. They think that may be the hardest part, but they want some sense of acknowledgement by this country that what happened to them was wrong and disgusting. Do you think they'll ever see that? I do think that the House and Senate passing that was a big moment for survivors. If you watch the footage of them in tears and feeling heard. And by the way, for sexual assault survivors around the country saying finally the government is waking up and actually saying that there's a problem in this country. But I think it will be a betrayal of all of that if these files remain stuck. And until these files are released and they're released fully and we have some sense of accountability as a country, they're going to feel abandoned. There needs to be a reckoning sense of justice and before we can have people moving on and healing. Mm-hmm. Are you at all worried about the repercussions if it is fully disclosed? I mean, a lot of people think that the entire country's power structure will be decimated. A lot of people think that the entire world power structure will be decimated because so many people are involved in this. Do you have any fear about that? That the power structure will be in rubble? Because they were so many were involved with this? I think if it had, if this had been released 15 years ago, yes. But I think some of these people are no longer actively in power there towards the end of their careers. They just want this to go away. So now I think it can be exposed without that kind of disruption. But will it cause an enormous moral reckoning in this country? I think we're going to be embarrassed and shocked and angry and disgusted with ourselves as a people that we allowed it to happen. I think it's going to cause us to re-examine potentially relationships around the world and what we, what we allow to take place. I think it's going to allow, force us to re-examine the power that rich and powerful people have in this country over the justice system. The sense that there are elites who've gotten away with things you and I can't. Most people, they get a parking ticket. They get a camera light ticket and their car will get booted if they don't pay the tickets. That's the life for 95% of Americans. Then you got these 5% who are doing the most heinous things and laughing about it. Man, let's move on to Roblox. Another topic of not inspiration. You're doing the right thing. Sounds like you're the only one doing the right thing over there. Is it true that you're the first and only congressman to go up against Roblox? I was because of this kid, Schlapp, who you know. He showed so much courage. He was basically a whistleblower. I mean, there are people on Roblox who are acting as predators, pedophiles, taking advantage of kids or playing games. There was not- Still happening. Still happening. Not was. Still happening. But still happening when he started. Well, he's been kicked off the platform, which is why he's the past tense. It's still happening. But he was kicked off because he was going out and he was exposing these folks because Roblox wasn't doing it. No one was listening to him. He was basically kicked off the platform for doing this. As a guy from Silicon Valley, I said, this is crazy because the company is in my area. I said, I'm going to come to this 21-year-old kid's defense. People said, what are you doing? You're going to take on these billionaire founders? I said, yeah, I don't care. I took out in the Epstein class. Who cares about this? Man, good for you. We did a petition to support what Schlapp was doing and saying he should be reinstated in Roblox. They kicked him out. Let's let him back onto the platform. Let's have transparency of what are you doing to make sure that you don't have pedophiles and predators on your platform, preying on 12, 13, 14-year-old kids. Is he back on there? He's not yet. But all he was doing is saying, okay, I'm going to expose this guy who's a creepy old guy, having conversations with a young girl, young boy, because Roblox is not doing it. And so the response to that is to kick him off. Come on. And all he's fighting for is safety standards. I mean, your kids are on these platforms. They're playing games. Yeah, he just doesn't want a 12-year-old girl to be exploited sexually and have to carve slut into her forehead with razor blades. Seriously. That's the kind of shit they're doing on there. Did you know that? I didn't know that example. I didn't know that one, but I know they're doing it. There's a bunch of these. They've had women, not one, excuse me, girls, young girls, swallow razor blades. Oh my God. They had one commit suicide on camera. That's disgusting. It's disgusting, isn't it? We did, we uncovered a lot of this about a month ago, two months ago with Brian Montgomery. The day we released the episode, it took one week, $6 billion off their stock. And one week because of this episode. You know, I mean, that's, that's what you should have shut up on. I don't know if you had them on, but he, we're talking to him. Yeah. But he, you know, he's, he showed courage and the reality is, look, if you're a 44, 45, 50-year-old guy and you're talking to a 13-year-old girl online, that's unacceptable. Like that's my, you know, if you're a coach or something, fine, but there's no reason for a 50-year-old guy to be talking to a 13-year-old girl in a gaming site. Yeah. So how hard is this to detect? Like, they're like, well, we don't know if it's pedophilia. You don't have to have like people swallowing razors. Just you can't be talking to young girls being a 45-year-old guy in a gaming site. You can't be talking to young boys like, what the hell are you doing on there? And that's going on and it's rampant. And they hide behind, well, how do we know, we know based on common sense. If you wouldn't allow your own daughter to hang out with someone in a room unsupervised, playing a game, then you shouldn't be allowing it online. Yeah. I want to clarify too, that's not happening on Roblox. It's that 764 satanic cult that's pursuing the kids on Roblox, pulling them off and not doing it in these chathrooms and stuff. But Ryan has showed me tons of stuff that's going on on there. It's just horrific. It's all censored. But Ryan, look, this is the responsibility of technology companies, right? There's a lot of positives to allowing people to get information being on social media, but you can't have exploitation. You can't have pedophilia. You can't have pornography. You can't be having algorithms feed junk on social media to young girls where they're thinking of eating disorders or suicide. And we've allowed a lot of the social media to get out of hand and not protect our kids. And I'm the guy who represents Silicon Valley. I'm for innovation. I'm for technology. But you do that with common sense that you protect kids on these platforms. Speaking of Silicon Valley, how about that billionaire tax? How's that going? I've gotten quite a lot of hot water on that one. You know what I found out, though? You know who was the first person to propose one of these taxes, one of the few first people? Donald Trump, when he was ready for president at 2000, he called for a 14.5% tax on anyone making over $10 million. And he said, if you're wealthy, you can pay a tax. And since I don't know what he thinks now, but my point is this, look, I'm all for entrepreneurs and I'm all for people making billions of dollars. Fine. You're brilliant like Steve Jobs and build Apple? Great. You build Tesla, SpaceX? Great. I once said to Elon, stick the cars in Mars or something. You build all that wealth on. But we've got to have a social contract in this country where the wealth can't just be in the hands of the few. You've got to have some sense that every person working class families are going to benefit from that. And you get people having healthcare, child care, education. That's my view. Well, I mean, I'm not going to disagree with you and say that there is I mean, there's definitely a, there is a, there is a gap here and it's a fucking problem. But I mean, I mean, if you just look at history, every time this happens, the billionaires, I mean, the business owners, they just leave, they go somewhere else. And then there are no jobs. And so, and it sounds like that's what they're going to do if this tax goes through. So well, I think we have, it has to be designed in a way that you can't tax illiquid stocks. You can't tax companies that are still not profitable. You've got to get conversations with people who want to design it in a reasonable way and have a consensus on how to do it. So, I'm not saying that the, that you can't fix some of the design, but ultimately, the idea that having just a 1% tax a year, I mean, in a theory on building wealth, when you're, you make about 10% every year anyway in the stock market, and that you're going to use that to make sure people have healthcare and childcare and education. I just think that's what's going to prevent a revolution. You know, think about the guys who went in Venezuela, right? And like, they, they, they stick the landing despite being shot at. They wear the uniform. They give every single thing for this country. And you're saying to me, okay, if you're going to, let's say in a country wide, have a 1% tax on wealth that people are going to leave, like, come on, have some more patriotism. You have some loyalty to the country. I mean, just a caveat to that. I mean, what are you going to spend the money on? Where's the money going to go? I mean, look at our fucking cities, bro. Look at Chicago, St. Louis, San Francisco, LA, New York, tons of Minnesota right now. I mean, look at all this. Our cities are fucking trashed. We have a fentanyl problem. Yeah. I mean, and where's all the money going? It sure as fuck isn't going into this country. You know where it's going? It's going to Ukraine. It's going to Israel. It's going to fight war in Venezuela. It's going, it's going everywhere, but here. And we all see it. Everybody fucking sees it. Everybody sees another billion, another, another, another, more billions allotted to Ukraine, more billions allotted to Israel, more billions allotted to whatever, you know, it's just, it's, it everything seems to go out of the country. So why would any business owner want to pay more tax just to have it shipped out of the fucking country? Well, there I agree with you about the waste and the, look at the shit that just happened with the, with the, the learning centers and supposedly $9 billion has been, I'm not going to have earned the waste and the fraud, two things. It sucked out of the country. And then, I mean, on top of that, I mean, Scott Besant just said yesterday that there's approximately $600 billion in fraud in the U S. I mean, don't you think we might want to get a handle on that before we tax everybody more or tax the wealth, the wealthy more? I think we absolutely need to get a handle both on the overseas wars. I mean, we spent $6 trillion on Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm against these kinds of regime change wars. I'm against going and trying to do regime change in Venezuela. And now what do we want to occupy the country for three years? Think about how much that's going to cost. I voted against the billions of dollars that we gave Netanyahu when he was slaughtering people in Gaza. I was opposed, of course, to October 7th as a terrorist attack in Hamas. But we can't just be giving billions of dollars of offensive weapons for two years to Netanyahu. And I do believe that we need to stop a military budget of any of these endless wars. I mean, here's a great analogy. You're a dad. If your kids are fucking starving to death, what in somebody gives you in why would you give your money to your neighbors so that your neighbor's kids can eat instead of yours? Why would you do that? No, look, I think we have to first take care of our family. We have starving people here. We have people that are dying off fentanyl every day. We have been around to... So look, in Argentina, we're billing out Argentina's failed leadership. I'm all for focusing on not these endless wars, not wasting money overseas, focusing on building our communities. And I'm also forgetting we're the fraud, waste, and inefficiencies. FDR, who's one of my favorite presidents, New Deal, he said there's total local inefficiencies in government, wasted money in local government, state governments. I'm going to tackle that. And I'm also going to tax the wealthy to get people health care and childcare and jobs. I think we have to do both. But I spoke out on oversight yesterday about the fraud that was going on in Minnesota and other places. I wasn't like, okay, let's just defend it. I said, let's do an audit on all 50 states. Look at the inefficiency spending in Sacramento. Look at it in Minnesota. But look at it at all 50 states. And let's have an audit. Let's understand why we wasted money. Why did we waste money in the pandemic when unemployment, checks were claimed as fraud? And what were the projects that have been wasted and have a clear accountability so that people know that they're... Where their tax dollars are going. And you have to do that, if you have my view, that we want government to do health care and childcare and jobs. I mean, people may disagree with me that that's the obligation of government, but I feel that people should have basic education and health care to be able to have a decent life. But I've got the responsibility to take on a fraud and waste and abuse. And I don't think this should be partisan. Like I don't think we need to be defending wasteful, inefficient government. I mean, would it be... I don't think... I'm sure a lot of people would argue, but I mean, I think all in all, it is better for you and I and everybody in this country if we have a better education system. So I mean, I can't argue that. I don't want my taxes to go up. I don't want to fucking pay for it. But yes, I can't argue that. It would be great if everybody had health care. And it was actually affordable. But I mean, would it be... I mean, is it even a possibility to just think and go, you know what, we're not going to tax them anymore. Let's get this waste, fraud and abuse under control and reallocate those funds to what you want to do. I mean, why couldn't we do it like that rather than penalize them? Because look, I'm a business owner, Ro. I bust my fucking ass to bake what I have. I mean, 12 to 18 hour days, every day, seven days a week, my team works their ass off. I don't want to pay for everybody else's shit. I have a drive. I'm caught, you know, and it takes a lot of work. And I do not want to pay for somebody else to sit on their ass at home. It's just... But did you... I don't know your story. If did you go to public school? Did you... I did go to public school. So did I, right? You want a decent public school for everyone? I don't know about you. I had teachers who believed in me and paved the way. I would grow up in a middle-class family, but I didn't have to worry about being able to see a doctor, get a physical. You know, I just want the basics. And the reality is, I mean, by being honest about the math is, yes, we need to go about waste and fraud. I don't think the math works to be able to get health care for everyone and to be able to get a decent education for everyone, trade schools or college, if you just do that without having the extraordinary wealthy pay a bit more in tax. Look, my district, where you get... You have more people on for my district than anyone. Probably. We've got 18 trillion dollars of wealth. One third of America's wealth is in my 50-mile radius district. Five companies over a trillion dollars. Nvidia, Google, Apple, Tesla and Broadcom. And they asked Jensen, the immediate CEO, he said, yeah, okay, fine, I'll pay a tax or something. I love living in Silicon Valley. Whatever you think about the design of this tax, you can't have a nation where you've got some places with 18 trillion dollars. And then where I grew up in Pennsylvania, in Bucks County, the steel mill, ferrless works, shut down in Western Pennsylvania, hollowed out factories, all going over to China or Mexico, people feeling like their kids and grandkids aren't going to have a shot at the American dream. Like that's not a country that works. So why can't you say, okay, we've got to get this prosperity, not just in Silicon Valley, not just in the AI revolution. We need to industrialize America, have a Marshall plant for America, build up new factories and industry, build up new trade schools, build up new tech centers and jobs across the country, have healthcare and basic public education for the country. That's what I call economic patriotism. It's to build up this country. And I don't think that's a bad, bad long term because it's saying that we want prosperity, but a basic shot for everyone in this country. It'd be great. I'd just love to see the waste fraud abuse gone first before we all have to pay more taxes, but that's just me and everybody else. Let me ask you this though. Yeah, I don't know if you're a billionaire. Now you don't have to tell me. I'm definitely not a billionaire. But if you became, when you become a billionaire, if you thought that the money was actually going positively, right? Like we're actually building factories in Western Pennsylvania, jobs for kids in Warren, Ohio. Right. If I knew the money was going to the right place, I would do it. You would do it. I would do it. But I don't believe the money is going to go to the right place. I mean, I donate a lot of money to kids, this kind of stuff that we're talking about. Organizations that are doing something to protect kids. That's the thing that's nearest and dearest to my heart. I spend a lot of time and donate a lot of money to veteran organizations because I'm a veteran. And I donate to single mothers. That's another thing that's near and dear to my heart. But I still do my part. I'm not the asshole that's keeping everything. I care about people. I want people to succeed. I want them to be successful. I want them to get over their trauma. I love good people. But when I see all this stuff, when I see illegals being housed in hotels and I see the Somali stuff that was just uncovered by by my neck, I mean, it's just like, man, I just, when I see another couple of billion go to another country, I'm like, man, why the what? To go to Chicago, this place looks like a fucking war zone. Why are we sending money overseas? I mean, yeah, I would love to help all the people overseas. But look at this place. This is where we live. Now that I agree with you. We're wasting all this money on Argentina and Venezuela. We should be focused more on Virginia and Pennsylvania and Ohio. And people here. But let me ask you your genuine view, because I know you're, you know, a little bit more conservative than I have. We used to have a national aspiration, a national project of doing great things as Americans, right? We won World War II. We built up Europe with the Marshall Plan. We built up our own industry and doing amazing things. We won the Cold War. We went to the moon. We started the internet through DARPA and NSF. We invented GPS. We invented AI through the government. How do we convince people that you can have public excellence again, that you can have national projects that work again, that you can have a sense that we can all do something with government that makes life better? Because I agree with you right now. People think it's corrupt with Epstein. They waste money. But you can't have a great nation if people don't believe it's possible to do great things with our government. And we've lost that ability of faith other than the military. People think, okay, we've got a great military. But how do we have that more broadly as a national aspiration? I'll tell you, we have to have trust in you guys. And that's at an all-time low. And we have to have trust in the institutions. And that's at an all-time low. And I think you'd know why all of those are at an all-time low. Because exactly what you're fighting right now. A lot of stuff that happened within the last administration. And the one before that, the one before that. But I mean, we haven't seen any of these agencies be held accountable for going rogue. We haven't seen any politicians held accountable for going rogue. I mean, and so why would any of us believe you? I mean, it's, bro, I just, just going to be honest, it's so fucking bad now. I don't even think I'm going to vote the next time. Because what's the point? What's the point? I sat there and interviewed everybody. They all fucking lied to my face. Nothing has happened. Let me challenge you, Sean. Look, we've had people scale the cliffs of Normandy, right? So you and I could be free. John Lewis was beaten on the Edmund Pettus Bridge. My grandfather, he was an American, he was an Indian. He was part of Gandhi's movement for independence. He was in jail for four years so that India could be a free country. So my parents could come here. There are so many people who have sacrificed for this country to build this country. You did when you wore the uniform. We can't give up out of cynicism on the American project. It's like we have been so blessed with people who have sacrificed so much more. And to say, look, it's all corrupt, we're going to give up is to squander the sacrifices of people who built America. I hear you. I mean, I'm dedicated. Get up and run for Congress. Get up and... I'm not running for Congress. I've thought about it. I run for president. I mean, run for, you know, you never know. There was another guy who didn't have elective office who did pretty well. I think I'm good on that. I actually thought about it, but... You would be great. Well, the people that I thought that I talked to about it that are in there said that I have a lot more influence out here than I... That's true. That is true. You do. But look, anyone... I'm not saying this. A lot of people, it's easy to tear things down. The harder thing is how do we build it up? And you got a huge platform. We have to have trust, though. I mean, when I have... I don't even know how many politicians I've had sit across from me, you know, over the years. And... Man, I can't think of a single one of them that got in there and did what they said they were going to do. Maybe even attempted to do what they say they were going to do. That's a... That's sad. It is fucking sad. How do you assess my honesty here? We got to go and see. Because you're going against the grain. Well, Basi and I are willing to... You say we're willing to risk our seats, right? Whatever you say. And you're coming together with the enemy. Or, you know... Yeah. Not the enemy. You know what I mean? I mean, it's been very divisive. And so, you know, that's... And that's one thing that I've been trying to display here. That's why I brought Gavin Newsom on. That's why I brought Hunter Biden on. I want to show that, hey, we can have a conversation. We'll try to kill each other. I didn't know Hunter was that smart till I heard about your thing. I was like, you know, because he was so caricatured in the media. Then I was like, wow, the guy has like complex thoughts. Probably going to get in trouble from Hunter. But I was like, first time I heard him was on your show. We're like, and he held his own. So you did him a big, big favor. I like him. I like him. I like him. That thing went viral. But look, I think we need people like you to participate in the political process to help to rebuild the process. Because the thing that concerns me about China, I was just in China. I'm now the top Democrat on the China Committee. They got 20% youth unemployment. They don't have nearly, in my view, the kind of innovation that we do, or the sense of having the best and brightest from around the world want to come to America. They're not lining up to go to China. They're lining up to come to the United States of America. So what is our problem? Our problem is cynicism and corrosiveness and division, where we give up on the government and we give up on our ability to self govern. And that's a real risk. Like, okay, we did Epstein the Falsar and coming out. We aren't being able to stop money in politics. We're seal this waste and fraud. If we give up on having a national purpose, national aspiration, we lose this country. And I don't know how that to me is the hardest thing to fight. It's like, I can tell you the programs I'm for, but how do we overcome the despair, the anger, the cynicism? How do we inspire this country? The way, whether you were John F. Kennedy or FDR, Lincoln, Reagan, who I disagreed with, how do we create that sense of like, yeah, I want America to succeed, succeed. You know, I felt like the last time I felt like that. John, I have to prove to the people that it's not a two tiered class system. That's how it's, and that is likely the only way it's going to happen. Somebody's ass is going to have to get pinned to the fucking wall. And we're all going to have to see it to believe that there is not a two tiered system, but there is a two tiered system. It's very obvious. You're seeing it right now. Yeah. And that's what the Epstein class is all about. It's one set of rules for the powerful. And by the way, look what they did to this country, right? Symbolically, not just the people who were pedophiles, but this Epstein class of rich and powerful people, they watched his jobs left America. All the industries hollowed out. They didn't care. Profits were going up. Their shareholders were doing fine. They watched as people's costs of healthcare went up, childcare went up. They watched as 70% of Americans don't think the American dream matters. They got us in all these wars overseas and didn't make us safer. So people have had it with that class of folks. They want something new. They want something different. They want people who are going to take on a corrupt elite. And I think that's what I'm saying. We need people like you or others in your show to get out there, run, get, start to take the government back and to have a sense of transparency, not fraud, not standing up against a corrupt elite, and then offering a sense of a vision for what we can do as a country. We've all seen it. The Department of War is operating in a world that's changing faster than ever. That's why so many guests on my show talk about the importance of continued innovation and technology in the military. But here's the problem. 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But no, seriously, I mean, they are frustrated. I can see it on their face. They're demoralized. Yeah, I hear that because there's a different sense of camaraderie. It's not just, I think, the folks in the Seals. They can't get on a committee if they don't play ball. All they care about, I don't know about all of them, but the few that I'm speaking about that I'm close with, they just want to do the right thing, and they can't. And it's sad. It's sad. Yeah, no, I mean, I hear that. I mean, why do we need term limits? I think in these kind of four term limits. I am. I'm one of the few Democrats I worked with, Brian Fitzpatrick and Jody Erickson. I don't think you should do more than 12 years as a House member or two terms as a senator. Some people, they're 30, 40 years. Come on, do something else with your life. I think we got to get rid of all the PAC money and lobbyist money, super PAC money. I'd love to see that. Those two things, you do. You don't take any PAC money. I don't take PAC money. I don't take lobbyist money. I don't have a super PAC. You just get rid of PAC money, lobbyist money. You create term limits, and you make sure members of Congress can't become lobbyists. I've been on the Armed Services Committee for 10 years, and I didn't serve in the military, but I've developed such admiration and respect for people who have served. If you know what a lot of people do after they're on the Armed Services Committee, they don't go wear the uniform. They don't go like Theodore Roosevelt to go fight the wars or Abraham Lincoln did. They go and work for the defense companies that they were supposed to regulate as lobbyists. Stop members of Congress from becoming lobbyists. You do those three things, and you would clean up so much of our country. I respect people who sort of disagreed with me, let's say, on the wealth tax. But what I don't respect is people say, okay, now I'm going to pour in millions of dollars to take this guy out because I disagree with him. Like, how do we have that kind of system of government where people can use their wealth for power, where people can stay in Congress for years just to accumulate power and no turbulence? We've got to return to basic democracy. People who wear the uniform, you know why your guys, your friends see it most is because they sacrifice, and it's a totally different culture in the military. It's all about the mission. That's the difference. It's mission. Mission first, ego second. Politics is ego first, mission second. And you know what, I'm tired of the charismatic politicians. How about courage as the new charisma? Like, I don't need the guy who's going to be the entertainer or the charmer or the like, do we think in the military the best person is the guy who's the funniest or the most charming or the person who's kind of got the most magnetism? No. It's the person who, despite being shot five times, still lands the mission. And the person who cares more about the guys in his battalion than his own life. How about we start to get people of courage and substance in politics? And it's not their ideas. It's not their intellect. It's not their degrees. It's frankly, it's just courage and putting people first instead of putting themselves first. And that's the culture of the military actually in terms of what works. They're no big egos. It's all about the mission. And that's what we've lost in our politics. We don't, the last time we had a mission, I disagreed with the war in Iraq. But the last time I really felt that was when George W. Bush, after 9-11, was saying, you know, on the rocks, and he's like, those people who did this to us, they're going to hear from us. It was a sense of, okay, like I remember, I was, that they stopped the Flyers game because I grew up in Philadelphia to hear the president of the United States talk about what this country was going to do. Like, how do we get that mission again as a country? I think I just told you, but we got to see it happen. Well, I'm just curious, what percentage of Congress is for term limits? It's not a lot. I'll bet. It's not a lot. How many of you are there, two or three? No, they're candidly, they're more Republicans or for it than Democrats. Why do you think that is? I'm just curious. You know, the real reason, one reason, which is legitimate, but changing, is when we had the Jim Crow South, and when it was very, very hard for African Americans to run for office and win statewide, the only way the black community would be able to gain a voice is to get to Congress, because they couldn't win statewide and then develop seniority in Congress. So, some people feel like, okay, finally, they have a voice. Now, if you're going to have term limits, you're going to get rid of that voice that's been building since the civil rights movement. That's one substantive reason. But a lot of it is also cultural. I think Republicans feel like they do other stuff. They're business owners. Military Democrats have a love for public service. So, that's a good thing, because we think government can do important things, it shouldn't do important things, but it can also become a sense of, well, let other people have a turn. Don't just do 40 years. You know, one of the reasons I was for Bernie Sanders is he was an outsider. He was like, yeah, I want a new group of people in charge. It wasn't even his policies. It was just like the same group of people are running things. Let me break up the system. And that's why you had so many people drawn to outsider candidates. But, yeah, they're more Republicans than Democrats. But I think it's also generational. A new generation, I think, can be for term limits. But you get rid of, you get term limits, and you get rid of the money and politics. And those are the two biggest things that would clean up the system. What do you think would happen if the country's power structure, let's say all the upstain files get released, we prosecute, picture perfect, everything you want, and the victims. Power structure is gone. What do you think the consequences of that are? Like I said, a lot of it is the older generation. But I think the consequences of that is you would have a totally new group of people start to get into our Congresses and into our positions of leadership. I think you would have a sense of accountability, like, okay, you can't just call up your buddy to stop prosecution. You can't just call up your buddy to have a different set of rules. I think it would start to get our country back to the founding values of what it used to be that you were in public service for public service. It would be a reset for America. Well, I mean, when we talk about hundreds of people that are the abusers, I think you said hundreds, right? They're direct abusers or trafficked or covered up. How many people, I mean, I don't know if you have any more insight than I do, but probably you have. I mean, you've studied this so deep, based on your stuff. I mean, the only insights I have that you may not have, I don't know how many survivors you've talked to as survivors lawyers, but my information that I've been repeating to you is what's coming from survivors, from survivors lawyers. Okay. Okay. Do you have any indication of how many people are in politics or? Quite a few. I mean, from the... I don't know how many are still in power, but I know there were a lot of, there were politicians who were involved, people in politics who went to Epstein's rape island, who engaged in the trafficking of women. I think there were a lot of people in New York and finance, and there were people in politics that were caught up in this. Now, they're probably formal politicians by now, but it was a group of people who didn't think even it was anything wrong. Like, they just thought this is their gratification. It's like they're powerful, they get this, they've conquered, and they're going to exploit these girls and no one's going to touch them. A lot of people don't realize how much outdated banking is costing them. Monthly fees, overdraft charges, and minimum balances that punish you for not having enough. That's how traditional banks have worked for years. Chime is built differently. It's fee-free, mobile-first banking designed for everyday people, not just the 1%. 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They're not going to the barbecues. They're not in their PTAs. And that, that's part of what the country is lost, right? When our founders envisioned democracy, they envisioned it, the power with people in community. And now if you're in one of those communities, so you're like the little league coach who everyone loves. And you say, okay, I want to run for Congress. Like what chance do you have if one of these kind of multi millionaires or billionaires moves into your district and says, no, I want to run for Congress. I'm going to put in $10 million on TV. Like who do you think is going to get elected? The billionaire. And that's the problem. It's like the people are, the money has so skewed it. The, like you're, the people who are just like decent. Like, okay, maybe you don't want the little league coach being president. And I say, it's like, okay, president, I say, it's you got to really, like, you've got to know a lot of stuff and I want someone to really understand everything. But like the four to 35 people in Congress, I just want like people like love the community, care about the kids, care about things, have good values. I don't, I don't need like every person that have built a ton of wealth and values. Like, and you look at Congress, how many people are like that or just from the community? It's all people who have like, including me, like, you have to raise money. You have to, it's, it's not a, it's, it's a game that is so rigged against ordinary people who just love their community and want to serve their community. And that's a sad thing. That's, that's not how it was intended to be. Well, how did you get in there? I lost twice. You know, my story, I, I grew up, Son of Immigrants, was born in Philadelphia in our bison tenor. He grew up at the public school, graduated with like over $100,000 in debt, fascinated with Silicon Valley, went out there, while you were serving in Iraq, I ran against a powerful incumbent member of Congress, Democrat, who had voted for the war in Iraq. And I thought it was a terrible mistake. And I ran against an incumbent in my own party and he was a Holocaust survivor, someone I respect. But people said, you're going to kill your career. How can you run against this guy? And it was the first anti-Iraq war campaign in the entire country. And I got killed. It got 71, he got 71%. I got 19%. And, but I didn't, I thought I was right. I kept saying at it. You are right. You know, I kept at it. And then Obama won. And that's when I got my break, because I had worked on his very first campaign at, when he was a professor at University of Chicago, and I was a student there, I had knocked on some doors. And so I got to go work for him at the Commerce Department. And then I came back and I said, okay, let me give it one more try. And I lost again. Why did I lose twice? Because I didn't know all these rich people. I didn't have a machine, you know, I wasn't related to the Nancy Pelosi. Nancy Pelosi endorsed against me three times when I ran all three times in California. California is a machine state, you know, it's like, you got to know the ends. I never had anyone there. I moved there from Pennsylvania. I was a son of immigrants. I didn't have wealthy people, parents. I'm very proud of them. They have a middle class life. And then I ran the second time lost. And the third time I said, okay, I'll try one last time. And I won. And you know, every time I go into Congress, it's one of the reasons I think I have a little bit of guts, because I wasn't supposed to get there. There was not some destiny of, you know, Rokana is going to go become a Congress. I mean, Hindu faith, Indian American, came from a middle class background, lost twice before I won. So every day I was like, I'm going to make the most of it. I'm actually going to do something because it was a miracle that I got to Congress. And I want to change something and do something for the country. It's a good story. It's a true story. I wanted, back to the tax issue. I'm just curious. I mean, do you guys run models or anything like that where you, I mean, what if you lowered the taxes and attracted more people to Silicon Valley, maybe some of the people that left them went to Austin? I mean, have you thought about that? So that would probably bring more tax money in than actually raising the taxes. Well, that's, that's the theory that, you know, the Laffer Curve or for ever break in, I mean, I disagree with some of it. The main thing though, I'll answer your question. I think I think what attracts people to Silicon Valley, the AI revolution is all the AI talent, right? Like the AI talent is in two places in China, one third of the AI talent is there and it's in Silicon Valley. And that's what Jensen said at NVIDIA. Like, why are they there? Why aren't they in Austin or in Florida? Because all the AI researchers, the AI talent is in Silicon Valley. Now, I think it's a balance. Obviously, if you move the rates too high, everyone will leave. But the, putting aside how you do it, if you're an ordinary person, you're making money, you're paying your tax, you're paying income tax, or you're paying capital gains tax. The challenge is if you're a made a billion dollars, you're a billionaire, you may never have to pay an income tax, you're not getting income, and you may never sell your stock. You're not, you're not realizing capital gains, you may be borrowing against this money and you're not, you're living your life and you're not paying tax. So how do you, how do you get at that? Now, some people have said one proposal, which is a reasonable one is if someone borrows against their assets, tax that if they're doing their lifestyle. But I think one of the things people feel is like, if you made all this money, you should be paying the same tax as a secretary or a bus driver or someone in the military. That's what Warren Buffett said. And we can discuss how to do it. But that's the feeling of unfairness people have that they sound like they want to suck it to the rich. It's just that they want them to pay the same percentage as someone who's a teacher. What makes me think of that is when you see all these states going tax-free, Tennessee is one of them. Are you guys there? We're a tax-free state. No income tax. No income tax. No. Unearned income tax. But you have high property taxes or no? No. We have a high sales tax. Okay. Well, I don't know if it's high by your standards, but it's just under 10%. But by making, and I don't know if we're 100% unearned income tax-free yet, if it's not, it's like a stair step thing. It goes down, right? But I mean, Tennessee went tax-free. And there are more Californians living here now. I'm not joking. And I'm not, this isn't like a thing. But there are more, a lot of neighborhoods, at least here in Franklin, 60% of the people are from California in the neighborhoods. Do they like them? Do they like Californians here or no? What's that? Do the folks down here like the Californians or are they? I don't know. But there was a lot of concern around COVID time. But I think a lot of that has kind of died down now. Because it's brought a hell of a workforce and it's overpopulated around here. But it's brought in a lot of business and a lot of the infrastructure has flourished as well. So that's good to see. But what I'm saying is we've got all these people from California, New York, Michigan moving in here. And I mean, the state is growing, I believe 20% year after year since COVID. For Tennessee. But then you look at Florida. And I mean, Florida is just going, I mean, this place doesn't even compare to what's going on down there. Another tax-free state. And so I'm just curious. I mean, when you guys are thinking about raising taxes, are you looking at what the other states are and are you seeing the draw that they're getting from states with higher taxes? I grant that, that there are people who go to Florida for lower taxes or taxes. But you look at some of the things that California has done well, right? And we had five Nobel laureates out of the UC system. So that's because of a lot of funding in the UC system. We've got great higher education. We've got great community colleges. We have invested in a lot of healthcare for people in the country, in the state. And the healthcare costs are far lower for many people than in Texas. Now, we've screwed up housing. We don't build enough. Austin and Texas does that a lot more. I think when Gavin ran, he promised that we would build 3.5 million houses and we built 120,000 houses. So I'm not going to defend California on housing. We've got to have less restrictive zoning. I'm a Yimbee guy. Let's build. And I think that we need to look at places like Austin or other parts of the country that have built to be able to build more housing. But this idea that if you just need to be low tax, low government, I just philosophically disagree with that model. My view is if you have a investment in community colleges, in trade schools, in public schools, in healthcare, that is a high-functioning society where you can build wealth, where you can build wealth for every family. Like, I just want the shot in America that I had as a son of immigrants, right? I got to go to a good public school. I didn't have to worry about going to a doctor. I got to live in a safe community. I couldn't hit for anything in baseball. They always said, kind of bats, nine, watch the bun. But I got to play. I got to go to Philly's games. I had a great childhood on my street. There were kids of electricians and plumbers. And there was a kid of someone who was a big shot vice president as a company. That guy had the pool and we always go to that house in the afternoons. But the country, they didn't give me a lot, but they gave me enough. And my parents, they said, Ro, you won the lottery. You were born in America. Go work hard. Go make something of yourself. Learn about the country's history. My mom used to, one of the things I never understand is folks who say, don't learn English. My mom used to sit at the kitchen table with note cards of every big English word. And she was convinced that you had to know every word in the English language to make it in America. See, that's the spirit I want in this country. Yeah, you got to work your, you know, work with everything you have, hard work. You got to love this country. It is the greatest country in the world. You got to love the history, appreciate the sacrifice of everyone who fought from the Revolutionary War to the World War II, the fought for civil rights, understand how great the country is. But give a shot to everyone. That's the same shot I had. That's what I want. I really do. And we don't have that right now. I'm not going to disagree with you. And, you know, we're kind of winding up down the interview here, but I just want to say that, you know, now that I'm coming out of the, the, the tribalized, whatever, PSYOP that I fell into, and I think just about everybody in the country has fallen into, I mean, you know what I'm realizing, the more other people on the other side of the fence that I talk to like yourself, we all want the same fucking thing. We just have different roadmaps how to get there. And that's not a bad thing, right? Because let's say it was just like, Ro Khanna gets to run America. And no one is saying like, are you wasting the money? Is the money actually, are people going to move away? Are you actually going to help the kids you want to help? That wouldn't be good. And let's say it was just someone saying, okay, I just don't want to waste any money. Don't want to, don't want to spend anything. And I was like, yeah, but what about building those public schools and factories? That wouldn't be good. What makes this country work or has made it work is like having people on all sides challenge each other. And then we get to a common understanding and good. And what's not working in this country is we're busy launching ad hominem attacks on each other, dunking on each other without having like actual debate. It's not constructive criticism or productive criticism. It's just tribalism. And it's not going anywhere. And what I meant, you know, is you care about people and I care about people and we want the best for people, but it's just different avenues how to get there. And people, you guys especially have got to start figuring out how to work out these problems, man. I'm kind of going to need to join me. I don't think you ruled it out. I don't think you ruled it out. Not see my ass on the floor of the house. You can guarantee you that. But Barrow, I really appreciate what you're doing. I mean, I I know what it's like to go against the grain and I just, I applaud you. Good job for doing that. People that what you're doing right now with the upstate stuff, that's how you're going to get these, that's how you're going to get, get the win that you're asking, how do we get this place back? And accountability from that would be a great start. It may be only the start that we, the only start we need, you know, to get things moving in the right direction. But, but I do want to ask you, yeah, if you could recommend three people for the show, who would they be? Thomas Massey, of course, who's, who's, who's an interesting person and really smart, really and courageous. Have you had Marjorie on, Taylor Green? I haven't. I think I should have her on. Yeah. She, she missed her career for it. I mean, these are just, because we're talking about the Epstein Falls. But let me, you know, the guy at Dario Amadea, Anthropic, actually, you know, you should have, have you had Jensen on from NVIDIA? I've tried to get him. I'll talk to him. I know him well. He's in my district. I'll tell him he should come on this show because he's, you know, he's one of the great innovators of our time. And he's humble. And, and he just understands technology and where we're going in an incredible way. Man, I would love to do that. And he, it'd be a great conversation. Yeah, it would be. Man, please connect me. That would be amazing. And I got one. Yeah. Can you give me AOC? Oh, I'd love to get it. Yeah. Have you had Bernie? No. Would you do Bert? Yeah. I'll take him too. Yeah. They, they, I'll talk to both of them. Perfect. Thank you. I'll tell you who else are big progressives. And there are obviously two of them. Have you had Mamdani? I haven't. Would you talk to Mamdani? I would talk to just about anybody. So, yes, I would love that too. You know, I think to the extent you have people on both sides, I think that's, that's great. The thing I admire about you, respect about you, why I came all the way down is because you take on power. You're willing to speak truth to power. And you, you were doing that on Epstein, like I said before, I did. And you're against the grain in taking on orthodoxies. And to me, like what we don't want in this country is more of the same. It's like people are sick of the status quo. Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you. Ro, thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. That's a lot of points you got. Thank you. Cheers. 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