Glucose Goddess Turned Sugar Hacks Into an 8-Figure Business (Jessie Inchauspé)

Today on Aspire, I'm sitting down with Jessie Inchao Spee, better known to millions as the glucose goddess. Now, what started as a personal health experiment turned into a global movement. She has three bestselling books, millions of followers, and now an eight-figure fully bootstrapped business. But what really struck me in this conversation is that Jessie didn't raise capital. She didn't follow a roadmap. She followed her intuition. We talk about what it looks like to build without investors when you are protecting your freedom as a founder and why she refuses to compromise on quality, even if it means lower margins and how motherhood has made her more focused, not softer. Yes, we get into the glucose hacks, of course, but this episode is really about what she's building and what happens when you decide that something that worked for you could be applicable to others and you get out of your own way and actually make it happen. 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I am an avid follower of yours, but I am just really, really interested that when I see someone like you who is such an incredible expert turn their expertise into a business, it just kind of blows my mind. And I kind of want to frame this up for people a little bit. You are a bestselling author three times over, I think. You've got over 6 million followers on social media, which is absolutely wild because you've built that audience in a relative short space of time. You have a degree in mathematics, a degree in biochemistry. You have a brand, you're building this, you know, like world of your own. And I am so dying to talk to you about every bit of it and then kind of, you know, like get all your expertise so I can gobble it all up or not gobble it up as the case might be. Exactly. But any audience members that might not know you or might not follow you or have the same kind of, you know, fascination with you quite yet, can you just talk a little bit about what it is that you do and where your expertise are at least? I help people eat better so they can feel better. That's it. If you boil it down, but I do it with a little bit of magic. So my tagline for my company, which I don't really use very often, but it's one that I love. It's magic starts here, but it's all science. So I distill complicated science into easy tips, like having your veggies before the rest of your meal, like moving after you eat, like vinegar before your cookie that help people study their blood sugar levels. And this was the beginning of my adventure, finding these hacks, the science, et cetera. And since then, I've really built it up into a little company. And we do lots more than just that now. Which is so exciting. Talk to me, did you actually understand that you were building a company when you started out on this journey? Hell no. No. So the journey was I got interested in blood sugar in the first place because of my own issues. I broke my back when I was 19. This is the origin story. Broke my back in 19, developed a lot of mental health issues, went to school for biochemistry to try to understand how the heck this machine I was living in was working, worked in genetics. And then out of the sky, one day, almost 10 years after my surgery, the universe, seriously, that's how it felt, presented me a glucose monitor. Randomly, I was working in Silicon Valley. I'm assuming this was before everyone in the gym was wearing glucose monitors. Yes, this was 2018. Okay. Yeah, this was the beginning. And so I had the opportunity to put one on and I was like, sure, I'll try. And it completely changed my life. I realized that if I could steady my blood sugar levels, my mental health was better. And if I had big blood sugar swings during the day, my mental health was worse. At this point, nobody was wearing a glucose monitor. It felt very strange. It felt very alien almost, but I became fascinated by the topic. And I looked at all the science. I started healing myself, my own blood sugar. And then I felt like, why doesn't everybody wear a glucose monitor. This is so interesting. This can help so many ailments from mental health to energy to, of course, diabetes and the things we associate with blood sugar. And so here I was on my couch in San Francisco feeling like, okay, I have this passion that has just bubbled up from inside me. This idea of making glucose mainstream was bubbling inside me and it was just gripping me, and I couldn't stop thinking about it. And so I started working. I said, okay, how can I immerse myself in this world and how can I make something out of it? But really what I cared about was communicating the science and the information to people. And tell me, what was it about this discovery wearing the glucose monitor that sparked such an interest in you? Like, what were you seeing in those early days that was like, I've got to share this information? So I was seeing big blood sugar spikes and big drops in my own data. And I was correlating that to my own feelings and symptoms. But Emma, I could have just said, oh, I should keep this to myself. This is great. I'm learning. I'm fixing my body. I didn't have to go and think I'm on a mission to share this. And I can't explain it. It feels almost spiritual. I don't know. The idea sort of picked me. And I, all of a sudden, I was a channel for this thing. I was like, I need to tell the world. That is crazy. And at that point, I didn't have an Instagram account. It was just me by myself. And you work in a corporate job at this point. Yeah, yeah. You just have a regular job and you're a regular girl going to work with your degree in biochemistry. Exactly. And so I thought I need to share this information. So I have a background in math, as you said, and I can program a little bit. So I thought I'm going to write a computer software that takes the data from my glucose monitor, because at the time they were not connected to fancy apps for wellness people. So I took screenshots on this very like medical device looking app in my phone. I put it on my computer and I wrote this little program that like digitize the data and turn it into something slightly prettier. And I would make these comparisons. I would make like an orange versus an orange juice and show the blood sugar spike difference and literally send this to my mom and my boyfriend. I'd be like, isn't this cool? They were like, no, it's cool, Jessie. Okay, girl. Okay. Super cool. But I kept sharing it and I felt like people were seeing something new. And I felt like this was really the idea that needed to blossom. This is the start of your famous graphs, right? Because I I feel like still to this day, you'll put up like these graphics. And that to me is what really drew me in because I'm super dyslexic. And so reading information like that maybe won't go in. But when I saw your page, I was like, oh, damn, like that, you know, it's like it goes straight in. That was my core invention. That was the moment of genius that changed everything. And because I had a background, I was a product manager at 23andMe, the genetics company. I was managing features in an app and a website. And I was learning how you make a feature and how you get feedback from the user and you iterate. So I thought, I'm going to approach Instagram posts like I would approach a feature. I am going to iterate and give feedback. How many likes does it get? And then I'm going to tweak it a little bit and do it again and see if this gets more likes and see comments and get user feedback. I didn't just make an Instagram and post whatever I wanted. I was on a mission. I was on a mission so that Nancy, because let's be honest about who your user is. If you're actually trying to communicate stuff on Instagram, your user is Nancy. She is probably on the toilet scrolling on her Instagram. I never do that. And if you know if I've been on the toilet recently without scrolling Instagram, you are my user right now. And I wanted to grow this content. I wanted to make it big. I wanted everybody to know about it. So I thought, okay, what's the problem I need to solve? I need Emma on the toilet to see my piece of content. And how do you grow an Instagram? You get people to share your content to their friend and to their colleague and to your sister and to your mom so that they start following the accounts. That's how you grow an Instagram. People forget this. They come to me and they say, Jesse, how do you grow an Instagram account? I said, you have to make content that's shareable, that people share with their friends and family, and then they come and they follow you. You weren't connecting at that point that you want to grow an Instagram account to eventually be able to do all of this other stuff. I'm fascinated by this information. I want to get the information out. And I'm going to use my understanding of the digital landscape to actually put these things together and make something that has some level of virality. I had no thought in my mind, I should build a business. None of that. And because I was in Silicon Valley, everybody was telling me, that's a great little thing you have. Go raise a million dollars and build a company. So I kind of tried that on for a bit. I was like, okay, like, I don't know. I went to talk to a few VCs and they were like, yeah, we'll take 20% of your company for one million. I was like, but I don't have a company. I don't have a business. I know nothing. And I kept going back to what my body was telling me, which was this startup thing is not for you. Like you're about the content. You're a teacher. That's where I felt my best. That's where I felt like I was thriving. I was excited. It was in teaching. It was in making that content. And I had no clue how I was going to make money from this. But you landed in that lane. And I've heard you speak about this before. Like you made science sexy. Like it really worked. Like you were just on your own doing something that you felt super passionate about and the world was responding. Pretty much. I mean, it took a long time, but I merged that part. How long did it take? There's no overnight. Is there people going to be like discovering you? And I mean, you're so popular now, but we're going back like, you know, many years ago. It took a while. I did this thing that I recommend every person launching a business or trying a new idea do. I wrote a little diary. And every week or every month, I would put a little entry. And as I was walking into your office today to record, I looked back on my diary. And it was August 2019. I'm starting this Instagram. I have 50 followers. September 2019, I have 100 followers. December, I have 500 followers. And it's just like, it's so slow. But I kept coming back to how do I make shareable, useful content? because I believed that was what was most important. I didn't think about products. I didn't think about ROIs. I didn't think about margins. I didn't think about raising money. I didn't think about anything. I was just obsessed with the content. And after six months, I had gone to 10,000 followers with a lot of daily work. Talk to me about that daily work. What did that actually look like? Because I feel like when you're working a job and people are... For you at that time, it was really a side hustle. So what did the side hustle consist of? How much time were you putting in? I made a pact with myself. I said, I'm going to work on this one hour a day for six months. Okay. No matter the outcome. Cause every day I had a reason to quit. When you have 50 followers and you get home from work and you're like, okay, I'm going to test an apple juice on my glucose monitor and turn it into graph and post it on Instagram and get 12 likes and zero comments. It's rough. It's rough. It's rough. So what gave you the confidence at that point that you were onto something and that you could afford to like bet on yourself? Intuition. I was laser focused on how do I get this to the most possible people, biggest number of people. And after six months, I was at 10,000 followers. So I quit my job with no plan and just kept going. I kept growing the Instagram. How could you afford to do that? I had $40,000 in savings. So you seriously took a bet on yourself. You're not going to take this 40,000. And when I get to the end of that, you'd have had to figure out a way to make money. And six months later, I had no more money and I had no business. And I was like, I'm going to quit. And then the universe once again was like, girl, we're on a mission here. You know what happened? The person who is now my literary agent saw my Instagram and told me, I think you should write a book. And she signed me for a book. I was like, I'm going to write this book. So I locked myself in my apartment for two years. and I wrote the book and that's when everything started. That book was really the break and that book allowed me to keep going. And then the money from that book, I reinvested and started hiring one person to help me and then another person and I bootstrapped everything. And today I have an eight figure business. I mean, it's pretty incredible. Tell me a little bit about your family. I feel like I read somewhere that your mother like outlawed soda in your house because there was some kind of diet Coke addiction. Did you grow up with like an understanding of nutrition, food, what it does to you? Like, you know, it's just so interesting to me that this has become so much your lane and you're so like focused. There's such a singularity to what you do. I mean, you're the glucose goddess. Like this is all the work kind of comes back to this theme and idea. But was that in your childhood somewhere? So childhood, no. My mom had forbidden us from having Coca-Cola at home because she was addicted. She had a serious addiction to Diet Coke. Not really? Yeah. I mean, yes, she had like three or four a day every single day of her life. But I grew up eating Nutella crepes and lots of sugar at home. So that wasn't a thing. But when I was a teenager, my mom remarried to my stepdad. And my stepdad's brother was a doctor called David. And he had written a book about how you use nutrition to help in cancer remission. And so from him, I learned a lot. I learned about sugar. I learned about blood glucose levels and what that meant. I learned about omega-3s, about fish, about meat, about what are carbs. And so he really shaped my early understanding. But at that point, I was 14. I didn't think I would do anything with glucose. I just was sort of remotely interested and my family got a bit healthier. But the passion didn't come from there. The passion really came from the glucose monitor experience when I was in my early 20s. And so for you to go into mathematics and then have this degree in biochemistry, you were obviously naturally very academic and very gifted as a student and you wanted to do well. I'm so interested that you just decided to go in those directions because they're traditionally such male dominated fields. And I'm interested like what you would say to young women now that are exploring that type of career for themselves. Listen, I believe there's nothing better than being a female in a scientific or male dominated field. It's so cool to be one of the only women in that class where you're learning about, you know, algebra. And it's a lot of men. And then there's the three girls sitting together. And you just feel like you have to find your power and you're the underdog. And it's very exciting and very, very interesting and very motivating. And the reason I went into mathematics, I didn't like math. I just didn't know what to do with my life. And so my stepdad, again, gave me a very good piece of advice. He said, if you don't know what to do, do the hardest thing you can. That's gold. Especially for studies. I think this is very applicable because... Because it's almost counterintuitive thinking, because I feel like if I hadn't had a clue of what I wanted to do, I'd have leaned into the thing that I was really good at and that would have been easiest for me. Exactly. But the problem is if I had done a degree in, I don't know, history, you know, age 19, discovering a passion for health after breaking my back, I could have never gone into biochemistry. So that math degree kept all of my doors open. And having done that math degree gave me quite a lot of power later on in my career. Because when you're a young woman and you look like I do, and you're like, and you say you have a degree in mathematics, all of a sudden, people change how they perceive you. Because I've often been underestimated in my life. Often, often, because I'm friendly, I come off as nice and non-threatening, whatever. And so I've been underestimated. Even today, a lot of people think I'm just an influencer. They don't realize what I've built. Which is wild and so insulting given how... But you can't control that. No, you can't. I mean, listen, this is other part of you. I swear that I found you through looking at outfits of yours because you're always like, she's in a whole mew mew get up, you've got an amazing shoe. And maybe I was just like looking at the outfit and then kind of tuned in and started listening and saw a graph that drew me in. Well, that's exactly what I wanted to accomplish, Emma. Jump down, babe. That's exactly. The reason I wear all these looks is because I believe that what you wear tells a story and draws people in and makes you less threatening. so I want the outfits and the universe to be fun and colorful and friendly so you come in and then I talk to you about blood sugar levels something really unsexy and kind of boring but here you are because I was wearing a fun outfit and now you're watching my video and I can teach you how to feel better yeah I mean that 100% worked for me amazing definitely worked to me but I feel like it's really interesting because you've spoken about this publicly that you are a biochemist and you're not an influencer why is that so important to you to be so forthright about that because it's the truth. I don't influence by sharing my personal life. I am not influencing. I'm sharing science. That's what I'm here for. For me, influencer is more personal. I think when I'm a biochemist, I'm a teacher. It's not about me. It's about the content. I'm teaching. I'm offering interesting helpful information I not influencing by sharing my personal life It very different to me It very different I agree with you It education Yeah Every time I watch you I feel like I learned something And this through line of everything that you done in your career is you know your books are so unbelievably brilliant because they break down these really complicated subjects in ways that are not just teachable, but it's like you can take that stuff into your life. And I wonder when you did that first book, like, what was your aim right then? What were you trying to do? I think I have a lot of empathy for people going through difficulty with their health. And I really feel like I can connect and I understand what people need and how to meet them where they are. So what I was trying to do is I was trying to make a book that was going to become a solution for people, a guide. I understand who this person is that I'm talking to, that I'm writing for. I really deeply do. I think maybe because I struggled so much and I know what it feels like when you were just, just feels like everything is so dark. It's so dark. You're lost. You don't know where to go. And those are the people that I make my content for. And when I was writing my book, I was trying to make it both informative, but also full of heart and love. And I put a lot of stories in there, my personal anecdotes. And I, I try to, you know, not use mechanics such as guilt or fear mongering. And I just, I wanted to make something that felt really cozy and helpful, like a warm blanket, helping you get from zero to one with your health. So talk to me about that first moment when you started to feel like what I'm doing is working. You've got the book deal, you write this book, it actually does become a bestseller. And as somebody that has, you know, the kind of education that you do, you've then got this platform that's starting to become a thing and you're getting noticed. You've got the book that's starting to blow up. Did you have a plan at that point? Is this the point that you went, all right, I'm going to start to build something? No plan. Intuition only. I just felt like, okay, it's too much for me to do all the research I'm doing, plus all the posts, plus try to manage the interviews coming in. So I just needed to hire one person. And I was like, okay, I have this much money in my bank account. And when I signed my books, I didn't take the money personally. I thought I'm going to form an LLC because let's see what happens. So the book advances went to the LLC. I hired one person. It was just one step after another. And people kept trying to give me advice, you know, investors and people with big companies do this, do that. Do you really want to be a CEO? It's not a good idea. Or this is not a business, blah, blah. I just quieted everything and did what my heart and my intuition told me to do. What did you have to learn about money that science didn't prepare you for? That money is energy. When I got the book advance, I was getting stored energy and it was my responsibility to decide how I was going to spend that energy. And I wanted to keep going further because even though I didn't have a plan for a business, I wanted this message to become so well known that everybody knew about the glucose hacks. The money was energy and I was trying to really, really use it as sporadically and smartly as possible. Again, it's a very different situation. If you raise money, you can go faster, bigger. I had to make every decision very carefully. And we're talking, I was dealing with like tens of thousands of dollars, not millions of dollars. So every decision, every person. I learned everything just by doing it and by trying and by failing every single day. And even today, when I launched my first product, anti-spike my supplement that was really intuition. I felt like people wanted something that was going to help them with their glucose spikes, but I didn't have a business plan. So I just looked at the best science and I put the best molecules together and I made a really expensive product with really bad margins, but really bad margins. And everybody in the supplement industry was like, wait, what did you do? I was like, oh yeah, I put a raducose and ariamine in the same product. They're like, that's way too expensive. Why would you do that? I said, well, because it's the best. They're like, yeah, but it's not a good business. I don't care. I don't care. I'm making the best product. So I just went for it. Is there a belief system there? Because I always believe like you make a great product, the customer is going to come, like you can figure the things out afterwards. Yes, I believe that as well. Yeah. I believe that. I'm not cynical. I think that people want the best products and no shortcuts will ever pay off. So if I had taken shortcuts, Maybe the business would be bigger today, but I'm proud of every single thing that I've made. And I followed my intuition for ultra high quality decisions at every turn. Ultra high quality. You know how rent is one of those things that most people pay every month and don't really think twice about. It's just part of life. But built is built around the idea that if you're paying rent anyway, you should actually get something back from it. Built is a loyalty program for renters that rewards rent payments with points you can redeem towards things like flights, hotels, lift rides, Amazon.com purchases, fitness classes, and so much more. Built members can earn points on mortgage payments for the first time. So whether you're renting now or thinking ahead to what's next, you can be rewarded wherever you live. Built also unlocks exclusive benefits with more than 45,000 neighborhood partners, from restaurants to fitness studios to everyday essentials. It's designed to fit into real life, not change it, and to make a monthly expense feel a little more intentional. If rent is part of your reality, Built gives you a smarter way to engage with it. Join the loyalty program for renters at joinbuilt.com. slash Emma. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash Emma. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. The Start With Yourself tour kicks off on April 15th in New York City. Tickets are on sale now at emmagree.com. That's a really great way to frame everything that you do because it it comes across, right? It comes across in like the content, the captions, the way that you write the books, the way that you put yourself together, the way that you've framed this new product. It's like, I'm going to make an ultra high quality decision at every turn and that's going to pay dividends. I'm obsessive. I want to make perfect stuff because I believe in them. It's so interesting because I feel like great founders are always a little bit obsessive. They're as obsessed with the product as they are, with the packaging as they are, with the overall output and the messaging. And you have to. I think you have to. Every day as a founder is a punch in the gut. So if you're going to keep going, you have to be obsessed. You have to keep getting back up. But it's not centered. The text is not centered. That's how I feel most days. But you have to. And I think that's driven me. And I had opportunities to quit every turn. But this sort of spiritual thing, I kept coming back to it. I felt like I was on a mission. Talk to me about those opportunities to quit, because I think that what we see is this like ascent, right, that you've kind of gone on a tear and you've had this like tremendous acceleration in this part of your life and career. What has been some of the setbacks? What are the things that behind the scenes we wouldn't have seen or heard about? Well, because I don't have a structure, I didn't have a structure in place of a big company and investors in a roadmap and quarterly results. My business was just being fueled by my energy and my motivation. So the weeks where I didn't feel very motivated because everybody on the internet was trying to take me down, I felt like the business was slowing down. So I've always had this push and pull every single day, every single week. I don't have a big support system in terms of the company. It's just me driving it with my passion. So the opportunity to quit, I mean, man, just being on social media, you want to quit every single day. It's rough. How have you learned to deal with the trolls, the haters, the nonstop opinions, writing your shit, writing your comment feed? At the beginning, I was taking a lot of good criticism and feedback because I didn't really understand what I was doing. I needed feedback from my users. Again, people were like, I hate it when you say this. Don't say this. If you're talking about somebody who's diabetic, don't say she's diabetic. Say she has diabetes. I had to learn all these things that I didn't know. I didn't know a lot of stuff. Or type one diabetics, people with type of diabetes saying, oh, wearing this glucose monitor is offensive. Don't do that. This is our glucose monitor. It's not cool. We don't feel good about it. I had to learn a lot. And the criticism taught me a lot, but today I've heard it all. So it doesn't really touch me anymore. Is there any part of you that shied away from some, because I feel like you've been out there and you've openly criticized oatmeal, granola, drugs like Ozempic as an example. Have you ever been nervous when it comes to like challenging at least big food companies and big pharma? Yeah, for sure. I mean, those are huge mammoths. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. With a lot of money, with way more money than I will ever have. And big teams of lawyers. Yeah. But this is what I have to do. Like if I didn't want to make anybody upset or ruffle any feathers, I would not be able to do what I do. My entire job is telling you they're manipulating you with the marketing. This food is not as healthy as you think. This drug is not solving the issue. It's masking the symptom. I have to go up against it. So yeah, of course it's a little bit scary, but you got to go. It's war, baby. It's war. Yeah. But I love that that's your attitude because I speak to so many female founders and it can be very intimidating when you cross a line, knowing it or not. And there's, you know, a legal letter that lands on your door or something that kind of threatens you. How have you dealt with those things? Because I know they've kind of hit you. I cry. Get a good cry in, you know. I love a good cry. I love a good cry. I'll cry sometimes when I'm not sad, just for fun. Yeah, just to cry. Not in the camera or anything. I hate that shit. But it's like, I love a cry. So healthy. And then I have to find my center again and remember what I'm doing and remember the mission and what I'm here for, because those things can knock me off for us so hard. And then you're like, wait, why am I doing this? Like, is everything I'm doing wrong? And I just have to keep coming back to myself. And over the years, the muscle has grown stronger. So now I can come back much faster. I don't have a secret magic solution for this. It's tough. Yeah, but isn't that just the point that I think so many people want to understand? How do you get more resilient? Well, you get more resilient. You have to do it. You have to do it. Okay, story time. First time I gave a public speech was at 23andMe. I was an intern. I had just joined. Two months into the internship, I have to present in front of four people. Four people. I prepare my presentation and I get into the room and I turn the slide on and there's four colleagues of mine from my team. And I just totally black out. I cannot get a word out. I'm like, um, um, um, um, and my other colleague had to take over my presentation. I just collapsed panic attack totally in front of four people. Today you can put me in front of a hundred thousand people. I'm not scared. Why? Because I kept going back to that horrible thing. It's like pushups, Emma. Oh yeah. The only way to get better at pushups is to do the pushups. Same thing. I wanted to get better. It was so hard, but I think about maybe four years in, then I wasn't scared anymore, but it took four years of a lot of public speaking and learning the presentation by heart, every sentence. This is where my academic brain worked and was helpful. I learned my presentations word for word and one hour presentation, word for word, the whole thing memorized everything. because I was so terrified of going in front of these people and talking about glucose. I learned everything, every single word. And I rehearsed it in my flat. That is so unbelievably impressive. And I would film myself everything because that was the only way to get through the anxiety and the nerves. And today I don't have to do that anymore. And you don't have any anxiety or nerves anymore? Nothing. I love it now. I love it. I'm like, give me a big audience. I got this. Give me that audience. And, you know, I get on stage and I'm like, hey, guys, hey, how's it going? She's like, pay off, pay off. Exactly. But at the beginning, I was faking it. I'm a sweater. So I will, I don't ever look like I'm sweating. I mean, I'm always shiny, but it's like, I will sweat through that entire clothing outfit. And everyone come off the stage and people are like, you, that was great. And I'm like, oh my God, like get me a towel. Like I'm just like, but are you scared? No, not at all. You just sweat. No, I just, that's just what, that's my reaction. I just like sweat out. But it's like, again, I could go in front of a huge audience, but it certainly wasn't always like that. I just practiced and practiced and practiced. And unlike you, sadly, I don't have that academic brain, but I'm really good at freestyling it. So I would just have like the one lines of like each paragraph and I go there and then I can just like figure the rest out. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I only need the headlines. I'm like a headline. I have the bullets and I can do the 20 bullets and then I'll just like fill in the gap. Well, I wish I could do that. That would have saved me a lot of violence. No, your way is better because, you know, every now and again, you'd be like, off with the vads. But it's violent. It's a violent process to get better at stuff. First of all, I love the way you frame things. It's violent. It's violent. It's violent against yourself. Yes. Like you have to go against everything that's natural to you. You have to face the fear and you have to sweat your way through it in my case. But it is, it's violent. You have to kind of enjoy the process a little bit. Yes. And I feel like, I mean, I've spoken about this so much, but it's like I look for the fear now because I know once I get on the other side of the things that really scare me, there's such good stuff there and it's really, really hard. But then when you're on the other side, you're like, I did it. I just took me three years, but I did it. I want to talk about hacks, But there's these hacks, like there's such a huge buzzword and you have these glucose hacks that you've kind of got and you've owned. I want to really understand, like, why was it important for you to frame them that way? Because I think I'm very good at marketing. Yeah, because it's really central to your work, right? And marketing is not a dirty word here. Marketing is how do you turn something into something people want and people understand. So I had all this science. I had these hundreds of scientific papers and I felt like, how do I make this into something that people are going to understand and are going to connect with? So it was the hacks, but they didn't just drop out of thin air. It was actually when I was writing my first book that I thought about this concept of turning all this data I had amassed into these hacks. And I thought 10 is a great number. So I put together 10 hacks and it just worked out. It was amazing. I have a brain that understands how people change their behavior and how I can get through and cut through the noise and give them tools they can actually use and remember. So the hacks are the core of my work. And throughout all of my career, it's always been about hacks. Easy stuff you can remember because I'm obsessed with behavior change. And it really shows. I love it. It really shows. I love it. What do you think are the top hacks that work for you in your life right now? Having a savory breakfast. Never having anything sweet first thing. in the morning. Oh, they don't like that in America. No. This is the most difficult hack I'm at. This is the hardest hack with the biggest payoff. It's the hardest hack with the biggest payoff. Yes. So when we talk sweet, all right, let's just like talk about sweet a little bit. Because fruit is sweet. Fruit is okay. Is that a no-to? Fruit is okay. Okay. It's okay as a side dish. Not optimal. It's okay. For taste, for enjoyment, for pleasure. Your savory breakfast needs to be built around protein. You need to start the breakfast with protein. Maybe it's eggs. Maybe it's a Greek yogurt. Maybe it's protein powder. Maybe it's nuts. Maybe it's leftover salmon from last night. Protein. If you want to make me have dinner for breakfast. Yes, Emma. Do you want a sharp brain? Yes. Do you want to feel like eagle focused energy all day? Absolutely. Then you got to have a savory breakfast, girl. And then if you want something sweet, have it at the end of the breakfast. Okay. Just try it because the payoff for your mental clarity is so humongous. It's like walking through a mirror and going to another world. It is literally a different world, sweet breakfast or savory breakfast. Why? Because the sweet breakfast creates a big glucose spike in your body that leads to inflammation that can lead to brain fog. And it kickstarts a roller coaster of crashes all day and you spike. And two hours later, you crash as your blood sugar comes down and you're tired and you want more sugar and you're exhausted and the brain fog and the fatigue. And then you go back up with more sweets and back down. I think single-handedly having a savory breakfast has helped me with my career more than any advice I ever got. Wow. 100%. All right. What's the second most important thing that we need to know? The second one, oh, that's tough because they're all competing. Okay. I would say having a veggie starter before dinner. So typically people have dinner and dinner is going to be the biggest meal of the day. That's the meal where you're coming home and you have more time and you're eating a lot. Now, the problem is if you have a big spike at dinner, your deep sleep during the night is going to be messed up. So you're going to wake up and feel less rested. So how do you counteract this? You start your dinner with a veggie starter, meaning a plate of vegetables. It can be anything. Broccoli, it can be salad, it can be tomatoes, carrots, whatever your favorite vegetable is. You can have it raw, cooked, boiled, baked, anything you like, grilled. The vegetables contain fiber. And if you have fiber at the beginning of your dinner, it's going to create this protective mesh in your intestine. Fibers are a superwoman. We love her. At the beginning of your meal, it creates this mesh. whatever you eat afterwards will go more slowly into your digestive system and into your bloodstream. So it's not that you're trying to trick me into eating less of whatever the rest is on my plate. No. It's about this seal. I want you to eat more. I want you to eat more with the protective fiber in place. Oh, Lord. All right. So I'm going to have a savory breakfast. I'm then going to eat veggies before my dinner. What's the other thing? Because I want like the boss girl diet. You know, I want the one that's going to give me maximum energy. That's not going to let me crash. That's going to keep my brain like on fire. You know, it's like, that's the diet that I want. Then in that case, you're going to be snacking throughout the day probably. Oh, good. I do. Yeah. But I'm a really good snacker. Okay. So here's my thing. I love nuts. Yes. Perfect. Okay. So up there. It's perfect. I'm an almond girl. Perfect. 10 out of 10. Thank you very much. Perfect. The perfect snack. And I do bone broth. Yeah. Very good. I don't really have a sweet tooth, except I do like a very, very good chocolate. But for that to happen on a weekday, I have to be extremely pissed off. I'm very regimented with my diet. And I just don't really leave much choice there because my way of controlling things is to not have choices. I just eat what I'm given. And it works for you. And you're a boss girl. Well, you know, we try to be. But I'm like, you know, I like a sandwich as much as the next person. And so if I'm given the choice, I'm going to say I want a sandwich. If somebody just is like, this is what your lunch is today. And it just is in front of me. It's like I'm going to eat the protein and veggies. I think one tip that I would give is that throughout the day you might be tempted for sugar for chocolate for a donut for those little dried mango stuff we had on the table before Then I was like no no no Anything sweet throughout the day it can sort of help you go through work because you feel like it gives you a little energy boost to eat something sweet Actually the sweetness is giving you dopamine, which is the pleasure molecule in your brain, but it's not giving you energy because it's probably creating a spike, which then leads to a crash. So what do you do? You do what's called put clothing on your carbs. So anytime you eat carbs, Example donut, example chocolate. You put some clothing on that. So almonds are an excellent piece of clothing to put on your carbs because they contain protein and fat. And so as they mix with the sugar in your stomach, they're going to slow down the glucose spike of the sugar. So you can still have the donut, the chocolate you like. If you add some clothing to it, it's going to affect your brain, your energy, your performance and your cravings less. So this is what I love about your advice, because I feel like it is realistic. I'm not never going to have a donut. A donut is delicious, but there's a way to have a donut. It's all about the way to have the stuff that you love with less impact on your body. And there's so much we can do. A donut first thing in the morning for breakfast is 100% different from the donut you have after your dinner where you had a veggie starter. Completely different impact on your body. So you're happy for me to have the donut later? Yes. That feels so counterintuitive. I know. That feels like a donut at night. It's just going to like sit there and, you know, not do the right thing for me. If you have a veggie starter before that dinner, you're going to have a smaller glucose spike from the donuts. If you have the donut for breakfast on an empty stomach first thing, you're kicking off an entire day of glucose roller coaster. And then you feel like crap. And so you can't do the stuff that you want to do because you feel horrible in your own body. So what do you do if you don't want to walk around with a glucose monitor? Because I look at those people with the glucose monitor. Those people with the glucose monitor? That's what I think. I'm like, oh, I'm not dating you. I'm out of the dating game, thankfully. But you know, like to me, I'm like, oh, like really? Are we doing that? I think we are. I'll wait. At least for two weeks. She's like, yes, I think you are. Do it for two weeks. Once. Why? Because you're like, do it for two weeks and learn about yourself. Exactly. Okay. You don't have to wear it all the time. Okay. Just do it once. Learn about yourself. See if your glucose levels are steady. See what spikes you, what doesn't. And then you're good. If you don't want to wear one at all, into it, into your own body. When do you feel tired? When do you have cravings? These are the two main signs you're having a glucose crash after a big spike, okay? It's the fatigue and the cravings. Keep a little diary or just feel into it. And I promise you, if you switch from a sweet breakfast to a savory breakfast, those things will be much, much, much better instantly. Yeah. I mean, listen, I really have become obsessed with my health over the last few years. There's something about moving to LA that'll do that to an English girl. But I also think about my health as an investment. when you have four kids and you have businesses, like there is no choice for me. And the reason that I started to follow you and I started to become so interested in this is because I know the difference. Like I feel it so intrinsically in my skin and the energy levels, but I feel like we're all looking for a clear out of the information. And I think what I love about what you do is that it's really understandable and it's really science-based, but there's no clutter there because there's so much information out there. And what I want are like, as you say, it's like the 10 things that I need to do and the things that are realistic. And they work for everybody and they're not a diet. I see the hacks as like little fairy godmothers that you have in your pocket that you use whenever you can, whenever you want. You can't fail at the glucose hacks. It's about using them as much as possible whenever they call you, whenever they're easy to do. And even if just one time this week, you think about, okay, I'm going to put clothing on those cards. Even just one time, that's better than doing it zero times. Yeah. You can't fail. You see what I mean? You can't fail. These are just principles like brush your teeth and wear sunscreen. If you don't brush your teeth one night, you're not going to wake up the next morning and be like, oh damn, I forgot to brush my teeth. I can never brush my teeth again. I failed at brushing my teeth. No, but just brush your teeth that day. Same thing with the hacks. Spring always feels like a reset. The calendar fills up. Travel starts popping up and suddenly you want your wardrobe to match the energy of everything you're stepping into. If you're heading into a busy season and don't have the time to rethink your closet, I've got a great recommendation for you. Daily Look is the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women. What sets it apart is that you're paired with a real dedicated personal stylist, not an algorithm who creates a box of clothes based on your body shape, your preferences and lifestyle, and it's delivered straight to your door. You work with the same stylist every time. So the experience feels thoughtful and consistent. 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I discovered more resilience because my brain felt weak. I was struggling with mental health, with mood swings. I felt fragile. I felt fragile in my body and in my brain. And so I wasn't taking many risks. I wasn't doing things that scared me because I just didn't have the resources because I was concerned that I was going to feel anxious or depressed or I had this very intense mental health condition called depersonalization, which is when you feel like a stranger in your own body. It's horrible. And I was able to... What did that stem from? My back accident, I think. It started developing about six months after the accident. And when I look back, I think it was probably some sort of PTSD from being scared of dying and not having the tools to process the fear. And so I would feel like a stranger in my own body. It was horrible. It was just so scary. And so my brain was broken and the glucose spikes were making it worse. And it took me almost a decade to figure it out. And so when I studied my blood sugar, then I got a bit of resilience back and I could start building my health back up. It was not all about glucose. Glucose was the first step. It gave me a little bit of strength that I needed to then go after the stuff I wanted to do. So what I tell people is if you could feel better than you currently do, then try the glucose hacks. Because most of us have glucose spikes and we don't know it. And the symptoms we feel on a daily basis, like maybe it's acne, maybe it's PCOS, maybe it's fatigue, maybe it's feeling addicted to sugar. These are all messages from your body. Symptoms are not something to suppress. Symptoms are something to look into. There are messages your body's speaking to you. And often your body's like, can you please start with keeping your blood sugar levels steady? Because this is not helping. I've heard you speak a lot about the links between fertility and glucose and your glucose levels. I'm assuming because it's you, there's a lot of science behind that. Yeah, absolutely. So one of the most common reasons for infertility today in females is polycystic ovary syndrome, PCOS. And in many cases, PCOS is actually a symptom of having high glucose levels in your body. Why? Is it really? Yeah. Because high glucose increases this hormone called insulin in the body. And insulin is there just trying to manage glucose levels and get those glucose levels back down. But they also impact female hormones and they increase testosterone in a female body. And so PCOS is often a consequence of having too much testosterone because of too much insulin, because of too many glucose spikes. So that's why so many women who use my glucose hacks, all of a sudden their insulin comes down, their testosterone comes back to normal and they ovulate again. That's insane. Yeah. That's so crazy. I had no idea. I mean, is that like a widely known thing? I think it's getting more widely known. And scientists believe that about 70% of PCOS cases are due to this glucose, insulin, testosterone. It's like an amalgamation of symptoms, right? It's like it's not a thing, like a disease. It's like a lot of different things that play out. Yes. And we diagnose it as such. And in 70% of the cases, PCOS also is happening with high insulin levels and is due to that. So PCOS is, as you said, it's an umbrella term for symptoms that all stem from a hormonal imbalance. Yes. And again, in 70% of cases, that hormonal imbalance is linked to high insulin. So you got to get the insulin down so the hormones get back into their normal ranges. And to get the insulin levels down, you get the glucose down. So you got to understand the few steps. So it's not super easy because sometimes you might know about the insulin. And so you might take a medication to get insulin down, but you're not fixing the root cause. Or for example, you might go on the birth control pill to manage PCOS, but the pill is not fixing the issue. It's sort of masking the symptoms for a little while. and then you get off the pill and you want to have a baby, but you're not ovulating anymore. And so you realize, oh, that pill didn't fix anything. No, so you've actually got to go down and fix this root cause. And listen, this is not always the case that fixing glucose fixes PCOS, but in many, many cases, in the majority of cases, it does. That is crazy. I mean, you've just had your own little baby. Yeah. Eight months old, a little boy. Yeah. So sweet. I think for so many of us, having a baby is a time in our life where everything changes, your eating habits, the time that you have, you know, how much you focus on yourself. What was the experience like for you and what kind of came out of it in terms of, you know, you having like this new health experience and life on the other side of having a baby? I can't believe I had a baby. I'm like, what? What just happened? You know, I'm like, I made this. I still feel like that 12 years after the first one. I'm like, are you guys mine? I mean I think I'm still in process with it it's hard to say I found that eight months in is basically a newborn basically when my kid was five I was saying I just had a baby like it's yeah eight months it's like a newborn child yes I found it to be much harder than I thought it was going to be I thought writing a book was hard but this just changed everything and it's just so much love and so much focus. And now my heart lives outside my body in him. That's how it feels. And I've also had to manage my company and finish writing my book, Postpartum, which was hardcore. I don't know. It's focused me a lot. It's focused me. I've had so much time before. I didn't realize how much time I had. I was like, what was I doing from like 6 p.m. to 11 p.m. every night? Like, what? I was just chilling. What are you talking about? level. Like, what are you talking about? So it's made me much more focused and it's made me happier also. And I always had before, I think this sort of 10% of my emotional state at all times, which was a kind of 10% of maybe longing or a little bit sad. And I'm French, you know, melancholic, like, oh, should I do something different? Like, is my life not great? Blah, blah, blah. And that's just gone. Yeah. Searching, searching. And I feel like that's gone. I don't have that sort of mild chronic depression anymore because I have purpose you know and it's not it's not the same thing as purpose with a company because the purpose of the company comes and goes every day and again it's hard with him it's just it's so clear it's clarified everything it's made everything much harder but everything's so much clearer yeah and also I feel like there's something to be said of like you know you have a mission and a purpose for your company but now there's like a reason to be doing all of that stuff. It like somehow completely crystallizes everything, crystallizes everything. How has it changed for you? Cause obviously you are running a company with a lot of different pieces and verticals to it. How have you been able to, you know, come into mothering and still be this entrepreneurial? What does that look like for you? I just do it. I don't know. I don't have a magic solution. It's just hard. I just work more, longer hours. I'm more efficient. I delegate more. I do more on my phone. I'm better at multitasking. And I thought motherhood might make me a bit softer in terms of my business. I thought maybe it's going to slow me down and it hasn't. It's made me more hungry. I don't know why. I can't explain it. I just realized I don't have much time and I want to do a lot of stuff And I have a lot of people to serve. So I just got to be better, more laser focused. I make decisions faster. I'm rearranging my team much quicker than I would have in the past. You know, I don't let things linger for more than a couple of days. I'm like, I got to change this. I don't have time. I don't have time. Yeah. So I think it feels so much more finite when you have kids, right? Yes. You're like, these 45 minutes better be used wisely. These 12 minutes before he wakes up from the nap, you betcha I'm going to do this. Yeah. And I think I'm more efficient today. And I think I'm actually delivering more today than I did before I was a mom. Isn't that incredible? It's incredible. It's absolutely incredible. Do you feel the same? A million percent. I always talk about this moment. The first child I had, I remember sitting in the hospital bed and feeling this surge of like, I've got to get back to the office. You know, it's like I've got to get back to work because somehow there was a reason for doing all the things that was beyond it just being about me. And I also think it's such an incredible example for your kid to see you so, as they get older, so passionate about something and to care so much about something. I mean, that's like, for me, all it boils down to. I don't really like what my kids do, you know, and what they become. I don't care, but I want them to care about something as much as I care about what I do. And that's all that I can hope for them. I love that. Which is the best thing in the world. And they're seeing it. I mean, they're watching you. So talk to me about the products that you've just launched, because I feel like the product kind of came out of like one of your big, probably most famous hacks, right? Absolutely. So one of the most famous hacks was have vinegar before eating something sweet. Because vinegar contains an incredible molecule called acetic acid. We love her, which slows down digestion just a little bit. And as a result, when you eat carbs, they arrive more slowly into your bloodstream. They turn to glucose more slowly. but people kept telling me vinegar is disgusting i had like i need to drink vinegar and water what are you talking about it's gross i was like oh no it's okay you'll get used to it and people kept saying can i take like a supplement instead and there was nothing that really was a good alternative like a vinegar supplement was not delivering the same molecules as the vinegar itself not the same quantity and quality so i got into research i looked for two years through all the scientific studies and I found these incredible molecules, plant molecules that I had never heard about before, mulberry leaf being the main one, and then a molecule that comes from lemons. And I called up the suppliers and I was like, you have incredible clinical trials showing that these molecules reduce buccal spikes because they interact with the enzymes in your belly. And I was like, I want to put them in a product and give it to people and call it anti-spike. And so I just did it. I knew nothing about the supplement world. I didn't partner with a company. I want to be very clear here. I built the whole thing myself. All internally. Manufacturing, logistics, sourcing, everything. Wow, you are a crazy lady. I love you. Because I'm sure you'd had offers on offers on offers. Like, put your name on this product. We're developing something. You can take some equity. I got an offer. You decide to do it from scratch. I got an offer six months before I launched Anti-Spike. I got an offer for $300,000 to put my name on a supplement and just sell it as my own. and I didn't take that. Didn't fancy that? No. I felt like if I did that, that would be the last thing I ever did because it would just collapse everything. I would not believe in what I was doing anymore. I would just sell out and I never wanted to do that. So I built it all internally and then I told my team, oh, and by the way, we're going to launch in the US, Canada, all of Europe at the same time. Did you go out and raise money? Nope. All bootstrapped. So I took all the money we had in the bank to buy the inventory for Anti-Spike and I took a bet. I had no market research. I had no idea how much people were willing to pay for it. It was all intuition. I just did. I was like, it's going to cost $59. Like, literally, that's what I did. No, you did not. I promise. And I had no understanding of how this supplement world worked at all. I was like, okay, well, you know, the raw materials are very expensive. But if I sell it at $59, like, I can make this much money on each bottle. That makes sense. And I'm going to launch it in the world because my entire community is all across the world. And so it was me and my little mighty team of four people, and we just took it on. really yeah how is it doing it's doing great it's doing great that's crazy because it's the best product on the market for glucose let's talk about this a bit because i love this idea that like you've got this fantastic business because there's also like a cost of entry right because you have a reputation you sell a lot of books so it's not like you're just coming at this and being like oh let me just like figure it out because it might not touch anything else this is core to the principles are things that you talk about. I buy something from you. It needs to work. It needs to also not impede on the rest of the businesses. So you must have felt so much conviction, but like taking all your money and going, okay, I'm just going to go. That's like, that's crazy. I know. And I listened, I just did it. I just felt like it was the right thing to do. And I should have probably did the right thing to do. Like when you look at it, When did you launch? We launched two and a half years ago. Two and a half years ago. And we had all these problems because the production was delayed. And so I was doing pre-orders. And I told people it's ready in a month. Actually, it was ready in four months. And it was just so stressful. It was just awful, awful, awful. And now, so in terms of my business, so the books are a big source of revenue. The supplement as well. I also do speaking but not so much It not core I not like a speaker I do this like three four times a year and I launching another product I launching what I believe to be the best protein powder in the entire universe And how are you thinking about ownership of these things, Jesse? What does this look like for you? What do you mean? Like, do you own it? Do I own one? Like the brand and the like glucose goddess is yours. The product is yours. Or do you take investment and you take partners? I have no investments, no partners. I've bootstrapped everything from that first $60,000 advance in the first book never took an investor yeah that's so wonderful thank you do you see a time and this is very dependent on your vision do you see a time where you're like there's a time for investment and it just isn't now or what's the plan probably probably if i do something with more capex i don't know like you know i could open maybe a restaurant chain or something like that and i would not just have enough cash to do it myself so in that case maybe but i love my freedom. And you know, at the beginning, I was telling you, people were like, raise money, a million dollars and do a tech company. And every time I went to VC to be like, I have this idea for glucose spikes. I have no idea what I'm building, but do you want to invest? They were like, yeah, we'll take 20%. And I just felt in my body, the constriction, you're going to own 20% of this, but it's mine. I don't want to give it away because it's not just a business. It's my life. It's my purpose. So I'm so glad that I was able to stay free. I wanted that freedom. And today, we don't even have offices. We're all remote. I don't have meetings. I hate meetings. We have one weekly meeting. That's it. And then I just call people and I'm on WhatsApp all day. I do not want meetings. I do not want anybody taking any freedom from me. And that's so important. So that's one of my core values, freedom. So I don't know if I would want investors. Maybe I would if it doesn't feel like I'm giving my freedom away. So maybe the right partner. I think that you have such unbelievable clarity around what you're optimizing for. At the end of the day, if you're optimizing for freedom, then you're building the absolute right structure for you to have the ultimate amount of freedom. But I think one day it'll make sense. Like if I keep going and if I really keep going to my ultimate vision, I think I will need an investment at some point. Well, when your freedom starts to get restricted, right? Yes, exactly. When your business takes over and you're like, I'm feeling so free anymore. Exactly. So I might be close to that point. Yeah, we'll see. And when it comes, it comes. But I think that what's so impressive about you is that you have core principles. You're like, I am optimizing for this thing. This is what's important to me right now. In the beginning, that was about democratizing this message and this information that you had. And now it's about being able to do things on your own term as a mother. Yeah. And that is so clear. It's like this quality, the freedom, being able to, you know, take what it is that you've learned and gift it to the world. And I feel like you're doing all of those things on your own terms. Who is who's helping you? Like where who advises you? Is there anyone that you've been able to lean on? And I've heard you say a couple of times in this conversation, you know, people have tried to give you money or tried to come into your business. Is there anyone that you rely on? Absolutely. It's people I meet throughout my career. It's, you know, I think you're amazing. I hope I can call you one day and be like, Emma, can you give me advice about this? You can call me anytime. It's people that I've met throughout interviews, throughout podcasts, at conferences, and I just call them. They're like, hey, I'm having this problem. Can you help me out? And it's that community. I don't have like a mentor. I have a network of incredibly smart people who sometimes are okay giving me 15 minutes of their time. And that's the biggest gifts I can have. First of all, that's amazing because I feel like we have this obsession right now of finding mentors. I never had a mentor either. And often people will come to me and say, hey, could you be my mentor? And I'm like, just use this 15 minutes that we've got to ask me a question because I don't have time to be your mentor. But we're in front of each other right now. And I think it's fantastic advice that to use whatever you've got in front of you, to use that 10 minutes that you have backstage with someone at a conference or you meet somebody on the street or you're lucky enough to be introduced to somebody. It's like use whatever is at your disposal to get the information that you need and figure it out. Absolutely. Have a crack. You did the first thing. Parts of it worked. Parts of it didn't. As you move into this second venture, you're doing things a little bit differently. It's your own learned and lived experience. Completely, completely. And I was alone at the beginning. I didn't know anybody in the space. I didn't know any other entrepreneurs or, you know, people making content on the Internet. And so I grabbed information and advice wherever I could find it. I just grabbed it. I didn't have the big structure in place of like, this is going to be the business. And I have this board of advisors and these mentors. And now I'm ready to go. No, no, no, no, no. It was the other way around. I have a feeling that when you're ready for it, there'll be a big long queue out the door of people just being like, this shit is the real deal. And we can improve these margins. I'll call you Emma. Just let me know, girl. They don't call me 80% for nothing. Totally, totally. And, you know, I'll feel it maybe one day, but for now it's working and I'm happy. Starting a business gets complicated fast. And that's something I hear all the time from founders. One minute you're focused on the idea. The next you're juggling conversations, follow-ups, and trying to remember where every deal actually stands. Things start living in different inboxes, different notes, different spreadsheets, and suddenly there's no clear picture of what's moving forward. 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It's perfect with yogurt or ice cream or straight from the bag. Visit purelyelizabeth.com and use code ASPIRE at checkout for 20% off and to taste the obsession yourself. when you think of like the great voices in your space in health in wellness in science like who do you want to be mentioned alongside like who who's the who are the heroes and the people that you think about oh that's such a beautiful question you know who are the real heroes the people who do the scientific studies that nobody the ones we don't know their names in my latest book, in my acknowledgments, the first sentence is thank you to all the researchers who've done these studies because they're the real reason this work exists. I'm just a translator of their amazing work. I'm not in the lab doing the studies. They are hundreds, thousands of researchers and scientists across the world. They're the real heroes. I'm just here making it useful for people and translating the complicated scientific jargon into something that we can actually use. But without them, I'm nothing. Without them, any scientific creator online is nothing. So shout out to all the people in the labs doing the work, right? Because they're the ones that are finding the answers. No, and I love that you say that because these are the unsung heroes. And when we think about what's happening, you know, I'm not going to go off on a political tangent here. When you think about what's happening to research budgets and in the biggest universities in the land, you know, that is the type of work that is under threat. And we don't hear about it or speak about it nearly enough. But as you quite rightly say, nothing that you do and you communicate so beautifully will be possible without that foundational work, without the work of these unsung heroes that are doing, you know, the most important work to bring humanity and, you know, take us forward. And these are a lot, this is long work. Like many of you studies take decades. Totally. It's not seasonal like what I do. No, they're there working on the same thing for 10, 15 years. Oh yeah. It's tough. It's rough. I was, I was working in a lab doing my master's degree in biochemistry. I was like, I just don't have. Don't you love just throwing that into conversation? I was, you know, working in a lab doing my master's degree in biochemistry. I wish I could say that shit. I might just say that one day. Try it on. Try it on. And I realized This is not for me. Like I got to be, I got to be talking to people and making daily content that I can iterate on. I don't have the patience. I don't have that kind of brain. You have a different kind of brain. I have a different kind of brain. An equally brilliant type of brain. You got to know our specialties. Damn right. Yes, we do. I mean, you want, you know, information around glucose and glucose habits to be as common as any other health information. And I feel like you're really doing that. What's the ultimate goal for you? I think for my work on glucose to become obsolete. So I want to be useless. I want glucose goddess to be useless because everybody knows this stuff. That's the goal of that original idea about glucose. And then personal goal, just want to be happy and use my talents and have a bit of fun and feel like I'm being stretched and I'm doing violent things and improving. I want that. But for the glucose idea, you know, I kind of, I'm very spiritual and I kind of like, you need to taste that. We need like doing violent things. Totally. It's a little reminder. It's so good. But I had a sort of a quote unquote conversation with the glucose idea recently because I was asking her like spiritually, like, did I do a good job? Like, do you feel like the work is done? And she was like, yeah, yep. You're pretty much there. So I made all this content. I made the books. I read the books. The hacks are out there. They're spreading because they work. So people tell their friends and their families and they become, no, everybody knows about the veggies first thing, for example, or, well, everybody, way more people than at the beginning or the savory breakfast, the clothes on carbs, et cetera. So I feel like I've done a pretty good job. And so now I think I'm going to use my same talents to evolve Glucose Goddess into another direction. And maybe, maybe she's not going to talk about mental health, which is such a big topic for me. Maybe. That's what comes next after Glucose. I think so, maybe, yeah. Because Glucose Goddess, what does this brand and company do? we make science accessible? And nutrition was the first topic. But now what's the evolution? Where can we go from here? Yeah. And I feel like so much of your work and what you've done has been a springboard from actually things that happened in your life that came from real adversity, right? And your best customer is the person you once were. So I was thinking I would love to do something for very specific audience, people in their early twenties who've had spine surgery. Seriously, because I felt like I love specificity. There's nothing better than a real niche audience. So maybe that's what I'm going to do next with the glucose goddess. I don't know. I'm just saying this. We'll see what happens. What's your like broad aspiration? Like if we were to fast forward 30, 40 years, what would you want to say? What would I want to say? Where would I want to be? Yeah. I want to be still writing books. I love the violent process of writing a book. It's very violent. I still want to do the same thing, I think. and I don't know. How lovely is that? Yeah, I don't know, Emma. I don't have, I'm just following my intuition and where the energy flows. I don't know. I don't know where I'm going to be. I don't know. I'm not locked in. I'm free. So who knows? Maybe I'm going to be like an expert parachutist. I don't know. So I honestly don't know, but I love what I do. I feel so fortunate that I built this beautiful company and this mission. So I just want to keep going and see where it takes me and keep having a relationship with this work because it is a relationship. But I don't know. We shall see. We shall see. We shall see, girl. We'll be watching. Exactly. We'll be watching. I mean, congratulations. I'm so impressed with you. And I think it's so nice when you meet someone that you're like, you know, watching and following and then not fucking disappointed. in. You're so lovely. Okay. Now all we need to do is a few rapid fire things. All right, let's do it. What's something you ate recently with zero guilt? I never feel guilty about food. That's freedom. And I don't think you should because if you're eating it for pleasure, eat it for pleasure. If you're eating it for health, eat it for health. Just be aware of what you're doing. That's about as French an answer as anything could ever get. Let me tell Oh, yeah. I think there's just some countries in Europe that have ways of like answering things. Like France is one of them. Italians have the same. Actually, sweet. Like my husband will say, it'll be whatever it is. What kind of fucking answer is that? Like, don't ever say that to me again. Don't be listening to answer your question. It's very French. Even though I eat everything without guilt, the most recent thing I've eaten entirely for pleasure. So I'm in L.A. right now, obviously, because we're in L.A. But you know Van Leeuwen's, the ice cream place? Oh, yeah. Okay. I love them. I love Van Loon. So I got, so they're out of my favorite one, which is the chocolate fudge brownie. And I'm so pissed off. And I go on Uber Eats every day. I'm like, is the fudge brownie back? And it's still not back. And it's been three weeks. So I got the cookies and cream tub and I ate the whole tub because I had to get a chocolate fix. So that was my most recent pleasure purchase. That's your vice. Chocolate fudge ice cream situation. With chocolate sprinkles on top and like chocolate brownie. Okay. Kagan Dazs, if you're listening. Treble chocolate. Okay. Emma, Haagen-Dazs used to have this flavor called chocolate midnight cookies. That's incredible. And they discontinued it. I loved that flavor. Thank you. Why does that always happen? Thank you. Emma, can we please, listen, business idea. Yeah, let's go. Okay. Reviving discontinued ice cream flavors. Oh, please. And can we also do foundation shades? Because I swear to God, if we could do ice cream and foundation, I'd be really happy that's perfect let's go we'll be the discontinued company I love it just a whole bunch of shit that's been discontinued and we can go out on social and ask people like what was discontinued and what can we bring back Emma it's so business babe girl billions of dollars let's do it let's do it done it'll be called Greedy Glucose oh nice Greedy Goddess Greedy Goddess Greedy Goddess that's the name of the company you heard it here first that was such a good flavor man it was a good flavor If you were stranded on an island, what foods would you hope grew there? Spaghetti. No, actually, an ice cream. Okay, an ice cream, spaghetti. Eggs. Because, let's be serious for a second, eggs are an amazing superfood, Emma. They contain protein, healthy fats, choline for your brain. They're proper. So actually, if I was stranded, I would hope some sort of animal food would grow there, which would mean I could survive. Because if there was only bananas, I would not survive very long because you need protein to survive. So I would hope there was a protein tree somewhere. A protein tree. Yeah. Just a couple of random chickens running around. Describe being a mom in three words. Ooh. Happiness. Hardcore. Diapers. That motherfucker, diapers. what is a book that changed your life seeing is forgetting the name of the thing one sees which is a biography of an artist called Robert Irwin and I didn't understand art before and that book made me understand art very niche amazing book beautiful so this guy was obsessed with making art that didn't need any of the normal props that art uses. So like a frame. And then he was like, how can I make art without a frame? And then he thought a wall, how can I make art without a wall? Light is, can I make presence as art? So he stripped everything away. It was incredible. I'll send you the book. Such a good book. I love it when people come up with a book that I've never even heard of. Yeah. It's a very good book because I read them. I stack them up. You do? Do you actually? But most people come out with like very similar books, but that's a great, great one. And he's so obsessive. He would spend years figuring out what exact type of screw to put in the back of the canvas so that the canvas was so perfectly flat that it almost merged with the wall. Obsessed. So cool. Obsessed. All right. Last question. What is something that you aspire to when you were starting out that you no longer aspire to? I think I aspired to pleasing everybody or making everybody like what I was doing. Because I'm a good girl. I'm a recovered good girl. So at the beginning of the glucose, I was like, I'm going to make something really great. And everybody's going to love it. And we're all going to be a happy family. And today, I don't aspire to that anymore. I aspire to serving the people that are ready for this information. and if you're not ready, it's okay. That's like a mic drop right there. Amazing. So good. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you love with a friend. We'll be so grateful. A Spy with Emma Greed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Executive producer, Ashley McShann, Derek Brown and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja, Lauren Lagrasso. Producer, KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, and Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company and WME, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson-Rose, Tim Meikle, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's Aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me. so before we wrap a quick reminder that start with yourself is available for pre-order and tickets for the live shows are available now starting april 15th we're coming to new york los angeles san francisco chicago dc boston atlanta and london visit emagreed.com for tickets and full tour details i cannot wait