Incomplete Records: University of North Carolina, Domestic Research Oversight, and the Limits of What We Know

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast. This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. This episode is brought to you by Angel Studios, home of the documentary Thank You, Dr. Fauci. Head over to angel.com to watch and learn more about this story. so it's been an interesting year in the sense that very very little has happened and we can divide new we can divide recent events into two categories so one would be scientific publications where there also hasn't been very much and then the other side of that would be investigative activities on behalf of or outside of government. This episode starts with a weird reality. Almost nothing new has happened. And sometimes, that silence is the story. Jenner First sits down with two scientists who know what the evidence can prove and what institutions tend to do when it can't. Neil Harrison of Columbia University and returning guest Bryce Nichols from Rutgers. Together, they break down what's actually changed, what hasn't, and why so many of the most important records there are still don't add up. Let's start with scientific papers that have been published. Before you came on, we were doing a humorous bit where we sort of took the other side of the argument, and we were trying to sell each other on the official narrative. And basically, we didn't get very far before it became obvious that the official story is kind of ridiculous in terms of how weak it is. What's interesting is that not very much has been added to the official narrative. The one significant paper that has come out, so what tends to happen is that the dominant group, international team, as they call themselves, has published another paper. So they published in May of 2025. And the first author is, again, Picard. So there's a Picard 2021, there's Picard 2022, which was around the epidemiology related to the Huanan market. And then there's Picard 2025. So this is sort of an attempt to roll up phylogenetic information from a number of teams that have contributed to the overall international team. So what they've done is to take all of the bat sarbicovirus sequences that were originally available, and then by collaborating with a number of people across the world, they've added dozens and dozens more virus sequences. the conclusions are that viruses evolve. So this is obviously an important conclusion, but I think we would agree that this is something that we perhaps already knew. More specifically, they showed from their existing database, and then supplemented by the more recent data that they added, they showed that viruses in this particular group, coronaviruses, evolve by a process called recombination, where they swap small pieces of viruses in and out between different viruses in a way that creates viruses that have this so-called mosaic appearance to their RNA. By mosaic, you mean like little pieces of, you know, little fur and cleavage sides and, and other things like that. Yeah, so leaving aside, we'll leave aside the fear and cleavage side, but let's just say that you started out, let's say evolution started with a red virus and a blue virus and a yellow virus and a green virus. What recombination does is create these mosaic viruses so that you have a long stretch of red, then you have a little piece of blue, and then you might have a yellow piece and a green piece, and so you end up with this mosaic appearance. to the genetics of viruses as they evolve. And this process of recombination occurs in reservoir species such as the horseshoe bats that they have studied for many, many years. So these are conclusions that are not exactly new, and I would say not exactly earth-shattering. What it has done is it shifted their molecular clock. So the clock, the evolutionary clock that enables them to time the emergence of the most recent common ancestor to SARS-CoV-1 and SARS-CoV-2, that clock has been moved upwards, so closer to the present day, So they now believe that the most recent ancestor to these viruses emerged maybe five to ten years ago, whereas originally they were looking further back to 20 or 30 years before it actually emerged in Wuhan. The other conclusion that they make is quite interesting, and I think there are many moments in this story where the virology community says something and the rest of us go, duh, because they say something that is really of extraordinarily obviousness. obviousness. So what they've shown is, from their phylogenetic data, is that these viruses circulated in bats for hundreds of years, possibly millennia, thousands of years. And then this was all occurring in a very restricted geographic location. So some of these viruses come from Yunnan province, which is near, so this is Kunming, which is in the southwest of China. and some of them come from Laos, which is further south in Asia. And there also are sarbicoviruses that come from the very eastern part of China. What they show in this paper, perhaps not for the first time, is that there's a long distance, geographical distance, between Yunnan province or Laos and Wuhan, where the virus apparently emerged in the human population. And the conclusion that they make in their paper is that the virus moved with extraordinary speed from Yunnan province and Laos. Like a bullet train or something like that, like some kind of new way of travel, a spaceship. It's almost as though the viruses were transported to Wuhan. In a vial, maybe? In some kind of scientific specimen? It's almost as though they were transported in some way that did not involve bats. Right. Or a very fast bat. Fast bat. No, no, no. So they've ruled out bats. Bats are not flying from Yunnan province to Wuhan. They're not flying from Laos to Wuhan. And it's not a raccoon dog that's flying commercial or maybe a pangolin flying private. It could be a raccoon dog that moves at lightning speed. Right. They're very fast. They are. Extremely fast. It would be a greyhound version. It's a raccoon greyhound. Yeah, we got to come up with a, or whip it. Yeah, it's a whip it. Yeah. Yeah. So to kind of summarize this, Neil, this is just another piece of, for lack of a better term, junk science, like science that is just seeking a hypothesis, that has a hypothesis that's seeking an end result that affirms a narrative that is very hard to prove. It is goal-seeking science, yeah. So even though it's published in Cell, I would say that this is really performative. It is not... Pedestrian, you mean? It is turning the handle. It's not a very compelling piece of work. So there's nothing maybe wrong with what's in the paper. It's that it doesn't provide any useful insight into the origin of SARS-CoV-2. And the fact that people would apply it to that question is the problem. Technically correct, but lacking in novel insights. And this is also, just to be clear for people listening, this is the same group of people, as you've pointed out, that were sort of evangelical about the wet market and have continued, instead of, you know, denouncing what they did, instead of saying, hey, you know, we got this wrong. they continue to write papers that are seeking this, to affirm this narrative that makes very little sense to any people who have looked at the rest of the data. So I think it's become an irreversible journey for this group of people that their careers are now inextricably tied to these papers and they can't take them back. Just like our careers are inexplicably tied to But thank you, Dr. Fauci. And we can't take that back. It's like the never ending story. Right, Bryce? I mean, they're on that dog, that raccoon dog flying through the sky. They just can't get off the dog. That's a great analogy. It's a bat dog. Yeah, it's a bat dog pangolin flying through the sky. You can't get off of it. Once you get on it, it's over. So basically that, I think, is all the new data that there is. There are no new data. So I want to give you two analogies to the emergence of COVID. The first is a historical analogy, and the second is something that happened literally just a few weeks ago. So let's talk about the modern analogy first, which happened just a few weeks ago. So I think this happened in November or December, those months again. And this happened in Spain, or to be more specific, in Catalonia. This is the region in the area of Barcelona. So we all know, I think, that in Spain, pigs are a big business, because the Spanish and the Catalans are very fond of jamón. If you go to Spain or if you go to Barcelona, you can have marvelous ham, a variety of different types of ham. There are lots of pigs, and there are pig diseases, which are a big problem for the industry. And because of that, there are actually labs that study pig diseases. And of course, in this case, we're talking about viruses in many cases. And the viruses of particular interest to the pig industry not only in places like the Midwestern United States but also in Spain are respiratory viruses and particularly something that we would refer to as swine flu or pig flu pig influenza In November or December, there was a sudden event that happened very close to Barcelona, where not only pigs on some of the farms around Barcelona, but also wild boar. So the wild boar and the pigs sort of intermingle a little bit. So the wild boars are feral. And because they're quite close evolutionarily to pigs, they suffer from some of the same diseases, including the swine flu. So suddenly the farmers in this region of Catalonia started noticing that they had some dead pigs. And they also found that there were some wild boar in the same area that had died. And they started to do autopsies on the pigs and boar to discover what had happened. And they discovered that there had been an outbreak of swine flu in this region. This was of interest to local journalists. So you know how journalists are. They never think about the science. So the journalists just, they happened to notice that the wild boar and the pigs were found a few hundred yards away from a lab. And that lab happens to be one that studies pig diseases, including swine flu. And so, of course, being journalists and not really thinking about science, they said, well, maybe it came from the lab. Well, nonsense, obviously. That's impossible, isn't it? I mean, viruses cannot come from laboratories. It's impossible. So the regional government immediately put a statement out that they believed that the virus, that they said there's no virus in Catalonia. And so the virus had to come from another region outside of Catalonia. Very familiar, very familiar technique. Yeah, and then the Spanish government said, oh, no, no, no, not in España. It must have come from France or some other part of the EU or elsewhere in the Schengen area. You know about the Schengen area, right? No, what's the Schengen area? The Schengen area is a larger economic area that cooperates with the EU. So you can blame someone in the Schengen area for your pig disease without having to point the finger at any of the EU countries. So they said, I probably came from somewhere in the Schengen area. And The Guardian actually dutifully reported this. They suggested that it may have come in on a ham sandwich. oh the old ham sandwich route so there was a ham sandwich mechanism of course ham by the way yeah wouldn't it be a jamón it would be it would be a torta de jamón okay just see i like accuracy on these podcasts i just yeah yeah so apologies now now there was a there's a love for ham that spans decades because apparently wasn't nixon afraid of a ham sandwich and he immediately got vaccinated because of a swine flu traveling on likely a ham sandwich and not sort of a lab release that could have threatened the human population. It makes perfect sense to Americans because we know that if you have a grand jury investigation, then they would immediately indict the ham sandwich. The ham sandwich. Yeah. Yeah. That's the old, that's the way this country works is if you can't indict a ham sandwich, you should get out of this business. And I've reached out Ham Sandwich to try to get the ham sandwich to come on my podcast, and it has so far refused to join me. Yeah. So anyway, so ham sandwich mechanism, right? Rice, I'm sorry. I think it's because you have enough ham that it feels like it would be overshadowed by the ham that's already there. So I just had to kind of put that in there that there's too much ham in the room for that ham sandwich to feel like a star. While we're hamming. So the ham sandwich mechanism was suggested for this, but unfortunately for the local government, some of the scientists involved in the region actually had some integrity. And so they were able to not only to sequence the virus that they isolated from the boar and the pigs, but they were able to get that information out, specifically that the sequence of the swine flu virus that they isolated from the pigs and the wild boar matched exactly to, what do they call it, the reference strain. It was like the Georgia strain, the Georgia 2007 strain. Yeah, so it was the so-called reference strain. And when they say reference strain, what that means is the standard version that all labs use. This virus is not one that was in circulation in wild pig populations, in agricultural pig populations, or in the wild boar populations. This strain came from a lab. And of course, the journalists were then able to talk to the local vets and public health people and say, well, here's the lab and here's the virus that came from a lab and they're right next door to each other. And so unlike what happened in Wuhan, and perhaps unlike what might happen in the United States, the regional police went straight in to the lab to investigate. They have not publicized their findings, but I think it's a safe assumption that regional authorities are now accepting that this virus that was released into the pig and wild boar populations in Catalonia actually originated in this lab. So in Wuhan, of course, Warabee was looking at the motion of human beings in a city with a very large transit system. The pigs, as far as we know, don't have a subway system just outside Barcelona. And they also don't move, they don't tend to move particularly quickly. Wait, wait a minute. Wait a minute. So- Hamstrung, we both had it, yes. We do know about when pigs fly. And in this instance- That's true. Pigs have flown. They've flown from Georgia, potentially, to the Catalonia region. Possibly. Carrying a ham sandwich. Carrying a ham sandwich as an offering to the people there from the Shangu region. They were originally, they actually went to the Shangu region first, right? And then they came there. If the glove don't fit, you must acquit. Right, Bryce? I agree. I think this is a really good starting point for the sequel to the Thank You, Dr. Fauci. Also, this is like that we've have pigs involved in some mass conspiracy, possibly involving undergone travel as well as like air travel. Yeah, I think we could play this interview uncut and grab the intention of the entire world based on the entertainment value here, just between the three of us. I think we've got it. So the ham sandwich mechanism is interesting because not only does the ham sandwich mechanism, it's ridiculous, obviously, and wrong, but it's reminiscent of the frozen food explanation. Oh, right. Yes. There was a frozen fish explanation for COVID that was floated by the Chinese government, and it didn't really last very long. And then the frozen fish, The idea, it came from somewhere else on the frozen fish to the market. Which Lena Chan referred to as the fish popsicle. Is that what she called it? Popsicle origins. Popsicle. Yeah. So I want to just bring us into a groundedness. We can do a grounded exercise, sort of a breathing exercise. But I think inhaling rather to keep things connected. I want to really spend some time because I want to dedicate it to the Greenspring theory and really setting up the idea that one of the most explosive facts that we may never learn and that our own government, despite its claims of disclosure and that all these things are going to be made available and declassified. This one damning piece of information, the origin, sort of echoes like the Epstein files. Like it's not something that anyone in this administration or anyone in a position of power would really want declassified because the origin could be far too damning to ever acknowledge. which in theory right now a possible origin is here in the United States. And that out of one of our laboratories, the few handful of laboratories that could have had a sample of this working prototype virus, that there was a leak and that it was really here that the original contagion kind of began. So could you tell us what you know about that and what's been interesting for you as that debate has gone on? Right. So this is one of those things where you get deported immediately if you talk about it. Let's try and connect some dots. So these are different dots that may or may not necessarily be connected. but there hasn't been any real attempt to determine whether they're connected or not. So one of the dots is that in the summer of 2019, there were outbreaks of respiratory infection in some retirement communities. And there were two retirement communities in particular that are in Fairfax County, Virginia. Although it is far from unusual to have outbreaks of respiratory infection in retirement communities or communities that are in part nursing homes, these are not unusual, but they usually occur in the winter. So they're usually associated with things like influenza and common cold or what we call rhinovirus. And so you would start generally to see these things in November, and then the peak season would be December through February, and then they would start disappearing in the spring. What was unusual about this particular outbreak is that it happened in, I think this was July of 2019. It wouldn't be unusual to have viral outbreaks, but they would probably be gastrointestinal viruses, rotaviruses, things like that, can move very quickly through retirement communities and can cause severe illness and death. But it's unusual to have symptoms of respiratory infections move quickly through a retirement community in the summer And what interesting about the epidemiology of these outbreaks in the Virginia communities is that they if you read the descriptions of what actually happened the timing and the extent of illness and hospitalization and death, was really quite similar to what subsequently happened when the virus arrived in Washington State on the West Coast. So there were outbreaks in King County, just outside Seattle, and in Snohomish County. There's also sort of exurbs of Seattle. And those outbreaks were centered around a couple of retirement communities. Many of the residents became ill, and several of them died. And the descriptions of the illness and the spread within the community, the descriptions are all very, very similar between the Greenspring community, which is located in Fairfax County, Virginia, and those retirement communities that were in the news in Washington state in January and February of 2020. And just to help people, Neil, not to break your flow, but to help people see the connection that the outbreak in Washington state feels very logical if you look at the Wuhan military games as a super spreader and that teams traveling from that location to Wuhan and back may have carried the virus with them and infected that local area. But what is so kind of explosive about the Greenspring theory is it's two months prior, over two months prior, and that in addition to that, it kind of completely turns the whole origin discussion on its head because if it originated or if those symptoms, let's just say if those symptoms are similar and they occurred in July in Virginia, it would mean that the Wuhan military games was potentially a second wave or China was even a second chapter in the origin story and not the first chapter. And that is, I think, a really explosive theory. So continue about what the connections were to Green Spring geographically to other areas that may have been working on the virus. Right. So just to add a little bit to what we know about Greenspring is that the county, so Virginia obviously is a very big state, and so public health is divided up into counties. And the Fairfax County Department of Health actually was the primary agency that was responsible for looking into that outbreak. And I think that they did call in the CDC at some point. And so this was July of 2019 and August of 2019 that the investigations were going on. And there was a second outbreak that occurred at another retirement facility that was just a few miles down the road. I think that was in Burke, Virginia. So these places are all quite close together. The analysis that they did showed that it almost certainly was not an outbreak of influenza. So they weren't able to identify influenza virus in the patients from Greenspring. And what they did find was some patients who had rhinovirus. In other words, there were patients who were harboring viruses associated with the common cold. But of course, this is not surprising because those viruses are always in circulation, and not just in the winter, but also in the summer. Really, the analysis of the viruses present was it was a non-finding. They didn't really find anything. In retrospect, it wouldn't be surprising that they didn't find coronavirus because they weren't looking for coronavirus. Nobody knew about the new coronavirus, and although it's known that there are common colds that are associated with coronaviruses. Those types of coronaviruses are quite different from SARS-CoV-2. So what I'm saying is they wouldn't have detected SARS-CoV-2 unless they were looking for it. And of course, there would be no reason to do so in July and August of 2019. Nevertheless, somebody has those samples, right? Those samples probably exist somewhere in a freezer at the Fairfax County Department of Health. So if anybody wanted to look at them, presumably they could do so, but nobody's done it. Okay, so originally, I think a lot of people were struck by the similarities between the Greenspring outbreak and those subsequent outbreaks that occurred, not just in Washington state, but the outbreaks that occurred in retirement communities in other places. So there were concentrations of retired people in Wuhan that had a lot of infections, hospitalizations, and deaths. And then the same thing happened in northern Italy. So a couple of cities in northern Italy, for example, Bergamo, had very, very large older age populations, and they were hit extremely hard during the COVID outbreak. So this association between concentrations of retirements or retirement communities and very severe outbreaks is something that we've seen in many places. So it didn't make much sense that suburban Virginia would have an outbreak. And then a few people began to realize that there are actually facilities that study viruses that are very close by. So there is a DOD establishment called Fort Belvoir, and Fort Belvoir is located very, very close, within two or three miles of Greenspring. If there were viruses that were being studied within the general vicinity, we already know that healthcare workers are a very good vector for viruses to get into retirement communities from the general environment. So we don't know what, if any, relevant viruses are worked on at Fort Belvoir. We do know that Fort Dietrich in Maryland, which is probably about, I don't know, 50, 60 miles away, that Fort Dietrich had people working on coronaviruses. Again, we don't know which specific coronaviruses and what those programs were, but there are actually links between the programs at Fort Dietrich and Fort Belvoir that most people aren't aware of. And there were some people that worked at both institutions and also had connections with a naval medical research unit that's based at Quantico. And the Naval Medical Research Unit, or NAMRU, is interesting to COVID origins followers because Namru has a research location in Singapore, and it's just down the road from Duke, NUS. So these are all dots, right? And I'm not connecting the dots. It's curious that the US DOD had this strong interest in coronaviruses, and they were looking for coronaviruses in places where the closest relatives of SARS-CoV-2 were identified. There's another interesting thing that you bring up here. Is that a conspiracy theory? Well, that's the C word. And here in America, the C word is a very, very bad word, probably worse than the F word. of fraud. But I would say that the thing that is interesting to make another connection is by August of 2019, Fort Detrick, U.S. Amerit at Fort Detrick had been shut down. And this is something that Ebright believes is the result of many, many violations and safety concerns that happened over a long period of time. But the CDC, after all of this, you know, it isn't until August 2019 that that facility is shut down. And if you were to expand your sort of, quote, conspiracy dragnet here, you would ask yourself, why is the event, this potential leak or contagion so close to the shutdown and you've already identified that contractors were working. There was a connection between both facilities and this facility is shut down right around the time that if the CDC or others were detecting an outbreak, this is a suspicious timing for the shutdown of that infamous facility. Tell me about sort of that. You have a lot of questions about that. And these are questions ultimately for potentially Dr. Robert Redfield, because he was presiding over the CDC at that time. The CDC was the one who ultimately shut down U.S. Amarillo. So tell me more about that connection. So nobody has explained why Fort Detrick was closed down in August? Well, maybe he hasn't explained in as much detail as you'd like, right? Yeah, I think he did comment on that recently. So there are people who clearly know all of the available details of why Fort Detrick was closed down, but we haven't. That hasn't been shared publicly. Maybe you should get, you know, call to action, get more information about the Fort Detrick closure. Right. This is a good opportunity for anyone who's a whistleblower to come out into the light and risk being assassinated for telling us why Fort Detrick was closed at that time. Or maybe the government just will do it. Oh, of course. The government loves transparency. Favorite thing. There is another Fort Detrick story that became available in the last 12 months or so, which as far as we know, it doesn't have anything to do with COVID, but it is alarming. So the Spanish swine flu leak that I talked about, that was a BSL-3 lab. And so if it turns out, as I think is pretty obvious, that the swine flu virus in the pigs and wild boar in Catalonia came from the lab, that means that a BSL-3 lab leaked. Now, that would be by far not the first time that BSL-3 institutions have been shown to leak. And that's important because we know that the part of the Wuhan Institute of Virology was BSL-3 or even BSL-2, where they were doing coronavirus work. BSL-3 work is pretty common across the United States. the very highest level of security, the BSL-4, so this is the one where everything is done, you know through a glove box and everybody is wearing the moon suits and then they have to shower in and shower out etc etc So the BSL is the highest level of containment for virus work And there is a BSL famously at Fort Detrick for work on extremely dangerous materials like Ebola virus and so on. So that was part of what was called the Intramural Research facility, the IRF, which is a part of NIH that was seconded to the Fort Detrick campus. So in other words, there was part of the NIAID, so Fauci's Institute, had a lab specifically at Fort Detrick doing work as part of what they called the intramural research facility. So part of the NIH's program, but on a DOD campus. And this was actually closed down. So this specific lab was closed down with some fanfare, actually, by RFK Jr. And Rand Paul was also there. And Jay Bhattacharya was also there. So there was a photo op at... I thought Kristi Noam was also. Maybe. So there was a photo op at Fort Detrick of them closing that facility. And the reasons for that facility being closed were actually quite, when they actually leaked out to the press, were quite alarming. And it turned out that there was a group of contractors that were doing BSL-4 work there. and apparently there was some kind of love triangle or something that was going on. One of the virologists apparently was spurned by another virologist and then their response was to cut holes in the moon suit and so there was a potential danger of people being infected in the BSL-4. And if you can read this story, So a lot of the information is publicly available. It's very alarming that that kind of work is going on in a really sort of unstable environment involving organisms at the BSL-4 containment level. This is also another one of these ham sandwich scenarios where it's been used before. Wasn't there a lover's triangle, a quarrel that resulted in a murder with a laboratory that was allegedly handling a similar virus sample? But nothing escaped as far as we know. 2020 case involving a scientist, Chinese scientist in the U.S. was determined by police to be a murder-suicide stemming from a dispute over an intimate partner. Dr. Bing Liu, a research assistant at the Pittsburgh School of Medicine, was found dead in his home in Pennsylvania in May of 2020. Were they working with a virology work going on? Local police in the U.S. explicitly stated that there was zero evidence linking the event to his work, which included research on COVID-19. Oh, boy. Here we go. The incident was purely a personal matter between two men. Whatever the truths of these individual situations might be, I think the collective impact of these stories is that perhaps we should all be a little bit more concerned about people with interpersonal and anger management issues handling dangerous viruses. So, you know, Bryce and I have talked about this a few times, about the anger management problems of some of the virologists who post on X. This would be in reference to Angie Rasmussen, who's a very outspoken advocate for the heroic work of the proximal origin authors and Anthony Fauci and others who have, you know, single-handedly saved science. So we don't name names here, but we know that there are quite a few posters on X who do have anger management issues that are quite obvious. Blue Sky now. Many of them are on Blue Sky. That platform has really exploded. So I think that I personally have concerns about some of those people handling dangerous viruses. You know, if this is in any way representative of the broader population of people doing dangerous virology, I think it's a concern. Well, I think it's also really getting to the heart of the matter, which this has nothing to do with extremely dangerous, potentially existential work being done clandestinely by the United States government wholesale across the world with cooperation with adversary states like China and others. This has nothing to do with that. This has to do with a couple bad apples who don't know how to keep their junk in their pants and who are just totally off their rocker with, you know, love addiction to the point that they're stabbing holes in virus, you know, containment lab suits and they're, you know, killing each other in Pittsburgh because of the, you know, that they just can't handle love. And so that's the issue that we really have to work on and not this research because this research is not even happening. Labs can't come from viruses. Virus is labs. Ham sandwiches fly. Pigs fly. Raccoon dogs fly. How are we doing? Is everybody following my scientific logic here? I feel like this is logical, empirical, fact-based science. And I'm ready to ask. Proximal origin, for sure. I'll tell you that much. It actually is, if you consider a quantum world where things can happen, manifested through our minds. that if we, in our mind, believe that this came from the one-on seafood market and we just, in our mind, focus our quantum, in our pineal gland, our quantum power of manifestation, that the virus did come from that region mysteriously. I'm going to go to him for the pronunciation. Is it pineal or pineal? It's pineal. The pineal, excuse me, and I want to also apologize to any off-worlders, Syrians or Pleiadians who are particularly focused on the pineal gland and our connection to our ancestors, which is, again, a scientific conversation. Did the virus come from outer space? So I have to, for reasons not related to Bryce, which is uncommon, I have to conclude the interview sometime soon. So Bryce, and I want to give you an opportunity to offer some closing statements to this grand jury indictment hearing of ham sandwich, a jamon sandwich, a flying dog, alien transmitted RNA sequence. I want you to bring us home right now. You have 60 seconds. Make it count. Make it work. This is what will be used for your casting tape for the rest of your career. Go. Well, I'd like to thank both of you for participating in a tremendous dialogue today, especially Neil for joining me here in person in the studio and wearing his famous outfit that he featured in the film, Thank You, Dr. Fauci, who, also I would say, we talked about Neil before we got on here as the star of the film, and I would say that he's absolutely the star. I know I've said that there should have been more of me in the film, and I stick with that. I do think that maybe because you were concerned that I was going to outshine the others in the film, you downplay my role. I get it. I get it. But that's fine. Maybe we can correct that mistake in the future. One thing that came out today with a substantive point that Neil made is about nursing homes and nursing home infections. And I would like to offer a proposal. Maybe we can think about a way in which lab accidents can be monitored, and that is by using nursing homes. Asomptonals. Well, yeah, exactly. So here's the thing. A canary in the cold mine. Canary in the cold mine. I'm actually serious about this. One is, there are concerns generally that people in the public have about how many outbreaks that occur naturally are actually lab infections, like lab-acquired infections that got out into the public. It's possible maybe we could take advantage of existing infrastructures that are nursing homes located close to labs as whatever you call it, sentinels, canaries in the coal mine, to monitor the environment for escapes from labs. So if you could correlate what's present in a laboratory with things that are found in patients in a nursing home, that might provide you with a way to monitor community escapes. Will people do this? Probably not, because it probably violates all kinds of regulations and stuff. But imagine collecting samples from old folks' homes and then using those samples as a way of monitoring labs nearby them. Alternatively, we could just move labs to islands where escapes would not get into the community or whatnot. But if we're going to have all these lab proliferations, why not take advantage of retirement homes located nearby and sort of those dual purpose facilities monitoring outbreaks from labs, as well as caring for our elderly population in their golden years? I think that that's a really interesting proposal. And I would propose that we take fecal samples of scientists to detect the presence of any bullshit. And I would wonder if you would approve of that measure of sort of just an early detection program of fecal matter from scientists, scatological study to detect the presence of bullshit. Jenner, I don't know. Well, I'm going to have to think about that more, but I appreciate you sharing your thoughts as always. Okay, I guess I already lost Neil. Neil's already gone. And this was good. I have to go. I literally have to go. Thanks for listening to Leaked, a podcast inspired by the documentary Thank You, Dr. Fauci. If you want to see the full story, the interviews, the evidence, and more, check out the documentary streaming now on Angel Studios. Visit angel.com. Leaked is a production of Tenderfoot Labs, produced in partnership with Insight Studios, Angel Studios, and Bombadil Productions. Producers on behalf of Insight Studios are Jenna First, Louis Fenton, Scott St. John, and Arnold Rifkin. Executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot Labs are Donald Albright, Payne Lindsey, and Alex Vespestead. Tenderfoot Labs lead producer is Tristan Bankston Editing by Cameron Tagge Coordinating producers are John Street and Jordan Foxworthy Artwork by Where Eagles Dare Music by Danielle First, Kairi Mateen, and Jay Ragsdale Mix by Dayton Cole For more podcasts like Leaked, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us at tenderfoot.tv Thanks for listening