Take The First Step Toward Financial Freedom Today

The Ramsey Show. 5-2-2-5. Let's go to Charlotte, North Carolina and talk to Alyssa. What's up, Alyssa? Hi, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. I appreciate what you guys do so much. Of course. Thanks for calling in. What's up? Okay. So the simple question is we are wondering, my husband and I are wondering if there is any way and how you might suggest the best way is to get out car lease early. We have no consumer debt other than this car lease, which we refer to as our stupid tax. But we are expecting a baby and just found out from early on and just reevaluating our budget and have known for a while that this car lease wasn't the best decision, but are now at the point of trying to look into possibly getting out of it and just have no idea where to start. Okay. How much is the lease? What do you pay every month? we pay $4.99 a month and we have about 22 months left on the payment schedule and the buyout amount is about $29,000. Okay and do you have any money saved anywhere? We do so we do we have about 15,000 liquid but two things with that you know one we are expecting I am a high-risk pregnancy And so I have type 1 diabetes, so there's just some interesting things with pregnancy there. And then, two, you know, we do have – of that $15,000, we have thought, well, if we are able to get out a lease, we'll need at least a portion of that to purchase a car. So those are kind of our only two thoughts there. Oh, so if you – the only cash you have, is that basically your emergency fund right now? That is, yeah. Okay, so if you got out of this lease, you'd have to take a chunk of that to buy a car for you and this new baby, right? Yeah, correct. Well, let me put you on pause for a second because the truth is I wouldn't do anything today with this. You are in stork mode. I would not jump into that savings. You need it there. That's cushioned. That's for your peace of mind. And you've been paying this $4.99 payment. I'd pay it a little bit longer until the baby comes. When does the baby get here? Uh, nine months. So we're, we're brand new. What's your husband earn? He is in sales. Um, he earns about a safely 80. Um, but you know, this past year was actually closer to a hundred. So, um, but safely, you know, 80,000 and you're high risk. Are you able to work through the pregnancy or any portion of it? I'm working. Yeah. I'm work. I work from home. I work remote and I'm able to do that throughout the pregnancy. Um, our plan, our hope is for me to go part-time if the only thing that is preventing us from me going part-time is this stupid lease. And what do you make when you work full-time? I make about 70. Okay. So we're just stacking cash right now. I mean, that's our plan. Yeah. What other debts do you have? Nothing. Oh, that's the only debt. Sorry, besides a mortgage, besides a mortgage. Okay. So is it possible that on $150,000, you can cut back a couple of areas so that paying this lease feels a little more tenable. And in the meantime, you continue stacking cash, whatever extra margin that you have. Because I don't like the idea of you going down to no emergency fund and then feeling the pressure of having to stack that up very quickly. Do you see what I'm saying? Because you are going to have to get a new car if you do that. Right, right. And that's the part I don't like. One thought, which I have a feeling you're going to say no, we do have, both of us do have Roth IRAs. No, no, no. It's not desperate. It's not desperate times, right? You're annoyed. Okay, yeah. I didn't know if mine, I mean, mine we just have 7,000 in, so it's not a huge amount. So I didn't know if you'd say, eh, that might be good to just liquidate that. No, because it's locked in. It's locked in, and by the time you take it out, not only are you going to have to pay taxes and penalties on it, but, yeah, if you just up and pull that money out and take it out like a contribution, you're going to pay a 10% penalty. So I would not touch that money. Oh, on a Roth IRA, you pay a 10% penalty? Well, are you talking about just pulling out the money that you've invested, not the growth? Yeah, I'm talking about the contribution, just $7,000 that we've put into it. I still would not do that. Yeah, I understand what you're saying. You could pull that money out and not have anything attached to it, But I wouldn't do that for the simple principle of you're in a situation or a season of life where you're changing your behavior with money. And what that means is I'm going to start doing the smartest things as I possibly can with my money. Sure. Right. You know what I'm saying? Yes. So once you know the information, just abide by it. So last question, is there a world in which you would suggest getting like a smaller loan, like refinancing the lease or going to like a credit union or something like that to get. I'm thinking of, I was thinking about that, but here's what I, here's where you're at. You would still be out your emergency fund, right? Because you'd have the 15,000 and then we'd have to come up with another, oh, 9,000 to fill the gap. Right. That's where we were thinking about the Roth, but you're saying no. No. And that, yeah, it doesn't solve your problem. My, for me, your biggest problem is you need cash when the baby comes and you need as much cash as you can because to your point it's not just the baby anymore you're at a high risk status too so i'd want if i were in your shoes i'd want my deductible uh i want every penny you know i'd want the family deductible put aside i'd want money set aside so if we need meals and extra help you know all of those things because you just never don't get me wrong i wish you nothing but the best but you just never know how these situations go or suddenly two months in you can't work you're you gotta go on bed rest because your diabetes gets up. So, yeah, I think, Jade, I think this is the first time in years of doing this show I've ever told somebody, stay in the lease. Well, at this point, listen, if you called me today and there was no baby, I would consider saying, hey, go down to the credit union, get a $15,000 loan so that you have the money, you can buy this thing out. Yeah, I would do that in a heartbeat. But even, I'll be honest, even with your numbers, it's close. And the reason I say it's close because I'm like, okay, you'd have to take out a $15,000 loan. Then you'd have to turn around and take, I don't know, $5,000 or $8,000 more just to get a vehicle. And you'd end up at the same – you'd end up pretty, pretty close to where you are now. So that's the only reason I don't even know that I would mess with it. I think that I would just start sacking up the cash to buy it out. Yeah, and we have stripped out our budget to bare minimum. I mean, you know, once we hit that store, we were like, okay, everything goes, YouTube TV, you know. our car wash subscription like everything else but it's just a lingering amount that we're just hoping to get rid of but that might just be our stupid tax honestly it is because when you really run out the math on both sides it's not really worth it to go and get that loan from the credit union and then have to add more cash to it it's just at that point I'd say hey just pay the thing off because here's the thing in the time in this next nine months, you're going to stack up a bunch of money. And as soon as this baby is born and everybody comes home healthy, you're going to completely buy this lease out. If you want to, you might, by then you might think, well, we'll, we'll just run it out. And then from there on, we'll just buy a car and cash. We're going to turn it in and buy a car. Yeah, that's exactly our plan. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, it's a good question. And I love that you're thinking about it. I would just take a chill pill, push pause for now and get it rolling in nine months. and never lease a car again. I know that's, you already know that. It's the most expensive way to operate a vehicle. Exactly. Period. Yeah. Listen, identity theft doesn't just happen just because you're careless. You can do everything right and still become a victim. Whether your information is skimmed online, stolen through a scam, or exposed in a data breach, which happens every day, then it becomes your problem, your time, your money, your paperwork galore. That's why I've told people for years to have identity theft protection, and the only plan I've ever recommended is from Zander Insurance. Zander monitors for signs of fraud, even home title fraud, and they send alerts when something looks off. Most important, if something happens, you're not stuck spending hours on hold filing forms and arguing with companies trying to fix it. 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So for myself and for everyone at home, could you guys just go over some of the reasons why we combine finances with our spouse, some of those benefits that come with being united? And then for myself, how do I engage her on this topic without sounding preachy and in a way that kind of excites her? Like, how do we set these shared goals and run after them together? We want to save for a house. We want to have kids. Maybe set her up to stay at home, too. Very cool. The first thing I would tell you is there's some what I call nerd work. There's some research data that some researchers went down the rabbit hole and trying to see was there a causal or a correlative link between couples who shared their accounts and couples who didn't. and not to our surprise but to surprise out in the world there was couples who shared a single account were forced to make planning decisions together and because there was the artificial like uh environment that was the research study there wasn't a way out of it so they'd agree to do this and so that forced them to sit down at a table and figure out what do we value organic foods or non-organic foods, this kind of car, that kind of car, the temperature at 78 or the temperature at 72, which is going to cost us an extra this much money every month. They were forced to have those kind of conversations that so many couples just blow by and their relationship quality was higher. And so I think the in and of itself sharing the account, that isn't the magic sauce. What's the magic sauce is it forces you to have big, real, authentic, deep conversations about how you are going to do life together. And that leads to your next question. The fact that you already have this level of self-awareness is pretty impressive. Most people call us seven to ten years into their marriage, and they're like, we hate each other because he always tries to hit me over the head with his spreadsheets. or she wants to look at spreadsheets and I just want to go buy Pokemon cards or whatever. And so the fact that you already know, like, oh, I can be a lot with my spreadsheets, and she likes to have really nice things all the time. The fact that you already know that now, that's a good thing. Dave has taught this for years, and he passes this wisdom along, and I'll pass it along to you. He says when you're combining it for the first time and one of you is like a dyed-in-the-wool nerd and one of you is a free spirit, the nerd makes the first pass of the budget. And then to quote Dave, they pass it across the table, and then they shut their mouth. And they let their spouse look at it. and a there's going to be what i would call principled things like hey you have 19 a week for us to eat on actually i've been to a grocery store food costs 300 a week so we have to adjust that and so there's the practical changes right you have nine dollars a month for water bill i like to shower more than 32 seconds and you're like we're we're nerd family we can get done with showers quick right and so then there's a practical and then there's the hey what if we enjoyed our life too? What if we lived? What if we smiled sometimes? And as a nerd, you're like, no smiling, just savings, right? And so it, but it's, it's you saying, Hey, I made a first pass at this, but your voice at this table really matters. And both of you have to practice letting each other speak up. Does that make sense? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I, uh, I kind of figured maybe that would be a good way to do it, but I didn't want to come off as like, here's my idea and what I think we should do and do you agree? The conversation before that is you going first with, I'm a nerd. Would it be cool if I made a first pass at a budget and I'm going to hand it to you because I know I'm going to miss some stuff like joy and fun and laughter and meals and I want you to be fully at this thing. If she says, yeah, that'd be awesome, then that's fantastic. If you think she's going to look at it and she's already nervous to challenge you and she's going to hand it back and say, it looks fine. Dave would say, I'll say, she has to change at least one or two line items. Like get in the practice of I'm going to change something. And you get in the practice of smiling and saying, ah, I'm glad you're here. Right? Not, well, I did the research and I, you know, that kind of thing, right? Absolutely. Definitely. What do you think, Jay? What am I missing here? I mean, I think you're right. I mean, yeah, a lot of the data does show that the couples that combine their money, they just have a higher relational satisfaction. And I mean, I can tell you anecdotally, I really think it's because it's like that scripture where your treasure is, your heart is there also. And I think that when you combine money and you see people's spending habits and you see the things that they value and you see their little quirks, it causes you to get to know them better. Right. And you go, oh, okay, it's so weird that she only, like, to your points, oh, so weird she only buys, you know, the national brand. She never buys, you know, the knockoff brand. And then you can ask questions about that. Like, you just get to know each other better. You figure out this is what they value. This is what they don't value. This is what, you know, is a trigger for them. This is not what, you know, this doesn't trigger them. I just think that that's such a cool thing to have from the very beginning. And it costs you nothing. Just put your name on the account and then just let it fly. Harley, have you all ever lived together? No. Okay. So it's going to astonish you that what you used to accomplish with one bottle of multipurpose soap, she has 19 different bottles that do different things. And don't question it. And you have one half-used tube of lotion that you got from a hotel once. She's got 117 different lotion. But it's all these – you don't even know, right? And she's going to probably want you to wash socks and underwear like after every time you wear them, right? And not once a month like you're used to. And grouped with the right colors, please. Exactly. So all this stuff is like part of those – it's the conversations beneath the conversations that almost always go undiscussed. And it leads to her going, ugh. And you're going, jeez. And then you look up and two years of good grief and one of y'all putting the thermostat up and the other one putting it down without telling the other person. It builds this. It tills the soil for resentment. And having this just having something as simple as joining accounts, man, it changes your life. I'll also say this. You want to be a real gangster? Ask her if she wants to go ahead and keep her bank. Interesting. And why is that? Why not? why not I mean if you have a case for my bank is superior to your bank and so be it but I'm just trying to think of ways that you could be extra hospitable in a situation where she already knows you're kind of the money guy and that's kind of your identity and you're kind of the spreadsheet bro a way to come in and already say dude my whole life is going to be in service to you is hey I'm going to pull all my money out of my bank and I'm going to reroute my direct deposit to your bank. Is that cool? Yeah, that's great. That's really insightful. It's just a little bitty stuff. Yeah, I appreciate you guys taking my call. Yeah, you bet, man. And when do y'all get married? May 23rd. May 23rd. That's exciting. Y'all spending a bunch of money on it? Is it going to be awesome? It's going to be fun. It's going to be nice. We both have good jobs, so we're able to cash flow it. I probably would have said a lower budget, but she was like, well, hey, we want to have something nice, and we can. I said, you know what? You're right. We can. Why wouldn't we do that? Dude, you're already you're already you're so far ahead of me, brother. That's exciting. Good for you. But she's also I say she's a free spirit. She is very responsible. She has good habits. It's not blowing things out of proportion. So I think there'll be a lot of middle ground for us to be able to meet on and feel like we're both doing the right thing. I think you guys are going to be just fine. I think you're a good guy. I think she's a great lady. And this is going to be good. But, John, I'll tell you, to me, one of the best things about combining finances is you align on shared goals and you get to build the trust of saying, I do what I say I'm going to do. And my spouse does what he says he's going to do. And that is like relational equity that is so, so powerful on down the line. And it's not just with money. It shows up when you face other hard times. You know, you can depend on each other and you know you can trust each other. And that is just one of the many non-financial benefits of combining your finances. hey guys healthcare is one of the biggest stress points in your budget it's confusing and most of the time it feels completely out of your control but there is a better way to handle it. Christian Healthcare Ministries isn't health insurance. It's a health cost-sharing ministry where Christians share each other's medical bills. And it's not a new idea. CHM has been around since 1981. 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That's chministries.org slash budget and use promo code RAMSEY. buying or selling your home is a big deal and with all the clickbait nonsense headlines and conflicting data out there it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand last month the average 15-year fixed rate mortgage ticked up a bit to 5.56, but it's still below 6%. If you're financially ready, a small rate increase should not hold you back, especially since waiting could mean facing higher prices as the busy home buying season ramps up. Median home prices went up to 415 grand last month, which is typical for the spring market. And with more homes available and more buyers entering the market, it's a great time to buy or sell. To learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to RamseySolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or on the YouTubes. Let's go out to Chicago, Illinois and talk to Chelsea. What's up, Chelsea? Hi. How are we doing? Doing good. How are you today? We're doing great. What's going on? So I've been working through the baby steps. I'm on baby step number two, and I'm really proud of the progress I've made. I actually keep the quote, live like no one else now, so you can live like no one else later in a couple of places, just so that I stay focused on my long-term goals. Awesome. But lately, I've been struggling with feeling like whether it's worth it. I'm a single 30-year-old with no kids, and it's just starting to feel like I'm constantly missing out. I'm saying no to friends, family vacations, and I'm not putting myself in spaces right where I can meet people because I'm not going out. And it's just getting really lonely. How much do you have left? I still have about $60,000 in student loans, and then I'm working on my car payment now, which is sitting at about $10,000, so about $70,000 altogether. How much have you paid off so far? I was at $120,000 when I started. Wow, way to go. You're halfway home. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, how much time? Like, what's the timeline on this $70,000? I probably should sit down and, like, remap that out. Yes. Because I haven't done that for a while now, but I am on year two of, like, working this program. Okay. So I love this question, and hopefully I can say something that will encourage you. So my husband and I, our timeline was seven and a half years of paying off debt. Now, granted, we were married, and so I had somebody to kind of look over to when I wanted to fall out. Yeah, somebody to lament with. And yours is a little bit different, but you can find that person. I think that person's out there. But a couple of things that I just want to throw out there to you. Number one, you've got to know a timeline. I think for you, even if it's shifting and it's not the same as it was, I think every once in a while looking up and recalculating it and recalibrating it, that just does so much for you. Anytime you can recalculate numbers and it looks a little bit better, that's going to give you a little bit of a boost. Even if it's just a little bit, oh, it's three weeks closer than it was. I think that you need to sit down and do that tonight. And anything that you can do to slightly rev up that timeline, so you calculate it out and you're like, oh, man. And then you say, well, what would happen if I, you know, added a little side hustle on Saturday? And then suddenly you see the timeline go down a little bit. So I think you could really use the motivation that that brings. So that's thing one. And I do think that you also, in that, you need to carve out a couple of milestones that you can build some rewards around. because when you're in this thing, the average person, John, when they walk the baby steps, they're out of it in 24 months out of baby step two. That's kind of like on average. It's like a one and a half to two year sprint. When you're one of these people like Chelsea or like me or John, I don't know how long was yours. Well, I was an idiot, so it was a long time. But my point is when it's longer than that one and a half to two year sprint, when you're getting into four, five, seven years. It's a beating. It's a beating. And honestly, it's not good for your mental health to say, I don't do anything. I don't go inside of a restaurant. I don't do this. So if you're a person who's beyond that timeline, you need to be thinking. Like for Sam and I, it was like, okay, after a certain point, we were sleeping on an air mattress for so long. We're like, hey, we're four years in. We're buying a mattress and we're buying a bed for crying out loud, right? And then there was a – I think at the six-year point, we needed a new vehicle. and so we stopped paying off debt and we bought another vehicle. It was cash flowed and it wasn't overly priced, but when you're in a longer stint, you do have to be very intentional about planning. Okay, I got to do something to keep myself going. At some points, maybe it's a pizza. At some points, maybe it's like, I'm just going to drive to the beach and have a good time and I'm not going to stay more than one night in a hotel, but I'm also not going to take a flight at your fourth year. Right. So I want you to hear me on that, because at that point, yeah, you're not going to John, you don't disappear from society for five years. Right. And Chelsea, you called something out that's it's I think is really important. And I'm challenging you, but I want to I'm challenging you like on your team. Does that make sense? What does saying no to everybody and everything? Tell me more about that. so okay most recently i'll say i feel like i'm kind of like failing in my friendships where they'll be like oh i just need like a girl's night like today was just so hard like can you know i get all my friends together and they want to go out no invite them to the crib and i'm like no i can't you guys it's not in my budget and so i feel like i'm failing in my friendship okay so i this was like a big eye-opener for me when i'm in i'm in the same spot you are now granted like Like, Jade, I was married, and so I had someone to be sad with. But I had some buddies who were, when I say light years ahead of me financially, I mean comically light years ahead of me. I was there. Like, it was brutal. But we just started, like, Monday or Tuesday nights. Everyone would just clean out their fridge. And so I had some of the wealthiest people I knew at the time bringing over half-eaten casseroles, a bottle of wine with, like, half of a glass left in it. and those ended up being magic Tuesday nights or Monday nights and everyone would just show up at the house and bring what they had and there was times I went out and we all hung out and I drank water I drank Diet Coke or I had enough in my budget for one drink and that was it and and so it was like I I it was part of it was like from my meal budget right but it was not an excuse to go crazy was not excuse to whatever but it also was an excuse to withdraw from society because being lonely is gonna is gonna kill you too yeah this is a this is creative like this is just you creatively solving that problem because i'll tell you this i think the best hangs are at the house yes yes you know to your point it's a potluck everybody brings a little something because then you're just there to chop it up about whatever happened right your girlfriend could talk about her breakup you could talk about what happened at work and you're just you just want to be together. It's not about, you know, the egg rolls at Chili's. You'll find now, again, like the folks I meet now who you might think are famous or have a big Instagram for it, almost all those gatherings are hanging out at people's houses. People wearing shorts and t-shirts and having a great, great time. And once you get the hang of the creative, spend time with your friends time, man, you look at restaurants differently. And you look at going out all night until 3 a.m. You just look at all that differently. And you actually get rejuvenated from hanging out with your friends. And in your situation, tell people to bring over other friends that you all haven't met yet. And that can be super weird and awkward and like, oh, that guy is just eyeball. It can. But also the research tells me that at work and a friend of a friend is a great way to meet people in the new world now where dating has been so outsourced to apps. I'm terrified of apps. Good, good. You should be. Get off of them. They're nonsense. But all to say is I don't want you to think you have to pick a life or a free-for-all. You can absolutely be buzzing through your debt, and if you have a group of friends who are ride or die with you, they're going to support you. And also you can show up and just say, no, I'm drinking that Coke tonight. It's all good. And let me also say this. I will tell you after seven and a half years of sacrifice being on the other side of that and the debt being gone and me being at different phases in my life. I never looked back, John, and was like, man, there was a pair of jeans I wanted back in 2013 and I never got them. Or there was a movie that I wanted to see in the theater and I never saw it. Like, you don't think about it. Like, once the time has passed, it's passed. But when you're 40 and you got your person and you don't owe anybody any money. Come on. You can pay for floor seats. That's right. The concerts are more awesome. 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That's ChurchillMortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement, NMLS ID 1591, NMLSconsumerExcess.org, equal housing lender. Let's roll out to Pensacola, Florida and talk to Monica. Hey, Monica, what's going on? Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Of course, thanks for calling. What's going on? um i'm 47 my husband is 49 we have two teenage daughters um we make a very comfortable income but seven years ago i was diagnosed with parkinson's disease oh man i'm sorry thank you how's it play out now i'm well i just recently stopped working okay um yeah it's It's starting to get a little harder. Yeah. But we're technically in baby step two, cleaning up some financial messes. And my question is, so after baby step three, should we prioritize funding retirement, paying off the house or like experiences with our daughters while I'm still well enough to travel and things like that? Yeah, all of the above. Yeah. All of the above. you know tell me tell me more about the baby step two tell me tell me what's left to pay off yeah we have um so at the beginning of the year i was taking a look at our finances and just realized you know i feel like we're treading water constantly and so i said i told my husband we just need to get get rid of the stupid credit card i hate seeing that thing um So we've paid off $7,000 in credit card debt, and then we owe $39,000 in two car loans. What do you guys earn? You said you live real comfortably. What's the income? Yeah, between my husband's military retirement, his VA disability week, and then I was very fortunate to get a disability retirement. For my employer, we earn about $26,000 a month. And that's never changing. He has, I guess he has a very stable job. Did you say $26,000 a month? Yeah. Yes. Wow. So his military retirement, that portion, that goes on forever and your disability will go on, right? Correct. until I reach retirement age, which is the problem. I don't know that I will actually reach retirement age. Right. And we have 1.2 already in retirement. Okay. So the good news is, yeah, you're exactly right. You have a wonderful, comfortable income coming in. There's no reason in the world that this $39,000 in cars shouldn't be paid off in the next couple months, like lickety split. Two months. Yep. You know what I mean? And I mean, yeah, you're used to, right, you're used to enjoying $26,000 a month, but I think you tighten the purse strings a little bit in several key areas, and I think you can have these cars knocked out, you know, in three months and be rolling. Absolutely. Now, what about the mortgage? It's quite high. we have 648,000 left on it and what's it worth? it's probably worth about 850 okay so yeah I think that you're in baby step 3 well I didn't ask you do you have any liquid cash? surely you do we have some but we've decided to throw that at the cars start to throw that at the cars this month. And how much was that? It was actually not as much as you would expect. Okay. It was $13,000. Okay. And that cleared out your liquid cash? Yes. Okay. So that's exactly right. I probably would have kept maybe $1,000, but you guys have such a great monthly income. Next check, just pull out $1,000, keep it aside for baby step one. And, yeah, keep checking away. at these two car loans right quick. And then you're quickly going to save up three to six months of expenses. In your case, I would do six months of emergency expenses. And then from there, yeah, my whole entire goal would be, of course, we're investing 15%. Of course, we're putting aside a little bit for college. But John, I would set a vacation and experiences fund. For sure. And I would just fill that bad boy up. You guys have a lot of expendable cash. And yeah, I would do it up. I would have a great time Because as long as you're doing the things that cause you to be a financially responsible adult, which you are in the process of doing, and that checklist is five things. If you're a person who is living on a budget, which it sounds like you could tighten yours up quite a bit. If you're a person who is debt-free and prioritizing being debt-free. if you're a person who carries the proper insurances, if you're a person who is prioritizing savings in the way of having your baby step three, making sure that you're putting away for, you know, 15% for retirement, putting extra on your house, right? Your home is a forced savings account. And finally, if you're prioritizing generosity, as long as you're in that land, then yeah, start putting money aside. And yeah, I think that you do need to enjoy life. There's certain things that jump right to the top of the list. Do you know what I'm saying? And Monica, I've had the fortune of sitting with a lot of folks who lost loved ones over the years. Okay. And I, again, this is, this is anecdotal. So take it for what you want. But I heard, I've heard people talking about in their grief about the trip they took. One time me and my husband did X, Y, or Z. Or one time me and, I've heard that some. But man, the things I hear over and over again are the meals and the really hard laughs. And so as you're thinking through this idea you have of shared experiences, of course, y'all talk about the vacations y'all want to go on. And I call them the funeral stories, right? Like the one time we all went to Italy or whatever the thing is y'all want to do. But a really valuable way to just extract the soul out of the life you have going for you that's left, right, is schedule a weekly breakfast with your kids one-on-one. schedule a time that like they're going to tell that story that mom after seven years right and then the next 10 years as this as this challenging disease slowly took over we went to breakfast every week and she always got the same weird pancakes and i I always try something. Those are the stories, right? And so think of the big things, but invest in the little things. And here's the beauty of those little things. They're relatively inexpensive financially. They come at a cost of time and intentionality and planning, but, man, they don't cost a lot of money. And then when the big concert comes to town, good grief, you better go and be on the front row screaming with all you got, right? Because you'll have the resources to do that. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Thank you. And be careful about – it sounds bananas to most of our listeners because they're sitting here going, you make $26,000 a month. That's what comes in your house. But you know as well as I do, that can just slip through your fingers. So Jade's wisdom on make sure you're budgeting and you're intentional with this money. Y'all will be astonished at how much you actually have. Yeah. Y'all can be out of debt here, like completely consumer debt. And then ask the hard question. You and your husband go on a one-day retreat and just say, hey, what do we want the next five to ten years to look like? Do we need an $850,000 house or do we want to downsize? Kids are about to go to college. Do you want to go ahead and sell now or we've got a quarter million dollars of equity in this thing and get a smaller place so that we can spend more intentional time together and not have a mortgage, right? Things like those kind of what do we want our life to look like the next five years. Ten years is probably long for you, but next five years, next three years, right? Have that dreaming conversation and set that thing in motion. Yeah. Thank you. And will you do me a huge favor for your – it's not doing me a favor at all. It's doing it for your kids. Will you make a regular practice once every six months or so, put on the calendar, to write them a letter? And if slowly this Parkinson's takes your writing hand, speak it, record it. write your kids a letter, tell them how proud of them you are, write your husband a letter, and read it to them. Don't let anything go unsaid. Just cherish the moments you got. It was an honor to talk to you. You're a saint. We'll be right back. When you've worked hard to buy a car the right way, you paid cash with no payments hanging over your head, the last thing you want is to worry about it every time you drive it. That's why we trust Christian Brothers Automotive as the official auto repair partner of The Ramsey Show. See, most people don't stress about their car because it's older. They stress about it because they don't know what's happening under the hood or trust the people that are working on it. But Christian Brothers Automotive uses digital vehicle inspections. You can actually see what your technician sees and know what's urgent and what can wait. Plus, Christian Brothers stands behind their work with their nice difference warranty. three years or 36,000 miles, whichever benefits you more. So if you want real peace of mind with the car you worked hard to own, go to CBAC.com slash Ramsey. Use the promo code Ramsey and you'll save 10% off your visit up to $250. CBAC.com slash Ramsey. See store for details. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshall. This is The Ramsey Show. Let's go out to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and talk to Madison. What up, Madison? Hey, thanks for answering my call. Of course. Thanks for calling. What's going on? All right. My question essentially is, do we save up for a new car or a new house? Our situation is we just moved cross-country. Me and my husband and our two kids under two years old. Both of our cars are old and about to croak, and we're currently renting and have never owned a house before. So we're trying to figure out what to do with our assets. How much cash do you have saved? We have about $16,000 of liquid cash. It's kind of like our emergency fund slash available spending money. Well, wait a second now. Hold up. Wait a minute. Thank you. It can't be both. So just real quick. And then I want – you know what? Why don't you go ahead and finish talking, and then I'll come back to that. My husband's the one who mainly manages the finance team. That's why I said that way. Oh, no. We have $12,000. Strike two, Madison. Keep going. Keep going. I'm sorry. No, we're playing. Don't be sorry. We're playing with you. We should be good. I know. $14,000 in a 401K. We've got $2,500 in stocks that my husband manages. zero debt, two bars that we own outright, and then my husband, he just took a new job, and the base salary is going to be $70,000 a year with bonuses. Cool. That's kind of the financial situation we have right now. And you're home with Littles? Yes, yes. Okay. Yeah, hey, kudos on not having any debt. I think that's fabulous. How old are you guys? I am 24, and he's 26. Yes, absolutely. So good. Zero debt. Here's where I'm going to give you good news and bad news. Which one would you like first? Well, good news and hit me with the bad news. Okay. The good news is you're so far ahead of so many people your age because you don't have any debt. You have a fully funded emergency fund. You've got a little bit working in your 401K, and that's a fabulous, fabulous, fabulous place to be. And you've got two healthy little kids. You've got a husband that likes you. And a husband that's, you know, he's got his job cooking. He's starting to take off. You're winning. Yes. So please plant that as a very good seed in your brain because the bad news is you're not really in a position to do either of the things that you said. And you're not far off. It's just I want to reframe that. So let's talk about the emergency fund. the way we teach in the way that I experience it and what I do in my life and what John does in his life is we set aside money for an emergency fund. And that means we don't touch this money unless it is a flat out emergency, which means it has to meet a little bit of criteria to be discerned as an emergency. It has to be completely unexpected. Like, oh, my gosh, I didn't know this was going to happen. This came out the blue. It needs to be urgent. Like, oh, I got to do this like immediately. And it has to be completely necessary. Like I must do this thing. So here's what's going on in your mind. I must do this thing today that I had no clue was going to happen. Like that's how it goes. And so obviously buying a new car or a new house doesn't fall underneath that those parameters. So the good news is you are in a position that today you could begin saving up money to do either of the things that you think is more pertinent, whether it's, man, one of these cars is literally like on its last leg. Let's start saving up $10,000 or whatever amount of money you think you want to spend. No more than your vehicle should be no more than half of his annual income. But you could start to do that. But I wouldn't be in a huge rush to buy a house. No, no, no. And Madison, how old are your kids? They're both under two. So one's like a year and a half, one is three months old. Wild, wild west. You've probably already experienced this, but if you haven't, as a father of two kids sitting next to a woman who's also got her own two kids, I can guarantee you they will use this emergency fund. They will break things. They will set things on fire. They will destroy – like all of it, right? Yep. And so please, please, please give yourself, your nervous system, your home, your marriage, the safety that is having that $16,000 in the bank that we don't touch. Okay. Just pretend like it's not there. The second thing is I want you to give your nervous system, your spirit, the peace it needs and deserves by not just outsourcing the finances to, quote, unquote, the finance guy in the house. You all need to do this thing together. You need to know where the accounts are. You need to know what bills are paying. You all need to be on the same page with your vision for things. The third thing is I know I've been there. I wanted my wife to have the nicest car possible when we had little ones. The reality is y'all can't afford the nicest car, and that's okay. And so even if y'all save up the money, buy a $10,000 car or a $15,000 car, not a $45,000 car, because you're building something together, and a depreciating asset won't get you there. I'd say no more than 15,000 each. Like if you have a car, yours is 15. If he has a car, his is 15. That totals 30. That puts you at that parameter. And can I ask you a personal, personal question? Yeah, sure. I'm super okay being wrong. I'm wrong a lot. The folks on Reddit tell me that. But here's the thing. I'm finishing up a long multi-year project, And something that kept coming up in my conversations with stay-at-home moms, especially young stay-at-home moms, was this. This feeling of I need to do something. I should be – it's that phrase, I should be in a house. I should be driving a nicer car. I'm not providing any economic value to the house because I don't make a salary, so I need to be fill in the blank. And it just was this sense of this built-up, pent-up energy that got spent looking for homes we couldn't afford, looking for houses we should probably buy, reading all these blogs telling me why I'm failing at this version of motherhood or that version of wifehood or whatever. Is that your situation at all? No, I wouldn't say so. I grew up with a stay-at-home mom. My husband did. We're not flashy people. We drive older cars. older cars we just know that we've been so blessed and we're like hyper aware of the head start we were given and we want to make sure our kids have the same thing so it's kind of like what can we do to like be good stewards now so go slow go slow the tortoise wins every time every time you read that book the tortoise wins and all your stuff you have it's kind of like if there were like different containers that you needed to fill up you've got a little bit in each container that's ready to grow and ready to keep going. Like you've got a little bit in your 401k. Keep doing that. You know, keep putting 15 percent at this point. You're on baby step four. Right. So keep 15 percent of your husband's gross income every single month into that 401k. Maybe husband sells his twenty five hundred dollars in stock that he's playing with. And that's the seed for your new car. Exactly. Exactly. And yeah, just keep working away at it. And once you've funded the cars that you think you need, then yeah, I would start and I would kind of go back to 3B, which is saving for the down payment of your house. And if you want to do that at the same time as you're investing, you can. Or if you want to unplug investing for two to three years, you can unplug your investing that 15%. You could stop that and put that towards your house fund for a little while. And Jade, I don't know about you, but there's been times that my wife and I save up for a car and we get that chunk of money in there. And we're both like, hey, the cars are fine. Let's put that on a house or let's put that on like once you get that big pile of cash it's hard just to go throw it in a car sometimes true that let me tell you something i see all the time people are working hard trying to get control of their money, and then their phone bill shows up higher than expected. Again. 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That's BoostMobile.com slash Ramsey. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan. let's go out to the atl atl atlanta georgia and talk to hannah where is hannah here i'm trying to find her on the thing here line two what's up hannah hey how are y'all doing great how are you i'm doing well thank you so much for taking my call you got it what's going on Okay, so I just need some guidance with the situation that I have found myself in. My husband was married 10 years next month, and in January, he very abruptly shut down his small business permanently after about three years. After he did that, I found out a few days after he decided to do that, that he was in deep financial trouble with the business. somewhere between $100,000 to $250,000 is a rough guess that I have. And then found out yesterday that we are about $4,200 behind on our mortgage. We are about, with the business and all, about $40,000 behind in taxes. I got a notice that the water would be shut off today. And then yesterday, yesterday um got a call that he had about seven thousand dollars owed in a credit card that i didn't know about and two i'm sorry my voice is shaking i'm a little bit nervous and i am home with our three children he left two days ago to attend the police academy and it's completely inaccessible um and until next week wow so um that shaking in your voice that terror inside your chest, it's right. Hear me say this. You're not crazy. We call this here financial infidelity. The trust that was the foundation of your marriage has been turned to ash. You feel like you're free fall and you are. Hear us say that we're with you. Okay. Okay. This is a scary, scary situation. I would also like to throw in here that about a year and a half into our marriage, a very similar circumstance happened. Very similar to what I'm saying. And we worked through all of that. And then about four years later, it happened again. Oh, no. And worked through it again. Is it him starting businesses and them failing? No. Or it's just some sort of a... This is the first time. Yeah, it's just like he had two cars with car loans that I didn't know about and then multiple credit cards I didn't know about and a lot of purchases and money owed. It's been a pattern for our entire marriage. Does he shut you out of knowing about the finances or is he saying, here's the account that we're spending money on and you know everything that's going on with that? But then he goes to the side and just does obviously God knows what. Or are you pretty much like I'm out of everything? Now I'm pretty much out of everything because he was using the business account for all of our personal finances, which I'm not on any of. And how did you have money to spend? He would transfer money into our personal check-in account, which I had a debit card for. Oh, geez. Oh, boy. And just a little bit a month for you to do what you needed to do? Any time that I needed to purchase anything, the picture was painted that we had a ton of money in. So if I wanted to go for a shopping day or book a trip or anything at all, it was not a big deal at all. He would just slide it over to you. Okay. Here's what I want you to do today. I have a feeling in my guts that this is not the bottom of the mess, that there's more out there. Unfortunately. Okay. I want you to pull your credit report, and if you are able to pull his, get his too, and at least get a picture. And if you can't pull his, I don't want you to commit fraud, but I want that to be the first thing when you all are able to communicate. Okay. Because you're in a – you've got three little ones. You need to focus on four walls ASAP because they're about to take your house. They're about to take your – shut your water off. You're about to shut your electricity off, right? You're in a five-alarm fire right now. Okay. Do you have access to any cash at all? Before he left, he gave me about $500 in cash. But there's no money in a checking account or anything? I think there's about $100 in our checking account. Oh, my gosh. Do you have family nearby? Yes, I do. I do, sorry. That's mom and dad or sisters and brothers? What is it? Just my mom and dad. Okay. Yeah. Here's what I'm thinking about. And John, jump in at any point. You've been a stay at home mom. Have you have you been in the workforce at all at any point? Yes, I'm a registered nurse, but I decided to stay at home with our children for a little while. OK, fabulous, because my brain goes to if you have to exit the situation, how can you stay on your feet? How can you keep yourself afloat? Because it sounds like there's going to be a lot of there. If this comes to a point where it goes before a judge, all of this is going to come out and it's going to be a lot more there. Yeah. And I just want to make sure you're OK. And so for me, it's great that if you have family, community, friends around you that can help you for a season of time if you need it. and I love that you have a career path if you have to go back to work and if kids, gosh, end up having to go to daycare or something like that. I feel confident after hearing what you said that you'd be able to make that transition. Yeah. Do you? Yeah. The reality is you need to come up with $5,500 like today. Okay. I mean, you've got to write down, and you might call the mortgage company and tell them what's going on, that you're just getting notice of this and you're going to try to make it right. And just let them know I'm a terrified, scared, stay-at-home mom. My husband's at the police academy, and I'm just getting all these notices. Right. And I would write down, and they'd be my first call since you're behind $4,200. I don't know. Is that two months or three months? How far behind is that? I think it's about two months plus fees. Okay. I would call them and just let them know I hear you. I see this. I'm just getting this like you all are. and I need to come up with a plan here, and they might give you an extension or a plan. I don't know the terms of your mortgage. I don't know your relationship with your mortgage company. And then I would write down what's the electric bill, how far behind are you, what's the water bill. Like these four walls we talk about, do you have transportation? Do you have electricity? Do you have water? Do you have a home? Do you have food, right? And you're at that level. And it might be that – I don't even think might be. I think you're at a position now, this is scary enough that you need to call your family and say, hey, I've got to go start applying for nursing jobs this afternoon. But even then, you won't get a paycheck for another month at the earliest, right? But it's like I need to drop my kids off starting now. And none of this is what you planned. None of this is what you wanted. but this is, you're a scared, basically a scared single mom who's in a big, big, big mess because you were betrayed by your husband again and again and again. And so this is just choosing reality. We'll grieve later. We will be sad later. We'll be mad and angry later. I got to go get some money right now. And I would hate for you to run down to the credit union and see if you get another loan because that's the last thing you'll need is yet another pile on, right? Yeah. The good news is you probably have the cash to keep the water on. You probably have some food in the house, keep some groceries going. My question, and I'm not trying to get dramatic, you know for a fact that he went to police academy? Like he's coming back? Yes. You have contact with him? Okay. I'm trying to make sure he didn't skip out. But I mean that's going to be a $50,000-year job, right? I hope so. I think so. I mean not while he's in academy. It'll probably be much less than that until he gets out. But even then, that's not going to cover this mess y'all are in. No. Right. And I don know the fullness kind of what you were saying about going before a judge and all of that But he has had some police reports filed and I had people locate me on Facebook to try and remedy some business things going on So someone suggested I get security cameras at my house. It might be time for you to go stay with your family members and leave the house for a bit. I'm going to ask you to do that. I want you to go stay with your family members, step out of this situation for a minute. and I want you to call an attorney and they'll walk you through getting to the bottom of the mess. So sorry you're going through this. If you run a business, you already know this. Bad information leads to bad decisions. And right now, AI is everywhere. But AI is only as good as the data behind it. The best AI is built on the best data. That's why I recommend NetSuite. NetSuite is the number one AI cloud ERP and more than 43,000 businesses run on it, including us here at Ramsey Solutions. Their AI isn't bolted on. It's built in. And it connects everything that runs your business. accounting, inventory, customer data, all in one place. Because when your numbers are connected, AI actually works like it's supposed to. NetSuite's AI helps flag cash flow problems, spot inventory issues, close your books faster, and cut down on manual reporting. If your revenue is at least seven figures, go to netsuite.com slash Ramsey for a free product tour. That's netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Yo, we get thousands of calls and emails for folks trying to be on the show. We wish we could get to every call and question here. But if you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on this show. It's got proven Ramsey principles that will answer some of your money questions and get you where you need to go. You'll get an answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. Ask your question today at RamseySolutions.com or just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast and YouTube. Let's go out to Lexington, Kentucky and talk to Lisa. Hey, what's up, Lisa? Hi, how are you all doing? Thank you so much for taking my call. You bet. Thanks for calling. What's going on? Yeah, so how do my husband and I have the conversation, or should we try to have a second conversation with my father-in-law about the importance of getting life insurance? Just a little back story. He's the sole income earner for their family. My mother-in-law has been a stay-at-home mom for the last 20-some-odd years. and my brother-in-law who has some disabilities and is unable to work lives with them as well. My father-in-law, he's kind of of the impression that, you know, you can always get it later. It's not important right now. Just doesn't have a good opinion on it. And so as me and my husband, we have life insurance. We see the value of it. My mother-in-law, she was like, hey, tell me about life insurance. What should I be looking for? What should I not be looking for? And so we're not just wanting to give unsolicited advice to them. So how do we have a second conversation or how should we approach the subject? Well, it sounds like there's two things going on. One is mom is feeling exposed. I'm worried about dad. And then dad is saying, I don't really care if she feels exposed. I'm not doing this. Yeah, they don't have any consumer debt. They just have their mortgage. She said that they were looking, they've been shopping for life insurance. They have a person that's looking for them. And they brought up the idea of mortgage insurance, but the value that they were being told and that he's convinced about, it's not even going to cover their mortgage. Yeah, and the problem with that is you still have a stay-at-home mom and a special-needs son. They need insurance. Right. So I'll tell you, this is going to sound like an ad, but I was using Xander insurance for my term life insurance for me and my wife for years before I even thought about coming over to Ramsey because I trust him. And then when I got to Ramsey, Xander's who we endorse and who we've been talking about for years and years and years. But that's where I would go. And Xander Tops, this is like a commercial. Xander, they shop all of the top companies or many of the top companies to find you the best price. They work for you and not for the insurance companies. And so they're going to bring you, here's how much money you got. Here's how old you are. Here's how expensive it's going to be. Here's the price. And depending on his age and all that, it's going to factor into it. But that's not where I would go. That's where I did go. Yeah. I would bring your husband into this. Yeah, it's his conversation to have. Yeah, he's fully in it. He had a conversation with his father, and his father kind of, like, he blew up, and he got mad about it. He was saying that, you know, it's only greedy people that have life insurance, and he believes that it's this, like, crackpot idea. And we're like, but no, it's, like, because you love people and because you want to make sure that the people that you care about, you know, as you all say, like, you want to fall for peace. You want to make sure they have peace when they're grieving, right? You don't want to add to it. I've sat with people who lost their husbands, and they've got nothing. And they're looking at going to work on Monday. Right. I mean, it's a harrowing experience sitting with a widow who realizes, oh, we got nothing. I'm going to be honest with you. This kind of ego in older men pisses me off at a way I can't even comprehend because they're going to bleat me because the show's on the radio. I get so mad at this kind of arrogance and ego and dismissiveness of your wife, your special needs kids. It makes me infuriated. But here's the deal. Y'all can't do anything about it. Yeah. And I'm just curious because, you know, if Ken were here, he would say to just ask questions instead of instead of saying you need to do this, you need to do that. A couple of well-placed and well-thought through questions that you just let hang in the air when you say, OK, if the worst happens, dad, and, you know, on the way home, you get in an accident. how is mom going to pay the mortgage? How are, you know, I don't know what the brother of mom's name, how are we going to take care of little Bobby? How are we going to, I'm just wondering what your plan for that is. Or have you considered what your plan for that is? Right? Maybe come up with one or two questions that your son can ask at the right time with dad. It's not in the middle of a heated argument. It's not, you know, when they're already talking about one thing and now he brings this up too. it's they go to breakfast they go out just the two of them and at the right time he says you know we've had a lot of questions we've had a lot of conversations about this I'm just wondering you know and he asks the two questions and just let it sit there and his dad might look at him and say she's going to be your problem right that may happen and then to which he can say no that's not an option you're going to have to come up with something yeah Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, me and my husband are both firstborn kids. Like, my mom currently lives with us. You know, so we've kind of taken that on ourselves. We're both very financially stable. So, like, we've kind of prepared ourselves for that. You know, if we do have to take care of my husband's mom as well. Sure. Like, we would be able to. But, again, you know, like, that's not supposed to be our job. It's supposed to be her husband. Right. Well, and here's the deal. It's just – it's choosing reality. Yeah. Right? It should be, and he's looking at y'all and saying – looking at his wife and saying, nope, I'm not going to, which again, I just cannot wrap my head around that kind of ignorance and ego. But it is what it is, so we're going to choose reality, and we're going to start making that play. And I think you've got a tiny crack in the door in that mom asked for it. So I'm going to give mom the Xander contact for term life insurance. Do not, do not, do not buy some nonsensical whole life policy. Oh, no, no. I've been listening to you all long enough. Yeah, you know it. You know the deal. Yeah, we're going to send it on to them, and we're going to go from there. Let me tell you something, John. I'm getting frustrated because I feel like the top two calls that we've been getting lately, and I'm not picking on men. I'm just telling you what I'm getting. The top two calls are a wife who calls in and her husband is either locking her out of the money, doing something shady with the money. She's kind of been removed little by little from the situation. And now like all hell is breaking loose. Or it's families who the parents cannot get their act together. And they're leaving and burdening their children with things that they should be taking care of themselves as adult grown people with grown jobs and grown houses. And I'm just like, what is going on? Yeah. Get your life together. Get your act together. What's going on? That's my question for the heads of families here. It's what are y'all doing? You need to get yourself together. I can't wrap my head around. I mean I can't I'm going to sound like a broken record I can't get my head around the arrogance and the Your daughter-in-law should not have to call into a national YouTube and radio show saying he doesn't care enough about his own wife to take out coverage that's going to cost him I don't know 300 bucks a quarter My father-in-law has such deep-seated arrogance that when his son came to him, he blew up and threw a third grade temper tantrum because he couldn't handle a hard conversation with his son. Well, that's the through line is arrogance. It's arrogance on both of those spectrums. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And by the way, for folks listening, the previous segment, we had a caller, her name was Hannah, and talking about the financial mess and multiple issues. And as the call kept going on and on and on, she brought up issues of personal safety and maybe she needs to get security cameras. I want everyone listening to know off air, we obviously circle back and providing her with some resources. And we'll do our due diligence when it comes to paying for financial coaching for her and things like that. But also with contacting local police and authorities because a woman with three young kids does not need to be worrying about, Why should I go get security cameras? Because the mess that my awful, terrible husband has left me in has now jeopardized our safety. So just know, listeners, we're taking care of folks behind closed doors, too. We're not just going to leave people hanging. Fathers, husbands, take care of your families. That's how low the bar is. We'll be right back. welcome back jade my blood pressure still up listen mine is too but you know at the end of the last segment, we kind of went in on like dad's men needing to step up. But let me also say for the ones that do, because that it's such a blessing. And we were talking over the break, I was telling him about something that Sam, my husband did that is like, just showing up just doing the best you can. And if you do have, I'm totally taking this from you. If you do have a man in your life, that is a real man, like doing the best he can, leading for the family, financially, you know doing all the transparency please tell him please go home today and be like thank you thank you for being the opposite of what sometimes calls into the ramsey show we need men like that we need leaders like that we're grateful for you keep doing what you do and i'll just say from my brothers up there the bar is so low show up like just show up show up when she calls and says, hey, I got you. I got it. Yeah. I got it. Put your ego aside, man. And by the way, when you set your ego down, life is so much more fun. It's so much more fun. Yes, to just let somebody see who you really are. Yes. That's all I'll say. Alright, let's roll on to Atlanta. Let's go back to Atlanta and talk to Chelsea. What's up, Chelsea? Hello. Thank you for having me on. Thanks for calling. What's going on? um yes i'll go ahead and just back you up and say that we are in a positive marriage a very great marriage and we have a positive financial experience good what's his name forrest shout out forrest shout out that's what i'm talking about shout out good men on this show all right so what's going on how can we help yeah so we've been working through the baby steps we've paid off all of our debt. We have our emergency fund created. We jumped ahead and already have five two nines going for our two children, and we have a third on the way. Thank you. But yeah, so we're on baby step four, technically, with the investments trying to save 15%. And I guess I'll ask the question and kind of explain, but my overall question is, does it ever make sense to work on baby step number six in the mortgage before completing the 15% for investments? Oh, you're talking my language. Go ahead. Why is that? Tell me the reason behind it. So it makes sense in my head, but I am a stay-at-home mom, but I also do freelance marketing. So I'm bringing in about $2,500 a month. And then my husband makes about $125,000 a year. With his company, he has a 401k 4% match that he participates in. He also has an ESPP company stock program. So he puts 10% away to that every month or every paycheck. But then every six months, he gets a 15% discount for the company stock if you were to sell it. How quickly is that fast? In previous years. Sorry? How quickly does that vest? I'm not sure. Okay, so I'm not sure I understand that question. Sometimes with stock option purchases, when you're able to buy stock from the company, you have to sit on it for 24 months before you can turn around and sell it. Sometimes you can buy it and then sell it the next day. Usually if you're buying at a discount, they don't let you do that, though. Okay, yeah. So it's every six months. So he participates in it. Every paycheck takes 10%. And then it's every July 1st and every January 1st you can sell it for a 15% discount. Okay. So here's – And that does have capital gains tax, if this is maybe answering your question. Well, I don't care about that. How much is in that account right now? Right now there's about $15,000, I think. Okay. Yeah. So generally, this has been our house project fund as how, you know, we had to get new siding. We had a new deck. Things that would help us not go into debt if we use this. But now our house is at a good place. So we're thinking it's either investment or putting it to the house. Well, I think you've just got to I think you've got to recalibrate on your investing because you've got 10 percent going towards a single stock, a single company stock, which is not what we would suggest. I hear you on the 4% 401k. So you're investing 4% there. Your company is matching it. I would not put the other 10% in the company stock. I would put the other 10% in the 401k. Even if it's a very good, well-known company. Yes, even if it is. I don't know if I shouldn't drop it. No, don't drop the name. But a good investment is diversified. Yeah, I'll tell you right now, I just had this with a close personal friend of mine, got a stock option windfall of $2.25 a year ago. And I said, it was a single stock, and it was this hole, you could move it over here. And I said, hey, cash it out now, sell it. And they said, are you crazy? We're making these investments, and this is a global company. that person just recently called we were talking on the phone and said bro that stock is at 160 now should have listened to you and so it it it it doesn't matter how good they're telling you it's good we're doing this and we're stable when you're sitting on a single stock there's no checks and balances yeah it's just up or down and i i have a personal lived experience my mom worked at this tiny little company called Enron, which I think was the fourth biggest company on the planet. And it went away over a weekend, right? And so I am big on if you get one single company stock and they give you a deal to buy on it, great. And the moment you can vest it, cash it out and either put it in retirement or use it to pay it on your house or whatever. But get out of that stock because just holding it and holding it a single stock with all that money, man, you are playing roulette. But yeah, if I could if I could recalibrate this today, I would make it to where you're investing the 10 percent along with the other 4 percent into the company 401k. And, you know, if you max that out, then you can move over to a Roth IRA. You can do one. He can do one. And then if there's a little bit of money left or if there's, you know, something that he's required to do, that's fine. But I would change that lickety split because you don't want all of your money tied up in this. And if you're saying, well, we're still investing in the 401k, you're only investing 4%. And our rule here is if there's a match, it's a fantastic thing, but we really just consider that gravy. Like we really want you working the muscle of 15% because what if he switches jobs and there is not a 4% match, right? Or what if something changes with your situation? So we always want you kind of in the driver's seat of what you're doing with your money. And, yeah, consider that 4% like gravy on top of a biscuit is what Dave Ramsey would say. How much do you have left on your mortgage? So we have $252,000 left on the mortgage. And we are also, I should say, we put $100 a month. I know it's not much, but $100 a month to his personal IRA as well. Okay. And then overall investments, we probably have over about $200,000 in all of our investments right now. Are you putting that in a traditional IRA or a Roth IRA? A Roth. Okay, great. $200,000, does that include the stock you have on the side? The $15,000, yeah. Okay, all right. Yeah, you know, if I were you, whatever company stock you do have, I'm with John. I would, you know, cash that out. Maybe that goes towards your mortgage. Or that goes in your Roths, and you can max them both out this year and call it. Because here's what it sounds like you're doing. It sounds like you're putting in 4% of your own money into a retirement vehicle, and then you're taking approximately the rest of the 15% and you're just putting it into a stock and you are using that stock as kind of like a glorified emergency fund-ish to deal with house stuff. Right, which we're done with now and we want to do well with it. So even if we didn't do the ESPP at this point, though, I think maybe my question might still stand if I can ask that too. The original one about paying off the mortgage first? Yes, just because thinking about even if we did the 10% just to regular either 401k or the Roth IRA, we would still need about $400 a month from our budget somewhere in order to hit the 15%. That's right. And I don't know where we would exactly get it right now. Like there would be pennies and whatnot. Yeah, definitely. And you might have to pinch pennies. So one thing about the baby steps is just because you've paid off your debt and now you're starting to invest, it doesn't mean that you're all of a sudden rolling in a bunch of extra money because you're now investing 15%. So you're going to have to get to your budget and take a look at this because what I don't want is for you to say, ah, it feels better to pay off the mortgage instead. And before you know it, you look up and you've neglected your investing. The mortgage is going to get paid off. You're going to find little bits of money here and there. I'm sure he makes bonuses that you can pay this off. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm John Deloney, joined by the world-famous Jade Warshaw, taking your calls on your money, your life, your relationships, everything. 888-825-5225. Let's go out to Fort Worth, Texas and talk to Allison. Hey, Allison, what's going on? Hi, Dr. John. Hey, Jade. How are you guys? We're doing awesome. What's up? Well, I've found the Ramsey information somewhat recently. So although we're in a pretty good spot financially, I really appreciate that it's prompted me to kind of look at our whole financial picture and realize that we need to go back and readjust some things or fill in some gaps. So thank you for all that you do with that. Very cool. Welcome to the cult. Welcome. And I realize I have a question about 529s that I haven't heard you guys address before. Okay. We have opened up a 529 account for each of our kids when they were young. And we've been very blessed that each set of grandparents wants to help us save for the kids' college. One set of grandparents will make contributions directly to the 529s that we have opened, and the other set of grandparents has opened their own account for each child. Nice. Okay. Nice. And I'm unsure of, is there any kind of logistical things you should be aware of? I'm going to set you free. Are you ready? Sure. I'm going to set you free. It's their money, and they're choosing to do it that way. And so I would open my hands to it, and I would get with my spouse and plan as though that money won't be there. Okay. Because fighting them over it, it just is that way. And for whatever reason, that's how they've chosen to do it with their money. And I would just say, great, cool. Well, I don't think it's a bad thing. No, it's not, but it's just how they're doing it. and trying to talk to them about it or discuss it about it just is what that is. I don't know, though, Jade. I don't know the logistics of can a grandparent open a 529 for a kid and a parent open a 529 for a kid and both of those accounts be used to pay for the same kid. I don't know the answer to that question. So, like, the way that ours is, my mother-in-law opened it because it was something she was gifting before Sam and I, well before we were out of debt. And then so she technically was the owner on the account. And then she set up me and my husband as like we would be owner in succession. Like if she died or something, we'd become the owner. But we all have access. We can all add money into the account. And then the kids are set up as the beneficiary. So that's just kind of the way it's been. And I don't know if we transferred it at some point into our name, but I think it's still in her name. And it doesn't matter because she's not using it. She's 63 years old. Allison, I got to tell you, I'm super biased. I worked at universities for like 20 years. And so the number of students I met with and parents I met with who had a grandparent holding a checkbook saying, my grandkids are going to study X, Y, or Z, and they're not going to be in this program, and they're going to go to this school. Man, I was just like, dude, if anyone wants to try to play puppeteer over my life with their checkbook, I'm out. And so take my bias for what it is. If they hold this account, just assume it's their money and they're going to want to steward it how they best see fit. And that might be turning it over to the parents and saying, wherever junior wants to go to college, that's awesome. Or whatever junior wants to trade school or whatever wants to study, great. But they might use it as, no, no, my grandkids go into this school if they want my money. And you can say, cool, we've already made other arrangements. So my answer has a big bias to it, but that just is what it is. Which that would be – I mean if they did that, listen, we've heard all sorts of calls on this radio, so anything is possible. But if they did, it would be such a waste because then it's like, well, they're not going to that school, so now what are you going to do? But, you know, the good news is you can have multiple 529s that fund a single student. Like, that's fine. It's no problem if you've got one over here, one over there, and one over there. Do you sense that that's what they're trying to do? Or are they just like, hey, it's a financial thing. We want to do our thing over here. We don't want to mingle it up. I get that. I don't believe that there's any kind of ill intent in it. They're being very generous, so we definitely appreciate that. I think I was more of a potential concern, like, I don't know the logistics around. I saw somewhere when this once opened, which was, you know, maybe posted 10 years ago. So I don't know if laws have changed since then. But that if a child received money from an account other than the parents directly, that it counted as income for them and it could somehow, you know, either affect taxes or financial aid or something like that. So are you aware of anything along those lines? I'm not. I'm not. I've not heard that. Okay. That sounds too vague for me to form a clear opinion on it. I would just double check whatever your question is, like form a clear question around that. I mean, if the money is used for education expenses, there shouldn't be an issue. Now, what you said about financial aid, I'm not sure what you're trying to – I wouldn't play that game at all anyway, yeah. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish there. Okay, got it. The goal would be pay cash, use the 529s, use them up, and be grateful to whoever's contributed. Yeah, let's put some money in on your kids' cash. And let's say there is a tax liability at some point down the road. It's still going to be far less than tuition was, right? There shouldn't be if they're using it for education expenses. Now, if they're just pulling it out, I mean, if you're pulling it out, you're going to be on a 10% penalty for sure, and that's going to be income taxed. But, hey, Allison, can we just tell you, welcome to the gang. Thank you. Yeah, I listen to you guys all the time, strolling the baby around the neighborhood and doing chores in the house. So I really appreciated all your advice. Awesome. Well, thank you so, so much for calling. Really grateful. Hot take. Hot take is I probably should dial back some of my biases. I just have so many experiences that taint my rosy picture of the world sometimes. Well, I was going to ask your hot take on 529s. What do you think about when you are with friends and it's like a gift-giving situation, like a birthday or Christmas, and they're like, just give to my kids 529 plan, and they're sending you a link? Good or bad? I had a buddy with the, I mean, one of my closest friends in the world, the guy who's the executor of my will, he opened an account when Hank was born and said, at the time, and this was right, he's like, I don't super trust you, so I am starting an account for your kid, and every year on his birthday, I'm going to add money to it, and when he goes to school, I'll pass it on. So it was a cool, generous, awesome thing. Yeah. I mean, like, it's Hank's birthday. Oh, and I'm going to send out a link. And you send out a link that's like, hey. I'm probably not doing that. Donate to my kids 529. Is it tacky or hacky? What do you think? I think it's tacky. I go with a big capital T. I think it's tacky. Yeah. I know someone who's done it. Let's give their name and address on the air. I may have hosted with him. Oh, I can tell you. Listen. Does his dog have a wheelchair? You got to do what you got to do. you gotta do what you gotta do that's all i'm gonna say no i'm going full tacky on that one and he knows who he is we'll be right back Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That RamseySolutions The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y Defaulted private student loans can leave you feeling stuck and overwhelmed, but Y-Refi helps you explore refinancing options with a low fixed rate and a payment based on what you can actually afford. Visit Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey may not be available in all states. Okie dokie. Today's question comes from Jared in Wyoming. He says, I realize that money is a personal topic and it can be volatile. But when I hear my co-workers brag about credit card points, it makes my head spin. How do you recommend discussing financial issues in casual social settings? Should I engage in conversation and try to be helpful? or just keep to myself. I'm going to tell you a story about what I don't do. And I learned it because I was around someone who did do it. So I'm mostly a plant-based eater. I don't eat meat. Occasionally I'll do some dairy. But I once knew somebody who was so heavy-handed with every situation. If she was in a situation when other people were eating meat, it was like, I can't believe you're eating meat. Like, this is the worst. Like, how could you, right? And it's just such an off-putting. Like, it was giving all of us a bad name. I was like, hey, you need to stop that. It's making all of us look bad. Because nobody likes to be beat over the head with something that they possibly don't agree with. And they didn't even ask your opinion anyway. And they don't really care what you do. And they like doing what they're doing, right? So I'm the type who, I mean, John, you know me. I don't really talk about I most of my friends are carnivores and that makes them happy and I'm fine with it. And I don't really mention it. And because I don't care and they don't care. And we eat together and we eat together in peace. And one day if John is like, hey, I noticed you never eat meat. Tell me about that. Then I'm happy to tell him about it. And I'm literally just sharing it from my perspective. So I'm on the other side of this. Tell me. In 2012, there was rumblings in the nerd community. right um about this the effect of ketogenic diets got you okay okay okay so this is before they became mainstream and everything was keto right i went down rabbit holes i met with everybody i could i talked to folks over at the med school but i became the most annoying human who's ever lived every i mean someone could ask me a question about higher ed finance and i'd figure out a way to turn it back into, you need to be eating a ketogenic. I was the, I was unbearable. Were you? I mean, I was the worst and I'm bad now. I was so bad. And so, um, and a, I was wrong on a huge chunk of what I was preaching about and I was unbearable. So annoying to be around. And so I – from that and a couple other things, I just adopted a policy, which is – I try – I fail sometimes, but most of the time I try to answer questions if you ask. And so when it comes to people talking about how I do my money and look how much I make, I just smile. And by the way, to everybody who thinks Dave is out lecturing his friends, Dave's friends lease cars. Dave's friends have credit cards. You don't hear him preaching about it. They know what he thinks about it, and he's their friend, and they're his friend. And so – and I joke about this. My oldest best friend on the planet is a banker. Yes. And here's what that means. That means every day he goes to work hoping I fail in my job on the Ramsey show. And every day I go on the air hoping to put him out of business. And he's my best friend on the planet. Yeah. And so we have – we disagree about this thing, and he loves my family, and I love his family, and I love him, and he loves me. and, dude, I'll go to war for that guy and vice versa. Yes. We disagree about this, and we don't have to preach and fight and argue about it, right, and all that. And I'll go out on an even further limb because in culture, and I know I'm opening a can of worms here, we can tend to vilify the folks who aren't on our same stratosphere. Like we don't have the same opinions. You don't vote like me. You don't this, and you got the shot, and you didn't get the shot. Yes. It's madness. Sometimes we can think, oh, if they're not doing it our way, they're wrong. Yeah. Or worse, they're evil. Or they're bad. Yeah. And the thing is, here's the thing. There's plenty of people out there, John, and I know a few. They have their credit card. They pay it off every month. Do I agree with that? No, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't teach it. I wouldn't, right? But they do it, and they're fine. They're not bad. They're not broke. They're not. They're doing fine. Now, plenty of them are broke. Yeah. Most of them are. Let's do that, right? But you got to just let people live their life. They're grown. You don't have to insert yourself. You don't have to. There's a lot of ways to do life out there. And people are people are doing just fine. Yeah. And if they're struggling, that's usually when they you can sense that. And, you know, you can ask God or whatever you do to open up that opportunity to kind of share a little bit. But other than that, and I'm not saying that Jared is doing that. I'm really going out on a limb here. But just don't go out looking for a fight. A fight. Yes. Like looking to defend yourself. Just the toughest guys I know, the guys who fought professionally are the guys who will walk away and grab their wife's hand or grab their kid's hand and get in their car and go home because they got nothing to prove. Right. Right. They don't have to throw a punch. I don't have anything to prove to you. Yeah. Right. And so I so, Jared, great, great question. And we've all dealt with this. Yeah. I would smile and let them just talk. And if they ask you, what's your opinion? I don't mess with credit cards. I don't play with credit cards. I don't want single moms who are struggling with overdraft bills to pay for my free flights. So I don't deal with – See, now you already went deep really fast. You went deep really fast. I'll say it, and it usually shuts up the conversation. But if you ask, I'll tell you. But, dude, I want us to have a good time tonight. So run your mouth, and we can move on with our days. Agree. Agree. I love it. All right, let's roll out to H-Town and talk to Dean. Dean, I'm up against the clock, so get right to your question, brother. Hey, how y'all doing? We're doing good, man. I'm kind of a little nervous. I'm going through a lot. I have $144,000 worth of debt just myself. Me and my wife recently got married a year ago. She has about $12,000 worth of debt in student loans and $1,200 worth of debt in credit cards. I recently just wanted to start getting my life together. Me and her recently got saved, and I really felt a call to really get my finances in order. And so I went ahead and paid off my car and paid off of my credit card. And so I still have that $144,000 worth of debt. I'm having trouble getting my wife on board with me with this living debt free. She's not on board with it. So I'm kind of doing doing this all by myself. We agreed to have a wedding. And we recently last night just found out that she is pregnant. All right. And so now we have about 14,000 worth saved towards the wedding that we have probably agreed that we're not going to do the wedding anymore, at least right now. and so my question is what do I do with my finances like what position do you guys feel like that I am in my finances and also how do I get across to her to be on board with me with this being that free thing so let me be clear so if you guys don't do the party like you don't do the wedding party I still think you should get married go in the courthouse and get married yeah I think that's just going to solidify we're already married in the courthouse okay fabulous okay you know Now, I love that you are interested in getting yourself together. You've had you had a transformative moment, right? You you had a moment. God shined down. You're like, I'm doing this thing and ready, set, go. So sometimes when you have a moment like that, that's just a catalyst and you're just ready to go, you're assuming that the person next to you should just jump right into your level of excitement. And it's not always like that. And sometimes it's multiple conversations of you sharing your heart and sharing your fears for them to even be like, okay, I may not share your passion, but I'll go along with you on this ride until maybe one day I do. That's me and my wife, Dean. As a Texas male, it's hard to sit down in front of your wife and say, hey, my past actions have led me to a point where I'm scared about our future. Yeah. Would you join me in this? And I'll tell you, like, if she's ride or die, like a good spouse is, my wife was like, I don't have that same fear that you have, but I'm in. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Hey, hang on the line. You asked us a couple of big questions, and I want to make sure we answer this thing all the way. I'm going to hold you over the break. We usually don't do that, but I'm going to hold you over the break. So hang on the line, and we will come back to you right after this commercial break. All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted Agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at Ramsey solutions.com slash agent. That's Ramsey solutions.com slash. Are you sick and tired of working so hard, but have nothing to show for it? That's normal. And normal is broke. You don't have to live that way. Our Every Dollar Budget app helps you find extra money every month and builds you a personalized plan to beat debt and build wealth. In just 15 minutes, you'll find thousands in hidden margin. You'll feel like you've got a raise. Don't live normal when you can live like no one else. Start Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. All right. Right before the last break, I took a call from Dean in H-Town in Houston. and Dean has just realized he's got a ton of debt, recently married, got a new baby. He just found out last night that him and his wife are pregnant and he is trying to get his wife on board. He wants to get his financial house in order and so we held him over. We're going to walk him through how to clean this mess up and get his feet underneath him. Dean, you there? Yep. Alright man, thanks for hanging over the break with us. Alright, we're going to walk you through the plan here on out. One question I got for you. What's this $140K? You said you got rid of your credit cards. You paid them off. You paid off your car. What's this $140K? It's all student loan debt. All student loan debt. It's federal. I have 99 in states. Wow. Okay. What do you do for a living, brother? I do real estate now. I went to school for business, but I recently got a job in real estate two years ago. And, yeah, so I do real estate now. What's your annual income? uh last year i made 65 000 this year uh god has blessed me so much i've already made 40 000 in the last three months and if i stay on this pace i'll be at like 125 to 150 if i can just continue on how i'm doing now outstanding dude that means you're getting your feet under you in that in a wonky business man congratulations dude yeah what about your wife what's she earn every month or yearly uh yeah she makes 40 000 she's a dental assistant so she makes about 40 000 Okay. So there's a couple things linked in here. Let's first talk about debt aside and paying off debt aside. How does she feel about combining your finances together and just saying, hey, we have one account, both of our paychecks go into it, we have transparency, we make financial decisions together, that whole bag. How does she feel about that? She actually wants that. I've been the one that's hesitant to do that. Why? with our marriage. Just because we just don't think about finances the same way. You know, for instance, we recently had a conversation about the fact that she has a lease, and with me, she's leasing a car. Right. And me kind of finding more out about finances, and she was just like, I'm not giving up my lease. Right. I like to have a new car every three years. But let's take that. Let's take financial philosophy off the table for just a second. And just the idea of combining to become one. And we're just going to do this thing together to have full transparency, which aside from because it's going to take some time for you guys to have similar values. And you're never going to think the same. You're just going to have similar values. So if you just say, hey, I married this woman, I'm in it now. Could you be on board with let's have transparency? Let's share. Let's do this thing together. And we're not talking about debt and plans yet. we're just combining our money. Would you be okay with that? Yeah. Let me put it this way. You've already combined DNA to make a human. The least you can do is combine your checking account, right? Yeah. Yeah. You're already in it now. Yeah. Because we do have a joint account where we do bills, but we haven't done the whole thing. Yeah. There you go. I think that's your first step. Because we teach baby steps around here and we have seven financial baby steps. But there's just I think for you, there's even some smaller layers that we can get to that is just going to help you inch towards where you want to go. So I think tonight that's the first conversation you have is it's not about paying off debt. It's not about accomplishing goals. It's just, hey, you know, we're married. We're about to have a baby together. Let's do this money thing together. I want I want us to jump in with both feet. I know we don't see eye to eye on certain things yet. That'll come later. But I just want to know that you and I are together on one. Even if you got a budget for six months for the lease payment. Yes. Yes. It all goes on budget. You're all working together on the same team. Because that's the first thing. You can't convince somebody to do what you want to do if you haven't fully committed. If you won't do it. Yeah. Yeah. So the first step is we're committing that we are sharing our money. And let it marinate for a minute. Like, let it breathe. You don't have to, you know, have this conversation tonight. And then by Sunday, you're already talking about paying off the debt. Right. Get the money together. Let it breathe for a moment. And then while you're while you're continuing to learn, because you're you're new to this, too, then we can start having conversations about, OK, now that we see what our budget looks like, here's some of the things that I'm noticing with our budget. I've got a lot of debt and it is like eating up the majority of our margin. And you've got a lease. I've noticed that's, you know, that's something that I'm taking note of. Right. And you can start to say things that you're just noticing and you can start to share things about how you're feeling. And again, let this unroll. It's OK that this takes a little bit of time. I don't think, John, I've ever had a financial conversation with Sam where we have opposing views or differing views that happens in one conversation. Never. Yeah, never. It doesn't happen. So take that out of your expectation because not only is this a delicate conversation, but you're newlyweds, right? And you just both found out you're having a baby, right? Yeah. You're a new person of faith. All this is new, right? So you think of this word in your head, practice. You've never done any of this stuff before. You're going to practice. Just like if you never shot a free throw before, You're going to get up there and look silly for the first few times, and you're going to keep shooting and shooting, and you're going to get better and better at it. That's what we're doing here. We're practicing. We're practicing this conversation. We're practicing combining our lives together. We're practicing combining our money together. We're practicing, hey, how much are we going to eat for groceries this month? We're practicing all these things. And you have two – and John, you jump in any time. In my mind, you have two frameworks of conversation only. It's here's how I feel. And here's I've just been thinking about the future. Wouldn't it be cool if. And so you're just painting. You're painting cool visions of the future that you see. Man, I just I can't keep thinking about like wouldn't I just keep thinking about what it would feel if I didn't have debt. And if we didn't have debt and I was actually thinking about that and that would feel amazing. Right. So all you're sharing is your feelings and your in your vision. Nothing that she has to do. Nothing that she has to change. It's just you talking about you. Bring it back to your childhood. I grew up in a house where my old man was always stressed about money. And I have a dream for our kid to never know that kind of stress. Yeah. If our kid makes the basketball team, I want to be able to get him the best shoes and not even think about it. Yes. Right? And so what you're doing is you're painting a picture. You're not lecturing with numbers. You get what we're saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's very true for me, too, in my past. It was for most of us. And you inviting her out for a half-day dreaming retreat on, hey, we're having a baby. Both of us come from this background, and she comes from that background. What do we envision us wanting our house to feel like when our daughter or our son comes home and they're 12? What do we want the house to feel like? Right. And we get to construct that. We get to build that up, right? And often, not always, but often, oh, dude, I care less about my car. I want my house to feel like that one day. Yeah. Right? And so, again, it sounds counterintuitive to put the money aside for a second, but let's dream and get a crystal clear picture of what our vision for our life wants to look like and feel like. And then it's just a matter of reverse engineering it, and let's just build that thing out. Yeah, and Dean, I'm going to send you a copy of my book, What No One Tells You About Money, because it does a good job of, you know, when you're dealing with a framework like the baby steps, it shows how some people feel versus how other people feel. And I think it'll really help you get an insight as to the way she might be feeling, and it'll help you pinpoint how you might be feeling. And I think that's just really going to be good for you. Now, obviously, when it comes to the debt, when the time comes, when she's ready, when you're ready, yeah, I'm going to recommend the baby steps all the way. And we're going to make sure you're set up with every dollar. That's our wedding gift to you. We'll make sure you have every dollar. We'll make sure you have my book. We'll also give you Dave's book, The Total Money Makeover. We're just going to load you up because I want you learning and learning and learning. And I want what I want is that every time she looks at you, you've got a piece of our material in your hand or in your face. And she's like, dang, this guy is like every time I look at him, he's got his face planted in Ramsey. And you can look at her if she rolls her eyes at you, whatever, and say, honey, I'm in this with you for the long haul. And I'm going to change my family tree. I'm going to make sure that you guys are doing well. I'm going to make sure we're successful. We got you, man. And, hey, if it comes down to it, just tell her two goofballs on the radio gave you a year of the best budgeting app on the planet, every dollar. And invite her to use it with you because it was free. Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You work way too hard to be broke and feel broke, and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the Every Dollar Budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth. Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you. You're ready to make change happen. Starting now. Go download EveryDollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today. Today's scripture is Proverbs 16.24. Gracious words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones. Elizabeth Elliott says, Lord, deliver me from the urge to open my mouth when I should shut it. Oh, man, I need to get that tattooed on my forearm. I know that's right. That's a good one right there. Let's go out to Grand Rapids, Michigan and talk to Emma. Hey, Emma, what's going on? Hi, how are you? We're doing great. How are you? I'm pretty good. I have a question. My husband and I are on our debt snowball, so we're on baby step two. and my husband has irregular work. So he is a flat rate motorcycle mechanic. So most of his money is made March, well, more like April through September. And then we take a big pay cut. So we looked at what the minimum is to live during the winter. And we kind of estimated that we need about $700 a month during the busy season to put into a sinking fund so that we would be good for the winter. But we were looking at the minimums. If we pay off what we think we're going to pay off in debt by September, then we wouldn't need any additional money because all of those minimums would be gone. That's great. So yeah, so we're wondering, do we just make the sinking fund? And then if October comes and we don't need it, we just throw that to debt? Or do we hold it just in case through the winter since there's no way to make really extra money for him? Why is there no – I believe that there is a way that either of you can make $700 extra a month. Yeah, teach me about flat rate motorcycle mechanic. What does that mean? I never heard that. So it's a form of commission. And so essentially, like, if you are billing, you know, let's say the customer is billed 10 hours for a job. If you can do the job in five hours, you still get paid 10 hours worth of work. So you can essentially do 90 hours of work in a 40-hour work week. Okay. But there are no motorcycles being ridden, really, in Michigan. Oh, okay. Gotcha. So it's kind of like you're farmers. Yeah. So it's not like you can just magically make extra motorcycles come in. But he could go – He still has to be there. Could he go work at a mechanic shop working on cars? No, they're not the same, and he has to be at the motorcycle shop. Right. But I'm thinking – okay, you're saying that $700 is the deficit monthly. I just believe that. In the winter. Right. And I'm thinking of, I don't know, teachers or pastors or people who kind of it's like this is my main job, but I also need a side gig. $700 is not a scary number to go out and make for a month. And so I'm wondering, rather than you guys having to be like squirrels and it being at a detriment to your baby step two, I just feel like you've got time between now and September to say, let's pinpoint work that we do in the winter months on top of what's already there for us to pull in $700. And I just think that that's a great practice anyway. You're talking $2,800, right? I guess the Michigan winter is nine months long, right? How long are you talking? It's about six months. Okay, so you need $3,600, right? Yeah. Or $4,200. What do you do? Me? Yeah. Ministry work. Okay. So I got to believe. And I have two side hustles already. Okay. I'm capped out, and we have four kids. Okay. So that's kind of what's making me think that there's more to this because side hustles are there for, like, sprints. I wouldn't want this to be something that's – I want you guys to be able to lock in and have this money without having to – does that make sense? I don't want it to be a detriment to your baby step two. If you're a farmer, you work all year and you get paid in one or two big chunks, right? And so you have to budget those two big chunks as though it's spread out over the year. And so I'm with Jade. Like I would love to see y'all be able to say, okay, we need $4,200 extra dollars over the course of a year. Yes. Can we scratch and claw and figure that out? If you're telling us, no, there's 0% chance. We're scratching and clawing to get to we only need $4,200 left. It's very tight. It's a matter of budgeting $700 in the good months and putting it into a sinking fund of $4,200, and we're going to withdraw from it for six months. But we wouldn't need that if we do pay off the stuff we were planning on paying off. We just wouldn't be putting anything toward the snowball in those months. That's kind of why I'm saying what I'm saying, which is why delay your snowball payoff If you can commit to by September, we're going to be debt free. But we also know that we might not have enough money. So during that next sprint, we can come up with ways to make an extra step if we need it. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Because I hadn't thought about that. If you continue to aggressively do your snowball, you're not setting aside the seven hundred dollars by September. You're debt free, right? No, we would just have a – we're looking at 24 months before we're that free. Oh, okay. So then for two years, for two years, you have to fill the $700 gap, right? Well, no, we would just – so if we were to take off, we have six things we're thinking we're going to have paid off by September. Those minimums would be gone, and two of them are car payments, so it's quite a lot of $900 a month. I think that's even more fuel in my mind to keep writing this out. Because, again, if you pay off those few and you get those minimums back, great. But if you can keep your foot on the gas and you can say, hey, let's pick up whatever work we can until all of the debt is completely gone, I mean, I would tell anybody to do that. Okay. And then once the two years is over, all the debt is gone, then you can do what John said, which is, yes, now we take our lump sum of money and we spread it evenly over the 12 months and we're good to go. Are you worried that you're going to pay this debt off and suddenly you're going to have needed that some cash? Yeah, because we're just still trying to figure out the budgeting. And so the concern is there's no way for him to build the extra money. So that's the concern is that it's kind of an unknown chartered territory. Now, I do feel like for irregular incomes, I'm thinking of people like realtors where it's just like, yeah, I don't know, month to month. It's great to it's always good to be to have a month's worth of expenses just sitting in your account. So essentially, you're always a month ahead. In your case, that might benefit you guys. You might feel a lot better to just always have that money there, because if you don't know necessarily what's coming in month to month, then that's a great practice to have. Right. And I would certainly do that because in that case, yeah, you're just like any other volatile, you know, kind of irregular person. And it's like, if I don't know that I'm going to make my whole month, I want to know that the month is there. And I would do that. But beyond that, I would make sure my goal would be to not have to touch that money if that were the case. OK, yeah, we we are lucky because we do know a minimum of what he's going to make. So we have that figured out. He makes a bare minimum just for being there. And is that enough to cover? It's it's not. That's why it's seven hundred dollars short. But that's OK. We don't have these payments, but if we pay the two cars off, that's $900 right there that's gone. Done. Okay, so tell me about a good month. What happens, you know, obviously there's, what's a good month look like? How much over does he go? Yeah. Over what he regulates, like what the winter months are? Sometimes about $8,000. Oh. So I feel like, I feel like there's way more money on the table here. Yes. So you're telling me on the months where he goes like crazily over, that doesn't give you the $3,600 that you need? It does, but we've been putting it toward the debt right now. But I mean, and then some. And then some, yes. So we've been putting it toward debt. So that's why all of it's going toward debt minus that $700 right now. Okay. Yeah, I mean, my advice doesn't change, but I think there's more money here than meets the eye. Yeah. How long do you pay these cars off? Well, we just paid one off today. Congratulations. Thank you. And then the next one will be paid off in two weeks. That's exciting. Emma, why are you calling us? Because I'm not sure if – because it says the irregular income thing. So I got kind of hung up on that. Well, you don't have an irregular income. You have a regular income. Okay. It's just – it fluctuates significantly. But the gross total is the same annually. Yes. Like you don't get paid every two weeks or every month, but you get paid a few times a year. It gets paid every other week, but it can range by $30,000 a year. But you know that range based on the time of month, right? Yes. Okay. All right. Well, that's it for the Ramsey Show. Jade? Yes. Thanks for letting me sit in your shadow today. remember there's only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus