Dirty Rush: They Said What?

Hi, it's Jill Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend, Krista Williams. It can change you in the best way possible. Dance with the change, dance with the breakdowns. The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves. So I'm like delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Daughter Podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd. In 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one-night stand would end in a courtroom. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 1969. Malcolm and Martin are gone. America is in crisis. And at Morehouse College, the students make their move. These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson, locked up the members of the Board of Trustees, including Martin Luther King Sr. It's the true story of protest and rebellion in black American history that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. Listen to The A-Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can scroll the headlines all day and still feel empty. I'm Ben Higgins, and If You Can Hear Me is where culture meets the soul. Honest conversations about identity, loss, purpose, peace, faith, and everything in between. Celebrities, thinkers, everyday people, some have answers, most are still figuring it out. And if you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to If You Can Hear Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Dirty Rush, the truth about sorority life. With your hosts, me, Gia Giudice, Daisy Kent, and Jennifer Fessler. Welcome back to another episode of Dirty Rush. Sororities and fraternities go hand in hand. The parties, the drama, the situations. But today we are flipping the script. We're putting fraternity boys in the hot seat and having them answer the questions sorority girls have always wanted to ask. but maybe never dared to. Why does this feel like Dirty Rush After Dark? Let's get into it. You think you know, but you have no idea. By the way, I just read a script. I didn't come up with that. That was brilliant. I want everyone to know that I didn't write that. All right, this is an episode of Dirty Rush. That was sexual. It's Ben Higgins, Bob Guinea, Dean Bell, Brett Adams, Wells Adams, and Zach Shellcross joining you. This is going to be rated X. I would not listen to it if you're under the age of 25. Welcome back to another episode. A little context for everybody listening. We are in Carmel, California together for the AT&T Pro-Am. everybody just started out. We're going to start with Brett Adams. We're going to go clockwise from there. Remind everybody where you went to school. Everybody here was in a fraternity of some type for some period of time. We're going to be answering questions that were sent in, and then we're going to be also answering questions from the sorority girls who are here with us. That kind of sounds weird considering most of us are married. They also work with us on the podcast. so uh bratt where'd you go to school university of kansas rock chalk jayhawk yeah hey you all right clockwise let's go well i forgot you didn't want to hear my fraternity oh yes i do thank you i went i was a phi gamma delta also known as a fiji bob guinea bob guinea here michigan state University Alpha Tau Omega ATO's. ATO's at my school were meatheads. Pretty much everywhere. You know Bob Guinea was a college quarterback at Michigan State. Of course I do. I went to the University of Mississippi, but we call it Ole Miss. I was a Sigma Chi, but I got kicked out. Ben Higgins here. Indiana University. Acacia. And I... Acacia? Yeah. What is that? It's a color. It's like a... It's like a bug. It's like a weird crayon color. It's kind of like the Bohemian Grove. It's a secret society. Did you make up something for this? No, I didn't. Dean. Hey, thanks, Ben. This is Dean Bell reporting live. I went to University of Colorado at Colorado Springs. Go Mount Lions. V! Colorado. Pi Kappa Phi. You were a pike? I'm just kidding. I was not in the loser and I was not in the fraternity. I didn't need to buy my friends, Wells. You were a GDI. A goddamn independent. That's right, buddy. Gamma, delta, iota. That's exactly what I was. Because again, I didn't need to buy my friends. Bring this conversation. I got so much smack to talk. All right, boys. We're going to bring this back into a place of actual organization. Is that sweater you're wearing, Acacia? I'm going to start with Bob Guinea here. How many STDs were rampant in your house? Personally or communitably? Both. That's a real question that was sent in. You know what's funny is that there was a girl in the sorority that was next to us. It was Kappa Kappa Gamma that had an STD that was... She had Acacia. What do you take for acacia? Because that one was very popular in ours as well. A lot of penicillin. A lot of penicillin, and I think you have to shave things. Wait, well, is she doing okay now? Yeah. No, she's dead now. Acacia kills. Everyone knows that. I would say at any given time, there's probably some stuff that could cause blindness. Others that just made you kind of have itchy, rashy things. But it was like a thing. I don't know if necessarily it was a thing. I do know that we had a nickname list, like a phone list, and there were some nicknames on it. And one of the guy's nicknames was the Alaskan King Crab. Why was he called that? He might have had a case of the crabs. Is that curable? With Acacia. I feel like yes. Amy jumped on that real fast. It felt very personal. Yes, absolutely it is. I don't have anything, but I want to provide accurate information for people listening. You didn't know that we weren't going to. You jumped on that way before we had a chance to respond. That felt very personal, Amy Sugarman. I have a question for Bob. And just to be clear for the listeners out there, this is East Lansing in the 1940s. Is that right? Just to be clear. What was happening during World War II? Was it tough? Am I supposed to be here? Am I the oldest guy here? But thankfully, Brad's here, so the answer is no. I'm not. Okay, so you were in the fraternity, and then you got drafted to fight the World War. Yes, we went to the WW2. That must have been tough, by the way. The Korean War, yes. Mexican-American War. You were in M.A.S.H. I remember that show, yeah. I did star in M.A.S.H. with Hot Lips Hulian. I think that's, Bob, I'm not going to even follow up, because I think that's a common answer for everybody here when it comes to a fraternity experience. I'll say this, though. I think it's important to talk about. There was a health department, and I always thought it was funny, because people would go to it because things were happening. Here's my question. That's the whole point of the health department. Why is that funny? That's the whole point of the health department. This question was about STDs. No one was going there because they had the flu. That experience is not solely on fraternities and sororities. Every college student has that experience. These GDIs eyes on my side of the aisle. Also, not me specifically, obviously. Have you ever gotten an ointment or a staff? Again, it feels like people are defending things they don't need to be defending right now. This fire department keeps fighting fires and it doesn't make any sense. This is about the fraternity and sorority life. It burns, Dean. It burns. Brett Adams, in terms of dating a frat boy, how do you know if a guy is actually interested in you or not if a guy is interested in me that's a strange question your rivalry was a really girl is asking this question she's wondering in terms of hey she's interested in fraternity boy you know your buddies you know yourself how do you like how does she know that you're actually interested in her as a fraternity guy or is the answer that they just aren't Well, I think between the fraternities and sororities that it's pretty much a conversation amongst friends and word gets around. And I would guess that this is such a strange question. Like, how am I supposed to answer whether someone's interested or not? But I think it's word of mouth that your buddy says, hey, this girl's interested in you. I don't know. I think you're on the right track. Anytime in my college experience, if somebody's interested in somebody else, there would be at least the conversation where the girl would be like, is he actually interested in me? And a buddy would be able to be like, 100% he is or not. Yes, but I also think guys will push their buddies into being interested whether they are or not. Yeah, especially like, I'm going to say this. date parties. Ah, yes. Remember date parties? Loved them. Date parties were a great opportunity to meet new people. And what I remember from those parties was lots of alcohol. Yes. And a lot of people saying, Wells, she doesn't like you. does that make a wells adams try harder yeah this is why i'm here today i've got a million questions and i'm so sorry to interrupt because i know you're managing this whole question uh topic debate answer um you went to kansas you went to michigan state you went to ole miss you went to indiana those are all prestigious and large schools and universities right same with colorado christian university of colorado spree The school's so nice, they had to use the state name twice. Twice. Thank you, Ben. Why on earth would either of you charismatic individuals ever need to be in a position to meet more girls? Because you're always going to be out and about at any of these great schools, right? And what is the incentive to go into a fraternity to meet more girls when you can already just go out into the street? We couldn't drink on campus. We had to have off-campus housing. You couldn't drink on campus? Also, some of us are not as charismatic as you are. We need some help. We don't all have a mustache. That's right. I couldn't grow that mustache if my life depended on it. Okay, another follow-up question. Brett, first of all, how dare you? Because you have more charisma in your one finger than I do in my entire body. That's not true. Don't sell yourself short, my friend. No, that's a genuine, honest question that I have. I went to a school that was probably a quarter of the size of all of your schools, and there was never an issue of meeting someone. Good for you. No, that's not what I'm trying to get at, Ben. Or making friends. And I'm not trying to disparage any of this decision-making, whether it's in a sorority or fraternity or anything. I'm just curious, what is the incentive on your guys' part to be in a fraternity? Did you have any friends that went to Colorado State University that you knew before you went to school? Yes, so many. Okay. I went to University of Kansas. I did not know one soul. Well, I didn't go there. That was my intro into college and to get friends, to acclimate myself So I didn have the luxury that you did Dean Which is what You had friends already and charisma i thought you were asking about friends that went to different schools did you have friends that went one so i i will say this i i also think at a larger school sometimes it helps to have some ways to make that place smaller like for me the football team made it really small the frat made it even smaller it was like i felt like i was i knew everybody so i went to school with two guys that I knew, but because I was on the football team, I didn't live with them. I was in the football dorm. I got to know a ton of people from that, but then the fraternity made it even smaller. So from that perspective, yeah, I took a really big school and made it really small. And you got to meet girls pretty easily. Yeah. So you knew one or two people. Two. You knew zero people. Zero people. I knew one person going to Ole Miss. Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius are misunderstood. A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, This episode is a must listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, it's where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks, and we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore. Loss that changes you. Purpose when success isn't enough. Peace when your mind won't slow down. Faith when it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to If You Can Hear Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level if the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. my question is when you went to a date party did you ask the girl you had a crush on or did you ask the girl you were friends with i i will say this i went to a lot of date parties as a friend that ended up you know potentially benefits having benefits yeah but i i did have I didn't date. I didn't ask anybody I had a crush with necessarily because I just went to the sorority date parties. They were way more fun. And to be honest, I think the reason why I went out to parties and invited new people and tried to meet girls was also just like that acceptance of, hey, I have like attractive girlfriends that can like I will see at the bars. It was almost like a fun community that you were building of like, oh, no, my buddy's coming with me. I know so-and-so girl. Let's go sit with him in the night. That's totally cool. I've gone to two date parties with her. We're good friends, and all of her friends are attractive. And that's almost like a status thing for me where I'm like, my buddies are coming with me to meet the good-looking girls at the bar. Ben was just collecting hot chicks. from what I understand about this story. Zach, you relate to the party. We need to ask real quick, have you ever had a bad case of Acacia? Yeah. A bad case of Acacia? Sure, plenty. Yeah, what's your... What is that again? Did you take penicillin together? It was Ben's fraternity. I'm going to ask Will's this question. How fast do guys decide if a girl is just a hookup girl or a girlfriend material? I think it happens instantly. Yeah. Thank you. I agree. Thank you, Dean. Yeah, I think it happened that you know immediately. What are we doing here? No one's listening to this show. 700,000 downloads yesterday. Yeah, I agree, though. I think you know. But I also think women feel the same way about men. I don't think it's. Women decide a lot quicker than men do. Yes. and they're like, I will tolerate you for another 20 minutes or not. 20 minutes seems like a light. Honestly, I think it's more the other way around. I think that she's tolerating me right now. This is working out well. This is awesome. I might have sex. I might get a case tonight. Zach, I got a question for you. I think you're going to be perfect for it. we all shared the STDs we've dealt with in life. STDs. Yeah. No, we haven't. We've all shared them together. Other than us all having a mutual case of occasion. You wonder how I know you haven't shared that is because Wells is still not talking right now. Oh, yeah. It's a long, long delay. That's a good point. Okay, no, Zach, my real question for you. And this was written in by a sorority girl wanting to know these answers. For the love. What is something, if you could go back to college, what is something in college that would give you the ick? Like, make you completely turned off? And if anybody after Zach Answers has any insight into chiming in on this, I think it is a helpful question. My God. In college, I... Let's just put it this way. Desperate's not the right word for myself, but it was pretty damn close. So not a lot of things gave me the ick as a 305-pound offensive lineman at not a great football school. That's a great answer, yeah. So you were okay with anything. Attention was awesome. I had standards, Bob. I had standards. Kind of. I have a friend who used to say a great saying. He would always go, you know, Bob, if your standards are too high, lower them. That's what he would say. I swear to God, I was like, brilliant. I don't know how I think of that. I don't know if my insight into this when it comes to college. And that man was a D. And that man was Kenny Rogers. Well, college is like, yeah. I want to hear what you have to say, Ben. I think I thought you were going in this direction. I think in college, what gave me the itch was anybody that felt too forward and interested in talking about a future too quickly. In college, I was not in the space to ever think about marriage. I was there to figure myself out and have a good time. And if anybody on a date or at a bar or at a date party would corner me and be like, define this. what is this? That would be like, it's not my thing. I thought you were about to say they're too into me and I'm like, are you kidding me? What kind of problem is that? We can all beat around the bush, but the ick is a stinky vagina. I'm sorry. Damn. I don't disagree. Is anybody here going to say no? Bob, do you literally disagree? My mic doesn't seem to be working. That's like a literal icky We are laying it all out. Easton, let's go ahead and cut that. I've got to be honest, I didn't know that we were laying it all out. I thought we were kind of playing playing. This is 100% laying it all out. Let me just ask that question based on a Brett's response. Oh, my God. That's why I'm so glad you're here. Brett just makes my life so much easier. From zero to 60, so bad. You couldn't even get in the talk five minutes ago. I was told that this is no whole spot. Yeah, this is the same place. So whatever it is, and when you say it, it's, I'm sorry. Is it not the safety tree? No, to Brett's point. Are we not in the nest? Nate, Brett might be the only one willing to say it. But to Brett's point, if you run into that situation in college, is it not talked about amongst your fraternity brothers? 100%. 100%. 100%. So is he wrong? No. He's wrong in my opinion. Grand I'd average many brothers, but that was never talked about that with your fraternity brothers That was never like a topic cover in my experience that was just thank you be okay for you I mean, are you saying you're good Dean respond or it doesn't exist in Colorado? It's just so tricky because I'm married and I love my wife. It is the cleanest, most sanitary place in America. I'm fully pulling myself back to college. I got one thing to say. Stinky vagina is still better than no vagina. Oh my goodness. And I think we can all agree on that. Goodness, I can't wait for that. That's insightful. I can't wait for that to become a headline on Us Weekly. The name of this podcast is going to be Stinky Vagina is better than no vagina. That is such a good quote from Dean. That's all we need. Can I give a normal answer? Or like a good one? About stinky vagina? No. There's nothing worse than someone talking about their family. I don't need to know about your parents. I don't care what's happening over there. You want to know? You're doing your thing? That's fine. No. You don't want to know about the person you're talking to? No. You don't want to remember their daughter? It's a lot of Fox News. Let's be honest. Wait, wait, wait. He was an old man. Everyone's parents watches Fox News in this room right now. All right? Okay, okay. And the second that you start... Talking about their family? Let me talk about your parents. They're going to be like, well, they love... Tucker Carlson. You're like, fuck! I gotta go! They watched which halftime show? You know what I'm talking about. I don't care. Let's go have a lovely dinner. But you just met this person. And they say, oh, my mom. No, the question wasn't do I just meet them. The question was, is he the ick? And someone like well let me tell you my dad He loves Tucker Carlson You like fuck Gotta get out of True true I got to go This is what hard to hear from a GDI perspective on this is Ben said marriage too quickly You said family too quickly. For me, it was like, you guys are already talking about taking it to that level. Never in my experience did I experience that. What were you talking about? My biggest dick in college was a girl that was addicted to meth. You know what I mean? Fair. And in Colorado Springs, there was a fair bit of that, okay? Where did you go to school? Colorado Springs is a good place in Colorado, in the Colorado Springs campus. What I'm trying to make is, Ben is like, oh, she's trying to get married too quickly. Well, I was like, she's trying to introduce me to her parents too quickly. I'm like, oh my gosh, you're not doing meth? That's awesome. I'm in. You have all your teeth? For God's sake. It was rough out there, okay? Speaking of hygiene. none of this is usable it's gonna just be blanked out you'd be surprised yeah it's very usable speaking of hygiene Bob Guinea were you ever worried about your living conditions at the fraternity house no I'm super OCD anal weirdo you know about that you were clean in college my roommates weren't always Dean you weren't in a fraternity but were you ever worried about the cleanliness of the home that you were living in? Well, okay. Not a chance in hell. I'm concerned about the home he's currently living in. Whoa. No, I shared a room with a young man for a good couple years there. Was he also a raccoon? He was King Raccoon. I mean, you guys know me. Most of you guys know me pretty well. I'm pretty easygoing when it comes to that stuff, right? So it's like, oh, don't worry about showering for a couple weeks. Don't worry about wiping your butt after you go to the bathroom. As long as you're happy, I'm happy, basically. But there were a couple times where you're in a place and you're like, is that guy going to clean himself ever? And they probably thought the same thing about me, too. And it's different. Why? because you guys were all in fraternities and you're living closer to each other than we are, or I am with my friends. But yes, I was worried about my friend's sanitation a couple times. How often, Brett, were you washing your sheets in college? That is a very good question. That's the best one so far. In the circle of truth here, I would maybe hope I wash my sheets every two weeks. That's good. That's really good. I agree. I think that's normal. Yeah. I was a once a week guy. You were a once a week guy. Oh, that's really good. Wells. We're not filthy like Dean. What? I would literally go once a semester. I'm right. Yeah. Dean, I'll wear that badge proudly. Dean, you just put those sheets on. Why would I do to wash my sheets when I'm going to bed after a shower? His sheets stand up. What does that even mean, sir? Are you guys actually telling the truth right now that you washed your sheets in the fraternity? I don't like feeling dirty. On a weekly or twice a month baseless. Because I was in a sorority and I'm scrolling the brain right now to be like, did I ever wash my sheets? And I'm a clean person. Because did you have a washer dryer in the fraternity? I did. Yes. Yeah, we didn't have like working water, but we had like a washer and dryer in our kitchen. I do think you're unique. Fluff and fold, guys. I'm weird with that stuff, though. I was going to say, I think it's a unique group where I know enough about all of you to believe you telling the truth. Because I think all of us, even since college, high school, we were washing our sheets often because we want to be clean. I've always been weird about my sheets. Especially when you've got that much business rolling through those sheets on a weekly basis. And when you're struggling. for all of us Bob just out of curiosity Ben and when you're struggling with Acacia when you got a bad case of Acacia you want to keep that shit clean we also have 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 sorority girls just by a show of hands who wash their sheets once a week? once a week? that's impressive what's that tell you about you? this is let me this is what it is all of you folk over here They're lying. They're lying. Okay, there's probably part of that, too. But it's just a rich folk thing to wash your sheets all that often, okay? That's what it is. Because if you can wash your sheets once a week, that means you have a backup set of sheets that you can put on the bed while the other sheet is washing. That's not how sheets work. Sheets take like an hour. What is that time you cleaned your own sheets? That's not how sheets work. Okay, Richie. Yeah, I understand what you're getting at here. I was in your ivory tower. Yeah, yeah. I wash my sheets one time and they disintegrate in the dryer because that's how poor quality they were. That's why we couldn't do it in Colorado Springs. He's got seven thread caps. Okay, Richies. I didn't know like it is still a thing in my life now. I don't let shoes ever touch the bed. When my wife packs and she puts her like um uh don't throw your wife under the bus luggage up there no it's there we we do it in our home there is never a shoe that touches the bed while we pack in fact luggage doesn't even hardly touch our bed because that's been so many different places that is a sacred place for sacred things to happen sacred yeah all right Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius, like, are misunderstood. A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, it's where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks, and we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore. Loss that changes you. Purpose when success isn't enough. Peace when your mind won't slow down. Faith when it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to If You Can Hear Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict? A villain? A nurse named Lucy Letby. Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level if the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question, of his life. And that's, a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. we're gonna go back to wells for this one be honest uh there is a beautiful girl that you have uh shown interest in she's shown interest back how important to you is it that she gets good grades. No. In addition to... Sorry. Sorry. I didn't think... Just so everyone knows, I didn't say that. Yeah. I prefer bad grades. You... Here's the scenario. You invite her to a date party. You've been into her physically. You show up and she... What does that mean? I've been into her. You've been into her physically. Physically. You show up to the date party and she drops the bomb that like, hey, I'm going to actually be here an extra semester because I just failed three of my five classes. Marry her. Does that... Be honest. Is it a bad thing? Good thing? Do you not care? The fact that I graduated from college is a wild thought experiment for me. So the fact that someone else might have done that, I'm totally fine with maybe them taking five years of which I took. I like to call it a victory lap. You know what? That's good. My wife didn't go to college. She's very smart. but I like to think that it doesn't matter how long it takes you get through college if you love someone or you find someone it's pretty great and if they have Acacia there's penicillin for that I don't know how a gamma didn't get added to this list that feels like a beta you hate that answer? I just don't think you're telling the truth I think the truth would be you don't care if they got good grades or not. I don't care. I mean, to be honest with you, I really don't care. There's something attractive about a girl that gets better grades than you do, at least in my opinion. I don't see how you couldn't. If the girl's smarter than you or more applied than you are, that's kind of hot, I think, right? Yeah. Yeah. I see that point, too. I'm not saying that you're wrong, obviously. I'm just saying it is inherently attractive. It's more of a I don't care. I don't care if you're like super smart or not that smart. As long as like we connect on some sort of like emotional level, that's all that really matters to me. I always felt like, I feel like I'm just talking every time you ask Wells a question. I'm just like, here I go. Yeah. Tell me more, Dean. Let me tell you how I feel. Every time there was a girl that was way smarter and way more applied than I was. I was like, I gotta find a way to talk to her. You know, not for any other reason than just be like she's way better than I am and I need to prove to myself that maybe I can be on her level for at least a moment that what I saying so there something inherently attractive about a girl that smarter than you and you never thought like I want to date her because she going to make more money than me and she can potentially just float this life Listen, listen, listen. As someone that's married to someone that makes way more money than he does. It was a great decision. It's not something I strived for, I guess. But you fall through. Yeah, but you did a great job doing it. So did I, dude. Nice work, boys. Good job. Brett I'm coming back to you for this one best and worst pledge experience the scenario here set up by the question was hey is it ever frustrating for guys as they try to get into a fraternity the pledge ship is so long girls don't really do the pledging it's more fun and like exciting for everybody but the guys kind of go through like a really tough few weeks as they lead up to getting accepted into the fraternity was ever frustrating for you but then also shared the best things that come out of pledgeship uh yeah i mean pledgeship sucks uh i think all these guys will tell you that it's horrible uh the actives uh make your life as miserable as possible uh it's not fun for however long it is, whether it's four months, nine months, whatever it is, it is a miserable time that you think or they tell you that there's a light at the end of the tunnel and to keep going. My worst experience during that was, you know, obviously the accessibility the actives had that could wake you up at any time of the night for whatever they needed. If they wanted omelet made at three o'clock in the morning because they came home drunk. You had to do that. That sucked. The bond that I made with the guys, I am much older than most of you guys here. And those, that's right. Shit for you, Bob. Thank God. Thank God. We are here together holding hands. But I will tell you that the bond that I made with these guys, I still have a text chain with all my fraternity brothers. I still see them every year. And I think that is pretty special, despite whether you think that a fraternity is good or not at my age to still have the friendships that I have with these guys. I wouldn't trade it for the world. And I think it's the point of doing this whole thing. Zach, final question. we're going to throw back to a question we've already asked before we open it up to a second part of this episode where we get live questions thrown at us. Yeah, yeah. Because I don't know how well we actually answered this, but how did you know in college if a girl was just a hookup or a girlfriend? I was here for that part. Oh, you were there? I don't think you actually were. His answer was not clearly very memorable. I remember running to the way, guys. falling a step behind. Wait, so what was the question? You were in fact not here for this part. Your first question asked was more about the ick, but this was how do you know if a girl was just a hookup or girlfriend material? Okay, I walked in right when you guys were talking about this. I would say how would you know? I mean it's pretty immediate but like i piggyback off what you said like they're making the decision before like and i'm gonna lean on this again uh i didn't have the um wherewithal to make have that decision i didn't have that thought process really i was like hell yeah whatever let's go could you hey you want to talk sweet I like the talk. Oh, we want to go further? Cool, too. Based on Zach's answer and Wells' answer, would we all agree? Because I think this is like revolutionary for so many. That when we're in college specifically, I think girls, in a lot of ways, want the guy to be interested. And really the message that you guys are sending is, really the guys are just hoping the girl's interested. Is this like a lesson thing? It's a life lesson. It's also in life in general. Whether in college or not. But I think we don't hold the cards, my man. Yeah, we really. I think that's the point. We've never been in charge. We've never been in charge. And I mean, I do think that is like a note to take from this is all of us are sitting here being like, we never felt in charge. No. No, we're just trying to figure it out. We had no idea what we're doing. Still don't. But like figuring it out on the fly. But a pretty girl is interested in you. You are ecstatic and feeling very lucky. And I think in their mind, they're like, I hope he's interested in me. And you're like, oh, yeah, have been, will be, want to be. Can I give a closing thought on this segment? I have a thought after your thought. Yes. You go first, Wells. Well, so this whole thing is supposed to be about fraternities and sororities, right? like that's the idea which is like a community of people that are coming together and enjoying each other's company and we are at this point don't laugh at me you laugh too uh in our community we used to have these things that like people would like go and join and um like it was it was usually the church right like people would come to the church and then they would drop their kids off and then they would do like church activities or whatever. And, um, it was like this sense of community and that's gone away. Let's be realistic. Like that's just not what's happening in a lot of the communities around here. And I think that the one thing that is cool about sororities and fraternities is that like, it's a sense of community. Everyone wants to feel like they're a part of something. And even though I was kicked out of my fraternity, like it, it was a cool period of my life where I felt like I was a part of something. And so I get it. Like I get the dirty rush thing of it all. And you still, even though you were removed from the fraternity, your friendships today, you still have from that fraternity. you come to my fraternity golf tournament every year that was a statement for you to open it up say yes every year you come to i know that but the listener does you hang out with every sigma chi that i ever hung out with we go to a golf event every year with like 30 people yes from And I love all those people, and half of them were at my wedding. And yes, it's a lovely— The listener does not know that. Sorry. I'm so sorry. We've been drinking. But yeah, it's a lovely community that made me— A lot of people don't get to experience, but even though I was kicked out of this thing, it's still a big part of my life. It's still buddies you've seen for years later. Dean what was your thought? I can give a closing statement now thanks everyone put your mics down I feel like I did a good thing my closing statement wanted to be I think the concept of this podcast is great and I think it's so fun to take a trip down memory lane what I wanted to say was I feel like a piece of shit and a loser from just yesterday my embarrassment and my shame that I feel from yesterday is so big but even going back to college is bigger and stronger than ever, right? So to take a step back to college and remember how maybe like unsure of myself I was or uncertain or not confident or whatever it might've been, especially when I was back in college, I look back at that and I have a lot of gratitude, obviously, for being able to make it out of that. But how I was back then, I was so stupid for lack of a better word. And so when I, when I think about us being in fraternities or you guys being in fraternities or whatever, or the listeners being in sororities, it's such an important aspect of your life, but it's also such a blip on the radar. And it feels like such an old head thing to say, to be like, it's, it doesn't really matter. And of course to you guys, it does, like you just said, your, your fraternity brothers are such a big part of your life. my experience is different because I didn't have that but I look back on those days and you're asking us these questions where it's like how did you feel about this at that point and I'm like well honestly I was just an idiot back then and I think that's the most important in my opinion the most important takeaway to remember that everyone especially the guys in the fraternities are idiots when they're 20 19 to 23 years old they're so stupid at least I was I was so stupid at that age right i still think i'm stupid but i was especially stupid back then and anything that they feel or any way that they act or react to anything you do is so irrelevant and so fucking stupid because those guys are stupid and you shouldn't put much stock into what a guy thinks at you i'm sorry of you at that age because they're a fucking idiot it's a season of development not definition so it doesn't define you but it develops so let's talk about that what is college is college a place where you're supposed to go get higher learning or is college a place where you're supposed to figure out how to live by yourself as a normal i think you learn social skills i think you learn social i couldn't tell you two things i learned that's more important than the like the journalism degree that i got i don't know if i think is as valuable as like i figured out how to do taxes and i figured out how to like deal with people yeah all that stuff and i don't know again it's development it's yeah it's not for so many of us it's such an important four years five years six years whatever dude why are you hating on us yeah but it is it's a i graduated we got through it it's a season and i think there's a lot of mistakes made a lot of stories to be told a lot of embarrassing moments a lot of nights out with the boys now that you can be like you remember when you did that brett that was wild but it isn't who you are today and i think that's always i think that's a lesson that we all have in life, but a hundred percent it's the social skills. We're going to pause here. We'll come back with a second episode with live questions that have been burning on the hearts of some of America's top sorority girls. Hi, it's Joe interesting host of the spirit daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend, Krista Williams. It can change you in the best way possible. Dance with the change, dance with the breakdowns. The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves. So I'm like delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm Clayton Eckerd. In 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one-night stand would end in a courtroom. The media is here. 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