Music as Therapy: Red Leather's Candid Stories of Survival, Sobriety, and Emotional Healing Through Music

Music Saved Me. I'm Lynn Hoffman and welcome to the Music Saved Me podcast. Now today, today's guest is one of the most compelling artists you may have never seen and that's entirely by design. He goes by Red Leather, no last name, no face, no ego in the way, just the music, the stories and 300 million streams worth of proof that honesty is the most powerful force in songwriting. It has to be. His journey took him from singing on the streets of Hollywood Boulevard through a period of addiction, chaos and a night in downtown Los Angeles that nearly ended everything to four years of sobriety and a global audience of millions who find themselves in every word he writes. His debut album, Reno, introduced the world to his sound. His new album, Tahoe, goes even deeper into what happens after the crash when clarity arrives, but the past still follows you. This is a conversation about survival, identity, music as medicine and what it means to be saved by a song, by a friend and by showing up for yourself one day at a time. Welcome to Music Saved Me, coming up next. Don't go anywhere, Red Leather. This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Music Saved Me. Now, the name Red Leather, the anonymity, is a very artistic statement. Red, welcome to Music Saved Me, and could you... It's so great to have you here. Could you take us back to the decision to protect your identity? Was that a protective instinct or a creative one or maybe even both? You know, I think... I would say it was mostly a creative one at first. So, you know, I spent a lot of time blushing on Hollywood Boulevard in LA, and I would get a lot more attention when I wore the hat than when I didn't wear the hat. And, you know, it just kind of was like, well, maybe this is the better way to do this. And so I had been writing, you know, quite a bit of music and it kind of developed into a thing where the anonymity ended up being like the best case scenario for me, because so much of my music, and especially, you know, the first songs on Reno were so deeply personal, and I was just talking so much about, you know, my addiction and all the terrible things that came with it. It kind of acted as like a barrier between me and whoever would be listening. And so, yeah, originally it was kind of a creative decision, what was getting more attention on the streets of LA, but then it was like, man, this is a great way to be able to tell my story without being judged. It's incredible, and it doesn't come along very often in the music world, and I give you a lot of credit for sticking with it throughout everything. And busking, first of all, is not an easy job. What was that period sort of like for your life, and what were you searching for when you were down there in the streets performing for people? Totally. Well, I came to LA kind of pursuing music and hoping that there was something that I could do. You know, music has always been my dream. I've been playing guitar since I was a kid, and I was just looking for anything, really, you know, any way to get my foot in the door. And so that was kind of where I started. And to be honest, it was a pretty dark period of my life. You know, like I would say this is around like 2021, and you know, this was like the deepest, darkest part of my addiction. It was just pure chaos, followed by some bursts of creativity and drug using and the hangover and the come down. It honestly, looking back, like, you know, I guess you could say there's like, you know, the beauty and the madness, but it really was a hard time. When did you first realize that writing and recording music actually helped you survive all of that that you were going through? You said you played guitar at a young age. Where did you first get introduced to it, and how did you get through it and then survive all of that? You know, music got introduced to me, you know, through some extended family, and you know, the guitar became a thing, and I don't know, I just fell in love with it. It just took me somewhere else, and it let me like just focus for hours, and then you know, I got kind of introduced to a lot of rock music, and I just, I think I just wanted to be, I don't know, I just always imagined myself as a kid, like playing a guitar solo on a stage, you know, that was kind of like, I've always had like a very vivid imagination. I think that, you know, sometimes when addicts speak, they'll talk about like their first addiction was like imagination, you know, and I think that was very true for me. It was just like, I don't know, I was always imagining scenarios in my head, and I feel like a lot of my early days, I was just somewhere else, you know, imagining something. So, you know, that turned into songwriting, and just kind of dealing with the things that I was going through at the time, but then unfortunately kind of, you know, in those earlier days, I got introduced to drugs and alcohol, and you know, those became like a focus for just so many years. You know, like, just, I don't know if that answers your question. I don't know how deep you want me to get into the addiction stuff, but let me know. Oh, oh yeah. No, I appreciate everything that you're saying, and you're definitely answering the questions. I was just curious who some of the artists were that inspired you growing up, when they said that you used to watch. So, Radiohead was like the biggest one, you know. I had just been introduced to the band and this OK computer, and at first I didn't really understand it. It was like rock music, but it was like different and weird, and the more that it played, the more I just, I don't know, I was just like attracted to it, and Nirvana was an early band as well for me, and it was almost like, you know, especially with Radiohead, like I didn't even really understand what the lyrics were saying. You know, it wasn't even really as much of a lyrical thing, but it was just like a feeling that the music gave me. Yeah, it was just like this, I don't know, it's kind of escape, and it's kind of like, I don't know, I could kind of associate each song with like a internal feeling, and you know, I would like just, I remember just like looking in the mirror and listening to music and just swaying back and forth, and it just always really moved me. Yeah, it's very powerful, and it's amazing. You know, almost everyone can pinpoint that moment when they realized how powerful music is in all of our lives, and like you, I loved music too, but the funny thing was, just like you, I always felt kind of guilty about it growing up and being working in the music world later, that it was never about the lyrics for me when I was young, it was about the feeling that the music gave me, the melodies, the chords, the progression, all of it. Yeah, yeah, totally. And the chorus. So that says a lot, I guess. That's one thing we have in common. There you go. So I want to talk about Last Call because the story behind that song is extraordinary. I mean, you were on top of a building, you had 1% battery left on your phone. Yeah. Can you walk us through that night and what it means to you and that when your friend picked up the phone? Totally. So, you know, I'll give like a quick, you know, kind of lead up to that, but the drink in and smoke and weed, that was in era, and then eventually that turned into harder drugs and kind of experimenting with all different types of things, and I kind of landed on cocaine as my drug of choice. You know, it was just a several year thing and just, it's just a vicious cycle, right? And I would, you know, I'll tell people, I would use drugs when I was happy, I would use drugs when I was sad, and I would use drugs when I was bored. So it was any and all times, you know, it was just like, no matter what, that was the number one priority in my life. And at the time, you know, I had just gotten down to LA and things were kind of getting worse for me, not better, you know, because there was even like more access to drugs in LA for me. And the one thing was when I would start using drugs when I was sad, it was kind of a bad recipe, right? I would start drinking and using, and you know, instead of the normal effects, like I would get really sad and I would start to become suicidal. And, you know, this had happened a few times, you know, even after this one night, I still had issues, but this night in particular was really, really bad. I kind of ended up at a party. I'd left that party and I met up with my drug dealer in downtown LA, 650 South Spurring Street. And he's like, hey, you know, I'm going up to this party right now in this building, like, you know, you should just come with me. So I go up there and, you know, we did our deal and I'm kind of drinking and using. And I just look around in this apartment and I just knew nobody, you know? I just felt so utterly alone. Like in that time of my life, I just, I really had no one. It was me and my dealers and, you know, maybe a couple of people I would use with, but I don't know how to describe, like, how alone I felt, you know, in that time period of my life. And it was one of those things where I don't know, I could almost just like feel this darkness coming on when I would be in already a depressed place and then start using the drugs. It was like a reverse effect. I would go deeper and deeper and deeper. And I was in that apartment and, you know, I start looking and I'm like, man, I don't know anyone here. And I just was like, I don't know, something drew me. I just left. I went out the front door and then I found the stairs in the apartment building and go up a flight of stairs and I did a line of cocaine. I'd go up another flight of stairs, another line of cocaine and just kept going up, up, up. And then I'm at the top and then I'm on top of the building and there's the ledge and here's the roof. And I don't know, I just, I kind of felt like this was like the, this was like the moment that all of the years of drug abuse and depression and anxiety and just not making it and not making anything in my life just built up. And I was ready. I don't know. I just, I think I just had enough and I thought, I just don't want to do this anymore. And I just definitely didn't want to be addicted anymore. But I don't want to be miserable. So I'm there contemplating this jump and I look at my phone and I shit you not. It was 1% on the phone. I have 1% on this, you know, crappy iPhone, you know, and I was like, well, it's kind of like a now or never, you know, if there's any last things I want to say or do or this was, it almost felt like this was the last opportunity I had to maybe say goodbye to somebody or I don't know. And then I looked at my phone and I thought, man, who would even pick up my call right now? You know, I was at a place in my life where I really felt like I had no one. You know, I'm looking at this phone and I think of one friend and it was a great friend of mine that, you know, I make music with. And I'm like, who would even be awake, you know, because it's, I don't know, like one, two in the morning, something like that. And I call the number and my friend picks up. And it kind of just break down, you know, it was like, I didn't, I didn't really expect anyone to pick up, you know, so I kind of explained to him, you know, I'm, I'm up here. I'm, I told him where I'm at and I tell him what I'm doing. And, and he's, he says, you know, don't move, you know, he goes, don't, don't fucking move. Just stay exactly where you are. And I'm going to come get you. So he drives downtown from, you know, Hollywood and. And I'm still up there, right? You know, I'm still, I don't know, kind of frozen and kind of just in, I don't know, disbelief and figuring out what, like what I'm going to do next. And, and then, you know, 20 minutes later, he's calling me again, you know, somehow this, you know, the crappy iPhone shout out to that phone because it did not die. It did not want to die. The Apple gods were, were smiling down. I didn't want to die. I didn't want to die either, I guess. So he calls me again and he's like, I'm looking for you on the streets. Where are you? No, he'd like, there was a cop nearby. He had a cop car looking for me down there. And I said, okay, fuck it. I'm coming down. So I go down, you know, I go, I go down all the way to the front of the building and he's there. And you know, and he's, he's, he's literally in the streets, like looking for me. You know, like his car is like parked somewhere. He's just running, looking for me. And I just, I don't know. I just felt like, just tremendous emotion come over me and it was just like, Somebody cared. Yeah. You know, I was so just like grateful. But then also weirdly kind of felt guilty that I had made this person, you know, come out and I'm just replaying it all in my head right now. It's kind of gnarly. But I, you know, I remember just like hugging him and crying and, and we drove, he drove me back to where I was staying. And I just, just remember crying and letting him know, like, you know, where, where I'd, where I'd been at in my life and just how grateful I was that he had, he had come to pick me up. And yeah, you know, he dropped me off. He told me the promise to, to find help. No, I didn't do that for, for quite a while longer. But yeah, you know, that was, that was the night and just thinking about it. It sounds like it's hard for you to even talk about even today. I'm guessing that's why it's convenient to be able to put it into song. Yes. No, I mean, totally, you know, I think it's funny, like when I'm on tour right now and you know, I sing it up, I sing it every night and it's like the first song in my set. And you know, I kind of, it's funny because the music around is kind of happy, you know. But yeah, you know, I think when I'm, I think when I'm singing it, I'm, I'm giving it away, you know, I'm giving it away to other people. I'm passing the story along to whoever might need it in the crowd that night. But you know, when I'm talking to you in the interview about it, I'm like, damn, I'm really like, this is for me, you know what I mean? This is like, whoa, I'm just like reliving it. Reliving it. Yeah. So. It's, it's really, it sounds to me though that it's important for you, whether it's through song or even talking to me about it, that you care enough about what's going on with your life that you want to share to help others. Totally. Why is that so important to you? You know, I think a few, a few reasons. I think when I was still an addict, you know, I was a very selfish person. I, I, it's the kind of disease that, you know, it's like the only thing you care about is, is yourself and getting what you want and getting the high. And, you know, I was, when I finally did get sober in the beginning of 2022, I had a lot of help, you know, various, you know, communities and programs and I just dived right into it, you know, and I had so much help from strangers. And like I said, at the time, I didn't have anybody, you know, I just, a couple people that I was making music with, you know, but shit, I mean, I called them out enough, you know, like they're picking me up from hotels on Sunset Boulevard, you know, like it was just like, how much could I, you know, I couldn't, they weren't going to help me get sober. They could tell me they get sober, but they can't help me get sober. So when I ended up doing it in LA, there's such a great recovery community. I was able to, I was, I got help from so many also recovering and recovered addicts and alcoholics. Seeing that and being part of, you know, those different recovery programs just made me realize that the way forward is really to do that for someone else. And, you know, it's like most of those people that helped me get sober never even knew that I was a musician or that I'd, what I did, like, you know, they don't even know that they've, they still didn't just say my life, but like, held to propel me into this dream of music. So the first thing is just kind of, I think, paying it forward from the help that I received. And the second thing is just the fans, you know, I remember early on, I had shared my sobriety on TikTok. I was 90 days sober, which looking back is like such a fragile, vulnerable time. I don't even know how I had the courage to do that. I don't know. I was just on one. It was like some real God's timing stuff, you know, I like, but I remember like just like, I had like my little 90 day chip. I was like, Hey guys, just want to let you know I'm 90 days sober. And I just, it was just an unbelievable amount of comments. It was like all these people cheering me on and people being like, thank you for sharing. And then as it, it only got more serious, the more that I would share and the more that I would release, I finally would release my music. It was like this pouring out of not only support, but gratitude for sharing and for the music and sharing their stories. And then it got even crazier when I would start doing shows, you know, I remember my first show in LA at this place called the shed. And it was like afterwards I did like just met, you know, I was just doing like a little meet and greet. And I just remember like people coming up to me and telling me that my music had saved their life. And I was just like, Oh, you know, like that's, that's never why I made the music. And I made it to get through the, to make sense of all the awful things that, you know, I doubted myself, but it was just like this. I don't know, like a epiphany when I started hearing the people that were listening and how much it was helping them. I was just like, man, this is, this is not, this is not just about me anymore. And it's just been this beautiful thing that, that it's kind of developed into a community. Yeah, it's quite remarkable what you've been able to do and turn around. And by the way, I believe it's you're approaching your five year mark now. So I, I, I'm, you know, I'm a little closer to four than five. I just hit four years on January 6th of this year. Well, congratulations. That's a huge milestone. And, you know, I'm sure you're learning a lot about this more than you ever thought you would know. But all good things and momentum moving forward with what you're doing. It's obvious that you're doing the right thing because it's, it's getting you through. But it's also, you're taking all these other people through with you. And interestingly enough, you were talking about how initially you were all about yourself and how amazing is it when you turn it all around and you give of yourself to everyone what comes back to you. It's like, it's there. No, absolutely. Absolutely. I think I started to just feel like, you know, the most fulfilled just with that, you know, like I said, like I'm on stage and I'm singing. I'm just, like I said, I've just given it away, you know, I'm just like, how can I, whoever needs this, this is for them, you know. We'll be right back with more of the Music Saved Me podcast. Welcome back to the Music Saved Me podcast. What has sobriety changed in terms of what you're able to write and what you're able to feel sort of when you are performing it? So the first thing is I never would even be able to perform it if I wasn't sober, you know. So it's like, it gave me life, you know, and I think you can't have music without life. So that's the first thing. But you know, to kind of give you like some more detail in there, the Reno album, which was my first album, I wrote it pretty much completely inactive addiction, you know, and just to give you a little, some behind the scenes. So basically, that first album I was writing, I would be in LA and just like, just deep, dark into my own world. And like I said, it would be like my producers would, it would kind of hit like a bottom or a rock bottom. You know, it would just be these bad moments. And I remember one time I was in a Boulevard, or a motel on Sunset Boulevard. And again, my producers like had to come pick me up and, you know, take me back to like, it was just, it was just all bad. But then it would be like a week later, we would go to an Airbnb in Joshua Tree. We wrote most of that album in Joshua Tree, a little bit up in Lake Tahoe and Big Bear. But we would just get an Airbnb and then I would have like this week of being, you know, quote unquote clean, you know. I wasn't using any hard drugs. Then I would, it was almost like I was going through this terrible cycle of addiction, but then there would be these small pockets of like a week or two weeks where I would write. And I would sit down and I would tell my story and get it all out. And then it would be like, get back to LA boom right back in the cycle. Yeah, that was how my first album kind of came to be. But the second one now, Tahoe was written pretty much completely in sobriety. So it was a different writing process. You know, I wasn't, I wasn't even drinking beers or smoking weed or anything. And I think I was a little nervous at first because drugs and alcohol were such a big part of my life. It was like a safety net almost. Yeah, totally, totally. So it was like, of course, that's what I'm going to be writing with and about and all that. But I think I kind of distinctly remember a couple moments when I was in these little writing camps when I really, I realized I wrote something I loved and I wasn't high and I wasn't drunk. And I was like, oh man, like I can, I can actually do this. And, you know, it was actually me. It wasn't anything else. So the second album, I think it's a lot, it's a little bit more clearheaded. It's a little bit more mature and it's a little bit more introspective. But yeah, you know, I'm grateful for all of it. Red, let me ask you what it was like for both Reno, once you put that out, what was it like watching that song and that project connect with millions of people that you had no idea, they had no idea who you were even, but they connected with it so much. And then the next part of that is the same for Tahoe now, where you're in a different place in your life. What was that like just touching all of those people in two completely different ways? And being anonymous throughout all of it. Totally. Well, you know, I remember it first just being so overwhelming. Like I remember, you know, even before that, you know, before the album was out, I was just putting music up on TikTok and, you know, the song started to come out. And I remember how overwhelming it was just to be like, you know, with social media, like so many people can like comment on what you're doing. And like, that's not like what happens in real life, you know. In real life, you just do things and you interact with people like one at a time, you know. Or even like, even out of a concert of 100 people, like maybe a couple of people shout something, but it's not like hundreds or thousands of people. It was like, I was putting my music out and there's like thousands of comments and like, there would be crazy, there was like mostly positive, but then there was a lot of negative stuff. It would be like people telling me like, I hope you relapse and die, like crazy stuff. Like, you know, yeah, like social media is, it's a place where I think people feel empowered to be very negative. I would just, yeah, I remember like being very overwhelmed by the love and the hate and being like, fuck, like, I don't know how to deal with this. I think I kind of, instead of, you know, thankfully instead of drugs and alcohol, I kind of just, you know, dove into the music and that's kind of, I think, what ended up being my escape from all that. But I think the Reno album came out and it was kind of like my first offering to the world and I felt, the Tahoe album was much different. I feel like the Tahoe album came out to, when I was more mature and I feel like when the fans, it was just more complete. You know, the Reno album itself, the writing was chaotic, the release was more chaotic, it was more, you know, just throwing stuff at the wall. And this time for Tahoe, it was like, I was able to have a lot more of a plan and I was able to have a lot more peace in my life to release it. But honestly, the being anonymous part is one of the best parts. You know, I think it's allowed me to be so honest in my music. I don't feel like any fear to get judged by telling these personal stories. And yeah, it kind of separates the artist from the art a little bit too, you know, where it's like, there is a character of red leather, but it's not a face, it's not really a person. I feel like people can just also just focus on the art. Yeah, I was going to say, even the negative comments, it's sort of like, you can sort of let it fly because they don't even know who they're commenting to. Yeah, honestly, that definitely made it easier. Yeah, they couldn't like say something even more mean. Yeah, like they're exactly, exactly. Let's talk about losing my religion. By the way, congratulations with all of that. I mean, and you're still here and thriving after all of that. And it's just amazing. And thank you for sharing all of that. What's the story behind losing my religion? I would say losing my religion is probably my favorite song on the Tahoe album. It's kind of a continuation of the song of Burn in Hell from the Reno album, which is also a very spiritual song. And I think losing my religion really represents that moment of just like, when you're snapping, you know, like, it's like, I struggled with faith a lot, all the mental battles of, I did in addiction, after addiction, all of that. And I think losing my religion is all about like, the first, it's kind of a two-part song. The first part song is kind of like talking about, you know, I was born as someone who was shown, you know, faith and Christianity and say, you know, like, believe in something and there's a God and all this stuff and then you start living your life and you're like, well, why is this happening over there and why are these bad things happening to me and how can I, you know, I'm like, when I go to church or I try to repent for my sins, like, nothing's happening, you know, and feeling like, in that, I had a lyric, I said, if there's a God, then I'll be damned, you know, it's like, You weren't seeing it. No. Or feeling it. No. And yet at the same time, I think it started to re-enter my life towards, especially towards the end of my addiction, I started praying and writing a lot and asking God to help me. I just was so desperate and I think I got to a place where I was desperate enough to reach out to faith again. Then I had a couple, you know, very spiritual experiences that made me believe in a power greater than myself, you know. I could tell you about some of those experiences if you like. Sure. Whatever you would like to share, I mean, anything that, the way I look at it is, we're here doing service for others. Okay, sure. And I'm so grateful that you're willing to do that. So whatever you want to share is a beautiful thing. Okay, awesome. That song is kind of synonymous with the song Divine Intervention, right? So losing my religion is losing your mind, you know, it's like, there is no God, fuck this, fuck everything, I'm done, you know, like, there's nothing, nothing matters, you know, like Divine Intervention tells the story of one of those spiritual experiences I had and it happened when I was in Las Vegas. So I had one final relapse before I got sober and that was in January of 2022. I had, in December of 2021, I had had a heart attack and got taken away by the ambulance and it was freaking awful. And I said, I'm never going to use drugs again. I was like, I'm done, I'm done, I'm done. Of course, that's not how addiction works, you know, and so I wasn't done, even though I was having health problems and all this stuff. I had one final relapse. I go to Las Vegas and that was the thing that I would do a lot, you know, it would be like from LA to Vegas and get a cheap hotel. I would tell a room and do have a little drug hustle so I could pay for my trip and I was there and it was the last time and I met a stranger on the casino floor and we started hanging out and talking and, you know, we were back up in my room and I was drinking and using and he, I was like, hey, I make music, you know, he's like, well, play me some of your music. So I play him, I play him one of my songs and he goes play that again and I played it again. He says play it again and I probably played a song 10 or 15 times for him. And it was just like he was just listening and listening and listening and listening. And then after the last time I played it, he just looks up at me and he looks straight into my soul and he says, you don't have to live like this anymore. And I remember breaking down and and hugging him and that's all I remember from that night. It just, and the next thing I know the next day I Iod and that was the last time I ever I ever used drugs and alcohol. That was that was truly a miracle moment. I truly believe that that that that that man was an angel, you know, I just absolutely are you kidding me. Are you kidding me? But just the fact that you were able to recognize and have an epiphany, I always think that life is, you know, 90% how you deal with the 10% of the things that happen to you because like shit happens to you. And it's just how you deal with it truly. And for you to recognize what happened, I mean, that's the first opportunity to go in a different direction. I mean, totally. I mean, I, you know, yeah, you know, I think in a way it was God's way of saying, All right, no more. You know, I feel like I feel like I was forced to stop. You know, actually, you know, I like I think the 90 the 90% was what I had to do after that day, you know, which was has been years of work and recovery. But but the actual stop felt like that divine intervention, the angel coming and then boom. Yeah, you hit that brick wall hard and it just and it's a friend of mine always used to say this sometimes when you're going through life and shit's happening. And then like a piano falls on your head and you're supposed to recognize when the piano falls on your head that like that's a sign you need to take stock in your life and figure out a different direction because this one is a sign. The direction because this one isn't going in the right direction. Thousand percent. Yeah. I remember the next day. You know, the OD happens is fucking miserable. And the next day I'm so scared. I'm just unbelievably just terrified. And but I just in but there was like this one part of me that was just like this relief of like it's over. You know, I was just like, if I use drugs and alcohol again, I'm probably gonna die, you know, it was just like it was just like these two back-to-back medical incidents and I was just like scared but also like relieved because I'd also Met some people, you know in LA because I've been trying to get sober for a while. I mean But I knew I know who to I knew who to call and so I I just put I started putting the time in and and um Yeah, it was just like an entire entire year of just basically focusing on on on recovery and and then also At that same time is when I started like just posting on tiktok. That was like my outlet to not think about You know drugs and alcohol. I would just okay I'm just gonna make another cover and just sing to the camera and just put it I was uploading like five videos a day Wow, well, I mean that explains the three million followers the one and a half million tiktok Sold out shows in the united states europe Your fans found you almost entirely through word of mouth. This doesn't happen in real life What do you think that that your fans are hearing in the music that makes them? Need to not only listen to it, but also share it your stuff is just shared I mean, it's incredible music. Yeah, you're you're an incredible performer musician everything Um and plus you leave it all out there Um What is it? What do you think it is? Maybe just hearing about somebody, you know Just being honest about the dark parts of life. It's it's and and and and having a willingness to fight it. It's just Every every every piece of music has a different purpose, you know And some of it's to make you dance and some of it's to make you happy, but I think When I started writing These songs it was sins is a great example, right? I remember being like I can't even I can't even show this song to my mom, you know, I can't even show I can't show this song to anyone I know I was just so not embarrassed by it, but just like I couldn't believe that I had been so freaking honest about this Just ugly thing, you know, it's an ugly part of life. It's not something that it's not dinner table talk It's not it's not easy listening, you know and and I think that Because it was so Um raw I think that that's I I think that that's what the fans are getting out of it. At least that's what they tell me I need them. Um, it's authentic and raw. That's for sure. I think it's just not leaving anything on the table Like, you know, I was like, I think another thing that um going through all of that really gave me is just is just a fearlessness Mm-hmm, you know where it's like I just don't feel like Nothing worse can than can happen than what I already did to myself, you know and to be excuse my friends But I don't give a fuck of any more about people's opinions about you know anything. That's not what's important So I love your motto Yeah, no, it's like what I do take seriously is my second chance, you know and I do and what's important and and that's to me it's it's life and um, You know the people that I love and and the art that I love to to create but you know, I'm I'm I you know, I'm I'm happy that that that that that people are connecting with it. Um, I think what's cool Actually, that wasn't the intention, you know, I'm not I'm not writing a song about um being addicted to drugs and almost committing suicide to to To have someone say to relate, you know, and I mean like I'm not like oh, I wasn't writing this song like I just wrote it, you know what I mean? It was like this is how I'm this is how I made sense of this this terrible thing that happened in my life and um, I didn't I was I didn't know I had no idea that like This was gonna be the reaction, but I'm I'm very grateful for it Yeah, it's it's amazing when you do stuff and funny enough you were talking earlier about doing things just for yourself but that's really what was the impetus to connect with so many people because I guess it goes back to the old adage, you know, when you start talking to people You start learning that you're not the only one that feels a certain way And you had to figure that out through through music, which is amazing When when someone comes up to you after a show and says this song of yours Saved my life and and they didn't even know your real name or who you are or what you look like nothing Just this song that you wrote. What does that exchange feel like to you and and how do you deal with it? Those exchanges feel Incredibly powerful and authentic Uh, you know, I I think uh, sometimes it's the handshake. Sometimes it's a hug, you know, uh What it definitely is is is two people seeing each other, you know, I'm um For the most part, I'm not fazed by it because I've been through that whatever they're talking about I've been through something, you know, some some kind of similar, you know So whatever that thing is that they were going through it's like I get it, you know, and so it's it's um, it feels it feels good It's amazing to me too that again Although this uh, this is an audible podcast right now. So no one can see us But if I could describe To those who don't know who red leather is I can't see his face at all. He he covers it with a with a really cool red hat With tassel. So this is I'd have to say been the most interesting interview that I've ever done Oh, wow But but but in a way But it's it's such an amazing thing because you don't need to see someone to connect with someone with their life Their story and the things that they've gone through Um, which is really important and it also you lose all of that other stuff that goes along Like we talked about with social media and people with opinions and comments You can just be free to do your craft and I think to be a lot more helpful not just to yourself But to those listening Um and speaking of that the music saved me question That I like to try to end all the shows with is what is the moment or the song or the artist? Where you truly felt that music rescued you I think for me the moment was Was really the my my first hundred days of sobriety where You know my life did Sorry, I'm sorry. This is a long answer to a question But in the first 100 days of my sobriety my life did such An incredible 180 it's it's it's hard to even explain. I mean I was going from a drug addict about to die to having Like a hundred thousand people follow me and listen to my music within a span of like a couple months and I feel like music gave me a purpose for myself and to help others at a time when I just needed it the most And it continues to give me that purpose so You know I'm I'm gonna keep making the art for myself and I'm gonna keep performing it for others That was a lovely answer and it wasn't long and um go out and get tahoe Check out Reno. These are two incredible albums by an incredible Your country rock artist you meld both so beautifully and you have a beautiful voice. Thank you And um, I wish you so much success red leather In your future and I hope that you come back and check in with us again in a little while because I suspect You're gonna be on to even bigger and better things and and hold strong You're doing everything right and I'm so happy to get this moment to talk to you in your life and in your career And thank you for sharing everything with all of us You're welcome and thank Lynn. Thank you so much for having me. It was great speaking with you and uh, I'd love to I'd love to chat again sometime I'm buzz knight and thanks for listening to Lynn Hoffman and the music save me podcast produced by buzz knight media productions Please check out our other shows taken a walk Nashville hosted by sarah harrelson Comedy save me hosted by Lynn Hoffman and taken a walk hosted by yours truly All shows are available on apple podcasts spotify and are part of the i heart podcast network