Tisha Campbell: Living Life Freely Without Your Mask

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Dance with the change, dance with the breakdowns. The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves. So I'm like delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm still waiting for that to come. I have hope. Yeah. that somebody will love me past Gina. So I'm open. You feel like that got in the way. Gina got in the way. I don't think Gina itself got in the way. Their perception of you. I think my perception of myself may have gotten in the way. Thanks for watching, guys. Today's episode is brought to you by Boost Mobile. For over 40 years, today's guest has been a true multi-hyphenate in film, television, from early roles in Little Shop of Horrors and Spike Lee's School Days to her iconic run as Gina on Martin, one of the highest rated sitcoms of the whole 1990s. Her career and her characters are still quoted, clipped, and trending decades later. She now leads in this new movie, Be Happy, a Mary J. Blige production on Lifetime. She's back to stand-up comedy. Yes. She's a legend and a boss. Welcome Tisha Campbell to IRL. I'm excited to be here, boo. I just love you. I love you too. I said this to you when you walked in, I was like, if you can't have a good time with Tisha Campbell, you are the problem. You are the problem. Because every time I have ever been in your presence, we have good times. And the energy, your energy is never, it's always good. Thank you. I'll tell my mama you said so. She did good. Is your energy always good or it's just when I see you? No. Hell no. No. I only show that part to the closest people to me. But for the most part, I like a dark side. You know, not really a dark side, but I wear a mask so much. I've been trained to wear a mask so much. And when I say mask, I'm talking about if you think of the drama and comedy mask, I'm always wearing the smile because, you know, when I leave my house, if I leave my gate, I'm at work. Like people are going to take pictures, want to talk to me. So as soon as I leave out my house, I'm at work. So I'm always here. And it's just really interesting that nowadays it's a little harder for me to wear the mask. It was a good friend named AJ Johnson, who I did house party with. Love AJ. AJ's super brilliant. She was one of the people who told me to unmask, take my mask off because I'm always I was always like this and um I'm just learning AJ's like a life coach she is she's an actress and a life coach she actually went to school to Spellman she I think she made it she wanted to be a medical doctor but you know made that turn anyway she was the one that took the mask off is that the first person who ever said that first person who ever said that to me it was 2016 Easter were you offended no no no I was begging her because she was life coaching a bunch of people that day. And it was an Easter party that I was having at my house. And I was like, I'm next. Because she would play this game, salt or pepper, mom or dad, you know, and in between, she would read you for filth, right? I was like, I'm next, I'm next. And she was like, ah. So then she told me the truth. She was like, take the mask off. And it was crazy because it literally, figuratively, felt like everything just shattered onto the ground. And I saw all of these people that was happened to be in my house that day. A lot of them, I didn't even know. And I was like, you know, when, when, with the wizard of Oz, when they turn into color, when the black and white turns out, that's what it was like. I opened my eyes and I was like, oh, everybody's not nice because I'm a type of person that believes in a good man first. Always have been. And, um, but what that does is it doesn't leave room for discernment. And so at that moment, my eyes opened. I was awake and I couldn't put the mask back on. It was a little harder to do, even if I'm doing it for the betterment of everybody else. All she said was take off the mask. That's what she said. But what did that mean to you? Like, what did you hear when she said that? wake up you don't have to be on for everybody you have to put yourself first and that's something that I was not used to doing I always put everybody else since I was a little kid you had said earlier in the intro that um I've been in this business for 40 years I was actually I've actually been in this business for 50 years I started when I was three wow 50 something years, 54 years. And I started when I was three. And since I was three years old, well, since I was five years old, I've been paying bills. I've been taking care of my family. I knew that I had this gift that God had given me. I also was very aware and conscious as a child of how incredibly poor we really were. I mean, we was eating mayonnaise sandwiches for breakfast, lunch, and dinner sometimes, right? I grew up in Newark, New Jersey, in the projects. Not the Newark now. Yeah, no, not because Newark is fly right now. But Newark back in the day. But I was really very conscious and I wanted to help my family. And so this became how I could help them best with along with, you know, singing and acting and whatever I was doing to help get us out of our circumstances. so it meant that i couldn't do i couldn't wear this mask anymore i had to be true to myself if i'm sad be sad if um i'm angry be angry um i can still be kind uh but i had to take it off and this was at a big age right you said this is like 10 years ago in six 2016 is when it happened Yeah, so 10 years ago. So you're in your 40s. Well, at first I got depressed because I didn't know how I was going to take the mask off. How am I going to do that when so many people are counting on me to be this girl? And it's interesting because that's kind of what this movie is about. And I was mad because I was like, who is this Cameron J. Ross writer all up in my business? Who is this? Seeing me in real life. Right, right, right. And it really is about, you know, when you get, to a certain age, a grown ass woman, you start to realize that what you may have missed because you sacrificed so much for others. And that's where I was. And that's where this character is too. Nice transition, Tisha. I know. That was crazy. That segway is like top tier. I didn't know I did that, y'all. But it really is true. And that's why I wanted to do this film. because it was really touching something right here and here in my soul. I love the trailer. I do want to talk about the film because I have a lot of questions about that. And also Mary is my sister. I love the whole thing. We love Mary J. Vash. Yes. And it looks so delicious and fun. I can't wait to see it. But I do want to stay in that moment for a second because she tells you take off the mask and you look around and you see the cracks in everybody. Because before what? You was looking at everybody with rose-colored glasses? I was. Uh-huh. That must have been very tricky in relationships. It was depressing when I first realized what I had been kind of doing to myself. But what does that mean? Like, in real life, like, what does that look like? So you have a friend or a partner and... So I'm everything to everybody, including especially victims. So I would take them on. I would help them. But I was really everything to everybody. I was the cook. I was the chauffeur. I was the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker. I was everything to everyone. And I wasn't, my well was dry and I had nothing else to give, even though I was running on empty. I was running on fumes. And you got to combine that with the fact that I have a child on the spectrum. So I'm running around here, whether I'm, you know, at work trying to be there for my, you know, my coworkers, then I come home trying to be the best wife. And then there's on top of that, I got to take my kid to his different therapies. I have to negotiate with these people. Sometimes you don't get therapists right away. You have to, you know, deal with the meltdowns of autism. You have to deal with all of these things. And I was running around being again, being everything for everybody but me. And this girl, I feel you. So what it looked like after she told me to take the mask off and get back to that was depression, because I didn't think that I could do it. I didn't think I could put myself first. And so I just started sleeping a lot. I didn't know that's what depression was, but I just couldn't stay awake. Like three o'clock in the morning, three o'clock in the afternoon. It didn't matter. I would just pass out. I hear that a lot when people talk about depression, that it shows up that way. Just wanting to be in the bed. Yeah. Like anywhere at a restaurant. And you couldn't even know, and you didn't know why. I didn't know why. And then things changed and I started to accept it that I couldn't operate like this. no more so that is a major ass life shift it is i hope somebody watching that feels that deeply because it's not a small thing you're talking about right here it's like a major thing and i think a lot of women a lot of women will understand that in particular yeah always give to everybody but ourselves yeah we're always and you know there's something lovely about that and i and it's beautiful it is beautiful as long but i i think the piece that women miss is that you can be a giver you could be empathetic you could see people through roles you could see the best in people even when they don't see it themselves but if you don't have boundaries girl if you don't have boundaries if you don't have boundaries and you don't cherish yourself like if you're that good of a human yeah you better cherish the fuck out of yourself that that part it was my kids that taught me boundaries believe it or not I bet I bet my kids taught me boundaries my kids because okay I grew up a baby boomer raised me right so you know when you're raised by baby boomers blood is thicker than water family first all of those things not the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb that's the real quote but we were brought up blood is thicker than water. And so my kids, both of them had a problem with a family member. And I was like, oh, you guys, you got to fix it. They're a family. You got to fix it. And they're like, yeah, you throwing us into trauma. We don't want to do that. So here's what we're going to do. They were like, mom, just kind of stay out of it. We'll fix it on our own time if we decide to fix it at all. And I realized I really am pushing them into trauma. That's not cool. And so I've learned to just step back and adjust for myself even when my kids taught me that because that's all I know man that's so good Tisha it's fact that your kids how old were they when they um I believe one was 20 so and the other he's eight years they were grown they were grown he's eight years younger but they were old enough to know that no you you gotta stop yeah and they understood who i am as a person so you've had a pretty significant shift in your life in the past 10 years i really have good for you it is the most amazing time i really you have to really joy is a verb that's what my therapist said and you gotta work on joy you gotta make a decision to work on joy and that's why i am in my life right now you know i'm working i'm working towards it every single day. And that's what makes me happy. Yeah. I think sometimes we think if we don't put ourselves first, if we don't put other people first, like we're not a good person. That part. Like you could do both. Actually, you actually could. You could be an amazing human being. It doesn't mean you're selfish. It means you're self-ful. Yeah. And that's okay. Yeah. It's actually smarter. It's smart. It's a better way to live. Absolutely. Hey guys, Boost Mobile is proving that you do not have to overpay for great wireless. unlock the savings with the $25 a month forever unlimited plan. It's a permanent price with no contracts and no price hikes. So you can keep your phone, your number, and you can save up to $600 a year compared to other major carriers. So stop overpaying and switch to a fair price at boostmobile.com and do it today. Based on average annual single line payment of AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile customers compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile unlimited plan as of January, 2026. For full offer details, visit boostmobile.com. In the category of like showing up for people, you have come up multiple times on this podcast. Really? First of all, we just had Gabrielle Union on who told us that you paid for her therapy as a young woman in this business. I did. And I was like, well, why did she do that? And she said, I don't know. I think she just knew I needed it and I couldn't afford it. Well, let me just say this. It was, I saw the potential in Gab. She was working her butt off, But I knew she was going to be even bigger than what we were witnessing at that moment. And so I wanted her to have support because this business can be so crazy. And so you didn't even know the history of what she had been through. No, I she looked fine to me. It wasn't like I saw something wrong. It's just that I wanted her to be able to navigate this business. you're not going to be unscathed, but at least you could have some type of support. And so I paid for like 10 sessions, 10 of her first sessions. I said, I really want you to see this therapist and you mean a lot. You're going to be big. What did you see in her? Why did you know that? I could tell. First of all, if I'm walking down the street, I could tell an artist from a mile away. Really? Yeah. How? It's a feeling. It's a feeling. I can see an artist right away and then I can also, you can see an it factor. Anybody can see an it factor. And she had it. She had that it factor, that X factor. And I knew she was going to be huge. I think it's God. God tells me who's going to be like that. And you wanted to help her. Yeah. I feel like And I could see that I just think that she needed to be supported. And I like to support my sisters. I know. And then we had Tasha Smith on. Really? Tasha Smith said you were one of the first people that made her believe that she could do this. Because you were one of the first examples. And I guess she met you in Camden, New Jersey. Yeah, when her and her sister were 15. Yeah. And so she really credits you for making her feel like this career would be possible. Well you know a lot of times when I see people I say things like you know you not supposed to be here right You know that you are going to be in a different place You know you not supposed to stay where you are You could feel it in your soul I see it So I need for you to see it And I need for you to do something about it I do that with a lot of people You do You just see it and you offer it I do I do. Who did that for you? I think it was like a family member or something, maybe. I grew up. Okay. So my mom and her sisters were gospel singers called the Shockley Singers. And they used to sing background for Mahalia Jackson. Woo! Yeah. And then my dad was in a group and that's how they met. So music and artistry has always been around me. And so I could tell who's who. But it's more of a spiritual thing. It's not an artist thing. Like, oh, she could probably sing. Like, she looked like she got the breast to like, the big old breast to like really blow. No, it's not the chest. It's a spiritual thing. So I can kind of tell when I see them. So when did comedy come into it? When did you think? So I couldn't get arrested doing comedy. I started out as a dramatic actress doing a lot of theater. And if you wanted somebody to cry on cue, Tisha was your girl. So I would always get hired for that kind of stuff. And as a matter of fact. You were made to do this Lifetime movie that you're in, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm going to get to that too. But when I was younger, I remember about 18 years old, I auditioned for a sitcom. And so the casting director goes, you need sitcom classes. And I was like, oh, OK, where do you get those? She was like, there aren't any. So I had to figure out what comedy was. So I would just go to the comedy store by myself or the comedy act theater, the laugh factory. and I would just sit in the back with the comedians to try to figure out what is comedy because they were giving all the men these deals in the 90s. Everybody had a deal. Robert Townsend, Sinbad, Martin, everybody, right? So I was like, I got to jump on somebody's show. I got to work. So I would sit in the back and the ones that were really good were the ones who told their real life story. And I was like, oh, there's a thin line between drama and comedy. All I got to do is support and ground it and I can do it. So that's how I started out doing comedy. Wow. And then did you get up there? No. I was too afraid to go up because back then, the climate of the stand-ups, and I'm saying this from people that were in the 90s, they weren't collaborative or it was very competitive. It was brutal. It was brutal. It was brutal. They were brutal to one another. So I never did it. But I worked with so many standup comedians in the scripted world that they kept telling me, you really are good at telling stories. You've got to get up there. You've got to try it. You're really funny. You're really funny. But I would never. and it just so happened our friend our good our good friend d nice d nice d right d nice had a residency at the kennedy center that's what i call it that was like a couple years ago yeah yeah yeah like two years only two years ago years ago right and he had a residency i happened to be coming to support him his host fell out and he was like tish can you bring people up and i'm telling you he had the best of the creme de la creme he had sherry shepherd Michael Che Chris Spencer Zaynab he had great people oh Gina Ryashire great comedians big comedians and I was like sure I can I can bring them yeah I can host I can bring them up he was like yeah do 15 minutes before I was like huh who you talking to right so did he just assume no you know what it was Beck you know Rebecca of course yes she works with D-Nice yes we love Beck by the way we do love a Beck we love you Beck Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius, like are misunderstood. A sun and Venus and Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms and different houses and different places, but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of This Is Wrong. Listen to Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search for it. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said, she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I have done nothing except get pregnant by the f***ing bachelor! Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the A-Building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. have both been assassinated, and Black America is at a breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia, at Martin's alma mater, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in Black history, Martin Luther King Sr. and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution, I mean, people would die. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should. And it will blow your mind. Listen to The A-Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wait, so did they just assume that you had done stand-up? No, they didn't. And they were like, she was like, oh, Chris, Chris, Chris Spencer will help you. And I was like, Chris ain't going to help shit. He got ADD, right? Chris ain't going to do nothing, right? So I called Chris and Chris says, ah, just tell a story. I said, I knew your ass wasn't going to help you. so but I also had taken classes with Chris a long time ago we took writing classes me him and Tashina and so I know how he operates right they were terrible in that class too I was the class um victim I was a victim but no he was the class class so anyway I know how he operates so I said I got 15 minutes before I go on to ask him questions so I did that and he gave me you know really great advice and I went up there by the time I got off there was an agent in the in the audience and she started representing me and that was it wow I started going on the road with Finesse Mitchell and you've been doing stand-up comedy ever since I've been doing stand-up comedy ever since and the first time mind you I ever went up there at the Kennedy Center it was 4,000 people how many 4,000 oh my god and did you tell jokes are you telling jokes yeah but you're also Tisha Campbell. Well, that's different though. This is a completely different genre. It's the scariest thing I've ever done in my life because you're telling your real life stories. You are trying to get people to laugh at your pain. But it's addictive and I get to not have a screen between me and people anymore. They get to know me for me, not a character of me. Did you think for a second to not do it out of fear? Yes. I think about that every single time I go up. Fear could stop you if you let it. If you let it. But I wouldn't. Again, I'm at a certain age where I'm like, I'm going to try and do everything I've ever wanted to do. That's why I love this story. It's number one. It's like this just happened two years ago. Yeah, it was just. You already have all your credits. I was 54 years old. On your resume. And you have done what you have done. And then I want this. you're going to start something new that's terrifying and say yes yeah i'm gonna go do that lunel told me why are you getting into this misogynistic business i was like there's something so beautiful about this genre this art form and i've always respected it and i wanted the people that i worked with um to know that i took it seriously and that i'm really doing the work yeah so love that so how does it feel when you're up there like when they laugh when engaging when it hits when it hits it feels like i'm taking their pain away for just a half hour like what about when a joke doesn't hit when a joke doesn't hit you just keep it moving it actually motivates me to get up there even more to figure it out yeah to unlock yeah it hurts but it but it's like oh i gotta get back up yeah that's how i feel about golf tisha really you golf like that I golf started golfing maybe uh three four years ago yeah and I love it so much I'm terrible it's really hard yeah because you get better and you get worse mess it up I do it in front of people I go to these celebrity tournaments and I play in front of people and I'm like oh god but I don't care I like it anyway and I just do it anyway it's not the feeling it's not the same thing but it's the idea of finding new things at whatever age you're at whatever success level, whatever marital state. It doesn't stop. Like you always should be trying to find things that, I don't know, just new, fresh. That's right. Fun. Keep you alive. Keep exploring. Keep finding the joy. Yeah. I want to see you do stand up so bad now. Oh, I want you to come. I totally want to come. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I'm in your area, I'll hit you up. So the movie that I saw the trailer today, it looks so good. Thank you. I mean, number one, because you just, when we see you on camera, it automatically elevates the feeling. It's just like we know... You're going to get something out of it. I know it's going to feel good. It's going to be funny. I don't know. Your presence just lends something elevated to anything, I think. This was an interesting project to take on. And I'm really not sure. I think it was a combination of a couple of things. But it was Mary, of course. And then there was Gabby Sidibe, who directed the film. And I worked with her before doing a pilot of hers. And she saw my work where it was not just comedy. She knew that I could ground a scene and that I was still a drama, that I could do drama, rather. and so I knew that she was directing and I wanted to do well for her because you're such a girl's girl I think I am yeah but she's a really good person but even on top of her being a great actress and a good person she's a fucking excellent director I will work with her again and again her she's very clear about what she wants her storytelling is good she communicates very well and I wanted to make her proud. I put, and she sent me a message. I literally cried because she was like, you put your whole heart into this. You put your whole heart into this. Everything that you may have been through in, I see it on screen and I just appreciate it. She said even Lifetime appreciates it. They really liked the film. So I'm happy about that. I'm so excited. I can't wait to, so I need to see you in the film. Yeah. And I need to see some standup. It comes like, yes, yes. I need all those things. All the things. What about like, so you must have learned so much in the past couple of years of having this kind of transition. Yeah. So people, we hear people say that even on this pod, for some reason, it comes up a lot. Like, I'm in my, I don't care season. I'm in my, we all say that. Yeah. But what is the actual like execution of that look like? Like, what are the things that you have to do to remind you? Like for me, I will tell you, I have to literally actually remind myself that what feels good for me is okay. I don't have to explain anything. Feel bad about it. I don't have to. It's almost like you have to massage your muscle memory to get you thinking. To remember who you are. To get you thinking a certain way. It has to become a habit. Yeah, yeah. It's okay. For me, it's therapy. I have been super committed to unpacking baggage and understanding myself a little bit more where I am today. Aligning that nervous system. I've been working so hard in therapy and I can see the difference in myself. surrounding myself. The other thing is I surround myself with a limited amount of people with whom I can trust. And then I'm a writer. I write. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet, Florida's sports book. Listen, even if you're not the biggest football fan in the world, you are still tuning in and maybe you want to get in on the action too. I know I do. If you haven't signed up with Hard Rock Bet yet there's never been a better time. New signups can double their winnings on their first 10 bets, maximum 50 bucks. Plus you won't want to miss Hard Rock Bet's $7 million big game bonus party. Place a $10 big game parlay and you'll get a share of 7 million in bonus bets, win or lose. Every parlay counts. And the more you place, the bigger your share. So if you're in Florida or New Jersey, the big game energy doesn't have to just live on the app. You can head to Hard Rock Casino for drawings, giveaways, and all the excitement leading up to the kickoff. Or you could just go on the app. That's Hard Rock Bet. Download the Hard Rock Bet app and make your first deposit today. What about being a mother? Yes. And you mentioned, you know, having a child. On the spectrum. On the spectrum. Yeah. I know. You always want to be very careful about the language. Because it changes. It changes. Yeah. Well, enlighten us. Like, what are the wrong words? What are the right words? What did you have to learn about that? They no longer use words like Asperger's. Okay. Because that was a... Or when you look at the spectrum, there's no more low on the spectrum or higher up on the spectrum. Just on the spectrum. You're on the spectrum and then there are levels now. So there's level one, level two, and level three. Level one is where it doesn't affect them living independently. Level two is where they might need a little bit more support. Level three is where they need a whole bunch of support to function. And your child was on what level? I think he started out around, he was nonverbal until he was like eight. So I would say level two and a half. And now? Level two. He's actually one and a half. I think he's one and a half. Because he can, one of my goals was to get him as independent of me as possible. So this boy is in college. He keeps two jobs in his pocket because he don't ever want to ask me for cash or anything. He prides himself on being the man of the house. Prides himself on protecting me. And he's just an amazing human being. So I would say one and a half. Yeah Wow Yeah Yeah When I think about my kids it just makes me smile so hard They incredible people Like even my youngest my youngest the teachers at the school always call me about him And they're like, he's the kindest child I've ever taught. I get emails like that all the time. Like, I wish I had a dozen Ezekiels in my class. So you did good as a mom. I think we're doing good. You did good. Yeah. But I'm sure there were challenges in that. Yes, of course you love your kid and of course you did great. But like. In the beginning, it was very challenging. Yeah. It was very challenging. What do people not know about that? About being a mom and the challenges of raising? I think what most people don't know is that when I got the diagnosis, I was on the set of My Wife and Kids. Wow. And I pride myself on being the type of person who doesn't bring their problems to work. And plus, Damon created such a family-oriented, loving atmosphere on that set. And I felt like I owed it to him to make sure that it stayed that way. So far be it for me to bring my ish. Make it heavy. To work. Yeah. So, yeah. Does he know that you did that? No. I think this is my first time talking about it, actually. Um, but I, I adore him and his family so, so much. Um, he even, he even put a nursery in my dress room so that I could bring my baby to work. Like he was always so supportive. When I first got the job on wife and kids, he was like, Hey, I think we're going to be here for a good five years. It's time for, you can get pregnant if you want to, cause we're going to be here. And so he didn't have to tell me twice. I got pregnant with Zen right away and had him the second season. Wow. And so you would never bring anything to set? No, I still don't do that. It's how we were trained in this business. I grew up in the theater. No wonder you learned to wear a mask, baby. Yeah, because in the business, all you would hear was, one, you're only as good as your last job and you will be replaced by your understudy. Like, who cares? Yeah. You know? Yeah. So you come to work and you do your best and you consider the people around you. But I always tried to make sure I had a smile on my face because I really wanted to support the atmosphere that he. So you're going to work on set and it's fun and jolly. You just, your child just gets diagnosed and you're young, right? You're 33. 30s, yeah. 33. You're on set, young mother. And so then how do you manage that when you go home? I mean. Oh, I was constantly running, running, running, running, running, running. So Zen was on set. Sometimes therapists would come to my dressing room or I was running around trying to find therapy because one of the major problems that most caretakers or parents run into is the fact that time is not on your side. You need to get that early intervention in. But especially in 2001, 2002, when he got the diagnosis, there wasn't a lot of resources. There weren't a lot of people that I could go to. And even if you did call like a behavioral therapist or speech therapist or an occupational therapist, you were going to be on a waiting list just to get a call back to make an appointment. All of that said, I was literally running around and I'm very aggressive when it comes to my kids. I'm very, very, very, very, very aggressive. People were like, how you get an appointment so fast? Because even though I'm on this waiting list, I'm still going to call you every single day and fuck you. And they got tired of my ass and they gave me an an appointment oh wow that's how i had to operate that's how i had to work advocating for your son it's my child yeah wow did i answer your question i think so okay i mean i was just trying to understand the every day of that like yeah as a woman young woman you know yeah yeah yeah sherry was great sherry shared we had sherry on the show yeah uh i don't know many months ago um but i understood a lot about you know some of her fears of raising a child and a black child yeah a black child also what that how challenge you know she was afraid to let him out in the street she struggled with his independence um you know this is not a small thing we're like oh yes my child was on the and i showed up and i worked and i was but like that's a heavy burden for a mother to to carry absolutely and and you know i remember growing up in Newark right in the 70s 80s and one of the things my mother was really really fearful of when my brothers because i have three brothers um by my mom and dad um when they would go out of the house and leave the house she was deathly afraid of whatever the gang members that lived in that area of them getting, you know, attacked by that or police, you know, and just as black men. But I have a black child on a spectrum. And when you have a black child that's on a spectrum, sometimes they might have tics and quirks or they can't keep their body still. And that was one of my biggest fears that, you know, law enforcement wouldn't, they're not, Back then, they weren't educated or trained in this type of diversity or what autism looks like. So his movements or the way that he might, you know, move his body, put his hands behind his back. When he's nervous, he puts his hands behind his back. I was afraid that they would mistake it for noncompliance or there was a gun in his back, you know, behind him or something. And so I have to think about that all the time until we would practice with Sin to keep his body straight just in case he was approached by an officer I know, right? That breaks my heart for him. Yeah. For any kid who, I mean, for, you know, the fact that kids have to do that. Absolutely. It's heartbreaking. The fact that a mother has to train their kid to, you know, make sure you get a receipt in a bag when you leave. I don't care if it's a piece of gum, get a bag and a receipt before you. So when you walk out, nobody assumes you're stealing. Those are things that you have to teach your. I never taught my son that. But see, that's the thing. You got to teach Latino and black kids have to know these kind of things. Yeah. Because people automatically assume the worst of them. Get a receipt in that bag. Do you have a good support system or did you then? Because now I feel like there are so many women. And I had a very, I had a very limited. There was AJ, Tashina, my friend from high school, Sahira. Not a lot. The ones that I could really rely on. Rely on. And a girl named Don, Danielle that I met in Los Angeles. Wow. That's small. Very small. They were all moms. They kind of understood. and but they gave me the support I needed to get me through this diagnosis yeah there might have been one more but yeah oh Holly Robinson Pete Holly Robinson Pete really helped me yeah through all of this yeah because she's navigated those waters she did yeah yeah and as me she was an early advocate she was she was the earliest advocate that I knew so she was the first person I called and then there was also Lorna Kyle who is Cedric, the entertainer's wife. So she, during that time, they were all very, very supportive and kind of helped me. Holly the most, because she understood it in a different way. But you mentioned Sherry and Sherry and I have become sisters in this, in this, in the autism community and we've been sisters in you know just helping one another and supporting one another and pushing one another and we always call each other the queens of pivot i love a good pivot yes i love a good pivot we do where are you with love in your life now what what you said tisha that was a very direct question i didn't hear you Where are you with love? What bitch? Where do you stand with it? What does it mean to you? I'm not saying who's loving on you. No, no, no. What does it mean to me? I don't know. I'm still trying to figure out the love for myself. I'm still unpacking all of that. I don't. I know that I love people. I just don't know. if I'm loved back by people. That's a really hard statement to say. Let me tell you this story. So I was doing this thing with Shirley Ralph. It was called Diva Simply Singing, right? And on the show was Brenda Russell. Remember Brenda Russell? Of course, Piano in the Dark. Piano in the Dark. She's a fantastic writer. And she was a well-known singer in the 80s? Yeah, 80s. 90s. We haven't read the dark. One of my favorite writers and singers, right? But she was doing the show with me. And she also wrote, you can reach me by trailway. Right? Get there if you can. And I asked her, I said, that song. I said, God, it's so beautiful. I don't care how you get there. Just get there if you can. And I said, who were you talking about when you wrote that song? And she says, oh, yeah, that's where people get it, you know, misconstrued. Because I wasn't talking about a person. I was talking about love itself. I've never been loved in my life. And I did like this. And then the meaning, the words started going in my head. The meaning of the words took on a different, a whole different vanneck. A whole different meaning. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level if the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. and I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are misunderstood. A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, This episode is a must listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first Bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search warrant. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said, she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I have done nothing except get pregnant by the f***ing bachelor! Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the A-Building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. have both been assassinated, and Black America is at a breaking point. Rioting and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia, at Martin's alma mater, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in Black history, Martin Luther King Sr. and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution, I mean, people would die. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should. And it will blow your mind. Listen to The A Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wow. And she was maybe 30 something, 40 years old at the most. And I was like, you've never been loved in your life. And then now I am here in this moment, kind of more understanding her words. I have loved and I put my whole heart into it. And I not only believe in the good of man, I also believed in marriage, commitment, all of the things. And I'm still waiting to be loved properly the way that I define them. Maybe that's not fair to somebody. Fuck that. It should be fair to you. but I, again, I'm such a giver. I've given, given, given, given, given, given, given. Yeah. And I'm still waiting for that to come. I have hope. Yeah. Well, that somebody will love me past Gina. So I'm open. You feel like that got in the way Gina got in the way. I don't think Gina itself got in the way. Their perception of you or. I think my perception of myself may have gotten in the way. maybe back then i was okay with crumbs i was okay with i don't know you were you were okay with you doing all the things i was okay with loving on people loving on people because i thought that was my job yeah that was what my job was from him Yeah. I feel that so deeply. I know. I've never had an interview like this, by the way. Really? Oh, thank you for trusting me. And thank you for that. Yes, I do. I do. I appreciate that. Thank you, honey. I know. We got real. It is real. It's because people, you know, people are trying to figure it out. Everybody's walking around, fronting like they got it all together. Nobody got that shit together. Nobody got that shit together. Nobody got it together. And it's interesting because I'm so much more than the characters that people have seen me play. I'm much more than the smile that I wear on my face at all times. Thank God, though. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And I'm learning. I'm peeling away the onion in therapy and in my friendships and in my now relationships, you know. I love that. Yeah. Well, that don't mean I don't have no situationships. I'm just saying. until you find that love. Hey, I ain't by myself now. You're not opposed to a good time. Listen, I'm too grown for this. What we doing? What we doing? Oh my God, Tisha. I still want love for you. If that's what you want for yourself, do you want that? I just want to know who I am completely. I want to be the best me that I could be first. I want to be able to have and work on all the baggage and unpack that before I super committed to someone so they get the best part of me and I get the best part of me out of the relationship Heard you Yeah. So good. How many times do people say damn Gina to you? Every damn day of my life. Cause like three times when you were talking today, I wanted to say damn Gina. I really wanted to. I don't mind it. But it was so real. I didn't want to, you know what I mean? You know, I told you my instinct. My son calls me that every day. I told you. He does? Every day. Oh, my God. He doesn't call me mommy. Shut up. I'm telling you, he don't call me mommy. He calls you Gina? He only calls me Gina. You know why? Because that daggone Nalawayans, Kenan's daughter, was babysitting him when he was like three years old. Right? And I never let my kids watch my work because I just wanted them to know me for mommy. I didn't let them watch my work. I didn't put them on red carpets. I wanted them to be as far away from Hollywood as possible. I did do a red carpet once because it was a Disney thing, so I could take them to a Disney movie. But other than that, no. They weren't on the red carpet when they were little on everything. And she was babysitting him one day. And I came home, and they're streaming The Martin Show. And so Zeke turns. He's three. He goes, hey, Gina. And he's been calling you Gina ever since. And I be answering because I'm tired. all ahead of time okay oh my god so they watch they watch they watch the whole five seasons oh my god and then nala goes you're welcome and i'll kill you why you got this boy so from then on he's been calling me gina oh my god i love that so i'm used to it all right we have a couple you're so good i could talk to you all day okay so our first uh our first segment is a voice note segment comes from one of our IRL listeners. Okay. It's usually a question or a comment. This one is for you. So my question would be, how do I begin to start over when I've already gone through so much turmoil, so much trauma, and life as I know it is no longer the same? How do I maneuver through? Turning 50. Like, I feel like 50 is where I should have been at my peak and I was headed there before everything else. So just looking, where do I go from here? How do I start over at 50? Wow, that's a great question. I feel like she was listening to our interview today. Right, it's crazy. What was her name? Lady T. Lady T. Okay, Lady T. So when I had to start over, I really had to... Start over from what? From like divorce. So I'm going to back up. So I've been, like I said, I was in this business since I was three years old. So I went straight from a momager and then being my manager into a marriage. And when I had to start over and when I left, I had to go from ground zero, complete zero, complete nothing. and it was scary but I kept visualizing you know what I kept visualizing what you know how a baby when it when they're first learning how to walk they get up on their feet and they kind of teeter and they do this little wobble wobble if you look at their faces there's this excitement this thrill they know they're going to fall on their little pampered butts they know they're about to fall but they embrace the fall and then they get right back up i think sometimes when we're adults we forget to enjoy and embrace the fall that everything could look like it feels devastating but it's more like a a beautiful devastation and i just kept saying things are going to get better A friend of mine named Danny, who was one of the people who really helped me through, she told me, actually, she's my writing partner and co-producer at my production company. But she kept saying, change the narrative, sis. Don't be the victim. Don't tell the story over and over again. Make new stories. It's okay to start again. It's scary. It hurts. It's complicated. but it's okay to start again. You got this. And so I had to stop singing the same song over and over and over. What was the song you were singing? Just, you know, this happened to me, that happened to me. I don't think I'm going to be able to do this because now I got... It's the same thing that goes on in your head. Yeah. You know? And I had to stop. Embrace the fall and change the narrative. What is the narrative now? Do everything you want to do that you've ever wanted to do in your life. Put yourself first, Tisha. Put yourself first. Angie. Angie. And everybody else will fall into place. If you're okay, then they'll be okay. But if you're not okay, how the hell you going to get it in? So that's where I am right now. Damn, Gina. that was so apropos that's great I felt that so deep hey guys support for this podcast is brought to you by Walden University have you ever thought to yourself what if I could go after what I actually want and I could really make a difference well you are not alone and this is exactly why I want to tell you about Walden University for over 50 years Walden has helped working adults like you get the W with the knowledge, the skills, and everything you need to build the future that you want. And you can make a difference where it matters most. If you've been waiting for the right moment, this is it. Head to waldenu.edu and take that first step. Walden University, set a course for change. Certified to operate by Shiv. Now, welcome to our IRL bowl of real questions about real life. Okay. See what you get. You can pick. All right. You can pick till you get one that speaks to you you don't have to pick your first one because we have the magic of editing i ain't got my glasses on so let's see okay i can help you if you need because i had lasik how important is money to you it's a good question money ain't important to me money ain't my god and i think that's where a lot of people get hung up in this business they make money their god they make prestige something that they need and fame fame prestige control money money was never my god so when money was gone i've been poor before i can make it again so it's never been something that was the end all be all for me it never will be my relationships are more important to me. The way I affect people is more important to me. Utilizing the gift that God gave me is more important to me. Making people forget their problems, making them cry, making them laugh, making them think, making them change their mindset is more important to me. That is what a true artist is. I'm a true artist. And this shit right here don't mean shit to me. Heard you, sis. But it's not bad when you get it. Well, there are benefits to the shit. like but if you're still you have integrity and you're a good person and you still can do what you do it's gonna come yeah you're gonna get blessed by it and you're gonna be able to take care of your family but it doesn't have to be your God yeah it never has to be your God you answered the shit out of that question damn we want another one yeah get another one get another one we in it now let's do let's do like baseball let's do three Okay, okay, okay. Let's go. Let's go. What's this one? All right. What's one thing you hope never changes about you? how loud i am i know i like it too i'm really loud but it's actually part of the mask i do enjoy it but it has been a survival technique actually so i'm actually a very shy person believe it or not nobody would believe that i would never believe it nobody But I also would believe it. Yeah. I'm actually quite shy. And I hide it with jokes and loudness. And it has always been a strategic move. And the problem is that it's effective. It's so effective. And you're so good at it. Yes. I'm so loud. You demand attention. And then when you get the people's attention, you deliver. You're funny. You have meaningful things to offer and say. it's it's it's it's the reason why i'm here like being able to do interviews like this which is like i said i don't think that i've ever had an interview like this this in depth this um just ah what's the word i'm trying to find the word thank you i feel you you know what i'm saying I think it's just honest. Honest and inviting. And I don't feel like I have to put up a guard with you. Thank you. You're very good at what you do. Thank you, sis. So I'm able to say things that most people have never heard me say before. What was the fucking question? Oh, the loudness. The loudness. So I love being that I was able to be strategic with how loud I truly am not. because I'm actually quite shy. Yes, I could see that though, but it has worked for you. But you're so self-aware now that you know that it's a tool. I know it's a tool. It's a tool in your toolbox. And plus when I was 11 and 12, when I met Tashina, well, I say 11 and 12. Tashina was 11, I was 12. She likes for me to tell people that because she wants everybody to know she's younger than me. So when I first met her on an audition and she was like, you're so shy. Why are you so shy? Speak up for yourself. I hate shy people. So she forced me out of my shyness. What a blessing. It was. And then she would take me around all the gays in the 70s. And honey, they would crack on you, honey. They would let your ass have it. So you had to get thick skin. So she was actually the blessing that helped me navigate the life. How amazing it is to have a friend that long. How old were you guys? 11 and 12. My best friend, we've been friends since we're eight years old. So I know the benefit of that. Somebody that has seen you through all the seasons. Knows you like we finish each other's sentences. Remembers things that you don't even remember. I do not play about Tashina Arnold. That's one thing I do not play about. I don't play about her. I do not play about Tashina Arnold. That's my girl. That's my friend. That's my sister. And as protective as I am of her, she's just as protective of me. Oh my God, what a blessing that the two of you had each other. Yeah. In this business because we were able to survive this business and not get caught up. We'll wait. We're going to wait for this bullshit. Right. I mean, they went crazy on you. They went crazy. They want you to get louder. Oh yeah, you want to be loud? We're going to be loud. Y'all can't. Okay. Silence. They're gone. But I was saying that I do not play about. Could you imagine like being famous, having that level of success? Yeah. The success that Martin had, that show in the 90s and what fame does to young people and Hollywood. The fact that you were able to navigate those waters. With my friends. With your friends. It was like a bubble around us. Yeah. Our friendship was a bubble and we helped each other survive through it. We helped each other navigate around it. You probably kept each other in check. kept each we the the thing about the two of us is we tell each other the truth we don't have the yes men around us we don't want it that doesn't keep you honest and we hold each other accountable and keep each other honest and we do it with so much laughter she is how I get through life she helps me laugh at everything what a blessing yeah she'll be like put an h on your on your shirt bitch and handle it like put the h on your shirt bitch and handle it okay that's that's Tashina Arnold I love that yeah I love her my final IRL question I like to ask everybody on the show do we have anything else before i do it final question i'd like to ask everybody this question okay my final question my final question yes you were so wonderful today by the way if this is a question in the bowl if god were to text you today right now yeah what would say? I don't know. I don't know what God would say to me. And y'all know what God would say to me. That's what he say. Stop being so loud. I know your tricks. That's what he would say. You know, if God texted you, stop being so loud, you would know exactly what he means. He really means, I know what you're doing, sis. I know what you're doing, daughter. You're hiding. So stop being so loud. I'm never going to stop being so loud, Lord. I'm sorry. Lord, I'm sorry. I don't know if I could do it. It's very hard for me. It's a survival technique, Lord. He made you. He knows you. It's okay. Tashina. I was about to say Tashina Arnold. I'm the other one. I'm the other one. Tashina Arnold, by the way, we need her next. Oh, yes. Because I need the flip side of this. I need the flip side of this story, of this duo. Yeah. My goal one day would be to have the two of you in the chair together. You're going to very soon. I can't say why. Project happening? We'll get both? That would be amazing. I just want to make sure there was nothing else here. I think so. That was amazing. You are brilliant. No, you got to understand, Angie, it's you. Aw. You create a safe space for people to speak. Thank you. Because we're always so guarded. But the way that you handle your guests. Thank you. It's so comforting. So we don't mind saying things that nobody has ever heard. Thank you for that, baby. Thank you, baby. Tisha Campbell, real life! in real life, too. In real life. Yo, that was beautiful. This is Tisha Campbell in real life. Hey, guys, thanks for watching. Make sure you subscribe, like, comment, and check out all of the other episodes we have on Angie Martinez's IRL podcast. On the Adventures of Curiosity Cove podcast, when peanut butter disappears from school, Ella, Scout, and Layla launch a full detective mission. Their search leads them back in time to meet a brilliant inventor whose curiosity changed the world. And this Black History Month adventure, asking questions, thinking creatively, can lead to amazing discoveries. Listen to Adventures of Curiosity Cove every Monday from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, a.k.a. neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. power moves. So I'm like delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.