Discovering the Healing Power of Music: Radhika Das on Kirtan, Spirituality, and Emotional Well-Being

Music Saved Me. I'm Lynn Hoffman and this is the Music Saved Me podcast and we are so glad you are here. And by the way, if you're so inclined, I host another podcast called Comedy Saved Me and my sister podcasts, Taken a Walk hosted by Buzz Knight and Taken a Walk Nashville with Sarah Harrelson. They're also great companion music related health podcasts. So I'd love it if you could check them out too. Now imagine being heartbroken in the mountains of Spain and then stumbling upon a circle of people chanting. And in that moment, music becomes medicine. Well, that's exactly what happened to today's guest and it changed the entire course of his life. I'm so lucky. My guest today is Radhika Das, a London based Kirtan artist's Bhakti Yoga teacher and one of the most compelling voices in the global conscious music movement. He's performed to over 38,000 people worldwide in a single year with sold out shows spanning the UK, Europe, North America, Australia, India. And his work has taken him to more than 30 cities and countries, including prestigious venues like the British Museum and London's Union Chapel. He is a popular podcast called For Soul's Sake and a book called Mantra Meditation, the Life Changing Secret of Connection, Joy and Calm. Millions of followers, hundreds of millions of impressions across social media platforms. And now he's bringing his uplifting light to American shores with his brand new EP, Lightfall, and a North American tour that kicks off May 5th, hitting LA, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle and Canada. At a time when the world feels more turbulent than ever, Radhika Das is on a mission to remind us all what music both ancient and timeless can do for the human soul. Radhika Das is next right here on Music Save Me. You're not gonna wanna miss them. This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Yes. Music saved me. Radhika, welcome to Music Save Me. It's so great to meet you. Thank you so much, Lynn. I was so grateful for your introduction. I'm so happy to be here with you. I am happy you are here and I hope our listeners are buckled up because this is gonna be a very enlightening conversation. I can already feel it. Now, I've read that you've been fascinated by music from a very young age and you described stumbling into Kirtan while heartbroken in the mountains of Spain, Kirtan being very chanting. And this type of music hits you like medicine for the very first time. Can you take us back to that moment, kind of describe what it felt like and did you know right then and there that your life had just changed? Yeah, that's a really good question. I think, Lynn, we learn more from rock bottoms than we do from mountain tops. You know, when we're really down and hurt and frustrated with the world, we start to seek answers. We start to try and answer the questions of the moment or the questions of our life. And I needed a moment of kind of being rock bottom, beautiful girlfriend, dumping me over text message while I was in Spain. And I had a moment where I was surrounded by chanting, surrounded by Kirtan. And I had a choice. I either get stuck in with what looked like some crazy music that people were crying and dancing and joyous and meditating to, or I go to my room and try and furiously try to text back my girlfriend who wasn't getting any of my messages because the signal was so crap. And so I decided in that moment to try something different. And I now understand it as being a moment because see by doing the same things again and again expecting different results, that's the definition of insanity. And so I thought to myself, okay, I've got an opportunity to try something quote unquote spiritual or what these people think is spiritual. And so I got stuck in with them. And by the end of it, I was in tears. I felt moved by something greater than myself. I felt some sort of spiritual connection. And I remember just feeling like I'd found something or I'd found something familiar, something that I hadn't yet experienced maybe in this lifetime but something that felt somewhat familiar. And that was a moment for me because it opened me up to the world of spirituality. And so I'm grateful that it did happen all those years ago. And yeah, now it's turned into my life. I never dreamed this would be the case, but here I am somehow or other sharing it, absorbing in it, loving it, and yeah, finding many, many, many more answers in it too. When you realized spirituality, when you understood it more on a different level in your life at that moment, now kind of looking back, do you know why some of us are so afraid to understand that there is something larger than all of us out there or what keeps some of us from understanding that? Yeah, it's interesting that because I think by nature, human beings love comfort and anything that disrupts your usual day-to-day activities, anything that is out of the ordinary that causes some discomfort feels like it's a bad thing. But it's Maya Angelou who said something really powerful. She said, the pain of discomfort, the pain of being involved in something different is uncomfortable, but the pain of regret of not having tried to discover that which is out of the ordinary, that pain is unbearable. So forget about discomfort, what about unbearable? And I think most of us as human beings, we know that there is something beyond, we don't really wanna put a title on it. We sometimes are afraid of what people will think of us if we are overtly believing in God or the divine or a spiritual or a universal consciousness, whatever you wanna call that. I know that people are nowadays not so in the wider world open to talking about that so openly, but there is a huge percentage of us that feels like, no, there's something more, but I just, I'm not quite comfortable to get there yet. And I would encourage people to step into the unknown. I would encourage people to go and discover because life's too short to go out in the dark with a feeling of regret, a feeling of like, I just didn't find the courage to go out of my comfort zone. And so it's very interesting that you're talking about that because I think it's something that I never expected to happen in my life, but I'm very grateful that it did. And I encourage people to do the same that if you're feeling like life isn't going the way that you planned and it's not going the way that you dreamed, then maybe step out of the ordinary, maybe step out of the routine, step out of the comfort zone and then you might find something. It's really, really great advice. It really is. Now, you also combine this with yoga, which I want to get into with you as well because there's something about that as well, just getting in touch with yourself on the inside, looking inward. I think it's another thing as humans have a problem doing, looking into our own self. And there's a saying that I learned a long time ago that I always felt, you know, made sense. And when everything seems so bleak and confusing, I always fall back on it and it makes so much sense and that is life is 10% what happens to you. And I wish I could remember who quoted this, but 90% how you choose to deal with what comes at you from life. For sure, I would agree with that, yeah. And I don't, you know, it's hard to get there sometimes. We're all, there's so much coming at all of us every day. But your new EP, which is very exciting, it's called Lightfall and it was recorded at Bear Creek Studios in Seattle with just a Grammy nominated engineer, Ryan Hadlock who's the guy behind records like the Luminers and Brandy Carlisle, which is really cool. Now, Keertan Music is traditionally long, expansive. I would almost describe it, not like a jam band, but like a jam, a band who's jamming. What was the creative challenge of shaping these ancient chants into songs that work for a modern listener today? Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. People don't want to sit around and meditate for half an hour. That feels like too long, especially when nowadays a reel on Instagram is only a minute and 30 seconds. So to try and capture people's attention towards spirituality and towards a lifeless ordinary, already there's a challenge right there. And I think that nowadays we are a more global audience. We will listen to music even if we don't understand the lyrics and we don't understand the language. But I think that what the challenge for me always is going to be to try and encourage people to listen to music that's gonna be ultimately for their own benefit and not just to encourage them towards materialism, but to encourage them towards spirituality. And to do that in three minutes, I mean, wha, it was a challenge, but Ryan Hadlock who's the producer behind the EP, who is the Grammy nominated, incredible soul that believed in what I was doing. I think the reason why I decided to back him on this project was because he was really invested. He really understood my angle. I think some of my English charm rubbed up on him. And he felt like, okay, this is something. This is something that the world needs, something that the world's looking for. And if we can give it to them in a way that they can almost like a sweet in a medicine, you know, if you can add a little sugar to it and make it sound appealing and try and sing soulfully, I think it'll transmit into the ear and into the heart of people. So it was a challenge, but I think that we kind of got there. I like how you use your British accent to, there is something about that I have to say. You stand up and pay more attention when people have an accent like yours. I don't know why. Us Brits are softies for American accents. So don't worry, it works both ways. Oh really? Oh, I never heard that before. Very cool. Well, the message for right now, the EPs title, Lightfall, and this idea of bringing light into darkness that you've talked about feels very intentional. And it sounds like what you just said it was. When you kind of look at the world right now, Radhika, what draws you to stay rooted in that positive message? Do you ever feel like the weight of what's happening around you? Yeah, no, I totally feel you. We live in an interesting world, that's divided, that's polarized, that's easily negative, and easily swayed towards harm and hate. But I also believe that human beings, when given a chance, can also move towards hope and kindness. You know, you give people half a chance to be kind. You know, London is a little bit more harsh. You know, there was one moment on a train where I was listening to some Curitane music on my AirPods, and the fellow opposite me, he looked at me while I was smiling, and you know, in my own happiness, and he said, what's your problem mate? Brits are quite harsh. But you give people half a chance, and you say, hey, how are you? So nice to meet you, especially the American folk. You know, you're gonna get return with kindness. And I think, you know, the whole point of lightfall for me was reminding people of their joyous, connected, spiritual essence. And you know, when you say what gives me hope, or what gives me the ability to see the light in a world that's filled with darkness, I like to think of the analogy of a candle in a cave. Have you had that one before then? No. Okay, so imagine a cave that's been engulfed in darkness for thousands of years, and all of a sudden someone just brings a little itsy bitsy candle into that cave, and the entire candle will illuminate the entire cave, no matter how small it is. And I think that's what it is, that even if you live in a world that's surrounded by so much harshness and frustration and divisiveness and whatever other words I could come up with, I don't think we'd do it credit, I think a little light goes a long way. And I think that not only do I want the music to shine like that, but I also want to try and develop as a human being to be like that, to whoever I meet, wherever I go, to try and bring a little bit of joy, whatever that might be in my mind, and knowing that it will go a long way, or believing that it will go a long way. And I think that belief has been backed up by all the thousands of people that have come to concert. We did this incredible concert two weeks ago that held 15, almost 15,000 people in chant. And yeah, they were all of different religions and different backgrounds, and coming together to chant with them made me feel like, okay, here's my little piece of light in that cave of perhaps darkness and times, and I hope it's illuminating it. So not only am I a believer in the hope and the light and all that kind of stuff, but I'm also seeing it happen, that if you can somehow be an ambassador for love and peace, we've got ambassadors for different countries, but what about an ambassador for love and peace? Then if it's done relevantly and charmingly, and nicely presented, I don't see why it wouldn't work. I couldn't agree with you more. And be the light is basically what you're trying to portray through your music, and the chanting. I can't even imagine the goosebumps and the feeling it is when you have that many people all together chanting at the same time. It must be unbelievable. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's... What does it feel like to you when you're motivating all of this to happen, when you feel that, when you get that back from the people listening to you and that feeling, what is going for your mind? I feel like I was, I feel like it's what I was born to do. It feels very natural. And see, I get nervous like any human being, given the particular circumstance, like I get nervous when I have to file taxes because I'm not so good at numbers. Everybody. Yeah, right? Yeah. But you know, when you're in your element, like you in a podcast, it is clear, like you were born to do this, you're born to be in front of a microphone, you're born into be in front of a camera and lights, and you feel natural in that environment. And I feel the same. I feel like when you're in front of that many thousands of people, even though, yes, it's known that the number one fear of most people is to be on stage and to publicly speak. I feel like I'm very natural then, I feel I can be myself. I don't have to be duplicitous. Like this is me in my presenter mode. And when I'm at home with my kids and my wife, then I'm a completely different person. So it feels very natural. I would say that's the first thing that comes to mind. And the second thing it makes me feel is, can I say the G word on this podcast? I don't even know what you're referring to, but... Oh, of course. You can say anything on this podcast. I feel close to God. I feel like, you know, have I seen God? No, not in the way that I dream, but I feel like the presence or the handprints of God and divinity in my life are very, very present. And that happens a lot on stage. It feels when I'm in a kind of motive to be an instrument of service, an instrument of grace, then I feel really close to what I think God is. That is so special. And it's coming right through you, going out to all of those people. And it's such a gift that you want to share, which is so important too. I mean... Try my best. We'll be right back with more of the Music Saved Me podcast. Welcome back to the Music Saved Me podcast. One of the tracks is called, and I hope I'm saying it correctly, Sita Ramajaya. Amazing. Is that right? Yeah. It's a chant of the divine names, Sita and Rama. For someone who's never experienced Kirtan before, how would you explain what happens when you chant those names specifically, and what does it do to you and to a room? And I suspect it's similar to what we just discussed. Yeah. But more. Yeah, Kirtan, it comes from the root word, Kirt, which means to praise or to glorify. And the idea is that you're praising and glorifying something higher than yourself. Nowadays, we only glorify people when they get a promotion at work. You only glorify and praise people when they've done something good for the world. Maybe you sing their praises on their bed. No one is rude to another person on their bed. You only say all the good things that you notice about them. But when was the last time we took time out to glorify, to praise, to celebrate the spiritual? And so Kirtan does just that. And it only takes a few minutes to learn. It's not really that difficult. You might even look at it from the outskirts when you look on my YouTube channel, you might be like, oh, this is kind of like karaoke, right? And it kind of feels like that at times. But the meanings of the syllables and the lyrics, they are divine by nature. And they create emotions that make you feel happy and make you feel peaceful and make you feel ecstatic and make you feel reflective and sit around Jaya is a beautiful chant that literally means, Sita means the divine feminine that brings about compassion in your heart. Rama means the reservoir of joy, the source of happiness. And Jaya means hallelujah to that, glory to that, victory to that. And so when you're chanting sit around Jaya, even though, okay, I'll be honest with you, that particular track, it's meant to get you grooving and dancing and not what you'd expect from a spiritual track. It's very much a groovy, upbeat, dance worthy, when you're in your pajamas in the morning, slap it on and get you in a good mood kind of song. I still think that, yeah, regardless of how it's presented musically, the syllables have an effect on the consciousness. Let me give you an example. This might still not be landing for you and your audience, but imagine if I asked you to sit here and chant, I don't know, Coca-Cola. And I told you to just sit there and chant, Coca-Cola, Coca-Cola, Coca-Cola, Coca-Cola, Coca-Cola. Eventually you start to think of that item, you start to consider what the taste is like. You might get a bit of an image of what the brand looks like. And eventually you'll be like, I need to hit some of that Coca-Cola. I'm getting thirsty. There you go. So in the same way, when you chant sit around Jaya, at the beginning you may not even know what's going on, but sometimes just being with the syllables, being with that sound vibration, you might start grooving, you might start moving, you might start internally shifting towards a lifeless ordinary. And you'll think, oh my God, that was easy. Just takes a minute to learn. And it's done a world of good, it's done more than I expected in my heart. And that's the idea behind Kirtan and that particular chant. I hope they explained it well. Yes, it did actually even more so than what I read. Oh, amazing. And it's beautiful. And it doesn't really matter what's ailing you, personally or professionally or spiritually, it touches you in myriad ways, which is really incredible. And it's not polarizing music either. It's something that, it's kind of indescribable almost. Some of the things that people get fearful of when it comes to this particular music is, is it gonna convert me? And I'm gonna tell you right now, no, it's not meant to. There's nothing to convert you to. Well, to happiness. Right, it's gonna transform you. To feel good. It's gonna change your consciousness, your awareness. But in a way that's gonna just bring you towards an elevated state of awareness. And I'd say that that's what we're looking for. You know, why do you drink a cup of coffee? Cause you're trying to change your consciousness. You're trying to wake up, you're trying to be alert, you're trying to be with it. Why do you go and do that workout? Yes, cause you wanna look good, you wanna transform the body, but you also wanna transform the sluggish mind. You wanna get out, you wanna get the endorphins popping around the body. So in the same way, I'd recommend someone that's approaching this music for the first time to do it with that feeling of, this is gonna be good for my heart. This is gonna be good for my mind. This is gonna be good for my consciousness. And I think it does just that. This has changed my life, it's transformed my life. And I wanted to do it for everyone. And what made you decide that you had to share this with the world when you first learned about it? What was that moment where you were like, this is what I'm gonna do with this? I think it was just the response from people in general. Like I remember when I first came across this, I decided I wanted to share it. And the first time I ever shared it, you'll be off at this now. I remember it was a room in London, which would ordinarily hold, I don't know, about 100 people. And I'd convince my friends, my fellow band members to join me on the promise of a free vegan burger at the end of it, cause I had no money at the time. And we're sitting at the front, four or five of us ready to perform, ready to share, and the room's empty. And it hits 10 past seven, 20 past seven, half past seven, 30, no one's come. And I'm like, you know what guys, let's just start. You know, we'll just, we'll sing to the walls. We'll sing to our God. We'll sing to divinity to, let's just, let's just, let's just start. So we start sharing, we start singing Kirtan in a call and response fashion. And then all of a sudden the door cracks open and one lady pops her head in and she looks and there's only four of us at the front and she does a serious, slow closing of the door to try and back away. I was like, no, no, no, no, come inside. Come, come, come, come, come and sit down. Come sit down and be with us. So she nervously comes and sits at the front. She gets her cushion, her bolster and she's sitting there and she's like swaying. And then I close my eyes and then I open my eyes and then she's lying down on the floor. I'm like, okay, this is interesting. And then I kept singing and I was like, okay, you know, maybe we need to get a bit more up tempo with this. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna get a bit more exuberantly and joyfully. And then before you know it, I open my eyes and she's gone. And so then I thought, wow, this is, I don't know if people are ready for this. I don't know if people really want this. But something in me, I don't know whether it was intuition, whether it was some sort of like spiritual guide or whether it was, I don't know what it was, but something kept telling me, keep going. And so that one person that backed out of the room turned into 10 people, turned into 100, turned into a thousand, turned into 10,000, turned into 15,000. And it's getting to a point where it's obvious that the world needs this, that it's not based on a particular caste, culture, creed, religion, no, come as you are and walk away feeling like something's shifted. Well, that's an amazing story. And you know, it's very familiar though. A lot of artists starting out, play to empty rooms. And I think you had the right, obviously, attitude to continue and to push forward. So you listen to your instinct, which I think is another thing that we all, it's really what you help us to do with what you're doing. That's right, probably. Is to hear our inner voice. And a lot of times we don't listen to that as much as we should. And like you said too earlier, repeating the same thing is the definition of. Insanity. Insanity because you're never gonna get the same, you're always gonna get the same outcome. So all of this is connected. It's so cool because you're headlining in cities like New York, Chicago, LA, Seattle. This is a big deal. And you've built this from, as you mentioned, intimate chanting sessions in London into sold out weekly shows and then major events and international venues. When you walk into a room, say in Chicago or San Francisco, places that aren't really traditional, like the one that's called Bakhti Strongholds. And you watch people surrender to something that they may have never encountered before. What, how does that make you feel? Especially these big cities. I may have asked this before, but this is different because you're really going into uncharted territory. It's definitely uncharted territory. And I think it's a really good question. I would say it makes me feel overwhelmingly hopeful. See, if one person walks away from that experience and even if it doesn't transform their life, but it creates a reaction of one act of loving kindness, if it just creates one act of loving kindness out of a reaction of that concert, I'd say that that's a domino effect that's gonna change many lives. You know, we just sometimes don't know how one sentence of kindness and love in the direction of it, even a stranger, can completely change. There was one situation I was in India. This is a crazy story where I went to a temple and this person had no idea who I was. It wasn't like a celebrity fan moment, nothing like that. But they asked me very kindly. They said, can I speak to you? And I said, yeah, sure, sure. What's up? And they revealed to me that this was the day that they were going to contemplate taking their own life. And I was in shock. And I didn't know quite what to do. I just gave them a tight hug. I sat with them and I bought them breakfast. And I spent half a day with that person. And the next day I saw that person still living and happy. And I don't know where that person is now. I didn't keep in contact with that person. But I just believe in the power of one act of random loving kindness that if you face yourself in front of someone that clearly needs some love, clearly needs some just to arm around the shoulder, just a word or a sentence that will shift them away from perhaps doing something that they're going to regret in the future. Then I feel like that's going to create ripple effects far beyond what we can ever understand. And so how it makes me feel when I'm in front of uncharted territory is here are 1,000 people, 2,000 people. I don't know how many people there'll be in Chicago. But however many there are, this is an opportunity for me to encourage people to walk out into the world and be agents of change in whatever way that looks like. It doesn't need to be big. It doesn't need to be in front of a microphone. It doesn't need to be legislative. It doesn't need to be that they need to run for a political party. That's not what I'm looking for. Just that they go home and they're loving with their wife, loving with their husband, loving with their children, loving with their neighbor. And that might be the domino effect that creates something much wider in scale. And so it brings me great hope. That's what makes me feel. To be the best version of yourself. Yeah. It's not a big request. And I think it's going to save others. That's the reason I'm on this podcast. I was going to say to you, I was just about to say that your whole premise is the same premise of why Buzz and I got together to even do these series of podcasts. Because even if one person listening right now is like, ooh, this sounds like something for me. And they come see you. And then all of a sudden, their life changes for the better. And this whole conversation was worth it for one person. And it's just, it's an amazing feeling. And even deeper than that, one of my teachers said it really beautifully, that we need to plant seeds for trees under whose shade we do not wish to sit. So what we're doing, what you're doing with this podcast and what I'm trying to do with my music is to plant seeds for trees that will grow under whose shade we'll never sit. We'll never know. We'll never know whether that person actually made a difference in their life, made a change in their life. I'm sure you've met so many people that listen to the podcast that will give you the feedback, wow, that really moved me. And that really changed and shifted something for me. And so that gives you encouragement. And in the same way when people tell me about my music doing that, gives me encouragement, OK, looks like I found my way to serve others. I found my way to love others. I will never ever meet maybe again. So here we go. Agents of change. Agents of change. I love it. That almost sounds like it could be a movie. And we could wear a cape. Let's sign a contract. No, I don't. You've been doing this, Radhika, for over 16 years now. And I'm sure it just feels like yesterday, because everything to me just feels like yesterday. Like, I'm just getting started right now. How is this possible? Yeah, right. For sole sake, you have a podcast. And you talk about all wonderful things like what we're talking about here and more. And now with this new chapter with Lightfall, where is Radhika Das going? And what does music still have left to save? Wow, those are two massive questions. Where am I going? I don't know. I hope I'm going on a journey of inner self-discovery to better myself and try and better those around me and serve those around me. But what does that look like tangibly? I want to be acknowledged, or rather not me specifically, but I want the music and the genre of music that I'm presenting to be acknowledged as a real mainstream way in which people can change hearts and change consciousness. We know about substances. We know about exercise. And we know about changing your social circles. And we know about the 4 AM club and ice baths and whatnot. And all of these things have come in the last 10 years. People are talking more and more about the different ways in which lifestyle can affect your mind and your awareness. And if this music can be another acclaimed and known way to really help people, then I feel like that would be my life's swan song. I'd be like, all right, cool. I did my job. And if not, then I'll pass on the baton to someone who can take it that far. And then the second question you asked me was around saving. What did you ask again? What was that? What do you think music still has left to save? In one sense, there's nothing, because all chords are used. And creatively, I don't think there's really much more out. It's going to be a regurgitation of the old. They say that if you really want to really cool new idea, then read some really old books. I think it's going to be the same with music. If you want to get some new ideas, you've got to go back in time, because a lot of it's been done in some shape or form. And so I think in that sense, I don't think there's really much that is saved or left. But I think that what is and can be presented is how music can lift you above and beyond a life of ordinary frustrations. I think that that's important to acknowledge that, yeah, we've got a playlist. OK, let me put it this way. You've got a playlist for when you're in love. You've got a playlist for when you're cooking. You've got a playlist for when you're driving. You've got a playlist for when you're at the gym. But what about the playlist for the soul? And so I think that that's what's left to come out. I think it's coming. I think we're on a wave of something. We're hearing more and more Hillsong. We're hearing more and more devotional tracks out there. We're seeing Shawn Mendes in front of a harmonium. We're seeing Coldplay presenting spiritual messaging in their concerts. I think it's coming. I think Simon's coming. Watch the space. You know what? I can hear it now. And this year's best new artist Grammy Award goes to Kirtan Radhika Doss. Thank you so much. I do. We've seen a lot of genres come up through the years and be recognized. And this is definitely one to watch and grow with. And it seems to be extremely healthy in so many ways. So great. So grateful to you for giving it a platform. Thank you so much for having me on here. Let me ramble on in my beautiful English accent. Oh my god, you could talk to me all day. In fact, you want to record my outgoing message on the phone? That would be great. I'd love to. We can chant it together. Thank you so much, Radhika, for coming on the show and sharing your story. And best of luck to you with the tour and the podcast for soul's sake. The book called Mantra Meditation, the Life Changing Secret of Connection, Joy, and Calm, and everything that you're doing. And I hope you come back and check in with us from time to time and let us know what's new in your world. 100%. I'll always on SiouxCole. Thank you so much. And if you want to find out more, just check out radhika.com. It's all there. I'm Buzz Knight, and thanks for listening to Lynn Hoffman and the Music Save Me podcast, produced by Buzz Night Media Productions. Please check out our other shows, Taken a Walk Nashville, hosted by Sarah Harrelson, Comedy Save Me, hosted by Lynn Hoffman, and Taken a Walk, hosted by yours truly. All shows are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and are part of the iHeart podcast network.