My Husband Treats Sex as a Performance

This is an ad for BetterHelp. May is Mental Health Awareness Month and we're all surrounded by non-stop noise and it keeps our bodies on high alert but you don't have to carry it all alone. Go to betterhelp.com slash D'loni for 10% off. How can I talk to my husband about my interest in doing the kinky stuff we used to do kind of fading away? I feel exhausted trying to find the theatrics of it all. Is there any part of you that is quietly asking, but what's just about me? It's time to stop and collaborate and listen. This is Dr. John D'loni's show. I'm John. I'm glad that you are with us. Coming to you live from Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls from all over the planet on your mental and emotional health, your relationships, your kids, whatever you got going on in your life. It's a madhouse out there. Nothing's real anymore except everything feels real and we don't know where to turn. That's what the show is. Pull up a seat and we're going to figure out what's the next right move for you, for your life, your family, whatever you got going on. If you want to be on the show, click the link in the show notes and it will go to our overlords Kelly Daniel and she will get you on the show. Let's go out to Seattle, Washington and talk to Alexandra. Hey Alexandra, what's up? Hi Dr. John. Not much. How are you? Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm good. I'm good. Thank you. How are you? I'm literally running a scam here called the podcast. It's awesome. It's good work if you can get it. It is awesome. I love it. Oh, you're too kind. What's going on? Okay. So my question is how can I talk to my husband about my interest in doing the kinky stuff we used to do kind of fading away and me being no longer interested in that kind of thing as much anymore. Okay. How long have you all been together? So we've been together for two years and married for a year and a half. Okay. So at the start of your marriage, it was kind of like, oh yeah. And now not into it as much anymore? Yeah. I mean, it's for the past maybe, I don't know, four to six months, I just haven't really wanted to do the crazy stuff as much at all. So it's still there. I still am interested. I just, I feel like exhausted by the theatrics of it all where it's like, it always seems like the next newest and crazy wild thing and what else can we bring in? Let's talk the last thing we did. And I'm so happy that he comes to me with his ideas and I want him to continue doing, I don't want him to feel shut down or like I don't want him at all anymore because it's not the case. I just don't want all the frills and I don't want, I'm okay with some of these little more vanilla more of the time and it's just getting to the point where I feel like now I don't know, I'm avoiding sex because I, you know, I, it's stressful now. Yeah. Is there any part of you that I don't want to put this into the, I don't want it to put it out into the ethos if it's not real. So I'm asking you, okay. And this isn't a leading question. This is me just trying to gather information. Okay. Is there any part of you that is quietly asking what's so bad about just me? Like, why do, like, I love the fun, I love the play, I love the adventure, I love seeing you so wild and spun up and turned on. I like all that. But what's just about me? Yeah, I think I've given some thought to maybe my fear surrounding telling him more about this is that it wouldn't be enough to not have all the other extra stuff, which, yeah, kind of boils down to like, why not? Why is it not just enough to? Yeah, just, just me and not all the stories and outfits and everything else. Okay. So I want, I want to make sure, and this is hard, this is heavy. But I want you to take the next to allow yourself to feel the weight of this. Okay. Which is this? It's not about the next thing. Is he going to be okay without this? The real scary question is, is he going to be okay with just me? And the, like, talking about, we used to be kinky and I kind of, like, I want to settle into some boring married sex because it's awesome. I like being with you. I like, like, all of that is, is cool and it makes for clickable headlines, right? Right. The real concern I have here is your, the first part of your question. How do I talk to him about? Yeah. That's the, that's the, that's the more of an alarm question for me. So what is it about the nature of your marriage, the nature of your relationship with this guy? What is it about your, just your friendship, right? Marriage is, when you just go all the way down, it's like two awesome friends. What is it about your friendship with this guy that makes you saying, Hey, here's what I want? Makes you uncomfortable with putting that on the table. Well, yeah, that's a, that's a great question too. That has been, you know, on the surface of my mind as this is constantly coming up for me. And actually, since I submitted my question, you know, because it's been so, just so much on my mind, I actually, I did talk to him about it last night. Okay. How'd it go? It went well. I'm still, I think I'm still a little nervous about how to articulate exactly, you know, the why I'm feeling what I'm feeling. And, and he actually, all my nerves were surrounding, like I'm going to disappoint him. He's going to feel rejected. He's going to be alarmed that I'm not interested anymore. He'll take it personally. And he, there was a little bit of that, but he was, he was really supportive and really great about it. And there's something, I guess, this kind of maybe involves the question to a part too. He, he is so good to me. He's so great. And we are really happy. And he really prioritizes us and my happiness. And he took it and ran in a great, you know, he's like, I want to do some research on this. I want to talk about slowing it down and things being less about, you know, the, the props and all of the wild stuff. And I kind of noticed myself because this was last night and it continued this morning. Sort of being like, well, it's getting stressful again. Now it's like too much pressure again on making it something, you know, else, you know, like where he wants so much to please me and satisfy me that, that I'm starting to think like, yeah, maybe there is a little bit like, I just want to take a break from having sex at all. OK. So I'm still. What makes that not OK? Well, I know that there's a lot of emphasis on how happy he is with our sex life. He was he was in a previous marriage. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. OK. I'm talking about you. Not him. Oh, I. Yeah, I think it's it's kind of back to, you know, the question you asked me a few minutes ago is it's it's me putting it on myself that it wouldn't be enough, you know, to not it. I wouldn't you wouldn't be enough. Yeah. Yeah. Less valuable, less lovable. Right. You know, he would lose interest, that kind of thing. Is that true? No. No. Have people lost interest in you before? Yeah. OK. Let me let me say this. I'm so grateful that you called this early in your marriage. And I'm so grateful that you called while you still seem to really care about this guy. I'll trust you and take your word for it that he really cares about you. OK. Yeah. But a marriage only works. If you see and know and celebrate and challenge each other. But you're doing all the seeing and all the knowing and all the celebrating and all the challenging right now. Yeah. And in a weird way, you did last night and I'm really proud of you, but you're not allowing yourself to be seen and known and celebrated either. And part of being known is here's what I like. Here's what I don't like. And part of celebrating somebody is saying, awesome, I want to do these things. And that's it's cool that it's out there, but you can't control that for him. What you can control is walking in and saying, here is where I'm at right now. Right. Because what you're trying to do is you're anticipating his discomfort, his feeling of rejection, his frustration, his whatever. You're anticipating that and it may or may not be true. And then you're trying to manage it for him. And in managing it, you're stepping on yourself or the definition of co-dependence is I need him to be OK so that I can be OK. And what I want to challenge is, I want to be able to be able to be able to be and what I want to challenge you to do is to begin to ask yourself, what is true for me? What do I actually want? And what's hard for most people is it's not, there's a tension. It's not either or because probably, and again, shut me down if I'm wrong. There's times when I kind of like to just get wheels off again. That was fun. And there's a fear that if I do this, then it's going to have to always be like that and then every night's a performance. Then where I see couples get is I don't even want to hold his hand because if I grab his hand, that starts a set of dominoes that I'm going to end up in some weird outfit on my head with a giraffe costume. So I'm just going to avoid even holding his hand. Yeah. Right. And then he's going to loop around and say, then I need to escalate even more and more and more and more and more and more. And then we end up getting further and further apart from each other. Right. And so let me ask you like a series of like, is this true or not questions? Okay. I know what you feel, but let me ask you like, is this true? Okay. Do you not want to engage in any sexual acts with him or are you tired of the performance aspect, tired of feeling like you have to perform to be intimate? Tired of feeling that I have to perform to be intimate. Okay. So where does the story that you have to perform? Where does that come from? I think there's a lot of positive reinforcements surrounding the things we've done and, you know, his enjoyment and excitement. And I do love to make him happy. And I guess starting early on, you know, we seem to be very well aligned, you know, with Levito and all of that. And, you know, he definitely was very verbal about how much he enjoyed everything. And so I think I'm just a person in general who probably thrives off praise and wanting to keep the momentum of like, oh, he's really loving this, which I guess, you know, equated to he's really loving me. And, you know, so that just kept the momentum going. So let me ask you a deeper question. Who's responsible for loving you? I am. So that what? So that then you can show up. Right. And part of loving yourself is asking yourself, what do I actually want? What actually feels good? What do I like? Right. And in every marriage, there's, there's, there's times of generosity, right? Like in generosity sounds like such a clinical dramatic term. There's times when you're just like, I'm going, I'm going for it. Like I'm a rock as well tonight. Like I'm in, right? That's part of it. And there's equally part of it where I would love for to get the giraffe costume out, but, but tonight is going to be gentle, slow. We're going to look each other in the eyes all the way through. Yeah. Right. And, and so it's, it is a, a constant. Attempt to out serve each other. But that means there's times when I'm going to allow myself to be served. And I can only be served if I'm known and I can only be known if I allow myself to be known and I can only allow myself to be known if I know what the heck I even want. Okay. Right. Yeah. So let me ask you, this is an awkward question, but what do you want? Like if you could imagine a romantic sexual encounter with your husband, paint me a picture of what that looks like. I, I think I would, well, I really do want a little bit of what I'm intimidated by, like I, I know I want slower. I want it to start earlier on in the day with intention. And I don't want to get to bed and be going right for it. You know, definitely much more warm up. And, and during like, I, I really would like to have a sense like this is, it's completely on me, but I don't feel like I can make eye contact during, and I would really like to be able to do that. Okay. So, I'm not safe in an abusive way, but do you feel safe enough to say that out loud? Yeah, I do. Is there a part of you that I have, can you say, I don't like it when you have to Google what we're going to do? Yeah, I'm working towards that. You know, I think there were moments of our conversation last night where, maybe not in that directive away, which I need to work on. I let him know that all of those extra Google searches were getting exhausting for me. And he might turn around and tell you, I feel like I'm going to disappoint you. Cause maybe I disappointed my ex-wife. Right. And so I'm going to research this. I'm going to be perfect at this. I am going to never let the support of my ex-wife, I'm going to be perfect at this. I am going to never let the spark die. Yeah. And he's trying to use a blow torch to light a candle. Mm-hmm. Right. And so when, when you tell him, Hey, clear is kind, here's a roadmap at 10 AM. I want you to text me and say that you're thinking about me. And at four o'clock, I want you to text me and say, how can I love you? I'm headed out home from work in about an hour. How can I love you when I walk in the door? And I don't want you to Google anything. I want us just to watch a show. And then I want you to take my hand and take us, like you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like this is super unholy. Right. This level of clarity. But the alternative is you keep participating in something that makes you feel more and more used and less and less seen and known, or you just shut the whole system down. Yeah. That's definitely what it feels like it's happening. Okay. So the, the path forward is, um, hope he'll read your mind eventually or Google the just the right thing, or I want to be so clear so that you have a path to me. And it might start with, I want to do 30 seconds of French kissing and we're going to make direct eye contact and not break it. David Schnark, he's a, he's a famous, uh, therapist and sex therapist. He's a brilliant thinker, um, but he has a whole section about, um, eyes open everything. And it's intense, intense. Yeah. Right. But, and maybe saying, I want to, I want to sleep together tonight for the first time. I don't have sex and I want us to make direct like laser eye contact the whole time. That might be too much for, for the first time, but I just want to, I want us to kiss for a while and I want us just to make eye contact. I want to see you and I want you to, I want to see you seeing me. Right. I want to be the person that you come to, not this, not the, not the Google search. Right. Right. Yeah. And I think he would, he would absolutely be on board. You know, he would, he's willing to, to also try anything I bring to the table, which is great. Okay. And I, but will he do the next thing? And that is this. Will he hear you if you put on the table? I'm nervous to disappoint you. Yeah. I think putting that fear out in the open, cause that's the fear underneath all of this. Right. You're right. And so let me put that on the table. The story I've made up is if I don't do all this stuff and I'm not super into it all the time, that you're going to find me wanting, you're going to, you're going to leave. And you might know intellectually, he's not going to leave. He loves me. He's crazy about me, all this stuff. Look at this. He's googling giraffe costumes for crying out loud. Like, right. You might know that intellectually, but in your spirit, in the middle of your chest, you're like, do that guy's about to leave. I got to keep participating in this. Yeah. And so let's put that on the story I made up is this. And let him respond to that. And my guess is based on what you've told me, he's going to say, Oh God, no, never. And then we can get into the fun. What I call like the negotiations day, like how do I signal to you that I would just like a wheels off night? Okay. Or how would I signal to you? Is it a text? Is it a call? Is it a, like I'm going to make the bed a certain way that tonight I want to slow chill. I just want to be with you. No drama, no theatrics, no, whatever. Okay. All right. And a fun, intimate conversation. And you all may have had this already is not what are the things you want to try? What are the things you want me to wear? What are the roles you want to act out? But the intimate conversation is. Tell me, tell me what excites you about that. Tell me what makes you feel alive about all of that. And my sense is being able to have that conversation will free up the next conversations that need to happen. But A, you're awesome for making this call because your willingness to have this call is going to help a jillion people. Thanks for the call, sister. It's awesome. Appreciate your vulnerability and your openness. And I think your marriage is going to be in a pretty amazing place moving forward. We come back. A woman asks if it's reasonable to feel like she doesn't belong in that space. And she says she doesn't belong in the house her husband bought with his ex-wife. Nice. 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They're polarized, which means they cut the glare and they actually let you see into the water, not just on the surface, into the water. It's magic. It makes a huge difference. They protect your eyes. They're durable and shady rays are built for real life. And I need to say this. I've lost or broken more sunglasses than I care to admit. It's pretty embarrassing, actually. Shady rays has lost and broken protection. So if something happens, shady rays will replace them. It's amazing. And shady ray sunglasses look awesome and they're not stupid expensive. So if you like to fish or you know someone who does, get sunglasses that are made for fishing, check out shady rays entire sunglasses collections. They're amazing. Head to shady rays.com and use code DELONI for 40% off two or more polarized sunglasses. They're awesome. That's shady rays.com. Use code DELONI. All right. Chicago, Illinois. Let's talk to Lynn. Hey, Lynn, what's up? Hey, how's it going, Dr. John? Doing good. How are you? I'm good. I'm a feather in a whirlwind right now. I love it. I'm hoping you can help me out. Go for it. What's up? Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out how to how to feel like I sit into this house that I live in with my husband now that he bought with his ex-wife. If you want, I can give you a little bit of the context behind it. Yeah, go for it. Okay. So we've been together almost four years, Merity, year and a half. And he bought this house with his previous wife as their dream home. And like, even when we were dating, he told me, like straight up, he was very honest. He's like, this is the house I want to grow old in. I want to retire here. This is my dream home. I've always wanted to live here. It's a beautiful house, like really beautiful. But I'm really struggling because he bought it with her and that was, I feel like it was, it was their dream together. And then I'm coming in to this and I feel a little, I don't know how I feel about it. I don't feel good about it. I guess. You know exactly how you feel about it. Just own it. Say it. Yeah. I don't like it. And I don't like the feeling of, I don't like the feeling of being second and living in someone else's dream. I love that. That's like, you said that perfectly. That's, that's super clear for me. Oh, okay. Y'all too had a dream. She's out of the picture and you just replaced her picture with mine in your dream. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like I want to build something with him new. But I also, you know, I know that I gave him my word that I, you know, I agreed to move in here with him. So. Well, that's the hard part is you, like to his credit, he was pretty straightforward and you signed up for this. I did. And then I was like, oh shoot, I thought a year and a half in. I'd be like, oh yeah, this is my house. And I think it maybe has something to do to you with before we got married, like a big dummy. I was like, oh, she still has stuff in your house that, you know, whatever, I'll help you clean it out. That was a terrible idea. Like terrible. So I went in and like, I was helping him get stuff out. She had like a U-Haul amount of stuff that she left at the house. And there's like all sorts of intimate, very, very intimate items and love letters. And I just can't unsee those when I walk into the room. Okay. Can I, can I, can I challenge you on something? Yeah. How much of this is the house and how much of it is what the house represents that he had somebody that he said, I do till death do his part with before you? I don't know. It's probably a lot more of the, that it was, because I never thought I was going to be. I know. I never pictured that I would be with someone who was previously married. Right. So, and you haven't metabolized, you signed up for a new picture. Yeah. Yeah. And you want so, so, so, so badly and you're not crazy for wanting this, you want to be his only one. Yeah. But he had another one. Yeah. And like, he still has the wedding pictures and in the basement and a bin and, you know, I want to be like, hey, that, you know, I have a past, you have a past, that is our past. And that's okay. But I just, I'm really, really struggling and I, I don't know if maybe part of it too and part of the thing with the house that gets me confused is that, um, growing up, we, um, my family, like very, very close net, but incredibly financially unstable and it was on the table almost monthly that we might be homeless and my parents would try and reassure us and be like, oh, you know, like, we'll, we'll send you. Kids off here and you kids over to this relative. So that way, you know, we'll break up the family, but you'll have a place to stay. And so I don't know if part of it is maybe I'm a, I'm afraid of, of connecting to because I, I feel like the other shoe is going to drop. I don't know. Did you move a lot in your adult life? Yeah, I moved all over the country. Yeah. Um, and the crappiest part about having the childhood you had and moving a lot is every new place you showed up to, you went with you. Yeah. Yeah. So let me ask you like some real clear fact finding questions. Are y'all, is this too much house for y'all to afford? Um, no. Are you broke? Well, right now we are, but he just started a new job. So I think it should be, it should be okay. Okay. I want you to get really clear on that. And what I mean by that is I want a path I want y'all to, to sit down and talk through what must be true over the next month, second month, the third month, go three months out and say, how will we know if this new job is working? Hmm. Hmm. And part of him loving you, part of you loving him is knowing he's got wedding pictures with somebody else in the basement. Now I'm not going to weighed in on whether I think he should get rid of him or not, whatever. Like I think those are symbolic of he's, he built a life with somebody else and it didn't work out. Yeah. Right. And so that's true, but part of him loving you is knowing I grew up in terrifying, um, with a terrifying sense of anxiety around finances. So I need some extra clarity. Okay. My, I've mentioned on the, on the show before having a mortgage, having a car payment. My wife loses zero seconds of sleep. Doesn't bother her at all. How I grew up, how I grew up, I will pace the house at night. If I owe somebody money, I will make a lapse around the house. It makes me bananas. Yup. Okay. Oh gosh. Yeah. And so her way of loving me is showing up and saying, got it. Then we're going to, we're going to drive these kinds of cars. Cool. Done. What's next? Hmm. All right. I'll go on a crazy plan and forgo vacations for a few years to get this house paid off. And we're going to buy half that size of house than we can actually, we actually qualify for because it's more important for both of them, for me to have a well and whole husband. And it's more important for my husband to not owe anybody any money. So we're going to buy a house that looks like this and we're going to love it. Right. And on the backside of that, I have a hard time spending money on vacations. And part of me loving her was I want to go see the world. Then maybe we're going to see the world. Right. Yeah. But it came in that order, but it also came with us putting all of this on the table and her saying, I always wanted to go see a bunch of stuff. And me saying these things scare me to death. And both of us saying, I see you and know you enough. I'm in. Right. It's when you think you have to hide parts of yourself from him. That those things rise up like dragons. Hmm. Yeah. And, and I think, you know, I'm having a hard time. I have a hard time talking to him because we've talked about it a couple of times and I know I've like, I've hurt him when I say that I am like, it's a beautiful house, but it doesn't feel it still feels like your house. And he's like, you know, I feel like I've tried to make something really beautiful, like a little home for you and you're rejecting me. And I don't know how to, I guess I can't make him feel one way or another. And I'm not trying to be ungrateful because it is beautiful. But flip that around. He can't make you feel any way either. Hmm. Well, let me say it. That's not totally true. When you get married to somebody, my buddy, Jefferson said this and I love it. You give each other the nuclear codes. Huh. So you, you know, the things you could say to destroy him, to make him feel really bad. And you know, some things you can say to really lift his spirits and vice versa. Right? Yeah. So there, there is, there is an aspect where I can make my wife feel a certain way. Yeah. But over the long haul, she's got to be responsible for, and I have to be responsible for. Why am I feeling the way I do and what part of my emotional reactions can I begin to control? I can't control those feelings. They just loop into my body, but I can say what must be true. Hmm. Right. What, what can I own here? Yeah. This guy's trying to make an amazing house. And if you find yourself saying, I just won't be comfortable here, I won't put in the work to become comfortable here. I'm going to always choose to look at this house, not as just a bunch of sticks and bricks, but I'm going to look at this house as a symbol that you used to love somebody else. You can choose to look at it that way for the rest of your life. Yeah. Well, it's not going to make me happy. Nope. And by the way, y'all are going to sell that house, move somewhere else, and you're going to go with you again. Yeah. Oh man. Yeah, that's true. True. And so the big question is what must be true for me to be okay in my own skin? And there's some very real tangible things like I need to make sure we're financially secure. I want to be a part of the plan. Hmm. I need to be able to tell you the things that make me nervous and scared. I need to be able to say, in my perfect world, you would have never married anybody else. You would have just known me and you would have not built this amazing house with somebody. The thought of y'all leaning over the architectural plans of this house makes me want to throw up. And also, you get to choose whether you meditate on that or not. When that lightning bolt pops in your head, you get to decide, am I going to think through that? Am I going to spend time imagining her saying, well, I want the wall here. Or am I going to say, nah, I don't have that conversation. This is my house now. Hmm. Right? Yeah. We get to choose what we meditate on. Hmm. Yeah. I guess it's the practice itself that I'm going to have to keep trying to figure out how to do on the day to day. Can I give you a couple of just pretty simple, straightforward things? Yes. I want you to make a daily practice and do this for 60 days, two months. Okay. Okay. I think we're at the very end of March or the very beginning of April when we're filming this show, right? Mm-hmm. Right. By June 1, here's what I want you to have. I want you to have a notebook by your bed. Okay. That has every single morning you wake up three to four things you're grateful for. Okay. Next, I want you to write three or four things that you are grateful about him. Hmm. And I want you to make this a daily practice where you tell him. Hmm. Okay. I then want you to write down three or four big, scary feelings you have. And then I want you to quickly look at those feelings and ask yourself two questions. Is it true? And can I do anything about it? Hmm. So, for instance, I feel like this is not my house. Is that true? Like, legally, no, it's not true. Yeah. Can I do anything about that feeling? I'm going to quit looping on that thought. And I'm going to every morning wake up and say, I'm so grateful I got to wake up in this big, amazing, beautiful house. Hmm. Big fear. He still keeps the pictures of his wedding in the basement. Is this something you can do about it? Yeah. You could, you could sweat them out on that. You can say, I know you had another life before me, but I want no physical evidence to remain. Right? You could do that. Yeah, I'm a burden and slasher myself. I don't want to do that to him. I mean, you can, but like, but you can choose to be like, yeah, that's in actually in the basement. It's part of his, it's part of his old life. I'm part of his now life and his future. Yeah. And my promise is if you, if you meditate on those things, things that he does awesome for you, things that you do awesome for him. If you begin to look down the road and fantasize is not, not in a sexual way, but fantasize like about the life you all are building together and you all are regularly talking about, how do you want this house to feel? What kind of life do you want to build together? Then your, your default setting shifts from this is all going away. This is all going away. This is all going away to look what we're building together. Thank you so, so much for the call. I'm really, really grateful. We come back. A woman asks how to convince her husband to redo their wedding. Nice. I can't wait. Hey, I want to talk to you about love for a second and not the, I'll never let go. Jack, I'll never. No, not this nonsense, Titanic kind of love. By the way, he could have fit on the door. We all know that I'm talking about a love that moves you to take care of the people closest to you with real action. I'm talking about taking care of people after you're gone. I'm talking about term life from Xander insurance. If you have anyone depending on you, you need term life insurance. I've used Xander for life insurance for years long before I started this show. For one reason, I trust them. When it comes to term life, here's the deal. You need to get 10 to 12 times your income and coverage because that gives your family real protection. So if the unthinkable happens, your family can spend their time grieving and not worrying about where their next meal is going to come from. Xander makes buying term life insurance simple with clear guidance and honest support. They help you figure out just the right amount of coverage for you and your family. And then they shop all the top companies to find you the best price. Getting term life insurance is a way of saying, I love you, especially when you can no longer say it yourself. Go to Xander.com or call 1-800-356-4282 and get term life insurance with Xander. That's Xander.com. Alright, let's go out to Jenny in Minneapolis. What's up, Jenny? From the block. Hey, how's it going? I'm doing great. How about you? Good. I just feel nervous. You're all good. I'm not very good at this job and you have nothing to be nervous about. What's up? All good. Well, I just had a quick question. I want to redo our wedding and my husband's not 100% on board. Why do you want to redo your wedding? Long and short of it. My sister-in-law ruined it. And every time I look at our wedding pictures, I just get that knot of anger. How did she ruin it? So we had a micro wedding and... Hold on. I don't spend much time on social media. What's a micro wedding? So think of like a small wedding but smaller. So we had like a dozen people. Okay. Alright. So a super mini micro. Okay. Alright. So we have a micro wedding. Okay. And we asked everyone, please wear bright colors, everything. She showed up in her dress that she reserves for funerals. All black with a black veil, whole nine yards. A black veil? Black veil. Incredible. Why does she do that? I honestly don't know. She was my best friend and I had completely had hope that she'd be like my maid of honor. But when I got engaged to my husband, she just changed. And she became very mean towards me and him. And I sat down with her and had conversation like, you know, you're really important to me. Because at this point I've been listening to your show. So I'm like, you're really important to me. I don't, I don't understand why, you know, what's going on. Did he say something? Did something go down? And she basically told me that, you know, I don't see any point in getting to know him. Because he's not going to be in my life or your life for that long. So what's the point in getting to know him? I thought she was your sister-in-law. She is. So my brother's wife. Oh, okay. I thought it was your husband's sister. Okay. All right. So you're both with- No, no. I wish. So, um, and she told me that, you know, he was going to leave me, you know, two months after our baby was born. And that I deserved to have a miscarriage and just all sorts of other things. Well, let me, let me, let me first say this. I was, I was, I misjudged this hard and I was laughing at the beginning of this call. This isn't funny. And I'm sorry. No, it's okay. It's not funny at all. Not funny at all. That's, that's, that's bad on me. Um, I, I, I don't think you can do what you want. I don't think that the problem here is redoing your wedding is not going to take away the grief that you feel here. And it's seeing in that wedding every time, like seeing your photos every time, I, I maybe don't put pictures up with her in them, right? Or put pictures up with you and your husband up and that's it. And that's sad and that's frustrating, etc. But that's not going to take away the hole in your heart that you had a really close best friend that just went nuclear on you. Said some awful, horrific things. Yeah. And redoing your wedding isn't going to help you grieve that loss. Right. What do I do then? I think healing looks like, can I look at pictures of my wedding and be sad but not have my body run off into the woods on me with anger and rage and heartbreak? Can I write her a letter that I'm never going to mail her, but can I write her and say you broke my heart? I treasured our friendship and you, and you spit in my face on a number of different counts. And I'm going to miss you and I wish you well, but I'm going to stop carrying you around like a cinder block in my life because I got a new baby. I got a new husband. I got, I got a new life. And you're also going to have to grieve the fact that you probably had a picture of you and your brother spending holidays together with y'all's families. And she blew that picture to smithereens. Yeah. And that stinks. It's heartbreaking because it's not only you lost her friendship, but in a way you lost your brother too, right? Yeah. I mean, family gatherings, it's kind of like the Hatfields in McCoy's. Everyone takes a side. Yeah. And it might put you in a position at some point to say, I'm not going to choose. I'm going to choose, actually what I'm going to choose is peace at holidays. And so I love you guys with all my guts. This woman wished me to have a miscarriage and she wished my marriage to fail. And I'm just not going to, I'm not going to be around that. So I love you guys and I wish you all the best. Okay. None of that's easy, but here's what I want you to do. This is you taking control of what's inside your chest and I'm going to stop handing it to her. Okay. She tried to ruin your wedding. She didn't have that kind of power anymore. I don't know. Every time I just look at the pictures, I'm like, it was such a beautiful day and it's like... And it was. And what does it represent? Tell me about your marriage. Give me a few words about your marriage now. Oh, my husband's just so amazing. He's such a hard worker and he, you know, he's like, I don't feel like we need another wedding. We live our vows every day, you know. You married a keeper, Jenny. Yeah, I did. And tell me about this little baby I can hear in the background. This is our second. Tell me about your first. She is just a spitfire. You know, she just has so much personality and, you know, every day she's just, is wild and crazy and just keeps you on your toes. I love it. And so sister-in-law doesn't get any of that anymore? No. Because that celebration y'all had on that day that she tried to ruin by showing up in a whatever dramatic fashion, it had no impact on how amazing your marriage is. How much your husband loves you to the moon and back. You're two amazing kids and more to come. Like, she doesn't get a vote in her life anymore. Okay. And here's what this is. It's you saying, I'm not giving you that power over my life anymore. Okay. Is there any, is there any nagging question in the back of your mind of what did I do? I mean, I, you know, I've written her letters multiple times and I just, I just can't ever seem to like put it down. When I have the pictures of our wedding up, I just, I just go there again and I'm like, I mean, I've cut her off in my life in almost every other conceivable way. But. And know that I'm, I'm generally against people cutting each other off these days. It just happens so frequently. I'm super in support of this one. Okay. I support you on here. Here's what I want to challenge you with. We cannot stop the lightning bolt of feeling or a thought that shoots into our head or into our body. Okay. We can't. It just happens. It's our brain trying to protect us. Right. We can choose the moment after that on what we're going to meditate on. And so what I mean by that is you can walk by your house, be having a great day, see that picture and see her with like all these bright colors of just a few people and see that one black dress and the black though. And you can laser right in on that. And you can then cascade down to, I can't believe she did that. I told her and she, I can't believe she said, and you can do all of those things. And your body will go to war on your behalf. It'll flood you with adrenaline and corals. It'll be ready to rock and roll. And all you're, all you're doing in those moments is making a choice. I'm going to think about this and not about this amazing baby. I'm holding not about this amazing man. I'm married to. Right. Because going down the exercise of, because what, here's what your body's trying to do. It never wants you to hurt like that again. Yeah. And so it's going to keep bringing it up and bringing it up so that you remember this can't ever happen again. And all that's going to do is rob you of the beauty that you've got surrounded by you all the time right now. Right. Yeah. And so it's like I had seasons when I'd walk through my house and I would yell out loud. No. Like, I'm not thinking about that. I'm not going to have that store. I'm not, I'm not going to spend time on that story. I had to yell out loud to break myself of the habit. Okay. But I'm going to begin to practice. It's, it's literally think this, it's a practice. I'm going to practice having two or three awesome things from that day to think about, not just that. She doesn't have that kind of power over me anymore. Okay. This is not easy. It's hard. It's real hard. And right when you think you've got it, she's going to text you out of the blue. That's why I'm like, maybe if we just redid it, it would just be a whole new memory. It won't. It will be, you'll see that and be like, we had to do that again because of, and it would just go, I mean, it will compound the loop because you'll spend money. You'll take time. You'll go through the whole song and dance again. And that will not erase the original pain, which is a family member and a close best friend stabs you right in the heart. That's what my husband said. Yeah. Husbands are smart guy. Sorry she did that. I know. I just wish it was different. There we go. That's that. That's grief is the gap between what we wanted to happen and what actually happened. And so we're going to say, I wish it was different and it's not. So I get to choose what happens in this moment right now. Okay. Have you tried the Cinderblock game that I used to give people back in the day? No. I know you've got babies and you've got kids in your house, but I want you to get a Cinderblock from Lowe's. Have your husband pick one up on the way home. Or maybe he's got one out. Okay. Maybe he's got one in the back or something. I want you to get a Cinderblock and get a piece of duct tape and write her name on it. And then I want you to carry it around the house for a while. Just go around doing your regular life, your regular chores, your regular stuff. Until that thing gets so stinkin' heavy, you can literally can't carry anymore. I want you to take it and throw it in the backyard or over your fence. Or put it in the trunk of your car and take it somewhere. And tear that duct tape off, throw it in the trash and say out loud, I'm not carrying you anymore. And it's a touchstone for your body to go. No, no, no. I already set that down. So when the thoughts come again, when you see the picture on the piano and it all this, you're like, no, no, no. I already set that down because you have a, you physically set it down. And that exercise in and of itself won't just magically like, ah, it's all gone. It won't. But over time, it will be a touchstone. It will be an important moment. It will be like a miniature funeral of your friendship. I didn't want it to be like this and it was. And so I'm setting this down forever. And now I'm going to be about thinking about living into meditating on things that are good and right and beautiful and full of joy. Because life's got enough crap as it is. I'm not going to keep dragging back to somebody who tried to ruin my special day. Because by the way, you didn't. My marriage rules. My kids are healthy and whole and they're firecrackers and I love it. And I'm going to live in this moment and prepare for the one to come. No more living in the rearview mirror. Thanks for the call, sister. I'm on team husband on this one. I don't think a new, a new wedding is going to wipe this one away. I think this one's on the inside and we have to heal from the inside out. Thanks for the call, sister. We'll be right back. As the great Johnny Cash once sang, love is a burning thing. And you know what else is burning? The weather is hot outside now. So all of my favorite poncho denims and flannels, boom, going to the back of the closet. You know what's coming to the front of the closet? Poncho originals and my ultralights. Why? Because no matter what time of the year, I'm still wearing poncho and poncho makes clothes for me to go outside, wear it's hot and remain cool and comfortable. I've been wearing poncho shirts for years because they're the best. They rule. And the original poncho shirt is a go anywhere performance shirt. It's lightweight. It's breathable. It's quick drying. It's built for fishing. It's built for yard work and it's awesome enough to wear out to dinner with that special someone. And the ultralight, it's ultralight. That's what they call it that, right? It's got a great fit and an even lighter feel. So when it's hot outside like it is right now in Tennessee, that matters. Poncho shirts have this amazing stretch to them and they move with you. And even though they're light and soft, they're super tough. If the warmer weather, this hot weather, has you ready to reshuffle your closet? I want you to go to ponchooutdoors.com slash DELONI and check out all of their styles. You get 10 bucks off your first purchase if you sign up with your email. Go check them out. That's ponchooutdoors.com slash DELONI. All right, we're back. Kelly is gone. She's out of the booth and Alex is producing the show today. Good to see Alex. Good to see you. All right, we're going to do a surprise for Kelly. This has never happened before. We'll never happen again. But all of us are just going to say like one nice thing about Kelly. And I know that's a little bit of a mind bender coming from me, but she's pretty mostly, mostly pretty great. So we'll start with you, Ben. Go ahead. Me first, huh? Put me on the spot. Kelly is an incredibly fun and inviting person to be around. And she leads the team so well, partly because she makes people very comfortable and having a good time when they're working with Kelly. Well, partly it's because she takes shots starting at like 9.30 in the morning. Oh yeah, that's why. She is super fun. Okay, awesome. Alex, what do you think? Kelly doesn't look as old as she actually is. Amen. If you all knew the amount of AI, dude, she was sobbing when they canceled Sora because so much of Kelly on the show that y'all see is AI. But yeah, you're right. She does a good job hiding that age. But to be real, she's an incredible person to work with. She is such a good, like a good person to go to for really anything when it comes to the show and working with her. It's just, it's, it's makes you so easy to call up her and ask her things and get things changed. I feel like I can say whatever I want honestly, and she's good with it and we can keep rolling. It's great. So, Thomas, what do you think? Yeah, there's nobody that actually cares about the team and the audience as much as Kelly. She, the amount of work she puts into the show and the crew to really make sure we're serving each other and serving our audience well. It's, it's impressive. It's awesome. And I guess I will end the show with something that I think is awesome about Kelly. No, Mia. Oh, Mia, Mia, I didn't see you behind the screen. Disrespect is crazy. Wow. What do you think, Mia? I mean, Kelly is so thoughtful. She'll leave me notes on my desk. She left a little Christmas gift on my desk and she comes in with like cookies and treats. She loves to bake for us. So I really admire like how thoughtful and intentional she is. That's awesome. So to everyone listening, contrary to what I say all the time, she actually is a really caring person. She never directs that care towards me, but she does direct it towards all of these amazing men and women. So Kelly, shout out. We're glad you're in our gang. And we really, really hope that, uh, I was gonna say it. I'm not gonna say it. Love you guys. Bye.