S25 Ep16: Your Voice Matters

Oxford Montessori School is now Oxford Millwood School. A new name, the same genuine care, academic ambition and belief in every child. Set within a beautiful rural campus, just 20 minutes from Oxford City Centre. Our small classes, personalised pathways and strong send expertise give pupils the support, challenge and confidence they need to succeed, especially those who may not have thrived in larger settings. Find out more at our Open Day on May the 21st. Search Oxford Millwood School Open Day. Resilience everywhere. Something was wrong is intended for mature audiences and discusses topics that may be upsetting. Please consume with care. This season discusses sexual, physical and psychological violence. For a full content warning, sources and resources, please visit the episode notes. Opinions shared by the guests of the show are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of Broken Cycle Media. The podcast and any linked materials should not be misconstrued as a substitution for legal or medical advice. The university's responses to our outreach for comment are included within our reporting this chapter. Thank you so much for listening. When my case made it past screening, that's when they felt like they have enough evidence that they could make an arrest. My prosecutor prepared to me that the first plea deal that they would present would be something ridiculous. And then we just negotiate that over the course of months and months. Eventually we settled that he would be on the registry for 10 years. The jail time that we agreed to was 30 days. When I got in contact with my victim advocate, Alex, about a year into the process, I was telling her about it and she was just floored by what had happened. She was the one that put me in contact with my lawyers for my civil case. Here's Marissa. As the civil process started, I was warned that it would take a long time. Civil cases can take years and that's what ended up happening with me. The three entities that we decided to sue were the University of Utah, Utah Valley University and the Board of Higher Education. They put the Board of Higher Education in there because the Board of Higher Education is over all of the schools. We definitely thought that there should have been some communication through the University of Utah and UVU about my situation. Instead of them sending me on a goose chase to all of these different places, they could have simply sent an email and said, this is what's going on. I think it's really important that that's available to students because these universities are so close and there are people who take classes at multiple universities. There just should be some oversight in that way. A few months in the Judge Dismissed Utah Valley University and the Board of Higher Education from my lawsuit. So all that was left was the University of Utah. When those two entities were dismissed from my case, I wasn't as shocked about the Board of Higher Education, but I was fairly shocked about my University Utah Valley because there was absolutely no follow-up and there was absolutely no help for me and I was their student. I was somebody that they were responsible to. As we continued on with the University of Utah, that's when we started depositions. Deposition is basically when the opposing side gets to take your statement, it's recorded, and they try to ask you questions, but your lawyer is there and your lawyer can object to questions that are asked, but you still have to answer them and that's just later for court where they can comment that they already objected to that question that was asked. So I had a deposition with a lawyer for the University of Utah. There were two other people there who were higher up at the U and I had my lawyer there and assistant advocate. It was hours long. When I was deposed, I was nervous because I felt like they were going to try to use my words against me. Luckily, I had really good lawyers and they prepared me really well. During my deposition, they were trying to make the point that I wasn't a student there and that their responsibility was not to me. I tried to make it clear to them that there were so many things that I did on that campus and also the bigger picture that this person was not safe on their campus and they really didn't care. So going through that deposition obviously was hard because it brings up old feelings. Preparing for it too is hard because you have to go through everything, you have to remember things that a traumatized brain tries to delete. So I think that that made it really hard, but I do feel like that I was as prepared as I could be and my lawyers were really good at helping me. They were really good at objecting when they needed to. So that was really helpful. So I had that deposition and I felt pretty good about it and then they also deposed my friend who was with me at the Title IX meeting with the University of Utah and then our side gets to depose their side. So they deposed the woman that I met with at the Title IX office, one of the football coaches and the associate athletic director over the University of Utah. I just wanted to share a couple of things that we found out through the deposition in the interviews with the football coach. A couple of his comments that were interesting. He said, they are high profile student athletes and these athletes sometimes people say things that are not true. And so when we hear of things like this, that may happen, that forces us to take different responses for things. My lawyer asked him at any point, did anyone ask SL if he had done it? What he was being accused of and by anyone, I mean anyone on the football team. And he said, I can't answer that. She said, why? And he said, because I don't know, this type of conversation doesn't proceed unless the coach asks him, hey, did you do this or not? Because obviously if you do this, you're gone, you're out of here. At this point, he had not and then he paused. We're only as good as the information that we're receiving and whether he lied to us or not, that's something different. But all we can do is take the information that we had on hand and we know that through this conversation that he has some kind of representation so therefore we're asking for the lawyer to provide us with some kind of information so we can make a decision on what we need to do. So to me, basically he's saying that ignorance is bliss. They don't want to ask the question because they don't want to know the answer. So then my lawyer says, okay, but that wasn't my question. At any point, did anyone ask him if he had done it? What he was being accused of? And he said, I can't answer that question because I don't know. We could make assumptions on what has happened and what has led to this point. But for us to ask a lawyer to provide documentation stating that he had not done anything or hasn't been charged warrants that. Maybe we did ask but I wasn't there during that conversation so I can't answer that. Then the coach says no, no one asked him if he did this nor did he volunteer that to them as well. The only things that we wanted to know was had he been charged with anything and so obviously it's a police investigation. They were not trying to get associated in that whole thing and have any information that honestly we just didn't really want that would drag them down a different path. So the information that we were trying to acquire is to best lay the course. So basically what my lawyer is getting at here is that they needed to cover themselves by getting a lawyer to say that he isn't charged with anything, not that he didn't do it. As the victim of this crime, their response is obviously upsetting because they were focused on legal liability instead of whether I or their campus was safe. They didn't want to have any of that information because they would have been forced to pass it along to law enforcement and that would lead them down a path that they didn't really want to deal with. So to me they allowed misconduct because he had broken team rules again and again and they just let it slide continuously. Somewhere around February 10th to 14th he was suspended for off the field issues and my lawyer says what is the off the field issue that this is referring to? My lawyer says this allegation correct and the coach says correct. After they went through more of the information in this deposition, the coach changed his tune and explained that that's not why he was suspended but that he was suspended for showing up to practice intoxicated. He says he was in no condition to practice and we sent him home and told him he is not traveling. My lawyer specifies drugs and or alcohol and the coach says yes. I remember at the time he had been suspended the head coach of the University of Utah announced it and I remember thinking that it was possibly because of my situation. I had a friend on the soccer team at the University of Utah and I remember texting her and she let me know that her best friend's boyfriend who's also on the football team said that it was because he showed up intoxicated to practice and I thought this was really interesting because they knew about all of these allegations and had known but that had nothing to do with why he was suspended from the team. At this point they know about the allegations with me going on and the coach texts him and says we are going to pay for the remainder of your summer school. Not only was he suspended from the team, he had previous write-ups with the football team that we found and he has these allegations about my situation and they are still continuing his scholarship throughout the summer. I really was shocked because I didn't even understand how he was on a scholarship to begin with. He got a DUI but they knocked it down to an impaired driving and that was all while he was on the team. At least this is what he explained to me. I find this very troubling because he's clearly not doing well and he's clearly not meeting the expectations that the team has set out as their core values and what players need to be doing and the way that they need to present themselves. He's not meeting these expectations and they're continuously giving him chance after chance, not really coming to terms with the fact that he is a dangerous person and they're allowing him and enabling him to be on this team and have all of the benefits of being on the team and having this help with school while he is out there making poor choices. I think that if they cared about more than just their football team and winning and what the best thing was for their team, they would have seen that he was clearly not okay and they could have taken action on that and that could have probably prevented what happened to me because he would have had help that he needed earlier. I just think that it's very negligent to ignore these signs and ignore that someone is clearly not keeping up with the standards that you've set out for them. Then my lawyer talked with a coach about why SL was living at home. He had told me that he was living at home because the coaches and his parents thought that that was going to be the best option for him to kind of stay accountable. In the deposition the coach had said that they can't force him to live at home but they can highly recommend it and in my opinion if they're going to highly recommend something he's going to do it and that just shows more of the university, specifically the coaching staff, having power over him even if it's off campus. Throughout the civil process there were text messages that came up and when they would text him they would say, hey what's going on with the situation, hey what's going on with the thing. They would never acknowledge it for what it was. They wouldn't even say hey what's going on with the investigation. That really just takes away from the seriousness of it. They kind of view it as this thing like hey is it done yet? Has it been swept under the rug yet? That's my interpretation of the messages that I read. So all this information came to light. He was continually breaking the rules and they just let it slide and it worries me for their campus. It worries me for other women around there because he's one of how many football players. That's not to say every single athlete is bad. My husband played basketball in college. He would never dream of doing something like this but when you have three people who are being investigated for sexual misconduct in six months I think that that is reason to put a little bit of a closer eye on things that are going on with your players. Well it seems like a sign that also within that system or team or department that perhaps whatever the consequences are are not significant enough to deter athletes from making these horrific choices. Exactly and it's not like this was the first time and it won't be the last and clearly exactly what you're saying there has been no sort of discipline that has been clear enough to these players. Get that MX gold card ready. I'm way too tired to cook tonight. You read my mind with the gold card we can get up to 120 dollars a year in statement credits. Are you feeling the cheesecake factory five guys either of those sound good. Yes which one both pay with the gold card to receive up to ten dollars a month in statement credits of participating partners uncover more ways to reward yourself at americanexpress.com slash explore dash gold enrollment required terms apply. Saving for your next milestone turn your everyday errands into cashback opportunities. Thanks to the blue cash every day card we can earn 3% cash back in the U.S. on essentials like groceries at supermarkets online retail purchases and gas stations. That's how we started growing our family's little nest egg. Take the next step with blue cash every day from MX learn more at americanexpress.com slash explore dash b c e terms and cash back capital apply. There's nothing like the American Express Platinum card. Find out your welcome offer after you apply which could be as high as 175,000 points. Learn more and find out your offer at americanexpress.com slash explore dash platinum terms apply. The people of Britain love their fancy blenders. They bought loads of them and luckily if they bought them with Barkley card they earned rewards. In fact they'll earn rewards on all their eligible purchases. It's a more convenient way to consume your proven bench. What you buy is your business. Giving you rewards on purchases is ours. Barkley card back in your future. 28.9% APR representative variable subject to application financial circumstances and borrowing history t's and c's apply. If the world were like a sleep number mattress everything would adapt for your comfort because as your life changes and your body changes sleep number mattresses adapt and shift to give you personalized comfort night after night. And now everything's on sale during our Memorial Day event. Save up to 1200 on mattresses for a limited time. To experience a whole new world of comfort visit a sleep number store or go to sleepnumber.com sleep number to a good life sleep. They moved forward in the deposition to the Title 9 employee that I met with. The woman who worked at Title 9 remembered pretty much nothing about the experience. They asked her if I had anyone there with me. She said that I did not have anyone there with me. They asked her a lot of questions about the interview. They asked her did you tell her that you don't handle substance abuse issues on campus. And Erica said I wouldn't have worded it like that. She kept answering their questions like that. Like I never would have said it like that. And I think this is so interesting because I had a friend there with me who heard all of this and it just goes back to feeling completely disregarded. And the fact that she didn't even remember so much of our meeting that she couldn't even remember my friend was there. I knew that this was just another day for her, another interview. And for me that interview was so traumatizing. And for her that was a Tuesday or Wednesday or whatever it was. Something that they really stand by is that I didn't say his name and that I didn't want to say his name. Which I just think is so interesting because why would I be going into your office to make a report about one of your players if I didn't want to say his name. If I was looking for help for myself and resources for myself, I would have gone to my university knowing that I'm a student there. And I tried to go to my university but they obviously weren't very helpful. But at the point where I was going to the University of Utah, I was looking to make a report on their student. And so I just think it's a little bit silly for them to say that I didn't want to say his name. They talked about how throughout my meeting with the Title IX employee, she talked about an alternate resolution and how that is what most victims find healing through. And the alternate resolution is where I would make stipulations and my perpetrator would have to agree to them. And these stipulations are getting more education so that he doesn't make mistakes like this next time. Keeping up with the coaches to make sure he's being accountable to showing up to practice. But all of these things are things that he has to agree to. My lawyer was just kind of asking him, is this something that you force students into or you force victims into? And so he's saying that they can only highly suggest that they go with the alternate resolution. Then he talked about how they have a case management system that tracks open reports and cases and that those records are coded primarily by party status, which is the faculty, staff, and the student. He talked about how there's no formal designation for athletes in the system. So cases involving athletes are tracked as students, not separately by sports participation. At this time, when I was going through this situation with the Title IX office, there was actually two other investigations for rape on the football team. They talked about how even though there were three reports of sexual misconduct against players on the football team within six months, they would not classify that as an obvious risk. Instead, the team might receive additional training, resources, or education, but there would be no direct accountability or targeted intervention. In the deposition, he kind of explained it as a balancing test. They consider the number of reports, the type of misconduct, and whether it involves the same or different people. Their default response, I guess, is largely preventative and educational rather than disciplinary. So this shows me that the office is structured to process complaints procedurally and not necessarily to prevent repeated misconduct or protect vulnerable groups. Throughout the deposition, my lawyer was really trying to make the point that the University of Utah didn't know if I was affiliated with them at all. She knew I wasn't a student, but she never asked if I had taken courses there, if I did activities there. And these are things that they would be responsible to if I did. And I had taken courses there, I had taken seminary classes there, and I was often on their campus for different sporting events. My lawyer was trying to say that they didn't even know if I was affiliated with the University because they didn't ask. And during these intake appointments, these are things that you would usually try to inquire about and figure out ways that you can help. They didn't even ask the proper questions in the first place to understand the context behind the assault. So they didn't even know exactly where the assault had even happened. My lawyer just made a huge point that they didn't even ask the questions to understand if their campus was in danger or if there was something that they could do to keep their students safe. Throughout this civil process, these were things that I found out. Seeing all these things come to light during the investigation, it kind of added insult to injury and it further traumatized me because I saw just how much that could have been done to help him get to a healthy place. Towards the end of my civil case, there was a Supreme Court ruling that barred emotional damages in Title IX cases. This basically just means that you can't put a price tag on someone's emotional damage anymore in Title IX cases. And this is a huge deal because most of the damage done was emotional. What they do in these situations is your lawyer pays experts to come in and kind of see the psychological damage that these traumatic experiences give you. They can kind of explain this is where she was as a person and this is where she is now because of these experiences. I don't think that everyone knows this, but you can put a price tag on that. For example, I was in school at this time and I was on a good path in school, but because this happened, I was deterred, school is going to take a lot longer, it's going to be a lot more expensive. I decided not to go into the field that I was going to go into and so all of that is lost money for me and that's all considered emotional damage. And so when the Supreme Court barred that, that was beyond detrimental to all Title IX cases. So I knew when that happened that I probably wouldn't have the best chance of my case moving forward, but obviously I still had hope. The point that we got to with my case was the University of Utah filed a motion to dismiss. Basically what that means is the judge goes through the information that we have and decides whether or not I have a good case. So they sent forward my case for summary judgment is what it's called. Literally it takes months. The judgment that came back was basically that the University of Utah didn't have any control over the context of my assault and that because it happened off campus, they didn't have control over SL or his choices. The judge on my case was on my case throughout the whole entire thing when Utah Valley University and the Board of Higher Education were dropped and then when the University of Utah was dropped. In his judgment, he said reliance on the 2019 Players Policy Manual general instruction that football players should treat women with respect both on and off campus does not mean that the University has control over the context of virtually every off campus location in which one or more of its athletes attends a private party. So he basically goes on to say that the University of Utah did not have control over the assault. It was around August 30th, 2024 when the civil case was dropped. Can you walk us through what your emotional process was receiving that news? I think this was really hard for me because in the things that we found throughout the investigation, it's very clear that they had so much more control over him than they were taking responsibility for. So I was very discouraged when the judge came back with that. I obviously disagree. I think that there were things that they could have done so many times leading up to this where they could have either gotten him help, added discipline, something that wasn't enabling him to have this much freedom. And I think that when somebody is a student athlete, there are obviously a lot of perks that come with that. I think that as a student athlete, you have to live to a higher standard. So knowing that behind the scenes, he was doing all of these very damaging things to himself and the community around him, I think that it's very unfair that they protected that and that they enabled that. Absolutely. And if you look at the statistics, athletes at Power Five schools were found to be three times more likely to be named in Title IX sexual misconduct complaints than their share of the student population. So clearly, this is a rampant issue across campuses. Yeah. And I think that it's really interesting, especially that the coach said, because these people are high profile, that they have a lot of false allegations made against them. Because I think from the research that I've seen, it's like 2% to 10% of rape charges are proven false. That's a tiny number. That's two out of 100 people. I think even then it's skewed because there are so many people who don't report. I just think to have that mentality that people lie about student athletes is really damaging. I think that that really affected me for a long time. It's not that I needed the money or that I was sad that I didn't get any money. I was really shocked that this happened in this situation because it makes me wonder how many more of these situations are going on at the university and how many more athletes are being enabled in this way. And that's just a dangerous game. And it's dangerous for people to be on campus and there to be no oversight in that way. My lawyers worked so hard. They contacted so many other lawyers who had won cases in different ways. And we really tried to figure out a way to beat this. And it just unfortunately wasn't the case for me. When you first met with Title IX, you mentioned their emphasis on being a neutral office. Did you feel throughout this process that their office was neutral? Absolutely not. I definitely could feel that they were supporting their student. When I had mentioned Jay's name, I could tell she got a little bit uncomfortable because he was a player that played more. And once I confirmed that it wasn't him, you could see her notably relax. She did say that they were a neutral office, but in the same breath, she said that their responsibility is to their student. That's how the follow-up was. At the time, I didn't understand what Title IX was there for. And so I thought that the way that she was acting was normal. And now I know better to know that she was able to offer me resources and she was able to offer me different forms of help and that she should have been inquiring more about their student and about the safety of their campus. We're two years down the road now. I got a phone call in August about how he was trying to get off of probation two years early. He had already served two years. I think I had a day to contest it because you only have 14 days and I hadn't been notified until the last day. I found out that I wasn't legally supposed to be notified, which I just think is crazy. If my perpetrator is trying to get off of anything and I'm allowed to give a statement, I think that I should be notified. And so I notified that I did not agree and I was able to go in in September and give a statement. I had really gone back and forth about making a statement here. I had just decided that he and I had discussed this plea deal. We had both agreed to this plea deal. I feel like I have empathy for him in a lot of ways. So again, it was hard for me to make this decision, but I think that it's good for the community as a whole. There were a lot of people there that day for various reasons. I stayed in a private room until it was my turn to go up and give my statement. We actually got called first and so I went in and I went directly up to the podium. It was the same podium that I had spoken at two years earlier. This is the statement that I gave at his probation hearing. This was September 16th, 2025. This took place at the Third District Court in West Jordan, Utah. And this is what I said. I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to be heard today. I am here to strongly oppose SL from being released early from probation. It was just a few years ago I stood and gave a statement about the impact his actions had on me. The impact of his crime against me is something I think about every single day and I will carry for the rest of my life. What happened to me was not just a single night, it has changed every part of who I am. Not only was I raped, but throughout the investigation and in the time that followed, I was subjected to ridicule, gossip, and persistent attacks on my character by his friends and family. Because of the rape, I still live with fear, anxiety, sleepless nights, and flashbacks. I am an intensive therapy that takes up several hours each week. This takes away from cherished time with my husband and two-year-old daughter. It has affected my relationships, my ability to feel safe in my own community, and my ability to trust others and even myself at times. I share this to emphasize that while I continue to live with the ongoing consequences of his actions, he too should be required to live with the accountability of his sentence for its full duration. Two more years of probation is not excessive when measured against the lasting impact I carry. During the course of plea negotiations, there were extensive discussions on both sides before a resolution was reached. Ultimately, both parties agreed to a plea agreement in which SL accepted a sentence of four years probation. I believe it is important that the agreement be upheld. Granting early release would not only minimize the seriousness of harm he caused, but it would also send the message that my pain and safety do not matter as much as his convenience. SL stated that substances were a large part of the context behind his assault against me. For as long as I have known him, he has consistently struggled with substance abuse. I do not believe there has been meaningful change. From what I understand, he continues to associate with the same individuals connected to those behaviors. Given the length and depth of his struggles, I think that it is unrealistic that these patterns could be overcome and resolved within just two years. Honoring the four-year probation that was agreed upon provides the additional time necessary to hold him accountable and support his sustained recovery. I want the court to know that I genuinely fear what might happen if he is allowed into the community without completing the full measure of his probation. I respectfully ask the court to uphold the original terms of probation as they were mutually agreed upon. I do not believe he has demonstrated the accountability, progress, or change that would warrant an early release. To shorten his probation would not only undermine the intent of the original agreement, but would also compromise the safety, stability, and peace of mind that my family and I are entitled to. As well as the safety of the community, SL and I both reside in. The full four-year term provides an important period of oversight and accountability, and it ensures that he is given the structure and responsibility necessary to address his long-standing issues. For these reasons, I strongly urge that the original probation terms remain in effect. And did the judge respond to you after you read that? I actually thought it was really interesting. I had memorized my statement, and so I had my paper with me, but I continuously was looking up at the judge just trying to make eye contact. And he actually kept eye contact with me the whole entire time. I really did feel like he was listening to what I had to say, which, like I've said, is just really rare. After I had given my statement, SL's lawyer had gotten back up to explain a little bit more, and she had said that he was not the one trying to get off of probation, that it had been recommended by the probation board, that he has done all the things that he needed to do to get off of probation early. I had been prepared by my team that usually the judge will side with the probation office's recommendation because they're the ones that are meeting with him. The judge basically said something to the extent of that he respects the recommendation, but that the motion for early termination of probation was denied. I was, like, really taken aback for a second. I felt like I didn't hear exactly what he said, because I was prepared for it not to go my way. And so I was really grateful that he ended up not getting off of probation early, because I think that that extra time is just going to be so important for him and for me and for our community. That was also very validating. Moving forward, there is a chance that he could try to get off of the registry early, and I am hoping that I'm notified about that. I think it's after five years. He can try to get off of it early, but that's kind of where we're at today. When I had given my first impact statement at the sentencing hearing, I had probably 15 to 20 people. There was quite a few people there. I depended on all of those people back then so much, and they did so much for me. For this hearing, I decided just to have my husband there. Really, at this point, he's who I need. Has your experience of having not only Marissa, but multiple friends you mentioned, that have been sexually assaulted while at college, has that changed the way that you see universities and those systems? Yes, totally. Here's Sarah. I think that a lot of the times athletes are excused for their behaviors, and they're protected in a lot of ways. That was super eye-opening once I went to college and saw that happening firsthand. What advice would you give to somebody who's in your position today who's trying to support their friend who's going through something similar to what Marissa went through? I think just checking in on them a lot, maybe even daily, just seeing how they're doing, being there for them. They won't be the same person after, and they will be deeply affected. But I think just making it known that you're there for them, and if they need anything, you're there is super helpful. Is there anything that you hope listeners will keep in mind or take away from hearing Marissa's story? I'm just so proud of her because I feel like she has been very brave, especially for the kind of person she is, how she is just more soft-spoken and doesn't love the spotlight on her. This was very unlike her to do and press charges. I would just hope that anyone else that is in this situation would do the same, be brave, and just protect people from the predator. There were other people that SL affected, and Marissa was brave enough to do something about it. What, if anything, changed about your perspective about sexual assault through this experience? I understand why so many individuals don't come forward. Here's Jane. This was years of her life that were altered and that she can't have DAC. It seemed like in so many ways he was protected and she was not advocated for, and things were delayed and documents were lost, and just so many things seemed to fall through the cracks. I would absolutely understand why people don't come forward. I would hope that people could take away the fact that there is help. My sister being an advocate with the Rape Recovery Center opened my eyes to the work that they do, because they did a really good job. Her advocate was very helpful and supportive and there through the whole process. It is so important that victims do speak up if they feel like they have the voice to do so. Here's Marissa again. I feel genuinely privileged that I was able to get criminal charges. That's why I feel an obligation to talk about this. I know so much now that it feels wrong of me not to share this and try to explain to other people this process and what their options are. I think that everyone deserves to know the reality of the systems put in place to help them. Everyone deserves to know what's normal in the process and when to start asking questions and advocate for themselves. So many things in my case didn't go the way that they should have. The people that I believed would protect me didn't and so many outcomes that I had hoped for never came. The reason that I'm sharing this is there were so many times that I had to fight for myself because no one else was going to. I want people to know that their voice truly matters even if the outcome doesn't reflect the truth. The truth still matters. I've had to mourn the person that I was before the rape and really before all of this and that's a version of me that I will never know again. I miss her but I honor her by using my voice when there are thousands of other women who don't get to use theirs. I want to do this so that other women know that they're not alone. I know that so many women go through this and it's so important to me that they know that there is help out there if one door closes, another door will open. You might just have to shove it open and I really just want everyone to know that the most important thing is not necessarily getting justice because a lot of times we don't get justice but the most important thing is using your voice because that builds confidence in yourself and that is usually what is destroyed when someone sexually assaults you. My voice was taken from me that night and throughout this process but I fought so hard to get it back and now I'm going to make sure that all of the people who were negligent in doing their jobs hear me so I just really want everyone to know that even though something terrible happened to you that doesn't have to be your story, your voice matters no matter what and the truth matters no matter what. What has been the most positive outcome that you've seen since speaking out? I think that the most positive thing that has come from this is definitely the confidence that I built back in myself. I have always been a people pleaser and for me to stand up for myself and make other people uncomfortable has really helped me in my healing journey. Another really positive thing, I've had so many people show up for me. I especially feel like my mom, she showed up for me in so many ways. She was constantly calling police sergeants, calling lawyers, calling neighbors, whatever she could do to help. That was something I wasn't capable of in the moment and so I was really grateful that she was there for that. Another really positive thing that has come from it is me being able to communicate with other victims of sexual assault. Since this came out, it was very public and I've had hundreds of messages from women who have had a similar situation either with a different university's Title IX office, with a sexual assault and even some with the University of Utah's Title IX office whose stories literally mirrored mine and are happening currently or have happened recently. It's really interesting to see that not much has changed. I got a message from a girl who I'm going to keep completely anonymous. She had had a similar experience with my perpetrator to me. It's so validating in the fact that I did something about this, that I wasn't mistaken about what happened. Another really big positive is that I have a daughter and she is my whole entire life. I get to tell her that I stood up for myself and I get to create that example for her of a strong woman and a woman that doesn't give up and she's going to know that no matter what I will always advocate for her, that is one of the most important things that I've learned. I am able to advocate for strangers that this has happened to. I'm able to advocate for friends. I'm able to give advice. I'm able to just be a listening ear and to be trusted with such sensitive topics. Tiffany, I know that you understand this because you are trusted with such sensitive topics. To be trusted with this, it's such an honor. It really helps me feel like I'm making a difference. Every single time I have conversations like this with women, I feel like a little piece of me and that version of me heals. What would you say to someone entering the Title IX process today? What would you want them to know? I think that the biggest thing that I would say to anyone who is going into a Title IX office would be to understand that you are there to advocate for yourself. I would advise if you are going through any sort of sexual assault case and you're meeting with police or Title IX offices, I highly, highly recommend you record absolutely everything. That's something that I really wish that I would have done. The process of being assaulted and the justice system process after that, something really surprising to me was that there were certain things that I thought would really matter. I remember when I was at the hospital and I got the rape kit done and they're taking pictures of my body. They're looking for bruising. I remember having a meeting with Detective Smith and her saying that bruising helps a lot in these cases and that bleeding, that really helps. I'm not an easily bruised person and I remember thinking, what I've heard is true. They do think that rape victims are only people who are beat up and I just learned that that is not even close to the reality of what a rape victim is. So many rapes happen even in marriages and those cases aren't compelling enough. A lot of women in those scenarios don't think that that's what's happening because of how society portrays rape. I think that another thing that was really surprising to me is I thought that there would be so much more oversight to what was going on. I would assume that a sergeant would be checking in, especially in the Special Victims Unit. And I thought at least if he would have checked in with his cases yearly, he would have seen what was going on with mine. I think it's always important to ask questions and advocate for yourself. If something is not going the way you had expected or you're not understanding something, it's so important to say that. If someone in the Title IX office isn't answering your question or there's something that you're not understanding, ask for somebody else in the Title IX office, ask to speak to the Dean of Students. Sometimes there are people who are not as qualified to do their job or they're not doing their job the right way and so I would just highly suggest you find a different person, find a different route. Don't let it make you lose hope because there's always someone else that can help. Something I want to make really clear is that it's really important to use the resources that you have to use victim advocates. I wish I understood better at the time, the process, and what should have been happening. And I wish that I would have been checking in with people above Detective Smith. I wish I didn't just take her at her word. That is super detrimental, especially to a victim because they already feel such a loss of control that when things consistently don't go the way that they're being told they're supposed to go, it just adds to the despair and the hopelessness of the situation. Especially with Detective Smith, there was a lot of dishonesty. I think that sexual assault is already so confusing, so dehumanizing, and then to have this on top of it from the person that was supposed to protect me and investigate my case, it was really confusing for me. One of the most unexpected parts of this experience was the amount of secondary trauma that I endured from the justice system and from the systems that were put in place to protect me. I feel in a lot of ways more traumatized by those systems than the assault itself. I was so betrayed by SL and by the assault, but I was able to understand what happened through therapy and understand that he was not a healthy person and understand the choices that he made were his, but then going through the justice system and seeing so many different people who knew better, who were trained better, who were getting paid to help victims, it was so shocking to me and so traumatizing to be continuously hopeful about something happening and continuously just shattered over and over and over again for three years. People can endure a lot, but enduring continuous disappointment like that for three years, it really changed me as a person and changed the way that I feel about people and for a long time the way I felt about myself. That was very shocking for me and a huge worry for me for other victims that might go through this in the future. The only solace that I take is that if next time he does something that it will be so much easier for the next woman. I think that's so important to note because I don't really know what people think victims benefit from through reporting. I don't know why someone would bring up a false allegation because they wanted attention or any aspect of it because it is such a difficult process. When the assault happened, that was obviously a trauma in and of itself, but there was still that hope on the other side of, okay, I know the police are supposed to help me. These are the places I'm being directed to go to the universities to get help. I still had a hope that I would get help that I needed and so then going through the institutional betrayal that I went through and the systemic betrayal that I went through, I think that that is when my hope was really crushed. That's the hard thing to get back. Just your hope and belief in safety and in the people that are supposed to keep you safe. I think that this is such a quiet process. You have to keep a lot of things kind of under wraps just for the legal system to keep the integrity of your case. Now that the court proceedings are over and I'm able to talk about it from my perspective and my truth, it's been so refreshing to see the support that I feel like I didn't really have during the court process. It's been really refreshing for me to be able to tell my side and talk about it a little more and to have that support. I know how much you've talked to me and how much emotional energy you've put into me. I just can't imagine how often you do this and how much you do this and the toll that it must take on you emotionally and physically and I don't even have the right words to express my gratitude for you. You make such a difference in people's lives and I'm so grateful for everything that you do. Thank you so much for saying that. It's truly an honor and I appreciate so much your kind words. Next time on Something Was Wrong. I learned that he was going to be at this party that I was going to that night. He kept it very casual, very cool, so I didn't really suspect that there was an ulterior motive. Sorority sisters were saying like, hey what happened between you and Justin? We're hearing stuff. I was being portrayed as someone that was easy and fast and I did not like that because that's not what had happened. I did not choose to give myself to him. He took it. I was getting acquainted with the word rape as it relates to what happened to me and I had come to terms with it and was ready to take steps. I think the fraternity president spoke to him and was like, we can't have you in our fraternity. So I think it tipped him off. He was mad. It was a case of if she's going to take me down, I'm taking her down with me. The following is University of Utah's reply to our request for comment. Quote, Utah Valley University student Marissa Root reported being sexually assaulted by a University of Utah football player at an off-campus party in 2019. After Root made an initial report to the University of Utah's Office of Equal Opportunity, staff repeatedly reached out to her to try to ascertain the name of the perpetrator. When the University of Utah learned the alleged perpetrator was football player Seon Lund, he was suspended and removed from the team. Lund pled guilty and was sentenced in 2023. This is a tragic case with far-reaching implications for everyone involved. We hope Marissa and the people who love and support her find opportunities for healing from this traumatic experience. The University remains committed to engaging in work to prevent violence from happening in the first place and fostering a trauma-informed community where students feel safe, supported, and heard. As Judge David Barlow noted in his March 3, 2025 ruling, quote, the University had no involvement or control over the party at the football player's parent's private residence. Additionally, reliance on the 2019 player's policy manual's general instruction that football players should treat women with respect both on and off campus does not mean that the University has control over the context of virtually every off-campus location in which one or more of its athletes attend a private party. Because this record does not supply the required nexus between the University and the off-campus party at a private residence, the University cannot be liable under Title IX, end quote. Utah Valley University responded to our request for comment with the following statement, quote, Tiffany, in compliance with privacy laws and institutional policy, the University does not comment publicly on individual cases handled through the Title IX process, as those proceedings are confidential to protect the privacy and rights of all parties involved. The safety and well-being of our campus community remain our highest priorities, end quote. Thank you so much to each and every survivor and guest for sharing their experiences with us, and thank you for listening. Something was wrong is a broken cycle media production created and executively produced by Tiffany Rees. Thank you endlessly to our team, Associate Producer Amy B. Chesler, Social Media Marketing Manager Lauren Barkman, Graphic Artist Sarah Stewart, and Audio Engineers Becca High and Stephen Wack, Marissa and Travis at WME, Audio Boom, and our legal and security partners. Thank you so much to the incredibly talented Abbiomi Lewis for this season's gorgeous cover of Gladrag's original song You Think You from their album Wonder Under. Thank you to Music Producer Janice JP Pacheco for their work on this cover recorded at the Grill Studios in Emeryville, California. Find all artists, socials linked in the episode notes to support and hear more. If you'd like to share your story with us, please head to somethingwaswrong.com. If you would like to help support the show, you can subscribe and listen ad free on Apple Podcasts, purchase a sticker from our sticker shop at brokencyclemedia.com, share the podcast with a loved one, or leave us a review. Want to stay up to date with us? Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at somethingwaswrong podcast. As always, thank you so much for listening. Until next time, stay safe friends.